i mean, for the Hydra fight it's necessary
#h1-builds-and-combat
supple echo
proud storm
for the furies it doesnt sound like a big deal but skipping throug hydra's phases makes it so much easier
supple echo
Yeah
wheat elbow
It really isn't
proud storm
it used to be possible
wheat elbow
On the contrary, the Hydras invincibility frames are the worst
Aside from the main boiss phase being disproportionally more easy than the multihead phase
supple echo
It forces you to fight the other heads, which is the intended pacing of the fight
wheat elbow
the time the Hydra takes to transition between those while being impervious is just daunting
wheat elbow
(and I am aware that it got better with the last update)
supple echo
A bit annoying
wheat elbow
Meg just becomes impervious three times in one fight even though her phases don't change in a truly notable matter.
Same for Alecto
I forgive Tisiphone because she does a huge map change with a transition
supple echo
It could be like the enemies that shield other enemies, where once the shielder is dead, the others become no longer impercious
impervious*
But that could only work for the Hydra Fight
wheat elbow
I mean, then there is the bull
He also has impervious periods that he simply does not need.
proud storm
one
wheat elbow
He also becomes invincible when Thesseus dies
Which is even worse because that sometimes just breaks his AI
making him just stand there and do nothing on occassion
supple echo
the voidstones
just looked it up in the codex
I never get Theseus before the bull due to his shield, so I have never encountered this
wheat elbow
I focus Theseus every fight, so he usually goes out before Beefboy
It's arguable if that is a smart strategy, really
It feels efficient to me because if I fight Theseus, Beefboy will come close by himself, allowing me to cleave them
shell finch
this update is the best
even noob like me can run it ~20 min due to hermes
40% on plume and additional evasion
facetanked Theseus and bull while dealing 500 damage specials. Didn't get quite as broken builds before
whole raft
Nice. I'm still slow, same amount of clears.
supple echo
Not sure I'm a fan of Electric shot leaving a foe to look for additional enemies. Yes, additional lighting damage is always a plus, but it frequently ends up trailing away from the enemies and never embedding in a foe
Which means no added bloodstone damage
plucky oxide
Boiling Blood Cast Interactions
Reliable:
Artemis
Poseidon (fun note, aoe still spawns for same damage if you hit terrain and not an enemy)
Athena
Unreliable:
Zeus (ricochets)
Aphrodite (? I have been having issues, often with the first cast i lob at a foe)
Inapplicable:
Ares
Dionysus
supple echo
sweet
Yeah, the Dionysus cast threw me off the first time with no embed
292/300 obols Elysium key trove
The privileged status damage
green birch
Just finished a couple runs for the first time in a while! I forgot how good the sword felt haha. Quickest win for me on the new update!
Also every time I tried to finesse an Artemis duo boon she was just "ya want a CAST BUILD???" in conclusion I love cast builds now
rugged apex
so how about that fully loaded, zag????
eternal stag
man i love artemis cast build with the sword
since the sword's one downside for me is that it doesn't do range well
green birch
for real for real! Then paired with a Hermes boon or Athena's wrath and you can pretty much do whatever you want on the battlefield
rugged apex
tip: herme's cast speed boons also increase the movement speed of your cast.
this is very evident with hunting blades, because it makes the blade rifts spin around enemies.
unkempt pagoda
orbit blades
rugged apex
exactly!
deft charm
Help me out guys...Ares boons always seem really underwhelming, but nobody in feedback channel agrees. What am I missing? Is there some cool hidden interaction?
rugged apex
ares has several extremely powerful duo boons
and honestly even without them the doom effect is quite powerful.
deft charm
Is there a way to try to get duos? They seem super rare
rugged apex
they all need a boon from each of the relevant gods, and some are really specific
hunting blades needs slicing shot exactly, plus deadly strike, flourish, dash, or wrath for artemis, for example
deft charm
I see so a mixture of luck, and which boons you take
rugged apex
yeah.
deft charm
Ok, thanks
rugged apex
also, ares's doom effect counts for priviledged status, which, as it's one of the better status effects, can be very useful
green birch
What weapons are you using most? Not all of them go well with Ares.
rugged apex
imo ares is best with sword and shield
since you want to apply doom to as many enemies as you can.
atomic panther
Rail with ares special offers absolutely crazy damage bursts
rugged apex
situationally bow special with ares can also work, but I prefer the ability to repeatedly and consistently apply doom
...I really gotta stop neglecting the gun thoooo so take that with a grain of salt
atomic panther
The rail special's reload and travel time mean that you don't actually miss out on any dps with Doom
plucky oxide
Ares boons are super, super awesome. Lets say you've got a great Artemis crit build with attack on sword, and you're also using Empowered Nova. You've got the crit debuff that lets you crit more, and you're spewing out a ton of damage with your attacks due to how often you're critting. Adding Ares to your special is an amazing bonus. Why?
Ares special does amazing flat damage, so you don't need to invest heavily into Ares to get the core bonus he offers, which is Doom
Doom counts as a debuff, which in combination from your mark from Artemis will proc privileged status. That's a 50% damage buff to your attack, and that only needed a single boon from Ares to help you get there. It's also great for clearing out tiny mobs, allowing you to keep focus on high healthy targets while doom picks off the remaining litter around you.
Okay, so Ares is awesome because Doom procs Priv. Status easily. Fair. But what about picking up an Ares keepsake and trying to clear the game starting from Ares?
Pick up Shield and Ares Doom on Special, and watch it absolutely chew through targets. Shield throw has crazy range and mob clearing potential, and unless you've got an amazing handle with shield, theres going to be some downtime between your flings. The result, is that you'll be constantly proc'ing doom on targets. Combining this with Dio dash, or Aphrodite dash, is all the dps you need.
What's so neat about that, is that two boons alone are doing the entire work of your build. A status on your dash, plus Ares curse on shield. Think of all the artemis boons you need to get crazy burst damage.
And, lastly, Ares duo boons are insanely powerful. Ares cast? Nuts, though does require investment to truly get insane.
I think its the fact that picking up one or two boons from ares is all I really need, that I like most about him. On the other side of that same coin, Zeus boons feel so dependent on heavily investing in him. Both are viable options, but they're different flavors altogether.
atomic panther
All of the above, yes. Blender builds are so much fun, and privileged status works wonders with Doom
kind cloud
@deft charm
"Ares boons always seem really underwhelming"
...is a statement I never expected to read on any forum dedicated to this game.
Professor @plucky oxide provided an awesome explanation.
plucky oxide
what's unique about Doom is often times the thing people find lacking, which is that dooms damage is somewhat static. It's weird to think that a single boon augments any ability to do the same, static, timed damage.
deft charm
Thanks, everyone...and especially to Pause for the great explanation. I haven't used privileged status yet, so I can see how Ares really makes that viable.
Yeah, room has always seemed underwhelming since it doesn't stack.
plucky oxide
i think, when i first started playing the game, my thought was, wait, why should i pick doom? if i attack four times with spear, doom only effects one of those hits?
deft charm
Exactly
plucky oxide
but on the flipside, its also a blessing, because that means you only need to hit once. then, you're free to use other moves, like special, cast, and dash. its a bit weird, but definitely off-putting.
I think they tried to make this feel less weird by adding the boon that 'makes doom deal more damage when reapplied', but I feel like this route isnt currently as good as the 'one and done' tapping
if you're interested in making doom go faster, look at getting Ares and Athena together. Their duo boon makes curse stacks immediately pop their damage when hit with deflecting abilities.
Ares doom attack, and Athena deflect dash with that duo boon becomes amazing
deft charm
That sounds powerful! I'll look for it; thanks again .
plucky oxide
No problem! I can definitely see how you came to the conclusion, warrition. It's definitely a valid notion to come to due to how different Ares feels/works in comparison to the rest of the cast. It might also come down to personal preference as well. Sometimes, I don't want the big number to come from some delayed spike, and instead want a weapon that does big numbers from the attacks i'm directly using.
errant narwhal
I also didn’t choose ares basically ever unless it was for urge to kill
But then I heard praise in this server a lot
And then this happened
https://youtu.be/PGBbea9o03E
proud storm
that thumbnail makes it look like artemis is cursing you
errant narwhal
lmao
turbid needle
Anyone got any tips for the highest heat run? Just finished 2nd by running shield+ares keepsake. Mainly taking special doom upgrade and upgrading it
hollow lark
Yes, got my first-ever clear of Hades!
green birch
congrats!
sly dirge
Just completed a run where I earned seven death defy's, and I feel that is a little busted. This was with 25 heat.
pastel jolt
i honk runs with that many death defies aren’t as common now that styx charges more for kisses 
........i meant “think”
clown in me just really wanted to break free huh
sly dirge
The fact I was able to bank 6 death defies at once was what made that run feel unfair
hollow minnow
Congratulations TallManStan!
ARGGG I'm trying to go for 81 Heat, and I reached the end twice in one day and both times I got SOOOO CLOSE only to die!!! Sooo frustrating!!!
