h1-builds-and-combat

[cunning urchin]

And so is Flurry Slash.

They're compatible.

[plain river]

Concentrated beam and infinite magazine hammer are definitely incompatible

Ricochet and spreadfire are incompatible

[neon terrace]

im sure some ppl could do 50 w flurry slash and cirsed slash

[plain river]

And I think I’ll actually have to check the wiki for the fist hammers because I don’t remember the interactions for the numerous special hammers

[neon terrace]

pretty sure ive had that combo before

[plain river]

“With good high heat runs”

[neon terrace]

any 50 heat clear is a good run imo

[plain river]

[cunning urchin]

Yes, but they wouldn't be happy about the hammer lol.

Frost Ripper and facts are incompatible.

[tight basin]

true

[plain river]

I just spat out a bunch

[neon terrace]

well yeah but that applies to a lot of cases. im never happy with any 1st achilles hammer that isnt flurry jab, any eris hammer that isnt rocket or cluster (even tho piercing, ricochet, explosive, seeking, and flurry work just fine), etc

[cunning urchin]

You didn't even know that Ricochet and Piercing were compatible when everyone should clearly know they are because everyone should obviously remember that their interaction was buggy for quite awhile until it was patched.

Smh.

[cunning urchin]

Huge difference between useless or weak and actively harmful.

[plain river]

The vast majority of it was fact

[cunning urchin]

Yet you didn't even remember such a well-known bug smh.

[plain river]

yeah because who takes piercing and ricochet fire

[cunning urchin]

No, because you weren't there yet.

[plain river]

anyways what was the bug?

[cunning urchin]

Can't even get right why you can't remember.

[neon terrace]

it's not like u have a choice, if theyre offered u gotta take them

[cunning urchin]

Got 'em.

[neon terrace]

any spin hammer is actively harmful due to locking out flurry jab 😂

[plain river]

Not on Hades and Guan-yu

[cunning urchin]

Hestia players who are experimenting in early access.

[neon terrace]

but seriously cursed slash is fine for good players, flurry is the one that's that bad

[cunning urchin]

Lol

Cursed Slash is not fine.

[neon terrace]

guan yu Id still much rather flurry than a spin hammer, tho ofc u want cskewer and some other special one

[plain river]

Cursed slash is never fine

[plain river]

Guan-Yu if it could get flurry jab: 📈

[neon terrace]

btw can u have cskewer and exploding launcher

[cunning urchin]

Reducing your HP to 40% with no upsides is not fine.

[tight basin]

yeah that's like the go-to hammers for zag and hades spear lmao

[cunning urchin]

Yes, not on Guan Yu, though, of course.

[plain river]

Yes that’s a well known combo and I didn’t say they were incompatible earlier because they aren’t

[neon terrace]

for ppl who are insaneky good with the sword they can live with it. not me tho i will die instantly

[neon terrace]

ik hades used exploding launcher sometimes but i thought u would still want massive or quick spin for the other hammer

[plain river]

People who are insanely good with sword wouldn’t take it because it directly nerfs their hp for no value thanks to it not working with dash strikes

[cunning urchin]

They reset immediately pretty much lol.

[neon terrace]

they wont have a choice wdym

[plain river]

wdym?

[neon terrace]

oh u mean w/o ap2

[plain river]

If they get locked into cursed slash with ap2 they just reset

[neon terrace]

yeah but if they got it in elysium or styx they could still win unless it's like 56+ heat

if theyre that insane at the sword

flurry is just crippling

[tight basin]

you avoid 2nd hammers with ap2

literally because of how many bad sword hammers

[cunning urchin]

You can win with Flurry too at 50ish.

[tight basin]

if you're forced into it from a 1 room exit, then you just pray you get something that doesn't hurt you

[cunning urchin]

Both garbage.

[plain river]

4 negatively affecting sword hammers

That’s huge odds to just end your run on second hammer

[tight basin]

the 57 arthur run avoided 2nd hammer because of that, which was mentioned in the description iirc

[plain river]

So you don’t take second hammer

[tight basin]

first hammer, you can just reset for generally

sorta i guess

idrk the strats for high heat sword runs

but im assuming at extremely high heat for sword, you either cope with a neutral first hammer and hope for a good 2nd, or reset for a good first hammer

assuming unmodded

[neon terrace]

yeah ik, but u could get forced into it in elysium if u come out of a shop or chaos, and in styx a hammer could be one of the skull tunnels

[tight basin]

you can get hammer from miniboss styx?

[neon terrace]

oh maybe not, but u can get them in styx tunnels fs lol what if u have the mod on and it shows the fountain's in a hammer tunnel

[tight basin]

but also like i said, if you get forced into 2nd hammer, you just pray you get something good out of it
if you get cursed slash, you either just reset or pray that you can play well

pray you get something good/neutral out of it

[neon terrace]

yeah but no way ur really resetting in styx

[tight basin]

i mean you can play it out

[neon terrace]

i feel like ppl who are that good could still win, like retrash or angelic

[tight basin]

but you have 40% health left on a melee weapon that isn't known for being good

like yeah people can probably pull it off if they're cracked

but also at the same time, your chances of winning drops so much

[cunning urchin]

That's not how the tunnels work, nor the mod.

Fountain will be in whatever tunnel you enter second if the modpack is set to 2-sack.

[tight basin]

oh i missed that comment lol

yeah whatever tunnel you choose 2nd will have the sack no matter what

[cunning urchin]

Whether the 4th chamber of a tunnel is the fountain is determined only when you enter the 4th chamber of a tunnel. And if the 4th chamber was another minichamber, it's determined again for the 5th chamber when you enter that one.

[vagrant crane]

basic achilles cast build?

[plain river]

Start with splash dash, then build from what you find in tart

[cunning urchin]

Crystal Beam > any Lady Artemis core > Crystal Clarity.

[neon terrace]

blizzard shot wrecks

[vagrant crane]

wow

i shalt trust our Lord and Savior

[neon terrace]

go flood shot - some demeter core - blizzard shot

[vagrant crane]

how is it with fo

[cunning urchin]

That's an Achilles build but not so much a Cast build specifically.

[plain river]

If you end up with artemis on strike -> force in ares for slicing shot and vice versa
If you end up with zeus on strike force in phalanx shot vice versa

[vagrant crane]

stygian or infernal

ill do crystal clarity cause i also need it for whatever that nonsense is

the prophecy

[twin cloak]

phalanx shot > lightning strike > lightning phalanx

[neon terrace]

why go stygian on a cast build lol

[vagrant crane]

idk

[vagrant crane]

did this one already

[twin cloak]

it's better if you get +1 stone

and some supplemental like glacial glare

[tight basin]

meme beam uses stygian generally

[cunning urchin]

Either works. Stygian has better potential for non-lodging Casts but heavily relies on getting Grasp from Master Chaos. Usually the go-to for Crystal Clarity, Hunting Blades, and Blizzard Shot though.

[neon terrace]

lightning phalanx on achilles has a run where they killed the champions in like 9 seconds afaik, stupid stronf

oh nvm i get it

[vagrant crane]

put more down i think

[tight basin]

glacial glare can make the beams last a while

[plain river]

Yup

[twin cloak]

infernal is so much more helpful before the build comes online I can't really stomach stygian

but that's a personal taste

[neon terrace]

I always take infernal over stygian even tho i prefer stygian bc infernal opens up slippery curse from chaos

[cunning urchin]

Blizzard Shot is worse than Crystal Clarity and Hunting Blades tbh but it's decent enough.

One issue with Blizzard Shot is that Flood Shot lodges and hence wants Infernal but Blizzard Shot doesn't lodge and wants Stygian lol.

[vagrant crane]

got khaos

[neon terrace]

but for cast builds i always take infernal anyway, bc i hate crystal beam and dont like relying on chaos boons/well items

[vagrant crane]

only got shot

sad

[twin cloak]

fully loaded 🤘

[vagrant crane]

what hammers u want

[neon terrace]

blizzard shot wrecks w infernal wdym, so many mini blizzards

[cunning urchin]

Blizzard Shot potential with Stygian is way higher.

[vagrant crane]

breaching skewer serrated point vicious skewer

[cunning urchin]

Can't compare.

