h1-builds-and-combat

[gusty elm]

yeah

so hitting all 60 would result in 60*61/2 = 1830 bonus damage, or an average of 30.5 bonus per hit

to be fair that's a high-level, high-rarity boon we're comparing to

with just a common lv1 call, it would pretty much double the damage

(potentially, of course; in an ideal situation)

[cunning urchin]

Vicious Cycle is great, anyway.

[gusty elm]

for sure

and with the artemis duo, it can help with regular rifts too

[cunning urchin]

You don't need Hunting Blades, either. Engulfing Vortex is enough.

[gusty elm]

oh yeah, fair

i'm still searching for that perfect run with all 4 blade rift upgrade boons

Black Metal, Engulfing Vortex, Vicious Cycle, Hunting Blades

[cunning urchin]

Engulfing Vortex is really underrated imo. Everyone seems to forget about it and only look at Hunting Blades.

[gusty elm]

i wonder if forced overtime changes the dynamic there too

[cunning urchin]

I only play with FO2 FWIW.

[gusty elm]

exactly

might make hunting blades noticeable less powerful (since it could take longer to chase down moving enemies), while engulfing vortex still fully entraps them

[cunning urchin]

That's a good thought. I hadn't considered that.

[gusty elm]

apart from once for the pact, i've personally been scared to play with force overtime at all lol

i feel like everything would change subtly and mess me up

also flamewheels would be absolute death lmao

[cunning urchin]

Don't worry. It's not subtle.

[gusty elm]

hahahaha

hades certainly wouldn't miss me anymore

(until i adjust)

[cunning urchin]

Even when you get more experience, it's not like no-hitting Hades at FO2 is very common.

[gusty elm]

oof yeah

[cunning urchin]

It definitely tests your reactions a lot more, but also your strategy etc.

[gusty elm]

everything just happens so fast

[cunning urchin]

Not everyone who regularly plays FO2 and is successful has necessarily better reactions than the average player.

(+ hardware is a factor because of input lag)

I imagine the trend is in that direction, though. But there are all kinds of playstyles.

[gusty elm]

i know i already struggle without FO, so I won't be taking it until I need to

[cunning urchin]

I probably end up taking quite a bit of damage for relying too much on my reactions lol. So maybe having good reactions can be detrimental in that way.

[rancid shard]

don't make the mistake i did and go straight to FO2, that was a stressful run

[fervent canyon]

I think going to FO2 early is better because it makes you a better player

At least imo

I’m still bad but doing FO2 has been good practice

[rancid shard]

that's solid thinking, i think i'll start doing that actually

[hearty elbow]

The most important hurdles for progression are EM3, FO2, and BP2

You are setting yourself up for... a difficult 16 heat if you do that, but it gives you the skillset necessary to go way beyond that once you get comfortable

[cunning urchin]

The three pacts I have always maxed now are LC4 FO2 TD2.

Everything else I might change up.

I should do CF2 default, too.

[gusty elm]

yeah, i usually run with EM2 and no FO or BP

[hearty elbow]

TD2 does nothing to teach you early on though. TD1 you could make the argument for playing with a timer at all (also so you can gauge whether you would have finished a biome in 7 minutes or not)

[cunning urchin]

But it's kinda fun having ridiculous builds sometimes because everything is so cheap lol.

[gusty elm]

i can probably get the 32 heat skelly challenge done without those 3 (or TD for that matter)

[cunning urchin]

TD2 teaches you aggression and focusing your build for damage.

[hearty elbow]

And LC4 is pretty brutal for the learning curve too. Stubborn Defiance it a totally different playstyle and gives you a LOT less mistakes to work with for individual encounters.

TD1 does that exactly the same way. You just need the timer for a form of measurement

[gray moon]

do you guys feel like 3 DDs is a bit too generous?

in general, i mean

[hearty elbow]

Not particularly, no

Mostly because LC4 is there to "reward" you for finishing runs with 3 DDs left.

[cunning urchin]

I would definitely put TD1 and then TD2 after that as the first things to learn to eventually do high heats. But that's just how I personally play.

The list of pacts I've always on wasn't meant as a guide to getting good, anyway.

I think for that you just gotta learn to deal with every pact and then make your own decisions about what you're best at dealing with etc.

Some people never pick TD2 at all at high heats. Everyone has stuff they rather avoid, aspects they don't vibe with . . .

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, though if your goal is to progress into higher heat territory you're doing yourself a disservice by dodging BP2 FO2 EM3. You may not have to have them all active at the same time, but they ask the hardest and most unique questions of all the pacts (minus AP2 and RI3-4, but I would never ask someone to learn how to play with those unless I wanted them to quit the game lol)

[cunning urchin]

I don't think EM3 is very important. EM2 probably is.

[hearty elbow]

TD2 is worth a lot of heat, but it mostly just boils down to getting your own mechanics down and learning how to deal damage efficiently, which you can learn wherever.

[cunning urchin]

I think people often do themselves a disservice picking EM3 when there are easier options.

[static jacinth]

It's 2 heat that only affects two rooms at most, I think it's worth learning it if you're climbing heats.

[hearty elbow]

Depends on their goals. EM3 requires a lot of iteration to master, the earlier the better.

[static jacinth]

There are easier heats than Forced Overtime, but I'd still say it's important to take and learn it.

[cunning urchin]

Quite a bit of the fight is just RNG, though.

It's 2 heat that only affects two rooms at most,
That a whole lot of people die in.

[static jacinth]

That's why you gotta practice it!

If I didn't have Forced Overtime on, I think I'd die at least 50% less.

Every enemy permanently slowed? Easy life.

But I use it to get better.

[hearty elbow]

Right. So if a player's goal is "I want to hit 32 heat to get the Skelly statues" or "I want to hit 20 heat to get the bounties" EM3 is a waste of time, but if you have the bigger goal of getting better at the game in general, you should probably start learning earlier than later.

[cunning urchin]

That's why you gotta practice it!
Or you could just do something easier. I've practiced the fight a ton. I still think it's a ridiculous fight with FO2. I think Hades is harder, but Hades is fair. You don't take damage from off-screen projectiles that you have no way of evading on reaction etc.

[steady hatch]

the biggest issue with forced overtime is that it makes hades way harder

[cunning urchin]

32 is probably the max that most people are interested in that aren't posting in the #h1-high-heat-strategies channel.

It's two skulls.

That combo is one of the main reasons I avoid DC2 like the plague lol.

[steady hatch]

i loved seeing that skull drop from 3 to 2

[hearty elbow]

Teamwork makes the dream work

[cunning urchin]

Also, come to think of it, his skulls are probably the main reason I want Deflect lol.

[hearty elbow]

The deflect damage on skulls is mega juicy

[steady hatch]

deflect is an overpowered mechanic throughout the game

if you're having problems at 40+ with any given aspect, the solution is usually to include more athena

[cunning urchin]

For me it's more about just simply not having to deal any skulls floating around.

They just go poof~ into the void.

[hearty elbow]

Lol with bows it's so I can get more supplemental damage on Hades to phase him faster.

[reef galleon]

I will never go out with Rama again

[rancid shard]

what's the general guidance for keepsakes? use what you like? use a boon specific one to force a build?

[glass rapids]

A minor thing, but the description for Demeter's Crystal Beam boon doesn't mention that the beam inflicts the Chill status affect. I just played a run where I avoided grabbing it until near the end simply because I thought it only dealt damage.
@tepid citrus It only does that with the Glacial Glare boon

[tepid citrus]

Hold on, let me test it again

[glass rapids]

what's the general guidance for keepsakes? use what you like? use a boon specific one to force a build?
acorn for bossfights you struggle at, olympian ones for whatever build you want, cthonic purse/cosmic egg are what i start with, lambent plume works well with zag fists, spearpoint is nice for styx

[tepid citrus]

I don't have that boon and I'm certain it gave the status effect

nvm you're right, I think the Chill was caused by my Snow Burst boon, my bad

[worn sand]

Does Chaos boons not affect things like Doom / Hangover damage?

If so, why not?

[main osprey]

no, and because Chaos affects the damage of the attack itself--doom and hangover (and lightning) are separate effects

[worn sand]

Doesnt that just mean doom etc end up being relatively weaker?

And deflect/heartbreak/crit being more OP

[main osprey]

not necessarily, because they also have higher base damage equivalents

hangover stacks super high and melts enemies--potentially doubling the damage on it with Chaos would be broken

lightning is massive AoE damage (massive is probably overstating)

doom is a bit funky, but the math works out for most weapons

[cunning urchin]

The only boons that benefit more than the others from Master Chaos's boons are Deadly Strike and Deadly Flourish because of crits.

For everything else, it's the same additive damage.

[worn sand]

Huh, i never realised

So something like 50 dmg base + 50% boon + 50% chaos would only end up as 100 dmg total?

[main osprey]

iirc, chaos and boons are applied separately

but I may be remembering that wrong

[worn sand]

What about things like privileged status / daedalus hammers?