Sooo, does anyone have any advice for those terrible pink floating orbs of death?!?! How the HECK are you supposed to kill them? Is it the orb that damages me or the butterflies?! Even if I go into an area with several DD's and full/almost full health, any time I face more than one in a normal encounter or especially that AWFUL Pink Orb Boss Room, I ALWAYS loose almost ALL my heath!!!! They're terrible!!! How do you fight and SURVIVE them????????????
plucky oxide
The butterflies deal damage, but you must deal damage to the o r b
It's like playing jump rope, as the butterflies always home towards you.
pastel jolt
area attacks are good for clearing the butterflies out if you need to get close
sly dirge
It is possible to deflect the butterflies, however it is just better to destroy them
The secondary of the sword, bow, and gun, as well as the charge attack of the spear and shield are good choices for clearing the butterflies.
trim ingot
hunting blades IS op
tranquil fiber
can the butterflies hurt other enemies that are in them? i thought some things died that i didn't kill while i was ignoring the butterflies once.
errant narwhal
I don’t know because I haven’t played vs them much but could it be other traps?
Lots of them in elysium, enemies often die on their own
tranquil fiber
maybe it was traps, since i ignored the butterflies for ages on the butterfly-orb boss before i realised the other things spawn infinitely.
pastel jolt
the big room-spanning shots tend to wipe out a lot of shades for me
tranquil fiber
that would certainly explain it, i am used to things in elysium having so much health they take me a long time to kill, so it's weird when there are suddenly less things than i expect.
green birch
something I realized is... if you don't engage an Elysium enemy, they stand perfectly still, unlike the Tartarus enemies. Usually this is right in the line of those slow and steady arrow traps. And since their ghost weapon is in the trail of those traps, the cells that spawn end up getting killed when they try to revive too. With how big the rooms are, it's easy to accidentally leave a few enemies alone, haha.
tranquil fiber
that seems more like a bug than intended behaviour.
green birch
I think it's more along the lines of "intended with unforseen consequences" personally aha
plucky oxide
wow today i learned that charging up the shield makes the face on the front go crazy and start making a bunch of little noises. how did I not notice this. did i forget due to the countless runs I've played? it feels new, but obvious.
regardless its very cute
trim ingot
uuuuuuugh i had a really good sword special build going but my health was low going into theseus fight so i lost >:(
green birch
I hate it when that happens 😢
trim ingot
double nova, super nova, tempest flourish, with razor shoals and passion dash to proc privileged status
i was doing like 600 damage per special
maybe i shouldn't have taken slicing shot so i could proc boiling blood too
also chaos boon seriously needs to guarantee a chaos gate in the zone
hollow minnow
oOOOOOOH I just had the most AWESOME run ever!!!!! Admittedly it was a no-heat run, but I cleared it in my fastest time EVER! 25 minutes!!! I just got the Duo boon between Aphrodite and Diyonisis called "Low Tolerance"!!! oh my gooooshhhhh it was the most incredible thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even the Boss Orb was no problem, and usually he's a HUGE problem for me!!!! And Thesius and the Bull were no problem with this!!! OMG IT WAS SO COOL! 😄 😄 😄 😄
On the other hand, I finally earned/bought/found 120 Heat!!!! I'm soooo scared of doing a run that way!!! Any advice?!?!!?!?!? 😱 😱 😱 😱 💀
plucky oxide
Awesome! Congrats!
I don't think I'll ever do 120 heat. Good luck to you on that!
I assume there's a lot of patience needed to pull off something like that, though.
pastel jolt
do not jump straight from 0 to 120, that's for sure
celest lake
I tried doing heat runs a little while ago, and I don't even think I made it through Tartarus on 25. I definitely need to pick up some keys before I try again, unlock more pact options and spread out the pain a little
pure oriole
I'd really advise to try and put 50 heat on the +dmg% so you take +500%dmg
It will make you a lot better at dodging and therefore at the game in general
Even if you do not manage to clear and then spread the pain differently, you'll probably have improved a lot and find the game easier
pastel sentinel
So I don't know if anyone's already found out about it but Shield Of Chaos combined with LOTS of Poseidon Boons is insane! Admittedly I've been blessed and got the heroic boon that triggers knockback effects twice ontop of ez priviledged, but holy smokes!!
ember lotus
I think some god boons like Poseidon and sometimes Dionysus appear more commonly than others. Especially when you're changing the boons on a mini boss encounter. As a result I often get Second Wave. That's great for clearing rooms, less helpful against the Hydra or any of the Elysium bosses. Unless I'm doing something wrong, I rarely see Poseidon boons do anything there. And Dionysus boons take forever to kill anything.
pure oriole
Yeah that's a commonly reported problem, Broseidon is nearly useless against bosses and it makes it one of the worst (if not the worst) god to invest gim
Too bad cause he's my favourite 
atomic panther
In my experience, Poseidon has two advantages: the highest % damage increase in the game (if I'm remembering correctly) alongside Razor Shoals which not only deals tons of damage over time but also lasts a long time for Privileged Position, and Ocean's Bounty which if you get it early can get you a truly ridiculous amount of extra health
Darkness and Obols too, but the health is much more noticeable in the run
pastel sentinel
Agreed, it really feels as if you're weaker in boss fights and in Eylsium. Mainly bc knockback effects don't trigger imho BUT I really like the way you get to play with his boons. Amazing clearspeed and it's fun to just slamTM the enemies away
sly dirge
Question, does theseus change the god he calls on during his fight depending on which ones you have? I remeber that he used aphrodite instead of posidion when I had the wrath of posidion, but he has only used posidion from then. Is this normal?
rugged apex
it's based on what god boons you don't have, yeah
sly dirge
I thought I was imagining things when he never used aphrodite again. Thanks for clearing that up
rugged apex
it's also, as far as I know, impossible to get a boon from each god in a single run
sly dirge
That sounds right. I have always reached that boss with boons from ares, hermes, athena, and artimis. I only ever reached him once with a posidion boon.
Dionysus seems to not appear for me very often
rugged apex
which gods show up vary by which gods you have - if you're starting with ares or athena you usually won't get dionysus, and only rarely will you get him with artemis
sly dirge
That is nice to know.
rugged apex
eventually you'll get a sense for what the pool of gods is for each god - especially once you have fated authority.
tranquil fiber
suddenly the trinkets that that start you with ______ god makes sense.
rugged apex
hm! fun fact: if you have doom and another status effect on an enemy, doom benefits from the priviledged status bonus.
atomic panther
Yup! It's part of why it used to be so completely broken with Curse of Longing
rugged apex
(I tested it and it does seem to be impossible to get all the gods - one will always be left out)
(in this case zeus, because zeus)
wheat elbow
I had a run where I managed to get both of Ares Doom Duo Boons with Aphrodite and Athena
I always wanted to know how these two interact with one another!
shell finch
So, how do they interact?
pastel jolt
i would assume it's just "deflect triggers doom on enemy, if they're also weak then the doom effect refreshes itself and can be triggered again by another deflect"
rugged apex
that seems dangerously powerful given that merciful end's bonus damage isn't part of the doom
I need to try that
grant them... a merciless end.
wow shared misery is actually really fun. I like having lots of foes to fight, so having it on is just like... the best experience for me.
where's my +300% enemies shared misery
tardy talon
I keep trying to use the bow's main attack, but always end up using the special instead
that said, having +100% shots, doom and whatever makes it stack makes for a nice shotgun
turbid needle
I just had a very successful Coronacht run. Got Hunting Blades first room of Elysium, then Relentless Barrage on an Epic Lightning Flourish.
So explain Merciful end to me.
It says it has 120 damage, but shouldn't it just set off the Doom tick?
pastel jolt
i think it sets off the doom tick AND does 120 damage
turbid needle
OH.
wheat elbow
I made a video of it, you can find it in the self promo channel.
I imagined it to be either super OP or super underwhelming
Depending on your point of view, I was either right with both or wrong about everything.
Long story short is that you won't gain much by stacking them together.
rugged apex
merciful end+longing is actually pretty good but it's hard to have a build with a good flow for it
plucky oxide
Depends on your weapon and boons, beyond just the duo boons
rugged apex
since you basically need divine dash plus doom+weak on attack and special
plucky oxide
Flurry blade deflect, curse special, Aphrodite dash is what I've crafted as the best loadout
plucky oxide
But you need those three, the right hammer, AND two duos from three gods.
Unless your build is really garbage to begin with, merciful end is pretty darn good on its own. I've yet to get the Dream loadout, but merciful end is really really fast.
rugged apex
for merciful end to be bad your deflect has to be on like. gun special or something
or anything similarly slow and clunky.
plucky oxide
Aye, or world splitter, for whatever reason you'd do that
trim ingot
bosses do take a little rupture damage when they move around on their own so maybe it should be increased against bosses to make up for the lack of knockback damage? 🤔
turbid needle
Anyone know what is the range of distant memory?
proud storm
last i checked it works if you hit an enemy with the tip of the spear
so around that range
pastel jolt
yup, that's about right
plucky oxide
oh. oh my. I think wraths also stack with rails' Invigorating Blast.
base 46 damage on Barbs of the Master Huntress 👀
pastel jolt
everything stacks with invigorating blast
supple echo
Still cant check my build while the game is paused 
Would really help with chaos boons that change
And in general for my playstyle, because I'll run through a door, focusing on what rewards i need and forgetting my boon setup
plucky oxide
Just got a wonderful chaos rng
+57% dash attack
+70% attack
+40% attack
Got myself world splitter (the dash attack hammers were not given to me), slapped on some beefed up Cyclops Jerky from my good pal and gave Theseus a few pats on the back.
