better safe than sorry
#h1-builds-and-combat
humble swallow
turbid needle
Grats!
lament lava
basically just spammed the hazard bomb while dashing around like a madman
also
wanna know the way this game treats being still unfinished
whenever you get to the end of a run
there's a little randomised story
of what zagreus did after escaping
and then died in some stupid way
night pasture
it sure does!
slender mantle
my friend took 2 movespeed debuffs from chaos in a row.
https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialYummySangBrokeBack
night pasture
I took cursed blade, it was my last prophecy pick
I think I can save the run
it's only 6 heat
night pasture
at the risk of sounding stupid, did you pick up the reward?
oak owl
already did
night pasture
nemesis blade with aphrodite on attack, zeus on cast with jolted, and poseidon on dash with rupture, which means I'm basically triggering double damage if I do anything
I'm glad this was my cursed blade run
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/673008110545272833/unknown.png The biggest oof
bright mulch
Lol
oak owl
F
naive tusk
No more chambers for gold?
sacred idol
That was the last
turbid needle
feelsbad
naive tusk
Feels bad
sacred idol
The worst part is, I probably missed some random gold jar somewhere.
green sable
i do that alot.
naive tusk
The 🏺 s
green sable
i need a build thats a garenteed to get things done i don't care which weapon anymore
stray frigate
@green sable Chaos shield with Aprho Dio
green sable
ive been watching this one guy
hes a speed runner
you mean the status stuff?that takes stuff forever
to win
naive tusk
You could try rail + Dionysus attack boon
And complement with boons that boost attack
stray frigate
and dash attack
naive tusk
So you just attack from afar and let hangover do the rest
green sable
..which are?
oak owl
easy
stray frigate
and max poison
night pasture
oak owl
hestia gun
green sable
ok so Dio
stray frigate
Aphro attack Dio special and their duo
green sable
thats a sword one
stray frigate
all other boons are optional
green sable
So just use them 2 spefically?
green sable
which weapon?
green sable
okie
green sable
So aphie main and dio throw?
naive tusk
Practice blocking too to avoid losing too much hp
stray frigate
u charge ur bull rush through enemy
green sable
..that requires you to stay still.
stray frigate
granting Weak status
night pasture
the shield bullrush is like it's own dash, you're invincle while doing it, and if you aim it right, you're invincible while charging it up
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/673010037446148109/unknown.png well, this was painful
green sable
now those booze grenades are nice
stray frigate
and repeat untill all dead
green sable
i might do a cast build around those grenades.
sacred idol
implying I had anything resembling a good build 
night pasture
damn
green sable
i can't read that lol
sacred idol
I was just knocking off fated and hoping
oblique tusk
i can't read cyka
night pasture
that's really impressive
stray frigate
u dont need to read
night pasture
just look at the heat numbers
green sable
i go by what ive seen personally work
i talk to my fellow awesome people here so get better ideas
night pasture
was it a specific build? I notice your blade and spear are no higher than 4 heat
stray frigate
my spear is much higher for now
night pasture
apologies cheri, I meant gxnm
night pasture
hah
all I'm going to do is accept that the shield is the easiest for high heat runs
green sable
its ok hun i am well aware im doing awful lol
sacred idol
What's the easiest low heat combo to farm blood?
green sable
ive tried GY and can't work a good boon build
night pasture
you can't really farm blood because you need to keep increasing the heat
stray frigate
@green sable just take Artemis special
bright mulch
Honestly for Dio I don't even care about the tick damage
stray frigate
@night pasture he can go for money and buy it Charon
bright mulch
I just like that it's an easy status buff that stays around a lot
green sable
i did that.....it was ok while it was critting other wise it was awful.
bright mulch
For those sweet dual status damage bonus procs
night pasture
ah, @stray frigate is right, if you skip all shops and make it to styx, you can buy it, unless he happens to have a diamond
stray frigate
@green sable Artemis special, charged Special, Faster Special
sacred idol
Also, re: the Mirror, is it better to have more Olympian Favor or less God's Pride
sacred idol
Also, this is the only time I ever had NEARLY 1500 obols, and that turned out, well
You saw
stray frigate
well it works for me
i just spammed special for days
from distance
GY have great dmg
green sable
okie can i actually win with it tho
green sable
okie
sacred idol
lmao, I can barely do 1 heat
stray frigate
i cant say i'm a good player
i just try to do easy reliable builds good for dumb guys like me
sacred idol
I'm just stubborn and refuse to use the Aspect of Cheese
stray frigate
press 1 button and win
green sable
gouda idea ❤️
turbid needle
If I could ever get Splitting Bolt to drop for the Rail again I think I could do 32 Heat.
sacred idol
lmao, I can't do those builds
night pasture
I actually consistently completely forget to use my summon because it's such a new mechanic
turbid needle
But the last ten attempts I've had haven't given me a thing.