[main osprey]

Hammers affect your base damage

[cunning urchin]

Yes, that's 50 + 25 + 25 = 100 damage.

[worn sand]

So hammer + chaos = big dps?

Or hammers + anything

[gleaming current]

Chaos and boons definitely stack additively

They aren't separate

[main osprey]

o7 Thanks, I remember it being discussed a while back and couldn't remember

[cunning urchin]

Basically everything is additive except "Charged" hammers, crits, and Heart Rend.

[worn sand]

When you have conditional hammers, like “charge special for up to +100% dmg”, is this also only special base dmg, excluding Boons?

Or “deal +50% dmg on return”

[cunning urchin]

"Charged" hammers are multiplicative.

50 base damage with "charge for up to +100% damage" and common Heartbreak Flourish (+80% damage) would be:

50 * 2 * 1.8 = 180 damage.

All the other +% hammers are additive.

Crits are x3, and Heart Rend is x1.5, also multiplicative.

So if you had Pressure Points for that special to crit:

50 * 2 * 1.8 * 3 = 540 crit damage.

With Heart Rend:

50 * 2 * 1.8 * 3 * 1.5 = 810 crit damage.

[static jacinth]

So basically, the charged hammers change your base damage for the attack?

[cunning urchin]

You could say so, but that's ambiguous.

[worn sand]

So with Charged X, you never want zeus/hangover/doom?

[cunning urchin]

Probably not.

I wouldn't say "never" because there might be effective strategies like that.

[turbid needle]

Hey, if I have a duo boon (poseidon and ares, the pulsed aoe around me)

and I get offered a replacement of the base cast from dionysus

(heroic trippy shot)

will it take away the duo:?

I wanna know cuz I got a very strong chaos boon and I shredded lernie in 2 seconds

I don't wanna give up this power lol

[random hull]

Curse of drowning only works with the Poseidon cast (the game isn't very clear on that one). Do not give it away.

[turbid needle]

thank you very much <3

[unique summit]

How can i unlock the last aspect for the sword? (not sure if this is the right channel to ask)

[magic dagger]

check the pins in #h1-story-discussion

[unique summit]

Thx

check the pins in #h1-story-discussion
@magic dagger

[tawny mica]

I have a question

I know that Athena’s Boons are usually preferred over the other gods

But in this case I have a Heart Breaker Lv3 Epic or a Curse of Agony Lv3 Heroic

Which one is considered better in this case for using Guan Yu?

Heartbreaker Strike at this level deals +132% damage and Curse of Agony deals 181 doom damage

[small stirrup]

If you have good doom boons then you should probs go for curse of agony

[tawny mica]

Sadly I only have Battle Rage and Urge to Kill

In terms of boons for Ares

So I guess I’m sticking with heart beaker then

[small stirrup]

Yeah

[tawny mica]

Dang. I was going to post an image of what I got but can’t post here..

It’s not much but I’m managing I gues

[small stirrup]

You can if you use a 3rd party software like gyazo or imgur

[tawny mica]

Just near the end so I’m trying to optimize

let’s see 1 sec

Eh I’ll leave it

Maybe I’m over thinking it, cause like if I can’t take that my only other options are curse of pain or curse of vengeance

Both rare

I guess curse of pain will do not much else for it

[wise crescent]

Is it just me or is the || aspect of Arthur || OP as hell with Artemis attack boons?
Got my first sub 20 min run with it and the plume keepsake, and I haven’t failed a run since I unlocked it.

[main osprey]

It's pretty strong, yeah

[wise crescent]

I do think I’m getting better in general, I got my first clear with the fists yesterday. Still haven’t mastered any of the lances or bows or shields, but I figure that’s more because I haven’t invested in any aspect beyond level 1. Though ||the aspects of Achilles and Hera || feel really powerful for casts, I struggle with their speed quite a bit.

[cunning urchin]

Best way to tell if something is OP is to turn up the heat until you get dizzy and see if it's still that easy.

I think it's pretty common for newer players to eventually find a build on some aspect that just works and clicks with them.

And then things snowball a bit for them from there because they complete more runs, get more experience and become more powerful in the game, etc.

At least for awhile.

[magic dagger]

ice win is the right build.
not just for noobs. for everyone.

[cunning urchin]

I think you mean newb or newbie. Noob is derogatory.

[wise crescent]

I think you mean newb or newbie. Noob is derogatory.
@cunning urchin
I’ve been around long enough to not take offense for any variation of noob 😅

[main osprey]

Ah, but what about n00b?

[wise crescent]

Lysol, do you mean Demeter’s boons?
It definitely pairs well with this aspect in particular, and it keeps enemies at a speed I can dance around

[main osprey]

Ice win is the Demeter/Dio Duo boon (Ice Wine)

But the build is called Ice Win

[wise crescent]

@main osprey at that point they’re either trying too hard or joking around, in my experience
1337 speak just isn’t used anymore

[main osprey]

Valid

[wise crescent]

Oh! I don’t think I’ve taken that boon before

[main osprey]

It's fun

Want a hint for it, or nah?

[wise crescent]

I checked the wiki for how to get it!

[main osprey]

Lol that works

[cunning urchin]

@wise crescent b&

[wise crescent]

I’m a shameless googler

[main osprey]

Nyaanyaa I have never seen you use 1337 5p33ch

[cunning urchin]

There's a first time for everything, they say.

[main osprey]

They do say that, don't they

[magic dagger]

since when is n003 derogatory?

[tawny mica]

Wait I’m confused I though Divine Boons overruled a lot of other boons?

Tbh I actually don’t know a lot about Min-Max ing in Hades

since I’ve only really done up to Lv2 heat

[main osprey]

No boons automatically override others

Also you might want to edit that typo

[tawny mica]

OH NO

[main osprey]

Kek

[tawny mica]

But yeah like I had asked here the other day about boons and some people said Divine common > anything Heroic

So I’m not sure what to believe

[main osprey]

They can be better

They're not the end-all-be-all

[tawny mica]

is there anything like that in the game?

tbh when I went in I just do what I always do and Adapt

[main osprey]

Yeah

The Ares/Athena Duo is super powerful, but other than that I don't think there's a dominant meta

[tawny mica]

You mean the one that triggers when you cause deflect status?

[wise crescent]

since when is n003 derogatory?
@magic dagger always has been

[main osprey]

Yup

[tawny mica]

hm, well usually whatever happens I always try to get Divine Dash before anything else even if it’s just Common

[magic dagger]

always has been
🔫

[tawny mica]

It helps when you dash around as much as I do kinda buffing your dodge defenses really

[wise crescent]

Divine boons are fantastic, but I’ve done plenty of clears without a single one.

[tawny mica]

hm I mean yeah like there’s been a lot of times Athena’s never shown up

But after asking here I started Perusing her actively

now I’m just wondering about things like keepsakes and stuff I should grab before going on

cause I’m addition to the Ares/Athena boon the Athens/Demeter Duo boon is also really useful

[wise crescent]

Also just got the || Zeus aspect || and Zeus came down and immediately gave me a special boon and it’s like it was meant to be. I beat ||charon|| and cleared Tartarus with time to spare on my ||tight deadline||.

[tawny mica]

Regen health on 0 Defiance has saved my hide more times than I can count

[wise crescent]

I actually seek out Athena, Ares, or Demeter if I’m struggling with DD. The free replenishment is wonderful, honestly.

[tawny mica]

tbh I’m still missing some boons in general and I’m not sure why they aren’t showing up. I know some need lesser boons first since they augment them

I think split lighting was one?

or something like that?

[wise crescent]

I haven’t found that one either. That and Hermes’ legendary boons.

oops

I will definitely be seeking out Zeus’ boons for this run, though. Very very good

[timid remnant]

if there's only one enemy in the room (the final boss for instance), does hunter's mark mark that enemy, or does it just not mark anything?

[main osprey]

Doesn't mark anything

[timid remnant]

rip

i figured

thanks

[indigo pulsar]

4th aspect on spear is difficult to deal with at times

Any recommended gods so I know which keepsake to go in with?

[main osprey]

Aphrodite

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Flourish would be my go-to strategy.

But Divine Strike is a fun build, too.

I would basically build for Heartbreak Flourish + Divine Dash + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air.

[main osprey]

Zeus' attack boon also does very well if you get Quick Spin

[indigo pulsar]

I see

Thank you

[cunning urchin]

Lightning Strike seems like a very poor choice, actually. It doesn't scale at all with charging your spin.

[indigo pulsar]

OK I have a choice now

Artemis boon or Zeus boon

[cunning urchin]

What do you have so far?

[indigo pulsar]

If I had to choose between these two at the start who would I go for?

[cunning urchin]

Lady Artemis and get Deadly Flourish.

Hunter Dash isn't too bad, either, if she doesn't offer Deadly Flourish.

[indigo pulsar]

Currently have a lot of boons from a a fair few different gods

[magic dagger]

or hunter dash and go for serrated point

[indigo pulsar]

Already got hunter dash and started with tempest flourish

[cunning urchin]

Well, I dunno, maybe post a screenshot, so we can see your build.

