h1-builds-and-combat

[eager flint]

(which notably includes their spawn animation)

[hushed saffron]

Ok so it’s movement and attack speed 20% per level right

Lv 2 I’m already at 6 heat

Why play extreme measures? For the hydra map?

[lucid oar]

Extreme measures 2 is an extra 1+2 heat

The heads spawn closer together

So you can group them up

[sacred pulsar]

what happens if you take twin shot as first hammer and flurry shot as the second

[tight basin]

twin flurry

[sacred pulsar]

do they stack ? you "auto" shoot twin shots ?

[tight basin]

yeah

[lucid oar]

Yup

It’s pretty good

[sacred pulsar]

nice

[tight basin]

if you can get it then it will stack lol

[sacred pulsar]

yeah i had twin shot first hammer now i got the choice between flurry shot, chain shot and explosive shot

i dont know which to take

[lucid oar]

Yeah flurry is best

[tight basin]

which aspect is this

[lucid oar]

But explosive is pretty fun

[sacred pulsar]

hera

[tight basin]

flurry is better

if you're good at aiming at least

[hushed saffron]

Just made a run without ME

Start was good but the damage is no where near ME

Useless to try going to the end without it

[hushed saffron]

Booooooooom 11.47!!!!!

So happy omg

[tight basin]

gaming

[hushed saffron]

I got almost perfect build, I had my core build before Tartarus boss lol. Only thing that could have been optimized is impending doom that I only got at the shop before Elysium boss

But I’m not gonna complain lol

[tight basin]

it's always the impending lmao

[hushed saffron]

Split times: 3.25/5.56/9.03/10.41/11.47

Got lucky on asphodel rooms also

[tight basin]

that's pretty good

sub10 soon lmao

[hushed saffron]

I don’t think so. I think I need to really learn speedrun now to get better

Cause I learned some stuff but I’m not optimizing properly

Not enough knowledge

[tight basin]

have you read the fists guide

[hushed saffron]

And also before doing this I think I’m gonna resume my runs to 20 heat one by one (12 now)

[hushed saffron]

Yes read the guide and watched the video

That’s how I stepped up so much

[tight basin]

imo you have all the knowledge you need for sub10

[hushed saffron]

But I didn’t read much specific stuff about speedrunning

[tight basin]

oh lmao

that might be important

[hushed saffron]

Ye

[tight basin]

but you def have the info for sub10, you just need more practice

and bang your head on the wall a bit more

[hushed saffron]

I know the room choice order and that’s about it haha

Really happy

Two days ago I had a 16.58 pb lol

Sub10 means 1.47 improve I don’t know where I can get that on my run with my current jnowdledge. Cause my build was really lucky

And room choice quite lucky too I feel

[tight basin]

well combats can be cleaner probably

there's probably a lot you can optimize for that

enemy prioritization, baiting enemy attacks for better grouping sometimes

using high confidence instead of thick skin

and chthonic vitality over dark regen

your last run had +dashes from hermes i think, idk what rarity

[hushed saffron]

Totally. But I think I should listen tips and tricks about this

[tight basin]

also depends if you're resetting for at least rare doom, since common doom is really bad

[hushed saffron]

Why is dark regen that bad? Cause after bosses you get a lot of hp

[tight basin]

you have a fountain afterwards

also if you're speedrunning i doubt you have that much trouble with bosses right

[hushed saffron]

And I’m not sure +3 per room makes a difference?

[tight basin]

it does surprisingly

[hushed saffron]

Ye

[tight basin]

especially for chaos gates

[hushed saffron]

At least at 6 heat I have 0 problem lol

[tight basin]

it also helps you keep up high confidence for more damage

[hushed saffron]

Oh wtf I just think about something. I didn’t see any chaos portal during my run 🧐

[tight basin]

happens lmao

[hushed saffron]

Not sure if it would have saved me some time though

[tight basin]

but like there's plenty of places to improve in runs lmao

[tight basin]

i mean it def would

[hushed saffron]

Totally. What I meant is that I think I can’t do it if I don’t get info like tips and tricks

[tight basin]

chaos gates take like 3-5 seconds to go through, shortest combat in tartarus of like armored brimstones/pots/4 skullomats takes about the same about of time if they all spawn in the first wave

[hushed saffron]

But totally my run is faaar from perfect. It’s just super good for me with my current knowledge I think hh

[tight basin]

normal combat in tartarus (for me at least) is about 10 seconds

[tight basin]

a dash upper one shots tartarus witches

you might need high confidence for that? idk, check the fists guide

iirc that has a breakpoint section

but that interaction is why you take fiery presence

[hushed saffron]

I have fiery presence

[tight basin]

also you can dash strike and dash upper in the same dash with a bit of practice

[hushed saffron]

Good to know this

[tight basin]

so if you get ME before you get the dash, you can spam that around

[hushed saffron]

I got me the room after dash I think lol

[tight basin]

might kill some stuff at certain breakpoints too

[hushed saffron]

I got so lucky in the build

[tight basin]

happens lol

[hushed saffron]

If I had impending earlier I might have earned 20s I guess?

[tight basin]

at least

[hushed saffron]

That’s the only thing

Cause I also had Zeus call and some Zeus boons to deal damage

[tight basin]

also what hammers did you have lol

idk the hammer icons for fists that well and idk your language lol

[hushed saffron]

Oops

First hammer was not good I forgot which one

Second hammer I got the 900% to armor

Maybe 2nd room of Elysium

[tight basin]

getting that earlier would've been time save

[hushed saffron]

Ye

First hammer choice they were all bad

[tight basin]

did you have battie?

[hushed saffron]

Yes

[tight basin]

yeah there's plenty of time save here lmao

just keep doing runs and it'll happen soon enough

plenty of rng improvements

technical stuff too, which you'll learn by just playing more

watch other runs too and see how they play

[hushed saffron]

I’ve watched the WR on fists that’s insane haha

I’ll make a break on speedrunning now to complete my other goals (farm titan blood, unlock relationships, buy everything etc..)

But I’ll get back to speedrunning very very soon haha it’s so fun

[eager flint]

ahem

Blood and darkness what is GY standing strike hitbox ???

I managed to miss a numbskull (who didn't see me for some reason) 2 times with the second and third strike

it's already annoying as hell to have to wait 3-4 working days for the attack to get out

the minimum it could do is to hit ??

Especially when the hitbox of the special is basically the Evergreen cargo ship

[valid dagger]

look for flurry jab imo

[eager flint]

I'm pretty sure I'd look for a long time

[limber fjord]

flurry jab gy is a hammer of all time

[valid dagger]

i tried it

with codex mod

it sure is something

[eager flint]

How does it work ?