sacred idol
Because when I'm bored, I lose focus
And just sit there dying from being too braindead to move
stray frigate
i wish Hestia rail has better way to use her passive
turbid needle
32 Heat is anything but boring.
bright mulch
I like pushing buttons, so I too can't run stuff that involves like the bull rush and blocking because I also get too bored lol
stray frigate
well losing is boring
night pasture
that's why I always pick the weapon with the darkness buff, even though I've long since stopped needing darkness
trying to work around that keeps in new
sacred idol
I mean, bullrushing by itself isn't that dull, but basically one button to win sucks
bright mulch
My only advice I can give is that I've been able to salvage a lot of crap runs with double status damage bonus
sacred idol
also, I don't have enough aspects ranked to use those
night pasture
that one is key, I agree, @bright mulch
bright mulch
So I always try to mix it up
night pasture
but you can get there a lot of ways
bright mulch
Yeah
Playing a lot and knowing the easy combos is another
Also just knowing which boons you don't jive with
night pasture
I also think learning the boss' attacks is so huge
bright mulch
I only started playing again recently and I lvoe the new prohecy thing that wasn't there when I last played
sacred idol
I keep getting crappy RNG with almost no boons or boons that keep trading out for each other though
I think Poseidon straight up needs a rework :c
night pasture
yeah, that'll happen
bright mulch
because it marks things you haven't tried yet and you can be like
Alright lets see how this works
Yeah lol I feel like I'm only getting poseidon nowadays for rupture lol
sacred idol
The whole "you need an extra boon to do anything to bosses" thing sucks.
night pasture
poseidon's call isn't bad
sacred idol
I mean, most of his normal boons are.
night pasture
invincibility on demand is a big plus in my book
bright mulch
I'd rather just go Athena or ares for that
livid comet
GY poke is very very good. More even than the spin attack, it was the special I took notice of first @stray frigate
sacred idol
tfw I got poseidon the very next room
night pasture
I wouldn't say it's better than theirs but sometimes beggars can't be choosers
sacred idol
At least it's a tartarus Ocean's Bounty epic
stray frigate
@livid comet spin attack is too slow to rely on
livid comet
not really
night pasture
on bosses it is
sacred idol
Twice
stray frigate
if i dont have fast spin
night pasture
be careful, slurp everything else like a blood bag
stray frigate
it can be best way to kill urself
livid comet
pretty much the only reason you should be using spin attack
is for blocking projectiles
or regaining hp
bright mulch
Yeah Poseidon dash and rupture is what I pick up most from him
stray frigate
for healing
turbid needle
Guan Yu?
stray frigate
y
livid comet
yes
turbid needle
Actually, you wanna spin2win all day.
bright mulch
GY spin I think can be good but sometimes you just gotta know to let it rip early or give up on it
livid comet
with GY, I use dash attack and special a lot in standard combat
night pasture
IF you get both hammer spin bonuses
green sable
i got shady ❤️
stray frigate
i cant say how many times i tried to heal myself with it in Elisium and all i had - lost even more HP
livid comet
which I consistently get with GY runs
stray frigate
grats
bright mulch
You basically just really need to know enemy patterns and have good macro to use it without the spin upgrades
livid comet
grats
stray frigate
porblem is
u have to be close
and elisium guys are not enemies u want to be close
night pasture
yeah
bright mulch
Yeah due to slowness of regular combo I find with GY chaining special and dash attack is much more productive for your general offense when you don't need to heal
night pasture
you can slurp up a lot of health if you can tell when to charge and shoot, though
stray frigate
like spearman who can stab you from other room
like shield guys who just block most ur damage
night pasture
I know they nerfed them but I still find the shield dudes the worst
bright mulch
Yeah, some rooms you just have to acknowledge you can't heal off it
stray frigate
like swordman who can suddenly dash in ur face and deal 18-30 damage
and their attacks goes through barriers
very dangerous plays
livid comet
and ocassionally hide behind walls and spin
stray frigate
and heal with it as long as u need
sacred idol
Is 32 heat 'all of them'?
livid comet
I thought it was 20 heat where you stop getting rewards
stray frigate
32 for statue
bright mulch
Neat
livid comet
statue?
stray frigate
statue
rose geode
just had a crazy set of boons. Demeter + Pose duo, Artemis double cast, Artemis legendary for +3 cast, Pose Legendary, Pose +15% damage on boss, and Demeter DoT on chill
just, everything melted
bright mulch
noice
native ether
ARGH. I should NOT be able to exit a room while a trove trial is happening; it's happened to me a few times in styx rooms: I do the trove trial to get my health back up to max (sorely needed at this point) and just as I'm about to kill the last couple of enemies, I'm too near the door, E is right next to movement keys E,S and D on the keyboard and so sooooo easily pressed, and suddenly I've disappeared out of the room with less health than I had, less obol from killing them, and no way back. Can't see why exiting rooms isn't disabled til the end of a trove trial. argh.
Its designed this way so you can bail a trove trial if its causing you more harm than good.
Particularly in the case of things that are not health
cause the alternative is being locked, having it go awry, and losing things like death defiances or even dying
one player side solution to this is rebinding the interact key. If you're pressing it a lot in combat unintentionally, that will probably fix this kind of issue
green sable
well that arti build with the GY was great
the crits was nice
it really was
i still didn't win
sigh
stray frigate
cus?
green sable
thats you...this is me.
stray frigate
on 12-13 heat with extreme
green sable
😦
stray frigate
Theseus in 2nd phase died after i used my Q 3 times
green sable
sigh
stray frigate
keep fightin
green sable
what else can i try
stray frigate
Shield with doom?
stray frigate
if u dont have chaos
u still can use duo with Aphro and Ares
proc weak with attack and add doom with special
green sable
im using ares right now
stray frigate
it will deal more dmg
green sable
i forgot how good doom was
stray frigate
or u may try to make HB
north hedge
How often will a god not offer their Duo boon?