Link a screenshot, rather.

[indigo pulsar]

Can't say I've used anything to link screenshots to be honest

[cunning urchin]

You can just upload one to imgur.com or something. That's what I do.

I think most people here use imgur.

[indigo pulsar]

Oh cool

https://imgur.com/f5SywPD

First time using this aspect so had no idea what to go for

[magic dagger]

whew boi
tempest strike with sea storm on GY is 😘👌

[indigo pulsar]

Yeah it's super useful apparently lol

[cunning urchin]

Definitely go for Lord Zeus.

[indigo pulsar]

Except when it knocks foes away when you need health

[main osprey]

Yup

[magic dagger]

does splitting bolt affect sea storm?

[main osprey]

For GY, Lightning Strike is better than Tempest + Sea Storm, imo

[indigo pulsar]

Cool, let's see what he offers

[cunning urchin]

@magic dagger it should.

If not, it's still good for Zeus' Aid. Either way, it's a win.

[indigo pulsar]

Rare billowing strength, double strike and splitting bolt

[cunning urchin]

Lightning Strike and Tempest Strike seem like the two worst options maybe for Guan Yu.

[magic dagger]

splitting bolt

[cunning urchin]

^

[indigo pulsar]

Yeah not really a difficult choice given a common/rare vs legendary

[cunning urchin]

That's basically what I send you to him for lol.

[magic dagger]

splitting bolt is 40 extra damage on every hit with that build

(It is 40 right?)

[indigo pulsar]

Yep

[main osprey]

Ye

[indigo pulsar]

Can use my fated (authority?) to change the room from a key to something else but should I save it for the next region?

I'll save it probably

[magic dagger]

keys are +1 use of authority anyways

[cunning urchin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/520688402958516254/660997121406926849/hades_room_rewards_guide.png?width=757&height=462

Blue laurel rewards only reroll into blue laurel rewards, anyway.

[magic dagger]

thank you sparrow

[cunning urchin]

So there's not much to gain.

[indigo pulsar]

Yeah

I forgot that

[magic dagger]

lol Dem has no representation in this guide

[cunning urchin]

Well, she had no representation in the game at the time, either.

[indigo pulsar]

I conveniently parked myself in front of every trap in that room thanks to it being Elysium

Lol

[cunning urchin]

Gotta show up to show up.

I've no idea how to use Authority well, anyway. I use Persuasion like 99% of the time.

[indigo pulsar]

Ooh razor shoals too

[magic dagger]

pog

[indigo pulsar]

So tempest strike/razor shoals/sea storm/splitting bolt

The two champions are in for a world of hurt

[magic dagger]

do you have privileged status?

[indigo pulsar]

I don't think so, what does that mean?

[magic dagger]

nm no jolted

[cunning urchin]

It's so weird seeing "pog" outside of the FGC.

[magic dagger]

privileged status makes you deal 40% more damage to enemies with two status effects

e.g. jolted and rupture

[indigo pulsar]

Oh that

Yeah no jolted but I could end up getting it soon

Would end up kicking myself if that happened but it is what it is

[dry ember]

Hunter's Mark is as much of a status effect as a tomato is a fruit.

[indigo pulsar]

Alright, full health at 75, all 3 DDs

Gonna use thunder signet in an attempt to get jolted

[crude sky]

How is Hera's bow affected by attack damage buffs or boons like Ares's Battle Rage? Does it affect only the base arrow dmg or is the cast also factored in?

[random hull]

The arrow and the cast are separate damage instances (which becomes apparent as either of the two can hit, and the other miss). Attack modifiers always only apply to the arrows.

[crude sky]

Sweet, appreciate it

[clever matrix]

using aspect of lucifer and got triple beam, now I have the option to get concentrated beam (ramps beam damage 100% faster) or flash fire (fires 50% faster with +15% range). I like the range option but damage is always good right

[timid remnant]

Does anyone know if Dire Misfortune affects the future instances of doom from Curse of Longing?
i.e, if the base damage of each doom proc is 100, then each doom proc caused by curse of longing would do 50. If i hit the enemy 4 additional times on the first proc, so that it's doing 140 due to Dire Misfortune, does the next proc (caused by curse of longing) do 70 or just 50?

[wise crescent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/520688402958516254/660997121406926849/hades_room_rewards_guide.png?width=757&height=462
@cunning urchin isn’t it a thing where you only get 2 Daedalus boons appearing in a run, until the anvil?

[main osprey]

not quite

you can't get more than 2

but it can show up more than twice if you don't take it

though

I'm not certain how buying it in Charon's shops interacts with that

[wise crescent]

using aspect of lucifer and got triple beam, now I have the option to get concentrated beam (ramps beam damage 100% faster) or flash fire (fires 50% faster with +15% range). I like the range option but damage is always good right
@clever matrix I usually run with triple beam and concentrated beam! It’s a VERY strong combination

[timid remnant]

ok so i figured out that Curse of longing halves the damage for each successive time, and reapplying doom just resets the value to your base doom damage, which in retrospect is the most intuitive

so with base doom damage @ 100, Dire Misfortune at 10, and Curse of Longing, hitting an enemy 5 times with your doom ability (Chiron special in my case) does 140+70+35+...

and if you use your special again, it just resets to 140 and repeats

[clever matrix]

so I finished my run with aspect of lucifer and I had the athena deflect boon for my special but I had no idea when the deflect triggers, it seemed like leaving the funney explodey ball around would just randomly deflect within proximity but I couldn't tell if it also deflected when I launched it

at some point EM theseus got his chariot stuck on it and was taking deflect damage from it which was amazing

[finite igloo]

nice RCG icon~.

also I am not sure, but I do know it ticks on the pulses from the hellfire orbs

How do people build Achilles aspect on spear? I wanna play around with it some, just looking for ideas. from what I understand, the damage for casted stuff is based on when you cast it, so like Blade Rifts and crystals should get a lot of mileage out of the damage boost

also i am at work and just bored so I can’t actually test anything 😛

[tight eagle]

How do people build Achilles aspect on spear? I wanna play around with it some, just looking for ideas. from what I understand, the damage for casted stuff is based on when you cast it, so like Blade Rifts and crystals should get a lot of mileage out of the damage boost
@finite igloo exactly, cast build like trippy shots/crystals/blade rifts work astoundingly well with Achilles

[unkempt pagoda]

crystals and blade rifts especially love the +% boost

however, you also have to play achilles spear

[bronze geyser]

How exactly does damage resistance interact? If I have 10% resistance from athena and 10% from aphrodite, do I have 20% damage reduction, or do I get 10% reduction on 90% of the damage?

[main osprey]

That sounds correct—Weak reduces damage output, Resistance reduces damage taken. Don't know for sure though

[half crater]

the difference would honestly be pretty minuscule

we’re talking 1, maybe 2 percent if you stack all the DR you possibly can

i agree with swan tho; i suspect it’s the latter based purely on the fact that it works that way basically everywhere else, and it’s more logical mathematically regardless

[static jacinth]

I believe that damage reduction scales relatively poorly.

All the percentages modify your highest value.

So you'd have 11% damage reduction in that case.

[upper salmon]

does swift flourish work as expected with charged volley

[magic dagger]

I think so
It seemed like it last time I got both

[upper salmon]

cool

[small stirrup]

What do you mean by "as expected"?

You mean does it increase the charge up time?

Cause if I recall someone mentioned that the hermes swift boons don't increase charge up time but just the attack

[magic dagger]

the special is still the basic special
should get +charge per time with a swift boon just like the attack

but it has been a while

[upper salmon]

yeah expected charge time

[finite igloo]

Anyone play with the demeter aspect of the fists?

wondering what the best aspects would be for multihit specials

[thick gyro]

https://imgur.com/a/CSJgZRx

unintentionally get this build

full cast damage by ares

[finite igloo]

gosh

[magic dagger]

that has nothing to do with multihit specials

[finite igloo]

err by best aspects, i meant best boons

Was thinking either zeus special and trying multiple thunderbolt shenanigans, or maybe artemis for crit fishing

guess you could do that stacking doom boon, but i've never found that to be all that great

it always seems to do less damage than I'd hoped

[magic dagger]

doom special isn't worth it, no

just damage and hopefully status effects is your best bet
so you can delete small mobs and cripple bosses

[finite igloo]

yeah I'm just doing a thing where i play each aspect and try to make the most use of their special traits

and I'm on Demeter fists

so wanted to figure what would make most use of her special trait

Flying Cutter hammer upgrade would only work on the first hit of the Demeter special I assume

[cunning urchin]

No, it works on all hits.

[finite igloo]

hmm

[void fjord]

i works on all hits, but i have experienced some jank with it

like even though i have it charged, it only releases one hit

[finite igloo]

hey, Fists of Demeter Gang seems like some people I should talk to

since I'm asking this

[void fjord]

ye

[finite igloo]

do you have favorite/ideal boon setups for Demeter fists then?

