I'm more concerned about the "mini" cheat by pausing the game
#h1-builds-and-combat
cunning urchin
Yeah, they could solve that, but that's not a big deal either way.
dry ember
Might as well make it official
cunning urchin
Yeah.
dry ember
Ok fair enough. It's not too hard, just a tiny inconvenience to pause the game
cunning urchin
I don't always pause, though, I think. Sometimes the choice is obvious.
dry ember
:D not to nitpick but i find it amusing that you paused in front of Elysium gate in the vid
I do it all the time too
Sometimes muscle memory just kicks in
cunning urchin
Oh you mean when the timer is paused anyway?
I don't even notice I do that lol.
Probably from my early TD runs when I didn't know the timer paused in certain rooms.
dry ember
Yeah. It's just something I found relatable is all.
cunning urchin
Trying to find common ground, huh?
It's in vain. We're nothing alike. I'm not a commoner like you. 👸
dry ember
This commoner made 32 heat two days before a certain someone. 
sterile portal
So like, world smasher is "bad" right? Clearly it takes away a lot of blocking protection but it's a quick high damage hit so...?
errant narwhal
well this was a fun build. dodge everything
main osprey
@cunning urchin Almost made it again, still going FO1 and BP1. Still struggle against him when he spams skulls
sterile portal
What are you attempting Swan?
sudden dagger
If I get kiss of Styx but I already have full DD, does it save it for later?
The wiki says the store won't offer it to you if you have all 3, yet it is offering it to me
Kiss shouldn't be offered here? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717151251330105347/718588213735719022/Hades_00011.png?width=1235&height=695
I'd like to choose it if it will give me another charge, but I don't want to waste 200 gp
main osprey
I'm doing a no core boons run
it won't waste the gold
you can't buy it
also, I'm in the middle of recording this run--in case it goes well--and of course I run into a bug :D
sudden dagger
nuuu :c sorry to hear that swan
sudden dagger
now you can upload a video of the bug separately 🙂
neon fiber
yeah, kiss of sticc does literally nothing if you got max DDs iirc
main osprey
dangit, died to TD. first time running it so wasn't really prepared
was a promising run, too
I was going so fast
I had a constant +75% movespeed, and every time I dashed it went up by another +100% for 0.8 seconds
sterile portal
Damn you WERE speed
sudden dagger
Woohoo! Second clear ever!!! https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/717151251330105347/718592620275826798/Hades_00012.png?width=1235&height=695 - I am joining the DD squad for sure. Also, boons OP
main osprey
nice job!
sterile portal
Great job man!
sudden dagger
Second wave in Styx is also hilarious
Is Fisher King about fishing or about posidon boons
dry ember
@naive tusk I don't know if you remember our first interaction, but it was when you finished your last 32 heat run with sword.
Never thought one day I would complete 32 heat with all weapons. But today it's done
wintry plume
fishies
dry ember
main osprey
woohoo!!!!
wintry plume
for poseidon it's disciple of poseidon
sudden dagger
Grats @dry ember !
dry ember
thanks 😄
wintry plume
You did it. You crazy son of a good woman you did it.
silver solstice
I got the sentence from the admin chamber, but there's nothing in the contractor's list--do I need to go and talk to sisyphus or does it just show up after doing a run?
wintry plume
try doing a run. Usually when you unlock something it shows up only after a run.
sterile portal
Great job fox
stray stump
Just finished Rail H10 with Zag Rail + Tempest Strike + Sea Storm + Splitting Bolt. Completely absurd, 97 damage each shot against dad
sterile portal
Nice job snow, sounds like a fun run
stray stump
ps, how do I get the roles added to my Discord, I didn’t see it in the readme, or I would have just posted the win summary
main osprey
check the pins in #bot-commands
stray stump
Would not have thought to look there, thanks
main osprey
sure thing
hushed ledge
What gods are good with Chiron aspect?
sterile portal
Most of them honestly
Dionysus, Demeter, Artemis, Poseidon, Aphrodite tends to be good on attack and with synergy etc.
dry ember
@raw violet part of the club now
stray stump
Is Chiron aspect good? I almost always take Hera
hushed ledge
I'm just playing lots of aspects rn
proven robin
Yeah, it comes down to preferences and style.
I like it, but it's the kind of move synergy that appeals to me.
stray stump
Mostly I haven’t taken it out since I’ve got Zag and Hera bows leveled but only have Chiron at 4
main osprey
Just finished my No Core Boons run! +180% attack damage on the shield :D
(video on the way, it'll take a bit to upload)
wintry plume
oh wow
main osprey
it was honestly not that hard, with the shield. think I'm gonna give it another go with the fists later
mighty ermine
@dry ember congrats and welcome to the club! now push higher heat with me to ruin the neatness of those 32s
sudden dagger
Nice swan
main osprey
thanks ^.^
I'm actually gonna go for a Chiron run like this--see if I can get super high special damage
mighty ermine
oh swan very nice wow, i didn't check the screenshot in more detail
or yknow, read
magic dagger
57 heat sounds like a good time
really, just impose limits on yourself
unmap some controls or something
raw violet
@dry ember enjoy the accomplishment while you can, til the itch to keep pushing heat kicks in
magic dagger
try no attack bow now
dry ember
Now that's pain
raw violet
just charged volley zag bow, ez
mighty ermine
ew bow special
magic dagger
no attack Hera run
earnest ravine
No darkness runs on tougher heat combos are fun
naive tusk
Aw congratz! @dry ember I had faith in that you could do it 😄
sterile portal
How would you guys "fix" the bow special?
