h1-builds-and-combat

[twin cloak]

Idk man as someone with around 10 40 Heat runs

[turbid needle]

That’s true, I use it every time I can, but all of her other boons are kind of useless most of the time

[tight basin]

tbh i think athena is top tier for low and high heat, considering it provides safety to every players of varying skill level

and also a considerable damage % bonus

[random relic]

^^^

sure footing and athena dds are insane

and deflect boons are nice

[twin cloak]

wait how does athena dd work with sd

[random relic]

you burn your sd first

[tight basin]

lose your sd before picking up athena dd, you get a free dd

[random relic]

yeah

[twin cloak]

lmao wtf

[tight basin]

next room, you have both dd and sd

and sd gets used first iirc

[random relic]

yep

its kinda cracked

[lavish trail]

am I the only one who almost never uses the well of charon?

and saves all my obol for the shop?

the only time I'll use the well is for yarn of ariadne or Hp

[tight basin]

charon wells kinda cracked tho

[lavish trail]

or to get back a dd

I dont usually run the temporary upgrades

even though I know that I should defo use it more

I just have a "i should save my money for late game shops" mentality

[tight basin]

extra cast or more cast damage for cast builds are pretty good short term

also hourglass kinda cracked because of wells

[lavish trail]

i've probbaly used hourglass the least of any keepsake but maybe one or two others

there's just always another one I want to use more

[tight basin]

if you're consistent at clearing runs, hourglass isn't a bad option for elysium

if there's a good item in the well, take the hourglass and buy it, it'll last through all of ely and part of styx
right when you finish ely, if you're lucky enough to see another good item in the well there, buy it then switch the keepsake if you want

speed bonus if you have rush delivery, extra cast, extra damage, all very good options

[lavish trail]

yeah i get that

but for me, if i'm not doing a specific shackle run, I'm almost always onto spiked collar in Styx

[tight basin]

why spiked collar

[lavish trail]

unless I have an insane amount of hp or I'm using butterfly/plume

I like the HP

[tight basin]

skelly's keepsake is 100 extra hp tho

wait technically collar is more with DD i guess

[lavish trail]

Collar is more with DD

yeah

[tight basin]

i mean eh sure i guess, i prefer acorn for defensive tho

[lavish trail]

I just feel comfy with the HP

[tight basin]

tunnels aren't too much trouble imo

[lavish trail]

I use acorn if I have a lot of HP too

In the run I'm pausing currently to type this, I already have 300hp in Elysium and I have EM dad coming up so I'll probably acorn

[tight basin]

oh em dad is fun

[lavish trail]

How common are keyboard players in this game?

Because I'm a keyboard player, tried controller for a bit and never liked it

[tight basin]

there's a lot of kbm players

a lot of top speedrunners use kbm, a lot use controller

both are pretty valid to use

[dreamy prism]

keyboard superior tbh

I say authoritatively having never tried controller

[random relic]

yep same

keyboard is definitively better

i havent touched a controller in years

[soft kiln]

i cannot imagine trying to play this kbm

i would absolutely never dash in the correct direction

[lavish trail]

It's not hard once youre used to it

Honestly it's easier to mess up the direction of your casts than it is the direction of your dashes

[tight basin]

you just dash the way you fingers are positioned, which is more or less the same concept as controller lol

[soft kiln]

oh man i never realized how much faster ice wine makes the cast

[twin cloak]

I have never touched a controller in my life

[unkempt scroll]

When your attack deals extra dmg against armor, does it also count for dash attacks?

[lucid oar]

I think the only one this applies for is piercing fire, the answer is yeah it does work with dash strikes

[unkempt scroll]

Hm, dang... I really don't like that attack Megera uses, the one where she throws out a ton of balls. Are there easier ways to dodge it??

[granite furnace]

Try to get some distance once she starts doing the volley, they get a lot easier to dodge

[unkempt scroll]

I'll try

[lavish trail]

Just stand at the end of the room and jiggle back and forth in an open spot

[lavish trail]

i hate those runs where you just dont really get much of a good build at all

forgive me for not knowing the name of it, but is the sword build with the flurry slash and whatever the one is that heals you per hit a good build?

I've had some really fun games with it on Zeus attack but it's gimmicky af

[acoustic vale]

No

[valid dagger]

It's cheesy but if you want to play sword properly both of those hammers are detrimental

[acoustic vale]

Cursed slash is terrible

[lavish trail]

I've done some cursed slash/flurry slash combo runs and had a lot of fun but those were super low heat

what's the "proper build" for a sword? I usually play poseidon and go for exit wounds cast build

what's a good sword melee build?

[cunning urchin]

There's no "proper" way to play.

[lavish trail]

Yeah, not "proper" so much as "optimal for higher heats"

[cunning urchin]

There's a meta for competitive play, though.

[valid dagger]

That's the cheesy part of it, it works at low heat and it's not hard to use, but at higher heat it just cant keep up and outheal enemies etc

[lavish trail]

So what's the conventional understanding of a good sword build then?

I'm guessing a lost of dash thrusts and crits?

