h1-builds-and-combat

[plain river]

I’m trying to push for not having that barrier to your gameplay

[worthy jasper]

The special button is also like on a controller it's not as easy to reach from the dash button as the attack button. I know that might not mean anything to other people. But it makes dash upper awkward.

[proper furnace]

I remapped upper to a shoulder button for that

I don't like default special

Swapped special and summon to be specific

[worthy jasper]

I was worried someone might say that.

[proper furnace]

Used to the control scheme by now?

[plain river]

I haven’t remapped

I also haven’t properly used the fists damage rotation in a

I just special when it feels like I’ll need it

[worthy jasper]

It's very infrequent that I stray away from the default controller setup.

[plain river]

I change my setup for hera and beo

Andnthat’s it

400 hours in and the muscle memory is crazy

[worthy jasper]

Also this idea of going like one two three.

Like some kind of set rhythm.

Actually that video earlier.

[proper furnace]

For hera and beo I do a stupid thing

[worthy jasper]

I was watching the Hestia rotation and it made no sense. There was zero delay between the reload and the dash. That's like superhuman bpm.

[proper furnace]

Beo is attack in trigger, cast on Y (switch)
But for hera I do the opposite

[plain river]

Animation canceling lets you get out of reload and move

[proper furnace]

It just feels right like that but idk lmao

[plain river]

Also Jazz is a speedrunner it’s in her blood

[worthy jasper]

No I know that

I'm saying the time between hitting reload and hitting dash is almost nonexistent.

[proper furnace]

Jazz is just gamer

[worthy jasper]

Like if I didn't know that reloading needed to happen I wouldn't even know the reload button was pressed.

[vagrant crane]

my hestia rotation sucks

[plain river]

Why is speedrun.com so slow

[vagrant crane]

its actually the worst website ever invented

[plain river]

Like

For a website about speed

They really didn’t deliver

[worthy jasper]

Everything is slow to a speedrunner it seems.

[vagrant crane]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_31xHK8YBCY&feature=youtu.be

[plain river]

Jazz what’s your main category

[vagrant crane]

?

[proper furnace]

Speedrun.com is just sad

[plain river]

Modded anyheat yeah?

[vagrant crane]

i guess

thats what i play the most

[plain river]

Hmm

Idk I think you would rock at supersoaker

[vagrant crane]

im not doing that

[plain river]

[vagrant crane]

anyways my main cat is actually loyalty card dont @ me

[analog mauve]

Oooooh

[plain river]

[plain river]

Genuinely better than my experience today

[vagrant crane]

i cannot believe the ad banner litrally covers your profile button

its horrendous

worse than fandom

[plain river]

Honestly

When does Hades transfer to wiki.gg

[proper furnace]

When someone wants to

[vagrant crane]

when someone puts in the work to make the wiki decent

which nobody has done yet

[proper furnace]

Convince haelian to promote it too or it'll get drowned by fandom anyways

[vital night]

typhoons or breaking

[analog mauve]

breaking weave

[crude oriole]

there is no hades wiki, decent or not, on wiki.gg yet is there? or i just didn't find it

[dapper harness]

There's a fando wiki but no wiki.gg for Hades

[worthy jasper]

Loyalty card is a category?

The run just ends of you randomly find a bag and beat Charon?

[eager flint]

yeah

[worthy jasper]

One thing I don't get though.

Let's assume that I am unable to play optimally at this point in time.

Why does that lead to 'don't bother trying to do better, just do whatever because nothing matters'?

Like idk to me that sounds like "don't bother playing this game in the first place".

[blissful panther]

If you have the revenge boons of both atena and ares and you pair that with their duo boon, does the doom effect activate instantly?

[worthy jasper]

I thought I'd answer that but then I realized I don't actually know.

Athena's revenge boon is a temporary shield after being hit, right?

And I guess Ares's revenge boon is just putting Doom on the attacker?

Logic would assume the attacker would have to attack you a second time to pop the Doom.

Or at the very least you'd have to touch them?

[plain river]

wdym

Ares revenge boon doesn’t just put doom on the attacksr

It’s an aoe around you

[worthy jasper]

Oh right.

[plain river]

With a size larger than tidal dash

[worthy jasper]

So do you know the answer?

[plain river]

I fairly certain it won’t prok unless you actually lose hp

same with the rest of revenge boons

[plain river]

From my perspective (at least) it’s more of, if you’re pursuing optimal play, you’d want to pursue the optimal method of playing too now?

With fists as an example, at the very very least, throwing in a special every so often the same way you cast for boiling blood

[worthy jasper]

I mean would it surprise you to hear I only cast against bosses and such? Maybe the occasional armoured brute?

[analog mauve]

that is normal

[plain river]

Yeah that’s normal

you’d be specialing a bit more often then that but

[worthy jasper]

I think, and I still haven't gotten past that, is that there's a whole lot I'd need to change all at once to be able to play at that level.

Like I struggle enough with the Hestia rotation.

[analog mauve]

you dont have to use special for hestia

i have never used special for hestia

in my rotation

[plain river]

you can just use attack for hestia if you want

[worthy jasper]

....kinda thankful that RNG kind of ended up working the Hestia build that run because what I ended up getting was way easier for me to manage.

No no I'm just saying I can't even do the Hestia rotation well.

[plain river]

Reload and dash?

[worthy jasper]

Like for some reason there's turns where I dash before reloading. I don't want to it just happens.

[plain river]

If you skip special it’s pretty much just reloading and dashing

then hit the lab w/ skelly for a few minutes

[worthy jasper]

And there's no way I can do it at a speed where the reload animation doesn't even happen.

[plain river]

?

[worthy jasper]

I don't mean to be rude but you're going to have to elaborate.

I don't speak question mark.

[plain river]

sorry

That’s

My bad

I just wanted to pause there while I double checked reload cancelling because

It is just as much as attacking/specialing/dashing before the animation finishes iirc

[worthy jasper]

The point I was originally making is if I can't even handle a Hestia rotation that's basically just three buttons in sequence.

I dread doing something like dash strike twice and then special while ALSO paying attention to where I'm moving.

[plain river]

it is essentially just strike reload and dash if you arenmt specialling

which

might take a while to keep everything straight mentally

But if you put the work in it will eventually coordinate

[worthy jasper]

Like at that point the game is starting to feel like a fighting game and there's a reason I don't play those.

Because every time I try and people try to give me advice they don't understand that I'm just not on their level.

It's like nobody knows what it's like to hit buttons and have things happen that don't match what you're trying to make happen.

[plain river]

Ngl that’s how my sword and spear gameplay go

But honestly it’s been so long since I started that I genuinely have a hard time remembering or resonating with the lack of coordination, which makes it hard for me to think about how to help

is lack of coordination even the right phrase to apply?