Fastest Sword clear yet at 15:15
ty chaos, i love you
trim ingot
wow
turbid needle
any suggestions for 120 heat setup? what to take from pact of punishment, and from shadow upgrades? im usually running aegis with ares keepsake to get special doom upgrade, then switching to distant memory for op special spam
kind anvil
Hey would any of you guys could give me a tip as a begginer? In my 3rd run I faced the current last boss and I had much more trouble in general than with the last 2 bosses. Am I missing something or is he just really hard?
pastel jolt
yeah, theseus and asterius are tough cookies
rugged apex
he's pretty difficult - dash constantly, dash attack constantly.
pastel jolt
it's mostly a case of getting used to how their attacks work, and i'm still not good at predicting what asterius (the minotaur) is gonna do next
kind anvil
Nice, thanks guys! Also do you have tips in how to kill the shield dudes? They usually take a good chunk of my hp
rugged apex
they're honestly real annoying. if you have a piercing attack, range works but might be slow. otherwise you kinda have to get behind them when they attack and that's it's own kettle of terrible, spin-attacking fish.
kind anvil
What if I'm overwhelmed by them how can I kill them?
rugged apex
I think the usual trick is wait til their attack animation starts then dash past them. but admittedly I still don't have it down, so like
atomic panther
Rail special helps a lot, because if you can land it behind them they don't block it. Otherwise, you'll need to bait them into attacking to get their guard down, then dodge and punish
Spear special also works for getting around their shield
plucky oxide
shield enemies often like to face you, so it can be rather difficult to get them when they're still mobile. As soon as they commit to an action, that facing direction is the only direction they have. Rail + spear special and piercing attacks are your best bets to take down mobile shield enemies, otherwise, you have to play a bait+punish game with shield enemies.
rugged apex
if you do enough damage you can ignore both of these things and Just Kill Them by going ham in their general direction
but this is less a strategy and more a lifestyle
plucky oxide
As soon as they start doing an attack, get out of the area in front of them. Dash to the sides (or behind, if you really think you can make it before their attack goes through). As soon as you get in their range, they're locked into a directional attack (either ranged or dash spin).
atomic panther
^^^ My strategy in life is to walk at things and left click, so they give me a lot of trouble too
rugged apex
tip: replace walking with dashing at all times
your feet should not touch the floor. your sword should touch the enemies, though.
plucky oxide
If groups are an issue, my best suggestion is to use the environment as your best source of damage. Those pods do crazy damage, and as long as their back is to them, that's free damage
atomic panther
Joan, I've found that with World Splitter it's easier for me to power walk than it is to dash because it allows me to chop at a moment's notice
rugged apex
that's fair but also dashing is iframes and iframes are zag's favorite thing
plucky oxide
a little pause between dashing and attacking is all you need to chop. think of the two as different tempos/rhythm
plucky oxide
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523743368124301318/595046233702400019/doomguywouldbeproud.png
Level! Ten! Doom!!!
atomic panther
:D
plucky oxide
If only It was Epic ; . ;
Proc'ing Privileged Status with Aphro dash, and each time I hit with Curse I get to stack additional damage.
The real tragedy? Both hammers, all attack upgrades. GAME PLS.
If only I had piercing and 2x special. Pair that with Hermes 30% faster special and it'd be... beautiful.
atomic panther
Hm. That is not the emoji I thought it was
plucky oxide
game is good and fun :)
kind anvil
Forgot to say it, sorry hehe. Thanks a lot guys :D
plucky oxide
Kind of want to hit 250 clears before the next update.
atomic panther
In this server, you gotta post a link to the image. If you can post it in another server, do so and copy the link and put that here
atomic panther
Good luck! Bounce that shield at the boys!
turbid needle
my butthole has achieved maximum clench
nope, failed
RIP
Good job making it that far.
shield AoE brought asterius to 50% hp when minataur was at 25%
too much stuff to dodge
really unlucky that I didnt get any extra dashes from hermes
with only 2, really hard to dodge the bull rush
green birch
you mean when theseus was at 25%?
turbid needle
got hermes i think 3 times, once even in heat room (75) but no luck
yes, theseus
damn
mixing up
Lure him towards a wall at an angle, and dodge between him and the wall. It will get the charge almost every time.
green birch
rip
green birch
sounds like you need a break!
turbid needle
Godspeed.
he tends to slide against the wall that way
also- theseus spear aim tends to get bugged- doesnt stop blinking even after he has thrown it, asterius keeps floating in air with the jump attack and is just stuck there flying for 5 secs sometimes
kinda terifying
turbid needle
try nr 2. lost one death defiance in previous room trying to get health from infernal chest q.q
sleep is for the weak
rugged apex
who needs sleep when you have dashes
turbid needle
and rip
literally had no red hp remaining at theseus, as doom almost procced, got caught by stray god attack
iron flint
f
btw duder, don’t get discouraged, I can barely beat theseus at 0 heat, you must be crazy good
turbid needle
Anubis, what is your go-to Heat assignment?
turbid needle
Sec
Vicious torment- 500%
Death insurance-2
Convenience fee-50%
Pain tolerance-50%
Shared misery-50%
Stifling darkness-750
I am also trying out stifling darkness to 500 by giving up boiling blood in which case i can ignore convenience fee, which lets me buy more boons, pomegranates etc. from well and caron himself
lost rose
yeah, i've personally found max stifling darkness to not be too punishing
turbid needle
Hoo boy. Stifling Darkness.
lost rose
if you have the wiggle room for it, i'd suggest trying without death insurance too
turbid needle
For mirror of night i run:
shadow presence-10%
Chthonic vitality-1
Infernal soul-2
greater reflex-1
boiling blood-50%
death defiance-3
lost rose
admittedly i haven't run 120 since the new update came out, but death insurance was a nightmare trying to clear crowded rooms
turbid needle
Death defiance kinda works like damage buffer- instead of loosing 100hp from one hit, i loose only 5, if im 5hp away from another insurance
id say drop infernal soul, but for me it is vital for hydra fight- to take down heads as fast as possible
the boon upgrades- meh, they are good, but you can do without them- since most are for damage, if you are quick on your feat and dont get damaged, it just takes more time for you
but this setup is specific for shield ares special spam. can clear rooms quite quickly, thats why i choose shared misery over faster enemies. Shared misery also, as far as i have figured, increases the gold you get- more enemies=more gold. Faster enemies messes up with attack timing, which i have gotten down to near perfection- untill last boss fight, i get hit 3-4 times, mainly from hydra and from stray bs moment.
Someone running adamant rail or any other single target damage build, will want to take faster enemies not shared misery
plucky oxide
Shield ares Special so stronggg
turbid needle
It is. Although, sometimes poison also works
hell, even weak effect works out- you can allow yourself to take more damage
more hits*
plucky oxide
Ares Dio and Aphro are definitely the Power Trio
And Artemis wrath for obvious reasons
turbid needle
usually take ares keepsake for tartarus, then swap for butterfly in asphodel, then for collar in elysium, to guarantee more hp from insurance
I had a really good Dread Flight Lightning FLourish run.
To be honest, i prefer zeus wrath
Especially to burst down hydra
Zeus' Wrath is very powerful, but it taking 100 is debilitating at times.
plucky oxide
I feel like Artemis wrath is useful in both hydra and final fight
turbid needle
^
Less-so against Theseus.
Because if he turns left he'll block you.
Disagree- zeus wrath, with extra lightning strike % chance and bigger aoe can take down 3 heads in 1 duration
plucky oxide
Artemis' wrath isn't blocked
turbid needle
But then again, with 120 heat run, i really tend to avoid any boss battles or instances where you have to choose gods- they are a easy way to end the run
plucky oxide
I use it for single head duration, but we're playing different games, you and I. I play base heat for speed. Artemis clears solo head in 1 second, and I can do it for both second and third solo head of Hydra.
turbid needle
I really with heat rooms would be more prominent, not only 1 per level
meh, for me solo head does nothing- easy to dodge and take down
what setup are you runinng?
have had moderate luck myself with poison adamant rail run
^
or doom/crit bow run
Flurry Fire is dangerous with Dionysus.
but prefer shield since when throwing out special, you dont have to worry much about aiming, and untill shield does its work, you can run around and kite, especially if you have a dash upgrade- ares or zeus
plucky oxide
"I play base heat for speed"
Damage is negligible when elimination times is what I'm focusing on. Though making sure to not break streak is a game in and of itself.
Shield allows you to bust out dps while kiting, yeah. Super good in heat runs, and just great for new players trying to get through base heat in general.
