ugh so many choices
#h1-builds-and-combat
cinder flower
forest marsh
(for the first empowered shot)
serene isle
If you're in the market for literally just clearing the game mindlessly with the least amount of effort
Chaos Shield is /basically/ still broken
LOL
forest marsh
One important thing to keep in mind, all of the Zagreus aspects only take 5 Titan Blood to max out
All other aspects take about 15
serene isle
Zag aspects are the cheapest to max for sure.
cinder flower
What aspect for shield?>
serene isle
Chaos Aspect
forest marsh
Chaos or Zeus
cunning urchin
They're between 15 and 16 Titan Blood exactly.
serene isle
Chaos Aspect is probably one of the most damaging aspects in the game and it's relatively easy to "grok". Finally, it's shield, so it's super safe/easy
forest marsh
Chaos takes more investment than Zeus to see immediate results on shield
cinder flower
yeah i have 6 blood
forest marsh
Zeus does work right off the start
forest marsh
It's a good aspect (and I don't like sword)
serene isle
Even level 1 Nemesis sword is chef kiss good
stoic thicket
With just 6 blood my suggestion would be Zag fists.
serene isle
Zag fists are also really good
cinder flower
so much information ..
forest marsh
Again, and I can't reiterate this enough. There is no right answer. Do what you think sounds fun
serene isle
15% free dodge chance and 15% free attack speed is basically 2 free Hermes boons
cinder flower
what aspect for fist
forest marsh
Demeter or Zag
serene isle
I really prefer Talos for Zag
But that's because hookshots are amazingly fun to execute
forest marsh
Demeter does require heavy investment
serene isle
(and like wight is saying, really it boils down to what is fun for you)
inner heath
Zagreus fists are still my favorite aspect in the game
cinder flower
so starting out maxing out zag fist is a good way to go
forest marsh
Yes
inner heath
Definitely
There's no bad way to go, but that's what I think most would call a safe way to go
Because it's maximum value for minimum blood
forest marsh
Bad way to go is base Guan Yu
inner heath
^ probably agreed, but I'm discounting 4th aspects because those probably aren't unlocked yet
forest marsh
True
cunning urchin
Malphon's Zagreus Aspect will easily net you the Titan Blood for the other two aspects, so it's just very efficient. I've done 20 heat with it with literally just Divine Strike and no other boons for the whole run.
forest marsh
Dodge chance is very powerful
inner heath
I really gotta start doing heat again...but god there's just so much darkness and codex to farm still
cunning urchin
Well, it's really that Divine Strike on Malphon is so powerful. Could probably do the same without leveling Malphon at all to be honest.
forest marsh
Yeah
neon bramble
I just had the most improbable start to another run on Peach's challenge.
First boon - common true shot
Go to Erebus for a Zeus boon
Zeus replaces true shot with rare electric shot
Miniboss room for Demeter
Demeter replaces electric shot with epic crystal beam
Last shop, I buy Athena
Athena replaces with heroic phalanx shot.
I quit.
inner heath
If it's any consolation, I decided to try and fight the new optional boss with only an attack boon...and a Chaos curse on said attack.
it did not go well
forest marsh
Oh no
inner heath
I got very close
cunning urchin
You'll get Darkness and all that naturally while going up in heat, and you don't need your mirror maxed out to do high heat. I did 41 with "only" 3 Persuasion rerolls instead of the maxed-out 4.
inner heath
I was farming on 5 heat. Still need those codex entries for the loyalty card
forest marsh
I've mostly only ran FA, is FP really that good?
inner heath
It's less about darkness and more about codex and story progression. I like running through the whole thing quickly to get all the codex entries because I'm weird like that. Still trying to hit up Erebus like 10 more times for that entry to complete. Darkness is just another boon in the end. Also, gemstones. Still need more gemstones. but I'm stupidly addicted to filling out the codex
forest marsh
Aside from Peach's challenge last week, I hadn't used FP more than maybe once when it was introduced
cunning urchin
It's strong. FA always felt incredibly underwhelming the few times I used it.
But there are some people who swear by FA.
neon bramble
Also... You'll start to notice that specific god boons only reroll a short list of 2-3 other gods
Which is annoying
inner heath
Personally, I like FA until you start narrowing your through RI or AP pacts
forest marsh
Fair
inner heath
But it depends on the aspect I'm running. if I feel like I'm going for a duo to win, FA is nice to ensure I can get the god I need. If I can win off of, say, divine strike alone, then FP
forest marsh
FP probably gets more benefit if your only source of rolls is from key pickups
inner heath
For example, Hera bow can win off Artemis cast alone, so I'd probably run FP there, especially when hunting for her legendary
cunning urchin
Persuasion and a keepsake make sure you start out in Tartarus with a good core boon for your primary source of damage. And that's often all that matters for the rest of the run.
forest marsh
I'm at the point of choosing if I'm grinding for FP 4 or FA 9
Though still a ways out and I'm not actually grinding darkness
neon bramble
What I've found is that the game (for the most part) tries to offer you a pretty defined build path off the first boon you grab
inner heath
Mirror resets are super cheap, remember
forest marsh
Yeah
neon bramble
Every once in a while it goes Yahtzee though
forest marsh
It's not like I'm short on keys...
serene isle
Sorry. What's FA and FP
neon bramble
So that's why I stopped using FA
forest marsh
Fated Authority/Persuasion
serene isle
AH
The rerolls
Honestly I've been living my hades life without them because I dont really go high heat strats
forest marsh
Neither do I, but they're fun
inner heath
FA = rooms FB = boon choices, if you forget which is which
serene isle
Thanks
forest marsh
My highest heat cleared on the new heat system is 15 (though I have the statue from the old system for 60 heat)
inner heath
Yeah, they're definitely not necessary for playing the game normally.
They're just nice to have later to mitigate RNG
forest marsh
Definitely
serene isle
I think mine was 21 heat with Guan Yu spear
cunning urchin
Persuasion also lets you reroll Wells of Charon and Pools of Purging.
serene isle
Also RNG is becoming less and less a factor now that I have my husband Sisyphus' keepsake
forest marsh
I don't understand how people get fast clears with Guan Yu. I must be doing something inefficiently
inner heath
I still haven't even tried to go above 16 because Codex. Soon I will have it completed. Like 10 more runs
cunning urchin
You can buy a Kiss of Styx, reroll, and buy another Kiss of Styx.
dry ember
With a good special build you can one shot most things
serene isle
Yeah that's how I got my 21 heat with GY spear
inner heath
Wait, does that stack HP nyaanyaa?
forest marsh
So building into Special is the key for Guan Yu? I've always focused spin/attack
dry ember
You can buy a Kiss of Styx, reroll, and buy another Kiss of Styx.
