I haven't tried it yet
#h1-builds-and-combat
proper furnace
You can't re-equip keepsakes
proper furnace
And you lose the bonus when unequipped
random tapir
you could, e.g. force zeus/aphro at the start
and then use plume from asmo
or use plume from elysium even
ah apparently it's a lot harder to get plume bonuses in elysium though (not surprisingly)
proper furnace
Can't say of experience cuz if I run plume I do it from tart
Sometimes ely is fine, sometimes is not because you don't have a build at all
random tapir
i'll have to mess around I guess
if they both end up around 30% or so, or plume being a bit higher then maybe it's still better to go the smair route
I mean with smair the 30% dodge chance you can usually get full uptime is just part of the benefit, the main point is that you actually get to call every 5 seconds
round umbra
Assuming you get that hermes buff is a big assumption
Much more reliable to get 30% plume dodge
Well, 25ish in my case, but still
You can also end up with very frequent calls without smair if you have enough lightning
normal ocean
Going for Beowulf trippy shot, should I go internal or Stygian soul?
round umbra
I would say styg
It's nice not having to pick up casts and if you get one more your e basically putting them out at the same frequency.
tight basin
Trippy beo needs stygian
worn solar
just pray for chaos casts
round umbra
Gonna need that hour glass in ely
random tapir
Assuming you get that hermes buff is a big assumption
idk about big, with two shots and being willing to spend two of your rerolls it's relatively likely. but definitely not guaranteed, as I just learned 🙂
it's all trade-offs. If you run plume from the start you also have way less control over your build and you can easily end up with something totally borked (at least I can)
I just tried this setup and it was one of those runs where the RNG wasn't giving me any breaks
out of curiosity, boons that give you anything up front, cannot be sold I guess?
I was forced to sell my aphro strike at the end of tartarus 🤦♂️
I took the dio boon that gives you one nectar, and a bonus each time you get nectar
random tapir
yeah I was just caught off guard, because it has an ongoing benefit
the pos one that's purely one time, I would have expected it
plain junco
Does nemesis crit chance only affect normal attack? What about dash attack?
wintry portal
3m30 with this build
with zag shield is a bit rare for me to be this late normaly, dont remember last time I got out of tart after 3 min
wintry portal
btw dont take aph core
BLOOD AND DARKNESS
I keep forgeting about this 
I dont remember what the other door option was, but the boon only had cores for me
I sold the aphro :D
vagrant crane
roll for life aff or dying lament
valid dagger
gamble
wintry portal
btw, in this situation, I still go for artemis keepsake in aspho, right?
wintry portal
kiss
darkness
nemesis (
) crest
vagrant crane
id just go hourglass
wintry portal
is it to much of a gamble to go for arty legendary?
vagrant crane
yes
valid dagger
Yes
wintry portal
valid dagger
if it happens it happens
Try to sell the special
The umpommable argument is pretty valid so yea maybe just stick to coin purse or something
wintry portal
I sold it
wintry portal
will go purse then glass then
thx 🫡
tight basin
ngl would've sold call too if possible lmao
wintry portal
3m30 with this build
with zag shield is a bit rare for me to be this late normal...
but back to the initial question
seeing this performance, for someone who just wants to get a sub10 with all weapons
is not that crazy to try with zag shield instead of beo, right?
vagrant crane
well
valid dagger
It's fair. Cast weapons can be very punishing and are not that intuitive
But if you stick to it there is no comparison obviously
wintry portal
ngl would've sold call too if possible lmao
but call deals dmg 
tight basin
only at full call and you're not doing that much on beo
vagrant crane
not as much as dad call
tight basin
and yeah dad call does more
tight basin
only at full call and you're not doing that much on beo
for artemis and aprho at least
tight basin
but back to the initial question
seeing this performance, for someone who just ...
cast weapons do be kinda hard but they're really strong
if you like zag shield better then that's fine, go for it
a lot simpler since you dont have to think about cast management
wintry portal
I got rush delivery on second chamber in aspho 💀
comum, but still, this run is trying to say something
but ok folks, I will sell the call if the oportunity shows up
vagrant crane
but also on zag shield you need the hammer
random tapir
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B7qCbSaBgREflZ3Wm_5vXf95f8RLHwav-KbjUJifY0k/...
Just curious why is flood flare a better start than hunter flare
random tapir
The damage is barely different isn't it at level 1
tight basin
10% crit chance kinda sucks
random tapir
55 vs 60
vagrant crane
yeah but arty has awful pom scaling
tight basin
well it is more
random tapir
But yeah if the pom scaling is different
tight basin
but yeah pom scaling is the bigger issue
vagrant crane
2 levels in flood flare doubles the damage
random tapir
Yeah but 10 percent crit chance would be worth 55 vs 60
vagrant crane
also pos atk and dash are bad so you need the special
random tapir
But not the pom scaling
vagrant crane
the aoe is also a factor
random tapir
Pos dash is bad?
random tapir
Interesting
tight basin
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007734863186624562/1079329575475085373/output.png?width=800&height=600
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007734863186624562/1120415693708464230/output.png?width=800&height=600
poseidon dash on beowulf and hera aren't great because it messes with grouping
it's more okay on beo than hera but most players dont take it
random tapir
Hm it's hard to tell without seeing numbers but it's not obvious to me from the graph that the scaling is different
tight basin
here's a hunter's flare run
tight basin
Hm it's hard to tell without seeing numbers but it's not obvious to me from the ...
use the numbers on the left
random tapir
Yeah I mean I cant tell exactly what it's supposed to correspond to
tight basin
lvl 5 common flood is 150, lvl 5 common hunters is ~135
tight basin
Yeah I mean I cant tell exactly what it's supposed to correspond to
wdym
random tapir
I mean that following an imaginary line left from a dot and then estimating how far it is between two points isn't precise
random tapir
my estimate from this would be that they scale roughly the same
tight basin
lvl 5 common flood is 150, lvl 5 common hunters is ~135
they're not considering this
just estimate the corresponding numbers and you'll see the difference
random tapir
yeah, the aoe seems like the main thing.
