h1-builds-and-combat

[vagrant crane]

lvl2?

[slow mirage]

i havent tried 7 mins yet. id probably have to go fists or sword

[vagrant crane]

you could do something like extreme measures 2 benefits package 2

or extreme measures 2 benefits package 1 tight deadline 2

id do the bp2 one

just simpler

[slow mirage]

im already comfortable with benefits package, i havent done em2 yet

im very lava prone 😛

[vagrant crane]

em2 is really easy

barely affects the fight

[slow mirage]

really?

[vagrant crane]

yeah

it's basically just like

you have to be 10% more mindful of where you dash to

[slow mirage]

boutta give it a try on zag fists with plume. ill let you know how it goes

[worn solar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/906443148941738014/Hades_2021-11-05_23-53-48.mp4 lernie fun

[vagrant crane]

what is that build

[slow mirage]

wait can you not attempt heat 8 if you havent done heat 5?

[vagrant crane]

you can

you could go do 32 rn

the way it works is

[slow mirage]

i just beat meg and it said heat 5

not heat 8

which is confusing me

[worn solar]

ap2 things

[vagrant crane]

the game gives you the bounties for a heat level

if you're at or above that heat

it won't give you 8 heat bounties at 8 heat if you've only done 4 bounties before

[slow mirage]

oh ok

[vagrant crane]

it'll give you 5 heat bounties

yea

[slow mirage]

so ill still get the reward for doing 8 heat but ill collect the bounties for 5

[vagrant crane]

yea

[slow mirage]

tyty

i was lowkey panicking

[vagrant crane]

so you could do 8 heat for the next 4 runs

but then it won't give you bounties if you keep going at 8

[slow mirage]

makes sense

[slow mirage]

ceck the victory chat

[winter herald]

I have an idea for a training session for those who wish to even come close to beating 64 heat

I call it the "Tower of Power"

[untold mauve]

Hey Jazz I have a question

[winter herald]

Basically you set any one enemy enhancing heat to max and clear the run

[vagrant crane]

why me

[untold mauve]

How did you do Beowulf so fast?

[winter herald]

Once you done it once with all enemy enhancers to max you set 2 to max and try different combinations of them if you want

[untold mauve]

I struggled with Beowulf

[vagrant crane]

click buttons good

[untold mauve]

I'm on switch btw

[vagrant crane]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7EOP28oyu6t8KrBEfnrN-dQc6H_ssvAyYz3C1O2JOI/edit#heading=h.h953vyht4pua

[tight basin]

A lot of practice and learning

[vagrant crane]

i just played a lot

[winter herald]

Repeat the process until you can get a clear with all enemy enhancments to max

[untold mauve]

Guess I will learn the Beowulf

[vagrant crane]

thats why a lot of my mechanics arent that good

[untold mauve]

I'm setting a lifty g9al

[vagrant crane]

ive never specifically put time into practicing anything

[untold mauve]

Lofty goal

[winter herald]

By then you should be able to creep your way into applying inconveniences as heat and then get the 64 heat clear if ever

[tight basin]

Do you mean pacts when you say "enemy enhancers"

[untold mauve]

The goal - To beat 64 heat

[winter herald]

Yes

[vagrant crane]

the thing is

[winter herald]

So like max health or max damage or both

And other stuff

BP

[vagrant crane]

hl5 lc4 js3 em3 cp2 bp2 fo2 dc2 td3 pl would be like a free pact on most weapons

[winter herald]

EM

[tight basin]

So your strategy is to slowly increase heat until you can clear 64

[untold mauve]

Well my wifi is gonna cut out so cya later

[vagrant crane]

the issues come when you introduce ri and ap

[tight basin]

As if that wasn't the strategy already lmao

[winter herald]

Yeah but this way you get used to enemies at their peak from the getgo

[strange lark]

the strategy for 64 heat is to increase the heat to 64 and then beat the game

[vagrant crane]

you do that at like

32 heat

[tight basin]

More like 40

Fo2 hl5

50 if you want em4 and cp

[winter herald]

But anyways this is just my idea for a proper training session if you're ever gunning max heat

[tight basin]

A proper training session would be learning one dash Zeus shield lmao

At like 45 with em4

The enemies don't really shaft you too much it's the rng at that point

Boon and enemy type rng

And like no amount of practice can get you through that

[winter herald]

Ima hop on Hades to see what is the max heat if we are only enhacing enemies

[tight basin]

Hl5 cp2 bp2 fo2 dc2 em4

22

Or 20

Something like that

[proper furnace]

Isnt hl5 em4 fo2 already like 20-21

[vagrant crane]

21

[tight basin]

Huh

Oh I can't count

[winter herald]

Looks like its 35 or 36 but im not sure how to activate Hell mode

[proper furnace]

Need to do it when creating a file

Or use mods to change it

[winter herald]

I accidently put lasting consequences to max and counted it thinking it was 40 but that was with LC max

I say 40 and not 39 because i almost forgot to take into account the Hell modr

My training session to relearn the game will begin after a bit of research

[worn solar]

having a build vs not having a build makes a really big difference

even with all the enemy boosting pacts you can just delete them with eris or something

main trouble is super dad but tbh even he can get cheesed

[tight basin]

Yeah I was gonna say

The reason it took so long to beat wasn't because players weren't skilled enough

Like there's 3 confirmed people who are capable of beating it

4 actually

The issue is rng being a pain in the ass

Not getting supporting boons, bad enemy waves, etc

Bad em4 summons

[vagrant crane]

there are multiple randos under several tweets claiming theyve beaten it

is this a thing that usually happens

[untold mauve]

So I forgot how to get to where I can unlock aspects for weapons

[vagrant crane]

just press interact on a selected weaon

in the courtyard

[untold mauve]

It wont let me

I'm setting up Hell Mode for the eventual attempts

[vagrant crane]

have you unlocked rail

[tight basin]

Ngl not surprised lmao

Idk if it's common tho

[vagrant crane]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1136885797564452934/image.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1136885961226203276/image.png

it's like genuinely disheartening to see people reducing the volume of this achievement

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1136886015848628275/image.png

[untold mauve]

I don't have every weapon unlocked

[vagrant crane]

thats the issue

[untold mauve]

I realized that

[trail topaz]

@torpid plaza however

while zeus is an easy win on exagryph

hestia is both better and kinda funner and easier

[tight basin]

hestia and eris are about equal in strength

surprisingly

[trail topaz]

yeah but that's based on professionals

[tight basin]

hestia is a lot easier tho to play non-optimally

eris can be more fun to play if you like the in-the-face style

[trail topaz]

yeah us amateurs 😉

[tight basin]

hestia is if you like to see a single big number

eris is a lot of medium numbers that make a large number lmao

[tight basin]

true

[trail topaz]

look I 100% bastion with max idols but hades is hardcore ok

[tight basin]

i haven't played rail in a long time

lmao nice

i should record a hestia run and see how that goes

if i dont sub10 i'm washed

[trail topaz]

hestia with sisyphus is good

[tight basin]

(my pb is like barely sub9 iirc)

shackle hestia based

[trail topaz]

and good for shackle

[tight basin]

i'll see if this is a shackle angle or not

[trail topaz]

don't sleep on hestia crit

[tight basin]

it depends lmao

[trail topaz]

maybe not a 64 heat build but it's fun!

