bobber bobs, if it's not a fake tug, you press button again
#h1-builds-and-combat
stable oyster
I mean it’s not that bad, 1/3 of a second is pretty tale compared to most dodge timings
mellow aurora
if theres no aquarium where you can pet the fish, then why fish at all 
stable oyster
Especially at forced overtime
turbid needle
Give 'em to the chef, get goods in return.
sacred idol
@stable oyster arguably, that IS kind of the issue underlying
the game isn't friendly for people with poor reflexes or mechanical impairments.
It could stand to be better.
runic jewel
I think it's fine how it is, the issue is not having accessible non-dangerous methods of accruing extra gems on your run
sacred idol
Adjustable timing windows would be a great option.
stable oyster
It’s a reflex based game tho
sacred idol
So? So is Celeste
stable oyster
Depending on weapons
tiny portal
It needs an audio cue at the very least
atomic mist
Maybe that's something to ask when the next Q&A happens. If they have plans on adding something like that
stable oyster
We have god mode
sacred idol
Just because "the game is like that" isn't really an excuse.
God mode is kind of simplistic and lacking, and does nothing for things like this
mellow aurora
i have poor reflexes and i have beaten Hades a few times and previous endpoints over a 100 times. it just takes practice
tiny portal
A discerbible "real catch is here" audio cue
runic jewel
or by the time that you are going to ask them, have some solutions to offer
tiny portal
discernible*
stable oyster
Only think I can think of would be some sort of game slowdown
Like spent spirit
Maybe like 10%
That might work
mellow aurora
if you anticipate moves you could dodge. i dont fail at the game and thin " wow this game is too hard, and they need to make it easier". I think "wow i need to get good"
sacred idol
I mean, yeah, that's actually exactly what CrossCode does.
It has the reverse of Overtime, basically
"Slow down attack frequency" afaik
and slow down puzzles
@mellow aurora That's rather an inconsiderate viewpoint - I talked to someone yesterday in discussion who has a serious disability that would make that an unreasonable answer, but likes playing games like this.
stable oyster
But we can’t forget that personal improvement is a big core pillar of roguelikes
sacred idol
One of my friends has a serious muscle disorder
But she's a long time Supergiant fan.
stable oyster
I’m all for options
sacred idol
@stable oyster And? For people who have less ability or less skill, they'll still have a baseline harder experience.
earnest ravine
Maybe an upgrade to the fishing rod through the House Contractor to make the windows longer, to make the real catch mote noticeable? Since right now we are just kind of using a fancy stick.
sacred idol
It's leveling the playing field for those who need it.
stable oyster
But I wouldn’t want to go overboard
sacred idol
What even is "overboard"?
stable oyster
Robbing someone of the feeling of self improvement
sacred idol
To the point that everyone who wants to can play the game doesn't seem like a big ask to me
It's not robbing anyone.
stable oyster
Not what I’m saying at all
sacred idol
If you don't want to use it, then you don't use it
If you don't need to, then don't
People should play how they want.
runic jewel
I mean the same argument could be made about fishing then?
sacred idol
If you want a certain level of challenge, that you are entirely physically capable of beating, and then use options to scale back that challenge, that is on you, not on anyone else.
That was your mistake to make.
sacred folio
I guess it'll boil down to developers' budget & trade-off: implementing a fine-tuned accessibility feature for an optional mini-game doesn't seem to be of high priority
sacred idol
It's currently the only really time-efficient means of getting gems.
abstract pilot
i stopped running tight deadline because otherwise i miss the fishing sound 😦
if you're getting beaten up or have a timer on you might not want to take the troves though
sacred idol
to get gems
mellow aurora
im blind in one eye, and its hard to see whats going on the screen, and focus but i still think a game should have integrity in its difficulty
sacred idol
at least, personally, I get a kajillion darkness and obol ones
mellow aurora
you are using snowflake logic
mellow aurora
its true dude. you can have a disability and still work to improve. not all games have to be made for everyone
stable oyster
I think hotshots point, and what I meant by going overboard, is that if you make this setting too easy, you take away a core part of the game from these people
It’s a balance
sacred idol
Calling names isn't going to make me respect your opinion.
mellow aurora
its a matter of mentality. do you want the game to be tailered to you or do you want to work to improve and have a sense of satisfaction
stable oyster
And will be different for everyone
sacred idol
[sigh]
I'm really not in the mood for this nonsense.
The most important factor is still: What in the fresh Hades does it have to do with you?
If it makes other players happier, then it's a good thing.
runic jewel
Well, I think #h1-builds-and-combat is not the channel for feedback about the accessibility of fishing
runic jewel
I think they should decrease the window of time
And that way it is equally impossible for everyone to catch fish
abstract pilot
i mean, if you add more levers to reduce the difficulty of the game, then some people who would have been able to play without those levers would impatiently use them to their own detriment, in the sense of not getting as satisfying of an experience
abstract pilot
but that doesn't mean that having those levers is bad
sacred idol
Some people find it more satisfying.
abstract pilot
just a con of having it
tiny portal
@runic jewel Where would you post about it? Its part of the gameplay and the feedback channel explicitly states not to discuss in it, and for some reason I cannot post in that channel
abstract pilot
personally i think having more accessibility is good, but it is hard to do
sacred idol
@tiny portal read the pins
abstract pilot
celeste is like, uniquely good i feel?
mellow aurora
"my friend has a disability" that isnt the end all be all. people use this arguement as a crutch. i want to be sympathetic, so i never have a good response. However, im blind in one eye, and i do struggle with videogames, because of it. I have always blamed my own skill instead of "they need to add options to compensate for my unfair disadvantage". Like i said its abount mentality.
sacred idol
@mellow aurora Calling people snowflakes and insisting that they're "crutching" doesn't incline me to conclude that your mindset is the correct one.
You can't even talk about it without talking down to people.
runic jewel
I mean, I wouldn't have a discussion on the internet about it at all. I would wait until a company who makes themselves available often, does so, and present them with viable solutions to go along with whatever they might already be cooking.
sacred idol
As far as I can tell, you've convinced yourself that your insistence on going without assistance makes you somehow better than other people who have disabilities.
This is how it comes off, at least.
