i think maybe do benefits instead of something else
#h1-builds-and-combat
umbral lagoon
cunning urchin
Benefits Package is probably easier to deal with than FO2. I've yet to clear 32, though.
umbral lagoon
^^^^
raw violet
Calisthenics adds an amount of hp that I was surprised to find more difficult to deal with than I thought
timid sentinel
if I max benefits package I can take one off forced overtime and still be at 32
cunning urchin
It's not EM3 alone, it's EM3 with all the other buffs they get that makes it hard.
narrow rampart
I wanted to do a rocket clusterbomb Artemis run, but my first Daedalus hammer gave me triple bomb 
raw violet
I mean, I have to take both but the point still stands
sudden dagger
I'm wondering how much it is cheating to research boon tech trees - do you get that information eventually in game?
cunning urchin
That's true. Benefits Package can give you seemingly unwinnable rooms. But I think with FO at 0 it's not so bad maybe. I was gonna try that on my next 32 heat run, anyway.
raw violet
Triple rockets is great
cunning urchin
Well, you could keep notes and figure out the boon trees yourself. So yeah.
narrow rampart
I just wanted to do the cluster bomb one cuz I never did
Guess I'll do it next time
sudden dagger
But there's no room or object later on that displays them?
raw violet
No
umbral lagoon
Yeah, just keep track of your runs
sudden dagger
Aside from the simple list of prophesies
cunning urchin
Well, they might still add that eventually. The game is still in active development.
It's actually been requested a few times in #hades-feedback recently.
narrow rampart
^
sudden dagger
Is there a way in game to keep track of prior runs, like the summaries screen in slay the spire? I might just not have unlocked it yet
timid sentinel
I got a purple divine strike in the second room on first 32 attempt
nutty
raw violet
You just haven’t unlocked it
narrow rampart
yeah, you haven't unlocked it
young gorge
I would hearby like to say spread fire with explosive fire extremely broken
umbral lagoon
👏
raw violet
Why would looking up boon trees be considered cheating?
umbral lagoon
It isn't lol
raw violet
Does reading bypass some kind of mechanic in the game that I’m not aware of?
umbral lagoon
All it does is inform you to make better choices.
Boons are still RNG.
So it doesn't matter.
Either way, feel free to learn the tree yourself.
cunning urchin
Possibly. Do we know for sure that Zagreus can read?
sudden dagger
I wanted to know if I was looking up information you get later in the game
umbral lagoon
Nope, it's just trial and error.
Everyone learns differently because of the randomness too.
raw violet
But why would looking up something later in the game be considered cheating?
sudden dagger
For example, if I've never seen certain boons yet, I don't know where they are on the tree or how to get them
umbral lagoon
You can't control that without authority, and even then it's still kind of RNG.
sudden dagger
Just semantics: cheating yourself, aka spoiling
umbral lagoon
Yeah, just learn the tree yourself.
That's what I did, and am doing now.
It's super fun!
raw violet
What a cheater
sudden dagger
I didn't look them up
I'll keep playing and I'll probably get a sense of what leads to what, even if I don't want to do the work of manually keeping track
young gorge
i feel like some duos and legendaries you have to look up since they're hyper specific and if you get used to certain boons you'll just never get to them lmao
especiaally with artermis
viscid vale
some boons are pretty easy to get tho
timid sentinel
yeah, I dont see why you guys have a problem with looking them up
viscid vale
unless...you only get 1 boon each time
young gorge
Like, if 1.0 has some sort of boon tree implemented into the codex, would you consider that as cheating?
umbral lagoon
How is this even cheating? Knowledge helps you improve at the game but doesn't win it for you.
timid sentinel
yeah exactly lol
tepid ridge
No, I think it is somewhat necessary. You could have it fill out as you get those boons or build relationship with the god whose boon tree you’re looking at (if you were worried about giving players too much information or spoilers)
umbral lagoon
Knowledge would be cheating if you were being tested on the knowledge.
sudden dagger
I'm more interested in avoiding spoilers than anything else
umbral lagoon
But runs test consistency of skill and your ability to use that knowledge to craft mediocre/imperfect builds under RNG and still be able to win.
There's no spoilers.
sudden dagger
If 1.0 has a feature you unlock that keeps track of boons as your earn them, I wouldn't look them up ahead of time
umbral lagoon
Okay, to be fair, I looked up the fishing rod.
raw violet
Technically, looking something up that you don’t know is probably a spoiler
raw violet
In the loosest of definitions
umbral lagoon
🐟
Would not have bought it if I didn't know it got gems.
Just saying.
I don't renovate anything kekw
tepid ridge
I think starting with the “shape” of the boon tree with the actual boons blacked out and having it fill out through some kind progress so you can try different builds as you go avoids spoilers.
timid sentinel
what do you mean spoilers? its boons
cunning urchin
I would say just keep trying to get all the boons yourself etc. And then when you get to a point where you need just a couple more, and you absolutely cannot figure it out, and it's becoming more annoying than fun, you can ask or look at the wiki.
umbral lagoon
@sudden dagger there's something called a list of prophecies
that lists out all of the names of the boons
so you'll be spoiled anyway
the only thing you won't be spoiled by is the topology of the tree
young gorge
yeahh but you dont know who they duo with though i guess
cunning urchin
It's not a spoiler if it's in the game for you to view.
raw violet
Names of boons =/= how to acquire
umbral lagoon
yup, the topology of the tree would be spoiled
cunning urchin
Some things are just very obscure and you can do 100+ runs and never get it, not knowing that you need some very specific boons for it or you literally can't get it with this mirror talent or that aspect or . . .
tepid ridge
Game design should not rely on the players eventually reaching a point where they look it up on an external wiki. Imo in a game like this (||particularly with the concept of boon prereqs||) that’s just negligent mechanic explanation
cunning urchin
But most of the things you can find yourself easily, even if you might not figure out the exact requirement for how you got it.
sudden dagger
I don't even know what duos are lol. That's something I haven't discovered yet
timid sentinel
why are you guys treating this as spoilers? it makes no sense to me
young gorge
now im wondering how people found out about the pre reqs of legendaries and duos
timid sentinel
there's a story in this game you could spoil
umbral lagoon
Honestly, the process of elimination is a good algorithm.
timid sentinel
but spoiling boons????
umbral lagoon
This will get you information about the existence of duos
stoic thicket
So turns out that the combination of that Rail Rocket shot and the triple special + Heroic Artemis Special is fairly awesome.
sudden dagger
Just a preference to discover things on your own rather than look them up.
raw violet
I’ve gathered you have a fairly loose definition of spoilers and are wanting to do a lot of essentially blind runs
umbral lagoon
So really all that's left is legendaries
which are hard to get prob
but not really
raw violet
So you should probably just not be asking questions here til you’re ready
sudden dagger
I was just wondering whether there was wondering waiting to be unlocked that would help with that
sudden dagger
Now I know :)
timid sentinel
yeah just keep giving people nectar
sudden dagger
Lol I gave chaos so much nectar I got a lock. But I still haven't given a lot of people their first nectar yet, so I'm still grinding for it
I heard there's a butterfly somewhere that I'm hoping to discover
timid sentinel
you mean the keepsake?
