#h1-builds-and-combat | Supergiant Games | Page 88

analog mauve Nov 9, 2023, 4:13 AM

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suskaygeagreegebusiness

vagrant crane Nov 9, 2023, 4:13 AM

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unless they are in a nice group directly in a corner

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for speed

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:13 AM

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analog mauve <:suskaygeagreegebusiness:1164151792402174073>

It's also my only 32 lol

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did it for the statue

south sonnet Nov 9, 2023, 4:14 AM

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im missing sword and spear, last spear run died at dad with garbage rng

analog mauve Nov 9, 2023, 4:14 AM

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mystic jay It's also my only 32 lol

Based

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:18 AM

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what would you say is top 5 asoects

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:18 AM

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analog mauve Based

shadethumbsup

vagrant crane Nov 9, 2023, 4:19 AM

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mystic jay what would you say is top 5 asoects

u cant rlly make a consistent list

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hera is top 2 speed but sucks for heat

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:19 AM

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which conditions hold it back for heat?

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 4:19 AM

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Hera's whole gimmick is being able to one shot stuff

vagrant crane Nov 9, 2023, 4:20 AM

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it sucks when u cant instakill stuff

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:20 AM

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oh yeah

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 4:20 AM

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If you can't do that then you lose a lot of time and die to td

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:20 AM

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2 damage control and 2 CP would suck

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 4:20 AM

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Well you just don't take dc

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Cp1 is only taken because of hell mode probably

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It's more like

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You get less scaling

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And bp2 is pain

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:22 AM

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so beowulf is still good because the casts don't lodge?

south sonnet Nov 9, 2023, 4:22 AM

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and also the massive damage

frozen latch Nov 9, 2023, 4:22 AM

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S tier is for shield

south sonnet Nov 9, 2023, 4:23 AM

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c tier is for chaos shield

frozen latch Nov 9, 2023, 4:23 AM

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Still have 62 heat record

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:23 AM

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technically they're all chaos shield

frozen latch Nov 9, 2023, 4:23 AM

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Angel magic

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 4:26 AM

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mystic jay so beowulf is still good because the casts don't lodge?

More or less yeah

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Also more aoe

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And is a shield so it's automatically better at heat

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:31 AM

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tight basin More or less yeah

So is Zag bow generally a better option

frozen latch Nov 9, 2023, 4:32 AM

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For any heat speed: hera > rama > zag bow > chiron

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For just heat: rama > zag bow > chiron > hera

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Actually, chiron is the same as hera if you go for bad zag bow

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:33 AM

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so hera just gets worse as you go higher heat? @frozen latch

frozen latch Nov 9, 2023, 4:33 AM

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Much worse

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Rama is the only thing that can consistently go fast anyheat

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But it’s really hard to go fast with it

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:44 AM

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@frozen latch What's bad zag bow

frozen latch Nov 9, 2023, 4:45 AM

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Just chiron without special or hera without focusing on the cast

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:45 AM

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gotcha

fleet glacier Nov 9, 2023, 4:45 AM

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why would zag bow be bad its da superior crit aspect compared to nemesis

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 4:46 AM

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is it better than nemesis just by virtue of being a bow?

fleet glacier Nov 9, 2023, 4:46 AM

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mystic jay is it better than nemesis just by virtue of being a bow?

yes? id say so?

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cuz sword is overall unsafe and activating the effect can inconvenient at times

vagrant crane Nov 9, 2023, 4:52 AM

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reading comprehension down 2day

south sonnet Nov 9, 2023, 4:53 AM

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mystic jay so hera just gets worse as you go higher heat? <@308944634673889281>

huh my first 32 bow was hera bouldy

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 4:54 AM

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Hera works fine for 32

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It does past 40 more or less

mystic jay Nov 9, 2023, 5:29 PM

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Why is talos so bad

vagrant crane Nov 9, 2023, 5:32 PM

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special sux

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 5:45 PM

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mystic jay Why is talos so bad

fiery presence is kinda useless on talos since the magnetic thingy deals damage so you can't one shot tart stuff, so that kinda automatically puts it below zag and dem fists lmao
also 50% cast damage is nice but you have to apply the debuff, which is wonky to do in the first place

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and is single target so it's kinda tedious

eager flint Nov 9, 2023, 6:32 PM

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Talos fiery presence with DC1 🧠

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Also imo Talos is better as a strike weapon with heavy knuckle or the additional damage hammer

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I don't remember the name

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Concentrated knuckle I guess ?

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Since the equivalent for bow is concentrated volley

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 6:38 PM

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i mean that does give it good damage numbers but in practice it's kinda wonky

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it's still the thing of single target debuff

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also dash strikes reset the conc knuckle lmao

proper furnace Nov 9, 2023, 6:54 PM

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Not even that

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The combo resets when it finishes too iirc

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So 5 punchs and done

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 7:01 PM

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oh bruh

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thats horrid lmao

vagrant crane Nov 9, 2023, 7:14 PM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1172252773346197504/image.png?ex=655fa478&is=654d2f78&hm=42ac742026fb4bb02e33182587c6b2775efa055a41047979c53eed325c0ec8d9&

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today we learn the reasons some builds shouldn't be tried

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poor haelian

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1172252870180077609/image.png?ex=655fa48f&is=654d2f8f&hm=d85c84984df547893b84e0ca945dec7e963c8c34a43de2c8aa0d95a5ac7d5459&

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looks fun

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 7:49 PM

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Hestia at home

eager flint Nov 9, 2023, 7:57 PM

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Meh, still acceptable damage with talos

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it's, like, 10+15+20+25+30 = 100 base in however long the combo is

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but it's pretty fast

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I'm not saying Talos srike is anything close to good, but it's better than cast imo

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ofc, you should just go ME

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 7:59 PM

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Yeah I was gonna say

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Zap or ME will have more mileage

eager flint Nov 9, 2023, 8:00 PM

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oh forgot about zap. That too yeah

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But if you want to use the "upside" of the aspect, strike is best

proper furnace Nov 9, 2023, 8:02 PM

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If you wanna do the aspect wouldn't heavy knuckle work better

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 8:06 PM

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Yeah lmao

atomic forge Nov 9, 2023, 10:39 PM

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is it just me or is merciful end kinda eh
like i remember everyone telling me its one of the most broken builds and then i tried it out on a buncha different weapons and it was meh

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maybe im just playing it wrong? idk

south sonnet Nov 9, 2023, 10:51 PM

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atomic forge is it just me or is merciful end kinda eh like i remember everyone telling me it...

depends on the weapon

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every single build in the game is aspect or hammer reliant

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for ME(dashless), you can use it on:
fists
sword
shield(hard to do without pulv blow if youre using zeus)

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the main build for ME is to actually just use dash strikes with curse of agony(attack doom) and divine dash, and just never special

tight basin Nov 9, 2023, 11:05 PM

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atomic forge maybe im just playing it wrong? idk

you need non-common ares attack, athena dash, and impending doom for it to be good at all

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on a melee aspect

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it'll suck on bows and rails

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it'll also suck on non-zeus shields for the most part

covert grove Nov 10, 2023, 12:11 AM

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Yeah I'm confused why people keep mixing up the results of just gathering a bunch of win screens with what I personally think lol. Guess they just don't like the result.

mystic jay Nov 10, 2023, 1:07 AM

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covert grove Yeah I'm confused why people keep mixing up the results of just gathering a bunc...

Was your aspects tier list based mainly on meta or fun to use?

vagrant crane Nov 10, 2023, 1:09 AM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1172342199892070440/image.png?ex=655ff7c1&is=654d82c1&hm=7f1b39f3d66b17f246ff90b282d459699eda7e67bc3791494676f8f01cb3efb2&

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it's official

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hermes is fake

south sonnet Nov 10, 2023, 1:13 AM

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i dont get it bouldy

covert grove Nov 10, 2023, 1:18 AM

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mystic jay Was your aspects tier list based mainly on meta or fun to use?

I say it in the video, a mix of fun, strong and easy to use.

mystic jay Nov 10, 2023, 1:18 AM

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covert grove I say it in the video, a mix of fun, strong and easy to use.

gotcha, love your vids btw

vagrant crane Nov 10, 2023, 1:19 AM

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why do i always play so bad in my best times

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i cant even watch this video through lol

plucky oasis Nov 10, 2023, 4:07 AM

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ima do a meme lucifer build someday (curse of pain + dire misfortune + eternal chamber)

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likely tmrw

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cuz its 11pm

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most attack boons with lucifer gun can give you crazy stuff

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:09 AM

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rama is much better at doom stacking

plucky oasis Nov 10, 2023, 4:09 AM

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i dont have rama yet - thats the one im missing rn

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dont tell me abt it i wanna see it when i get it

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for now lucifer doom stacking will be silly enough

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:10 AM

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fun fact: damue cleared 60 heat with doom stacking rama even though he cheated it

plucky oasis Nov 10, 2023, 4:10 AM

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damnn

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:11 AM

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i think he cheated the blue gold laurel ratio, pumped up nectar ratio and forced certain gods

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so yeah, doom stacking rama theoretically can do 60 heat

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if rngeus is on your side

analog mauve Nov 10, 2023, 4:13 AM

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Just use rngesus keepsake

plucky oasis Nov 10, 2023, 4:13 AM

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@tight basin #h1-victory-boasting message how so

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:14 AM

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that's just lightning strike with modifier

tight basin Nov 10, 2023, 4:14 AM

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yeah lmao

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:14 AM

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I think it worse than lightning strike since lightning bound

tight basin Nov 10, 2023, 4:14 AM

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yeah i was just gonna say that

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:15 AM

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maybe razor shoals compensate some damage but it's meme nonetheless

tight basin Nov 10, 2023, 4:15 AM

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the thunder radius isn't bad tbf, esp if you get high voltage, but also your early game is gonna suck ass since you dont have sea storm
and also you have to pick up high voltage lmao

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shoals is basically budget lightning strike at that point

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:16 AM

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can normal bolt hit multple enemies?