Are we playing the same game?
mighty ermine
yeah, you typically don't do the full attack combo with GY much
dry ember
I never get offered anything good in shop
neon bramble
@forest marsh just get charged skewer on GY and it'll all make sense
serene isle
Yeah you dash attack and then you special
mighty ermine
spin is alright but special focus is still mostly king
inner heath
I've always built special ON GY
forest marsh
I'll keep that in mind
serene isle
The only reason to spin is to heal off easy mobs when you take damage
forest marsh
I haven't been able to run TD with GY but that's because I have been using it as spin-to-win
serene isle
But I will admit when I used to get the triple dash attack hammer upgrade on GY spear
the run went off the rails
Each dash attack is like 200 damage or whatever
mighty ermine
serrated point is a very viable option for fast GY runs too, yep
serene isle
LOL
serene isle
Yup
forest marsh
It is good, it's just slow
cunning urchin
That Doomstone did not die slowly.
inner heath
Gimme your best sword builds. I still feel like it's my weakest weapon
serene isle
@dry ember Did you get any other boons? Or was this just a rare artemis attack
forest marsh
World Splitter crit build, probably
mighty ermine
fox you got really close to some nyaa acknowledgement
dry ember
Massive Spin and Rare Artemis
serene isle
Dang
cunning urchin
best sword builds
Heartbreak Strike.
neon bramble
Stygian blender is probably the easiest build overall for those who have trouble with the sword
Flurry slash + whatever you want on attack
Ideally Athena
serene isle
@inner heath Nemesis Aspect + Any Attack boon with 80% bonus damage (or just new Sisyphus). Special -> Dash attacks/combo. A literally consistent set-up that's ALWAYS available early game that deals massive damage, especially when paired with Bonus Damage to targets with casts in them and backstab
forest marsh
Flurry slash + Athena is fun
inner heath
Last thing I ran was Deadly Reversal on Nemesis (Athena Attack, Artemis Dash, and Shadow Strike or whatever it's called hammer upgrade) but it just...didn't feel that great? It melted Hades but kinda sucked at room clears
neon bramble
Then you get artemis dash strike and go for deadly reversal. Game over.
inner heath
^ ha
serene isle
Oh yeah
The good thing about the build I posted is if you get a bunch of other support boons
Artemis Dash
Hoarding Slash
forest marsh
I really want the Hoarding mechanic on all weapons
neon bramble
If you're lucky enough to be offered cursed slash after flurry slash, you're basically immortal with the sword
serene isle
(Bte is it ok to post vids here to "prove a point" in a convo or is that not ok)
I don't wanna get banned LOL
forest marsh
I mean... Fox just did
inner heath
Yeah... I haven't gotten any of those hammer upgrades the last few times
cunning urchin
Deadly Reversal is overrated, and I get Deadly Reversal on most of my runs.
neon bramble
It is, especially on nemesis aspect
Because you can enable Crit without it on nemesis
inner heath
^ That's how I felt. Even with lots of backstab off of exposed + shadow slash, it didn't feel too great to run
I mean it worked, but I just felt like I could've had a better build doing something else
serene isle
Reversal isn't too great when you're already doing nemesis
inner heath
Does it no stack chance?
neon bramble
Yeah, but you don't need it
inner heath
I mean, it's a double-dip, so probably less efficient anyway
dry ember
(Bte is it ok to post vids here to "prove a point" in a convo or is that not ok)
I asked a mod and they said as long as it's relevant and not done in a spammy, self advertising manner, you can do it. Other wise #self-promotion
Tldr don't abuse it.
neon bramble
Heart rend is insane on nemesis with ahprodite attack
serene isle
Thanks for the clarification
neon bramble
That's my preferred build
serene isle
But I think the point here is that if you're running Nemesis Sword + Sisyphus keepsake, you actually have a LOT of free room to get all sorts random support-related boons since your damage is MOSTLY taken care of in the early and mid game.
https://youtu.be/m9h31I6bjag (fair warning: spoiler for final boss)
This run wasn't high heat or anything but shows just how flexible you can be when you're not exactly beholden to the game giving you the right attack/special/cast boons for your DPS source.
cunning urchin
Deadly Reversal gives you crits only some of the time because you need to actually deflect something for it to proc. In many rooms you barely get it to proc at all. It's best effect is actually that all your deflects will crit 20% of the time, all of them, and that combos incredibly well with Brilliant Riposte.
forest marsh
That's why I like Deadly Reversal in Elysium and Styx, because there are almost always things to deflect
dry ember
20% is still twice that of Zag Bow
inner heath
Yeah, I actually had the brilliant riposte too, and that was fun as like a...trying something new way to play, but not a way I'd prefer to play overall
Though deflecting those casts back at hades for massive damage is nice
cunning urchin
Adding more crit chance when you already have crit chance does less than adding crit chance when you had zero before—relative to other options.
serene isle
Yeah. I guess I just jive with sword since it's literally the most face-roll weapon.
inner heath
Hmm, I got some things to try in the future, that's for sure.
Heart rend seems like a solid choice. I could always try playing Excalibur more too. And I can look into Sisyphus builds, but that seems less ideal and more for fun sometime
neon bramble
Another ridiculous nemesis build is flurry + Zeus
If you get swift attack it's instant room clear
I had that + support fire + piercing wave once
inner heath
I can try that too if I run into the option. I tend not to make builds toward hammer boons though, as the lack of rerolls there makes it challenging
forest marsh
That's really any fast attack and Zeus though
inner heath
Hell, you could probably Merciful End with Flurry too
serene isle
I think Sisyphus is definitely a "not crazy" build since he's just a numbers run. But he does provide a level of consistency that I enjoy very much
forest marsh
It's a very good starting keepsake
serene isle
Yup. Basically start with it then swap it out when you find something better
forest marsh
I don't know if I'd keep it past Asphodel though
serene isle
And if you DON'T find something better, keep him
inner heath
Yeah, that's probably how I'd run it. Swap soon as I find something there. I'm kinda surprised you took it to Hades
serene isle
I keep it past asphodel if the game literally doesn't give me the right boons.
dry ember
I swap because Acorn is necessary for me on Hades fight
forest marsh
High heat?
serene isle
@inner heath the game was throwing a bunch of Ares/Athena boons my way. And I'm running nemesis sword.
cunning urchin
I'd rather start with the Chthonic Coin Purse if I don't want to force a god for some reason. That actually affects the rest of the run.
Or Cosmic Egg.
serene isle
Yeah. I probably need to level the other keepsakes.
forest marsh
I've never seen the use of Acorn unless running punishing pact options/glass cannon build
inner heath
Wait Cosmic Egg? I don't even use that on no/low heat. I'm surprised with that one
serene isle
Don't get me wrong. I don't think that Sisyphus keepsake is broken strong or anything
dry ember
High heat?
Yes but also in general, I'm really bad at that fight xD. I have lost a plenty sub 20 runs at Hades 😩
serene isle
I just love the consistency
forest marsh
I like Cosmic Egg for fun runs
serene isle
If we're going for pure optimals, purse, a specific forced god, or egg are probably better if you're flexible and roll with what the game gives you
But I am unga bunga and want only big crits on my sharp stick
cunning urchin
Well, on low heat taking some damage when entering Chaos Gates doesn't really matter all that much.
inner heath
I can see the not taking damage great for LC4. And rarity is always nice. but when you don't even know if you'll find chaos and it still has boon downsides...just seems risky to run over something that will guarantee a net positive
serene isle
Oh yeah what's everyone's verdict on Stubborn Defiance VS Default Defiance
forest marsh
I still wish 
guaranteed one gate like the god boons force a god spawn
inner heath
^ That would make me understand that keepsake a lot more
cunning urchin
It still matters because you start the next fight with less HP, which can go wrong easily.