[void fjord]

lol was just going to ask whether u wanted this

a build that has always done good for me is, an ares or arty attack + aphro special + zeus cast (trying to get zeus/aphro duo) + any aid of your choice (my personal fav is between athena or aphro)

you should also know if you hit multiple enemies at once it counts as 2 or how many ever enemies you hit at once, so if 3 enemies are right next to eaxh other, hitting all 3 at the same time will charge the special in 4 punches as compared to 12 punches

[finite igloo]

hmm

[void fjord]

Assuming ur already using the pact, i suggest JS to start of as it lets u charge it faster with more enemies around you

[finite igloo]

aye

do you like plume?

I'm basically in mid-teens heat

[void fjord]

i use it occasioanlly

ah nice

im in the same sit, trying to do 42 rn

[finite igloo]

hah

[void fjord]

i suggest using the epic rarity mirror talent, since it lets you get a better special attack

letting you maximize special dmg

in my experience plume is a keepsake you start with and never remove, for maximum usage

[finite igloo]

aye

most of my fist runs are just zag aspect but trying to mess with other stuff

and zag aspect + plume you can get silly amounts of dodge

[void fjord]

ah, zag is pretty cool

yep

[finite igloo]

and damage if you get the hermes move speed into damage boon

[void fjord]

though most of the time i invest in just hermes boons lol

as a great man once said

"now that's a lot of damage"

[deep urchin]

hi just thinking does exampel "pressure point" make every hit you make chace of crit or does it need aspect that has chance of crit, artemis boon that make it happen?

[magic dagger]

every hit
including hangover, doom, etc.

same goes for hunter's mark and deadly reversal

[deep urchin]

nice thx

[finite igloo]

pressure point by far one of my favorite boons 😛

especially with stuff that attacks fast + support fire

[deep urchin]

Huntting blades 😄

[finite igloo]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OpenLeafyBillygoat-small.gif

[deep urchin]

got it on my first clear and have not got it after that

[hardy dragon]

hiya lads

I have finally managed to beat the game with all the weapons once and I am now going to try the poseidon blade but I have no idea how to do a casting build

would anyone be able to give me a basic idea on one? That way as i get more experienced I can branch out and experiment

[void fjord]

for poseidon. i suggest a cast that sticks easily, smtg like artemis or athena, then getting duos that are there for that cast. I think poseidon cast is one of the better ones for duos (not really sure i dont really do casting builds).

getting artemis is good since she also has a support boon of the cast doing dmg when exiting an enemy

[hardy dragon]

smtg?

[livid dew]

i dont know if its a glitch but ive been able to stun lock || hades 2nd life || multiple runs in a row with ||zeus + aphro duo|| and ||aphro call|| as soon as he does his ||spinning laser attack|| i use the call and it cancels it out and he starts the charge up again which gives me enough time to use the call again. pretty much stopping him from moving and you just stun lock his ||2nd life|| with ease. tested it out on all different types of heats and runs and its just the easiest boss fight with this combo. like i get the combo is strong but to pretty much stop a boss from working seems a bit busted or at least a glitch im not 100% sure.

[hardy dragon]

sounds quite interesting!

[livid dew]

i have done it 5 times and it always makes me laugh but i started to realize wait a second this might be a glitch or bug

[hardy dragon]

@void fjord Yea I've never tried a casting build but I have dark thirst on my sword and I unlocked all but the last row of aspects on weapons so I want to give it a try

[livid dew]

i dont think it was intended to be that strong

[hardy dragon]

so you used the sword then?

[deep urchin]

@livid dew i did ginda same with lucifer aphro attack and legendary

[hardy dragon]

I'd definitely like to try the poseidon aspect out

but as for which cast apart from artemis I am not sure what to use

ive used artemis for the last 4 runs and im kinda wanting to try another god out lol

[deep urchin]

well i had fun with poseidon cast and got demiter duo for that. Then you go for hermes flurry cast and try to get more cast stones so you can max your dps

[hardy dragon]

@deep urchin perfect!

ill give it a shot

anything else I should aim for?

[deep urchin]

and if you get Greater Recall from hermes only thing you need to do is dodging and casting

[hardy dragon]

should I use the cast that sticks or regenerates?

oh yea lol

nvm

i do wonder if the cast dislodges with poseidon aspect

[deep urchin]

if i remember right pos demiter duo cast do not stick but you still get bonus cast damage out of aspect

[finite igloo]

huh, just got Blizzard Shot for the first time

silly run

[deep urchin]

yup pretty fun

[hardy dragon]

what does it do?

[deep urchin]

you will see

😉

[hardy dragon]

lol okie doke

uh frost strike or frost flourish?

i have never really picked demeter

[deep urchin]

bouth of them are good

[finite igloo]

depends what you want to do with it

she has decent +% damage modifier, kinda like aphrodite

if you're trying to use Privileged Position, the Chill debuff lasts a long time so you can just slap it on a special you don't use as much

if you want to apply lots of stacks of chill to trigger the burst from her other boon, faster attacks is gonna be nice too i think

[hardy dragon]

so poseidon DOES stick in enemies

[hardy dragon]

awesome I finished my runs

so what goes well with chaos shield?

how about zeus shield?

also theres a bunch of three diamond house renovations that look really good

the one that gives extra obol for collecting gems, one where keys give a fated authority, one where nectar gives you a random level 1 boon, and the one that gives extra gems for dark thirst although thats worth 2

not really sure which to pursue first

[slate dirge]

I really like Ares or Dio Special for Chaos Shield, especially if you have the aspect maxed out, you can easily build stacks with the Dio, or spread out damage with Ares special @hardy dragon

[steady hatch]

dio, zeus and ares all work pretty well for chaos shield

[void fjord]

@hardy dragon just play the game, and see what feels the best for you

fated authority and the nectar are good ones to pursue first i suggest

[hardy dragon]

ty oldhunter

i understand that point boredhub but I prefer to have a bit of wisdom from others that I can expand on and build through my own experience

[void fjord]

yea i get that, i aint gonna stop someone from playing from how they want to

[hybrid oyster]

fated authority (the key upgrade) is a strong one because it will earn you more rerolls even if you havent unlocked the first one

so i swapped my mirror to alternate for fated authority and would earn 2-3 keys per run without having invested all the darkness intot he mirror to actually unlock any to start with

doesnt matter now since i have like 20k darkness but it mattered then

and the nectar 2nd because boon upgrades are great especially early game

like very often you can run into a nectar after having only acquired 1 boon in tartarus

[spark lotus]

have anyone tried building with zeus-poseidon duo? looks like a lot of free damage. it applies by default to shield attack since it has a bit of knockback

so if attack is also zeus, it should strike both lightning chain AND lightning bolt

[half crater]

legit question about that duo; if you have it, second wave and splitting bolt how much lightning do you get?

[barren otter]

I'm certain that Sea Storm only affects boons with knockback effect (so Poseidon core boons), not any knockback.

[spark lotus]

i don't have it, just theorycrafting

[main osprey]

Pretty sure it doesn't auto apply to shield

It only applies to Poseidon Boons

[spark lotus]

it does, my friend tried it

he played chaos shield so had no attack boon

i'm gonna try it today, will report here

[main osprey]

legit question about that duo; if you have it, second wave and splitting bolt how much lightning do you get?
@half crater Pretty sure the 0.3s internal CD applies to Sea Storm. But would still be ~doubled by Splitting Bolt

[spark lotus]

if CD applies, it should still be possible to add zeus bolt damage to aphro attack

or anything else really

[half crater]

so only 2 strikes? sad times

[static jacinth]

I've had Sea Storm before, it didn't apply to shield attack.

[hearty elbow]

They really should fix the phrasing on the Poseidon boons to differentiate between non-Poseidon knockbacks

Which I think is Shield attack, bull rush, Sword special, one of Rama's hammers, maybe one of the fist hammers? Can't remember.

[solar gorge]

Im pretty sure most of the poseidon boons affecting knockback specify only "boons" that knockback

[hearty elbow]

Using knock-away effects also Rupture foes.

You deal more damage when slamming foes into barriers.

Slamming foes into walls or corners creates a watery blast in the area.

Your knock-away effects shove foes a second time after the first.

Your knock-away effects also cause foes to be struck by lightning.

I'm actually not sure if Breaking Wave or Typhoon's Fury affect other knockbacks, but I'm certain none of the other ones do

[static jacinth]

You still get extra wall slam damage.

[polar rivet]

whats a good rama build

[magic dagger]

twin shot and explosive shot

[polar rivet]

what god for attack

[magic dagger]

go for dash-strikes at point blank, things just die

[polar rivet]

special and dash just priv stat

[magic dagger]

aphro or arti

[spark lotus]

I tested just now, Sea Storm works with shield attack. Lightnings were striking consistently from above, even on Asterius

And it is specified that shield attack 'knocks foes away', so it's all right. Like, this daedalus upgrade cancels that knockback https://puu.sh/GoYVH/fc33665692.png

[wise crescent]

So is Zeus lightning flourish the worst boon to have for a Chiron bow?

