#h1-builds-and-combat | Supergiant Games | Page 40

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 3:16 AM

#

Win

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 3:16 AM

#

so same as all the others

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 3:16 AM

#

Well

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

sounds good

#

doom on special work?

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

You can make any aspect that takes aphrodite strike take any other +% based strike

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

aphrodite just is the coolest ever

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

vagrant crane doom on special work?

Doom special works, I think dionysus and zeus would both work better though tbh

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 3:18 AM

#

yeah i just need to get some dialogue from ares

#

same hammers?

#

LOL

#

2 duos in tartarus lol

#

smair and low tolerance

#

holy wow

#

twin shot and perfect shot are insane

#

wow

#

once you get the hang of it rama is super fun

#

also sorry for flooding this channel

twin prawn Jan 19, 2023, 4:04 AM

#

lightning phalanx build?

#

damn

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 4:09 AM

#

twin prawn lightning phalanx build?

Yup

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 4:10 AM

#

vagrant crane also sorry for flooding this channel

Not an issue lol

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:21 AM

#

I finally hit 5220+ obols entering dad fight shadesmile
But it’s with talos shadegrief

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:25 AM

#

what's wrong w that

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:31 AM

#

neon terrace what's wrong w that

Talos isn’t exactly the safest nor the most dps of aspects

#

And uh

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:31 AM

#

plain river Talos isn’t exactly the safest nor the most dps of aspects

it's still good

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:31 AM

#

I also

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:31 AM

#

like unless ur doing really high heat it's fine

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:31 AM

#

Purged like anything and everything

#

Except for a few crucial boons

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:32 AM

#

why

#

oh for the money

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:32 AM

#

to get to 5220+ obols

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:32 AM

#

what do u have left

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:32 AM

#

Yeah

#

I won

#

#h1-victory-boasting message

#

But it turns out your aspects usual dps and safety don’t matter when you have +3 dashes lol

#

I ended up taking 0 damage to my hp

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:33 AM

#

it was 13 heat bruh

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:34 AM

#

neon terrace it was 13 heat bruh

Yes
With a bad talos build aside from +3 dashes

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:34 AM

#

every aspect in the game is amazing at 13 heat

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:34 AM

#

fair enough

#

I just

#

saw that I was semilow

#

And don’t trust myself with fists

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:34 AM

#

ur build looks fibe

#

lvl 5 dio attack is great even if common

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:35 AM

#

The lvl5 dio attack is the sole thing holding it together

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:35 AM

#

pash dash is cool

#

special rarity doesnt matter since ur only using it to proc the debuff

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:36 AM

#

Tbh I’m just defending the anxiety I had over the possibility of losing the one run when I finally beat the extra challenge

#

I think I’ll do challenge of the month with all aspects

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:38 AM

#

plain river Tbh I’m just defending the anxiety I had over the possibility of losing the one ...

valid

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:38 AM

#

Since I’m already like 1/6 of the way there

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:40 AM

#

neon terrace special rarity doesnt matter since ur only using it to proc the debuff

I planned on selling it for more obols

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1065503567785504789/IMG_2793.jpg

#

Finally

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:44 AM

#

Niiiice

#

Add it to the board

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:45 AM

#

I did

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:45 AM

#

hell yeah

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:45 AM

#

First aspect (for me) to 5220+ was talos 💀

#

Time to look and see which other aspects haven’t been done

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:46 AM

#

which is a decent aspect so idk what the "💀" is for

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:46 AM

#

Talos is uh

#

One of the top 24 aspects for sure

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:46 AM

#

It’s not as good at challenges/heat/speedrunning

#

Very fun though

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:46 AM

#

It’s like

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:47 AM

#

I just cleared 40 with Talos earlier

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:47 AM

#

Decent feels like slightly an overstatement tbh

#

that doesn’t change that though?

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:48 AM

#

I suck ass at the game and I did 40 with Talos

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:48 AM

#

people have different preferences ¯_(ツ)_/¯

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:48 AM

#

so it cant be that bad

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:48 AM

#

its a hard game to be objective with either way

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:48 AM

#

language btw

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:48 AM

#

yeah rule 2

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:49 AM

#

neon terrace I suck ass at the game and I did 40 with Talos

Edit it or delete it, keep it clean

#

Anyways

#

I also suck at the game

#

But like

#

There are very few aspects I would think would have a harder time then talos at 40

#

It’s not unusable but it’s not up there

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:51 AM

#

ive done 40 with less than half the aspects, talos was one of them

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:51 AM

#

Point being

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:51 AM

#

I cant do 40 w/ beo, chaos, chiron, hestia, hera, etc that are considered some of the best in the game, but i can w talos, bc it's pretty solid

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:52 AM

#

neon terrace I cant do 40 w/ beo, chaos, chiron, hestia, hera, etc that are considered some o...

Chaos and chiron are not considered some of the best in the game

#

Ok well chaos maybe just purely because it is a shield but not because of what it does as an aspect

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:52 AM

#

plain river Chaos and chiron are not considered some of the best in the game

maybe not in this discord but outside of it they def are

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:53 AM

#

neon terrace maybe not in this discord but outside of it they def are

And the people outside of this discord are in the Hades stone age

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:53 AM

#

(lets make sure things dont get too heated)

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:53 AM

#

Aside from the people who are on speedcord and aren’t here

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 5:54 AM

#

But yeah congrats on big number

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:54 AM

#

No one’s submitted with zag rail yet so here we go

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:55 AM

#

plain river And the people outside of this discord are in the Hades stone age

bruh this game's last update was like 3 years ago lmao

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:56 AM

#

How is that relevant?

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:57 AM

#

the "Hades stone age" is meaningless, the only revolution this game has had is the mod which has sped up speedrun times and helped with clearing the absolute highest heat levels, it's not like ppl outside of here are missing tons of info

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:58 AM

#

they are missing tons of info

#

Unless reddit has evolved since the last time I checked it

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 5:59 AM

#

no they arent

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:00 AM

#

Ok lemme go check Hades reddit then

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:00 AM

#

even if they were, who are we to determine that? haelian put chiron and chaos in s tier in his aspect tier list, u think u know better than him? i wouldnt proclaim to, i cant even beat 50 heat

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:00 AM

#

sus

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:01 AM

#

zagbow is incredibly refreshing

#

so fun

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:01 AM

#

Now I know Haelian has the Nyaanyaa seal of approval™️ but that tier list ranking for those aspects is 🤨

#

Wait

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:02 AM

#

hestia B

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:02 AM

#

neon terrace even if they were, who are we to determine that? haelian put chiron and chaos in...

He put every other shield higher in S though right

#

I need to see this tier list

#

All I can say is Chiron is certainly not S tier

#

Chaos can be purely because it’s a shield

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:03 AM

#

chaos higher than xestija is crazy

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:03 AM

#

but it’s not good at it’s own gimmick

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

plain river He put every other shield higher in S though right

No he put zag in like B or C and Zeus in A

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

neon terrace No he put zag in like B or C and Zeus in A

Was that back in early access

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

Im not saying I like Chaos or Chiron, Im saying a lot of ppl do and consider them among the best Aspects

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

plain river Was that back in early access

idk

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

because I know chaos got nerfed hard once the game left early access

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

it was august 2021

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

neon terrace it was august 2021

!?

#

Tf

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

yeah ik chaos got nerfed, he mentions that in the vid

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:04 AM

#

it was aug 21

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:05 AM

#

Bruh

#

And yet he put it about zeus and zag

#

that’s it that whole tier list is a sham

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:05 AM

#

he says hestia b because boring

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:05 AM

#

chaos is the closest thing to aspectless shield there is

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:05 AM

#

vagrant crane he says hestia b because boring

Bruh so wait it’s purely personal opinion?

#

Nevermind lol

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:06 AM

#

https://youtu.be/uOSxyg458Fg?t=3186 timestamped

YouTube

Haelian

All 24 Weapon Aspects Tier List by Haelian | Hades

What's your favorite aspect? Let me know in the comments!

00:00 Intro
01:14 Zag Sword
03:39 Nemesis Sword
06:40 Poseidon Sword
09:00 Arthur
11:19 Zag Spear
13:56 Achilles Spear
16:32 Hades Spear
19:58 Guan Yu
23:30 Zag Shield
25:05 Chaos Shield
27:43 Zeus Shield
29:58 Beowulf
32:33 Zag Bow
34:02 Chiron Bow
36:07 Hera Bow
38:28 Rama Bow
40:22 Za...

▶ Play video

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:06 AM

#

plain river that’s it that whole tier list is a sham

that dude's cleared like 55 heat or something and he set a bunch of unmodded speedrun records awhile ago

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:06 AM

#

If he says hestia is b because it’s boring so

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:06 AM

#

def a way better player than you or me lol

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:06 AM

#

that shows to me that the tier list isn’t based on aspect strength

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:07 AM

#

he put hera below chiron

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:07 AM

#

dusa

#

I’ll watch the video when I’m not using data to use discord but

#

This tierlist sounds like it’s just personally how much he likes the aspects rather then based on the strength

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:08 AM

#

lucifer above hestia

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:08 AM

#

^

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:08 AM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1065513116999364719/image.png

#

thats hestia right

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:09 AM

#

Yes it’s hesty

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:09 AM

#

yeah

#

lucifer above hestia

#

so 100% fun

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:09 AM

#

plain river This tierlist sounds like it’s just personally how much he likes the aspects rat...