I had Artemis Aids and Crystal Beam since early Asphodel and didn't get it once. That said, even without it, Dual Shot+Fully Loaded+Flurry Cast meant Hades was melting regardless, if only it inflincted Chill as well.
night pasture
attack with doom + dash with deflect = dance all night
night pasture
Iyup but depends on the weapon
shield you can bull rush through everyone in the room
stray frigate
@night pasture and bounce with special too
@north hedge rng
u can have duo in 7th room
and can have in 60
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/673026553168396306/unknown.png This was fun.
night pasture
I will agree to disagree but I think dom on attack with the shield is better than doom on the special with the shield
aw man, isn't demeter's legendary the best?
sacred idol
I was riding the edge of defeat for a while, lost my last death defiance to Theseus... but then put on Patroclus' spearpoint, got two whole death defiances from Styx shops, and turned this around
Hell yeah.
night pasture
*HADES yeah
sacred idol
It went from "I'm going to lose" to "I'm going to freeze Hades to death" inside of five minutes or so
The laser cast is... weird
It removes boiling blood, which sucks.
But it does a ton of DPS and hyper stacks chill, which rocks
night pasture
her "if all enemies have chill they take damage" is also hella wicked against bosses
because they are, uh
the only enemy, most of the time
sacred idol
Yeah, that too.
night pasture
sorry I don't know the icons that well, I can't tell if that's something you had loaded
sacred idol
So Hades basically just died of hypothermia, and awkward stacks of poisoning
It was just weird because I had quick spin but Dio attack.
night pasture
couldn't take the lack of heat?
sacred idol
LMAO
but yeah, I passed up flurry attack, should've gone with that but Dio dropped later
green sable
red shield is ❤️
sacred idol
Admittedly, quick spin is really easy mob status. Wish it had been reversed, chill on that and poison or weak or doom on special.
bright mulch
I always forget when I have the demeter legendary lol
It procs on the boss and I'm like wait what
Oh yeah that's right
Super useful though
potent wedge
so i just took quality upgrades to current boons from euridicy
night pasture
I sincerely thought it was a glitch once I finished the final boss
potent wedge
and hermes drop time got worse?
bright mulch
Also for rare crop
Does the lower rarity version not upgrade all the degraded stuff?
last nacelle
It degrades less stuff.
bright mulch
Once I had a common rare crop degrade Jolt attack and poison dash but only poison dash was upgrading
night pasture
when you say "quality," do you mean levels, or rarity?
bright mulch
Rarity
last nacelle
hmmm
bright mulch
Dio Dash became Heroic as it should but Zeus Attack stayed common the whole run
night pasture
if you upgrade in rarity to a non levelled trait it may be worse
I think this is two different issues
green sable
whoopsie
bright mulch
It was Zeus Attack so it was defintely leveled and leveled up just fine
potent wedge
so i had lvl 1 quick reload, which said 5s to drop, it got upgrades to legendary, and now it's 6.25s to drop, isn't that worse?
night pasture
it definitely is
stray frigate
ahem
sacred idol
Is the Shield of Chaos good at lower blood counts?
stray frigate
u CANT be upgraded to legendary
Common<Rare<Epic<Heroic
Legendary is not rarity
it's not usual skill
stray frigate
looks like bug i think
sacred idol
@bright mulch If it doesn't upgrade rarity after downgrading, there's a bug... all I can think of. I've never seen Rare Crop fail, though, got it three times or so so far
bright mulch
Ah good to know, thought I was going nuts lol
potent wedge
i bug reported it, but as i'm a bit tipsey was worried i was misinterpreting
fringe blade
I'm having trouble unlocking companions
bright mulch
Sucks, was a while ago so I didn't report it
sacred idol
Anyway, if I dunk a small amount of blood into the chaos shield and get it to 3 or so, is it good enough to start farming more blood off
fringe blade
Skelly is at 6 stars and hes not giving me the quest
potent wedge
its rng i believe for skelly
also @sacred idol all the shields are fantastic
and you'll get enough blood to level them all up eventually
stray frigate
lost 2 dd for exhydra
stray frigate
Artemis special is unreacheble
bright mulch
I like Zeus Shield a bit better but chaos is funny to watch shield ping pong
sacred idol
Is a higher chance of Rare better than a lower chance of Epic and more commons?
sacred idol
@stray frigate you're the chaos shield addict, how many bloods does it take to make it worthwhile? Or is it always better than zag shield without the blood?
sacred idol
I can't - if I unlock it now, then it's 1 blood lmao
stray frigate
and had enough blood
sacred idol
my Hestia is rank 4, my zag spear is maxed
everything else is 0
Trying to get the Infernal Arms fate at 0 heat
stray frigate
well i have almost everything maxed
sacred idol
ah yeah, lmao. Master of Arms is 10 blood, so I want it.
stray frigate
all swords all rails
sacred idol
which means clearing with Sword and Shield at 0 heat
green sable
i got my first legendary boon from hermes 🙂
stray frigate
all spears
sacred idol
Legendary boons dropping is so much fun
Demeter's literally saved my last run, it's so good
stray frigate
i need Zag shield and Zeus shield is too be maxed
green sable
this one has my gems to return auto 🙂
sacred idol
oh yeah, that can be silly good on a cast build, right
Hmm
Unranked Zagreus sword and shield good enough for 0 heat clears?