Also silly me, I knew I should have modded the game for impossible hammer combos to compensate vanilla attacks :p

[valid dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523766637757726722/887837417606873118/2021-09-14_18-34-59.mp4?ex=65bad307&is=65a85e07&hm=b574982e0c1b9ad1d2634891ad42a7ef6c9d0f19c67ec4d85977d95ba628386f& It's something like this

It's by pony i cant find my vid its probably gone

he doesnt dashstrike tho rip

[eager flint]

I mean, it doesn't look half bad tbh

[analog mauve]

looks like normal spear attack

but with heroic swift strike tho

[eager flint]

Isn't that just what does flurry jab in general though

[analog mauve]

yeah i meant both together

[hushed saffron]

Also I’m thinking I’ve done my pb with 3 rooms at the Styx

[tight basin]

free time save

[sacred pulsar]

getting a 2 sack when im on a good pace makes me so excited

i also keep wondering if its worth to go in styx shop

i feel like im losing around 15s

[tight basin]

you only go to styx shop if you're gonna buy hermes imo

or if you're missing impending doom

i think you're doing ME anyways

it's more worth it if you have +dashes or hyper sprint tho

lose less time

[vagrant crane]

for styx shopping???

styx shop is a ~5s timeloss

[sacred pulsar]

yeah, maybe 15s was too much but its a loss anyways

[tight basin]

it's a good chunk more if you dont have hyper sprint or dashes

[vagrant crane]

if u think whatever it could net you would save more than that in dad then it’s possible

[sacred pulsar]

its just these +2 lvls poms are cute

[vagrant crane]

oh don’t do those

[tight basin]

oh that's not worth it

[vagrant crane]

those r deep

[sacred pulsar]

damn, i had it wrong then

[tight basin]

you'd only do it if you've only had like 3 poms total the whole run somehow lmao

[vagrant crane]

yea

[sacred pulsar]

i should just focus on hermes then

hes often there

[tight basin]

50/50 he's there

[vagrant crane]

the only thing i buy in styx shop is hermes if i have rd and it’ll save me time or be funny

[tight basin]

hermes is generally the only thing you'd buy in styx shop

impending doom is the other case since that's kinda rd lmao

but you gotta hope it's not deep in the shop

[sacred pulsar]

good to know thanks guys

[wooden jungle]

Well I'm being offered three Artemis duo boons at once

I know which one makes the most sense but this is ridiculous

[hushed saffron]

Do you get back the time you lose at shopping?

I mean if you buy Hermes, is it time worthy

[tight basin]

i mean ideally yes lmao

like if you dont have rd yet, then it's an easy time save

more dashes is also easy time save

[hushed saffron]

But I got so much luck on my build, I might not have this in the next 50 runs xd

[tight basin]

nah it can get luckier

[hushed saffron]

RD = ?

[tight basin]

rush delivery

[hushed saffron]

Ah

[tight basin]

didn't you say you got a late impending doom

[hushed saffron]

Yes, the Elysium end shop

[tight basin]

youre also not considering that you might be lucky enough to get a secondary duo boon before the end of the run lmao

[hushed saffron]

But everything else came so fast

[tight basin]

also not considering enemy rng

[hushed saffron]

I dont have my switch to check but I think I got one. But not really interesting if I recall correctly

Zeus + something

[tight basin]

the only noteworthy one is deadly reversal

[hushed saffron]

Oh no I had no or not much Artemis in my build

[tight basin]

smoldering air is a bit sus but doable if you get aphrodite cast and zeus call but you'd open up curse of longing and parting shot and potentially curse of vengeance

[hushed saffron]

That was a Ares/Athena/Zeus build

[tight basin]

oh curse of vengeance then

i remember that now

[hushed saffron]

Well that was a basic ME build, Zeus came by chance, I didnt specifically look for it

[tight basin]

but yeah not bad but like not as good as deadly reversal or even curse of drowning

[tight basin]

im just saying the rng could get better lol

[hushed saffron]

Oh you mean "curse of vengeance" is the duo boon name

I thought it was the name of Ares/Athena/Zeus build haha

[tight basin]

oh no lol

i'm pretty sure that's the duo's name but i could be wrong

ah it's called vengeful mood

oops

[hushed saffron]

Curse of vengeance is an Ares boon, just checked

I had it btw

[tight basin]

yeah i just realized that lmao

curse of vengeance probably opened up the duo

[hushed saffron]

I'll check tonight, I think it's this one yes

[hushed saffron]

Ananke, the Demeter fists WR record, says that Gods legacy and Gods pride are two placebo talents. Do you agree?

I feel it's useful

[vagrant crane]

where

99% it’s a joke

fists need pride so bad

rarity resetting with no pride

[hushed saffron]

On his fists guide

Let me check

[vagrant crane]

it’s a joke

[hushed saffron]

Oh I cant send screenshot

Let me C/C

God’s Pride and God’s Legacy are placebo Mirror Talents, but if we choose to believe they do anything, the former is always correct for Fists. You may be thinking that Legacy ought to be better if Merciful End, a Duo boon, is pivotal to the fundamental combo of the build. However, it’s the only Duo you truly need, and if your Doom attack and Hermes boons are Common instead of Epic, you won’t be dealing much damage anyway! The humorous maxim is “Just get ME”, but it’s also unfortunately true. Unlike some other weapons with essential Duos (e.g. Beowulf and Mirage Shot), you don’t have the luxury of taking Legacy because you do care about your boons’ rarities. It’s nice when Pride also makes your supporting boons Epic, but as we reviewed, your very first and most important one needs it the most.

[vagrant crane]

yeah it’s a joke

[hushed saffron]

Where do you see it 😂

[vagrant crane]

?

[analog mauve]

mirror

[hushed saffron]

No I mean, how do you see it's a joke, the tone looks really serious to me

[analog mauve]

gods legacy is a joke

[vagrant crane]

i mean first off literally just read it

and secondly if you’ve played for more than 10 seconds the influence of pride on fists runs is pretty obvious

it would take so much longer to rarity reset

as well as hermes being worse

[hushed saffron]

I totally agree with you. Still didnt his joke though xd

[vagrant crane]

u don’t rlly write a chunky paragraph about a placebo choice

[vagrant crane]

did u change pfp

[analog mauve]

its been a few days

why

[vagrant crane]

didn’t notice till now

[hushed saffron]

Another unrelated question: are there some no hit runners in Hades? Is it easy/too easy?

[vagrant crane]

there are

[analog mauve]

from what ive seen styx is the only real hard part

[vagrant crane]

i heard it’s ely

idk

it seems very easy to get a run in a kinda low number of hits

but 0 sounds hard and also rng

[analog mauve]

the laser stones

[hushed saffron]

Easy to jump on them. I'd thought poison would be harder to avoid sometimes

[analog mauve]

Just don't stand on the poison

[eager flint]

Damn I suck at zagbow

well

at least in normal room

I have a hard time hitting small enemies with even one arrow, let alone three

Now onto sub10 chiron. Should I go low tolerance or sea storm ?

[limber fjord]

for chiron???

go heartrend

you kinda need to hit conc volley but that's just how it is on chiron

now that you mention zagbow though i need to play it again

[hushed saffron]

I have an idea all of a sudden

Could it be a good idea, once you get your ME, to sell your Athenas special for something else?