Can you disprove this @neon terrace

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:10 AM

#

plain river This tierlist sounds like it’s just personally how much he likes the aspects rat...

idk but he put beo and eris on s tier so power is clearly a factor

#

and anyway who are u to say he's wrong lol

#

i wouodnt say hes wrong either

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:10 AM

#

neon terrace idk but he put beo and eris on s tier so power is clearly a factor

You can like using powerful aspects though

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:10 AM

#

beowulf and eris are also generally considered to be fun

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:11 AM

#

we both suck lol i dont think we have the game knowledge or experience to say that hes wrong

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:11 AM

#

I will say I do

#

to say that

#

This isn’t based on aspect strength

#

sorry I broke that up over multiple messages

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:11 AM

#

neon terrace we both suck lol i dont think we have the game knowledge or experience to say th...

have you like conversed with this pereson before

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:12 AM

#

Or maybe

#

Hera was just uber underrated 2 years ago

#

but that seems unlikely

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:13 AM

#

plain river This isn’t based on aspect strength

how do u even objectively judge aspect strength? it's pretty much impossible, several aspects can have certain stupidly broken builds which do an insane amount of damage, but could be average-ish aspects otherwise

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:13 AM

#

no bc lucifer over hestia is crazy

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:13 AM

#

neon terrace how do u even objectively judge aspect strength? it's pretty much impossible, se...

there are a bunch of aspects that just perform better then others

#

Looking at heat and looking at speedruns

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:13 AM

#

the only reason i could think of is that he finds lucifer more fun and he literally states hestia is b because he thinks it's boring

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:14 AM

#

plain river Looking at heat and looking at speedruns

if u only look at heat and speedruns u'll get weird results, and those are also always with the best/luckiest possible builds those weapons can have

#

it doesnt take into account the average run with normal rng

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:15 AM

#

plain river Hera was just uber underrated 2 years ago

Croven moment

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:15 AM

#

neon terrace if u only look at heat and speedruns u'll get weird results, and those are also ...

The high heat unseeded aspects nearly all rely on consistency

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:18 AM

#

neon terrace it doesnt take into account the average run with normal rng

What is an average run with normal rng when the in game tools of hades allow you to influence your rng so much

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:19 AM

#

aww come on

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:19 AM

#

unseeded doesnt necessarily mean unmodded, or a lot of the time theyll only post runs they won with cracked builds

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:19 AM

#

neon terrace unseeded doesnt necessarily mean unmodded, or a lot of the time theyll only post...

where are you getting these generalisations from

#

who is "they"

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:19 AM

#

plain river https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1065503567785504789/IM...

Congratulations! dusa

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:19 AM

#

soeedrunners

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:19 AM

#

cunning urchin Congratulations! <:dusa:522248771409543188>

Thnx

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:19 AM

#

Modded and unmodded are different categories

#

Unmodded is pretty much based on rng actually

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:20 AM

#

I’m running away before I see a red ping or 8 from Nyaanyaa

#

And because I want to finish this zag rail run lol

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:20 AM

#

good luck!

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:20 AM

#

see now the issue is that you're using zagrail

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:20 AM

#

you going for 5220 or 3214 with zag rail?

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:21 AM

#

3142

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:21 AM

#

tawny grove you going for 5220 or 3214 with zag rail?

5220

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:21 AM

#

vagrant crane see now the issue is that you're using zagrail

Issue?

#

I’m always going for 5220

#

Why wouldn’t I

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:22 AM

#

thougjt id ask ¯_(ツ)_/¯

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:22 AM

#

wait

#

so

#

with guan yu

#

at lvl 3

#

which is -60% life

#

you would have

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

has someone done a hoarding slash run on this challenge? hoarding sucks in any other circumstance

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

40 health

#

right?

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

neon terrace has someone done a hoarding slash run on this challenge? hoarding sucks in any o...

Yes

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

neon terrace has someone done a hoarding slash run on this challenge? hoarding sucks in any o...

I did during testing

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

because im holding lvl 3 guan yu and i have 60 health?

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

neon terrace I cant do 40 w/ beo, chaos, chiron, hestia, hera, etc that are considered some o...

don't you just like, prefer playing fists over those weapons lmao you're probably just better at fists than those other ones
they're mechanically different, so you're gonna have an easier time with talos than some of the others

tawny grove Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

obviously cant submit but the run was successful

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:23 AM

#

is this a glitch

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:24 AM

#

Now I can’t find my photo

gilded wedge Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

collar on

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

ohhh

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1064415213476126750/IMG_2773.jpg

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

im such a silly goose

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

Good god

#

Why did I have so many boons still

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

tight basin don't you just like, prefer playing fists over those weapons lmao you're probabl...

yeah lol my best aspects are

all the fists besides gilgamesh
zeus
eris
everything else

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

plain river https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1064415213476126750/IM...

@neon terrace there is your hoarding slash W

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

yeah just because you're good with a certain weapon/aspect doesn't discount the other aspects

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:25 AM

#

arthur strangely absent??

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:26 AM

#

tight basin yeah just because you're good with a certain weapon/aspect doesn't discount the ...

Zeus sucks bc i dont like it

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:26 AM

#

like yeah sure, you cleared talos at 40 but can't do beo 32 because you're just better at talos, not because talos is better than beo

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:26 AM

#

plain river <@751389680318021652> there is your hoarding slash W

nice

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:26 AM

#

beo is objectively better than talos, we can all agree on that
it's just your lack of experience/skill using beo compared to fists

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:26 AM

#

waiwaiwai

#

talos?

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

Talos bad. tizozzz

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

this is about talos?

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

vagrant crane this is about talos?

this is 2 separate convos lmao

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

tight basin beo is objectively better than talos, we can all agree on that it's just your la...

not "objectively" lol but yeah most would agree beo and all those other aspects are better than talos

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

neon terrace not "objectively" lol but yeah most would agree beo and all those other aspects ...

Yes objectively

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

i do believe at a point it becomes objective

#

and that point is beowulf vs talos

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

Beowulf is objectively better than Talos.

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

tight basin yeah just because you're good with a certain weapon/aspect doesn't discount the ...

im not really "good" with any aspect but i am better at the fists than the rest of the weapons

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:27 AM

#

Definitely.

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:28 AM

#

i would call it objectively lmao
better at heat and speed, even with casual play without knowing about the mirage bug, beo is just stronger

#

partly because it's a shield

#

and also because even if you just slap passion flare on it, it's still strong

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:29 AM

#

neon terrace im not really "good" with any aspect but i am better at the fists than the rest ...

sure, but point still stands lol

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:29 AM

#

beowulf as zagspect lvl0

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:30 AM

#

tight basin i would call it objectively lmao better at heat and speed, even with casual play...

Gauging aspects at casual level with suboptimal tactics doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. tizomg

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:31 AM

#

True

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:31 AM

#

neon terrace im not really "good" with any aspect but i am better at the fists than the rest ...

by that metric, fists suck bcs im garbo at them

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:31 AM

#

true i probably put % on fist attacks lmao

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:31 AM

#

tight basin i would call it objectively lmao better at heat and speed, even with casual play...

it's a completely subjective discussion, theres nothing objective about it

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:32 AM

#

vagrant crane by that metric, fists suck bcs im garbo at them

i didnt say the fists are better than the other weapons i just said talos is decent

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:32 AM

#

i mean really every aspect is probably half decent to my knowledge i havent tried hades yet so idk about that

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:32 AM

#

Why is it completely subjective

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:32 AM

#

nor have i tried gilgamesh

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:32 AM

#

surely heat and speed are objective measurements we can compare

#

🤨

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:33 AM

#

Calling aspect strength subjective is just wrong and absurd ngl.

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:33 AM

#

Zag sword can be just as good as beowulf if you rng into 105 speed boosters

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:33 AM

#

you've got a point there

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:33 AM

#

If you can't play Beowulf or Hestia, that says nothing about those two aspects.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:34 AM

#

hestia best aspect ever ‼️

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:34 AM

#

If you want to gauge an aspect's potential, you look at the top level of play.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:35 AM

#

cunning urchin If you want to gauge an aspect's potential, you look at the top level of play.

tf2

#

soda popper can absolutely blow in many players hands but is banned bc its cracked when ur good

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:35 AM

#

Lets test these super fancy art supplies by seeing what a 5th grader can do with them

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:35 AM

#

plain river Lets test these super fancy art supplies by seeing what a 5th grader can do with...

i have an example of this in my bathroom

#

i made my mom get me super expensive markers and the drawings i made are kindergarten tier

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:36 AM

#

Ain't nothing subjective about the fact that Malphon can't keep up with Hera in speedruns, for example.

#

Or that Beowulf has the best win rate vs EM4 in high heat.

