The Wiki....
#h1-builds-and-combat
hollow minnow
small gorge
the wikiiiii
hollow minnow
thank youuuuuu
dense locust
Haha
small gorge
like i said dude
dense locust
the wiki is number 1
hollow minnow
😅
small gorge
straigh up
hollow minnow
😂
dense locust
I never knew it was so specific
I just bought everything when I could and eventually got it
But I have great taste so I got it pretty early
dense locust
I like the item that gives 150% to drama
small gorge
got that first
dense locust
Always lol
small gorge
flower everywhere
dense locust
Only item that increases an arbitrary stat
dense locust
Ugh I hate getting faced with hermes or hammer
Only one hammer is really that useful
so i guess hermes...
small gorge
hermes is good
if you build rocket build with spear or rail
or cast build
or when you dont have any defend boon
dense locust
Yeah im looking for some extra dashes or dodge
or movespeed
yeah only dread flight for the shield is useful for me so hermes it is
small gorge
still get hype from last run
that posei zeus build litteraly turn this game from Hades - Battle out of hell to Hades - Massacre of Zagreus
dense locust
lol my passion dash ended up getting to level 4 doing 54 damage per dash and I didn't upgrade it once. One of those runs where every source of damage does its part
I think my favorite unexpected build was ares attack on rail with merciful end and athena dash
you dash attack through enemies and they take so much doom damage
oblique tusk
i wish i could assign different keybindings to different weapons tbh
dense locust
What do you mean by that?
Like you could just press the button in the skelly room to change weapons faster?
Or that under any given weapon, you could have different keybindings
opal bay
Think the second
hybrid galleon
Dio:Muda muda muda
dense locust
I assume eurydice cant upgrade anything past heroic
Can she up the rarity of hermes? Also, can ambrosia update affect a heroic boon even if there are other options?
small gorge
demeter upgrade?
dense locust
Eurydice who can appear in the 2nd biome that can upgrade the rarity of 2 random boons, level up 4 random boons, or increase the rarity of the next 3 boons
oblique tusk
https://imgur.com/a/v7LCMEW slowly getting better!
dense locust
@oblique tusk I love it, I've never seen someone so heavily invested in spear and bow, and nice times on those wins
Here's my current hell mode progress:
You know I might not mind hazard bomb if it didn't completely nullify Eris. Or am I mistaken
I just got hit by it and it did 4 damage... wtf are the numbers behind this hammer exactly...
oh its only 1% damage to self
but it is hard to use it within the time frame of being hit by it
Oof charon offers me hermes and artemis boons and every choice is common...
waxen imp
@dense locust you can iframe your hazard bomb and it gives you the dmg boost
dense locust
Im doing hazard bomb this run mostly because its one of the last of the prophecies for hell
Okay iframing it takes little bit of practice
Its not terribly hard unless there are a lot of things going on
waxen imp
at that point, i'd only use hazard bomb for the dmg boost within 8 seconds
no point spamming it
dense locust
No I know i just checked it because im using it and you're right
waxen imp
i don't think it has ever been 3
waxen imp
you're probably thinking of the sword's crit chance
dense locust
Maybe, but I feel like this also got increased
Like when second wind was increased from something like 7 or 8 to 15 seconds i was equally surprised
waxen imp
yeah, the sword crit is 3 seconds
dense locust
maybe it was even less than that prewinter
small gorge
hay @dense locust about rail crit build how do you build that
dense locust
You pray for rocket bomb
Zeus attack carries you for a very long time
eris is the best aspect
if you don't get rocket bomb, you adapt
waxen imp
eh, imo the best for eris rail is dio
because you only need 1 attack boon for it to work
dense locust
There are a ton of viable builds for eris
because its just a straight 60% to all damage
ive done a eris cast build
small gorge
back to back mat
dense locust
ive had poseidon call as main source of damage
dense locust
its a hammer
small gorge
no i knew
its just
you ahve to stay in the bomb radius to get buff?
so why rocket bomb?
waxen imp
this
lament nacelle
Oh my gosh. Never considered doing that before.
lament nacelle
Yeah. Wow.
small gorge
i just done a oposite
lament nacelle
Amir please Nerf.
small gorge
hestia
dense locust
if you can, get privleged status up, and if you're lucky, get aphrodite on dash or something in order to get heart rend
waxen imp
honestly if you get rocket and triple special, anything can work
small gorge
hestia and crit atk
dense locust
its true
small gorge
2k buff shot
dense locust
or rocket bomb
and you can dash around and hit 5 rockets
sorry
cluster bomb
cluster bomb and rocket bomb gives you a rocketlauncher shotgun
I like zeus attack with it because it quickly takes care of the smaller moba
mobs
small gorge
ever get a run with 3 hammer?
waxen imp
i have, but it's rare
dense locust
if you got 3 it was a bug
small gorge
with crit atk
waxen imp
dunno
dense locust
at least according to the wiki
waxen imp
spread fire and explosive fire is some major aoe right there
dense locust
and my own experience
waxen imp
i've had those 2 hammers with dio attack
dense locust
Yeah its another really fun build
waxen imp
everything died after 1 dash attack
small gorge
so this is what i got from last run
waxen imp
i like everything except the sword
lament nacelle
Zag aspect is actually pretty good on sword.
dense locust
my favorite rail build solely based on how unique it was ares attack, athena dash, and their duo merciful end
lament nacelle
It increases speed and dash distance.
lament nacelle
Sword used to be everybody's main until special was nerfed.
dense locust
I like going for the crit sword build but it really doesn't work at high heat
anything that puts you right in the fray without some sort of backup plan just gets you killed
waxen imp
cough shield cough cough
small gorge
best weap shield
lament nacelle
Charge is kinda funny on shield.
waxen imp
imagine a weapon that has an iframe with basically no cd
waxen imp
that's shield
small gorge
if i try hard
doom atk and deflect special
nemesis for bonus damage
or Brift build on poseidon
dense locust
To be honest, having hazard bomb hurt you is just unnecessary. It doesn't even work with most other hammers as is and would still be worse than rocket bomb even if it didn't hurt you
small gorge
or dislodge crit cast
on poseidon
@lament nacelle basically that is a easy build
or you can do crit special build on nemesis
dense locust
Even if hazard bomb didn't hurt you, i'd think it needs a buff
lament nacelle
You mean crit attack on Nemesis?
lament nacelle
Well we all want that.
lament nacelle
But honestly I only get Athena for special.