[vagrant crane]

you need about 100 additive

[tight basin]

considering i'm trying to speedrun it'll depend how much chaos juice i have

if i get good juice then arty attack hesty is a possibility

[trail topaz]

ah speedrun mf just ME

[tight basin]

my brother in christ it's hestia

[trail topaz]

restart if you don't get it

[tight basin]

i'm not that good at hestia to ME it lmao

[trail topaz]

keeping it real

love you ty

[tight basin]

zyru has a sub6 MEstia iirc

[trail topaz]

hestia is so good

in any run

babies and beyond

it teaches strategy, timing. angle

it is also just fun

cmon I don't speed run, tell me elysium kills it

[tight basin]

I can't believe I got offered mirage shot 3 times on pride this run

Should've played beo

4 times now

Unbelievable

[trail topaz]

don't patronize me! (slowest motion reaction)

[dusk parcel]

Lmao y’all just call health chaos juice?

That’s hilarious

[torpid plaza]

I think I like aspect of eris more, I'll go for that one... Once I get the darkness bonus

[tight basin]

chaos juice is damage

like attack%, cast%, that stuff

[dusk parcel]

Ahhh, okay

Got it

[trail topaz]

is it confirmed the rng doesn't f with you!

?*

[tight basin]

wdym

rng always screws with everyone lmao

[trail topaz]

oh sorry just being flippant

well done

[tight basin]

tart was kinda sad because no tdash poms

and common tdash kinda disgusting

@trail topaz arty on special is kinda a "set up" for high rolling into cluster rockest

but it's also just good in general

20% crit is a pretty sizable number

80 base kinda carries it

[trail topaz]

@vagrant crane I do enjoy this game tho

[tight basin]

dw you can hate the game if you turn on routine inspection and approval process!

[trail topaz]

must be terrible rng, I never even get this chance

[tight basin]

that's base chance of artemis special

get dynoed

[trail topaz]

I wrote "no f that"

approval process??

[tight basin]

pact option

-1 boon option per rank

[worn solar]

ap2 ri4 pog pact

[trail topaz]

yes ma'am I know

I just mean that's the easiest pack to work around

[tight basin]

i mean eh

if you're not running tight deadline then it's fine

[worn solar]

just get the boons frfr

[tight basin]

also that

[trail topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/exactly-young-dylan-precisely-absolutely-thats-the-point-gif-23618575

I heard about that one guy but I'm very interested in where humans are in the normal distribution curve

[vagrant crane]

you can also hate the game if you grind for a sub6 at 4 in the morning

[trail topaz]

as someone who smashed it with my whole face I am invested in it being hard >_>

[vagrant crane]

have you tried ri4 32

definitely very fun

[tight basin]

based

[trail topaz]

what's ri?

if it has anything to with the spear then I hope it causes continuous discomfort for all forever

[tight basin]

routine inspection

mirror begone

[vagrant crane]

achilles:

[trail topaz]

look the spear is terrible even for us casuals

[tight basin]

fair tbh

[trail topaz]

ty

[tight basin]

spear is kinda hammer reliant

[vagrant crane]

have you tried getting the hammer

[tight basin]

achilles can work without a hammer but eh

it's substantially less fun

[trail topaz]

lemme just grab that triple attack rq

[vagrant crane]

if it were me and i was playing unmodded what i'd probably do would be get the hammer

[tight basin]

True

That's what I did

[vagrant crane]

i simply have not played unmodded since february

[trail topaz]

not worried about baby mode

[tight basin]

Maybe I should sub7 unmodded

Even tho I have a total of like 5 sub7s ever

[vagrant crane]

id have a decent few if i kept htem

[trail topaz]

I hate the spear

[vagrant crane]

do i hear krill

[trail topaz]

but I will defend against modded runs lol

poor spear is so heavily dependent on rng

in theory

[vagrant crane]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1136924604611448832/image.png

[trail topaz]

in real life I do hate it

[vagrant crane]

thank you very much ares

[trail topaz]

might be cool!

[clear dome]

how do you prevent dad from healing?

[valid dagger]

Break the pots that he’s consuming

Or outdmg it

[outer sonnet]

Is flashfire not good?

I think its great but ive heard otherwise

[valid dagger]

It’s almost unnoticeable. There are better options

It’s not bad but it’s not good

[round umbra]

Is that an oe boon?

[proper furnace]

Lucifer hammer

You start firing earlier + I think faster ramp up?

[valid dagger]

Yes

[round umbra]

Ah right

[round umbra]

Does breaking the pots shorten the time he's an easy target?

[valid dagger]

No he'll just pick another pot

[round umbra]

But like if you killed all the pots before he starts doing that does he stand there not healing for equal time

[tight basin]

I think more spawn or something

[narrow pike]

What happens if Aspect of Hera + Curse of Drowning?

[proper furnace]

Can't get it

[tight basin]

If you want to play Hera with COD use unleveled zag bow and get COD

Quite literally the same thing lmao

[torpid plaza]

how do you prevent dad from leaving

[south sonnet]

kill him

[valid dagger]

ye this is true

[random sequoia]

What god boons are preferred for the gauntlets?

I had a really fun run spamming the special attack on them with the slam hammer and for some reason a ton of Zeus boons

Even got the legendary one as well

[narrow pike]

Trial of the Gods: can not get Duo, but can get Legendary? Never did but wiki implies thus

[proper furnace]

Yeah no duos, yes legendaries

[narrow pike]

Recommend reading the pinned guide here: https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide. Tons of good info

[random sequoia]

Thank you kindly, will do so immediately

Also, I've been told that Dionysus, Demeter are not particularly impressive

This is from a friend who is gauging the game above and before heat 32

And him watching speedrunners

Does Ares, Demeter and Dionysus fall off later on?

[narrow pike]

On Twin Fists? Had very successful runs with Dionysus on Attack, and even one with Demeter on Attack. It can work fine. But Zeus probably best DPS if you get enough of his boons

[random sequoia]

In general, but yes

[proper furnace]

Flat dmg works the best for fists

[valid dagger]

Ares is good for Mericful End builds. Probably the best build for fists

[random sequoia]

He does rate Dionysus call quite highly however

[vagrant crane]

ME

[random sequoia]

I have yet to get that to be fair

I don't prefer Athena boons as most of them feel useless

Like having deflect is only nice on the dash really

[tight basin]

demeter is more of a support god, her cores are pretty lack luster but her supporting boons are pretty good
dionysus is a bit one-note and a tad lackluster but hangover is just consistent. if you want to build around trippy shot/flare, then it's very inconsistent lmao

[valid dagger]

Dionysus Call is almost always good. Dionysus Attack/Special are situational and mostly used for very high heat, way above 32, it's good dmg but in the context of 32 and speedrunning he's right for the most part

[random sequoia]

So neither Demeter nor Dionysus are actually bad?

[vagrant crane]

demeter is pretty bad to build around

good supporting boons

dio isnt bad

[valid dagger]

They're very good in the right builds, the same goes for every other god

[vagrant crane]

very good at high heat

[random sequoia]

Heard the game won't get balance patches anymore and instead Hades 2 will be the one to improve upon it

[vagrant crane]

has a good call

[narrow pike]

You can certainly have successful runs with Demeter Attack/Special on relatively low heat, especially with good rarity and enough poms. Anything works on lower heat, really. It's just high heat where you need to discriminate.

[random sequoia]

I like Demeter's cast

Does a ton of damage

[random tapir]

the problem at least for me with how I do builds is that usually you can really only control a couple of gods, so you're mostly looking at core boons and duos

[vagrant crane]

definitely a top 9 cast

[tight basin]

kinda? it's more like we have a better idea of game balance and what feels good in this type of game, so we can bring our current gripes into hades 2 and maybe they'll be addressed

[random tapir]

so the gods where it's mostly very specific stuff that's good, I use a lot less

[tight basin]

but hades 2 might introduce new mechanics so who knows

[random tapir]

that said I do think the gods are reasonably balanced

[random sequoia]

Also, what's the best use of Ares's spinning blades btw?

