h1-builds-and-combat

[tight basin]

so it's not a constant uptime

[last dirge]

Pretty sweet for your tdash

[tight basin]

ofc assuming you get constant procs it's good

[last dirge]

I think its global at least

Good use gets you more uptime.

[tight basin]

but also, the shorter dashes means you have less leniency of getting it to proc in the first place

[last dirge]

Eh no

That's not how it seems to work

[tight basin]

wdym

[round umbra]

V nice with all the damage sources that I want to stack on the fists, doom lightbing hangover

[last dirge]

You doing the dodge action alone triggers it

I don't think your dodge distance matters

[tight basin]

no i mean like

since your dash is shorter, getting your first dodge is harder

[round umbra]

Bad news plus that plus status for +140 is tasty

[last dirge]

Fair ig

I'm not saying it isnt a skill cap aspect

[tight basin]

so like you have to rely on a worse dash to get the 50% chance of dodge on the next one

[vagrant crane]

bad news when the boiling blood walks in the room

[last dirge]

Its higher skill cap than demeter

[round umbra]

Wait you can be across the map and dodge right before a thing attacks and get it?

[tight basin]

i mean yeah i suppose

[last dirge]

Well maybe equal

[proper furnace]

Wait where does the extra 40% come from

[tight basin]

but it's pretty rough lmao

[last dirge]

Tight demeter play always is tough

[proper furnace]

Oh i cant read

Sorry

[round umbra]

Priveleged status

Yee

[tight basin]

boiling blood isn't global

[last dirge]

Yeah it's for weapon dmg only

[vagrant crane]

society if boiling blood applied to casts

[lucid oar]

[last dirge]

Abyssal might be legit on Gilga

Dmg reduction and slow to stack with Rending? Maybe.

[proper furnace]

That was a thing I got wrong for so long lmao

[round umbra]

Maybe we could make support fire trigger on cast hit if we did that

[proper furnace]

I legit thought it applied to casts

[last dirge]

Just btw Rending is a legit massive dps increase. It rules.

[round umbra]

To keep beam and blades chugging

[lucid oar]

Only when you fire casts

Not when casts hit

[last dirge]

Like you immediately feel the difference

[tight basin]

or you could do 50% more damage to the standing attack, which you've been focusing on the whole time lmao

[round umbra]

Heart rend?

[last dirge]

Then explosive just makes applying them to multiple enemies easy

[proper furnace]

Rending claws

[last dirge]

Rending Claws, Gilgamesh's unique hammer

[round umbra]

Right I was saying a hypothetical in response to another hypothetical

[last dirge]

Maim increases damage received by 25% and reduces move speed by 30%

It doesnt sound super impressive but it really is

[lucid oar]

I should have replied to somenoobdying

[last dirge]

With Explosive especially which turns your Explosive Upper into a super easy to apply aoe

[proper furnace]

I was talking about boiling blood applying to casts

[last dirge]

Doesnt it only apply to attack and special?

[proper furnace]

Yup

[proper furnace]

But

I never readed the description entirely

So for a long time I thought it affected weapon + cast lol

[last dirge]

Yeah sometimes you forget. I didnt get that Achilles applied to cast

Or how that would be useful

[round umbra]

Achilles cast builds ❤️

Actually. Cast builds in general. Vast majority of my 32+ are cast. Me using fated authority on dodge fist might change that tho.

The things I like to do and the things I find easiest don't super line up lol.

[proper furnace]

Yeah cast builds are fun

For when you want a win but dont really want to play the weapon

[vagrant crane]

playing past aspho on achilles is not festive

[round umbra]

I find it pretty festive

[round umbra]

Eh, I would say they re playing the weapon different.

[vagrant crane]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/1105295057000599602/image.png?width=1246&height=701

[round umbra]

I'm counting eris lightning rods as a cast build

[vagrant crane]

look at those splits lol

2 min ely

[proper furnace]

Eris the castpect as always

Also since when you can see your splits in game

Thats sick

[vagrant crane]

since 1.3.0

[round umbra]

What's splits and what's ely

[proper furnace]

Elysium

[tight basin]

time splits, so like time per biome

[valid dagger]

Looks normal

[vagrant crane]

exactly

[round umbra]

Oh those aren't mods for the victory screen? How do you see other views?

[vagrant crane]

modpack

[vagrant crane]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1105911104581931169/image.png

[flat kelp]

I'm having a hard time with Zag Sword, which boons should I seek out?

[tight basin]

probably just the standard ME build

[flat kelp]

I don't know acronyms yet

[tight basin]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16_JXPaAt8fegie6Ss2x5tVeaR-FzoFlIgp0etd3yLHI/edit#heading=h.kmanbe2ojb3h

[flat kelp]

ty

[tight basin]

merciful end

the link should take you to the section of the guide that goes over ME

[flat kelp]

Your bananas 😛

appreciate it

do I start athena and get the dash?

[vagrant crane]

u can

are you doing 32

[flat kelp]

Maybe I should ask questions in new players, cause I don't know what 32 is

I just beat the game for the first time yesterday

I've just begun my adventure with Hades lol

[tight basin]

start ares and get his attack

you'll get more damage that way

but starting athena's special will still give you some damage and will be easier to get ME

[flat kelp]

You couldn't of had better timing I was just about to click go from the punishment screen XD

I'

I'm gonna switch now

[tight basin]

it just occurred to me that i should add the build guide thingy pinned here onto my guide lmao

[vagrant crane]

oh yeah u should ask if you can get that pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies

[tight basin]

oh true

[ashen shale]

any fun gloves/fists builds? (i want some flavor in my way for the hidden aspect )

[turbid needle]

haii! i've been playing hades for a while now but never grinded it BUT i want to this summer i would lovee to finish the game, get the companions, ||reunite achilles and patroclus||, romance characters and all that stuff soo if there's any recommended builds/boons/weapon aspects i would be so happy to learn

[ashen shale]

arthur aka hidden aspect of sword is a beginner friendly aspect for those getting heat runs around 10 and below 20

[vagrant crane]

ME

it's fun because it deals damage

[turbid needle]

thank youu!! i'll try to open that aspect

[vagrant crane]

it's not worth opening if u dont have it yet

too much effort for too little return

[grand zenith]

Zagreus Fist + Lambent Plume, Talos Fist + Poseidon Special.

