the real tragedy is 5 chaos visits, 0 fish
#h1-builds-and-combat
raw violet
dry ember
got some sick boons out of that though
raw violet
you have the same problem I have with sword
dry ember
?
raw violet
dash-attacking before the special ends
dry ember
oh yeah lol
espcially with excalibur
there was a period where I can't land special with excalibur since I always dash so fast
raw violet
lol, wait, hades can spear you through the pillar?
raw violet
yeah, the lasers do that
tepid trail
guys what's your preffered exagryph?
dry ember
Hestia
tepid trail
alrighty
raw violet
Zag
dry ember
lol look at this SF crutch guy
raw violet
if i have to use rail, i want the run to be done quickly
so it can be over
i like Eris too
dry ember
sounds like you don't like rail lol
raw violet
it's not my favorite
dry ember
what is?
raw violet
rail
dry ember
what is your fav lol
stoic thicket
Zag rail all the way.
dry ember
what hits me for 10 here?
dry ember
spawn in does damage?
raw violet
apparently
dry ember
well that's new
raw violet
for that particular spawn in when it digs up
dry ember
then it proceeds to hit me with another 25 with minimal wind up time
raw violet
i usually keep my space from those rats since they have no windup when they bite or whatever
yeah, exactly
i try to stay out of range and dash behind
stoic thicket
GY is a beast.
cunning urchin
So close, and yet so far. https://youtu.be/Ao-qtXdfV_8
I need more EM3 practice. I've only done that fight a couple times.
viral valve
damm havent been killed by mag in a while xD
cunning urchin
Correct.
dry ember
Did you see my hitless Meg fight though 
cunning urchin
No, I only watch good players.
wintry plume
oh damn
dry ember
Maybe you could beat 41 heat by learning from my vod
cunning urchin
Probably not.
covert grove
@turbid arch will probably skip 49 to get to 50 quicker, plus we have quite a few attempts already at 50. Hope you will come back to us soon bb
turbid arch
Not anytime soon I will not.
Maybe I will reconsider in the next update, whenever that will be.
stoic thicket
Well, first try at 32 heat was not successful.
Timer got me on Hades, I did not have enough DPS to finish that, also didn't get particularly lucky in Styx.
lament coral
Tight Deadline is an ass, consider sourcing heat elsewhere
I couldn't get any 32 wins until I took it off
stoic thicket
Yeah, probably. I think it's at least somewhat likely that I might've won if I had more time. At least I could've taken more time at the fight in the end and didn't need to rush.
cunning urchin
Go go!
hushed ledge
I'm so scared of losing it one before 10 lol
cunning urchin
hushed ledge
Hmm, fists are scary and they're the highest heat so not them
Bow has too much chance of just falling apart imo
Rail I'm bad at
I'm not really good at any weapons tbh
Spear I am fine with but I play it very campy and that's really hard when stressed
I could see sword?
cunning urchin
Malphon, start with the Owl Pendant, get Divine Dash or Divine Strike from Lady Athena.
cunning urchin
It's very safe with either of those two boons (or both).
Ideally, Divine Dash > Curse of Agony > Merciful End.
That build got me a sub-12-minutes run on low heat and all the way to Theseus and Asterius on 41 heat today.
turbid needle
16 heat was ez 32 got me good
cunning urchin
The jump in difficulty is pretty big.
turbid needle
yep
turbid arch
It's as I said. Heat works exponentially-
stoic thicket
And that is all the weapon aspects that are released maxed out.
stoic thicket
You can do this, dude.
hushed ledge
Rolling knuckle or dash knuckle hammer first up
Oh no
I have Athena keepsake
They're both absurd
On Demeter
Gotta be long I think
Just safer on average?
stoic thicket
You can abort without influencing the streak, giving up doesn't affect that. It's good to know if you accidentally pick the wrong keepsake or something.
hushed ledge
Yeah I know
stoic thicket
Long Knuckle is probably the best upgrade.
hushed ledge
Fists are my highest heat at 5 as well, although I haven't been struggling at all so far
stoic thicket
Won't matter much if you get the build rolling but it's still nice to have.
stoic thicket
That's actually good, you want the Ares attack imo.
stoic thicket
Merciful End works on any fist aspect, although I'd take Zag fists if I were to plan for that build.
hushed ledge
Roiling grasp, common flayed strike, and Epic excruciating lunge lol
They're all not bad
Lunge seems like the worst
But Stygian soul makes me want grasp
Hmm
stoic thicket
With Demeter Fist I'd get something that just smorcs on the special and like Athena attack or so.
hushed ledge
Yeah that's the plan
Hmm, +1 bloodstone or +38% attack damage
Actually a hard choice
Gonna take the grasp
Divine strike let's go
Ez gg
Epic deadly flourish
This is all falling together perfectly
cunning urchin
Time to get Deadly Reversal from Lady Athena or Lady Artemis.
That was actually . . . not too bad. https://imgur.com/a/pUz8GCr
+1 bloodstone or +38% attack damage
Unless you're aiming for a cast build for some reason, always Attack here with Malphon.
hushed ledge
Picked up rolling knuckle on the second hammer aaaaa
3DD, 275 hp, going into final
LETS GO
There's a special title for it as well
Time to learn EM2 lol
obtuse lagoon
i just tried out hestia’s aspect lvl3 and it’s fun, kinda challenging for the first time
neon fiber
EM2 is fine-ish, it’s just a slightly more hectic hydra
cunning urchin
It's okay.
neon fiber
How dare you disrespect our lord and and saviour
l o n g knuckle
cunning urchin
Hasn't saved me on 41 heat yet.
hushed ledge
It's not particularly special dps wise but it's so safe
sudden dagger
Long knuckle got me my 2nd clear
stoic thicket
I'm about to try Hestia rail for the first time, anything specific I'd need to know about that thing? Any cool builds or just grab Aphro attack and murder everything?