[random tapir]

hunting blades duo

[vagrant crane]

achilles hunting blades

[random sequoia]

My friend rates the dash poorly

[vagrant crane]

that or getting blade dash

[valid dagger]

That's the big part of the build, the cores of the duos. But you can influence how likely you are to get them by knowing how boons are rolled and how the god pool works

[vagrant crane]

it's good

blade dash isn't as good as tdash but still has good damage

[random tapir]

yeah for sure, I just mean, it makes some gods a lot less appealing. LIke, I rarely go dio because most of his core boons and duos are eh

[valid dagger]

Occasionally strong for high heat

[vagrant crane]

you gotta pom it

[valid dagger]

You can do a low tolerance build with Dio

[random tapir]

Ares, good for ME or HB but other than that I mostly avoid him

[random sequoia]

Oh yeah, does the guide cover the choices between what to pom and when to try to get many boons?

[valid dagger]

Pretty good with the right wep

[random tapir]

yeah, you can, and I do plan to try at some point

[vagrant crane]

or getting a 6:03 on dem

[random tapir]

just some things just feel stronger

[valid dagger]

Or that nem run

[vagrant crane]

oh yeah

[random tapir]

like, zeus on any fast attacking weapon, it just feels good from the get go and gets stronger as you get jolted and other lightning boons

[vagrant crane]

that was funny too

[random tapir]

same with aphro on slower, more powerful weapons

[narrow pike]

Speaking of Ares Dash, just found his Legendary with a decent-rarity somewhat-pommed dash, and it's killing things alright.

[valid dagger]

I think it does but might not be for every build. Just check it out and if there's something specific to ask about you can do it here and someone will help

[random sequoia]

I wish the spear had the kit of the hidden aspect

[random tapir]

artemis, has a pile of great boons and duos

and so on

[vagrant crane]

why

[valid dagger]

Just play guan yu

[random sequoia]

Less spammy and love the heavy feel

But the low health is somewhat annoying

[vagrant crane]

gy is spammy

[random tapir]

he said GY is less spammy

oh

[worn solar]

itd be nice if base spear special was guan yu

[vagrant crane]

i guess compared to achilles hand breaking action

[random sequoia]

I am talking about the basic attack 😄

[random tapir]

i guess it depends what you mean

[random sequoia]

It's a slow and chunky one

[worn solar]

achilles

[random sequoia]

But you are forced to use the spin attack to heal

[random tapir]

GY the big selling point is the special fwiw

[worn solar]

wait who uses guan yu standing combo?

[vagrant crane]

not really

[valid dagger]

me

[random sequoia]

The special? Not the charged attack?

[vagrant crane]

the optimal solution to the spin attack on gy is to not use it

[random tapir]

the spear's spin attack is hard to use well generally

[vagrant crane]

except for that one time in the 58 run to get the health for a chaos gate lol

[random tapir]

because it's slow to charge, you're really vulnerable and standing still, etc

[random sequoia]

Yeah, I dislike it personally

[valid dagger]

The Special is the selling point yea. It has a big aoe and no recall

[random tapir]

i think most people do

[worn solar]

only time i use gy spin is on spawning waves or bubbles or funny zoos builds

[vagrant crane]

Nyaanyaa's Guan Yu Guide
Generally on Guan Yu, the hammers you want are Charged Skewer > Quick Spin > Massive Spin > Serrated Point. Breaching Skewer and Serpent Wing also alright. And Breaching Skewer becomes top priority for the second hammer if you have Charged Skewer already.

Charged Skewer shortens the startup of Guan Yu's Special a whole lot and lets you hold your Special for up to triple base damage.

You'll want Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish ideally, anyway, for the high % damage. Guan Yu's Special has 45 base damage, piercing, and wide AOE. Anything with % damage is good on Attack except Tempest Strike is unorthodox and requires fully leaning into Poseidon to make it work (though it can be effective and fun).

For optimal DPS, you're either doing Special > Dash-Strike x2 or Cast > Dash-Strike x2 with Guan Yu. Cast for single-target, Special when you can hit multiple enemies with it (or if you have Charged Skewer). And just your Special and reposition if it's enough to one-shot things (which it often is if you have Charged Skewer).

There are two ways to charge the spin: from a normal Attack and from a Dash-Attack. 99% of the time you want to charge from a Dash-Attack. And there are three ways to release a spin: let go of Attack, Dash, and Dash-Attack. Letting go of Attack is the safest method and how you want to release it most of the time. It's also usually the best method for keeping the spin on your enemy. Releasing with a dash gives you i-frames and a lot more range for the spin, but it travels faster. You mainly use that to quickly escape a situation or to throw your spin at very far-away enemies. And releasing with a Dash-Attack gives you the extra range that a Dash gives but without any of the i-frames, but the benefit is that you can immediately charge a new spin. This method is the most aggressive and best for DPS, and it can keep you within the Deflect spin if you happen to use Divine Strike.

[random tapir]

the problem is that ruins one whole aspect

[worn solar]

wall

[random sequoia]

What's your favourite spear? My friend told me that it's better to stick to one weapon for quite some time so you get more resources and not get baited by the 20% boost

[valid dagger]

ngl gy zeus spin builds are gud

[vagrant crane]

the best is achilles

[random sequoia]

So I stuck with the spear as it was awesome

[worn solar]

well ig athena quick spin is decent

[valid dagger]

Im a Guan yu enjoyer

[random tapir]

I don't think that's really true?

[random sequoia]

It's to get a feel for builds and the flow of the game

[tight basin]

Maxing mirror is better than maxing aspects lmao

[narrow pike]

My favorite spear is probably Aspect of Poseidon at this point, got tired of counting the casts on Achilles >_>

[vagrant crane]

its so fun

[random tapir]

Right now I mostly use the dark thirst weapon, and pretty much every run is a clear at a new heat, and new resources

[vagrant crane]

except for that one time i had a 45s lernie on tempest flourish

[random tapir]

If you're only good at one weapon, then sure, you can do that

[vagrant crane]

that was rlly bad

[random sequoia]

Yeah, that's my main gripe with it. I am just running maxed out Zagreus spear at this point

I really don't mind it

Can't wait to get the hidden aspect of the fists though

[valid dagger]

You can get gud with one wep and just streak sub6s to max the mirror quickly

[random tapir]

it's kinda eh

[random sequoia]

That's fair

[tight basin]

So true bestie

[round umbra]

Wai t

[valid dagger]

im doing it right now

[vagrant crane]

mike derust gaming

[random sequoia]

But yeah, mirror is mostly maxed aside from needing reroll tokens

[valid dagger]

im actually not

[random tapir]

those take forever

[valid dagger]

I want to but not really

yknow

[random sequoia]

2nd side of it kinda did not do much

[vagrant crane]

i would believe you if you said you were

[worn solar]

gilga

[random sequoia]

I just prefer the purple ones more

Tried the heroic and duo one and eh

[worn solar]

dark foresight

[random sequoia]

The one with the rares also felt horrible to do without

[vagrant crane]

[worn solar]

[random sequoia]

Like not having a 40% to get rares is sad

[vagrant crane]

it's sadder to get no boons

[random sequoia]

Feels atrocious

[vagrant crane]

dark foresight is literally one of the most important perks on the mirror

olympian favor is garbo

[random tapir]

i like the legendary/duo one; idk I do a lot of builds where a duo is critical. Supposedly if you are good then you can get the duos you need pretty consistently by being careful which dependencies you open up

[worn solar]

rares only kinda matter for hermes

[random tapir]

but that's not that easy

[worn solar]

otherwise just get a pom

[narrow pike]

I had the same impression about Olympian Favor early on, but eventually you come around to appreciate Dark Foresight a lot more

[random tapir]

like if you do a hunting blades build, if you get hunting blades you're fine, the rarities help but they'r enot make or break. getting the duo is make or break.