sudden dagger
Yeah
timid sentinel
that's probably what you mean
yeah
each character just gives you a keepsake on the first nectar you give them
sudden dagger
I kind of hope Zag can keep visiting Chaos even if he succeeds in jus escape; Chaos is such a cool character
raw violet
That’s awfully specific for blind runs
sudden dagger
*his escape
cunning urchin
I would genuinely recommend staying away from this channel for the most part, and #h1-story-discussion of course, if you want to avoid spoilers for now, because people discuss the game very openly here.
sudden dagger
Most of it I just don't understand at all, so I don't really count it
timid sentinel
Yeah I didn't go in here until I felt I was at the point where I didn't feel there was anything left to be spoiled
raw violet
So it’s not cheating if you don’t know it’s cheating?
sudden dagger
But yeah :) it does give me things to look forward to if I hear something mentioned here but don't know what it means
cunning urchin
Because!
cunning urchin
@umbral lagoon cheater. 🔫 
umbral lagoon
no u
With my knowledge of fishing I have caught so many scyllascions
farmed like
thousands of gems
cunning urchin
But.
cunning urchin
Have you caught the legendary common fish? I hear they exist somewhere.
raw violet
I’m just trying to understand why someone would come to a channel and ask if something was cheating and defined it as spoilers
And just what their definition of those actually are
umbral lagoon
Cause they think anything they don't learn themselves is cheating.
sudden dagger
I regret that choice if words, truly
raw violet
Because it’s clearly not the same as mine
raw violet
So I can’t help answer said questions
cunning urchin
"Cheating" in the sense that it's not the progression/experience as intended by the devs.
dry ember
What are we talking about
dry ember
Doesn't sound like gameplay 
cunning urchin
@dry ember you. We found evidence that you were cheating.
sudden dagger
It's pretty fun asking if something exists in the game, and then people here telling me that it does, just keep going and unlock it. Kind of gives you a nice hopeful feeling
umbral lagoon
@dry ember Prepare to be tried. You have no right to a fair jury.
Hades awaits you.
sudden dagger
See you all later! I'm going to try to get back to Styx - I have to figure out how poison works :p
cunning urchin
Nothing because if I try anything you'll just reload and get another attempt.
Good luck!
May the Nectar be with you!
sudden dagger
Thanks
raw violet
Understand that rng is a cruel mistress
And not everyone is into that
But I’m guessing most of us kind of are
cunning urchin
RNG is actually three mistresses in Hades.
umbral lagoon
RNG doesn't give you a feeling that you are learning anything.
Cause there's no meta-knowledge.
sigh
raw violet
I don’t think that’s necessarily true
turbid needle
No, definitely not true.
cunning urchin
There is no RNG. Only not enough Fated Persuasion. 
raw violet
Lol
umbral lagoon
I'm just saying, intuitively, that if you don't know what you are learning, then you can't observe that you are.
I'm not saying it for this game or in particular anything you learn.
turbid needle
But we do know what we are learning in Hades.
umbral lagoon
Yeah, I'm just saying in general.
In particular, some boons are hard to find.
This is what I was referring to
turbid needle
If no option ever repeated itself (you were looking for one of an infinite amount of integers), yes, that would be unlearnable.
umbral lagoon
Yes, that's why it's a feeling.
turbid needle
I think there's a little more the game could do to teach you about Duos and Legendaries.
umbral lagoon
Not fact.
If we took out the prophecy list, there would be no reward function.
But there is a prophecy list unless you are a newcomer who doesn't know that.
turbid needle
There's a thing that pops over it to make the player aware.
inner kite
guys i have a question about duo boons since im still not sure on how they work i wanted to know in order to be able to recieve a duo boon do you need 1 boon from each god as a minimum requirment?
turbid needle
Each Duo has specific/semi-specific requirements.
cunning urchin
@turbid needle I'm kind of loving Curse of Agony on Malphon, by the way. Been defending Lord Ares all day here from all sorts of attacks calling his Doom and his Cast "weak" and "useless" and . . . 
turbid needle
Ares is fine.
dry ember
He can use some love
turbid needle
He's at worst 4th best God, behind Artemis, Aphrodite, and probably Dionysus.
raw violet
Ares gets all the love he needs from Athena
turbid needle
Battle Rage is pocket Hestia/World Splitter annihilation.
Don't even need Chaos Attack boons, just take Deadly Strike.
cunning urchin
I crunched some numbers earlier today that I think might interest you.
About 4.75 attacks per second with Zag Aspect Malphon and 2 dashes.
That's 5.225 attacks per Doom tic. So you're reapplying Doom every 6th hit. 210 msec per hit. That means you're getting a Doom proc every 1.26 seconds.
On a single target when attacking without pause.
So . . . with two dashes, Zag Aspect Malphon base damage is 61.759 per second or 61~62 damage per second.Assuming rare boons and lowest multipliers:
Curse of Agony: 59.5/sec
Lightning Strike: 59.4/sec
Heartbreak Strike: 58.7/sec
Divine Strike: 46.9/sec
Frost Strike: 46.9/sec
Tempest Strike: 35.2/sec
Deadly Strike (incl. crits): 30.5/sec
Rare Drunken Strike adds 30 damage in the first second and 50/sec after that.
umbral lagoon
Lighning strike (and everything else besides Curse) is inflated since sometimes your punches can miss.
turbid needle
I don't think so, if the hitbox connects it will always proc.
umbral lagoon
Fists was my first successful run and I think there's some broken mechanics with dodging and punching.
Yeah but sometimes the things you punch move away.
and you are stuck punching into thin air
You're just locked in until you cancel out the punches.
cunning urchin
That can happen with anything. That's not what the numbers represent.
mystic vale
Punching into Thin Air sounds like an 80s hit.
turbid needle
You mean taking the finger off Attack?
umbral lagoon
Curse just hit though.
As long as you hit once, you get the curse.
That's what I meant - I was only looking at the lightning but I was referring to everything else.
Pragmatically, it's even better than the others.
naive tusk
@half tapir
@gaunt tundra
@grave compass
Please do keep in mind these rules when posting in #hades-feedback :
Rules for Posting Feedback
- This channel is not for discussion. Please discuss feedback in #h1-builds-and-combat.
- Feedback should pertain to your experience playing the latest version of Hades.
- Post one piece of feedback at a time. Provide context, though keep it concise.
- Focus on your experience. You don't need to propose solutions.
magic dagger
mystic vale
Ez. You got this.
magic dagger
intense fight
cunning urchin
Yes, the more downtime there is between attacks, the more the other boons would fall behind Curse of Agony.
magic dagger
I unfortunately got bonked by shieldboi after I took out bullboi : (
cunning urchin
This was just purely for comparing max DPS at Lv.1 with 2 dashes and no other boons.
Gotta start somewhere.
umbral lagoon
Yup, just mentioning that there are some auxiliary details to consider (esp. for fists, which is my favorite weapon - respect).
Your data is good.
cunning urchin
Of course.
Thanks.
Attack speed isn't perfectly accurate. Might be 4.8 hits per second, for example. But it's close enough to see important differences.
