h1-builds-and-combat

[sonic lance]

what're the strongest wep aspects in the game

[tight basin]

beowulf lmao

[sonic lance]

iirc were hera bow / eris rail op

[tight basin]

best for speedrunning bc of insane damage and aoe, one of the best for heat bc it's a shield and good aoe

[tight basin]

both are also good, they kinda just don't compare to beowulf

the stuff hera is really good at, beowulf generally does better

but hera has held the world record for speed for a good chunk of time

still very good

eris is a lot easier to play than the other two, but the damage caps out earlier than hera and beowulf

a lot of people getting into speedrunning tend to start at eris bc it's more well known as being good at speed and a lot more straight forward

[sonic lance]

oh eris is easier hmm

beowulf seems to be hidden n idk abt revealing it yet

[tight basin]

eris isn't really hammer reliant to get a decent time as a beginner (ofc rocket bomb into cluster bomb is very ideal)

beowulf kinda just... doesn't feel great without charged shot lmao

[sonic lance]

the other two r ?

ic

[tight basin]

hera also doesn't need a hammer but imo it's the hardest to play well compared to the other two

[jolly chasm]

More of a Croven thing tbh

[tight basin]

esp if you're on kbm

[tight basin]

i mean true but also hera is still one of the best for speed

[jolly chasm]

Ye

Def true

[tight basin]

the steps to reveal hidden aspects are pinned in #h1-story-discussion if you want to get it asap, otherwise you'll get it eventually by just playing the game

but yeah ease of use would be eris > beowulf > hera

[sonic lance]

is it cuz if ur not one shotting stuffs ur dps is heavily nerfed

i wonder how it sustains against bosses lol

as for beowulf i haven't read how it works

[tight basin]

pretty much yeah

it has a decent sized aoe but not as much compared to the other two so you have to try and get the most out of it

and try to use the wall bug tech as much as possible

against bosses you really gotta wall bug

also if your aim sucks then you'll just whiff a lot of casts lmfao

[sonic lance]

sounds sweaty

also uh idk if my mirror is ideal

[tight basin]

decent chance it isn't lol

[tight basin]

kinda lol

but wallbug is part of the reason why hera is so good

you get your cast back if the enemy is against a wall and you hit them at an angle

[tight basin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxwSsTPubI&pp=ygUVaGFkZXMgc2xlZXBzb3VsIGd1aWRl

this is a good place to start for speedrunning

mirror, pact, and builds

doesn't really tell you how to play the aspects tho iirc

[sonic lance]

fiery, chthonic, death, greater, boiling, infernal, deep pockets, thick skin, fam fav, darksight, pride, persuasion

[tight basin]

oh that's good

[sonic lance]

if im on eris rail shld i shadow presence insteaed

[tight basin]

oh for speed, high confidence > thick skin

[tight basin]

nah

your special can't backstab, and backstab on your bullets is 5 extra damage lol

take fiery so your initial special hit does more damage

[sonic lance]

true

uh, what abt the dash

eris is a facetanky aspect, shld i sack the second dash for dodge rate lol

[tight basin]

no lol

you only take ruthless reflex if you're playing gilgamesh

or high heat on shield

[sonic lance]

okie

[sonic lance]

soul for eris ?

[tight basin]

eh doesn't matter too much tbh

infernal is fine

[sonic lance]

true

[tight basin]

if you get lightning rod then that's neat lol

pretty good damage tbf

[sonic lance]

so... is there basically nothing i shld change here

[sonic lance]

^

[tight basin]

@sonic lance

if you really care about speedrunning anyways

but otherwise yeah

[sonic lance]

hmm

[tight basin]

for normal playthroughs, thick skin is gonna be a lot more useful

[sonic lance]

i forgot, r u able to put both zeus n dionysus on attack

[rotund sluice]

No

[sonic lance]

thx

[sonic lance]

was 4 gods the normal limit

[rotund sluice]

That’s the amount the regular god pool holds yes

Keepsakes can make that bigger

[sonic lance]

does eris scale better w zeus or dio

[rotund sluice]

Zeus imo

[sonic lance]

thx

[rotund sluice]

Get static discharge

[sonic lance]

about keepsakes, not sure how i shld be using my nectar

[rotund sluice]

Give one to each Olympian

[sonic lance]

ah, why though

wait n how do u track who you;ve given

i forgot i havent played the game in years kekw

[rotund sluice]

Their keepsakes allow you to guarantee boons from them

[rotund sluice]

There’s a keepsake drawer and also your codex should say

[sonic lance]

for special is aphro or artemis better

[rotund sluice]

On eris?

[sonic lance]

yep

[rotund sluice]

Either
Artemis does more damage if you get chaos, but Aphrodite can give you smoldering air which is always nice

[sonic lance]

"smoldering air"

hmm

[rotund sluice]

Zeus and Aphrodite duo boon

[sonic lance]

ohhh

[sonic lance]

wait, what abt aphro n artemis duo

though i wouldnt know who the other would go on

[rotund sluice]

Heart rend is nice, but it’s hard to do with this build

[sonic lance]

mmm

[rotund sluice]

It’s better with, say, Aspect of Nemesis sword

[sonic lance]

do u normally just take whoever's available first

well unless ur really minmaxing for speedruns

[rotund sluice]

I like Aphrodite, but overall yes
Tbf I don’t use the rail much

[sonic lance]

icic

thx

[plain river]

This is eris right?

[tight basin]

You take whoever in min max anyways lol

You'd even take epic Athena/Demeter prob tbh

Although I'm not an expert on eris but I would think so tbh

[plain river]

As someone who’s been speedrunning a bit I tend to prefer artemis if I have the option between the two since support fire / pressure points and hunters mark exist

Key word “a bit” I’m not the lead expert on Eris by any regard

[sonic lance]

mmm

[plain river]

The crits and extra added flat damage flying around really play well with the global additive for eris

[tight basin]

Artemis > Aphrodite bc of crits really

If we're really min maxing the ideal build, you'd have clockets anyways

In which case you'd def want Artemis

[plain river]

Plus w/ RD those crits are going to hit even harder

[sonic lance]

does eris benefit frm chaos

[plain river]

+% special damage, +% rare boons, +% obols and +max hp are all solid

[sonic lance]

mmm

[plain river]

and for speedrunning you want to take every chaos room regardless

+% rare boons also boosts your epic odds and duo/legendary odds by +10% iirc, which is pretty massive for your hermes boons at the very least

Regardless of any other gods in your god pool

[plain river]

A single solid +% obols can easily let you buy out everything you could want in a run and even a low end one is still a decent boost to your purchasing power

[sonic lance]

so eris zeus/dio + art/aphro + poseidon + who ?

do i grab hermes or smth

[plain river]

Honestly 3 gods is greedy enough

[sonic lance]

lmao

[plain river]

Hermes is seperate from the god pool you’ll always get him

he doesn’t count for your 4 olympian gods

[sonic lance]

oh cool

[plain river]

since he works so differently

worsed rarity odds, max of 2 boons outside of an additional one in styx, no core boons

[plain river]

There’s nothing wrong with running zeus strike and then picking up dio call as your 4th god then like

dio call is really strong, and dio has a good handful of useful scaling boons

strong drink for even more global additive, premium vintage to ensure your max hp isn’t stupid low

[sonic lance]

is pride > legacy

[sonic lance]

is dio call the best for eris in general

[plain river]

dio and zeus happen to just be the best dps calls (not aspect specific)

I mean some aspects actually want Hades call a ton more but that’s a small subsection

[plain river]

In general yeah

having better boons and getting your duos later > having worse boons for your duos to work off of

[chilly wraith]

So this guide says keep it to four gods, but then I lose the 5% boost from the mirror on 5 different gods, worth it?

Nvm Hermes counts

[plain river]

4 gods fill your godpool and hermes is exempt from the god pool

[chilly wraith]

So Hermes doesn not towards family favorite?

[plain river]

he does

but he works differently for actually getting boons from him

[chilly wraith]

It’s odd I haven’t ublocked the ending yet.

Some runs and weapons I can do with my eyes closed and other runs I die early

[plain river]

it’s 4 regular olympians + Hermes = 5 for your 25% from family favourites

[chilly wraith]

I got a question about ares

Guides I read seem skeptical of stacking doom, but I feel like the window opens significantly with impending doom.

What’s everyone’s feeling on stacking doom?

(Let’s assume a non-rapid fire build)

Also, the guys I’m reading seem obsessed with Hunter’s Mark. But I don’t get the hype, I fear I’m playing that one wrong

[plain river]

You don’t “stack” doom

the only real doom build immediately drops doom asap with the athena/ares duo Merciful End

[chilly wraith]

Then let me phrase my question differently, how is dire misfortune Best leveraged?

[plain river]

on like rail I suppose if you really really want to force it to happen

Or ME sword with double edge since you’ll always have 1 extra hit as opposed to divine dash proks

[chilly wraith]

Right

But I feel like impending doom with dire misfortune sets you up for bombs

[plain river]

I mean sort of but not really when you could just drop them way faster since your first hit is always going to be like 10x value of the following hits

so the ME pattern of just dash-striking into enemies to both prok doom and drop doom immediately by deflecting off of dash

[chilly wraith]

Right so passion dash + doom on ME

Got it

[plain river]

means you output multiple doom drops super fast for higher dps than waiting

Divine dash

not passion dash

[chilly wraith]

Merciful end > curse of longing?