Poison adamant rail with empowering Q is nuts.
turbid needle
Had you finished 120 heat yet?
plucky oxide
Nah. Takes too much time. Trying to get 250 clears, 50 each with each weapon, before next update. Want to get 120 when full release is out, or whatever the last version is.
turbid needle
what weapon/keepsake are you using? which boons going for
Ok, just saying ''shield is good for newer players going though base heat'' kinda sounded elitist 😅 😂 on 120heat there is almost no option to stand still and attack, even less so going in melee
plucky oxide
It definitely is good for newer players, for the exact reasons you mentioned
Same with triple special rail
turbid needle
Bomb, dash, bomb, dash, bomb.
plucky oxide
Being able to focus on kiting and learn enemy patterns is like, the thing that players need to do really early on. It's harder to do when weapons lock you into place.
turbid needle
eh, enemies move too much for triple bomb to be too effective, only in tartarus
Maybe to cluster three on everything every time, but it's a pretty general DPS increase.
Sure, but thats not the reason why its used for high heat runs- the reason is that there is no time to stand still, know attack patterns or not- when being chased by 5lancers, aimed at by 3 bows all with armor, not gonna happen
For triple bomb, you have to stand in only place to use it three times
Gonna get shanked while doing that
plucky oxide
I didn't say triple bomb was used for high heat runs I was talking about base heat, and explaining why it's similar to shield's Q on base heat
turbid needle
I didnt say you did say that triple bomb is being used for high heat runs 😅
plucky oxide
What?
turbid needle
Im saying that there is a 3rd reason for shield special spam you arent seeing- just there physically not being enough time to use attack on any normal weapon
What?
For sake of experiment lets try 45% whipped frenzy
see how it goes
plucky oxide
I... completely agree that shield is amazing on heat. In no way was I comparing that triple bomb was as good as shield on high heat. You stated that I sounded elitist for saying shield is good for newer players, and I explained why I genuinely thought it was, touching on the same points you did and drawing a comparison to why it's also good in high heat. I went on to describe that triple bomb allows new players to do something similar. You went on to say that triple bomb isn't effective for high heat, and I explained I was simply talking about low heat, to agree with you.
turbid needle
50%*
Fair enough- i was trying to illustrate that there is a third point in using shield, which triple bomb doesnt allow fore
for*
plucky oxide
Shield is a one and done. It ricochets around and mob clears like crazy, yeah. You needn't even worry about aiming and enemy positioning to the same degree.
In 100% agreement on that one
turbid needle
nope, not happening
anyone using 50%frenzy is a mad man
instant regrets were had
In the end, tell me pause- what is your go to, or favorite setup?
plucky oxide
Changes! On a day to day basis. Depends on what I'm in the mood for. I think there's a lot of fun synergies in the game.
I think swords a lot of fun. Very kinetic. Mixing special and attack together, as well as using cast... it feels very whole.
turbid needle
Hmm, i wonder which is the best weapon for tenebrous veil- the most versitale one? probably dash boons
not a weapon though
what annoys me is that with tenebrous veil, it shows you the boons you can pick q.q would be better not to show and just offer 1 or 2
plucky oxide
RNG dependent as it is, tenebrious demands you get the most value out of as little selections as possible.
For me, it would be a matter of capitalizing on boons that offered as much bang for their buck as possible.
turbid needle
i dislike that pomegranate is also affected
plucky oxide
Hence shooting for two boons. Aphrodite and Ares, probably. For PS to trigger. And then anything else goes.
turbid needle
so the question remain- which is the weapon for which you can get the most upgrades
or for which the most boons are good
i think maybe rail or bow
plucky oxide
I think I'd still prefer shield on any form of heat, and if TV is in the mix, I'd just redo runs until I start with Ares special.
The problem with TV is that it subjects me to so much rng, I feel compelled to sacrifice until I get the best start that I can, and that's usually very against my 'take every run to the end' mentality
turbid needle
imho, the reroll option shouldnt be for rooms, but for boons themselves, when you are offered which to select
because when rerolling a room, you will always get hear room, at least form my experience
kind of defeats the whole ''randomness'' aspect
plucky oxide
If rerolls could do that... that'd be really awesome.
turbid needle
i reaaaaly miss extra greater reflex- being able to dash 3/4 times from start
plucky oxide
I kind of like the fact that I can reroll God boons into two other God boons. Gives me a lot of control over what my boon pool looks like.
And yeahhh
Dashes changes are... something I have mixed feelings about
turbid needle
you can reroll single boon into trial of gods?
plucky oxide
No, no
turbid needle
but i can see why- game would be really easy with 3 dashes from start
plucky oxide
Elite boon doors, like miniboss rooms, can reroll into two other gods
Artemis, ?, ?
turbid needle
Ah
plucky oxide
reroll
turbid needle
understandable
plucky oxide
Artemis, Ares, ?
reroll
Artemis, Ares, Athena
And then if you reroll again it gives you Ares!
turbid needle
With elite- you mean heat or just with skull on them?
plucky oxide
I mean a doorway that leads to miniboss rooms. The ones with gold laurels and a skull
turbid needle
ah, the ones you need heat for
plucky oxide
Murderboat, Asterius, Soul Catcher, Gorgon
turbid needle
ah ok
misunderstood
so regular skull ones
but man, you need about what- 125 000 darkness for all upgrades
how insane is that
or whatever was the number- for all the rerolls
plucky oxide
It's a good timesink. I think, as long as the gate is there, it stops a lot of players asking for more things to do with darkness.
I've seven, now. And the next gate is 20,000?
turbid needle
i have been just trading extra darkness in for keys and ambrosia
one of last ones is 50 000
plucky oxide
Haha, I do the opposite
turbid needle
keys for infernal troves, and ambrosia to get all conversations with all gods
have done every hell god and hell resident
still need to do olympians
and chaos
plucky oxide
Heat > anything else
Ambrosia > keys
Anything > darkness
turbid needle
i used to do opposite- give everything to darkness, until i was told how much all the re rolls will cost
plucky oxide
My philosophy is any amount counts. I'm the guy who wastes his coin on darkness in shops.
turbid needle
im a completionist, thats why im trying for 120 heat, but that grind is even over destiny or anthem tier grinding
plucky oxide
It's hard, yeah. I'm hoping the pact requirements and pools change a bit before final release.
Right now, I WANT to like whipped frenzy, but it's just so... overtuned.
turbid needle
I would go, if i would be about 7 years younger- right now i have a job and studying as a doctor 😅
so about 12h free each month for videogames
which isnt a lot
plucky oxide
Oof. That'll do it. Got a friend in the same boat.
turbid needle
god- makes me nostalgic, back in the day- league season 3, or xbox halo and cod. come from highschool, and just play and chill. not a care
plucky oxide
Part of why I like single player games is they aren't as Grindy as mmos. But then again I find myself playing this game more than I ever did dailies in MMOs, so I guess it's doing something right!
turbid needle
mmos or any multiplayer game takes A LOT of invested time for you to be able to compete with 10-15 year olds who can put 10hours a day into game
I mean- with age, you understand mechanics and min maxing better, but still takes time for specific muscle memory to take its place
plucky oxide
There also something nice about a carefully crafted narrative and pacing that allows you to digest it's content in a 10-30 minute window. Hades has really scratched that itch for me.
Transistor I played through like once or twice. Its crazy how the build variety in Hades has expanded its life for me. That, and the updates are always like a breath of fresh air.
turbid needle
When ill pass away, if i get sent to elysium, i hope that i will find there all the games, books and movies witch i have been putting off for ages. have a list of 100atm- doom 2016, FF XV, etc
Yeah. Cant wait untill next update
plucky oxide
Play doom. It's worth it! You probably already get that a lot but it's worth it :v
turbid needle
Although, i hope i will get to 120 heat before that, to get the statue. Got the 1st one from when hydra was the last boss
i did play it, about half way through, then biochemistry took over- that was 2 years ago 😄
plucky oxide
Good luck on the 120! You're already super close as it is. Shouldn't take you long. And you've got a month before the next update!
turbid needle
copied vega, returned to hell chasing that psychotic doctor, still remember
yeah 😅 the bad part is im being deployed in 15 days for 30 days, so either wont have enough time to get it, or wont see at all, depends
well, last try before sleep, see how it goes
elfin pulsar
if you want to play FFXV I highly recommend playing it on PC with the hard mode "mod"
a lot of the depth in that game is overshadowed by how insanely (like, nearly impossible to get a game over) easy it is
errant narwhal
#off-topic-discussion please! 🙏
elfin pulsar
Sorry, wanted to throw my two cents in since the other guy mentioned doom
rotund knot
hmm
should i apply for early access
though that'll also mean i'll have to download epic
hmm
atomic panther
Early Access isn't an application, you just have to buy the game from the epic games launcher
turbid needle
daddydegrand What were your boons?