#

Etc.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:37 AM

#

or that hestia is objectively super cool

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:37 AM

#

Time to rng manipulate into heroic side hustle

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:37 AM

#

Hestia gud.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:37 AM

#

who needs to manipulate

#

when you have codex mod silly goose

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:38 AM

#

vagrant crane who needs to manipulate

Not me

#

Just got it first try

#

💪

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:38 AM

#

crazy

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:38 AM

#

plain river Why is it completely subjective

if we're just going off heat then zag & chaos shield are better than beo, if we're going off speed then a bunch of aspects are better than zeus. and these arent even objective or TAS measurements we're using, it's just the known human peaks

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:38 AM

#

Oh and heroic thunder dash

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:38 AM

#

it's completely subjective

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:39 AM

#

we were literally comparing beo and talos

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:39 AM

#

neon terrace if we're just going off heat then zag & chaos shield are better than beo, if we'...

We can use both metrics

#

And in both cases

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:39 AM

#

the other aspects weren't relevant to the point i made, which was that beo is objectively better than talos

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:39 AM

#

plain river We can use both metrics

the fastest weapon isnt the one with the highest heat clear, so how are u gonna measure that

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:39 AM

#

tight basin the other aspects weren't relevant to the point i made, which was that beo is ob...

it's better in your (and most people's) opinion, those are not objective facts

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:40 AM

#

if you want to get into other aspects and whatnot, then sure we could do that if you wanted to
but my initial point of beo being objectively better than talos still stands

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:40 AM

#

neon terrace the fastest weapon isnt the one with the highest heat clear, so how are u gonna ...

true but a bunch of aspects are equally bad at both speed and heat

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:40 AM

#

really man

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:40 AM

#

for something to be objective it had to be a literal uncontestable fact, theres nothing like that in a discussion about what weapon is better in a game lol

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:40 AM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1065520831196823572/image.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1065520995705823262/image.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1065521019336544326/image.png

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:40 AM

#

neon terrace it's better in your (and most people's) opinion, those are not objective facts

so what would make talos better than beo in your opinion

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:40 AM

#

You're not making any sense, and you're showing a lack of understanding of high heat meta tbh. Zag Shield and Chaos are better at 60+ once you're forced to take RI3 and Beowulf is stuck with one Cast and a slower Attack.

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:41 AM

#

Oh bruh I forgot to switch into poseidons keepsake

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:41 AM

#

beowulf has 35 entries

#

zagshield and khaos 1

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:41 AM

#

Im not even just talking about Hades, so long as it isnt a game where u can literally compare that every single stat is higher and the playstyles are the exact same, you cant say one is objectively better than the other

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:41 AM

#

yes you can

#

there are always numbers

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:42 AM

#

but we are talking about hades bouldy

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:42 AM

#

tight basin so what would make talos better than beo in your opinion

Im not even saying Talos is better than Beo. Just saying that there isnt anything objective here, it's all just opinions

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:42 AM

#

okay so what opinion would make talos better than beo

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:42 AM

#

No.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:42 AM

#

tight basin okay so what opinion would make talos better than beo

me on my 3rd clear

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:42 AM

#

tight basin but we are talking about hades <:bouldy:523329116934635534>

yeah and in hades every weapon has drastically different playstyles with stats and movesets that are weighted really differently, there's no way to objectively compare them

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:43 AM

#

i loooved talos when i was just getting my first few clears

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:43 AM

#

"objectively" doesn't come into any discussion in this game

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:43 AM

#

Your conclusion doesn't even follow from your premises. Your logic is legit totally flawed. tizomg

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:43 AM

#

neon terrace "objectively" doesn't come into any discussion in this game

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1065521909325905950/image.png

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:44 AM

#

just because things have different playstyles and whatnot, that doesn't mean you can't compare then objectively

#

things will be better than other things

#

like beo vs zag sword

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:45 AM

#

Koh bad

#

Bag

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:45 AM

#

yeah, zagsword clears

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:45 AM

#

exactly

#

just get 15 ichors and rd

#

pull an eris route

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:46 AM

#

Zag Sword is objectively better for fresh file speedruns.

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:46 AM

#

damn there goes my point

#

argument gone

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:46 AM

#

Zag sword is objectively the best fresh file weapon

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:46 AM

#

tight basin argument gone

No, it's a proof of your argument.

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:47 AM

#

oh true

#

i forgor my argument

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:47 AM

#

its weird how nemesis could just say "1.6x attack multiplier" and would have roughly the same effect

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:47 AM

#

Not really

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:47 AM

#

thats why my roughly is there

#

insurance

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:47 AM

#

1.6x attack multipliter would stack with crits

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:47 AM

#

pretend it doesnt crit

#

my roughly still works though

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:48 AM

#

1.6 multiplier doesn’t prok hunters mark either

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:48 AM

#

roughly

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:48 AM

#

Nor does it work with heart rend

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:48 AM

#

roughjly

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:48 AM

#

It would have roughly the same effect if we ignore all that crits entail besides the average. tizomg

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:48 AM

#

It’s more like simplified and ignoring crits exists as a whole

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:48 AM

#

yes

#

life is easier if crits dont exist

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

cunning urchin It would have roughly the same effect if we ignore all that crits entail besides...

crits? wdym?

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

true just remove all crits from the game

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

ive never heard of this

#

you mean like from tf2?

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

make arty cores worse than poseidons

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

tight basin true just remove all crits from the game

No bump arte cores up to highest +%

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

make arty have aph percent and bump aph up 10

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

Because she has no secondsry effects

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

oh that's actually fair

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:49 AM

#

totally fine

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

make arty 10 over aphro

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

nope

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

With no effects

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

aph must stay winning

#

havent u heard

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

game balance moment

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

miss aphrodite bankrolls the game

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

Lady Aphrodite always wins.

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

aphrodite might be better for heat tho because of still good damage and weak

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

squirtdevious

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:50 AM

#

vagrant crane aph must stay winning

Aphro does stay winning if you hit sweet surrender or any other status curse + pstatus

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

cunning urchin Lady Aphrodite always wins.

~~Hephaestus says otherwise~~

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

wait if we removed all crits from the game, what would arty's status condition be

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

plain river ~~Hephaestus says otherwise~~

who is this hephaestus character? never heard of him!

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

because marked is part of crits

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

aphrodite is unmarried, isn't she?

#

marked makes enemies randomly take 3.01x damage

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

tight basin wait if we removed all crits from the game, what would arty's status condition b...

Sweet surrender 2 electric boogaloo

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

didn't she marry like, ares and hephaestus or something

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:51 AM

#

plain river Sweet surrender 2 electric boogaloo

lmfao

#

sweet surrender except it procs pstatus

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:52 AM

#

vagrant crane marked makes enemies randomly take 3.01x damage

pressure points also makes your weapons randomly deal 3.01x damage

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:52 AM

#

tight basin didn't she marry like, ares and hephaestus or something

She married hephaestus and then cheated on him with ares then hephaestus caught ‘em both in a net

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:52 AM

#

yeah sounds about right

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:52 AM

#

plain river She married hephaestus and then cheated on him with ares then hephaestus caught ...

a lot of exploits center around her cheating

#

also did you know there's a guy aphrodite

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:53 AM

#

Nyaanyaa Mewmew detects heresy?

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:53 AM

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphroditus

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:54 AM

#

Lady Aphrodite is married to Michael Ailshie, featured here. https://clips.twitch.tv/DirtyDullPrariedogSpicyBoy

Twitch

courtenberry - Michael demonstrates youthful reflexes

Watch courtenberry's clip titled "Michael demonstrates youthful reflexes"

▶ Play video

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:54 AM

#

tight basin like beo vs zag sword

even that, theres no objective basis to compare them by. u can say beo has a higher peak heat clear and a faster peak speedrun time, that's it. theres too many different metrics, it's not "objectively" comparable

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:55 AM

#

jesus christ man

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:55 AM

#

plain river She married hephaestus and then cheated on him with ares then hephaestus caught ...

Lies and slander. Don't believe everything you hear.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:55 AM

#

people on the internet admitting their incorrect status challenge

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

neon terrace even that, theres no objective basis to compare them by. u can say beo has a hig...

what other metrics then

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

cunning urchin Lies and slander. Don't believe everything you hear.

I was there when it happened

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

how good an aspect can do ME?

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

tight basin what other metrics then

theres an impossible amount to quantify

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

plain river I was there when it happened

it's true, i was the net

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

bouldy

#

that's not very helpful

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

discord user maximus decimus meridius vs the idea of tendencies and rates

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

tight basin that's not very helpful

exactly, that's why these debates are subjective

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

neon terrace theres an impossible amount to quantify

Just say you don't have a clue about the meta, we understand. tizomg

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:56 AM

#

name just one metric then

#

or like 3 i guess idk

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

cunning urchin Just say you don't have a clue about the meta, we understand. <:tizomg:456913427...

Just say you don't understand the English language

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

neon terrace theres an impossible amount to quantify

et cetera et cetera et cetera et cetera et cetera et cetera et cetera

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

tight basin name just *one* metric then

u mentioned one urself, the ME thing

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

neon terrace u mentioned one urself, the ME thing

that was an actual meme

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

that's a horrible metric that shouldn't even be considered

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

tight basin name just *one* metric then

How many letters in the name of the aspect are the same as Talos

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

This discussion is pointless.