[worthy jasper]

Or nobody understands the sheer amount of information the screen throws at me every... I'd say .05 seconds or so that I have to all process while also conveying the proper commands to my fingers etc.

Not an exact number or even a real representation of a real thing.

[plain river]

I get that

[worthy jasper]

Like some people just have a subconscious algorithm for that. I don't.

[plain river]

It’s experience after a certain point

[worthy jasper]

Like somebody tried to teach me the concept of a punish in Smash, which is probably one of the least intensive fighting games when it comes to reaction speed.

[plain river]

I absolutely suck at ascertaining large amounts of info at once unless it’s Hades

and I think my case is just time spent

I think

[worthy jasper]

I do not deny that there is a possibility that some of these things may come to me more naturally over time.

I don't think there's any actiony game I excel at.

Most of those Bayonetta style games that rely on split second evasions, I tend to just get those by spamming evasion.

That's also how I tend to avoid attacks in Hades. Just dash around and hope I get the timing right.

[analog mauve]

lol thats literally the whole game

ur good

[worthy jasper]

Or just face tank asterius's spin to win.

[plain river]

I’m dashing around hoping to get the timing right at 40 heat here

I just have a tinsy bit of a better idea on timing

but I die often enough that you wouldn’t think so

I wouldn’t be discouraged by it

[worthy jasper]

In fact the other reason I like to get weak in my build beyond just the fact that weak has synergy with a bunch of builds like heard rend or that thing with hangover, is just the fact that weak allows for more mistakes? Is it that unreasonable?

[plain river]

Weak does just work for crit and hangover builds

You aren’t wrong

It’s a valid thing to want in your build

As far as I was trying to convey

There are often better ways to apply it in your kit than your dash

[worthy jasper]

Even the guide recommends passion dash at times.

[plain river]

aphrodite works well for crit, for hangover, and anything else because smouldering air just works

at times

“The guide” being https://www.leereamsnyder.com/hades-build-guide?

[worthy jasper]

I think it was that yes

[plain river]

I can only really think of passion dash for tripleshot zag bow

Maybe crit nem if you want to do a reach and include deadly reversal with aphrodite/artemis

[worthy jasper]

Well it literally says Dio fists aphro dash.

I checked.

[plain river]

Which is… a way

[worthy jasper]

As for passion dash on bow feels finnicky like what guarantee is there you'll hit enemies with that?

[plain river]

to build hangover fists

[plain river]

The fact that with triple shot bow you’re playing it like a shotgun

[proper furnace]

Something something bow is a melee weapon

[plain river]

Although I would personally just rather take aphrodite strike on bow

[worthy jasper]

Yeah I get that you need to be right in front. But what if your dash stops just short of that?

[plain river]

you’re up in their face, your dash will end up going a bit beyond their face

[worthy jasper]

I mean I use zag bow for now anyway so I usually just use her strike anyway.

[plain river]

you have to be close close for shotgunning to work

And the level of closeness

[worthy jasper]

Like I don't even need help getting crits, just put Artemis anywhere and get heart rend and hunter's mark.

[proper furnace]

Dash away if you miss the dash to be safe or dash into them again to try again

[plain river]

Practically guarantees it will hit anyways

I’m not too sure how much I can condone the guide as a perfect way to build all weapons

It’s a good guideline

And it promotes experimentation (which is good)

But at the same time I end up going at decisions

Ie. Promoting splitting headache is mega questionable

[analog mauve]

splitting headache carried my first eris 54 run 🗣️ best boon. ever

[plain river]

Bronze skin carried my 40 heat run, is it good

[analog mauve]

yes 🔥 💯

[crude oriole]

no one is born being good at hades, the people who play high heat or do speed running all have played the game for hundreds of hours

[plain river]

Most aren’t equipped to be teaching other ppl Hades but still try anyways in their own way

It usually ends up working but

[proper furnace]

(and tbh, on top of the hours is people who really want to improve into the meta)

There is probably quite a lot of people with hundreds of hours who just vibe to keeo getting dialogue

[analog mauve]

i was born goated at hades

its true

[plain river]

I mean yeah experience without the drive to suceed or energy being used to improve their gameplay isn’t exactly doing much

[crude oriole]

yeah but even then you get better and faster at processing what is happening on screen and how to react

[plain river]

I actually came out of the womb getting a sub5

[crude oriole]

does that mean you are also 5 years old? because you shouldn't use discord if you're under 13😤

[plain river]

No I’m a time traveller

[analog mauve]

based

[plain river]

I got sent back in time to break the Hades speedrun wr’s early

[analog mauve]

happens to the best of us

[plain river]

Focusing on the best category of all

Supersoaker

64 heat

[analog mauve]

supersoaker 64 heat sub5 (rta) with loyalty card (unmodded)

hitless

[plain river]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/795659377755422742/1204058724055130122/B454B1B4-F936-482E-BD57-0695BA17A0B7.jpg?ex=65d35a12&is=65c0e512&hm=c3608fff19660abdf5a76c0371c52376bce571f22a1c093ca155c684f4efcb9c&

[analog mauve]

i dont see the loyalty card

[plain river]

My wrong screenshot

[analog mauve]

oh understandable

[plain river]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/795659377755422742/1204059338675847188/85305852-D843-46B0-93AE-B9618AC2E5AB.jpg?ex=65d35aa4&is=65c0e5a4&hm=530bf303500430e9255a6a2c279452a6258e82133cfeab9278cbc89f5b8773e6&

[analog mauve]

i often mix up my unmodded supersoaker sub5 64 runs too

[analog mauve]

gg

[plain river]

Holy this was like

200 wins ago

[worthy jasper]

People can be born with some natural ability to get good. Or some natural inability to.

[plain river]

That was the last time I did super soaker to my understanding

[worthy jasper]

People aren't all the same in that regard.

[plain river]

Or the last time I posted super soaker

[worthy jasper]

Like if there wasn't such a thing as natural aptitude we'd have more people getting math degrees.

[analog mauve]

man hitless is so stressful

[worthy jasper]

Or being ace basketball players

Or w/e.

I'd like to think I'm halfway decent at card games, or other games that are predominantly numbers based.

[analog mauve]

im pretty bad at all games

[worthy jasper]

And I'm fairly sure not everyone can reach my level in the time I spent on it. Nor do I think I can reach the level some other people have.

[analog mauve]

whhops

i hope no one saw that

[crude oriole]

i mean, yeah. but you don't know wether you have the potential to get good until you try

the point was, you said if you're not fast enough now that sounds to you like you shouldn't play the game. i disagree, you can try to get better and faster

unless you simply don't want to. but i got the impression you want to play the game

[worthy jasper]

Well, the thing that someone said sort of implied I wasn't interested in getting better at all and I should just play however I feel like because "none of it matters".