Just to get the blood without spending any
stray frigate
i do not like sword
sacred idol
rip
stray frigate
and for shield
sacred idol
dislikes sword, maxed swords
stray frigate
i used to play only with dash attack spam
sacred idol
rofl
bright mulch
I love sword the most but it also makes me reckless lol
stray frigate
and athena attack
bright mulch
I go too ham and don't play as lame as the other weapons and I take stupid damage
stray frigate
take 2 hammer upgrade for attack and dash attack
green sable
ive gotten more poms this run than anytime else omg
stray frigate
and JUST SPAM IT
bright mulch
I've also got the fastest clears with it though
mint vortex
If I take Scintillating Feast, can I still get Ice Wine?
bright mulch
I love that feel
I want the enemy to taste my steel
I love that the special is no longer a t pose either, one of my favorite changes I saw when I jumped back in for the long winter
Now I really feel like I'm stlying on my enemies
turbid needle
I wish Swift Flourish sped up the beginning again.
bright mulch
How dare you barry would never use a gun
stray frigate
i do not like dread flight anyway
grand gust
anywhere to see the conditions for the duo boons?
stray frigate
grand gust
<3
oak owl
what does the clock mean on hades heart?
unkempt pagoda
means it's not implemented yet
unkempt pagoda
max his nectars first
stray frigate
and keep meeting him
oak owl
I have and it dosent let me do anymore
ocean arch
@mint vortex you can have both, yes: if duo boons have overlapping requirements they're not mutually exclusive
mint vortex
Already figured it out, but thanks!
ocean arch
Yeah didn't see anybody respond to you but didn't pay much attention to time posted lol
Either way, good to know you know 
@oak owl have you talked to Bouldy and given him a nectar yet? (Yes, Bouldy, not Sisyphus)
oak owl
how much do you give bouldy?
ocean arch
Should only require one nectar given before the event in the house triggers when Meg and Hades are both there
ocean arch
Then maybe do a couple runs to refresh the house
ocean arch
Did you go most of the run without a special boon or did you pick up the Aphrodite special early?
stray frigate
i was without Special all 3 lvls
and took it in styx just to have ANY
at least Aphro had good scales
ocean arch
That's just the nature of RNG and roguelike games though
stray frigate
yes(
last run was much better https://prnt.sc/qv9dqn
"I dont know what is worse - Dying repetitively or Hypnos" - Tomatos
last nacelle
Just don't get hit.
stray frigate
...and die in the end
north hedge
For Duo Boons both gods need to be at boon rank 3 right
long sierra
boon rank 3?
long sierra
i think you have to have specific boons
stray frigate
and it can be as any basic boon
long sierra
or at least 1 specific and 1 of any
smoky oasis
do you guys have a spread sheet of all the boons?
I wanna check first before making mine
long sierra
yeah the wiki is good
theres something called boon progression? where you have to have certain boons to get certain further advanced boons from gods
be their "disciple"
stray frigate
u mean tier?
basic boon is tier 1
attack special call dash and call
for example Ares
long sierra
Why can't i post screenshots in here
stray frigate
only links
Dash and Call works with Bladerifts
if u have any of them
u can have tier 2 boon
which improving ur rifts
long sierra
unfortunate. Well, I just had a crazy run with poseidon stygius. Trueshot, Greater Recall, DualCast, and Exit wounds are insane for a crazy cast build
latent marsh
Finally got my first win haha, took 35 attempts and ended up fairly lucky with a triple rocket rail build that was super strong
stray frigate
not bad not bad
long sierra
I have to say as much as I love artemis...all my winning builds use her boons. I haven't won without her boons I don't think yet. Crit of some form is just too dang good, and exit wounds plus recall is so good on poseidon stygius and hera bow.
yeah not like an insane time or anything, but on no heat and first win with the sword. 5100 is a lot of darkness though XD
stray frigate
there is lot of good builds without artemis
long sierra
im sure. just haven't gotten one that i like i guess. Whats your favorite been?
poseidons cast on hera bow is really good
also poseidon special on shield with his legendary
bright mulch
Arty is great, but if you wanna branch out going for double status effects is a great way to replace that sweet, sweet, crit damage
bright mulch
Earlier today had a great run with Dio Rail Attack and Aphro Special yeah
long sierra
gotcha
stray frigate
Posion weak is better
long sierra
i don't have the privileged status unlocked yet tho
stray frigate
cus they have great duo for that
long sierra
still saving them keys
bright mulch
Bombs go up, apply poison, had triple bomb, first bomb applies weak, next 2 bombs get boosted
Then everything dies
stray frigate
@long sierra do u have fated list
bright mulch
feels good man
bright mulch
It was real cash money let me tell you
stray frigate
@long sierra If u give for Chaos 2nd and 3rd nectar he will give u 2 prophecies with 20 keys reward for each
long sierra
oh wow. ok. So yeah beyond gifting 1 nectar to everyone i have no idea who to give nectar to
stray frigate
1st is Dio special
2nd is Aphro Attack
3rd is Athens Dash
4th is Aphro/Dio duo(More poison stacks for weaked)
5th is Athena call
long sierra
(to close out though i still think arty is probably one of the stronger builds for early escapes)
ocean arch
Dusa, Sisyphus, Thanatos, Megaera and Skelly are good targets @long sierra
long sierra
what wep?