tight basin Nov 10, 2023, 4:16 AM

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i would think so

late wasp Nov 10, 2023, 4:01 PM

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I'm trying to get the hidden aspect prophecies complete. What's a good build with Rama aspect

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:08 PM

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Aphro/arty attack

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Hunter dash

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Any flat damage special

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And chaos lunge or attack

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Or just do zeus special and play it like a rail

dapper harness Nov 10, 2023, 4:36 PM

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~~and don't forget it's not shield while charging the attk~~

mystic jay Nov 10, 2023, 4:37 PM

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good applications of deadly reversal?

proper furnace Nov 10, 2023, 4:40 PM

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Extra support for merciful end ig

frozen latch Nov 10, 2023, 4:42 PM

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True gamer go for divine strike baseball arthur for the true deadly reversal

analog mauve Nov 10, 2023, 4:58 PM

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Ok bet

south sonnet Nov 10, 2023, 9:29 PM

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stygian or infernal on hunting blades

plucky oasis Nov 10, 2023, 9:36 PM

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south sonnet stygian or infernal on hunting blades

what are hunting blades

uneven basalt Nov 10, 2023, 9:37 PM

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Ares cast that seeks enemies

plucky oasis Nov 10, 2023, 9:37 PM

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ohhhh

vital sedge Nov 10, 2023, 9:37 PM

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Infernal is the safe choice, stygian is better if you can get +casts.

uneven basalt Nov 10, 2023, 9:37 PM

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It’s a duo boon between arty and ares

plucky oasis Nov 10, 2023, 9:37 PM

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i got it before but just didn’t recall it 👍 thanks

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i would pick infernal ig but i never actually did a stygian soul run

proper furnace Nov 10, 2023, 9:38 PM

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with blades just go infernal

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is a 1 second difference (3 sec regen vs blades lasting 4 secs)

vagrant crane Nov 10, 2023, 9:41 PM

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south sonnet stygian or infernal on hunting blades

infernal

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:36 AM

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for non casting builds do you generally run infernal or stygian?

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:37 AM

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depends on the build

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for example, beo with flood flare u run infernal

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:38 AM

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But beo would be casting right

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:38 AM

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if it's trippy flare, stygian

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oh wait

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I read it as casting

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:38 AM

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like if i'm running nemesis or zag bow

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:38 AM

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uhh still depends on build

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:38 AM

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mystic jay like if i'm running nemesis or zag bow

oh stygian

tight basin Nov 11, 2023, 2:39 AM

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It's personal preference

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Infernal if you want rod, stygian for better Hermes odds

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:39 AM

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I see

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:39 AM

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stygian can also be easy to manage

analog mauve Nov 11, 2023, 2:39 AM

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U always have better things to get from Zeus and Artemis anyway

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:39 AM

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but yea try them both

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:40 AM

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I usually run Stygian so I can apply boiling blood and not have to think about it

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:40 AM

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u can apply boiling with infernal too

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:41 AM

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Yeah, but then I have to eventually go pick up my casts

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:41 AM

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yea that's why I find stygian easy to manage

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:41 AM

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do you know the exact time it takes for the stones to return to you?

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because i think they're lodged for 10 seconds

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:42 AM

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they get lodged for 15sec I think?

tight basin Nov 11, 2023, 2:42 AM

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I was gonna say 15 yeah

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:42 AM

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oh yeah lodged for fifteen

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Is it the same time if they're on the ground?

tight basin Nov 11, 2023, 2:43 AM

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Probably

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 2:43 AM

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not sure but it feels way more than 15

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 2:43 AM

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yeah it feels forever

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the worst part about infernal is sometimes I chuck the stones way out into the magma in asphodel

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and sometimes they land in places where I cn't pick them up in the Hades fight

tight basin Nov 11, 2023, 2:45 AM

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I'd simply not do that personally

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 7:42 AM

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So do you always go Stygian with Trippy Shot on Hera/Beowulf?

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 7:54 AM

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Can you get Merciful End even if you inadvertently already have Unshakeable Mettle or is it off the table?

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 7:56 AM

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tired niche Can you get Merciful End even if you inadvertently already have Unshakeable Mett...

I think you can get any duo boon as long as you have the requirements. Certain ones don't stack because their effects would overlap

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 7:56 AM

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I see.

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 7:57 AM

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But just don't get unshakeable mettle, it sucks lol

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 7:59 AM

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Yess, I got Mericful End!

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The other offers were so tempting too... I'd lost a Death Defiance in Elysium and I still don't have Athena's dash.

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:00 AM

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you should get the dash ASAP or Merciful End won't be too useful

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:01 AM

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OMG, Patroclus on my next room omg

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:01 AM

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hopefully Athena next

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:01 AM

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Nope, Coin and Daedalus.

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Nooo

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:02 AM

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what weapon are you running

vagrant crane Nov 11, 2023, 8:02 AM

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what aspect

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:02 AM

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Nemesis

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:03 AM

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sick ME weapon

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 8:03 AM

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mystic jay So do you always go Stygian with Trippy Shot on Hera/Beowulf?

yea

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:04 AM

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dapper harness yea

How many extra stones would I need to make it as good as infernal with 3

vagrant crane Nov 11, 2023, 8:04 AM

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like 1

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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yea

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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YESS, Athena!!! Finally

vagrant crane Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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trippy is super rng

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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ok that's good

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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ideally 2 but even 1 is enough

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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DIVINE STRIKE WITH HERIOC IAODFKOAKDO

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no dash tho

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Finally, DASH

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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trippy does alot of dmg especially on beo

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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Likely won't make it out of Elysium though

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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dapper harness trippy does alot of dmg especially on beo

I see

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:05 AM

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Remind me again why I set Extreme Measures to 3 ticks 😭

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Do I kill Theseus or Asterius first?

vagrant crane Nov 11, 2023, 8:06 AM

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tired niche Do I kill Theseus or Asterius first?

bull

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 8:06 AM

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Asterius

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:06 AM

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k

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:06 AM

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tired niche Do I kill Theseus or Asterius first?

Asterius

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:06 AM

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i do that anyways

dapper harness Nov 11, 2023, 8:06 AM

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Theseus doesn't do much on em3

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:06 AM

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You don't want to deal with Theseus' AOE while Asterius is running around

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:09 AM

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I did it :o

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 8:09 AM

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ME supremacy

tired niche Nov 11, 2023, 8:09 AM

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what does ME mean

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oh merciful end

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im such an idiot

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i dont have much faith im going to win this though, i have only 1 death defiance remaining and i dont have any god's call

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OH WAIT

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omg

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[REDACTED] let me go

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o it the credits

plucky oasis Nov 11, 2023, 7:01 PM

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mystic jay ME supremacy

what is merciful end

ocean cliff Nov 11, 2023, 7:02 PM

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plucky oasis what is merciful end

duo boon from athena/ares

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using athena attacks causes ares' doom to proc instantly

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its used in (former) fresh save wr btw

plucky oasis Nov 11, 2023, 7:02 PM

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ooo

proper furnace Nov 11, 2023, 7:04 PM

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pretty sure is still the build for wr dusa

ocean cliff Nov 11, 2023, 7:04 PM

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oh right

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i saw some older one use it

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checked rn, current wr is using it as well

vagrant crane Nov 11, 2023, 7:05 PM

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yeah there’s no other build in ff that does damage

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i mean ME doesn’t really do damage either

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but way more than the others

tight basin Nov 11, 2023, 7:06 PM

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Compared to what you can get in fresh file there's not much else you can do lmao

vagrant crane Nov 11, 2023, 7:06 PM

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but like the best ff ME build ever would be something you’d complain about in anyheat

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in terms of damage number

ocean cliff Nov 11, 2023, 7:07 PM

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fair

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since in anyheat you get beo or clockets

vagrant crane Nov 11, 2023, 7:12 PM

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even for other ME builds

mystic jay Nov 11, 2023, 7:15 PM

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An automatic win

spare flare Nov 12, 2023, 7:17 AM

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Geez. When trying to push heat, my build luck is horrible. When my Darker Thirst cycles around to the gun after recently clearing 32 heat and I decide on a leisurely stroll with 0 heat, I get all sorts of broken stuff that makes the whole escape so easy that I could do it blindfolded.

tight basin Nov 12, 2023, 7:19 AM

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It do be like that lmao

spare flare Nov 12, 2023, 7:24 AM

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I had two heroic boons in Tartarus. Was just nuts.

spare flare Nov 12, 2023, 8:45 AM

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Then, I go sword, do a simple run at about 16 heat, things are going fine, and Hades just straight-up ignores my i-frames for five hits in a row. Cool.

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This game, sometimes . . .

vagrant crane Nov 12, 2023, 8:48 AM

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spare flare Then, I go sword, do a simple run at about 16 heat, things are going fine, and H...

were we perhaps dash striking

spare flare Nov 12, 2023, 8:50 AM

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Nope, not in these cases.

vagrant crane Nov 12, 2023, 8:50 AM

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thanthink

spare flare Nov 12, 2023, 8:50 AM

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I mean, that was my mode of attack, but I was just dashing, no strike involved, when these hits landed.

tired niche Nov 12, 2023, 11:24 AM

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Does Dire Misfortune work on Merciful End?

vital sedge Nov 12, 2023, 12:33 PM

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Yes

dapper harness Nov 12, 2023, 1:05 PM

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it'll stack doom but it's not very effective since you wanna be be proccing ME as fast as possible

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so Impending doom is way better

uneven basalt Nov 12, 2023, 1:14 PM

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Yes but if you use fists, you can get in 3 punches before the dash resets no?