In that case, perhaps we shouldn't have wheelchair ramps, and paraplegics should just git gud at pulling themselves up by the teeth.
dusky hull
Is this ratio ok, or should I change it somehow, like, max out OF?
https://i.imgur.com/NzEvcz3.png
chrome viper
depends on how lucky you think you are I guess
sacred idol
You have spare darkness, throw in more if you have no other priorities
But are you playing on Budget Cuts...?
stable oyster
Any ratio works, it just depends on if you want Better average
mellow aurora
no. you misunderstood. I never thought about it like that. i thought i need to do better and practice the game, instead of wanting more accessible options. i make an effort to play the game the way it was meant to be played, because that is, in my opinion, the best way to play videogames, the way the devopers intended for the game to be played
sacred idol
If you're not, literally "as much as you can" is the correct answer, God's Pride is probably stronger if you've got that much chance, and the last 5% isn't really a big deal.
sacred folio
Well I did a quick search in the feedback channel and there doesn't seem to be any search results for keyword fishing yet.
abstract pilot
olympian favor goes to 50%, not 25%, right?
sacred idol
Oh wait, right.
tawdry horizon
@abstract pilot Yes it does, on max
sacred idol
In that case, I focused on Favor first to max, then Pride.
abstract pilot
i think that on the margin, 2% chance of rare is better than 1% chance of epic, but i wouldn't worry about it too much
plus, seeing epics is fun
dusky hull
No, it's not Budget Cuts, I just think if OF can decrease the spawn rate of epic boons somehow, since I don't know how rarity algorithms work exactly.
sacred idol
Epic will be more powerful, but you have a higher chance of getting a trash boon
tawdry horizon
Personally I maxed out the favors and doing pride as I get darkness xause I've maxed out everything else, no playing on budget cuts tho
sacred idol
I highly doubt that
It's more important to have non-garbage boons than to have maybe possibly slightly more epics.
dusky hull
So, max it out?
sacred idol
@mellow aurora The point is, that's not a mindset that everyone can or should necessarily have, and calling it "snowflake" to think otherwise is objectively looking down on people.
also yes, max it out
the more rarity boost, the better.
dusky hull
K.
stable oyster
Blood and darkness
abstract pilot
it's more buttons you have to press if you turn on budget cuts 😢
mellow aurora
@sacred idol why is that not a mindset to have? its a good mindset.
sacred idol
I mean... not necessarily.
People are different. People have different levels of ability and derive enjoyment from different things.
stable oyster
It’s a fishing mini game
sacred idol
It's not just about a fishing minigame.
mellow aurora
its less depressing. rather than focussing on shortcommings that you cant control, focus on things like you can control. practice and get better.
stable oyster
Both of you sound ridiculous
sacred idol
@stable oyster I was talking about more of the game than just fishing. You are ridiculous. Good day, night, or whatever time it is.
mellow aurora
@stable oyster how do i sound rediculous?
stable oyster
Well, imo the main game does a good job of giving you multiple options, you can definitely play non reflex intensive weapons like bow
mellow aurora
i wasnt arguing against any of that
stable oyster
Power shots are timing based not reflex based
sacred folio
secretly hopes the discussion can be turned down a bit and produces some actual result in #hades-feedback
sacred idol
The fishing minigame is just one minor thing that could be adjusted by a slider.
runic jewel
What if Zag only finds fishes when he's lost at least 1 death's defiance in a fight, so he's battle weary and sometimes his timing is off regardless of visual perception
sacred idol
But the point boils down to: No one loses anything if they do make the game easier to fine tune to different levels of ability.
Except those who choose to see it as a wound to their pride or a subtraction of their enjoyment despite not touching the options themselves.
mellow aurora
@sacred idol i beat dark souls
abstract pilot
one accessibility thing that i think would be nice would be the opposite of forced overtime
runic jewel
I mean maybe changing the frame rate of the game would be a more accessible challenge
abstract pilot
mashing the dash all the time actually hurts my fingers
sacred idol
Congratulations.
abstract pilot
i wouldn't use such an option, but i could see an older version of me wanting that
stable oyster
He said the d words
runic jewel
I think that I'd feel just as accomplished learning Assembly as I would catching a virtual fish.
solid cairn
DS isn’t as hard as people say
sacred idol
But really...
solid cairn
If you have no idea what you’re doing I guess it is
mellow aurora
@sacred idol that means only one thing, because everyone is given the same rules. if you add easy modes and god mode options, then that statement "i beat dark souls" or "dark souls is hard" is inherently split into multiple meanings
sacred idol
I mean, it already is.
blazing mulch
XD imagine an Hades with stamina mechanics
stable oyster
I mean dark souls has easy modes
sacred idol
If you're playing with a disability you are having a harder experience than the majority of people who do not.
runic jewel
Well okay, what about people who aren't pescatarian?
Why is there no vegan option to farm gems??
sacred idol
Dead Cells has that.
We can get Bread
I see your attempt to derail with sarcasm, but you know what? That's legitimately a thing devs have done.
runic jewel
???
sacred idol
Well, you've been trying to say "stop talking about it" for the last...
however long it's been.
mellow aurora
@sacred idol its either a harder experience or a different one. Fromsoftware, the creators of dark souls, respects the players and their ability to get better and their need for a sense of satisfaction.
runic jewel
As a developer and a person who's job involves a11y and a gamer, I care about all of these things
sacred idol
Well, why not have a conversation, then
runic jewel
With?
sacred idol
If you weren't the one who said we shouldn't talk about it and should wait for professionals to do it instead, my bad
stable oyster
So what are the issues you have with god mode?
mellow aurora
it doesnt cater to everyone on the planet. thats his problem with it
runic jewel
Yeah, that's the gist of my message. Talk with the people who can affecft the change you want to see and don't default them to the burden of solution.
runic jewel
Talk to the people impacted by it and find out what kind of minigames might be on theme and work for them
sacred idol
Every time I start to think you might begin to be reasonable, you throw out something designed to be provocative or insulting.
abstract pilot
to me, god mode seems like a not yet done feature?
sacred idol
Don't put words in my mouth, or I'm going to start doing the same and interpreting everything you say as "I'm better than other disabled people and those who can't get on my level are whiny babies".
stable oyster
How so h roll?
abstract pilot
like, it ramps up automatically but you can't ever ramp it down, then at some point you either have it on and take 20% damage or have it off, and there's no other choices
stable oyster
Ah I agree actually
wind vale
question - does god mode go down if you win?
earnest ravine
It does not.
mellow aurora
address the actual points i make then @sacred idol
runic jewel
I played Nioh for the first time alone in the dark last night and damn I was scared
Now that I think about it, it didn't even really have that scary of a beginning
grand patrol
hey guys, i'd like to step in and ask everyone heated to calm down a moment, please!
mellow aurora
@sacred idol isnt that what a slider for every damage variable in the game is? it completely undoes the integrity of the games design
ok sorry
sacred idol
I'm not sure why integrity is only a thing if it makes the game harder.
stable oyster
I definitely thing god mode should start at 0%
sacred idol
People ONLY bring up this argument in the context of making the game easier.
