Yeah but then you lose one of the hammers for buffing the special
#h1-builds-and-combat
tight basin
The spins also don't get bonus damage
plain river
You can use serrated point instead but the dash range down is painful
tight basin
I mean serrated is kinda the "git gud" hammer on hades spear
Mysterra did like 50+ on it or something
plain river
I mean serrated is kinda the "git gud" hammer on hades spear
Permanent dash range down just sucks
Getting good doesn’t change the fact that it’s annoying
tight basin
I mean I guess but also "git gud" lmao
Like spin build guan Yu kinda sucks but it's also a git gud thing
tight basin
I mean yeah that's my exact point
keen vortex
i dont think ive ever used guan yu and i dont know that id ever like to lmao
tight basin
The heat record for guan Yu the build had Rd lmao
And was almost a minute over time
Granted it skipped like a shop or two and took a trial
But like spin builds aren't easy esp how they played lmao
south sonnet
i find spin builds satisfying
it does good consistent damage
like if dio greater call did something
keen vortex
i find spin builds satisfying
hence why i love the hades one
sure the max range charge is a bit extra to think about but when you throw the right boons on it it feels so fun
like YES, i’d like to inflict hangover on the whole room, thank you
tight basin
Guan Yu is more spin for more value lmao
keen vortex
at the cost of my life though
i worked hard to upgrade my base health with the mirror, sacrificing that for a moveset change? meh
but thats just me
limber fjord
66% hp and healing increase is pretty powerful
keen vortex
fully upgraded, you’d start with exactly 50 health, even with the mirror, right?
or am i wrong
limber fjord
yes
keen vortex
thats kinda just bad
limber fjord
i can imagine spin to win refilling entire hp bars in dense rooms
though isn't the healing like 1 per tick
south sonnet
so if you dont get annihilated warder speeder numbskulls, speeder/seeker/cloner witch spam, or speeder slugger louts, youre fine
south sonnet
though isn't the healing like 1 per tick
yep
keen vortex
its 1 per hit
south sonnet
not to be relied on for facetanking
keen vortex
i mean i feel like if you have i think its athena/demeter’s duo for the no defiance healing it might be not entirely terrible
south sonnet
> speeder/seeker/cloner witch spam
<:medUncanny:928660904604745769>
speeder seeker spreader spam
ssss
limber fjord
cloner speeder witches have cost me whole hp bars in tart
south sonnet
somehow speeder brimstones do damage to me
tight basin
*thats kinda just bad*
I mean the guy who cleared 60 heat with it didn't pop an SD until like Elysium lol
limber fjord
speeder wringers on their way to stunlock me 
keen vortex
I mean the guy who cleared 60 heat with it didn't pop an SD until like Elysium l...
jeez, whats that guy on i want some
tight basin
Lean into the life steal a lot
The guys on a couple hundred or maybe thousand hours on guan Yu lol
limber fjord
what was the pact for that 60 lmao, everything - em4?
limber fjord
oh i should've guessed that from SD 💀
tight basin
Keeps double dash
south sonnet
generally you only lose ri or td
tight basin
After like 50 heat em4 is necessary
south sonnet
also heat 59 zagsword when
tight basin
Maybe even starting 50
south sonnet
also heat 59 zagsword when
it is definitely possible, seeing as how an unoptimized run got 37 minutes
keen vortex
I mean the guy who cleared 60 heat with it didn't pop an SD until like Elysium l...
but then again, thats also around when i normally have to pop my SD
sometimes i’ll get touch of styx dark from patroclus and pop it on purpose depending how bad things are going
limber fjord
i wonder if gy is easier on sticks or kbm
i have awful dash strike timing on kbm for gy
keen vortex
Kbm?
south sonnet
keyboard mouse
south sonnet
kmb
tight basin
Keymouse board
south sonnet
i want to say something but its not very family friendly
keen vortex
i’m a console player, i’d imagine everything is at least slightly easier on controller
keen vortex
i was about to say the opposite, wouldnt mkb turn railgun into a point and click adventure game lmao
limber fjord
no sticks aim magnetism is unhinged
like you can be within a 180 degree cone in the direction of your target and it'll snap
meanwhile i miss hestia shots all the time on mkb
(not skill issue)
keen vortex
no sticks aim magnetism is unhinged
oh believe me, i know
i had to come here to ask how to get around the assist on lucifer cuz i couldnt hit the bombs cuz it only snaps to enemies
limber fjord
not if you use the dark forbidden triple bomb tech someone found here 
keen vortex
i wish there was an assist percentage as opposed to just on or off
keen vortex
they have a cap of 4
i’ve only recently started to try and use it so i genuinely didnt know, BUT i also feel like i shouldnt have to kind of waste 3 shots to blow up one?
that might sound blasphemous but maybe thats just how i see it? I don’t know.
keen vortex
Honestly i lowkey wish there was a hammer that gave them a timer
or something like that
keen vortex
no you can place all 4 near each other
yknow sometimes i just dont think lol
limber fjord
i mean that's technically what triple bomb does
you fire 3 then wait for cooldown then fire 3 more
💥
tight basin
Why not just blow them up asap
limber fjord
¯_(ツ)_/¯
also you can use a damaging dash to det them so
luci plays like eris
melee gun
keen vortex
literally earlier today i realized ive been playing the wrong aspect of rail the whole time
More accurately, i realized hestia isnt as useful as i used to think it was
limber fjord
hestia is great
it's got 3rd place in any heat unmodded behind the two fastest aspects in the game
keen vortex
yeah, but i constantly forget about its gimmick when im actually using it
like eris, i could ACCIDENTALLY play well cuz of standing in the explosion without thinking
potent tree
Pretend you're using a bolt action rifle
keen vortex
https://tenor.com/view/meet-the-sniper-gif-9022732005398095940
pff
that shouldnt be that funny
limber fjord
you really aren't supposed to use the other 11 bullets unless the target is low
keen vortex
if only the bow WAS as easy as huntsman lol
keen vortex
you really aren't supposed to use the other 11 bullets unless the target is low
hm never really thought of it
potent tree
Imagine being good at 3D games 😮
keen vortex
i normally run priv status so i tend to load them up with multiple debuffs, hence the full magazine of shots
limber fjord
stop clicking priv status on hestia then
potent tree
Priveleged Status 
limber fjord
fam fav is better in like 80-99% of scenarios anyways
south sonnet
stop clicking priv status in general, unless you PLAN to have 2 easy to access debuffs in your build
keen vortex
i know im in the minority but 40% is more than 25
and big number go hehe
vagrant crane
25% is bigger than 0%
which is what pstatus gives if you have a normal people build
potent tree
That 40% is additive with other bonuses
keen vortex
stop clicking priv status in general, unless you PLAN to have 2 easy to access d...