[twin prawn]

Im tempted to try lp on hera bow

Should i though

[tight basin]

have fun finding your cast

[cunning urchin]

Can be alright with Infernal but can't reach the same potential.

[cunning urchin]

Ngl Lightning Phalanx is great, but I'd skip it on a Phalanx Shot build on Hera.

[twin prawn]

I wanted to do hunting blades on it but i feel like that takes way too much rng

[cunning urchin]

You don't need it, and you'll waste time chasing your bloodstones instead of picking them up right away and firing again immediately.

[twin prawn]

I mean i could always run the alternative option

Which regens my bloodstones

Every 3 secs

Shame that blade rifts dont cause doom

[cunning urchin]

So you want to wait 3 seconds instead of picking them up and firing again immediately.

[twin prawn]

I mean its the better option for hunting blades
Since you dont have to chase the blade rift

Imo

[cunning urchin]

Hera with Hunting Blades doesn't make a lot of sense lol.

[twin prawn]

Ik

But it would be funny

[vagrant crane]

poseidon

[twin cloak]

Hera crystal beam cold embrace

[cunning urchin]

If you're doing that, at least try Freezing Vortex instead lol.

[cunning urchin]

Not much synergy there.

I like Cold Embrace on melee.

Just form a triangle around a group with your Casts and beat them all up inside of that.

[vagrant crane]

ermm

grey side hustle purple recovery and swift stirke

whats the right cope pick

[cunning urchin]

Quick Recovery kinda decent if high heat. Otherwise just get the money, I guess.

[vagrant crane]

ooh yay artemiss

[twin prawn]

Alternative to zeus attack on rail if i dont get it during the forced spawn?

[cunning urchin]

Swift Strike if it's shield or bow with Flurry Shot.

[cunning urchin]

Take Electric Shot and hope for Lightning Strike later. Drunken Strike is fine with poms on it.

[gilded wedge]

I never notice quick recovery but I still take it a fair amount assuming my normal rate of dashing procs it

[vagrant crane]

aph on achilles?

nope nvm opens up duo

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, you'd need to watch a replay to see when it procs lol.

[neon terrace]

really? i thought it literally does pretty much nothing most of the time

[cunning urchin]

Well, a lot of the time you get hit because you dashed just a bit late, and it'll proc then.

[neon terrace]

yeah that's a pretty sgitty selection, which hammer did u take

[cunning urchin]

And heals through LC4.

[vagrant crane]

i gave up bc it wasnt for me

[neon terrace]

ohh i didnt know that

if it heals thru LC4 then ig it's not as bad as i thought

[vagrant crane]

it'

it'

[cunning urchin]

Anything that helps you survive just a bit longer can be good.

In high heat.

[twin prawn]

I mean lc4 is practically a no heal run right

[vagrant crane]

depends on what u consider heal

why the hell nemesis look so dumb

who made this silly sword

not nemesis

no self-respecting Lord would create this aesthetic monstrosity

[cunning urchin]

Lifesteal, Quick Recovery, and revives will still heal.

And your current HP still goes up when you increase max HP with Centaur Hearts or Darkness room rewards.

Or Premium Vintage.

[vagrant crane]

i gotta practice my zagbow more

[cunning urchin]

Makes those rooms a lot more valuable for high heat.

[vagrant crane]

does whatever flipside of cthonic vitality work

[gilded wedge]

don't think so

[vagrant crane]

does cthonic work actually cause ik thats affected by nourished soul

[gilded wedge]

but darkness does give you 5 max hp so maybe like a teeny bit?

[vagrant crane]

no it wouldnt

bc lc2 makes it heal 2

[cunning urchin]

Chthonic Vitality and Dark Regeneration don't heal with LC4, no.

Only the things I mentioned.

Lifesteal includes Guan Yu spin, Cursed Slash, and Draining Cutter.

[vagrant crane]

i used to be a huge fan of draining cutter

with my lvl1 talos

[cunning urchin]

Talos is a lot stronger if you cancel the pull/debuff immediately into a Dash and skip the Uppercut.

Can actually pull and dash forward to immediately get backstabs.

And you're not locked into a long animation for a mediocre Uppercut.

[neon terrace]

if u use draining cutter effectively u can actually heal a lot in normal js3 rooms but it just isnt practical most of the time and is way too slow, especially beyond tartarus

and ofc u always want breaching cross or long knuckle with fists anyway

[cunning urchin]

I don't think it's very useful in high heat except in Styx vs the small rats lol.

But if you need to do that, that means you don't have Touch of Styx Dark.

Which sucks a lot.

[tight basin]

could do it with ToSD anyways, sacrifice time for 100% starting hp lmao

[neon terrace]

yeah at high heat ofc it's pretty terrible, u will time out or just take more damage trying to use it. but in one of my 40 heat fist runs I actually healed a lot with it, got like 20+ HP in a few rooms. but I anvil'd in Styx before dad fight and luckiky exchsnged it with hammers that werent heavy knuckle

[vagrant crane]

anyone else cant play with music with zagbow

zagbow might be my new second favourite weapon, it's just so funnnnn

[plain river]

It’s a good enough cope pick on demeter

[vagrant crane]

i was on talos lol

anyways i might have screwed up

i forgot that artemis and dzeus had a duo

so now im getting rod instead of heart rend

[plain river]

That’s why we don’t open up unnecesary duos

R O D good though

[vagrant crane]

well

i had at first forgotten about heart rend

so tried to go for smair

[plain river]

Oh so

3 duos unlocked

And you want 1

[vagrant crane]

yep

well

i wouldn't be too sad about smair

[plain river]

this is why we pay attention to which boons we pick up

[vagrant crane]

well

i had taken each one intentionally

intending to get a duo

i was just being forgetful

[gilded wedge]

why do you always say dzeus?

[vagrant crane]

because

uh is dem good 4th

i have aph arty dzeus rn

arent all her duos like

meme beams

[plain river]

Yup

[vagrant crane]

yeah meme beam x2 and cold fusion

[plain river]

The only one you’ll open is cold fusion which is ~good

[vagrant crane]

welwl

im not really intending to be casting out here

im in ely with no hammers

whoops

[plain river]

Which aspect

[vagrant crane]

zagbow

[plain river]

Zagbow with no hammers by ely

[vagrant crane]

it's 20 heat though i could kill hades rn

[plain river]

Have you not seen any hammers or what

[vagrant crane]

i saw one

but didnt take it

in tartar sauce

[plain river]

Why not take it?

[vagrant crane]

it was like c4 and miniboss arty was being offered

[plain river]

Bow hammers are really useful

[vagrant crane]

welp

just got twin

so im fine

[plain river]

miniboss arty isn’t anything special since rarity on 90% of artemis boons doesn’t matter

[vagrant crane]

yeah yeah but funny purple

god why do all these duos suck

demeter ares

[plain river]

you had ares in pool?

[vagrant crane]

no

but it was offered in a shop

welp got rod

[plain river]

Apparently Freezing Vortex was good before they made it incompatible with hunting blades

[vagrant crane]

archers were made incompatible with my sanity

give me HEART REND!

ill do a little dance

welp

got smair

so i guess that's something

[tight basin]

really lmao

was the build hunting blades + freezing vortex

why would that be good when mirage shot exists

[vagrant crane]

whats vague lucifer

dzeusifer?

[warm shoal]

So tried the shield build and was unable to get any of the boons outside Aphrodites

But pomed it to 5

[bold wadi]

bro I got the duo boon heart rend and the sweet nectar duo boon which one should I choose?

I chose the heart rend boon

AND I JUST GOT SWEET NECTAR AGAIN FROM CHARON (from aphrodite)

[plain river]

No

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/795659377755422742/1066352483938607114/IMG_2811.png

[cunning urchin]

There's probably some clips of the interaction somewhere in this channel if you dig deep enough lol.

[raw elbow]

Regarding Hunting Blades and Freezing Vortex: I kinda wish that you could have both but only keep the tracking from Arte-Ares and the chill/smaller size from Deme-Ares with speed changes canceling out. Then again Im bad at timing and aiming casts so and I'm a fan of Chill so shrug

[plain river]

Wdym speed changes canceling out

[raw elbow]

I thought Arte-Ares increased the speed of the blades? If so, they would be as fast as normal blades, if not outright as slow as Deme-Ares alone.