mossy breach
artemis is pretty good with hestia too, the charged shot can crit and benefits of dash attack boons aswell. Piercing fire is a very good hammer
viral valve
http://prntscr.com/suwf88 thats gonna hurt
cunning urchin
Probably not as much as you might expect.
smoky oasis
@viral valve That's what Thanatos whispered to Zag's ear as they lied on bed.
viral valve
than imediatly showed up after I read this.
wintry plume
d e a r g o d
dry ember
Yes?
stoic thicket
Bruiser Snakestones, man.
narrow halo
How can i use the aspect of chaos? What kind of build suit the special
narrow halo
I see
cunning urchin
Curse of Pain and Drunken Flourish are the most dominant builds for Chaos Aspect. Frost Flourish is also strong once tier 2 and tier 3 boons factor in—on very high heat you can't rely on that as much, but on lower heat it's very good.
main osprey
@dry ember Watched your run! Nice job ^.^
dry ember
Thanks! I love that Meg fight :3
main osprey
It was ridiculous :D
sand cape
Holy, there is the sword which I hate, then there is the final aspect which just feel in a whole other level I love it
stoic thicket
I'm torn about Arthur aspect. I love the power but hate the feel.
astral phoenix
Arthur feels very unique because it's one of the only aspects that has slowness built in
Every other weapon in the game feels so much faster and more reactive
neon fiber
The slowness is easy to move around with, it’s mostly about getting used to the feel
astral phoenix
Learning how to buffer attacks on dashes was huge for me personally
Arthur felt so much better when I figured that out
main osprey
Or how to buffer the special
astral phoenix
I usually use the special for disabling traps I don't like
Being able to cover up lava on EM hydra is actually so nice
sand cape
I feel the slow but powerful attacks aren't slow at all when you just dash and strike
cunning urchin
@turbid arch does Acorn refresh in Styx after I used it in Elysium?
astral phoenix
It does refresh IIRC
cunning urchin
Okay. You better be right.
main osprey
I mean, I'm pretty sure I've used it for an entire run before
Good luck storming the temple!
astral phoenix
Does Tiny Vermin count for Acorn hits?
astral phoenix
It has all the pomp and ceremony of one though
main osprey
It doesn't have a bonus reward, so I don't think it's a boss
main osprey
Yee
cunning urchin
YESSSSSSS
main osprey
Nyaa, what'd you just do???
neon fiber
i'd assume their post means the acorn refreshes between areas
main osprey
Well yeah
main osprey
But that seems a bit more excited than just an acorn
sand cape
Oh my god I just got kill by a deadly beetle? Geez
cunning urchin
Uploading video.
dry ember
Pic or it didn't happen
sand cape
Well actually I'm talking about the narrator when you die at the end and he keep making excuses
stoic thicket
Also the tiny vermin is an absolute dreadful monster. It says a lot that I'd rather face a fully armored deranged cow on a murder spree than that... thing.
neon fiber
yeah, the vermin is spoopy
main osprey
Hey, Asterius isn't deranged!!
cunning urchin
I am the 👸🏽 of 🧤.
neon fiber
i wouldn't say he's crazy, he seems far saner than his workmate
which, granted, isn't too hard but still
cunning urchin
main osprey
NICE
cunning urchin
That was gonna be my last attempt for today, too.
Change of strategy and good music did the trick.
dry ember
Well that has to feel good
cunning urchin
Yes.
main osprey
Ooh, I haven't actually played with music yet
cunning urchin
You wouldn't know about that. 👸🏽
dry ember
What a mad lad lass
cunning urchin
dry ember
Don't start what you can't finish Nyaa
cunning urchin
I would most certainly go "nyaa~" not "nya~".
dry ember
Still don't.know the difference but k lol
main osprey
It's like the difference between "meow" and "mew"
cunning urchin
Nya is one syllable; nyaa is two syllables.
I'm actually quite happy that "Mewmew Special" did the trick. As in, going back to my strategy from 0~20 heat.
main osprey
I've seen that mentioned, but what actually is it?
cunning urchin
Zagreus Aspect, Divine Strike, Hunter Dash, Deadly Reversal.
I think @dry ember was the one who named it that because I was recommending it to everybody and used it in all my Malphon runs up to 20 lol.
dry ember
Nah it was Krashercorr
cunning urchin
Ah okay.
dry ember
I just called it the Crutch (TM)
cunning urchin
Right.
dry ember
But hey grats on the win
main osprey
XD
cunning urchin
There I thought you did something nice for a change.
But of course it wasn't you.
dry ember
I'll let the boys know if they don't see it
cunning urchin
Yeah, I don't play the other weapons much.
sterile portal
We have a specialist over here
Just find it interesting as I find fists/g u n to be my least favorite weapons
so seeing someone aggressively fist redacted repeatedly is
interesting
cunning urchin
@naive tusk looky.
dry ember
She did a thing
naive tusk
Whyyy am I being summoned? I’m a noob, I don’t deserve to be here unless I have to use a hammer
main osprey
Nyaa did a thing
dry ember
No you are not a noob Peach
cunning urchin
There's a screenshot if you scroll up a bit.
narrow halo
What is acorn ?
cunning urchin
It's a keepsake you get from ||Eurydice||.
narrow halo
Oh
dry ember
It blocks a certain number of boss attacks, essentially
naive tusk
Is it about flower girl’s 41 heat run? Because I’ve seen in it #self-promotion . Congratulations 🎉 
narrow halo
Yeah
cunning urchin
@naive tusk no, that was an earlier attempt that failed in Elysium.