im almost always planning that
maybe I play REALLY weird
vagrant crane
im almost always planning that
well there's your issue
99% of the time planning for 2 curses sucks
keen vortex
Ive had a lot of success with it
i mean its quite literally random, what works and what doesnt
limber fjord
you build also has 0% damage if you don't hit 2 curse/don't have 2 curse yet
meanwhile fam fav gives you 5% damage in chamber 2
(75% of the time)
south sonnet
ive never gotten that chamber 1 god on hidden shield
potent tree
Priv Status has like crazy opportunity costs too since it takes at least one hit + dash or two hits to start working. Meanwhile Fam Favorite's like "gogogogogogo"
south sonnet
always 2 damage away from killing those witches
keen vortex
meanwhile fam fav gives you 5% damage in chamber 2
thats a fair point
honestly my rng with that HAS been getting worse as of late
i’ll switch to famfav tonight and see how it feels
but it wouldnt be the first time i’ve been in the minority with what builds i think are good or fun
potent tree
Fun is subjective, but optimization not so much
limber fjord
also another issue is that of all the most powerful aspects, eris maybe is the only one that gets good value off of priv
south sonnet
you dont see how it feels because it lasts for the whole run all the time
limber fjord
rama hestia hera beo all hate priv
south sonnet
also another issue is that of all the most powerful aspects, eris maybe is the o...
me might work fine depending on how pstatus works with it
keen vortex
but it wouldnt be the first time i’ve been in the minority with what builds i th...
like my best friend gilgamesh, which EVERYONE has always been like “ew why” at
south sonnet
gilg is one of those aspects
keen vortex
rama hestia hera beo all hate priv
honestly i DID notice that on beo, now that you mention it
south sonnet
gilg is one of those aspects
the other one is chiron
and sometimes people think chaos shield is cool
south sonnet
and then they end up wondering why elysium is so hard
keen vortex
i love it, and have beaten the game with it several times
in fact, i havent beat it with beo yet, and i really want to change that cuz its so cool
potent tree
Yer a crazy cat, ThatOneK1dUNo, and I respect ya for it
limber fjord
made it work
south sonnet
Yer a crazy cat, ThatOneK1dUNo, and I respect ya for it
what about me trying to do rucks' dream without any upgrades
one day i will add shrine
potent tree
Well, you're a dog, not a cat
keen vortex
Yer a crazy cat, ThatOneK1dUNo, and I respect ya for it
I like the weird builds
If 70% of my run isnt built around me regretting the funny bit i started in tartarus, i’m not playing hades
potent tree
It would be Eris's Hera's throne
limber fjord
is hera actually slower?
limber fjord
hestia has 2 records above eris unmodded any heat
keen vortex
But yeah, chaos aspect shield, gilgamesh, even the occasional arthur run
If i don’t regret my build by elysium, i’m doing something wrong
limber fjord
you definitely use aspects of all time
i wish i could have this much willpower
half the time i meme around on chiron i wish i was on hera
keen vortex
I used chiron until i got rama
keen vortex
But yeah, chaos aspect shield, gilgamesh, even the occasional arthur run
If i do...
Nemesis is my preferred sword though
poseidon always seemed like trash to me
i like my stones being useful
limber fjord
i like my stones being useful
your stones are useful
you're dealing damage with them
pos also gets a nice +50% cast damage
keen vortex
well yeah but i like my stones staying lodged is more what im saying
which is why i SHOULD sorta love hera, but for some reason i cant get behind it
keen vortex
but doesnt Poseidon being useful revolve around always using a lodging cast?
limber fjord
i mean sure
lucid oar
It’s just a different build path
limber fjord
you can also use pos as a statstick for 50% cast damage and toss meme beams or hunting blades
keen vortex
but doesnt Poseidon being useful revolve around *always* using a lodging cast?
like it immediately becomes useless on what, every cast except zeus and artemis?
limber fjord
base zeus arte athena pos aphro
limber fjord
yes
lucid oar
Yup
keen vortex
i feel so stupid
limber fjord
ares dio dem all are not lodging
proper furnace
Beams/blade/trippy are the only non lodging
keen vortex
jeez i feel dumb lol
limber fjord
abuse lightning phalanx on pos
keen vortex
i’ve spent MOST of my playtime (greater than 200 runs)
thinking only arte and zeus lodge
and hating zeus’s for not staying in what i want it to
im GLAD i came here
keen vortex
Did you like not use any other cast or???
little bit, yeah, but i gave up on most of em for the other changes they do like the range
limber fjord
aphro and athena are the only two lodging i'd consider for actual damage
poseidon lodge isn't real
flare is the only version that exists
proper furnace
I'm too weak to do non hera crush shot
limber fjord
same tbh
lucid oar
Lightning phalanx is a lot of fun
limber fjord
and tbf if you aren't running a cast build your choice doesn't matter that much anyways
maybe you don't want arte cast for rod because that thing will track but
lucid oar
Rod good 😠
limber fjord
it is
lucid oar
Oh right
proper furnace
Crush shot ideal rod cast
limber fjord
unrelated, how on earth are you supposed to scale % damage builds like zagbow or hestia
proper furnace
Add more chaos
limber fjord
pomming the attack boon seems pointless
proper furnace
If its aphro is fine to pom it
tight basin
Tidal dash
proper furnace
Also on hestia you pray for clockets
limber fjord
ugh
keen vortex
honestly i wish all of them did at least a LITTLE percent buff in addition to the debuff but i know that’s the point
limber fjord
it wouldn't matter
like at all
btw i'm including cast builds into flat damage builds
because poms add flat damage
keen vortex
so flat damage meaning like just trying to go nuts on the percentages themselves, ignoring whatever debuff it might be?