small gorge
doom atk and deflect special
that is what i always do
when i play sword
nemsis for bonus damage after all
lament nacelle
That sounds like a pretty tough nut.
dense locust
If you get some early boons it can guide a nemesis build
If you get the double attack special then go for aphrodite special imo
lament nacelle
Does the bonus damage apply to Doom?
small gorge
you know the doom deflect duo?
dense locust
But if you get world splitter, go for artemis or aphrodite attack
small gorge
when you apply doom your deflect active it?
dense locust
athena dash and and/or call if you can
small gorge
let say my perfect run with sword have
dense locust
2-3 levels on athena call, nemesis sword with world splitter and aphrodite/artemis build with heart rend
small gorge
doom atk deflect dash and special, athena aid, all doom buff
duo athena
its more perfect when you have cast aphro
dense locust
interesting ive never tried something like that
small gorge
and its give you more duo boon
dense locust
I usually let chaos guide my build
dense locust
But I also start with egg
lament nacelle
Is she worth taking the egg?
small gorge
yes it is
lament nacelle
Why'd I say she?
dense locust
If you get a built out nemesis sword build with world splitter and the relevant artemis/aphrodite boons, you're gonna be doing 2k crits
dense locust
It is, but with athena call, or well placed third attacks
Or go for dash attack damage if you get the double dash attack
small gorge
my build need flurry splash and supernova
dense locust
If you get double edge with a artemis/aphrodite build and can get heart rend and aphrodite attack
the god gauge charges in like 5 seconds
small gorge
so you can apply mutiple stack of doom fast and deflect everything arounmd
let me make a pic of my build
dense locust
I once had flurry slash, piercing wave, and the hermes epic +30% to attack speed
and it almost made piercing wave good
lament nacelle
Do you ever use Than's butterfly or Herme's feather?
dense locust
I used to start with Herme's lambent plume a lot until higher heats
One thing to keep in mind is if you're trying to win a run and you realize that the boons and hammers that the game is giving you would be better suited to a different weapon or build, just give up and adapt because the seed doesn't change
lament nacelle
Really?
dense locust
So if I get zeus epic attack to begin with but I have sword, I might just give up immediately and switch to rail because I know that that boon will carry me
and it will guaranteed be there if you give up and switch weapons
unless you carry a gods keepsake
that forces it to change
Yeah giving up keeps the current seed
If you get a hammer room one
lament nacelle
I'm amazed I didn't figue that out by now.
dense locust
you can experiment with all of the weapons you have to see which ones the hammer gives the given weapon
I know, I feel like it's an immensely powerful way of progressing but it's not laid out anywhere
dense locust
I actually gave up a run last night in elysium because I could tell the seed was heavily favoring an ares cast build but I screwed up along the way. With the new knowledge of the seed, I ended up destroying
marble ridge
vengeful M O O D
dense locust
Lol the vengeful mood build is funny but not all that great and pretty hard to get
lament nacelle
Dang that's cool.
dense locust
IDK, when you get higher heats, flurry slash feels way too dangerous
small gorge
i simply need to apply more and more doom after all
dense locust
Rail with merciful end and doom on attack and athena dash is really really fun though
small gorge
so if i can get hermes buff to that
dense locust
so i can see this being fun
small gorge
omg feel good
lament nacelle
Good night.
dense locust
night night
dense locust
Ive heard there is a dodge cap
small gorge
100 % dodge
dense locust
but there is a cap
you'll still get hit with "100%" dodge
A lot of my builds focus on defense and ive had what would be 100% dodge a number of times if it was additive with no cap
It's really strong but it's not invincible
small gorge
i try to get the instant kill boss
and i did its once with legendary demeter and aphro aid
last phase 1 call
but its seem that we couldnt skip phase so i quit that build
dense locust
What do you mean by aphro aid
I know that there is a very specific build that lets you insta kill the hydra
with megs companion along with some other stuff
dense locust
Oh, just so were on the same page, the game refers to it as a god's call
That's why I was confused
dense locust
I've heard you can with the right build
But it involves meg companion I think, along with some other very specific boons
rancid shore
any boons work; you just need to deal an amount of damage and line the summon up right
small gorge
nope
rancid shore
- PS
small gorge
try one
can get rid of hades phase
its turn my 2k5 damage call to nothing
you can get rid of his skill not his phase
dense locust
small gorge
oh wow
dense locust
oh yeah sorry I thought you were referring to hydra because its the only boss Ive heard you can insta kill
small gorge
i think they fixed it
its now v0.2513
after all bosses in hades cant be skip phase
dense locust
good, I didn't really like that
rancid shore
they haven't fixed it
small gorge
and i think people wont agree with the skip phase thing
rancid shore
it's in the current wr
rancid shore
dense locust
But to be fair, speedrunners always find a way
At some point, someone will figure out that if you special into a wall while your casts are at a certain point that you'll teleport to hades and then insta kill him some how
dense locust
yep
I hate how well im doing with hazard bomb right now because i have zero confidence in beating the final boss
I really hope they redo something with revenge boons
small gorge
lul go to feedback mate
dense locust
maybe
That one duo boon that makes revenge boons viable is funny, but its a complete meme
Otherwise you take a boon expecting to take damage, and the trade off is so terrible at higher heats
okay okay, got sea storm with poseidon attack on rail
again, this would be far better with any other hammer than hazard bomb, but not bad
astral magnet
revenge boons are good with cursed sword too
dense locust
wtf does swift flouish do for hazard bomb
let you kill yourself faster?
That was the first run where I was actually mad I won...
This run would have been amazing if hazard bomb didn't suck or was any other hammer
torn bison
dusky drum
Im mad
I had a run where i was un=sing nemesis and had like all artemis crit stuff, aphro special, athena dash, artemis athena duo, atremis aphro duo, sword waves, and my thrusts have more crit
then i gave the satyr sack to cerberus and the game crashed
i also had hermes 20% attack speed
im really mad
i was doing constant 300-500 crits
also whats the differences between the laurels on new rooms??
young oriole
any way to "attack" spamming without always clicking? i have wrist problems
turbid needle
There are Daedelus Hammers for all the weapons except shield (and Rail, which has automatic fire natively) that turn their Attack into rapid-fire.
dusky drum
or you can go bow where you dont have to spam
chrome geyser
For shield; there is the double-attack hammer which is similar.
And shield attacks pretty rapidly to begin with.