inner heath
Also, default for low heat, stubborn for high
raw violet
unless your 30% is less than the amouunt required for a chaos gate, then it kind of matters
dry ember
I think Stubborn is better for more skilled players
Lol I take SD because I'm bad, I take hits so I want free heal xD then proceed to die at bosses
All is well
serene isle
lol
inner heath
I don't think that's bad I think that's good strategy. Except the dying part.
serene isle
Yeah I think I can't finish the game with SD's
forest marsh
I usually only lose DDs at bosses though, so stubborn is a handicap in that regard (for me)
forest marsh
Chances are if I lose one I will lose more than one
It's very much all-or-nothing on my runs
dry ember
Yeah Alecto, Elysium boss, and Hades are my biggest chokes
serene isle
Also, is there a manipulation to Dad's boss pattern
cunning urchin
I usually only lose DDs at bosses though
Have you tried hitting them back? :hypnos:
serene isle
I sometimes get patterns where he never spins. Or never throws his cast.
forest marsh
Thanks Hypnos 
serene isle
There was a pattern in phase 2 where he never summoned the jars?
because if we find some way to manip his fight pattern
That'd be rad
forest marsh
Mostly it's just EM3 Heroes and Dad that will take a DD if anything does
inner heath
Yeah, at my sub-20 heat I always take DD as I usually never need more than 1 throughout a whole run and that one is on Hades or Charon, if used at all. I predict above 20 that will not be the case and I'll swap to SD
serene isle
I also experienced some weird Heroes of Elysium fight patterns
forest marsh
He's really weird with his casts... sometimes I notice he only does one, other times he'll spam 3
serene isle
where Asterius literally stood next to me for 10 seconds doing nothing
Which was weird.
forest marsh
I don't understand why the difference
serene isle
If we can somehow find a manip, that'd be cool
inner heath
Except that one time I fought Charon with no boons and a chaos curse on attack. That time I probably needed 5+DDs to win because I still suck at that fight.
forest marsh
Charon has so much health if you don't have something that does work
inner heath
I always think the Oar is shorter than it really is, and his hand wave attack is too fast for me to recognize so far
I was testing the waters, okay, I wanted to see if it was possible
it probably is once I fight him more
forest marsh
If I'm not deleting enemies (or have a deflect boon) I just don't even consider Charon fight
inner heath
I got him down to like 25% HP. he was close to that last damage gate
Oh, normally I wouldn't take it in any serious run
But I need like 4 more loyalty cards for the codex
so I took the risk
The things I'll do for the codex...
forest marsh
Like get hit repeatedly in Erebus? 
forest marsh
I still don't have the last entry because it hurts me
unkempt pagoda
i got the onions entry filled out naturally
forest marsh
I ground it out to the last entry, saw the 15 required and gave up
inner heath
I'll 100% be save scumming fishing in Chaos' realm once I find a fishing spot there again. Just to make sure I get the right fish and not one I already have completed
Yeah, I definitely threw 90% of those erebus runs to get that filled out
forest marsh
I'm reasonably certain they protected against save-scum fishing points when fishing was introduced
inner heath
...that would suck
but I will try it nonetheless
Worth attempting because I'm not waiting a .0001% chance again if I get the wrong fish
forest marsh
I just went on a rant about the Chaos fish spawn chance the other day... hopefully it gets adjusted
inner heath
I was hoping it would've been adjusted for Blood Price, tbh 😕
dry ember
They did
forest marsh
I don't care if the in-Chaos spawn chance gets lowered from 15% to like, 5 or 10%, just make it independent of the rest of the run's spawn chance so that a spawn in the run doesn't negate a spawn in Chaos
dry ember
You have the fish lure now
inner heath
Oh
That...doesn't effect Chaos fish natural spawn chance though
Which is 1% but only if you haven't had a fishing spot in the last 10 rooms, iirc
dry ember
No, but it gives you more chance for chaos fish
inner heath
It does, but you essentially have to get the lure for sale while there's a chaos gate in the room
So you need a well + chaos + maybe rerolls
turbid needle
Is there like a beginner's guide of sorts in this game?
inner heath
Otherwise, you're gambling that the next room won't have a place where the fishing spot can appear and the next place will have a chaos gate. And that's a bad gamble, IMO
unkempt pagoda
the game does a pretty good job of explaining itself imo
inner heath
Not really, Fuego? I mean, probably on youtube? Wiki has a lot of information too. If you're looking for general tips, I'm sure a lot of us have advice we'd give out in a second. What's on your mind?
unkempt pagoda
if you don't know what a resource does, just hold on to it and keep playing
turbid needle
I was just thinking about maybe some tips as to what boons to look out for as X weapon and such
basically pointers
dry ember
Well I might be of help
inner heath
Ahhh, build pointers.
serene isle
Sounds like something the chat can help with
dry ember
I can give some cookie cutter builds
dry ember
You can experiment more later.
turbid needle
Nice
inner heath
What weapon(s) + aspect(s) do you currently like running?
We can try to give builds specific for those
serene isle
I think more fundamental to that is an understanding of the weapon's different properties right.
And in that fundamental understanding, you get to know what boons to look for
Because yeah the aspects basically "key in" a lot of what you should look for
turbid needle
I'm really liking the Railgun with the reload empower or the triple bomb aspects. And I was thinking about unlocking the fists to check them out
inner heath
Fists are my favorite weapon, especially the default ones
If you get Merciful End (Ares Attack, Athena Dash, then their duo) that's a free win up until heat 20 or so
turbid needle
oh wow
dry ember
Hestia Rail you can look for Deadly Strike. Shoot once reload repeat. That's all you need, really. Make sure you have the rail well upgraded. Otherwise it's fairly underwhelming.
inner heath
For railgun with reload aspect, Artemis is solid on attack, and you can use Thanatos Keepsake if you want to pump out more damage. Or Meg's if you're okay being low HP. But really anything can do.
Theoretically with Hestia Rail, it's actually more beneficial to get Aphrodite attack, Artemis dash, and Heart Rend (their duo)
As it's more consistent damage
But it's very comparable
turbid needle
Hmmm, I see
inner heath
But yes, Deadly Strike (Artemis) is solid. Then look for more artemis that increase crit damage, crit chance, etc.
That alone should be great. You can also get Athena dash and look for Deadly Reversal (their duo boon) for even more crit chance. Also Athena dash is just the best defensive dash
turbid needle
Yeah, I really liked athena dash and poseidon. They have such a great utility value to them
inner heath
Agreed! nice
serene isle
Well, so for example, the Rail is a ranged weapon with low base attack damage, but really fast fire rate. It's attack doesn't stun enemies (it doesn't cancel their attack animations). It's special is slow but hits from afar in a large area with decent base damage (it's 60).
The rail generally wants to play keepaway while kiting enemies.
With that in mind, boons that scale really well with multiple procs (stacking poison with Dio, stacking chill with demeter, and throwing tons of lightning bolts with Zeus). The special has decently high base power, meaning that percentage scaling is really good with it (think Aphrodite's high bonus damage). but it's also a good keepaway tool if you add some effects on it (like knockback from Poseidon).