It's not lower than 4.75, anyway.
neon fiber
just don't get hit and you'll be fine
umbral lagoon
The calcs are fine. Compared to the difference in damage from missing hits, the data as presented puts Curse too close with the rest.
That's all I'm saying.
I also dash attack instead of punch with fists a lot, so I'm not getting that optimal damage anyway.
turbid needle
You're also assuming you're landing Doom in minimum possible intervals.
umbral lagoon
I think everything is assumed to be minimal possible intervals.
cunning urchin
I also dash attack instead of punch with fists a lot, so I'm not getting that optimal damage anyway.
The data is actually for 2 dash-strikes for every 3 "regular" attacks. Canceling the combo immediately as dash-strikes recover.
dry ember
To me a problem with doom also is the overkill potential
cunning urchin
Which benefits the +% boons more than Lightning and Doom. But they're still behind.
umbral lagoon
Yeah, you play doom differently if you face multiple foes.
So you spread it around instead of focusing on one foe.
It's complicated.
dry ember
Doom damage is back loaded
Not front loaded like many other boons
So the enemy might be already dead before doom procs
umbral lagoon
Definitely don't play doom like that lol
neon fiber
dash striked with malphon is a good strat
umbral lagoon
waste of precious time
Try to let doom do the most damage while focusing on other things.
For bosses, just run away.
You're getting the damage anyway.
Massive HP bars.
Just my thoughts.
narrow halo
I reached the final boss with disonya boon on my attack and doom on my special
With posion dashes i applay 5 stacks then attack everyone once
cunning urchin
I think it's fine with the 1.1 sec tic. The 1.6 tic from the tier 2 boon, though, is a problem. Great DPS increase on tanky mobs, but on trash mobs the delay makes things a lot slower, and you'll overkill a lot more.
narrow halo
Then doom them with sp
umbral lagoon
Yeah, for mini rats, bomber chariots, or other things like that, I just kill with dash attacks/effects or just the magnetic pull and slam.
Can't think of a better way to deal with those.
Doom only works for enemies that have sufficient health.
Then again, bow is my most experienced weapon.
So doom on attack is perfect.
cunning urchin
@turbid needle can you explain to me how Merciful End works exactly? The game and wiki just read "Doom Combo Damage: 50" without any explanation.
turbid needle
Whenever you hit something marked with Doom with an attack that can Deflect (Divine Strike, Flourish, Dash), Doom instantly fires alongside a 50 damage boost.
cunning urchin
I see, so the 50 damage is added on top.
turbid needle
It's unattached damage, it's only boosted by universal ups.
cunning urchin
I was worried it would replace it with 50 damage, but it definitely didn't look like it going by how fast everything died.
Thanks!
dry ember
Does Pressure Point apply to Doom damage?
cunning urchin
Pretty sure it applies to all damage.
naive tusk
Phalanx also triggers it, right?
umbral lagoon
Yup, it deflects.
naive tusk
How about Holy Shield? 
turbid needle
See, I was wondering if those did and considered mentioning them.
But I think you need Athena Attack/Special/Dash to even spawn ME, and Phalanx Shot is so slow Doom will trigger normally before it can connect
umbral lagoon
But also dash at least right?
I remember seeing someone on youtube use ME with Athena's dash.
naive tusk
That's true 
cunning urchin
I think the tier 2 boons and maybe Curse of Longing need a bit of rework.
naive tusk
Or a buff if they are ok with their current mechanic
turbid needle
Only boons of Ares that needs a rework are Dire Misfortune and Curse of Longing.
cunning urchin
Dire Misfortune is practically a dead boon if you have Merciful End. You're not stacking Doom, you're procing all of them asap, so you can apply a new one asap.
turbid needle
It's like picking up Lightning Rod and then Greater Recall.
Only you're likely selling DM for less than 100 Obols.
naive tusk
What's your Aspect?
umbral lagoon
Like my mains?
proven robin
Is Dire Misfortune the one that extends the lag time but ups the damage?
cunning urchin
True Shot is pretty easy.
naive tusk
Which weapon are you using
cunning urchin
Don't need any Duo Boons for it or anything fancy.
proven robin
Because that actually synergizes well with Merciful End.
turbid needle
That's Impending Doom, DM adds chip for applying Doom multiple times on a single enemy.
proven robin
Ahhh.
umbral lagoon
So far I have runs with Chiron, Chaos, and magnetic fists (forgot the name)
proven robin
Yep.
naive tusk
Well, you can't go wrong with True Shot + you might end up with Artemis' Fully Loaded
umbral lagoon
I am not sure if I should have cast drops or stygian
dry ember
Fully Loaded isn't real
cunning urchin
Impending Doom is amazing with Merciful End, but without it I think it's probably more of a hindrance against most enemies. I'll have to do some runs with it on higher heat, though.
dry ember
It doesn't exist
cunning urchin
It has potential. I don't know.
turbid needle
It's a DPS upgrade even at Common.
Less than 50% time increase with 60% damage increase.
cunning urchin
Yes, but not if your Doom would have killed at 1.1 seconds. Then the extra delay just slows you down.
turbid needle
And thankfully, because Doom is static damage that's multiplicative as you level Doom.
naive tusk
Boons from Artemis I'd go for are True Shot, Exit Wounds, Dual Shot, and Fully Loaded. Pressure Points is optional but not bad
dry ember
Didn't True Shot get nerfed?
dry ember
Just curious, what was it originally?
turbid needle
It just hit harder.
naive tusk
I will have to make an Exagryph run with Curse of Agony + Dire Misfortune + Flurry Fire just to check it
dry ember
Ok
cunning urchin
Curse of Agony + Dire Misfortune + Flurry Fire
Ouch!
Just reading that hurts.
If I had a lot of HP, I would not have a lot of HP anymore.
naive tusk
Impending Doom for added window too. Now that's a mood!
It will be like "Hasta la vista, baby" then DOOM ⚔️
proven robin
Not bad at all!
dry ember
Do you know the TV trope where a swordman do a forward slash and the enemy still stand only to fall once the swordman sheath his blade?
That is Doom
smoky wolf
okay well on the recommendation of this channel, I did an Aspect of Hera run and picked up scintillating feast. That did not feel like a 13-heat run at all
turbid arch
@dry ember I do that on entire rooms of enemies with Dionysus quite often.
narrow halo
@smoky wolf how did you unlocked hera ?
mystic vale
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1018322454569541324/F39157594372D80B5DA2AE790274BCE3ACA48270/
277 life thicc boi Guan Yu. :p
naive tusk
@narrow halo You will unlock weapon aspects after you unlock all the weapons in the courtyard.
turbid needle
Interesting build.
mystic vale
It was fun. It wasn't my original plan, but it worked.
Ares call is always gold for my end fights.
dry ember
Spearpoint in Styx is so good
mystic vale
Yeah, I stopped doing Skelly's tooth. It's such a defeatiest mindset to use it. :p
dry ember
Not really
turbid needle
I take it if I'm going into Styx with one or fewer DDs.
dry ember
With Skelly you can be reckless
smoky wolf
I feel like that's a natural progression as people get better: Skelly's Tooth --> Spear Point --> Acorn
dry ember
And face tank Hades a bit more.
