Just gotta wait a bit between link posts.
#h1-builds-and-combat
hushed ledge
It's really just about trying to get myself to 32 heat asap without jumping all the way in at once
13 heat
EM3, FO2, TD1
hushed ledge
It is definitely
crystal wing
I think I'm dumb. How do you follow the pinned Duo boon combination chart
cunning urchin
I just use this list personally lol. https://hades.gamepedia.com/Duo_Boons
crystal wing
okay that makes much more sense thanks
hushed ledge
This is the link I was trying to post
https://imgur.com/a/vGvInmF
feat the amazing heat bar
random hull
It seriously says "Great, you made Heat Gauge cry, happy"?
stoic thicket
And I lost another run. With a new aspect. On heat 0. This is apparently not the day to play Hades.
crystal wing
The timer is the hardest part imo
if that timer was longer or wasn't there would make it much easier
lament perch
man, imagine having clears
y'all talking about different weapons aspects and I'm here having got to Styx like 3 times and past it never
I see the aspects but I gots no blood
untold vortex
You'll get there mate, the first clear is definitely more difficult than subsiquent ones
dire bough
whats everyone running on talon aspect, tried dio attack/aphro special, got to hades on 1 heat, but couldnt get enough dmg in safely to get past
in terms of boons*
sudden dagger
It's true DrSparkles. You can do it!
crystal wing
You can get titan blood from fury sisters too
lament perch
only one per weapon, and I've got them all already
I want to max my sword aspect so I can get Skelly quest!
crystal wing
Best of luck if you manage to get the skelly quest.
hushed ledge
My personal recommendation is actually to get an aspect you enjoy and find strong maxed first
I haven't done the skelly quest yet because 5 blood is a large investment
crystal wing
I still haven't.
If you want to play the game on easy mode. Get enough titan blood for chaos shield or if u have it then even better.
And farm blood that way
On different heats
sudden dagger
Pretty sure lvl 5 chaspect was my first clear
hushed ledge
I maxed my chaos shield earlier and honestly it's kinda disappointing. Obviously it's really strong but it's not the absurd instant win I was promised :p
My first maxed aspect was Demeter
Fists are really good on low heat
sudden dagger
I still choose whichever weapon gives me +20 percent darkness, but whenever its the shield, fists, or rail, I have a better chance of pushing heat
hushed ledge
I struggle a lot with rail tbh
crystal wing
Pretty much 0-15 heat most things should be viable imo
hushed ledge
But yeah I think I could probably 16 heat with all weapons rn
Rail would definitely be the hardest though
sudden dagger
What helped me with rail is always, always Zeus attack. Jolted, chance to strike twice, look for Artemis support fire if you can, and proc priv stat
hushed ledge
I find a lot more success with special builds
It's really hard to consistently aim because the game is iso
hushed ledge
kbm
crystal wing
Special with rail seems sub optimal, no?
hushed ledge
Special I don't miss half my shots
crystal wing
Would work better if u went for the basic attack with it
sudden dagger
I've heard said (maybe even by you?) That rail is worth using at aim assist even on kbm
carmine rivet
special gets really good with certain hammer combos too
hushed ledge
Aim assist seems jank I'll have to try it though
sudden dagger
You've got to do the flick
sudden dagger
That's the other thing that helped me clear
sudden dagger
Not implying you can't, just saying it was a game changer for me
crystal wing
I don't know about m&k never tried with it. Always plugged in a controller. But aim assist with controller is literally lock on
Okay maybe not literally
But close
sudden dagger
(I played without aim assist, on controller, for the first 120ish runs, with no clear lol)
hushed ledge
That's a lot of runs for no clear lol
hushed ledge
My first modern clear was probably like my 3rd time to FB?
sudden dagger
I'm not that good at this game, but I enjoy it
hushed ledge
First overall clear was in the 20s on release
crystal wing
Use the health trinket and the mirror upgrade that gives you 3 extra lives ?
Should give u some good surviveablity
hushed ledge
I'm proud to say I had a clear with every weapon before they buffed the sword
sudden dagger
The great thing about this game was that even though it was clear 101, it never felt frustrating. I was learning and making progress throughout
They buffed sword?
lament perch
same patroclus
hushed ledge
On release sword was awful
lament perch
I am Not Good but I keep getting better at least!
crystal wing
I swear king Arthur's sword is broke af
hushed ledge
10-10-15 attack chain iirc
crystal wing
Yeah sword on release was dodo
hushed ledge
10 DA?
Special was smaller, less damage, less knockback, and about twice as slow to startup and end
It was just miserable
Took me 10 or so runs to clear
Of just sword straight
crystal wing
Also if u use the king Arthur's sword aspect. Assuming u have it. Combined with the life trinket, and its passive that is even more health for you.
Plus the special damage reduction and 3 lives you should be able clear runs easy
Wow ur good
I gave up on og sword
hushed ledge
I had nothing else to do school had just finished for the year
stoic thicket
Okay, that game has seen a few iterations.