[plain river]

By far

That’s why I’ve repeatedly been saying ME

You will not find a speedrun with competetive times or high heat run whatsoever posted to the leaderboards using curse of longing

[chilly wraith]

Got it

What about hunters mark? I don’t see the hype

[plain river]

crit chains pop off hard

you get one crit off of your main crit source or off of pressure points and then it snowballs out

because the guaranteed crit proks hunters mark onto another enemy

It makes it really easy for whatever your damage source is to just get tripled again and again

say a well pommed tidal dash that’s doing like 100 damage per dash now gets tripled to 300 and another enemy now has hunters mark to run it all over again etc

[tight basin]

the main thing is that dire misfortune is only useful before you get ME, otherwise it just becomes pointless lmao

if you're building around doom, you generally want ME and you only take dire misfortune bc you don't have anything better to take from ares

[waxen dragon]

Oh wow, using Aphrodite on attack with Nemesis is quite good. Managed to get Athena on dash and special and the Athena legendary, heart rend and the Athena Artemis duo. But I really needed the kiss of Styx premium as I had no lives left by the time I got to the second last realm

[waxen dragon]

But the Athena Artemis one doesn't seem as good with Athena on attack

[tight basin]

it's not ideal yeah

athena on the special deflects pretty well surprisingly

[waxen dragon]

The Artemis Athena duo, should that proc if Athena is on attack? If I hit an enemy I should always get the critical bonus or is it after I hit I get it on the next?

[tight basin]

it's after you deflect

it's just difficult to deflect on sword attack

it's totally doable, but a lot less consistent compared to athena on the special

[waxen dragon]

Oh ok. Is it the same with heart rend? You don't get the benefit at the same time as applying weak?

[waxen dragon]

Nem doesn't seem to crit as high as bow? I was hitting like 700-1600 on bow. Maybe 300-500 on Nemesis?

[plain river]

Max base damage and ease of access to extra additive is way higher on bow thanks to a) it’s built in stats and b) the numerous useful hammers

so it just makes sense that you crit for more on bow

for the average build for either

[timid aspen]

Better to select boons from a variety of gods or stick to one?

[plain river]

Once you take boons from 4 regular olympians (Hermes isn’t a regular olympian, chaos isn’t an olympian), the game will stop naturally generating the others

So as soon as that happens your boon consistency for the gods you have doubles

after that point it pretty much depends on the god whether or not you care about their secondary boons and duos/legendaries

[zenith fractal]

it's an unpommable boon. people pick it up when building towards but don't have enough poms in their doom effect yet so they don't want to pick up any more boons that can be pommed. you're rarely if ever going to use DM for the damage it provides.

full list here

[hollow roost]

definitely learned firsthand why 63 heat is so tough by trying to find the fastest way to progress some dialogue lmao

but for the record, that was definitely the fastest way

[plain river]

I think even by like

15 heat you’re at the fastest

[hollow roost]

maybe, but I mean just getting killed as quickly as possible lol

cuz I either die in 5 minutes or get ganked by the 60% more enemies in the room with base hp

[tight basin]

i mean

there's a pact that makes enemies do 100% more damage

and one that makes traps do 5x damage

those two are the only ones you need really lmao

and removing your mirror so you dont have death defiances

which would add up to 15 lol

a lot of the other stuff doesn't really do anything for you

you can add another 6 for forced overtime 2 so enemies attack faster with 100% more damage

[plain river]

That’s what I mean

[gusty halo]

How does the call ares aid pair with a fists build with ||merciful end||?

[proper furnace]

ares call stinky in general

it stops you from using your weapon until it ends

and the dmg is much worse than most builds

[gusty halo]

Oof, glad I didn’t go with it

[proper furnace]

same goes for pos's call

but also a thing

all calls offer some iframes on activation

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1251747791982821466/CallIframe.mp4?ex=691f3ab9&is=691de939&hm=9fa4f431ae9160d344c7312895c2d116655f6f3d1adf18139a0996a27d6851f4&

[gusty halo]

Thanks for showing me

[waxen dragon]

Ugh failed an Achilles run. Was hoping for sea storm and didn't get it. Ended up with Poseidon attack and Aphrodite dash

[rotund sluice]

Ouch

[runic fox]

I don’t remember the name but is using the bow with the aspect that merges your cast and attack good? In my first run with it i reached || Hades 2nd form because i got dionyses cast + his poison stuff on my special || but on my second run i got packed up in the || minotaur/theseus fight cause i didnt get great cast ||

[tight basin]

Yes aspect of hera is quite good

Put Aphrodite cast on it and you should be getting a lot of burst damage

[runic fox]

Isn’t aprhodite cast just weaking opponents?

[tight basin]

No it does a lot of damage lmao

All casts deal damage

They all have different effects but aphro cast does also inflict weak

Aphro cast normally sucks bc despite the high damage, it has super short range

Aspect of hera basically gives you infinite range lmao

"infinite" being the range of a bow, which is more than enough

[runic fox]

Oh i didn’t know it had high damage, would you reccomend not picking up any casts until i potentially get hers?

I still don’t know a lot of stuff, I’m trying to clear first time

[tight basin]

You can start with it with aphrodite keepsake

Or at least try to lmao

Otherwise yeah try not to pick up others I guess

[rough blade]

hera without a cast boon is kinda sad so I would try to nag aphro cast as soon as possible

which is why I kinda hate chamber 1 hammers now

[plain river]

C1 hammers give you a bow hammer early which is a significant dps boost thou

[timid aspen]

Is it just a skill issue on my end or is everything in Hades 1 much tankier than Hades 2?

[tight basin]

hp values of enemies in the game are on the wiki probably so you can check for yourself maybe lmao

decent chance it could be a skill issue tho

cursory look through the wiki, hades 2 is generally more tanky lmao

tbf damage numbers are bigger in that game i think (or at least more consistently) which could make up for it

[frank goblet]

damage numbers are a lot smaller in h1 ya

[rough blade]

I run modded so my first hammer is always flurry

[polar belfry]

Is there any way I can use Ares in a build, He just seems so ass

[plain river]

4 real ways

1: Merciful End (any melee weapon ngl)
Put ares on strike, put athena on special (just to find the Merciful End duo), and take divine dash from athena so your dashstrikes both give enemies doom and hit them with deflect immediately after. This is a really strong build, but it takes more rng than a typical build since it needs 3 specific cores. Also really want impending doom for more damage

Hunting blades (any cast aspect/ most aspects can slot this anyways);

Artemis core (typically strike, whatever suits the weapon) + ares cast, find their duo. Pretty simple.

Hangover (Curse of Nausea):
literally just as it sounds, you take a doom boon (usually curse of vengeance) to open curse of nausea and make your hangover hit faster

Hestia:
Hestia can use doom on strike, as the reload for the next shot makes it pretty viable to break shields with the main strike and then follow up with the doom after

otherwise

pretty sparing for builds

[tight basin]

Would not recommend doing it for hestia lmao

[plain river]

Last I checked the hestia anyheat wr does

[tight basin]

That's not bc it's good lmao

You'd be getting a lot more mileage with aphrodite than ares realistically unless you get RD

[dapper helm]

In the case of Hunting blades, if you happen to have Poseidon too, e.g. you looked for tidal dash, you can also get a second seeking blade too via mirage shot. While not directly Ares I've gotten some good safe damage from the extra seeking blade.

[exotic hemlock]

Hi I am a new player on god mode. I just want to beat the game and experience the story. Is there any easy weapon aspect and build for me to clear the game a few times? thanks

[cobalt hearth]

go for which one is most comfortable for you!
however, the safest pick is ||shield. not only can it block attacks but zeus shield is generally considered the best aspect in the game||

[exotic hemlock]

Is Zeus shield good even for beginners?

[cobalt hearth]

shield is good in general for beginners i think
generally for zeus shield, especially with low level, you want a flat damage boon on your special, like zeus or dionysus

[plain river]

Which weapon do you want to use

Because every weapon has at least one pretty decent aspect that stands to some extent above the rest

And every weapon is pretty equally viable so you can just use whichever one you really find fun, especially if you’re using one of the better aspects

[exotic hemlock]

I am not pushing high endgame content because i want to see the story and go play Hades II. I just want a smooth sail to beat Hades.

I mean I can probably go now and pick up Zeus shield. Even if I decide to play high heat content later I at least will be able to with some ease.

[plain river]

ok but like I can help you choose an aspect if you have a weapon(s) you’d prefer to use

zeus isn’t the be all end all of weapon aspects

[exotic hemlock]

so I was told that I want zeus special boon for the aspect of zeus shield build. how do i get the boon consistently? i equipped the zeus keepstake but still couldnt get his special boon.

[plain river]

w/ the zeus keepsake you should be getting his special 3/4’s of the time off rip

there’s only one possibly roll out of the 4 that can result in you not seeing special from your first boon in a rin

that’s going to be most of the time, and even if you end up with a hammer start, it’s still 3/4 odds for the first zeus boon you pick up to give you zeus special since it’s picking from 3 options from the 4 core boons

otherwise you either have to cope and take something else and hope to remedy it soon, or just pivot your build based on who else you find but

[ancient pivot]

Guys for those of you who have summons, how long into the game were you to get your first? I mean, I’m playing after a looooong time again and I know everything so dw bout that but I haven’t gotten to my first companion yet, close though. So I was wondering if I’m slower than most or…

This save is like, a few escapes in but I’ve been using the save a loooot

[proper furnace]

In my experience you can get skelly's reliable faster than any others

He's always available/his quest is ez

[ancient pivot]

Yeah I guess, not that good though imo

[proper furnace]

The other have longer favors/more rng getting the convos

[ancient pivot]

Meg and Than are rly good, Sisyphus is ok I guess but Achilles takes the longest, honestly that’s my goal, get Achilles summon

[proper furnace]

Yeah I was gonna say
Achilles is prob the longest one to get lol

Or than if he's being annoying

[ancient pivot]

Oh yeah if he doesn’t want to show up

[proper furnace]

I'd say meg is 2nd fastest? And good cuz hers is the best

[ancient pivot]

I’m gonna get hers first def

[proper furnace]

Also how many escapes are we talking/total runs

[ancient pivot]

Umm, can’t check rn but, probably from 40 - 60 maybe? Cuz this save is old but I stopped playing for a bit and continued so I’ve only got like 3-4 escapes

[proper furnace]

Oh that's really early summons wise

Not surprised you don't have them yet

[ancient pivot]

I’ve maxed out Achilles hearts and almost maxed out megs

Patroclus is avoiding me 😢

[proper furnace]

You also need Sisyphus/Orpheus' Quests done for achilles

[ancient pivot]

Wait what

Nooooo

I’m dead

Permanently I mean,

Orpheus I can prob do I think, I’ve done it before but Sisyphus? I don’t rly remember his contract and stuff

[proper furnace]

Talk to him/nyx/than basically

You'll eventually get the contract thing

[exotic hemlock]

Hi I want to build a first time clear zagreus shield using the special spam - any ideas how to build this?