Then again I'm thinking of slicing shot in particular: I dont remember if either duo affects the Dash or Aid

[plain river]

Actually I’m pretty sure it deos

I just remembered wrong

[plain river]

Neither affect dash or aid

[raw elbow]

Ah thanks.

[warm shoal]

This is second run and I still cant get Zeus/Athena to drop the boons I want

I need to level the keepsakes more?

[iron barn]

if you buffer sword special out of a dash do you still get i frames

[tight basin]

Leveling keepsakes don't do anything

Well it does but it won't help you for this

Prob just unlucky if you're not getting the right boons

[warm shoal]

I havent seen Zeus' call in like 5 runs

[tight basin]

Yeah that's not a keepsake issue lol

Unlucky

[winter cove]

Is it just me or fists are kinda underwhelming
Pretty much everything they do the rail can do better

[late wasp]

I feel the opposite

Love fists, hate rail

Demeter aspect can get huge damage and Gilgamesh is just absurd

[plain river]

Each rail aspect can also get huge damage off of special

[rose pelican]

I find rail a bit boring, specially Zag rail

Me sucking at it may be a factor

[winter cove]

Another factor could be that Eris rail is just broken

[lucid oar]

And hestia

[winter cove]

Especially with lightning attack

[rose pelican]

True, it just doesn't compare

[plain river]

Have you ever used spreadfire with zag rail

It’s the best melee aspect

[rose pelican]

Hahahah

But basically fist with no hit stun

[plain river]

Fist if fists was better

[late wasp]

The only clear I did with the rail was with Lucifer and Zeus on the attack

[rose pelican]

I know what im trying next

[plain river]

That is objectively the best strike for lucifer lol

[late wasp]

The build I've really wanted to try was Eris with Arti on the special and the multi-bomb hammer

[plain river]

And rocket bomb

[vagrant crane]

use hestia

[late wasp]

ok those where the names

cluster bomb and rocket bomb

[vagrant crane]

clockets

[late wasp]

then arti on the special

then eris aspect for the special absorb thing

[late wasp]

yeah no. I'm fully aware of its strength but I'm not going for the meta here I'm going for stuff that sounds fun

and that eris build sounds really fun

[vagrant crane]

hestia is fun

i find it much more fun than eris

also its*

and eris is meta

or as close as you can get to being such a thing

[late wasp]

huh

[lucid oar]

It was certainly the top for a while in speedruns

Not anymore tho

[vagrant crane]

still rather bit useful

hestia is so awesome though

if it's on your screen you can kill it

and you've got a decent chance even if it isn't

[lucid oar]

Bonk

[late wasp]

If there's a weapon I struggle with It would be Gilgamesh. I've only been able to do one clear with it despite having a really good build

[vagrant crane]

that's because it's gilgamesh

[tight basin]

Eris and hestia are both insanely strong and are both considered meta lmao

Eris tends to be easier for most people iirc

[vagrant crane]

how

eris so annoying

[tight basin]

Eris is face rolling, hestia is calculated button smashing

[vagrant crane]

hestia all you have to do is r mouse r mouse r mouse

[tight basin]

Optimal hestia play is insanely hard while eris can get away with less optimization

[vagrant crane]

most of the time i forget to even special

[tight basin]

That's basic hestia

[vagrant crane]

and i come out fine

yeah and its fun

[tight basin]

Low heat moment

And also you're not speedrunning

[vagrant crane]

i dont think most people are speedrunning

[tight basin]

I said optimal hestia play lmao

[tight basin]

Well what's the meta based on here then

Ik it's not everyone's cup of tea

[vagrant crane]

oh well yeah

when you're trying to aactually be good at the game

[tight basin]

But most people just find eris easier to get good results with

[vagrant crane]

ig for trying to be good

but for me just being braindead hestia was so easy

and eris ive never had fun with

[tight basin]

Eris is also brain dead just hit every button at the same time

Like unironically

[vagrant crane]

but it doesn't do the big one hit chunks

special wwhatever

[tight basin]

I mean it doesn't have to

[vagrant crane]

that makes me happy

[tight basin]

The 75% is global

Lighting strike, jolted, splitting, rocket bomb

It just scales way too much

The only brain you need is to stand in the special

[vagrant crane]

2 hard for me

[tight basin]

I mean that's fine

I've just seen more people get results with eris than hestia

[vagrant crane]

i want to shoot chaos why do you only give me the cast boons when im not doing cast

i just did a hera run and i had to settle for money and chaos gives me shot and grasp

[raw elbow]

Chaos does as Chaos pleases

[vagrant crane]

chaos will do as i please when i return with some iron

whoops

i didnt know sniper did that

well

i just got the worst hammers of my lifetime

hope for anvil

[woeful pawn]

What hammers you got??

[vagrant crane]

sniper shot, which i didnt know was incompatible with twin shot, and concentrated volley

i had to take concentrated volley cause my other options were awful

as in detrimental

[tight basin]

What were the hammers

And aspect

Because no bow hammer actually harms you

I think

[cunning urchin]

Explosive Shot can suck sometimes.

[vagrant crane]

explosive shot

yes

[tight basin]

Oh I forgot that existed yeah that's fair

[raw elbow]

Which aspect? Im doubting Chiron since its ability makes Concentrated Volley more useful.

[vagrant crane]

zag

and yeah concentrated is the best hammer on chiron i believe

[plain river]

If your chiron is lvl 3 or lower then relentless is better

[vagrant crane]

who would play not maxxed chiron that sounds awful

doesnt it have like 3 arrows

[plain river]

4->5->6->7->8 iirc

[vagrant crane]

yeah

like 3

truly abhorrent

[plain river]

I mean dio builds manage fine with lvl 2

[vagrant crane]

ewwww

[plain river]

Hangover is amazing

[vagrant crane]

hangover is nastyyyy

[plain river]

Just realised I’m not Shackle Bestest Keepsake anymore

[raw elbow]

Aphro-Dio sounds like an toxic combo with Chiron Max 😈 ... a shame I'm meh with bow

[cunning urchin]

Chiron is pretty easy to play since you don't really need Power Shots.

[vagrant crane]

nobody ever told me how wild flurry shot is

[tight basin]

It's good for every compatible bow lol

best on hera, good as a 2nd pick on zag bow, and one of the few atk hammers you'd want on chiron

[vagrant crane]

it and triple melt

[fringe jacinth]

whats a good build to beat charon?

any weapons to use or avoid?

[gilded wedge]

it’s mostly about learning the fight to beat it consistently

[plain river]

Literally anything

[plain river]

It really depends on the aspect and it would be whatever is a regularly good build on said aspect tbh

[tight basin]

also depends where you fight him

[plain river]

I mean in tart a good build to fight charon with is anything other then sword with negative hammers

[tight basin]

Basically just sounds like "git gud" lol

[twin prawn]

I tried lvl 1 chiron once

It was agonizing

It was basically zag bow but funny special tracking

[uncut oar]

First tjme i fought charon was in tartarus and i somehow beat him

2 death defiancea lost tho

[worldly pier]

Hey, I don't really took it down, it just expired and I don't think I even remember the credentials ^^
This guide was made by a dinosaur anyway, people should probably follow newer/better players guide/advice

[cunning urchin]

There's some small optimizations here and there since then probably, but it's still the best Eris guide. And no one writes a new one because there's yours already.

Perhaps you could upload a pdf version to your Google drive or something that people can link to?

[vivid pike]

anyone have build ideas for shield, chaos aspect

[cunning urchin]

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide

That has some nice builds for the aspect.

[vivid pike]

Thank you!

[grand zenith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1036374758385791087/1066734434201653318/image.png

Which one?

[cunning urchin]

You'll need to be more specific.

What aspect, what build do you have now?

[uncut oar]

do you use special or attack more

[cunning urchin]

Tbh both of them are usually just cope picks at best.

Unless you're going for Merciful End, or maybe Divine Flourish start on sword high heat.

Can be fine if they're high rarity.