But when "none of it matters", to me that means there's no point in playing the game.

Which I don't really agree with.

I think there is value in strategies that work better for people of lower skill levels.

Even if those strategies will be abandoned later on as you get better. IF you get better.

"Why would you ever take this boon if you can just do insert advanced high level maneuver here?"

It made me feel like a criminal for not playing at uber mega expert level.

[crude oriole]

oh ok, i missed that context then. yeah i've had that happen here before as well, trying to understand something and someone just going "don't worry about it" because at low level, it doesn't matter what weapon aspect or boon you take... if you are skilled enough it does feel sorta condescending and gatekeepy sometimes

i'm chalking it up to people having spent a lot of time both here or on the speedrun discord and the game so they've heard all these questions and concerns before and are getting tired if it. don't think it's personal

also, for every user acting like that there's five others patient enough to go over the most basic things again and again and encourage new players

[glacial sonnet]

doing poseidon build
exit wounds is censored by approval pact

[eager flint]

Classic AP

All my homies hate AP

[analog mauve]

dont take ap

[crude oriole]

imo the worst thing sbout ap is that it actually shows you the thing(s) you can't take

[eager flint]

imo the worst thing about AP is that it sucks

And also it can randomly throw your run by denying things that should frankly be baseline

[glacial sonnet]

once i have customs and ap i only need to do the timer pact to get them tbloods

i hear excalibur is best for boonless run?

or less punishing

at least i got lightning phalanx this run

inb4 have to purge it

[proper furnace]

Hestia works better I'd say

[glacial sonnet]

i also got dedge AP'd at the very start of the run

[worthy jasper]

Gonna try a weird suggestion from the guide.

Hera bow, stygian soul, trippy shot?

[unreal tree]

should have added 'perfect clear'

[vagrant crane]

were u using this mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovWUhk5Ho-A

[glacial sonnet]

underworld customs put 2/3 duos on purging pool

goodbye hermes 40% movespeed

[eager flint]

I'd purge most duos over that lol

[glacial sonnet]

hoarding slash
5% of current coin
558x0.05: 26 extra dmg
does this scale with other boons or do i just act like i have no boon

ok i pretend like there isnt bc i finally got exit wounds right before fighting dades

[worthy jasper]

How does chain shot interact with hera bow?

Als do I use that or point blank shot?

[proper furnace]

Hoarding is applied after all the other calculations

[plain river]

Game glitched after “Hermes would be jealous” was supposed to be added

Not my fault

[proper furnace]

Cast releases at first enemy it hits pretty sure

[vagrant crane]

for hera best hammers are flurry > twin = triple

but point blank would be better

[worthy jasper]

Yeah but those weren't my options

[plain river]

after twin & triple it’s perfect & point blank

So point blank works fine

[worthy jasper]

Huh? Watch my languages? Did I use a bad word?

This run is so cursed, the heroes stripped all three defiances.

Weird, did I use a bad word in there?

The first duo I find is in flipping styx and it's gosh dang exclusive access?

"Put a boon in every slot" they said, "It'll get you more duos" they said.

[eager flint]

Yeah, the bot removes every message with a cuss word, it's pretty large

[worthy jasper]

I just don't remember using any.

I am so going to freaking die to Hades

Why is hera bow so freaking awful?

[vagrant crane]

what's your build

hera is one of the best aspects in the game

[worthy jasper]

Nothing.

I didn't get anything.

[vagrant crane]

on hera your build can be composed of one boon

just need crush shot

and poms for it

[vital night]

No extra stones?

He’s doing trippy Hera

[vagrant crane]

oh

trippy hera is not going to be very fun

its so heavily rng reliant

[vital night]

Ideally you have 2/3 extra stones

[worthy jasper]

Stones?

[vagrant crane]

yeah but that's not somethign you can guarantee

cast stones

[vital night]

Yeah ik

[worthy jasper]

Oh no I had one chaos gate and it gave me cast damage not stones.

[vagrant crane]

that's fine too

if you're not on trippy

[worthy jasper]

23%

[vagrant crane]

minimum is 30

[vital night]

That’s rough

Did you check wells for Prometheus stones

[worthy jasper]

Well idk it was some low number.

[vagrant crane]

cast damage goes from 30 to 40 for common, 40 to 60 for rare, 60 to 80 for epic

[worthy jasper]

What wells? I only found like two in the whole run.

[vital night]

Between biomes

[vagrant crane]

there are guaranteed wells in every midbiome

as well as usually some in rooms

[worthy jasper]

I didn't count those.

[vagrant crane]

you can generally find 2 in ely

sometimes the game says no

and gives u no wells

but the easiest way to succeed on hera is with crush shot

[worthy jasper]

Either way no cast stones there.

[vital night]

If you find a well with a Prometheus stone, might be a good idea to equip hourglass and roll with it

Tragic

[worthy jasper]

The only duo boon I got was exclusive access.

In styx

[vagrant crane]

generally on hera people equip hourglass for ely

you don't need any particular duos on hera

[worthy jasper]

Like the zeus dio one

[vital night]

Also as for the hestia cycle, hestia is my favorite rail aspect and I still do the thing where I reload cancel early too many times and I don’t get a shot off

[worthy jasper]

Or even the dio demeter one

[vagrant crane]

scin feast is kinda meh

and ice wine can be annoying because it adds delay

[vital night]

Turning on aim assist and turning aim at cursor off is really good so you can focus on movement and cycling

[vagrant crane]

the main thing you'd want would be mirage shot

because trippy on hera is bugged to deal double damage with mirage shot

instead of 30%

[worthy jasper]

Cursor?

[vital night]

Idk what the controller equivalent is

[vagrant crane]

there is none

[vital night]

Just don’t aim

[vagrant crane]

because you're already aiming with the movement stick

[vital night]

Have the game do it for you

Oh

[vagrant crane]

on controller aiming isnt nearly as much of an issue

because the lock on is a lot more aggressive

[vital night]

Yeah I’m talking about hestia

[worthy jasper]

Idk when I hold the button I can move the arrow around, but if I don't do that it just snaps to an enemy

[vital night]

Per his previous messages

[vagrant crane]

meant controller not hera

[vital night]

Ye so try and not focus on aiming if it’s locking on for you

[vagrant crane]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1019DSLlyHwg7_oIiN3Il-NUYdHEbl783G7ZvstFSCD4/edit

[worthy jasper]

Like I do not usually miss.

[vagrant crane]

yeah aiming should be fine on controller

its only kbm where you need to sometimes do weird things to aim

except luci where people do mouse tech on controller lol

[worthy jasper]

I thought it could be fun to do trippy shot so I can use stygian soul for some variety.