stable oyster
I thought it was 20 right?
sacred idol
No one ever claims it betrays the integrity of a game to have something like Doom's nightmare mode, where almost nothing changes except the trashiest enemies oneshot you.
abstract pilot
i also thought it was 20 to start
mellow aurora
@sacred idol its also relevant with mods. im fine with talking about that.
mellow quest
It starts at 20% DR and ramps up to 80% as you die
abstract pilot
i haven't actually used it, so all i have to go off of is the patch notes
mellow quest
I don't know more than that because I don't play with it on
stable oyster
Can it ever go below 20 tho?
mellow aurora
@sacred idol but we werent alking about mods we were talking about game difficulty
abstract pilot
i believe as is, it only goes up
sacred idol
People whined like babies when someone modded their own individual copy of Sekiro to be easier...
stable oyster
I Don’t remember that
mellow quest
The hardest part of sekiro is realizing it's a rhythm game
wind vale
only if you consider using heat to take more damage countering it it would go below 20 afaik
sacred idol
That was literally the point of that one copypasta about "you cheated not only the game"
wind vale
the you cheated not only the game thingy was about a game tester saying he used trainers and the devs being silly
mellow aurora
however cheesy and lame the comment was, it had some truth to it.
runic jewel
I mean why do we play these games?
wind vale
very little considering it was a tester that didnt have the time for that
stable oyster
I think why do we play games is a very important question here
runic jewel
I thought the storyline of Sekiro was about finding his other hand for prolly 90% of it
sacred idol
No, it was an article writer who used a mod to make the reaction time longer, because they couldn't play the game @wind vale
mellow aurora
a game like sekiro gives you satisfaction in beating it. thats the main draw of the game
stable oyster
Lmao
runic jewel
I am not good at rhythm or reaction games
like in the least
I am the greediest duelist I know
sacred idol
Also, how many times do I have to reiterate that different people play games for different reasons?
runic jewel
These games abuse me
sacred idol
I'll say it twenty more times if necessary.
runic jewel
But after 7 hours of making the same single mistake over and over again
I can go home and continue to make mistakes over and overr again
wind vale
also - to come back to this game here - im a bit sad that it seems to go more towards reaction timing and action over decision making as a skill
mellow aurora
@sacred idol well there are different games for different reason for playing games. dark souls and sekiro has a certain appeal. the appeal is satisfaction in victory. want a quote from the director of the game?
wind vale
at least thats how i see it
sacred idol
I mean
runic jewel
I just wonder how many people who are not as enabled as I am would feel alienated about having the game made easier for them
sacred idol
So should I assume that satisfaction is only attained one way?
crystal geyser
abstract pilot
@wind vale well, it is an action game after all, not really a strategy game
sacred idol
By something being balls hard, that is the ONLY source of satisfaction, that is the only source of self-improvement
wind vale
not really
sacred idol
The concept is not processed the same way for every person who plays videogames.
runic jewel
I mean it depends on what kind of game it is
sacred idol
@runic jewel ...very few?
grand patrol
i think this is getting off topic, here
runic jewel
And also what you're looking for in it
wind vale
its shifting in that reaction more and more but i dont think thats the point
stable oyster
#off-topic-discussion at this point
Kam has spoken
Their will shall be done
Uenuku I am curious to know why you think that, I haven’t played in a while
runic jewel
I mean it could be something as simple as a slider that adjusts the timing window of the "twitch reaction" moment
That the user could tune to their version of challenging
mellow aurora
i think its time for a topic switch lmao
sacred idol
to forcibly re-rail this before I go back to focusing on something far more offtopic (warframe's devstream), I do not see any valid reason Hades couldn't have or benefit from an option like what juice just proposed. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Which is exactly the sort of thing I would have specifically suggested.
oblique tusk
what did juice propose?
sacred idol
I mean it could be something as simple as a slider that adjusts the timing window of the "twitch reaction" moment
oblique tusk
n
runic jewel
Effective immediately
stable oyster
I think god mode is enough personally
sacred idol
literally this, that's about the kind of thing I would have said
runic jewel
I think it's a reasonable accessibility setting that is easy to opt out of
grand patrol
honestly what id love to see is reverse heat
stable oyster
Yo
wind vale
hard to explain - rogue-ish games tend to be so focused about knowledge what works with what and if you combine it right (with some luck)they almost seem to play themselves
stable oyster
That’s a throwback
grand patrol
everything heat does, i want the option to slide the other way. slower enemies, less damage, etc
mellow aurora
Whoever it was that decided to put the poison cure between the beyblade traps, is just plain evil
sacred idol
to be honest, reverse heat is actually a good idea.
stable oyster
Packt of easier
mellow aurora
i like the idea of reverse heat too
grand patrol
yeah!
sacred idol
Anyway - I will say, integrity of the game comes into play if the devs state they don't want a thing
stable oyster
I was pushing for that so hard and people hated it
wind vale
the more you can beat using reactions and iframes instead of it the more it feels action heavy and decisions matter less
sacred idol
And if they don't state that they don't WANT to make the game a certain way, then it's no one's business assuming.
wind vale
and that usually comes with it speeding up
grand patrol
at the end of the day, i think a game is meant to be fun to the individual playing it, no matter how they want to play.
stable oyster
I can see that
mellow aurora
integrity comes into play when a developer has an intended way to play the game within the game design. reverse heat counts, but god mode doesnt count
stable oyster
I think It’s important to recognize that different weapons require different skill sets
stable oyster
I don’t see why god mode wouldn’t
sacred idol
intent is communicated, not simply presumed
wind vale
one really small example - and i know im really in the minority there - i preferred the old movement until mdk, so before beefy
runic jewel
But is it explicitly communicated or implicitly ?
sacred idol
until what
stable oyster
Was that the old dash?
wind vale
mdk= murder death kill
mellow aurora
@stable oyster cause its tact on just like an easy mode
wind vale
yea
sacred idol
oh I thought mdk was literally that ancient game on gog
stable oyster
It definitely had a lot of thought put into it tho
wind vale
meaning i think before the may update
sacred idol
stable oyster
That’s why it scales with you
velvet basalt
....i played MDK back in grade school
stable oyster
It should just start at 0% imo
sacred idol
See, Supergiant has had a long and proven track record of trying to be an inclusive dev in some ways, though - look at their writing.
abstract pilot
i don't think it should start at 0% because then it would be confusing, lol
like you equip it and nothing happens
sacred idol
I'm not sure there's any conceivable way to say adding another form of inclusivity would go against the developer's vision in any way.