well, 10% crit is a 20% dps boost. Not completely consistent obviously, but still substantial
tight basin
also deadly strike is actually good on beo
tight basin
if you take hunters flare then the pos core would be useless
you dont want tdash, pos attack sucks, and you dont use the special
and you save call for dad call
random tapir
right, that's fair
I didn't realize dash was bad here since usually poseidon dash is considered good
tight basin
it's good for stuff that don't rely on enemy grouping too much and need the damage to burst down faster
beo and hera don't really have that issue since they (generally) one shot everything
random tapir
i guess if you want to sacrifice conssitency you could do aphro on beowful, as it's both more damage and it inflicts weak which is pretty awesome
tight basin
sword, rail, and other bows dont really have the one shot potential other than like hestia
but that still takes tidal for aoe
random tapir
but that will make it a lot harder to hit mirage
yeah, true
with a maxed mirror this setup is probably pretty consistent to land
tight basin
very much so yeah
random tapir
when doing this stuff somehow the most irritating is when you don't get that first boon
tight basin
a couple runners did 50 beo runs in a row without reset and they got mirage shot the majority of the time, even gods' pride
warm snow
flood flare goes through walls a bit right
random tapir
like, you take poseidon keepsake, get poseidon, but the cast doesn't show up
tight basin
i think out of 50 they didn't get it like 7 or so times?
tight basin
flood flare goes through walls a bit right
yeah
proper furnace
like, you take poseidon keepsake, get poseidon, but the cast doesn't show up
Get vorime'd
random tapir
where would beowful be if not for the mirage bug
warm snow
still pretty good
random tapir
yeah, that's what I figured
proper furnace
Is still hera but safe yeah
tight basin
hera but with pstatus probably
random tapir
it's kind of still a hera bow but you can block and casts drop instantly
wintry portal
left aspho with 6min and 1
left ely like this;
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/877038707583107092/1134595510343319704/image.png
Im never playing speeds with beo again
👍
tight basin
lmfao
to be fair
you dont have charged shot
lvl 3 flare def not helping out either
vagrant crane
a couple runners did 50 beo runs in a row without reset and they got mirage shot...
you also dont necessarily need mirage 
random tapir
you dont want tdash, pos attack sucks, and you dont use the special
if you don't use the special that's fine though?
tight basin
and also bad rooms are kinda just bad rooms
tight basin
if you don't use the special that's fine though?
well it's still a useless boon other than to open the duo
it's fine but like
vagrant crane
random tapir
you'll probably end up filling the special anyway though
tight basin
if you just used flood flare you can use deadly strike lmao
random tapir
not filling the special will reduce your chances of getting the duo
vagrant crane
you'll probably end up filling the special anyway though
not usually
proper furnace
will mess with pom choices
tight basin
you also dont necessarily need mirage <:dusa:522248771409543188>
i mean yeah some people dont need it lmao
random tapir
it'll mess with pom choices but not filling it will reduce your mirage chances
tight basin
not filling the special will reduce your chances of getting the duo
most people get the duo before filling out the cores
wintry portal
and also bad rooms are kinda just bad rooms
the only skulls tart rooms LOVE me, is unreal
vagrant crane
6 stones no mirage = 3 stones with mirage
vagrant crane
it'll mess with pom choices but not filling it will reduce your mirage chances
well you never fill dash
so it's pointless to take a special to fill cores
the only dash you take on beo is ddash
random tapir
the guide you just linked even says you should fill in all the core boons
vagrant crane
idkman
tight basin
i mean yeah but your priority is still mirage shot
random tapir
yeah, of course
vagrant crane
guide kinda old tho
tight basin
if you dont get mirage shot after a roll you either take a core or take something worthwhile
vagrant crane
it says to choose between mistral dash or rav will on your own
thats 2021 strats probably
tight basin
yeah lmao
random tapir
idk, if you don't fill in special and dash, then every single time you open an artemis/poseidon boon
they will offer either dash or special (might even offer both)
vagrant crane
yeah but you just hit mirage anyways
random tapir
so you're cutting your chances of seeing the duo, afaiu
tight basin
on the other hand you dont want tdash and poseidon has better things like wave pounding and shoals
from artemis you'd want hunter's mark and/or pressure points
vagrant crane
pp and support fire
tight basin
the only usable dash is ddash to not open duos and special is just whatever
random tapir
I think the simple reason poseidon cast is used is just because it's vastly more consistent since you're guaranteed to get poseidon in your god pool.
vagrant crane
well yeah
warm snow
what
random tapir
If you go for a build that hard requires 3 gods you're obviously much less likely to make it
vagrant crane
that and it's better than hunter flare
random tapir
right
wintry portal
pp and support fire <:dusa:522248771409543188><:dusa:522248771409543188><:dusa:5...
SUPPORT FIRE MENTIONED LESGOOOOO
random tapir
hera seems to use aphrodite often since hera doesn't care as much about mirage
warm snow
from artemis you'd want hunter's mark and/or pressure points
erm, fully loaded?
vagrant crane
fakely loaded
tight basin
imagine getting fully loaded but not mirage shot lmfao
mirage shot will always be better
random tapir
i know there's gonna be rng etc in these games but I feel like having another mitigation system that helped with legendaries would have been good
duos are so much more realistic to build around than legendaries
warm snow
and generally better
random tapir
yeah. I mean it doesn't seem like they realized that legendaries will be way harder to get, and made them way more powerful. There's good ones, there's bad ones, kinda like duos
wintry portal
idk, I get fully loaded quite frequently, maybe is a skill issue or some
>says as she fails to use beo once again
random tapir
i guess if you really want to do a build for a legendary you could use fated authority
worn solar
when splitting bolt makes em4 dad with zeus shield harder 
tight basin
lmfao
warm snow
there's more duos thus more of them are usable
random tapir
well, yeah, but also duos are way way easier to get because of how various things work
vagrant crane
good thing most legos are useless
random tapir
the odds are biased for duos and against legendaries (even if you'r egoing for a specific one of each) in multiple different ways
worn solar
authority strats real https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/909262776923480104/Hades_11_13_2021_5_38_00_PM.png
random tapir
yeah, I mean fated authority to go all out zeus kinda makes sense to me
worn solar
think it was chaos
tight basin
lmfao
worn solar
with no uc
tight basin
oh based
random tapir
but the fated authority rules seem really weird
worn solar
random tapir
like, the gods are in separate pools or something like that?