Acorn is my fav going for Elysium
If I already have a decent build going
mystic vale
I used Sisyphus for Elysium. :p
dry ember
Otherwise another God it is
smoky wolf
Yeah, I usually take acorn in elysium or styx unless i'm trying to force a duo
I feel like vs. final boss it's better than skelly's tooth since it can potentially stop 5 x 40+ damage
smoky wolf
I think meg's skull thingie is the only one i haven't fully levelled now
might use it on an easy run just to get it out of the way
dry ember
I really want to do a Stubborn Defiance and Skull Earrings run
smoky wolf
i dunno, even fully levelled i find the feather duster a bit useless
and time-consuming
leaden hare
I'm...... having a little trouble facing the final boss
smoky wolf
@dry ember do it!
lapis matrix
Skull earrings might be good for a tanks run
naive tusk
In my experience, Broken Spearpoint nullifies more hits than Evergreen Acorn because I never get that invulnerability shield
dry ember
Yeah probably at 0 heat
naive tusk
I do like it's leafy shield 🍂
turbid needle
Evergreen Acorn is better if you don't have much max HP as well
dry ember
Since I like to face tank Hades a lot
turbid needle
Otherwise Broken Spearpoint is nice
mystic vale
Alright, finally going to win a heat 0 sword run. Maybe.
I'm using L4 Aspect of Arthur. I like my chances.
leaden hare
🤔 maybe I'll face tank him until I run him through
it's just taking longer than I thought to learn his behavior
naive tusk
I love Skull Earrings! I used to pick it for Styx until a friend mentioned Bone Hourglass, and now I take the hourglass much more frequently
dry ember
Actually is meantioning the final boss OK in this channel?
dry ember
Afaik people do it a lot
turbid needle
#h1-discussion Is the no-no channel for spoilers
mystic vale
I always say "final boss" even here.
turbid needle
And I guess the fan-works channel too
mystic vale
Just in case someone new strolls in and picks this channel first or whatever.
leaden hare
edited
dry ember
I think it doesn't take too much brain power to figure out who the final boss is.
buoyant dirge
[redacted] is quite a good way to call the last boss
naive tusk
@mystic vale they shouldn't with the new server greeting.
dry ember
But a surprise is a surprise
mystic vale
Alright, so let's see how this goes.
turbid needle
Good luck Knucklehead !
dry ember
The end scene says Is there no escape?
The files in the Administrative Chamber say Escaped.
turbid needle
dry ember
Literally unplayable. SSG please fix.
minor ore
how do I unlock the last spear and last sword aspect?
I've escaped once and have fully unlocked at least one aspect
unkempt pagoda
first, spear: you have to have a few aspects of any weapon unlocked, then achilles will have a convo for you
cunning urchin
There's a pin in #h1-story-discussion for the sword aspect.
mystic vale
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1018322454569732633/577566EEB94A459D61690FD0633276EC7E3D6720/ I got full on arrogant and just face tanked the entire encounter. What a silly weapon. :p
mossy breach
YES got ice wine+scintillating feast
cunning urchin
Catching up with the chat on tank keepsakes: Old Spiked Collar is always bad as it is now except in Tartarus with High Confidence. Lucky Tooth is poor unless you only have 0-1 DDs. Evergreen Acorn has much greater potential than both vs bosses regardless of DDs left, but if you get hit by low damage attacks it's pretty much wasted. Myrmidon Bracer has by far the greatest potential out of these for effective HP if you don't get hit in the back (much) and aren't very low on DDs.
Broken Spearpoint, I've no idea. Can't really do any math on it, you'd just have to do a lot of test runs and see how much damage it negates. (But you don't see the numbers when you negate damage, so there's that problem . . .)
mystic vale
Spearpoint is great if the laser whacks you.
Because you don't instantly take 3 hits.
Beyond that, I have nothing useful to add.
stoic thicket
Thus far I've personally used Lucky Tooth for almost every even half serious final boss attempt just before entering Styx. I really like the extra little safety blanket.
cunning urchin
The beams haven't been a problem for me in I-don't-know-how-many runs now.
mystic vale
I usually have him off-screen when they start, so I haven't seen what his tell is.
cunning urchin
It only adds 100 HP to your pool. + some overkill HP, so maybe like 130 on average.
mystic vale
Anyhow, nap time for me. Le sigh. See you in Hades.
cunning urchin
Evergreen Acorn can negate 5x40 damage, for example. That's 200 HP.
stoic thicket
Evergreen Acorn can also negate 5x5 damage, for way less than Lucky Tooth. Higher upside but a bit less reliable.
cunning urchin
Myrmidon Bracer when you have 200 HP, 3 DDs, and no other forms of damage reduction can effectively add 213 HP to your pool. If you also have Weak for damage reduction, the Bracer will add up to 266 HP. And the more base HP you have, the more it can add.
Yeah, if you get hit by low damage attacks, Evergreen Acorn is wasted.
mossy breach
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1030707353545053919/9C8D128DA92341FCF435929791058221E9DB7B62/ Still wasnt as strong as blizzard shot
cunning urchin
Blizzard Shot is broken on bosses.
stoic thicket
Is that a second save file? Because going from 0 to like 16 heat seems like suicide if you're new to the game.
mossy breach
not at all, i dont know why it is showing those stats
stoic thicket
Yeah, I just looked at your Darkness stats and that didn't look like a fresh account.
cunning urchin
I think it doesn't count God Mode clears for the weapons, so that could be why.
mossy breach
it could be as im a scrub who extensively used god mode and only recently turned it off
cunning urchin
Nothing wrong with using that.
smoky wolf
Yeah, if you use god mode and then switch to normal it kinda janks up and shows total clears for all modes but per-weapon clears for just normal mode I think
I did the same thing - started with god mode and then got competent and turned it off
cunning urchin
I never turned it on, but I also never got competent.
stoic thicket
Never had god mode on at all, just gritted my way through there. Paid off in the end.
cunning urchin
I thought I did, but 32 heat Theseus said go home and practice.
smoky wolf
haha
btw, anybody got any suggestions for Aspect of Demeter? Just maxed them out but never used them before
I'm thinking maybe demeter or artemis special and zeus/dio attack?
maybe try and pick up cold fusion
lapis matrix
Zeus would probably work well
Cold Fusion kind of requires them to be attacking a lot
cunning urchin
You could do Divine Strike + Deadly Flourish, pick up Deadly Reversal.
smoky wolf
that could be a good shout
cunning urchin
But Divine Strike works best on Zag Aspect.
mossy breach
aphrodite is good too. The kick hammer upgrade is very cool aswell
smoky wolf
man... aspect of talos + kick upgrade is just making me think of Zagreus doing his best Liu Kang bicycle kick impression across the chambers of the underworld
naive tusk
Friendly reminder to please read the pins in #hades-feedback before posting, in particular the rules 
cunning urchin
Thank you for your service, oh Mighty Mod.
magic dagger
if you run before attacking with a melee weapon you keep some of your momentum, kind of sliding across the floor as you attack. It's super useful against mobs, burnflingers, etc., and I feel like the people who complain about melee weapons haven't figured that out / completely mastered movement.