[analog mauve]

same i start flurry

then you can afford to waste arrows

[analog mauve]

if you want, but if you have me you are not going to be specialing anyway

[hushed saffron]

I use my special when it’s charged and have a good frame

[proper furnace]

Athena (mainly if its epic) is good dmg for your special

[analog mauve]

Ares special with dire misfortune

[eager flint]

don't you go dash strike - dashstrike - special as filler until you get your dashes back ?

[stuck sparrow]

I feel like Hermes usually offers me lower-rarity boons compared to other gods... outside of mirror upgrades, is there a way to ensure that he offers more epics?

[proper furnace]

Use yarn of ariadne (charon well)/refresh nectar (eurydice)

Chaos favor also helps (I think is a 20% boost for epic? Doesn't matter how much is the rare boost)

The biggest gamble is getting exclusive access before hermes

[stuck sparrow]

okay, ty

[stuck sparrow]

in this case I'd avoid other boons until I see a Hermes one?

[proper furnace]

Basically yeah

For nectar you can get 2 boons and still have 1 for hermes

[proper furnace]

Forgot to say
Those gurantee a minimum of rare while boosting for epic too

Erebus gates do the same but seeing hermes there is not usual

[stuck sparrow]

noted

thank you for the tips

[limber fjord]

for the record, it doesn't feel like. hermes has lowered odds for higher rarity boons

[stuck sparrow]

ah, how rude of him

[sacred pulsar]

i was thinking that i dont know how rd works

i know its dmg boost from movement speed

but is it running speed

or speed when you hit

cause a dash strike you are going fast

[proper furnace]

Movement speed

Tho for hyper sprint is basically whe you hit lol

Cuz you need to dash to activate it

[sacred pulsar]

okay so it does stack with the sturdy + 100% movement boost but not the dashes

i guess rd by itself is pretty useless until you get more hermes

[proper furnace]

You can't get rd alone

You need greater haste/hyper sprint or plume

All of which give movement speed

[sacred pulsar]

okay, ill need to focus more on hermes next runs

[proper furnace]

Once you get rd remember to buy the ichors if they show up in charon wells

20% speed for 10 gold

[eager flint]

RD is absolutely broken beyond belief

[final coyote]

Been trying to get bad news for awhile now.. no luck.. with plume

[tight basin]

Do you have stygian soul on

[final coyote]

Yup. Both stygian soul and plume

[tight basin]

unfortunate then lmao

gods' legacy in the mirror would help

yarn and refreshing nectar

but that's about it

[chrome bronze]

Does the game have some sort of adaptive diffculty like RE4? I started a new save, so I'm definitely playing much better than a new player, and on my 5th or 6th run, all enemies in tartarus are armored

[limber fjord]

no

[potent tree]

Unless God Mode sorta kinda

[eager flint]

Damn, I suck at Hera. Got a 11:17, but my tart and Ely splits are atrocious. 3 minutes each

The other splits are ok

[rocky vortex]

what are the best calls to pair with smoldering air? i imagine zeus and dionysis are good?

[tight basin]

Yeah those two are the only good ones for dps

[plain river]

Those are indeed the best for dps 👍

[south sonnet]

can confirm, my previous hera run got carried by it(i never got crush shot)

[plain river]

#h1-victory-boasting message

[polar python]

If you can't use Dio or Zeus on Smair, Demeter with Killing Freeze isn't terrible.

[south sonnet]

even mistral dash is better than the call

[crystal rover]

Athena boon shield build?

[proper furnace]

Charged shot athena attack ig

[south sonnet]

and then deadly reversal for actual damage

[proper furnace]

Deflect isn't much built around really (I count ME as more doom)

[proper furnace]

Eh

Ideally epic atk but should still work

"Just" visiting chaos works too

[proper furnace]

I did this for a 3rd run win

[crystal rover]

What do I do with the Aphrodite fists

[eager flint]

The what ?

Did you mix up Aphrodite and Demeter ?

[crystal rover]

I mean with her boom

[south sonnet]

you dont

you use zeus instead

or get her on special and try to get smoldering air

[crystal rover]

Oh

[plain river]

❌❌❌

[sacred pulsar]

what am i looking for on beo shield ?

zeus ?

actually no i guess either aphro or pos cast

[south sonnet]

pos with mirage shot

its glitched so the mirage does full damage

you can also go dio(with stygian), as theres a glitch where poms give double the intended damage(dont get ice wine as it breaks mirage shot)

[sacred pulsar]

i see, and how about hammers ? the charged shot right ?

[south sonnet]

you also want cshot

[sacred pulsar]

if i can get good rng

yeah okay

is unyielding defense solid too ?

3s sturdy

[south sonnet]

the other hammers are:
unyielding defense
ferocious guard
thats about it, breaching rush might do something as a cope

[sacred pulsar]

great ty

[south sonnet]

np

[tight basin]

Sudden rush is good if you don't get cshot

And probably the second best option

[sacred pulsar]

okay

[tight basin]

Ferocious guard is also good for a backup hammer instead

Maybe 2nd best, probably just personal preference

[sacred pulsar]

i got a great tart apart from time, i got mirage shot on 3rd boon and unyielding defense + d dash

[tight basin]

Tart mirage gaming

[sacred pulsar]

im just not used to beo so im slow

3.45

should i go into more pos ? arte ?

[tight basin]

Dash striking into the dragon rush will speed you up

[tight basin]

Artemis for marked or hourglass if the aspho well is good
Or purse if you're broke

[sacred pulsar]

alright

how many chambers in aspho already ?

cause i just got chaos into eurydice into fountain

into mini

[tight basin]

Full skip aspho gaming

Aspho is 6 chambers before final shop/free room

[proper furnace]

What's an aspho

[tight basin]

So you skipped 2/3 of the biome lmao

[lime stream]

asphodel

[analog mauve]

i have a suspicion that they know

[eager flint]

bruh

Hades did a "Darkness !" right on 1 hp

Dad not being the most insufferable anti-fun blaster for speedrun challenge : impossible (even angelic can't help with that)

[plain river]

Hmm

Flurry Serrated is never a good idea

However

Yeah no I don’t think I can justify it here

[sacred pulsar]

i think i was using ME wrong before, hence thinking it was somewhat underwhelming compared to what others were saying

i think i was waiting too long before using special, you gotta use it after like 2-3 punches right ?

[proper furnace]

you need divine dash for full efficiency

special should only be to get the duo in first place, that said

if you got ME but not dash, you can do a dash strike then hit special quickly to get also a dash upper in 1 dash

so it makes no dash manageable

[sacred pulsar]

so you should pick ares or athena special first ?

[proper furnace]

always start ares

you want the free-ish early poms on it

ideally you find athena in tart but for most purposes, just use her keepsake in aspho

[plain river]

Any weapon other than Zeus shield doesn’t use special to prok ME

It’s all off ddash

And any weapon can run ME

[sacred pulsar]

so i should go ares attack, ddash ? @plain river

and athena special

[plain river]

You still need the special to be able to find merciful end at all

But yeah you should take ddash on ME builds

[sacred pulsar]

okay, didnt think that ddash counted as an attack

so game plan is to hit a few attacks and dash to proc the doom effect

then charged shot once its charged ?