So if you FA a room that has a boon for one god, you can't actually get all the other gods, only some of them
worn solar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/909262132074410014/unknown.png gigabrain strats
tight basin
nice poms
vagrant crane
nice zeus shield buld
random tapir
going all out on aphrodite, the way people sometimes do on Zeus, seems like it would be fun
1/6 chance to charm... you can put aphro on something you normally wouldn't
e.g. Rama special
can probably just have everything locked down
valid dagger
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/909262132074410014/u...
that is so good
I probably saw it before
but it looks even gooder now
because its cshot
past hornet
Why can’t I use my companion in hades fight?
fleet glacier
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/909262132074410014/u...
does the lightings stack if you shotgun using chaos?
tight basin
No
Internal cooldown
You'll only get one bolt from the special but you'll still get the splitting and jolted effects
Point blanking it is still the best usecase for it tho
round umbra
Cool down is per enemy so you could get a bunch of not point blanking but yeah
proven osprey
You're asking an employee to attack their boss
Doesn't seem that bad of an idea
coarse lodge
Why can’t I use my companion in hades fight?
at some point you'll get permission to use them against Hades 👀
compact wedge
its my first time trying a crystal cast run with Demeter and I got the Artemis dash strike Ares special and Demeter cast and now I already got the tracking duo boon in Tartarus what should I go for now to make the build as broken as possible? Arthur aspect btw
valid dagger
If you want to actually make it broken, just try it again in another run with a different aspect because Arthur is not it. Achilles is what you're looking at
compact wedge
i just took arthur for more defence but your right im still gonna play it out since i got the boon duo so early
compact wedge
Mirage shot (Artemis + Poseidon duo)
thanks
lime lintel
I got zeus special on zeus shield, what else do i pick?
valid dagger
I got zeus special on zeus shield, what else do i pick?
Try to find more Zeus. Ideally you'll want Jolted, if you see more you can go for Call/Double Strike
compact wedge
i got the other good duo and melted hades nice i will do it with achiles next time tho
wintry portal
What keepsake should I go for here?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/877038707583107092/1135234903257133126/image.png
Did I messed up takin this pool of gods? 
wintry portal
instructions unclear
picked aphro to aspho and dio to ely 🫡
||/j||
vagrant crane
parting shot is most of the time a duo you opened accidentally and want 0%
it's good on hera with shadow presence and otherwise very nothing
tight basin
hera with shadow presence and phalanx shot
random sequoia
Hera?
tight basin
if you open it up with crush shot on accident you dont really aim to backstab it just sorta happens
random sequoia
Ooh, ok
wintry portal
does anyone here have a unmodded sword speed run that I can watch?
something that isnt god level of play, pls 😅
vagrant crane
sadly there are no unmodded players and even more no sword unmodded players
can watch a swowo i guess
strange lark
you can watch this i guess
but its not really optimal because i start with shackle
vagrant crane
swowo is gonna have meh rng and good play
strange lark
regular speedruns should just go with ME
wintry portal
swowo is gonna have meh rng and good play
oh, exactly what I want !
thx
vagrant crane
oh my god
wintry portal
https://youtu.be/aS7DGjqtAvI
gona watch it 🫡
vagrant crane
https://www.speedrun.com/hades?h=OwO-Sword-Unmodded&x=w20xnq52-dloy46m8.zqopkv21-jlzre7x8.5lmy9p0l
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdzWPomoN3Q
strange lark
coke
vagrant crane
ancient tomes (february 2022)
wintry portal
https://youtu.be/aS7DGjqtAvI
the hard roll on chaos thrown me off a lil
steep grotto
What’s a good aspect for sword if u cant lvl it up immediately?
runic plinth
Which cast is the best for Hera?
lean hornet
Does the bonus cast range boon she has do anything on hera?
worn solar
Does the bonus cast range boon she has do anything on hera?
yeah it makes it impossible to hit anything
tidal vault
Since the game likes to force 4 core boons and 4 gods on you, which one is better for manipulating duo rng; getting those out of the way ASAP or trying to stick with only the prereqs?
valid dagger
Since the game likes to force 4 core boons and 4 gods on you, which one is bette...
Sticking with the prereqs is always better. But you should try to fill your god pool asap
tidal vault
So grab gods, avoid core boons, gotcha. Thanks.
tidal vault
From what I noticed, whenever the game offers a duo, if I'm eligible for at least two of them, then both show up all at once (God's Legacy must be funky or something).
Is it so important to eliminate other duos from the pool?
valid dagger
From what I noticed, whenever the game offers a duo, if I'm eligible for at leas...
Yea that's basically what I'm saying. If you want to get a duo consistently then the most important step is to be only eligible for that Duo
compact wedge
whats the better cast mirror upgrade for a crystal cast build
tidal vault
Glacial glare: if looks could kill...
compact wedge
oh ok guess i was using the wrong one and another thing after you use the Achilles rush and cast all the damage in the duration of the cast increases right? (for the demter one)
proper furnace
Yeah
round umbra
oh ok guess i was using the wrong one and another thing after you use the Achil...
Infernal soul can still work and is arguably safer. Styg achilles crystals with high glare and extra stones is a dream, though
compact wedge
Infernal soul can still work and is arguably safer. Styg achilles crystals with ...
oh ok
round umbra
Easier start with infernal, but easier start isn't the reason to do crystals
proper furnace
Meme beams are called that for a reason
round umbra
Achilles boosted attack should be enough for early
What's the reason? I still don't get it
compact wedge
Easier start with infernal, but easier start isn't the reason to do crystals
no from what i know the boost is also for the cast so you rush then cast for more damage
round umbra
Boos?