I always forget that it has been in EA for a year and half.
carmine rivet
Damn, i remember when we got two walls to hide behind in the hydra fight
hushed ledge
The og hydra was also way harder
Probably harder than EM hydra by a decent amount imo
carmine rivet
True, though it didn’t have barrage back then
hushed ledge
It did
It had the wide barrage
And the shots you couldn't attack to break and it would use it during heads
carmine rivet
hm. Maybe i’m just remembering it not being as quick
hushed ledge
And it had 3 head phases
carmine rivet
Oh the unbreaking shots yeah
hushed ledge
It wasn't as fast but they homed better iirc
carmine rivet
Yeah yeah, 2, 4, 6 or something
hushed ledge
Yep
carmine rivet
Lernie got soft
hushed ledge
Ikr
carmine rivet
Honestly the only menace in EM2 Lernie is more lava.
hushed ledge
That old UI looks so much worse than the modern one as well
The lower space makes headslams a lot harder
hushed ledge
Also the fact that we don't have supplementary boons showing on the collapsed view lol
carmine rivet
When i came into it and the walls were gone and the guaranteed health pots were gone too I was scared
That fight was terrifying before they added Elysium and needed to tone it down
hushed ledge
Ikr
I think I only actually did one run while Ely was the final zone
Somehow cleared it lol
carmine rivet
Yeah. Now my og account has all these weapon clears that i feel are undeserved because they’re from final boss Lernie and final boss Heroes.
hushed ledge
I switched computers and lost my og save lol
leaden hare
the duo boon chart is mainly for a quick check after you learn the duo boon mechanics
works more like a bookmark than a tutorial
dire bough
oh man i think the satyrs might be the most painful enemy in the game
carmine rivet
styx poison is rough yeah
dire bough
runs go so well and when i get to them its usually where it can all go to crap haha
carmine rivet
yeah, the satyr darts fly a lot faster than the witch orbs. think of them more like the elite strongbow attacks with less build-up and dash when you hear the spitting sfx climax
not sure if it's me hallucinating but it also feels like they have micro-stun resist so they can sometimes spit if you're meleeing them
dire bough
yeah i def feel like they can spit when im meleeing them
one of the few mobs
but yeah i could be wrong as well, some builds their fine, just the ones im still learning usually a struggle
usually try and run athena call just incase to help out
proud veldt
I beat the game with each of 5 weapons and now I have enough blood to fully upgrade one aspect. Which is the most impactful, if you would say strongest aspect? I'm leaning towards guang yu for spear but I want to hear other people's opinions.
sudden dagger
If you never stop dashing
And never stop hitting them
It is hard for satyrs to aim
stoic thicket
If you want a weapon that's easily going to carry you to max bounty level without breaking much of a sweat - Chaos aspect shield. It's extremely strong and safe.
leaden hare
Also pay attention to satyrs w/ armor, bc their attack shoots poison to 3 directions
sudden dagger
The worst satyr is the rapid fire one
sand cape
shield is strong and safe, but some aspect NEED to be upgraded to even be worth using, like hestia and chiron
stoic thicket
Yup, but shield alone can be used to get you a large, large chunk of Titan Blood for the respective upgrades. It's a bit of a philosophy thing, I think that having a carry weapon first is better than using the blood for good things that might not work for you.
Hestia in particular is an acquired taste, imo.
sand cape
to each their own, im currently on heat 5 for all weapons, have one aspect upgrades for each but fists
stoic thicket
For the fists can I recommend just sticking to Zag at first? Zag aspect Fists are really, really good.
sand cape
i havent decide yet, been running talos just because i hate enemies getting away but it isnt exactly useful otherwise
stoic thicket
All three aspects are completely fine, the bonus attack speed and dodge chance from Zag is just very good for a lot of builds, and it costs 5 blood total to max out, so there's that.
sand cape
yeah, i still find fists rather annoying without rolling nuckles tho
but im slave to the fates so i play whatever have dark thirsts
stoic thicket
Have you tried a Merciful End build on the fists?
Works with any aspect as you aren't really using anything aside from the attack.
sand cape
merciful end, blizzard shot, and deadly reversal with deflecting attacks, i have done
stoic thicket
The fists are possibly the best Merciful End weapon. They attack so fast, you're in melee range anyway, as soon as the duo pops you essentially won the run at the heat levels we're talking about here.
cunning urchin
What's annoying without Rolling Knuckle? Just punch, punch, punch, dash-strike, repeat.
sand cape
i just like the ability to stand there sometimes stunlocking an enemy without much risk of dashing into lava
ionic bane
@hushed ledge : I'm on your tracks with the Athena cast build haha
cunning urchin
You can dash left-right in front of the enemy and keep attacking. Don't necessarily need to dash through them.
bronze sorrel
So now that we know what all but one of the final aspects will be, we just have the Fists to speculate on. Who thinks the final aspect for Malphon will be the Creed of Apollo?
sand cape
it wont be a greek god, to follow the trend of the others
also i espect heavy slow punches
bronze sorrel
Umm, it wasn't meant to be a greek god...
carmine rivet
i still like my Iron Gripper (Thor) idea
bronze sorrel
Yall have seen Rocky right?....
sand cape
i doubt they pick something that isnt a myth
carmine rivet
heard about it, seen trailers, but no.
random hull
I understood that reference.
bronze sorrel
Thank you!
carmine rivet
I remember the Creed trailers, i should say. So i recognized when you said Creed in relation to fists but yeah, adding Apollo confused me
random hull
Back to the question, does anyone know any notable pugilists in legends or folklore? There probably won't be any redundancies with sources that were already covered by other fourth aspects, but I can't make a list here because it would constitute a beta spoiler.
sand cape
hmm, well i would spec a little leverage with aspects, specially after the rail one
and no overall
any important african or south american figure famous for punching?
random hull
Until now, I knew about all five of the mentioned figures, which I am somewhat proud of. Perhaps that run will be broken. Or it will be a "why didn't I think of it" moment.
I would bet on Aztec if given the choice.
carmine rivet
He's deified in China, and he's from a famous historical period. Most of the stuff about him in Hades is likely fiction anyhow.
(like his "glorious" beard and the spear itself)
random hull
He was an actual person that was later mythified, not unlike Achilles, which is why I found his inclusion quite fitting.
carmine rivet
So this is a bit of a reach, and the hero is technically more known for his spear, but what about Cu Chulainn?