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

tight basin that's a horrible metric that shouldn't even be considered

that's ur opinion

#

ie subjective

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM

#

bouldy

#

it's just using your brain and knowing what actually works

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 6:58 AM

#

Nanas you missed my amazing metric

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 6:59 AM

#

there aren't any letters in Talos

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 6:59 AM

#

maam mia

#

spaghetti

#

linguini

#

vermicelli

#

fravolio

#

pizza do pasta

#

i hope this incantantion has worked

#

now we shall cease frivolous discussion

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 7:00 AM

#

spaghetti plate shield carry

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:00 AM

#

plain river I was there when it happened

I'll feed you to the sacred crocodiles personally.

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 7:00 AM

#

cunning urchin I'll feed you to the sacred crocodiles personally.

Crocodiles are funny though

#

Do you have any alligators instead?

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 7:09 AM

#

cunning urchin I'll feed you to the sacred crocodiles personally.

This message was brought to you by Big Reptilian™️

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 7:32 AM

#

ngl I kinda use the beo special a lot

#

prob way more than i should

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:32 AM

#

well there's your issue

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 7:32 AM

#

but i hate charging the bull rush to deal with random tiny enemies that die to 2 special throws

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:33 AM

#

you're spending the same amount of time in that long ass animation

#

to throw twice

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 7:34 AM

#

not without sudden rush, the dragon rush def is not quicker nornally than 2 spexial throws, esp when they bounce between enemies

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:35 AM

#

bull rush =/= dragon rush

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 7:35 AM

#

if u get a good special boon the special one shots a lot of them

#

yeah ik but the regular bull rush is slower too

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:35 AM

#

thilly

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:37 AM

#

If you want to be fast with Beowulf, you press Special exactly zero times in your run.

fluid knoll Jan 19, 2023, 7:39 AM

#

What boons should I aim for with arthur attack

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:40 AM

#

aph

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:40 AM

#

Heartbreak Strike > Zeus' Aid > Smoldering Air

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:41 AM

#

i always used to underestimate dzeus aid

#

i thought it was trash cause i hated dzeus

fluid knoll Jan 19, 2023, 7:42 AM

#

vagrant crane i always used to underestimate dzeus aid

Yeah it doesn't feel like it i'd do much on something with an attack speed like arthur's

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:42 AM

#

If she's not offering Attack even after reroll, you can take Passion Dash and go for Deadly Strike + Heart Rend or Divine Strike (hopefully at good rarity).

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:42 AM

#

fluid knoll Yeah it doesn't feel like it i'd do much on something with an attack speed like ...

smair

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:42 AM

#

fluid knoll Yeah it doesn't feel like it i'd do much on something with an attack speed like ...

That's why you go for Smair.

#

squirtdevious

#

You'll also want lots of Chaos Gates for more Attack damage, hopefully.

#

Rarity bonus, HP, and obol bonus are also decent picks.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:43 AM

#

chaos giving you a single tghing you want ever challenge

fluid knoll Jan 19, 2023, 7:44 AM

#

Me on fists run: every time you attack, -2 health

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:44 AM

#

vagrant crane chaos giving you a single tghing you want ever challenge

You always get what you want if you reset the run when you don't and pretend it never happened. tizomg

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:44 AM

#

fluid knoll Me on fists run: every time you attack, -2 health

Easy.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:44 AM

#

cunning urchin You always get what you want if you reset the run when you don't and pretend it ...

me with patty

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 7:45 AM

#

1 HP is all you need.

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:45 AM

#

if you're not garbage

#

but sadly

#

me being me

#

i wonder

#

if you have 1 max hp

#

does stubborn even work

#

would it round down

#

and just kill you

#

that would be like

#

lvl0 guan yu

#

and get a chaos curse max health

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 7:46 AM

#

nothing in the game kills u besides tight deadline, enemy attacks, and traps afaik

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:47 AM

#

well

#

it's like

#

you've just died, 0 hp

#

will stubborn heal you back

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 7:47 AM

#

and i have def had 1 max hp before, stubborn rounds up to 1 when u die

#

1 is the floor

vagrant crane Jan 19, 2023, 7:47 AM

#

why have you had 1 max hp

gilded wedge Jan 19, 2023, 7:47 AM

#

I imagine surely there's a minimum 1 HP restore

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 7:51 AM

#

vagrant crane why have you had 1 max hp

chaos curse probably

acoustic skiff Jan 19, 2023, 8:59 AM

#

Lowest max hp I've had was 7 and I had to fight Meg like that, did not go well

#

Ate 2 of my defiances

rustic linden Jan 19, 2023, 4:06 PM

#

6614 obols 😎

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 4:06 PM

#

Congratulations! dusa

rustic linden Jan 19, 2023, 4:07 PM

#

thx

#

time for another....

green pollen Jan 19, 2023, 5:44 PM

#

erm is it bad if I always do the same build? lol

plain river Jan 19, 2023, 5:47 PM

#

No

#

Play the game how you find it fun

night prawn Jan 19, 2023, 7:30 PM

#

green pollen erm is it bad if I always do the same build? lol

Nah it ain't. It's fun to experiment with different builds but use what you want

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 8:21 PM

#

i just watched haelian'e 55 heat beo run, it seems like he was bull rushing more than dashing sometimes lol even when he didnt have cast stones

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 8:29 PM

#

That's Beowulf for you.

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 9:32 PM

#

id that what you're supposed to do?

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 9:33 PM

#

vaguely yeah

#

for high heat anyways

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 9:58 PM

#

if u dont get zeus on the special for zeus shield what's the next best option?

#

i figure ares or dio but idk

stiff stone Jan 19, 2023, 10:00 PM

#

Those alternatives should work ok

tight basin Jan 19, 2023, 10:19 PM

#

Dio prob better than ares maybe but never tried it

neon terrace Jan 19, 2023, 11:24 PM

#

im trying to do zag spear and guan yu at 40 heat but im prob not going to, im at my wit's end already

#

when u dont get charged skewer or exploding launcher, or get a common special, it's just pain

cunning urchin Jan 19, 2023, 11:37 PM

#

You could just reset for Flurry Jab and Charged Skewer, I guess.

#

#h1-high-heat-strategies though. tizomg

grand zenith Jan 20, 2023, 5:28 AM

#

I literally got all my darkness sucked for my new themse I prolly can't do this.

velvet ledge Jan 20, 2023, 7:32 AM

#

excalibur + deflect is the funnest build ever

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 7:36 AM

#

On Attack?

#

'Tis quite entertaining.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 9:55 AM

#

is there a good build for lucifier rail besides super soaker and zeus?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 9:58 AM

#

You can take Heartbreak Strike for great single-target damage and doubling down on the ramp damage, but you'll want Smoldering Air and probably Tidal Dash for AOE.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 9:58 AM

#

aight thank you 🙏 i'll try it out

valid dagger Jan 20, 2023, 9:59 AM

#

Can also do Hangover or Doom

#

But they’re not amazing builds imo

#

Just fun ig if you get a few things

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:00 AM

#

Oh yeah, Heartbreak Strike > Deadly Flourish > Heart Rend is also a good route for scaling your damage.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:00 AM

#

i'm mainly asking cause i'm not a huge fan of zeus, and it's kinda dull just going his boons every run with the lucifier rail yk

valid dagger Jan 20, 2023, 10:01 AM

#

Yea I get that

#

Altho you can have diverse builds based on the other supporting gods you get

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:02 AM

#

Since you're starting with Weak, you can go either Family Favorite or Privileged Status. Family Favorite more consistent overall, but Privileged Status can help some pick-ups like Frost Flourish or Drunken Dash/Dionysus' Aid or whatever quite a bit, which gives you some build diversity.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:04 AM

#

valid dagger Altho you can have diverse builds based on the other supporting gods you get

oh yeah I know, but like I usually pigeon hole myself cause I don't really know boons that well yk

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:05 AM

#

cunning urchin Since you're starting with Weak, you can go either Family Favorite or Privileged...

ty i'll scrn shot this and save it for later

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:06 AM

#

Learning to optimize just one or two builds is a good way to learn to do better builds in general, too.

#

Even if you always go Lightning Strike > Tidal Dash, the other gods in your pool will vary a lot, and you'll learn to make the best use of that if you keep trying to improve your builds.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:08 AM

#

guess that's just a wordy of saying play more lmao, but ty i'll try and experiment more and see what i like

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:12 AM

#

m saying pigeon-holing yourself won't prevent you from learning more about builds if you still focus on improving that build. squirtnya

#

Like... even within a build, there's room for experimentation.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:13 AM

#

yee i think i understand, like the most important part of the builds are like either the attack/special/special and the god you use to augment it, anything outside of that is not set in stone

#

so i can use that to add some variety into my builds to avoid it being samey

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:15 AM

#

Sometimes builds start with a Dash, but yeah.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:15 AM

#

oh yeah, like for the sword

#

tbh i just mainly use the rail, so idk much about other weapons

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:15 AM

#

On sword, you'd only start with a Dash if you start Tidal Dash probably.

valid dagger Jan 20, 2023, 10:16 AM

#

Hestia starts with Dash

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:16 AM

#

Well, you can start Divine Dash, but you'll lack damage. Better to start Curse of Agony for good damage and pick Divine Flourish and Divine Dash later in the run to shoot for Merciful End.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:16 AM

#

Why do i feel like i built the rail completly wrong when i was using it

#

I mean it did grant me the first win just because of how safe to use the special is but the hades fight took like 10 min

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:17 AM

#

There's no "wrong" way to build it, but there are more or less effective ways, certainly.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:20 AM

#

the hades fight felt underwhelming with the rail ngl, since like his health bar melts with the triple bomb

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:20 AM

#

Most common way is Lightning Strike > Static Discharge + Tidal Dash and a high % on Special. With poms on Static Discharge and Tidal Dash. And hopefully some Poseidon t2 like Breaking Wave, Razor Shoals...