[grand zenith]

Gilga, Vengeance build. My cores are demeter shot and Zeus dash.

[grand zenith]

Attack.

[cunning urchin]

What's the third option she's offering?

[uncut oar]

then there's your answer (remember im generally a big moron)

[cunning urchin]

If you use Attack a lot, all the more reason to be picky about what you take on it.

[uncut oar]

i mean athena's is preety good esp with a spammable one like the fists

[cunning urchin]

It's not really.

[lucid oar]

Flat damage is preferred

[cunning urchin]

Fine at high rarity, but these are common. And no good way to scale her damage. At best you get Blinding Flash for backstab damage and Deadly Reversal for some crits.

[uncut oar]

what flat damage things even are there for that slot

[cunning urchin]

Doom, Hangover, Lightning.

[uncut oar]

doom is moreso just dps not really flat damage

[cunning urchin]

It's literally flat damage.

[lucid oar]

It’s not dependent on base damage, it is literally flat damage

[uncut oar]

i know but attack speed doesnt really matter on it

its more flat dps

[cunning urchin]

Nobody mentioned attack speed.

[acoustic skiff]

I think his point is that it doesn't matter if you have fists or bow, doom takes same amount of time to trigger so it's not like zeus attack which benefits from speed

[cunning urchin]

Doom is BiS on Gilgamesh Attack. It's far from BiS on bow. Probably only Tempest Strike is worse on bow.

[uncut oar]

what does bis stand for?

[valid dagger]

best in slot

[uncut oar]

oh ok

[cunning urchin]

Anyway, Divine Strike and Divine Flourish are both pretty weak on Gilgamesh, especially at common, and open a duo with Lady Demeter in that build that you don't really care for. Best option is probably whatever the third option is.

Deflect on the Special can help a bit with applying Maim more safely, so that's worth considering. Especially since the damage of the Dash-Upper itself doesn't really matter too much anyway.

If you take the Special, you wouldn't wanna pom it.

Taking Special will also make it easier to get an Attack that you'd actually want.

Because that'll be the only open priority slot.

[warm shoal]

Is zeus shield best shield form?

[cunning urchin]

Beowulf for like 99.9% of content.

That's the hidden shield aspect.

Zeus better for close to max heat, but Zag Shield is up there too.

All of the shields are very strong except for Chaos Aspect.

Zeus shield is up there for highest skill ceiling. Not an easy aspect to master.

[iron ether]

I feel like divine strike and flourish really only work with the spear, the sword, and the shield sometimes. I don't particularly like using them for any long range weapons or even the twin fists.

[ionic crown]

they work on any decent damage single hitter

not bad on gun special, fists special

[raw elbow]

Divine Flourish on Fists is also the best way to get Merciful End; otherwise you'll have Curse of Pain (Doom Special) and Divine Strike instead of the other way around.

(Also any %based boon is nice on Demeter fists)

[cunning urchin]

They're never a first choice unless you're building for Merciful End.

But if you start Tidal Dash on bow for example and she offers epic Attack, you just take it.

[raw elbow]

For using or selling?

[cunning urchin]

You use it lol.

[raw elbow]

Ah; I missed the bow part tbh. Honestly I lve gotten into the habit of picking higher rarities if nothing works just to sell later.

[cunning urchin]

Wouldn't recommend it.

Might be something you do in high heat with UC in some cases.

[plain river]

Curse of Pain/divine strike for ME only works on zeus shield

[raw elbow]

I actually want to try a kind of meme build with Shield-Zeus with Ares/Dio/Zeus Special and an Aphro/Athena/Deme dash and just let the shield chase me through enemies on the return.

[late wasp]

what build would work best with Rama

Trying to get the hidden aspects prophecy

[tight basin]

A beefy % attack, Aphro is very good (ideally not common), or you can go for Artemis because crits, any high rarity % attack can do except Poseidon (avoid that one), for the Special you want flat damage, it's not hard to come by, usually not worth forcing tho, Ares Dio Zeus are the main ones, you can go for Demeter and try to get Killing freeze, it can work pretty well, for the Dash there arent many options because most of them are either anti-synergy or just dont do anything, Artemis however is probably the best in slot dash, because Rama relies on dash strikes and getting dash strike damage is just good, Athena is a good one too because deflecting is nice, another important thing for Rama is hammers, ideally you want Triple Shot or Twin Shot for your first hammer, if not offered you can go for Perfect or Point Blank, and for the second hammer you usually want Perfect or Point Blank (assuming Triple or Twin first) but the order can be the other way here, if you get Perfect Shot as first hammer then it's fine too, hammers to avoid are Sniper shot (blocks Twins shot) and also doesnt do anything, and Repulse shot, Explosive is a bit of an odd one, it's nice in some scenarios but hard to play, Chain shot is okay, wont do much in bosses. Rama is difficult and needs practice but it's really good when it comes to heat especially, it's a good idea to watch vods of people who are good at it and try to implement their movement and decision making in your runs

Thanks MiKe

[late wasp]

Ok I think I know what I can do with this

I kind of wish there was a voice channel or something on here so I could stream this run

[raw elbow]

Ok ... so after going through Styx clearing out rooms ridiculous fast with a heavy Zeus build for Bow-Chiron, I decide to try and recors my fight with Hades to try and see how fast this build was.

... From the moment the HP bar fills up and Im ablentonact to the final hit of the second phase was less than two minutes. I dont know if this is anything extraordinary to anyone else, but this felt so ... satisfying? Like even with Fists I dont think I'm this fast.

Build was Tidal Strike (C8)+Lightning Flourish (C10)+Tidal Dash (C4), Splitting Bolt (L1)+High Voltage (C4)+Double Strike (E3)+Static Discharge (E1), Breaking Wave/Typhoon's Fury (R1), Sea Storm (D1), Relentless Volley+Point Blank Shot. Also had Trippy Shot (E1) and a few other passive Dio buffs and Battle Rage (E1) from Ares, but the former didnt do much except for Strong Drink, and the latter I didnt notice tbh.

[raw elbow]

Do you have a channel on Twitch or YT?

[late wasp]

no

I am no content creator

I was just wanting additional guidance on this run because I have never used Rama before

I've only ever done Hera or Chiron

and even then I seldom use the bow

[raw elbow]

Ah ... I mean you can still record with OBS and upload it so others can give you critique.

[worldly pier]

The (awesome) speedrunner community managed to host a version here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12mccSl9SRsrval1qJO_UwIoyylflzbRU/view

[cunning urchin]

Thanks!

[plain river]

Oh btw thunder flourish only procs like 1-2 times per enemy hit with a chiron flourish due to zeus lightning bolt cooldowns

[cunning urchin]

Thunder Flourish Chiron is sad.

[worldly pier]

You're welcome, I'm amazed to see you're still here helping poor souls through this game ^^

[cunning urchin]

Actually started playing again recently, too!

After Hades 2 announcement.

Gotta warm up.

[raw elbow]

Yeah in the beginning it was pretty ... bad ... but once I got the buffs it seemed to have picked up the damage potential.

[plain river]

that's just because zeus works better with more zeus lol

and you hit like every lightning bolt support boon

[tight basin]

Double strike also has a higher percentage than it shows lol

[plain river]

turns out zeus boons pop off when you live the dream and hit every t2 that matters

who would've guessed

[raw elbow]

Lol fair

[late wasp]

ok

I unfortunately lost to Theseus, but here's the Rama run

hm. Where do I upload it? I can't on this channel

[tight basin]

If it's a pic you send the image link or upload to imgur

[raw elbow]

My guess is (if it is a video) you have to upload it separately to like YouTube or something and then link it here.

(If itnhelps you can have the video itself unlisted on YouTube so only people younshare the link with can see it)

[late wasp]

the vid is so close to uploading

[rose pelican]

I still can't get myself to go with Lasting Consequences

I rely too much on being able to heal

[late wasp]

ok this is just too much. Its one thing having to wait for it to upload but to do all this extra stuff because the video is longer than 15 minutes? I'll just dm the file to those interested

[tight basin]

I uploaded a video yesterday that was like 20 minutes and it was fine

[proper furnace]

Practice stubborn defiance time

[raw elbow]

^ I heal using Stubborn Defiance if needed; not always possible in Tart or Elys because I need bomb rooms to heal after, and Styx is a no go for healing, but it also makes Asphodel easier for me since I can heal to 30% max in any room, even the first, the fountain, the shop, and Eurydice.