The one I just cleared is still uploading.
kindred bolt
speaking about acorn, isn't the extra life keepsake always better than acorn?
why do people use it over it?
main osprey
At high heat, acorn blocks more than 100 damage
cunning urchin
Acorn can block 400+ damage.
main osprey
Even at low heat, it's a bit better
naive tusk
I also want to let you know how happy it makes me that you picked Proud Bearing 
naive tusk
That’s a good question, my dear!
main osprey
Don't think so
kindred bolt
i always thought it was confusing when people use it over the extra life, maybe ill level it. its still level 1 with me
main osprey
Unless you're only getting hit by the adds and you're consistently dodging Hades' swings, Acorn will likely block more damage than tooth will heal
dry ember
Acorns doesn't block summons
cunning urchin
Thank you!
dry ember
It doesn't block vase either
kindred bolt
i guess ill try to level it and see how i feel about it
cunning urchin
That's pretty good.
main osprey
I mean, I'm running acorn on 5 heat lol
kindred bolt
ya its not bad, too be fair i haven't gotten to the tooth in so long
turbid arch
WHOOOO DAAAARED
main osprey
Lol
kindred bolt
to*
turbid arch
TO MENTION ME?!
cunning urchin
I did.
main osprey
Can search for the mention
cunning urchin
Was in Styx on 41 heat and didn't know if Acorn refreshed if I already used it in Elysium.
turbid arch
That is one of the more impressive heat runs I think.
Congratulations
Honestly, I am at a point at my life where I am sitting on my desk
eating a watermelon weighing around 9 kilogram and wondering:
"I wonder what the devs think about all of us Nerds doing these ridiculous runs AND succeeding."
turbid arch
Highest I have done was 32, so you got me beaten there.
naive tusk
Ew, bragging. I’m out, peace~
main osprey
Hahaha
main osprey
cunning urchin
Bragging? 
turbid arch
It's okay. Brag a little.
It's fun and fine.
I do it all the time.
Having a little bit of Ego is a nice driving force as long as it does not take over.
Give us some Details
There are People DOWNvoting on a question to nerf Spear Heroes. Now I have seen everything.
stoic thicket
Just watching your run, Nyaa. That Athena / Ares dual room was rough.
sterile portal
The best advice I've come up with for spear heroes is if THEY think they can hit you, they can.
cunning urchin
That's the old one, yeah.
cunning urchin
This is the one. https://youtu.be/euJWbeaslUw
stoic thicket
Point still stands though. Although quick question regarding that room, what made you tick off Ares over Athena?
main osprey
Woohoo!
native ether
Theseus and Asterius have too much HP with Extreme Measures 3. It takes way longer to kill them than without EM3. That's exacerbated by the miniboss Asterius encounter taking much longer, too. The EM1 and EM2 boss fights aren't like that.
@cunning urchin
I've actually data mined the code for EM3, and the only change to health in EM3 is that Theseus gains an additional 4000 health (bringing him to 12000 from 8000). Are you by chance pairing the pact modifier that increases all enemy health with the boss? Because that will increase boss health as well.
Fun fact. Theseus is the only boss that gains additional health from Extreme Measures. No other boss gains health from that condition.
dry ember
What's the HP of Asterius
cunning urchin
Yes, but I've thought it over already, actually, and I'm very sure it's the fact that Asterius leaves you much shorter windows to attack that makes the fight a lot longer.
dry ember
And all other bosses, too, if you happen to know?
cunning urchin
Plus Theseus's increased HP.
dry ember
Krashercorr you saw the screenshot?
raw violet
I’ve ignored it, yes
dry ember
Lol
native ether
The fight takes longer definitely because the abilities in terms of area of denial are much more oppressive. Theseus does have 4000 more health but it's in Chariot mode and honestly Theseus is not nearly as much of a threat in Chariot mode, the Minotaur is much more the danger in EM 3.
I believe in terms of boss health, Hades has 17000, but don't quote me, it's been a while since I poked at the numbers. (17000 in both stages)
cunning urchin
I'm not a fan of Heightened Security with Malphon because my attacks are all close range.
16~17000 sounds right for Hades.
native ether
I'm not a fan of Heightened Security in general because I constantly run Extreme Measures maxed, and that Hydra fight + Security is a feels bad moment.
cunning urchin
Well, on 41 heat it's more a "pick your poison".
native ether
Not to mention Security buffs the Styx traps which hit me frequently and that's literally a stolen Death Defiance there (ntm Hades pots... shudders)
cunning urchin
@stoic thicket I like Lady Athena. She's nice.
native ether
For sure at high heat, everything in general just sucks there. :P
cunning urchin
That's . . . that's the reason. There's no gameplay reason.
native ether
I guess I gotta go clear the rail on 50 heat just to get back my rail king status sighs
stoic thicket
Alright, fair enough. Ares is pretty far up on my "do not tick off" list, with maybe only Demeter in front of him.
I like Athena too, but I'd rather deal with her stuff than with Ares.
cunning urchin
Lady Athena's trial on heat that high can be GGs right there lol.
native ether
Meanwhile for me Ares is on my "annoy at all times because lol"
Demeter is my all time least favorite though. Respect grandma
turbid arch
Ares annoys everyone at all times.
Except for the people who go Hunting Blades over everything.
Oh, and the Merciful End crew of course
native ether
SGG be teaching us core family values here with Demeter. Always respect your elders lest the game become literally unplayable because giant snowstorm
raw violet
yeah, i'd pick athena over Ares in a trial
astral phoenix
Aphrodite spooks me way more than anyone else
raw violet
Ares is easier to deal with and wastes less time
native ether
Aphrodite's trial is awful ugh stun-o-mania the game.
stoic thicket
Truth be told this game has a fantastic depiction of Ares. He's not the frothing berserker he often gets portrayed as, he's a well spoken, very polite psycho, which I just love.
cunning urchin
Lady Aphrodite doesn't spook me because I'd never not pick her first. 💗
turbid arch
@cunning urchin Why did you take Artemis dash over her special?
raw violet
she's running zag fist
native ether
Did they have Rolling Fist?