@rotund knot Once you purchase Hades, it can be run without accessing the EGS at all. You'll still need to launch it for updates, but otherwise it's completely DRM-free.
wheat elbow
@turbid needle I posted the video in #self-promotion as usual
You would think that the 3 olympian god boons I received would be some kind of special
and you would be wrong
One was actually just pretty bad, all things considered.
rugged apex
the real trick is to lock the boon pool into A+++, so you're always being offered boons from the gods you want(ares, artemis, aphrodite, athena)
wheat elbow
No, man, you don't understand
I legitimately only took 3 god boons in total
(of two different gods)
rugged apex
that's sort of like locking the boon pool.
wheat elbow
Then the two of us have a different idea of boob pool locking.
pastel jolt
hehehehehehehehehehehehe
rugged apex
charming theseus and asterius into fighting each other is incredibly funny
hollow minnow
Halp halp, any tips for 120 Heat with Shield?!!? I'm in the depths of despair! I can do 75 Heat, almost do 81, but 120 is impossible!!!! 😦 You basically have to have everything maxed out!!! How do you not get hit?! I loath Vicious Torment but on the other hand it's either that or Stifling Darkness, which is just as bad!!! Arrrrggggggg I can't even make it past Tartarus!!!
💔 😭
rugged apex
the biggest are the death defiances and the extra dash, imo
wheat elbow
You still have 500 Darkness, that let's you buy the dash, some of the extra lifes and some other extras.
turbid needle
The damage rework (including changing crits to only be +200% damage) really kinda nerfed them.
At least, it nerfed Boiling Blood hard.
turbid needle
So there's been some talk of changing the Heroes boss fight award once biome 4 comes out, right?
pastel jolt
i mean, feedback has been left
turbid needle
Right. I meant among the laypeople.
rugged apex
...maybe a boon from a god of your choice?
pastel jolt
......the laypeople?
turbid needle
Upgrading one of your Epic Boons to Heroic?
Laypeople being us fans who don't actually control what ends up in the game proper.
thin jetty
Yeah, the mods are all volunteers!
atomic panther
As great and powerful as Sparrow is, they're only mortal (so far as I can tell)
turbid needle
I know that. I don't think I'm articulating what I mean properly.
thin jetty
Gotcha. All good!
turbid needle
Like Sparrow's gonna show up one day and actually be Hermes. "Love what you did with all of us, boss, here's some ambrosia."
pastel jolt
listen, listen, as a goof i once made a photoshop edit that put 🐦 in as a god boon icon like 
and then suddenly hermes has an orange wing as his symbol......... i'm onto you sgg...........
atomic panther
If they're Hermes, we'd be giving them Ambrosia
pastel jolt
errant narwhal
Hambrosia if you will
turbid needle
I've had some hamburgers that I was convinced had some ambrosia mixed in one of the ingredients.
turbid needle
Epic Level 3 Tipsy Shot. Scintillating Feast. Flurry Fire. Blight Strike. Deadly Flourish. Hunter's Mark. Pressure Points. Asterius and Theseus never stood a chance.
This game is so much fun.
rugged apex
me @ game: "give me the horrifying overpowered build"
game: "would you like aphrodite to offer you everything that doesn't count towards curse of longing"
it's absolutely fair but also please I want to absolutely destroy some stuff
pastel jolt
oh, artemis likes pulling that one on me
"what's that? you're aiming for support fire? how about i offer you every single cast boon instead?"
hollow minnow
☝
wheat elbow
Boiling Blood was always the inferior one
Privileged status is still pretty great because it also increases damage of secondary effects like sick
which you need to get it active in the first place.
hushed ledge
for anyone who isn't aware, you can buffer an immediate dash attack out of nova strike by dashing, using nova strike and then immediately pressing attack after you input nova strike
cold oriole
so uh
does fated authority actually have an end
or am i chasing an impossible to finish mirror lol
trim ingot
it maxes out at 10
atomic panther
10 rerolls, 165k darkness total
turbid needle
Epic Tempest Strike, Dashing Wallop, and Rare Flayed Strike for 52% on the way. Shield is easy mode.
turbid needle
Ayyy, new best clear time for shield.
finite grail
shield can be difficult to clear with, good job
last tide
Did Artemis Dash Atack boon doesn't work with +100% powershoot boon from Daedalus upgrade for bow intentionally or it's a bug?
*intentional
pastel jolt
i mean, there’s nothing to suggest they shouldn’t work together. you absolutely can still do a powershot with dash attack
vale sphinx
Is it just me being clumsy or are ||Hermes’ reflex buffs|| really really difficult to use? I always get hit in the ||dash pause because it’s so insanely long|| , it’s almost a run - killing debuff to me lmao
lost rose
You don't need to spoiler tag here! just fyi
errant narwhal
i dont think he counts as a spoiler either way haha
but yeah, mechanical and gameplay spoilers are allowed here, but not story spoilers
wheat elbow
MAJOR HADES STORY SPOILER!
Hades, Zeus and Poseidon are brothers
Have I ruined your evening yet?
green birch
😱
wheat elbow
I always feel weird meeting Aphrodite,
but then you remember that she is Zagreus cousin.
sly dirge
Already have a strange run of zeus, ares, and dionysus boons. This will be weird to work with
Jeez I didn't realize me bladed butterfly was giving me a 17.5% attack power boost. That would explain why the hydra was so easily killed this run
unkempt pagoda
@sly dirge report bugs ingame with 
wheat elbow
@sly dirge Ares and Dionysus together is usually enough to carry all by themselves
sly dirge
Yah I noticed when I killed asterius and theseus in record time
I would post a screen shot of the results screen, but I didn't take a picture 
wheat elbow
The two of them give you huge extra damage + 2 debuffs for pref status
It's a match made in heaven
Aphrodite is in the same camp while having the added benefit of having duo boons with both Dionysus and Ares
The three of them form quite the dynamic duo
*trio
sly dirge
My luck causes me to almost never see two of these gods in the same run, and I have never seen all three in one run.
wheat elbow
You can engineer that with keepsakes if you really want to
rugged apex
starting with ares makes athena and artemis more likely to appear - especially athena, actually.
sly dirge
I tend to not use the keepsakes which always causes certain gods to spawn. I stick with keepsakes that boost stats or other things like the pierced butterfly, the forgotton memento, or the skull earing
wheat elbow
@rugged apex Does it really? Is that hard coded into the game?
@sly dirge It only has a higher chance to replace one boon
I experience it quite often that I take a keepsake and only ever meet said god once
rugged apex
well, sort of - each god has a pool of 'compatible' gods, and it's very rare to get gods outside that pool
or somesuch - basically, certain gods mean you meet other certain gods more often
wheat elbow
That might explain why I don't see Poseidon all that much
Not liking that rule, I have to say
sly dirge
@rugged apex I only saw athena and artimis once during my last run, however that might have been because of the fact I had 2 boons from zeus
rugged apex
oh, it's not 100%
wheat elbow
Zeus has a duo boon with Artemis and they also have some synergies with one anotzher
rugged apex
but it's definitely there
wheat elbow
I'd be surprised if that'd be a bad synergy by the games standards
rugged apex
it's part duo boons and part something else - I keep seeing poseidon when I have ares+athena+aphrodite and he doesn't have synergy with any of them
sly dirge
It would explain why I so rarely see dionysus, as the gods I chose most likely cause him to become a rarer occurence.
wheat elbow
I feel like I meet Dionysus all the time
sly dirge
It would also explain why I see athena almost every run
wheat elbow
and usually, I am happy about it because he is A-amazing
At the moment, I'd say that Ares, Dionysus and Aphrodite are the gods I meet the most
which I am super fine with for the most part.
Aphrodite has no bad boons, Dionysus has mostly good boons and synergizes well with a lot of gods and Ares, he is amazing if you meet him all the time or just once or twice
sly dirge
I have mixed feelings about how aphrodite's boons work. While weakness does lower the damage enemies do while afflicted, it causes at least me to get sloppy.
wheat elbow
That is always a trap when it comes to these things
It still increases your own damage substancially by the big added damage + being a debuff for prefered status.
Aphrodite is also the only goddess whom's cast applies a status right off the bat
sly dirge
Well there are currently only three gods which cause status effects. Ares with his doom, Aphrodite with her weakness and charm, and Dionysus with his blight and daze.
atomic panther
Every god (except maybe Hermes? I don't know if his slow counts) has a status effect
wheat elbow
Yes, but only Ares, Dionysus and Aphrodite get theirs with one boon only
All others have to use at least two boons
one for the attack, one for the status
sly dirge
The only god which does not have a status effect attached to their boons at all is Chaos, and that is because of how their boons work.
trim ingot
does hermes's slow count towards priv status?
wheat elbow
I never tested it but I don't think it does
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/596102171829993495/unknown.png
Just beat the Hydra without taking damage for my first time :D
This is the highest I've stacked Butterfly yet, time to see how well it can carry me through Elysium
It's up to 50 now. This is ridiculous
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/596107518414028821/unknown.png
I only got it up to 50, but that's still 7.5% more than I've reached before
I had SO MANY buffs for my special
plucky oxide
Butterfly + Rail Empowering Special for that sweet sweet 150% bonus to your sick damage
atomic panther
Sadly didn't get empowering blast, but I did have Heavy Slug for Maximum Damage™
meager oriole
how do you take screenshots?
lost rose
F11
meager oriole
thanks
last tide
"Did Artemis Dash Atack boon doesn't work with +100% powershoot boon from Daedalus upgrade for bow intentionally or it's a bug?"