compact wedge
yes
proper furnace
yes
What deranger meant is that at the start of a run, Dem cast is bad
So you instead use the bonus for your attack until the build is set up
compact wedge
oh ok
proper furnace
Attack + a decent dash can carry you for like the first two biomes, way easier if you get flurry jab
random tapir
For me infernal stygian isn't so much the easier start, it's just the consistency. There's no guarantee of landing extra casts
And you may not want to use all your rerolls on chaos when you also have lots of other boons that are must hit
proper furnace
The only reason for doing stygian beams for me is because if I wanted to do infernal I'll just do hunting blades instead lol
And is also infinitely funnier if you manage to get glaciar glare and pom
random tapir
That's true
Having tried both with infernal hunting blades seems stronger and easier to set up
random tapir
as an addendum to above, dark thirst came up on spear, I ran achilles and went for hunting blades. pretty crazy
I even got the ares legendary
and one extra cast
round umbra
Extra cast on dem :👀
No feeling better than having 16 beams on dad at once
Glacial scaling is kind of crazy
Just hard to pick it up early enough
torpid plaza
If i go into heat, without having beaten a boss without heat, i dont get those rewards right
so iahve to finish a no heat run with every weapon first
proper furnace
so iahve to finish a no heat run with every weapon first
you can actually skip 0 heat and start using the pact right away
if you get the bounties for 20 heat but still haven't done a run with no heat the pact will mention it
so you won't miss it
torpid plaza
so i should probably just do heat since it powers me up and do the 0 heat one when its just free anyway
understood
proper furnace
I mean if you want more blood right now might as well do 0
random tapir
fwiw, (and this probably isn't uncommon), when I first beat the boss, I had the first 3 bosses beaten on every other weapon
So at that point, if you're using another weapon, you may as well just fight on heat 1 because a) you get to unlock new bounties for the first 3 bosses, b) it's not any harder, c) it will unlock bounties for heat 2
heat 0 is kind of weird like that
until you have enough heat that it's actually making the game noticably harder, there's not much point to going back to heat 0, once you get your first escape.
I'm at heat 3-6 depending on weapon and I don't have the final bounty for heat 0 on any weapon other than shield
fleet glacier
spear basically has the wrost kit
fleet glacier
hammer reliant weapon
still mid then
tight basin
well achilles and guan yu become top tier or at least top 75%
guan yu is like below mid without charged skewer
achilles is mid without hammers since you still have a 150% cast damage boost
it's still strong but just less smooth and fun to play without flurry jab
fleet glacier
achilles is mid without hammers since you still have a 150% cast damage boost
base attack is still very very low
tight basin
it still cleans up tartarus and asphodel really easily
falls off in elysium
that's where the cast build comes in
fleet glacier
that's where the cast build comes in
rather have beo tho and wouldn’t the cast achillies be really unpractical against bosses?
tight basin
not really
hunting blades makes it easy
lightning phalanx trivializes the heroes
but even on single target bosses, phalanx shot has a really high base damage so it'll be a massive chunk
(also beo is just better than achilles lmao)
but some people dont like beo and would rather play achilles lmao
or need to get spear bounties done or something
fleet glacier
hunting blades makes it easy
takes some time to get da duo boon tho also would the 3 casts be better for it?
tight basin
yeah 3 casts are better, for burst
tight basin
takes some time to get da duo boon tho also would the 3 casts be better for it?
also beo relies on mirage shot duo lmao
you really only need hunting blades or lightning phalanx (and for beo, mirage shot) before hydra fight (if you want to go fast) so you do have some time
fleet glacier
also beo relies on mirage shot duo lmao
its mostly decent before that
tight basin
so is achilles
achilles doesn't really need the duo until elysium, kinda similar to beo
it's just that achilles falls apart a bit more than beo without the duo in ely
also achilles has a faster front half than beowulf
i think
generally/statistically speaking
yeah achilles has a better front half than beo
on average
pretty large sample size disparity between the aspects but i dont think it matters too much lmao
fleet glacier
also achilles has a faster front half than beowulf
you would need a lot to top a decent trippy beo build lol
tight basin
flood beo is faster than trippy
nearly all of those 1555 beo runs are flood
prob a few trippy or passion or whatever
but a vast majority is flood
i mean it's also player dependent anyways
i'm (probably) faster on beo front half than achilles front half because i have a couple hundred more runs on beo than achilles
also no one really runs trippy because of how inconsistent and greedy it is, just a lot harder to get going consistently
vagrant crane
i believe there remains one (1) trippy soldier
tight basin
technically speaking, a perfect trippy build is stronger than a perfect flood build
the issue is that a perfect trippy build happens much more rarely than a perfect flood build
nalei right?
vagrant crane
who has been incapacitated for the past long time with arthur grind
tight basin
yeah lmao
also what defines a decent trippy beo build lmao just wondering
i'm assuming just good poms and no mirage shot
is that like +1 cast too
idk
depending on the achilles build trippy beo can get outpaced
fleet glacier
flood beo is faster than trippy
trippy should still be mostly better boss fight right? its the satisfaction for me lol a decent flood build does like what 600 per cast?
tight basin
i think technically trippy has better boss fights?
because i dont think it needs mirage for fat damage
tight basin
for lernie it does yeah
but like say we just slap rd on it
it's probably enough to instaphase hades
with good poms ofc
might be better than flood in that sense
tight basin
trippy prob has a better furies assuming not tis
tight basin
you also need stones
yeah
fleet glacier
trippy prob has a better furies assuming not tis
tis is the hardest right? shes da one with spinners?
tight basin
tis just has the largest health pool
and most health between phases
so just a slower fight
and can't instaphase
or less likely rather
vagrant crane
and also longer phase time
fleet glacier
a good flood build does like 2000ish damage right?
fleet glacier
a good flood build does 6000ish
how many cast you assuming?
fleet glacier
a good flood build does 6000ish
also assuming well buffs?
fleet glacier
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1136137978415165620/i...
nowhat about chaos cast damage boast?
fleet glacier
k
dusk parcel
vagrant crane
arty works
runic plinth
I am playing with Demeter Fists, and Chaos is offering me FLayed Strike. Common. Would you take it?
runic plinth
the other 2 suck worse.
vagrant crane
it's like 4 damage per attack
tight basin
if the other ones are also useless then yeah lmao
runic plinth
I dunno what to pick
tight basin
what are the other choices
runic plinth
I mean the drawbacks
tight basin
flayed is take more damage? idk
vagrant crane
i guess you take the flayed
tight basin
but i'd take that anyways
vagrant crane
flayed is on special
tight basin
oh
vagrant crane
-hp per special
runic plinth
yes
vagrant crane
id take slothful
tight basin
well that might suck with dem fists
runic plinth
which sucks
runic plinth
49%...
vagrant crane
it's fine
tight basin
if you special like twice per room it's fine
runic plinth
For me it;s not "only"
vagrant crane
well i assume if they're on dem theyd be at least somewhat experienced with it
vagrant crane
since dem hard
vagrant crane
fists hard
you either gotta reset for ME or have bad damage and its the most melee melee weapon ever invented
runic plinth
I remember I could post screenshots here somehow back in the day
vagrant crane
post link
runic plinth
Yeah I am dead
tight basin
you either gotta reset for ME or have bad damage and its the most melee melee we...
zap fists exists
has fine damage
vagrant crane
ehhhhh
runic plinth
I wonder what other weapon would be better for 32 heat
vagrant crane
u need splash
tight basin
shield, rail, or bow
tight basin
that doesnt really matter here
the idea here is clearing 32 heat
other builds exist lmao
torpid plaza
I wonder if I can read the whole build guide that is pinned while at work
fleet glacier
is arthur usable?
valid dagger
is arthur usable?