[plain river]

It’s anything that deflects

So holy shield also works

[sacred pulsar]

yeah i know now, its just that the text on the boon is your attacks that can deflect immediately activate doom effects, so i thought only attack / special counted

[plain river]

As long as you’re dash uppering you should be set

[proper furnace]

few attacks is more like 1 attack (dash strike)

doom doesn't stack so just proc it asap

[plain river]

You should really just be dash striking into everyone assp

[sacred pulsar]

is that because the doom starts before the dash ?

like it just comboes

idk how to explain it lol

[plain river]

dash striking immediately both proks and drops doom

[sacred pulsar]

yeah thats what i was trying to explain

alright i was still using ME wrong then

[hushed saffron]

@sacred pulsar Ok I'm self-proclaimed ME expert now.

1. Ares attack.
2. Athena's special
3. ME
4. Athena's dash
   Full build
   You will want to look for impending doom next asap.
   Hermes boons. Zeus boons (well it's my preferred choice atm)

Sometimes I get Athena's dash before special depending on the situation but not ideal.

Me procs by just dash+attack. I still use special when there is a good frame but that's not the purpose.

Anyone corrects me if Im wrong :p

And 900% dmg to armor with hammer, not a priority but nice to have

[plain river]

Breaching Cross is a priority just not necessary

[proper furnace]

(and to specify in hermes just in case, go for + dashes or the combo of hyper sprint + rush delivery)

[plain river]

if you end up with real bad luck

Greater haste -> rush delivery

Pray for hyper sprint from 3rd Hermes

[hushed saffron]

I personally love hyper sprint

Makes you go so fast lol

[proper furnace]

If you go for sprint don't forget to buy ichors in charon wells

[hushed saffron]

Also I forgot the name but the thing giving you movement speed. When it's 40% it's so good

[proper furnace]

Mov speed being multiplicative is hilarious

[plain river]

Don’t forget to savescum Bouldy for +10% movespeed

[hushed saffron]

Whats that?

[proper furnace]

My pb the other day had bouldy+9% speed

[proper furnace]

Bouldy

[tight basin]

greater haste

[proper furnace]

At some point you can gift nectar to it for small bonuses

Including some top tiers like 2% ambiguity

[plain river]

Real gamers know +50%

[hushed saffron]

I need to check this

[wooden jungle]

Alright I'm doing a Zeus shield run with a lot of Zeus

Do I pick cold fusion or splitting bolt? The legendary right?

There's also epic heavens vengeance

[analog mauve]

splitting

for most damage

[wooden jungle]

Thought so

Thanks

[analog mauve]

cold fusion is a redundant boon

[wooden jungle]

Howso

[analog mauve]

what is the point of permanent jolt if you are already permanently applying it

[wooden jungle]

Good point

Also I'm just bursting through the Styx with this legendary my goodness

[crude oriole]

i feel like it's hard to get merciless end with ddash unless the game gives me free athena in tartarus (i start with the vial). am i doing something wrong or is that just how it is?

[proper furnace]

It is what it is sadly

ME is reset heavy

[crude oriole]

ok, was getting frustrated because i thought i was making a mistake i can't see. if it just is like that i can deal w it i guess

[hushed saffron]

Welcome on board

Are you speedrunning with ME?

[crude oriole]

no, i'm too slow to attempt speedrunning

[hushed saffron]

Well that’s the point, you start speedrunning to go faster

[crude oriole]

i'm just playing casually, trying to see how high i can get heat wise

[hushed saffron]

What’s your current heat

[crude oriole]

not a lot... on my best weapon i'm at 19 and worst 7. hell mode though

[hushed saffron]

You play me with fists?

[crude oriole]

yeah. trying me because i never liked fists but with me they are fun

[hushed saffron]

So you should be able to grind to heat 20 with not much troubles

And if you’re not speedrunning it’s not a big problem imo to complete your core build a bit late

[proper furnace]

Zap fists is also fun and less of a reset party

[hushed saffron]

Haven’t tried yet but that’s on my list

I’m so obsessed with beating my pb now (and it doesn’t come)

[crude oriole]

you'd think that it should be doable but i'm pathologically incapable of taking my time and playing it save

[eager flint]

Then you're made for speedrunning :p

[crude oriole]

unfortunately i am also just... not very good though

[eager flint]

Also hell mode is pretty harsh. Having JS1 CP1 locked in is really making the game harder

For reference, it's not recommended to turn hell mode until around 50 heat if you play only for heat

[crude oriole]

yeah, i know. maybe i'll start a new normal mode file once i'm done with all the dialog in this one

[eager flint]

Despite needing it for Personal Liability which is not quite free heat but a pretty worthwhile pact in itselft

[eager flint]

Oh boy, you're in it for a while then

[proper furnace]

Remind me fyx, are you on pc?

[crude oriole]

switch

[proper furnace]

Nvm then

[crude oriole]

thing is, when i start a new file, i'm probably going to obsess over the game and play a hundred hours per day again and i'm not supposed to do that because apparently i'm an adult with responsibilities??

[eager flint]

Wild

Have you tried becoming incredibly wealthy ?

[crude oriole]

no didn't think of that, will try that next time

[clever frigate]

hmm unsure if I should take Frost Strike 2 at Heroic over Deadly Strike 2 at Epic, normal Stygius level 5. I've got World Splitter and Piercing Wave, and Deadly Strike's crits have been doing a lotta work for me, so Frost Strike 2 doesn't feel amazing? or is the jump from Epic to Heroic that good?

[vagrant crane]

i wouldnt take it

because crits are funnier

dem atk isnt that good in any case

if it was aph theres more of a reason

[clever frigate]

alr yeah that's what I was thinking, yes crits are funny but also I dunno if I'd be able to keep the chill debuff up

[clever frigate]

wait how good is Aphrodite? because I barely go for her boons at all

[vagrant crane]

aph has the highest % boons

shes strong for that reason

[clever frigate]

oh, noted

[vagrant crane]

as well as crush shot on hera

[eager flint]

and passion dash is kinda tidal dash from wish at home

which is not great but really not the worst either

[plain river]

Not possible

There isn’t a cutoff for speedrunning

[plain river]

+100% atk

[vagrant crane]

yeah

but like

crit

imo

[plain river]

Imo crit wouldn’t be as impactful

[vagrant crane]

its funnier

dem atk is annoying and doesnt scale as good as aph with poms

[plain river]

Actually if they have hunters mark and chaos it’s a different story

[plain river]

annoying how

[vagrant crane]

i hate chill

[plain river]

Killing Freeze is too busy being my beloved for that

[crude oriole]

in that case, maybe i am speedrunning already

[plain river]

So the real play is just try harder

I’m between taking epic special speed on charged skewer zag spear, or 1 extra dash, or reroll for 2/4 rerolls 🤔