[vagrant crane]

it can be fun but it's really rng reliant for extra stones

[worthy jasper]

Like passion shot is boring.

It's the thing everyone does.

[vagrant crane]

if you want variety try phalanx

[worthy jasper]

Not sure why the boon is called Trippy Flare tho. I thought Flare was for beo shield.

[errant narwhal]

They’re effectively the same aren’t they. Crush shot at home

[vagrant crane]

because it's altered to pop at the end of the thing instantly

[vital night]

If you like constant variety, start tidal dash on everything and then just go with what the game gives you

[vagrant crane]

and its buggy so it fits with the beowulf theme

[vital night]

Alternatively plume zag fist

[worthy jasper]

I did that on hestia rail. And my build ended up something completely different.

I mean I won and it was fun, but it was weird.

[vital night]

As long as you have a percentage on your attack it’s usually fine

[worthy jasper]

Well, the thingy chose the bow.

[vagrant crane]

you can shackle through if not

[worthy jasper]

And the last time the thingy chose the fists it was just after I did a plume sword run.

So I didn't want to do a plume run again.

[vital night]

I c

[worthy jasper]

I like plume runs.

Lots of boon variety while still being relatively effective.

I knew I took a risk when I selected a cast weapon, but once again, I wanted some variety.

[vagrant crane]

if u want variety on hera

try phalanx shot

with aph atk

and shadow presence

and go for parting shot

phalanx hitbox is so big that it can backstab from the front

[worthy jasper]

And I know that feels bad runs just happen some times.

Like the one time I decide to go to do things that people say get me more duos, I actually got less duos.

I know that's just random chance.

But it feels bad man.

[vagrant crane]

sometimes u just dont get the duo

it also takes a very long time to learn most of what will help your chances

[worthy jasper]

Maybe I should have picked the other mirror ability for that run.

The one with more duos.

[vagrant crane]

on trippy hera it could be reasonable

because you want the duo and dont need rarity as much

[worthy jasper]

Like I don't really need all the duos

Just any one or two of them really

[vagrant crane]

u really need mirage shot

nothing else is going to compare

[worthy jasper]

Well mirage shot would make a difference yes.

[vagrant crane]

on trippy flare on hera mirage is bugged to deal double damage

well the second mirage thing will deal the same damage as normal cast

so it will deal double damage total

[worthy jasper]

Do hangover ticks get spread around with shared suffering?

[vagrant crane]

wdym

[worthy jasper]

I forgot how shared suffering works exactly.

Sorry I just pivoted to a different subject out of nowhere.

[vagrant crane]

whenever you hit an attack on rama all enemies with shared suffering will take 60% of that attack damage

[worthy jasper]

Oh it specifically is damage from the attack.

[vagrant crane]

yea

[worthy jasper]

Sounds like you can actually do flat damage on special and percentage damage on attack for the double whammy. Like iirc, Rama special just kinda ricochets around?

[vagrant crane]

yeah

the best in slot special is zeus

for some breakpoints on lighter enemies

[worthy jasper]

So something like zeus special and aphro attack.

[vagrant crane]

yeah

and hunter dash

best first hammer is twin shot

[worthy jasper]

Not tidal or divine?

[vagrant crane]

no

tdash is annoying on rama

and divine doesnt add any damage

u want as much atk damage as possible so you can deal with enemies in as few shots as possible

since each one takes so long

[worthy jasper]

Is there any way to add some crits into the mix?

[vagrant crane]

you can take deadly strike if u have some good chaos

like hestia

[worthy jasper]

But that would require some playing around before getting something on the attack. I guess for Rama that's possible if you go for Zeus starter.

[vagrant crane]

yeah you dont need an attack from the start

most people start zeus for low heat

[worthy jasper]

Have you ever used egg in a distant past?

The chaos keepsake?

[vagrant crane]

egg is mostly meme

if you're really lucky you can take it into aspho

specifically if you have your full build and an ix

[worthy jasper]

Coz it's hard to get good rarity on chaos. But the egg is also hard to justify using.

[vagrant crane]

yea

[worthy jasper]

And I don't think chaos boons can get randomly targeted by rarity up effects like the bountiful harvest thingy or whatever it was called.

[vagrant crane]

hermes also cannot get crop

[worthy jasper]

Oh right, rare crop it was called

What weapon goes well with dadcall?

Does it block call boons from appearing?

[eager flint]

huh, what's the start on high heat with Rama ? I used zeus and it makes tartarus a breeze. Though maybe it's a skill issue on my part to not deal with tart well without it

[vagrant crane]

a lot of them

[vagrant crane]

aph

i think

[eager flint]

that sounds painful

[worthy jasper]

For example?

[eager flint]

You lack the AoE of zeus special, it makes DC a bit less free, and you can both use aphro or arte and eventually athena on attack and be ok, whereas on special there's really only zeus and dio, and even then zeus seems better

[vital night]

Is there an argument for true shot Hera btw

[vagrant crane]

no

[vital night]

The damage boost from exit wounds and change of +2 stones seems nice

But why

[plain river]

exit wounds shouldn’t matter outside of boss fights, crit chance sucks and base damage isn’t enough

+2 casts isn’t consistent enough since you need 2 secondary boons to find it

Just hit chaos w/ crush shot

[vital night]

I c

Fair enough

[glacial sonnet]

can someone recommend a good weapon and aspect for first time doing the timer pact?

does the timer go off only in combat or also exploring and picking boons etc?

[proper furnace]

any menu pauses the timer basically

also just pick your fastest weapon

[hot belfry]

you get 36 minutes for the whole run which is more than enough if youve cleared before

[proper furnace]

(also Than encounter)

[hot belfry]

the 9 minutes gets added to your time left after each region, its not an individual 9 minutes for each

[glacial sonnet]

oh thats very doable

[proper furnace]

your clear times on most weapon can also do td2 lol

[glacial sonnet]

whats td2

[proper furnace]

tight deadline level 2

[glacial sonnet]

oh ok forgot the name

[proper furnace]

(pact abbreviations pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies )

[glacial sonnet]

i mean ive only been fast with the fist

fallen in love with excalibur tho

peak m1 mashing

actually beowulf is pretty fun too tho maybe a bit more rng needed than arthur

aphro attack on arthur is basically set

[vagrant crane]

arthur needs a lot more rng

and will be much worse

than beo

[glacial sonnet]

15 mins left and lost 2 dd alrdy

amen, patroclus with clutch 1ups

[glacial sonnet]

exclusive access at the 4th satyr nest

[vital night]

real

[glacial sonnet]

very suboptimal stygian dio
didnt get artemis for mirage

maybe zag fist next if i dont make it this time

2 1-ups is not nothing ig

[vital night]