I will always take Hunter Dash on Twin Fists if I have Rolling Fists (the 6 punch combo) as the last hit is considered a dash attack even though you're not dashing.
raw violet
you don't really need rolling fist to make that combo work
naive tusk
Hehe, Nyaanyaa got Proxy denied lol just kidding sorry about that
Now, I'm out again~
turbid arch
But how do you dash between the first five hits and the second rolling dash hit?
raw violet
since the benefit of fist if that you can hold attack and focus on using your dashes to extend combos or stay mobile and not get hit
cunning urchin
I pick Rolling Knuckle for safety in certain situations. Most of the time I just spam Dash-Strike. Spamming Dash-Strike with Divine Strike is very safe and so is just holding down attack with Zagreus Aspect. And with Hunter Dash it benefits a whole lot from Deadly Reversal later.
raw violet
lol, 3 dashs in tartarus
cunning urchin
I stopped using Demeter Aspect and went back to Zagreus because I noticed that a lot of the time when I try to land an Uppercut anywhere, I take damage from somewhere.
It also needs both Attack boons and Special boons to be really effective.
sand cape
I was just thinking how hard it is to get legendary fishes and I got three in a single run
raw violet
i agree, i think Zag is the safer high heat aspect
turbid arch
I agree on that, Zagreus is my favorite Fist aspect overall as well.
Talos is suicidal and Demeter I feel just does not give enough.
15% dodge chance does not sound like much, but over the course of an entire 40+ Heat run
just one dodge can mean a ton of mitigated damage.
cunning urchin
I actually tried Talos with Blizzard Shot earlier on 20 heat. It was . . . actually not that bad. Being able to pull enemies gives some interesting control over the battle. https://imgur.com/a/pUz8GCr
sand cape
Now time to complain about zero fishing holes in chaos
cunning urchin
Blizzard Shot did most of the work, of course.
main osprey
now that's a lotta hearts :P
cunning urchin
lol
raw violet
what recording software did you use?
turbid arch
Put a little love in your heart.
cunning urchin
OBS.
raw violet
is this just a upload straight from twitch?
cunning urchin
Hm? No, I recorded with OBS and uploaded the file to YouTube. I didn't stream the run.
turbid arch
If its about the quality
Just wait for a bit, youtube is in the middle of some processing.
raw violet
Nah, not the quality, i was just wondering
cunning urchin
Should be 720p 60fps when it's done.
raw violet
I'm trying to figure out the best way to record without bloating my HD
cunning urchin
You can just delete the videos after you upload them.
@raw violet have you updated your spreadsheet? 👸🏽
wicked wyvern
raw violet
gotta beat 57 heat
cunning urchin
I don't have a link to your doc lol. 
raw violet
dry ember
I'm surprised at how much damage you can do with that build
cunning urchin
You don't get the damage until you have Deadly Reversal, honestly. And Support Fire does a whole lot of work, too.
raw violet
support fire is great on fist
cunning urchin
But the real buff was the music.
raw violet
FF7 basically carried you through Tartarus tbh
cunning urchin
Yes.
turbid arch
I wish I could play music during my videos.
Copyright is a pain though.
Did a stream for Smite a little while ago, watching patch notes. For the around 2 minutes before the patch notes actually started, they were playing some crappy music.
Immediatly copyright claimed the entire stream.
cunning urchin
Well, the OST was released only last week. So that helps lol. I haven't run into issues yet with FF music, though.
cunning urchin
Really? I don't remember if that was the run when everything in Tartarus had Bruiser or if that was the run before lol. Probably the one before.
turbid arch
I mean, let's be real here.
You are playing with the fists.
Every run where you do not see Snake Stones in the large hole room with bruiser
is a lucky one.
cunning urchin
Pretty sure I'd just have been drinking water there lol.
cunning urchin
Timestamp? lol
dry ember
Lol that Theseus spear going through the broken pillar
cunning urchin
Maybe I can tell you what I was thinking there.
dry ember
I feel that in my soul
raw violet
28:05
cunning urchin
Oh, a lot of these are just taking a breather lol. But I was actually considering for a moment if Dual Shot + Phalanx Shot could be useful for getting in safely with Malphon. Not something I've tried.
raw violet
holy shield saved you pretty hard from losing all your acorn charges at the start of TA
sterile portal
Using zag dash bow gameplay
raw violet
twin
raw violet
you could do either, honestly
cunning urchin
That . . . that was planned. 
raw violet
wow sold hunters mark over holy shield
cunning urchin
I wasn't worried about the summons. I just wanted to survive his attacks.
raw violet
it's not worrying about the summons
it's getting more damage on hades
to exit phase 1 faster
but i guess you can't really bank on crits even with deadly reversal
cunning urchin
You don't really, though. It doesn't apply the mark on the enemy you hit with the crit.
raw violet
nono
you hit the ads
and they proc mark on hades
even skulls
pending on how long they stay up, so not necessarily worthwhile
oh you did get a bruiser snakestone
cunning urchin
Yeah, I was aiming to kill most of the ads before his invincibility wore off anyway.
raw violet
lol, you got hunters mark back anyway
cunning urchin
The purple miniboss? That one is fine.
cunning urchin
Oh.
Right, I remember.
It went down pretty fast, though, this time.
I got pretty lucky with the build, honestly.