[ancient pivot]

Im out, shield is t my thing

Sorry

[proper furnace]

Do you have access to aspects

Normal special sucks ass

[exotic hemlock]

I just did my first clear with the zeus shield with zeus on special - it slaps

[proper furnace]

Oh there we go lol

Use that please

[exotic hemlock]

i am wondering where i should go from there

should i go get more aspects or focus on maxing and high heat with zeus shield first

[proper furnace]

If you have high level zeus shield/get explosive return you can use the % specials too of you wanna mix it up a bit

Or use hangover/do merciful end

[proper furnace]

I prefer climbing with 1 weapon then use the blood from that to have an easier time with the other weapons

Fwiw zeus shield doesn't really need levels if you are gonna be doing zeus special

[exotic hemlock]

thanks

[serene seal]

zeus shield or chiron bow

[tight basin]

zeus shield

by a mile

or 500 miles

[pine harness]

Walk 500 miles on Zeus' shield before you judge a book by its covers

[echo idol]

zeus shield with the right boons is pretty based
i can't stand the bow

[plain river]

💔

Is it like a “I can’t use this properly” or a “I cannot play whatsoever with a weapon that charges up” sorta “I can’t stand it”

Because I’ve seen a fair amount of ppl change their opinions on bow after learning how to use and build it more effectively

[zenith fractal]

#h1-discussion message

[tight basin]

idk i've walked pretty far with it personally, but others have gone 5000 miles with it

[hushed cypress]

zeus shield is better but personally i find bow more fun

[tacit vapor]

Fathed authority with a build focused on zeus like eris rail is a good idea?

[zenith fractal]

authority is a very niche mirror upgrade. from the top of my head, I can think of two specific usecases for it, in one of which isn't even proven to work better than persuasion.

the one you brought up is not among those two.

[plain river]

Nothing about zeus rail really justifies fauthority over fpersuasion

[zenith fractal]

like, it's not bad per se, but persuasion is better in almost every situation, and so there is no reason to ever run authority.

[tacit vapor]

alright!

another question, it's a good idea to use god's legacy when going for merciful end ?

[tacit vapor]

which cases are those?

[zenith fractal]

when playing boonless, one may consider using it to roll out of god's boon rewards. in the end it's about as good as persuasion, with the slight advantage of being able to get your first hammer earlier.
some aspects in hades the videogame (zagshield, chaos) only need a strong attack and a hammer (charged show) to have a viable high heat run, and having chamber-rerolls would help get to the hammer faster to get the build online. one doesn't need to worry about the attack here because we assume it's been acquired on first boon (run gets reset otherwise). even in this niche usecase, the two are about equal, with authority having the slightest edge due to potentially letting the player encounter hammer faster.

[zenith fractal]

you have 10% base duo chance per slot in minibosses and 12% duo chance per slot in regular rooms. this means that on average, even disregarding other rarity buffs affecting duos, legacy less than doubles your odds of getting shinies.

while it makes getting ME more reliable, the merciful end builds you'll get from it will be significantly weaker than with god's pride. as a frame of reference, having a purple attack literally doubles the damage you deal at low pom-levels (100 base damage vs 50 base damage). getting rush delivery in epic instead of common can again provide double the increase in damage (100% vs 50%). also there are several sources of duo chance (yarns of ariadne, eurydice nectar, chaos "favor" buffs) that add 10% chance. about 2/3 times, if you didn't get ME, it's probably due to an inaccuracy on your part rather than god's pride being bad.

this is to say, god's legacy is fine at the low-end, but at the high-end of the game runners prefer to use god's pride regardless of build or strategy (even if the strategy wants a duoboon). if your strategy absolutely needs more than 1 duoboon/legendaries to work, the build is bad because not reliable enough.

[tacit vapor]

ok, thanks you for the tips!

very useful info

💪

[tacit vapor]

sorry for asking, i feel like i'm annoying but

any tips on sword?

i struggle too much with the sword

i have no problems with every other weapon

but i struggle a lot with sword

[zenith fractal]

Check pinned messages, should have a guide to help. Also aspect guides available on the hades speedrun.com site

Unless you mean mechanics-wise, in which case:

Your standard rotation on 2+ dash non-arthur sword is "special -> dashstrike until you have none left -> repeat". There is a fair amount of movement tech with the sword, but knowing this is enough like 95% of the time. Getting double edge while running a strategy other than Merciful End will help.

On arthur however...
Try to always have the special AoE active and stand in it.
You have 3 main options as to how to deal your damage:

• standing strikes. These are usually used when you know you can safely get off the 3rd hit, such as right after a slow-attacking enemy's attack or between enemy waves. This playstyle gets even stronger with shadow slash.
• dashstrikes. This is your usual non-committal damage-option. Use it whenever you see fit. This playstyle gets even stronger with double edge.
• casts. Attack animations on arthur are terrible, so some players resort to casts (usually zeus or poseidon) for room cleanup.

[tacit vapor]

Alr, tysm

Appreciate the help ❤️‍🩹

[waxen dragon]

Hestia build for tight deadline? I'm pretty slow with it. Reloads seem to take a while

Discovered Ares Dionysus duo not bad with Eris

[plain river]

hestia is pretty fast if used properly

it’s literally just big +% strike like aphro, tidal dash, and either pick up hammers that boost strike aoe like ricochet or piercing, or special hammers and any +% special

[valid dagger]

Press Dash or Special right after you reload, you'll cancel the animation

[waxen dragon]

So far ran out of time with a heart rend build.

[waxen dragon]

Does cancelling still give the buff?

[valid dagger]

yep

Heartrend is not that good on hestia

[waxen dragon]

I barely got through with less than a minute left with a general Aphrodite attack and explosive shot build, didn't get much in the way of duos.

Are there duos I should try for in Hestia?

[valid dagger]

It's more about technique than actual build. The Aphro attack itself is enough when it comes to the attack, but you can try to get a Zeus call and aim for Smoldering air. You can also go for Tidal dash for more aoe, it'll help you in early rooms and in styx and it's a good pom target

Also explosive shot is not a particularly good hammer for Hestia. Try to get Hazard Bomb, Rocket Bomb, Targeting System, and Ricochet or Piercing for the attack. I would even take Triple Bomb or Cluster Bomb before thinking about Explosive.

[waxen dragon]

Was thinking whether Artemis on attack would be good or not

[waxen dragon]

I think I got triple bomb, targeting or ricochet before. Never tried Hazard bomb

[valid dagger]

It only starts being good when you have other sources that scale your attack/dash strike like Chaos or maybe Rush delivery. Otherwise it's quite inconsistent

[valid dagger]

Hazard is my favorite, it's really good and comfortable to play despite the dmg penalty.

[crude gyro]

any advice for a fresh file escape attempt? ive made it to hades twice now

[zenith fractal]

https://scientific-paprika-b40.notion.site/Hades-Fresh-File-First-Run-Guide-2d647029f5c34252acbd38ad5e54b221

I can also answer any additional questions you may have, I usually have the supergiant discord channels open on the side.
Fresh File has a lot of unique decisionmaking no other challenge or category in this game has, understanding the consistency-rules governing it and practicing the bossfights will reduce the time it takes until you clear.

[crude gyro]

yea immediately the boon priorities jumped out at me, probably why ive only seen ME like 2 times so far in the attempts ive done. tyvm for the link

oh.

lol

annoying delayed animation hits and not getting ME have been holding me back

also its nice knowing i can practice with save files if i feel like i need to, was worried i would be stuck on hades forever if i only got there like 1/5 of the time at best

[zenith fractal]

The reason why enemies get their attacks interrupted is because they get hit on very particular frames of their attacks. If you see an enemy got interrupted, don't be dumb (let them finish their attack), it's bound to happen.

One can usually get ME on ⅔ runs, assuming solid play and optimal decisionmaking (to prevenr having to buy food every shop, which helps get the build up).

[crude gyro]

the amount of dio duo boons ive gotten... lol

they sell real nice at least

[zenith fractal]

Well, if you get forced into dionysus and he offers the cast, that's a fine take. Filling cores, which doesn't just guarantee that you get offered at least one of attack/special offered on future boon-menus, but also later doesn't open any duoboons or legendaries that conflict with ME, and makes ME more likely to appear once you have prerequisites for it.

The arguably worst outcome consistency-wise is artemis, as she doesn't just dilute the shop pool, but her cast which would be used to help one increase the odds of a good build opens deadly reversal, thereby having less of a positive effect on getting ME itself.

[crude gyro]

yeah learned that by now. had best success so far with athena or ares special, but also didnt do too bad with dio special. i think i play more safe with ares/dio and actually manage to do a lot of damage anyways

[zenith fractal]

Would advise firmly against anything that's not ares attack ME . It's not just about 50% stronger than special ME (you can get one less doom-proc off per rotation), but is more difficult to play becauase your main source of damage is locked behind a long animation, which means "empty-dash"es aren't worth your time.

If you have Divine Protection , your coreboons (outside of athena dash and special) can probably be whatever. I consider to be about on-par with for first clear purposes.