[vagrant crane]

if you have it it's fine

but don't go out of your way

[grand zenith]

Is there any goofy Demeter builds?

[vagrant crane]

ME

[ashen shale]

all hidden aspects need 5 titan blood on their corresponding weapons to open a chance for the phrase

[vagrant crane]

a more easy to obtain beginner friendly aspect is probably something like hera

or you can just use a shield

[turbid needle]

oh i forgot to ask - after getting the titan blood with all the infernal arms, is the wretched broker the only way to get it?

[vagrant crane]

shield is very easy

[vagrant crane]

prophecies are the other main way

and then you have to trade a few more

[turbid needle]

i play on my laptop and with my keyboard so idk i can't use bow how hard i try LMAO

[ashen shale]

rama is probably good for you then

[vagrant crane]

lol yea keyboard only can work tho

rama is hard

[turbid needle]

ooh forgot about that tyvm!

[ashen shale]

rama is shotgun basically that pierces through enemies

[vagrant crane]

not super beginner friendly

you have to know how to charge without taking a hit and when to release because punish is big

hestia is a rlly easy aspect to use

or eris

hestia is more level dependent

[ashen shale]

we don't speak about lucifer to beginners

[vagrant crane]

huh

yea

eris at even just lvl 2 or 3 is an enemy melting machine so i'd recommend that

just start zeus and take his attack

[turbid needle]

don't make fun of me but i don't like playing with adamant rail unless i have specific upgrades from deadalus

[vagrant crane]

i mean sure it's not as good without clockets

but eris will still do fine with meh hammers

[ashen shale]

there is a prophecy for getting out with every weapon

find what aspect is good for you and which build

for that one

[turbid needle]

i love spear, sword and shield for now

[vagrant crane]

for sword u can always go nemesis

very strong

spear has achilles

[grand zenith]

Zag sword isn't bad either tbh.

[vagrant crane]

i mean it kinda is the 3rd worst aspect of the wep

[turbid needle]

yus i have nemesis n achilles for the spear

love them

[ashen shale]

we mention achilles cuz hades and others excludes flurry

[vagrant crane]

well

[ashen shale]

flurry and triple jab is a good combo

[vagrant crane]

achilles also is just better than hades

because it actually works with casts

[ashen shale]

guan yu sux for beginners

[vagrant crane]

ok

but yea if you want a beginner friendly aspect i'd go for eris or some kind of shield

zagshield is good and zeus is good too

[ashen shale]

chaos shield matters if you use the charge

[vagrant crane]

chaos shield bonus is useless

[turbid needle]

hmm i think i only have 1 titan blood left..

[vagrant crane]

does absolutely nothing of value

[turbid needle]

soo zagshield?

[vagrant crane]

sure

[ashen shale]

the shield hammer for more bounces onto enemies is good with poseidon special is good on asphodel

[vagrant crane]

dread flight?

dread flight kinda stinky

especially because you just want charged shot

if you see charged shot take it

best single hammer in the entire game

[ashen shale]

ima go do ME fists run if i can get merciful end

[vagrant crane]

but like, normal shield special is just really useless

[turbid needle]

i love charged shot

[ashen shale]

use the block in styx cuz the satyrs are hell to deal with

[vagrant crane]

isnt this a build thing

so

for zagshield

start aphrodite and take atk

look for charged shot

if you cant get it, pulv blow works

dashing wallop is eh as a cope

pretty sure nothing else matters

sudden rush is fine for mobility

[tight basin]

there's a build guide pinned here if you wanna go through that

[vagrant crane]

but yea shield on its own doesnt deal much damage but u just have a lot of defensive capabilities

[turbid needle]

@vagrant crane tyvm!!

[tight basin]

the build guide is a lot of words, but is worth reading, esp the beginning part

[turbid needle]

ooh thank youu

[turbid needle]

i'll def check it out when i have time

[round umbra]

I keep seeing this and keep not getting it. I like the bow. I like the shield esp beowulf. What am I not getting? The rush to change position and dodge just seems nice. And the shot takes that away even if it's more damage.

[vagrant crane]

80 damage base at min charge

easy to spam

[round umbra]

Maybe im bad at spamming it.

Love me some flurry shot. That's 60 and seems to do the same thing but better

[tight basin]

you dont need a new position if they're dead lmao

[tight basin]

flurry shot can't pierce shields

also 80 base is higher lmao

also cshot on beo is a whole lot stronger than on other shields

makes early game a lot faster

[vagrant crane]

one shotting ringers

wait is speedcord exclusive

[tight basin]

a loaded rush gives you a free 100% damage boost on the atk so it'd be a 160 on a loaded shot

[vagrant crane]

oh it's zagluv here

[tight basin]

no

[vagrant crane]

why is it called zagluv

[tight basin]

because it's luv

[vagrant crane]

zagWow is so much better

[round umbra]

Oh does the charged shot pierce shields in all of elys, the exalted and thesseus?

[tight basin]

yeah

it's extremely strong

also base 80 damage at any charge

compared to the like up to 40 on other shields lmao

and the 50 on beo

it's much stronger and faster

[round umbra]

Part of the issue is probably that I have too much fun throwing the beo shield. I know it's usually not optimal. But heavy shield chuck is fun

[tight basin]

"usually not optimal" is putting it really lightly lmao

[proper furnace]

It used to be meta it surely counts for something
because mirage bug wasn't known yet most probably

[tight basin]

yeah lmao

also charged flight nerf

unless it was still meta after the nerf, idrk

[warm snow]

the WHAT

i mean

did throwing the shield used to be useful?