What I mean with this is, the extra damage from dash attack didn't calculate to the powershot
So I have 125% dash attack and 100% powershot, when I powershot, I don't get the extra 125%, only the 100%
trim ingot
maybe the time it takes to powershoot is longer than the dash attack window?
lost rose
nah, the powershot charge speeds up when you dash attack
trim ingot
🤔
wheat elbow
@atomic panther That's pretty huge!
hushed ledge
I feel like higher rarities of Ares special boons might be a bit overtuned
wheat elbow
Silly you, Hades doesn't hand out boons
Tried pierced butterfly on a 40 Heat Frenzy run
Managed to get it to 35%
hushed ledge
hades really hurts my hands because i dash so often 😦
but i'm fairly sure its correct
there's no real reason to ever leave dash
pure fox
feeling lucky and unlucky at the same time on this run... equipped athena's keepsake in elysium and only get 1 hermes boon up to hydra and get like x3 athena room back to back in elysium 😂
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/487892582870024201/596304945712726037/Hades_00993.png
wheat elbow
@hushed ledge By Hades, you mean Chaos, is that right?
hushed ledge
I should do that but it feels wrong
wheat elbow
Simply because that is how I was used to dodge rolling with RMB from playing Enter The Gungeon
hushed ledge
And I'm not convinced spamming RMB will be much better but it'll be a tad hopefully
Because like dashing isn't dodge rolling
wheat elbow
What is dash natuarrly tied to, space?
wheat elbow
Space is my castz and I feel pretty good about that
hushed ledge
Honestly it probably should be on space because it's something you basically need to rhythmically hit constantly
Taptap, taptap. Taptap
wheat elbow
I like dash and attack on the mouse because it makes brain-handling dash attacks a bit more simple to me
hushed ledge
I'm super fine with dash attacks
I've been doing them since day 1
Hell, I only do them basically
Because well you don't really get a chance to do much else
I guess shield gets to DA+swing 1
But DA is good because you get to dash
And dashing is broken
The only time dashing isn't busted is on fights like hydra where there's enough random projectiles you'll actually be punished for it
For anyone who hasn't, try a run where you only stop dashing if you need to (block with shield, safe spot by standing still) or if you have a stunlock, and just mix in dash attacks and specials and see how you go
atomic panther
The highest I've gotten Lambent Plume is 26% (13 stacks at rank 2, I don't know how much it stacks at rank 3) but I also had +27% dodge chance from the Hermes boon so I had 53% dodge chance (I missed the stack on Meg by less than a second and I'm still mad about it)
hushed ledge
Each level of plume is a large difference over the previous it's nuts
atomic panther
Yeah, wow
hushed ledge
Imo at about 10% or so the plume starts to pull it's weight at least slightly
Although my rating of it is going down the lower I start to value move speed
Because at some point dodge is just dr and it's hard to stack it high enough
wheat elbow
I uploaded a run today where I got it to 40%
Felt pretty good
sadly no dodge chance as a boon from Mercury on top of that
Anyone got any tips on how to deal with spear heroes on a frenzy run with the sword?
They were legitimately attacking me fast enough to catch me in between all of my animations
crimson geyser
Kinda surprised to see all these keyboard any mouse players, any other controller players out there?
pastel jolt
✋
crimson geyser
🙌
I thought that was a high five lol
Also I just barely managed to beat Theseus for the first time last night, got all my darkness perks maxed except the last 3 were still locked so I'm not hurting for stats, I think. Point of that is I maybe kinda suck lol so the pact of punishment scares me lol, what would y'all say are some of the most benign ...clauses?..?
sly dirge
I have to play with a controller as I am unable to play well otherwise. I don't understand how someone could chain dash-cancel or combo well with the keyboard controls.
turbid needle
I've actually done some remapping.
Attack and Special are M1 and 2.
Cast is Shift, Dash is Space.
And I rebound Exagryph reload to a mouse thumb button.
I didn't ever want to take my hand off WASD if enemies were about.
Aiming sometimes can be annoying (given the whole "aim at their feet"), but it's nice whenever I get Triple Bomb.
turbid needle
Apparently Theseus can block Blight Dash.
hot prism
Shields are ridiculous in this game.
shrewd veldt
Does anyone have builds that aren't super hand-crampy AOE button mashers?
rugged apex
bow and rail are usually somewhat slower, if that helps - rail special is especially less mash-y.
shrewd veldt
I was originally building around the throwing shield and happy with that pace, a similar pace to bastion. before i realised I could just spam dash attacks then that became my default and it doesn't really feel like the intended experience
@rugged apex do you use the charge attack on the bow or the 'fan of knives'?
I found the special to be similarly crampy
rugged apex
both/either - main attack is still dash-heavy, but it's less mashy than sword or shield
special is slow enough that mashing it doesn't actually do anything, but that might need you to adjust a bit
median ridge
i remapped the special to shift
rugged apex
...that's a good idea, I should do that.
shrewd veldt
Yeah i remap special to X a lot
trim ingot
i almost always do special runs....
shrewd veldt
I'm finding that the way I'm approaching hades is faster and more aggressive than previous games mostly due to stacking the boons on top of specials. I don't ever really have time to read or predict enemy attacks
trim ingot
that's kinda how a lot of roguelites go
rugged apex
killing foes is the best way to not have to worry about their attacks
shrewd veldt
okay, this is the first roguelike I've sunk any real time into so good to know
I expect BoI was similar
trim ingot
i guess armour is supposed to prevent you from ohkoing everything at least
rugged apex
it does, but only up to a point.
trim ingot
boi gives you way less hp leeway
shrewd veldt
Poseidon seems to tear through armor pretty quick, and there are boons to do 100% damage against armor
trim ingot
and the isometric perspective isn't suited for the kind of pixel perfect dodging there
right now i still find myself consistently losing about 30 hp per elysium chamber
buying every healing item i come across is enough to compensate for it though
seems like a lot of healing
shrewd veldt
yeah that doesn't seem like the intended experience either
trim ingot
for a roguelike it is very generous with hp
shrewd veldt
I was big on the black shawl for a long time but it started to become less useful at higher levels and I'm not sure what to replace it with
getting good, i guess
I want to use the feather duster but it's not the best, a little bit of life-steal on a boon would help but probably become OP
trim ingot
yeah there used to be life steal it was patched out
shrewd veldt
bone hourglass would be the next best thing i guess
trim ingot
or just take straight up damage reduction keepsakes
wheat elbow
Bone hour glass is amazing after the first floor imo
trim ingot
mmm 5 chamber hydralite
trim ingot
-fans self-
wheat elbow
Hydralite, Lamias together give you insane HP regen from room to room, which is really nice
Bone Hour Glass becomes better if you have a cast heavy build because you can also buy additional shots and more cast damage too
trim ingot
tbh? the well of charon has better stuff than charon's shop
wheat elbow
Yes and no. The stuff you get from the well is pretty much exclusive to the well, which is interesting on it's own.
plucky oxide
Taking achilles' bracer will reduce that 30 hp you've been dealing with every Elysium chamber by up to 40%
wheat elbow
Everything Charon sells himself vould also be a regular room drop
trim ingot
the 30 hp is with achilles's bracer
plucky oxide
Oof
trim ingot
i gotta git gud
plucky oxide
Enemy attack patterns in Elysium are strange in comparison to previous floors, but still learnable
wheat elbow
I mean, there is a difference between "patterns"
trim ingot
shieldbois are the worst
wheat elbow
and Spear Idiots killing you dead without much option to retaliate
trim ingot
i get hit by traps a lot but that's something i can learn
wheat elbow
The shield idiots are annoying to kill, but damage wise, they are managable
The spear heroes just outright kill you once you even got remotely into their range
plucky oxide
It's less about when spears are doing something and more about knowing when they won't do something.
Using traps in Elysium is also hugely advantageous, whereas its often highly situational in the previous two floors.
trim ingot
elysium trap kills are great
plucky oxide
The fact that they regen in Elysium, even pillars, is insane value.
wheat elbow
I don't know, man
trim ingot
dealing with exploding kittens is also risky for me
wheat elbow
The only time spear idiots arfen#t doing anything is only when I am not there.
trim ingot
i try to just dash around and lead them to crash into walls
but yakety sax moments aren't much fun
plucky oxide
Kittens are where most of my health chips away in Elysium. It's just the sheer volume of them that makes it easy to slip up once or twice, especially when fighting other foes.
wheat elbow
I agree, though certain boons have an easier time dealing with them.
shrewd veldt
you can get them with a doom attack or a deflect
plucky oxide
Aye, some negate their effects entirely
trim ingot
what if you're all melee though
plucky oxide
But I often find myself 'slipping up', because on one run, they're negligible, and then on another OOPS I got chained for two kittens because I thought my dash would actually get me out of there
shrewd veldt
I've brought deflect into every build now, especially on the dash it's really useful
wheat elbow
Yeah, the suicidewheels are a paradigm shift every run
I feel like that is one of the best and worst things about Elysium.