The Twin Fists are noted for enhancing the bearer's physical might and bonding with them directly, which could allow for some interesting Riastrad (warp spasm/berserker mode) in-game.
sand cape
gilgamesh sounds interesting
carmine rivet
ooo that'd be cool. Last aspect added before v1.0 being that of the first mythical hero would be neat
sudden dagger
Was Gilgamesh super strong? But no gloves?
sand cape
i would also like a new weapon, a hammer, with a final aspect being an axe
carmine rivet
nah 4th aspect hammer would be a ban hammer
random hull
Wasn't Malphon supposed to be the last weapon?
carmine rivet
probably
6 weapon slots in the courtyard has been there far back as i can remember
sand cape
they could still throw a curve and add another on final release
carmine rivet
and i doubt they'd release another weapon with 1.0 coming this year
SGG is pretty meticulous about debugging and balancing weapons so even if there is another update between Blood Price and 1.0 I doubt we'd get a new weapon before year's end. And we only just got Malphon back in March.
random hull
F
magic dagger
bronze sorrel
any important african or south american figure famous for punching?
@sand cape Zumbi would be a great choice for that
magic dagger
would've been a perfect clear, but I stepped on a pot
bronze sorrel
Dandara (Zumbis badass warrior queen wife) would also be a great pick and add a woman to the set of final aspects, so that'd be a big win for representation.
They're both pretty mythic in capoeira traditions and in both African and Brazilian history.
random hull
That sounds intriguing.
sand cape
sounds interesting
also i agree we need female representation outside the main aspects
since blade is taken we cant have mulan
magic dagger
Now that I have weapon aspects unlocked, I can put Zoom Aspect in its rightful place at the top of the MVP boon list
naive tusk
Why is it called Zoom?
magic dagger
move speed and dash distance
it makes you zoomy
so you can avoid aoe attacks super easily, and approach enemies from farther away
that's the purpose of zoom aspect
naive tusk
Ah, yeah! I like that too 
sudden dagger
It is zoomy but will always be the zaspect to me
naive tusk
Zassy~
tough grotto
Hello guys, I took a break from the game but I think I'm now ready to tackle heat levels
What's the best starter pact of punishment pact?
main osprey
Damage Control isn't difficult for most weapons
unkempt pagoda
if your runs are usually less then 30 minutes, the timer heat is a good one
tough grotto
They aren't, average is 31, 32 minutes
naive tusk
I suggest Damage Control for heat 1 & 2 then Extreme Measures as you climb up the heat ladder so you can get used to the new stuff added. Middle Management is also a good heat option so you learn the new mechanics from mini-bosses.
raw violet
i would probably second Extreme Measures
i probably wouldn't immediately suggest Heightened Security as that is incredibly punishing for a lot of players
naive tusk
Oh, it can be. And for 1 heat, it's not worth the hassle unless you get Sure Footing.
raw violet
Forced Overtime is not what I would call a starter but the sooner you get used to it, the sooner you're going to be able to tackle more challenges
dry ember
yup don't go HS
raw violet
i think realistically, something like convenience fee is probably the easiest 1 heat option as it impacts your moment to moment gameplay the least
naive tusk
Yeah, that's also a good heat option to start tackling the heats as it doesn't affect you gameplay wise. Personally, I never take it because I like to spend money 
raw violet
technically you're still spending money
just spending more of it
gotta show them shades who has money burning in their pockets
naive tusk
I meant, I don't like to spend more than needed 
mighty ermine
i would kind of suggest trying out some specific heats early on not for their ease but for how they'll serve you well in the long run irt playing better overall
though i know that's not for everyone
like FO, HL, etc.
raw violet
^ that's my overall suggestion for tackling FO2 early, rather than late
build the habits needed to keep climbing
mighty ermine
exactly
naive tusk
Forced Overtime for sure is a good way to get better reactions but FO2 won't get in until heat lv 7 or so.
mighty ermine
just do 57 immediately what's the big deal
dry ember
Peach 
raw violet
technically it's always do and die
naive tusk
There's also the case that not everyone likes FO2 so they can also skip it entirely.
dry ember
touche
dry ember
I don't like BP, can I skip it?
naive tusk
Yeah, I do it when I'm using melee weapons lol
mighty ermine
i think we're kind of all guilty of skipping AP unless we absolutely have to take it lol
dry ember
Yo dawg I heard you like RNG so we add RNG in your RNG game, so you can RNG while you RNG
mighty ermine
what do you mean you don't like seeing a duo or legendary denied right in front of you
what do you mean you want an attack boon by now
naive tusk
I have had the worst luck with that so I'm never touching it again 
mighty ermine
and then you use your FP rolls to try again and it gives you horrible options again anyways
dry ember
To Hades or to Pyre
dry ember
xD
naive tusk
Heeey, that could be the theme for my next challenge: AP2 while equipping Shattered Shackle the whole run 
But I will leave that for when the update hits because we need a 3rd contestant for the Harpy Feather Duster challenge lol
To Hades or to Pyre
@dry ember Pyre then Hades
mighty ermine
i actually like that challenge idea
dry ember
Heeey, that could be the theme for my next challenge: AP2 while equipping Shattered Shackle the whole run
but that's really similar to no core boon challenge
which i did with Shackle Excalibur
mighty ermine
sorry, whoops
i just was wondering, since the latter would have been more fitting yknow
dry ember
Tail can do it at 32 heat instead of 20 lol
mighty ermine
now i have to
naive tusk
You did the whole run with Shackle? What for? 😮
dry ember
no boon run
rare topaz
I'd run shackle but
Having a purely environmental build and trapping and all sounds dreadful
OH
Sure
naive tusk
Well, yeah, you can try that and see how much damage you can net with it
dry ember
Zag Sword
naive tusk
You sly doggo, Imma hit you on the head with a balloon 🎈
Then rub it so you get static spiky hair mwahahaha!
naive tusk
Imma pat and pet you afterwards so it's down again 
rare topaz
If anyone rubbed a balloon on my head I'd kill them
I'd know because that's what happened on my 7th birthday.