[tight basin]

i mean

[proper furnace]

Charged flight was +400%

[tight basin]

it does do a lot of damage lmao

and yeah cflight was that

it technically is still useful in niche speedrunning applications but other than that, it's best to not build around it

[ashen shale]

back after doing the merciful end fist run

ares special with demeter fists is a good combo

[proper furnace]

Now swap it to ares attack

[round umbra]

I like chucking while waiting for the casts to land or when doing trippy

[proper furnace]

For normal casts you never use them all at once

Bc otherwise yeah you are stuck doing nothing

Always cycle like 1>rush load the other 2>rush again and pick the already dropped cast

Ofc there is more things like cycling with more casts/how many casts to load depending on the enemy and etc but thats the basic

[round umbra]

Ah

Well, I can still do styg soul festive for fun

[proper furnace]

Yeah trippy doesnt need to do that much

Just luck out

[last dirge]

Lmao

Rare ddash start > epic drunken dash > premium vintage and heroic ddash from a 2 god room

[proper furnace]

Heroic titan toppler gaming

[last dirge]

Pretty good tart

Still have the FF damage too.

Wait it was an epic strong drink

Even better

Epic strong drink at no real loss in Tart is S tier

Do I take heroic deadly strike?

So many swaps

Going for DR. Other options are epic Dflourish and epic True Shot

So I'd take the flourish to get the duo otherwise

[ashen shale]

what u doin?

[last dirge]

Deadly Reversal Gilgamesh

Ig I need flourish for the duo

[ashen shale]

do flourish i guess

[last dirge]

Yeah I did. In #h1-victory-boasting

[vagrant crane]

nem is so fun

[last dirge]

Gilga DR is so fun

I'm addicted to deflect

[vagrant crane]

cod has gotta be funnier

[last dirge]

Cod is fun for sure you just cant see anything

[tight basin]

cod is funnier

[last dirge]

DR is just actually good though. Check my #h1-victory-boasting clips

[tight basin]

bonus points if you get unshakable mettle

because funny

[last dirge]

You start it up and it goes wild

DR ddash CoD

Is it even possible

[vagrant crane]

yea

you can do arty aid

or you can just sell the true shot

[tight basin]

start arty atk, get athena special, get deadly reversal, sell arty atk and replace with ares, get ME, get ddash somewhere along the way

and then get cod somehow

easy

best strategy obv

[last dirge]

DR is even better with Athena's Aid

You can deflect basically any attack

It's basically global 20% crit

That on a dash strike ME build with a decent mark leads to this

[last dirge]

Just had the most nonsense build.

Thunder dash gilga. Good Zeus luck and got Splitting Bolt and Smouldering Air despite only ending up with a rare unpommed Jolted

But my call is Athena and I have DR and Mark

Crit bolts

And a purple RD

[grand zenith]

Goofy ahh build fr.

[gilded kayak]

hey i heard somewhere that damage reduction stuff doesnt reduce damage from bosses unless if they specifically say so. i couldnt find anywhere in the wiki that says so, so i was wondering if anyone else has any kind of confirmation.

[vagrant crane]

no it does

bronze skin and the aph one work on bosses

and arthur

[gilded kayak]

do u have any sources? would like something more solid than two poeple saying opposite things

[vagrant crane]

try it out for yourself

go get bronze skin

[gilded kayak]

damn

[vagrant crane]

or

[gilded kayak]

alr

[vagrant crane]

more easily

go use arthur

who is saying it doesn’t

the only reason i could think of is that unshakable mettle exists

whose dr only applies to bosses

but that’s just because it’s a garbage duo

[gilded kayak]

oh just some friend

[vagrant crane]

although it’d still suck anyways

i guess i could go try it but that would require both getting out of bed and suffering through an arthur run

[gilded kayak]

lol its alr, ill just remember to test it some time

[valid dagger]

Check the code Seriously tho it does work.

There’s like 1 boon

[vagrant crane]

i have an arthur vod

[primal geyser]

Always wondered.
How do you even check that?

[valid dagger]

That explicitly says bosses

[vagrant crane]

apparently

[valid dagger]

Just open the lua file in a text editor

You just have to know what lua file to open

[vagrant crane]

how much damage does dad usually do with a boiling blood tthrow

[valid dagger]

I have a Beo vod on 55 heat where I take like 25 damage from spins

And whatnot

lol

[vagrant crane]

https://youtu.be/JDG7W467r-Q

[valid dagger]

I think 50

But not sure

[vagrant crane]

old ass vod of arthur dad fight go look at numbers

[primal geyser]

Alright, shouldn't be too difficult to find

[vagrant crane]

i took 9

[valid dagger]

You can ask in the modding discord, they know the files really well

[vagrant crane]

i used to play for max ehp

i remember asking if everyone else always ended runs with over 400 hp

[grand zenith]

Nah, I used to keep my health below 200 to maximise POm and Boon efficiency.

And then I realised I was wasting Dark Gen lol.

[vagrant crane]

yes

it works

i took 9 from a spin in the arthur aura

15 out of it

[vagrant crane]

it’s always wasted

[valid dagger]

Damage reduction is gud

[vagrant crane]

HWAT THE HELL THIS ISNT FAIR

[grand zenith]

You've clearly never had enough health then, you can definitely get enough health where you still need the health from the fountain to heal back to full.