hushed ledge
Chiron fills gauge so fast woah
Also 5 win streak woo
Ended with full hp full DD's and no DD's ever used
Perfect clear :)
sterile portal
Nice job 6000j! it only gets harder from here
raw violet
troll city
hushed ledge
F
astral phoenix
sudden dagger
When would you use fated doors rather than fated choices?
dry ember
astral phoenix
I like fated doors personally, feels better for forcing specific builds
sudden dagger
Sounds legit@astral phoenix
astral phoenix
But I'm also not really a high heat player like most others seem to be on this server
sudden dagger
@dry ember maybe you should do what the game wants and farm?
astral phoenix
Epic oceans bounty isn't terrible
sudden dagger
The reason I feel like I would choose fated doors would be to get Sisyphus or Patroclus to show up for quest reasons
astral phoenix
I generally use it on miniboss rooms that will always reroll to boons, getting boons from inferno gates, or getting more boons in the temple if I'm not using tight deadline
Also do chaos/inferno gates count towards the limit of chambers in a zone or are they in addition to the floor
peak iron
It feels like the chaos gates are in addition, but I've never actually counted before
main osprey
about to fight Hades. no core boons. wish me luck
astral phoenix
Bro what kind of challenge build is that
magic dagger
the kind without core boons.
on second thought, I'll do Dad aspect spear runs after I re-unlock weapon aspects
main osprey
got to second phase, not gonna last long
peak iron
lmao, I walked into a room that was just chock full of elite witches with +HP and Cloning
main osprey
yeah, nope
peak iron
"FUN"
main osprey
almost made it
got super unlucky with chaos boons though, so I'm not super surprised
silver solstice
Didn't get a screenshot, but had my first game with hunting blades, which also had the blade rift legendary and the artemis second cast boon. I died three times in an extremely bad luck Styx run and thought I had ruined it, but I cheese Hades with the rifts and he never broke my acorn. Feelsgoodman
main osprey
nice!
silver solstice
(6 heat)
magic dagger
for best results, pause in the loading screen between biomes
it makes the sound effect 100x better
astral phoenix
Hunting blades is so insanely powerful
It blows out like half the duo boons in the game tbh
hushed ledge
Merciful end + divine dash + impending doom is insane
astral phoenix
I like merciful end with doom special on chaos aspect
You can get multiple doom procs from 1 special
hushed ledge
I have doom attack and special on lv1 chaos
hushed ledge
Yeah would be
astral phoenix
I hope June update gives shield a cast aspect
Both alt shields are special based right now
hardy epoch
Did the update say new aspects or are we running on the assumption that since the shield doesn't have its 4th aspect yet it could come in the update
hushed ledge
Tbf Zeus shield is super unique
astral phoenix
I believe on the list is a new aspect, new well of charon items, new boons and new character interactions
hushed ledge
And I'd assume the 4th would be a transformative aspect
astral phoenix
And yeah zues is a super interesting alt
hushed ledge
I need to level Zeus more
astral phoenix
Zeus shield+Drunken flourish is so sick
hushed ledge
My runs are definitely getting a lot faster
And I'm basically always winning with full DDs
6 win streak woo
sterile portal
Nice! Keep going or turn up the heat!
hushed ledge
I am turning up the heat
I'm doing the heat I need to get the next drops from each weapon
sterile portal
Nice, doing the same myself
hushed ledge
Still at low heat though obviously
sterile portal
No worries, you'll get there
magic dagger
theseus just murked asterius and then blamed me
wicked wyvern
pomegranate
main osprey
as promised!
raw violet
finally got the sub 10 fist https://i.imgur.com/EbuiBof.png
sterile portal
Nice job to the two of you!
main osprey
Nice job Krasher!
raw violet
tyty, it was such a lucky elysium
chaos into patty into miniboss into explosive upper into another chaos
zoom
sudden dagger
Whoa
2nd clear with the shield wasn't even that hard
Zag even said, "quick as a flash that time"
Although I bet I'll improve on that a lot once I have to do TD
peak iron
Shield just feels like a ton of fun to use, but there's some inconsistencies with it that make me not enjoy it sometimes
If I'm holding down Atk, it should always prioritize charging up my next bullrush, but there are times when it won't auto charge on shield catch
And I'm expecting it to
And I get walloped in the face for half my health
main osprey
I've run into that a lot, Nym
peak iron
It's easier to notice when you're trying to play really fast with the shield. IDK what the exact problem is, but it usually happens when I'm trying to do a lot at once
peak iron
I'll be holding down M1, anticipating the catch and rush charge, and then Zag just stands there drooling after he catches it and gets smashed in the mouth
Happens, like, once every twenty times or so, but it feels so bad
Because I KNOW I shouldn't have taken that hit
And I KNOW I'm only losing these runs because the shield is bugged.
And I could play like a huge baby and just do nothing but bull rushes and dash attacks, but
ResidentSleeper
sterile portal
Don't know if i'd consider that a bug but
untold vortex
when those things happen please F10 them ^_^
If you already do great 
sterile portal
Shield catching is always kinda weird
main osprey
It gets even weirder with maxed out chaos aspect
hushed ledge
I think bull rush doesn't buffer properly from shield catch
untold vortex
Chaos aspect from what I hear is it's own beast entirely though 
main osprey
Hahaha, yeah
peak iron
@untold vortex What info does F10 catch? If I repeatedly have this issue and F10 every time it happens, is it something that the bug report can see?