[proper furnace]

You also start genersting a feeling for when just let the enemies kill you

Aka at the last wave of enemies

[gilded wedge]

If you see Patroclus in elysium it helps a lot as well

[proper furnace]

Patty on sd my beloved

Also athena dds trick

[raw elbow]

I need to get better at that tbh; it would make Styx better.

And I honestly passed up Pat's room until I started using Stubborn Defiance and LC4, and then I realized his Touch of Styx Dark makes Stubborn Defiance heal for 80% instead of 45% (half of 30 is 15, hence my thought process), and it lasts long enough to go through one or two Styx chambers and still be up for Hades.

That said, the one time he got me Kiss of Styx was ... disappointing ... I literally still had all the DDs that run

[proper furnace]

Also check your charon wells for the normal touch of styx

[raw elbow]

^ this; honestly Id say get certain well buffs when you can. Nail of Talos seems decent for breaking armor fast if you dont have an armor-shred boon, and if youncan afford the hit to HP the Blood Price one (Price of Midas?) is also good in general.

[late wasp]

I'm going to try a fog shield build

get trippy flare on beowulf and go for all the things that modify how the fog behaves

[proper furnace]

If you mean scin feast and ice wine they do stack

You mainly want mirage-poms-extra casts tho

[tight basin]

Scintillating feast and ice wine are easier to get tho

[proper furnace]

But they arent straight double dmg

You also want your usual zeus stuff for scin feast to be funny

[plain river]

Scin feast should be uselss

If your trippy shot/flare isn’t instakilling something is wrong

[tight basin]

Fds funny tho

[late wasp]

Apparently you can get Mirage Shot with Arti call and Posi dash

the more you know

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I ALMOST BEAT EXTREME MEASURES HADES

LITERALLY ONE MORE RUSH WOULD HAVE DONE IT AND I DIED RIGHT AS I CHARGED IT'

[neon terrace]

yeah em4's rough

which is why i turned it off for ap2 cp1 😂

[tight basin]

i turned it off for ap2 dc1 lmao

[twin cloak]

ok 40

[opal trench]

how the heck are you supposed to use chaos shield, I think Im getting more dps without using the special at all

[cunning urchin]

That's... that's how you get more DPS, yeah.

[opal trench]

then.... whats the point of the special

[cunning urchin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[opal trench]

clearly im doing something wrong

the special cant be that useless

[cunning urchin]

What's funny is even if you get the best Special hammer for it, Explosive Return, you'd do use the normal single shield throw a lot more than doing the Bull-Rush > 5 shield throw.

[opal trench]

...... then why not just... use zagreus aspect?

[cunning urchin]

That's what I would do, yeah.

[opal trench]

so it indeed is... useless?

[cunning urchin]

You can do builds like... Thunder Flourish with Static Discharge, and then maybe Heartbreak Strike and get Smoldering Air with either Zeus' Aid or Dionysus' Aid.

Or maybe Heartbreak Strike + Drunken Flourish for Low Tolerance.

[opal trench]

the throw doesnt pierce tho does it?

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish for Heart Rend.

[cunning urchin]

Right.

[opal trench]

I regret everything

should not have spent the blood

[cunning urchin]

The 5 shields spread out in a star pattern and bounced, I think, once back in pretty much all of early access, so it was super easy to cheese rooms by just Bull-Rushing away from enemies and then throwing your 5 shields without aiming at anything. DPS was never great, but it was pretty much top 2 for high heat because of it, and like... 9/10 people who did their first 32 Heat would use Chaos Aspect for it. So they probably nerfed it to the current shotgun spread instead because of that when the game was fully released.

And underestimated how much it would drop in effectiveness because of it.

[opal trench]

im not even at 5 im at like 3 shields

[cunning urchin]

Oh lol.

RIP.

[opal trench]

that doesnt seem very fast

I mean theres the time limit punishment too right?

[cunning urchin]

That's why you needed epic Static Discharge at the highest heats, yeah.

https://youtu.be/y8Af5Ur1Q6M

That was the high heat WR back in early access.

[plain river]

Make chaos like chiron so whatever you bullrush into gets a target on them lol

[cunning urchin]

So...

Worse Chiron?

[valid dagger]

Would that really help

[opal trench]

chiron but slower?

[plain river]

No not really either way you’re using shield special

[late wasp]

Had to pause a Beowulf run for classes but I FINALLY got fully loaded for the mirage build

And thanks to chaos giving me 2 bloodstone boons I have 7 stones

If this doesn’t kill EM4 Hades I don’t know what will

And yes I do have mirage shot

[neon terrace]

Tons of people still like Chaos a lot, it's really not that bad

[acoustic skiff]

I cleared my first 32 heat with Chaos, didn't even know it used to work differently

[raw elbow]

I am absolutely livid with my current health--went to try and test the times for certain bosses comparing Mort vs Battie, and wound up with an awesome (to me) Hangover build for Fist-Demeter (Dio, Ares, Arte, Aphro). Was taking notes on my progression so I could Give Up after/during the Hades fight and go through the run seed again using the exact same path as well.

Unfortunately, I not only botched recording the Theseus fight and thus not have a reliable means to measure the duration, but I died to a non-elite end room in Styx because I couldnt breathe well enough to keep brain actually functioning at that speed, so I cant reset the seed.

That said, the build was fun despite only getting three of the four duos I would have wanted (Curse of Nausea would have been icing), and the two times I did use Mort I got 30s on Tis in Tart and about 16s for Dire Heads in Aspho.

[rose pelican]

Wow those times

[cunning urchin]

It's not bad because base shield is good, not because the aspect adds anything to it.

It was probably the most popular aspect for much of early access. Now it's a punchline.

Casual players enjoy it, sure. But I was talking about effectiveness.

[wind marten]

I would rather use Zag shield than chaos

[raw elbow]

Thanks (I think? Not sure if those are good times or not tbh); I will say the dire heads boss was risky because I activate Than the first time Smasher landed, then tanked a hit from it so it would land in the death zone in time to get hit).

Tisiphone is easy to hit with Mort though; actually just got a 25s time with new run with a worse build by just smashing the summon button as soon as the screen went black the second time.

[rose pelican]

They're good they're good

[feral night]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/506234269287448577/1067120185607196733/FjFggdkXkAEPbar.jpg?width=1184&height=991

[cunning urchin]

@turbid needle can find a couple of Malphon guides here for speedrunning: https://www.speedrun.com/hades/guide/1i726

[raw elbow]

As a Malphon main, thanks for the link (even if it wasnt for me).

May be a while though; wiped at base Lernie so I need to address my health issues before I try to do any serious stuff (or else I'll just stress myself out and cause more issues for myself).

[turbid needle]

Thanks! I will take a look

[late wasp]

@opal trench I’ve done the vast majority of my clears on Chaos aspect. If you ask me the multi-shield throw can be very fun, especially when you’re doing a Sea Storm build

[meager plover]

tips for build on the zagreus sword? i don't know which is better or etc.

[cunning urchin]

Go-to DPS rotation for Zag Sword is Special > Dash-Strike x2 > repeat.

[stray kestrel]

will hydralite gold do anything if im 100% LC

[cunning urchin]

Nope.

[stray kestrel]

damn

[cunning urchin]

You'll normally want Touch of Styx Dark if you're doing a run with LC4.

[stray kestrel]

so what should i pick then if im sd and have 15 more rooms of touch of styx

[cunning urchin]

Touch of Styx Dark still.

It's +50% healing from revives.

[stray kestrel]

i have 11 + 14 touches of styx

but okay, if u say so

first time making it so far with 32 heat

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, the ones from the Well give +10% healing.

Touch of Styx Dark gives +50%.

[vagrant crane]

blindfold moment

[stray kestrel]

do they all stack or

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[stray kestrel]

ay

[cunning urchin]

So you'll heal back to 100% for now.

[vagrant crane]

it should go over

150% max health

[cunning urchin]

Probably don't ask the same question in multiple channels though.