But as people have shown, aspects transform what you want to do
inner heath
unfortunately, hestia rail seems kinda bugged at the moment? Not sure if it's a bug, but many people have noticed that the reload action is inconsistent at the moment. (It's been posted in feedback.) So if you're brand new to the game and that's bothering you, hopefully that'll be fixed.
serene isle
Empowered Reload aspect plays more like a sniper and so percentage damage on attack gets better
turbid needle
My best run so far was with zeus attack boon, got me up to Temple of Styx, but the poison rekt me there lol
inner heath
So, there's actually a keepsake that might help you out a lot there if you're having trouble in Styx with poison
serene isle
Is it broken spearpoint
inner heath
It's the ||Broken Spearpoint|| that you get from ||Patroclus in Elysium||. What it does is ||when maxed, after you take damage you become invincible for 1.5s and goes on a 7s cooldown||
Yeah, it also stops poison for that time and allows you to get to the cure stations easily
turbid needle
Wow! That sounds OP
serene isle
Another "easy" answer is to just force athena and annoy her until she gives you her "revenge' boon
LOL
inner heath
It's a very good defensive keepsake for your entire run, and I would argue never a bad pick
serene isle
Since it makes you invulnerable to damage for a short time after taking a hit
abstract urchin
what's a decent bow build, I have chiron(?) unlocked
abstract urchin
just 1 lol
inner heath
I personally love the Hera aspect on the bow, but I am probably in the minority there
turbid needle
I still only have the 1st row unlocked and like the zeus ring, so I tend to run with the extra HP or extra revive ones
serene isle
If it's not maxed, there's no point in using it
abstract urchin
anything good for zag then?
serene isle
Decent bow builds are usually focused on making your powershots basically one-shot enemies
inner heath
Those are also good, Fuego. HP and Death Defiances keep you alive longer. Totally good picks too.
turbid needle
Also, thank you all for the answers and explanations. I printed the pointers to the builds here to keep an eye out for them on my next runs
Much appreciated ❤️
serene isle
Aphro with the attack hammers basically lets you deal like 500 damage per powershot
LOL
abstract urchin
ok nice
inner heath
You're welcome, Fuego! Post your next victory in the #h1-victory-boasting for us!
serene isle
Also, bow doesn't get to backstab very often
turbid needle
Will do! Ty ty
serene isle
So going for the mirror that makes you deal more damage to undamaged enemies works, too
inner heath
Hera bow + Artemis cast is solid. Get Chaos and Artemis as much as possible. If you can get more casts or cast damage you can one-shot a lot of things, even boss damage gates
That's my favorite bow build, but once again, probably in the minority there
dry ember
Yeah. You probably are haha.
Most people go Trippy Flare with Hera Bow
Tried and true
small stirrup
I hear someone praising Artemis
dry ember
About as cookie cutter as it gets.
small stirrup
Who has joined the Arty is best girl club
inner heath
To be fair, I also ran that build back when she had dual shot
I remember having 8+ casts and just one-shoting every damage gate on the final boss
serene isle
Friendship with Artemis over. Nemesis is my run starter now.
I remember having 8+ casts and just one-shoting every damage gate on the final boss
OOOF.
dry ember
How dare yoy
inner heath
I mean, back then it was...crit cast, crit damage, exit wounds, dual shot, +3 casts on legendary + whatever chaos gave me
clear dome
How to not get hit by tiny vermin
inner heath
TLC, you're a good person
rare topaz
Thank you.
serene isle
Be a man. Take the hits. Let it fuel your hatred.
rare topaz
Be a man
:/
dry ember
How to not get hit by tiny vermin
Just dash around? There is not a lot you can do.
clear dome
i am not a man, im a mouse
dry ember
If the rat haven't attacked recently, get ready to dodge
vague hearth
Keeping your distance helps
rare topaz
@clear dome Quite a few ways to deal with this! Some specials deal with them quite effectively. If you have Poseidon Dash, or Athena, or even Dionysus, they also deal with the tiny vermin quite effectively.
serene isle
i am not a man, im a mouse
@clear dome This presents a conundrum.
inner heath
I'm fairly positive that the visual purple animation for him unburrowing is new? So look for that. At least, I never noticed it before. Keep your distance if you're not melee and use the gap in the room to your advantage
rare topaz
And of course, if your weapon can attack widely, that's valid too.
inner heath
Otherwise, yeah, he's going to hit you a lot
dry ember
If you have FO2 and TD2 on, pray that your DPS is enough
clear dome
bloody jesus, if i have a good build i would not run into him....
untold vortex
Keeping your distance helps
Cries in malphon
rare topaz
It's not new, I've seen the tiny vermin burrowing out before.
serene isle
Obviously you CAST and run away
vague hearth
Make the most of your quick attacks
inner heath
Psh, Malphon has dodge chance you're good
rare topaz
It depends on the Crit though.
serene isle
Yeah I think at the end of the day, my advice actually boils down to "damage race the thing"
vague hearth
And make the most of any openings you get
rare topaz
Cast...
inner heath
Merciful End him no need to worry about damage
clear dome
Poop your pants and cry is the only valid tactic for him tbh
serene isle
Sounds right
rare topaz
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE LIL RATS OR THE BIG BOI LIL RAT
dry ember
Sometimes I wish you can bomb out of rooms in Hades like you can in Isaac
Tiny Vermin?
Nope
I'm out
serene isle
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE LIL RATS OR THE BIG BOI LIL RAT
@rare topaz The mini-boss little rat.
inner heath
Neither. We're talking about the little rat miniboss
rare topaz
Big Boi lil rat.
inner heath
Pretty much, yes
rare topaz
Gotcha.
dry ember
Just call it however you want xD
vague hearth
Ratlet
rare topaz
The way I view that boss is literally just a DPS race. Its difficulty directly correlates to the strength of your build.
rare topaz
I've had runs where Big Boi Lil Rat has nearly killed me, and others where I practically one shot it.
vague hearth
Lernie and the diamond
serene isle
But yeah. so damage racing and face tanking it are my only advice
rare topaz
Yeah.
serene isle
Until then I actively avoid all the miniboss rooms on styx
because the risk is too great
LOL
rare topaz
Pfff
vague hearth
I live for miniboss fights
rare topaz
I often try to go into all the rooms for the memes
vague hearth
Except butterflies and the stalker
dry ember
I actually prioritize mini bosses in Styx
vague hearth
They suck
untold vortex
I now want someone to do a cover of "lucy in the sky with diamonds" but replace Lucy with Lernie
rare topaz
Ooh
dry ember
You can kill them quickly with companion summons
rare topaz
Why's your name Chaaaaaaaron Aggy?
dry ember
The only exception is Tiny Vermin
untold vortex
Why not :3
inner heath
omfg, visually I love the new companion
rare topaz
Good point
dry ember
But its spawn ratt is low
inner heath
Definitely doesn't seem to be the strongest, but the animations and art are just :chefskiss:
rare topaz
I can't wait to get a companion
dry ember
I love the name Aggy
untold vortex
I need to get my butt into gear and actually comission an artist for a pfp idea
dry ember
Very clever
untold vortex
It was Peaches idea 
rare topaz
But not the true heartbreaker.
untold vortex
The idea is aron cosplaying as Charon :3
clear dome
ppokemon?