[grand zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-should-been-gif-23901254

[vagrant crane]

i’m looking at this vod from 3 months ago and i had a faster dad fight than some of my speedruns dude

[grand zenith]

Lel

[vagrant crane]

it was triple flurry zagbow run and i just turreted

45s

which is slow as hell

but also

i’ve had 50s dads

on like sub8s at least

[valid dagger]

You’re used to Hestia dad fights

🗿

[vagrant crane]

i’m ngl

i haven’t played hestia in like 2 weeks

i’ve just been grinding achilles mostly and then i played nem for the past few days

[valid dagger]

Well that explains it

[vagrant crane]

[valid dagger]

Achilles dad fight is something

[vagrant crane]

it certainly is

me pulling 65s dad fight out with the no juice run i would have reset like 20 times already

[valid dagger]

Achilles and Hestia just too many buttons for me

Especially the bosses

[vagrant crane]

i love the buttons

[valid dagger]

They really test your skill

[vagrant crane]

hestia dad fight on kbm is kind of annoying because aiming clockets can suck

because i suck

but i like pressing buttons fast

achilles button pressing is so satisfying though

[valid dagger]

When you get it right yea it’s great

Feels satisfying

I played it a for like a week but hands hurt

[vagrant crane]

except it feels awful without flurry

[valid dagger]

Yea also that

[vagrant crane]

so slow

[valid dagger]

I was aiming for sub630 but I got 640 and dipped 🗿

[vagrant crane]

idk how i pulled a 39s dad out of my ass on achilles tho i suck at it

but literally just after like 3 days of playing it nem has gotta be one of the most satisfying aspects

decision making wise because you can take so many different gods

and gameplay wise because hitting enemies feels so nice

[last dirge]

Jeez splitting bolt thunder dash tart is pretty nuts on gilga

Didnt even have more dashes. Just lots of Zeus scaling.

+225% damage bolts tend to do that. 130 damage dash bolts and Splitting Bolts. 800 damage Jolteds. All proccing at rapid speeds with Double Strike

[severe cedar]

Hey guys, looking for some fun Spear builds, working on getting 20 heat with each weapon

Any recommendations?

So far tried three
Tidal dash and a bunch of poseidon boons on top+aphro zeus duo
Achiless spear with mirage shot
And the last spear aspect with aphro special spam

[lucid oar]

Hades spear with the spin hammers (quick spin/massive spin)

[severe cedar]

So just focusing on attack damage then? Probably aphro and artemis?

[lucid oar]

Yep

Poseidon could be fun as well with sea storm and other scaling

[severe cedar]

Alright, ty

[vagrant crane]

exploding launcher is fun if u dont find one of those as one of ur hammers

[vagrant crane]

what kind of mirage shot on achilles

[severe cedar]

Poseidon’s

[vagrant crane]

hunting blades is fun

[severe cedar]

Right, I forget it doesnt have to be poseidon/artemis on cast

[vagrant crane]

yea

on achilles u often get mirage on accident because you start tidal dash and u want deadly strike

[round umbra]

Crystal beams Achilles ❤️

But also, just starting with artemis attack on achilles and seeing what the game gives you can go alright. It's a setup for good attack and cast builds.

[round umbra]

Is there something special about tidal and achilles?

[proper furnace]

No more AoE issues

[tight basin]

tidal dash just does a lot of damage lmao

[round umbra]

So not build specific, just generally useful?

I love it for the rat rooms but haven't super noticed it otherwise.

Ig skulls sometimes.

[vagrant crane]

bosses

general enemies

[tight basin]

yeah tdash in builds is generally always gonna be for aoe, damage, and to delete styx pretty much

if you get a damage tracker or something, you'll notice it does a considerable amount to bosses lmao

i think i've heard it do like around 30% against hades consistently or something?

[vagrant crane]

pretty sure on those chiron dps measures it was doing like 50%

granted it's chiron

[round umbra]

Interesting. Makes sense. Ranged builds probably have it deal less but also want things knocked away

Okay maybe not.

[vagrant crane]

hestia actually needs it a lot

rail generally wants it

[tight basin]

nearly every ranged weapon in this game unironically plays like melee if you want high dps lmao

[round umbra]

Makes sense

[tight basin]

the only exception is like a proper special build on chiron where you need the range to get the special off

[round umbra]

Yeah, chiron arrows hitting walls before they can curl back is annoying.

[tight basin]

it plays mid-far range compared to close-mid range

[vagrant crane]

i mean

chiron doesnt have high dps

[tight basin]

it kinda does, just not aoe

chiron's slow because the special can't hit more than one enemy

and also the special animation

[vagrant crane]

i mean like

sure

but also

the special does not deal much damage

[tight basin]

it can

build it better

[vagrant crane]

unless maybe if u get relentless too

cause it's gonna put out like

what

1400 a volley

thats kinda bad dps given the volley takes so long

[tight basin]

sounds like a skill issue

[vagrant crane]

so true

[tight basin]

i mean like

not everyone is a speedrunner

it's high enough

[vagrant crane]

ig

[tight basin]

you're not gonna have like beo numbers or anything

but like my point still stands

also the special does 80 damage lmao that's not bad

[vagrant crane]

le rocket damage

[tight basin]

it just doent benefit from fiery

which also makes it slower in normal rooms

but you can still deal good damage on chiron

it's just not fast

[round umbra]

Line up those curved pierces

Curving arrows through a second target on the way the primary is pretty safisfying

[vagrant crane]

piercing volley reduces range

[round umbra]

Piercing volley can't be gotten on chiron I think

[proper furnace]

It can

[round umbra]

Oh am I thinking of charged volley?

[proper furnace]

Yes

[round umbra]

Is that a thing? Isn't that the one that reduces range?

Doesn't chiron special pierce to the target of a target is chosen by the attack?

[lucid oar]

No

[round umbra]

Oh really? Guess my eyes deceive me.

And piercing volley reduces range?

On just chiron or all?

[tight basin]

piercing volley makes it harder to hit close range targets and it shortens your range lmao

[tight basin]

no clue since you shouldn't use the special on any of the other aspects lmao

and rama can't get piercing

[round umbra]

Does it say it does than and I just can't read?