Kind of want to look for hs but at the same time

Forgot I didn’t have UC on

Byebye Purple Battle Rage

[sacred pulsar]

i dont get fists

with me

first of all i get ME so late

• i dont seem to do any damage

• my hammers are weak

[plain river]

Fists really doesn’t need hammers to deal damage

You just dash strike dash strike

if you find breaching cross you take it

ME only being found late is just an rng issue

typically the rarity of the doom/hermes/chaos takes precedence over the chance to find ME but

If you really are having issues finding Merciful End consider God’s Legacy

[analog mauve]

Both points are real and valid

The last two atelast

[versed current]

Hey everyone, nice to meet you. I would like to ask you a question if i may. What is the best combination that can go along with Aphrodite? I saw that her weak effect it is not awesome

[proper furnace]

Aphro has the highest % of the boons so you can use her for any high base dmg weapon

I.e hestia/bows/spear special if picking up exploding/charged skewer/etc

If you want builds around weak you can go fro artemis for their duo boon or dio for that duo instead

Aphro duo with zeus can also be used in basically anything you want

And her cast is the best for hera aspect of the bow

[eager flint]

And weak is pretty strong too btw

can easily be worth a centaur heart atvl

[proper furnace]

Weak is comfy yeah

[eager flint]

I guess weak sucks if you're going for no damage run

[polar python]

The best thing about Aphrodite is charming Theseus just as he goes full tantrum.

[versed current]

Aphrodite is good as support, i think. If you want do damage it is not the best option available

[vagrant crane]

she has the highest % boons in the game

[eager flint]

it is literally the best option available

except in some cases where artemis can be better. But that's not always

[potent tree]

Only the best for the prince of the underworld! Plus Aphrodite pairs super well with Artemis

[eager flint]

yeah there's also that

[plain river]

Tbh “the best option available” is super subjective based on your aspect and weapon but typically she is one of the best

By raw stats she wins out in strike and special +%

And she has enough synergy with other gods to be well worth it in a ton of cases

[eager flint]

and passion dash is a A tier boon. Its main issue is being outclassed by the S tier tidal dash in almost every way

[tight basin]

passion dash is def not an a tier dash lmao

[eager flint]

why ?

[vagrant crane]

the pom scaling sucks

and its small

[eager flint]

I mean

yeah

that's what I said : tidal dash at home

[analog mauve]

id rather use drunken dash

[eager flint]

I wouldn't

[tight basin]

that doesn't make it a tier lmao

if anything it's like b or c tier

[eager flint]

[potent tree]

Looks like someone's passionate about pdash

[plain river]

I’m conflicting over serrated or flurry rn

any other time and I would’ve just grabbed flurry but

[tight basin]

flurry good

[analog mauve]

Even with dash strike buffs

[unkempt scroll]

If you get a 30+ minute run, is that being bad or just unlucky?

[vagrant crane]

i mean it could be unlucky or not but basically every run ever done could be below at least 15 minutes

unless its very high heat

or some kind of challenge run

[unkempt scroll]

Idk if I've ever done a 15 minute run, though :I

[vagrant crane]

you'll get there

[unkempt scroll]

One of my quickest might be about 18, maybe 17-ish?

[vagrant crane]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxwSsTPubI

[unkempt scroll]

Doesn't seem entirely beginner-like guide if you need 15 heat, does it?

[vagrant crane]

i mean

you dont

for igt you just want em2 fo2

and you can turn fo down if you want

15 would be em2 fo2 td3

which is for rta

and you could do any level of td it doesnt matter

[unkempt scroll]

What is rta?

[vagrant crane]

real time

vs game time

[unkempt scroll]

Okay

[vagrant crane]

td disables survival rooms

which are bad for rta

but good for igt since they pause the timer

[unkempt scroll]

I never really got the hang og FO. First time I got through the epilogue I think I almost got used to FO2 + EM4? 🤔

[tight basin]

no time like the present to learn lmao

[vagrant crane]

but you dont necessarily need fo2

you can do fo1 if you want

theres an fo1 sub6

[unkempt scroll]

Yep. But, I tend to start ever whenever I get back from a break, which I just did

Okay

Run 1: dies at first boss
Run 2 dies at first boss
Run 3: dies at third boss
Is it just me, or does the hydra just seem kinda easier compared to the others?

[tight basin]

kinda yeah

especially without em

[vagrant crane]

i mean furies are easier

[tight basin]

without em it's a pretty big arena and the boss is pretty stagnant

a lot of safety

[unkempt scroll]

The first boss kinda has to be easy, no?

[tight basin]

yeah

i mean furies and hydra are the easier bosses, which is why they're the first two lmao

[unkempt scroll]

Also, I think I just noticed you can just walk to safety from the AoE dmg that Meg does? You know, where she plants multiple circles on the ground?

[tight basin]

maybe i just dash

[analog mauve]

On fo0 shouldn't be too hard ig

[unkempt scroll]

Me too, but a bit harder without the extra dash

[vital night]

I usually dstrike through her since there's nothing else to do during that attack

[sacred pulsar]

furies is overall easier to me but i do take more damage than against lernie

[vital night]

unironically just don't get hit. I've found it useful to slow down and read the telegraphs to not get hit

but I have lost DD against furies with HL

Also a useful approach with FO i think

[tight basin]

i unga bunga more against furies because it's tartarus and i dont care enough about the run so i lose more hp
against lernie i try more because lernie hurts

and head grouping just needs to be more patient

[unkempt scroll]

I usually just click a bunch of buttons 🤷

[vital night]

sounds about right

If you have enough damage you can instaphase by mashing but if you can't, you kinds have to play the game unfortunately

[eager flint]

I mean, it depends on what you call being "bad"

As jazz (verbait) said, basically every run can be done under 15 minutes

But like

you're not gonna pop out of the womb knowing how to play Hades lol

So it's "bad" in the sense you don't optimize your gameplay, but it's just the learning curve. It doesn't mean you're behind. Hell, you might be ahead.

[sacred pulsar]

yeah but for the same reason as bananas said, i dont care much in tart + i usually get hit for around 50-70hp against furies but i get most if not all back in the fountain

[vital night]

That's also fair and how I play when speedrunning. I've just been doing 32 with LC4 lately

[crude oriole]

check your hades players w/o lasting consequences privilege smh😤 (joking)

so, with thunder flourish on zeus shield, should you just pom the special or jolted as well?

asking this and going to go to sleep in a couple mins, so thanks in advance to whoever answers and thanks to everyone here for always being helpful💜

[proper furnace]

Jolted is the priority

Maybe 1-2 poms on special

[unkempt scroll]

I'm not exactly new to the game. I'm a returning player that likes to start over whenever I get back to the game. But after the game released my record was sort of getting through epilogue, beating 32 heat for the statue, and I mained the fists.
Now I'm not quite sure if I can main the fists anymore, though 😅

But it's not like I'm trying to speedrun the game, it's just I seem to find it kinda hard to just get to the 20-minute mark, from what I can remember? 🤔

But Idk, might be because I played a lot with the shield heat in my earlier playthrough? 🤔

[potent tree]

It's not terribly horribly difficult to get sub-10 consistently if you know how to build proper builds and take the right rooms

[eager flint]

yeah, shield early makes you turtle a lot

[eager flint]

depends on the aspects

though I can talk, I took like 4-5 tries to get sub10 with achilles spear

[unkempt scroll]

Uhm... Sub 10? As in a 10 minute run?