untold vortex
rare topaz
clear dome
how to get the charon poster tho
rare topaz
Honestly same
dry ember
About to type that
rare topaz
My custom status is always the Pride flag xD
inner heath
On the bright side, new critters to catch in Animal Crossing
rare topaz
I don't have Animal Crossing
dry ember
Hestia Rail is a confused bow
inner heath
Hestia Rail is fun
rare topaz
I refuse to unlock Hestia
dry ember
I hope she figure out that she is not a rail but a biw soon
inner heath
I really really dislike it's buggy reload this patch though
Absolutely infuriates me
dry ember
Really? It works perfectly fine to me
clear dome
you mean in-Fury-ate
dry ember
Ayy
inner heath
Not to me. And others have posted on it in the feedback channel
Sometimes you're pressing reload like 5 times before it actually reloads
rare topaz
... Why do people even play with Hestia though? Literally just.. Constant reloads.. For one shot..
inner heath
Just completely inconsistent, and it wasn't like that in previous patches
because I like seeing the one big damage number and not seeing the thing I clicked on
it pleases me
dry ember
Because that 150 base damage goes brrrrrrr
rare topaz
Fiery Presence + Family Favourite and all that and then sink as much as I can into Artemis. Hera ofc.
dry ember
Imagine that bow has 40 base damage foe dash strike
In the same time you get 150 for hestia rail
rare topaz
I just feel like I won't like it ;~;
dry ember
Gotta work hard for that damage bro
rare topaz
Pfft
Oh, in other news.
Beo. Very fun. I think Beo shield might just be my favourite out of the new aspects, but I haven't given Rama and Lucifer a fair shake yet.
In fact I didn't enjoy Lucifer at all. The beam is fine but the special, which has so much strength, is just so awkward.
clear dome
i like Lucy, but Rama, ooooooohhhhhhh boy i hate it, cuz the multishot is too weak and the attack too slow
inner heath
I am also in the hate Rama club
And I'm indifferent on Lucy
I just think the auto-aim with Lucy is a little iffy right now, and I have to disable it with m+kb if i want to hit the hellfires conssitently
rare topaz
Fair
I don't think I'll actually end up liking Lucy unfortunately, as much as I want to. Rama I think I'll enjoy. Beo though, I already know I enjoy that shield. I'm already a fan of cast builds, and Beo is just an aspect for cast builds really.
I also enjoy how heavy-hitting it is and the impact of everything you do with it.
It's just
Mmmm
inner heath
I need to try Beo again
Did it once to get it to the surface, gotta give it another shot
clear dome
i hate cast build, but somehow Beo is good
rare topaz
You should, it's a lot of fun.
Building around crit is pretty viable with it too actually
rare kayak
i treat rama more like a gun
dont like beo though, never been a fan of cast loading
call me boring but i like chaos shield just because the multiple bouncing shields is fun to see
civic barn
chaos shield is at the very least more exciting than zeus, the reliable old loaf 🙂
neon bramble
@rare topaz Beo does have a special attack build that relies on hammers, if you ever feel like changing it up.
You can really only do it if the first hammer takes you in that direction though
Dash flight + charged flight and any +damage boon
rare topaz
@neon bramble Fair enough! Cheers.
I'm a fan of cast builds so I don't think I'll get bored very soon, but that sounds like fun.
rare kayak
ive only used rama twice but i got dionysus special and zeus special
both work very well with rama
neon bramble
It'll chunk bosses for 3-6k just like Arthur aspect
civic barn
zeus is like somewhere in between zag and chaos in terms of damage and survivability; you can still bullrush while the shield is on special, but I think it'd be hardpressed to actually do more damage on average than chaos
i prefer it because when i play shield i care more about blocking anyways, but i do see why chaos is more popular
rare topaz
Fair enough. I'll try to build around Zeus sometime.
civic barn
anyone have a good idea how infernal bomb toss (specifically the chaos induced ones) works? sometimes I can tell they're tossed in the direction you are/were at during a certain timeframe, within a certain distance
but i also see some of them get tossed in some really weird directions
and i'm not sure how those happen
cunning urchin
You probably deflect them.
turbid needle
I think they aim generally in your way but if theres any obstacle they just go anywhere
mild briar
what 2nd olympian did i have to take to get a change at the dionsyus DOTs deal damage faster duo trait?
i cant find the duo in the wiki 😦
unkempt pagoda
ares
mild briar
thanks!
There isnt anything else to getting duos than having a boon of both gods and then praying to rngesus, right? 🙂
(and the +chance for duos and legendary mirror trait ofc)
unkempt pagoda
basically. though some duos require specific boons (like ice wine specifically requiring trippy shot)
for ares/dio it's just two core boons though
civic barn
You probably deflect them.
@cunning urchin I wasn't close to them though
and there wasn't a text indicator
mild briar
thank you 🙂 im currently at the point at which i comfortably get to hades every run, but died at hades every run except one. Although one run i had the fast sword attacks + 2 lifesteal every sword hit with demeter attack and still failed because i was stupid and should have won 😅
civic barn
hm maybe it bounced off a corner instantly and I just didn't notice then, like Toffel said
mild briar
so im trying to up my game knowledge to get strong runs to beat hades more often, finally
civic barn
repeating is a very essential part of the game, so keep at it!
mild briar
❤️ btw i really love demeter attack + the explosion on 10 demeter stacks, mostly because i like how it feels. Is it actually any good? Or should i focus on another god when playing with fists?
unkempt pagoda
i mean, if it's working out for you then it sounds good
there's nothing wrong with experimenting though
civic barn
it's a decent boon for attack, but there are other great choices, too
unkempt pagoda
fists can quickly hit max stacks for dio's hangover
mild briar
i like it for its defensive benefit, my damage on fists is mostly with the x3 dmg on special and a damage multiplier boon on it
civic barn
i do personally avoid the 10 stack explosion though because the constant chill is very important, but i guess on the fist restacking it shouldn't be an issue
it's that time gap that I worry about
mild briar
i have noticed that as well!
civic barn
I've converted to divine strike lately thanks to recommendations here
mild briar
allright, back into the game (i have a rail, lvl 5 epic dion attack build, pray i dont mess this up haha :D)
civic barn
if you get exposed it's pretty easy to jump to their back and do decent damage, but the deflect is the big thing for me
mild briar
divine strike is attack athena boon, right?
mild briar
sounds really good, i loved athena sword special, so this sounds strong
i somehow end up running athena dash every run anyways, so might as well experiment more 😄
wait passive stuff like "your boons drop to common and gain rarity every 3 encounters" from demeter doesnt enable duos to spawn, does it?
civic barn
no, it only applies to boons you have currently
and it's random
so if you got that demeter boon while it's rare, two of your current boons will now randomly be picked and reduced to common so that it can be raised up to heroic at most
for example, that is
unkempt pagoda
duo prerequisites, generally speaking, will usually be two of your core boons (the bar to the left), one from each god
i say generally because some require specific boons
worthy adder
am I crazy or did cosmic egg used to garuntee the spawn. Now it doesn't seem to do so anymore
unkempt pagoda
it never did
cunning urchin
Hades has three attacks for most of the fight: a thrust, the skull throw, and a spin-attack. If you have at least two dashes, you can i-frame the thrust and the skull throw easily by dashing to the side or through him when you see him start up any attack at all, and if you see while you dash that it's a spin-attack, you can do a second dash to get out of range or ideally time the second dash to i-frame it. If you dash backwards, though, the thrust and the skull throw will hit you.
During his first life, he'll often go invincible and do any of those three attacks immediately when he comes out of invinciblity. Watch his footsteps in the snow, and evade the attacks just like before and immediately when you see him come out of invinciblity.