Or is it just an unpleasant surprise

[proper furnace]

Funny surprise

[tight basin]

yeah it's a surprise lmao

[round umbra]

V rude

[tight basin]

like you try to special a targeted enemy and you swear it should hit but then it just doesn't

and you think you're going crazy and you keep doing it lmao

there's not really any video proof tbf

it's mainly intuition

because it's like "i've never had special range issues until i picked up piercing volley, and now im having issues"

[vagrant crane]

the solution: playing different weapon

[tight basin]

also true

[round umbra]

Any other surprises I should know about? I know the bad news bug, the mirage flare bug, the trippy beo bug, and the the clockets bug.

And was given a document to read about others.

No seastorm flood flare us unfortunate.

[tight basin]

uh

@vagrant crane the rare crop bug is exclusive to beo?

or is it also hera

or everything

[vagrant crane]

wdym

which crop bug

[tight basin]

lmao

variable damage output

[vagrant crane]

pretty sure that was discovered on hera

[tight basin]

festive

[vagrant crane]

fog

[tight basin]

there's the cshot beo bug thingy

idk how to explain it so you can jazz if you want

[vagrant crane]

yea

so

if you take rare crop

after you get charged shot

the charged shot base damage resets to the standard bull rush damage

idk if it changes as you charge it

but you're not meeting those wringer and thug breakpoints anymore

[tight basin]

the rush on beo is a constant damage

the damage doesn't change depending how much you charge it like the other shields

[vagrant crane]

oh

i see

well whatever im just never cropping

[tight basin]

nah rare crop is busted, it worked in my sub6

don't take it

how much damage am i losing out on from cshot lmao

60 right

[vagrant crane]

y4ea

[tight basin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007734863186624562/1099546951676080208/output.png?width=800&height=600

[vagrant crane]

on loaded shots

[tight basin]

uh

i had a lvl 5 cast by the end

[vagrant crane]

lmfao

[tight basin]

okay yeah that's like a 30 damage different

BUT

[vagrant crane]

the distance is constant

[tight basin]

i had 7 casts

so check mate

[round umbra]

Wait so the bug is

[vagrant crane]

somene link hades bugs doc i have lab to do

[tight basin]

rare crop makes damage numbers weird and screws up charged shot damage on beo

[tight basin]

rare crop bug isn't in it

afaik

but they already have the link

[vagrant crane]

oh

[round umbra]

Well, a gsheet link anyways. Probably the same one

[tight basin]

yeah made by unholy pancake right

[round umbra]

That sounds right

[tight basin]

the screws up cshot damage on beo is an oversimplification tbf

[tight basin]

but jazz explained it well here

actually is the crop bug only if it hits the flare or in general

[round umbra]

Screws up in a bad way

[tight basin]

yeah

reverts to base damage

so a loaded cshot will do 100 instead of 160

on beo

[round umbra]

So random

[tight basin]

and a normal cshot will do 50 instead of 80

[tight basin]

bugwulf moment

[round umbra]

Can collect like half the bugs in a single beo run

[tight basin]

it's been discovered for a few months or something iirc

or at least somewhat fairly recent iirc

[tight basin]

you honestly could lmao

i have video evidence of the cshot bug too lmao it's kinda scuffed

"cshot should one shot these wringers"
"wait wtf"
"oh crop"

[turbid needle]

@vagrant crane i got the zagshield and charged shot and pulv blow zeus on atk demeter on call it's v good!!

now i'm scared

[vagrant crane]

nice

a diff atk would be better but it’s fine lol

[turbid needle]

yus same but it was just zeus for the first 4 encounters

[tight basin]

(pulv blow also makes it slower to put down the shield in a standing strike lol)

It's like marginally slower

Still fine tho

[turbid needle]

oh didn't know ab that one

[tight basin]

Yeah most people don't notice it lmao

[turbid needle]

failed

[tight basin]

It do be like that

[last dirge]

Rare crop, especially an epic one on a tight build with just some core stuff early on, is really damn good

Huge variance in boon value

But it does add to FF and doesnt take a slot

Worst case scenario 1 thing is nerfed for a bit

For breakpoints that sucks ig

Imo I'd prefer the heroics later on, depending on what it can hit.

Like once iirc I got it to hit Deadly Strike, Hunter's Mark, and Pressure Points.

Not even the best, but that is a pretty solid example of a good Crop

Solid longterm scaling to a crit build

Only Mark suffers from being common

[vagrant crane]

i mean crop is mostly just detrimental if the boon is already epic and only rlly worth considering if it's rare or common

[last dirge]

Fair

That's a common Crop too.

I can also see it just having value in Demeter builds but only I do those.

Maybe for a full on beam build

[vagrant crane]

i just am not gonna take crop ever again because i dont want to deal with anything resembling rng damage

[proper furnace]

Crop jumpscare

[last dirge]

Because all the scaling from Arctic Blast and Killing Freeze come from rarity.

That's fair

I like rng and making it consistent

That's the fun of DR builds

[vagrant crane]

i mean i dont like having your damage change on a whim

[last dirge]

Yeah I get it

[vagrant crane]

because you like took a replacement or bought a well item or something

[last dirge]

That's how you play

[vagrant crane]

i dont wanna meet a breakpoint in c19 only to fail it in c22

[last dirge]

Fair

[vagrant crane]

it’s funny tho

[last dirge]

I'd rather stomp dad as hard as possible

That's why I do em4 alone a lot

[vagrant crane]

dads always a pushover lol

[last dirge]

That and it opens aspho erebus gates

[vagrant crane]

the real hard encounters are lernie and c32-34

[last dirge]

Less so when you can get hit for 100

Gilga flaws

[vagrant crane]

efficient lernies are a nightmare

[proper furnace]

Lernie is a nightmare in general

[last dirge]

Yeah lots of factors on where they spawn

[vagrant crane]

your build isn’t fully up but the boss isn’t a pushover like furies

[last dirge]

Lava in the way

I died in furies today

Not dead dead but 1 dd

[proper furnace]

Blue lernie is always a fun experience

[vagrant crane]

idek what the head colors are

[last dirge]

Just not dodging right lol

Yeah I barely know

[vagrant crane]

does head color affect how long it is between phase and head spawn

[last dirge]

It barely matters unless maybe for extreme heat

[proper furnace]

It determines what attack they have

[vagrant crane]

because sometimes its instant and sometimes lernie sits back for like 20 seconds waiting to spawn the nexet guy

[last dirge]

But even then they are pretty obvious soon enough

[vagrant crane]

i mean i dont think ive ever lost a dd to a lernie head

lernie taxes are main head slams and lava

[last dirge]

Yeah

[vagrant crane]

because im a professional lava stander

[proper furnace]

Blue lernie is the one that spams the head slams for longer

[last dirge]

That's also why I hate witches. Lava.