So I'd rather have more margin for error there.

[random sequoia]

Can somebody show me what good mirror perk loadouts are for the spear or the fists?

[vagrant crane]

it's all the same except for one specific perk

[narrow pike]

The more I play, the more I learn to ignore rarities and go for the important boons regardless

[proper furnace]

Oh speaking of olympian favor

[vagrant crane]

fiery presence, family favorites, dark foresight, fated persuasion

everything else should be purple

[random sequoia]

Ok, that's great

Thank you

[proper furnace]

I used to have it on because
More blue doors = more keys = more fated persuasion

[vagrant crane]

the ones swapped often are stygian vs infernal soul

but that's a tiny optimisation

and you can just stick with infernal for the most part

[narrow pike]

Regardless of rarity, it's crucial to find the right pommable core boons early so you can start pomming them, it's crucial to open the right duos and legendaries ASAP, etc.

[valid dagger]

I think that's the thought process for it on some weps

Mainly hera

But it can screw you with late hammer and poms

[vagrant crane]

mfw lvl3 cast in ely

[round umbra]

Weirdly the required to sell heat has made me consider rarity for things I might sell. Does make for some more build diversity than I would otherwise have ig

[random tapir]

yeah

it's pretty funny getting a duo you don't want

then immediately selling it for like... 400

that's a double powered pom at styx

and change

[worn solar]

getting epic urge to kill for uc fodder

[round umbra]

Why do you need rerolls on hera in particular?

[valid dagger]

Wells

[vagrant crane]

it's blasphemous to purge urge to krill

[proper furnace]

Krill

[vagrant crane]

idk man as someone with around 5 urge to krills i'll take urge to krill over pretty much

[random sequoia]

Ok, but how do you ensure legendaries of all things?

[round umbra]

Urge is after kill bonus or universal bonus?

[random sequoia]

I almost never get them

[worn solar]

universal

its other bonus is 10x chance to steal your ap2 poms

[round umbra]

Do you have their prereqs?

[proper furnace]

Would be funny if urge to krill was global

[round umbra]

Not global

[narrow pike]

Legendaries are unreliable (can't get every run even if you try hard), but you can greatly improve their chances by opening them earlier

[vagrant crane]

have you tried running anyheat

[round umbra]

Always on

[worn solar]

im bad at speedrunning

[narrow pike]

For example, in cast builds, I usually try to get Flurry Cast from my first Hermes to open his Legendary and make it possible to get from my second Hermes

[vagrant crane]

where rd

[random sequoia]

About Hermes, how valuable is he compared to some other boons usually?

[narrow pike]

Definitely not gonna pick RD from my first Hermes, and usually not from second. Prefer his Legendary (more transformative) and Greatest Reflex

[vagrant crane]

make or break build

[random sequoia]

He has some pretty meh perks, but the attack speed boost for instance is awesome and so is the money one

[vagrant crane]

i would be much happier if side hustle and swift strike and flourish were removed from the video game

[worn solar]

greater reflex or rush delivery can save a run

[random sequoia]

How come?

[worn solar]

well except i never remember to use extra dashes

[round umbra]

Rd has pre reqs, so probably don't have to worry

[vagrant crane]

it's literally free damage

[vagrant crane]

because they're useless and clog up his boon pool and make me miss rd

[narrow pike]

Rush Delivery is something I'm happy to get if I already have Hyper Sprint and my weapon involves spamming dash attacks

[vagrant crane]

which is every weapon

[proper furnace]

What weapon you aren't dashing with

[round umbra]

The duality of hades

[worn solar]

rush delivery makes zeus/flat and cast damage go to the moon

[narrow pike]

Does RD really work on Hera, for example? Does it really work on Aspect of Poseidon casts?

[round umbra]

Do note it only applies to standing, not dashing, strikes/flourishes.

[proper furnace]

Yeah

[vagrant crane]

yes

[worn solar]

it does

[vagrant crane]

rd is literally massive on hera

[round umbra]

Very big

[narrow pike]

Even if you release your shot after the buff from your common Hyper Sprint expires?

[vagrant crane]

and pos

[vagrant crane]

why are you doing that

dont do that

[worn solar]

legit just dash

[round umbra]

(Learning the timing takes some practice)

[narrow pike]

Does it dynamically update the damage when you dash after releasing shot/cast?

[tight basin]

Yes

[vagrant crane]

why do you need to do that

just like

[narrow pike]

I mean, you dash all the time in this game, but I'm not sure how timing really works out

[vagrant crane]

dash and shoot

you dont need to power shot on hera

[proper furnace]

As long as you have sprint up when cast hits dmg is applied yeah

[vagrant crane]

i cant play hera without rd its so hard to get damage

[worn solar]

youre generally dashing between every single shot on bow

[vagrant crane]

its so sad to pick qr

[random sequoia]

By the way, do you prefer making builds around the attack or special of the spears and fists?

[vagrant crane]

well

spear special on non gy is pretty useless

unless you get exploding launcher

which is not fun to use

granted playing zagspear or hades is also just sad

[random sequoia]

I do hope they make Spear stronger in the next game

If it will even exist there to be fair

[tight basin]

Bold of you to assume there's a spear in the game lmao

[random sequoia]

I wonder if the gods will be different as well 😄

Greek mythology can easily add plenty

[tight basin]

Apollo is confirmed already

[random sequoia]

Apollo?! Awesome!

[tight basin]

He was in the trailer lmao

[vagrant crane]

hades 2 will be a turn based rpg

[random sequoia]

He's one of my favourite hunters in Smite

[vagrant crane]

amir told me

[tight basin]

Thanks amir

[round umbra]

Cast and attack, respectively

Well, I guess sometimes attack on Achilles and special on GY

[random sequoia]

I don't particularly end up liking many of the casts, which ones are your favourite ones?

[vagrant crane]

CRUSH SHOT

[tight basin]

Beowulf kinda funny

[random sequoia]

I never use Artemis cast, Dionysus is kinda fun for the Zeus synergy, but somewhat eh, Aphro I don't mind, Demeter cast I adore, Poseidon cast I like and Zeus cast is meh

I get Zeus cast a lot as I love him on both Spear and Fists

[vagrant crane]

meme beam

[round umbra]

Meme beam ❤️

Try out Achilles with beans

[proper furnace]

🫘

[narrow pike]

On Aspect of Poseidon and Aspect of Achilles I like Phalanx Shot, Flood Shot, Hunting Blades. On Hera it's Crush Shot all the way. On other weapons probably prefer True Shot just for Boiling Blood

[random sequoia]

Can somebody explain what the author of the guide means by "Slow attacks or specials want the boons that confer percentage-based increases: Aphrodite, Artemis, Athena, Demeter, and Poseidon. Fast attacks or specials want boons that add a new damage source: Zeus, Dionysus, or Ares." ?

[narrow pike]

On Beowulf probably always Crush Flare or Trippy Flare

[random sequoia]

Fast attacks or specials wanting Ares seems weird

Ares doom effects don't proc that often for instance

[proper furnace]

If your attack is fast but has a base dmg of 10

[random sequoia]

Wouldn't a slow weapon prefer Ares?

[vagrant crane]

doom sucks without ME

[narrow pike]

Also which Cast you pick or don't pick heavily depends on the Duos and/or Legendaries you want to get or NOT get

[vagrant crane]

unless you're yeezy

[proper furnace]

Adding a 100% bonus to it will bareky add any dmg

[vagrant crane]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1137103790835765289/image.png

[proper furnace]

Lmao

[narrow pike]

Sometimes you pick a filler Cast just to fill a core boon slot, sometimes you avoid them like a plague because you don't want junk pommables

[vagrant crane]

what do i even do

do i just pray mistral is in sell wel

[proper furnace]

Ask amir for mercy

[tight basin]

CROP

Just don't hit flare

[vagrant crane]

so treu

[random sequoia]

Hmm, so you can do just fine without picking a cast?