[stray kestrel]

OMG

ITS FULL

amazing

and its for 10 more rooms

maybe i can make it to hades

[cunning urchin]

Touch of Styx Dark normally lasts until dad if you get a 2-sack.

[meager plover]

Then no basic no?

[cunning urchin]

You mean no standing Attack?

Yeah.

[vagrant crane]

zagsword

[cunning urchin]

You just rotate Special and Dash-Strikes and weave in Casts here and there sometimes for Boiling Blood or to get a quick extra hit in.

[stray kestrel]

damn i got just 10 mins for styx

gotta get super lucky on sack

[cunning urchin]

10 minutes is plenty.

[vagrant crane]

👁️

[stray kestrel]

AYYY

got 2 room sack

and then bought hermes

got +30% movespeed while having rush delivery

8 mins for hades

[cunning urchin]

@meager plover for builds you can refer to this guide. https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide

[stray kestrel]

when should i use batty on hades

[vagrant crane]

whatever phase you wanna shorten

[stray kestrel]

1st ig because 2nd is piss easy with shield

[vagrant crane]

doing it in 1st make sure not to do it right near a health boundary or else some dmg will be wasted

[meager plover]

Thanks

[stray kestrel]

huh my run was so OP i did it in 2 mins w/o losing acorn i think

[late wasp]

alright I've been having a huge craving for the Crystal cast build but I don't know how to build for it, what things should I set up before I make the escape

[vagrant crane]

put on athena keepsake and pretend phalanx shot is memebeam

[stiff stone]

You can build around it with Artemis and Poseidon

[late wasp]

Doesn't Aphro have a duo where the beams follow you? Wouldn't that one be more optimal?

[stiff stone]

You could try for that as well. I'm personally not a fan

[tight basin]

Artemis duo is better

[late wasp]

Also which bloodstone type do I pick? The recharging one or the one that gives you 3 of them you have to pick up

[tight basin]

Tracks enemies

[tight basin]

Stygian

[stiff stone]

The 3 is better for this imo

[late wasp]

And I know to get the Demeter keepsake first but which do I choose afterwwards

[stiff stone]

Artemis and Poseidon if they don't show up

If they do, your preferred utility keepsake

The hourglass could be good

[late wasp]

I'd imagine Pierced Butterfly would be useful since you're letting the cast be the damage dealer here

[stiff stone]

Maybe if you use a range, wep, sure

The thing with those is that you still need to supplement with attacks and what not

[late wasp]

alright

[stiff stone]

Aspect of Achilles or Poseidon should work well

[late wasp]

for a wep I'll just do gilgamesh for the extra dashes

[stiff stone]

That too

Good luck and have fun!

[late wasp]

Got an epic Glacial Glare after 1 roll and started with the rare cast

[raw elbow]

I take it that you are in the middle of a run, but Id say itd depend on melee vs ranged.

For Melee, Demeter-Cast+Aphro-Dash/Aid+Athena-Dash/Aid+Artemis-Special; aim for Aphro-Demeter Duo, Aphro-Athena Duo, and Artemis Legendary (Artemis+Athena could be good as well but not sure if the crit chance applies to beam hits); Drop all the crytsals, dash to flank the enemy, let beams deal backstab damage.

(Someone else feel free to tell me this is a bad idea :P)

[plain river]

This uh

How do I put it
Either way it’s meme beams still

[plain river]

The crit chance would affect the beam hits

I think you might have an issue with cold embrace losing about 50% of it’s dps as you dashstrike through enemies

Just off the top of my head thinking about it

I am completely ready to get corrected here

[cunning urchin]

Nyaanyaa's Crystal Clarity Guide
(1) Start Stygian Soul and Crystal Beam. (Achilles Aspect is best for the +150% Cast damage, but any aspect can work.)
(2) First Duo Boon you open is Crystal Clarity (with Lady Artemis). Can check codex for requirements. Make sure you don't open up any other Duo Boons for those two gods until you have Crystal Clarity. If you pick up a boon from another god and you're not sure if any of them open up a Duo Boon with Lady Artemis or Lady Demeter, check your codex.
(3) At the same time as you're looking for Crystal Beam, look for Glacial Glare from Lady Demeter. If she's not offering Glacial Glare, DO NOT pick up Lady Demeter's Attack, Special, Dash, Call, or Snow Burst until you have Glacial Glare (because they will pollute her boon pool which Chill tier 2 boons that make it a lot harder to get Glacial Glare). Take her other boons instead until you have Glacial Glare.
(4) Take all Chaos Gates you find and look for Grasp (top priority) and Shot (2nd priority). Reroll if you have to. Get at least one Grasp.
(5) Check every Well of Charon for Prometheus Stones and Braids of Atlas (always in the bottom row). Nail of Talos is also nice because it applies to your Cast as well. Use Bone Hourglass in Elysium and Styx.

(6) Once you have Crystal Clarity, it's fine to open other Duo Boons if they look helpful.
(7) Once you have Glacial Glare, it's fine to pick up one of her boons you weren't supposed to pick up earlier, and then after that look for Killing Freeze (1st) and Arctic Blast (2nd) from her.

That variant has the highest potential, but it relies heavily on finding more bloodstones (Grasp from Master Chaos or Prometheus Stones from Wells of Charon).

You can also start with Infernal Soul instead for better consistency at the bottom end, but the top end of the build will be much lower. Glacial Glare is also a much lower priority if you're using Infernal Soul.

IMO you're better off starting Stygian Soul if you're committed to doubling down on Crystal Beam anyway. But Infernal can definitely work.

Usually the only other Duo Boon you might care for in the build is Mirage Shot.

[late wasp]

I'm glad you told me this because I scrapped my original run to pick up Stygian soul for the casts

[cunning urchin]

Gods' Legacy probably ideal to make sure you get Crystal Clarity asap.

[late wasp]

It seems like getting the most out of this build is getting Clarity and Glare ASAP

[cunning urchin]

Pretty much.

Well, first priority is getting a second bloodstone tbh.

[late wasp]

Which I was able to do temporarily since I got one of those stones from the well

[cunning urchin]

If you see Lady Artemis and see a Chaos Gate in Tartarus, you enter the Chaos Gate and look for Grasp.

And just force her in Asphodel with her keepsake.

[late wasp]

got it

[late wasp]

alright had to scrap ANOTHER un but this one is the one

got a rare Glacial Glare and Clarity all in Tartarus

[vagrant crane]

do you have a google doc with all your guides

[cunning urchin]

#h1-builds-and-combat message

Haven't added a couple new ones yet.

[late wasp]

I did it

hades down with the crystal build

[cunning urchin]

[late wasp]

look at victory boasting I posted a screenshot

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I saw.

GGs!

[late wasp]

Thanks

[near sundial]

Just got the aspect of Hera for the bow. Can I get some build ideas?

[lucid oar]

Focus on the cast and Pom it a ton

Crush shot is a good one

Good support boons include snow burst, quick reload (Hermes), rush delivery (Hermes), and any extra casts and cast damage you can find

[near sundial]

Yeah, that's what I thought to do. first thought was to get artemis' cast because I haven't unlocked Demeter yet.

that or maybe someone else's. First one that came to mind other than Artemis' was Dionysus' cast, but I feel like that'd be more situational.

[proper furnace]

use crush shot

hera deletes the only downside of the short range

[lucid oar]

Artemis cast struggles a bit compared to aphro because it has lower damage and AOE and the crits don’t make up for it

[near sundial]

So Aphro over Artemis?

[proper furnace]

ye

[near sundial]

Nice, thanks.

Still gotta work towards my Fate List though, I'm missing only one for Ares' and Athena's boon list lol

I'll do some shield and sword runs to look for those and then start practicing with Hera.