Don't try your luck.
Before I get put on a watch list I'm joking pls
dry ember
Do the Peach challenge or I'll add you to the OFAC Sanction List.
naive tusk
Current Peachy challenge: Tight Deadline 2 + Harpy Feather Duster for the whole run, if you are looking for something fresh to do
untold vortex
Sounds fun but also hard
rare topaz
?!
I STILL NEED TO USE TOOTH FOR FINAL BOSS
I AM NOT READY FOR THIS
panicked screams
sudden dagger
It is hard to fight Hades on TD2
rare topaz
...
dry ember
yeah sack RNG can mess with your time.
sudden dagger
TLC, try the accorn, I think it gives a little more HP than the tooth
rare topaz
Tight deadline is like 7 mins right
sudden dagger
@dry ember I got sack 2, I've just never practiced fighting him quickly
dry ember
negate a number of boss hits
naive tusk
Tight deadline is like 7 mins right
@rare topaz Yes!
rare topaz
And with the number of little hits final boss can pull off
sudden dagger
You'll learn his patterns with practice
dry ember
Effectively 5 Hades hits >> 100hp from Skelly
rare topaz
Ty Peach~
untold vortex
Depends on the hits you take
dry ember
Maybe that's something you want to try out 😄
rare topaz
I might as well yeah
dry ember
fair enough Aggy.
rare topaz
You know what I also wanna try?
sudden dagger
I'm told that eventually knowing his patterns can lead to doing better against him. But I'm still struggling with that one
rare topaz
SHACKLE RUN
naive tusk
Doesn't his swipe deal 20 damage without Burning Blood?
untold vortex
It can be effectively a lot more hp, but it tends to be at least 100
dry ember
40 is base damage I think
sudden dagger
I thought his spins were doing 40
naive tusk
Unless you get hit by lasers 
sudden dagger
And those are the ones that hit me
untold vortex
Then acorn would be perfect for you
naive tusk
Ah, I misremember. Acorn would negate more damage, if you don't get hit by lasers lol
dry ember
Ah, I misremember. Acorn would negate more damage, if you don't get hit by lasers lol
Joke on you my acorn is long gone before Hades uses his lasers
haha
sudden dagger
Same
dry ember
haha cry in taking hits
rare topaz
XD
naive tusk
Well, to me, it seems the 2nd phase is easier than the 1st. The summons make it more of a hassle and, as someone said before, he stands still more during his 2nd phase.
dry ember
huh
naive tusk
You mean Ron
dry ember
oh yeah I said I should play Pyre, should actually get to doing that xD
rare topaz
Pyre stupid game, why make game about fire LOL
sudden dagger
Have fun!
rare topaz
Cya Fox!
sudden dagger
Watch out for the baddies
rare topaz
Pyre easiest game ever
sudden dagger
Does pyre have anything like pact?
naive tusk
Bye doggo. Fear not the purifying flame! 
sudden dagger
I forget
rare topaz
Nah pretty sure it doesn't.
hushed ledge
TD1 is hard
oh and I again have 1 encounter left on a keepsake 😦
bad game
yeah nah i don't want to use TD lol
really unfun gameplay
sand cape
tight deadline puts extra pressure, then when you take it off you feel so relax about just taking your time and dancing around
naive tusk
That's exactly what I do: dance around 💃
hushed ledge
the problem is that it's just not fun pressure
it's "Haha i need to hit the enemy so now i die because i have far less viable ways to play the game"
untold vortex
I quite like Tight Deadline but I also like speedrunning in general so I have a natural bias here 
naive tusk
You 2 are amazing for being down-to-earth 😊
raw violet
I think it’s helpful to think of TD as less like a unfun pressure type of pact option (which i can’t deny that it isn’t) but more of a reward for offloading some amount of heat investment from other pact options. For a given level of heat.
hushed ledge
yeah i'm turning off TD after i lost all 3 DD's to ely boss because i was under time pressure
sterile portal
I'd turn off EM3 in that case @hushed ledge
dry ember
I really like going fast because I like a "cinematic" experience
Sure you can have better or safer clear if you "camp"
hushed ledge
it's not even camping
dry ember
But rushing your enemies and face them in true combat is ... honorable?
hushed ledge
it's just how i naturally play isn't fast enough
true combat isn't holding towards the enemy
dry ember
I don't mean you
Just in general 😄 I've seen some clips of people doing really crazy and cinematic stuff in games like Dishonored and Witcher 3
So I would like to replicate that playing Hades. Y'know, Zagreus rushing toward the enemy, eviscerating them while evading their attacks.
hushed ledge
haha
dry ember
Like the scene in 300
hushed ledge
ahdrsfiugafsdjh i almost had that run
lost it right at the very very end of FB p2
because i managed to get hit by 2 spins right at the very end of athena calls
livid comet
recently I've been trying to improve my PBs and found that if I fight without regard for life then I can get quicker kills
hushed ledge
I've found that but it's also not how I like to play lol
GY really clicked with me once I maxed it because it's basically exactly how I want to play
Strong ranged damage
The ability to consistently regain resources
And crazy good meaties
livid comet
I like GY a lot
prior to fists it was my favourite weapon
and I honestly think spear is the worst weapon overall
hushed ledge
I have 2 maxed spears because I maxed Zag spear for some reason but GY is just so much fun
livid comet
indeed
GY poke best strat
although
I did end up finding the damage in the crit build wanting
I had to rely on urge to Kill for the big numbers
hushed ledge
It's not busted damage always but it's just so consistent and safe
livid comet
*Battle Rage
sand cape
i love spear when i get the bouncing effect, it feels so good, but somehow it feels a bit slow, if i wanted slow i would just pick GY, which i do most of the time
verbal ibex
i feel GY is faster, since you dont have to call back the spear
hushed ledge
I find GY faster than normal spear because I basically just play normal spear like worse GY lol
sand cape
i appreciate the return damage, specially since it backstab and hit those pesky shieldbearers
verbal ibex
true, but the return is what makes the base spear slower compared to GY imo
just different playstyle, which is the point i guess
hushed ledge
I have managed to get 0 good special boons this whole run 😦
literally have to use athena special
hushed ledge
nice!