After he does the spin-attack, he'll always take some time to recover before doing another action. You can go in and do some heavy damage in that time.
In addition to dashes, you can use your lesser calls to i-frame his attacks similarly. All calls give you invulnerability for a moment immediately upon activation. Greater Calls work, too, but you'll get to use the invulnerability only 1 time instead of 4 times, so I usually avoid getting a Greater Call in the fight.
On his second life, he gains two swings always followed by a spin-attack, and three dashes always followed by a spin-attack. Be ready to dash for those spin-attacks (ideally you dash behind him when does the double swing already, then his spin-attack will just go nowhere).
He also gets triple-beams and omni-beams. For the triple-beam, just get behind him and do some damage. For the omni-beams, you can get behind one of the two rocks/pillars that don't get destroyed, you can stand right on top of him and hack away at him (he won't hit you there), or you can keep your distance and run along between the beams.
For the green urn summons, his spin-attack after the three dashes will always break them (he takes damage from them too!), so watch out for that. If you have 2 dashes or more, you can dash-strike one with a melee to break and safely dash out again. If you have ranged attacks, you can just use that. Either move to an area that's very free of green urns when he summons them to give you space to maneuver or break 1-2 to create some space for yourself.
@mild briar I hope that helps! 
Apply Boiling Blood or Abyssal Blood (whichever you use!) throughout the fight.
Also, take the Evergreen Acorn keepsake when you enter the Temple of Styx. It will block the first five hits you take in the fight when maxed out.
Another good keepsake is the Bone Hourglass if you have a lot of obols to stack items from the Well of Charon for the fight.
mild briar
damn thank you @cunning urchin ❤️
naive tusk
Bone Hourglass is love 
small stirrup
Mad respect Nyaan.
civic barn
lightning reflexes doesn't count as one of the core boons in terms of requirements right? I guess I'm more wondering if I can get the athena/zeus duo with it
leaden hare
My personal preference for dodging omnes beams is hiding/ stand right on top of the boss, because sometimes the beams track you, in this case it's hard to run from them
near fable
lightning reflexes doesn't count as one of the core boons in terms of requirements right? I guess I'm more wondering if I can get the athena/zeus duo with it
@civic barn Honestly, I'm not sure...
I would say it doesn't, and you need Phalanx shot and one of Lightning Strike, Thunder Flourish, Thunder Dash and Electric Shot, but I didn't play that much on this patch yet...
civic barn
that's what i assumed, thanks for the input though 👌
wintry plume
How does the rail (zag) with lightning strike sound like?
slender charm
so, which keepsakes ya'll recommend? I generally start with coinpurse into collar after first boss
turbid needle
Very strong, but you're likely to get more benefit with Eris. Lightning and other on-hit effects such as Doom and Hangover don't have many ways to increase their damage, so the big 60% damage-up from the Aspect is super valuable and scales far better when leveling those Boons than with something like Heartbreak or Tempest Strike.
I normally take an Olympian Keepsake the first three biomes, and then either Broken Spearpoint if I don't have Holy Shield, or Myrmidon Bracer or Everlasting Acorn if I do.
Sometimes I also start with the Coin Purse or take it in Elysium if there isn't a specific Olympian I want to use in my build.
clear dome
i always take the tooth or acorn for Styx
deep vault
Does anyone have a recommendation for a core build for the new Rail aspect?
clear dome
posi
deep vault
does it actually knock back with the normal attack?
clear dome
yes, hydro pump
hexed fable
Yooo I didnt even think about posi on the new aspect that's hilarious
turbid needle
@misty sentinel Holy cow, seconding that, I thought that's how it did work, since stuff like Double Nova only procs the one lightning bolt.
Cooould get out of hand with High Voltage (AoE on lightning).
hexed fable
First keepsake I used to run was always the god I was trying to get the dual boon for, but recently since I've been more comfortable I've been running butterfly then swap to god boons
near fable
Does the damage up from butterfly stay when you swap it away? I always wondered about that one
hexed fable
naw it leaves you but it's nice little bonus to make those early rooms faster
near fable
Ok, good to know
Might try it out a few times and see how it goes
hexed fable
ye, I used to go god, god, god, then either tooth or acorn
but recently it's been butterfly or purse, then god, god, then acorn or tooth
turbid needle
I still throw DDs away during the Heroes fight and have been taking the Tooth into Styx more recently.
near fable
I personally prefer acorn, as Dad hits kinda hard and 5 hits can end up being wayyy more than 100 HP
hexed fable
I am assuming dd's is death defiance?
near fable
indeed
turbid needle
I should try it again.
near fable
Ah, that's one I never really tried out
Is it good?
I run stubborn
@hexed fable
turbid needle
I kept throwing to Hades last I used it.
hexed fable
My biggest strat too for the longest time was dashing to a corner in Heroes droping Skelly then just bullying theseus
turbid needle
I know it's the popular option in high Heat with maxed Lasting Consequences.
hexed fable
Stubborn is wild
It makes you play more loosely
I take lots more chests in rooms
Downside is Dad fight is sketch
clear dome
you can jjust lucky tooth for him
hexed fable
Yeah usually what I go
that 100 health makes the difference
but also the Pat upgrade on SD is sooo good
flat brook
stubborn roots is so good, reminds me of old spent spirit
clear dome
wat izit
flat brook
i can sell if for 405 gold
clear dome
memelord
hexed fable
Good for when a styx room just eats you down
turbid needle
Old Spent Spirit was lowkey busted.
I never got hit with Bloodstones when I had it.
near fable
Stubborn is wild
Mhh, I avoided stubborn until now cuz the Bosses are what's really messing with me
I'm REALLY struggling with especially the stronger Lernie
near fable
And I just recently swapped to Mouse and Keyboard from Controller, so that's... another... topic
hexed fable
Oooof
near fable
Gotta get that muscle-memory back
hexed fable
Bow was probably the only thing I did on M&K
Controller just feels so fluid to me personally
near fable
Gotta get that muscle-memory back
It's not as bad as I thought it would be tho
Idk, it feels kinda like you have more control over it, and you can chain your attacks wayy better, but I haven't decided whether to keep using M&K or not
hexed fable
Only issue I am facing is my X button on my Xbox controller gets stuck sometimes from playing so much 
hexed fable
Do whatever your heart wants my heart says I need an atari controller
pseudo lark
Does anybody even use the spear here? Almost all I see is Cast, Bow, Fists and Rail.
small stirrup
@pseudo lark Allow me to introduce to one of my religions
I present to you the beyblade
Also guys
Anyone got new poseidon boon "Hydraulic Might"
The one that gives a damage boost at the start of every room
What do you guys think about it?
hexed fable
I tried it once didn't feel much of a difference? I can see potential with speed builds pastably
small stirrup
Well immediatly after I got it, the very next room was a room with Than...