[proper furnace]

Under 10 mins yeah

[unkempt scroll]

So, 2 and half minutes per floor?

Or area, or whatever

[eager flint]

not exactly

they have varying lengths

[eager flint]

and get a 2-sack, can't forget

[unkempt scroll]

Idk if I can even beat the first area in 4 minutes

[eager flint]

maybe doable with a 3-sack if you took the miniboss second

[eager flint]

Do you take every skip possible though

like, midshop even if you are poor, all chaos, all story rooms

[proper furnace]

Outside of timer what other pacts are you doing

[unkempt scroll]

Uhh, right now, none, since I've just started on a new game file. And I usually don't do the timer since I don't usually feel very fast at it

[vagrant crane]

on a fresh file its gonna be much more difficult

[unkempt scroll]

I usually only take the skips if I need them?

[proper furnace]

Yeah newer files will struggle

[unkempt scroll]

Yeah, well, I'm not aiming for speedruns :I

[proper furnace]

No mirror, unleveled aspects, lack of keepsakes

[vital night]

What’s your reason for starting a new save file every run if you don’t mind me asking

[vagrant crane]

on a levelled file you can more consistently get below ~7 min every run

[unkempt scroll]

I'm not. As I said earlier, I usually start over when I get back from a break, because I like the prologue story.

[vagrant crane]

maybe 8

[eager flint]

yeah 30 minutes runs are pretty normal if you don't have a good metaprogression

[vital night]

Just aim for a fresh file clear ez

Every run you get the prologue

[eager flint]

What even is the average clear time for a fftc ?

[unkempt scroll]

I think I usually clear a run within 20-25 mins when I've maxed most of the mirror and stuff?

[eager flint]

"most" doesn't mean much tbh

[vital night]

Sorry I mistyped, meant every time you return

[unkempt scroll]

A 30-ish minute run is probably if I have fists and rather unlucky run

[eager flint]

fists are pretty low DPS if you don't go for merciful end

[unkempt scroll]

Ah. I just like to start over on games, Idk why. I also like the prologue story, so, that's a plus

Is that a duo? Don't quite remember the names and such

[eager flint]

or zapfist

[eager flint]

yeah, Athena/Ares duo

absolutely broken

skyrockets your DPS through the roof and then some

It's basically competitive with straight up bugged builds

(not as good, but not much worse)

[unkempt scroll]

I see.
Well, back when the game released I got around to 32 heat with fists. Was probably my record. Didn't really bother with trying to get to that again. To be honest, that statue eain't that much worth :p

[vagrant crane]

yall see the guy who posted an obviously cheated 9s em3 chiron heroes on reddit

whats even the point

[proper furnace]

Lmao what

[vagrant crane]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/19c51xu/chiron_an_oceans_fury_9_second_heroes_fight

really makes you feel like damue

[proper furnace]

Lmfao

Lvl 100 PP

[potent tree]

Chiron good

[proper furnace]

When crit rate boosted yeah

[eager flint]

I'm wondering now

if the game had all its bugs fixed, would ME be the strongest build in the game ?

[vagrant crane]

no

hera

[eager flint]

fair enough

[vagrant crane]

and achiklles

and nem

and probably still beo

[eager flint]

doesn't nem still build ME most of the time ? Ofc going crit/big% is amazing, but I didn't know it was better than ME

... Dedge kinda good though

[vagrant crane]

wr isnt ME

most people do shackle

[eager flint]

I mean, wr is not the only metric about how effective a build is. There's enough variance in speedruns for that.

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

me rn

[eager flint]

I legit never thought of using shackle on nemesis, it makes so much sense

[lucid oar]

clockets eris would probably still be insane

[eager flint]

-70% damage would be felt though

[tight basin]

Do people start shackle and reset for tdash or do they start tdash and take shackle before aspho

[vagrant crane]

idk

nobody plays nem

[tight basin]

Unfortunate

Nem is like the only other aspect I'm vaguely comfortable with lmao

I could probably do eris or hestia but I don't like rail lmao

[potent tree]

I like how jazz was gonna take a break from Hades

[plain river]

Patty on Chamber 28

Or ig it’s really chamber 29

[vagrant crane]

im currently taking a short break frm hades while trying to make the most infuriating progrma ever invented work (livesplit)

why does it work in the courtyard but not in a run

[plain river]

Somehow my only 32 heat spear run that’s made it to Hades was also the one with arguably the worst luck

Patty was 1 chamber short of lasting to Hades, got lightning phalanx literally just for Hades fight so I was missing it for literally the entire rest of the run (y’know, where it would’ve actually put in leg work)

Hermes was just dubious quality all around, ended up w/ dodge and cast speed so ig it could’ve been worse but still

[south sonnet]

mine was an achilles hunting blades run without any duos

[tight basin]

Just get the duo imo

[south sonnet]

duos dont exist on achilles

[proper furnace]

I'm surprised you two played those runs until that point

[south sonnet]

they are meant to be a ruse, to distract you

[tight basin]

I got both mirage and hunting blades last night

Easy

On pride

[south sonnet]

i have seen the truth

[tight basin]

#h1-victory-boasting message

[rain grove]

does anyone got a rail build idrc which aspect its my lowest used weapon and i need some ambrosia

[south sonnet]

zeus on attack
splitting bolt
jolted
poseidon on dash

[rain grove]

ty which aspect btw?

[south sonnet]

not hestia

but eris is preferred

[rain grove]

ight

ty

am i meant to get sea storm?

[proper furnace]

Nah

Tidal just does high dmg

[rain grove]

ight

[south sonnet]

if you want more duos, get smoldering air and zeus call

[proper furnace]

Just pom thia and static discharge

Also for hammers

Rocket/cluster ideal

[rain grove]

ight

what else is goodthough

[proper furnace]

Triple/targetting ok

Delta is great for defense

[rain grove]

alr tysm <3

[proper furnace]

Hazard is a meme but if you trust your dodge

(on eris I mean)

[rain grove]

im gonna be using eris so

[south sonnet]

hazard is free god gauge

[vagrant crane]

just got my 3rd barge in 3 aspho midbosses

this game is intolerable

how do people play this

[eager flint]

They're not trying to sub6 every run, mostly

[manic creek]

Eh I'm here for Zagreus tbh

[vagrant crane]

i hate this game

[plain river]

I don’t like reseting

[plain river]

🙄

You can pretend that if you want ig

[potent tree]

jazz in denial

[fervent root]

Guys, I’m having trouble beating my first Heat run. I actually beat the game a few days ago, which I’m very happy about, but any tips on how to beat the final boss and build would be appreciated!!!