[neon terrace]

Just had the absolute worst Hades fight of my life lmao, wasnt even EM4 and I used 2 DDs w/ an insanely cracked Hera build, I don't think the rest of my 32 heat all weapon streak attempt is gonna go great

[plain river]

The biggest issue is using dd’s

SD ftw

[neon terrace]

like we're talking I had 7 casts from Chaos and Fully Loaded, Parting Shot, Mirage, PStatus w/ Curse of Agony and Epic Crush Shot, and Curse of Longing

[neon terrace]

It was an SD and toof, doesnt matter tho bc it's only 32 heat, shouodnt even need to use the SD

[plain river]

bruh

So it wasn’t 2 dd’s then

Anyways 32 heat taking lc4 SD is easier then the other options I’ve tried

[neon terrace]

semantics, it's the same thinf

[plain river]

Not really at all

[neon terrace]

how

im saying i used an SD and a DD in a fight, theres no difference between that and 2 DDs, other than that SD restores a bit less hp

[plain river]

you used an sd and a skelly revive

Not 2 dds

or 1 sd and 1 dd

[neon terrace]

theres no practical difference whatsoever, and skelly's tooth literally says it gives u an extra dd

[plain river]

It changes how you approach rooms

[neon terrace]

no it doesnt

at all

[plain river]

and skelly’s tooth gives you a dd but it doesn’t operate the same as a regular dd

[plain river]

You don’t throw yourself in the way of an attack to reset your sd?

[neon terrace]

maybe for high heat runners and speedrunners it could change how they approach rooms, for bums like me it changes nothing

[neon terrace]

I never do that in boss fights

[tight basin]

with SD you don't care if you die, with DD you need to save that for bosses
tooth, yeah sure you can make a case and call that a DD but you can't restore it

assuming you were in dad fight, then yeah you wouldn't approach the fight in a different way

[plain river]

It’d be the rest of the run leading up to that point

[neon terrace]

Im specifically talking about the situation where I said I used 2 DDs in the Hades fight when it was actually an SD and toof but this guy says there's some big difference between the two

[tight basin]

i mean there is def a difference

sd restores less, 20% is a considerable amount

in dad fight, you'd fight the same way tho

and they'd function the same way in dad fight other than hp restoration

i mean it's just semantics it doesn't really matter frankly

[plain river]

It does when said semantics cause me to recommend using what they were already using

I’m being unnecessarily defensive rn because my sacred SD has been attacked

[neon terrace]

this is what i was saying

[tight basin]

i mean calling them DDs was just misleading

but just clarify afterwards and it should be fine lmao

def wouldn't call them the same thing tho

[neon terrace]

in that situation it's the same thing

[plain river]

I should go to sleep before I give Nyaanyaa things to correct me on

[tight basin]

because they are different, they'd only be considered the "same" in dad fight

[neon terrace]

i just said i used 2 DDs in the fight bc it's easier to say and theyre practically the same thing

[plain river]

My response would not have even happened if you mentioned sd

[tight basin]

that's true lol

better to be take the time and be accurate most of the time

[plain river]

I would’ve had actually nothing to say in response

[tight basin]

esp if recounting your run, because saying wrong things would lead to things like this lmao

[plain river]

I should go do a 32 heat shackle run

I found my papers the other day in my room

1 was 20 heat shackle with all aspects with a strikethrough

[tight basin]

32 hestia shackle would be easy

[plain river]

The second was 32 heat shackle with aspect of zag bow struckthrough and the rest were unstruck

[tight basin]

okay so get through the rest of them

what's stopping you other than a reasonable sleep schedule

[plain river]

uh

work
and school
and volunteering
and social events

Well

It’s 1:30am and I don’t have anything important to do today

[tight basin]

therefore it's hades time

clearly

[plain river]

It’s not 7:48

[tight basin]

not with that attitude

[neon terrace]

man i really like hades spear - until i have to fight a boss w it

[whole sonnet]

Anyone know if dash strike and/or spin attack count for aspect of achilles bonus damage?

[cunning urchin]

Yes and yes.

[whole sonnet]

ty

[rose pelican]

Achilles + serrated is mmmmhhhh

[mortal sapphire]

Still a complete newbie (only ever cleared 6 times) but in one run earlier today I found a boon that makes each cast stone on the floor strike lightning every second for some large number (70?) and it made beating final boss so simple... just throw the stones whenever I accidentally pick up or they fly back, and watch boss continuously drain health. All I do with zag is trying to live / get in some hits safely. This seemed like a super cheap way of winning...

[whole sonnet]

Yep it's pretty strong. It's the artemis/zeus duo boon.

The game isn't "balanced". There's lots of great combos that make winning trivial on most heats.

But beware chasing, easy to go a whole run trying for one duo boon and the game can just decide not to give it to you, although theres some things you can do to strongly increase your chances.

[mortal sapphire]

Yeah I wasn't even aware this thing existed and was just surprised! Love this game 🙂

[proper furnace]

Lightning rod my beloved

[dark sail]

but hades be sex machine right

[raw elbow]

Any suggestions for Sword-Nemesis?

[stiff stone]

Aphrodite and Artemis, with their duo if possible since it synergizes well with Nemesis

[cunning urchin]

Nemesis Guide: #h1-for-new-players message

[raw elbow]

So ... question: I just got a Demeter boon with a Heroic Frost Strike, Rare Frost Flourish, and an Epic Rare Crop as the first options. Thing is I'm using Fists-Demeter and I only have an Epic Curse of Agony from Ares.

I went with Frost Flourish because having a percent damage buff on a charged special seems ok, but now I'm wondering if I should have gotten the Rare Crop instead to buff the Doom-Attack to Heroic.

Thoughts?

[lucid oar]

Probably the crop

And hope for Athena later to build into ME

[raw elbow]

Yeah that makes sense; either that or Aphro

[plain river]

Building into Curse of longing is not big brain

[proud jasper]

Having trouble getting a clear with Guan Yu’s aspect, any suggestions?

[cunning urchin]

Guan Yu guide: #h1-discussion message

[raw elbow]

From a pure damage perspective, I suppose not; Id argue that Curse of Longing is better defensively as the weakness status applies to all attacks made by the enemy afflicted by it, not just the attacks that happen to hit in the middle of a deflect action. Plus Unhealthy Fixation can potentially mitigate damage further by canceling the charmed enemies attack against you, and Curse of Longing could theoretically stack higher with Dire Misfortune applied multiple times (not sure on hownDire Misfortune and Curse of Longing actually work together tbh, but Im willing to concede that Ares-Aphro is better for survivability

[cunning urchin]

You don't build for Curse of Longing when you start with Doom. You might pick up Curse of Longing along the way if you start with Weak.

[late wasp]

I saw Haelian do Hera with Athena cast and now I yearn for it

He was doing a backstab setup with it but I'm more interested in getting Deadly Reversal, Mirage Shot, and Lightning Phalanx. But I have no idea where to put what

[tight basin]

artemis attack, posedion dash, zeus call/flourish

[plain river]

Athena strike -> arte special -> phalanx shot -> tidal dash and zeus call

[tight basin]

although this would also open lightning rod

[tight basin]

why athena strike lol

[plain river]

they said deadly reversal as well

[tight basin]

oh

this is cringe

yeah yours would work best probably

but also way too many duos to get reliably

esp with deadly reversal being limited to athena special and atk only, and you need her cast too

not impossible tho

[cunning urchin]

Deadly Reversal on Phalanx Shot Hera isn't too great tbh.

Parting Shot much better.

[plain river]

I was working with what I got lol

[late wasp]

I mostly care about Lightning Phalanx and Mirage Shot everything else is complimentary

[plain river]

Aphro strike —> phalanx shot -> zeus call

[cunning urchin]

I'd avoid Lightning Phalanx on Hera, probably.

As in, actively not take it if it's offered.

[late wasp]

I'm really not looking for effectiveness here I'm doing this because it looks fun

[cunning urchin]

Doesn't help to understand how effective or not it is vs other options, though.

@gusty rapids would you grab Lightning Phalanx on Hera if it's offered or avoid it? m thinking probably hurts more than it helps.

[late wasp]

Well I'm thinking that due to how it behaves it would be great for mobbing but meh on bosses

since the casts wouldn't have anything to bounce to

[tight basin]

with parting shot you're more likely to straight up murder them i think

[cunning urchin]

My point is you want your bloodstones to drop asap so you can one-shot the next mobs asap. You don't want them to fly to wherever.