Rail has a rapid attack hammer. It's the flurry shot; +6 ammo; much faster unload; higher accuracy.
@dusky drum what do you mean new rooms?
Gold laurels are hammers, hearts, gold, boons and trial of gods rooms. When you reroll gold rooms they always roll to another gold type. (Minibosses always roll to god boons though)
Blue laurels are darkness, gems, nectars and keys. They also only roll into each other.
dusky drum
i meant when you look at the room rewards for the next room, and thanks
chrome geyser
The game tries to give you a certain percentage of blue rooms. That's how it works.
chrome geyser
Shops, special characters don't count as anything as far as in game balancing is concerned; and hell gates and chaos gates are considered as gold laurel.
I never reroll blue ones. I reroll usually rooms with gold; because that is the lowest value gold laurel.
young oriole
is there a way to choose the weapon? im always start with a sword
chrome geyser
Or miniboss boss rooms to look for a specific god.
primal cape
in the room with skelley you can change weapons
chrome geyser
Yes; you need to unlock them first with keys
primal cape
though you may have to unlock other weapons by using skeleton keys
chrome geyser
Then when you interact with them to equip them.
primal cape
what would you say is the best aspect for each weapon?
earnest ravine
Uhhh, depends? Poseidon is the strongest sword for going fast consistently due to Casts in general being strong, but Nemesis gives a decent run for its money if you can avoid getting killed. People LOVE the Chaos Shield but I'm a diehard Zeus shield apologist so I can't give an unbiased answer on that. Spear is Guan Yu, no question, but Achilies is pretty strong if you get used to it and Hades' is like... There?
Hera Bow is the strongest overall, but the base bow is pretty dang good and Chiron, while a little finicky, is also my personal favourite but I admit it has flaws. Rail Gun is just. Eris. Hestia is good for sniper builds if you are good at it, but for overall going fast strength I put money on it being Eris. Base one is good if you just wanna shoot a lot but not As Up There.
turbid needle
Nemesis is this game's Very Hard Mode.
earnest ravine
it's so fun going fast with it but you just gotta. Not Get Hit, which I've heard is challenging
turbid needle
The secret is to literally never use your standing attack.
earnest ravine
the crit noiise is SO GOOD with privelaged status on with a dash attack
turbid needle
And also spawning into Double Edge.
final warren
Me with Nemesis: Mashing A+X together forever. Occasionally exploding numbskulls to save time.
primal cape
I'm not sure why you'd call Hera the strongest for the bows
Chiron makes special attack viable without risking getting hit by shotgunning, which makes it okay for you to get a good attack/special you aren't dead in the water
If you take zagerus you can survive on just twinshot/exploading shot even if you don't get a boon for attack
Though if you take hera you don't have an easy backup if you don't get a good cast, you either have to shotgun special to do good damage, and if you get attack you typically will need a boon + chaos or a boon + daedelus to have solid dps
earnest ravine
My main motivation for loving Zeus Shield is secretly just loving the auditory noise of hearing it rapidly hit like 6 enemies over and over every second while applying a status
small gorge
https://imgur.com/a/IJTYd89
this build is OP quick clear quick boss good defend
this is an example for the op of the shield
especialy chaos
dont need too much boon
earnest ravine
Even with base cast, the bloodstone boost oneshots pretty much everythnig through tartarus, NEARLY does so in Asphodel, and applies the embedder bloodstones damage up all in one go if you fully load it.
primal cape
I feel like if you get any good damage on shield you can make it work on any boss
final warren
I have had fun with the Spear (Achilles) and Bow (Chiron or Hera) most, followed by Nemesis sword. The Rail is fun but I honestly have never had as much fun with it as spear, bow, or sword. I do NOT like the shield. Im just not a shield guy I guess.
primal cape
how much did heroic aphro do?
turbid needle
Rarity doesn't affect the damage from Aphrodite's Greater Call, just the Charm duration.
It always deals 2500 base damage, which can be increased with universal multipliers like Privileged Status.
small gorge
yeah
think so
but its good
its really good when you can build the meter fast
i can do max meter like 3 time when i fight hades
turbid needle
Before most of the boss skips were fixed, I used it to KO the final boss from almost full.
earnest ravine
Also, the Chiron bow's special makes actually applying status to any group of enemies a risky endeavour and is super difficult to manage in a timely manner on higher overtime heat levels. The wide spread special is fantastic for applying a wave of curses to proc Privelaged Status, while the Chiron bow has weird interactions with any boons that have 'proc on hit' effects.
primal cape
Chiron bow fully stacks poision but I've heard it doesn't proc each arrow with zeus
turbid needle
I think the homing proc is short enough that it shouldn't interfere with your ability to widely apply Status.
It does not.
Thunder Flourish doesn't play nicely with anything except the Aspect of Zeus.
primal cape
also I'm not sure how it works with demeter and is it called "artic blast"
turbid needle
It doesn't work quite as well as Dionysus, but I get a blast at least every other Volley.
earnest ravine
It lacks a universal application on them, and it makes fiddling with it a nightmare sometimes when you don't know how it'll work with a particular combo.
primal cape
Also Hermes speed up on Chiron bow is really strong, it even a 10% increase has allowed me to get 4 volleys off with the lock on
turbid needle
I've only ever seen two, holy crap.
primal cape
You can get 3 off without speed upgrade
earnest ravine
Compared to the crowd control potential of the standard special, it has a lot of weaknesses. Not to say it doesn't have its strengths, but it isn't as one-size-fits-all as the hera bow, and not AS powerful out of the gate with low boons or no hammers.
primal cape
Yeah my fix is taking than keepsake
primal cape
I take it on the start of all my runs because your lack of boons early on and the extra damage balances it out
earnest ravine
With bosses it instantly applies the bloodstone damage down from the start and does a huge chunk of damage on the initial shot.
And then keeps it consistent as long as they're lodged.
small gorge
when its come to hera i used to think that i only need to build damage on my cast
but no
primal cape
I think hera would work best with poseideon especially if you get knockback bonuses, but it'd faulter on bosses
or a high damage dio
or ares cast with artemis duo so it sticks to targets
though all casts would become more effective if you get artemis legendary/chaos ammo up/chaos cast dmg increase
small gorge
i need more than that
earnest ravine
Hera works best with Dionysus cast, actually!