How about not having a dash bonus?

[tight basin]

Also is cshot damage important past tart

[vagrant crane]

well i unfortunately have 2 tart rooms remaining

[random sequoia]

Would you still use the cast for the damage increase from the mirror?

[proper furnace]

If you aren't doing a cast build base cast is more than fine yeah

Just use it for boiling blood

[tight basin]

Just work around it lmao

You'll be fine

[proper furnace]

Just skip the combats

[vagrant crane]

i have 6 pommables right now

ok we up

[narrow pike]

%-based boons increase DPS by the same amount for every weapon, but flat damage sources like Zeus or Hangover scale with the number of attacks per second, and can outperform %-based boons when you hit rapidly enough

If the game was balanced differently, maybe this wouldn't be true, but it's balanced in such a way that it's true

[random sequoia]

Mhm, I see. I just didn't really understand the Ares part as he also has % based increases to damage for instance

But he also has blades and death

[vagrant crane]

no he doesnt

[narrow pike]

The only % on Ares is from Urge to Kill and the one where you have to die first

And Battle Rage

[vagrant crane]

and battle rage

[random sequoia]

Aren't all of these pretty decent, no?

[strange lark]

theyre alright

[random sequoia]

The one that after a kill you get a high percentage of damage on your next attack or special

Is that one valued often?

[vagrant crane]

urge to krill best boon in the game

[random sequoia]

I liked it on Aegis

[strange lark]

battle rage can be pretty good

[narrow pike]

Urge to Kill is a decent "support" boon that you take when Ares is your "filler" god

[strange lark]

urge to kill is good to sell since it doesnt really add much

[vagrant crane]

blood frenzy is nonpommable

[narrow pike]

But Urge to Kill doesn't increase your DPS anywhere near as much as a good core boon for your Attack/Special/Cast

[vagrant crane]

thank you hades video game for giving me no aspho skips

nevermind

[cloud condor]

so im tryna beat the final boss but

its really hard to play the game with one hand

[strange lark]

get the onlythans mod

[vagrant crane]

nonmenu than 22

[strange lark]

use your foot

[random sequoia]

So overall you can mostly use him as the filler god if you're taking him and not much more if you don't want death or blade builds?

[strange lark]

yeah

[narrow pike]

Plus, the game tries really hard to fill your core boon slots, and they enable other effects such as Doom into Merciful End, or Hangover synergies, or Zeus synergies, so taking core Attack/Special/Cast is a given, and Ares' ones are all non-%

[random sequoia]

How about Calls?

[vagrant crane]

zeus and dio

[narrow pike]

Many Calls are good all by themselves, you'd take them as a filler and be happy

[strange lark]

iframes

[vagrant crane]

most calls are garbage

[narrow pike]

Some Calls add DPS without blocking your other actions, which is nice

[random sequoia]

And one more thing, does the suggested in the TL;DR of the guide, does it apply in inverse when you have Flurry Jab on the Spear or the heavier hitting fist attacks with the % based ones?

[cloud condor]

calls can be nice sometimes

[vagrant crane]

ares call is useless

[narrow pike]

Zeus/Dionysus/Demeter are non-blocking damage. Artemis too, though I think it's less damage

[strange lark]

ares doesnt have a call

[vagrant crane]

dem doesnt actually do anything

[cloud condor]

ares has a call

[vagrant crane]

it kinda just sits there pretending to do damage

no he doesnt

[cloud condor]

you become invincible

[vagrant crane]

he has no call

[narrow pike]

Ares call is good damage with his legendary

[random sequoia]

I used Ares call a lot haha

It's good in dedicated blade builds

[vagrant crane]

not rlly

it just steals your actual damage

[cloud condor]

you do more damage normally attacking

in most builds

[narrow pike]

Ares call allows you to chill out and sip a coffee while it's taking out an entire midphase of the last boss

[random sequoia]

So Poseidon call is not particularly good either?

[strange lark]

poseidon call is good

since its actual damage

and you move fast

[vagrant crane]

pos call is worse on kbm

[cloud condor]

i wish calls were better

[vagrant crane]

because its so jank

[strange lark]

calls are good

no need to make them better

[vagrant crane]

athena zeus dio and aph'

those are like the best ones

[random sequoia]

Aphrodite's call I used to dislike, but I've grown to like it eventually

Artemis call I almost never end up taking as I want Zeus one more

[proper furnace]

Make greater calls better

[random sequoia]

It's so sad I love Zeus and Artemis together, but their duo boon makes me sad XD

[vagrant crane]

what

rod is pog

[cloud condor]

anyone got tips for the last boss

[random sequoia]

But I've had some cases where it was also very useful

[narrow pike]

I've had plenty of runs which were carried by Lightning Rod

[proper furnace]

Rod mentioned

[narrow pike]

Mostly when I couldn't survive otherwise and had to kite the enemies

[proper furnace]

Proceed to

[vagrant crane]

every single arthur run ever invented was carried by rod

[random sequoia]

When he is about to do the AoE sweep, it's best to try and not dash too early. Around when you notice the white line appear you can dash and it will most likely dodge

[cloud condor]

also what weapon should i be using to beat the game the easiest

currently using the twin fists

[vagrant crane]

the one you like

[cloud condor]

i like all of them

[random sequoia]

Are all the weapons good?

[narrow pike]

All the weapons have their enjoyers

[cloud condor]

the rail is

bad

[strange lark]

no

[random sequoia]

I hear people do not really like the spear aspects for instance

[strange lark]

rail is good

[random sequoia]

Neither the spin attack nor the special for instance

[vagrant crane]

rail has the most consistent 4 aspectas

[strange lark]

spear is hammer reliant

[random sequoia]

I like the bouncing special sometimes, but overall runs feel hollow without Flurry Jab

[vagrant crane]

all 4 are good

every other weapon has at least one dud

[random sequoia]

But are the duds unusable or just somewhat clunky?

[vagrant crane]

well

most are just bad

like arthur

chiron

gilga/talos

[cloud condor]

heavy knuckle is the best twin fists hammer upgrade

[vagrant crane]

hades and zagspear

[cloud condor]

fight me

[vagrant crane]

that is literally the worst one

it is the only fists hammer to be actively negative

[round umbra]

Wait you've used athena call before?

[cloud condor]

it lets me look at the game more

since it takes me so long to kill stuff

[proper furnace]

Lmao

[untold iris]

hades spear is the most fun aspect and you cant convince me otherwise

[narrow pike]

Oversimplified sweeping statements here. Heavy Knuckle may be a negative for Zeus/Dionysus fists, but it's different with % Attack

[random sequoia]

I thought that one has value in heart rend builds with Aphro and Artemis?

[vagrant crane]

yeah, then it’s still bad

[proper furnace]

The thing is that you can't really plan around hammers like that

[vagrant crane]

but now differently

and also worse

[round umbra]

Can if you get them first thing an microseed!

[vagrant crane]

not rlly

[proper furnace]

Seeded runs aside yeah

[cloud condor]

the whole point of fist is the ability to proc the effects really fast

[vagrant crane]

those are all memes

[narrow pike]

The result might perform somewhat worse than "optimal" Firsts builds for some players for some Heat levels, but that doesn't mean it's "bad" especially if some people are enjoying and having successful runs

[round umbra]

Memes r sometimes fun

[vagrant crane]

well in terms of good builds

heavy knuckle is not in them

[cloud condor]

im trying to learn more about the game

[vagrant crane]

the best is breaching cross

solves all your miniboss and bp problems

[round umbra]

Heavy breaching tho

[vagrant crane]

what if breaching kin launcher

[strange lark]

hazard bomb best fists hammer

[round umbra]

Does breaching apply to dash special?