What's your goal

[glacial sonnet]

just win under Tight deadling

[vital night]

ah

[glacial sonnet]

was going for stygian dio with mirage shot

[vital night]

zeus on eris is pretty gamer

Also flood flare on beo is more consistent if you're just trying to clear TD

TD3 is free with a decent build since you oneshot stuff post mirage shot

and instaphase

[glacial sonnet]

i died to dades on like 10% health of his 2nd phase 💀

[vital night]

rip

[glacial sonnet]

maybe ill do better with the usual infernal soul loading up multiple casts at a time

and yeah maybe do flood flare again

[vital night]

Yeah

Dash striking into bull rush instead of stand striking is also a good way to save some time

Pause during decisions, take chaos/shop/fountain whenever possible

EM2 for closer lernie heads

However much FO you can handle

[glacial sonnet]

ooh, charged shot vs pulverizing blow

[vagrant crane]

cshot

every time

always

pulv lbow sucks ass

cshot is the best hammer in the game

[vital night]

consider dedge

or clockets

[glacial sonnet]

cshot beowulf is hera with shield isnti t

[vital night]

twin is p broken

pretty much

[glacial sonnet]

do you take chaos in TD runs

[vagrant crane]

yes

[glacial sonnet]

does bullrush/cshot count as Attack?

[vital night]

yes

[glacial sonnet]

or just m1 click

[vagrant crane]

yes

[glacial sonnet]

oh nice

paupers strike

huh railroaded into ares

poseidon and artemis is the minimum right

eey got artemis no keepsake in tartarus needed

so does defiance from chaos restore or add 1 use? is it basically a dud if i have no dd spent?

i mean, fated choice so ill take it anyway

[vagrant crane]

add 1

[plain river]

The flursed in question

[vital night]

AP’d out of smair before furies

[tight basin]

it do be like that sometimes

[vital night]

Single-handedly making me consider another pact for hestia

[plain river]

What heat is it?

[vital night]

40

[plain river]

Yeah

Ap1 was my biggest issue

As soon as I turned it off my runs got better and I was able to clear

[vital night]

Real

[tight basin]

hestia doesnt need smair lmao

if you have aphro atk and some % special you should be fine

or like no special boon and ddash

ddash, hunter, or tidal

[vital night]

Yeah I know. I just like playing with smair on hestia

[plain river]

Hestia just needs like tidal dash and poms and hyper sprint -> rd

[vital night]

Got epic arty attack so I kinda rolled with it

[plain river]

what else could you want

[vital night]

Cc

[plain river]

epic arty strike try to be any different from common arty strike: impossibpe

[vital night]

Real

[worthy jasper]

When do you ever need soldering air?

[vagrant crane]

it’s very nice to have especially on lower damage aspects

[plain river]

Zeus or dio call with smair provide a good dps floor regardless of aspect

And on good builds/aspects it’s just a cherry on top of extra dps if it fits in

[eager flint]

It's a cope if you can't get an aspect of rod

[worthy jasper]

Sounds like it's handy to have but it doesn't feel like it's a must have.

[plain river]

Not really ever a must have tbh

Was never described as one as far back as I read

It’s just something really nice to have

and annoying to get ap1ed

[worthy jasper]

I think it was described as "not being needed" and I was wondering if there was really any argument for the opposite.

[plain river]

Just a matter of phrasing from Nanas

Or confirmation that it really shouldn’t be that big of a loss

[vagrant crane]

i mean it can be very important

[plain river]

True, but it’s hestia not arthur/chaos

[vagrant crane]

yeah but in the general case

like when i did zagsword 40 smair was basically all my damage

[worthy jasper]

I mean it's funny because smair saved my build the one time I tried Hestia properly.

[vital night]

For stuff like witches or archers it’s just nice to have something that isn’t 1 hit every 1.5 seconds

[south sonnet]

you can just dash around

kill a whole group in one go

also, base attacks are generally enough for witches, splitters, and spreaders

[vital night]

I guess

[worthy jasper]

I mean I just ended up killing Hades by dashing around spamming call.

Barely even made any shots.

[tight basin]

smair is either like a bandaid for bad builds or free bonus damage

or you use it for more iframes

[vital night]

#h1-victory-boasting message

The game apologized by giving me a lucky ass run

[tight basin]

lmao free

good build

is that patty sd?

[vital night]

nah

well

[tight basin]

nice

right before styx

[vital night]

yep

[tight basin]

either that or c34 patty and short tunnel styx lmao

[vital night]

real

[tight basin]

hades brain rot fr

[vital night]

so real

this is like the build that i dream about having

maybe hyper delivery could've just taken it even more over the top

deadly reversal

[tight basin]

deadly reversal is impossible unless you take athena atk

and then your heart rend is useless lmao

you could do like athena special and arty cast i suppose tho

a bit sus but doable

and not unreasonable either

[vital night]

ah i c

oh well then

pretty much an ideal run that just got funnier as it went on

[glacial sonnet]

what do i want on guan-yu
breaching skewer
quick spin
serrated point

[eager flint]

Charged skewer

[glacial sonnet]

whast the next best thing to cskewer

oh wait what i somehow beat charon in tartarus

2 extra lifes

[glacial sonnet]

guan yu not bad so far though idk how its gonna do in satyr tunnels
ares + athena still havent rolled ME by elysium

yep no ME in styx too

[wicked dew]

Hey Everyone. I am not sure if this exists but I am looking for a brief cheat sheet of best Boons and hammers combos for each weapon aspect in the game. Something to glance over quickly during my runs.

I finished the game a while back and I started a new save file recently.

I found this which is a good start. Can anyone recommend something similar ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/kqdur7/hades_general_core_build_guide_all_weapons_v137/

[tight basin]

Just looking at the first page and I can already tell it's not good lol

[tight basin]

Use the pinned build guide here

[proper furnace]

Yeah some are kinda

At least it got beo right

[wicked dew]

Can you share a link please am not sure which one. The one by Nyaanyaa Mewmew ?

[untold iris]

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/hades-build-guide

Lee Reamsnyder's guide

some of the builds are better than others but everything in there is at least "good"

[wicked dew]

wow talk about in depth. this looks great

I will read it and try these builds a few times

[untold iris]

there's a table of contents at the start if you want to use it to navigate to the right weapon

[analog mauve]

it was my bible when i started playing

[vital night]

Beo literally has a bug telling you the optimal build lmao

The sheer amount of passion dash lmao

I’ve never done cursed flurry. Maybe as a meme I should try

[glacial sonnet]

do companion attacks not breach through armor?

[eager flint]

what do you mean by "armor" ?