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But I guess the moment you get greatest reflex impending will be better

south sonnet Nov 12, 2023, 7:37 PM

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pride or legacy on dio beo

south sonnet Nov 12, 2023, 7:53 PM

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also, should i go mirage with dio beo
i remember someone saying it breaks mirage

tight basin Nov 12, 2023, 8:03 PM

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ice wine breaks mirage, not trippy flare poms

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prob still do legacy since mirage is a lot harder

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since you need 3 gods

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if you dont care about mirage then pride for epic flare start is good

spare flare Nov 12, 2023, 9:09 PM

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I didn't know that Ice Wine breaks Mirage Shot. Why's that?

tight basin Nov 12, 2023, 9:22 PM

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It's specific to Beowulf afaik

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As to why well

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Beowulf has a lot of bugs on it

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Half the bug list that exists for this game is like Beowulf

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It's also not up to date I think

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 5:21 AM

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Wait Ice wine breaks mirage shot?

tight basin Nov 13, 2023, 5:21 AM

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apparently on beo yeah

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there was a reddit post

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 5:21 AM

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I see

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That explains my last beo run

tight basin Nov 13, 2023, 5:22 AM

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https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/s/ucvc0QqVgX

From the HadesTheGame community on Reddit: Hidden Aspect of Shield,...

Explore this post and more from the HadesTheGame community

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i didn't check the math but i did follow it and it did seem right lmao

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granted ice wine delay on beo is kinda ass

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another reason to not pick it lmao

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 5:26 AM

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Yeah

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It’s pretty bad

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What is it good on?

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Like for all of the cast builds there are all better choices

vagrant crane Nov 13, 2023, 5:31 AM

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hallow valley What is it good on?

i mean

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it's very good

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so long as you dont have it on beo or hera

tight basin Nov 13, 2023, 5:37 AM

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yeah lmao ice wine is good on everything except beo and hera

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shines more on achilles and technically pos sword

#

although like you are right there are better choices but it's still very strong

#

hunting blades on achilles or lightning phalanx on achilles and pos are better

#

but ice wine is still very solid

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 5:38 AM

#

Yeah I just don’t like the slow damage on ice wine personally

tight basin Nov 13, 2023, 5:38 AM

#

considering achilles speedruns start tidal dash, you get a lot of build paths with all different gods

#

so 3 duo openings are pretty nice

tight basin Nov 13, 2023, 5:38 AM

#

hallow valley Yeah I just don’t like the slow damage on ice wine personally

ice wine is like

#

instant damage

#

travels faster and does instant damage

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 5:39 AM

#

Like the explosion I mean

#

Does the initial hit do more or the explosion?

tight basin Nov 13, 2023, 5:40 AM

#

Wdym

#

The area it hits all does the same damage

#

It's the same as normal trippy shot

#

It's just a different travel time basically

frozen latch Nov 13, 2023, 5:44 AM

#

Remind me of k33pout pos run

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/1164225838921822409/ice_wine_things.mp4?ex=655e204e&is=654bab4e&hm=78f35c5a36f85d7df57b96ed1a61b5340821d1c0d4cd0e0433cd61089fc6e698&

▶ Play video

tight basin Nov 13, 2023, 5:46 AM

#

ice wine moment

#

https://youtu.be/7AZNQuIggXQ?t=696

YouTube

Bananas

7:55 Modded AnyHeat Achilles

Slightly less Stupid Stick

▶ Play video

#

timestamped if you want to compare normal trippy shot vs ice wine

#

butterfly ball room with trippy shot, next room with ice wine

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 12:02 PM

#

tight basin It's the same as normal trippy shot

Specifically for beo isn’t there an explosion afterwards?

proper furnace Nov 13, 2023, 12:16 PM

#

On beo/hera ice wine is slower yeah

wind glen Nov 13, 2023, 2:25 PM

#

what would be the best hammer for dem fists?

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 2:26 PM

#

proper furnace On beo/hera ice wine is slower yeah

Okay thanks explains it

proper furnace Nov 13, 2023, 2:34 PM

#

wind glen what would be the best hammer for dem fists?

Breaching cross is top

hallow valley Nov 13, 2023, 2:34 PM

#

I’ve only use ice wine on beo

uneven basalt Nov 13, 2023, 2:34 PM

#

Long knuckles it was I think? It’s also useful

proper furnace Nov 13, 2023, 2:36 PM

#

Yeah more for heat but is good

#

There's also explosive upper

#

And kinetic launcher that has some application for ME before dash

waxen dock Nov 13, 2023, 3:04 PM

#

Is there a trick to getting lots of Chaos gates?

lucid oar Nov 13, 2023, 3:06 PM

#

apart from just getting lucky, check every charon well you see for ixions, you can use fated persuasion to reroll them

#

using olympians favour will give you more keys for this

#

also dont take story rooms or midshops because they cant appear in those

waxen dock Nov 13, 2023, 3:08 PM

#

Yeah nothing I didn't know :/ I was just thinking about it

#

A big part of doing my runs these days is "manipulating" the randomness. But Chaos seems really out of control

proper furnace Nov 13, 2023, 3:09 PM

#

Fits the name at least

waxen dock Nov 13, 2023, 3:10 PM

#

Exactly what I thought while writing that x)

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 12:19 PM

#

hi

#

any fun builds for me to try

#

I have most aspects and all hidden aspects

#

all keepsakes

#

maxed red mirror except for foresight, famfav, and persuasion

#

I also have stygian soul maxxed

dapper harness Nov 14, 2023, 12:22 PM

#

meme beam, super soaker, lighting phalanx, hunting blades, trippy beo(only fun if you get extra casts)

#

u could also watch haelian for some weird ideas

#

dodge build, spin only spear, pos special on charon

#

also the one absurd build he had with cold embrace

proper furnace Nov 14, 2023, 12:24 PM

#

dapper harness dodge build, spin only spear, pos special on charon

Something something if I had a coin for every chiron misspell

dapper harness Nov 14, 2023, 12:25 PM

#

oh lol

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 12:26 PM

#

dapper harness meme beam, super soaker, lighting phalanx, hunting blades, trippy beo(only fun i...

super soaker sounds fun

#

so lucifer with poseidon

#

nah i'll go meme beam

#

I need to try this

#

so stygian soul and get casts right?

dapper harness Nov 14, 2023, 12:27 PM

#

pretty much

#

glacial glare is also pretty imp

analog mauve Nov 14, 2023, 12:34 PM

#

me who spent 3 hours striaght today and not getting the duo across 30+ boon menus

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 1:39 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/867045762843934731/1173980325190307880/image.png?ex=6565ed61&is=65537861&hm=86ee479a7b4807ecc358239643a8ba380322f3e3c5ec329bba96eab5593aa8e4&

#

the worst meme beam build ever made

#

in my defense, literally 0 chaos gates spawned, I know their sound and there just isn't any

#

also hermes screwed me over with a common

#

and the game just had to make fun of me by saying: ooh perfect clear

#

seriously screw this game

proper furnace Nov 14, 2023, 1:42 PM

#

...does hunter dash even open the duo

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 1:44 PM

#

proper furnace ...does hunter dash even open the duo

no.

#

I argh...

#

I thought I could roll something better

#

later on

proper furnace Nov 14, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

At least you were playing zeus shield

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

but never saw arte again

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

proper furnace At least you were playing zeus shield

look, I won because my actual build is carrying the meme

proper furnace Nov 14, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

Normally beams is used with achilles for the +150% cast dmg

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

which is zeus on zeus

#

it is a good build

proper furnace Nov 14, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

But how bad this went uhhh bouldy

turbid needle Nov 14, 2023, 1:45 PM

#

i got decent jolted

#

I got thunder flourish

#

and that's literally the entire build

#

but, the rng

#

I mean, I'm pretty sure I can set up an anti-synergy and still win

#

jolted + thunder flourish + zeus shield = win

#

but I wanted to meme it

#

and that uhh, took a toll on the time

#

ffs I even tried to roll for light of ixion

#

that never turned up

atomic forge Nov 14, 2023, 5:43 PM

#

people who can sub10 with the rail have all my respect idek how they do that

vagrant crane Nov 14, 2023, 5:44 PM

#

atomic forge people who can sub10 with the rail have all my respect idek how they do that

its not too bad

#

just watch the guide

south sonnet Nov 15, 2023, 12:00 AM

#

dapper harness meme beam, super soaker, lighting phalanx, hunting blades, trippy beo(only fun i...

can confirm that dio beo is only possible with extra casts, i died to heroes on td2 because of time and took 10 minutes per shade

#

i have epic lightning strike and triple bomb on luci, what should i do
this is all in tart

lucid oar Nov 15, 2023, 12:27 AM

#

Poseidon or Artemis keepsake for tidal dash or deadly flourish

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 3:38 AM

#

beowulf and hera exist

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 3:54 AM

#

depends tbh

#

but fair

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 3:54 AM

#

beo is the easiest aspect to sub anything with

#

i did not play eris at all until a decent time after my first sub6

analog mauve Nov 15, 2023, 5:14 AM

#

Agree 👍 ✋

atomic forge Nov 15, 2023, 10:48 AM

#

??? rail is always the slowest weapon for me. beo, hera, and all the swords except arthur are always quicker. maybe im just playing bad lol

spare flare Nov 15, 2023, 11:02 AM

#

If rail is the slowest for you, yes, you are absolutely not doing it right.

atomic forge Nov 15, 2023, 2:03 PM

#

real but even then im slow

atomic forge Nov 15, 2023, 3:08 PM

#

uhh for zeus attack i usually go luci or eris

dapper harness Nov 15, 2023, 3:17 PM

#

for Eris it's usually Zeus attk, tidal dash, arti spec

#

then get other Zeus boons static discharge, double strike, the lego

#

from pos razor shoals and breaking wave

#

best hammer combo is rocket bomb + cluster bomb

uneven basalt Nov 15, 2023, 3:19 PM

#

So it’s basically like Zeus^2 on attack with a special that deals a hell ton of special?

dapper harness Nov 15, 2023, 3:19 PM

#

yea

#

since Eris buffs all dmg

#

flat dmg soup builds work great

uneven basalt Nov 15, 2023, 3:20 PM

#

I See, I should give it a try

#

Do I start with pos, Zeus or arty keepsake?

dapper harness Nov 15, 2023, 3:22 PM

#

zeus

#

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13lSPIUsiJGr5vApeon6ayX9N4-UlvGHWrCGdYAxhvHM/edit

Google Docs

Wmic's Eris Guide

A guide on how to speedrun Hades with the Aspect of Eris

#

great guide

uneven basalt Nov 15, 2023, 3:23 PM

#

Thank you

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 4:45 PM

#

You could start tdash if you want

#

It's way more rng dependent but it's pretty strong considering you want to pom tdash a lot

#

And you get good early poms

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 4:46 PM

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779451865399368/1164984092056633385/image.png?ex=6560e27b&is=654e6d7b&hm=61fce3de1e839be2bdcb1a5ed7789b5a76367ecddc06e53b2f254b5cafc7ab54&=&width=1245&height=701

#

the result of splash start gaming

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 4:46 PM

#

Based

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:43 PM

#

Need a sanity check. On Beowulf, does Mirage Shot affect Thunder Flare at all?