It's pretty good for casual play. It only becomes unusable if you're pushing very low times for speedrunning or very high heat (around 45+)
flint ember
which hammers would you want for bow with aspect of chiron
proper furnace
Concentrated volley and relentless volley
tight basin
Conc volley better if your Chiron is lvl 4+
outer sonnet
Yeah
tight basin
Otherwise you'd want relentless first
outer sonnet
My Chiron is only lvl 4
I only have like
60 hours
I need more titan blood
All my stuff is so low level
flint ember
i already got conc volley but my other hammer didn't give me relentless volley
explosive sniper or flurry shot
which to take?
flint ember
My Chiron is only lvl 4
^
outer sonnet
Sniper
flint ember
alr ty
flint ember
i was thinking the same
tight basin
Sniper shot sucks lmao
Flurry would've been better
Your main damage source is the special anyways
Not having to charge means you'll be able to special sooner
narrow pike
Question about Dionysus and Hangover. The pinned guide mentions that different sources of Hangover overwrite each other, which means you want exactly one source of Hangover, with as many poms as practical. So for example if you take Dionysus Attack, his Dash really leads to a DPS loss? It becomes important to avoid that?
proper furnace
Yeah it becomes a huge dps loss as you said
If your hangover attack is like 15 per stack you don't want to apply your 2 dmg hangover
narrow pike
Hmm what a design blunder. He needed another effect like Ares to avoid conflicts between attack and dash, or automatically pick the highest damage Hangover...
random tapir
yeah
the logical way to do it is that the dash hangover would apply an effect, but wouldn't cancel the higher damage one. Each tick, you pick the highest one that's still active.
So if you apply a higher damage one, then a couple seconds later the dash, the higher damage one continues till it runs out, and then you get some procs from the dash
that said it wouldn't really change the fact that it's a waste. It would just not make it actively negative to have two sources.
proper furnace
Iirc doom does exactky that so,
fleet glacier
best heat for speedrun?
narrow pike
Anyone has a clue if multiple Chaos rarity boons stack their hidden Legendary/Duo bonus?
Assuming it's possible to get multiple
vagrant crane
yes
vagrant crane
had it before
narrow pike
So you only meant the "can get" part
vagrant crane
?
no the rarity also stacks
it's kinda obscene
you can roll over a screen of 2 duos into another
but yeah it stacks
narrow pike
Good to know
random tapir
is that boon considered super strong
vagrant crane
which
random tapir
chaos rarity boons
round umbra
Hard to boost cast damage usually
random tapir
I've taken it before but usually if I have a direct damage bonus that benefits my build I prefer that
vagrant crane
well
it's a good fallback
you usually prefer to get something else that directly adds to your damage
but favor is also nice
for hermes rarity and duo chances
it's basically the best chaos boon on non demeter fists
since the other boosts are a lot less impactful
round umbra
Health isn't bad
tight basin
True
tight basin
Health isn't bad
Doesn't add to damage tho
round umbra
Money
tight basin
But like that's pretty universal
Like if you don't get what you want then those are fall backs
vagrant crane
money and health are like the "i just dont wanna reset after rolling down this aspho chaos"
round umbra
Doesn't add to damage tho
you got me there but it does with high confidence because hard
tight basin
Lmao true
narrow pike
I take it back, Hunting Blades is great and it does instaphase the last boss
But putting it together and getting additional ammo for that 4th cast makes me nervous
round umbra
Extra cast is less essential than on styg beams I'd say. Does make resetting Achilles easier though. I just always die when releasing blades.
tight basin
Apparently Achilles doesn't exactly want more casts
Because the casts don't come out instantly like beo or hera
You'd rather have like cast% or attack%
Extra cast is still good ofc
narrow pike
I think I'd rather have 1 more ammo than another 40% cast damage
tight basin
Just not a priority
40% is common so fair lmao
Makes cleaning up faster tho
Time between casts can be annoying
narrow pike
True, was looking for Flurry Cast this entire run but Hermes was obstinate and only gave it in Styx
random tapir
that's kind of the nice thing but also kind of the boring thing about hunting blades/achilles
it doesn't need that many boons, then it just works and it's probably a given that you escape
but it doesn't scale in nearly as crazy ways
tight basin
If you have flurry Achilles you forget dash iframes exist and hold down the attack lmao
random tapir
whereas if you go stygian and beams you might have the silliest run ever with 20 beams out or you might just fail the run completely
round umbra
but it doesn't scale in nearly as crazy ways
Scales pretty frucken well with poms
random tapir
yeah, they both scale with poms. but with beams you can also pom two things; if you're running stygian then pomming the duration boon is also increasing how many beams you can have out
round umbra
Blades definitely doesn't feel.consistent to me yet lol
random tapir
I mean hunting blades also gets crazy don't get me wrong
round umbra
Yeah, glacial glare poms are super nice
random tapir
well, hunting blades is just a duo, that's it. If you hit the duo, you're done, everything else is gravy, but you'll win the round.
beams, you need glacial glare at a minimum, on top of the duo.
And if you just run infernal and get the duo + glacial glare it's IMHO noticably weaker than hunting blades
(but it is pretty safe so you'll probably complete the run)
random tapir
Blades definitely doesn't feel.consistent to me yet lol
I guess consistent is relative, but if you have a few rerolls it should be pretty good. Like, most of your runs you'll be able to get slicing shot as your very first boon. And then you can basically guarantee Artemis by the start of tartarus. So you're going to have many cracks (especially including rerolls) at getting the duo.
round umbra
And if you just run infernal and get the duo + glacial glare it's IMHO noticably...