[main osprey]

no, it's just not as good as it could be because of the internal CD

[wise crescent]

What’s the worst, then?

I’m not sure how to trigger yellow numbers on it

I’ve gotten a heroic phalanx cast boon to show yellow without crits, I’m assuming that’s from a high damage output..

[fallen mirage]

I think the worst might be Athena. Low base damage per arrow, so the scaling isn't great. You're not going to be using your special to deflect, so all deflects would be incidental. Maybe with Exposed it might be tolerable? Other than that I think you'd just be sad

[blazing mulch]

huh

its good, as it deflect

worst you can do it poseidon

all arrows have range limit

it can cause that not all arrows hit as it knock back

The same mistake is taking Poseidon Attack with Chiron

[wise crescent]

I ended up using Artemis for the special and Athena for attack but the anvil at the end gave me a twin shot&point blank shot (paired with a flurry shot) and I just... face melted the final boss. Good lord the DPS I was doing was ludicrous compared to what I was trying to achieve with my special, lmao

[hollow minnow]

I'm going to face the Final Boss WITH 12 HEAT!!!!!! I AM SO SCARED 😮

[regal viper]

anyone have good success with hidden aspect for shield?

[main osprey]

Charged Flight for the special

Aphrodite on Special as well

[finite igloo]

whats the deal with the internal cooldown on zeus bolts? is it only for flourish, or is it the same cooldown for all bolts?

also would demeter special with the chill burst work well for chiron?

[analog sail]

It's only for lightning flourish. Chiron and Chaos could do some very silly things when the cooldown wasn't a thing.

[static jacinth]

What about sea storm?

Isn't it for that too?

If you use it on Chiron and have Tempest Flourish.

[hearty elbow]

Good lord the DPS I was doing was ludicrous compared to what I was trying to achieve with my special, lmao
@wise crescent Unfortunately that appears to be the consensus with Chiron even at high heat, with only Twin Shot lol.

[static jacinth]

I think 1.0 is going to revamp bows a bit.

Judging by the trailer.

[narrow rampart]

Hmm, question

For attacks/specials like Dio, Ares and Zeus, which just add an effect to the attack/special rather than empowering it, do chaos damage increases apply to those boons, or just the base damage of the normal attack/special?

I always assumed it doesn't, so I never tested it myself

[hearty elbow]

They are only affected by global damage modifiers, so no.

[wise crescent]

@hearty elbow yikes

[narrow rampart]

ah okay, makes sense

[spark lotus]

Is butterfly bonus additive with other bonuses or multiplicative?

[main osprey]

most things are additive

[fading raft]

What do you guys think is the best aspect for the sword?

[visual drift]

Feel like I don't get beowulf shield. I think I've just gotten bad casts for it, and otherwise I just have to pray for charged special hammer. But is building it as a cast focus just loading up the cast and bashing good? Because it just feels so sluggish to me

[unkempt pagoda]

What do you guys think is the best aspect for the sword?
all are good at their respective jobs (except zag lol), though the most "worthy" is probably nemesis. it can clear heats super ez
Feel like I don't get beowulf shield. I think I've just gotten bad casts for it, and otherwise I just have to pray for charged special hammer. But is building it as a cast focus just loading up the cast and bashing good? Because it just feels so sluggish to me
imo i'd play cast beo as a constant onslaught of load -> rush -> pick-up -> load

meaning don't take trippy flare, as it leaves you damageless for quite a while

passion flare is probably the best for that kind of style

[visual drift]

Yeah, I had trippy flare for a bit and it felt not great to be without a cast for so long. I haven't gotten passion flare yet so I'll start hunting for that

[static jacinth]

Thunder Flare is also pretty fun.

Go the full Zeus experience.

[magic dagger]

The secret boss should be scaled to what level of the Underworld that you're in. I got the option to fight him about 5 rooms in and got absolutely wrecked since I had no boons, practically
@sonic hinge you get more rewards if you kill him earlier

[wise aspen]

how much is the dodge % from Ruthless Reflex mirror talentt?

[upper salmon]

can yarn upgrade a boon to heroic

[main osprey]

I don't think so

[tepid ridge]

No, yarn can’t but people have said it should

And also isn’t ruthless 50%? I thought it said that in the description

Well, the damage is stated as 50%, but I always thought the phrasing implied that was applied to dodge as well

As in it should mean, “after dodging at the last second, your dodge chance and damage increase by 50% for x seconds.”

[cunning urchin]

50% dodge chance, yes.

[muted herald]

rocket launcher spear p strong

[hardy dragon]

what gods tend to synergize with arthur sword? How about Demeter chill?

[analog sail]

That is a good choice.
Aphro is also good since it makes you even tankier, and Poseidon isn't bad but it's still Poseidon.

[hardy dragon]

@analog sail Poseidon is bad? I havent really used him

are there any duos that work well with arthur?

[analog sail]

Knockback isn't really useful except in some parts of Tartarus and Styx

If you want to shoot for a duo build, I'd recommend Athena/Dio

You pop down the holy aura and you don't need to care for ranged attacks

If you take SD you could also shoot for Athena/Demeter

[finite igloo]

i think you want any strong damage on your attack, so probably Aphrodite, demeter, feels like you attack too slowly to get good mileage out of artemis but i hear people use it

Athena for deflect is interesting, haven’t tried it

[analog sail]

I feel like most people are like me and take Deadly Strike just to see the 1k damage crits

[finite igloo]

Special should be something that applied a useful status curse imo

[hardy dragon]

i forget off the top of my head which one deadly strike is thats artemis right? is it the attack?

[finite igloo]

don’t think excalibur’s special has too much use beyond dropping the aura, eye em o

[analog sail]

"Strike" denotes attack boons

And deadly is Artemis, yes

[hardy dragon]

i can see why you have the yellow name

what is SD

[analog sail]

Stubborn Defiance, which is the alternative to Death Defiance

[finite igloo]

Excalibur play, i think, mostly revolves around that big damage on the third hit of your attack and being beefy or protected enouh to use it. guess you could also do caster stuff inside the aura

that is my understanding

[hardy dragon]

huh i just got this boon i never dot before

[analog sail]

Yeah that strategy works as long as you don't have FO

[hardy dragon]

so @finite igloo artemis and aphrodite or athena?

whats FO?

[analog sail]

it's the speed up pact condition

Forced Overtime

[hardy dragon]

im only on two heat

[finite igloo]

That’s my reckoning. Demeter wouldn’t be bad, it also gives high damage and applies chill

[analog sail]

I feel like you'd get more mileage with Demeter's call rather than her attack tho

[finite igloo]

Idk how people play Excalibur with Forced overtime 2. it feels far too slow for that to me, i guess dahs striking

[hardy dragon]

argh now im unable to decide which to pick starting out

[analog sail]

You don't use the third hit of the combo and you dash attack a lot

[finite igloo]

yeah thats what i figured

but feels like, why even play it then pffft 😛

[analog sail]

I would start with Athena and later pick something else, but I'm partial to Athena

[finite igloo]

i should clarify also that i am only on 15 Heat with Excalibur so i am not The Most Pro

[hardy dragon]

ok

[analog sail]

I have to resume my 32 heat grind at some point but those 150 damage urns destroyed my soul

[hardy dragon]

im trying to unlock the companions and get enough blood so that I can really play weapon aspects that need the upgrading

[finite igloo]

i was trying Plume for a bit to see if i could get the attack speed high enough on it to make a difference

[hardy dragon]

it hurts my soul that zagreus fists have zero base dodge and whatever the other thing was

[finite igloo]

i dont think i succeeded

[hardy dragon]

i dont like the feather

[analog sail]

At least it's more reliable than butterfly

[hardy dragon]

YAY! I finally got the remaining poseidon boon

i forget what the butterfly does

[finite igloo]

ah, feather is a lot of fun with zag fists to me, it is fun to stand in front of Hades and just mash attack because you dodge basically everything

[analog sail]

Damage up if you don't take damage in an encounter

[hardy dragon]

oh what do these other gates do? not the chaos ones the other ones

the ones you need heat to go into

[analog sail]

You know you can hold attack on fists right

[hardy dragon]

yea

[finite igloo]

Butterfly is a fun optional mode, it is a different way to play the game

[hardy dragon]

excalibur is CHONKY

[finite igloo]

The other gates are Infernal Gates which take you to a room with a fight, and if you clear it without taking damage, you get a boosted version of the reward

like a boss room level reward

[analog sail]

Need more heat tho

[finite igloo]

aye, you need 5 heat for gates in tartarus, 10 for asphodel, 15 for elysium

[analog sail]

5 for Tartarus, 10 for Asphodel, 15 for Elysium

[hardy dragon]

ok so epic heartbreak flourish or rare different league?

i have the arthur sword with enemies tanking 2 instances of dmg for my PoP

actually rare crush shot is the other one

[finite igloo]

i hate crush shot tbh except on hera bow

[analog sail]

DC2 is rough for Arthur

[finite igloo]

aye

[hardy dragon]

yea thats why im thinking the choice is between epic heatbreak flourish or rare different league

thats what I am trying to figure out for this boon

what pact conditions would you take then?