sudden dagger
Aw I didn't get any catchphrase that clear :(
main osprey
Just describe what happened in the box
You threw the shield, held down attack, caught it, no attack
untold vortex
yeah, describe what's happened to give SGG an idea of what they potentially need to look into
main osprey
:3
peak iron
Almost is GOOD ENOUGH
peak iron
Arthur and Guan Yu are both HELLA fun
hushed ledge
Ye and GY gets lots from levels imo
astral phoenix
Guan Yu really comes online with some levels
hushed ledge
It definitely feels like I'm just cleaning up the easy heats rn
Might consider doing EM2
peak iron
IMO, just go EM3 from the start. It makes the bosses more fun
sudden dagger
Hell yeah I'm on chamber 8 and I already have zeus's legendary
peak iron
Zeus is underrated IMO
He's hella fun
Nothing like smiting an entire room with lightning
hushed ledge
He just doesn't really do anything for single target dps
And he doesn't have much utility
It's just all multi-target dps
dry ember
Try thunder flourish with chaos shield
peak iron
It's true, he doesn't melt bosses like Artemis, but no one can do everything perfectly
dry ember
You will find out of that Zeus can indeed do a lot of single target damage
hushed ledge
My chaos shield is only lv1 :p
dry ember
:D
hushed ledge
And I'm probably gonna max Zeus shield as the first shield aspect I max
dry ember
Ok fair enough haha
hushed ledge
The blood costs are real
hushed ledge
Zag aspect just doesn't really count tbh
stray stump
I've taken to not using Calls against Dad because I want him to know I beat him and not Artemis or Ares or Aphrodite ripping off a third of his health bar
hushed ledge
Zag shield is probably the most boring aspect in the game
magic dagger
Zag shield is probably the most boring aspect in the game
but charged throw
Not as bad as zag sword though
how dare you
dry ember
Use the superior call Athena
stray stump
One advantage to Zag shield and Zag sword are that you don't have to think about them. Keeping the cognitive load down is okay
dry ember
You can commit patricide with your own hand
hushed ledge
Zag sword at least does something, zag shield is just "you live more"
dry ember
The thing with Zag sword is that it messes with your dash strike combo
peak iron
I bet Lord Lysol's favorite ice cream flavor is Vanilla
hushed ledge
Ah yeah true
dry ember
Aim dask strike with sword is already cluncky
hushed ledge
Zag spear is honestly really cool
peak iron
I bet his favorite kind of pizza is Plain Cheese
dry ember
The extra range actually makes it harder
hushed ledge
Zag spear is probably the campiest aspect in the game ngl
I thought it increased attack range at first which would be super cool
sudden dagger
Vanilla ice cream is typically higher quality dairy
stray stump
What about the other Zag aspects? I really like Zag Rail, but I'll admit I'm not good enough to do the 44 Heat Hestia Rail nonsense
sudden dagger
Because vanilla can't mask off flavors
That said I like putting chocolate all over it
hushed ledge
Zag fists are apparently really good
Although I haven't used them
Zag bow is bonus crit iirc?
stray stump
Yeah
dry ember
Zag Bow best bow
sterile portal
Zag bow is good but I feel it should offer more
hushed ledge
It's definitely a very passive effect that doesn't change how you play
dry ember
No I really do think Zag bow is the stronger one
stray stump
The other two bows are complete changes, it's fine for Zag bow to be straightforward
hushed ledge
Which I guess is the point of zag aspects?
dry ember
Among the current aspect
sterile portal
I don't mind it not changing much if anything about the bow
I just want statwise more than a flat 10% attack crit bonus
sterile portal
I'd even love something like
20% attack crit chance on perfect shots
maybe even for a few seconds after
dry ember
Yeah that's neat actually
sterile portal
Nemesis rn has 30% crit on special
hushed ledge
Yeah buffing perfect shots makes a lot of sense
dry ember
But nemesis base damage is no where near the bow
sterile portal
Having a bow that rewards perfect shots is nice, and it still fits in with the current and normal playstyle
Nemesis attacks a lot faster though
dry ember
I really do like the power shot critting idea though
sterile portal
Gonna throw it into feedback, it's a more refined version on an older idea I had
dry ember
Yeah we will see. Usually Zag aspects are just stats bump
This is a bit too spiced for that
Would be cool for a 4th aspect though
I'll still upvote your feedback if you write one though
sterile portal
Just did
I think the 4th aspect needs to completely change gameplay however, like sword and spear
hence why I think this would still fit into what we have currently
The problem the bow has right now for 4th aspects is that most bow attacks are too slow (regular attacks and special)
So if we continue the trend of slower more powerful attacks, I can only imagine bow suffering
peak iron
I could see it being like, aspect of the Khan
Lets you shoot it while running
For some price or another
dry ember
Gain permanent damage if you kill an enemy with power shot
Lets you shoot it while running
How do you aim though
peak iron
With your mouse?
dry ember
cry in controller
untold vortex
you gotta consider controller being a thing
peak iron
How do controllers work?
dry ember
Your aim and movement is done through the left stick
peak iron
Oh
sterile portal
what is the right stick used for then?
dry ember
Nothing
peak iron
What?!
sterile portal
So wait
dry ember
Reload the rail XD
astral phoenix
sterile portal
we have a perfectly good second stick to use
astral phoenix
Just got my PR finish time
dry ember
Remember your hand needs to be at the abxy buttons
untold vortex
link didn't work and probably better for #h1-builds-and-combat Dubious
sterile portal
Uh, @astral phoenix I can't see your post but sounds like you did well!
untold vortex
oh this is that channel
sterile portal
Lol aggy
untold vortex
nvm I'm blind 
astral phoenix
Yeah the link bugged idk
peak iron
That sounds terrible. I mean
I assumed they just used the same schema that Bastion used
astral phoenix
I had Ares/Athena duo with Zeus aspect with deflect attacks and doom special
I could proc doom nonstop
untold vortex
noice :3
sterile portal
Oh that's really cool! I had theorized that might work really well but hadn't got around to testing it yet
Were you able to find the hammer upgrade that makes you attack twice with no knockback?