Yeah, this is probably more a comparison of infernal vs styg
Like, I get what you're saying about glacial
random tapir
well, not exactly. Beams has a lot more affinity with styg.
round umbra
Really because of glacial
random tapir
Well, it's just a question of duration
tight basin
beams, you need glacial glare at a minimum, on top of the duo.
This is big ME energy right here lmao
random tapir
the longer something lasts, the longer till you get the stone back, the more appealing stygian is
tight basin
Except that you also kinda need impending
random tapir
idk depends how you define need
if you're speedrunning then sure. If you want to easily complete the run, I don't think you need it.
you'll still just be doing piles of damage
tight basin
Glare is probably like super nice on beams but idk how necessary it is considering I've never used meme beams
random tapir
athena dash you kidna need (depending on weapon)
vagrant crane
idk man as
tight basin
All melee except Zeus shield lmao
random tapir
yeah pretty much 🙂
tight basin
I'd say glare is like highly recommended and if you don't get it it's just sad lmao
random tapir
I mean, if you run meme beans with infernal, and don't get glare, i.e. you just get the duo, and beyond that it's just standard pomming.
i.e. the equivalent of what you really "need" on hunting blades
round umbra
Glare is probably like super nice on beams but idk how necessary it is consideri...
I've considered taking glare over clarity to get some poms on it and hope for clarity later.
random tapir
then it's going to be substantially worse than hunting blades
round umbra
Also beat with beams without glare but
tight basin
I guess technically you have a better chance of clarity than glare later
I think
Something something duos roll first
round umbra
Early glare has largely eluded me
tight basin
And considering it's a large boon pool, a 10-12% chance of a duo is probably more likely
random tapir
at least, glare is more important when you'r erunning stygian
because with stygian duration translates directly to damage
random tapir
i did a meme beam run where I got everything I needed, except it was stygian, and I didn't get a cast all game
except in styx, I finally decided to do an extra path, after I had the sack, hoping for a store. And I did actually get a store with a prometheus stone.
So at least I had two casts.
random tapir
yeah, I mean with beams stygian two casts is better than 3 on infernal, at least in theory. In practice sometimes it's a lot more convenient to dump all the beams at once.
Still it was an annoying run because most of the time it was a cast build whose cast didn't come online
round umbra
with glare 2 styg is better than 4 with infernal
random tapir
yeah, certainly in principle. The difference is that with styg, you gotta cast every 1.5 seconds, otherwise you're losing damage
round umbra
artemis attack on achilles can handles a lot of stuff
random tapir
which means being in a good place to cast it
acoustic skiff
I've done beam build with 4 stygians and I didn't have time to do anything other than mash right click
round umbra
far away
random tapir
with infernal, like, once every 8-9 seconds or whatever it is, you just triple dump the beams and that's it
round umbra
nice easy poisitioning
acoustic skiff
16 crystals at a time is nice though
round umbra
^
random tapir
yeah. I mean the peak for beams is almost certainly higher than the peak for hutning blades.
it would be better if chaos was a little more reliable. Like, the way you're guaranteed two hammers, two hermes
with chaos it seems like there's no guarantees. I think I've even had 0, though that's rare. but 1 chaos boon isn't rare.
random tapir
hah
it's not ultra rare. If I had to guess maybe it's like 10% of my full runs, never seen chaos
compact wedge
what's a good build for Arthur I cant thing of what the defence would work with
vagrant crane
well
the best arthur build is using nem
but you can also just do aphrodite attack
compact wedge
better question whats a good build for Eris rail
vagrant crane
zeus attack
artemis/aphrodite special
tidal dash
static discharge
pom static discharge and tidal dash to at least lvl3 or 4
hammers to look out for are cluster bomb, rocket bomb, targeting system, delta chamber
probably some others
primary 2 are cluster and rocket though
compact wedge
and what duos are good for this
round umbra
What makes multiple sources of drunk bad? How do they stack exactly?
tight basin
Just uses the last applied
It overwrites basically
So if your attack does 10 and your dash does 3, there's a chance your 5 stacks of hangover only does 3 per instead of 10 per
round umbra
So if you have 5 stacks of dash-3 on them, and then hit them with an attack-10 it would increase damage?
Just, that's way less likely
Esp with how the call works
tight basin
Probably
lean hornet
I got three more aspects to max and then I’m free
But still need to do 32 heat on all 6 weapons
warm snow
do all 24 aspects :)
untold mauve
Only 8 more aspects need maxing, resource director and all the darkness needed for that
round umbra
Splitting black out Scintillating mirage with epic hyper delivery was pretty baller. Got 3 other duos too which didn't hurt.
I've decided I'm never turning customs on ever again
winter herald
64 heat Eris Rail special on clear when?
fleet glacier
64 heat Eris Rail special on clear when?
Depends on how many cheats you can use
winter herald
Depends on how many cheats you can use
I said this jokingly i don't expect this to be done any time soon
compact wedge
Im doing a slicing shot build with Achelis and I was offered by chaos 2 options one for +1 cast and second 33% damage which is the better option for this build
valid dagger
Im doing a slicing shot build with Achelis and I was offered by chaos 2 options ...
uhh not quite the Achilles pro but dmg seems better because Achilles lacks the burst that other weapons have and rushing + casting 4 times feels slow. You cant go wrong with either tho
narrow pike
If this is your first Chaos, I'd take the 4th cast for convenience so you don't have to reset your buff via attack
If you find Flurry Shot, they come out fast enough
compact wedge
ok thanks for the advice il do that from what you said it makes sense
valid dagger
understandable
compact wedge
if i take triple jab dose it cancel flurry jab or do they work toghether
acoustic skiff
they work together
compact wedge
nice sounds fun
acoustic skiff
you pretty much can't ever take anything that would cancel anything else, if there are things that are incompatible you cannot get one as long as you have the other
at least as far as hammers are concerned
narrow pike
IIRC boons don't prevent other boons from being taken, but you can take a boon that replaces another core boon and makes a bunch of other boons you have completely useless (e.g. #h1-high-heat-strategies message / https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/1136517162400501840/image.png)
narrow pike
Oh? Good to know
compact wedge
Rocket bomb cancels out the damage nerf from cluster bomb <:dusa:522248771409543...