[vagrant crane]

witches is easy if you dont screw up the meg

[last dirge]

Probably a minor speed factor then

[vagrant crane]

which i do in like 75% of cases

[last dirge]

I dont use meg lol

[vagrant crane]

witches and ig heroes are the most important aplpications of meg

or dad

[last dirge]

My DR builds handle them well but I never get them then

I get gorgon head

[vagrant crane]

gorgon head is so funny because its so free to do a 1 cycle

you could pull off a 1 cycle with achilles and a singular boon and a singular hammer

[last dirge]

With meg?

[vagrant crane]

yea

[last dirge]

Makes sense yeah flurry would stun lock them easily

I've done it

[vagrant crane]

i mean it's not stun lock necessity

[last dirge]

Just isnt gonna happen on stuff like gilga

[vagrant crane]

it's just that they have like no actual hp it's all armor

[last dirge]

Unless I have a lightning dash build going and have splitting bolt

[vagrant crane]

so after like a rotation and a half they both drop to the ground

[last dirge]

Yeah

[vagrant crane]

killing the thing with jolted is so funny too

it starts to drop on you and kills itself

on accident

whoopsies

[last dirge]

I keep not getting jolted until styx

I'm not taking a common jolted when the other option opens up splitting bolt

[vagrant crane]

ill take jolted because splitting is a myth invented by big zeus in order to get us to take more zeus

[last dirge]

Meanwhile I randomly always get epic jolted on other non pure Zeus builds.

[proper furnace]

One thing about the head crusher that is really obvious but took me so long to notice is that they dont get sea storm'd

[last dirge]

I've gotten Splitting like 3 times in a row

Skill issue

Legendaries can be kinda hard but I got it and it's really strong on lightning dash gilga

With double strike

[proper furnace]

Doesnt help that I barely used sea storm for a long time

I still remember the old times

When dash opened sea storm

[last dirge]

Better than a sea storm tdash build. More bolts hit enemies.

Yeah

Its annoying.

Thunder dash isnt a good start really either

It gets really good when you stack zeus

Lightning reflexes and such

[proper furnace]

My switch couldnt update the game for a while so I got stuck with things like 4 bars dad call and 8 seconds eris buff for a lot

Was fun

[last dirge]

Lol

I used to exploit Shady

It's hard to explain but basically the items it spawned could stop movement

Most notably on like Lernie

So instead of it moving its head around at least before em2, it would basically get lodged between the darkness and obols

Even during head slams it would just stay in there

Now actually those items block attacks it seems

Dont know if it blocks enemy attacks.

And they "stretch"

[proper furnace]

Oh yeah I've seen a few posts about that lol

Mainly on ely champions

[last dirge]

I forget what it does there

I did it there too though. Maybe it holds Asterius still

So like then Shady was legit

Still is but there were clear arguments to use that exploit.

[last dirge]

Still trying to get cold embrace gilga going

It should work.

Explosive + Rending + HFlourish + Sweet Surrender

Sweet Surrender is like bonus scaling on your Maim

[flint flame]

Hey guys who's best on chaos sheild special, I know zues Ares and Dionysus are the best but which out of the 3 would be the best

[lucid oar]

Generally Zeus

[frail fable]

i like zeus and poseidon duo

make special and attack poseidon so when duo both ur attack and special got two effect and also make ur damage stronger

[round umbra]

Wait does the zeus bolt cooldown timer not stop that?

I always assume the 0.2s limits how effective zeus is on chiron/rama/chaos

[proper furnace]

Yeah it does stop lol

[warm snow]

it's calculated per enemy per source

[tight basin]

it doesn't work on chiron, works fine on rama, and doesn't work on a point blank chaos special

but you can still get jolted i guess lmao

and zeus duos are generally better than ares/dio duos in this situation

[round umbra]

Rama is 4-8 bolts on a target?

[proper furnace]

Rama also runs into the cooldown

[tight basin]

well it's not your main damage source on rama anyways so it's fine

[tight basin]

also rama only shoots out 3 arrows on the special lmao

[round umbra]

So you're thinking mainly as a way to apply jolted?

[round umbra]

Rip

[vagrant crane]

no as a way to apply shared suffering

[proper furnace]

Jolted good

[round umbra]

Okay but why Zeus then

[tight basin]

thunder flourish on rama is just to clean up all the small low hp units

numbskulls, eyeballs, rats, that sorta stuff

jolted is obv nice tho

extra damage

it's just good aoe and has good supporting boons

[round umbra]

Mmh, immediate non percent damage

[tight basin]

i dont think anyone wants a % bonus on a base 5 damage arrow

[round umbra]

Does the +3 per hit hammer and +4 shots hammers work on rama lol

[vagrant crane]

conc doesnt

relentless does

[tight basin]

conc volley on rama is actually unironically good lmao

may or may not need swift fourish? but it's actually really strong

[round umbra]

Did you mean relentless?

[vagrant crane]

no

with codex mod

[tight basin]

nah you can use codex mod to cheat in illegal combos

[round umbra]

Ah

[tight basin]

https://streamable.com/ssnayw

fun stuff like this

[round umbra]

Do the first 2 almost immediately explode or can I have a fortress of reflection?

[tight basin]

wdym

[round umbra]

So you know how once you out a fourth orb out, the first explodes?