[untold iris]

excess damage doesnt go through yellow hp bars

[eager flint]

Nothing in the game goes through the yellow bar

[untold iris]

so if an enemy has 100 red hp and 100 yellow hp and you hit them for 4000 damage, it will break the yellow hp bar and that's it

[glacial sonnet]

oh
are enemy yellow and red hp values the same? or do they have different amounts of yellow and red

like if an enemy has 100 red hp do they also always have 100 yellow hp or can it be 100 red 50 yellow or smth

[tight basin]

i'm fairly certain it's different

there might be some cases where it's the same but they should be different

because it sure doesn't feel like killing the same enemy twice when they have armor lmao

[glacial sonnet]

is the armor usually more than the red hp?

[hot belfry]

it feels different for sure

[glacial sonnet]

most victory screens of people i see use battie

[tight basin]

definitely

going through armor takes forever compared to their actual hp lmao

[tight basin]

yeah battie is considered the best companion

[glacial sonnet]

whenshould you usually sic companions

[tight basin]

never

there's like

1 niche use case for antos which is deleting the sneak miniboss

and i guess if you want recovery/resources during the run then shady is decent

but fidi is bad, rib is only good for erebus basically, and mort is too slow to be consistent

[glacial sonnet]

but wb all the battie calls

[tight basin]

wdym

when should you use them?

[glacial sonnet]

yeah i mean if battie is the best companion whats the strongest use case for that?

[tight basin]

it's strong because it's fast

you use it on tartarus, asphodel, and elysium minibosses

then heroes and dad

for the first 3, it's to delete armor fast

for heroes and dad, it's just raw damage

[glacial sonnet]

omg yeah gotta remember to use companion when im getting bullet helled on witch circle

[tight basin]

battie is much better than mort for minibosses since you can consistently hit every enemy to strip armor

for heroes and dad, you can learn the timing to hit both with mort consistently but it's still hit or miss

[glacial sonnet]

1k damage difference i mean

[tight basin]

esp since sometimes they have long bubbles for some reason

so sometimes you just straight up wiff because you tried to time it

[glacial sonnet]

also does charm work on bosses? good thing aphro call has like giant damage at least

[tight basin]

charm has reduced time for bosses

it's like a brief stun

i believe it's like 1/3 the normal duration?

but full call for chunking hp is good

[tight basin]

btw there's a line up to hit ever witch with battie

which is another driving reason to use battie over anything else lmao

[glacial sonnet]

oh is battie line direction random or smth?

[tight basin]

it's like perpendicular to your shoulder or something

you can def aim it

[untold iris]

most enemies have more armor than hp

also battie's line is perpendicular to the direction you're facing, yeah

[glacial sonnet]

nice

[tight basin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1105732834708176926/image.png?ex=65cc53f3&is=65b9def3&hm=1018676f35927f6f56fa8cb85b780b872548a3852eda0467aab7f198edd33a79&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1198&height=670

aim at that top witch and wait for the last witch to pop up on the screen

[analog mauve]

i just wait for the nearest witches projectile to almost hit me as the meg timing

[untold iris]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M8uSUx4vW6TZHHb8z7SbGL4uWxcME7aB3LAIikfpmoM/edit#gid=0
this is the enemy hp numbers btw

[tight basin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-Iovk-sbe8

[untold iris]

most enemies in that sheet have more armor than hp

though some enemies have equal armor and hp

[tight basin]

meg lineup is out of date, so here's the new one (timestamped)

[proper furnace]

Dad summons are pretty much all armor no hp

[tight basin]

oh god dammit dyno

[proper furnace]

Specially on em4

[untold iris]

yeah, on the sheet that I posted they're listed as "super elite"

[tight basin]

https://youtu.be/s49jVwc6rS8?t=542

[untold iris]

for example, normal exalted sword = 700 hp
elite sword = 700 hp 400 armor
dad sword = 700 hp 1400 armor

[analog mauve]

shave off a minute

[tight basin]

im too bad for that

i have not hit a sub7 since that run i believe lmao

[analog mauve]

😔 👊

[tight basin]

mostly because i haven't tried tho

i dont really have any passion for beo speed anymore lol

unless i wanna do unmodded but then that's unmodded

if anything i'd rather do beo heat since i dont have a 50 heat recording for that

[analog mauve]

i want to submit a run to speedrun.com

[tight basin]

what's stopping you

[analog mauve]

preferably sub7

the sub7 paert

[tight basin]

i thought you had one

[analog mauve]

i dont record

[tight basin]

ah

that'll do it

[analog mauve]

yep

[vagrant crane]

have u tried recording

[analog mauve]

yea

[tight basin]

i should probably submit my sub8 runs for other weps tbh lmao

[analog mauve]

i got a sub9

[vagrant crane]

play an aspect that isnt bad

[analog mauve]

i cant even sub8 anymore

[tight basin]

based

[analog mauve]

eris isnt that bad

[vagrant crane]

eris sucks

[analog mauve]

no u

[tight basin]

true

[vagrant crane]

grue

[glacial sonnet]

i move there from spawn asap and then call?

[vagrant crane]

eris is like peashooter

[tight basin]

well you wait a bit and aim correctly

[analog mauve]

i like peas

[tight basin]

but pretty much yeah

[glacial sonnet]

ima try it

if i dont get power couple instead

[tight basin]

@glacial sonnet

here's a visual demonstration of doing it

[analog mauve]

i also need to do a freshfile clear

and hera sub8

[tight basin]

do both at the same time

[analog mauve]

huh

[tight basin]

longest fresh file in the world

never finish the run until you get hera

and then clear with hera

and make it sub8 igt

[analog mauve]

ill setup a camera on tripod connected to external storage to record

[tight basin]

lmfao

[vagrant crane]

just record at 480p 30fps

[analog mauve]

for a week

?

[tight basin]

yes

saves storage

im sure the speedrun verifiers would love that :)

[analog mauve]

yep

whats the lowest res u think theyd accept

[vagrant crane]

this got verified https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3HO5AWAjPM

[analog mauve]

whats wrong with that

[tight basin]

i mean it's just stretched but clear

clearish

all the pixels are still there

[analog mauve]

as clear as that aspect ratio can get

[tight basin]

480p 30 fps is like

dollar store pixel

[vagrant crane]

they'll verify it

[tight basin]

i mean yeah but they wouldn't like it lmao

[analog mauve]

to verify

do they watch every frame

[vagrant crane]

ask a verifier

[analog mauve]

because i can imagine getting a headache watching that

[glacial sonnet]

so does one just avoid EM asterius when he does his extended spin attack?

i burnt through all my extra lifes when he did that

[vagrant crane]

yes

[untold iris]

ok i will admit that despite playing this game for quite a while i still dont fully have a handle on asterius charging

i try to kite him into a wall but it feels like sometimes he just magically curves around the wall and headshots me anyways

also sometimes im not in the right position and dont have time to try and kite him to the wall

wondering if there is a consistent setup for dodging the charge that I'm missing

[analog mauve]

get hypersprint eternally outrun him

[proper furnace]

Ngl sometimes I just use an acorn charge

Call iframes is also an option

[analog mauve]

my acorn always gets used up by the stupid chariot bullets

he can shoot them at you from offscreen

so dumb

[worthy jasper]

It occurred to me, all of the things that make the game slower don't go well with tight deadline, but conversely if you don't take tight deadline those things don't matter quite as much.