tight basin
btw i'm including cast builds into flat damage builds
That is flat damage
limber fjord
flat damage is doom/lightning/hangover/casts
the idea is that you can increase your damage pretty rapidly with poms
tight basin
Flat damage is not %
keen vortex
oh so the OPPOSITE of what i thought
tight basin
the idea is that you can increase your damage pretty rapidly with poms
And rd
tight basin
and get % damage from weapons or chaos and go galactic
Chaos doesn't boost flat damage
limber fjord
for casts specifically, sorry
keen vortex
a lot of my runs used to be that
i used to go doom/hangover as often as i could, but then everything started to feel a bit braindead
plain river
They won’t feel as braindead if you spice up your experience with other builds and other aspects tbh
keen vortex
Thats what i started doing
plain river
experimenting has kept me in for the long haul
keen vortex
Nowadays im a lot less selective
plain river
But then you return to them every so often
Hangover just works
I love it
Just need poms and tolerance
limber fjord
i'm on the opposite end, i hate hangover
keen vortex
I used to outright avoid demeter and aphro, but nowadays i’ll put em in rotation every so often
limber fjord
feels like there's nothing to improve my damage after i hit all stacks
keen vortex
feels like there's nothing to improve my damage after i hit all stacks
thats about the main reason i started using priv status, despite its drawbacks
plain river
feels like there's nothing to improve my damage after i hit all stacks
just get more poms
proper furnace
Add a duo or two
plain river
I can’t be bothered to turn off family favourites
proper furnace
Visit your ol' pal hermes
limber fjord
#h1-victory-boasting message rush delivery really is the tipping point for flat vs % 
the gameplay looks awful but i'm shredding
plain river
Visit your ol' pal hermes
Can confirm this really is the strat
Find your duos and hermes
proper furnace
Chaos attack carry
plain river
Nah it was broken resolve carry
plain river
rd is a league of it's own tbh
Perhaps even… a different league?
limber fjord
i wonder if runners reset for purple hyper delivery
south sonnet
nope
plain river
They don’t
plain river
By the time you get second hermes you’re halfway in
proper furnace
I wanna see a good run with chaos extension into tart rd
plain river
Real winners know you reset the second you’re off wr pace anyways
proper furnace
Or someone doing well manip
keen vortex
Real random, does anybody know the average final speed buff for a run where you only use the plume?
i’ve been thinking about that all day
tight basin
If you take every combat then you can calculate the theoretical
limber fjord
33 fights then 5 styx rooms is 38 total
south sonnet
theres also dad
south sonnet
the max number of possible chambers is like 70-80
limber fjord
i thought boss rooms counted for hermes?
tight basin
Plume only counts last room
limber fjord
iirc they do
keen vortex
Plume only counts last room
for styx you mean, right?
tight basin
Yes
proper furnace
Are we counting erebus extensions too
keen vortex
thats at least a tiny bit disappointing cuz charon well stuff is calculated per room
limber fjord
uh
proper furnace
Cuz that's 3 more combats
keen vortex
Are we counting erebus extensions too
technically i said average, so if you want, yes
plain river
Real random, does anybody know the average final speed buff for a run where you ...
Not enough
limber fjord
if you're looking to actually play optimally you probably try to get 3 free rooms
south sonnet
thats at least a tiny bit disappointing cuz charon well stuff is calculated per ...
it would be kinda broken if you could stack both ely and the entirety of styx wells
plain river
thats at least a tiny bit disappointing cuz charon well stuff is calculated per ...
Same as butterfly
keen vortex
i guess i only really care cuz of touch of styx dark
limber fjord
"hey dad money does buy power"
plain river
Ig it’s from the devs so you don’t swap to butterfly or plume just in the end
south sonnet
it would be kinda broken if you could stack both ely and the entirety of styx we...
that would be a total of 6 wells if you had 6 rolls, which is the equivalent of 18 items
plain river
And gather a massive boost
proper furnace
Rolling on wells my beloved
plain river
i guess i only really care cuz of touch of styx dark
Often find it late enough to take it in with a 2sack thou
plain river
Rolling on wells my beloved
Mfw when I don’t have to use all my roll on hermes or bad chaos
limber fjord
i think you can expect roughly a 30-35% boost if you start feather and never take it off
proper furnace
I missed before when you said average but yeah that tracks
Assuming I got a build going
keen vortex
Often find it late enough to take it in with a 2sack thou
yeah ive found it late enough to still have it for dad, recently i just tend to get unlucky with styx rooms and miss it by like one encounter
proper furnace
Yeah alright I'm hitting dad with weak ass punches
proper furnace
Alright damue
limber fjord
i think it would be interesting to see just how fast you could possibly clear if you had perfect rng
plain river
Honestly though
Walking into dad fight with almost max hp
is pretty nice
Yeah having the hp on revive it also handy
But it’s kind of enough by itself
limber fjord
i think the most amount of hp i fought dad with was 365
keen vortex
Walking into dad fight with almost max hp
thats why i love strong drink
south sonnet
then hera would be better than beo
plume/butterfly+pp+crush shot+quick reload+mirage+supporting stuff, all epic
plain river
thats why i love strong drink
??
keen vortex
Full health at dad
south sonnet
strong drink
until i lc4
plain river
Ohhhhhh
south sonnet
strong drink<:zagluv:687002515069468715>
until i lc4
then its just uc fodder/filler boon
plain river
I mixed strong drink up with the other dio boon
limber fjord
i am gods strongest strong drink defender
keen vortex
i am gods strongest strong drink defender
honestly one of my favorite supports period
plain river
Idk the last time I took strong drink aside from dodging unwanted cores
plain river
high heat is almost all I’ve been touching because I lost my speed skills from my hiatus
south sonnet
do heat 41
plain river
But my heat skills are getting better
keen vortex
highest ive beat is like 6 ngl
south sonnet
i was planning to do heat 40, but forgot to change the pact and it ended up at 41
plain river
I got 40 
proper furnace
I'm washed at both zooming and heat so I just do em4 for the funnies
plain river
I’ve got to go higher but I kind of want to bring it up on my other aspects
proper furnace
And no real motivation for either
plain river
And no real motivation for either
Is it time for all aspects w/ shackle at 32 and then 40 
proper furnace
Ew
plain river
I’m going to do it
south sonnet
you could technically do all aspects shackle 64
plain river
you could technically do all aspects shackle 64
Uhhhhhh
south sonnet
itll just take a minor amount of pp rng
proper furnace
I mean???