Everything just fell into place.
raw violet
a common thread for most of these runs
cunning urchin
But I guess the build is fairly consistent anyway.
raw violet
yeah, i was thinking that the athena/artemis core might be the fist's better reliable boons
dry ember
Now I'm itched to dethrone her... But I have work to do zzz
Gj on getting to Styx and losing only 1 DD
raw violet
that was a real smooth run
cunning urchin
Thank you!
raw violet
there's a 45 heat set up i've been trying so now i just gotta figure out how to use OBS
raw violet
yeah, i might, i've just been lazy about it
sterile portal
You know, if they ever do add hephaestus (unlikely), I could see his ability split (aka like dionysus having poison and festive fog) being fire dots and creating temporary structures/pillars
would be neat alongside poseidon or even sisyphus
sudden dagger
First time seeing fully loaded and my first thought is
I put in all this effort for THAT?
stoic thicket
It is ridiculously good on a cast build.
sterile portal
Artemis cast is pretty rough on hera bow
I'd typically only hunt for the artemis cast/legendary on poseidon sword, maybe achilles spear
sudden dagger
Now that I have fully loaded maybe I can sell the cast at styx
stoic thicket
There was a gif a couple days back of a dude having Hera bow with Blizzard shot and nine stones. He just utterly deleted Hades.
sudden dagger
How do you get 9?
cunning urchin
Don't sell it.
sterile portal
If you go for a different cast, look for dionysus, poseidoon, or ares
cunning urchin
Try to aim for Hunting Blades.
sterile portal
chaos + artemis i'm assuming
stoic thicket
He had 3 from Infernal Stones, 2 from Chaos, 1 from Well of Charon and another 3 from Fully Loaded.
sudden dagger
I don't have anything of ares though
sterile portal
@cunning urchin you can only get hunting blades if you have ares cast, not arte
cunning urchin
Oh, I misread.
sudden dagger
Wait I get 3 from fully loaded??? I thought it was max 3
Like it capped you at 3 total
sterile portal
no no, you get 3 from fully loaded
cunning urchin
Anyway, don't sell it.
cunning urchin
True Shot is good.
sterile portal
On hera bow though?
sudden dagger
It does get the stones lodged unlike trippy shot
I'll tell y'all how is goes with the champions
cunning urchin
You can't bank on actually getting any good cast in Styx in the first place.
sterile portal
True, but if that's the goal i'd look into poseidon
cunning urchin
True Shot on Hera is fine.
sterile portal
and yeah, that would be my biggest concern
Still with cheap styx shop boons and tunnels I would gamble
Gl with champs
cunning urchin
I definitely wouldn't gamble away my cast on a Hera build.
sterile portal
Some casts are just not as good on hera
cunning urchin
If it got you to Styx, you can clear with it.
sterile portal
because of how they spawn after the arrow "lands"
sudden dagger
I have the feeling that I'm dealing insane damage
But the numbers disappear too fast lol
cunning urchin
True Shot is fine on Hera Aspect.
sudden dagger
Huge chunks from asterius
Yeah nyaa this is great
I don't think I've ever done this much damage
sterile portal
I'm just biased personally
silver solstice
Is there a benefit to deepening relationships with the gods?
sudden dagger
I also have bad news
sterile portal
bad news?
sudden dagger
I think that's what it's called
Hermes legendary that deals extra damage for enemies with no lodged stones
sterile portal
Oh i thought you didn't mean the boon
sudden dagger
Oh dang it's 50% this is great
cunning urchin
Bad News works better with casts that don't lodge because it's a permanent damage bonus for those.
sudden dagger
True
cunning urchin
But it's still good for any cast build.
sudden dagger
Do attacks/casts dislodge stones somehow?
raw violet
Unless the game is able to calculate them in quick succession
sudden dagger
Besides posidon
cunning urchin
Yeah, I don't know how it interacts with Hera.
mossy breach
no you cant dislodge, only reduce the time.
raw violet
For Hera especially, you should think of extra casts as something like 100-300% extra damage per shot
Pending on which mirror upgrade you’re using and assuming you’re loading all casts at once
Is that math even right? Whatever
@silver solstice just story stuff, I’m pretty sure
sudden dagger
All I can tell you
silver solstice
@raw violet thank you
stoic thicket
I'm honestly thinking of getting myself a controller just for Hestia Rail. It is so awkward to handle with a mouse.
sudden dagger
Is that it gives 5 small numbers instead of one big number when it hits
Small comparitively
silver solstice
I can't imagine playing this game with a mouse and keyboard
Lots of cheap controllers on Amazon that work perfectly fine
stoic thicket
It's perfectly fine except for that and maybe a few of the bow things.
I cannot handle playing with controllers for the life of me, been playing video games for a long, long time and have always been a KB / M player. Controllers just feel so unnatural to me, unless it's like a racing game or something.
sudden dagger
Ugh died to a snakestone
cunning urchin
I play on an Xbox One pad.
Snakestones are mean.
If you dash behind them, they can't hit you.
cunning urchin
Yikes.
sudden dagger
I could do lots of damage to single targets but I should have been doing less damage to more targets
stoic thicket
That's kinda Hera bow for you.
sudden dagger
Fastest I ever beat the champions though
mossy breach
https://gfycat.com/bothimpracticalhornedviper ill just post this here again
stoic thicket
Yeah that was the gif I meant.
silver solstice
whoooa
main osprey
what the
stoic thicket
That is deletion.
main osprey
how?
silver solstice
howd you get 9 ammo!
stoic thicket
3 Infernal, 2 Chaos, 1 Well, 3 fully loaded.
cunning urchin
I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf Blizzard Shot in the coming update.
silver solstice
I just did a blizzard shot run and it felt unwieldly
mossy breach
the thing is blizzard shot knocks back so much its not as good against normal monsters, but against bosses who cant be knocked back it becomes beyond broken
raw violet
Tbf, 9 casts of a lot of duos will delete stuff
stoic thicket
Yeah, I'm assuming 9 Ice Wines exploding at the same time will end somewhat similar to that.
sudden dagger
My run just says "perished in Styx" ... Maybe it was the poison that got me. Or those blade traps
raw violet
Blizzard shot I find is quite good in normal chambers if you’re normal casting and just spreading shots around the room
mossy breach
I killed hades with 4 blizzard shots just slightly slower than that, I tried Icewine with scintillating, tried hunting blades, lightning phalanx, nothings comes close to blizzard shot damage (against bosses)
raw violet
I think how it interacts with Hera, it loses a lot of its AoE effects
cunning urchin
Imagine Blizzard Shot on every arrow from a Volley.
Finished watching my run now. A lot of unnecessary damage vs Asterius and Hades that can be avoided. Took some unnecessary damage from Lernie, too.