wind vale
and maybe it could scale faster the earlier you die? - regarding god mode - if it doesnt already
stable oyster
Maybe it starts at 20 but resets back to 0 on s clear
runic jewel
that didn't count against your keepsake count
mellow aurora
hades gets easier when you use the mirror. thats easier difficulty
sacred idol
That said, I also believe that the correct way to play a game is the way that gives you the greatest enjoyment, period.
stable oyster
Also certain keepsakes make the game easier as well
sacred idol
No matter what that means to you. UNLESS it harms another player.
abstract pilot
does the god mode tick up when you die in the whole run, or on every life?
wind vale
that is also true - filling the mirror buffs you much more than god mode
abstract pilot
i see
mellow aurora
@sacred idol losing isnt enjoyable so should every game make it so you cant lose?
abstract pilot
maybe it could just tick down every time you win a run, and tick up every time you lose
stable oyster
Ok back to hades pls
sacred idol
If someone thinks that's how they have fun, they can make that a thing. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
grand patrol
I mean, games like pyre and hades are specifically built around accounting for loss, so...yeah!
abstract pilot
then it would have the effect of adjusting to your skill too
solid cairn
So everyone gonna sandbag until max god mode
stable oyster
You can’t lose if you are always having fun!
abstract pilot
i mean, you already do that...
stable oyster
Live your best life
abstract pilot
you can*
grand patrol
after playing those two, i realized going to other games how much i cant stand when losing in a game makes me do over progress.
wind vale
that is something this game tries to do - making death seem less like losing but more progressing
grand patrol
hades and pyre both reward the player for losing with narrative etc
runic jewel
I mean at least you can blame the game
mellow aurora
the art, the music, and the characters make hades fun regardless of if i win or lose
grand patrol
yeah!
stable oyster
Ngl I restated after one lost rite in pyre because I was so sad
grand patrol
awwwww
abstract pilot
pyre did that, but let's be honest i restarted until i won every time anyway 😛
stable oyster
But in rogue likes you never lose progress
stable oyster
The progress is your skill
grand patrol
i started another platformer and it was like oh you died start over and it made me so frustrated i quit! truly supergiant has spoiled me 
stable oyster
And game knowledge
abstract pilot
you could lose progress by putting your titan blood into hades aspect (oooooh burn)
velvet basalt
I have bad memories to losing a 30-minute hunt because Uragaan rolled up behind me out of nowhere while I was fighting someone else entirely. Dang near killed me
stable oyster
In monster hunter when you die 30 min into the boss fight ....
mellow aurora
i loved the win and lose state in pyre. it actually raised the stakes since a lose would effect the story in a meaningfull way
velvet basalt
hahahaha
stable oyster
Oof
velvet basalt
sobs
runic jewel
I think that's what I've realized about the genre that I like - losing sucks but it prompts you into the mindset of win or learn
grand patrol
yeah!
stable oyster
But in my experience god mode is a great solution
Because failure (getting hit) is just as likely, but you have more of a safety net
It allows you to practice the base game while still being possible
And it adjusts to you personally
sacred idol
The only issue is that it doesn't reset when toggled.
runic jewel
I think it's implemented nicely. I personally feel like I'm cheating when I use it
so I try not to. But if it helps someone else enjoy the game, hell yeah cheers from iraq
sacred idol
Only thing I think is strictly necessary is colorblind mode, one thing that's optional but would be appreciated is ways to raise or lower the timing windows for actions like iframes, fishing, power shots
runic jewel
Lol
What if God mode gave you a new pantheon of boons
That were just like ludicrous and strong
stable oyster
Do we have actual I frame numbers for dashes
I feel like it’s already the entire dash
sacred idol
I believe it's tied, particularly, to Zagreus flashing.
stable oyster
What %of the dash is I frames
runic jewel
I'd guess 40%
or maybe 20%
I assume the rest of what feels like an iframe is just the character relocating
I could see if it's in the sauce
runic jewel
but reading that much Lua yesterday really made me way too tired to find what i was actually looking for since i got stuck at the fishing logic
for like an hour
granite vine
doesn't hell mode do that already?
stable oyster
No
sacred idol
No, it removes your oneshot prevention.
mellow aurora
imagine being so good that max heat doesnt do it for you hahaha
stable oyster
Hades using his spin attack? Too bad
Eat 60
I have a file with 100% forced overtime
Louts are insane
granite vine
I couldn't even get past Hydra with one tick of overtime, let alone full 😭
sacred idol
I have zero idea what it is, but there's one attack that can instakill you with no heat
also, that's not full. that's 5 ranks of overtime.
that's a modded meme run
velvet basalt
"Oh thank goodness i'm outside of the spin tell"
"Okay lemme just zip over there towards you and dunk all over your face"
stable oyster
No, not full overtime
sacred idol
that is 5/2 ranks
stable oyster
Full overtime is 50% 🙂
granite vine
omg no
sacred idol
was nerfed afaik
mellow aurora
i cant wait for this game to show up on GDQ
stable oyster
I’m talking 100%
granite vine
my brain is mush now
stable oyster
It’s a bugged file
granite vine
how are people so good
granite vine
absolute monstrosities I tell ya
granite vine
^me, dashing right into lava after beating hydra
stable oyster
I mean I think it is technically possible
granite vine
taking 5 ticks of damage and ending my run
dire cedar
Can I just say I finally beat 32 heat. I'm so happy
stable oyster
Shield with Athena dash
runic jewel
as oppo0sed to dashing wrong in into it
stable oyster
Congrats
granite vine
well done @dire cedar !!!
as oppo0sed to dashing wrong in into it
nonono, you either dash right or you dash left
dire cedar
Pretty standard. Chaos shield, Demeter special. Got a bunch of Demeter boons including Legendary
runic jewel
!!!
dire cedar
Thanks friends
stable oyster
The old shotgun shield build
dire cedar
Also lambent plume
stable oyster
O spicy
sacred idol
I've actually survived Hades by dashing through him, and yet died atrociously to being a finger width away from the circle.
dire cedar
Had about 20% by the end
sacred idol
dire cedar
Also I had the 15% dodge boon
sacred idol
Woah, wait, did you have the ice blast to spam @dire cedar
dire cedar
A little less. Each room is 1.2%
runic jewel
parsedc
granite vine
ooh I tried that once, that was fun
dire cedar
Yes I had ice blast but not until Styx or so
sacred idol
that's an explosion and 2 every two throws
runic jewel
local co-op would be fun
granite vine
face them and kaplowie
dire cedar
Things died just from charge special combo mostly
dire cedar
No Middle Management
sacred idol
I love Demeter boons.