plain river
Chaos on it’s way to time out regardless
south sonnet
heat 64 is easy, just crit on everything😎
south sonnet
just have more rng
plain river
it just compounds y’know
plain river
i think cshot can handle that
After dealing with 50+ chambers of dc2 cp2 js3
On td3 time
tight basin
Cp2 em4 <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Easy
Just get beo
I should try and sub1 cp2 em4 fight lmao
plain river
Just get beo
The idea was “any aspect csn clear 64 heat theoreticslly”
keen vortex
Totally off topic-
Kinda wish each aspect had one or two exclusive hammers, not just the last ones
keen vortex
fair point, but maybe that’s fine?
keen vortex
Like i could see chaos aspect shield having one that tightens the spread on the multi throw
proper furnace
Make it so it brings pre nerf chaos back
proper furnace
Idk 
tight basin
Amazing
tight basin
True
plain river
Totally off topic-
Kinda wish *each* aspect had one or two exclusive hammers, no...
tbf
Zag shield almost has exclusive hammers
both chaos and zeus can’t use a ton of the special hammers
keen vortex
Yknow what sounds fun? Zeus shield but for some reason the ability to load casts into the throw
plain river
beo with extra steps
keen vortex
yes, but thats the bull rush
proper furnace
Fusion mod is funnier
keen vortex
imagine blade rifts and zeus shield
plain river
hence why I said extra stepso
proper furnace
Bull rush and oops, 6 zeus shields
plain river
imagine blade rifts and zeus shield
how would it work
proper furnace
Release casts when pressing special?
Or hitting enemy
Or catching the shield
All sound
keen vortex
how would it work
have the cast come out of the shield once it reaches the end of its throw
plain river
and how would it be aimed
would it just go in a straight line from you? would it aim at the closest enemy?
proper furnace
That'll take longer than to just pressing cast thrice ngl
plain river
Would recalling the shield release them
keen vortex
Would recalling the shield release them
assuming you did so before the apex of the throw yes
keen vortex
would it just go in a straight line from you? would it aim at the closest enemy?
realistically that would depend on your boon, but realistically, homing to the nearest
Or it would use the exisitng ones from beo and hera
limber fjord
honestly if i had to design exclusive zeus shield hammers i'd do something like +area +damage/spin speed, special homes on targets, or adjusting flight speed
plain river
Zag sword unique hammer would be flurry but good
proper furnace
honestly if i had to design exclusive zeus shield hammers i'd do something like ...
Spin speed as in how often it hits?
proper furnace
Zeus^2 wouldn't benefit from it yeah
Normal special is like barely tapping the cooldown already
keen vortex
i could imagine zag rail having one thats just “even more ammo, but slightly less damage at the bottom of your magazine”
proper furnace
Big shield or homing sounds funny
keen vortex
zeus shield but chaos special
proper furnace
Tho homing also sounds annoying
plain river
i could imagine zag rail having one thats just “even more ammo, but slightly les...
Nahhhh
proper furnace
Zag rail already has an unique hammer
plain river
Spreadfire is zag rails unique hammer
proper furnace
Spread fire 
limber fjord
everyone made the same joke lmao
keen vortex
oh i totally forgot
limber fjord
i could imagine zag rail having one thats just “even more ammo, but slightly les...
this is hestia at home
limber fjord
can't comment spear attack is a myth
plain river
zag spear gets flurry special
keen vortex
I think the obvious, one of em gets a cast loaded throw, but which one?
Maybe hades?
plain river
We have enough cast loading as is
proper furnace
Might as well go all in and make them flares lmfao
keen vortex
We have enough cast loading as is
I agree and disagree because I think it would be cool if all of the weapons had an aspect that could do it
limber fjord
lame design
keen vortex
but it would get rid of the special nature of the others so
limber fjord
pos is honestly pretty based as a castpect
plain river
I don’t think that’s interesting tbh
limber fjord
very unique
plain river
talos is alsp pretty based
limber fjord
achilles would give you more attacks/casts per bull rush and let you refresh stacks
demeter hammer would reduce hits required from 12 -> 8 or double amount of specials you got for giga cutter
keen vortex
Maybe something for talos that has the third hit of the strike combo hit an enemy away to incentivize the magnetic cutter?
plain river
Talos could use something to buff the actual magnetised buff
plain river
Zag fists could get the old zag fists aspect
keen vortex
Magnetized enemies get stuck to an area around you for a short period? Call it- Prolonged Magnetism
plain river
hestia: load your special into your attack
proper furnace
Just more dmg/bring back old eris timer?
2nd one ain't really useful with practice
limber fjord
gun does not need better hammers tbh
proper furnace
True!
keen vortex
Maybe change hestia to all reloads instead of manual?
plain river
wdym
proper furnace
Empty magazine > big dmg reload
plain river
That wouldn’t change anything
proper furnace
But like why
keen vortex
Hestia only does the extra damage on manual reloads right
proper furnace
Yeah
south sonnet
it does on auto reload as well
plain river
yeah but when are you not manually reloading on hestia
proper furnace
it does on auto reload as well
???
plain river
When do you even end up with an empty clip on hestia
proper furnace
When I don't have wet dash and see numbskulls
keen vortex
Or maybe make hestia change the first few shots instead of just the one
proper furnace
Or maybe make hestia change the first few shots instead of just the one
I like this
Oh yeah reload speed
keen vortex
Double barrel shotgun baby
proper furnace
Literally nothing affects it lol
limber fjord
nem sword... ugh.
proper furnace
More dmg?
plain river
Sword range
proper furnace
Attach a 2nd sword at the end of your sword
Or just bring back snap nova
For the funnies
south sonnet
Attach a 2nd sword at the end of your sword
dedge but the daedalus put the attachment grooves wrong
proper furnace
Triple edge 🧠
south sonnet
instead of getting 2 swords side by side you have a sword on top of a sword
plain river
you gain a 2nd attack at 30% strength
Dedge at home
limber fjord
nem is a pretty boring aspect so idk what to do with it
south sonnet
after critting, special gets stronger???
limber fjord
interesting gameplay loop
proper furnace
Would fit along with P.wave into the sword tier ig
You are already doing special that often so enjoy free dmg
limber fjord
i enjoy how we haven't discussed bow because hera doesn't need more buffs and special hammers are chiron only anyways
plain river
Amd have it incompatible with dedgr
south sonnet
i enjoy how we haven't discussed bow because hera doesn't need more buffs and sp...
rama
plain river
i enjoy how we haven't discussed bow because hera doesn't need more buffs and sp...