I think I didn't get a single yellow head that time. That definitely helped a lot.
The AOE from head slams is a bit stupid.
mossy breach
what troubles me is the delay betweeen the slam and the damage
naive tusk
Dat random logo compliment though 
I'm assuming everyone went to have something to eat. Meanwhile, I will drop here that I like Ignited Ichor 
raw violet
i'm watching someone attempt 49 heat with fists
dry ember
I am going through the most painful Tartarus of my life
Literally every armored enemies except for one has been of bruiser variant
I have been denied 4 attacks boons due to AP
all them rare and above
neon fiber
lol
dry ember
@raw violet is the guy doing runs or just an educational stream?
raw violet
yeah, he wasn't getting past TA
raw violet
drunken strike though, so interesting choice of core boon
sand cape
I been playing adamant rail wrong, I'm suppose to get support fire and watch the rain of arrow
main osprey
can you get a duo boon from a trial room? for a duo between one of the gods and one that's not a part of the trial?
sterile portal
oof, decided to do a boonless run for fun? and got to Redacted second stage half health before my own shield of chaos throws broke pots and killed me
main osprey
hey, that's pretty good!
sterile portal
would have been nice if chaos gave me anything good, or if hammers gave me something more than "world smasher"
sterile portal
Oh that's what I did
chaos literally appeared once to increase my cast damage
which would be nice if i used my cast for anything other than "hahaa free boon"
earnest ravine
Oh, the answer to your question is no, Swan Dragon! I think it's just entirely impossible to get a duo boon from those rooms.
main osprey
...I now understand why people like Spread Fire
I don't know that this is properly a bug? If you stand next to a chaos gate and cast right as you interact to enter it (aiming the cast at a tangent to the gate) it takes a lot longer to enter
vestal patrol
So, does anyone actually use the Bows triple shot upgrade? It seems... underwhelming to me
vestal patrol
ah ok, thatd make sense
civic barn
it's not that bad, but you do want to have a boon/hammer partner in mind
vestal patrol
i feel like any damage boost id get off it would be purely accidental
civic barn
i'm not sure I'd say chain shot is the best with it, but it works; if I can get it, I prefer explosive shot with it
peak iron
@main osprey Your Picture: "What if it was PURPLE?"
edgy sparrow
It makes chain shot build super fun
main osprey
:3
peak iron
Eric Andre Yells
civic barn
you just want to be closer to your enemy than you usually are
main osprey
I was able to get that consistently, btw
edgy sparrow
add zeus attack and you can clear out entire rooms while only attacking 1 dude
vestal patrol
Would triple shot maybe be better by itself if the arc was narrower? or would that overpower it?
civic barn
that's nice
raw violet
Triple shot work very well if you’re willing to get close to enemies
vestal patrol
fair enough, i guess im just used to avoiding enemies when i have the bow
raw violet
It’s also great for clearing bigger rooms
edgy sparrow
as with many other hammer upgrades, it's pretty niche
main osprey
okay question
edgy sparrow
okay answer
main osprey
can you not use any Summons in the final fight
main osprey
.<
civic barn
that sounds correct
unkempt pagoda
only skelly and bouldy can be used during the final boss
vestal patrol
i love Hades, but i find it frustrating that a lot of the games mechanics arent clearer
main osprey
any in particular you're thinking of?
untold vortex
welcome to pretty much every rogue-lite/like ever unfortunately
edgy sparrow
Having played a lot of roguelikes, I can say that isn't exactly uncommon.
main osprey
also! just almost got a PB with the rail ^.^
untold vortex
ayy niceu Swan
vestal patrol
well, as an example, the meg summon not working in certain fights, apparently zeus lightning upgrade has an upper limit on procs (so if you use it on chiron bow upgrade it has a stealth nerf)
main osprey
edgy sparrow
(honestly roguelike has pretty much the same meaning as rogue-lite nowadays, let's be real)
unkempt pagoda
rogue-esque
untold vortex
I mean, I'm pedantic 😛
main osprey
hi dad, I'm swan
peak iron
Dad?
main osprey
sorry, reflexive
untold vortex
and so the differences are important to me even if others don't care about them
edgy sparrow
nope
vestal patrol
Im old enough to remember the original rogue games. God, they were awful.
edgy sparrow
You mean literally Rogue?
vestal patrol
I mean, not just rogue, but yes
vestal patrol
i played more nethack at the time
untold vortex
still held together better than FO76
edgy sparrow
But yeah Aggy, I feel it. I'm just saying that language evolves
untold vortex
veryy true
vestal patrol
i refuse to adapt to language evolving
I still speak in proto-indo european when im not online
edgy sparrow
"He's speaking the language of gods!"
main osprey
grunts while banging sticks
main osprey
my cast does +200% damage
I'm in Asphodel
I don't have a Cast boon
thank you Chaos
okay I need some help. I've got +200% cast damage from Chaos, and I currently have an Epic Crystal Beam. Artemis just offered me a Heroic True Shot. I'm using Infernal Soul. I'm really not sure which to take
edgy sparrow
Well, that's consistent damage versus a chance for insane burst damage
main osprey
I'm leaning towards keeping the beam and going for the duo
edgy sparrow
if you are planning on relying on your cast, you can probably swap to arty, otherwise, demmy provides a really good "drop-and-forget" ability
main osprey
most of the damage I've done so far has been with my cast lol
main osprey
but dem has been melting people
which is ironic, actually
yeah, gonna take true shot, see if I can further buff it with better crits or twin shot
main osprey
edgy sparrow
Just replace true shot's description with "10% chance to absolutely obliterate whatever you hit" and you're set
edgy sparrow
potato potato
main osprey
poetatoe thomatoh
naive tusk
You should have included that Prometheus Stone too
It's like one of those Chaos boons.
main osprey
I only have so many display slots lol
naive tusk
Good luck with the final boss!
edgy sparrow
congrats!
main osprey
Athena likes you dude
Okay I have a very serious and important gameplay question.