#

I am seeing two numbers, but I also have Double Strike...

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:44 PM

#

narrow pike Need a sanity check. On Beowulf, does Mirage Shot affect Thunder Flare at all?

thunder flare is completely screwed up

#

it is not affected by cast additive

#

the cast has a damage of 0

#

i would not be surprised if it wasnt affected by mirage

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:44 PM

#

I've noticed that in the boon list but didn't realize this was affecting damage

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:46 PM

#

narrow pike Need a sanity check. On Beowulf, does Mirage Shot affect Thunder Flare at all?

yeah i just checked

#

mirage doesnt work on thunder

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:48 PM

#

Cast boon: 175 damage
Global damage: +96%
Shoot final boss
First number seems to be 227

#

Hmm actually, I failed to apply +50% from Rush Delivery, so it was only +46%

#

Still doesn't check out

#

Lemme slow the game down harder

#

Second try, cast crits for 684, divide by 3, get 228. It's behaving as if it only has +30% damage, which matches my global damage buff from Olympian Favor (I have one extra god)

#

Sometimes I see extra cast damage instances, which is probably from Double Strike. They're not consistent so it's not Mirage Shot

#

RIP Thunder Flare 🤦‍♀️

#

How come they never fixed this 🤦‍♀️

proper furnace Nov 15, 2023, 8:53 PM

#

Players were too busy using charged flight to notice the wacky beo things

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:53 PM

#

beo was one of the last aspects to be added

#

and thunder flare is a very suboptimal beo choice

#

lol

#

and people were also playing it all weird

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1174452428318441652/image.png?ex=6567a50f&is=6555300f&hm=6553c5c123bfda319ad0acfc660ee3f629b1a059466d8bee63875bccb8886ef4& poggies

#

the 2nd least important run in my pending list has been verified

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:55 PM

#

When dashing for Rush Delivery (+50%), I'm seeing 350 from the cast, which indicates +100% global, which makes no sense because I only have +96%

#

The numbers are all weird

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:55 PM

#

did you take crop at any point

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:55 PM

#

So, I don't think it's unaffected by global damage bonuses, but the numbers don't exactly check out

#

No Demeter here

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:56 PM

#

it takes global but not cast additive

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:56 PM

#

Eh? Poms or what?

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:56 PM

#

braid

#

chaos shot

#

stuff like that

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:56 PM

#

Right. Lemme double check that

#

Hmm well, I'm in a fight... anyway I think my only +cast% is +16% from Urge to Kill

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:57 PM

#

do you have shadow presence

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:57 PM

#

I have +30% global from Olympian Favor and +50% from Rush Delivery, those are my only globals

#

So the number when stationary does check out

#

The number when dashing does not

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:57 PM

#

do u have shadow

#

thunder flare can backstab

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:58 PM

#

Nope, have Fiery Presense

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 8:58 PM

#

might just be rng damage

#

thats usually caused by crop

#

but thunder flare is buggy enough that id believe it

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 8:58 PM

#

Hmm... what's that about Crop? What does it break and how?

#

Also, is there some kinda online resource with a reference of all these bugs?

#

This really needs to be on the wiki...

#

The extra +20% that brought my global to +100% could have come from Ferocious Guard, but this would mean it wasn't multiplied by Hyper Sprint, which is yet another bug

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:17 PM

#

narrow pike Hmm... what's that about Crop? What does it break and how?

nobody knows

#

someone noticed that it made hera damage random

#

nobody knows why or how

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:17 PM

#

narrow pike Also, is there some kinda online resource with a reference of all these bugs?

the minds of the people in speedcord

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:21 PM

#

There's a bug sheet somewhere

#

I think the only thing it's missing is like the rare crop bugs

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:21 PM

#

its missing more stuff

#

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12CDUZVhVIqKtDbQYPS1-4nZEm4pVQm4QG8BxHkquWDQ/edit

Google Docs

Hades Bugs

Boons: Boon Bug Example Trippy Flare (Beowulf Only) Pom scaling is double what the boon itself says To calculate the actual amount of damage, do: ( (Displayed damage) - 50/60/70/80 (c/r/e/h) )*2 Common lvl 1 trippy flare does 100 damage. Common lvl 2 trippy flare does 220 damage although...

#

it just has a few of them

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:22 PM

#

What's it missing

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:22 PM

#

thunder flare for instance

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

Oh it doesn't have the main thunder flare one lmao

#

I thought it had both

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

~~Beowulf Mirage Shot too~~

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

Mirage is on there

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

doesnt note stuff like rending claws bug

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

~~Lack of dodge iframes when flares are popping~~

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

vagrant crane doesnt note stuff like rending claws bug

What bug is that?

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

fiery bug

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

Also I swear the iframe one is there lmao

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:25 PM

#

tight basin What bug is that?

when rending claws doesnt give +25% more

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:25 PM

#

narrow pike ~~Lack of dodge iframes when flares are popping~~

Yeah it's in there

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:25 PM

#

vagrant crane when rending claws doesnt give +25% more

Bruh cringe

narrow pike Nov 15, 2023, 9:25 PM

#

I managed to miss a huge part of the doc somehow

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:25 PM

#

this game has a lot of bugs

#

and the list has like 15 of them

#

a lot of bugs are just really small

#

or specific

#

or new

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:25 PM

#

Most of them you kinda like don't notice tho

vagrant crane Nov 15, 2023, 9:25 PM

#

and this doc is ancient

tight basin Nov 15, 2023, 9:26 PM

#

Tiny flare is probably the most obvious one I think

#

Beo iframe bug could be boiled down to skill issue if you don't look at vods lol

narrow pike Nov 16, 2023, 6:02 PM

#

Is Jolted affected by Double Strike?

lucid oar Nov 16, 2023, 6:06 PM

#

yes

south sonnet Nov 16, 2023, 10:52 PM

#

beam or hunting blades on achilles(i will go legacy because my past 2 hunting blades runs have given me nothing)

vital sedge Nov 16, 2023, 11:10 PM

#

I'd personally go for hunting blades.

south sonnet Nov 16, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

note: i will try for scam cycle because no other boons

indigo seal Nov 17, 2023, 12:29 AM

#

I got 5 titan blood which weapon should I use it on first I don’t know I done the aspect of zagreus on the blade or should I do the shield with the extra damage I don’t know lol I’m either blade or shield but I have a few levels on the gun for the ammo but I don’t know lol

#

I’ve played a bit but I haven’t really used titan blood before only for the gun but I know upgrading a weapon will help me get my first clear

turbid needle Nov 17, 2023, 10:31 AM

#

one demeter fist build please

dapper harness Nov 17, 2023, 10:54 AM

#

there's only 2 good ones

#

zap fists and ME

#

the third is Dio attk which is a worse zap fists

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 2:30 PM

#

indigo seal I got 5 titan blood which weapon should I use it on first I don’t know I done th...

Start by unlocking aspects that work even unleveled. Examples include: Aspect of Poseidon (requires Exit Wounds), Aspect of Arthur, Aspect of Zeus (requires Zeus/Dionysus Special), Aspect of Beowulf (more reliant on cast), Aspect of Rama (preferably with Zeus Special), Aspect of Gilgamesh.

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:21 PM

#

i dont think arthur or gilga work particularly well at low blood bouldy bouldy bouldy

proper furnace Nov 17, 2023, 3:29 PM

#

I mean their dmg ni matter much you hate them is still there

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:29 PM

#

Leveling Arthur only increases the damage reduction which is unimportant, and Gilgamesh only increases Maim damage which is not a huge part of your DPS

proper furnace Nov 17, 2023, 3:29 PM

#

Gilga dash only moment

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:31 PM

#

What's dumber is that most of my examples are hidden aspects which require blood investment into other aspects to unlock

#

I feel like most normal aspects require blood to be decent

#

Or rather, require blood for the aspect to make a difference. Anything can be strong if you play well

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:33 PM

#

yeah but the damage is nonexistent on arthur and especially gilga

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:34 PM

#

By what standard? Top speedrun times? That's not a good metric for new player advice

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:34 PM

#

and also

#

those are both hidden aspects

#

so to even get them you need to spend like

#

13 blood

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:34 PM

#

narrow pike By what standard? Top speedrun times? That's not a good metric for new player ad...

by the metrics of literally anyone

#

as well as the part where they are both clunky

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:35 PM

#

While I agree about Arthur being clunky and not very DPSy, I disagree about Gilgamesh

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:35 PM

#

gilga is like the clunkiest thing in the game

#

weird dashes

#

delayed attacks

#

that have no damage

#

every attack gilga does has a significant delay before it actually does the thing

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:36 PM

#

Gilga has its own rhytm for dashes (spam/lull cycle). You can time your attack and special to this rhythm for minimal disruption, and enjoy the dash spam. Works pretty well if your dash is strong. I enjoy this aspect a lot

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:36 PM

#

i mean its rotation is the same as any other fist

#

dash strikes into dupper

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:37 PM

#

Always spamming attack on Gilga is not a good idea. Sometimes you just dash

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:37 PM

#

but the thing about gilga is also that it has 0 damage

#

the dash strike cannot kill a numbskull without mirror buffs

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:38 PM

#

By what standard, again? Its melee DPS is not particularly low. It's right there in the ballpark of "just like any other mediocre melee"

analog mauve Nov 17, 2023, 3:38 PM

#

yall use dupper

#

bedge

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:38 PM

#

narrow pike By what standard, again? Its melee DPS is not particularly low. It's right there...

not particularly

#

its melee dps is particularly low

#

because of the slower everything

#

dem or zagfists will do anything it does but way better

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:39 PM

#

Well, we have a disagreement on that metric. We'd need some actual numbers to resolve it

analog mauve Nov 17, 2023, 3:39 PM

#

late feels better with ME because of the closer dashes and +2

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:39 PM

#

narrow pike Well, we have a disagreement on that metric. We'd need some actual numbers to re...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1175097931540467863/image.png?ex=6569fe3b&is=6557893b&hm=3dc58c3a5c20f24645e85a644c53c1a1d55bd59b1892d2db798f55199b467199&

#

and this is on the aspect with built in +2

#

so the disadvantage of the crappy rotation is huge

#

but like

#

this also displays if you just play it

#

all of your normal ways to kill enemes in tart on fists just dont work on gilga

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:40 PM

#

The numbers seem pretty close here

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:40 PM

#

how???