I did not know that sounds very fun
acoustic skiff
does it always cancel that just by having both? or do you need to pick cluster first rocket second?
proper furnace
Always happens
acoustic skiff
ok
and is that intentional?
cause logically it would seem like if you take cluster afterwards it should reduce the damage
tight basin
Probably not intentional tbh
Even if it did work like it was supposed to it'd still be the best hammer combination lmao
compact wedge
yes just got vicious cycle so now i just need the tracking boon and mirage shot and it will be an amazing run
nooooo i died i coudent do it with out the tracking boon my run whhyy
narrow pike
Question: when you gain or lose %dmg buffs dynamically, does this affect previously-applied DoTs and other delayed damage on enemies? More specifically: Ares Doom on Special on Aspect of Eris: does gaining the buff increase the damage of the Doom applied by the same bomb?
Could test, but figured I'd ask first
proper furnace
Buffs are applied on hit so yeah dmg would change
Easiest example is eris hangover
Inflict the DoT, see dmg then buff yourself
Only exception I think is achilles spear?
Where your cast (beams/slicing) will stay buffed if you used them with a charge
round umbra
What's DoT?
narrow pike
damage over time
Hmm maybe Attack/Special/Cast damage buffs are applied when you perform the action, and global damage buff is checked when dealing damage to the enemy, every time?
round umbra
Where your cast (beams/slicing) will stay buffed if you used them with a charge
The cast doing more damage vs you doing more damage/the enemy taking more damage ig
narrow pike
Another question. Adamant Rail + Zeus Attack + Ricochet Fire. When you hit two enemies with one shot due to ricochet, does this proc Zeus Attack bonus damage twice, or only once due to internal cooldown? Hard for me to tell because it seems like there's an electric proc on two enemies, but the electric effect also has a small AoE by default, and/or bounces between enemies anyway, I'm not sure
random tapir
i don't think there's any cooldown for zeus attack
just for zeus special
well, I mean, for lightning bolts generally
but zeus attack is chain lightning, not lightning bolts
proper furnace
Chain lightning also has cooldown but it's like 0.15 iirc
random tapir
and lightning bolts are 0.2?
proper furnace
Yeah
random tapir
i wonder if lucifer attacks fast enough to break that cooldown
round umbra
I don't think chain lightning has a cooldown, only bolts (which I guess includes static)
I would be interested in knowing if the two chains from the same attack can bounce to the other's target or not.
acoustic skiff
does the cooldown affect all bolts, even like seastorm?
random tapir
My eris build went in a slightly different direction but I'm looking forward to doing tidal dash + sea storm on eris
with a handful of poms you're at 200 damage per dash, + jolted + rupture status
and possibly more than that against clusters of enemies because lightning bolts have aoe
afaik the timer doesn't protect enemies agains tthat
round umbra
yeah, think the timer is just how often bolts can be triggered on a singular foe
So electric super soaker isn't super crazy, just pretty crazy.
random tapir
yeah, I mean super soaker is also good (as I understand it) because it's really safe
the damage is good but also everything is pushed back half a mile from you
even enemies with armored
or, if there's a wall, then I guess you'll proc absolutely insane damage from that
For a continuous attack (i.e. not something bursty like charon special), even with the cooldown timer though it's pretty crazy damage.
30 damage every 0.2 seconds is 150 DPS
probably it still makes more sense to do super soaker on eris than lucifer
random tapir
hehe yeah, I know it's different
I was just thinking in terms of effectiveness
Eris will fire a little slower and have a little less range, but you'll get a 75% damage boost to all the lightning
hard to argue with that
narrow pike
Thinking about Sea Storm you say? Funny timing because here's my current run:
- Start Aspect of Poseidon
- Chamber 1 hammer
- Chamber 2 meta progress
- Chamber 3 Flood Shot
- Chamber 4 Zeus' Aid
- Chamber 5 Erebus Gate, Poseidon, Sea Storm
- Chamber 6 midshop Tidal Dash
With Gods' Pride, no less... 🤦♀️
round umbra
Zap
narrow pike
Elysium miniboss: any way to determine if Soul-Catcher or Minotaur is more likely? By chamber number, perhaps?
slow mirage
i went for a sea storm build yesterday. ended up getting all of the requirements and never got the duo. ended the run wiht like 5 boons from poseidon. i was so mad
also, twin shot on bow is literally the bane of my existence. i hate it so much
random tapir
you have the reroll ability from the mirror?
err that's one of the best hammers though 🙂
random tapir
just cleared with it but it was a struggle for sure
I really struggled with it when I got it on Rama on one of my first rama playthroughs
slow mirage
i was on chiron
random tapir
Because Rama is slower to charge to start with, especially
But you just need to play a little closer basically
Esp on Rama it was accepting that you can't always get those power shots off
I guess Chiron it's a bit tricky because possibly your special is the main damage source so slowing down your main attack is less worthwhile, idk
tight basin
also, twin shot on bow is literally the bane of my existence. i hate it so much
That's the best hammer on rama lmao
If you aren't already, try dash striking into your shots
It'll charge much faster
narrow pike
Does the Chaos Defiance boon affect Stubborn Defiance?
Like, you'd get 2 reusable points in it?
vagrant crane
it's like
it's the same between chaos and athena
you have one sd and one dd
after you expend the sd you can also use the dd
which refills to 50
but then it's gone
like a dd
the sd will refill next room
narrow pike
Oh, mix and match? Didn't expect that
Huh so it gives you 1 slot of DD, which you can sometimes refill via Well of Charon or Athena later, even if your Mirror has SD?
vagrant crane
idt you can refill with well
the way athena works is
if you pop sd before picking up the athena and you have a core
and take the dd refill
it gives you a dd just like the chaos one
worn solar
well it replenishes your spent sd that replenishes itself anyways
narrow pike
I thought Athena would just refill your empty SD which would be a waste
fleet glacier
what do you need to do to be able to use meg in dad fight?
round umbra
if you pop sd before picking up the athena and you have a core
Have to have a core?
vagrant crane
yea
round umbra
Is that just its prereqs?
round umbra
👍
narrow pike
Huh. Just found Heart Rend and rolled it over into Hunter's Mark. No regrets. Probably first time rejecting a duo like this.