Because Festive Fog's damage is ridiculous and it skips the lobbing animation.
small gorge
kind of
primal cape
I could see that
you don't need that much setup for festive fog to do high damage and it has plenty of strong synergies
small gorge
but one things that really not reasonable
earnest ravine
But even without that, it's great with any of the ones that can actually stick, for reasons I mentioned earlier. its burst damage is like... I can not emphasize it enough.
small gorge
Hera born to deal cast faster but all the need fast cast really dont need dislodge at all
but what hera got is the dislodge time
if they made its more like return time
earnest ravine
It's so you can spam the casts faster and get your burst more frequently.
small gorge
its really great
earnest ravine
Boosting its damage on bosses, essentially, since it doesnt' come up anywhere else.
small gorge
i think im gonna feed back this
earnest ravine
Also who wants to see an image that preceded tragedy
My controller disconnected at that EXACT moment. and I ate enough damage to lose my DD by the time I registered what happened, so I had to start.. all over again.
i was on SUCH A GOOD PACE
i was on 28% butterfly stacks. like
come ON
turbid needle
There has been a lot of asking for auto-pause when controller disconnect is detected. Supergiant is normally really good about this sort of thing, but I don't remember seeing it come up in any patch notes in recent memory.
earnest ravine
I think I've upvoted every time the subject's come up that I've seen it, because. yeah
i made it to elysium in 12 minutes, and those deaths were literally both at hydra because i made a dumb call
turbid needle
...Okay, I can set up crit Cluster Rockets, but there's also Explosive Fire and I'm pathing Zeus, too.
thin tide
I've got an Audio bug that i somehow managed to make happen (I think it was to do with spamming several moves very fast)
I have a recording showing it off a bit better than the screenshot can with the F10 report. Should i post it in the hades tech support with the info i have about when it occurred etc or is there a better place to post it?
faint sonnet
primal cape
If your controller disconnects just hit escape on keyboard
earnest ravine
Well, yeah? But it's one thing to do that in a stationary situation, another when you're trying to dodge projectiles or other enemies and literally can't react in time. This isn't even the first time it's happened, just the saddest.
And if that can be avoided for other people, when it can happen by accident at any time? Having something in place would be a good thing.
finite violet
there are games that auto-pause when sensing the input method changing from controller to keyboard/mouse suddenly, so i think it's a good idea to implement when they can
naive tusk
2 seconds of being still on a 32 heat run mean A LOT
earnest ravine
;-;
naive tusk
You have my condolences, Silv 😦
earnest ravine
thank u
primal cape
How do you guys feel about Hermes keepsake?
earnest ravine
Kinda meh? Some people swear by it, but RNG damage reduction isn't my thing. it's fun to time yourself against, though.
naive tusk
I like the idea but I've been using the other gods' keepsakes that I haven't given Hermes' a chance after I ranked it to 3 stars
primal cape
Would it be worth it when taking the pact of punishment that time limits you?
You have to clear fast or lose and it rewards you for playing fast
You could act more reckless to clear fast and use that dodge chance
My typical keepsakes are butterfly tartarus, chaos for asphodel and elysium taking gates almost every opportunity and skelly for last area as a guaranteed clear
earnest ravine
Not really more than you normally would, since even with the Pact the time limit on it for some rooms is kinda silly.
primal cape
I wish the time limit was for the whole run
earnest ravine
i stick Butterfly the whole way through unless I'm playing sloppy or somehow ran down all of my DDs before Styx, in which case I take either the Acorn or the Tooth depending on heat level.
primal cape
Sometimes I keep butterfly for asphodel but only if I’m at 18/20 percent
Usually a good chaos boon is worth more longterm then I can get with butterfly
earnest ravine
Ah, it also probably depends on weapon, too.
primal cape
That’s how I run all weapons
earnest ravine
I stick with Zeus shield pretty much exclusively and go for boons that have static damage numbers (partially BECAUSE I run butterfly in the high 20s to 30s), so having a multiplicative damage boost on every one of those is really nice, compared to trying for percentage-based gods.
analog lodge
Yeah, shield is really bad with percentage boons but insane with numerical boons - unless you go sea storm, in which case poseidon special is OP
earnest ravine
Yup! And because Butterfly still works on those when other damage boosts don't, I try and keep it on whenever possible
analog lodge
I tend not to run butterfly, as I prefer boon consistancy
earnest ravine
See, you're smart. I just take what a run gives me and see what happens.
analog lodge
That said, taking butterfly can give you some really good runs if you get decent rng
and given that speedrunners always use the same save in order to get the same seed, it tends to be used in speedruns
earnest ravine
Nah, as far as I'm aware they actually tend to focus on a keepsake to guarantee a higher tier god boon per zone. Once they learn that seed's layout, it makes it super consistent.
Since once you change off of butterfly it loses all the stacks and you can't get it back, you keep it or don't.
It's too rigid for getting the boons later on or getting the coin purse if you're doing a standard run and can afford Charon shops.
hollow minnow
@dense locust Hey I completed Dusa's "quest"! Turns out all I had to do was talk to her! Thanks so much! Hopefully next time she shows up the prompt will be there for the ambrosia and I can finally get her summon! All I want to do it try it...
How do you deal with the Shield enemies in Elisum with the bow?????? They just block all attacks 😦
thin tide
Dash attacks, cast or different special
strange bay
hit em from behind
wait for them to attack and they'll stare in one direction for a while
during which time you can hit them on the non-shield side
lament coral
don't fully charged/powershot attacks also pierce em?
thin tide
that they do
thin tide
the bow does on powershot as an innate ability
hollow minnow
thanks guys!
I'll certainly try my best not to die...
I've never even done ONE escape with the bow. I used to be so good at it.💔
chrome geyser
BTW PSA announcement that you don't keep the butterfly trinket benefits if you take it off.
The only trinket whose benefit you get to keep is the coin purse
lament coral
yeah, same with the feather
chrome geyser
BTW im trying to do no-forced-boons runs; and I have to say even when i don't get the synergy i want; it's usually good enough damage.
And I will join in on the keepsake discussion.
I usually take coin purse to get that out of the way in tartarus.
lament coral
that's good on low heat where you're not concerned with your boons
chrome geyser
Then usually take distant memory to burst down hydra heads from a distance if im ranged.
lament coral
you'll want for specific gods for specific weapons at higher heat
chrome geyser
Or I go with cosmic egg if i see a light of ixion at the inter-biome space.