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:41 PM

#

vagrant crane all of your normal ways to kill enemes in tart on fists just dont work on gilga

dash strike dupper cast doesn't kill wringer/thug

#

dash strike dash strike dupper cast doesnt kill a lout

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:41 PM

#

Are we seeing different numbers? They're within a tiny fraction of each other as far as I can tell

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:41 PM

#

wait

#

not thug

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:41 PM

#

narrow pike Are we seeing different numbers? They're within a tiny fraction of each other as...

it's speedrunning

#

that is a very long time

#

and these are the peaks of peak builds and play

#

for most people the difference is greatly exaggerated

#

if u handed me the same seed on dem vs gilga it'd probably be a minute faster on dem

#

for reference as well

#

the ananke 5:29 seed was put in runcontrol

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:43 PM

#

Keep in mind that we're also extrapolating from this example to what casual players would experience. Their personal preferences and playstyles matter a lot. If Gilgamesh clicks for someone, they'll have better results with Gilga than with other fists

#

The difference here is not that huge to dominate playstyle difference

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:43 PM

#

no it was the 6:07

#

so

#

the 6:07 was in runcontrol

#

ananke got a 5:25 on it with dem

#

sleep got a 5:40 with talos

#

and after a lot of effort

#

cherry got

#

a 5:57

#

with gilga

#

these are off an identical seed

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:44 PM

#

For example, the optimizations that speedrunners use to cut down these 30 seconds might be something that casual players never do at all. It's not a very good extrapolation

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:45 PM

#

gilga just cannot deal damage and is a large adjustment to anyone playing it

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:45 PM

#

Large adjustment and clunk we agree on

#

I've had Gilgamesh runs with Artemis attack and various sources of stacking % damage, where the fists themselves had comfortably high DPS, without relying on Zeus and Poseidon. It may not be suitable for speedrunning, but can be useful and fun in casual play. Keeping an open mind for more options is definitely more fun IMO

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:49 PM

#

i think the standards of high dps may be differing here

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:50 PM

#

Of course they do, and that's what I'm trying to explain

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:50 PM

#

like what would u consider a good dad fight

#

one that has good dps

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

If I can kill skulls and adds basically by touching them

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

in terms of time

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

This varies. Time is not my #1 metric for that fight

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

oh

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:51 PM

#

I keep telling you, speedrunning isn't everything and isn't everyone's obsession

#

Even though high heat basically requires it

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:52 PM

#

theres no other good measure of dps and moveset that is actually valuable

#

and consistent

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:52 PM

#

Comfort, safety, personal preference are also important metrics

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:52 PM

#

sure but this is dps we're talking about

#

and moveset

#

which some dad numbers can tell you a lot about

#

is it pulling 30 seconds or more like 60

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 3:53 PM

#

Can't tell you. Depends on the build, a lot

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 3:53 PM

#

even between 29 and 32 is a huge difference in build

#

on beo

#

on fists it's incredible to get anything sub40

#

here u go, data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14QyN4MrSpNyXXTCdkEoos3H5ie0vFq8DJOgQ0rO9Lgo/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs

Copy of Hades Bosses

Sub-6 Runs

IGT Time,Runner,Weapon,Aspect,Mods?,Notes,Fury,Furies time,Meg,Alecto,Tis,Lernie,Heroes,Dad,Bosses Total,Non-Boss Rooms,IGT Time (again),Link
2:58,Vorime,Shield,Beo,Unmodded,Flood, routed,Meg,00:09.21,00:09.21,00:20.78,00:04.51,00:22.56,00:57.06,02:01.82,02:58.88,

tight basin Nov 17, 2023, 4:24 PM

#

narrow pike I keep telling you, speedrunning isn't everything and isn't everyone's obsession

I mean that's understandable but isnt the argument like gilga can do more damage than dem
So wouldn't looking at speedrunning metrics be better for that

narrow pike Nov 17, 2023, 4:30 PM

#

As a general ballpark sure it's useful. If the typical "top" times for one weapon are 1 minute longer than another weapon of a similar type (like melee vs melee), this tells you there's significant disparity between the two. Just need to be careful when extrapolating this to something other than speedrunning

#

There are also biases in the data. For example looking at this data doesn't automatically guarantee that Arthur is truly, hopelessly atrocious. Its number is also biased by most speedrunners focusing on other aspects, and thus having less practice with Arthur. Its actual "top" time could be significantly better with more people practicing it, and we don't know by how much

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 4:32 PM

#

arthur definitely is truly and hopelessly atrocious

#

the reason people's times might not be on the sheet

#

are because they were too slow

#

if you ask anyone who has done, for instance, 24/7

#

they will tell you that arthur is very poor

tight basin Nov 17, 2023, 4:33 PM

#

I mean it'd be better to look at the speedrunning leaderboard rather than just the sub6s

#

I haven't checked myself but Dem probably has faster runs on average than gilga

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 4:34 PM

#

i think there is a nonzero chance gilga has faster average runs

#

because barely anyone plays it

#

while a lot of people play dem

#

but also

#

i think like 13 people have dem sub6s

#

so most likely not

#

10

#

although the average dem sub6 is slower than the average gilga sub6 lol

tight basin Nov 17, 2023, 4:39 PM

#

The avg sub6 gilga is just 1 run lmao

vagrant crane Nov 17, 2023, 4:40 PM

#

yeah thats why lol

ocean cliff Nov 17, 2023, 10:53 PM

#

speaking of gilga, what god would go well on it

uneven basalt Nov 17, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

Do you still need an answer?

ocean cliff Nov 17, 2023, 11:22 PM

#

honestly i forgot i asked and went to make food, still curious tho

uneven basalt Nov 17, 2023, 11:24 PM

#

You’d take ares keepsake and go for his doom attack and then hope for Tartarus Athena boon and try to get ME build

#

Basically like any other fists too

ocean cliff Nov 17, 2023, 11:25 PM

#

fair, thanks

lucid quartz Nov 18, 2023, 1:10 AM

#

if there's no dash-attack modifiers, is it worth it to dash attack on the bow or is it always better to do a regular power shot when possible ? ive noticed dash attack deals less dmg but i could be missing something

vagrant crane Nov 18, 2023, 1:11 AM

#

lucid quartz if there's no dash-attack modifiers, is it worth it to dash attack on the bow or...

dash strike power shots are always better

lucid quartz Nov 18, 2023, 1:22 AM

#

why's that ?

proper furnace Nov 18, 2023, 1:22 AM

#

dash strikes charge faster and keep you moving

maiden grail Nov 18, 2023, 1:49 AM

#

for aspect of arthur is tank build or big smack the prefered build route?

proper furnace Nov 18, 2023, 2:05 AM

#

for dmg you use aphro attack so you kinda just get both lol

wild pasture Nov 18, 2023, 2:08 AM

#

Holy crap, Artemis build on the gun...holy wow

#

Had the most ungodly time beating this run

#

It was absolutely wild. Also pommed the heck out of my cast ability from artemis

vagrant crane Nov 18, 2023, 2:12 AM

#

wild pasture Holy crap, Artemis build on the gun...holy wow

wdym artemis build

south sonnet Nov 18, 2023, 3:38 AM

#

how to rail:
zag: dont
eris: tdash+lightning strike+sea storm+splitting+delta chamber/clockets
hestia: clockets/random attack hammers+tdash/ddash/hdash+art/aph attack
hidden: eris but if you get triple bomb go art special, and dont go tdash

maiden grail Nov 18, 2023, 4:25 AM

#

proper furnace for dmg you use aphro attack so you kinda just get both lol

Aphro was putting out in the Arthur build holy... I sadly wasn't able to get her attack (Athena's took that spot) and settled for special which acutally worked out nicely after getting the hammer for twice special and unhealthy fixation

frozen latch Nov 18, 2023, 4:28 AM

#

there is a funny thing you can do you athena strike on arthur

#

stand inside your special and play baseball

maiden grail Nov 18, 2023, 4:28 AM

#

funny you mention that, It's how I killed ol Lernie XD

frozen latch Nov 18, 2023, 4:28 AM

#

deflect everything inside the special is fun

#

get brilliant riposte and divine protection is a fun bonus

maiden grail Nov 18, 2023, 4:29 AM

#

completly by accident but cemented my appreciation for Athena attack

frozen latch Nov 18, 2023, 4:30 AM

#

from a casual standpoint, arthur is really fun, if only it was good for anything other than that

proper furnace Nov 18, 2023, 4:32 AM

#

Athena attack is fine if you get it on epic

#

If not idk try and get some chaos buff to offset the dmg difference

maiden grail Nov 18, 2023, 4:32 AM

#

It is pretty surreal having x5 hard labor and face tanking bosses thanks to the combo of deflection(attack and call), Dodge chance, weakening, and butt loads of DR

maiden grail Nov 18, 2023, 4:33 AM

#

proper furnace Athena attack is fine if you get it on epic

that was my first run with arthur and It went very very well. Yet still plenty of room for it to have gone even better

wild pasture Nov 18, 2023, 3:59 PM

#

vagrant crane wdym artemis build

Having her special and cast

south sonnet Nov 18, 2023, 6:04 PM

#

that is unfortunately nothing special

#

generally casts are only used to trigger boiling/abyssal, but if you dont have anything else to do, you can use them
also, shouldve gotten support fire on rail

proper furnace Nov 18, 2023, 8:02 PM

#

I love that one

ivory turtle Nov 18, 2023, 9:42 PM

#

I just got epic RD with hyper dash and greatest reflex and a CRAZY Zeus build, I might be able to beat Dad without popping a DD

maiden grail Nov 19, 2023, 12:33 AM

#

Thoughts on pressure point?