[crude gyro]

the one time i really had a good ME build, i did a lot of damage with it but was also early on in attempts so got hit a lot too

havnt seen that once yet

[zenith fractal]

Gets opened by Brilliant Riposte, highly recommend picking up!

There's a common camping strategy for first clears that I bring up in the part of the "cast vs thrust" section I contributed to sophie's guide.

[crude gyro]

the hades attack part?

[zenith fractal]

Yes.

[crude gyro]

another thing that trying this has made painfully clear is i kinda barely learned enemies when completing the game before, just let strong builds carry me

[zenith fractal]

The 2nd dash makes things more lenient too.

That's the main deterrent from trying fresh file for most people, they're too used to being able to double-tap the dash button to evade anything.

[crude gyro]

facts

[crude gyro]

so is me hitting brightswords right when they spawn and them immediately countering with no windup me hitting them at the wrong frame or something?

that swipe that they chase after you to do that comes out instantly when you're in range, but it comes out in the middle of me hitting them, very frustrating

inside fog too

[crude gyro]

gotten ME 3 times now ❤️

[zenith fractal]

brightswords are a different beast, they have some slightly unfair patterns sometimes (the 4-frame swipes if they get staggered when wanting to attack). the guide goes into almost excessive detail about them, at a surface-level I can say however that staggering a brightsword (with a special or cast, if you want to play it safe) while it's walking towards you, baits out the attack and gives you an opening of a few seconds to damage them freely.

it can also help to keep an obstacle (wall, gap or enemy) between you and it, it won't dash right through it.

[crude gyro]

gotcha

also realized this was speedrun focused advice too which is why dio/ares special are poopoo

like halfway through my 5th run before i realized

[zenith fractal]

even for consistency, having dionysus anywhere is suboptimal. especially not having athena special sets you back so much on safety without providing much more damage in return.

(as someone with over 30 wins in a row at this)

[crude gyro]

but he's such a bro

[zenith fractal]

f### 'im

[crude gyro]

ok

have you done this for hades 2? if so which do you find harder?

[zenith fractal]

• yes. I'm very slow at 2nd game though.
• hades 1, by a significant margin. I won't go into detail, but hades 1 is easier to get a build in due to 1: the lesser cores and 2: the lesser amount of gods available on run 1. it's also more different than a regular anyheat run (1 dash instead of 2) as opposed to h2 where it's sort of just a regular run where you happen to need to be aware of the health you enter next biome with.

[crude gyro]

its funny i havnt been this good at fighting bull since 2020

[frigid hornet]

I love the twin fists

[crude gyro]

im falling into my rhythm game trap of restarting the second i make a mistake now

[indigo ember]

I really encourage you to try and keep up the run even after messing up
Is a good way to keep yourself consistent even if a run is going badly :D

[crude gyro]

this is a lifelong moral failing of mine lol

[proper furnace]

During first run you can press give up and it actually doesn't reset your run

So you have infinite re tries if you want the practice really

[crude gyro]

it does reset for me?

takes me to house if i reload file

[proper furnace]

Are you no longer in first run?

Ik I used this on console so it should still work like Ibsaid

[crude gyro]

i delete file and start fresh

steam different?

[proper furnace]

It shouldn't

Game doesn't get updated

• I had my dad savefile like this

[crude gyro]

i havnt done any save file changing or anything

just in game

[proper furnace]

Oh it might be because you are already using that save slot

Do you have a save slot that's fully empty?

[crude gyro]

i clear save slot and load from empty save slot (4th slot)

[proper furnace]

Ok yeah I assume that's why it doesn't work

Short version is hades never truly deletes a slot

If you erase a file then go back to menu or load another the save will just go back

[crude gyro]

i had noticed last night, i cleared the save and when i loaded game it was back

[proper furnace]

Yeah

So that's why pressing giving up restored you back to the house

[crude gyro]

like closed game and went to bed and it was back

am i playing a fully fresh file still? or do i need to fiddle with it

im getting the athena first boon and no enemies 1st room and stuff

[proper furnace]

You'd have to use a save slot that has never done a run to use the give up as a retry

Otherwise you can do manual save states yourself

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1230649734008672347/1443801450240278713/Screenshot_20251128-001115.Discord.png?ex=692a6462&is=692912e2&hm=236e70f2a80e08d7a4343ba7d45c7abdaf6cca999e39812fbc669cb5ba8d76a0& (basically, grab the temp save of your current save file/run and store it away somewhere else or rename it to another slot)

Really useful to practice heroes/dad

Or rooms you played really bad

[crude gyro]

yeah i need to do that, only gotten past elysium boss 3 or 4 times now

am i going to have to reset keybinds each time?

[proper furnace]

Those are kept pretty sure?

Or they haven't reset for me at least

[zenith fractal]

Your controls are stored in .crtls files. Your settings are in .sjson files. Keep those two files for the save slot intact.

Keeping those around prevents you from having to set new controls every time

[crude gyro]

ok i had to 1. open game 2. delete save 3. while game open manually deleted the profile4 files 4. close game

now i can use giveup to save scum

[crude gyro]

is there a mod to stop dad from laughing at me

[hoary sleet]

the laugh is actually beneficial to the player. it increases spite by 5% every time its used.

[ancient pivot]

I can’t tell if your being sarcastic or serious

[plain echo]

What is the best companions

[zenith fractal]

meg's, by far

it's not the easiest to use but if you know the setups it's by far the strongest

[plain echo]

Thx

What is the strongest dash after poseidon’s dash

Afrodite or athena dash stronger ?

[hoary sleet]

Sarcastic lmfao my b

It does help with my motivation tho

[proper furnace]

Athena is best defensive
Ares's is 2nd best dmg

[waxen dragon]

Oh Poseidon aspect, should I use the regenerating cast?

[plain river]

Kind of gets rid of the point of the aspect

also stygian cares more about which cast you’re using than which aspect you’re using tbh

[waxen dragon]

Yeah it was tough, managed to clear though slow waiting for regenerating

Impressed myself with a new time record, using Demeter fist of all things with sea storm

[waxen dragon]

Wow I scraped through on beo with 9 health and no lives left

[ancient pivot]

Erm actually you have infinite LIVES. But limited DEATH DEFIANCES

[hoary sleet]

Erm actually you have ONE LIFE that you must love and cherish your short amount of time in, AS MORTALS DO

[crude gyro]

lets be real, we all have no life

or at least me, dont want to speak for everyone i guess

[timid jetty]

I begrudingly have a life

[rotund sluice]

gasp

[stoic onyx]

is the aspect of rama worth unlocking or should i just stick with chiron

[zenith fractal]

chiron is firmly the weakest of the four bows. it's good enough for casual-play though.

play whatever's fun to you until you start pushing the game to its limits.

[tight basin]

If you're willing to upgrade Chiron then you're willing to upgrade every bow aspect 👍

[timid jetty]

Chiron is fun but weakest

[stoic onyx]

really? i thought it was the best one

learn new things every day i spose

[zenith fractal]

it's the easiest to understand one of the possible playstyles of, hence its popularity among newer players.

the other bows however... #h1-discussion message

[stoic onyx]

what makes the other aspects good? my main issue with the bow was just the spec not doing enough damage

[tight basin]

What makes bow good is that the attack is really good lmao

And the special is pretty bad except on rama, but the special isn't your main damage still, it supplements your attack damage bc of the gimmick

Inherent 15% crit chance on zag bow is just solid since you get more aoe and damage faster

Hera blows things up with Aphrodite cast and has decent aoe

Rama has a weird aoe kinda thing but absolutely chunks enemies

[stoic onyx]

i usually just do crit attack and chill/hangover spec

works wonders when i get mark

also how do i git gud with shield

im even using zeus aspect and i still feel like i do no damage

[tight basin]

That's like fine but the other bows have better aoe damage with faster single target damage, so there isn't really an area where Chiron excels at compared to the other aspects

[tight basin]

Try Zeus special and getting static discharge

Pom static discharge a lot

[frank goblet]

or do aphro spec

[tight basin]

With explosive return

[stoic onyx]

I see

[frank goblet]

damage still feels good, zeus can up to a certain point run most specials in the game

[stoic onyx]

Man i wish curseblade heal worked on dash strike

It just feels so mid because it doesn’t give heal on dash strike

[plain river]

Good thing you don’t need to use the special whatsoever

[crude gyro]

my favorite shield build is zag with poseidon attack just brainless dash attacking everything 3000 miles away

[sand geyser]

wait hold up chat, fists are kinda fire

[plain river]

Real nirvana is realising every weapon is pretty fire

[sand geyser]

No deadass

[rough blade]

hera bow is best tho

[sinful matrix]

Holedes 🥺

I have 28 attempts and 2 clears. My first clear was just me playing blindly I was using the spear with a bunch of doom upgrades and divine dash and Artemis call

For my second clear I looked up a build that used Chiron + dino special + aphro attack

I had a lot of fun But i can't seem to find more fun builds like that. Please suggest more builds like that keep in mind I have limited resources

[rough blade]

invest 2 titan blood into level 1 hera bow and run it with aphro cast

[sinful matrix]

Could you tell me something for the shield or the spear please

[rough blade]

uhhh zeus shield and pluck zeus into both attack and special

[plain river]

zeus shield with zeus on special but him being on strike doesn’t really matter

You’re better off with like zeus special -> aphro on strike and then either zeus or dio on call

[rough blade]

I play zeus shield by mashing attack

[sinful matrix]

Will it feel OP like Chiron bow with dionysus on special and Aphrodite on attack

[plain river]

look for explosive return for hammers and then like charged shot /

[plain river]

It won’t feel the same but it will be a more effective build

Chiron has this weird way of warping newbies perceptions around it since it’s super easy to use but not really that effective in the grand scheme of Hades

[sinful matrix]

What about other weapons

Tell me for every weapon except bow

[rough blade]

why not bow 😭

[sinful matrix]

Already played with it

[plain river]

Sure

I might throw in a regular bow build that isn’t reliant on special at the end since I want to give you something else to use with it

[sinful matrix]

Thanks alot!