I'm at 17 heat right now.
clear haven
@chrome geyser I prefered no-forced myself, but when I got up to about heat 4 with the sword, I HAD to choose Athena.
earnest ravine
Eh, I've just been taking what I get and it's worked on every Heat so far.
chrome geyser
Still making choices; like last night I just let a doom run happen.
Which is not as high damage as zeus (chaos shield) but usually it is enough.
clear haven
I can go unforced with every weapon EXCEPT the sword.
chrome geyser
And making informed choices; you can make any permutation of gods work really.
Do you run +40% or +20% forced overtime?
clear haven
chrome geyser
Sword is one of my best weapons really.
clear haven
It doesn't make that much of a difference, the forced overtime, for me.
chrome geyser
40% skips tells of enemies; so I have been giving myself a brake from that.
There is a HUGE difference between 20 and 40
clear haven
Sure makes the hell challenges harder.
chrome geyser
The way i view it (I made several comments in #hades-feedback ) is that 40 is glitched.
Hitboxes go out of sync; expeccially on wave attacks.
clear haven
I'm pretty sure that Jury Summons actually works out in my favor considering more coin drops. I think.
chrome geyser
And some enemies skip attack tells; you can't react
clear haven
I don't do a lot of reacting anyhow.
earnest ravine
And also it does counterbalance some of the Convenience Fee's annoyance with the increased gold drops.
clear haven
Maybe that's my problem.
chrome geyser
sword is a lot of reacting since you are up close
clear haven
DEFINITELY my problem then.
chrome geyser
with ranged stuff; you can make space
clear haven
I basically run a kind of mental script for each enemy.
chrome geyser
I used to pretty much dash everywhere and try to get hits anywhere in; but reading enemies becomes much easier on 20%
Give it a try a bit.
Dodging becomes possible.
Jury summons is ok on some weapons
If you are getting zeus on rail for example. Or with any good aoe stuff.
But some rooms summon enemies one by one and WONT END
earnest ravine
At least on 40% they spawn in at a reasonably quick pace.
clear haven
The only place it gives me trouble is the bow, I swap it for the +health% in that case.
chrome geyser
And when you take a chaos curse; i legit spent 5 minutes of non-stop attacking to clear a room in elysium last night.
I'm so glad 2/4 cursed encounters got eaten by the boss and miniboss.
earnest ravine
That's the ideal combo! I'm jealous! That plus a Thanatos room is like, the best secnario
clear haven
I got around 70 enemies one time on a frikkin thanatos room.
earnest ravine
Hold on I have a screenshot for this
chrome geyser
Yeah bow is horrible with AoE
clear haven
Well, there ARE builds that make it work that way.
The Hammer upgrade that makes the bow bounce can swath.
And I always run the homing arrows aspect.
chrome geyser
well chiron bow is bad at aoe let me say
I yet to make one of those work.
I think bow needs a base damage buff tbh
clear haven
Which one that?
chrome geyser
Chain shot, chiron aspect
clear haven
Nah, not base damage. Maybe a thicker projectile. Per target the bow is my best DPS weapon.
chrome geyser
Obviously there are boons that make it work.
hollow minnow
any advice to face Final Boss with the bow??? I reallllly don't want to fail this one.
chrome geyser
But you can get aoe by spreading status/damage from your god boons using the volley in the other two aspects.
earnest ravine
Don't go for charge shots, Janeen.
chrome geyser
If you have Hera; go for a cast build.
clear haven
@hollow minnow hang back and shoot, just like you been doing.
chrome geyser
Nuke from distance, dodge, rinse and repeat
clear haven
My second Hades kill was with the bow.
earnest ravine
Focus on trying to dodge and only charge as long as you need to for it to hit to maximize mobility.
chrome geyser
First time getting to boss with the bow @hollow minnow ?
hollow minnow
yup!
turbid needle
Hard disagree. Power shots are key to getting a lot of bow builds off the ground.
hollow minnow
I'm nervous 😦
clear haven
At first I hated the bow, but now it's my most reliable escape weapon. That Hera aspect...
turbid needle
Dash attacks charge very quickly and there's a lot of ways to make that damage stack into the stratosphere.
earnest ravine
For the final boss in particular, I've found more success not trying to go for charged/power shots.
chrome geyser
Position and shoot. Just do your best.
earnest ravine
Because it likes to swing in out of nowhere sometimes and i hate it
Also Silver's right, you should listen to them a lot.
chrome geyser
It really gets OK. The game is really hard to begin with but once you play it a few times; reflexes will set into place and you will be much less anxious trust me.
If you have casts use them.
hollow minnow
Aw thanks 😄
clear haven
I usually load the casts into Hades first thing, for the damage bonus, but he might not have bought that.
chrome geyser
If you unlocked the mirror upgrade that is bonus damage against two status curses; that really helps with dps
hollow minnow
All right, I'm heading in! Thank you so much, guys!!! Fingers crossed!!!!
chrome geyser
Also use your cast
earnest ravine
Good luck!!
clear haven
The double status bonus is what my whole game is build around, for any weapon, at this point. I'm around about heat 12 for most weapons.
I think I'll be pretty much at my limit around heat 16.
20 for the shield 🙂
sacred folio
A little late to the previous unblockable / penetrating topic, but:
don't fully charged/powershot attacks also pierce em?
No. IIRC the bow's powershot can be blocked by shield.
Piercing and (un)blockable are two different things. It just happens that most of (or maybe all) hammer upgrades that grant piercing also make the attack unblockable at the same time.
chrome geyser
It's not the end of the world if you don't get it; it's an additive 50% but it is good damage.
chrome geyser
Which one goes through greatshield/theseus shield? Unblockable?
clear haven
So doesn't that effectively stack mult, by a mult factor between 1 and 2?
chrome geyser
I think @sacred folio fished out the damage formula; which appears to be additive no?
sacred folio
Yes. Unblockable = bypasses shield. Piercing = keep going, damage multiple targets
chrome geyser
Correct me if I am wrong.
clear haven
I'm sure it's additive for the base damage of the weapon.
clear haven
No other way to do it that's balanced. But I think in effect it multiplies, since it impacts secondary damage sources like jolt, rupture, ect...
turbid needle
So if you have +200% Aphro Attack on World Splitter and are hitting for 270, it only adds an additional 45.
clear haven
Yeah, that I figured.
Kinda hard to do it any other way.
I think it even mults Bouldy.
chrome geyser
turbid needle
You are correct that for additional sources of damage that increase base damage with increasing level/rarity, those get way better.
chrome geyser
It is bonus damage for everything; but it stacks additively with other boosts.