untold vortex
I'm still trying to get athena's legendary but she's holding out on me 😂
sterile portal
Dang, still that's really cool
astral phoenix
I find athena the toughest to force a legendary out of for some odd reason
sterile portal
and aggy have you been picking up brilliant riposte?
untold vortex
yeah
sterile portal
Cause you can literally only get it from that and nothing else
peak iron
Artemis took me 10 runs of only trying as hard as possible to get her legendary to finally get it, that tsundere little baka
untold vortex
I'm aware, I have the boon charts open all the time
because they're suuper useful :3
sterile portal
Yeah, they're definitely a great resource
sudden dagger
Yes
dry ember
That is why they were pinned 
untold vortex
indeed
astral phoenix
Oh that boon tree is dope
sterile portal
Also, jumping back to an earlier discussion, I personally find problems with zag aspects being flat stats only
sudden dagger
I do every run with the wiki and the charts now
Kind of the opposite of the no core boons run
sterile portal
I understand it's to keep the gameplay the same, but because it doesn't specialize in anything most of the time there's little reason to pick it over anything
astral phoenix
Is there a duo boon chart too?
sterile portal
Zag bow and fists excluded
hushed ledge
Spear not excluded?
astral phoenix
I feel as though I only get offered duo boons when I have a core boon from a god
sudden dagger
No that I've found@astral phoenix , but the wiki tells you the dependencies
sterile portal
Spear loses imo to secret spear
untold vortex
personally I quite like zag sword
sterile portal
Really? I find zag sword highly lacking
dry ember
Different strokes for different folks
untold vortex
indeed :3
astral phoenix
The only Zag aspect I really tend to use is gun, and gun is my least played weapon by a lot
sterile portal
That's true, I just think they could do so much more
sudden dagger
@astral phoenix that's true in a general sense but some duos have more restrictive dependencies
dry ember
But yes I tend to find Zag Sword a bit underpowered
astral phoenix
Yeah, the most restrictive dependencies are always the cast buffs of some kind
sterile portal
I think the first suggestion I made was based around given zag sword attack speed lol
astral phoenix
Fog upgrades and artemis giving homing typically
sterile portal
Would give sword an aspect that can build well for stacking etc.
peak iron
Zag aspects are Resident Sleeper and all seem way weaker than their counterparts for no discernable reason.
raw violet
zag bow life
dry ember
Dub you need to try Zag Bow
astral phoenix
Zag bow just feels so much less interesting than both the alternatives
untold vortex
well they cost 5 blood to max out compared to 15 - 16
sterile portal
^
dry ember
Boring is best damn it
sterile portal
No, dash attacking is best
astral phoenix
Even if the DPS is better I really just Chiron and Heras variety in builds
sterile portal
if it rewarded good dash attacks you'd love it still fox
untold vortex
so that is a reason as to why they might be tuned a bit weaker than the other aspects
peak iron
Boring is boring, and eh, why not just give the option to dump more blood into them to make them on par with other weapons strength?
untold vortex
boring is also subjective ^_^
neon fiber
problem is that dash attacking with bow has too little dps for barely any difference when it comes to charge time
astral phoenix
Should I do a Chiron or Hera run next?
raw violet
boring and effective are two different things
neon fiber
hera is best bow
sterile portal
Hera is worst bow, try chiron to mix it up
neon fiber
how could you
astral phoenix
I did just have a crazy chiron run, so I could stand to do a hera run
peak iron
I'm only trying to speak for myself. Default aspects are just boring compared to others, and I'd rather they at least be boring but strong
dry ember
I'll fire all of yee
sterile portal
In that case, try hera with dionysus if you can
raw violet
some of them are strong
peak iron
Boring but weak is bleh
astral phoenix
Is hera trash Stygian soul every time?
neon fiber
zag aspects are boring but practical concept-wise
sterile portal
Go abyssal soul imo if you can
dry ember
Is hera trash Stygian soul every time?
No, but you are basically going all in
raw violet
actually, i'd argue only 2/5 zag aspects are strong
sterile portal
Zag aspects are boring to keep the weapon gameplay unchanged
raw violet
so i guess you're right, they are weak
sterile portal
*2/6 krasher
untold vortex
and that's fine, not everything needs to change how a weapon plays
raw violet
yes, 2/6
sterile portal
I totally agree aggy
dry ember
Fully Loaded Hera and a couple of other chaos boons for plus casts is a league above the other cast option
astral phoenix
Stygian soul feels like I lose a lot with hera, I think I'll stick with infernal
raw violet
no, 3 of 6
sterile portal
like, chiron and hestia change so so much on bow
which is why zag bow has a place to shine
I just think you can make those aspects more interesting without necessarily changing gameplay
raw violet
burst vs sustained damage, really
sudden dagger
Hmm, greater recall is actually an anti synergy with lightning rod, yeah?
sterile portal
Fully loaded hera is a little too risky imo, hence why I recommend abyssal
neon fiber
now i kinda wanna try stygian with hera
is there an upper limit of casts you can slap into it?
sterile portal
Yeah, but lightning rod is anti synergy with the game lol
astral phoenix
Nope
dry ember
burst vs sustained damage, really
With Fully Loaded you have both
neon fiber
nice
astral phoenix
I've had an 8 cast burst once before
sterile portal
There isn't @neon fiber
raw violet
with fully loaded, you'd still have more burst with one vs the other
untold vortex
as many casts as you can get into something I would imagine
sudden dagger
Lightning rod did lots of damage against Hades my last run
sterile portal
Basically, I want to strive for more with the standard aspects. Don't change gameplay, just reward good play
Hence my most recent feedback
astral phoenix
Lightning rod is something you want for builds less dependent on the cast for damage
neon fiber
yeah, lightning rod is kinda wonky
untold vortex
lightning rod is fun, but I keep picking up the cast off the ground
dry ember
Lightning Rod works but it has a lot of anti synergy
trim harbor
I've tried the gun a few times, but... it doesn't seem great to me
dry ember
Like you can't lodge if you want to use Lightning Rod
untold vortex
mostly because oh this is here so i should pick it up and fire it again
trim harbor
I've had a ton of fun using the alt-fire
sterile portal
Hero, what weapons do you typically like?