[plain river]

Rail is like pretty simple to build so I’ll start there. Eris or Zag rail work here, Eris is more effective but both can use it since they effective are just the base rail+.
Start with lightning strike, look for the static discharge boon from zeus (this will be like 20-60% of your lightning damage).
then you can force in or ideally just find poseidon and look to grab tidal dash from him, and breaking wave and/or razor shoals subsequently.

Any +% special will work, but artemis gives a ton of goodies in pressure points / hunters mark / support fire, while aphrodite opens smouldering air, so you can take a good dps call like zeus or dio and spam minicalls.

Your fourth god can really be whoever at this point, they’re mainly going to be giving you supporting boons.

Hermes you’re going to look for hyper sprint -> rush delivery for more damage or greatest reflex for more maneuverability and more dashes for more damage

Hammers: rocket bomb > cluster bomb > triple bomb > hazard bomb > like piercing fire or ricochet shot

Spear(achilles)
hunting blades:
artemis strike -> ares cast, find duo
nab hunters mark / pressure points /support fire from artemis
nab blade rift secondary boons from ares
tidal dash from pos is going to open mirage shot here for a 30% cast damage dps boost.

same hermes boons as mentioned for rail, but flurry cast is also viable if you can’t get those to help you cast faster.
For hammers you really want flurry jab, then triple or extending jab. Vicious skewer can be decent if you have hunters mark since it gives you an insane chance to start a crit chain

[sinful matrix]

OH MY GOD SUCH A BIG MESSAGE JUST FOR ME THANK YOU SO MUCH!

[sinful matrix]

Pin this <@&456908176877551658>

[plain river]

I didn’t want to just hand you a boon list with no explanation behind it

what

no it didn’t be pinned

[sinful matrix]

There's no pins like this

With build ideas

[plain river]

we already have some pins like it

actually 3rd pin is

it has a bunch of build ideas for each aspect that range from like “this does work - pretty much the meta build for this aspect” with no real distinction

and might spoil you for the hidden aspects

[sinful matrix]

Oh

[plain river]

then #h1-high-heat-strategies has a 32 heat guide that has builds for every aspect that are more directly meta and are pulling from the same knowledge base I use

[sinful matrix]

Ok thanks

[forest quarry]

can someone give me a ranking of all the weapons with zagreus aspect?

in their opinion

[plain river]

Probably like zag bow > zag rail >= zag shield > the rest

[tight basin]

ngl zag sword > fist > spear

mostly bc of like

they have unique builds lmao

zag sword plume is really goofy but if you get RD it's hella fun

fists has the dodge build which is neat but whatever but it's at least something

zag spear is just achilles without the cast part lmfao

[calm sparrow]

how tf ik what gives what duo or legendary man

i cant even begin to try making a build like this

[tight basin]

Use your codex

[calm sparrow]

wher

[tight basin]

It's an upgrade at the contractor table iirc

On kbm you can access it during your run by hitting c

[calm sparrow]

dont have it unlocked ig

ion have diamonds

btw whats hyper delivery

doesnt show on wiki idk y

[stoic onyx]

hyper sprint + rush delivery

hypersprint gives +100% movespeed for a short time after dash

[calm sparrow]

oh that

[stoic onyx]

Rush delivery gives more damage based on movespeed

[calm sparrow]

i had that ig

but it seems really hard to get naturally doesnt it

cuz u barely get hermes

[stoic onyx]

I get hermes fairly often in my runs

He usually shows up in Asphodel first encounter if you’re running a god keepsake

Sometimes he does sometimes he doesn’t

More often than not he does

[calm sparrow]

id care about that if i got the core and duos first

ion even get those

[stoic onyx]

As bananas said earlier, look in da codex

You can check all boons one specific god has, and what specific boons can unlock a duo boon

Like how, for example, artemis special and Dionysus attack gives you the duo boon

[proper furnace]

You always get 2 Hermes in a run

And the game wants to make sure you get those 2 hermes so he will keep showing up until you take it

[stoic onyx]

side hustle my beloved

[proper furnace]

[calm sparrow]

still gota get those 2 specific boons

[proper furnace]

That's why we bring boon rerolls

But yeah is an hermes issue

Hyper delivery/greatest reflex too good compared to everything else lol

[calm sparrow]

we get what

[proper furnace]

Last mirror skill

Expensive as hell tho (10k total, 1k/2k/3k/4k)

[stoic onyx]

and there’s also upgraded keys that give you a reroll

[stoic onyx]

i wish the room reroll was actually worth using compared to boon reroll

[plain river]

I’m not sure what they would have to change for it to even be worth it

[stoic onyx]

Maybe it lets you pick what to roll the room into, but even then

[crude gyro]

out of spite after not getting a chaos gate in tartarus i kept the egg. entire run, zero gates. zero gate spawn items.

[tight basin]

the egg doesn't increase chances for chaos gate at all lmao

[crude gyro]

i know

but what are the odds of not seeing a single gate for an entire run

[tight basin]

idk happens pretty often tbh lmao

most runs don't see a chaos gate i would think

[crude gyro]

pretty uncommon for me, usually see at least 2

[plain river]

Decently high

[crude gyro]

like, im usually going "unlucky" when i dont get a gate in tartarus, and usually swap off egg, but still go on to see two gates after that

hell gate in first room feels like a 1/3 or 1/4 chance for me

[tight basin]

that's very lucky to happen in a run lmao

[crude gyro]

i mean maybe my lucks just better than everyone else's to the point that 0 in a run seems unlikely to me

[tight basin]

could just be recency bias

[crude gyro]

i got a chaos gate in room 2 of the following run

[tight basin]

sometimes i do have those hot streaks where i get chaos a good amount of times in a row

and then other times there's just nothing lmao

[crude gyro]

charon well after meg, chaos gate item for sale

[plain river]

You are most likely to find them in tartarus tbf

The co-efficient is highest

for tart

[crude gyro]

elysium 1st room chaos gate

[nimble idol]

mighty h1 build chat i need tips on how to clear rooms with this set up (forced to use gun no aspect of luci) (doing a rando so stuck on this heat and weapon for now)

https://imgur.com/96BdUJv

[zenith fractal]

eris, get as many individual flat damage sources as you can (most common is zeus attack, poseidon dash, and an artemis/aphrodite special). you can find this "ZAP" build in the build-guide in the pinned messages of this channel.

[nimble idol]

thanks man

[zenith fractal]

note that this idea works well on all 3 non-hestia rails. I'm not recommending hestia at all here since you have damage control 1 on.

[nimble idol]

nice

[nimble idol]

https://imgur.com/phgFr1Y 24 total runs of h1 and i cleared tart with this heat (have a rando that starts me with high heat and a random weapon)

zag rail goes hard

[nimble idol]

its painful and the rando is only giving me darkness i cant spend T_T

i keep opening the debug display mid fight T_T

[plain river]

Wait

How much is this randomiser affecting

[keen siren]

so I remember watching Halien make a duo boon tier list and he put lightning rod in the B tier, not S. Hm, interesting choice.
I also remember another video of him playing lightning rod and him struggling to get the casts on the floor, and when they were they did this:

they did what? ya I would like to know the same thing, and I'm sure he would like to know as well
so much for hunting blades being better than lightning rod. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
and from that tier list, he placed hunting blades in S. again, interesting choice

you might say that's not interesting at all and that is just the reality, but some people seem to disagree
which is fair, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

even if their opinion is wrong

@zenith fractal

[plain river]

My understanding of its high value particularly for high heat is that the ROD affects a pretty massive radius around your thrown casts, allowing it to be pretty insane consistent and rapid damage output and static discharge/jolted application across a couple cast stones

which particularly helps slower aspects like Rama or Arthur deal wjth DC2 a ton while being really solid additional damage

[frank goblet]

also speeds for rama, ideally you want rod there as well as its just good damage and is good room clear for styx

[zenith fractal]

What shackle and frei said. Rod is definitely not S tier, but it does its job (cleaning up weak enemies) for you on almost everything. That's the sense I was saying it's better than hunting blades: not in pure damage, but in cleanup. You were trying to play hunting blades on everything, which while not the worst plan, relies heavily on getting additive buffs affecting the cast and has lower value the further away you are from the enemy you want to catch in hblades because your casts have a tiny range, and move around slowly (as opposed to rod which has a significant range and hence can probably hit the enemy even if it's on the edge of the screen).

While I most certainly don't always agree with what haelian says, this isn't one of those times. B is right. It is also fully possible he rated the boons by his enjoyment of them, which is absolutely fair to do, however that should never be confused for objective aspect strength. If I say "hunting blades is a worse boon than lightning rod" then that is not an opinion (indeed, personally (again, since you seem hung up on objectivity vs subjectivity, the following in the exterior parenthesis is my opinion, not an objective fact), I find running rod rather repetitive due to how much it can and has been used on basically every aspect), it's as close to an objective truth as there is.

Anyway, listen here. I don't like to use the "I am an authority on Hades the videogame" card against people, but it's partly by trying things and partly by listening to others that one understands topics far better than you currently do (and not just one source of information, but as many as possible. It's also important to make sure the points, info and tips of those people are properly understood).

I do not blame you for not knowing or not understanding things you've not experienced yet, what I DO blame you for is that you are biased and unwilling to listen to anything that doesn't support the narrative you don't already believe in.

I am sure you have heard of the "dunning-kruger" effect, and I have reason to believe it applies here.