stray frigate
Chaos shield
long sierra
interesting. I shall commence the gifting
stray frigate
there is a lot of intresting characters to be gifted
bright mulch
Oh yeah, when you're learning arty is like the easiest I feel, very straightforward
ocean arch
Also 
bright mulch
Stack crit, things die
latent marsh
Yeah it does, even with a pretty strong build I finly felt like I was starting to understand final boss attack patterns
latent marsh
I wasn't just dashing around praying for the best 😂
ocean arch
From what I've been told Poseidon Sword with Art is the current king of the speedrun
long sierra
yeah i've had strong builds and thought I could burst down the big guy but nope, ended up wasting 2 defiances because i was being reckless
latent marsh
I definitely need to get better at using melee builds, as of now most of my success is with ranged stuff
ocean arch
I lost a 16 heat run yesterday to Acorn not protecting you from Vase damage on the last boss 
long sierra
@ocean arch i was doing about 1.5k dps...get all 3 out (crit) for 907, special for 108, exit wound for 164 each
ocean arch
If it wasn't for that would've been a 16 minute run
long sierra
@latent marsh yeah, I think using bow first then running sword as a ranged build with cast is a good way to transition
lmao RIP
this was my fastest run though. I was clearing wide open rooms in seconds. Thanatos got 0 kills. the like
ocean arch
@long sierra 7 cast ammo, 1.1k main hit cast crits, 600 secondary hit crits. Took me all of 20 seconds to burn to phase 2 part 2
long sierra
holy buckets
yeah you got fully loaded? I had flurry cast too. Can those crit just the same?
so maybe a little higher dps for me. but that sounds SO fun
ocean arch
Yeah, the secondary shot is just a weaker copy
long sierra
cool cool
smoky oasis
artermis just feels so good to play
bright mulch
For melee good tip is don't skimp on those hearts
ocean arch
Epic flurry cast as well
ocean arch
Err, 6 fated authority deep with everything else maxed out so idk what the numbers are
green sable
omg
long sierra
lol
smoky oasis
cast builds are the most fun I've played, sadly they are not that reliable
ocean arch
Also should probably avoid the name drop outside of #h1-story-discussion
Patch notes refer to final boss, for example
long sierra
yeah the mod called us on that yesterday
yeah i haven't unlocked all the mirror. Finally got all the contractor improvements tho so the extra health from darkness, key rerolls and nectar pom boost was great
stray frigate
@ocean arch only discussion is spoiler free channel
ocean arch
Getting a nectar as room reward after Daedalus Hammer being your opener however
long sierra
yeah that is unfortunate
ocean arch
@stray frigate in my experience its better to be safe than sorry
long sierra
daedalus hammer opener is pretty great otherwise
thoughts on skull earring?
and the feather?
stray frigate
ocean arch
I like the feather, zooming around with Zag aspect sword is good fun
Skull earring pairs brilliantly with the Duo boon that reduces damage taken below a threshold
smoky oasis
I always start with Artemis keepsake then change to the + 8 encounter one
long sierra
+8 encounter one?
smoky oasis
+8 encounters are so good later on when u start spamming cast
ocean arch
Yeah the Charon well duration boon is good
long sierra
ohhhhhhh
yeah i've thought about that but I always prefer having skelly as backup on final boss
stray frigate
God trinket + god trinket + coins + charon is my usual way
ocean arch
I've run Orpheus in Styx to some success
smoky oasis
@long sierra skelly is good early but once u have more hp it's redundant
stray frigate
yeah i took it for GY special crit build in low heat
long sierra
but i've used less deaths now so i feel like it could be a good idea. you run the risk on not getting items for the final encounter though dont you?
stray frigate
1900 crit for the last boss
smoky oasis
most runs I only use 2 DD at most
long sierra
the tooth is better early?
stray frigate
feel so satisfying
ocean arch
The tooth is stronger the worse you are at the game is what I'm gathering here
long sierra
right
ocean arch
Which isn't wrong tbh
The better you are at avoiding damage the worse a cheat death is
long sierra
but doesnt it get used after DD?
smoky oasis
^
ocean arch
It does
green sable
:/
long sierra
I think if I have a good build i could avoid it
stray frigate
i tried so hard in erebus for this useless trash? http://prntscr.com/qvxwdg
ocean arch
You went to Erebus, that's your first mistake
fallow niche
Erebus is fine in Tartarus
ocean arch
I'm joking
stray frigate
well at least last will help me with catwheels
long sierra
whats erebus?
ocean arch
Greater recall ain't that bad tbh
stray frigate
@long sierra high heat rooms
stray frigate
dont get hit to have reward
smoky oasis
what's the best call? I think Artemis/Athena has to be on top right?
fallow niche
Depends on your build
long sierra
i have those unlocked but not at high enough heats yet
fallow niche
And what you think you need
turbid needle
Generally, Zeus or Dionysus.
fallow niche
Artemis' call is actually consistently one of the worst imo
stray frigate
Athena>Ares>Artemida>Zeus
ocean arch
Athena call is great if you have very high player damage
turbid needle
But like Forge said, can change depending on your build.
long sierra
i like arty call. Dio is good too,
fallow niche
Zeus and Dio are spammable calls and synergize well with Hermes' dodge boon
Athena is the best of the invincible calls and the rest are honestly quite meh
stray frigate
Athena call is great if u have riposte - Hades just killed himself with it
fallow niche
Aphrodite Call will nuke Hades down real hard
turbid needle
Artemis's Aid is one of the Calls that kinda sucks in individual doses and is useful as a panic button with a full gauge.