peak iron
Lightning rod just takes too much effort to get mileage out of, and not enough damage for just letting your cast sit around
sterile portal
what kind of spear build/aspect to you typically play? special? cast? etc.
dry ember
Hey if you want to feel good on the rail, find a hammer upgrade called Spread Fire.
Use dash strike only
sudden dagger
@dry ember I would lodge 1, leave one on the ground, and the 3rd one I usually forgot about
trim harbor
I prefer just a good ol' attack build with the spear
neon fiber
ranged weapons do take some time getting used to
sterile portal
If you like attack look into Zag or Eris aspects and go ham with high damage fast attacks
neon fiber
i suggest zeus attack boon with the g u n
sudden dagger
Also one of those glowy Elysium slow arrows just killed me, so you shouldn't listen to my gameplay opinions
dry ember
Yeah that's probably the best way to do it Patrick, but that's a lot of work for not a lot of reward...
neon fiber
it's one of the attack boons that synegize best with it imo
dry ember
There are better Duo boons
sudden dagger
I agree
sudden dagger
Something is pretty morale boosting though about hiding behind a pillar and seeing Hades taking all this damage constantly lol
peak iron
Wait, what, I thought I had connected with the hivemind
dry ember
What hivemind?
neon fiber
it's aight, we all die to stupid deaths every now and then
neon fiber
this comes from someone who ran head first into the final bosses' amphorae and got stunlocked to death
dry ember
I'm not getting this reference sorry :D
neon fiber
also isn't that elon the musky's child meme name?
trim harbor
Pff
sudden dagger
@neon fiber on the bright side, i got brand new hypnos dialog from it :D
peak iron
Elon the MuskyHusky
peak iron
uwu
dry ember
Me neither
sudden dagger
this comes from someone who ran head first into the final bosses' amphorae and got stunlocked to death
@neon fiber never done that before lol
peak iron
Hey, as long as you're having fun, you're winning.
dry ember
First run is the hardest
trim harbor
I'm just... really bad at the Theseus fight
sterile portal
First run is for sure the hardest
magic dagger
going for a first-run clear right now
raw violet
everyone is bad at the theseus fight
neon fiber
yeah, theseus is a pretty consistent roadblock
magic dagger
and we have a run
raw violet
until they are not
magic dagger
dry ember
Actually I did beat the game, just so I don't mislead anyone lol
neon fiber
normal attack boon though
that's a pretty big oof
raw violet
ah yes, the vorime rng
peak iron
@magic dagger Congrats on your new PB clear time there
trim harbor
Are normal attack boons bad?
sudden dagger
I remember the advice someone gave me about theseus. Watch what he does after he throws the spear
trim harbor
They're my favorites to take usually
sterile portal
Nice lord lysol
dry ember
No they are great
neon fiber
i mean as in rarity
trim harbor
oh rip
dry ember
Some weapon prefer certain attack boons
neon fiber
back to the bull and the dull
i suggest you cheese asterius first and then focus on theseus
magic dagger
merciful end will be helpful
dry ember
If you want some good combo, we can probably offer you some
magic dagger
I think I'll actually be able to deal damage in elysium this time
neon fiber
if you dash his way when he's about to hit you or just deadass bullrush into him when he's charging you can avoid most of asterius' attacks
trim harbor
Oh yeah, Asterius isn't the problem
astral phoenix
Or you could just force blackout everygame you get even one dionysus build
raw violet
for the most part, rarity doesn't matter
astral phoenix
Rarity is just bigger numbers, outside of legendary and duo rarity boons
raw violet
but it's a nice way to min-max and make a run easier
dry ember
Don't take a common Hunter Dash, but a Divine Dash is good no matter the rarity
peak iron
Rarity matters most for Hermes boons
But hermes boons are still good when they're common.
sterile portal
Also, this may be controversial but I actually really enjoy world smasher
astral phoenix
Personally I tend to force duo/legendary boons based off of my first floor rewards
dry ember
I constantly take common Hermes boons over rare or epic ones tbh
raw violet
nothing controversial about your opinion
dry ember
Just depends on what you need
Also, this may be controversial but I actually really enjoy world smasher
Lol look at this noob
astral phoenix
Hermes also feels like the only god who's legendary boon I can consistently get
sterile portal
^ there it is
peak iron
I will take Greatest Reflex over literally anything else Hermes has to offer
dry ember
Yes
peak iron
I will take Greatest Reflex over his Legendary boons
peak iron
I Am The Fast.
dry ember
Even common reflex is better than most other Hermes boons
raw violet
special flourish > reflex on guan yu
astral phoenix
I'm a sucker for Bad news and Greater Recall tbh
peak iron
Disagree
neon fiber
wait theseus? which bit do you have difficulties with?
dry ember
3 dashes can make Hades fight a cake walk
trim harbor
Theseus himself is a big ol' bastard
peak iron
Actually, Dubious, if I theoretically had Hunting Blades and I was offered Bad News and Greatest Reflex, I would take bad news, but ONLY if GR was common.
neon fiber
lol
welcome to the theseus hate club
peak iron
I Love Theseus, Don't @ Me.