It will make your 100 damage doom deal 150 for example
turbid needle
50% of common Lightning Strike is 5, 50% of level 3 Heroic is like 15.
clear haven
That's how I got the FIRST hades kill/
I got that sweet Zeus/Posiedon traint. I'm not even sure if my build can be repeated on this patch.
chrome geyser
But if you have impending doom (+70% doom damage); your doom won't deal 100*1.7*1.5 = 255 damage. It will deal 100 * (1 + .5 + .7) = 220 damage
chrome geyser
The only thing that really works multiplicatively with other things is crit. Nothing else.
clear haven
I mean if you make things stack mult you get into strange order cases.
chrome geyser
Every damage has some base damage and modifiers. Some modifiers only affect the damage from your cast or weapons. Anything that says Attack, Special or Cast
It's a great damage boost for sure
clear haven
I guess what I mean is, if I took the first derivative of the damage function resulting from the average effect of the 2stat boost, it would be x(n)
But I dunno.
clear haven
Yup.
clear haven
Yeah, like I sez, I depend on it.
I dunno what I will do when it's no longer enough.
chrome geyser
You should not disassemble your existing build just to get it; like i used to do.
clear haven
I know it's bad practice. It's the kind of thing I rail against on Warframe region chat. But I'm sort of in a rut. Maybe the update will break me out!
chrome geyser
It's usually easy to do so if you are not going artemis; to keep up privilege constantly
What heat mods do you use?
You can switch things around if you are in a rut. Or you don't need to go higher heat if you don't like it you know.
clear haven
sec, I will look
chrome geyser
I'm grinding for titan blood; but i'm pretty sure i'm going to go back to ~15 heat once i'm done. I don't like more than that.
thin tide
anyone been getting sound ~issues~ of late
chrome geyser
I had a few
thin tide
repeating sounds in the distance
chrome geyser
sometimes that
or sometimes some sound effects disappears.
A restart of the game fixes it though.
clear haven
Max Jury, Extreme 2, 1 calisthenics, 1 middle man, 1 Forced overtime, 2 damage control
I often increase FO and Extreme Measures.
chrome geyser
(You can restart safely when you enter a new room and don't take any damage.
chrome geyser
Jury is +60% enemies?
turbid needle
At 3 levels.
clear haven
Yes. I run it maxed
earnest ravine
Yeah!
chrome geyser
Try changing it around; maybe remove damage control and add +30 HP
and change max jury to shop prices
clear haven
Number of enemies isn't ever an issue, it's only some of the Elites that can make real trouble.
chrome geyser
i would suggest going extreme 3 too! Extreme and middle management are pretty good early modifiercs.
Since they only impact in one (or 3) room
clear haven
I concur. Extreme doesn't really make the fights harder much, and in some ways the Theseus fight is easier.
I do fear the furies.
earnest ravine
If you have difficulty reacting I would actually suggest going against Middle Management. The one in Asphodel can be a super big jump in difficulty compared to EM.
chrome geyser
And i think 3rd biome bosses are much faster/tedious on extreme versions.
clear haven
If I can get past them without a down it's usually good from there.
hollow minnow
Blood and darkness! I got a quater through the Final Boss' second phase with the bow before dying! So close!! The farthest I've ever gotten! I gotta get better! I'm trying to improve with the bow, spear, and gun. 😛
earnest ravine
Aaay, that's darn good progress! You'll get it next time!
clear haven
@hollow minnow You'll get there.
chrome geyser
Furies is; is it tisiphone and is alecto aiding her?
Then lose a DD to the spinning ball of death.
clear haven
It actually depends.
hollow minnow
Yes I was so proud of myself for getting that far!!
clear haven
There's one main fury, and two supporting.
hollow minnow
I'm trying to do 9 heat with the shield as a break from the bow. I can't seem to get past 9 heat with that thing!
thanks everybody 😄 😄
clear haven
@hollow minnow You ought to be. Getting that first breath of air was my biggest challenge. After the first hades kill it got a lot easier.
chrome geyser
I much rather meg, or both helping tisiphone rather than just alecto.
I hate the blades when the room is small.
clear haven
@hollow minnow Shield is OP.
Or, well no.
Not OP, but I think maybe the best weapon.
turbid needle
Only best weapon because it has so much invulnerability.
chrome geyser
Just as a heads up @clear haven ; we try to avoid saying the final bosses name since it counts as spoilers; and spoilers are contained to #h1-story-discussion
turbid needle
It's in the bottom two in terms of damage.
clear haven
Understood.
turbid needle
But that invulnerability is really really good.
chrome geyser
Final boss or FB or spinny disco laser boi are all accepted replacements
clear haven
@turbid needle Starts out that way for sure, and I feel that it has the best Hammer boosts.
turbid needle
Nah, Rail spikes highest with its hammers.
clear haven
Okay, I could see that.
clear haven
Especially with the new Danger Close rail hammer.
turbid needle
The shield is the least transformed by hammers and Aspects, but it's so good at its very default stage that it doesn't need that much help.
chrome geyser
It has DPS problems; but is remedied by the aspects which both has very rapid hits on special; which god boons help augment.
turbid needle
Hazard Bomb, Inescapable Blast, and Hestia. 
chrome geyser
DR?
chrome geyser
Oh lol.
clear haven
Yeah, I tend to come out of that one kinda banged up.
clear haven
If I don't have good DPS by then I'm hosed.
There's no where to stand once the heads start area denial.
sacred idol
@chrome geyser obstacles is fine and they help imo, the lava does not
If you don't cheese it, then it's just pain
clear haven
I dunno how to cheese that one.
Sooner or later one of the hekkin heads splats the platforms in... whatever it is the Hydra spits.
chrome geyser
Obstacles get in my way of dashing around.
And blocks ALL my shots.
Thats why i hate them.
sacred idol
Cheese involves a summon to gib it
clear haven
Oh, one thing I did find out on my last spear run: The dash-mulitiattack reduction of dash range is actually HELPFUL for mouse and keyboard.
chrome geyser
If i don't have burst, i summon than to break armors of 4 heads in stage 2.
chrome geyser
To me that can be a run killer for the final boss; since you need the dash away from triple spins.
clear haven
For me it's still that wretched Athinean.
sacred idol
@chrome geyser Technically though, it did flood a place that is not normally covered in it
clear haven
And I HATE getting killed by him.
chrome geyser
Unless I already have the extra dash or ms after dash boon from hermes; i don't take it.
sacred idol
So it may be lava
Technically
Er, functionally.