[eager flint]

which heat did you take ? They have vastly different difficulty, even when they're worth the same heat value

otherwise for a comprehensive guide: https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide

[rain grove]

zeus shield build?

[plain river]

Throw zeus on special and just hit more zeus

look for aphrodite on strike and zeus’s call after that

[rain grove]

alr

[plain river]

Static discharge is particularly good

It’s hard to notice without a dps mod installed but it puts in a ton of legwork

[rocky arrow]

Dionysus on special, aphro on attack, Arty cast, ares revenge, stack as many duos as you can.

[tight basin]

Even with duos I'm fairly certain that build is straight up weaker lmao

[plain river]

It’s stronger if you swap arte cast for anyone else tbh

her duos just dilute your pool for little value

[limber fjord]

Splitting headache just isn't that great

[plain river]

Nor is heart rend when your source of crit chance is splitting headache

[proper furnace]

You need pp for hangover to crit iirc, headache alone doesn't work

Not that is hard to get but still

[plain river]

Wait

[proper furnace]

Headache is weird

[plain river]

I mean

I guess it is exactly what they tell you tbf

[limber fjord]

I wonder what the optimal 4th god is on hangover

[proper furnace]

Pos for ea

[plain river]

I figure just zeus or pos tbh

Not EA but for Sweet Nectar

double poms on hangover

[limber fjord]

Splash dash

So right

[plain river]

zeus w/ like smair also works

Like yeah it dilutes your pool but smair is smair

[limber fjord]

Was thinking so as well but it opens the awful autorevenge boon

[plain river]

It doesn’t if you just sell your CoV asap

Just hit CoN and leaveee

[proper furnace]

Don't you need a normal ares core too

[limber fjord]

Thought cov was enough to open

Cool ig

[plain river]

You need 3 for vengeful mood

1 ares core 1 vengeance and 1 zeus core

So you could have heavens vengeance instead

Oh btw vengeance boons prok in order you get them so if you get Curse of Vengeance, then Holy Shield and ME

[limber fjord]

I still need to do the pacifist build

[south sonnet]

the TRUE pacifist run:
no attacking any enemies directly, or through gods directly. your only methods of damage are:
reflecting(since it was the enemies' fault for attacking)
traps(hades' fault and the enemies' fault)
enemies killing themselves(stop drunk driving)

just hope for athena aid and traps

[plain river]

True gamer run: all of this but with td

[unreal ridge]

Holy <expletive>. Demeters legendary works on bosses? O.o

She's even snarky about it 🤣

[eager flint]

yeah it's very cool

[rocky arrow]

Good aspect of Arthur build?

[plain river]

Aphro strike, zeus call, smouldering air

Just get more strike boons, if you see double edge you can focus dash strikes intead

Since each of your dashstrikes will then be 100 base damage

Which allows for smooth consistent damage that using the full combo doesn’tt

If you see like shadow slash or brwschin slash you can take them too

[plain river]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/795659377755422742/1092918262649602058/IMG_3411.png?ex=65c29f73&is=65b02a73&hm=9a638053b58182c34fafe1a6d58ce80ef8695df22178defb54ddc335697de00c&

That should help for hammers

Double edge is less valuable than shadow slash on arthur I believr

I’m not a huge arthur gamer though so idk

Some people will recommend crit on arthur but I wouldn’t mainly because you either end up doing way too little damage per strike without chaos

Or an unnecessary amount over

where aphrodite will be a consistently good source of damage

[eager flint]

On eris, should I start tdash or Zeus attack?

[proper furnace]

Zeus

Rail atk kinda miserable w/o it

[eager flint]

Gotcha

[proper furnace]

(also applied to hammer starts)

[analog mauve]

just get the c2 boon

[proper furnace]

So true

I'd still prefer zeus start into c2 hammer tho

(and the real answer is just get the enemies)

[analog mauve]

2 louts

[kindred ether]

is the hammer that restores 2 health on hit good?

I feel like it always helps me

(for sword)

It just lets me play super sloppy without worrying

[tight basin]

Generally considered one of the worst sword hammers lmao

Because the best combo for sword is special -> 2x dash strikes -> repeat

And cursed slash doesn't effect dash strikes

[kindred ether]

ohhhh

that makes sense

any tips for grinding darkness? Right now I just go with like 5 heat (to practice em3-4) pick the weapon with darker thirst and try to get the chaos and posideon effects that boost darkness amounts. I just use tidal dash to finish the run.

If all goes well I get about 2k per run

[analog mauve]

That's it

[kindred ether]

oh lmao

no hidden tricks or anything?

[analog mauve]

Don't forget to check wells shops and troves too

Otherwise that's it

[kindred ether]

yeah troves are super worth it

[analog mauve]

The fish in chaos give a lot of darkness too

[kindred ether]

I thought rail was the worst weapon in the game but my last run has changed my opinion drastically. The damage with eris is crazy 🤣

[analog mauve]

:gladge:

[ivory turtle]

Oh I feel that man. I HATED rail for like the first 150 hours-ish that I put into the game... then I got Eris clockets and I understood

[kindred ether]

fr

zeus attack too

its super fun

everytime I do the run i get the zeus legendary lol

[south sonnet]

i hate rail and still do(its too complex)

[gusty rapids]

but gun go pew :(

[tight basin]

Wild croven jump scare

[vagrant crane]

croven spotted

i think croven is the top runner who is most active in sggcord

already in the top 3 by being in sggcord

[tight basin]

You literally have multiple wrs

[vagrant crane]

yeah but theyre pretty fake

[tight basin]

[eager flint]

https://reductress.com/post/quiz-are-you-even-good-enough-to-have-imposter-syndrome/

[rain grove]

which weapon/aspect with hunting blades

[vagrant crane]

achilles

[rain grove]

alr

[ivory turtle]

Ok question

[crude oriole]

when you have double edge and ares attack on sword, does dash strike hitting twice count as stacking doom?

wondering if taking dire misfortune is a complete waste or not

[tight basin]

it would hit twice and therefore count as stacking doom, but dire misfortune isn't really worth going for either way lmao

if it's there youd just take it, but i'd roll over it to get impending doom

[crude oriole]

i'm guessing if given the choice, impending doom would still be better? one is in absolute numbers and the other in percentage so there is no way for me to know

oh, yeah. thanks!

[tight basin]

well the absolute number is like

14 lmao

dire misfortune is only good on meme doom builds

namely like luci or chiron

it's like decent before you get ME but you'd rather get impending

[hushed saffron]

@tight basin I switch channel. I think that 1 cast thing was really good for me to apprehend the mechanics cause when I started speedrunning, I was used to not cast at all during a run

So that was nice. But now I often come to situation where I want to cast but I have to wait for the reload and it's a bit annoying so I feel like having 3 would be more benefitial to my play style

Im just not used to getting crystals (or whatever the name) back

[tight basin]

Fair enough

I just always use infernal and don't feel like changing it lmao

It's convenient for one shotting enemies like brimstones, numbskulls, and pots

[hushed saffron]

So you have 12s less on my PB time for Tartarus (though I've done around same as you one time xd) and 1m05 less after Lernie.