fallow niche
Its mostly a boss killer boon
long sierra
how does aphro nuke
turbid needle
Forge, have you seen my 14k Aphro Aid crit?
ocean arch
Poseidon's call can be a decent repositioning tool
fallow niche
Artemis' call is a worse Aphrodite call max imo
long sierra
it charms i thoguht
smoky oasis
I have used Anthena twice only and was surprised at how fast Hades killed himself
fallow niche
That's nuts @turbid needle
ocean arch
@long sierra greater call does 2.5k damage
turbid needle
It was before boss skips were removed.
long sierra
ah
fallow niche
@long sierra It charms at all levels, but when you max your gauge it does 2500 damage
And can be buffed via other effects
smoky oasis
so Artemis is bad cuz of overkill dmg?
long sierra
I must always miss that detail XD
smoky oasis
@fallow niche wait how do you skipp hydra totally?
fallow niche
Doesn't look like anything was done to get rid of them
smoky oasis
I could only skip 1 phase
long sierra
skipping meaning you do enough dmg to bypass the invulnerability stage break?
fallow niche
I've taken down Meg to half health in the first second too
long sierra
wow thats early
smoky oasis
yea bosses have 2 invulnerable phases
fallow niche
@smoky oasis @long sierra At the very start of each boss fight there is a very small window where you can deal damage to them and they won't damage gate at all.
Generally "skipping" them, by instantly killing them or something similar, is done by using a keepsake (usually Meg's) and priviledged position + some extra damage
green sable
Nice forge
fallow niche
Hydra, on Extreme Measures 2, is the easiest to skip by far
green sable
i was messing with a new rail build given to me by heart it wasn't bad
fallow niche
Theseus + Asterius are like impossible to skip
Meg is very hard but not impossible to skip
turbid needle
green sable
in fact i almost got to king and beefcake
fallow niche
Meg keepsake is usable on every boss fight besides the first and last
So, half of them, and all the minibosses
Its good, especially since it lets you skip Hydra entirely
green sable
i love it ❤️
stray frigate
Same for Tomatos comp?
fallow niche
Generally the keepsakes are used like this:
- Bouldy for general use / newer players
- Meg for speedrunners
- Skelly for 32 heat runners
- The other two are bad
stray frigate
Can Tomatos help with Meg?
fallow niche
Tomatoes?
fallow niche
Oh
turbid needle
I think Than is usable on the Furies, but good luck connecting.
fallow niche
Than can be used against Meg yeah but the delay sucks
fallow niche
Its AoE needs to be larger
ocean arch
The delay is less terrible now but still not great
stray frigate
imagine Tisiphone face
fallow niche
iirc bouldy and skelly are the only ones usable on Hades
stray frigate
y
turbid needle
I think it's smaller than Than's normal circle in Encounters.
stray frigate
so we can see Skelly doesnt work for Hades.... i think
smoky oasis
I hope we get to play Than as alternate character
fallow niche
That wouldn't make any sense
smoky oasis
after the 20th time I'm getting bored of this little boy with daddy issue story
smoky oasis
😄
opal bay
There is a lot out there.
smoky oasis
I mean a few variations in storyline would be nice
Zag rescueing Dusa who got kidnapped forexample
turbid needle
I'm almost 900 attempts in.
marble ridge
a bit too complicated imo
fallow niche
goddamn schpoon
turbid needle
It's really a game designed to run its core gameplay loop over and over.
fallow niche
even i think i would get bored by then
turbid needle
No, shut up, we had this conversation already.
turbid needle
You're way better than all of us, remember? You've been playing for two months and have 32 Heat cleared on every weapon.
ocean arch
I've only had the game for 3 weeks but I'm quite certain I'd be that many runs in had I bothered with EGS
fallow niche
what does that have to do about thinking 900 is a lot of attempts
stray frigate
lloks like ur conversation didnt end well
fallow niche
thats a LOT of Hades
stray frigate
and u get hit in ur head
ocean arch
Would probably still be terrible at the game, no lie
stray frigate
so u dont remeber anything
stray frigate
i feel u r sarcastic
fallow niche
no, no, I'm serious
turbid needle
I posted my attempt count as proof that even no-lifing doesn't mean anyone can do what you're doing.
fallow niche
you're a joy 
@stray frigate
stray frigate
thx
fallow niche
@turbid needle I mean I remember that but I didn't remember the # of attempts
I didn't think that convo had anything to do with what we were talking about here tho ;-;
turbid needle
It's fine, I'm making a mess out of this.
stray frigate
how hard erebus in elisium
inner sparrow
Traps +400% damage, second boon reduces trap damage :^ )
turbid needle
Erebus is absolutely nightmarish in Elysium.
stray frigate
well i just entered(
turbid needle
Unless you're uncommonly skilled, I'd recommend against taking them at all.
stray frigate
wish me luck
warm halo
what do people usually leave out for 32 heat runs?
stray frigate
turbid needle
Guan Yu?
turbid needle
No Choice, Budget Cuts.