It's fully possible I am wrong, but claiming I am wrong in something I say relating to Hades the videogame often means claiming all other top players are wrong about that thing (rod has a proven history as a clean-up tool and defensive option on any aspect that doesn't use casts as its main damage, in any category that doesn't ban rod or using casts outright), which is astronomically less likely than you just being uninformed. On another note, Hunting Blades is to no extent of the imagination S-tier either (high C at best); it has one main usecase, and that usecase is on achilles because of that aspect's innate very high additive cast damage bonus. It's 150% less worth of cast damage bonuses one has to look for during the run, compared to you looking for that boon on aspects that do not have this cast-buff.

Operation "ragebait alexca" successful

[nimble idol]

Infernal arms and Arm Aspect unlocks, locks the fear at 32h with unlocks to lower it keepsakes a few filler boosts that I haven't got many of, and supply's

But it also gives me items from set other games

Look up Hades archipelago when you get a chance

[hoary sleet]

Anyone have any tips for EM4 ||hades||? I've made it a personal goal to beat him with every weapon and so far ive succeeded with charon bow, and ive beaten normal mode without even taking damage before, but I feel like Im hitting a wall here How can I tell what I can do to just get over the edge?

[hoary sleet]

lol as soon as i posted this i beat him with the fists. still, any tips would be helpful :)

[proper furnace]

Rod reduces your cast pickup range by a lot if you didn't know yet

[frank goblet]

it even says so in its description iirc

[proper furnace]

Nah

Just that it zaps nearby and the bolt dmg pretty sure

[frank goblet]

why doesnt it mention that what

[zenith fractal]

alas 😔

[waxen dragon]

Does flurry cast make you throw out 2 casts each time? Was noticing that playing Achilles with ice wine

[tight basin]

No it just makes it so you can hold it

But if it's a high rarity then that could happen

Bc you technically held it long enough

[waxen dragon]

How long does the chill effect last? I was just running around trying to trigger killing freeze

[plain river]

10s

So significantly longer than other debuffs

[waxen dragon]

Does anything boost killing freeze?

[valid dagger]

Global dmg

[waxen dragon]

Does hunters mark trigger critical on any attack? Not just an Artemis attack?

[waxen dragon]

Oh nice.

[frank goblet]

global crit chance

[keen siren]

truth is, I said that the way I did and pinged you just to mess with you. I do hear you out, rod is a 32+ heat boon, its just that when I see rod or zag aspects, I think of you. so when I saw those two videos I thought, I could make a case against... what do I call you? Zag? I can make a case against zag, for humor's sake. when halian did the rod video, it was on 20 heat. my guess is that rod is good at high heat because enemies have increased health, shields, armor, and special effects making the chain happen more often for longer. for lower heat, blades is better because there's not a large amount of enemies or enemy health to "cut" through (pun intended)
you're good. I'm good. we're good.

[zenith fractal]

Call me AlexCA.

[ancient pivot]

I feel a bit out of my league here

[plain river]

How so?

There are a lot of newbies that ask questions here you cannot be under their league

[plain river]

(aka ask all the questions you want because it lets us share/teach/talk about Hades )

[proper furnace]

So true bestie

[frigid sentinel]

Does anyone have a good build for extreme measures hades?

[hoary sleet]

Chiron bow was how i beat him the first time

[frigid sentinel]

K ty

[frigid sentinel]

Do u remember which gods u went for?

[hoary sleet]

I think it was dio special+aphro attack, with privileged status on

get concentrated or relentless volley if you can, and twin shot can also be helpful

[frigid sentinel]

Tysm

[hoary sleet]

np, good luck, hes tough but ur tougher :)

[hollow rock]

anyone got a rama build?

[nimble idol]

https://imgur.com/S9MjgHy tips? (forced by a multi world randomiser {effects weapons pacts and builds}) ive got bow and spear with all aspects but secret and hades

[zenith fractal]

so, all spears and bows except Rama, GY and dadspear?

that's a bit of a vast question. there's a build guide in the pinned messages of the channel (https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide) that's pretty good enough to get you started.

if you are to want to play the actually strong aspects among those you have, it'd be one of:

• achilles
• hera
• zagbow

(with their corresponding build from the guide)

[nimble idol]

Thanksss

[ancient pivot]

I’m not

But compared to 32 heat guys

I can do up to 20-24 heat maybe

And I dont play that often

So…

[plain river]

“Compared to the 32 heat guys” brother there are people who ask questions here and they’re doing like 1-2 heat you’re fineee

you don’t need to regularly be playing at a certain level to talk about Hades or ask

Play at whatever heat level you want to btw. some people regularly play 20, some people regularly do 40-50, some people regularly do like 5 cuz they just don’t care to have it higher, and some people just run 9 because they’re speedrunning it doesn’t really change your ability to talk about Hades

[zenith fractal]

yeah it's absolutely fine to be wrong, the only thing I was yelling about earlier was the supposed unwillingness to even attempt to consider the other side of the argument once given evidence for one's knowledge being wrong (which was actually just ragebait). feel free to ask any questions and talk about the game (the only "dumb question"s are those that get asked regularly, where the user could just backread a few messages to get their answer), that's what these h1 channels are for.

[waxen dragon]

Frost strike really feels underwhelming without killing freeze. Well generally most of Dem stuff does, ice wine is not bad though

[tight basin]

Frost strike in general is pretty underwhelming lmao

A lot of the % modifiers are kinda just eh bc Aphrodite exists

[waxen dragon]

Hmm probably should have gone Aphrodite instead

[median ibex]

how do you get through elysium faster? i'm averaging ~4-6 minutes for all the other biomes (excluding styx >3 sack) but elysium takes me 10 minutes. i like to think my builds are solid by this point so i don't think it's that? but i could be wrong

i mainly use eris rail and beowulf/zeus if that helps

[tight basin]

eris and beowulf are considered some of the fastest aspects in the game, so it might be a build issue

what exactly are you using on them

[median ibex]

eris: typically zeus/ares attack, artemis special
beowulf: artemis/aphro attack, dio cast (i like to use stygian soul)

[median ibex]

i can get through theseus and asterius pretty fast, it's just the normal rooms i struggle with

[zenith fractal]

eris usually uses what we call a "ZAP" (Zeus Artemis Poseidon) build. Zeus attack, Artemis special, Poseidon dash. get associated tier 2 boons (most important are Static Discharge, Razor Shoals, Breaking Wave. if you can get your hands on the Splitting Bolt legendary boon by picking up Storm Lightning then that's great too).

beowulf (often "beo" for short) generally uses infernal soul, with Poseidon Cast and Artemis attack, and looks for the duoboon between the two (Mirage Shot). while Dionysus cast on Beowulf ("trippy beo") with stygian soul isn't completely out of the question, its build needs more things to go right (extra cast stones from charon wells and chaos) to compare to what Poseidon cast ("flood beo") can do on average.

zeus shield has two main speedrun builds. one, the simpler one, is called "zeus²", and is the strategy by far preferred in high heat. it means zeus special, then pick up every applicable zeus tier 2, as well as the legendary. there is however another strategy for zeus, "Merciful End" ("ME" for short). ME requires an ares attack and athena special to unlock, and after that benefits greatly from divine dash and impending doom. while ME works on basically anything, zeus is special in the sense that not only does it NOT necessarily need an additional divine dash from athena to do solid work as opposed to all other ME aspects, but it can also build ME the other way around , with ares special and athena attack.

feel free to look at people's runs on the hades speedrun.com page. that should give you a solid idea of what kinds of damage one can get a hold of and what choices to make to get this damage.

pay particular attention to their positioning between waves (limiting spawnable area on-screen to group enemies because enemies only appear near zagreus, we call it "spawn-manipulation"), damage-rotation, and boon-/hammer-choices.

of course, feel free to play the game however you like, I'm not here to tell you how to enjoy the game. because you're having trouble, I'm merely explaining what the problems might be and how to solve them.

[median ibex]

thank you! ☺️ i haven't been using splash dash much, so i'll give that a try. i've tried for ME in the past, but gotten spectacularly unlucky, but i will persevere!

[zenith fractal]

merciful end is a pretty needy strategy (in the sense that it needs a lot of boons to outperform competing strategies, zeus² in this case, even though optimally ME will always be stronger), it makes sense you'd have trouble getting it right.

are you familiar with the consistency-rules under which hades builds operate? the boon selection-procedure, and all that?

[median ibex]

not really! i know that core boons are typically always offered instead of tier 2s if there's an empty slot, but not much else

[zenith fractal]

there are multiple "phases" to it. if you don't mind, I'll try to find a certain message I'm thinking of which explains it in detail

that's the boon selection procedure

[median ibex]

hmm! i didn't know the duo chance was so low

[zenith fractal]

what this implies:

• having all four core boons filled (atk, spec, cast, dash) and having the god's priority boon (if applicable to that god) will increase your odds of seeing stuff that isn't coreboons or priority.
• opening different duoboons or legendaries (which I like to combine into the term "shiny boons", since both types work the same in terms of the procedure outside of trial-chambers) at once reduces the odds of getting the one you actually want
• yarns of ariadne, eurydice nectar, and chaos "favor" boons increase shiny chance by 10 %. god's legacy isn't your only tool to help get duos, in fact people usually run god's pride since there are so many other ways of increasing one's odds.

[zenith fractal]

that shiny probability is per slot, not the combined probability per boon menu. it does the 12% (regular rooms) or 10% (minibosses) shiny check for up to all 3 boon slots, if an unplaced shiny boon is still eligible.

also thought this message response of mine might help with making builds. this part is more about something called a "god-pool", that is to say how the game determines what gods to offer.

[visual hull]

anyone down to vc with me and coache me on a run?

[sand geyser]

Does this happen to anyone else or just me?