My Asphodel path is really sh*t

And 1mn51 on my PB run after Theseus, so you grab another 1mn almost in Ely 😦

Our time after Ely is similar

[plain river]

I wouldn’t say “one is absolute numbers and one is % so I can’t possibly know” because it’s really ez to check tbh

The lowest rarity impending doom on the lowest rarity curse of agony is adding more than dire misfortune

[crude oriole]

i put the emphasis there to show i'm just too lazy and scared of maths to figure it out

[plain river]

and you would need an absurd amount of extra additive for dire misfortune to be better than your worst impending doom tbh

[crude oriole]

yeah, if given the choice i'd have chosen impending doom. the question was more wether dire misfortune adds anything at all

i don't like ares cast (and call, and dash) so i wondered wether dire misfortune would be an option if i'm offered lots of ares

[plain river]

It’s an option

If you have ME you might want to take slicing shot if you see it

Just to make your boon odds betrr because boiling blood has less value

[sacred pulsar]

What would be considered the overall best aspect / build for time ?

beo ?

~~i dont like beo at all ~~

[proper furnace]

Beo is certainly the top yeah lmao

The other zoom aspects are nem/achilles/hera/dem/eris

Rama/hestia are also fast

[crystal rover]

Explosive shot, relentless volley, or charged shot

[proper furnace]

What aspect

[crystal rover]

The one the puts on casts to your shots

[proper furnace]

Also charged shot is a shield hammer

Hmm for hera, explosive stops you from getting flurry which is better, relentless/charged do nothing

If you don't mind not having flurry/having slower charge to release casts ig go for it

Also is this first or 2nd hammer

[crystal rover]

First

[crystal rover]

I mean charged volley

[proper furnace]

Ok yeah the relentless/charged thing applies, if you take those you can still get flurry

[plain river]

Charged volley has it’s own meme builds

[crystal rover]

What are meme builds

[plain river]

builds used for fun rather then effectiveness

And the actual “fun” factor is subjective

[crystal rover]

Sniper thriple or perfect shot

[eager flint]

perfect

unless you want to play melee

in which case triple

[stable wren]

any broken builds for the twin fists that isnt merciful end iv used it to beat hades a buncha times now i wanna try something different

[eager flint]

zapfist

[stable wren]

thanks, do you know any page that tells which boons to avoid or how to get the build started?

[eager flint]

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide

[stable wren]

tysm

[stable wren]

sorry but does the site say anything about zapfists? i cant seem to find it

[eager flint]

it's at "all the zeus" and there's also tips at zeus fist and dem fist

[stable wren]

ohk thanks

[stable wren]

lmao that was fun

first try baby

what else is there?

[lucid oar]

Uhh those 2 are the strongest ones

But you can do fun ones like talos with poseidon special

Talos with curse of drowning

Dash only with Gilgamesh

[tight basin]

That tart for me I consider pretty bad lol the only reason I kept going was because I already had Athena dash

[tight basin]

I like explosive hera lmao

Because I'm bad at flurry and explosive isn't that bad imo

Esp for unmodded

[plain river]

Talos with/blizzard shot

[plain river]

Flurry or explosive on eris

other option is spread so idk

It’s not lightning strike so I don’t need to worry about the internal cooldowns

[tight basin]

Flurry

Explosive doesn't really do anything

[rocky arrow]

Does triple shot on hera bow triple cast damage?

[tight basin]

No just shoots three arrows

The cast comes out the middle one

[rocky arrow]

Oh ok

[rocky arrow]

Crystal Beam builds are so fun lmao

[stable shell]

or agonizingly bad, depending on luck

[rocky arrow]

Yeah lol

Especially if you don’t get crystal clarity imo. The beams are so slow w/o it. Though Stygian Soul makes it so you can just keep stacking em, especially with Auto Reload

[fervent root]

Yeah, agreed.

Sometimes I get Crystal Beam and completely forget about using it until I look at it on the stats menu, which then I use it in Styx.

[onyx girder]

any got any recomended boons for posiedon special on talos fist ?

[plain river]

any other special tbh

[onyx girder]

nah i get my fastests runs on it, best thing for me

[plain river]

There isn’t much that interacts with pos special outside of just taking more pos boons

No duos really make it more worth it to use

At best you can try for mirage shot with like hunting blades or smthing

[onyx girder]

ill try it rq

will def struggle cuz i rarely use my cast w/o pos or dem on it tho

[plain river]

Speaking of pos on cast

I do enjoy blizzard shot on talso

It’s not especially good but it works

[onyx girder]

i prefer curse of drowning or sea storm, tho i notice no one likes pos on talos let alone fists at all, works wonders for me tho

gotta get em like a yoyo

[plain river]

tbf people are usually really extreme with fist

either they love it or they hate it

and then with talos it's literally just a matter of function

[onyx girder]

i can only really get by with weapons where i can do continous damage while using revenge boons, so only talos and zag spear work well for me, fists best weapon imo

pos is the god i mainly go to aswell, his dash then a talos magnet is magical

[tight basin]

im sure if you did a more attack focused build instead of playing pong with poseidon special you'd have a faster run lmao

[plain river]

I mean relying on revenge boons for damage works like

really badly

it's just bad dps on top of the fact that you're taking tons of damage

[onyx girder]

i tried that when i first started playing, but the damage output felt terrible and slow, it only ever felt good when i had support fire aswell

[plain river]

if support fire is your metric for good dps I think you may need to try again

with a way better idea of what to look for

[tight basin]

Probably didn't build it well

Any sort of flat damage on the attack feels at the minimum decent

[plain river]

ie. lighting, doom, hangover

[onyx girder]

i used a few builds i saw suggested on here, best was demeter instead of talos, merciful end, divine dash, dire misfortune, impending doom, and it only got me a 15 min escape

[plain river]

I mean that really is the best you're going to see with fists

[onyx girder]

i usually average 12 mins

[tight basin]

I mean that's objectively better than pos special talos

[plain river]

then it's not a build issue

[onyx girder]

then do you know a possible better build that uses fists or spear, that could nudge me in the right direction

[plain river]

I mean Merciful End is literally the peak you'll find with fists

especially on demeter

for spear on the otherhand

Achilles works really well

look for flurry jab (or serrated as a discount version of it)

typically start with tidal dash, then you have a decision based on what you find in tartarus. If you see artemis, you take her strike and take ares keepsake into asphodel, if you see ares you take his cast and take artemis into asphodel. If you see zeus, you take his strike and take athena into asphodel, and if you see athena you take her cast and take zeus into asphodel

for hermes you practically universally want to take hyper sprint -> rush delivery, or greatest reflex for more dashes

if you want a more straight forward build

just skip starting with tidal dash from poseidon

and take artemis or zeus into tartarus

Does that make sense?