astral phoenix
Theseus as a WWE superstar hamming it up for the crowd is truly inspired
neon fiber
mechanics-wise i'd suggest trying to cheese behind him and hitting him when he's moving
he's also unable to block while he's using his call
dry ember
If there is only Theseus left, dodge the spear and attack when he turns his back
If he summons the gods then... dodge the explosion
He is also vulnerable when he does so
astral phoenix
He also just dies to Blade Rifts, a fully charged Ares call will kill him from half HP
trim harbor
Oh, don't get me wrong, he's funny as hell
raw violet
Special flourish > reflex on guan yu https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/718658242489745408/Hades_00007.png
trim harbor
oop
raw violet
also, common boons
astral phoenix
32 heat wow
neon fiber
beware the +6% chance
raw violet
wow, did you just turtle that whole run, fox?
sterile portal
Beautiful runs you two
dry ember
Didn't get Charged Skewer till 2nd room Elysium mate
raw violet
haha
dry ember
Also lol at 80% 60% HL
What are you afraid of bro
Everything one shot you anyway
80% or 100%
sudden dagger
About theseus, in my first few runs I killed asterius, and then immediately died to the (improved?) Theseus. Since then I've always killed that bugger first or died trying
dry ember
Smh my head
neon fiber
GY do be like that
sterile portal
He's at 60% not 80%
neon fiber
it's still GY though
magic dagger
merciful end damage is in addition to the base doom damage, correct?
peak iron
Don't make fun of Fox, he can't read 😦
raw violet
says the guy with no DDs left
neon fiber
that thing gives you the consistency and physical resilience of a sheet of wet paper
sterile portal
@sudden dagger Theseus only gets harder at 50%, or 33% with EM
sterile portal
and I believe so lord lysol
peak iron
Just get good
neon fiber
just don't die 4head
peak iron
Pro Tip: Hit the Hades until it dies.
dry ember
Thank you Doom
peak iron
Heavily Distorted Bass Begins To Play
neon fiber
F
raw violet
F
tbh, it's not like i wasn't trying to get Reflex
i did want it
but i'm not gonna say no to epic flourish
2 left to get sub 12 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/718660436601471026/Hades_00022.png
sudden dagger
@sterile portal oh in that case I was probably just face checking his spear in those early days
dry ember
Look at that routing smh
sterile portal
Very possible
raw violet
lol
dry ember
Jk that's nasty lol
sterile portal
Even routing that's beautiful
dry ember
I'm moist
sudden dagger
Maybe I'll try focusing asterius first for a change next time
raw violet
if i could route, i'd have sub 8s probably
sudden dagger
But it will feel pretty weird
hushed ledge
I generally try to focus asterius first because I'd rather not deal with him and call
Also because he is the biggest aggressive threat
astral phoenix
I always focus asterius first, if only because he tends to stay closer
dry ember
Yeah can focus the cow first imo
smoky narwhal
if i get the minotour miniboss ill kill him early if not asterius ded
astral phoenix
I think I've only killed Theseus first once
hushed ledge
I have once iirc and then only because my build was so bonkers I could like 3 shot him iirc
smoky narwhal
adamant rail with rocket launcher thingy and a few other upgrades i cant remember did over 1k easily
sudden dagger
Does chthonic vitality scale with Demeter's health restoration boon?
sudden dagger
Rofl
raw violet
spicy 4
sudden dagger
Damn
astral phoenix
That's actually super interesting
sudden dagger
There really is no point in choosing it ever, then. Unless you're going for the prophesy
astral phoenix
Guan yu max LC run inc
sudden dagger
LC a pact thing?
astral phoenix
Ares Athena always tend to be my favorite shield builds
hushed ledge
Merciful end is obviously absurd
astral phoenix
Merciful end is just so strong
smoky narwhal
whats that
dry ember
Yup
hushed ledge
I'm imagining merciful end on release shield and oh no
dry ember
Lasting Consequences limits healings you receive
hushed ledge
(release shield deflected instead of blocking)
dry ember
At max it's -100%
smoky narwhal
geeeez
dry ember
So no healing
smoky narwhal
uhc
astral phoenix
It doesn't seem to effect Guan yu healing yeah
sterile portal
GY healing goes through really? that's fantastic
dry ember
Yuo
I'm surprised when I learned about that too
Pretty sure GY healing isn't affected by plus healing boons from Demter either
It's a flat 1hp per hit always
neon fiber
It might also be its “reduces healing effects” effect affecting itself
Because it also did that, right?
dry ember
Yeah I think GY healing is coded as its own thing
Without any interaction
Which makes sense for the Aspect
sudden dagger
Me: this is a lot of enemies!
Also me: oh this is a Hades timed chamber
sterile portal
Lol, I do that every time
hushed ledge
Big mood
sudden dagger
Maybe I'll dream about fishing with my buddy Kaos
hushed ledge
Had literally that earlier "oh this is a lot of enemies, just focus the spawners and then clean up the rest"
"Oh wait that sound means it's timed that explains a lot"
main osprey
Like a bank between runs?
sudden dagger
I had exactly 24 coin lol
If he gave me 1 more I could have bought some darkness
But he knows that if I die he gets everything I'm holding
Does he go through pockets do you think? Or is it more elegant than that
magic dagger
started phase two with 11 health
astral phoenix
I imagine when you melt into the river it just kind of falls away from you
magic dagger
He hit me with a cast when he was at about 1/8 health
hushed ledge
F
astral phoenix
Also did y'all know you can fish in chaos?
112 hours and I just found that out this run
turbid needle
main osprey
Super low chance, good find!
astral phoenix
Wait void skate is the legendary fish?
main osprey
Oof, Schpoon
astral phoenix
That's what I caught this run
main osprey
Nice!