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:20 AM

#

void glen the hades fight felt underwhelming with the rail ngl, since like his health bar ...

Well, tell him to train harder.

#

squirtdevious

#

Nice thing in Hades is if the run is too easy, you can just change the pact to your liking to make it more difficult.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:22 AM

#

no because that would make me unable to beat him

valid dagger Jan 20, 2023, 10:23 AM

#

Then you just get gud and beat him eventually

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:23 AM

#

man fr giving me ptsd from elden ring, i haven't messed aroudn with pact much besides maxing out the damage bonus for the enemies

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:23 AM

#

Try FO2.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 AM

#

fo2?

gilded wedge Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 AM

#

forced overtime makes enemies faster

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:25 AM

#

oh yeah, i was gonna do that next run bc i've heard it made the enemies spawn faster

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 AM

#

It does yeah.

gilded wedge Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 AM

#

it might be kinda punishing with enemy damage also turned up

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 AM

#

no pain no gain

#

plus I feel like i suck at the game and getting carried bc of the builds i use so yk

#

trial and error

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:27 AM

#

That's how you'd feel in most roguelikes

#

Especially thoose where you dont have a limit to the items you can get

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 AM

#

Oh fair enough tbh, I don't really play rougelikes, Hades is like the first one I've really been into

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 AM

#

void glen plus I feel like i suck at the game and getting carried bc of the builds i use s...

Getting good builds consistently is also a skill.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 AM

#

I play roguelikes all the time and very often it feels like im being carried by a random very rare and overpowered combo

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:30 AM

#

Well, that's not as much of a thing in Hades.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:30 AM

#

That is true

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:31 AM

#

You have a good amount of control over your build.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:31 AM

#

Bosses and enemies in this game feel like they have enough hp to not melt easily

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:32 AM

#

cunning urchin You have a good amount of control over your build.

You also do have a lot of control in your build in dead cells for example yet in that game melting bosses is common

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:33 AM

#

Some of the most powerful builds in Hades are also some of the most consistent.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:34 AM

#

I mean from a new player standpoint you cant really melt as easily as in other games with a lot of control

#

The enemy atats are better balanced in hades

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:38 AM

#

Yeah, m not a big fan of most roguelikes. Not because of the genre per se but because they tend to lack polish or the narrative is lacking etc.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:38 AM

#

Roguelike is definetly a more gameplay oriented genre

#

Kinda hard to give a good consistent storytelling when the pace of the game is defined by the player

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:39 AM

#

Which can be fine if the gameplay is good enough. In my experience, it doesn't tend to meet my standards. tizomg

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:39 AM

#

I just like randomness tbh

#

And options

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:40 AM

#

Tbf I've heard Hades is a pretty unique for a rougelike

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:40 AM

#

It is

#

In terms of storytelling and ambience and all that hades is definetly one of the if not the best roguelike imo

#

In terms of gameplay, that's debatable

#

I mean its the only roguelike i know of that has reactive music

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 AM

#

I don't think another comes close in narrative and overall presentation, like music, art, GUI, etc.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 AM

#

What other rougelikes would you consider in terms of gameplay?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 AM

#

As far as I've seen anyway.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 AM

#

void glen What other rougelikes would you consider in terms of gameplay?

Dead cells is definetly up there

#

With standards this high its hard to find something

#

Esp since everything is subjective

#

If you're more of a casual in terms of this and are on just for the funny, enter the gungeon would be great

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:44 AM

#

I think one problem that a lot of roguelikes have in terms of gameplay is they make you feel pitifully weak and just trying to scrape by while Hades makes you feel like a god rampaging through the Underworld even when you get your butt handed to you.

uncut oar Jan 20, 2023, 10:44 AM

#

cunning urchin I think one problem that a lot of roguelikes have in terms of gameplay is they m...

...because you are a god rampaging trough the underworld

#

And in other roguelikes you are meant to start weak and slowly get stronger troughout the run

#

This is just a matter of difficulty

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:46 AM

#

It's not difficulty per se, no.

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:46 AM

#

tbf most games usually do that and keep you feeling weak until you get some upgrades yk

proven osprey Jan 20, 2023, 10:47 AM

#

Mirror is just too strong

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 10:47 AM

#

It's refreshing to see a game not make you feel like wet paper as soon as you start

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:50 AM

#

You can balance a game around upgrades that always make you straight-up more powerful with new abilities or better damage etc., and you can balance a game with similar difficulty where the upgrades always come with a cost like losing a certain ability or halving your HP or whatever.

#

Hades leans heavily towards the former, which makes you feel more and more powerful.

winter cove Jan 20, 2023, 10:54 AM

#

how curse of drowning interacts with beowulf and hera?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:54 AM

#

Poorly. tizozzz

proven osprey Jan 20, 2023, 10:54 AM

#

I find it extremely funny that the discussion is about getting more powerful and then curse of drowning is mentioned

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:55 AM

#

lmao

proven osprey Jan 20, 2023, 10:55 AM

#

"It's a duo what could go wrong?"

void glen Jan 20, 2023, 11:07 AM

#

why is the curse of drowning bad?

acoustic skiff Jan 20, 2023, 11:17 AM

#

where to begin

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 11:46 AM

#

I like it

#

With Talos

#

Tbh it's more of a coping duo, but if you are melee, it's interesting

#

Also red-blue colour combo is so Mmmmhhhh

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 12:16 PM

#

It's okay in some builds, but it's not usually what you're aiming for, and not good enough to normally want those two gods in your core slots at the same time.

#

Very cope pick.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:20 PM

#

Is there like a duo boon tierlist out there?

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 2:27 PM

#

Someone made a video of it

#

Somewhat recently

#

Jawless paul

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:36 PM

#

muted sun Is there like a duo boon tierlist out there?

https://i.imgur.com/40KjQ5K.png

Imgur

#

Like that, I suppose.

lucid oar Jan 20, 2023, 2:37 PM

#

Cod ain’t that bad

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:37 PM

#

Would you ever aim for it outside of a meme build?

#

I always get the sense that the CoD pulses remove your i-frames tbh, but I haven't verified it.

#

I suppose I can move it up one for those rare occasions where it's useful. https://i.imgur.com/Lhh3tcf.png

Imgur

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:40 PM

#

Ngl I kinda expected hunting blades to be the top duo

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:40 PM

#

Wait, that's the same link lol.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:40 PM

#

But smair makes sense

#

Well hunting blades or merciful end

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:41 PM

#

Hunting Blades requires that you pick up a Cast that's kinda garbage without the Duo Boon.

#

And Merciful End requires that you fully commit your run to the build pretty much.

#

And you're not going for Merciful End on a bow. tizomg

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:44 PM

#

So they're lower for being more comittal and if you dont get it you're kinda screwed

#

Makes sense

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:45 PM

#

They're more like categories than rankings, I guess.

#

Well, you get the idea.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:47 PM

#

Ya

#

Which one is at the bottom? Freezing vortex?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:48 PM

#

Yeah.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:48 PM

#

Yikes

#

Is it that bad

#

I never used it so I wouldnt know

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:49 PM

#

It makes a bad Cast worse, you could say. Slicing Shot isn't great without Hunting Blades or at the very least Engulfing Vortex.

#

Not that it can't be good sometimes or at least early on; but if you take Slicing Shot, you're really hoping for Hunting Blades. And so if Lady Artemis isn't in the pool, you don't really want to take Slicing Shot.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:51 PM

#

Doesnt it also lock out hunting blades when you do get it

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:51 PM

#

Right.

#

Your Cast inflicts Chill, but is smaller and moves slower.

#

Chill is cool and all, but...

#

What makes it worse is if you have the prerequisites for Freezing Vortex, you already have a way to inflict Chill.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:54 PM

#

Yeah I can see why thats really bad

#

What effects does chill even have? Move and attack slower?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:54 PM

#

'Twas bad when they added it, and then they nerfed the size and made it worse lol.

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:55 PM

#

muted sun What effects does chill even have? Move and attack slower?

Yeah.

#

It's pretty strong especially for high heat tbh, and especially if you also get Killing Freeze.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:57 PM

#

Is killing freeze just for bosses? Or is it easy enough to spread the chill all around

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 2:58 PM

#

It's not difficult to spread the cold

#

Like the snow burst or aoes

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:58 PM

#

Depends on the build. It'll spread often enough to do some good damage in normal encounters, but the main benefit is definitely in boss fights, yeah.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 2:58 PM

#

And eventually there's one enemy,or the boss, the extra damage helps

#

Winter harvest and the 10 stack explosion

#

Imo

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 2:59 PM

#

Arctic blast

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 2:59 PM

#

Thanks

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 2:59 PM

#

Arctic Blast kinda mid. tizozzz

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:00 PM

#

Yea...