fallow niche
@warm halo Depends on the person but I personally leave out No Choice & Budget Cuts, as well as making sure Lasting Consequences isn't over 50% (unless its Guan Yu)
I think most people who do 32 heat do it this way
turbid needle
I'd be amazed if someone pulled of 32 Heat with every weapon and No Choice.
fallow niche
Good god
That's just
Being a lucker
I saw one No Choice run before and his RNG was impeccable
Would have lost otherwise
warm halo
no choice is the most fun condition imo but yeah it sucks
fallow niche
Its the least fun imo, it specifically reduces the impact of player skill on the outcome of the run
inner sparrow
Explosive special for spear is a game winner
warm halo
probably all the isaac hours in me that like it
warm halo
wym
fallow niche
I'm coming from Slay the Spire so :v
fallow niche
I beat the game on all chars at highest ascension levels :v
warm halo
yeah im nowhere near good enough for that
fallow niche
@warm halo The lessons and good experiences people take away from the games they play shape the way they view other games I mean
warm halo
I think I did up to at least 10 with the first three
fallow niche
10 is good
inner sparrow
I get really terrible luck in Slay @fallow niche
fallow niche
And its not about being 'good' like its an inherent quality thing, its about finally getting that paradigm shift that lets you see the game in a new way imo
warm halo
I def started roguelikes with Isaac but I don't think I'd say that it really gives me much bias
I like all kinds
fallow niche
I like all kinds too
fallow niche
@inner sparrow Do you play Ironclad?
inner sparrow
@fallow niche Ironclad was always my favourite until Watcher
opal bay
I mean to be honest MOST of the time roguelike gives not much to pick during runs. Though if they do it means a lot of preplanning. Played most of them and with confidence I can say Enter The Gungeon is least fun when the run ends up with rubbish equipment.
inner sparrow
Isaac was a fun one to play also but I have to keep taking breaks on getting to 1001%+
fallow niche
I can't do that
warm halo
is that the three save files thing
winged nexus
gungeon is hardly ever hard though
so even trash runs pose no extra difficulty
inner sparrow
Because again I don't have good luck. I was racing my friend to max achieves and spent double his time doing exactly what he was doing but not getting good items
fallow niche
All your luck is in Isaac and not StS
inner sparrow
Multiple bob's brains in a row and that sort of thing
warm halo
bob's brain is my baby boy
inner sparrow
Meanwhile he's getting angel rooms whenever he needs them and stuff lmfao
@fallow niche Watched a streamer get to 4th area in StS 2 times in a row as watcher after not having played the game for months and constantly messing up play order
Gave me agita aha
fallow niche
lmao
opal bay
Gungeon though is very slow compared to other games tbh. My only real problem with it is how you unlock the endings for characters and I just can't get a luck for a way to to pass the invisible floor room for the item.
Though this is getting into #off-topic-discussion territory
fallow niche
Ye
warm halo
you can use bullet casings from reloading
inner sparrow
Loved Gungeon but never really got into it unfortunately 😦
warm halo
how many people have done max heat runs so far
karmic coyote
none
warm halo
ye
fallow niche
That's impossible atm
warm halo
oh heck
fallow niche
Its physically impossible to beat it without a pre-seeded TAS run or something
warm halo
ah
warm halo
ofc
fallow niche
and no choice makes it entirely RNG dependent
inner sparrow
Perfect inputs... I'd love to see someone complete it, but certainly not me
warm halo
Somebody'll get it someday
fallow niche
so you need a combination of insane skill + an aggregation of many runs or a pre-seeded run
honestly I only see the speedrunning discord setting it up for me or the chinese dude as the only people who'll try that nonsense
because holiday is the only person i know atm who's heavily experimenting with how the game seeds runs
warm halo
I do hope they find a way to make seeded runs an official thing without interfering with the story n stuff
ocean arch
Would be neat
fallow niche
... What do you mean by that?
ocean arch
As in input a seed for a run then have a race with people
fallow niche
The game's RNG doesn't interfere with the story
ocean arch
Ah, like so
warm halo
well yeah but like
finding seeds to get specific story interactions would make them less special
fallow niche
Currently the last few WR's for Hades Any% this update were done on the same initial seed so that's already happened @ocean arch
@warm halo You can't do that
warm halo
even though its mostly flavour stuff
ocean arch
If you're thinking about doing seeded runs you're probably past the point that story matters I'd think
warm halo
if not all flavour stuff
fallow niche
You can't use RNG to skip stuff in the story
fallow niche
You mean always get Sisyphus?
And so rushing down his story stuff?
You technically already kinda can do that
warm halo
I'd imagine unlocks would be disabled
ocean arch
Curious as to how you'd do seeded runs then o.O
warm halo
but no I'm just referring to flavour dialogues because im a sucker for those things and ideally they should be experienced naturally... imo
ocean arch
Save file sharing?
warm halo
probably an unpopular opinion though considering they really dont matter
fallow niche
Its mostly people collecting saves because you can un-do a run and save the seed of any particular run @ocean arch
So yeah
ocean arch
Ah, would be nice to have an ingame option
Though I guess it's not really that big of a deal
fallow niche
Idk how'd they'd do that considering how seeds are generated but yeah
From what we know atm seeds are generated based on everything in the game
Including what pots you break in each room
The game records everything
ocean arch
Oh, lovely
fallow niche
So it has to be done via save files atm
ocean arch
That's actually insane
fallow niche
Yeah
Which means that by breaking pots in a room you change the outcome of the next room
Its real butterfly effect stuff
ocean arch
Likely a quirk of the engine design
fallow niche
That's why there is initial seed vs "seeded runs" which are taking that initial seed, having the player do specific actions to cause specific outcomes in subsequent rooms
ocean arch
Yeah
ocean arch
Aye
Also means you won't see a Binding of Isaac type situation where you can have a seed code that then has the exact same run for all players in terms of where items drop, floor layouts etc
stray frigate
ocean arch
Obviously before keepsake choice is factored in
stray frigate
well it was not bad
but i dont think i can keep it till 20
ok good luck everyone see you soon
fallow niche
Try and refine your builds and skill on runs with only Forced Overtime active, that's how I managed to get good at the game, you can do it! @stray frigate
Also see you!
autumn bough
What does "quicker cast" actually mean?