For me, the satyr sack is ALWAYS, like, 99% of the time in the 2nd regular room. However, if I try to go to that room first, it never is. Like, I've tested this many times

[zenith fractal]

Slightly above 50% of 2sack

And cannot get 1sack

Whether or not the sack appears in a given tunnel is calculated when zagreus is about to enter the final chamber of the tunnel, not at creation of the 5 tunnels

[grim knot]

You're technically luckier than average

For me it was always like. 4th room lol

[zenith fractal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1280885571224604758/1448438733828263996/Screenshot_2025-12-10_231809.png?ex=693b4330&is=6939f1b0&hm=566a5df617dce17e8f973115a33d42dd291862697a2eee0e8efc0132f88174b8& yeah I'd call that "luckier than average"

(math is slightly off since I used the wrong formula (didn't take into account the one non-2sack among the 100 runs, couldn't be bothered, just wanted a ballpark estimate), but regardless, the "99% of runs" figure is statistically improbable)

[zenith fractal]

this is very unlikely too though

4sack only has like a 10% chance of happening (I forget how much exactly)

I think this is either recency- or selection-bias on your part.

[plain river]

13.6

ish

[grim knot]

Assumed that was an overstatement (like he most of the time gets it in the 2nd tunnel) and so was my answer (I generally found the sack after 3-4 tunnels)

Of course it's not possible to get the same result 100% of the time

[plain river]

If you want a more precise breakdown, your actual odds are ~54.5/28.3/13.6/3.6% second-fifth

for what should on average happen

[sand geyser]

For the first time ever after playing twice and having hundreds of hours, I get Theseus using Artemis' aid

HE'S NEVER DONE SO

[plain river]

He can only use the calls of Gods you don’t have

so odds are you just took Artemis a ton

and so he never hit her

[sand geyser]

I do

xddd

[copper maple]

Look a good sword build for aspect of nemeis

[weak zenith]

aphro and arti core boons

ideally you would want aphro attack for big number but you want to start with arti's keepsake

her secondary boons are good for nem since it has crit

the "correct" way to start would be to take arti attack to unlock the secondary boons asap but if you are feeling cheeky you could take the special or whatever to unlock the secondaries and take aphors attack in asp or smth

• the duo isnt nessiairly but its nice

[torpid robin]

I was using the Aspect of Arthur. when I did the Special Hallowed Ground effect. I wonder if that inspire Melinoe's Cast circle in Hades 2

[nimble idol]

So im doing a multworld randomiser right (randos weapon unlocks keepsakes and has little boosters) and got to extreame messures who gave theseus dual miniguns T_T

[proper furnace]

is your first time doing em3 seriously on rando lol

that's funny

[nimble idol]

the rando puts em in reverse order but yeah XD

so i have em3 which means i dont have to do em meg

but em everyone else

and i gotta get lucky to lower my heat XD

[proper furnace]

lmfao

[nimble idol]

started at 44 and am down to 26

[proper furnace]

what's the goal on hades rando anyways

[nimble idol]

i think i set mine to beat hades one 3 weapons

[proper furnace]

credits/certain heat?

oh

[nimble idol]

but it could be 1 weapon

its only a beta one so no epilouge goal or nothing

you know what ill pull up the template to see all the goals

ahhh its hades clears and to actualy finish you can set how many fated list, keepsakes and weapon clears you need 🔥

aswell as how many hades clears 🔥

[proper furnace]

fated list to clear is nasty ngl

[nimble idol]

yeah and fated list are item checks xd

[proper furnace]

me when I'm gated behind chaos's legendary or something

[nimble idol]

So if i clear one it could give mothwing cloak in hollow knight

[proper furnace]

ye I know how the cross rando works, just didn't know for hades in specific

[nimble idol]

yeah my current solo rando had 4 games XD (hades, hollow knight, balatro, and slime rancher)

[nimble idol]

welp now i gotta do em hades (ive never fought hades before XD)

[plain river]

What the helly

[nimble idol]

XD

multiworld rando goes brrrr

you tend to get pact levels reduced quick so its designed to still give you a hard fight at the end while you can clear rooms quick with other weapons to get item checks

[plain river]

@hexed flint #h1-for-new-players is just to block you from getting story spoilers

if you’re past the main story you can just ask your questions here

[hexed flint]

ok

[forest quarry]

what's the best aspect for each weapon

including hidden aspects

[tight basin]

Nemesis, rama/Hera, Zeus/Beowulf, guan Yu/Achilles, Demeter, hestia/eris

The weapons with 2 options it's generally divided by heat/speed

But like Beowulf and eris are still pretty good for heat regardless

[keen siren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1436013405705076807/1450605882982531163/image.png?ex=69432581&is=6941d401&hm=373cc5e71a971af261e10664fac83956914a153538b343a0f6596cec1b90b168&

tell me that's not busted AF (without lying)

and this is the run Hades desides to let me go past him

[plain river]

This is like a pretty solid achilles build on Hades spear

[proper furnace]

Hunting blades gaming

[proper furnace]

Also classic

[zenith fractal]

the rod + hblades pickup range reduction anti-synergy is messing with me

run one or the other, make up your mind

[proper furnace]

Sgg patch the game just to add text about rod's reduction please

and then port pyre to switch

[unreal escarp]

What

[proper furnace]

lightning rod reduces your cast pickup range by a lot

[frank goblet]

^

[proper furnace]

this is not mentioned in game

[unreal escarp]

is lightning rod even good

[proper furnace]

yeah

if you aren't doing a cast build is just free passive dmg

and bc is zeus you are already picking up stuff like double strike and static discharge which work with rod

you only need 1 cast if you are using boiling blood

and if you aren't just shoot your casts at a wall in waiting periods

[frank goblet]

its the sought duo for rama speedruns for any heat, id say yes

[unreal escarp]

really i thought it had terrible range

[proper furnace]

nah is like, deceptively good?

if I had to make a guess if you shoot your cast around a pilar in dad's fight you have like a zag and a half of range, maybe a bit more is been a while

[unreal escarp]

zag is not very large

[proper furnace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1230649734008672347/1450688949197737984/image.png?ex=694372dd&is=6942215d&hm=8026599593a2ce94e5b3484e72d2df7ad9b3a2168c239c9ab8778e87e8cae984& something like this vibe based (from zag to pillar, give a bit more prob)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1230649734008672347/1450689188100837537/image.png?ex=69437316&is=69422196&hm=54d0c1800193dc3529171da8fbb61fb3cbe6af7c1ecf154e02d62db190c84ee7& and this is from the github wiki but idk how to pass the numbers to in game lol

[unreal escarp]

wouldnt its range be represented as a radius

oh the spear spin attack max charge is 500

i suppose that is fairly generoius

[proper furnace]

if you have spare gold you can also buy extra stones for rod

also good call charge due to amount of hits

[plain river]

Range of 900 is 50% larger than Snow Burst btw

[plain river]

50% larger than snow burst is like the inner walls of the left and right corners of the dad fight unironically

or more like the distance between the center of each pillar to the other

[hexed flint]

anyone have advice for beating 32 heat with chiron bow
I tried using dio on special, aphro on attack, and poseidon on dash if I can, which is what I was using on lower heat but I kept dying on 32 attempts
so I switched to prioritizing athena dash, but using athena keepsake in asphodel meant not always getting aphro so my build kinda fell apart

the pact I've been using is pretty normal, with td2 js2, lc4
but I was using damage control tho

I will probly try switching to lc2 & death defiances bc I lose most of my runs to bosses

[tight basin]

what's the rest of your pact?

chiron is a bit dubious for higher heats, but if you're comfortable with that then it should be fine

the main issue with chiron is the slower special animation, so you're spending a lot of time standing still which is prob when you're getting hit

if you're using forced overtime in your pact, i can see why you'd be having trouble

[ancient pivot]

Bro I get Athena, ares, Aphrodite and Artemis and Dionysus in one run but not a single duo boon

Just my luck

[shell root]

oof

[red iris]

Quick question about Dionysus. Does Black Out stack?

[zenith fractal]

it's an additive buff like any other

[proper furnace]

I think they mean if you have multiple fog active = more dmg
Which pretty sure it doesn't

[gusty halo]

Is shattered shackle good with aspect of Arthur?

[zenith fractal]

As a starting keepsake? Sure.

You should run something (usually poseidon dash) alongside it and consider possibilities to stop depending on it along the way though.

[hexed flint]

does the debuff from talos special contribute to privileged status

[proper furnace]

No

[chilly vessel]

ok rude
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695435127584587786/1451399050506014720/damnitt.PNG?ex=69460833&is=6944b6b3&hm=4e9b0f7ac4b5e5e38f48cf09b49a34076cb4f7a4e9e3f71019fca448191ab4fb&

[modern falcon]

i'd crash out, wdym you got rid of my legendary boon

and it's an extre dd too

[waxen dragon]

Ugh failed 3 times in a row on Nemesis 🫣 tried extreme measures 4 and forced overtime 40

[mortal quiver]

I know the game is random I know it is but that seems so personal

[rough blade]

forced overtime level 40 where enemies move at +800% speed

[shell root]

at that speed the cat chariot in elysium would be impossible to dodge

[shell root]

this is why I never use that pact of punisment, I would crash tf out if merciful end got blocked

[modern falcon]

real

[plain river]

Honestly it’s just more trouble than it’s worth till past 40 heat imo

then all your remaining options suck so much that it’s like fine

[weak zenith]

999358269422321774 i got mirrage (run winning duo) denied 4 times in one run

[waxen dragon]

Yeah I struggled with the timing

[waxen dragon]

Do people just stick to the one aspect and work on it until they can consistently clear under a certain time? Or jump around depending which one gets the darkness bonus?

[modern falcon]

i stick to shield most of the time

[plain river]

I flip flop around

sometimes I focus on one, other times I set a goal that I want to meet for all the weapons like all aspects sub10 or all aspects 32 heat

or all weapons sub9

[waxen dragon]

I flip flop but aim to be sub 20 minutes

[red iris]

I used to go for whatever weapon had the bonus. Currently I'm trying to get 32 heat on all aspects so I'm sticking with one weapon for now

Speaking of specific aspects: Does the buff from Achilles work with Ares/Demeter cast?