magic dagger
but pretty decent all in all
hushed ledge
GY is so good especially with FO0
magic dagger
works with FO2 once it's levelled a little
magic dagger
heals?
hushed ledge
from spin
magic dagger
I got one-shotted twice, but other than that I literally didn't take damage
freaking bullboi I swear
hushed ledge
my butterfly is 1 level off of rank 3 lmao
I only have 5 keepsakes left to max
hourglass, earring, butterfly, pos, dio
i need to figure out a weapon that makes me want to use pos or dio
I don't remember, do chaos dash strike boons buff dash uppers?
naive tusk
As far as I know, no.
lament coral
Chaos shield could be used with Dio
Poseidon's just awful all around because he pushes enemies out of your weapon range
hushed ledge
ye
naive tusk
I actually did great with Guan Yu + Tempest Flourish 
Tidal Dash is great for when you are using long range weapons too. I don't see it being bad with Aspect of Chaos since that is a mix of close-long range attacks.
lament coral
is Flourish the special?
hushed ledge
yes
mighty ermine
tempest flourish on GY is definitely good, yeah. poseidon has the second highest % damage flourish of the % increase gods despite having the second lowest for attack
i think my fastest GY run around 10m30s or something was with charged skewer and tempest flourish
raw violet
dash strike chaos boons boost malphon dash upper specifically
but no other dash special
dry ember
I think the slam damage is also quite significant
raw violet
i'm quite sure that's how I hit my pb on fists
mighty ermine
probably because the dash-upper has its own unique animation seperate from regular specials, while specials following a dash on like any other weapon aren't really discernably different from a special otherwise
mighty ermine
yeah, i love it
raw violet
yeah, definitely how I got the pb https://i.imgur.com/QnsrUlH.png
mighty ermine
lol oh wow
hushed ledge
seems good
mighty ermine
chaos coming thru
livid comet
can confirm GY + tempest flourish lets you clean house
hushed ledge
I took Paupers affluence over it so i'm not too sad
mighty ermine
also just noticed that danger zone health, whew
livid comet
why does chaos take so long to hatch smh
raw violet
haha pb or bust
livid comet
also
mighty ermine
but it's just Egg now so it's fine
livid comet
aspect of chaos is now creepy af with the little tidbits from chaos once in a while
raw violet
everything is fine
livid comet
😬
raw violet
until it is not
lament coral
it's Pandora's box before Pandora
magic dagger
aspect of chaos is now creepy af with the little tidbits from chaos once in a while
@livid comet are you kidding? it's like having your own personal cheerleader!
dry ember
This is fine
dry ember
It tickles me every time Chaos be like "Come son of Hades."
dry ember
Like yeah, let me just get down to your basement at your behest
totally not creepy at all
main osprey
exactly
livid comet
extermination
magic dagger
It's a friendly invitation is all
livid comet
<laughter>
is definitely the creepiest one
lament coral
for a basement, it sure looks nice
magic dagger
I always enter when he calls out to me
lament coral
there's even fish there!
raw violet
chaos fish are chaos's version of candy in the van
main osprey
:sad:
raw violet
lies
dry ember
^
magic dagger
sometimes there's candy but usually it's just a cruel joke?
raw violet
chaos, there's no fish down here +70% enemies
livid comet
aaaa
dry ember
Mood
rare topaz
I always enter when he calls out to me
Pretty sure Chaos' pronouns are they/them
livid comet
Btw, on the topic of bow special being a meme
Ares special on bow is surprisingly good
esp with the Aph duo boon that forces continuous doom damage
and extended doom
unkempt pagoda
slow cone for 10 tiddlywinks of damage each lol
dry ember
Unless you are using chiron
lament coral
it's not particularly useful outside of Chiron
earnest ravine
It's REALLY awkward to use in comparison to a lot of the other specials. Most of the time, unless I'm playing Chiron, I barely use it.
dry ember
Bow special serves one single purpose
unkempt pagoda
unless you use charged special
earnest ravine
...doom on bow special can be kinda funny though for mob clearing
magic dagger
it works poorly past melee range
dry ember
to spread status for privilege status
unkempt pagoda
even then it's still slow
magic dagger
and poorly at melee range too
dry ember
Otherwise you can unbind spec and still be ok
lament coral
sure, you could put Ares or Athena on it, but it takes a while to shoot and you can't dash cancel it
earnest ravine
Yeah
rare topaz
True
unkempt pagoda
i like the hammer that adds 4 arrows to it though
dry ember
Basically Bow Spec is bad, try not to build around it
lament coral
+4 special arrows is a mandatory Chiron hammer
earnest ravine
That one adds enough density to the spread that it doesn't feel as weak in melee range.
raw violet
i use bow special to hold core special boons I don't care about to force boons I want
into the real slots
dry ember
There are easier paths to walk down
lament coral
I really wish that the bouncing arrow hammer was Zag aspect's function instead
lament coral
no, as a replacement
unkempt pagoda
but zag + triple + chain is so good
raw violet
don't take my crit away pls
rare topaz
Chiron would work great if you got, say, (and this is just theorycrafting) the +4 Daedalus upgrade, fully upgraded Chiron or something close to that, Hermes boon to upgrade Special speed, Ares special and the effect which makes it so that Doom is instantly triggered when more stacks are applied.