runic jewel
and the other is heatinig it up
sacred idol
Best designed god in the game, imo
dire cedar
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/569857034715922432/677717992418836525/32HEATnanaTotempole.PNG
wind vale
chiron special applies 1 chill per arrow
its great with the explosion that clears the stacks
dire cedar
I got killing freeze really early and that helped a lot
sacred idol
Chiron applies them all, yeah
granite vine
more kaplowie
sacred idol
Lambent Plume 32 heat!?
granite vine
but still only one Zeus bolt right
sacred idol
Holy crap.
dire cedar
Hell yeah
sacred idol
You live on the edge
dire cedar
I didn't go for specific boons. Just took what came naturally
granite vine
of glory
wind vale
technically 2 zeus bolts and as i had to learn today its now the same for poseidon+zeus duo
sacred idol
You were speed
dire cedar
I need that Dodge chance to survive lol
granite vine
2 bolts? is there cooldown between? 🤔
dire cedar
Plume is good in Styx. Last room is usually fast
wind vale
seems like it
sacred idol
It's a shame Chiron doesn't rapid fire zeus.
granite vine
I always thought Zeus was one per target hit
wind vale
yea that too but if you got enough arrows there is a 2nd for some reason
stable oyster
Zeus has an internal cool down per target
granite vine
fascinating
granite vine
now to ask for bouncy arrows
stable oyster
Yes!
dire cedar
Bouncy arrows like chain shot?
sacred idol
That's a bummer
stable oyster
Like off a wall
wind vale
i did with poseidon zeus duo today - was 2 there so i really think its the same
dire cedar
I think chain shot will bounce off walls
sacred idol
On an unrelated note, does Dual Shot pair with Flurry Shot?
granite vine
yeah! every arrow travels fixed distance and bounces off things
dire cedar
Twin shot does pair with flurry shot
granite vine
yeah it does
dire cedar
I've done it. It's good
sacred idol
Twin is a little bit busted, in that if you do enough damage, it oneshots armor
dire cedar
If you like flurry shot that is
sacred idol
Because two damage instances WILL bypass armorgating
granite vine
i feel like half the time flurry shot resets my playstyle mid run
wind vale
i still prefer twin with explosive
sacred idol
I feel like there is a little bit of imbalance between 'single strong hit' and 'many hits' in this game
Explosive... bleh, that range nerf AND charge time nerf?
Not feeling it
dire cedar
Explosive is good with flurry
granite vine
triple explosive was weird
wind vale
explosive for some reason increases range a bit
runic jewel
yeah I'm feelin explosive a lot lately
granite vine
probably because of aoe?
wind vale
that too but the arrows seem longer as well
runic jewel
I like that its point of explosiion is where you aim
wind vale
and i only dash attack it ofc to mitigate the slow charge a bit
wind vale
cant combine
sacred idol
runic jewel
read that Explosive Furry
wind vale
dont want to combine then
sacred idol
the furies, but they're the furries
granite vine
when I took explosive and triple together it became a spam click run because charging felt so ineffective
granite vine
just three bombs in the face a bunch
wind vale
triple with chain shot maybe?
sacred idol
like
runic jewel
If they made a Prank heat
runic jewel
Where you get 90% of a boon and the other 10% is absurd
granite vine
helix does sound better than spread
sacred idol
then your gameplay would be finding the optimal spot to triple shot one fool
or clap a bunch of enemies just right
granite vine
maybe just one curve?
like, they'd meet at the end of your shot and then diverge again
sacred idol
Oh, hmm. And just fly off after?
Yeah
That'd be simpler
And quite fun to sweetspot
granite vine
so it'd still spread if you don't charge all the way
prime knoll
Something like that seems like a more apt modification to the special.
But it does sound fun in either case
sacred idol
The issue is that triple shot is... well, it's a shotgun that isn't good at being one
because a charged only shotgun is mainly a dead zagreus
prime knoll
Yeah, it's so wide that you can't rely on those side shots to do anything.
granite vine
therefore side shots should bounce!
sacred idol
bounce or converge, yes, anything goes
granite vine
and then the more times they bounce the better chance you have of getting a fish in that room afterward
prime knoll
It steps on the rail a bit, but a 5 shot could be fun. It makes me think of the Krogan shotgun where you have to hold the trigger for a moment before it unloads death.
sacred idol
rofl
prime knoll
I really like flurry shot on Hera aspect for snappier cast procs
B - X - A, B - X - A, etc.
abstract pilot
i found in the past that flurry shot on hera would cause some buggy behavior, like the bloodstones perfectly stacking on each other so that multiple only look like one
is that still happening this patch?
sacred idol
@thorny orioleWhat PVP mode?
thorny oriole
potential. it would be nice for this game to have a pvp aspect, don't you think?
chrome bone
Since the last patch I never had problems with Hera's aspect. Before it, sometimes part of the bloodstones would just disappear
blazing mulch
There will not be pvp and any multi-player mode
bright mulch
Pvp would require enough changes that it'd be better off as it's own game with zag as a playable character :P
I'd buy SSG Smash
sacred idol
smash is the only kind I actually like and even then I prefer bots
PVP Aspect
literally the Aspect of Fite Me IRL
thorny oriole
well, just an idea then, thought i ought to throw that out. after killing hades for like the 20th time it got pretty stale for me tbh
sacred idol
zagreus runs around slapping people irl
bright mulch
Indirect pvp could also work really well, like a built in race mode
thorny oriole
yea, my idea was to combine indirect pvp with head to heads instead of boss encounters
so both clear times and head to heads matter in the end
bright mulch
You could even pull from like Tetris PVP style games and let the player do things on their run to mess up the other guy lol
Spend gold to trigger pact options for the other guy
Instead of tossing a companion for yourself force a miniboss encounter
thorny oriole
there's a lot of potential here as you can see
bright mulch
Etc.