Nah we just haven’t got there yet
proper furnace
We've just been avoiding bow lol
plain river
Triple edge just like triple jab and triple shot
limber fjord
i thought we're not including secret aspects as that was the whole point of this convo but sure
plain river
rama doesn’t have exclusive hammers wdym
south sonnet
hera:
loaded casts do more damage when power shot
chiron:
removes special
proper furnace
Tbf on that
I would change a few hidden hammers lol
Oh wait
Forgot flaring isn't the hidden of gy lmaooo
limber fjord
hera hammer: casts inherit % bonus from attacks at 15% effectiveness
this will NOT be broken
south sonnet
imo power shot damage boost is more balanced
proper furnace
hera hammer: casts inherit % bonus from attacks at 15% effectiveness <:kekw:6791...
Do you count explosive for this
limber fjord
sure why not
south sonnet
explosive sniper
proper furnace
Tho I wonder if the massive dmg boost is worth the lack of flurry
Prob harder to wall bug too
Unless the boost is so big you insta phase
south sonnet
with explosive sniper maybe
plain river
Zag bow hammer: +85% crit chance
south sonnet
thats useless
plain river
thats useless
Nah it’s balanced fr
south sonnet
just roll the 0-15% each time😎
proper furnace
I can and will make the joke again
keen vortex
Hades hammer- change the spear throw to a copy of hades’ shockwave skulls from his boss battle
proper furnace
I can and will make the joke again
Alright damue
tight basin
Hades hammer- change the spear throw to a copy of hades’ shockwave skulls from h...
That's his cast
The spear throw shouldn't copy his cast lol
keen vortex
wait so his cast does that AND boiling blood? It just depends on whether it hits you?
tight basin
Yeah
limber fjord
hades is literally just a bigger slower copy of you
keen vortex
and thats why i love his spear so much
tight basin
Also when the boiling blood effect ends a skull pops out of you and can do the shockwave effect lol
proper furnace
And a companion
keen vortex
I noticed his moveset was similar, but I didn’t realize it’s like quite literally an exact copy down to a tee
proper furnace
Also don't forget the revives
limber fjord
wait so his cast does that AND boiling blood? It just depends on whether it hits...
when his cast pops out it spawns an exploding skull regardless
budget rod smh
keen vortex
Kind of wish we got that as a mirror upgrade
Or, like I said, as part of the spear moveset
plain river
Guys
Apparently I’m a “Sigma” Wraith
what is the game trying to tell me
Also I suck with spear
tight basin
Have you tried not sucking
plain river
I thought I was pretty decent with every weapon
But I just got my bum handed to me by meg at 32
tight basin
Spear kinda sucks tbf
tight basin
Oh unfortunate
hushed saffron
Hi guys, I basically only like the gameplay of the sword and fists. I’m trying to choose which aspect I will max first. For the sword, I guess nemesis is the best choice. however im not sure to use properly. basically isijg special then dash attack, athena and artemis boons if possible. but i feel like it lacks damage or something…
for the fists, ive only tried aspect of talos one time and managed to beat hades during that one trial (im still beginner, beat hades just four times in total lol). but aspect of talos is not well ranked in most of tier lists… any other suggestion to try out maybe? what do you think of talos ?
limber fjord
fists are dem >= zag > talos > gilga
rocky vortex
fists are dem >= zag > talos > gilga
gilga that bad?
limber fjord
its really just not good
slow attacks, dash upper tends to be a negative, shorter dashes, longer dash recharge, 20 damage dash attacks
hushed saffron
fists are dem >= zag > talos > gilga
What don’t you like about talos? Main critics I’ve read is that it’s mono target but I didn’t feel it was a problem
limber fjord
i find it very inconsistent
hushed saffron
How so?
limber fjord
pull doesn't seem to work a lot of the time
hushed saffron
You mean it’s bugged?
limber fjord
i guess you can say that
if you find talos fun then go for it
demeter is definitely the best aspect of the 4 though
hushed saffron
Demeter is basically you charge your special with attacks and then unleash a huge power is it?
limber fjord
yes
hushed saffron
How do you know you’ve charged 12?
tight basin
What don’t you like about talos? Main critics I’ve read is that it’s mono target...
The only good thing is that it pulls enemies, but the debuff isn't worth it for fists
hushed saffron
What debuff? Might have missed something haha
tight basin
Also the magnetic pull hit thing messed with fiery presence lmao
tight basin
What debuff? Might have missed something haha
Whenever you pull something they take 50% more attack and cast damage
hushed saffron
Oh you call that a debuff
limber fjord
How do you know you’ve charged 12?
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1190800419203584095/1196157880294981702/image.png?ex=65b69bd6&is=65a426d6&hm=ceedbaff542b6fa507918d3ec36f2a8f754f9674fba8bc5adfaf46bc90b30bcb&=&format=webp&quality=lossless https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1190800419203584095/1196157754730086460/image.png?ex=65b69bb8&is=65a426b8&hm=3e220a8b815ba05338685671500d6f0eeb15cf91502258fc450037ac567e009f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
hushed saffron
Debuff is a malus in my mind lol
hushed saffron
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1190800419203584095/1196157880294981702...