[analog sail]

Probably Extreme Measures

[hardy dragon]

i only need two heat atm

[analog sail]

Or the health one

[hardy dragon]

so i need one more

jury summons?

[analog sail]

Yeah that sounds ok

[torn wasp]

https://streamable.com/6o1z91

does this happen to anyone else???

she's not supposed to do that much damage is she??????

[barren otter]

it looks like the hydra was inside of two of Meg's circles, so they both hit the hydra.

[torn wasp]

Slick

[hardy dragon]

mwahahaha

i got my fastest time so far with arthur

demeter, zeus, and athena

[torn wasp]

ayyyy

[warm sandal]

what is considered a good boon for luci's special?

kinda like ares for now, shooting special while reloading but meh

[magic dagger]

does this happen to anyone else???
@torn wasp that's pretty much how it always happens. Meg is the ultimate Hydra finisher.

[torn wasp]

Damn

[cunning urchin]

Meg does 2500 damage. Lernie has 6000 HP, so that's 2000 HP in each phase.

[glass rapids]

is zag aspect for rail really that good? does it change the dps by a lot not having to reload as often?

[unkempt pagoda]

it's good for spread fire

[narrow rampart]

^

[languid marten]

For the Rail Gun. is Ricochet Fire and Explosive Shot not compatible?

[unkempt pagoda]

last i heard they can be taken together, though results vary

if sgg didn't intend for them to be compatible, they would be mutually exclusive, so theoretically it works

[languid marten]

well. i got them...and my shots now explodes but doesn't bounce anymore

[unkempt pagoda]

just curious, are you hitting them directly and not relying on the aoe?

[languid marten]

yup

[hardy dragon]

alrighty just unlocked lucifer

will it work well with just being unlocked?

[unkempt pagoda]

the blood upgrade only affect the special

generally people only use it for the attack anyways

[hardy dragon]

any tips on who works with this aspect? I usually just default to artemis and maybe dio as well

[unkempt pagoda]

zeus on attack

if you're able, grab support fire from artemis too

[hardy dragon]

what about aphrodite?

oh is the orpheus keepsake any good? Ive never used it

[unkempt pagoda]

aphrodite can work, works best if you're able to grab unhealthy fixation

zeus/support fire just outputs damage really fast

i don't use distant memory, i tend to go melee even with ranged weapons anyways

[hardy dragon]

ok so i didnt get attack but i did get epic thunder flourish?

rare thunder dash and common cast but i dont like zeus cast usually

[unkempt pagoda]

thunder flourish is ok at best with lucy special

[hardy dragon]

yea im trying to figure out which to pick among those three

bc none seem ideal

[unkempt pagoda]

what happens is that when an enemy gets close to the bomb, the lightning bolt strikes and automatically sets the bomb off

turns the bomb into more of a mine

[hardy dragon]

interesting i appreciate that

[unkempt pagoda]

if you're relying on the pulsing part of the bomb more, it's not ideal, but it can work as a fire-and-forget

[hardy dragon]

ive literally never used this aspect before

so i have no idea what to pick for those three options as my first boon

[unkempt pagoda]

thunder dash imo

[hardy dragon]

yea thats what i was leaning towards

[unkempt pagoda]

it's just pure damage, no strings attached

[hardy dragon]

whats the consensus on poms?

[unkempt pagoda]

eh on dash, you want them on attack or special

[hardy dragon]

ok

[unkempt pagoda]

unless you meant generally?

[hardy dragon]

both

so what you said as well as generally

[unkempt pagoda]

poms are great, the first level especially (since it gives the highest returns)

after a while they get less useful on most things, and generally you want to pom the main core of your build the most

[magic dagger]

slicing shot and hangover effects absolutely love poms

[unkempt pagoda]

(poms are especially useful on hangover, crystal beam, and blade rift)

there's little-to-no diminishing returns on those, since the poms only give 1-2 dmg per level, so you get a lot more bang for your buck

[static jacinth]

Though they also don't boost them by a huge amount.

[hardy dragon]

yay!

i finally got the zeus attack lol

i restarted the run a couple times bc my luck was bad with a bunch of stuff

@unkempt pagoda what do you think? deadly flourish, true shot, or artemis' aid? all are rare

[unkempt pagoda]

go deadly flourish imo so you can go fishing for support fire

[hardy dragon]

ok ty!

btw is lightning rod worth pursuing?

[unkempt pagoda]

no lol

i find it the worst duo boon, it’s pretty bad

it doesn’t have any negative side effects but the positives are little if you’re not actively leaving your casts on the field

[hardy dragon]

oh ok

are there any duo boons that are worth going after with this build?

[stoic thicket]

Rail with Zeus attack?

Gunning for as much Zeus as possible + Support Fire is probably your best bet.

[static jacinth]

I guess maybe the Demeter/Zeus duo?

But that's super marginal.

[stoic thicket]

Yeah, Lucy triggers the Zeus attack so much that you'll mostly have perma-jolted anyway.

[hardy dragon]

ok

i didnt get support fire yet should i switch to artemis arrow for asphodel or keep zeus ring on?

[unkempt pagoda]

i’d switch regardless

there isn’t much point to keeping a god keepsake on beyond that biome

[stoic thicket]

Unless you absolutely need nothing else and just want the rarity, but even then there's usually better options like the hourglass or something.

[hardy dragon]

i am still trying to figure out the keepsakes

ill put on artemis then

[stoic thicket]

God keepsakes force the god to appear, but only once. Once you've picked up the god's boon you'll only get the additional rarity on the next boon from that god but it doesn't force anymore.

[hardy dragon]

ok

is the orpheus one worth using?

i keep skelly on for styx but i am never sure what to use on elysium

[stoic thicket]

I'm a bit iffy on Orpheus. Like it's nice but a bit unreliable. Eurydice is almost always a nice pick for the later biomes.

[hardy dragon]

mann

so the artemis boon is either true shot, lightning rod, or hunters mark?

[unkempt pagoda]

oof

[hardy dragon]

i cant decide between true shot and hunters mark

[unkempt pagoda]

if you couldn’t get support fire now, i recommend just focusing entirely on zeus from this point on

[hardy dragon]

ok

which should i pick between hunters mark or true shot

[stoic thicket]

Hunter's Mark.

[hardy dragon]

ok thats what i was leaning towards as well

[stoic thicket]

It's not great but better than True Shot for you in any case.

[hardy dragon]

btw i appreciate the suggestions aurelian and onyx

[unkempt pagoda]

best case scenario is storm lightning -> splitting bolt

after splitting bolt you’re free to do whatever

[hardy dragon]

assuming i even get anymore zeus

i havent seen any since tartarus

time to fight lernie under extreme measures for the first time

well that was different

[half crater]

i used to hate EM lernie but now i love him

best version of that fight

you should get more zeus boons; having one of them makes you much more likely to run into more

[hardy dragon]

ok so either common greater evasion or common quick recovery

i think greater evasion

i wonder if I can ever get those thingies that go in the bottom of the equipment case

@unkempt pagoda i got storm lightning!

[cunning urchin]

If you run Lightning Strike, you'll want to go for Smoldering Air. Easiest route would be Lightning Strike + Aphrodite's Aid, but any core boon from Lady Aphrodite can work if you have another call.

[hardy dragon]

well not a fan of this aspect

first time ive lost a run in awhile

also I HATE THESEUS

shield enemies are cancer

[half crater]

were you running EM on Theseus too?

that fight is hard

[cunning urchin]

Hmm. It's easy to evade his attacks, and he'll always turn his back to you after attacking.

[hardy dragon]

no i wasnt

what about arthur aspect then?

who works well with that? Artemis works well w/ everything i know

demeter and zeus?

oh well

[half crater]

i like arty attack + aphro special -> heart rend

but i'm far from the most experienced arthur player

you probably want arty or aphro on attack for sure, tho

[hardy dragon]

ok

[half crater]

oh the other thing is demeter call + greater consecration

its absolutely hilarious how much that combo slows enemies down

they practically can't move at all

[hardy dragon]

whats greater consecration?

[half crater]

its a hammer option

gives a massive buff to holy aura

[hardy dragon]

ah ok i already got my 2 hammers for the run

ive got demeter attack actually

and her special

and the one that makes them explode with enough stacks

so lots of demeter atm lol bc i had no idea what to pick

[half crater]

fair enough

honestly Demeter probably isn't the worst choice; keeping those enemies slowed gives you time to build up your attacks

[hardy dragon]

i lost to hades

i kind of want to try the beowulf shield i unlocked now

although dark thirst is on my bow

[stoic thicket]

Dark Thirst is like a 20% bonus, you are totally allowed to run weapons that don't have it if that's what you want to do.