[late wasp]

Well I have a shopping list now so off I go

[tight basin]

have fun lol

[plain river]

It hurts more for speed

[stiff stone]

Lightning Phalanx clears entire rooms, so unless you're talking absurd heat, it's good

[late wasp]

Oh you think I'm doing this with heat? Not at all

I want to have fun, not torture myself

[stiff stone]

Then pick it, and have fun, it's a blast

Might I suggest some Aphro for the duo with Athena

[gusty rapids]

never really played w phalanx on hera tht much but LP does sound fun

you will also probably lose your casts very quickly but for the first 10 seconds of the chamber it will be fun

[cunning urchin]

lmao

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too.

I think I did like 1 or 2 runs with Phalanx Shot on Hera myself.

[neon terrace]

calc risk or epic brilliant riposte

i have ddash but no other athena

no rolls

[cunning urchin]

What's the third option?

[neon terrace]

brilliant riposte opens up her legendary and it's asphodel

common phalanx shot lol

im using chaos shield on 32 heat

[cunning urchin]

Do you have UC on?

[neon terrace]

yeah but theres 2 rooms left and i have a ton of money

havent got a miniboss yet either

i didnt check if the next room is one lol im in a shop

[cunning urchin]

I'd grab Calculated Risk.

If you think you have too much money, just grab Hourglass in Elysium and have a good time.

Also, Calculated Risk very comfy for preventing deaths to projectiles from off-screen.

[stiff stone]

Yea, it will probably save you more damage than Athena's lego

[cunning urchin]

Phalanx Shot also always comfy btw, doesn't matter what rarity.

[cunning urchin]

I don't think so, but hoping for a legendary in the future when there's a good chance you'll have to purge Brilliant Riposte anyway... and when Calculated Risk is still in the pool and hurting your chances to get Divine Protection.

Doesn't make the most sense.

[tight basin]

Very high likelihood next chamber is miniboss

[neon terrace]

it was

and it was dio too so i couodve got calc risk anyway

ik it's usually a miniboss after a shop in aspho too idk why i didnt check

[cunning urchin]

Or, you know, you can get something more directly useful from him now.

[late wasp]

This phalanx build is going very well

[neon terrace]

like what

literally only prem vin could be good

from dio anymore

[late wasp]

I got a 4th stone and Lernie melted

swapped to arrowhead and its onto elysium and pray for duo's

[cunning urchin]

Premium Vintage, Strong Drink, Bad Influence, Numbing Sensation, high rarity Trippy Flare...

[stiff stone]

Most of Dios support boons are rly good imo

[neon terrace]

i have numbing sensation already

trippy shot would kinda suck

strong drink in elysium isnt great on lc4

[cunning urchin]

If you have LC4, then Positive Outlook kinda decent. Strong Drink still good though.

And idk why you don't want a good Cast, but then you also looked down on Phalanx Shot.

[neon terrace]

i mostly just cast for boiling blood tbh

[cunning urchin]

Trippy stuns, has high damage even at base, excellent pom scaling, and opens up his legendary.

Chaos Aspect doesn't care too much for Boiling Blood unless you have Charged Shot.

In which case, Trippy Shot is still a decent pick regardless, though less valuable.

[stiff stone]

How did you feel about having to pick up the shards, @late wasp ?

[late wasp]

If you mean picking up the stones after it wasn't a huge deal

[stiff stone]

I meant to say stones, yea. That's good!

[late wasp]

With a fully loaded shot it was pretty much a oneshot on everything, so pickup was very simple

[late wasp]

I finally got Shady

All I need is Antos and I’ll have all the companions

[cunning urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/eminem-hey-hello-hi-wave-gif-15504876

[late wasp]

Har Har slim shady

[neon terrace]

Zeus > Zag > Beo > Chaos

[tight basin]

Is this your shield rankings

[neon terrace]

of course

[tight basin]

Of how much you like them lol

[neon terrace]

zag shield is so nice

[neon terrace]

and how good they are

[tight basin]

Well beo is better than zag and Zeus but aight

[neon terrace]

zag u could argue from personal preference but def not zeus

[tight basin]

Beo is better in basically every way until over 60 heat

[neon terrace]

🧢

modded maybe but not normally fs

[tight basin]

Unmodded beo is still better the majority of the time lol

[plain river]

Unmodded still

[cunning urchin]

It's not even a contest.

[plain river]

…no

[neon terrace]

nahh zeus can handle getting garbage much better than beo can

[tight basin]

Beo just needs passion flare

Legitimately

[plain river]

[cunning urchin]

Meanwhile Beowulf mains doing 50 with every garbage Cast for fun lol.

[plain river]

Elaborate on how zeus does it better

[tight basin]

Also what kind of "garbage" would beo struggle with

Because you'd just start with a cast

And that's basically it

[cunning urchin]

Why are we elaborating when the results came in a long time ago already.

[vague gull]

what does the beowulf shield?

[tight basin]

Zeus starts with flourish sure but then wouldn't it need like at least 1 t2 Zeus boon to be good

[plain river]

I just want to know where they’re coming from

[tight basin]

It does the shield and big boom

[plain river]

Cast with bullrush

except it changes the casts from shots to flares

[tight basin]

Hera but bigger boom

[cunning urchin]

From the same place that ignores results for 32 Heat pacts.

[proper furnace]

hera but buggy

[tight basin]

Also that

Hera but big boom and buggy

[plain river]

Lmao fair

[neon terrace]

just got offered epic greatest reflex and rare hyper sprint in a tart shop

smfh

[tight basin]

Just get rd next

Take the hs

[neon terrace]

yeah ik, that's what im gonna do but it hurts so bad passing up epic gr

[tight basin]

True

[neon terrace]

Zeus just needs thunder flourish, legitimately

[tight basin]

I've tried that

[neon terrace]

zeus w thunder flourish and sub optimal hammers > beo w passion flare and sub optimal hammers

[tight basin]

It's not great compared to just cast on beo

[cunning urchin]

Skipping epic Greater Reflex legit not the play tbh.

[tight basin]

I've done shackle beo at 40 and Zeus with just thunder flourish at 40

Granted had mirage shot but it's also shackle beo so cut me some slack

[cunning urchin]

Zeus without Jolted or at least Double Strike lol.

[tight basin]

Thunder flourish only is really low dps and just struggles to get good damage in

It's certainly not the worst thing in the world, but it's really slow

[cunning urchin]

I'd rather play Zag Shield.

[tight basin]

And Zeus isn't a fast aspect to begin with

[neon terrace]

rolled twice and no rd on my 2nd hermes 😭

[neon terrace]

yeah it is bruh

[neon terrace]

mirage is insane

[plain river]

It took his 100 damage default cast to 200

So uh

Practically nothing compared to other beowulf flares

[tight basin]

It's like lvl 5 passion flare or something lmao it's just standard

[neon terrace]

that's a lot

still gets the dragon rush bonus

[cunning urchin]

Dragon-Rush is only attack damage.

[neon terrace]

i thought it affects the whole thing, that's why it does so much damage

[cunning urchin]

It does so much damage because Cast scaling gud.

The attack damage def helps, though.

[plain river]

No

[plain river]

Not compared to the good casts on beo

[neon terrace]

still a lot of damage

[plain river]

Hmm

Damn

Almost like

[neon terrace]

ok but it's my fastest shield by far and the only one i could do sub 10 on

it's not that slow

[plain river]

It’s your fastest shield

[neon terrace]

a lot of ppl can do sub 8 on zeus

so def not slow

[plain river]

Someone could have their fastest fists be zagreus, would that make zag better then demeter?

[plain river]

As many can with beo

[neon terrace]

zag fists are my best weapon

dodge chance is always nice and you don't have to think about using the special woth it

[plain river]

Does that make zag fists better then demeter

[tight basin]

That's just you

Beo is faster for many others

[plain river]

That’s what I’m saying

[neon terrace]

they are in many ways

[plain river]

…

[neon terrace]

yeah im js zeus isnt that slow, not trying to say it's one of the fastest or faster than beo

[neon terrace]

in overall power demeter could be stronger but zag is safer and easier to use

also better w plume than demeter

[plain river]

That means nothing

[tight basin]

It's one of the slower ones in regards to speedrunning

[neon terrace]

u said it did sub 7 recently though right