Technically magma
But functionally and behaviorally lava
clear haven
You know, you couldn't sink in lava?
turbid needle
Jestir, have you tried dash to courser?
clear haven
Assuming you could somehow endure the heat, you wouldn't sink.
clear haven
@turbid needle Not sure I know what that is.
chrome geyser
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
turbid needle
Option in Controls.
clear haven
Wat that do?
turbid needle
Excuse me, "Dash at Cursor".
clear haven
Oh!
turbid needle
Makes you dash in the direction of your mouse.
turbid needle
I used it in Hyper Light Drifter somehow to effect, but I haven't tried it here, the mouse gets lost too easily.
clear haven
It's on by default in Hyper Light. Drove me nuts until they patched in a menu command.
turbid needle
Same, @chrome geyser
clear haven
Lol.
turbid needle
Oh. Uh. 
sacred idol
Yeah, I cannot imagine NOT being able to strafe on the Rail.
clear haven
Great minds!
chrome geyser
I like attacking at an enemies face
clear haven
It also would defeat the point of mouse and keyboard.
sacred idol
With Zeus rail my playstyle is just...
turbid needle
Definitely used it to clear the dash challenge, just had a 215 bpm beat playing on YouTube and I was staring at my space bar.
clear haven
Being able to dash in one direction and shoot in another.
sacred idol
Ridiculous dashing around and strafe shooting at high velocity
chrome geyser
And they move closer as my rail is spinning . . . rails? . . . at the enemies face
Just when they think they put some damage on me
Boom
turbid needle
Yeah, I guess you never dash and attack simultaneously in HLD.
chrome geyser
I'm dashing like a slickster with my aim STILL on the enemy
sacred idol
But what if it fired snails
chrome geyser
Get rekt
turbid needle
at least I never did
clear haven
@sacred idol Those would be more effective...
sacred idol
@chrome geyser quintuple cluster near melee cast
chrome geyser
Hmm; poseidon confirmed actual owner of the rail?
sacred idol
With artemis crit and heart rend.
chrome geyser
Aphrodite or demetere are my favs on the x5 blast.
clear haven
Huh. My next attempt will be my 200th.
turbid needle
Good luck! I'm just past 900.
sacred idol
Zeus attack, demeter special, cold fusion
chrome geyser
BTW had athena on special too. The deflect radius; if you take the rocket upgrade; is the same as original.
sacred idol
Rofl
thin tide
I thought the rail was Hestia's?
sacred idol
Sounds hard to use without rocket though
chrome geyser
So you shoot a rocket and it deflects anything within the radius as it flies away.
clear haven
@sacred idol Still won't beat the zeus/posiedon waveruin combo.
chrome geyser
No it's so easy
chrome geyser
Because it covers a massive area
sacred idol
Huh? But don't you have to time the bomb landing to deflect
chrome geyser
The bomb travels slower than an arrow
and pretty much deflects everything around it.
clear haven
You technically do, but it's sort of hard to miss @sacred idol
'specially with 3bomb hammer.
chrome geyser
It deflects cluster bullets without touching them
Even if there is like 3 enemies worth distance between the bullets and the cluster.
sacred idol
If it doesn't need to be predicted way in advance, then yes, it sounds great
chrome geyser
If you make it graze the meelee enemies attacking you; if deflects them beautifly
chrome geyser
Now that's something.
sacred idol
Spent Spirit, the true build of immortals
chrome geyser
Deflecting rocket is a new thing; and the flourish dps upgrade of heroic athena is the same as epic aphrodite so pretty good if you are offered athena as an exchange boon.
sacred idol
What's a "ranged attack"?
chrome geyser
Danger upgrade is just not that feel-good for me
clear haven
Can you get rocket AND cluster?
turbid needle
I much prefer Eris to Hestia, so I never take Hazard Bomb.
Kinda wish it didn't spawn with it.
chrome geyser
You pretty much shoot 5 rockets in a spread though
clear haven
@chrome geyser The damage is glorious tho.
turbid needle
Rocket Cluster Eris with Deadly Flourish is insane.
clear haven
Oh, I think I got that actually...
chrome geyser
Oh yeah point blank 500 base damage
turbid needle
Rocket Bomb was fine with 80 damage.
chrome geyser
turbid needle
Each bomb is cut by 30%, only 350.
sacred idol
I prefer normal cluster on KBM
chrome geyser
oh right
sacred idol
Because the issue is that you need to be in shotgun range for cluster rocket
clear haven
I mostly use the rail mortars as means of distributing Weak or Expozed or Jolted or whatever.
So I can get the two-stat bonus on primary.
sacred idol
But you get like... rail base range on quintuple bombs
turbid needle
Mortars aren't as great for damage, but they're not bad at all.
chrome geyser
On eris; you can shoot a rocket at a wall very quickly to get the boost.
sacred idol
And can take any second hammer you want
chrome geyser
I usually rather not get it too on kbm since i like aiming the bombs
clear haven
Eris?
chrome geyser
Eris is the aspect of the rail
clear haven
Oh, right.
chrome geyser
Bonus damage on everything for 8 seconds if you absorb a blast
Hestia aspect plays VERY differently.
chrome geyser
While eris and zagreus play pretty much the same.
solid cairn
Anyone know who’s in the picture in #announcements
chrome geyser
With the lack of stutter on rail; you will never fully unload a magazine on an enemy before having to reposition. Even with flurry fire. And you can reload while you reposition.
Thats why i don't like zag aspect.
@solid cairn no one knows yet.
Probably either chiron or nyx.