Oh nice thanks
Ok I guess I will try Demeter or zag then
limber fjord
for sword nem is best aspect, you go special -> dash strike -> dash strike
hushed saffron
Kind of disappointed with the sword aspects even though it was at first my fav weapon
limber fjord
standing melees are terrible on swords not named arthur
hushed saffron
for sword nem is best aspect, you go special -> dash strike -> dash strike
I do this but I feel like I lack of damage
I’ve tried Arthur I don’t like at all
hushed saffron
I play sword cause it’s dynamic, Arthur is boring as hell
limber fjord
also get more chaos
i would hesitate to call sword "dynamic"
imo it's easily the most boring weapon
hushed saffron
Is it better to get attack bonus or assault bonus? (Not sure if it’s called assault in English, basically the dash strike thing)
hushed saffron
imo it's easily the most boring weapon
No wayyy, I don’t like other weapons haha except the fists. Might need to try again the shield though
hushed saffron
I’ve tried the Achilles spear aspect, I thought it was a fun gameplay but when I actually played I hated it
eager flint
Also the magnetic pull hit thing messed with fiery presence lmao
DC1 Talos starts 🧠
hushed saffron
lol wtf haha
hushed saffron
How come the ult charges that fast?
hushed saffron
That’s insane
Zeus shield gameplay is basically you throw your special and then just run around?
limber fjord
more or less? you can also knock people in to the shield and block with it while it's out
i'm just running circles cuz i have hyper sprint + rush delivery
hushed saffron
I could like this one hh
vagrant crane
i'm just running circles cuz i have hyper sprint + rush delivery
yeah don't do this
you're playing zeus there right
don't do that
hushed saffron
I’ll give up on the nemesis sword for now, kind of disappointed
vagrant crane
beo is better for speed anyways but don't do that on zeus
hushed saffron
I will go for Demeter or zag fists. Or maybe that Zeus shield which looks fun haha
limber fjord
jazz is way better than me at this game
vagrant crane
thats me
tight basin
jazz is way better than me at this game
Jazz is quite literally like a top 5 or 10 speedrunner lmao
hushed saffron
I didn’t understand anything of the video 🤣 and why do you keep opening the menu?
vagrant crane
pause buffering to look at situation
hushed saffron
That’s too advanced 🤣
I really didn’t understand anything of what you’re doing in the video hahaha
limber fjord
it's zeus shield ME
vagrant crane
Jazz is quite literally like a top 5 or 10 speedrunner lmao
ehhhh
theres like 50 people better than me tho
limber fjord
using special to apply doom then attack + bull rush (charge shot) to detonate it
tight basin
That’s too advanced 🤣
Jazz does it more than most people lol you don't have to do it midfight
tight basin
theres like 50 people better than me tho
Quite literally false
plain river
Quite literally false
Quite literally turr
hushed saffron
But it’s the Zeus shield on the video? Looked like something else no?
vagrant crane
thats zeus
plain river
I’m so good at Hades that I count as at least 40 ppl
hushed saffron
thats zeus
What do you think of talos? Also don’t like?
limber fjord
ugh wait i really should've been dash striking in my fight shouldn't i
vagrant crane
yes
hushed saffron
And Demeter and zag fists?
eager flint
Note that jazz's opinion on aspects don't count if you're not gunning for world record
eager flint
but also she's right, dem is best
and talos... I should get back to cooking with it I guess
tight basin
Zag fist is better than Talos because it doesn't have a funky special lmao
tight basin
and talos... I should get back to cooking with it I guess
If you want to cook you can ask sleep in speed cord for tips
Actually he left for a bit didn't he
Nvm lmao
Maybe he has Talos tech somewhere
hushed saffron
It’s funny though I beat hades with talos first try without sweating but I struggle to beat him on a normal run 🤣
Okok tomorrow I’ll go for dem or Zeus
Thanks for the help guys
eager flint
If you want to cook you can ask sleep in speed cord for tips
I feel like the best tip on any fist aspect is "get ME asap"
eager flint
but maybe there's some nuance
I was surprised by how deep the fist guide from uhhhh blood and darkness I forgot his name
the fist expert speedrunner
streamer too
legit the first hades streamer I watched
tight basin
I feel like the best tip on any fist aspect is "get ME asap"
I mean yeah but there's prob some Talos tech that uses the pull lmao
eager flint
But anyway, it was more complex than the "just click ME" I was expecting
hushed saffron
I feel like the best tip on any fist aspect is "get ME asap"
ME = ?
tight basin
Like if you use special then dash immediately, the special won't go through but you'll pull them
eager flint
Oh yeah true
vagrant crane
ananke
eager flint
I forgot that it's something not obvious but so useful
limber fjord
athena + ares duo boon
hushed saffron
It’s been many years I’m playing league of legends and I can’t get my attention on a solo game more than a few hours so I hesitated to buy hades. But I’m completely addicted now
Might have played 30h in 3 days or something lol
eager flint
League of Legends
hushed saffron
Any guide on Demeter fist and / or Zeus shield to recommend?
limber fjord
oh bugger it all i go offered a heroic swap to dio attack on fists and i didn't take it
eager flint
Any guide on Demeter fist and / or Zeus shield to recommend?
also works for literally every weapon lol
hushed saffron
Thanks
south sonnet
Any guide on Demeter fist and / or Zeus shield to recommend?
zeus shield:
zeus on special, get every zeus boon in existence(minus splitting bolt because it prevents you from blocking when its dealing damage). get smoldering air for support
demeter:
zeus on attack, aphrodite on special. get splitting bolt and smoldering air(especially splitting bolt)
or you can get ares on attack, and athena on special and dash and get merciful end
hushed saffron
Also maybe I’m stupid but I barely use my cast
plain river
https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide
This website looks familiar but not the same
hushed saffron
Mostly 0 time per run
plain river
Also maybe I’m stupid but I barely use my cast
Boiling blood is the main reason to use it outside of cast based aspects
limber fjord
wait wait what?
plain river
But using your cast on cast based aspects is actually really strong
south sonnet
Also maybe I’m stupid but I barely use my cast
its only for aspects/runs specifically geared towards casts, or you can use it to trigger boiling/abyssal blood
limber fjord
zeus shield bugs with splitting?