Does that change at all with cluster orbs?

(That is a video of cluster orbs, right?)

[tight basin]

yeah it explodes on impact it seems

cluster rocket luci

[round umbra]

All or just the first 2?

[tight basin]

probably all

because when the 4th one comes out, it explodes, so it'll trigger all the other explosions too

oh wait they hit special three times

idk i'm assuming they're all just exploding at the same time because they blow up if they take any damage

and previous explosions will trigger them each time

[round umbra]

could spread them out enough to not trigger each other, right?

[tight basin]

yeah probably

but also they'll just blow up immediately anyways lmao

[dire furnace]

After I get Mirage Shot, is there any boon I should shoot for while playing Flood Flare Beo

[vagrant crane]

not in particular

hunter's mark is always nice to have

wave pounding is pleasant boss dmg

and RD is RD

[dire furnace]

RD?

[vagrant crane]

rush delivery with hyper sprint

[dire furnace]

oh

[vagrant crane]

+50-+100% dmg boost for 0.5-0.7s after dash

[dire furnace]

ok ty

[round umbra]

hey, heroic is also possible

[ashen shale]

Rolling Knuckle + Breaching Cross = No Armor

[storm tree]

I wish there was a game in the style of hades that was focused on melee combat, it would have elements of games like mgr and dmc but with more nuance in the combat rather than just memorizing combos

[grand zenith]

God of War maybe?

[proven osprey]

Try Furi

I don't think it will meet all your criterias but I'm pretty sure you'll like it

[ashen shale]

another build for malphon : aspect of demeter + demeter special + pressure points

[vagrant crane]

le artemis special

[grand zenith]

Lel.

[ashen shale]

funi 1000+ dmg

[drowsy saddle]

POS SPECIAL BIG %

HIT EM INTO THE WALLS

[turbid needle]

i hate playing with bow but at the same time i want to start playing with it soo any tips??

[tight basin]

dash strike with it

charges faster, does a bit less damage but you need the speed

that's probably the biggest thing lmao

[vagrant crane]

and power shot

[turbid needle]

[tight basin]

build and hammers are gonna be aspect dependent

[vagrant crane]

dont like

spam the button

ive seen people spam the button dont do that

do power shots

practice on skelly

[turbid needle]

i think i have 2 or 4 titan bloods so which aspect should i open

[vagrant crane]

zagreus is good

[turbid needle]

i'm not on my laptop so i can't look lmao sorry

[tight basin]

zag bow or hera are good

[turbid needle]

[vagrant crane]

here hold on

[tight basin]

upgrading zag bow gives you a built in base crit chance, kinda like a permanent deadly strike without the % modifier

upgrading hera makes casts drop out of enemies faster

[vagrant crane]

omg no 20% damage bonus

how will i win

[tight basin]

hey man

break points lmao

[vagrant crane]

le aphrodite attack

[tight basin]

but crit chance funny

[vagrant crane]

what if

crit chance

AND

+100%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0sIE9N7_9o

[tight basin]

but more crit chance :(

[vagrant crane]

twin shot

[vagrant crane]

just pom pp

[valid dagger]

get yourself a cute common chaos strike

[tight basin]

true

[vagrant crane]

anyways i should probably do something else rn

i have an exam in 45 min

[turbid needle]

WHY IS IT SO WIDE JAZZ

[vagrant crane]

dw about it

wait

[tight basin]

she thinks it looks better somehow

[vagrant crane]

that's 4/5 crits

whats the chance of that

uhhh

[tight basin]

100%

[vagrant crane]

0.0004303125

[turbid needle]

ok so practice power shots with skelly and zagbow

[vagrant crane]

0.04%

why cant i get that rng on my zagbow bosses man

me exiting lernie after 60 seconds of chiron action

[tight basin]

if you play hera, you don't need to power shot lmao

you just need to aim

[vagrant crane]

which is harder

[tight basin]

(aiming is the hard part)

[turbid needle]

I CANT AIM

[vagrant crane]

are you on kbm

[turbid needle]

yus

[vagrant crane]

i mean

without flurry it's probably easy to aim

[tight basin]

it's easier but also like

aim still sucks lmao

but yeah if you can't aim on hera, zag bow is fine

[turbid needle]

[tight basin]

less punishing if you miss

[vagrant crane]

i mean

on a non speedrun

the punishment is usually just

"walk over there"

[tight basin]

that's also true

but "walk over there" can suck

[vagrant crane]

idk man as

[turbid needle]

bro i just want to play

i'll share with yall if i can escape w the zagbow (probably not)

[lucid oar]

I’m getting 0.2%

SMH not rare enough !

[vagrant crane]

0.15^4*0.85?

[lucid oar]

*5

5C1

[vagrant crane]

oh right

well

wasnt it 4 crits and

oh

no

it was 2 crit 1 non crit 2 crit

so 0.15^2*0.85*0.15^2 which of course gives a different answer

because that's how math works

[lucid oar]

Fr

[severe cedar]

there was a really detailed guide about hestia rail, but I cant find it anywhere🥲
anyone knows what I am talking about? didnt find it in pinned messages

[keen forge]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1019DSLlyHwg7_oIiN3Il-NUYdHEbl783G7ZvstFSCD4/edit

This perhaps?