proper furnace Nov 19, 2023, 12:38 AM

#

Is certainly a boon

#

Good for using hunter's mark

south sonnet Nov 19, 2023, 2:22 AM

#

good support/filler boon

#

absolutely goated with mark

quartz swallow Nov 19, 2023, 5:57 AM

#

I just played back hades, on heat 1 now. is there a guide in 2023 or close to it to teach u what to focus on god's duo building and what weapon is better like a tier list?

tight basin Nov 19, 2023, 6:05 AM

#

quartz swallow I just played back hades, on heat 1 now. is there a guide in 2023 or close to i...

there's a guide pinned here that should help with builds

#

if you want like an aspect tier list then it's kinda like

#

disorganized in the sense that it's kinda difficult to actually discerne everything inbetween the top and bottom lmao

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1156087956969369700/image.png?ex=65656f50&is=6552fa50&hm=aa5cb6c7d13c90415c3cd6fe88a486a737695f1ae533496a2085a37b5166ccd6&=&width=1440&height=468

#

like i made this, which takes in score ranking for aspects at speed and heat and the middle is all just mush lmao

quartz swallow Nov 19, 2023, 6:08 AM

#

i appreciate it !

#

thanks Banana.

vagrant crane Nov 19, 2023, 6:08 AM

#

wait

#

how did hera get to the top here

tight basin Nov 19, 2023, 6:08 AM

#

the req was like

#

40 heat for heat

#

for reasonablness

vagrant crane Nov 19, 2023, 6:09 AM

#

oh

tight basin Nov 19, 2023, 6:09 AM

#

so hera landed A for heat since like 40 is still the area where the only thing shafting you is bp

#

and no high confidence i guess

#

and ap1 to an extent

#

maybe i should add in another tier for like
7-8, 5-6, 4, 2-3 or something

#

because the middle kinda wonky i think

vagrant crane Nov 19, 2023, 6:11 AM

#

i wouldnt go off points

#

just vibe

tight basin Nov 19, 2023, 6:11 AM

#

i mean yeah but also way too many people ask for a ranking so i made a jank one

south sonnet Nov 19, 2023, 6:18 PM

#

what other gods/boons should i go for on hunting blades achilles

vagrant crane Nov 19, 2023, 6:18 PM

#

well like

#

standard sort of stuff

#

the pool you're happiest to see is

south sonnet Nov 19, 2023, 6:18 PM

#

note: my rng right now is absolute garbage, so hunting blades will literally never appear

vagrant crane Nov 19, 2023, 6:18 PM

#

pos arty ares zeus

vagrant crane Nov 19, 2023, 6:19 PM

#

south sonnet note: my rng right now is absolute garbage, so hunting blades will literally nev...

i think this might be some decision making issue as well

south sonnet Nov 19, 2023, 6:19 PM

#

no, ive been taking every single arty and ares room, gotten the prereqs, and have not taken much to block out hunting

#

the only thing thats happened so far is i think 1 mirage from arty

dapper harness Nov 19, 2023, 6:23 PM

#

unlucky

south sonnet Nov 19, 2023, 6:27 PM

#

the last run was the best one yet, made it to em4 phase 2 and died to time
it was also the run where i failed hunting blades 4-5 times

#

got carried by normal slicing

errant acorn Nov 20, 2023, 2:13 AM

#

I feel like I'm plateauing. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I just cannot seem to get better than my 8:29.

potent tree Nov 20, 2023, 2:14 AM

#

Time to get VOD reviews, maybe

errant acorn Nov 20, 2023, 2:14 AM

#

Maybe.

#

I know my luck is definitely a big part of it.

#

Oh, and I don't play on PC. That's probably part of it.

#

Maybe I should play on PC.

potent tree Nov 20, 2023, 2:21 AM

#

Bigger screen with less input lag, higher framerates, mods, etc. are always nice

south sonnet Nov 20, 2023, 4:09 AM

#

speedpack(i dont use it) zagluv

tight basin Nov 20, 2023, 7:06 AM

#

errant acorn I feel like I'm plateauing. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I just cannot ...

if you can, rewatch your own runs and see how you can improve on room clearing. there's always gonna be improvement there

#

if you don't record, then learning spawn manips might help in the mean time while you get some recordings in

#

or watching top players and looking at how they clear rooms and why they path the way they do

spare flare Nov 20, 2023, 9:15 AM

#

tight basin https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1156087956969369700/...

Hestia overook Eris, huh? That's surprising.

eager flint Nov 20, 2023, 11:51 AM

#

ok so slain foes sending inferno bombs is not as free when you get duplicating armored enemies from BP2. Noted

#

Also taking a chaos curse where I can't pick up my bloodstones right before furies while I'm running poseidon sword is not a good idea either

#

(I got tempted by the shiny +1 cast)

narrow pike Nov 20, 2023, 12:17 PM

#

Following up on "Gilgamesh is clunky". Rush Kick makes it nice and fluid, and has synergy with Gilgamesh' Special gimmick. I really like how this hammer changes the flow of the fists. Because Gilga is so clunky, at this point I prioritize Rush Kick over Breaching Cross. You can abandon Attack and spam Special, interspersed with Cast if you have a good Cast boon. Works excellently with Poseidon Special and Razor Shoals, among other things.

#

Also excellent with Demeter Special or Dash and Killing Freeze, because Rush Kick makes it easy to dash between enemies to apply Chill (it basically flies you to enemies)

polar python Nov 20, 2023, 12:55 PM

#

Interesting. I'd never have considered that combination.

uneven basalt Nov 20, 2023, 12:58 PM

#

What I don’t understand about gilga is, why would you make the special somewhat better, but boost dash strikes? Or rather give you more of them?

narrow pike Nov 20, 2023, 3:29 PM

#

Not sure if I understand the question there. Gilga's dash strikes are just as weak as on other fists, and it actually doesn't give you significantly more dash strikes per second (on average) when using dash on cooldown

vagrant crane Nov 20, 2023, 3:29 PM

#

narrow pike Not sure if I understand the question there. Gilga's dash strikes are just as we...

gilga has less dash strike base damage

narrow pike Nov 20, 2023, 3:30 PM

#

For real? Well, wasn't significantly relying on them anyway. Now we know

proper furnace Nov 20, 2023, 3:34 PM

#

Yeah 5 less dmg

#

Mirrorless/boonless gilga Dstrike can't kill a numbskull

uneven basalt Nov 20, 2023, 3:44 PM

#

Yeah but doing ME is kinda good or rather better than other fists

proper furnace Nov 20, 2023, 3:46 PM

#

Better than talos ig

#

Dem nuke offers a nice burst for dmg pre ME

uneven basalt Nov 20, 2023, 3:46 PM

#

Yeah but honestly 7 dashes are too many for my brain to register

#

(Assuming I got epic greatest reflex)

#

Which I for some reason get more often that ddash

tight basin Nov 20, 2023, 4:22 PM

#

spare flare Hestia overook Eris, huh? That's surprising.

Eris is less safe than hestia at heat

#

Hestia is pretty easy to climb heat with

#

Same with eris but the risk of dying is a lot higher lol

vagrant crane Nov 20, 2023, 4:23 PM

#

hestia also isnt hammer dependent for safety

#

and then hestia and eris are pretty close for speed

spare flare Nov 20, 2023, 5:35 PM

#

Please expound.

tight basin Nov 20, 2023, 5:46 PM

#

In what part

#

Hestia doesn't have a hammer than actively hurts it

#

Its either something helpful even if it's marginal or a nothing hammer

#

And it's also inherently safe because of the range

#

Eris hazard bomb is funny but actively harmful

#

And eris kinda plays similar to melee aspects to get the boost off of the special and deal damage

#

It prefers delta chamber for iframe safety, especially at the higher end

#

They're just both equally good at speed but hestia is better than it at heat so by the jank point system hestia is overall better

#

It's jank for a reason lmao I didn't spend that much time trying to make it that good

#

Mostly because most people don't go for 40 heat or lower than sub10

narrow pike Nov 20, 2023, 7:05 PM

#

I just found a Chaos gate in Chamber 34 before the final region 3 shop, didn't have enough health for it, so I killed myself with bulb traps to "heal" with Stubborn Defiance to take the gate anyway (just before the boss!). Hardcore suicidal 😂

lean hornet Nov 20, 2023, 7:06 PM

#

If stubborn defiance heals you to more health than you have at that moment, use it

#

unless you have td on and it would take too long

tight basin Nov 20, 2023, 7:11 PM

#

you always do it anyways despite td

spare flare Nov 20, 2023, 7:11 PM

#

tight basin They're just both equally good at speed but hestia is better than it at heat so ...

The dependency on Delta Chamber, low compatibility with Hazard Bomb, and melee-range dependency (which can be solved with rocket shots at walls, but that's a bit of time expenditure) explains it pretty well. Cheers.

tight basin Nov 20, 2023, 7:11 PM

#

unless you have touch of styx dark and you have like 50%+ hp unless you have hightened security

tight basin Nov 20, 2023, 7:12 PM

#

spare flare The dependency on Delta Chamber, low compatibility with Hazard Bomb, and melee-r...