Then you actually could have a PVP aspect lol
It's a God who just gives modifiers to the other guys run, like chaos but only for the other dude
runic crown
On that note, I can see Chat Interaction with Streamers be a thing too
bright mulch
Yeah races seem to be a popular streaming niche
There's even that competitive Mario maker circuit lol
runic crown
Votes for fav gods, enemies, or setting off traps
bright mulch
Streamer mode could be neat and could work in either pvp or pve
wind vortex
Racing would work well I think, I know a lot of other rougelite games have active racing communities
bright mulch
Dang this meme sounds really fun now lol
novel python
Is exploding launcher worth using on Zag spear
novel python
I wanted to do a Zeus attack run
sacred idol
It can make a run on zagreus
novel python
But I got a hammer first
sacred folio
Yes. It turns the spear into a bow with pretty high base damage & no charge time required.
sacred idol
And is basically baked into GY
But it is absolutely a run maker on zag aspect
As important as quick spin on gy
novel python
So special speed from hermes would be a thing I guess
sacred idol
Yeet
mellow quest
take inferno bomb curse
immediately kill a bunch of enemies with aoe
forget to dodge the bombs and take 48
goodbye health it was nice knowing you
mellow quest
i also like when you go into a fountain chamber and Zag comments about how no one's there
but there are shades chillin
guess they're a joke to him
runic crown
Exploding Spear was the easiest (all but final boss) clear for me. I never used a basic attack after that.
novel python
tidal thorn
Explosive Launcher is so nice. I cannot freaking believe GY has it by default.
runic crown
Hey Zag... Where you pointing that big spear of yours huh??? Also you have Varatha pointed at Thanatos.
oblique tusk
can GY aspect pick the explosive launcher hammer?
novel python
As you can see, it's Zagreus aspect too. 👀
runic crown
mellow quest
can we take a moment and appreciate how thematically and mechanically nice Clouded Judgement is
what a name for that boon
wooden spade
I don’t usually like tipsy shot butttttt with Hera??? It’s good
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/677998024437399563/unknown.png Legendary vs Duo?
sacred folio
Duo if the special shot is Poseidon's
I mean this is pretty much a special focused build
sacred folio
Splitting bolt it is then, I guess.
novel python
Got zeus attack, Support Fire and flurry shot
With Pressure points
I can't see my screen anymore.
Flurry stab* w/e
sacred folio
Also in case anyone find it helpful: I just added all the incompatibilities I can find between hammer upgrades & aspects to wiki pages.
tall dove
Which one’s that?
tidal thorn
I like it but if I don't get it at the start of a run I will pass.
sacred folio
It reduces the shield's defensive capability and I don't like that.
tidal thorn
World Smasher Your Bull Rush is replaced with a close hit that deals 70 damage.
tidal thorn
I want to like it more. I feel like Bull Rush should be the upgrade but that would change the weapon way too much. lol
No one would like it.
manic ermine
I really like the playstyle of world smasher but its worse than charged shot in most aspects
less damage and slower animations
mellow quest
i totally forgot i got triple bomb in asphodel
im in styx and just now figured out i can use it thrice
im lining up to be a strong contender for smartest gamer of 2020 it seems
novel python
bright mulch
World Smasher would be so much better if it didn't take away block lol
Also the animation feels really weird, being just this slowed down, short distance bull rush. Would do a lot for usability/coolness factor if it had an animation tuned for it, or honestly even just the normal attack BUT NOW ITS BIG YO
naive tusk
Thicc
rare salmon
Has anyone had success with Hera outside of Dio Cast? I'd like to try it, and it's my darkness weapon right now 🙂
@novel python That looks pretty fun!
oblique tusk
uh, aphrodite cast would be good if they ever fixed the bug of your crystals getting stuck outside of the walls
so you're stuck without your main build for 30 seconds
languid vigil
does anyone know what boons you need to get poseidon's wave pounding
hollow sorrel
And one wrong cast can send crystals into deep lava (and Zeus cast crystals can randomly bounce into deep lava). It's so bad that I gave up on it, and did my 32 heat with the Zagerus bow. At least that bow doesn't cause headaches
trail timber
Clipped the hydra out of bound once, cast got stuck in it too
was interesting waiting for the cast to autorecall while watching the hydra flailing about in the space between spaces
naive tusk
@languid vigil https://hades.gamepedia.com/Poseidon
languid vigil
it's not updated with wave pounding, that's why i'm asking if anyone here knows
unkempt pagoda
probably a boon with knockback, i assume
languid vigil
well yeah but are there any other prerequisites is what i'm wondering
pastel jolt
lucky for you i'm mid-cutscene in ffxiv and these guys are wordy as all hell
lemme look it up for you
you need his attack, dash, cast, special, or call - at least one of those
languid vigil
just one of those? alright thanks for checking
marble ridge
does anyone feel like yanking on Poseidon's goatee
obtuse ravine
mellow quest
im hoping Poseidon gets a serious portrait, whether it's fanart or official
just to see how weird/out of character it would look
marble ridge
total Poseidon moment
tidal thorn
@rare salmon I did Arti cast earlier and outside of losing crystals a few times things went well.
Six Arti casts blew up the last two bosses.
No Hermes Leg makes me sad tho. And you're not getting it every time.
prime knoll
Every time I get Hermes' legendary, for the rest of my play session I just wish casts always worked like that.
turbid needle
I wish the natural recall timer started immediately.
prime knoll
Particularly with Hera.
turbid needle
Or at least did any time it lands on a non-standable/safe surface.
prime knoll
Yeah, or the recall timer were shorter.
turbid needle
Land in lava? Timer starts. Land over a gap that can be dashed across? Timer starts. Land off the side of anywhere except Asphodel? Timer starts.
prime knoll
between that and totally losing them in the outskirts of the map it really brings things to a halt (especially and basically just Asphodel and the top right corner of the final boss)
orchid parcel
The bow is my least favorite weapon
turbid needle
If they can fix Piercing Barrage it has a chance.
tidal thorn
OMG I kinda sabatoged my run too because bounce shot marks the LAST target, not the first.
turbid needle
Yeeaaahhhh.
tidal thorn
So my shots are going off to who knows where lol
And the bow is alright. I like all three forms.
dense locust
Does anyone have the problem with poseidons call where you can't steer it whatsoever? Sometimes it'll just shoot me in whatever direction I was facing until it expires
tidal thorn
Your turn radius is restricted. You can do tight circles but you can't turn on a dime like normal.
dense locust
@tidal thorn The bounce shot can be nice though because your special pierces all targets before hitting the marked one,
No I mean I can't move at all
It only happens like 1/4 of the time
I play on a controller
mild crag
I'm working on a boons video to explain stuff like rarity multipliers, boon tiers, duplicate multipliers and diminishng returns from levels - any suggestions on other things I could explain?
tidal thorn
I do too. Not sure then, doesn't sound like it's working like it should.
prime knoll
bowandrail4life
dense locust
Yeah I submitted a bug report but couldn't provide any helpful info
orchid parcel
Can you put in a link when you do your video, I'd like to see that
mild crag
Of course
tidal thorn
@mild crag You including how Yarn works too?
dense locust
What do you mean by rarity multipliers?