[untold iris]

well yes, once you get to extremely high heats tight deadline is really hard

but also keep in mind that the longer your run takes the more likely you are to make mistakes

so you could in theory turn off tight deadline and instead bump up enemy spawns and hp

it works but will require a different playstyle

you'll need to play a lot safer since there are more opportunities to make mistakes

[south sonnet]

be next to a wall, have him be far away from you

alternatively, you can also try to dash away from a wall to get him to swerve into it

..--
. z
a

in this situation(- is wall, . is filler because discord, z is zag, a is astrius), you want to dash to the side so he curves into the wall

[untold iris]

can you draw something crappy in ms paint for me?
im not understanding the text diagram

[south sonnet]

if asterius is charging at you, and theres a wall behind you

[untold iris]

i dash along the wall?

[potent tree]

Dash through Asterius and away from the wall

[south sonnet]

that also works

my amazing skills(first time using paint)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/915039466874372116/1204558681555865670/Screenshot_2024-02-06_144602.png?ex=65d52bb1&is=65c2b6b1&hm=727dca867c480d7ccf22fbc5785cc68dcb019995f8d3e272b6ebdfdf271ab87d&

[untold iris]

ok so that's dashing left or right, that's what I thought you meant

if it's a pillar I have been dashing through the pillar but sometimes he just curves around the pillar and hits me anyways

[south sonnet]

dont dash through the pillar

[potent tree]

Asterius has reaction speed like a squirrel on 5 gallons of coffee

[south sonnet]

you want to take advantage of the fact that asterius cant turn really well and dash through him or to the side so he charges into the wall while trying to turn to hit you

[worthy jasper]

I'm aware of this, in fact my reason for making the statement is more or less, to be aware of everything.

Basically I am starting to get some idea of how much impact EM4 might make. Like, it could add a minute or even two to the clock, because there's several things happening to the fight that compound each other. But if I really like to EM4 then maybe I shouldn't go all the way to 5 minutes per floor.

[untold iris]

EM4 adds a lot of time, but it also makes the fight a lot harder

not only because its longer so you have more chances to make a mistake

but also the fight itself is harder

so it also impacts stuff like LC

[worthy jasper]

LC?

And yeah that is what I mean when I say "several things happening that compound each other".

[proper furnace]

Lasting consequences, no healing pact

[worthy jasper]

Like increased health, increased damage, expanded move set, beefier minions that are more trouble than the default. And this is before factoring in the third phase.

[proper furnace]

The worst part is pretty much always the first phase

[worthy jasper]

That being said, surely you understand the appeal of wanting to fit EM4 in there somewhere anyway? Even if it means I have to cut back on the time limit?

Btw what is this pulsing thing that the skulls do at EM4?

[proper furnace]

Slow down iirc

Doesn't affect dash so it's whatever

[worthy jasper]

Oh that's why it feels like it didn't do anything.

[proper furnace]

Is the same as that one benefit package perk where enemies pull you

[worthy jasper]

I only did the fight once. The screen going dark actually ended up throwing me for a bit of a loop coz I actually kinda like knowing where everything is. XD

[proper furnace]

You can just dash out of it

[vagrant crane]

em4 is adding something that can be hard at the end of the run while having td3 is something you passively do every run after a certain point

[worthy jasper]

Surely you understand the appeal tho?

[vagrant crane]

its like the appeal of arthur

even though it might sound like a good idea

its not really a good idea

[worthy jasper]

I never said anything about whether or not it's a good idea.

I'm saying it has appeal.

Idk maybe it's hard to understand for a speedrunner.

[proper furnace]

The appeal in em4 is that is somewhat of a fun fight

[worthy jasper]

^

[proper furnace]

But is not like em4 vs td3

Just both

[worthy jasper]

Well yeah but one makes the other more difficult.

Also I don't need both to reach 10 heat.

[proper furnace]

Understandable

I assume you were talking 32+ tbh

[worthy jasper]

That seems to be some kind of weird default around here. I find it unlikely that the average newbie plays at 32 as soon as they unlock the PoP.

[vagrant crane]

god i hate alecto

[proper furnace]

Where is kinda common to like
"I can't do td at all"
Then you look at their pact and it has every time consuming pact under the sun

[vagrant crane]

she just instantly dashed

for all 4 phases

15 second long

[proper furnace]

Lovely

[worthy jasper]

I mean those sound like the kinds of choices I'd make. I don't exactly value "going fast" all that much.

[vagrant crane]

dont really need to go fast

[proper furnace]

I mean, td3 alone is 6 heat

Js/cp both maxed are 5 heat

[worthy jasper]

I can't even do 20 minutes consistently without any slowening pacts.

[vagrant crane]

you'll get better over time

[worthy jasper]

My average seems to be around 25.

Well okay no that would not be my average.

My average is probably more like towards 20, since the odd 16 minute run weights the average in that direction.

[vagrant crane]

dawg

missed shop in tart and aspho

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1204574968323510272/image.png?ex=65d53adc&is=65c2c5dc&hm=9bab585cdb0c9f14c5beba9fd25c19b9fb1bf55708f68585184eb3b869e03238&

just give me my shop

[proper furnace]

You will take the miniboss

[worthy jasper]

Missed shops and only 300 obols?

[vagrant crane]

eury 22

surely mirage

[worthy jasper]

Do elite rooms give the same reward as a miniboss?

[vagrant crane]

elite?

[worthy jasper]

Yeah those rooms where everyone is armored?

[vagrant crane]

the ones that give armored enemies?

[proper furnace]

Skull rooms are always minis if it has a boon (before styx)

[vagrant crane]

those can only be blue laurel

man

0 arty

[proper furnace]

If it's a blue laurel is armored everywhere

[worthy jasper]

Blue is global rewards?

[vagrant crane]

blue is the useless ones

keys darkness gems nectar

[proper furnace]

Darkness/keys/etc

[worthy jasper]

Yeah the global ones. So does a skull room give better reward?

[vagrant crane]

it will give 2 keys instead of 1

10 darkness instead of 5 it hink

20 gemstones

[worthy jasper]

What about nectar?

[vagrant crane]

maybe 2 nectar or something

idk

[proper furnace]

Can nectar even be an elite room

[worthy jasper]

Good question.