[hardy dragon]

yea but i have no clue what to do for beowulf shield

its very different that what I have seen

same goes for guan yu

i have zero clue what to do with it

of course i dont have the latter fully upgraded so i want really be using it a lot

[stoic thicket]

Guan Yu is fairly straightforward, at least on lower heat levels. The special is the money maker.

Charged Skewer hammer upgrade and then something with smorc on the special. Artemis, Aphro, stuff like that.

[hardy dragon]

okie doke

@stoic thicket hb the beowulf shield?

[stoic thicket]

You can either put in a nice chunky cast like Artemis and use it the way it's meant to be used, or you can build for the special. It has a similar thing to Charged Skewer, and chonks like hell.

[hardy dragon]

i like using it the way its meant to be used at least for the first time I, trying it out

so artemis cast then? as well as the boon that shoots arrows out from her as well?

[main osprey]

Demeter or Ares cast are also both decent on Beo

[hardy dragon]

any other boons that are good?

[main osprey]

Dunno for sure, haven't used it much

[hardy dragon]

lol yea me neither

however beowulf seems to be VERY good

[stoic thicket]

It's probably my least favorite shield aspect, but that's more because Chaos is so incredibly good.

[hardy dragon]

yea chaos is REALLY good lol

what did you mean with the guan yu spear by "smorc on the special"?

[stoic thicket]

Something with a large damage bonus. Artemis because of the crits, or any of the other high damage bonus boons. Don't put Dio, Zeus or Ares on there.

[hardy dragon]

ok cool!

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike scales best with Charged Skewer and applies Weak.

[rare kayak]

chaos isnt just good

its fun

you get to watch fun special effects

you get to trigger like 80 curses at once

and you get to ride around with ur best pal chaos

[small stirrup]

@hazy cliff (From your most recent feedback) Though its not in-game, the community already manages something known as the Hades Weekly Challenge. We are currently on a hiatus but you can definitely try them! We have about 10 challenges already ready for attempting and if you do manage to finish them, your name gets featured in the Hall of Fame. You can always check the current weekly challenge in the pinned msgs of #h1-builds-and-combat.

[unkempt pagoda]

main hydra head variants, ranked by difficulty:

1. Slams
2. Waves
3. Spikes
4. Summons
5. Lava

support hydra head variants:

1. Waves
2. Spikes
3. Slams
4. Lava
5. Summons

tl;dr: slammer head is a run-killer and i don't like it ❤️

[drifting vale]

I dont know how dodge % stacks but Aspect of Zagerus fists 15% and lambent plume at 26.6% for a total of 41.6% is amazing

[olive badge]

which hammer is good for the Lucifer Aspect?

I tried the faster ramp one but it feels very ugh

I am using Dio attack build btw

[pastel tusk]

how would a aspect of chiron relentless volly crit build do

[olive badge]

tbh I would say bow special suit damage on hit more than scaling build

something like Dio or Zeus

Ares Attack + Dionysus Special

getting their Duo also makes it pretty sick

[olive badge]

so hey guys

...guys?

[void fjord]

lol

so for what bow or rail @olive badge

for lucifer aspect (though i barely run it) Flash fire is a good one

dont remember if flurry fire is compatible with lucifer aspect, but if it is that one is also good

now for my q lol

does arty attack on hera bow, also affect cast dmg?

(i assume not)

[bronze sorrel]

What are some hammer upgrades people think are good that actually suck when you look deeper at the mechanics?

I feel like that doesn't get discussed as much, and it's easy to not figure it out, with them not being accessable when you practice on Skelly. Im curious what stuff I might not know

[main osprey]

Delta Chamber feels good, but is a DPS drop for most builds

I wouldn't say it sucks though

[random hull]

I heard that Winged Serpent falls in that category, because it lengthens the time until the return of the Spear. Similar to Dread Flight.

[main osprey]

Winged Serpent doesn't prevent you from charging up another spin (you mean the extended spin distance/time, right?)

[random hull]

I only repeat hearsay, because I haven't played Guan Yu in ages.

[main osprey]

Last time I used Winged Serpent there was no such restriction

You might be thinking of the Shield hammer that increases the number of bounces

That one is worse, for that exact reason

[random hull]

Interesting! I will give it a chance next time I see it then.

Then there are Spinning Flare (or whatever it is called), and Repulse Shot - giving off pulses by charging in both cases. I couldn't make them work for me, but I have never heard anyone claim they're good either.

[main osprey]

Haven't used Rama enough to know about the second one, but can confirm the first one is usually bad

Again, not always, just usually ime

[random hull]

Are the spinning flare pulses affected by attack modifiers?

[main osprey]

I think the +4 bounces shield is the only hammer I will never take

Don't think so

[random hull]

Similar to Piercing Wave then? Which I personally found underwhelming; 25 damage isn't that much, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[main osprey]

Piercing Wave is actually alright, it's just a straight DPS buff, no downside

[void fjord]

the chain skewer on the spear is the exact thing where the spear bounces around a lot, even bouncing of walls instead of coming back to u

[random hull]

Right! And it also messes up aiming with the return strike.

[main osprey]

Chain skewer can work if you're using a purely special build, but it's definitely outclassed by explosive skewer

Or whatever it's called xD

[void fjord]

piercing wave is somrthing i take when im not intreseted in the other hammers

i think thats what its called lol

but yea

chain skewer was something i took with a ares apecial

so much doom on one click

[main osprey]

Chain skewer + sea Storm is good

[void fjord]

yas

[main osprey]

Though like all bouncing attacks, it falls off against bosses

[void fjord]

something with high fire rate is good for zeus boon

does arty attack on hera bow, also affect cast dmg?
Can someone answer this?

[random hull]

Generally, casts aren't affected by attack modifiers on Hera Bow.

[void fjord]

thank you, I thought so.

[bronze sorrel]

I learned earlier that double nova usually has its second hit cancel when you attack with the sword before it finishes its animation

[void fjord]

hmm didnt know that

cool

or not cool gameplay wise

[main osprey]

Alright, probably not gonna check in much more tonight. Dinner then hopefully sleep soon. Night y'all

[void fjord]

since it makes the hammer redundant

lol

gn

[bronze sorrel]

Night

[random hull]

Don't let the bedbugs bite

[bronze sorrel]

Ya, also learned that Shadow Slash doesn't apply on dash attacks

[void fjord]

WHHAT???

i thought it did

thats a sudden drop in dmg

omg

[bronze sorrel]

This was on Jawless Paul's channel, another streamer named wrist was teaching him for speed runs, and that was mentioned when he was looking at hammers

[void fjord]

i have to check this out

damn

[bronze sorrel]

Ya, I really want a video that just deep dives on hammer upgrades now.

Or some other form of guide

[void fjord]

i might do that, maybe record myself or smtg. its really interesting

ill use each weapon also

just need a seed starting with a hammer lol

[bronze sorrel]

This is why I always kinda wanted to have boons and hammers available for practice to toggle on amd off. There's just alot of mechanical stuff thats hard to learn mid run that makes a pretty substantial difference and can make the game alot less accessable.

One of the devs said it had been talked about but they felt it diminished the excitement of encountering hammers and boons in a run. Idk, I don't agree with that at all but I don't think it'll happen.

[void fjord]

like a traning room?

i see where the devs are coming from

but it wld be cool to see it as smtg after defeating redacted 100+ times

as ur used to the game after that many runs

[simple trail]

isnt theres a mod for hammers and boons

[main osprey]

Yes

[cunning urchin]

I don't have any trouble trying whatever build I want in a run. You'll get more meaningful data attempting a run with the build than using a training room or whatever, too.

Like, how reliable the build actually is. If you try 3 runs and can't get the build you want once, that tells you something important.

[bronze sorrel]

I mean more like mechanical stuff most people won't notice like the double nova thing

Like you might notice your dps isn't where you want it with double nova, but you wouldn't necessarily figure out you were cancelling alot of your damage by mashing.

Or I wouldn't anyhow

[cunning urchin]

Well, you can record your gameplay for things like that.

I just treat low heat like a training room, anyway, where I can research whatever I want with no pressure.

[bronze sorrel]

But like, wouldn't it be nice for it to be easier for new players to learn this stuff. I know you're an awesome 30+ heat player and all, but some people are struggling at zero heat to finish a run.

[cunning urchin]

Honestly, I don't expect the number of players who dive deep into these things to change meaningfully whether they add a training room feature for that or not.

[bronze sorrel]

And making the game more accessible means a bigger playerbase, more people to watch streams, etc.

I mean I definitely would. As I've mentioned before, I don't have the fastest reflexs (but I did finally get my Stonewhal!). So I rely pretty heavily on learning the game deeply enough to compensate for that to get anywhere.

[wise aspen]

so are certain boons / hammer upgrades rarer? (not talking about legendary / duos) because i swear I have never seen some of these hammer and chaos boons before that I need for prophecy

[static jacinth]

Just RNG.

[cunning urchin]

Some boons and hammer upgrades can't appear on certain aspects.