mild crag
GUESS YOU'LL HAVE TO WATCH THE VIDEO AND FIND OUT @dense locust
tidal thorn
lol
mild crag
jk i mean how rarity affects the values
mild crag
@tidal thorn also no i didn't have that in
i'll have to make sure I understand how it works first lol
dense locust
A chart showing the level ups of all of the boons at all of the raritys would be immensely helpful
mild crag
I'll try to auto-generate that perhaps
dense locust
Not saying it should be a part of the vid, but I was just thinking it'd be helpful for when you decide to go for a pom or not
or the lady in biome 2 that'll upgrade your boons or level em up
mild crag
yuh
I'm gonna include the "standard" multipliers but not all the different ones that boons have
dense locust
Just for my own knowledge, does the percent damage increase work by adding a increase based on the base damage and disregards other boons that do the same and then adds up for your total damage?
bright mulch
Woo, tight gy run with only 18 health left
mild crag
they all affect your base damage yeah
dense locust
and then all add separately
dense locust
okay so crit is based on the total output
turbid needle
So how does Clean Kill work?
mild crag
it's additive still from the base crit value
turbid needle
Is it +230% damage for a crit?
mild crag
yes
turbid needle
Cool, thanks.
dense locust
Ooo so heart rend adds 50% damage based on the sum of your normal damage after being multiplied by crit?
turbid needle
Heart Rend turns crits into 4.5x damage multipliers on Weak enemies.
this
dense locust
And if you hit them in the bacl?
turbid needle
That's how you get 3k+ crits.
mild crag
then it's a 50% damage bonus to your base damage
dense locust
back
mild crag
since backstab is additive
mild crag
priv status is additive too
turbid needle
But it's also universal, so it increases a lot of stuff that's hard to increase otherwise, like Hangover.
dense locust
It'd be nice of they noted if it was an additive or a multiplicative bonus, but im guessing the majority of the player base doesnt really care
mild crag
thank for suggestion on yarn btw since it made me look up how it decides rarity
dense locust
@turbid needle What does?
tidal thorn
np, because I was wondering that the other day lol
turbid needle
Privileged Status.
dense locust
Ahh wow thats good to know
prime knoll
It'd be hopefully pretty straightforward to list the boon and maybe in parenthesis show what the new value would be- like Heart Rend showing:
(300% -> 450% vs weak foes)
dense locust
although I always try and get privileged status on everything
Yeah that's a good suggestion
Or maybe have an option to hold down alt to see more detials
details
prime knoll
I generally prefer a contextual depiction like that. Yeah, a details option.
dense locust
Some people just don't care and get annoyed by a busy explanation
prime knoll
I think that could help sell otherwise esoteric boons to the average player, too.
dense locust
Does Yarn of Ariadne only affect the next possibly boon you see, or the next boon you pick up
prime knoll
You'll be better by thiiiis much
turbid needle
It expires when you pick a boon up specifically, so I would guess the boon you pick up.
But I don't actually know the mechanics.
dense locust
The hardest one for me to conceptualize is the .35% gain to your god gauge from crits
prime knoll
right?
.35% of what
what is it by default? and as mentioned above, is that additive or...?
dense locust
I would assume it adds .35% of your total damage from a crit
but i dont even know the units of the god gauge
turbid needle
There's 100 points to a full gauge.
prime knoll
Yeah, I think I've only seen that on once.
dense locust
so if you crit for 3k
turbid needle
Most have 4 sections, Artemis has 5, and Athena has 6.
dense locust
do you insta fill the gauge?
but its 100 points for all calls?
.35 * 3000 is 1050
oh wait
its percent
prime knoll
unless it is based on instances of damage and not numerical damage dealt
dense locust
so 10.5 points on a 3k crit?
either way, it's probably the most vague boon
Which god even gives that thing, artemis?
dense locust
I would really like for them to implement a practice arena where you can choose whatever you want to test the numbers. The community would build an accurate and comprehensive wiki
dense locust
There's the default chance, increases from the mirror, increases from biome to biome, what else?
dense locust
oh yeah
mild crag
mini boss chances don't even seem to be consistent with each other
dense locust
Im not sure these numbers are meant to be calculated
mild crag
but for those who wondered
"does increasing rare chance hurt my chance at an epic/legendary"
no it doesnt
dense locust
Is there a way of knowing the chance that the shop will have a boon for me and not just healing and a heart?
and darkness....
dense locust
Yeah, but that's fine with me
You gotta make that choice to go for a free heart, or a shop that could contain a heart, healing and a boon right before the boss
prime knoll
Dude, I want to strangle Charon when I get a snack, some darkness, and a heart.
dense locust
yes
I always destroy all of his pottery
when that happens
I've got 90% gold increase boon from chaos
I've got 900 on the bag
full health
primal mica
I always hit him. His pissed off growling is reward enough.
prime knoll
Also, I was thinking about picking a god's keepsakes and how it doesn't increase the rate that you see that god's boons, just gives a chance that the next one you see will be rarer. It may generally increase the likelihood of seeing it next, but despite it saying "the next boon you see," I'm 95% sure I've had attempts where that was definitely not the next god boon I saw. They should totally be climbing over the other gods to give you boons during that run given the basic nature they all have as selfish schmoozers.
turbid needle
It forces a single spawn, guaranteed.
prime knoll
I also saw a solid suggestion in the feedback channel for using nectar to boost a god's boon rate for the run.
It feels bad when you get that boon and then never see that god again.
green sable
yeh thats dio 😦
dense locust
Yeah the gods keepsakes force the next god's boon you see (except hermes) to of that god
to be of
The hammer and hermes boons can still appear before it
prime knoll
He's my homeboy. I have good luck with him. I've been trying to do a Zeus run for two days, and I am just not seeing any of his more interesting boons- often just getting his attack boon for my rail, then he's a distant memory as travel on to Asphodel and Elysium.
knock on wood
turbid needle
Well, sometimes the seed you have wouldn't have spawned Dionysus or Artemis or Zeus in the first place.
dense locust
@mild crag Oh one thing I'd really like to know more about is how the boons you currently have affect the likelihood that a boon from a different god will appear. Once I have 2-3 gods boons, I will almost never see any other god's boons the rest of the run
You can change the first boon in the seed with the keepsake though, can't you?
turbid needle
Doesn't actually affect the seed.
dense locust
Oh wait maybe that had nothing to do with what you said
If the first room spawns a zeus boon, and then you give up, change keepsakes to demeter, won't that first boon then be demeter?
turbid needle
I've done that, restarted a run to try to make it mesh with the weapon I wanted to use, and then it's just Poseidon all the way down.