south sonnet
yes
south sonnet
when its dealing damage your block doesnt work
hushed saffron
But using your cast on cast based aspects is actually really strong
So I don’t choose any boon or skill or aspect or anything related to cast haha
tight basin
You can still take splitting bolt on Zeus shield
south sonnet
when its dealing damage your block doesnt work
(this costed me a run because beams)
tight basin
Just like
plain river
It’s still worth it to take boons for opening duos and closing cores
tight basin
Be mindful of it
plain river
Since the game will keep trying to give you a cast if you don’t have it
tight basin
Also cast based aspects are some of the strongest aspects in the game
plain river
so you’ll almost always be closing off your own options by holding out
tight basin
Beowulf, Hera, and Achilles are very strong
plain river
and having a cast open a duo for you can be really helpful
hushed saffron
I don’t know why I don’t like to use it. Probably my brain can’t remember too many moves haha
south sonnet
when offered boons, "cores"(the first couple boons that affect attack, dash, special, etc)have a higher chance of spawning than others
limber fjord
cast eris 
south sonnet
boiling blood
hushed saffron
And at the beginning I was not using any call either (now I totally do though, it’s game breaker)
plain river
Even if you aren’t using your cast, you should still get a cast boon
it helps with rng
eager flint
in that it needs breakpoints, being mindful of spacing, etc
hushed saffron
it helps with rng
Right makes sense
limber fjord
just be mindful of what duos you open or close depending on the cast
hushed saffron
I don’t know what are your goals on the game but I just want to max out everything I can lol
eager flint
Finding a use for a cast here and there when it's not "obvious" is very exciting for me tbh. I just feel so smart whenever I think up a way to use it like that lol
limber fjord
i mean i'm grinding blood rn for my weapons
tight basin
cast eris <:gigachad:934652581366595594>
Hunting blades eris kinda cursed
limber fjord
dw its fine
tight basin
Considering you want Artemis special it's kinda like there lmao
eager flint
I don’t know what are your goals on the game but I just want to max out everythi...
Unseen one about to hit you with a steel chair
south sonnet
all dialogue about to make you hit you with a spiked titanium chair
limber fjord
unseen ones is one of the fights of all time
limber fjord
oh i forgot those existed
eager flint
also now that I think about it I'm not sure what dialogue I'm missing on my save except for the rank based ones
plain river
I don’t know what are your goals on the game but I just want to max out everythi...
Have fun collecting 325k+ blood
south sonnet
Have fun collecting 325k+ blood
325k blood
hushed saffron
And the reason why I finally decided to buy hades is that I saw a video on YouTube about the story of the guy who cleared the game with 64 heat. Found it amazing lol
limber fjord
darkness you mean?
eager flint
325k darkness
south sonnet
no no shackle meant 325k blood
eager flint
imagine 325k titan blood
south sonnet
which, using the broker deals, is equivalent to 162500000 darkness
plain river
But fr though you need at least 325k darkness since that’s the amount you need for ranks alone
tight basin
And the reason why I finally decided to buy hades is that I saw a video on YouTu...
It's been beaten twice total now lol
plain river
It's been beaten twice total now lol
Isn’t it thrice?
hushed saffron
It's been beaten twice total now lol
Same person or two?
south sonnet
2 people
limber fjord
2 different people
south sonnet
mysterra and angelic, both on this server
south sonnet
mysterra has done several runs, most of them modded
hushed saffron
First one was angelic right
plain river
I never verified the info though
limber fjord
yes
south sonnet
I heard word of a chinese player
mysterra?
limber fjord
didn't angelic also do the first modded 64?
hushed saffron
The level of stress to endure to complete this omg. Plus the skill I will never ever get close to 🤣
south sonnet
dont worry you can cope with 50
hushed saffron
In 10 years maybe
I really suck at this game
I’ve googled “how many runs to beat hades first time “
So many people did it in 10-15 runs wtf
south sonnet
it took me 23
hushed saffron
Took me 35
south sonnet
wouldve been like 18 if i didnt try to iframe dad
limber fjord
i think i was in the 30-40 range before first clear
hushed saffron
35 I had a few runs of just farming but I guess 30 of try hard
plain river
I’ve googled “how many runs to beat hades first time “
Dw about how long your first clear takes
hushed saffron
Now I have 4 clears
limber fjord
i mean the fun part of this game is that it's not terribly hard to complete all the expected objectives but there's also a ton of mastery
plain river
A lot of successful Hades players took a while
hushed saffron
2 with sword 2 with fists
south sonnet
wouldve been like 18 if i didnt try to iframe dad
i somehow cleared with fists, which i happened to have 2 uses on(including the clear)
hushed saffron
2 heat with talos haha. I go one by one heat now
hushed saffron
2 with fists and 2 with sword knowing that I have less than 10 runs with fists
hushed saffron
Found it easier than sword
plain river
Or smthing
south sonnet
one day i will acquire recognition for jumping form 10 to 32
and doing an absolutely cursed run
plain river
Idk it won’t ever be Matty
crude oriole
And the reason why I finally decided to buy hades is that I saw a video on YouTu...
first to clear wasn't a guy, right?
limber fjord
iirc angelic is transfem?
crude oriole
so, not a guy
south sonnet
i somehow cleared with fists, which i happened to have 2 uses on(including the c...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1133432071499563068/Screenshot_2023-07-25_at_9.04.22_AM.png?ex=65afe5df&is=659d70df&hm=13a5f2423cead6f77abd0ae5a76e0dfc3a486c143635af81448a25c1901cae14& oh gosh its worse than i thought
south sonnet
my first clear
limber fjord
aphro strike 
south sonnet
level 1 olympian favor
quaint condor
Have fun collecting 325k+ blood
Titan blood?!
grizzled cipher
vagrant crane
wat
quaint condor
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1133432071499563068/Sc...
Nah, 6 of 609 health?! ⚰️
viral geode
south sonnet
it should
hushed saffron
Have fun collecting 325k+ blood
325K for what?
(I know you mean darkness, but I guess there is no use?)