lament coral
and on its own, Zag is terrible at working crowds
unkempt pagoda
it's not that hard to get them lol
rare topaz
I imagine this can scale well with Demeter, Artemis, and Dionysus
raw violet
just geometry
unkempt pagoda
all else fails i'll go twin + explosive
rare topaz
But it sounds stupid so don't mind me lol
hushed ledge
I have come to the conclusion that EM3 is actually dumb
Who can guess which thing made me come to that conclusion
stoic thicket
Asterius spin?
unkempt pagoda
betting on the rocket bombs
hushed ledge
no
magic dagger
Who can guess which thing made me come to that conclusion
the joyriding, which does literally nothing
dry ember
the cow cyclone
hushed ledge
although spin is dumb and cost me a DD earlier because i was stunlocked for 90
lament coral
the spin can be avoided, provided you're using the double dash talent
hushed ledge
it was trying to dodge spin, getting hit by chariot, and being stunlocked for 4 hits in a row
raw violet
yeah but...the new dialogue
dry ember
y'know, that's why you use Hard Labor
rare topaz
@raw violet Shut
dry ember
the spin will trigger OSP
hushed ledge
dry ember
500 IQ strat
raw violet
EM3 has new dialogue for everyone
unkempt pagoda
actually em3 is great bc theseus's laughter
magic dagger
don't stand in front of the chariot?
hushed ledge
i was dodging spin
raw violet
just like EM2 and EM1
rare topaz
What is em3...
hushed ledge
literally no where else to go
unkempt pagoda
extreme measures
raw violet
those are not patch-related
dry ember
Hmm, who could have thought that Extreme Measures can be quite... extreme
dry ember
EM2 is slowly losing its favor in me
magic dagger
and EM1 is... cute?
unkempt pagoda
em2 and 3 switch between fun and annoying to me
lament coral
I thought EM2 was a lot worse than either 1 or 3
unkempt pagoda
somehow the platforms on em2 are just a little too long for one dash and i end up on a pixel of lava and die
magic dagger
heightened security
hushed ledge
EM3 just has so many bs things that can happen
rare topaz
Oh God
hushed ledge
EM2 just has the hydra headbutt
magic dagger
Shackle run.
@rare topaz they've actually been kind of popular for the last week or two
unkempt pagoda
shackle is great on elysium
sterile portal
Woo, just got my fastest time on Shield
unkempt pagoda
congrats!
hushed ledge
nice!
sterile portal
and Shackle is fantastic to counter miniboss Asterius
raw violet
1.5k damage for rubble is pretty standard elysium shackle
sterile portal
Yeah feels nice, 14.03. Next time goal is sub 12
unkempt pagoda
i particularly like that one room in elysium where it's just a giant mess of arrow traps
magic dagger
i particularly like that one room in elysium where it's just a giant mess of arrow traps
there are like, three of them
sterile portal
On the note of shackle runs, maybe aggressively fish for poseidon boons?
rare topaz
And well, I want shackle for a trap-based build, trying to use the environment to my advantage. No clue what weapon to pair it with though
unkempt pagoda
not the long one, the big one
magic dagger
shield for extra knockback, probably
rare topaz
I'm thinking just Poseidon dash, maybe max upgraded Zag sword for speed
dry ember
On the note of shackle runs, maybe aggressively fish for poseidon boons?
Fish, Poseidon boon, you ain't slick
sterile portal
I'd say poseidon boons and either 4th aspect spear
total accident, but thank you for thinking i'm that clever
rare topaz
XD
I don't know how well shackle would work against bosses tbh, especially with my intent to use my weapon as little as possible.
raw violet
it would work on...2.5 boss encounters
rare topaz
Yeah
unkempt pagoda
hope for alecto
rare topaz
Should I consider Poseidon and Zeus pairing for my Tidal Dash? That way I can get Jolted also?
unkempt pagoda
hydra no, A&T maybe?
raw violet
Furies, Solo Minotaur, Hades Phase 2
unkempt pagoda
apparently final boss's jars work against him too
rare topaz
Huh
raw violet
Theseus and Asterius pillars do not generate rubble, unfortunately
rare topaz
So basically I'll need my full boons regardless, shackle is just for the novelty of approaching normal levels with a trap based approach?
hushed ledge
shackle is basically good in ely because there's so many traps there
and bad everywhere else because there aren't
raw violet
also good in Styx
hushed ledge
fair
raw violet
kinda good in Asphodel
also kinda good in Tartarus if you get a lot of rooms with the floor arrow traps
lament coral
you have to consider what you're not taking by going with the shackle
raw violet
and by kind of good, i just mean usable
lament coral
and in that regard, it's a terrible keepsake
rare topaz
Fair
unkempt pagoda
i usually just throw on shackle in elysium when i don't need anything else
rare topaz
@lament coral I'm not going for a viable run here, I know it's trash xD
lament coral
go on, dash into the hydra
magic dagger
if I can do a passion dash run, TLC can do a splash dash run
unkempt pagoda
use excal's aura for lava, then splash dash
rare topaz
;~;
So basically, what I know I'll do is
- Run Stygian Blade
- Seek Poseidon, Zeus and Hermes for Tidal Dash, Zeus pairing, Jolted and increased dashes
- Ween
lament coral
just do it
rare topaz
Zag sword for speed and dash distance (which I might fully upgrade if it isn't already)
magic dagger
if you also get rupture you get priv status
magic dagger
Zag sword for speed and dash distance (which I might fully upgrade if it isn't already)
excal for lava disables
magic dagger
upgrades just give you increased damage reduction, it's not a big deal unless you get hit in your aura often
rare topaz
Fair enough
magic dagger
lava disable is the same regardless of level
rare topaz
So if the stars align and I get Posi Dash, Rupture, Jolted, and Zeus duo, gg
magic dagger
remember not to special in elysium, it disables traps
rare topaz
How do I get Zeus duo btw?
magic dagger
just need core boons from both
I don't remember if zeus call or cast work but attack and special definitely do
magic dagger
gl
rare topaz
naive tusk
@rare topaz || https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/608403611151761438/702994019965337660/Zeus_Duo_Boons.png || I made this Zeus duo boon chart in case you find it useful
For Zeus + Poseidon duo, you need at least 1 of any of the 5 core boons from both.
rare topaz
Ty Peach!!!