#

I would rank cod higher

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:01 PM

#

It sucks though.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:01 PM

#

If you are not cast centric and it just supports you

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:01 PM

#

You lose Boiling Blood.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:02 PM

#

Oh true

#

I never pay attention to boiling

#

I really should

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:02 PM

#

It's a decent amount of damage in a lot of builds.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:03 PM

#

Could be useful on some rapid attacking weapons that dont get that much from a 50% damage, like fists which I assume is its main use

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:03 PM

#

When you apply the 10th stack of Chill to an enemy and Arctic Blast triggers, that enemy will have Chill immunity for a short while. You can see this e.g. if you do two Chiron Volleys with Frost Flourish.

#

If that wasn't the case, it would be a little better at least.

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:05 PM

#

muted sun Could be useful on some rapid attacking weapons that dont get that much from a 5...

Very situationally, yeah. Just not a lot of builds where it would make sense to even open up the Duo Boon.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:06 PM

#

Yeah true I didnt consider that

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:06 PM

#

And then if you see that offered and Breaking Wave, I'd grab Breaking Wave. tizomg

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:06 PM

#

Really curious for duo designs in hadest2

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

rose pelican Really curious for duo designs in hadest2

No more Duo Boons.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

cunning urchin And then if you see that offered and Breaking Wave, I'd grab Breaking Wave. <:ti...

Yep, many duos you either pass or outright avoid

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

Really curious for just combat in general and how its gonna work

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

Hades 1 has Duo Boons, so Hades 2 will have Trio Boons.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

I avoid cold heart

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

Hades 3 will have Quartet Boons.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

Hahahaha

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

rose pelican I avoid cold heart

Cold Embrace.

#

Heretic.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:07 PM

#

Oh gosh

#

My memory

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:08 PM

#

What does that even do again?

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:08 PM

#

Makes ice lasers home on you instead

#

Adds a lot of cast damage but

#

It goes nowhere

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:08 PM

#

Thats... odd

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:08 PM

#

Your Cast crystal fires its beam directly at you for +4 seconds.
Bonus Cast Damage: +30%

#

It's decent enough tbh, but most people genuinely suck at using it and the beams go nowhere. tizomg

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:10 PM

#

Ouch

#

It does change the cast radically

#

So unless you are going for it it may mess up the setup

#

Since you gotta get around the enemy, so i assume it's for backstabbing with melee while laser melts face

#

Besides, if you have beam, you probably want clarity over embrace

#

Kinda like vortex vs blades

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:12 PM

#

Except Freezing Vortex is a downgrade from Slicing shot lol.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:12 PM

#

Artemis is just the fixer upper on bad casts

#

KEKW

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:13 PM

#

Haha yes

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:13 PM

#

cunning urchin Except Freezing Vortex is a downgrade from Slicing shot lol.

Opinion on Beowulf vortex?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:13 PM

#

If you start with Lady Aphrodite boons and find Crystal Beam, you can go for Cold Embrace.

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:13 PM

#

rose pelican Opinion on Beowulf vortex?

lol

#

That's my opinion on it.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:14 PM

#

🫠

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:14 PM

#

Cold embrace beowulf PauseChamp

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:14 PM

#

That

#

That is possible?

#

No wait

#

Nvm

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:14 PM

#

lol

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:14 PM

#

Is it?

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:14 PM

#

Nope

#

Beo is all flares

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:15 PM

#

Im not a beowulf player it just sounded funny

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:15 PM

#

Beowulf gets Frost Flare instead.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:15 PM

#

Aint that like really really bad

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:15 PM

#

Which is somehow worse than Freezing Vortex probably. sneeb

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:16 PM

#

Got me there for a sec

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:16 PM

#

I don't know what you mean. tizomg

#

Says (unedited) on my end.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:16 PM

#

Sure

#

And i play cold embrace Beowulf

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:16 PM

#

I dont see an edit

#

You good man?

valid dagger Jan 20, 2023, 3:17 PM

#

Frost Flare gud

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:17 PM

#

tizomg

#

Frost Flare is Snow Burst at home. sneeb

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:20 PM

#

What's the ideal god pool for Beo?

#

I'm assuming 3 to be zeus dio Demeter

#

Artemis for fully loaded?

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:21 PM

#

Wait why zeus

#

And why demeter for that matter

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:22 PM

#

Scintillating Feast and Ice Wine

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:23 PM

#

Yeah ok what I figured

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:25 PM

#

rose pelican What's the ideal god pool for Beo?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7EOP28oyu6t8KrBEfnrN-dQc6H_ssvAyYz3C1O2JOI/edit#heading=h.cgtoct74w4bk

Google Docs

Beowulf Speedrunning Guide

Beowulf Speedrunning Guide by PaperTronics Table of Contents Foreword Gameplay Boons Mirage Shot Casts Chaos Hermes Setup Mirror Keepsakes Pact of Punishment Hammers Charged Shot Other Hammers Charon Well Items Main Items Other Items Boss Fights Furies Lernie Heroes Ha...

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:25 PM

#

From what I know the best pool is like
Poseidon
Artemis
Then I think aphro and zeus?

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:25 PM

#

Oh right MIRAGE

#

How could i forget the literal best beo duo

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:26 PM

#

Flood Flare start is the go-to for low heat/speedruns. Passion Flare start is the go-to for high heat.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:27 PM

#

Stygian nor dio not an option at high heat due to time consumption i presume

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:28 PM

#

You can take it, but it's a high-roll build.

#

Passion Flare is the most consistent.

#

And Weak helps.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:28 PM

#

True true

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:29 PM

#

Isnt flood flare more consistent since it already halfway opens up mirage? Or are you just saying that for high heat

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:29 PM

#

High

#

Flood has aoe but much lower damage

#

In general

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:30 PM

#

High Heat and I'd say in general if you're not speedrunning probably. Flood Flare opens up Mirage Shot, sure, but it also requires Mirage Shot.

#

Passion Flare just needs poms really. Although obviously you're hoping for more.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:31 PM

#

Mirage and sweet nectar for the sweetest kill

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:32 PM

#

There's also Smair potentially.

#

But just Passion Flare + Snow Burst or Frost Strike is already great.

#

With Privileged Status, of course.

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 3:32 PM

#

Noted

#

I should try passion flare beo

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:33 PM

#

It's fun

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:34 PM

#

At high heat, you're not looking for Mirage Shot really. You're just looking for Snow Burst or Frost Strike or even Mistral Dash. And maybe not even for that and just Divine Dash.

rose pelican Jan 20, 2023, 3:35 PM

#

So i could forgo Poseidon completely

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:37 PM

#

You'd only aim for it if you see one or both of them in Tartarus, maybe.

twin cloak Jan 20, 2023, 3:37 PM

#

smair is the fakest boon ever

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:37 PM

#

You're a fake boon.

#

dusa

twin cloak Jan 20, 2023, 3:37 PM

#

beo can run a lot of things, being a shield

#

obviously something like hunter's flare isn't as strong or consistent as flood but it can still get results

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 3:38 PM

#

Beowulf gud.

iron ether Jan 20, 2023, 3:49 PM

#

The aspect of beowulf is the only time I would ever get a boon from aphrodite

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 4:04 PM

#

Aphrodite is great. I love her

rustic linden Jan 20, 2023, 4:08 PM

#

6860 obols squirtdevious

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 4:09 PM

#

Nice! dusa

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 4:09 PM

#

cunning urchin https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7EOP28oyu6t8KrBEfnrN-dQc6H_ssvAyYz3C1O2JOI/...

Is there a super in depth guide like this but for hestia rail?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 4:10 PM

#

You can find one here. https://www.speedrun.com/hades/guide/1i726

Hades Guides Compendium - Guides - Hades - speedrun.com

Speedrunning leaderboards, resources, forums, and more!

muted sun Jan 20, 2023, 4:13 PM

#

Oooh

#

I found one, thank you!

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 4:16 PM

#

Figured linking the compendium will help more in the future lol.

lyric sorrel Jan 20, 2023, 5:21 PM

#

Is there an Eris guide somewhere? This site seems to be down for me. https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 5:25 PM

#

lyric sorrel Is there an Eris guide somewhere? This site seems to be down for me. https://www...

I think @worldly pier probably took down the site. tizomg

valid dagger Jan 20, 2023, 5:29 PM

#

There is a backup pdf but we cant send files here so ig ill dm it to you

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 8:15 PM

#

for 40? hell nah

#

i would only get the mod if i was doing like 55+ heat or smth tbh

#

plus it kinda defeats ap2 doesnt it?

#

like if u can guarantee the first boon u get w epic rarity and then fharantee ur first hammer too

lucid oar Jan 20, 2023, 8:25 PM

#

If you were gonna reset for cskewer anyway it just saves time

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 8:27 PM

#

Your issue is running bugowulf

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 8:29 PM

#

Unmodded AP2, you see more strats like Shackle start etc. to give you some more consistency in your run attempts, so that you don't need to reset so much. At least up to the point where that's still a reliable strategy. So it definitely makes some difference in how runs are played.