Does anyone make sure to wake up Hypnos every time they pass by him?
wintry plume
Are you even playing the game if you don't always wake him up
hushed ledge
Maxed out GY!
main osprey
nice!
dry ember
My security log is a blood bath right now
tepid ridge
I don’t believe so. afaik Chaos boons can only be upgraded by getting another one with identical curse and effect.
main osprey
should I do it for science?
I only have 1 god boon, so if it can it'll definitely upgrade a chaos boon
hmm... @naive tusk do you know if Eurydice can upgrade a Chaos Boon with her Ambrosia?
naive tusk
As far as I know, Chaos boons can't be upgraded that way.
main osprey
aight, danke
naive tusk
You could also do that experiment and confirm it 100%.
main osprey
why not :D
...
I probably should've payed more attention to what rarity my chaos boons were
welp, I'll find out next run :3
I'm enjoying doing chaos-focused runs, as opposed to god-focused runs
main osprey
o7
main osprey
hi
main osprey
nice!
hushed ledge
EM2 is hard
sterile portal
Alright, recommended builds for fists?
I typically pick up zeus attack, but i'm curious if other things are better
hushed ledge
Athena attack is very very good
tepid ridge
People love punching many things back.
hushed ledge
It means you can just keep going
tepid ridge
I also find special builds just click with the fists
magic dagger
How many boons does Athena have?
tepid ridge
Art, Aphrodite, Demeter etc
magic dagger
Because I think I have all of them, not counting duos
sterile portal
Weird, I'm used to pure attack and zeus boons on it
i'll try an athena attack/special build
hushed ledge
Athena attack slots well into doing whatever you want
You basically have a permanent deflect box
tepid ridge
According to the wiki, 10 boons not including Duos
primal olive
when will the update launch ?
tepid ridge
There’s no exact date rn. Just June. #announcements has a bit of detail if you haven’t already seen that post.
magic dagger
main osprey
dude
tepid ridge
||Disciple of Athena|| incoming
magic dagger
can't get the title, it's the first run on a new file
main osprey
dude
tepid ridge
What weapon are you using?
main osprey
first run
tepid ridge
Honestly it’s been so long I forgot it forced sword lmao
main osprey
:3
untold vortex
For fists, athena dash, ares attack + merciful end makes for a very solid build
I have to thank Nyaan for the build idea 
magic dagger
I was just forced to take pressure points
main osprey
awww
magic dagger
dang you 4sack rng
untold vortex
Add in deadly reversal and everything melts 
main osprey
maybe you can still sell it?
tepid ridge
Pressure points is great though
main osprey
wish me luck >:3
untold vortex
Pressure points is great except if you're hunting for fully loaded
mossy badge
So with fated authority - when i re-roll a room does that mean that room could become anything?
Or is it like God --> God + (Darkness/Gem/Money/Heart) -> (Darkness/Gem/Money/Heart)
magic dagger
I died
main osprey
you can reroll any of the same laurel, Nskul
mossy badge
Thanks so much ❤️ @main osprey
main osprey
sure thing ^.^
raw violet
also miniboss doors with gods will always roll into other gods
mossy badge
also if i go into Chaos does that count as a whole new room?
i.e. if there are 7 rooms between me and the boss and i go through 2 chaos will that mean that i need to go through 5 rooms or 7?
main osprey
it does count as a new room, it does not count as an encounter
however, the number of rooms per area isn't the same every time
what does the Talos Aspect's "Cast Bonus" mean?
ohh, I found it
after using the special, I deal bonus damage for a few seconds
cursive wing
I went for a weak crit combo and ended up with a legendary blade rift build. First time using it, and omg, it was so OP
sand cape
what does the Talos Aspect's "Cast Bonus" mean?
@main osprey means they will get hit by your cast with more damage, the blood stones that transform into bigger casts with boons
main osprey
yee, I found it. thanks though ^.^
after using the special, I deal bonus damage for a few seconds
sterile portal
Oh boy, how to make demeter's cast good?
main osprey
chaos boons that up the damage
duo with artemis
having multiple bloodstones to drop at once
sterile portal
Any weapon in particular?
sterile portal
Sword or Achilles spear?
unkempt pagoda
i'm eh about spear in general
pos sword is easier to use and you get the bonus damage immediately
sterile portal
Fair, but spear is x3 damage
unkempt pagoda
as with all cast builds, it works best with stygian soul and +1 cast chaos boons
but that's unreliable compared with just having infernal soul
sudden dagger
I've still never taken demeter's lasers. It's on the list
Sounds like you have to plan to get Athena
Aside from EM - are there other pact stipulations that advance the story?
hushed ledge
Demeter cast is weird
It's good if you aren't using casts for anything else and want the area control
Really easy meaty options
GY meaties are so good you may as well be playing Guilty Gear
raw violet
@sudden dagger dying specifically to tight deadline gives some dialogue from Hypnos if that counts
sudden dagger
Isn't guilty gear a weird 3D streetfighter?
raw violet
Guilty gear is a beautiful 2D, superior street fighter
sudden dagger
@raw violet counts for something lol
hushed ledge
Guilty Gear is a beautiful 2d anime fighter
weak moat
@cunning urchin just watched your 41 heat run. Wouldn't have found it if it weren't for @raw violet list. Looked like a real fun run, that deadly reversal coming in ultra hot and spicy
sudden dagger
Hypnos's new dialog is often the most redeeming part of a dumb death
hushed ledge
But I take a lot of concepts from various genres and apply them to Hades
formal basin
Is there any bow build worth using with Charged Volley anymore? They nerfed it so hard.