It didn't pan out so well...
turbid needle
anyone have a recommendation on easiest weapon to down hades with
im getting shmacked
small stirrup
Shield
hexed fable
What's your playstyle? also yes shield
small stirrup
Chaos
turbid needle
can chaos form proc twice on same target? ie, throw 2 shields and both shields hit?
hexed fable
that's how I beat him the first few times
small stirrup
Yes
hexed fable
yes I believe
small stirrup
I'm running it right now at max
hexed fable
oof
small stirrup
Put an Arty or Aphro on the special and boom you got yourself a cannon
turbid needle
im sure that at max that [redacted] is op
small stirrup
It isn't op but it is super consistent
turbid needle
havent had this much fun theorycrafting a game since path of exile
small stirrup
Also spoilers are alright here
hexed fable
Also yeah Arty and Aphro see to be the most consistent run finishers
Weaken and Crit is just powerful
turbid needle
because they have the highest flat % on +dmg?
turbid needle
im still used to assuming that flat>percentages in most cases but it seems in hades
% is way more beneficial
small stirrup
Ooh we got an expert typing
turbid needle
running the 50% status ofc
cunning urchin
@turbid needle I wrote down some tips for the fight earlier here. See if that helps you. #h1-builds-and-combat message
small stirrup
some
hexed fable
I also love that info you posted
turbid needle
@cunning urchin thanks bro!
cunning urchin
I'm a girl, though. 
hexed fable
I wanna say that the first phase spin attack has an area inside of it where you don't take a hit but that could just be because I've timed the i frame alot
but I am like
turbid needle
hard to get out of the habit of just mashing spacebar like an absolute gorilla and actually time my dashes
bro is inclusive terminology 💯
hexed fable
100% sure that area goes away in the next phase
cunning urchin
Yeah, there's no area like that.
small stirrup
There's an area?
hexed fable
But then again I usually run poseidon or athena dash so 
turbid needle
i think normal attacks just typically destroy projectiles
maybe that's what you're mistaking
turbid needle
deflect just throws the projectile back at the target it came from
and yeah
like 50dmg and covers most arena
feels bad
hexed fable
but getting that timing down in the first phase then just avoiding him the second is what I do, but I cannot stress enough that Nyan probably has a better thought out process
turbid needle
LOL
i got the closest i had ever been with a 4x cast shard + artemis crit shot cast build and got gibbed on the second phase
it really hurt my anus
cunning urchin
I think Hestia and Chaos Aspect are very strong weapons for the fight.
Hestia lets you deal a ton of damage from a safe distance.
hexed fable
Also Athena boons lighten the load of things to look out for
cunning urchin
Malphon with Divine Strike has a ton of potential, but me and @weak moat are still figuring out that fight. 2 dashes without spending a DD might very well be doable, but it's taking a lot of practice to get there. With 1 dash the fight gets a whole lot harder.
Talking about maxed-out pacts for the fight.
Some learning curve probably with Malphon, but the potential is there.
clear dome
you cannot get hit in it if you go max out packs for that fight
the damage increase is too high
like, 120 damage per sweep
hexed fable
120 sounds like the worse experience I could imagine
cunning urchin
We take Acorn into the fight always. That's worth a ton of HP.
cinder flower
so hestia is considered best aspect for the rail?
cunning urchin
Talking about the final boss, not the secret boss.
hexed fable
Man high heat gets me excited and scared at the same time
lament coral
it feels like a chore
hexed fable
I am at 6 on rail but wanted to claim more bounties before going further
cunning urchin
Hestia has the highest clear for Exagryph. Dealing lots of damage with single shots gives you a lot of room to maneuver. I don't know if it's the "best", though. It's just what did the job so far, and it's particularly good in the final boss fight.
lament coral
not only do you need to be at the top of your game, but the stars have to align for proper gods/boons/hammers, too
hexed fable
I did the perk package just to see it at one point and the spreading of the spirits in Elysium filled me with dread
cunning urchin
lol I imagine. That one takes some getting used to.
lament coral
that one's annoying, too, cause you have to wait for all of em to pop before the fight ends
hexed fable
What's the ideal run speed for tight deadline?
hexed fable
I think my fastest run was a straight 20 mins but that was booking it and getting lucky on the styx rooms
So that kinda fills me with hope
cunning urchin
Maxing out most of the mirror and house contractor upgrades helps a lot with clear speed.
Also maxing out weapon aspects.
cinder flower
What are some of the best build with chaos shield
lament coral
Athena/Ares, Aphrodite/Dionysus, Anything/Zeus
cinder flower
are those duos?
lament coral
Attack/Special
but for Athena/Ares and Aphro/Dio you want their respective duos, too
you don't need Demeter/Zeus' duo cause you don't need Jolt
cinder flower
what deflect skill do i want?
lament coral
um, the attack one?
cinder flower
attack over special?
lament coral
I don't understand what you're talking about
you want Athena attack and Ares special, and their duo
rare kayak
i was wondering why my runs were all over 25 mins because they seemed pretty decent but they wouldnt make td that way
then i remembered i was full clearing styx because i had time
dry ember
Mad lad
cunning urchin
Well, you could clear TD1 with that time.
rare kayak
i mean i was levelling my keepsakes
and its not like i didnt win when i was full clearing
dry ember
Whay do you have left?
turbid needle
any way to re-seed starting boon?
rare kayak
so its justified i think...
dry ember
any way to re-seed starting boon?
You can suicide
rare kayak
ive got everything three starred except for aphro ares poseidon
turbid needle
should be a binding of isaac hard reset keybind
ill mention it in suggestions 😛
dry ember
Well technically mirror changes and swapping out of God keepsake will change your starting boons rarity
In a negative way
cunning urchin
@turbid needle check the pinned messages in #hades-feedback for how to post in there.
rare kayak
yeah just die
dry ember
So technically you can reseed, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
rare kayak
turn on trap heat to make it easier
can turn on that mirror boon that removes death defiance oo
dry ember
Just do die% speedrun
rare kayak
please hades%
dry ember
If you die, might as well get a world record doing it.
stoic thicket
I just failed the Peach challenge of the week by a single tick of damage on big boss... Graaaaah.
dry ember
Next one
cunning urchin
Have you tried, I don't know, doing more damage? I think that would help. :hypnos:
rare kayak
yeah i failed my beowulf run because i thought i could block the spin move
and then he dashed behind me
dry ember
Nothing personnel kid
cunning urchin
@dry ember no-hit 58-heat speedrun when?
rare kayak
and then he hit me for 80 damage or some number
dry ember
@dry ember no-hit 58-heat speedrun when?
When I finally download Photoshop and lesrn how to use it.
cunning urchin
No house contractor upgrades, no keepsakes.
rare kayak
what if malphon gets aspect of aerith and we just hit hades with a chair
when you wear it zag wears the dress too
dry ember
I do wonder how far you can go with save scumming and routing on 58 heat
rare kayak
sounds like hell
dry ember
I feel like eventually it will be done
rare kayak
how would you do no keepsakes though
cunning urchin
I don't think Zagreus would be powerful enough to wield that. Very unfortunate.
dry ember
Just Dormammu the run
Pick meelee weapon, take Distant Memory
As close as you can get to no keepsake
rare kayak
conclusion
sg should revert sisyphus keepsake so that fox can do a 58 heat keepsakeless run
this is a good idea
dry ember
Trap% run
rare kayak
ah yes the peach challenge where you have to kill hades with rubble
i wonder if you could do it if you stacked enough chaos boons
dry ember
Kill Hades with his own vases
rare kayak
does he get hit by them?
dry ember
Tailesque did a run where he stacked a decent amount of trap damage
Vases were doing like 500 damage on Hades
Yes Hades can be hurt by his own vase
rare kayak
i dont think ive ever actually like
intentionally hit anything with rubble
huh didnt know
speaking of rubble
anyone else having trouble dodging the rubble from hydra?