[cloud condor]

breaching cross is amazing

[strange lark]

no

[cloud condor]

it only applies to dash attacks

[round umbra]

Can someone confirm?

[cloud condor]

in elysium most enemies have shields so it trivializes those

[vagrant crane]

it doesn’t

[strange lark]

i will confirm

no it doesnt

[round umbra]

Peer reviewed

[proper furnace]

Breaching cross is the zag bow of fists (effective but lame)

[round umbra]

Lol

[random sequoia]

Also, do people like Cold Embrace btw?

[cloud condor]

ok but

big number

[strange lark]

some people do but its not good

[vagrant crane]

cold embrace requires taking meme beam

[random sequoia]

I used it once and it feels like it hardly hits stuff

[round umbra]

I don't think a single person living or dead does

Like, probably gets more than 50% vote for worst boon

[vagrant crane]

nyaanyaa did

i think

[proper furnace]

Was gonna say that

[vagrant crane]

can’t find the guide tho

[random sequoia]

Also, why is it called the meme beam? 😄

[proper furnace]

Is an aphro boon so it makes sense

[vagrant crane]

cause it’s a meme

[random sequoia]

I thought it was strong

[cloud condor]

self explanatory

[round umbra]

Crystal clarity is da bom

[proper furnace]

It can be an effective clear

[round umbra]

It's really good at melting bosses while you just run away if you have the many components needed for the setup

[proper furnace]

But it asks for a lot of things to go right

[vagrant crane]

Nyaanyaa's Crystal Clarity Guide
(1) Start Stygian Soul and Crystal Beam. (Achilles Aspect is best for the +150% Cast damage, but any aspect can work.)
(2) First Duo Boon you open is Crystal Clarity (with Lady Artemis). Can check codex for requirements. Make sure you don't open up any other Duo Boons for those two gods until you have Crystal Clarity. If you pick up a boon from another god and you're not sure if any of them open up a Duo Boon with Lady Artemis or Lady Demeter, check your codex.
(3) At the same time as you're looking for Crystal Beam, look for Glacial Glare from Lady Demeter. If she's not offering Glacial Glare, DO NOT pick up Lady Demeter's Attack, Special, Dash, Call, or Snow Burst until you have Glacial Glare (because they will pollute her boon pool which Chill tier 2 boons that make it a lot harder to get Glacial Glare). Take her other boons instead until you have Glacial Glare.
(4) Take all Chaos Gates you find and look for Grasp (top priority) and Shot (2nd priority). Reroll if you have to. Get at least one Grasp.
(5) Check every Well of Charon for Prometheus Stones and Braids of Atlas (always in the bottom row). Nail of Talos is also nice because it applies to your Cast as well. Use Bone Hourglass in Elysium and Styx.

(6) Once you have Crystal Clarity, it's fine to open other Duo Boons if they look helpful.
(7) Once you have Glacial Glare, it's fine to pick up one of her boons you weren't supposed to pick up earlier, and then after that look for Killing Freeze (1st) and Arctic Blast (2nd) from her.

That variant has the highest potential, but it relies heavily on finding more bloodstones (Grasp from Master Chaos or Prometheus Stones from Wells of Charon).

You can also start with Infernal Soul instead for better consistency at the bottom end, but the top end of the build will be much lower. Glacial Glare is also a much lower priority if you're using Infernal Soul.

[narrow pike]

My yesterday impression of Cold Embrace: #h1-victory-boasting message

[vagrant crane]

i can’t find the visual guide

[proper furnace]

And an unlucky beams run just ends mainky in wanting to reset on purporse

[cloud condor]

wheres "#520429761420591124-death-coping" for those of us who suck at the game

[proper furnace]

Just rant in the #h1-discussion or here tbh

We have jazz suffering for sub 6 every once in a while

[narrow pike]

I'd love a #hades-defeat-sorrow where we can share/drown our sorrows (in )

[round umbra]

Why you gotta come at me like that? I'm damn well making sure a dem chaos start gets me another heat

[round umbra]

Maybe rename the channel? I suppose keeping them separate has merit

[narrow pike]

🤷‍♀️ Would probably prefer separate just for the impact

[random sequoia]

Thank you, I'll write this down for trying next time

[round umbra]

I didn't think about intentionally not opening up other tier 2 boons.

[vagrant crane]

ohhh

this is what i was looking for

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/g2Xpjhrs3Dbwsy_6DJx5Ik0ygvqoHtVUz9TuSrpY1GE/https/i.imgur.com/d4sJQ6Q.png

i forgot which one was which

it’s all meme beams to me

[untold iris]

what about the alternative strategy of plopping the crystal beam down wherever you are currently standing with no forethought or planning?

[round umbra]

I just did the small group thing always

[round umbra]

Works if you rage rush through baddies right after.

[narrow pike]

Looking at a boon selection screen with both Curse of Nausea and Splitting Headache. Quick calculator math tells me that Curse of Nausea increases Hangover tick rate and thus DPS by ≈42% on average, while Splitting Headache increases all damage received by enemies with 5 stacks by ≈15% on average, less for fewer stacks. I'm using Aspect of Zeus with Ares Attack and Hangover Special. No dash. How do I decide?

[vagrant crane]

what level is hangover

[narrow pike]

One argument is that Curse of Nausea is consistent, while the other is not

[vagrant crane]

splitting headache does suck

[narrow pike]

My Special is level 2, I'm still in Tartarus

[vagrant crane]

nausea

and then sell the attack

aphrodite into aspho

get low tolerance

[narrow pike]

Interesting idea

Yeah sounds pretty neat. This way would also avoid Ares + Aphrodite duo

[tight basin]

Splitting headache is kinda whatever

[vagrant crane]

the way i did in the one time i ever actually tried to get both was just take ares veng

since veng opens con

[tight basin]

Yeah ares veng is the best way to get curse of nausea

[narrow pike]

I would actually consider that, was it on offer in this case, but it wasn't worth rerolling for that

[tight basin]

Fair

At least you can sell the attack

[random sequoia]

How to deal with flame wheels with fists?

It was incredibly easy with Spear as the range is very generous

[proper furnace]

Dash through an obstacle back and forth

They self destruct

Or use your cast

Special may out range them?

[random sequoia]

Ok, thank you, this sounds promising

Special has good range, yeah

[narrow pike]

You can also dash sort of sideways while holding your attack

Even when playing with a gamepad, at close range the game will auto-target the wheels while you're holding your stick to move sideways from their movement, allowing to dodge and attack simultaneously (IIRC)

Easier with KBM

Unrelated: Swift Flourish has no effect on Zeus Aspect flying disc? IIRC I tried at some point and it made no difference

[vagrant crane]

it affects animation speed for throwing it out

[narrow pike]

You'd think it would tick faster

[vagrant crane]

and retrieving

ticking faster wouldnt matter for zeus^2 anyways

since zeus is right on the brink of the cooldown

[tight basin]

If anything wouldn't it be worse lmao

If it hits too fast then it'll be under the cooldown and just won't hit

[narrow pike]

Blown Kiss of ANY use on Hera?

[vagrant crane]

fine without flurry

[narrow pike]

Huh how is that related

[vagrant crane]

you cant undershoot with flurry

[narrow pike]

I thought Hera generates multiple instances of damage, which is why it oneshots armored enemies. Doesn't Blown Kiss only affect the first instance?

Like your actual shot but not the casts?