[plain river]

Yes

It would be a massive oversight if it didn’t ngl

But I can absolutely say it does like any other cast bonus

[red iris]

Okay I can see how it's a bit of a dumb question for Ares but for Demeter I figured it might be a bit weird since it's a deployed object that shoots a projectile rather than being the projectile itself

The question now is: is it actually good with them compared to the single hit damage from something like Aphrodite or Athena cast

[plain river]

Yes.

Although

[frank goblet]

it can be good, its kinda considered a meme build to my understanding

[plain river]

Ares and Athena are the best options really

and Aphro and Dem not really

[plain river]

It’s more about the actual nature of the cast rather than strictly the amount of hits:base damage they have

[red iris]

I see

Although I've had a bigger question on my mind regarding when it's more worth it to use Zeus or Dionysus compared to Aphrodite on my attack boon

Like I know the faster weapons want Zeus and Dio because they can take greater use of their effects but where's the cutoff where it becomes more efficient to just make the weapon itself do more damage?

[plain river]

The cut off is pretty much sword bow and shield

The base damage is high enough that +% damage far outstrips the flat damage that could possibly be added

even when factoring in global damage buffs that would scale better on flat damage

except sword and shield can still use Merciful End, since it pretty much just adds astronomical amounts of additive damage

[red iris]

so sword, bow and shield are the ones that want +% over flat?

Or am I getting it backwards?

[plain river]

yeah

for the most part

[red iris]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/792227247742124052/1452187953551118448/W7RkyAAAABklEQVQDAJqUkDW5dzS7AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC.png?ex=6948e6ec&is=6947956c&hm=109bd232bba3ca98fdd9cf1d02b3762e7f14cc83c8a87c30a73cc5e300f7b609&=&format=webp&quality=lossless Here's a rough idea of my impressions on the weapons

(Not ordered within tiers and I probably placed one on the opposite side of where I think it should be due to due to me being tired)

[plain river]

Eris is in prefers +% damagev

!?!

you couldn’t be farther wrong

Eris is flat damage the weapon

Zag bow and hera are not “could go either way” really

at least I’m mainly talking about their strikes here

If you’re factoring in specials this immediately becomes like a useless tierlist ngl

[red iris]

"Yeah of course I am It's ability is to-" https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/792227247742124052/1452189152249643101/image.png?ex=6948e80a&is=6947968a&hm=f11658f97bb5c878a7c30796dfdf6644ea1903619eac1b9fa9a955b9373bce7c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

Wait a second

[plain river]

because you’re going to have a lot of things split because their strike likes flat damage and their special likes +%

[plain river]

I’ confused what you mean right now

[red iris]

Does this affect the flat damage as well?

[plain river]

like Eris global +% affects everything, zag bows crit chance makes it want +% even harder so the crit can multiply harder, and hera wants +% because the bow strike does high enough base damage that it wants +%

for their strikes

Eris wants flat damage from strike, utility, dash and call really

since that’s all getting amped massively

[red iris]

I see yeah that makes sense

[plain river]

Zag sword doesn’t really prefer flat damage

+15% attack speed doesn’t really make it worth it to try standing striking over dash-striking unless you go for world splitter in which case you want +% for the 90 base damage chops

zag rail and luci also prefer flat damage strikes a ton unless you get like spread fire for zag rail then +% is absolutely ok but flat damage will still knock out of the park just as well tbh

Case in point: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1413285194961780766/3EC2CADF-8DA7-4F46-B0E3-66DF720F90F8.jpg?ex=69487068&is=69471ee8&hm=5bb98020849f8f14ba8d6afd1aceeca8f5579ded2340ad7701c753488724dec5&

[plain river]

Beo would really prefer +% strikes given it’s heightened base damage, slowness and general reliance on artemis for hitting mirage shot but also again the base damage to speed

[red iris]

Yeah I'll admit that's the first thing I looked at after posting and went "that doesn't look right"

I think I was mostly biased from my Dionysus run with it going really well and from it being the first thing I ranked

[plain river]

It absolutely can use flat damage

don’t get me wrong

actually it’s best build is probably merciful End

eh

which is flat damage

just inconsistent

[red iris]

Honestly I was considering to including Ares with Dionysus and Zeus in my original question but I felt like the answer was just “Merciful end” so I didn't bother

[modern falcon]

whoa that victory screen looks a lot different, what's with all the chaos stuff?

[plain river]

It’s a victory theme you can purchase

it’s just aesthetic

[modern falcon]

ah i see

[plain river]

Zag spear strike is probably the most flat damage required of the spears

achilles is often choosing between zeus and artemis but zag spear doesnMt have the additive to make artemis worthwhile

Rama absolutey prefers +% for strike and then flat damage special but it’s like

trying to categorise them like this is weird that’s why I’ve been sticking to just analysing strikes really

Putting any of the fists in “prefers +%” is just wrong ngl. It’s pretty much only flat damage strikes and +% specials

small niche for talos with heavy knuckle

and maybe a place if you were occasionally standing striking on gilgamesh since those are 60 base damage standing strikes

they’re just really slow

[red iris]

I did factor in the specials but specifically with the mindset of “why am I using this aspect?” Take Hestia for example: the nature of the rail makes flat damage on strike viable but if you're going to use flat over %+ on Hestia specifically then you're throwing away the weapons gimmick

[plain river]

So like actually

Hestia can use flat damage without really throwing away the gimmick

at least

sort of

because of the attack speed ares isn’t out of the question and just grabbing a bunch of chaos additive

which is

really weird

and ill advised

but it is the speed record on hestia atm

[red iris]

That is… unexpected

I mean I see it working

[plain river]

crack armour, hit regular enemy hp with the doom damage

it’s like

it was unplanned as far as I know

It just happened to have superb pace and was piloted by someone really good at Hestia

[red iris]

Honestly I feel like Ares is in a weird position in this conversation because he is flat damage but it's still burst damage compared to Zeus and Dio’s “death by a thousand cuts” approach

[plain river]

He’s flat damage but the only way he’s ever used it by making him immediate burst damage

[red iris]

I was just about to mention that

[red iris]

So it feels more in line with the percent damage Boons because you want a slower weapon to not get “redundant”(for lack of a better word ) hits.
But on the other hand if you're running Ares then you probably want merciful end which prefers a faster weapon because you need to reapply/trigger it as often as possible

[plain river]

It’s just too slow otherwise

for merciful end the only aspect that matters is that it can dash-strike

[red iris]

What about that one boom that lets you stack Doom?

[plain river]

doesn’t really matter when you’re immediately dropping doom right after applying it by hitting with divine dash

since 1 dash-strike both applies and drops the doom

[red iris]

True but at least from like a game design perspective my guess is that they wanted it to make Doom usable on faster weapons and just underestimated how strong merciful end was

[plain river]

yeah

but it just doesn’t really matter

at least like

my sleep deprived brain is gunning for the most blunt answer atm

It’s certainly meant to do thst but cannot be used effectively in practice

[red iris]

Fair enough. I think the biggest thing I've taken away from this conversation is that an alignment chart would have been better then a tier list

[plain river]

I wouldn’t try to represent it with a chart really since

eh

like

you could but then look at the castpects where the main focus of most builds is how the strike plays into the special to accent both the weapon and boost the cast

[plain river]

Isn’t this missing like 6 aspects btw

I didn’t see arthur and I can’t tell who else

Wait I’m blind and can’t count

that’s 24

My bad

[red iris]

True but it would still be better than what I did currently

[plain river]

for sure

Off the top of my head I think the funniest thing one could do would be sorting the aspects by whether or not they’re ranged weapons or not and you’d only have the spears and hestia and chiron on the ranged side

which is like super related because it’s also a table the same way an alignment chart is and

Maybe I’ve lost the plot

[red iris]

“Sorting the weapons based on which one is coolest” (My main is number one, yours is at the bottom)

[plain river]

zag bow/ zag rail at the bottom 💔

[red iris]

My favorite when I started was aspect of Hades but now that I'm doing 32 heat all aspects it's kind of all over the place

[plain river]

Sorting weapons based on how many eyes they have
2: Lucifer, Zag rail
1: Chaos
0: everything else

[plain river]

Is this like a spin to win Hades spear main or an explosive launcher Hades spear main

[red iris]

Actually all of the shields have at least one visible eye https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/792227247742124052/1452199818876420097/image.png?ex=6948f1f9&is=6947a079&hm=023068dbd40587ab51cbecbe412356ae7bfb997748c44445482505015d5b5520&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

From top to bottom
-Two in the snake face
-The Shield is the eye (Although you could argue that this is actually six eyes due to the bonus shields)
-Two in the face
-1 In the top of the Dragon sculpture

[plain river]

bruh

I guess this goes to show how much I play with the shield if I’m not using them for speedrunning milestones

That I forgot that zeus shield has a massive face on it

💔

Does hera have eyes or are those just weird balls

[red iris]

Actually Zeus could be argued to have four because you can throw a copy of the shield while still using it

[plain river]

Then chaos has 6

and I don’t like that

[red iris]

it fits them

[plain river]

As the definitive expert in the field

I’m gonna split the difference and Chaos has 3.5

[red iris]

Looks like skulls to me https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/792227247742124052/1452200825681350787/image.png?ex=6948f2e9&is=6947a169&hm=81f808ca2260fc14a3852ca770e6fc0f06aacbeb8d709a26433f674751921066&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

4 * 2 is 8 so yeah 8 eyes

[plain river]

Ok good

Chaos isn’t winning a category

8: Hera
6: Chaos
4: Zeus
2: Zag Rail / Lucifer
0: every other aspect

[red iris]

2 of the swords are candidates. Nemesis has 2 due to the handguard being a skull but the face on the sword of zagreus actually gives it... 4 due to it being printed on both sides (You can see it by letting the weapon spin on display)