It will, but the run will still be more geared towards Zeus (though Demeter synergizes and has a Duo with Zeus, so there's a decent chance she would have spawned normally).
prime knoll
^ Guess I'm dashing to victory!
dense locust
Okay I get what you're saying. Yeah, the overall seed remains the same, but the keepsake does still work
turbid needle
There may or may not be some truth to the idea that getting a boon affects the seed the rest of the way, but I've had the case where I force a certain Olympian spawn, and then don't see them again the rest of the run.
dense locust
I've tested this a little bit
The seed remains ultimately unchanged even if you change keepsakes
@prime knoll I just dashed to victory
turbid needle
At least it's not a pure Poseidon/Dio spread in Styx during an AAAA run.
I think I've quit winning runs over that.
dense locust
I was 99% sure I wouldnt be able to kill the final, but I had 5 athena dashes
prime knoll
Tidal Dash + Greatest Reflex 
dense locust
AAAA?
south robin
How valuable are centaur hearts? I've just gotten to hades for the first time
turbid needle
Athena, Ares, Artemis, Aphrodite.
dense locust
I take them over gold almost every time
turbid needle
All of them have a Duo with every other god in the quartet.
turbid needle
Centaur Hearts are valuable, but generally less so than boons or Poms.
I usually try to shoot for about 200 HP by the time I hit Styx.
Health from Darkness drops has been awesome.
dense locust
Ill take a heart over a pom unless I've got boons that benefit a lot by leveling up
like any cast boon
prime knoll
I got Dio's nectar/health boon second on a run earlier. With the contractor upgrade that levels a boon whenever you get nectar, I had some high level boons and ~430 HP
dense locust
I like building up defensively though
Yeah I was just gonna say I did the same thing and got over 500 hp with tons of dodge and damage resistance
turbid needle
Yeah, getting Premium Vintage, Exclusive Access, or Sweet Nectar in Tartarus are good ways to get very easy runs.
prime knoll
Oh, and three chaos boons that gave health
dense locust
Hades did maybe half of my first life
5 athena dashes though and if you play carefully, he can hardly hit you (if you're ranged)
prime knoll
I love using athena dash to deflect kill the witches without attacking them myself
dense locust
yeah
and you can kill them while getting a better position
launching skulls back is great too
prime knoll
lol, yeah
dense locust
or spears for the boss before
Athena is my favorite dash
It's crazy how fun the core gameplay is. I started hell a couple days ago and nothing feels at all stale
prime knoll
Am I the only one who thinks Asterius' charge is wayyyy too agile? He basically turns on a dime at full speed. I want the battle to be hard, but it's like he has magnetic horns.
dense locust
I think if you have deflect up when he hits, it does no damage
prime knoll
Yeah, but that's if
dense locust
but getting an extra dash or 2 or 3 is the safer bet
You could dash straight into him if you have athena (i think...)
prime knoll
Yeah, you can proc the deflect on that, but it's kind of hard since your dash also has its own untargetable period (afaik)
dense locust
That's another good topic for @mild crag vid
dense locust
dash iframes
does anyone know how guan yu's spin attack calculates how much life it recovers?
Quick spin vs Massive spin is what Im trying to decide
prime knoll
quick spin for sure
sacred folio
I think it's on the wiki
dense locust
Thats what I was thinking. Last time I did massive spin, I don't think the life gain increased
but the damage is pretty significant on that spin attack
prime knoll
I think it's 2 hp per target? The quick spin's added safety to the move still outweighs the potential damage increase since you're likely to get smacked while charged the spin
dense locust
it says 1 hp per hit
on the wiki
I had a run where I got massive spin and just wrecked everything until hades, and I just couldnt land spins on him and ended up dying
prime knoll
iirc you can mitigate not having quick spin by getting Hermes' attack speed boost.
dense locust
so higher attack speed affects charge speed?
turbid needle
No, but it starts charging sooner.
prime knoll
Oh, it doesn't work like Bull Rush? I'm fairly certain it speeds up both, unless the delay before charging just makes that much difference
dense locust
man heart rend is good
turbid needle
Extremely.
turbid needle
Not really.
turbid needle
Pretty sure Wave Pounding is still additive.
turbid needle
The same with Clean Kill, it doesn't multiply final crit damage by 1.22x, it sets the modifier to +222%.
It should be, I agree.
dense locust
For guan yu special and support fire, does it fire an arrow for every successful hit by the blade or is it only once per blade launch?
turbid needle
For Rare, at least.
Sorry, I'm using exact damage values from the boons that I remember.
mild crag
i think it's once per launch but im not sure
i remember getting it and being underwhelmed in some fashion
prime knoll
yeah, it's once per 'action'
dense locust
Eh, even if its per hit, it's still not amazing
I know that for the bow, it's once per use of special
but then things like that zeus boon that does a lightning bolt per special hits for every arrow
prime knoll
support fire is good with the rail and not much else. The spear isn't bad with it, I suppose- if you're mostly attacking and not spinning.
rancid shore
oh i had a brain fart bc the wiki says multiplier
you're right it should be +215% with clean kill
prime knoll
I think the difference between Zeus' lightning bolts and Support Fire is that SF says that you fire an arrow each time you attack/cast/special, which is per use of that action, while Zeus' is "Your Special causes a lightning bolt to strike nearby foes. (each foe hit)"
sacred folio
It's additive to the crit bonus damage multiplier. Technically speaking it's correct
rancid shore
Math is confusing
green sable
i hate maf
turbid needle
I quit becoming an astrophysicist over my hatred of math.
I really like astronomy, too.
rancid shore
do you also like astrology?
turbid needle
...No.
mild crag
I quit computer systems engineering and focused solely on software instead over my hatred of all of the math that was in the electronics section of computer systems
opal bay
So In game calculator when?
mild crag
uh im really confused right now
unless im reading this wrong
you have a worse chance to get legendaries from minibosses than normal rooms
sacred idol
Additive Clean Kill? So it's actually crap?
mild crag
yes Duos count as legendaries for the purpose of rarity calculation
turbid needle
Miniboss rooms boost the h*ck out of scaling boon rarity, but they nuke Duo/Legendary spawn rates.
mild crag
yes
opal bay
We have been played like a damn fiddle
mild crag
allow me to confirm your experiences
turbid needle
Burn it to the ground, start from scratch.
don't actually do that
@opal bay MGS5, right?
opal bay
Yes
mild crag
nah mirror rarity chances dont decrease your chances of higher rarities
ill explain in my video but basically
check legendary? yes/no > check epic? yes/no > check rare? yes/no > make it common
mild crag
you're more than three times less likely to get a leg/duo from a miniboss than a normal room
turbid needle
Any word on Trial spawn rates?
mild crag
all "boosted rarity" boons are the same
sacred folio
Because some stuff in this game are hardcoded, not calculated via formula.
turbid needle
. . .