Yeah, it gives a really good reward too ^.^
I still haven't found one of those (caught a different one)
astral phoenix
It seems like Bad News improves the damage from Scintillating Feast
sterile portal
Twin Shot and Chain Shot together are just so so beautiful
main osprey
You need the rod and a lotta luck
:P
Spamming chaos helps
And Huge Catch does affect it, just not required
sterile portal
Triple Shot is nice but Twin shot tho
astral phoenix
I got it without huge catch
I'm about to clean up hades and find out what it sells for
main osprey
Nice!
astral phoenix
Super fun bow build, stygian soul was a great suggestion
Voidskate is worth 1 ambrosia
sterile portal
As much as I love getting thumbs up on feedback, there's a very special feeling for splitting people 50/50
main osprey
Lol yeah
sterile portal
oh wow, third boon i get on a hestia rail run is heart rend
trim harbor
Maybe I should do a run where I ask what to take here each time
maybe itll end up being the one I win with
cunning urchin
More important that you learn attack patterns and stuff than what boons you pick. 
trim harbor
oh, for sure
I just think it'd be fun
it's like crowdsourcing, but boons
i could stream it, even
..oh, this server doesnt have any voice channels
well, still!
magic dagger
be a twitch streamer like the cool kids
cunning urchin
I sometimes ask here for input on decisions on very high heat runs.
magic dagger
then you can do that for every run
cunning urchin
@main osprey congrats!
magic dagger
why is it that speedrunners and high-heat folks go for styx minibosses right at the start?
main osprey
...I actually agree with that
I usually don't go miniboss first, purely because I don't want to risk vermin
raw violet
generally speaking, all miniboss rooms are faster than a normal room to clear
main osprey
but I know a lot of higher-level players aren't as worried about vermin as I am
raw violet
save for maybe death barge
vermin is more of a dps check so how it affects you is fairly variable
but it does eat more time than anything else
magic dagger
powercouple is usually a nightmare for me
death barge is fine though
raw violet
i'm not talking about ease as much as time
cunning urchin
Miniboss rooms in Styx are also somewhat predictable. The other tunnels can give you a room with 5 Bruiser Snakestones or anything you might not want to see.
magic dagger
yeah, I know
raw violet
but that is also debatable
magic dagger
It just takes me too dang long to kill the powercouple
main osprey
powercouple are super variable for me, sometimes they're a breeze sometimes I almost lose a DD
raw violet
agreed with mewmew about predictability
tunnel end rooms in general can be very dangerous
main osprey
that's actually a really good point, something I hadn't consciously thought about. I generally do have less trouble with the miniboss rooms
cunning urchin
I don't think it matters on low heat unless you want speed.
I can usually clear all 5 tunnels and still have time for Hades with TD2 on lower heat.
untold vortex
@dusty canopy with your post in #hades-feedback that sounds like a bug and should F10 that if you haven't done so already
dusty canopy
I will log in quick and do that. Thanks
untold vortex
no worries ^_^
main osprey
daang, that's even better chaos boons than I got!
untold vortex
awesome work :3
sterile portal
Great job man!
cunning urchin
Master Chaos is a God.
sterile portal
I believe he may be
raw violet
the father of gods
raw violet
and mother
main osprey
I'm pretty sure Chaos existed before the concept of "gods" did
dry ember
ahhhh
untold vortex
Chaos is a primordial being
raw violet
i dunno, this is your guys' challenge, i dun know the rules
i'm just giving it to you
dry ember
well I kinda assumed Chaos is allowex
main osprey
oh definitely
The original challenge was just no "core" boons. it's just bonus points to go for no hermes or any olympian boons
sudden dagger
Besides you earn chaos boons
main osprey
not always, sometimes they're pretty free lol
dry ember
I means sometimes I'm forced to pick a god
but then i sell it at the easliest possible spot
cunning urchin
Yes, and you're not allowed to use that move while you have a boon on it.
raw violet
i think there's a lot of spots where you're forced to take a god
cunning urchin
So like if you pick a Special boon, you can't use your Special.
sudden dagger
My memory is pretty clouded by the ridiculous boss fights I did recently lol
cunning urchin
That's the idea anyway.
raw violet
thems some strict rules
main osprey
yup
cunning urchin
Noteworthy that they're all inferior to me because I cleared it first.
main osprey
I wasn't super strict in my run for normal rooms, but definitely for bosses
cunning urchin
O~hohohohoho!
dry ember
well crap
cunning urchin
👸🏽
main osprey
ah, yes, but I suggested it :3
raw violet
only way to out-do her is turning the heat up
dry ember
whatever
main osprey
I did it with FO instead of TD
dry ember
not like athena cast helped
cunning urchin
Because you couldn't make it with TD2. 
main osprey
I mean yeah
dry ember
I could have made it with TD1 tbh
main osprey
I also haven't practiced with TD like you have
anyway, Netflix (specifically Avatar) is calling me, I'll cy'all later ^.^
untold vortex
have fun ^_^
cunning urchin
Well, I did it with TD2. I don't take forever to clear low heat with no core boons. 👸🏽
sudden dagger
FYI Korra is on Amazon now. :)
cunning urchin
@dry ember you could have made it with TD2 to be honest. That's a TD2 time.
Also grats.
cunning urchin
I found the sack in tunnel 5 and made it lol. I'm pretty sure you'd have made it.
raw violet
in theory, if you got a 5 path sac and you weren't expecting it, you could end up with god boons that you couldn't sell and it would end the run, wouldn't it
cunning urchin
You still had 2 DDs.