[vagrant crane]

no i dont think so

[worthy jasper]

Incidentally, if your favorite blue laurel room choice is there which one is it?

I understand that you don't like seeing them, but they do occur. 😛

[proper furnace]

Keys are ideal

[untold iris]

Nectar can't be elite

[vagrant crane]

nectar in early tart

otherwise key

[worthy jasper]

Like, keys are ok, but nectar is kinda neat too.

Between gemstones and darkness it's probably darkness.

[vagrant crane]

gemstones r completely useless

[proper furnace]

I like the gold more

[vagrant crane]

i mean

darkness

gemstones at least give u cash

[untold iris]

In terms of run progression yes

Though you might want to take Darkness if your file is newer

[worthy jasper]

Well I have everything mechanics related fully unlocked except for aspects.

And I thought the small health increase would be a little better than a handful of obols.

[untold iris]

If you don't have full mirror then darkness will pay off more than gems in the long run

[worthy jasper]

Well there's the fact that I still have only 3 dice.

[untold iris]

20 obols is solid

[worthy jasper]

Or was it 4?

Either way it's not max.

Need like 4000 for the next one.

I'm halfway there.

So I guess in that case it's probably darkness.

That said I'd probably take a nectar over darkness, at least in tart.

[proper furnace]

With dark foresight you probably aren't seeing nectar anywhere beyond tbh

[worthy jasper]

Oh, are blue rooms weighted to appear in tart more?

[vagrant crane]

more than other biomes

but not more than gold laurel

[worthy jasper]

Do you still get the pom part if you get a nectar from dio?

[vagrant crane]

yes

[worthy jasper]

Like I keep wondering that but every time I get a chance to check I forget.

[untold iris]

It's 45%, 40%, 33% for blue rewards in the three biomes

Note that this is across the whole run

[vagrant crane]

which is why u want df

but also

cgull says there is an obscene catchup factor

which makes it "basically deterministic"

[untold iris]

So it's not 33% for elysium

Elysium gives you golds until you are at roughly 33%

And since the previous target was 40%

There's some catchup

Also weird quirk

Bounties are gold

[vagrant crane]

can someone lend me a sub155 backhalf

[untold iris]

But the darkness they are rplaced with are blue

[tight basin]

what are you shooting for now lmao

[untold iris]

So non-bounty runs are actually slightly easier...

[vagrant crane]

another sub5

surely

[tight basin]

oh dear lmao

wr when

what was your time again? 442 or 448?

[vagrant crane]

442

[tight basin]

just 13 seconds

easy

[vagrant crane]

grue

[tight basin]

not a c31 mirage would do it lmao

how many pos/arty menus did you have before you got mirage

[worthy jasper]

So basically if you meet the 33% quota before reaching elysium then future blue rooms are just banned?

[vagrant crane]

2 or 3

[tight basin]

game moment

[worthy jasper]

And does the mirror perk reduce that number or?

[tight basin]

ngl i have no clue about the inner workings of df

i just know that you get about 1 blue laurel each in aspho and ely

and tart has like idk 3 or something

[untold iris]

It's reduced by 20%

So the target for elysium is 13% blue

Across the whole run

[worthy jasper]

Wait all those numbers are just cut down to 25/20/13?

[untold iris]

Yes

That's why dark foresight is strong

[tight basin]

df good

[worthy jasper]

That sounds like it's almost guaranteed that you just don't see any in elysium

[untold iris]

Yes

[tight basin]

yeah that's why i said about 1 lol

[untold iris]

It also depends on bounties or not

Since bounty bosses are gold rooms and darkness bosses are blue rooms

It's stupid but it matters...

[tight basin]

wait that's so based

unfortunate for bounty runs but after that it's just free

[worthy jasper]

Wait so that means if you have all bounties then the amount of blue rooms becomes even less?

[untold iris]

I think that's a big part of the reason why people think dark foresight leads to almost no blue rooms later on

The forced blue room from bosses adds to the count

[tight basin]

yeah that's probably a pretty big factor

[vagrant crane]

it still matters a lot in tart

on of your hammer is late or missing much more often

[worthy jasper]

Does darkness from bosses give health?

[tight basin]

tart just sucks tho

[tight basin]

yes

that's considered a room reward

[worthy jasper]

I assume it's still like 5?

[untold iris]

And like in elysium the blue ratio is like 4ish blue rewards average across the whole run

[tight basin]

yeah still 5

[worthy jasper]

Regardless of the amount of darkness?

[untold iris]

30 x .13 = 4 blue

And two blue boss rooms are forced

So if you see two blue rooms in tart/asphodel you are very unlikely to see any in elysium

[worthy jasper]

So basically, it counts the amount of rooms you've completed, and if the total blue rooms is under the threshold, then you may find a blue room in the near future?

[untold iris]

No, it's still random but just skewed to try and keep you at the target ratio

If you've seen more than 45% blue rooms in tart you have higher odds of seeing gold, scaling based on the difference

[worthy jasper]

I assume it goes both ways, so it attempts to keep an equilibrium?

[untold iris]

And vice versa

That's also why the first door in tart is almost always blue

[worthy jasper]

Because the first room is always gold.

[untold iris]

Since at that point your ratio is 100% gold

[worthy jasper]

So the next room is almost always blue.

I see... So the reason you see less blues on higher floors is because the threshold gets lowered, lowering the spawn rate of blues even more.

So if you're still at the 20%'ish from asphodel, chances of even seeing a blue anymore becomes near zero?

Maybe somewhere near the end?

[untold iris]

Yeah you most likely only see 0-1 blues in elysium with df on

[worthy jasper]

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[tight basin]

cat moment

[worthy jasper]

Yup

Now she's eating my nose.

You know a thing I wish roguelikes did more?

Have shareable seeds with leaderboards.

Not that I think it works for this game. The RNG in this game isn't quite as deterministic as it is in some other games.

[tight basin]

yeah the rng numbers change after each room

the closest thing there is to that is run control, which has only been done for select runs

or you'd have to do it yourself

[worthy jasper]

I guess it's also muddled a bit with all the tools the player has to manipulate the RNG.

Between the mirror, trinkets and rerolls.

So two players attempting the same seed won't necessarily see the same things.

Even if it was deterministic.

[plain river]

Everytime you cast, summon or break a pot/kill a shade the rng gets shoved over

[tight basin]

i think that's technically part of run control

like you can follow the same path if you want but you could theoretically branch off

although idk what would happen exactly

[worthy jasper]

Yeah for leaderboards to work that's a big nono.

[tight basin]

it's been a while since anyone's done run control

[plain river]

To do a “shared seed” they’d have to like

hard code in the run

[tight basin]

run control mod