Also, I'll humour your challenge after this attempt.
While also going for max upgraded Aspect of Zagreus for even more speed
magic dagger
While also going for max upgraded Aspect of Zagreus for even more speed
I think you meant going for max aspect of zoom for more zoom
rare topaz
:D
Immediate issue, RNG
If I don't get lucky enough for Poseidon's Tidal Rush, Rupture, or Jolted and some core Zeus boon, while in Tartarus, it has to be a restart
rare topaz
Okay, little issue!
Finally, at Styx, the stars are aligning. I got Rupture, and now I have 2 Zeus boons left. I bought one, and it had Epic Jolted and Sea Storm. I already skipped Sea Storm -twice- to get both Tidal Wave and Rupture, how likely am I to get it again?
Oh nice, I picked Jolted and still got Sea Storm
sly sonnet
Poseidon Zeus duo runs are so fun
Especially when you get jolted and rupture
literally free privilaged status with a single attack
rare topaz
I won!
Oddly enough it was my best time too xD
Oh yeah they are. I was running Tidal Dash, with rank 2 shackles, trying to win, and... I did.
untold vortex
rare topaz
And now I'm doing Peach's challenge; Lambent Plume and T2 Tight Deadline
dry ember
Duster*
rare topaz
?
rare topaz
It's changed!
dry ember
orl
dry ember
xD
rare topaz
WELL, MY VERSION IS COOLER OKAY?!
hushed ledge
it's always been a ygo reference iirc
rare topaz
What's ygo again?
rare topaz
Me either
Okay, I think Elysium will be my biggest hiccup here
I finished Asphodel with 1:30
untold vortex
A very good one at that
dry ember
What does Pot of Greed do?
hushed ledge
get you dqed
dry ember
xD
hushed ledge
feather duster is at 1 in OCG iirc and it's good but not oppressive
untold vortex
Yeah at 1 it's fine at anything more that's when it gets pretty ott
untold vortex
Anyways more a topic for #off-topic-discussion
rare topaz
I got Second Wave, but I also have Epic Wave Pounding
I have Poseidon attack
What do I do?!
untold vortex
Win the video game
dry ember
what does wave pounding do?
rare topaz
I also have Epic Breaking Wave
dry ember
is that the boss one?>
rare topaz
Yes it's the one where boons with knock away effects deal bonus damage to bonuses
In this case it's +30%
rare topaz
Alright
dry ember
wait
dry ember
what does breaking wave do
rare topaz
...
Second Wave is Poseidon's legendary which makes knock-away effects shove twice in a row.
rare topaz
Wave Pounding makes attacks with knock-away effects deal more damage against bosses. In this case, as an Epic, it's +30%.
Ah
dry ember
I don't think there is a breaking wave, is there?
dry ember
anyhow, Second Wave is still better imo
rare topaz
Breaking Wave is when you slam foes into a barrier, it creates a watery blast in the area
In my case, 235 damage
dry ember
You might still get a chance for BW later
rare topaz
WP you mean ;)
dry ember
😄
dry ember
36
lament coral
hey, where did the deliciousness go?
untold vortex
@sterile portal #beta-discussion-june20 with that please
sterile portal
Uh, did that contain any spoilers?
rare topaz
Didn't recognize anything new fortunately
lament coral
yeah, I didn't see anything new either
untold vortex
All tech beta stuff goes to #beta-discussion-june20
sterile portal
I was pretty sure I checked it for spoilers, but if I missed anything, my apologies
rare topaz
Beat Elysium with -40 seconds-
untold vortex
No, what I'm saying, of you're playing on the tech beta patch every screenshot goes to #beta-discussion-june20
sterile portal
Oh okay, got it
Thought it was just if the picture contained anything new
rather than as a whole
will not post anything here in the future though
rare topaz
RIP
untold vortex
If you haven't be sure to read the #test-branch-readme
naive tusk
There was a visual update in that picture. In any case, if playing with the technical beta, all pictures related to it in the beta channels to avoid any slip ups
rare topaz
^_^
naive tusk
Woo! Congratz!
rare topaz
And now, 5 mins going into Hades.
Ty!
Ayo Peach
I misinterpreted your challenge as T2 Tight Deadline and Lambent Plume, is it okay if I win still?
untold vortex
Woot congrats
rare topaz
untold vortex
You're a winner in my eyes
naive tusk
Heyo TLC 
Well, the challenge is with the Duster so, sadly no 😅
Good luck with the run though!
naive tusk
And more covenient too 😂
unkempt pagoda
huh i didn't know you could highlight keepsakes too
naive tusk
I demand a Bloom keepsake now 
huh i didn't know you could highlight keepsakes too
@unkempt pagoda Charon's items and companions as well!
barren otter
What is the thing to the right of Tight Deadline on this screenshot?
turbid needle
Personal Liability.