It keeps the experience fresh by forcing you to attune yourself to the current gamestate
on the other hand, some configurations are just frustrating
plucky oxide
I'd say Elysium feels pretty good as it stands right now. Maybe a few more levels to spice up how I deal with these threats.
Something I'm not a fan of is casts being lobbed out into the void.
At least in Asphodel I can zip zap over into lava to retrieve my stones while taking negligible damage.
Though, to be fair, it is the next logical step of punishment
wheat elbow
Gotta say, I never experienced that problem
trim ingot
they fall into the river?
wheat elbow
Either because I never threw my casts out there or because I managed to finish a room before it became a problem
plucky oxide
Casts only fly past opponents if they are the lethal damage.
If an enemy dies, and it wasn't the cast that killed them, then they drop by the slain foes side.
So when doing rail empowering special cast runs, where I try and get Big Numbers out of my cast, the casts can often just go flying past them and into the smoky bits, where the pull range can't be reached
wheat elbow
(another reason to love Aphrodite by the well. Her cast droplets are so beautifully predicatble and convenient
plucky oxide
They're so goooood. Aphro cast best cast.
Had an epic Aphro run with auto-fire, and all Artemis cast enabling boons the other day.
That base damage is absolutely insane. I feel like it was a little better balanced when the distance away from Zag had damage falloff
wheat elbow
I believe I have one of those on my youtube channel as well
500 Aphro casts against bosses
close to 600
It's ridiculous
trim ingot
i watched that it was nuts
plucky oxide
Currently, the very tip of Aphro's wave does the same damage as the volley directly in front of you.
wheat elbow
@trim ingot My man!
Yeah, I remember when it used to be six individual instances of damage
That wasn't even the bad part. It was just so small of an area
plucky oxide
The jump between Aphro cast being slow frames but good damage up close to fast frames and good damage anywhere in its range was absolutely massive. That was when Hermes was introduced, and he also added the rapid fire. Talk about a buff
wheat elbow
And "bad" deserves to be said in moderation here
Even before the buff, Aphro cast was the only cast in the game that applied a status effect all by itself
plucky oxide
The worst part about her cast used to be its wind up time. It was always good damage.
wheat elbow
That can't be said too often, it's a huge deal
plucky oxide
Mhm mhm. It's v v choice.
It's a tough decision, getting and epic Aphro dash and an epic Aphro cast as your first choice.
wheat elbow
Aphrodite does that a lot
She is the best goddess in the game right now imo
simply because she pretty much has no bad boons
plucky oxide
Agreed!
wheat elbow
All of her boons are almost always a medium to big improvement on your run
I had three boons on her that I used to not like, her cast, her wrath and her legendary
yet look at me now
loving all those
trim ingot
i've never taken her wrath bc i thought bosses are immune
plucky oxide
S: Aphro
A+: Dio + Ares
B+: Athena + Artemis + Zeus
B-: Poseidon
All gods can excel. But Aphro takes you farthest, fastest
Hermes and Chaos not included because they're Different
trim ingot
they're very luck dependent
trim ingot
do you get something that complements your build or do you get uuuuh some extra health
wheat elbow
I'd probably put Athena and Artemis into a Tier below Zeus
trim ingot
i really like athena wrath now
wheat elbow
Athena Wrath is decent and becomes great if you have a strong, glass cannony run especially
trim ingot
its effectiveness scales with your strength
wheat elbow
Bingo
trim ingot
other wraths are just mostly flat damage
plucky oxide
Zeus on his own, like, a single visit, isn't exactly the most enabling. I think heavy investment in him can see crazy amounts of damage from unique sources, yes. And each boon helps to build upon the last. But I'm taking into consideration how fast they enable builds as well. For instance: Seeing Zeus attack halfway through Asphodel with a different build is not something I'm likely to take in any scenario unless I'm ready to start investing in Zeus.
wheat elbow
Here is trhe thing though:
Almost every case, the same is true for Artemis
the difference is that Zeus isn't reliant on RNG
And that his boons aren't as spread out
With Artemis, you get crit related or cast related stuff
with Zeus, it is just damage that will lead to a debuff for sure
He is more reliable overall
plucky oxide
Artemis has an entire category of skills that purely affect casts. The amount of times I go to Artemis with any variety of cast runs is insane.
wheat elbow
(both have 3 duo boons, which is a neat bonus)
plucky oxide
With rank B or below, I have to invest in at least one boon from that God in order to see their debuff. His debuff is easy to secure, yes, but again, I still have to invest in Zeus to start seeing Zeus pay off. Athena and Artemis offer far more value to me later in the game for this very reason. An additional death defy + unique trigger? Sure! More casts? Yes please! If I was looking for a second debuff to trigger PS, there are three gods in that roster that make the choice incredibly easy.
wheat elbow
Zeus can give you the debuff after almost every first boon he can give you
The only exception is......I don't think there even is one.
Artemis can only give you the debuff after having taken something crit related from her
Attack, Special or the blanket crit chance
That makes for a foundation of only 3 boons out of a very large initial boon pool that is inflated by all the cast boons
And even if you do get marked, you are still being tied down to RNG
Also, and this is just my opnion, Crit does not fit well on most weapons, Zeus is much more user and weapon friendly in that regard
plucky oxide
Gotta disagree on that one. Crit is insane value. Just makes you have to get into the headspace of reacting to your own damage sources. So much so that a single crit boon from artemis is enough to start seeing that value.
But thats a matter of taste. Regardless, the ability to find a status condition is easiest for Zeus, then Poseidon + Athena, then Artemis. The ability to find unique boons that accelerate builds without massive investment is Artemis, Athena, Poseidon, and Zeus. The two cancel each other out. The only reason Poseidon isn't with the trio is because boss battles tend to be the 'Skill Gates' required to pass, and the biggest bonus he offers is massively penalized in these scenarios. To me, the value found in Zeus' debuff being slightly easier to secure is still massive in comparison to the two boon investment needed to begin with.
If I'm running the four out of the seven gods that need two boons, I should have their debuff. By that logic, the value found in going for a single boon debuff god is astronomically higher than aiming for one from the rest of the cast. If I'm running Ares, Aphro, or Dio, then I have two superior options left, and four other investments to pick between. In this scenario, the value of Zeus is slightly higher, but again, if I'm picking Zeus its all-or-nothing on the guy, and the later I make this choice, the less value I am pulling from the god due to his snowballing-value.
It averages out in my eyes. It feels weird giving Zeus a higher pedestal than two gods that offer just as much value, however different that value might be.
crimson geyser
I credit aphro cast as being the main factor to finally let me best Theseus
plucky oxide
The sound effect is also very nice. I love lobbing it out.
crimson geyser
I had the weak-might-charm effect, and I'm pretty sure I had a decent amount of crit bonuses from artie, and I know I had a bunch of dodge chance since I was running lambent plume and got extra dodge from a boon at least once
I think that was all significant
Zeus cast used to be my fav before that run
turbid needle
I still think Artemis is in contention for best Boons. She's got the best Duo Boon in the game, Hunting Blades, and her big spread of cast-enhancing Boons not only amplifies that, but any Cast build.
I got Rapid Cast on Shatter Shot, but the build didn't really take off until I got Quick Reload and Exit Wounds.
Also I'm on a Double Nova Deadly Flourish build right now and it's crazy.
Absolutely bonkers crowd control and single target DPS.
plucky oxide
double nova, though, is incredibly, incredibly powerful.
trim ingot
any god is potentially good if you invest fully, flexibility is a factor as well
turbid needle
This is true.
plucky oxide
definitely. no one is C tier. There's no 'average' boon. All can excel.
trim ingot
aphrodite wins on that front
turbid needle
On what front?
plucky oxide
Aphro works on anyone. At any time. The value is insane.
trim ingot
best for randomly picking up once or twice in a run
plucky oxide
Weakness on all sources of damage, meaning a single boon investment is all thats needed to help trigger PS. Her dash is best at this, but using it on attack or special (whichever one your main source of damage isnt coming from) is absolutely nuts. Then theres the weakness itself, which offers significant value due to how long it lasts, and how much of a difference it can make. Often times, its a major factor in the early development of my build's defense.
Is my current defense enough with weakness? Is a thought that often passes through my head when choosing early defensive boons.
Her cast is the best cast in the game, applying both weakness and a massive amount of damage very quickly. While close range, a missed cast is easy to pick back up, ensuring high up time on dishing out damage.
Whereas the % values from her boons were okay before, now they're much better. Marked status from Artemis means the value from your stacked crit boons arent wasted when reapplying Aphro. Even better, the fact that her status can be triggered from her dash means that the constant reapplication of the status is something innate to how melee players are forced to play. This is something shared with Dio's dash as well.
Her supplementary boons are also a source of incredible value. Additional damage to weakened enemies supports any build, and the reduced damage from nearby targets is even more defense.