I mean if you get rocket first, you don't have delta chamber lol

#

And also that works at like the start of fights but midfight, you'd rather have the bomb damage and try to get the boost off of that

spare flare Nov 20, 2023, 7:17 PM

#

Also true.

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 8:04 AM

#

Eris allow you to take Damage Control so hestia and eris heat is similar imo

#

with eris having a higher peak

analog mauve Nov 22, 2023, 8:06 AM

#

Hestia is easier

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 8:06 AM

#

is it tho? you defeat em4 with eris before

analog mauve Nov 22, 2023, 8:07 AM

#

Em4 is a whole different ballgame

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 8:09 AM

#

fair, I just love my mirror too much that free 2 heat from DC greatly change my opinion for an aspect

polar python Nov 22, 2023, 8:10 AM

#

I think they're both equally op at the upper end. Doing regular 2k crits per shot is pretty hard to argue with either way.

#

Eris has a bigger variety of builds for it though.

acoustic vale Nov 22, 2023, 8:25 AM

#

What do y'all think the worst boon in the game is?

#

I think the one that makes Demeter cast lasers point at Zag is up there.

potent tree Nov 22, 2023, 8:26 AM

#

Peer Pressure, maybe

acoustic vale Nov 22, 2023, 8:27 AM

#

Which one is that?

potent tree Nov 22, 2023, 8:29 AM

#

Spreads Hangover around to other enemies. It's pretty bad

acoustic vale Nov 22, 2023, 8:30 AM

#

Yeah that doesn't sound great

#

Demeter cast is bad but it DOES have that one boon that makes it actually target enemies so I wouldn't call it among the worst in the game

#

TBH I think that should be default behavior and that boon should be replaced with something else

polar python Nov 22, 2023, 8:36 AM

#

I think the OP was referring to Cold Embrace specifically, not Crystal Beam in general.

analog mauve Nov 22, 2023, 8:38 AM

#

frozen latch fair, I just love my mirror too much that free 2 heat from DC greatly change my ...

Dc is free heat for hestia if you play it wrong enough

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 8:43 AM

#

you definitely convinced me to do a fds on hestia lmao

#

which is the optimal way anyway

proper furnace Nov 22, 2023, 9:59 AM

#

potent tree Spreads Hangover around to other enemies. It's pretty bad

I love how this thing has a x8 dmg bug but is such a bother to use is still so bad lmao

narrow pike Nov 22, 2023, 10:18 AM

#

I don't think I've ever picked that boon, other than for the inevitable prophecy. Folks say that any hangover boon overwrites any other hangover effect. How does that work if you have the "spread hangover" boon but also continuously apply hangover with an attack?

#

Like, do they overwrite each other?

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 10:25 AM

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523766637757726722/1117898360087642212/image.png?ex=656e287a&is=655bb37a&hm=6a30fa2b74434ac113fdbb9d6ea6bdd672ffe23a7512f942390318c91a863941&=&format=webp&width=1282&height=396

#

you still overwrite it with the newest hangover source

narrow pike Nov 22, 2023, 10:30 AM

#

Huh good to know

vagrant crane Nov 22, 2023, 7:09 PM

#

frozen latch Eris allow you to take Damage Control so hestia and eris heat is similar imo

this is probably true above 55 but at 54 and below hestia heat is absolutely free

#

eris is less safe

#

in unmodded, hestia has no hammer reliance

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 7:11 PM

#

ic, seem like delta chamber spoiled me too much

#

I've only done eris unmodded ap0 so I'm biased

lucid oar Nov 22, 2023, 7:12 PM

#

yea i agree with jazz here

#

hesty 55 is so much harder

vagrant crane Nov 22, 2023, 7:14 PM

#

lucid oar hesty 55 is so much harder

clearly the strat is dc1

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 7:14 PM

#

I've tried eris 55, time is my issues currently but hestia 54 curbstomped me at ely

vagrant crane Nov 22, 2023, 7:14 PM

#

i did hestia 54 modded first try and have not touched much heat since

#

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/1140738575105806346/image.png?ex=656e3196&is=655bbc96&hm=8bbb6fc44ad1ca02b04fb9544d088e47809aadc38cda600ee1c018abf66f1232&=&format=webp&width=1440&height=463

#

the other thing about eris is ap2 jolted bouldy

frozen latch Nov 22, 2023, 7:20 PM

#

I was doing the drunk strike strat

#

which is fine, until em4 show up

vagrant crane Nov 22, 2023, 7:20 PM

#

in that case it just feels like a wet noodle

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 3:10 AM

#

Question, I have Zag Rail spread fire with aphro on attack and need to choose between piercing fire, rocket bomb and explosive fire. I haven't been using my special much and currently don't have a boon for it; should I get rocket or one of the attack boons?

#

I'm choosing rocket lol

vagrant crane Nov 23, 2023, 3:14 AM

#

ivory turtle Question, I have Zag Rail spread fire with aphro on attack and need to choose be...

piercing

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 3:14 AM

#

Shoot lol

vagrant crane Nov 23, 2023, 3:14 AM

#

good for shield guys

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 3:14 AM

#

Oh shoot u rite

#

And probably Theseus too

vagrant crane Nov 23, 2023, 3:16 AM

#

yeah hes a shield guy

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 3:35 AM

#

I wish I took piercing shadegrief

#

I made it through but my life would've been much easier lol

#

I'm so bad with rail it's not even funny

south sonnet Nov 23, 2023, 3:37 AM

#

just dont zag rail bouldy

#

hestia and eris are pretty cool, ||luci is just aspectless rail that does really good with triple bomb||

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 3:45 AM

#

Out of all of them I do best with Hestia because Hestia plays a lot like bow, but then I just wanna be playing bow lol

#

Also, I gotta get bad news for the fated list; I'm thinking Achilles or Poseidon and just running plume the whole way cuz I've never done it before

#

Any tips?

weary idol Nov 23, 2023, 1:09 PM

#

is there any recommended aspects for each weapons?

dapper harness Nov 23, 2023, 1:12 PM

#

nemesis, achilles, zeus/beo, hera/rama, demeter, hestia/eris

#

they're usually considered the best of each weapon

weary idol Nov 23, 2023, 1:16 PM

#

thanks

south sonnet Nov 23, 2023, 9:13 PM

#

ivory turtle Also, I gotta get bad news for the fated list; I'm thinking Achilles or Poseidon...

its got a bug where it applies global damage instead of cast damage

#

so dont use a cast lodging build

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 9:32 PM

#

Wait what, it makes everything 50% more powerful instead of just casts?? Yeesh

proper furnace Nov 23, 2023, 9:32 PM

#

is common hyper delivery yeah

#

just w/o scaling and also rarer to get

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 9:33 PM

#

That's a very silly bug lol

proper furnace Nov 23, 2023, 9:34 PM

#

still more tame than beo bugs

ivory turtle Nov 23, 2023, 9:34 PM

#

Oh beo is beautiful

#

Mirage shot beo chefs_kiss

proper furnace Nov 23, 2023, 9:35 PM

#

trippy flare poms and crit

ivory turtle Nov 24, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

IIRC trippy flare poms do double what they say they will right?

#

And what about crit?

#

Also would it be worth going ruthless reflex to do a full dodge build?

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:59 AM

#

ivory turtle IIRC trippy flare poms do double what they say they will right?

yes

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:59 AM

#

ivory turtle And what about crit?

iirc from the bug list so i'm probably wrong, but it does 2x instead of 3x?

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:59 AM

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ivory turtle Also would it be worth going ruthless reflex to do a full dodge build?

if your only goal is to dodge, then technically yeah but it'll make like doing anything difficult lmao

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2 dashes utility wise is so much better in terms of actually dodging and dealing damage

neon yoke Nov 24, 2023, 9:04 AM

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hey slight question? Do you guys with Achilles spear prefer to go flurry + triple jab hammer

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Or flurry plus serrated point?

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got a Artemis attack build, with Dionysus cast and not sure whether to take breaching spear, serrated points or triple jab with in elysium

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As I do already have flurry jab

neon yoke Nov 24, 2023, 9:24 AM

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went with triple shot and now I need to decide between heart rend and mirage shot

acoustic vale Nov 24, 2023, 9:25 AM

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tight basin if your only goal is to dodge, then technically yeah but it'll make like doing a...

Except on gilga

neon yoke Nov 24, 2023, 9:25 AM

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Question?

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I technically am at Styx and have a Aphrodite boon still available

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Can the same duo boon appear twice?

errant narwhal Nov 24, 2023, 9:33 AM

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Yes it’s not limited to showing up one time. If you didn’t pick it it may show up again

neon yoke Nov 24, 2023, 9:35 AM

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Thankyou!

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I just got both

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This is an insane run WTF lol

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Let's just pray I'm good enough

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Doing a new game and only have one death defiance

errant narwhal Nov 24, 2023, 9:35 AM

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🙏

neon yoke Nov 24, 2023, 9:37 AM

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I'm bad l

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We don't

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I'm tired I'll use that excuse

lucid oar Nov 24, 2023, 5:56 PM

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Not really overkill, but it makes the dash strike longer to come out so its worse dps than flurry alone when used right, and the dash penalty sucks

weary idol Nov 24, 2023, 6:30 PM

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is there any recommended boons to start with for each weapon?

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:34 PM

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it's more aspect dependent than weapon dependent

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some aspects start the same, like how every rail besides hestia start zeus

vital sedge Nov 24, 2023, 6:34 PM

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Slower attack speed, higher damage - go with % increases
Higher attack speed, lower damage - go with Zeus or Dio

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:35 PM

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Or ares

vital sedge Nov 24, 2023, 6:35 PM

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We don't talk about Ares.

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:36 PM

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ME can work really well

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:36 PM

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ME kinda strong

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if you get the boons

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even if you dont get the boons, depending on the aspect it wont be that bad

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:36 PM

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On its own it won’t do much tho

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:36 PM

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namely like nemesis and demeter are kinda fine without ME

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~~as long as you get the right hammers~~

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:36 PM

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Is there any hammer for fists that’s important that isn’t breaching cross?