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 8:34 PM

#

u can also guarantee cshot right? the best hammer in the game lol

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 8:36 PM

#

If you try to reset for a specific boon and a specific hammer, it's just not really viable unless you spend a ton of time because of how bad the odds are with AP2. If you guarantee the first boon and hammer, that doesn't just open up starting with that build every run, you can also now reset for a decent third boon or decent Lord Hermes boon or whatever without that taking up too much time.

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 8:36 PM

#

Cshot isn’t best hammer

#

Not universally anyways

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 8:36 PM

#

That said, you get a way better start, but you're still dealing with AP2 the rest of the run.

#

Guaranteed 2-sack also makes a huge difference.

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 8:40 PM

#

plain river Cshot isn’t best hammer

imo it def is even tho it's not my favorite, angelic got 60+ heat on like every shield with it didnt she

#

she did use cshot for the others tho right?

#

and i swear i saw a 55+ zeus run she did w cshot at least

lucid oar Jan 20, 2023, 8:44 PM

#

I’d say it’s probably the best hammer

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 8:47 PM

#

neon terrace and i swear i saw a 55+ zeus run she did w cshot at least

this one https://youtu.be/G7RnIAkuOvQ

YouTube

Angelic

Hades-55 Heat Zeus Shield (Unseeded,Unmodded)

most likely the most insane EM4 fight im ever going to pull off at this level,, recovering from an elysium exit that bad is nearly impossible.

▶ Play video

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 8:48 PM

#

I mean it's unmodded tbf

#

If you don't get explosive return you settle for cshot

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 8:48 PM

#

i mean i prefer flurry jab and rocket bomb personally but cshot is def the best

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 8:50 PM

#

Cshot is just not as good for higher heat for Zeus because you only have 1 dash and you can use bull rush as a pseudo second dash

indigo marsh Jan 20, 2023, 8:50 PM

#

What's better for Hestia rail, Artemis attack or Athena attack

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 8:51 PM

#

~~aphrodite~~ depends how much chaos additive you have atm

indigo marsh Jan 20, 2023, 8:51 PM

#

Nothing atm

#

Still in tartarus

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 8:52 PM

#

If you have like a total of +130% from atk and dstrike on chaos, then Artemis is good because thats all the percentage you'd really need so random crits are nice
Otherwise, you go for consistency

#

So Athena in this case

#

Preferably epic

#

Otherwise I'd just leave the slot open and force Aphrodite in asphodel

indigo marsh Jan 20, 2023, 8:52 PM

#

To top it off Athena is upgrading me from rare to epic lol

#

Thanks

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 8:52 PM

#

That works lol

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 8:57 PM

#

neon terrace imo it def is even tho it's not my favorite, angelic got 60+ heat on like every ...

Once you only have 1 dash it’s better to keep bullrush for movement

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 8:59 PM

#

plain river Once you only have 1 dash it’s better to keep bullrush for movement

bruh how often do u have only 1 dash that's literally like 62 heat

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 8:59 PM

#

Exactly

#

dusa

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 9:01 PM

#

angelic's chaos 62 heat uses charged shot

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 9:03 PM

#

Chaos needs the damage lmao

candid abyss Jan 20, 2023, 9:03 PM

#

can you find duo boons in trial of gods?

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 9:03 PM

#

No

candid abyss Jan 20, 2023, 9:03 PM

#

lame

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 9:04 PM

#

Can get legendaries tho

candid abyss Jan 20, 2023, 9:07 PM

#

ares posideon flood shot duo boon is that good?

lucid oar Jan 20, 2023, 9:07 PM

#

Cshot is def top 2 anyheat builds and arguably top 3 heat builds

#

No other hammer is so good in both heat and speed

#

Twin shot/rocket bomb come close ig

#

Most other fist hammers are kinda underwhelming

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 9:08 PM

#

Helps vs EM4 summons, so there's that.

lucid oar Jan 20, 2023, 9:09 PM

#

If you even make it to em4 bouldy

#

I think heaters use long knuckle anyway

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 9:09 PM

#

Yeah, EM4 especially without Long Knuckle is just...

#

sneeb

#

Imagine having to Dash-Strike just to even be able to hit a skull...

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 9:24 PM

#

BRUH WHY TF IS POSITIVE OUTLOOK POMMABLE WTF

neon terrace Jan 20, 2023, 9:42 PM

#

sorry that was a lil spastic

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:20 PM

#

I need help with making an actual build, monkey tactics of smashing Hades over the head works only so far

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:22 PM

#

For what weapon aspect?

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:23 PM

#

Uhh trying to get 1 more Titan Blood for Hestia I guess

#

Been told its good candidate for Thorn of Thanatos

#

The g u n aspect

ionic crown Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 PM

#

what’s thorn of thanatos

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 PM

#

At max level, yeah. You're probably a little far from getting that achievement if you just did your first clear.

ionic crown Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 PM

#

is that some title

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 PM

#

Lv.1 Hestia is not good.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 PM

#

Dont get damaged 15 rooms while using pierced butterfly

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 PM

#

Lv.5 Hestia is one of the best aspects in the game.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:24 PM

#

Then shield

#

I want to learn it

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:25 PM

#

Have you unlocked or upgraded any of them?

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:25 PM

#

I have pc off

#

Also Titan Blood is rarer than Diamonds

#

Jesus Christ

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:25 PM

#

No, actually. You get 2 Titan Blood per clear but only 1 Diamond.

#

Furies and Hades drop Titan Blood.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 PM

#

You mean saving up everything to buy it at the end?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 PM

#

Only Lernie drops Diamonds.

proper furnace Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 PM

#

ionic crown is that some title

Steam achievement

#

Get 30% from than keepsake

ionic crown Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 PM

#

warm shoal Dont get damaged 15 rooms while using pierced butterfly

You should be focusing on upgrading the weapon aspects before doing this I think

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:26 PM

#

Yeah

ionic crown Jan 20, 2023, 10:27 PM

#

it is either shield or hestia probably

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:27 PM

#

Will save blood in the background

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:27 PM

#

So you haven't unlocked any weapon aspects and are just using base weapons, yes? And you want help with a build for the base shield?

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:27 PM

#

So is Zagreus Shield good enough to carry?

#

I think so

#

I did unlock weapons but forgot which

indigo marsh Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

I wonder if there's any point to Guan Yu spear

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

indigo marsh I wonder if there's any point to Guan Yu spear

Yes?

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

Fine will get on pc to check

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

warm shoal So is Zagreus Shield good enough to carry?

https://i.imgur.com/NP6KN7I.png

Imgur

indigo marsh Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

The health reduction looks so ridiculously painful

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

Also pinned in #h1-for-new-players btw.

ionic crown Jan 20, 2023, 10:28 PM

#

indigo marsh I wonder if there's any point to Guan Yu spear

Special and/or spin builds

#

Then upgrade the aspect and lessen the health reduction

tawny knoll Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

#

Also the regen

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

#

A few points tbh
The pointy part of the spear
Unlocking other hiddens aspects
Special focused builds go brrrr

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

#

Guan Yu is one of the best weapon aspects for no-hit runs.

tawny knoll Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

#

Pierced butterfly

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

#

Also doesn't allow for a lot of mistakes. So kind of a glass canon build. You either hate it or love it tbh.

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 PM

#

Pierced butterfly bouldy

tawny knoll Jan 20, 2023, 10:30 PM

#

Gong

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 10:30 PM

#

The only reason to use pierced butterfly is satisfying completionism

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:31 PM

#

So I checked and most unlocked are in the Twin fists

#

But want to do shield

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:32 PM

#

How much Titan Blood do you have?

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:32 PM

#

1 singular

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:32 PM

#

How much Ambrosia?

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:32 PM

#

I think I need those later

#

5 I think

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:33 PM

#

You'll get more later.

#

Trade in 4 Ambrosia and then upgrade Zag Shield to Lv.5. That'll make a huge difference.

#

Can you show what keepsakes you have?

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:34 PM

#

Ah one sec

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:34 PM

#

Can upload a screenshot to imgur or something to share it here.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:34 PM

#

Need to turn on pc again

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 10:35 PM

#

Fyi you need image links

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:35 PM

#

Also a screenshot of your mirror while you're at it.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:37 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1045456607053623316/1066124342351638670/image.png

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1045456607053623316/1066124497100484628/image.png

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1045456607053623316/1066124743943671848/image.png

#

just did it now

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:39 PM

#

Use a key to reset your mirror.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:39 PM

#

oh?

#

what do I put in then?

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 10:40 PM

#

Dark foresight is the biggest one

#

Family favourite as well

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:40 PM

#

I havent seen these ever, or I am blind

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 10:41 PM

#

Move to the left

#

To the arrows

#

You’ll see a opposing upgrade for each one

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:41 PM

#

First of all, max out Chthonic Vitality, Death Defiance, Greater Reflex, Thick Skin... and then swap Shadow Presence to Fiery Presence and max that. Privileged Status to Family Favorite and max that. Max out Deep Pockets. Then swap Olympian Favor for Dark Foresight and put all your remaining Darkness into that.

#

Not sure if you have enough to max Dark Foresight.

languid tree Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 PM

#

What level does family fav max out on

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 PM

#

Oh yeah, max Boiling Blood before you put Darkness into Dark Foresight.

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 PM

#

languid tree What level does family fav max out on

+5% per god, which is usually +25% in a run.