Anybody agree or disagree with this theory?
Because I could also be completely insane.
cunning urchin
I'm thinking maybe demeter or artemis special and zeus/dio attack?
Drunken Strike is poor on Malphon. That and Tempest Strike. I'd rather take anything else but those two.
proven robin
@magic dagger Possibly? I don't wanna second-guess people's reactions, but it is possible.
Like, I think a lot of it comes down to personal control habits and style.
cunning urchin
I think natural reaction speed is definitely a factor. People with better reactions will have an easier time with melee, and it's more of a factor than for ranged builds.
umbral lagoon
The sliding is sometimes why I miss and get bad positioning though. I might end up too far and not be able to continue the combo, or I get punished HARD after the dash. I don't think I mastered movement.
If anyone has movement tips in general pertaining to positioning for all the weapons, hmu.
I need to get way better!
All I know how to use is the arrow.
cunning urchin
So for general tips, you want to be where you don't get hit but where you hit your opponent.
umbral lagoon
kekw
Also, I feel like the movement is binary.
Like if you pass the deadzone, you just start your walking speed.
I wish we could very accurately adjust speed so I can cheese people behind cover.
Like using shield bounces or arrows lol
But it's hard to find perfect cover cause of the binary movement velocities.
Styx basically.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Or actually, probably the cover is just mediocre if it depends on me being pixel perfect...
Whatever.
cunning urchin
Rather than movement, for spacing, a lot of the time you want to make sure you don't melee directly from the front but diagonally, from the flanks, or backstab them.
umbral lagoon
owo yeah that could be useful
i don't usually think about direction of approach unless it's to avoid an attack
magic dagger
I think they made cover difficult intentionally to encourage you to hack'n'slash more quickly, and not use chain-cheeses.
cunning urchin
Dash-striking diagonally forward to evade attacks is important. You get out of the way of the attack and also get in to attack yourself.
Dash-strike back and forth repeatedly to keep groups of enemies stunlocked.
magic dagger
But definitely have at least one dash ready at all times if you're in their faces and not extremely confident that they'll stay stunlocked.
with styx rats, for instance, it's good to be a little careful.
cunning urchin
Some enemies you can let recover for a moment because their attacks have startup, you don't need to hit them immediately as they recover from hitstun. You just need to hit them quickly enough to stun them during their attack startup.
magic dagger
mostly in tartarus and asphodel ^^^
west totem
When the mod comes and reprimands you
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/496042478760099853/712762629638324406/unknown.png
anyways yall think that the styx doors should stay open after cerberus?
magic dagger
yes, but just don't give him the sack
EZ solution
cunning urchin
I actually find that often if you're too careful with rats and not aggressive enough, you make things worse by giving them time to put poison on the ground.
west totem
:(
cunning urchin
I've stopped using Ruthless Reflex somewhere around 20 heat.
I like not dying because Hermes decided not to offer Greatest Reflex this run or only a common one.
faint vigil
is it possible to have multiple duo boons at once?
turbid needle
Yes.
faint vigil
thanks
dry ember
uhh
I tried 24 heat for stuff and giggles
Made it to Thesius and Asterius
Only be ran over by the stupid Chariot
Smh my head
I got bailed with 2 DDs by Mr. Emo himself, too
magic dagger
I'm pretty sure I'm about to get my first hellmode clear. Run 3, 1 DD, like 200 total darkness
Hellmode feels so much more fun than normal.
...explosive return feels kind of like chaos aspect, honestly
smoky wolf
ok yeah, aspect of demeter is pretty fun. I just absolutely deleted the dual elite bosses in Styx
he was a Satyr boy, I said see you later, boy
magic dagger
two chariots just pushed me into a corner. a bunch of flamewheels immediately piled in behind, so I couldn't dash through the mob. I had to just sit there, in a corner, while two chariots bonked me over and over, because I couldn't deal enough damage to kill them.
magic dagger
when you're using myrmidon bracer, does the symbol mean that you're resisting damage or taking extra?
turbid needle
There's a specific symbol for both, I think.
mystic vale
sings. "I saw the sign, and it means I took a hit, I saw the sign..."
main osprey
(that might be supposed to go in spoilers, not sure, also RIP)
turbid needle
Nah, it's fine here.
main osprey
Mmkay ^.^
naive tusk
It sure is a bummer you can't use Batty in the final fight 
real nebula
you aint slick
turbid needle
I'm sorry, I wanted to brag.
main osprey
...Am I supposed to be able to throw the Aegis while I'm charging up the Bull Rush?
turbid needle
...Can you?
turbid needle
Zagreus, Chaos, or Zeus?
real nebula
you can throw it but you have to wait for it to come back before you can actually rush
main osprey
Chaos, and even when the shield is flying I can still block
that's fine I don't use the rush to actually attack things anyway
it just feels really strong, to have a perfect shield while still being able to attack
I guess no mobility balances?
mystic vale
I need to learn that I'm not yet good enough for High Confidence. It essentially translates to "you will finish Tartarus 30 seconds faster and spend the rest of the run in a panic 'cause you're down 50 life."
main osprey
So you're saying your confidence was too high?
turbid needle
Boooo.
mystic vale
Hmmm: Heat option - Working Blind - can't see enemy life bars.
How much heat would that be, you think?
gaunt tundra
stats hyperventilating because it has been mauling at the final boss for what seems like hours and still ain't done yet
not seeing enemy lifebars might be more troublesome than most would expect
raw violet
i don't doubt that
but traps are troublesome too
and damage control
i'd probably put it on the same level
hard to say cause it wouldn't actually make anything more dangerous per se
fiery light
I'd put health bars at 1 heat personally
especially when you start running the game plenty, hp totals are relatively known
mystic vale
Yeah, I mean, I don't know about you lot, but the end boss, I play differently when he's near his break points. If I can't see those coming...
static crag
so question about duo boons. If I have one, and I sell one of the original boons that allowed me to get it, will I lose the duo's effect?
unkempt pagoda
i think it depends on the boon
static crag
Specifically, for Ares/Artemis' Hunting Blades, if I sell the Ares boon that turns my cast into a blade rift, will my cast no longer be a blade rift even if I still have the duo?
unkempt pagoda
hunting blades specifies blade rifts i think, and even if it doesn't, it won't work
static crag
ya know what, yolo, I'm gonna try it for science
raw violet
i would be curious if you could do that with cold fusion
raw violet
since nothing in it specifies requiring cold
unkempt pagoda
if a duo modifies a prereq, then it won’t work if you sell that prereq
mystic vale
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1018322454570697255/CD1C45E5A0A8733044AB7D77A9B10C73134D1B5A/ This victory brought to you by Divine Protection.
mystic vale
Yeah, there was a time he was my favourite NPC.
mystic vale
I thought Stubborn Defiance would be.
raw violet
stubborn defiance, i think, is infinitely more useful on the higher heats where you can't heal
mystic vale
It seemed like having an insurance policy for every room is probably good when everything is roided up.