Pact option exclusive to Hell Mode, removes the mercy invincibility shield that sometimes protects Zag.
barren otter
Thanks
naive tusk
Or are you? 
rare topaz
I'm not!!
turbid needle
Yeah, it's not even visible in the Pact of Punishment unless you're in Hell Mode and it can't be turned off if you are.
hushed ledge
tfw you get only 2 choices for a boon
unkempt pagoda
you can take your time
hushed ledge
huh i got two legendaries this run by accident
unkempt pagoda
shadow slash + artemis for giga crits
alternatively, athena attack to deflect the large amount of projectiles stuck in your aura
hermes attack/special are a godsend on arthur
unkempt pagoda
if you get artemis on your attack, try to get aphrodite in your special and fish for heart rend
nice!
livid comet
yeah I've got art atk, aph spec. gonna try for hunter dash and then heart rend
chaos has given me maimed lunge but I still take damage
😦
so need to wait
unkempt pagoda
shadow slash hits especially hard on arthur, plus heart rend absolutely destroys folks
bonus points for athena dash
hushed ledge
I want to push 16 heat I need to figure out how to pick up 3 more
torpid orbit
Mirror maybe?
hushed ledge
Currently on EM3, MM1, FO2
Mirror is something I use a lot
hmm
and i'm not picking up TD
tried it earlier
just no
torpid orbit
Underworld customs are alright
hushed ledge
i'll have to give it a shot I guess
torpid orbit
Cause you still get this money back, you know
torpid orbit
i tried boonless run today
got unlucky on the Styx so i had 3 useless boons up to nothing that i had
Id say i did it
untold vortex
hushed ledge
everything came together after a rocky start
didn't get a special boon until right before hydra
atomic locust
hushed ledge
get it maxed
so good when maxed
and ignore attack
it's basically just special the weapon
I got a chaos shield 16 heat clear as well
i now understand the sheer absurdity of it
dire bough
upgraded chaos shield as my first aspect to max, man with ares special/aphro attack and the duo.. it wrecks
also finnaly got the hang of a achiles cast build with artemis, i do now see how damn powerful it is
lament coral
try Chaos with Ares special/Athena attack and their duo
lavish crow
Ugh does anyone have advice on strategies to play with the bow, any aspect (boons, priorities to attack in an encounter)? I'm not a fan of distance weapons and try as I might, I just just can't seem to crack a single clear with this dang thing
torpid orbit
In general, if you want bow to be useful, focus on making perfect attacks
With any of damage bonus (Demeter/Athena but most preferably Aphrodite or Artemis) you should be alright. You can also take Ares or Aphrodite to spread it with special
In case you want to max aspect, id go for Charon and play around Special. You get 7 shots from special that home on enemy and each arrow deals 10 damage, take Extra damage like Artemis or on-hit like Zeus and its good. Demeter is the best because you apply a lot of slow
dry ember
I find Zag Bow with Heartbreak Strike really good.
torpid orbit
Basically, you want to keep yourself in range, being in range makes enemies line up, so you can penetrate a lot with basic arrows, or just gives quarter for dodge
You can also go Dionisis with Special + Charon
Hammer upgrades are pretty nice for bow, mostly they just increase damage of general gameplay, but some give you an opportunity to go shotgun like triple shot or charged special shotgun
dry ember
Just Dash Strike and look for hammer upgrades such as Twin Shot Triple Shot Chain Shot
cunning urchin
Yeah, I think Zagreus Aspect + Heartbreak Strike is the meta for bow at high heat.
torpid orbit
its like, 20% damage upgrade, right?
cunning urchin
It just works. Nothing else required except good hammers.
torpid orbit
Charon is just really fun to play with
dry ember
Yeah, it utilizes the single good boon that Aphro has.
Heartbreak Strike is +98% on Epic
And can scale off crit
torpid orbit
Special has better scaling with damage then normal attack tho
So, special boon is nice
I think it deals more dps, kinda
dry ember
I disagree with bow spec being good
torpid orbit
But less AOE
dry ember
Chiron not withstanding
My runs with bow, spec serves a single purpose, Privilege Status enabler
cunning urchin
Should be 90~100% on Epic. The wiki says the multiplier is 1.8–2.0 for Epic, and at common it's +50%.
torpid orbit
dammit i cant post pictures there
dry ember
Put it in imgur :D
torpid orbit
Epic normal for aphrodite is 98% and for special is 156%
cunning urchin
Thunder Flourish on bow can be really good for large crowds. But otherwise, it's definitely weaker than just spamming power shots and dash power shots.
dry ember
Isn't base damage of bow spec is 10 damage per arrow?
cunning urchin
Attack rate is low.
torpid orbit
But attacks starts off the bat and keeps enemy stunned more
cunning urchin
Lots of recovery that leaves you open.
torpid orbit
And also homing
cunning urchin
Are you talking about Chiron then?
torpid orbit
Oh, damn, ofc
like, with Chiron special is only for shotgun
EXCEPT CHIRON*
But, you know, this 400% from charged special is something
dry ember
Yeah, Chiron can do good damage, but that animation of bow is horrendous using spec.
With FO2 you are asking to be hit...
If you can dash cancel out of it, now we are talking
dry ember
To me Chiron is the Bow Excalibur, except without the protection aura or the bonus health...
But without FO2, Chiron is decent :D
cunning urchin
Hmm. I'd get Deadly Flourish then for Chiron. For 32 and below, I think Chiron is perfectly fine.
With FO2, too.
Well, Heartbreak Flourish does more damage out of the gate.
But you can get Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish and go for the Duo.
dry ember
should i always play on FO2 now that i completed 32 heat?
Yup, I used FO2 since like 10ish heat. It's fun!
cunning urchin
Just play with whatever you feel like. It's not like there's a requirement to pick FO2.
No FO at all can be really relaxing sometimes when you're used to FO2.
torpid orbit
Aphrodite makes up for special slow speed by reducing damage taken
dry ember
Make Chrion Excalibur again
torpid orbit
i just, want to share with you one thing guys that im really sad about
i go in chaos gates for like, every run
and in past 60 runs i had no fish at all
why :(
dry ember
Join the club buddy