People see stars and assume it's nyx.
clear haven
Quetzecuatl is my pick. (SP?)
chrome geyser
Or it could be demeter summer form; holding the new weapon. Since we are missing her infernal arms as original mythos vs the titans
chrome geyser
Quetzalcoatl?
clear haven
And we know it's not an olympian.
chrome geyser
Do we?
clear haven
@chrome geyser There isn't really a right way to spell it in english, I guess.
chrome geyser
"A powerful new Titan-slaying weapon awaits, plus plenty of new artwork, story, and surprises. Until then!"
chrome geyser
The new weapon is a whole new weapon; we know it will be the olympian one
solid cairn
So new weapon is probs gonna be a ranged one
Because the last space is next to rail and bow
chrome geyser
I know; quetzalcoatl is a mezo-american deity right?
clear haven
Yeah.
solid cairn
Wonder if they’ll add another 4th aspect
chrome geyser
I think at the end every weapon is gonna get a 4th aspect; that is outside greek mythos
lament coral
I would imagine the new weapon comes with all 4 aspects from the start
sacred idol
@solid cairn The One That Floats
sacred idol
It better be or I will riot
chrome geyser
@lament coral i believe the opposite
sacred idol
Very quietly
clear haven
Titans don't HAVE blood!
sacred idol
And politely
clear haven
They spew Ichor!
lament coral
they clearly have blood
chrome geyser
I think they will want it to be played with and tested first before adding a transformative aspect
lament coral
and since they can bleed, we can kill em
chrome geyser
If they follow the tradition with spear and guan yu
solid cairn
It’s gonna be completely different
chrome geyser
Do titans have ichor or blood?
clear haven
That would be wisdom @chrome geyser
solid cairn
Haven’t played hades in a while for reasons I don’t know
chrome geyser
I thought olympians have ichor because they dine on ambrosia and nectar
clear haven
They have Ichor. The Pharmacists used plants that grew where the Ichor spilled.
lament coral
@chrome geyser I don't see the connection regarding the spear and GY
chrome geyser
Because GY transform the spear. The special is very different (damages aoe and does not return; it's like it also has built in explosive launcher). The attack is very different too; the spin attack becomes a slow moving ranged attack. It is transformative compared to the other aspects; which just adds a side ability (zippity zoppity, achilles has you bouncing around the arena) or enhances an existing ability (spin attack in hades)
The only other "transformative" aspect i see is zeus aspect of shield; which is less drastic.
SGG do not have usage data on the new weapon yet. Since they plan this game on user feedback to a degree; i think they will wait and see what people like about this weapon, how they use it; and tweak and balance it. The extra aspect will come much later I think; to take the new weapon in another direction.
GY on spear was made because I think the spear currently is the most boring weapon; on the non-GY aspects.
sacred idol
Uh...
chrome geyser
That's my opininon though; nothing for certain until it is released.
sacred idol
Shield at base is the most boring I would say
Aspects are fresher but base shield... bleh
Achilles is actually a really clever playstyle. It's just clunky
But fun and very much different
chrome geyser
Yup. I wish there was no chargeup for throw on achilles.
sacred idol
Hades I guess isn't that great as an aspect.
Chargeup?
It's not charged...
It's just a bit too much lag
lament coral
ok, what?
lament coral
are you telling me that Achilles spear is not transformative then?
chrome geyser
If that was eliminated you could use achilles much more tactically.
It does not change the way the weapon plays. You still attack like the base weapon.
lament coral
and Zeus shield still attacks like a shield, and GY spear still attacks like a spear
it's the other functions that change
chrome geyser
Well; it feels transformative to me at least.
lament coral
ok, so Hestia rail is also transformative then
jagged cairn
I've got 25 Blood and enough Diamonds and Ambrosia to buy another 20 waiting.
lament coral
cause it changes your attack
sacred idol
I guess there's a point in that they aren't an entirely new move set.
iron shale
so what your peoples favorite guan yu builds ?
chrome geyser
Spear has 3 things:
- Attack: base (Same across all)
- Attack: spin (Non-GY)
- Special: throw (Non-GY)
Shield has 3 things: - Attack: base (Same accross all)
- Attack: rush (Same accross all)
- Special: throw (Non-zeus)
I think they are transformative yes; but not as much as GY
lament coral
so, we got degrees now?
chrome geyser
With hestia; it adds something new where there was none; but does not change base behaviour.
Yeah something can be less or more transformative for sure.
lament coral
by your own logic, Chaos shield is about as "transformative" as GY
since you don't Bull Rush into special with the other variations
chrome geyser
I don't see it that way. It just enhances the special.
To the point where it is useful.
lament coral
you need to Bull Rush to get the special special
chrome geyser
I had builds when i used the base and rush in to special
Well you can rush, and then the next special will be special
You don't have to special right away
lament coral
wow, that plays totally different from the other shield aspects
my point is, the whole "transformative" thing is bull
chrome geyser
Feel free to disagree; but I don't think chaos aspect plays much differently than zag aspect.
While GY plays much more differently than the other aspects.
jagged cairn
I definitely use special a lot more with Chaos and Zeus vs Zag.
lament coral
GY has a slow attack and a built-in explosive special
the only actually new thing is the spin
quaint gazelle
gy was actually the weapon i used to beat skellys 8 heat challenge surprisingly
that's when i got the busted spin attack run
chrome geyser
GY spin is amazing when you get the good hammer upgrades
quaint gazelle
yeah
lament coral
that's the issue with GY, it's a slave to the quick spin hammer
quaint gazelle
yeah true
turbid needle
Spear is almost always a slave to Quick Spin.
lament coral
it helps that some of the other hammers are removed from its pool, so it's easier to fall back on charged special if you don't get the quick spin
quaint gazelle
wish there were weapon specific boons
lament coral
I wish the hammers were better
jagged cairn
I'd love to see Daedalus offer a Hammer swap somewhere through a run.
sacred idol
@quaint gazelle How do you get that challenge at all?
I'm past 8 heat and have no statue
quaint gazelle
really?
sacred folio
Guan Yu can also work well with Charged Skewer, right? It has a free Exploding Launcher (and piercing, making it better) upgrade to begin with.
sacred idol
Yeah.
lament coral
@sacred idol I think you needed to complete Skelly's quest first
quaint gazelle
what quest?
lament coral
it does
sacred idol
@quaint gazelle zagreus sword kill, did you do it
sacred folio
Also Guan Yu only has 6 available hammer upgrades, which makes getting the desired hammer upgrade a lot easier
lament coral
I think you can do 32 right away and get all of em
quaint gazelle
@sacred idol yeah but AFTER the statue appeared
lament coral
don't quote me on it tho
quaint gazelle
you don't have to do the quest i don't think since again the statue appeared before i did the quest
lament coral
@sacred folio easier but still not guaranteed. I had the quick spin hammer in about half my GY runs.
chrome geyser
GY can work really well without the spin upgrade
chrome geyser
I usually take charged skewer over faster spin if offered
sacred idol
Game bugged maybe
lament coral
I used charge special in the other ones, and did exactly 1 run with the triple dash attack hammer
sacred folio
Lore-wise I always think Guan Yu's is a glaive so to me it's the 6th weapon already.