I mean by then you're probably pretty used to the end boss and only need one DD for him too.
raw violet
i don't know about other people but hades gives me way less of a problem than theseus and minotaur at high heat
raw violet
pending on what he summons during phase 1
dry ember
And yeah, phase 2 Hades is easier than phase 1 I find
mystic vale
I'm trying to figure out why FO2 is so popular. It seems like there's less painful ways to heat up. But that may just be me.
raw violet
i like the pacing of the game on FO2 more
mystic vale
But yeah, I've had some annoying miniboss summons in phase one.
dry ember
I think it's a "must" on like 12 heat and above
raw violet
as a baseline
dry ember
And also mobs spawn faster
unkempt pagoda
it makes waves spawn faster
dry ember
which is very good for TD
mystic vale
I mean I'm still in single digit heats, so...
unkempt pagoda
good for the timer heat
dry ember
basically there is a synergy between FO and TD.
Does Theseus bomb hit for 60 as base damage?
I'm chunked down by 60 damage moves
raw violet
it hits for a truckload, that's for sure
raw violet
the bombs he drops are not trivial at all
i would probably rather eat a mino swing
but not the spin to win swing
dry ember
I'm slowly getting a read on the cow
raw violet
i'll eat a bomb for that
dry ember
behind him is safe
everywhere else is not
and yeah the spin move is different
dash behind the cow and go wild
mystic vale
That sounds so redneck. "Just get behind the cow and stay there all night."
mystic vale
Long Knuckle, Breaching Cross, and max Aspect Zag. This should work.
mystic vale
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1018322454570945110/70EE8F1B7CBAD238716A791934AA35FC4BC74154/ Would have been flawless if my acorn were maxed.
sudden dagger
Here's a question: I just had a conversation with Nyx that referenced a renovation option for setting Orpheus free. However when I looked in the menu, I didn't see anything like that at all. What should I have seen?
tepid ridge
Nothing yet, try a run or two and check back
raw violet
that's different
raw violet
but yeah, a lot of the renovation triggers will require another run to progress it to the actual contractor
tepid ridge
Also @sudden dagger just fyi, Nyx’s quests take forever, there might be a few times per quest where you think it will just be one more run and then she gives you another piece of dialogue or another step procs that you have to do a run to refresh. Sounds like you’re on the right track though, just keep checking back with Mother Night and keep some permanent resources at hand when options pop up
raw violet
often times, i find it doesn't matter cause i need runs for the necessary resources anyway
raw violet
everything can be solved in the game with more runs
sudden dagger
I didn't know I was on a nyx quest lol
tepid ridge
She helps with a lot of the later quests because that’s kinda been her role in Zag’s life. She will have her own stuff to deal with a lot later on
So you’re not strictly on a Nyx quest haha
mystic vale
I'm on multiple Nyx quests. :p
raw violet
it's probably more of an orpheus quest if i had to define it
that Nyx just happens to help you with
mystic vale
Although one involves ||Dusa, everyone's favourite floating head since Morte.||
eager scarab
Awh dangit
I'm on one DD, and after clearing a chamber the options I'm given are double boons or patroclus
unkempt pagoda
bye bye boons
lapis matrix
Patroclus I think
eager scarab
Oh dang
Two duo boon offers from artemis
Never seen that before
Hunting blades and heart rend, gonna go with blades
turbid needle
Okay, but imagine those two and Deadly Reversal and being asked to pick one.
fallen mirage
you would pick Deadly Reversal every time
turbid needle
Sure.
eager scarab
What does deadly reversal do again?
fallen mirage
Gives you +20% crit chance after deflecting
unkempt pagoda
global crit chance after deflection
unkempt pagoda
anyways, between hb and reversal, hunting blades
unkempt pagoda
between reversal and heart rend is a harder choice
eager scarab
I think reversal is the better choice
turbid needle
Heartbreak Strike Nemesis?
With Divine Dash.
50% crit rate or 4.5x damage crits?
unkempt pagoda
i think it'd depend on whether it'd be easier to get off a deflect or a weak
turbid needle
You mean like the specific set-up I listed?
turbid needle
I feel like 30% from Nemesis is already more than enough.
unkempt pagoda
but i think heart rend in that situation
turbid needle
You'd take both if you saw them, but Heart Rend>Deadly Reversal.
unkempt pagoda
but reversal has a special place in my heart, from when it was utterly broken 😔
rip old deadly reversal
turbid needle
Guaranteed crits for 3 seconds?
turbid needle
I missed out on Infinity Chamber/Heavy Slug.
Remember when the bow used to be the Hydra skip weapon?
I don't, I only started playing last April.
But just hearing that happened blows my mind.
unkempt pagoda
remember when spear spin was the most broken build in the game 🤧
turbid needle
I somehow got an Elysian Erebus Gate with Super Elite Louts and Speedy BP Chariots.
Spear Spin is still terrifying.
unkempt pagoda
old artemis dash (guaranteed crit after dashing) worked with the dash-spin tech
turbid needle
WHAT.
unkempt pagoda
adding on a good +% damage attack boon, you did absolutely disgusting damage
eager scarab
Double duo yeee, got low tolerance
unkempt pagoda
the cherry on top was athena attack so you couldn't be hit
raw violet
low tolerance and hunting blades?
turbid needle
Yes, I've used Guan Yu, tell me something I don't know. 
raw violet
op build if i ever heard of one
eager scarab
Guess the weapon
raw violet
zeus shield
turbid needle
It took the Hammer being busted wide open (100 damage is too much, downvote that feedback as much as you want) for people to realize it was good.
eager scarab
This is one of the most stacked builds I've done
turbid needle
If/when Spread Fire is reverted (you better revert it), I hope everyone sees it still works fine with Deadly Strike.
unkempt pagoda
I FOUND IT
this was when i earned my second skelly statue, long before the heat rework
eager scarab
60 heat Jesus
turbid needle
That was before the Heat rework, it's the equivalent of like 16.
unkempt pagoda
oh this was when the scaling went to 200
unkempt pagoda
rest in peace titan toppler and gray-eyed vigilance
turbid needle
I don't mind Divine Dash, but I want unique Call names back so much.
And for "Greater Call" to be called "Wrath".
narrow halo
So how olympian legacy interacts with gods pride ?
turbid needle
You have an additional 20% chance to spawn Epics, and when you meet the prereqs for Duos and Legendaries they have an additional 10% chance to spawn.
narrow halo
I know but are they stacking on each other or competing?
turbid needle
God's Pride does not interact with Duos or Legendaries.
narrow halo
So it’s saver to take only one of them right ?
turbid needle
I don't know what you're trying to accomplish.
narrow halo
I want legendary more than i want epic
turbid needle
There is only a single Legendary per Olympian per run.
narrow halo
Thats why i dont want to get epic where otherwise i would get legendary
turbid needle
Legendaries and Duos are not on the sliding scale of rarity.
They are unrelated to other boons.
magic dagger
@nimble dove did you slip on a ||banana peel||? Happens to me all the time.
nimble dove
Lmao no can that happen?
mystic vale
He stood up? :p
I literally cannot recall the last time I played a game with a boss that had only one form/life bar.
nimble dove
||The second phase||
lmao
I should have seen it coming tbh
but i thought i was done for the very first time
and then it all went down hill 😂
I love this game lmao 
narrow halo
I can have 2 modified special with different colors right ? Like the double special and super nova at the same time?
mystic vale
I do wish the game warned you when a hammer form or boon you were offered won't work with an Aspect you're using.
turbid needle
They've done a good job of removing any that really don't work together.