For context, I'm using Rama with Aphrodite Attack and Artemis Special, so the goal is to proc Hunter's Mark with Special before using Attack (edit: this worked out excellently, crushed the Heroes and all later stuff too)
vagrant crane
you dont want juicy 20 damage crits????
narrow pike
⁉️
narrow pike
5 base, my Deadly Flourish is Epic, so it would go from 26.55 to 39.825
vagrant crane
massive...
narrow pike
Turns out maybe I should have kept Heart Rend, because it popped out twice more later on, preventing me from finding Support Fire. I have relatively few boons so there'd be a decent chance to sell it
(Chaos rarity boon + Gods' Legacy makes this happen)
round umbra
Selling is nice
random tapir
iirc, duos fight for the same slot, the way it works out. So if you want a certain duo, that shares a god with some other duo that you are offered
it's better to take that offered duo (if you're not rerolling) so that it's out of the pool
narrow pike
Hmm I wasn't going for any duos and had Gods' Legacy enabled by mistake, so I was just hoping it wouldn't show up again...
random tapir
well, if you aren't going for duos specifically then it doesn't really prevent you from finding support fire more than anything else would have
just rng
narrow pike
It took the slot that Support Fire likely would have gotten
But I'm still not sure if taking it would have been better (other than the sale factor)
random tapir
yes, that's just luck. If you'd picked the duo instead of whatever you did pick, then those things could have appeared in the slot "instead" of support fire
narrow pike
Totally fair point
Also I could never find Artemis again
Priority boons for your build always take priority
random tapir
yeah, it be like that sometimes
yeah. most of the "algorithm" for optimizing boon choice given a certain build you're targetting is pretty straightforward.
the hard one for me is understanding how to pick boons so that you don't open as many dependencies
this comes up a lot with shooting for duo's, apparently.
round umbra
I don't think support fire would have done a whole lot, even with rama special
Also could have eaten your hunter's mark if that was the strategy
round umbra
That makes sense
So counting support fire is a good way to count slightly faster than bolts.
I always feel like Chiron special gets 3, so 2 or 3 bolts there seems right.
narrow pike
I figured Support Fire wouldn't do much, but wanted to see in action. Didn't realize it could eat the mark though.
round umbra
Mark should probably mention it ends on a hit but eh
narrow pike
Kinda know that but still learning
random tapir
support fire also generates hunters marks, if you have pressure points. but probably not a good trade-off
random tapir
it's an interesting strategy, using artemis special to generate hunters marks and shooting them with regular attacks
yeah
round umbra
And like it requires control
random tapir
i mean I've done it with pressure points, essentially
but this makes it more reliable
round umbra
I've never changed my play style for hunter's mark. Just enjoyed it if it's there.
random tapir
I have run artemis attack on rama before though
round umbra
It's interesting on the bull and thes
random tapir
rama kind of has a unique interaction with hunter's mark, essentially.
proper furnace
I don't use hunter's mark well enough to appreciate it on rama
compact wedge
im doing a crystal build and i have to pick betwin glacial glare and cold confusin i dont have a primary zeuz boon only revenge jolt and the dash one i honestly dont know waht to pick
random tapir
if you're doing a crystal build why would you care about zeus?
vagrant crane
just take glare
compact wedge
ok
random tapir
yeah, glare is like a core part of that beam build
also dash is a primary (core) boon
oh you mean the other dash one
nm
compact wedge
already picked it another question hammer or demeter
proper furnace
Do you have the artemis duo open
compact wedge
i have it already
proper furnace
What wep is this
compact wedge
achelis
proper furnace
Do you have flurry jab? Not needed considering you have most of the build done
compact wedge
i have triple jab but no flurry
proper furnace
Other option is taking dem to take another core and open artic blast
compact wedge
i have arctic and all core boons
proper furnace
Oh
compact wedge
ye
compact wedge
Im indeed having the best crystal run ive had by far
time to melt hades like icecream
round umbra
Other option is taking dem to take another core and open artic blast
I'm not convinced Artic blast is worth losing the chill over.
The beams already do a ton of damage
compact wedge
you get the chill back very quick with a good build so its just extra damage
round umbra
Slow all the time instead of half the time
compact wedge
i just finished the run it was insane
round umbra
Beams is nice when it's nice. I'm mid run on it rn
compact wedge
ye mine turned out perfectly
round umbra
Extra stones are very nice. I'm going to see if I can make this run work without them.
random tapir
did you run stygian or infernal
round umbra
Styg going off #h1-victory-boasting
Are erebus rooms less likely to give duos like mini bosses?
proper furnace
yeah
same bonus rarity for rare and epic as mini bosses
and pretty sure you already know but just in case, also applies to expensive boons in styx
narrow pike
Question: is it possible to get Freezing Vortex (Demeter + Ares) with Hunting Blades?
random tapir
oh damn
didn't realize that
I rerolled an expensive styx boon twice in a recent run 😦
was trying to get lightning rod, or sea storm, something like that
proper furnace
yeah is not a massive difference
round umbra
Is there any boon like glacial glare where a pom gives significantly more than a rarity increase?
It's kinda wack
round umbra
For going fast on Achilles with flurry jab is it dash strike and get a free post stab or is it stand around holding stab or is it stand around pressing stab really fast? With rushes mixed in as close to every 4 I'm guessing
Serrated seems good for not needing to rush as often
round umbra
Why flurry jab then?
vagrant crane
because it adds in extra hits
round umbra
Extra prick or extra extra prick?
vagrant crane
the hits should be
dash strike added standing strike dash strike added standing strike
without a 5th one
round umbra
Cool
vagrant crane
you can tell you did a 5th cause it feels like you screwed up
round umbra
So yeah the benefit is kinda like double edge there lol
Why not serrated point then?
tight basin
shorter dash
tight basin
brain doesnt like it when you have to click twice, just hold down the attack because that's more fun
vagrant crane
i click twice lol
tight basin
tbh that's probably better
but that's too much effort that i'm not willing to put in
slow mirage
whats the best set up for an 8 heat run. tryna get that first statue
vagrant crane
whats the best set up for an 8 heat run. tryna get that first statue
how comfortable are you with tight deadline
slow mirage
how comfortable are you with tight deadline
i can do the 9 minute one no problem