[vagrant crane]

well yea

it also gives more aoe

[narrow pike]

But that would mean that the effect is the same with or without Flurry

[vagrant crane]

no

because you have to undershoot with blown kiss

if you hit the enemy with the arrow the crush shot wont hit

[tight basin]

crush shot has a bit of dead zone that makes it not hit the enemy under certain circumstances, which isn't an issue most of the time

with blown kiss, a direct arrow hit will make your crush shots never hit

you have to undershoot with it

[vagrant crane]

but most hera players havent thought about blown kiss for 20 years because of modded

[tight basin]

but you cant undershoot with flurry

[narrow pike]

Hmm...

And how is modding relevant?

[lucid oar]

Modded lets you choose what first hammer you get

Speed runners choose flurry shot

[narrow pike]

I see, thanks

Does Sweet Surrender work on second, third, etc. instance of damage in one Hera salvo?

[vagrant crane]

yes

doesnt apply to first

[narrow pike]

Nice. Also: is the base shot applied first, last, or ❔?

Like if you load 2 Bloodstones and shoot, does it first hit with Attack then with Casts or some other order?

[tight basin]

should be attack and then cast

unless you undershoot, then it's just cast

[narrow pike]

"should be" hmm....

[tight basin]

i dont play enough hera lmao

[random sequoia]

How many Centaur Heart rooms do you usually need in a run?

[narrow pike]

I suppose it's testable on Skelly, will try later unless forget

[random sequoia]

Do you just avoid them once you have the darkness rooms adding +5 health?

[narrow pike]

Heart priority depends on your personal preference and Heat level and most importantly, what they're up against

[random sequoia]

Also, read the guide, it was very enjoyable and gave lots of ideas for builds

[vagrant crane]

however many the game makes you take

• however many the game offers against bad gods

[valid dagger]

Nah the darkness rooms are like 10 health throughout the whole run

[narrow pike]

Gods for priority boons and Poms typically take priority over Hearts but sometimes you take a Heart to avoid a god

[vagrant crane]

bosses give you 15

[random sequoia]

Ooh, ok, makes sense

Because otherwise I'd use a token for it

[valid dagger]

Well yea so let’s just say 25

1 heart worth of darkness

[random sequoia]

Do you reroll forced hearts btw?

Or do you not bother?

[vagrant crane]

huh

how do you roll a heart

[narrow pike]

Most people agree that Fated Persuasion is better so it would be a moot question

[vagrant crane]

oh right

i forgot fauth existed

[random sequoia]

I did not invest correctly into that as I did it by ear, but I will do that once I farm up enough of said points

That or just respec

[tight basin]

just respec

[vagrant crane]

check mirror guide

[tight basin]

keys at this pont should be worthless

[random sequoia]

Yeah, they are

I use them for nectar now

[vagrant crane]

Mirror Guide:
This is what your mirror should look like for most things in the game, some of those can vary and some should stay like that,
-Fiery Presence is important to hit certain breakpoints, for example one shotting witches / brimstones etc, some weapons that dont have a strong first hit can go for Shadow Presence instead
-Chthonic Vitality is consistent healing across the biomes, Dark Regeneration will mostly only heal you after Bosses (if you dont have bounties) and there's a fountain there anyway so it's not as good and reliable
-Death Defiances are the go to here, they're forgiving and allow for a big hp pool unlike Stubborn Defiance which you can have 1 of and it also heals for less, so although you're allowed to die in every room once, most new players tend to not have that issue but rather die multiple times in boss fights so SD isnt helpful here
-Second Dash is quite important, it's just a lot of mobility, not much to say about it, Shields and the 4th aspect of the Fists are the only ones that can reasonably manage with 1 dash only so Ruthless Reflex becomes a solid pick
-Boiling blood is just good damage, it's very strong on certain aspects such as Hestia / Zag bow etc and less so on aspects that rely on other sources of damage such as Zeus lightning or Hangover etc but usually you dont change this anyway because everything can benefit from it in one way or another, you can experiment
-Infernal vs Stygian is preference assuming you're not using a Cast weapon / relying on your cast, if so, then it's more specific, Crush Shot Hera uses Infernal for example, Trippy Flare Hera uses Stygian, it takes time to learn those and it's best to ask

thanks mike

[valid dagger]

np

[narrow pike]

Although the aforementioned big guide suggests using Fated Authority for "All The Zeus". Haven't tried this yet

[vagrant crane]

mike where is fated persuasion and df

did i not copy a message

[valid dagger]

It’s 2 messages I think you copied 1

[vagrant crane]

-Deep Pockets is quite an important upgrade, having Gold early in Tartarus is very valuable and shouldn't be overlooked, there is a shop right before every biome boss, so it makes sense to use your gold to buy upgrades before entering that boss, which in turn makes Golden Touch quite useless because you're not gonna have a ton of Gold to scale from anyway
-Thick Skin is good and safe, High Confidence speaks for itself, if you're not too familiar with game mechanics and have a good idea of what you're doing, best sticking to Thick skin
-Family Favorite is a strong pick because you're gonna usually see 5 Gods in each run (counting Hermes) so that's 25% extra global damage all the time, can't go wrong with it, if your build revolves around having 2 curses then it's a good idea to consider Privileged Status, again, best to ask because it's not always correct, example: Low Tolerance Chiron
-Dark Foresight, this might not be as obvious, but this is one of the strongest upgrades in the whole mirror, altering the laurels ratio is way too powerful, essentially this makes it so that you see more Hearts/Gold/Poms/Boons as opposed to Darkness/Gemstones/Nectar and Keys, also it improves your hammer odds so you're usually gonna see your first one early as opposed to in Elysium for example
-God's Pride is nice, Epic Boons are gud, especially Hermes, which otherwise has a very low chance of giving you Epic, you can swap this to Legacy when your build relies heavily on a certain Duo(s), and some builds still opt for Pride despite wanting Duo(s), example: Merciful End
-Fated Persuasion helps with build consistency by allowing you to reroll god offers as opposed to room rewards, you can also reroll other stuff such as wells, Authority is mostly for memeing/ if you know what you're doing

[narrow pike]

It might be better to link the sources

[vagrant crane]

pinned in #h1-for-new-players

[random tapir]

i find that a lot of my builds depend on duos, is the thing

[valid dagger]

It can work but it’s really inconsistent and you have to be very knowledgeable of what to roll. i’d still pick fated persuasion for that build

[random tapir]

like, more than half probably

[vagrant crane]

then get them

it’s not impossible to get duos on pride

[narrow pike]

Then you could link the original message: #h1-for-new-players message

[random tapir]

for sure

[vagrant crane]

artemis is just the most annoying loser ever invented

other gods are perfectly willing to give you duos

[random tapir]

with fated authority isn't there this weird thing where each god is actually in a pool

like, if you see an aphrodite door and you reroll

you can't actally get all 7 other gods or something

[tight basin]

i got mirage shot 4 times yesterday on hestia

on pride

[valid dagger]

Well yea you cant roll an aphro into another aphro

[outer sonnet]

Well

[random tapir]

sure sorry but I mean even other than aphro

[outer sonnet]

If you roll enough times it goes back to aph

[vagrant crane]

do you just mean god pool

[random tapir]

There was a post about it I read a while ago that said that the gods were in some kind of "groups" or something

[outer sonnet]

There is only a set amount of different options you can get per door

[random tapir]

i've actually been looking for it

[vagrant crane]

and this is distinct from the concept of god pool?