#

Standard god pool is 4 + Lord Hermes. Master Chaos doesn't count.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:44 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1045456607053623316/1066126005116338257/image.png

#

like this?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:44 PM

#

Yep. Put the rest in Boiling Blood.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:45 PM

#

got 20 dark to spare

#

infernal soul?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:45 PM

#

Sure, might as well.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:46 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1045456607053623316/1066126408843280434/image.png

#

it doesnt load for me

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:46 PM

#

Looks good. It loaded when I clicked on it.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:47 PM

#

So now what boons do I look out for?

#

Also you didnt say what keepsake to grab

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 10:48 PM

#

This is zag shield right

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:48 PM

#

Making dinner. tizomg

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:48 PM

#

Level 5 ye

ionic crown Jan 20, 2023, 10:48 PM

#

she is using the rat to cook

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 10:48 PM

#

Aphrodite atk, Zeus call, smoldering air

#

Start aphro

ionic crown Jan 20, 2023, 10:48 PM

#

also that

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:49 PM

#

tight basin Aphrodite atk, Zeus call, smoldering air

That one, yeah.

#

You wanna start with the Eternal Rose.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:50 PM

#

Then switch to what in 2nd area?

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 10:50 PM

#

Zeus

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:50 PM

#

Whats smoldering air?

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 10:51 PM

#

Aphro Zeus duo

#

Call caps at 0.25 but charges automatically

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:51 PM

#

Huh, also I need some pointers for "Bad Call"

#

It says to use a God's greater call against them in a trial

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:52 PM

#

Yeah.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:52 PM

#

How and when?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:53 PM

#

Trial of the Gods is when there are two boons in the chamber and you have to pick one and the other gets angry.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:53 PM

#

I get that part

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:53 PM

#

Get Call > be lucky enough to find a Trial of the Gods with that god > charge your god gauge to full during the fight by standing on magma or something > use Greater Call.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:53 PM

#

At 25%?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:54 PM

#

No, 100%.

#

Greater Call is max god gauge.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:54 PM

#

Huh so I was doing it too early

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 10:54 PM

#

Seems like it.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 10:54 PM

#

Enemies would be dead way earlier

#

So might get it in second layer for the lava

indigo marsh Jan 20, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

tries out Extreme Measures Lv4
gets utterly wrecked in third phase

#

Welp

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 11:19 PM

#

@warm shoal so for the build... start with the Eternal Rose and pick Heartbreak Strike. Try to get Heartbreak Strike to Lv.3 or Lv.4 in Tartarus hopefully with some poms there. Look for Zeus' Aid and then just look for both of them to get Smoldering Air.

Specials are worthless. Don't pick them up, don't press the button.

Call: only pick up Zeus' Aid, ignore the others. Put a couple poms on Zeus' Aid if you can.

Dash: only pick up Divine Dash or Tidal Dash. If you pick up Tidal Dash, put a couple poms on it and look for Breaking Wave or Razor Shoals from him, but Typhoon's Fury and Wave Pounding are also okay options. Don't put poms on Tidal Dash.

Cast: if you're not offered Zeus' Aid, can pick up Electric Shot. If you're not offered Divine Dash/Tidal Dash, can pick up their Casts respectively. If you already have those, then ignore the casts except maybe Phalanx Shot from Lady Athena is worth picking up because the deflect can be nice, but low priority. Don't put poms on your Cast.

When you leave Tartarus, equip the Thunder Signet to try to get Zeus' Aid. If you already have Zeus' Aid, equip it anway. If you already have Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air, take the Owl Pendant for Divine Dash. If you already that one (or Tidal Dash), too, then just grab the Coin Purse for some free money.

Poms are priority over Centaur Hearts and Obols, for the most part. But try to aim for at least 200 max HP before entering Elysium.

warm shoal Jan 20, 2023, 11:22 PM

#

I saved it

#

Can I beat Hades with just Shield Charges?

tight basin Jan 20, 2023, 11:24 PM

#

Yes

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 11:24 PM

#

If you're very unlucky and she doesn't offer you Heartbreak Strike... take Passion Dash and then we'll go a slightly different route from there.

Attack: look for Deadly Strike (Lady Artemis) and then don't put any poms on that but rather look for her Hunter's Mark and pom that instead to Lv.3 or Lv.4.

Once you have Deadly Strike, you want Heart Rend (their Duo Boon).

Special: ignore all

Cast: if Lady Artemis doesn't offer Attack, taking her Cast is fine, otherwise ignore all. Don't pom it. (You still want to look for her Attack, taking the Cast is just to make it easier to find the Attack.)

Dash: already locked in with Passion Dash here.

Call: Artemis' Aid (upgrade at minimum to Lv.3 to make it worthwhile, only use at max gauge during boss fights) or Zeus' Aid (similar to above build, look for Smoldering Air)

#

Best hammers are Charged Shot and Pulverizing Blow.

#

Best boons from Lord Hermes are Greatest Reflex, Hyper Sprint, Second Wind, and Greater Evasion.

#

If you get to Eurydice, 9/10 times take her Refreshing Nectar.

#

And the other 1/10 times... just take her Refreshing Nectar anyway. tizomg

plain river Jan 20, 2023, 11:29 PM

#

cunning urchin Best boons from Lord Hermes are Greatest Reflex, Hyper Sprint, Second Wind, and ...

RD if you have HS though

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 11:34 PM

#

I think that's adding more depth than necessary. m trying to keep it simple. tizomg

raw elbow Jan 20, 2023, 11:51 PM

#

I dont want to add a pic, but does using Spear-Hades make selling boons give 0 gold?

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 11:53 PM

#

Nope.

#

That's a Chaos Curse.

#

For the next n encounters, you cannot earn Obols.

#

Pauper's curse.

#

Pretty sad if you have Underworld Customs on and that curse. sneeb

raw elbow Jan 20, 2023, 11:56 PM

#

Huh ... you're right ... I thought I grabbed it early enough to have it evolve after Furies.

cunning urchin Jan 20, 2023, 11:58 PM

#

I think that's the most common curse that people just forget they have lol.

#

Since it mostly doesn't do anything noticeable.

#

And then you take obols, and you get 0.

#

I entered an Infernal Gate for double obols one time and got 0.

#

sneeb

raw elbow Jan 21, 2023, 12:13 AM

#

Infernal Trove or Erebus? Either way that's still oof, but the latter especially so because of having to not get hit to get the reward at all: at that point the onions might be better 😅

cunning urchin Jan 21, 2023, 12:15 AM

#

raw elbow Infernal Trove or Erebus? Either way that's still oof, but the latter especially...

Infernal Gates lead to Erebus. dusa

indigo marsh Jan 21, 2023, 12:38 AM

#

So, what loadout would you guys suggest for EM4 Hades

valid dagger Jan 21, 2023, 12:38 AM

#

indigo marsh So, what loadout would you guys suggest for EM4 Hades

Get gud build, win, repeat

vagrant crane Jan 21, 2023, 1:34 AM

#

whats vague beowulf

vagrant crane Jan 21, 2023, 1:56 AM

#

this build is awesome lol

#

hunting blades and heart rend on zagbow

neon terrace Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 AM

#

is there a list of all imoossible hammer combos? i know triple bomb + cluster bomb cant happen but idk what else

plain river Jan 21, 2023, 3:45 AM

#

neon terrace is there a list of all imoossible hammer combos? i know triple bomb + cluster bo...

Yep

#

If you check the wiki it’ll tell you for a given weapon in the hammer section for that weapon

#

And I’m 99% sure I know them all off by head by now

neon terrace Jan 21, 2023, 3:57 AM

#

which ones do u know

tight basin Jan 21, 2023, 3:58 AM

#

quick spin and flurry jab dont work

#

hazard rocket, hazard cluster

neon terrace Jan 21, 2023, 3:58 AM

#

oh well those i knew

#

flurry jab deletes spin

#

and hazard is incompatible with every other special hammer besides targeting afaik

plain river Jan 21, 2023, 4:00 AM

#

neon terrace which ones do u know

Srry got distracted

plain river Jan 21, 2023, 4:04 AM

#

neon terrace which ones do u know

Flurry slash, cruel thrust and world splitter all lock out each other
Flurry jab locks out the spin hammers and vice versa
Explosive launcher blocks out chain skewer and vicious skewer
Dashing flight and charged flight are incompatible iirc
Triple shot and twin shot lock each other out
Twin shot and sniper shot aren’t compatible
Charged and relentless volley
Explosive, flurry and chain shot all lock each other out

#

Going to fists uh

#

Kinetic launcher is (iirc) compatible with flying cutter, rush kick and

#

I think I may be blanking for fist hammers

#

Oh explosive upper is what I’m missing

#

A bunch of the fists special hammers are incompatible but the attack hammers aren’t

#

Hazard bomb is incompatible with rocket, triple and cluster bomb
Cluster and triple are incompatible
Flurry, delta, and spread fire are all incompatible with each other
Explosive, richochet and piercing fire are all incompatible

#

Actually

cunning urchin Jan 21, 2023, 4:09 AM

#

Cursed Slash is incompatible with good high heat runs.

plain river Jan 21, 2023, 4:09 AM

#

Are ricochet fire and piercing compatible? I’m unsure