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:37 PM

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if you dont get ME, exploding upper on demeter is like your only source of good dps lmfao

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:37 PM

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Oh true

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:37 PM

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1020918950046994503/unknown.png?ex=656c085d&is=6559935d&hm=b15070454026b8991690569c8a60247eb710a9e399a2d4c8b9d0ae8367256466&=&format=webp&width=1191&height=670

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:37 PM

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~~I never unlocked dem~~

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:37 PM

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lmao based

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but yeah fist hammers generally aren't too important

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explupper and breaching cross are kinda just like nice things to have

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if you dont get ME then you're just gonna wish you got a good hammer lmao

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:38 PM

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Well if you’re playing zag fists or gliga breaching is the only option since you generally don’t get full ME till asphodel

tight basin Nov 24, 2023, 6:38 PM

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pretty much yeah

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rending is nice on gilga if you're good at not getting hit lmao

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explupper too for spreading maim better

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explupper maim on heroes for big meg is fun

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:40 PM

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I Never managed to use the special on fists properly

vital sedge Nov 24, 2023, 6:40 PM

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The yo-yo

uneven basalt Nov 24, 2023, 6:40 PM

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Attack was just too comfortable

nocturne zenith Nov 24, 2023, 7:22 PM

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any tips for what to run with aphrodite boons or what weapons she works best with? i struggle with her cast range and the lack of dps if she's not paired with damage over time

proper furnace Nov 24, 2023, 7:23 PM

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Her cast is best for hera bow

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Also good for hidden shield

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But basically you slap her attack or special in any high dmg move

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Like hestia rail

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She has the highest % modifier

nocturne zenith Nov 24, 2023, 7:24 PM

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oh fantastic. i haven't played in a fair few months, that's great to know

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 6:15 AM

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K, I wanna do a Chiron run but Idk what to build; anyone got any fun ideas?

vagrant crane Nov 25, 2023, 6:19 AM

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so

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for a fun chiron build

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my best suggestion

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go in the courtyard

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select the bow with chiron equipped

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press up once

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press select

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exit the menu

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 6:20 AM

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LOLLLL

vagrant crane Nov 25, 2023, 6:20 AM

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and now, your Aspect of Chiron has a built in 15% critical chance on the attack

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as well as an extra special arrow

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 6:21 AM

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But- but the homing special flushd

vagrant crane Nov 25, 2023, 6:21 AM

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it homes if you are in their face

weary idol Nov 25, 2023, 6:21 AM

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vagrant crane as well as an extra special arrow

extra -5 on lvl 1?

vagrant crane Nov 25, 2023, 6:21 AM

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?

weary idol Nov 25, 2023, 6:22 AM

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or did i misinterpret the perks

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i think i did

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mb

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 7:13 AM

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Yeah I see your point now, I just had a Heart Rend run on Chiron and it was fun but it would've been MUCH better on Zag bow

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 7:36 AM

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Tmw heroic strong drink isn't better than epic strong drink shadegrief

tight basin Nov 25, 2023, 7:39 AM

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it should be

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 7:39 AM

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Wait yes it is, the boon info is bugged tho

tight basin Nov 25, 2023, 7:40 AM

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probably

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 7:40 AM

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It did give me +6% but on the boon description it still says +5%

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Weird

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Oh wait

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No I see

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It's because I'd already gotten bonus damage from it

tight basin Nov 25, 2023, 7:41 AM

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yeah lmao

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once you get a fountain it'll go to 11%

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 7:41 AM

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And it displays what you have not what you get per fountain

tight basin Nov 25, 2023, 7:41 AM

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yeah

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 7:41 AM

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Yeah I just got to a fountain wheeze

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K... If I have hyperdash and I have common RD offered, is it worth rerolling for epic?

tight basin Nov 25, 2023, 7:46 AM

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no

vagrant crane Nov 25, 2023, 7:46 AM

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no

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do not do that

tight basin Nov 25, 2023, 7:46 AM

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never roll for rarity

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you just cry and wish you took refreshing nectar from eury instead

ivory turtle Nov 25, 2023, 7:47 AM

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Kk thanks :DD

weary idol Nov 25, 2023, 9:12 AM

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which is more recommended
charged shot, mino rush or charged flight

vagrant crane Nov 25, 2023, 9:13 AM

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weary idol which is more recommended charged shot, mino rush or charged flight

charged shot 1000000000%

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charged shot is the best hammer in the game

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minotaur rush and charged flight are utterly useless

weary idol Nov 25, 2023, 9:17 AM

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thanks

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hopefully i could end the game this time

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in elysium currently looking for aphrodite's boon

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wanna get heart rend

eager flint Nov 25, 2023, 9:20 AM

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I've been really liking world splitter zagsword

atomic forge Nov 25, 2023, 4:03 PM

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does pressure points apply to call damage as well

dapper harness Nov 25, 2023, 4:05 PM

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with pp anything that deals dmg can crit

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there are few exceptions like explosive return

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piercing wave and combo dmg from ME

eager flint Nov 25, 2023, 4:59 PM

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speaking of ME

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how do people play it

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it's so annoying having to pray for athena to show up in tartarus, or suffering through half the run

uneven basalt Nov 25, 2023, 5:01 PM

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I just die if she doesn’t show up at least once in Tartarus

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No need to go through all that

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Also resetting for epic doom is annoying

proper furnace Nov 25, 2023, 5:05 PM

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Depending in your goal you can just try to force athena i aspho and getting it there

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For higher heats/lower times you def gotta endure the resets

uneven basalt Nov 25, 2023, 5:06 PM

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Yeah but whenever I do I only get ddash in Styx and that if I’m lucky with boons, by then I already lose a lot of time because I can’t use ME with only attack and special

eager flint Nov 25, 2023, 5:09 PM

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My last ME run, I spend like 5 runs trying to get it without success, then I got it... and was bored out of my mind because of how easy it was

uneven basalt Nov 25, 2023, 5:09 PM

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Lucky you, I once tried for 15 runs and called it a day after it didn’t happen

eager flint Nov 25, 2023, 5:17 PM

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well that was me just now, but it was in large parts because I kept dying to furies

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it's harder to get ME when you only get 12 chambers before going back

uneven basalt Nov 25, 2023, 5:17 PM

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Yeah

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Fists or sword?

eager flint Nov 25, 2023, 5:37 PM

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sword

south sonnet Nov 25, 2023, 6:52 PM

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uneven basalt Lucky you, I once tried for 15 runs and called it a day after it didn’t happen

this is like my hunting blades and smair

ivory turtle Nov 26, 2023, 2:22 AM

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Rama run???

south sonnet Nov 26, 2023, 2:25 AM

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rama is cool, dash strike a lot and get either arty or aph on attack

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or you can go budget delta chamber with zeus/dio special

weary idol Nov 26, 2023, 2:29 AM

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what does the first upgrade for demeter's fist actually do?

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like what's special attack 2

proper furnace Nov 26, 2023, 2:31 AM

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It makes the special hit more times when using giga cutter

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At max it hits an extra +5 times
So 7 or 6 hits depending if its a dash special or not

south sonnet Nov 26, 2023, 2:38 AM

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note: it does apply to dash uppers

ivory turtle Nov 26, 2023, 2:40 AM

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south sonnet rama is cool, dash strike a lot and get either arty or aph on attack

Is it worth applying special everywhere or should I just go for dash strike?

south sonnet Nov 26, 2023, 2:41 AM

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special everywhere, then dashstrike to kill them all

ivory turtle Nov 26, 2023, 2:42 AM

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Kk cool :D

weary idol Nov 26, 2023, 2:45 AM

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proper furnace It makes the special hit more times when using giga cutter

i see

ivory turtle Nov 26, 2023, 2:49 AM

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It becomes much more obvious with more titan blood

maiden grail Nov 27, 2023, 1:20 AM

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Can you still get cluster bomb after taking rockets?

lucid oar Nov 27, 2023, 1:25 AM

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Yes and its glorious

south sonnet Nov 27, 2023, 2:30 AM

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rockets dont get affected by the cluster damage reduction

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so its a minor 400 damage per hit. also, you can get triple bomb as well

vagrant crane Nov 27, 2023, 2:31 AM

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well u cant get cluster + triple

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but triple rocket is possible

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a lot less good tho

uneven birch Nov 27, 2023, 5:57 AM

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maiden grail Can you still get cluster bomb after taking rockets?

Got that in a run yesterday. Point blank it was hilarious to watch everything blow up instantly, and bosses chunked for 1k+

ivory turtle Nov 27, 2023, 6:55 AM

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K I was looking at a person's opinions on the Internet: is Heavy Knuckle good on Talos??

tight basin Nov 27, 2023, 7:12 AM

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No because heavy knuckle and talos are both bad and they don't cancel each other out lmao

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Like it's a doable build

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And it could be decent if you learn heavy knuckle timings

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But the bigger issue is the fact that you have to apply a single target debuff to enemies which takes forever due to talos' sticky special

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For bosses it'd probably be decent at best but for room clearing it'll be a pain

ivory turtle Nov 27, 2023, 7:17 AM

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Yeah Talos is,,, not great

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I was just shocked that Heavy Knuckle was ever recommended

tight basin Nov 27, 2023, 7:28 AM

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did you hear that opinion on like reddit or something lmao

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sounds like a reddit take

eager flint Nov 27, 2023, 8:13 AM

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It's not that bad

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copium

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it's good single target damage

uneven basalt Nov 27, 2023, 10:33 AM

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Long knuckle is good for applying epic doom in Tartarus far away and immediately dashing back to the corner so that you’re in position when the thing dies

eager flint Nov 27, 2023, 10:58 AM

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we're talking about heavy knuckle

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the one who changes the combo into 3 40 damage punches

uneven basalt Nov 27, 2023, 11:03 AM

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Oh yeah, that’s horrible