[outer sonnet]

Yeahs

[random tapir]

god pool are the gods that you already ahve boons from isn't it

[valid dagger]

Yea

[random tapir]

if so, then yes, this is a distinct idea, i just don't know if it's always true

[outer sonnet]

Its about the pool of options that you can use fauth rolls on

There is only a certain amount of things

Depending on what the first option is

[valid dagger]

Well yea but that’s relatively intuitive

[outer sonnet]

eventually it goes back to what the first one is

After 3-5 rolls or something

I mean like

If you get aph you can only roll it to specific things

I think

[random tapir]

yeah, I think this was part of it. Damn I can't find this post it had a lot of details.

[outer sonnet]

I cant remember

[random tapir]

Like I said at the start, basically if you have an aph door and reroll you can't actually see all 7 other gods

it will cycle through a few of them, I think always the same gods (not related to your god pool) and then back to aph

[outer sonnet]

Yup

Thats how I remember it

[random tapir]

yeah, it's just annoying because someone worked this out it seems and I can't find the post

[outer sonnet]

There are only a few different options you can get

[random tapir]

it's important to know if you actually want to use FA because some rerolls would be a total waste of time

[outer sonnet]

Exactly

[valid dagger]

Ngl ive never heard anything of the sorts but I cant say I rolled doors 5 times and paid attention to how it works

[vagrant crane]

the solution is fated persuasion

[outer sonnet]

Woa

Your a genius

Seriously though

Why would you ever use fauth except for like

2 very specific occasions

[random tapir]

actually what I said isn't true, sorry

So what can we gather from this? It seems that each door has a predefined set of 4 things that it can reroll into. A door will never reroll back to it's starting reward, and it will never give the same reward that matches another door in room. Trials don't seem any more rare than regular boons in terms of rerolling, perhaps you just need to trigger some sort of effect to get it to show up in the pool (similar to Duo boons, which aren't particularly rare, they just need to be triggered).

The myth that Gold/Pom/Heart exists in a different pool than God boons seems busted. Possible reason for the myth could be because someone started with a God boon, rerolled into Gold/Heart/Pom and couldn't get back to the original state.

I found the post fwiw

[outer sonnet]

Where you would want fauth the entire run

[random tapir]

someone tested this fairly rigorously with infinite rerolls

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/ewkqrt/i_tested_reward_pools_using_infinite_rerolls/

[outer sonnet]

Huh

That is not how I remember that

Idk

[valid dagger]

It seems just related to how the bag works but I cant go too much into it so idk if there is some god pattern and whatnot. I havent heard anything about it but cant say that fated authority is used much so yea I’m just unsure.

Will probably look into it later because it sounds interesting

[narrow pike]

• Started Hunting Blades run
• Accidentally opened 3 Artemis duos in Tartarus (!)
• Looking at boon selection with Mirage Shot and Lightning Rod, but no Hunting Blades
  🤦‍♀️

[warm snow]

Get mirage if it's not too late

[narrow pike]

Did that, and got rewarded with Hermes Legendary followed by Hunting Blades, so it worked out after all

[warm snow]

Damn why are so many Artemis duos related to cast

[narrow pike]

IKR? She's my ultimate frustrator because I want 3 of her Duos/Legendaries in a Hunting Blades run and 2 in any other cast run, with tight prereqs

[warm snow]

Well mirage isn't as important on non-beo runs

[narrow pike]

Actually up to 4 in a Hunting Blades run, with Lightning Rod (unless you have Hermes Legendary which negates it and is preferable anyway)

[warm snow]

Hunting blades
fully loaded
mirage
Rod
Crystal clarity
Support fire
too many

[narrow pike]

Well, it's sort of okay to have many as long as they're mutually exclusive like Hunting Blades vs Crystal Clarity, just like Demeter has a ton. But Artemis has several that you want all at once 🤦‍♀️

[vagrant crane]

rod kinda useless and also a little actively negative

since it decreases pickup range on stones

[narrow pike]

Huh it does that? Oooh... I suspected it was inconsistent sometimes, so that's why

Funny because I'm looking at 5 sack with Artemis boons (last boons available in this run) and one of them is Lightning Rod after all. I have Hermes Legendary which auto-succs Bloodstones. Would Lightning Rod proc while succ, or do nothing at all?

It will be hard for me to test, because I have Zeus Dash which I won't be able to not use to not die

[random tapir]

I'm confused what are all the duos you want in a hunting blade run

[narrow pike]

• Hunting Blades
• Mirage Shot
• Hermes Legendary
• Artemis Legendary
• Ares Legendary
• maybe sometimes Lightning Rod if Hermes Legendary?

Found all in this run except Artemis Legendary

[vagrant crane]

you dont want hermes legendary

[random tapir]

But only the first two are Artemis duos

And lightning rod is pointless

Lightning rod is good in non cast builds

Some added damage with little downside

In case builds you want to use your casts not leave them on the grounds

[narrow pike]

Well, if it occasionally procs while the Bloodstones are being succed in, then it does more than zero, hence the question above

[random tapir]

Artemis legendary sure you want it, you'll almost never get it though

Other boons also do more than zero

[narrow pike]

It's up against Pressure Points Epic which is a surefire pick

[random tapir]

Yes

[narrow pike]

But I still want to know if it would work

[vagrant crane]

the solution is to not have gr

[random tapir]

Lightning rod makes it so that there is no succ basically

You have to run over the stone

[narrow pike]

Even with Hermes Legendary?

Don't think I've had them together before

[vagrant crane]

why do you have that in the first place though

[narrow pike]

Why wouldn't I? It's very nice for Hunting Blades

[vagrant crane]

waste of hermes on slicing

[narrow pike]

It greatly reduces the downtime

[vagrant crane]

you'd much rather have rd or dashes

[random tapir]

I'm not sure

But yeah this is all pretty pointless

[narrow pike]

I don't run around chasing my vortexes, they're often away

[random tapir]

You'll get almost no lightning procs

[vagrant crane]

just take rod and try it

[warm snow]

rod is immense damage but weird for caspects

[random tapir]

Yeah may as eell

[narrow pike]

Won't be able to tell really

Eh well, maybe find out another time

[warm snow]

hermes legendary is just unreliable to get

like arty lego

wasted prereqs

[proper furnace]

doesn't help that is a base 1% chance without legacy

[narrow pike]

In this case, I had Gods' Legacy and Chaos rarity boost, and managed to get Eurydice's nectar before second Hermes. At this point if I have at least two rarity boosts I feel pretty comfortable rolling twice for Flurry Cast on first Hermes, if I'm likely to also get second Hermes in Region 2, because of this exact situation. Still no guarantee you get the Legendary, but under the right conditions, it feels like maybe every second Hunting Blades run, or third

Not entirely sure

[tight basin]

ngl on plume i saw it way more than i feel like i should've lmao

like statistically through my zag sword plume runs it probably was 1% but like

i was surprised lmao

maybe a few times i had favor but i dont really remember

[lean hornet]

Is heroic || Hades Aid || theoretically possible with rare crop/ euridyce?

[proper furnace]

no

[lean hornet]

Awww

That would have been cool

[proper furnace]

if you want instant call just pick up the athena boon

[vagrant crane]

ive heard you can upgrade it from lower level to epic though

[proper furnace]

which I forgot it's name

[warm snow]

proud bearing

[proper furnace]

ty

[lean hornet]

Doing zag sword for my 100th clear what’s a good build

[tight basin]

zag sword kinda sucks so just ME lmao

you could do zag sword plume but you really need to get rush delivery

[vagrant crane]

have you tried

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/1119094246142660608/image.png

[lean hornet]

Not on sword

Alr on a run

Arte attack and Aphro special

[narrow pike]

Just realizing: Region 2 can spawn 2 midshops?

Not exactly a "builds" question but more like "routing" question

[lucid oar]

it can’t

[narrow pike]

Hmm strange because I got a shop door immediately after entering Region 2, but isn't there supposed to be an actual "mid" shop after that 🤔