What's one that didn't work for you?
narrow halo
Not the aspects like 2 hammer buff on the same move ?
dry ember
Yes
Of you are offered a hammer upgrade, it will work as intended with other hammer upgrades
narrow halo
Thanks man
dry ember
I mean like if you get Spreadfire
narrow halo
It works i picked it just now
dry ember
You won't be offered Delta Chamber
raw violet
i'm asking the guy who said he wished the game warned him
mystic vale
I was pretty sure the other day I was warned against taking something because it wouldn't work with Chaos aspect.
turbid needle
Hold up.
You don't have actual experience with something not working correctly together?
narrow halo
Double hit sp with super nova and epic lvl 7 divine flourish 😋
raw violet
lol
dry ember
Yeet
mystic vale
Well, no, because someone told me it wouldn't work, so I didn't do it. :p
BTW if someone tells me that drinking something will kill me, I will not try it just to see if I can prove them wrong. :p
There are limits to my spitefulness.
turbid needle
Yes, because testing an option in a video game is much like testing poison in real life.
raw violet
also giving feedback about something you're not sure of seems questionable at best to me
mystic vale
Yes, doing something stupid is much like doing something stupid.
Okay: Don't listen to what anything says confirmed.
Wait, someone said that.
Do I listen to it or not?
:hmm:
raw violet
are you talking about chaos aspect and dread flight?
turbid needle
I don't know why you're taking this to 11, man.
mystic vale
I don't recall which Hammer upgrade it was.
turbid needle
We can bring it back down to a 3.
mystic vale
But I am talking about Chaos aspect, yes.
raw violet
dread flight works
mystic vale
Or maybe it was a boon. Shrugs. It was like four days ago.
I did learn Lightning Flourish doesn't work with Chaos aspect the way I'd like it to. :p
But that would also have been broken.
So yeah.
turbid needle
You can still get 5 lightning bolts per Throw, it's just harder.
raw violet
it would be helpful to know what you're referring to when you say something doesn't work
so i can test it out myself
turbid needle
They can't make contact within three-tenths of a second of each other.
mystic vale
Yes, well, if I had specifics, I'd be trying to replicate it myself.
turbid needle
But if you get lucky rebounds in such a way that they hit sequentially instead of simultaneously you get multiple lightning bolts.
mystic vale
However, my memory about things mentioned four days ago isn't as good as it was thirty years ago.
I didn't remember it happened at all until someone mentioned something in a similar vein. :p
dry ember
EM3 doesn't change Hades fight right?
raw violet
not that i can tell
inland pebble
yet
raw violet
i think that's being hinted at for next patch
mystic vale
Do things like Calisthenics Programme or Forced Labour up him?
inland pebble
Yes
raw violet
calisthenics makes theseus and minotaur some beefy boys on em3
mystic vale
I had a level of CP on my 5 heat and didn't notice much difference, but it was a shield run so his eventual defeat was just a matter of time anyhow.
inland pebble
Ugh, I hate that Cal Program so much, avoid it like the plague.
mystic vale
So far I like the Damage Control and Benefits Package a lot for most weapons.
inland pebble
Especially with those Tanky perk on armour foes
raw violet
i always thought people made too big a deal about CP
mystic vale
Only a few BP combos are really troublesome.
raw violet
until i started doing high heat runs where rng can be real fickle on the dps
and it's not great
inland pebble
Oh yes, let's talk about BP!
mystic vale
And DC is only a blip on the radar for the ranged and/or quick weapons.
inland pebble
You know what is the worst combo of BPs and type of enemies?!
mystic vale
I think the worst BP combo I can think of right now is if double damage shows up with those goons that drop insta-explode bombs around you.
raw violet
teleporting, haste chariots?
mystic vale
But there's probably something worse with Flamewheels.
I've seen them with the slowing auras.
inland pebble
Chariots, double dmg, super fast.
mystic vale
That was Fun.
mystic vale
(Note: "Fun" with the capital F is the Dwarf Fortress style of Fun.)
inland pebble
Or super fast, blinking flame wheels?!
Nope, it's those damned Splitters of Asphodel!
They come like 10 of them in a room, floating above a lava pool.
mystic vale
Honestly I consistently lose more life in Asphodel than Elysium.
But then I haven't EM3'd.
inland pebble
Now combine them with Seeker, so each will produce like 15 bullets flying after you
mystic vale
Oh, I did run into the Butterfly Ball having the super tank mod once.
inland pebble
The absolute worst combo I have ever faced, and I already know how to deal with those chariots!
mystic vale
That took a bit.
cedar hemlock
Elysium will learn not to suck one day
mystic vale
Luckily, it was a Fist run and I had Breaching Cross.
Otherwise I might still be there to this day.
cedar hemlock
I think the only issue I have is that the spear traps blend into the background a lot when they're not on the bridge maps
But I haven't gotten into 10+ Heat yet
dry ember
The BP that boosts health can go away
mystic vale
I do lose sight of spear traps to the SE corner sometimes.
dry ember
Please
inland pebble
Yeah, Bruiser is the name of the tanky perk, right? Super problemmatic on small enemies.
cunning urchin
My worst chamber was a group of Longspears who pulled me in and never let me go. Impossible to attack at anything like a reasonable rate, impossible to dash out.
inland pebble
Big emphasis on enemiES
raw violet
32 heat chariots are the devil and whoever designed those rooms with 10 of them with 30 flamewheels is a damn troll
mystic vale
So you got rick-rolled, Mewmew?
inland pebble
32 heat chariots are the devil and whoever designed those rooms with 10 of them with 30 flamewheels is a damn troll
@raw violet they are not designed, that is the point
raw violet
designed by the devil, you can't convince me otherwise
inland pebble
Basically they threw a bunch of randomised autogenerated combo and let the players report back on what combo sux/is broken the most
mystic vale
Pfft. You folks clearly never fought a Stone Skin MSLEB with a Barbarian before. :p
inland pebble
A Stone Skin sthsth?! Yeah, I can deal with that.
Talk big game to me once you deal with a room full of 10 Splitters who fire 15 bullets at once chasing after you
mystic vale
Diablo II reference. Multishot Lightning Enchanted Boss used to be instantly fatal at melee range except for people with immense piles of end game gear. :p
And Stone Skin was 80% Physical Resistance - possibly creating an immunity if the base monster had 20+ resistance.
fiery light
Out of curiosity
is there any plans to work on AresAphro duo boon?