[wise aspen]

yeah Ive made sure im not using a conflicting aspect

[bronze sorrel]

Some boons are rarer. Specifically, if you haven't got strike, flourish, dash, cast and call it wants to give you those, and so everything else is a tad rarer

[static jacinth]

The Chaos legendary boon is pretty rare, sincei it's legendary, chaos rooms are somewhat rare, and you need another boon to even get it.

[bronze sorrel]

Also some boons have prereqs, for example, rush delivery or black metal

[static jacinth]

And there's a chaos boon that requires fiery presence.

[wise aspen]

yeah I know about the boon tree didn't know about the chaos boon thing tho have to check if thats the one im missing

[bronze sorrel]

Aside from what Nyaanyaa said about aspects, the hammers are just rng far as I'm aware.

[cunning urchin]

Some hammer upgrades can't be combined with certain other hammer upgrades.

[bronze sorrel]

Oh true

[wise aspen]

👍

[static jacinth]

And some Duos have stricter requirements like requiring a cast.

A specific one.

[bronze sorrel]

For the prophesy achievement, I think most of the hammers that don't work with the Zag aspect you need the fourth aspect of each weapon. Those ones each have a few unique hammers.

So ||Arthur, Guan Yu, Beowulf, Rama and Lucifer||

[cunning urchin]

@bronze sorrel and I dunno, I was doing lots of research well before I was doing any high heat stuff.

[static jacinth]

I don't think the prophecy has any hidden aspect hammers on it.

[bronze sorrel]

Oh is that right?

[cunning urchin]

I've just always treated every run as an experiment or practice.

[bronze sorrel]

I guess I had it done before hidden aspects were out

I've just always treated every run as an experiment or practice.
@cunning urchin

For sure, but like, wouldn't it be easier to learn stuff if you could just open practice and say test how mirage shot works with exit wounds, rather than having to hunt both boons down?

Like I have a friend I've been introducing to the game and they're still only sometimes getting past Meg.

And they said a big reason it was hard to get into is that alot of the mechanics are so unintuitive if you haven't playtested for months or scoured the wiki

[cunning urchin]

Hmmm. I think if you can't get past Meg, you need to work on more fundamental issues than the intricacies of Double Nova or how Mirage Shot works with Exit Wounds.

[olive badge]

Also uhhh

The bounce hammer is sick with the Beowulf shield imo

[half crater]

okay sidetrack but now i'm curious

how does mirage shot work with exit wounds?

[barren otter]

I'd imagine the bonus projectile doesn't lodge like a cast, just hits the enemy.

[turbid needle]

It doesn't.

[half crater]

okay yeah i thought it probably didn't

[cunning urchin]

@olive badge I don't like that one at all on Beowulf, personally.

Shield throw already has some issues with bouncing towards nothing in particular, and then you have no shield for Dragon Rush etc. That upgrade only exacerbates the problem.

[burnt obsidian]

I agree with Fred, a training room would be good. Crypt of the Necrodancer has that, where you can practice with weapons that you have picked up previously. You can also practice against infinitely spawning enemies, and practice against certain bosses in that game. It makes an individual player better able to test certain strategies without just googling stuff

It'd work for Hades with weapons and hammers / boons, I think (though not enemies or bosses). The excitement is still kept as you're using it in a run against real enemies, with all your other stuff. A test room would be pretty dull - just some stationary enemies, some moving ones, some grouped up etc. And that's all

[bronze sorrel]

I would find it hilarious though if you could get skelly to (badly) immitate various enemies in practice. I'm imagining him shuffling around holding the disco ball over his head pretending to be a soul catcher.

Whatever though, devs have already said it'll never happen. We can move on.

[unkempt pagoda]

imagine a world where chariots also spawned exalted souls

[half crater]

imagine a world where exalted souls spawned exalted souls

[reef galleon]

you can't beat elysium warriors spawning chariots

[warped bone]

despite her whole thing, demeter has no chill

[small stirrup]

ba dum tss

[main osprey]

Whatever though, devs have already said it'll never happen. We can move on.
@bronze sorrel Wait, when?

[bronze sorrel]

It was in one of the Q&As a while back. I can't remember who answered but they basically said it was talked about but they decided against it because they felt it would ruin the novelty of getting boons in the run.

its a bit of a bummer cause as is I feel skelly is pretty useless as is other than for funny dialogue and getting lucky tooth.

[warped bone]

Skelly: "Hey boyo, I heard that and I've got a bone to pick with you!"

[main osprey]

Oh, huh

[pastel tusk]

holy crap Crystal beam with piercing glare and cursed slash flurry strikes OP AF

[gray moon]

Having Skelly do more than just stand would be nice, indeed. As is, the only purpose he serves is letting you know how much damage the various attacks of your weapons can do.

[finite igloo]

hey friends, favorite flourishes for Rama?

i had thought zeus lightning but im not sure if the cooldown thing with the bolts would make it suck or not

[unkempt pagoda]

it only sucks on chiron bc chiron strikes way too fast

rama is fast but slow enough to benefit greatly, especially since it bounces

[finite igloo]

ah, wasn't sure if rama was too fast or no

fantastico

[unkempt pagoda]

thunder flourish's cooldown is basically moot on most weapons aside from chiron

[finite igloo]

tfw you got a chaos gate in a room with hammer in the next chamber

[static jacinth]

@toxic tusk The timer on the barge is calibrated for the last little bit as well. So it would get shorter to compensate and you'd still miss out on it either way.

[half crater]

i think the idea is that it feels better to lose while killing the last enemy than while standing still and waiting, unable to do anything

i am allergic to speedrunning tho, so no skin off my nose either way 😛

[toxic tusk]

@static jacinth that helps a bit. But even if it slows down (don't know how much, but I didn't see much difference), I don't think it should continue.

[static jacinth]

I'm saying it'll be the same either way.

You won't get more lambent procs than before.

[toxic tusk]

Hmmm, that seems about right. Even so, I rather they didn't give that extra time and just simply stop when the fight ends. It would feel more natural

[finite igloo]

Asterius fight is the same way but much more problematic

The Plume Timer ends when Asterius leaves the chamber, but it is generous and gives you a lot of extra time it seems

HOWEVER, I have had Asterius die in a weird spot and get stuck for about 15-20 seconds before he just walked throuh the wall

I think i was using the blade rift vacuum boon and it tugged him into a weird spot during his defeat animation

[bright prawn]

Anyone have some builds to try out with the Rail's hidden aspect? I've found it underwhelming so far. The setup is somewhat difficult to maximize damage and without it the Rail just seems to have terrible DPS.

[unkempt pagoda]

have you tried thunder strike yet

[glass rapids]

zeus attack with smoldering air charges the call really fast, a call-based build is pretty decent

thunder strike is sufficient dps on lower heat

[bright prawn]

Is there some sort of essential Hammer upgrade I'm missing to make the Special easier to set up/more rewarding?

[unkempt pagoda]

triple bomb, basically

[glass rapids]

only triple bomb makes using special worthwhile

[unkempt pagoda]

lets you get all three bombs out in reasonable time

[glass rapids]

another thing i found was using the special radiating doom in a larger area to use merciful end with attack

which is hard to set up

[unkempt pagoda]

if you're me, you're also putting on hazard bomb to get the big boy numbers

[cunning urchin]

If you have Lightning Strike, building God Gauge isn't an issue anyway because you can get Smoldering Air so easily.

Lightning Flourish on rail 4 supposedly self-ignites the orb when enemies come close. That might be something you can make good use of if you want to focus on the Special.

[pastel tusk]

Backstab Arthur does a lot of damage early on

[cunning urchin]

And later on.

[pastel tusk]

yeah it does i was backstabbing redacted for 1400 on the 3rd swing

also what are to good casts for Hera bow

[dire wedge]

crowd favorites are the ones that go boom like poseidon's or dio's

[cloud hemlock]

Does Aphro fit in there too? I feel like her shotgun effect means you can just get them back immediately

[dire wedge]

crush shot is finicky, sometimes it doesn't hit the target and only those behind them

you need to release your shot just before the intended target

[cloud hemlock]

That makes sense! I enjoy it, but I can definitely see that being much more niche

[dry ember]

Give us old Crush Shot

[delicate sundial]

so in the end boss fight with ||hades||, does anyone know what the shield will and won't block?

i was either trying to block at bad angles or stuff was getting through that maybe shouldn't have

[main osprey]

the shield should block everything, though I'm not 100% sure if it consistently blocks his lunge attack

[delicate sundial]

yeah it felt like when i was close up and he did his projectile it didn't work either

i'll have to give it another try, thanks!

[main osprey]

yeah, even point-blank you should still block the skull

[spark lotus]

he probably was a bit to the side from the direction you were blocking

I once got Charged Shot, stood in some corner near gates of the Temple and just blocked everything while farting at him with my unbooned Bull Rush

Btw shield is too OP

[delicate sundial]

it's the only way i'm going to do 32 heat i think

[static jacinth]

Is it a good idea to get Deadly Shot on Zag aspect bow?

Or is it a hat on a hat, not worth it situation?

[young ether]

https://ibb.co/dkprL7Y