hushed ledge
In this case, Meaties are putting a hitbox out where an enemy is spawning into so they get hit immediately
raw violet
@weak moat I saw your comment and was gonna let you know I updated it earlier
Glad you found it
weak moat
I'll be sure to keep checking back
I've got the seed with the starting boon I want, I'll be working on redacted spear aspect...sometime
raw violet
I’m sure there’ll be some dry periods
main osprey
about to (hopefully) finish another no core boons run. sadly got stuck with Athena's cast, so no casting against the boss
formal basin
Also, I don't even play GG and I resent that comparison to Streetfighter.
raw violet
I saw, looking forward to seeing what you come up with with Hades
hushed ledge
They're both 2d Trad Fighters tbf
And GG is less frenetic than say a vs fighter
But yeah they're very different
sudden dagger
@hushed ledge thanks for that info - cool there is a word for that concept-i wouldn't have thought to do that
weak moat
wait where did you see @raw violet I definitely didn't stream it
or were you there when I told toaster
hushed ledge
Putting out hitboxes where enemies spawn is one of my favourite things to do because it's strong and you feel so cool for doing it
raw violet
GG came when 3rd Strike dominated so i can’t say it was better than 3rd Strike
hushed ledge
I play rev 2
formal basin
You can even spec into stronger meaties at the mirror.
sudden dagger
Sorry that was high school me resurfacing. I just remember my friend complaining that it was complicated and if you didn't rotate the camera right in GG you would miss
raw violet
@weak moat yeah I was watching toaster do some attempts while working. Also haelians discord
hushed ledge
You can't rotate the camera 🤔
weak moat
ah right
I forget where I post these things
nervous and a little excited. nervous cuz it may just fall flat right out of the gate
but we'll make a solid attempt
sudden dagger
Then I'm conflating 2 separate mid-2000s fighters
raw violet
Yeah, I’m seeing what I can do with Talos but it’s looking pretty grim
sudden dagger
That I only heard about
hushed ledge
The main fighting game concepts I take into Hades are:
Meaties
Spacing
Treating dashes or position in the attack chain as a resource
Threat Bubbles
raw violet
Footsies are underappreciated
hushed ledge
Neutral is great
GG has a lot more neutral than it looks like from the outside tbh
RC's add so much
I'll be up to continue discussing my "theory" of Hades in like 10 minutes but I gotta go have a shower lol
sudden dagger
I'm gonna go back in, do another run, & try to face check fewer traps
magic dagger
Freaking tiny vermin on the second run in a file
that shouldn't be allowed
I mean, there's no way you have a good build, the second run forces bad boons on you
and you barely have any darkness
main osprey
barely, but I got it :D didn't record this one (wasn't planning on a no core boons) but first one with the fists!
sudden dagger
You are making all kinds of discoveries for the good of us all. I hate that dumb little dude
main osprey
(ignore the Athena cast, I didn't use it, never got a chance to sell it)
sudden dagger
Nice swan! How did you decide to turn it into one?
main osprey
I got 2 chaos in the first 4 rooms xD
sudden dagger
Right on
naive tusk
Friendly reminder to take GG or any other topics not related to Hades to #off-topic-discussion
(You may keep on talking about broken builds now)
main osprey
I mean, if I'd actually had any godly boons that build right there would've been broken
hushed ledge
Athena cast performs really well for me on builds I don't care about casts in
main osprey
like, artemis strike, plus artemis dash, I woud've been melting people
sand cape
is 500 darkness for one ambrosia good or a scam?
naive tusk
Scam
unkempt pagoda
if you have no need for darkness then it's fine lol
unkempt pagoda
why would you ever take that
dry ember
one man's trash is another man's treasure
still, i feel like 1 blood for 200 gems is a scame
astral phoenix
I'd trade 1 blood for 200 gems anyday
astral phoenix
I got all the blood I need relatively fast
dry ember
one man's trash is another man's treasure
astral phoenix
The only things left to level are cosmetics
I also recently bought every single piece of music
dry ember
gotta level them heat brother
hushed ledge
Rn I can't play some aspects realistically because I don't have the blood to level them
(zeus shield)
I'm working on getting one consistent aspect maxed on every weapon
astral phoenix
I've got most every aspect maxed out at this point
I just got my first Nemesis win this morning
hushed ledge
My heat is low enough I could probably win with anything
But like lv1 Zeus would be rough
sand cape
zeus shield looks so fun but that base damage at level one is a tickle
im still collecting blood to upgrade the weapons that are most important to collect more
not sure i live the achilles spear at all
cunning urchin
Achilles Aspect can do some crazy damage with Cast builds. +150% damage is really strong.
@raw violet Drunken Flourish has amazing DPS in crowds when switching targets a lot. It performs poorly on single targets, though.
On Malphon.
raw violet
are you referring to...when i was watching the 49-50 attempts?
cunning urchin
Yes.
raw violet
dio attack
cunning urchin
Yeah.
raw violet
flourish is special
cunning urchin
Oh yeah, Drunken Strike. Typo.
raw violet
oh yeah, no, that's what i was observing
it's not a bad idea since you can focus solely on defense and let the attacks just proc when they proc
and just dash around on the outskirts
it seemed to run into the same problem of running dio special on shield which is just the dps for TA
cunning urchin
Yeah, I'm not surprised he didn't get past those two with Drunken Strike.
That's a looong fight.
raw violet
seemed like he could reliably get one but didn't have enough time for the other
much harder and dangerous to group them for a double
dry ember
Middle Management Tartarus is rough if you don't have damage
I've been running 40+ heat all day long
Sigh
cunning urchin
I'd rather have Dionysus' Aid + any Attack that's not Drunken Strike than Drunken Strike + any other call.
raw violet
i find the wavesplitters? are the more dangerous of the MM options
dry ember
Wavemaker
raw violet
same thing
stoic thicket
I mean the heat has to come from somewhere and MM is one of the milder options.
Tartarus is doable, I find. Megagorgon is the only one that becomes really annoying with MM enabled.
stoic thicket
Can't speak for 40+ heat though.
raw violet
i died a lot to lava on my 45 runs
cunning urchin
I think I died to the Furies on 3 attempts.