Feels really weak despite the super cool concept
raw violet
i dunno, i have less problems with splitters than i do with flame wheels
fiery light
Flame wheels without an athena boon as sword are pretty much hell
inland pebble
Flame wheels? Depend. If they have the speed boost, you're basically confirmed dead
Even worst if they have gravity pulls
cunning urchin
There's been a lot of feedback about Ares, so they will surely look into his boons.
raw violet
those are the only flamewheels i'm talking about
fiery light
Gotta do Special-dash cancels
dry ember
Flamewheel should detonate faster
fiery light
My only issue is the gulf of power between some of Ares' duos
fiery light
Merciful vs Curse of Long is kinda hilarious
dry ember
when I'm purposefully looking for it
mystic vale
Flamewheels should get over-excited and explode as soon as they see me half a screen away.
fiery light
^ pls
mystic vale
By the power of :redshade:.
mystic vale
One of these days, I'mma go Jury Duty, get Poseidon early on for Ocean's Bounty, and meme up so much gold that GT gives me 500+.
raw violet
and probably some degree of hard labor
opal glade
I used to hate Asphodel until I met the|| Satyrs||.
inland pebble
They buffed the Satyrs' HP this patch, right?
mystic vale
Those goons pretty much ensure I'll never replace Divine Dash with another Dash.
dry ember
at least you can blow up the Satyrs, and Spearpoint negates that somewhat
inland pebble
They are a lot tankier than their HP bars suggest
dry ember
Longspear, on the other hand
mighty ermine
it's funny how curse of longing used to actually be incredibly good, got cut from the game briefly for balance concerns, and was brought back in the sad state it is now
mystic vale
And I still haven't gotten the damn thing to spawn despite spending four runs trying. :p
raw violet
i always pick it up when i'm offered
dry ember
I guess you long for the old curse huh
raw violet
but i don't really notice it
opal glade
Me cruising through the first 3 regions with full DD: haha attack go brr
4th area: Anata wa mou shindeiru
Me: nani
cunning urchin
Asphodel on 32 heat is literally just bombs everywhere. 
dry ember
Divine Dash goes BRRRR
mystic vale
I don't like Asphodel at all. Much less with heat. :p
mystic vale
Best dash.
dry ember
But yeah, I tried 32 heat today and got murdered at 1st room Elysium
cunning urchin
And then you're like yeah sure Master Chaos, I'll take that one boon you offer me that is bombs everywhere . . .
opal glade
but im was farming for Ares boons cause i always avoided slicing shot
cunning urchin
And then it's 2x infinity bombs.
opal glade
i only just got black metal
mystic vale
You seem to have some PTSD here, Mewmew.
opal glade
god the bombs
raw violet
i.e. elysium
cunning urchin
Getting to Elysium on 32 heat is pretty good.
raw violet
getting to elysium is easy if you chaos aspect crutch
mystic vale
And then Patroclus puts on the Barry White...
inland pebble
True
mighty ermine
chaos feels pretty free to me in tartarus or sometimes early aspho even at 32 heat
raw violet
the most dangerous thing in asphodel for chaos is the lava
mighty ermine
oh i meant like, chaos boons btw
raw violet
oh, yeah, i was taking them in tartarus
but most of my runs had really bad rng
so i never got anything useful
dry ember
is drunken strike common worth taking on fist?
mighty ermine
my first 32 clear was with shield and was weirdly the most miserable one of the weapons haha yeah. horrible rng
dry ember
or do you hold out for better things
cunning urchin
Drunken Strike is bad on Malphon.
mystic vale
Divine Strike is ideal.
mighty ermine
the others went totally fine though, comparatively
dry ember
I thought stacking Hangover is a good thing?
mystic vale
But Drunken is a decent second place - at least in my lowish heat runs.
raw violet
the shield just doesn't have a good dps single boon build
cunning urchin
I wouldn't call it ideal necessarily. But Divine Strike is very consistent.
mystic vale
Defer to Mewmew on all matters Malphon, though.
raw violet
i got a lucky dio epic special off the bat and rode it the whole way
dry ember
I find myself lacking in damage using Malphon
inland pebble
Shield? Depend on what aspect. Zeus Aspect can have some really damaging combo
mighty ermine
@dry ember zeus attack on malphon my dude
dry ember
yeah but I got offered Drunken Strike
cunning urchin
Sec, let me copy-paste my numbers from yesterday.
raw violet
i second divine strike as the safest malphon option
dry ember
Your yesterday is my noon
raw violet
and not that bad for dps ending on your other boons
raw violet
i love doom on fist
cunning urchin
About 4.75 attacks per second with Zag Aspect Malphon and 2 dashes.
That's 5.225 attacks per Doom tic. So you're reapplying Doom every 6th hit. 210 msec per hit. That means you're getting a Doom proc every 1.26 seconds.
On a single target when attacking without pause.
So . . . with two dashes, Zag Aspect Malphon base damage is 61.759 per second or 61~62 damage per second.Assuming rare boons and lowest multipliers:
Curse of Agony: 59.5/sec
Lightning Strike: 59.4/sec
Heartbreak Strike: 58.7/sec
Divine Strike: 46.9/sec
Frost Strike: 46.9/sec
Tempest Strike: 35.2/sec
Deadly Strike (incl. crits): 30.5/sec
Rare Drunken Strike adds 30 damage in the first second and 50/sec after that.
raw violet
not even joking
cunning urchin
Doom, Lightning, Heartbreak or Divine Strike are definitely the best.
Divine Strike has lower DPS than the other three but is very safe.
cunning urchin
I wouldn't take Heroic Drunken Strike.
mighty ermine
tempest strike is a weird one though because that might be accurate in a vacuum, but the knockback is going to cause positioning and consistency problems
raw violet
i don't think dio is good on fist at all
inland pebble
I never take Poseidon with melee weapons
dry ember
Ok, question, then why take dio on Serrated Edge Spear?
mighty ermine
sorry sea uncle but your gimmick is kinda not good a lot of the time
dry ember
Side note, Poseidon creeps me out.
inland pebble
Like, if you somehow knock some floating foes out of the lavas, you're killing yourself by just wasting time
dry ember
In fact, what can actually use dio?
opal glade
Poseidon does occasionally sound like he drives a white van
raw violet
i tried a poseidon spear special build
it's not terrible
i guess it's technically not melee
dry ember
cause things like bow doesn't really benefit from it
inland pebble
Because Spear is essentially a range weapon
raw violet
since you're throwing it
cunning urchin
I think Hangover is somewhat overrated on a lot of things because people don't crunch the numbers. For me, Hangover is something I would take in a DOT build when I already have Doom on something else, so that I can apply both.
opal glade
Ah yeah poseidon on melee is more trouble than its worth
mighty ermine
yeah that's not successive hit reliant other than just recalling the spear back to you if not guan yu
opal glade
Whats DOT build?
cunning urchin
Damage over time.
opal glade
Oh aight
mighty ermine
yeah i personally don't bother with hangover unless it's the call or i plan on the duo with aphro
raw violet
dio also great for cast builds
cunning urchin
Yeah, for cast build definitely.
dry ember
Dio and Aphro for the privilege status?
raw violet
and low tolerance
dry ember
ok
cunning urchin
Low Tolerance still has issues on trash mobs because the initial damage before you've applied 5 stacks is still very low.
raw violet
yeah
low tolerance is not that useful for mob clearing, but dio by itself is pretty good at it
i found it more helpful when my boss dps was lacking
mighty ermine
the DoT hardly feels like it makes up for the lack of damage scaling most of the time
typically if i have to run dio on attack or special, i'm wishing it was something else instead
inland pebble
Dio dash dmg is so low