Also stupid question but I'm reading the guide, what is a "pom"? I don't play the game in english
potent tree
Pomegranate
hushed saffron
The stuff to +1 a boon?
potent tree
Yes
hushed saffron
Ah ok thanks
When I started the game, I would always go for those pom rooms, but now (still beginner tho), I often skip it, I found it more worthy to go for new boons. What do you think
south sonnet
325K for what?
mirror-30-35k
theme--23.5k
ranks-a lot
sigil-3142
hushed saffron
little fancy titles
Ah ok I'm not there yet I guess
I only use it for the mirror at the moment
plain river
When I started the game, I would always go for those pom rooms, but now (still b...
tbh I'm almost the opposite now
hushed saffron
I'm close to that roll a dice 2K upgrade and then my mirror upgrade is all maxed out with what I play but I will still max the other ones I never play in case I need one day
plain river
unless I'm looking for specific boons, I will likely boost my current boons more
except for when I need UC fodder
hushed saffron
unless I'm looking for specific boons, I will likely boost my current boons more
Hmm... I find poms very good for poison and doom though, but for the rest... I dont know... Im probably wrong though
hushed saffron
Oh and for Poseidon call also. I dont know how you like this call, I find it over broken lol
Zeus one is my other fav one, and Dyonisos as a third choice
plain river
pos call is utterly mid tbh
zeus and dio are way over it
it locks you out of your moveset for a while
so you lose dps for the defense that you could just get from athena
hushed saffron
I stack 4 calls and go braindead on the boss for 9s dealing great damage xd
hushed saffron
so you lose dps for the defense that you could just get from athena
Good point. But I think Poseidon is suitable for beginners like me
south sonnet
pos call is really good for beginners if you get a high rarity on it and rip current
potent tree
Rip Current is just so, so fun
south sonnet
actual damage(cough cough ares call) and iframes
plain river
Hmm... I find poms very good for poison and doom though, but for the rest... I d...
poison does handle poms very well
hushed saffron
poison does handle poms very well
Right
plain river
or
hushed saffron
I've never used any call for like 15 or 20 runs lol...
Now I wonder why I did this xd
plain river
Hangover
south sonnet
since when can you pom satyrs
plain river
tbh if you want damage from your calls, you should take zeus and dionysusa
and just use the short calls
potent tree
The satyrs who found the poms are probably the miniboss satys eh
hushed saffron
tbh if you want damage from your calls, you should take zeus and dionysusa
Ye I take those or Poseidon as a beginner. One of the three. I think it's easier to beat Hades with a call dealing damage when you are not very skilled (that's what I feel at least)
Aphrodite one for instance, found it totally useless. But probably cause I dont know how to play yet
south sonnet
its free damage
hushed saffron
it's just not pos
Well I've seen yesterday the Zeus shield + Zeus call, wtf the damage xd
plain river
aphrodite has niche use as a defensive call but it's never the first choice
it's more for when every other option for you to take off a boon is worse
south sonnet
my previous run got about 2.5k damage per minicall on zeus
all it took was a common double strike with 2 poms and an epic call with 3 poms
plain river
zeus shield isn't necessary for zeus call
zeus call literally fits on everything
every weapon has some core that can use aphrodite properly to set up smouldering air
south sonnet
not athena luci
south sonnet
plain river
don't cite the deep magic to me, witch
hushed saffron
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/845087924717486140/1018858873735610418/...
I've heard Lucifer is fun but I've tried the basic rail one time, I found it absolutely horrible to play xd
plain river
I've heard Lucifer is fun but I've tried the basic rail one time, I found it abs...
don't use that build
thegamer is not a good source
the picture is a meme
every rail is good
just an fyi
every single aspect shines unlike other weapons
hushed saffron
thegamer is not a good source
I've read in youtube comments haha
plain river
yeah idk the quality of youtube comments is also dubious
hushed saffron
Well it's personal experience based I guess, so everyone will have their own opinion
plain river
to an extent? I mean
with Hades
you can have a good personal experience with just about anything
but that doesn't mean said thing is good
hushed saffron
Anyway. Cant play Hades for two days now, my girlfriend has punished me for playing too much haha but on wednesday I will try Demeter fists and Zeus shield 😄
hushed saffron
but that doesn't mean said thing is good
Yes thats what I meant
plain river
I know beyond my personal experience
the personal experience that's been passed down by many speedrunners and high heat runners
hushed saffron
Btw, what is the best hammer for fists? I always pick the 10% dmg and more range I love it
south sonnet
long knuckle is very cool, but its hard to use optimally
plain river
long knuckle is an excellent hammer, especially at higher heat
hushed saffron
long knuckle is very cool, but its hard to use optimally
A lot of mobs dont move when you spam attack max range xd
plain river
and aside from that they aren't all that great. Kinetic Launcher, Explosive Upper and High Kick all work just fine
the 3 special ones work especially well on dem
south sonnet
rush kick????
hushed saffron
the 3 special ones work especially well on dem
Does 1 hit count for 3?
hushed saffron
I mean you get the hammer which punches in 3 directions right?
Is it 3 stacks or just 1 for Demeter
plain river
there is no triple hammer for fists
hushed saffron
Ah
plain river
I was talking about (Kinetic Launcher, Explosive Upper, and Rush Kick) as a group of 3
tight basin
long knuckle is very cool, but its hard to use optimally
wdym "hard to use optimally" just punch them with farther range lmao
there's nothing else to it really
wheat needle
Should I use the stygian soul or the other one for hunting blade?
plain river
Should I use the stygian soul or the other one for hunting blade?
stygian soul is like the chaos highroll version of hunting blades
it works perfectly fine with infernal
wheat needle
stygian soul is like the chaos highroll version of hunting blades
Chaos highroll version?
wheat needle
ohok
plain river
whereas
infernal just works for hunting blades
they pop out around 3 seconds anyways
wheat needle
they pop out around 3 seconds anyways
Is beam or hunting blade better for Achilles?
plain river
Is beam or hunting blade better for Achilles?
so
this isn't specifically for achilles
every time you have to ask "meme beams or hunting blades"
remember that meme beams are called that for a reason
wheat needle
every time you have to ask "meme beams or hunting blades"
But why is it a meme? I think it's decent
plain river
tbh
crystal clarity is the one thing that keeps it usable
the tracking is slow, the damage is and you're losing boiling blood
wheat needle
the tracking is slow, the damage is <:bouldy:523329116934635534> and you're los...
Boiling blood in dad fight? I have been wondering what is that