In other words, with aphro, your builds go a lot farther, without a lot of investment.
wheat elbow
Another thing to make note off
The gods that we agreed on to be the best
Aphro, Ares and Dionysus
also all work together super nicely
turbid needle
Wait, Dio?
plucky oxide
Dio and Ares are personally valued as better than the rest of the cast as well for similar reasons. I really like taking Ares with Artemis when doing double nova runs, as throwing it on your attack allows you to accrue PS and a huge spike to your dps, making the most out of Artemis special downtime. Throwing dash with Aphro? Icing on the cake.
trim ingot
ares cast on its own with no upgrades is meh
turbid needle
Of course.
wheat elbow
Absolutely
plucky oxide
yes, but its a case of high investment, high reward. Ares casts can win runs with proper investment. But its doom where Ares' value really shines.
wheat elbow
His dash and his wrath as well
Blade rifts become a little bit more interesting once you get the boon that makes them absorb enemies and ridiculous once you get Ares' legendary
But those two are aspects that can be hard to invluence.
plucky oxide
Niche as Ares and Dio's casts are, they have their own value. It's just not as insane as they immediate bonuses coming from their attack and special.
wheat elbow
I do value Dios Cast over Ares' though
plucky oxide
Aphro, alone, amongst the entire cast, offers her status to you through every base boon. The value is her baseline, and the odds are mitigated greatly because of this.
wheat elbow
More reliable to use, higher burst and AoE damage and the cloud is soft CC
plucky oxide
Dio's doesnt require investment, yeah
plucky oxide
Its a good source of flat damage, and helps enable a lot of play
Ares cast is high risk, high reward, making the game trivial by the end if successful.
wheat elbow
Dio/Zeus duo boon is one of the most satisfying to use imo
and it synergizes amazingly with Dios legendary
turbid needle
Scintillating Feast is top 5 Duo, change my mind.
plucky oxide
Did they add a particle effect for the duo boon effect yet?
turbid needle
Though I wish the cloud wasn't so dense.
wheat elbow
You can see lightning in the cloud if that is what you mean
@turbid needle That's true.
plucky oxide
Played a Dio cast run last night! Had artemis' double-cast. Now every cloud blinds! Yay!
Who needs to see when everything is obliterated!
wheat elbow
At the moment, Sea Storm because it does not proc on bosses at all for no reason
and because it sometimes won't proc on regular enemies for no reason either
If those two would not be the case, sea storm would be a-amazinz
trim ingot
if bosses can be ruptured i don't sea why it can't proc on bosses
wheat elbow
Another aspect as for why sea storm is bad is the fact that it is Poseidons only duo doon
trim ingot
..........i didn't mean to type sea
turbid needle
mischief time Booooo.
plucky oxide
Not a big fan of freak accident, but thats only because its kind of niche
turbid needle
Zeus/Artemis.
atomic panther
Artemis/Zeus. Your crits cause lightning bolts
wheat elbow
Oh yeah
turbid needle
I wish the lightning bolt hit harder.
plucky oxide
the bolts do 20 damage :/
wheat elbow
That one is basically sea storm except that it works
atomic panther
Yeah :/
trim ingot
when your crits can do a cheeky 500 an extra 20 is laughable
wheat elbow
The lightning bolt damage isn't the interesting part, it's the fact that those lightning bolds enable the entire zeus engine
plucky oxide
Sea storm does 40, and doesnt need crit to proc :/
turbid needle
Freak Accident was alright before Hunter's Mark was nerfed, and I got a Hunting Blades run. Three casts were enough to take Asterius from half to a quarter.
wheat elbow
The thing with Freak Accident is that between Marked and the flat crit buff, you can have the lightning proc on pretty much everythingh
I had one run with freak accident + blade rift dash and Artemis' crit chances
trim ingot
oof i just thought of something wrt that reverse duo idea in suggestions
wheat elbow
Blade rift would trigger it so often
plucky oxide
enabling high crit and a lot of zeus boons is whats so niche about the boon. that, and you also need a fast attacking weapon to make the most bang out of your buck
atomic panther
Sea Storm could proc on literally every hit, and deals twice as much
trim ingot
you could potentially chain duos or even set up a feedback loop
plucky oxide
marked getting consumed on crit instead of reapplying ; . ;7
turbid needle
Look, let's just all admit that Freak Accident is a "There's nothing better" boon.
Those were the days, Pause.
plucky oxide
its not bad. its just not amazing in every scenario
turbid needle
Right after I discovered Hunting Blades, too.
I still pick up Hunter's Mark almost every time I see it.
trim ingot
yeah i think more duos should be like hunting blades that makes a sort of unique hybrid attack
so it's not all when effect x happens effect y happens
plucky oxide
hunting blades was a retrofitted normal boon, if i recall
atomic panther
It was, yes
wheat elbow
Hunting Blades should have just been Ares regular legendary imo.
plucky oxide
there was the sucking ability, and the seeking ability. and then they buffed the seeking and turned it into its own duo
wheat elbow
(the current legendary is OP as hell)
plucky oxide
ares currently legendary is nuts, and does too much. i'd rather see some of that value bleed down into base ares cast.
trim ingot
the beauty of hunting blades AND ares legendary
turbid needle
mischief time 100 damage ticks.
plucky oxide
if they applied curse, then the boon that increases the damage of your next curse every time its hit with a curse enabled ability would spike in value
trim ingot
maybe a new effect not doom
plucky oxide
deflect 🤔
pastel jolt
i feel like nobody is ever going to be happy no matter what ares' legendary is, at this point
trim ingot
i was thinking like, reduce ares legendary and put some of that value in a tier 2 status boon
unkempt pagoda
ares legendary should be him fanboying over war every 30 seconds
plucky oxide
what was Ares' original legendary? The suck-in effect?
pastel jolt
yup
plucky oxide
I find it weird that it was cast-enabling. I mean, it still is. Is there any other legendary with such niche usage?
trim ingot
does anybody really use athena legendary
turbid needle
I like it.
plucky oxide
it hasnt been offered to me in forever
turbid needle
It's useful enough when it shows up but I never shoot for it like I do Zeus.
trim ingot
oh wait poseidon's legendary is the most useless duh
plucky oxide
you need brilliant repost for athena's.
wheat elbow
Give Poseidon a duo boon with Athena and one with Dionysus#
trim ingot
that might have changed
plucky oxide
it would be neat to eventually have a duo boon for every combo
trim ingot
call it sea sickness 
plucky oxide
but its called poison now :V
wheat elbow
@plucky oxide The game would need a huge difficulty push with that I feel
unkempt pagoda
the pun is worth it
plucky oxide
I mean, the difficulty of the game isnt set in stone. We still have another biome ahead of us.
trim ingot
nvm i want a wine dark sea reference
trim ingot
-homer intensifies-
wheat elbow
Sea Sickness is amazing. Knock back causing sickness is also pretty much perfect I'd say
unkempt pagoda
actually.
plucky oxide
dio for the best names
unkempt pagoda
maybe they should do something like sunken treasure
wheat elbow
and hear me out on this one
A duo boon that super charges a wrath effect
because we do not have that yet.
(Sea storn surprisingly comes close)
unkempt pagoda
you get like 5 ambrosias, you need to get the max health up boon from dio first
trim ingot
a boon that lets you charge wrath while wrath is active
plucky oxide
wrath seems so hard to balance
what with one of them literally making you invincible
wheat elbow
@trim ingot That's one for the feedback channel
trim ingot
obviously scale down the wrath gain during wrath if it's broken
eh i'm just making stuff up for fun
plucky oxide
smaller wrath effects that happened more frequently are something I'd like to see, but that goes against the very design of Big Action Hero Moment they've built up
trim ingot
i would like to see one god become the wrath specialty god, same way artemis is the cast god
with a bunch of wrath related stuff
plucky oxide
problem is, what would they give you if you don't have a wrath yet?
someone mentioned early that they'd like to choose a wrath at the very start. idk, wraths are weird.
trim ingot
i'm thinking just make it zeus but expanding his boon pool too much would be a pain
errant narwhal
I like it
unkempt pagoda
only reason to take poseidon
wheat elbow
I hate it because 9 out of 10 cases, it is a wasted boon slot
turbid needle
It's alright when you're low on HP.
errant narwhal
if I get a Poseidon boon but I don’t like any of the others, I’ll take it
plucky oxide
Incredibly. High. Value.
But only for new players who dont have a lot of darkness yet
unkempt pagoda
poseidon offers nothing else besides ocean's bounty imo
errant narwhal
and I usually don’t like any of the others
plucky oxide
That's 50-100 darkness. Negligible to most, but an entire mirror upgrade to those who don't have it invested.
errant narwhal
except for the dash, pretty cool
wheat elbow
I never have gotten that much darkness out5 of him
errant narwhal
I almost won with the dash as my primary attack once
wheat elbow
The money is okay but not overwhelming, the health can be neat but in a poerfect world you won't need it
it doesn't say so but rarely, it can contain an ambrosia bottle
pastel jolt
not every run is a perfect world though
trim ingot
early game you're more bottlenecked by keys than darkness
plucky oxide
Obols awarded: 50-70
Health Awarded: 1-3 items
Darkness Awarded: 50-100
Chance of Ambrosia: 10%
Its like the, 'meh, i guess I'll take the 'other room reward' all at the same time' option
trim ingot
super sisyphus