[severe cedar]

yes yes omg ty

[tight basin]

aspect specific guides aren't pinned, but you can use the search function and generally find them easily

[severe cedar]

okay, will do that in the future

[nimble peak]

I am still missing Swift Delivery Hermes and Glacial Glare Demeter.
I cant figure out how to get These last 2

Oh and Defiance by Chaos

[proper furnace]

if you mean rush delivery
you need one of the following: greater haste, hyper sprint or Hermes keepsake
Glaciar glare needs you to have crystal beam
defiance needs you to have any of the other Chaos boons

(so that means you can only see it from the 2nd chaos gate and onwards=

[nimble peak]

Thanks! I'll try

[proper light]

damn that was a fun build i just improved my rail time by like 6 minutes using this guide

[copper valley]

Hello

[vagrant crane]

hi

[copper valley]

Looking for advice

[vagrant crane]

on

[copper valley]

Escaped once, not every aspect unlock

I don't feel I'm moving forward now

[vagrant crane]

play higher heat

[copper valley]

I do

Thesus is just kicking my ass harder

Looking for crazy broken build

Like Cursed Slash and Flurry Slash

[vagrant crane]

i mean

thats not a very broken build

[copper valley]

I believe it's the most busted combo in the game

[vagrant crane]

it is definitely not

[copper valley]

You heal like crazy

[vagrant crane]

not rlly

eat a dad spin takes like ages to heal up

id rather just actually deal damage

[copper valley]

Only Charon and Daddy was outdamaging the heal

But I believe you

[round umbra]

Everything is a little subjective folks

[copper valley]

My question was more of what's the best dps between Support Fire, Drunken Strike or Lighting Strike on the adament Rail

[round umbra]

Everyone has a different skill set

[round umbra]

Support fire can back up either of the other two

Sounds like you want to try out Eris rail.

[proper furnace]

Lightning will get more dps

[round umbra]

That one is extra good with drunk or lightning

[proper furnace]

And yeah support is well
Support

[round umbra]

I would assume drunk is more peak dps

Is that not the case?

[proper furnace]

Zeus scaling is ridiculous

[round umbra]

How's that?

[proper furnace]

Jolted is already a huge boost

[round umbra]

Scaling with what? More boons?

[proper furnace]

Yes

A zeus build is literally just slap any other zeus boon you find

And global dmg

Also lightning has more AoE

[round umbra]

I definitely find lightning easier and more satisfying to play on the last two weapons

[proper furnace]

Hangover works best for when is hard to even find jolted (see AP/RI)

[copper valley]

Do you have nomber ?

[round umbra]

What's

That

[proper furnace]

Hangiver you just feed it endless poms

[copper valley]

Like how much damage in 10 secondes ?

[round umbra]

That's going to depend on so many things

[proper furnace]

Yeah

Also lightning has another advantage vs dad

Tho pretty small cuz its rail lol

Darkness removes hangover everu time

[copper valley]

?

[proper furnace]

(when he goes invisible)

[round umbra]

Does it remove all conditions?

[proper furnace]

Any debuff yeah

[round umbra]

Get fricked, privileged status

[proper furnace]

The sneak mini boss in tart also clears debuff on vanish

Is a pain with doom/hangover

[copper valley]

So, let's try lightning rail

[proper furnace]

Lookout for a good special/damaging dash too

Lightning alone will only carry you so far unless you get like rush delivery + zeus legendary

[round umbra]

Pretty far. Definitely can get you through lower heats.

[vagrant crane]

special needs %

and get good hammers

[copper valley]

On the subject, what is the biggest dps you can have from the start of a run ?

[vagrant crane]

probably just like

either shackle hestia with hazard or flurry achilles

[copper valley]

Shackle look like a scam

You're op at the start but not in the end

[vagrant crane]

i mean

[valid dagger]

You’re op in the end if you don’t pick anything for the attack

[vagrant crane]

you keep the scaling

and you can still get RD and chaos

[copper valley]

RD ?

[vagrant crane]

rush delivery

u go for it with hyper sprint for a free 50-100% increase in damage during and for 0.5-0.7s after dash

[copper valley]

🤔

Going to look that

One last thing for tonight

Spear

Flurry Jab or Massive Spin ?

[vagrant crane]

flurry jab?

if it's flurry jab take flurry jab

and do dash strikes

https://youtu.be/TNzQIlU-ZtI?t=726 heres what the rotation looks like if you're on achilles

[copper valley]

I wasn't exactly sure, thanks

[vagrant crane]

flurry jab is the best spear hammer

[copper valley]

Almost instantly the best weapon

[raw peak]

Chilled is a pretty disappointing status

[vagrant crane]

i mean its not that bad

[lucid oar]

It’s not the most exciting but it’s very nice in high heat

[raw peak]

It didn't do a lot to slow down Asterius or buff my damage that much. Even with the explosions at 10 stacks

[vagrant crane]

oh well that's your problem lol

dont get arctic blast

problem solved

[tight basin]

how much slow is it?

at max stack at least

[vagrant crane]

50% at max stack iirc

[tight basin]

is that the only instance of additive movement speed

[vagrant crane]

it's not like

[tight basin]

or subtractive i guess lmao

[vagrant crane]

it's still mult

it's just that the status levels do the thing

[tight basin]

oh i see

[vagrant crane]

it's like a stack doesn't have an individual effect it changes the buff

cause

it'll stack mult with abyssal

arthur

targ

trippy

it's just internally additive because it would b really weird if it was 0.95^stack

[tight basin]

i mean either way, chill isn't really meant for damage, and it does slow down a decent amount, but like yeah it's not spectacular

and i've never really liked arctic blast tbh

[vagrant crane]

it's bad damage and it removes the status effect you might actually want

[tight basin]

it's good for meme beams with glacial glare i suppose but other than that, i don't like it too much

[vagrant crane]

i could see it being funny with her revenge boon lol

[tight basin]

maybe good bonus damage for dem special chiron lmao

[vagrant crane]

nope

well

first off

it's dem special chiron

you're not dealing damage

[tight basin]

it'd be decent with conc

[vagrant crane]

the only thing you would do that for is the chill

[vagrant crane]

imagine pos or arty or aph though

[tight basin]

arctic blast funny

Common:
Damage: 80
Rare:
Damage: 90
Epic:
Damage: 100
Heroic:
Damage: 110

[lucid oar]

Chill is 4% per stack

[tight basin]

arctic blast honestly not that bad on chiron tbh lmao

it's like

a free 100% bonus

kinda

not really but

it exists lmao

[lucid oar]

It’s sea storm without potential for jolted or any of that stuff