Just the animation? Or does it affect projectile speed?
autumn bough
How about Demeter's beam?
ocean arch
May be confirmation bias here but I got the impression it affects tickrate
Might also affect tracking speed for Demeter cast
Though that is entirely conjecture on my part
karmic coyote
charged special for chiron is busted, i just beat the barge of death middle management without attacking due to chaos curse with relative ease
long sierra
anyone just done a straight poseidon dash build?
you get all the slam bonus and the slam dash? main attack is dashing
quite fun XD
inner sparrow
Did something similar with the second wave boon and duo Zeus boon
bright mulch
Yeah I think I did that a long time ago in much earlier builds like back when Hydra was last boss
autumn bough
Yeah, it doesn't home in unless you attack
inner sparrow
Less arrows and such but still applies doom
autumn bough
Or does charge change that?
inner sparrow
I have this run going right now that's special damage +200% + explosive throw + knockbacks which rupture on special hit
Attack is poison
I'm annihilating everything way too fast
inner sparrow
It's my favourite combo especially with 30% faster from Hermes
karmic coyote
@autumn bough no charge just increases the damage, i have aphrodite on special
inner sparrow
If you deflect the skulls they just disappear????
mild crag
If you deflect it does damage to the enemy and numbskulls don't have a lot of health
Unless you means hades casts?
turbid needle
If they hit Hades they will, but I'm pretty sure I've seen them land and explode.
inner sparrow
But I was so close I guess they just poofed
mild crag
Oh sorry I was asking @autumn bough if he had a cast in them
@inner sparrow that sounds about right
inner sparrow
Just casually having an ambrosia conversation with Thanatos even though he poofed off somewhere
autumn bough
Pretty sure I didn't. Maybe I could have missed that, but I don't think so.
mild crag
I didn't think it hit that hard
Got a lot of heat on maybe?
Hard labor in particular
175 just doesn't sound right
autumn bough
Literally only Middle Management
bright mulch
I had a pretty bad time when I learned phase 2 pots were traps
And got the 400% damage boost
mild crag
Doesn't seem like it should do 175
bright mulch
And hit for like 150
mild crag
That'll happen ye
bright mulch
Lol
karmic coyote
i think my skill is degrading just after a few days of not playing the game, could barely beat hades with 5 heat
choked so hard on him, lost all dd and about 20hp left
autumn bough
Why am I getting a shield with a lightning bolt popping up when I take damage? Is that an indicator for the Myrmidon Bracer?
turbid needle
Yes.
mild crag
@karmic coyote skill atrophy 
stable glacier
um, whats the highest level a boon can be upgraded to?
last nacelle
Like from poms?
stable glacier
ye
last nacelle
Pom upgrade levels scale weirdly. They do almost nothing for some boons.
stable glacier
yea i noticed
last nacelle
Dionysus Aid is(was?) an exception. Not sure if that got fixed.
stable glacier
some only get like a single point of damage to their next level
mild crag
There's no level cap
stable glacier
ah ty
mild crag
The amount you get from each Pom decreases though
Down to a minimum value ofc
So poms can't give you nothing
stable glacier
ah. im glad. that at least allows people who get lucky to focus on riding out a single boon combo to the max xD
i like that they didnt cap it.
roguelikes arent roguelikes without crazy builds and numbers xD
fallow niche
Just got a 32 heat run recorded
wew
wasn't bad at all
the pact changes have made it soooo much less painful
chrome viper
haven't been able to get it myself
everytime I make it to elysium and asterius does the combo with no windup and kills me lol
karmic coyote
@mild crag i was using hestia btw so either i'm worse or hestia became worse, take your pick
bright mulch
Respect the beef
turbid needle
Pick Hestia and Eternal Rose because I wanna be one of the cool kids like Kossetsu, and No Choice eats Heartbreak Strike on spawn.
inner sparrow
Asterius no wind-up combo reminds me of the old Monster Hunter games fighting Rathian subspecies
turbid needle
Oooh, Blood and Darkness, it ate Premium Vintage and left me with Drunken Dash and common After Party.
It's like bamboo shoots under my nails.
autumn bough
It shows you what you aren't allowed to pick anymore? That seems like bad form.
turbid needle
We've been asking for that to change but someone's a sadist.
turbid needle
It ate Premium Vintage twice in a row.
mild crag
turbid needle
Wow. Rude.
oblique tusk
heh
turbid needle
Swear to Hades, if this crashes again after I kill my dad...
karmic coyote
huh getting duo boon seems a lot easier, time to hunt for the few remaining demeter duo
livid comet
what's this about?