I suppose that's possible. They actually have plenty of non-core boons, though, and Persuasion helps avoid core boons.
raw violet
oh yeah, i guess you could just pick a non-core
cunning urchin
I got a Special boon in Styx on my run, but I didn't use it.
raw violet
i just mean, you might save a god room for last thinking you would be able to avoid it completely
cunning urchin
Didn't need to use it anyway because Zag Aspect Malphon.
raw violet
could do that too
cunning urchin
That's an option, too.
dry ember
since reroll gives you more gods
cunning urchin
You could go for a Revenge build with no core boons.
dry ember
also I had -52% movement speed for the entirety of Asphodel lol
cunning urchin
lol
raw violet
that run probably could've been sub 10 if you had core boons
dry ember
shhhh
raw violet
SAVE THE SEED
dry ember
it's gone bro
raw violet
it's okay, you're not likely to get that run again anyway
cunning urchin
Just get the same seed again, then you can save it.
dry ember
93% done
marsh pawn
anyone else have some small stutter after cleaning a room? while the doors are unlocking
stoic thicket
Uh, there's always a little slow-mo going on when you kill the final enemy in the room. It's how the game lets you know that you're done without having to scrounge through rooms.
Or do you mean something else?
marsh pawn
yes, not the slow-mo
also happens during the fight sometimes but its rare
very hard to see
cunning urchin
That's a #h1-tech-support question, though. You're more likely to find help there.
marsh pawn
thanks
turbid arch
It happens so often that you take a chaos curse at the beginning of Asphodel
and carry it all the way into the boss fight. Sometimes even into Elysium.
stoic thicket
Yeah, you can sometimes get a path through Asphodel that requires you to fight very little.
cunning urchin
raw violet
gotta go fast
dry ember
Dang it
cunning urchin
What?
dry ember
Now I have to do sub 12 too
cunning urchin
You haven't yet?
dry ember
GJ
cunning urchin
Slow.
dry ember
No 😩
raw violet
coulda been faster if you had priv status
raw violet
i can't imagine not having done sub 10
dry ember
Two can play this game
raw violet
balls in your court, doggo
cunning urchin
There's no title for sub 10.
dry ember
Also I can't upload long vid on YouTube apparently
cunning urchin
Well
raw violet
that's what someone without a sub 10 would say
dry ember
Need to verify account zzz
cunning urchin
MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE THAT LONG TO CLEAR THEN!
Ahem.
Then your video would be shorter.
raw violet
it's sass day, every day
raw violet
i bet ruthless makes up for not having priv though, maybe?
i wonder if that would be worth
raw violet
i honestly don't know, i did high confidence and heart rend + demeter
dry ember
Priv status
raw violet
but i didn't feel high confidence was all that worth
dry ember
Heartbreak Strike Hunter Dash Heart Rend Bow
raw violet
priv status wouldn't be reliable with that set up
dry ember
Yeah I suppose
raw violet
i didn't even get hunter dash
dry ember
+100% damage seems good
cunning urchin
I could have done High Confidence, probably. Only time I had HP below 90% was vs Lernie and vs Hades, and I could have summoned Bouldy vs Hades lol.
cunning urchin
Should have picked Battie, anyway, but I forgot to switch before the run.
raw violet
i think the balls to the wall would be ruthless + 3 dashes + high conf + jerky + priv + ME build
cunning urchin
It's +25%.
raw violet
or ruthless + dash + high conf + family + heart rend/deadly flourish/hunter dash/heartbreak strike
bone hour glass for ME build
acorn for demeter build
to maintain high confidence
OR earrings without high confidence and thick skin instead
ME build might be better with double dash to start
naive tusk
Just spreading some Artemis love around here~ 💚 🏹
stoic thicket
Alright, so against better judgment I might be tempted to try 32 heat soon-ish, probably with the Chaos shield because it's just the safest. Any suggestions on what build to gun for? Just standard Ares stuff works?
raw violet
ares/zeus/dio are popular choices
it also depends on your heat set up
cases have been made for demeter as well
ares and dio can function somewhat independently on their own
zeus and demeter don't see as much effectiveness late game til you can get their T2+ boons
raw violet
not even chaos?
raw violet
it do be like that
cunning urchin
cunning urchin
What are you trying?
dry ember
you made it to elysium
cunning urchin
Yes.
dry ember
beat sub 10 lol
cunning urchin
I see lol. Good luck!
dry ember
my current run is cursed
cunning urchin
Is this the moment where I mention I got Merciful End in Tartarus on my first attempt at a sub 12 run?
raw violet
i do think that's the only way to make a fast run with ME
you'd need to get it super early
cunning urchin
I just went with Cosmic Egg in Tartarus, but Lord Ares and Lady Athena wanted to help out.
raw violet
I'll probably try some runs where i force early ME to see if I can get close times
but i'm thinking the deadly flourish demeter is simply more reliable/consistent
cunning urchin
Would have been faster with more dashes and a rare or epic Curse of Agony.
That's why I go for that on high heat, yeah.
hushed ledge
I need to try to force a hunting blades build sometime
raw violet
considering i went through to elysium with only deadly flourish and chaos, no hammers, no aphro, no dash
cunning urchin
Thank you, Hypnos. https://imgur.com/a/Hn1vsIX
raw violet
yeah, on high heat ME would be nice cause i think it's a safer build
but it's unreliable and you're just liable to get it sold
raw violet
hypnos is this server incarnate
cunning urchin
You say this server, but I think it's mainly the three of us lol.
raw violet
we all be trolls
dry ember
@main osprey vid is uploaded in the self promotion channel if you are still interested
cunning urchin
No, I'm a queen. You can be trolls, though. Trolls, commoners—all the same to me. 👸🏽
raw violet
raw violet
look at this guy, divine dashing through tartarus