cunning urchin
It's not possible to unequip keepsakes, but you can just never equip one.
dry ember
What rubble?
rare kayak
errr forgot which variant but theres one which when slamming head on ground summons rocks to fall on you
i think it was the minion summoning one
the warning circles are real hard to see sometimes and the rocks fall really fast
rare kayak
yeah but it also just summons minor rocks when it head slams and i cant dodge those consistently
cunning urchin
Green Lernie is a real pushover without FO2.
rare kayak
em lernie is fun in general if i can keep my dashes aligned
rare kayak
just dodge 4head
the one that really gets me on the head slam is the minor invincibility it gets
i shoot a cast over expecting to win and it just dodges it
cunning urchin
Use your call for extra i-frames in combination with your dash.
cunning urchin
They all give i-frames on activation. Very underused.
cunning urchin
Yeah, but that doesn't buff your DPS like say Dionysus' Aid does.
dry ember
Yeah, but that doesn't buff your DPS like say Dionysus' Aid does.
What if your DPS is higher than the Dio Call?
rare kayak
then it goes higher
actually what happens if you inflict 5 stacks of 6 hangover on an enemy then use call for 20 hangover
dry ember
But you need to dodge around instead of just facetanking everything
rare kayak
does it overwrite the hangover?
cunning urchin
I don't know the answer to that, but you can test it and report back to us.
flat brook
oh hey, got fully loaded without looking for it
i guess you only need exit wounds now that dual shot is a duo, right?
stoic thicket
Not entirely certain but last I heard was any two of her T2 boons.
flat brook
even the crit ones?
lament coral
you need 2 out of 3 of her boons, don't remember which ones
stoic thicket
Don't know, honestly. IIRC any two of Hunter's Mark, Support Fire, Most Wanted (or whatever that thing is called)
But might be mistaken.
stray glen
do people normally use favor vs foresight and pride vs legacy?
rare kayak
i personally prefer foresight and legacy but thats because i like hunting duos
hexed fable
Same
stoic thicket
Be reminded that Fully Loaded is now a bit weaker, only two casts instead of three.
But a lot more consistent to get.
hexed fable
The epic drop rate is nice but duo's are just so build defining
rare kayak
the higher numbers on rarities can make big differences though
stoic thicket
Epic boons are usually worth it if you plan on going for a lot of Arty, as her status curse is very good but very hard to force on the enemy you'd want them on.
stray glen
is there an updated list of the duos? i don't even know which ones are good
rare kayak
very good duo
you can combine that with dionysus for ice wine and scintillating feast
for the super cast run
hexed fable
Only duo I didn't enjoy was the aphro demeter one
lament coral
only some duos are actually strong
hexed fable
Lots of set up for a some what meh
stoic thicket
The wiki is currently in the process of getting upgraded @stray glen , essentially any that were good before are still good.
rare kayak
the dionysus arty boon is pretty good
if you have consistent ways of applying hangover stacks
lament coral
like Athena/Ares, Aphro/Dio, Poseidon/Artemis, Ares/Dio
hexed fable
That crit on hangover is solid
rare kayak
aphro ares is pretty decent too
lament coral
just having a purple attack/special/cast is miles better
stoic thicket
The Aphro / Dio + Ares / Dio combo is fantastic.
hexed fable
Athena/Dem is nice with stubborn defiance if you find yourself running stubborn I'd take a chance on it
rare kayak
but yeah duo boons are inconsistent
if you dont get the ones youre aiming for youll find yourself struggling to damage race bosses
lament coral
but then you're running SD
rare kayak
and even styx minis
rare kayak
not being able to kill a supersatyr quickly will add up a lot of damage to a run
hexed fable
If I cant kill dad on one defiance what's 4 gonna do me
lament coral
probably kill him
cunning urchin
I almost wish Stubborn Roots wasn't offered if you use Death Defiance. It does so very little for it most of the time.
lament coral
I kinda wish it was transformative
dry ember
New duo then?
hexed fable
How they do with the legendary for Hermes
lament coral
so that if you run SD you'd get the current version, and if you run DD you'd get a different one
cunning urchin
Lady Athena already has 2 boons that you normally avoid if you have DDs left. Now with Stubborn Roots, it's three.
carmine rivet
I think SGG said in the Q&A they weren't gonna make alternate duos for specific instances.
lament coral
for example, "restore 1 HP during combat (every 3 seconds)"
hexed fable
So Hermes and Blood is a fringe case?
dry ember
A little boost for SD doesn't hurt for the game diversity
carmine rivet
And yeah, Athena's Defiance boons are really bad if you still have all your DDs, and practically garbage with SDs.
clear dome
athena defiance boons wont show up when all dds are not lost
lament coral
right? How come Kiss of Styx shows up only when you have empty DD slots but Athena's DD boons show up regardless?
that change really makes no sense
hexed fable
I dont believe you
dry ember
Some setup applies
carmine rivet
Really? It says replenish though.
dry ember
But you can had one Athena DD and the norm SD
lament coral
Athena's DD boons do show up when you have all DDs, and they don't give you extra DDs
dry ember
You need to be on your last life with SD, then if you find Athena Defiance
You will get that Defiance
And next room you get the SD back
turbid needle
this is hilarious
carmine rivet
That's....really obtuse.
lament coral
I've only used SD once so I wouldn't know
dry ember
If you didn't die on SD then yeah Athena DD doesn't occur
hexed fable
Hmm
cunning urchin
Amir didn't seem to know about it, so that was probably unintentional. But they're keeping that so far.
dry ember
Basically replenish means exactly what it means
turbid needle
I never play with SD so I thought there would be some sort of extra benefit for it
dry ember
You need to lose something to replenish it
carmine rivet
It does occur though. Athena tried to give me Deathless Stand when I still had my SD.
hexed fable
And 3 seconds of immunity with 40 health doesn't give me confidence
cunning urchin
Yeah, she can offer it, but you won't get the extra DD from it.
hexed fable
But if that interaction does happen then I might use that as a strat
Course I am betting on the fact I'll have a styx chamber with Athena
carmine rivet
Honestly I wish Athena's DD boons worked the way Kiss of Styx used to, giving a flat +1 DD. Maybe make the two boons mutually exclusive.
hexed fable
I have no issue doing that
dry ember
Same tbh xD
carmine rivet
I never take them because she always offers them when I still have full DDs or an SD the few times I try that out.
cunning urchin
I think Last Stand and Deathless Stand are fine the way they are for DDs.
lament coral
you mean bonuses wise?
hexed fable
They could be a tad better on SD not gonna lie
cunning urchin
Having an extra DD on SD is very strong.
lament coral
and most likely unintentional
cunning urchin
I mean the bonuses and that you can only replenish a DD but don't get an extra one if you have all DDs. That's perfectly fine for those two. Master Chaos's Legendary is an extra DD. Getting that on a tier 1 would make no sense at all.
lament coral
nobody's arguing that
it's the fact they show up when you're full on DDs that's the issue
dry ember
I mean unfortunate boon placements exist
versed tide
lament coral
I said this before and I'll say it again: all gods should have 1 Defiance boon and once taken, no other god will offer you Defiance boons until that one was used.
cunning urchin
Nah.