[cunning urchin]

I wrote a guide for Nemesis here: #h1-for-new-players message

[lavish trail]

Yeah I don't play crit builds very often at all

Most of the time when I"m playing Artemis it's for a cast build like exit wounds or hunting blades. I gotta learn crit stuff but I've just found it underwhelming when I've tried so far, even though I know it's some of the best stuff in the game

I started with always hunting Zeus, Ares or Athena builds, then I discovered how awesome Aphrodite builds can be, now I gotta get my Dionysus and Artemis games leveled up

[soft kiln]

does hunter's mark count as a status condition for
status?

[plain river]

Yes

[soft kiln]

neat

[lavish trail]

at what heat would you say a run isnt considered low heat anymore?

[plain river]

Every god other then hermes has a status effect for pstatus

[lavish trail]

I guess once it forces you to stop using the easy ones like Jury summons/Extreme measures/timer?

[proper furnace]

for leaderboard purposes is 32+ (aka last skelly prize requirement)

[lavish trail]

Oh okay

I don't consider 20 heat low heat quite yet, I still struggle with that unless I've got a good build, but I can clear up to like 13-14 heat fairly easily with most weapons

[plain river]

65 heat is kinda low heat

[lavish trail]

I've only cleared 32 with the rail I think

Hestia shackle build

easy win

[plain river]

Oh yeah

Shackle hestia is a free win right there

On the topic of shackle I’m trying to complete a run with each weapon using it

[lavish trail]

with gilgamesh shackle will maim do 800 dmg?

[plain river]

Don’t think so

[lavish trail]

booooo

[plain river]

Because maim isn’t effected by flourishes either I believe so I don’t think it’d be effected by shackle

[proper furnace]

you need your usual "enemies take more dmg" buffs i think

[lavish trail]

yet another reason why demeter > gilgamesh

[plain river]

Rush delivery, targetting system, the boon which makes weakened foes take more damage, etcetera

[proper furnace]

rd doesnt count

[plain river]

rd doesn’t count?

[proper furnace]

cherry on the speedrun server prob would noticed it

[plain river]

Would pstatus or ff increase maim?

[proper furnace]

nope

those are do more dmg

not "enemies take more dmg"

first increases things dmg sources from zag, second also buffs things like traps

why maim isnt affected by first? idk

[plain river]

Shackle sword gaming is so sad with no tidal dash(or any other dash)

[soft kiln]

does jerky effect status damage or just the base special damage

[proper furnace]

base

[plain river]

Base

[proper furnace]

flat dmg is always through global dmg

[plain river]

Purple greater haste purple rush delivery on pos sword but no tidal dash

What are the other good dashes for damage purpose?

Blade dash? dio dash?

[proper furnace]

blade gud

[plain river]

Dio no gud?

Is it just tidal and blade for damage from dash?

was about to ask about zeus dash but remembered zeus dash on sword glitch exists 💀

[proper furnace]

unless you can add some poms i dont like nasty dash

[soft kiln]

ugh nemesis sword ruining my streak

[plain river]

Nem sword did what?

How’d it ruin you streak?

[iron barn]

hermes' status effect is bad news

[soft kiln]

sword is the only weapon i just don't really get

so i died

[proper furnace]

sword hard

[soft kiln]

it didn't literally ruin my streak obviously because it's a skill issue

not a nemesis issue. but it's meh

probably my fault for going dio/ares

[lavish trail]

oh damn

just started an achilles run

first two boons are Ares and Artemis

I think i know where we're going with this

[tight basin]

Damn lucky

[lavish trail]

chaos just gave my cast +39% dmg???

[plain river]

Yeah

[soft kiln]

started an aspect of poseidon run with epic flood shot

should i go erebus pom room or hammer

i'm leaning to double pom cause who cares about hammers

[dreamy prism]

pos doesn't like hammers that much

super nova and dedge are always good of course but not crucial

[lavish trail]

hey so I'm in a achilles run and already have hunting blades before I'm even out ofd tartarus, What should I switch my keepsake to to put on my attack? Or how to I optimally add to this build?

[soft kiln]

poseidon for mirage shot

[tight basin]

yes i was gonna say that

idk what you'd put poseidon on for your build but some core boon lol

[proper furnace]

dash usually

[lavish trail]

Attack probably

I already have artemis on the dash

[proper furnace]

do you have arte special?

[lavish trail]

I dash strike constantly with the spear

[tight basin]

see i thought about that but i feel like you'd end up knocking them out of the blades lol

[lavish trail]

I don't have attack or special on yet

[soft kiln]

i have art special/flood shot with poseidon

[proper furnace]

how did you get hunting blade then pretty sure dash isnt a requisite

[lavish trail]

Artemis is on dash strike

Yes it is

[soft kiln]

do i take aphro call, attack, or dash?

[tight basin]

Ares: Slicing Shot
Artemis: Deadly Strike, Deadly Flourish, Hunter Dash or Artemis' Aid
Cannot Be Combined With Freezing Vortex

[lavish trail]

check #h1-victory-boasting where i posted a ss

[tight basin]

apparently it is lol

[dreamy prism]

hunter dash is prereq for hunting blades but not mirage shot

why

[proper furnace]

i hate artemis

[soft kiln]

i'm sort of deciding between demeter or zeus as my 4th

[lavish trail]

So since I don't have art on my special or attack I can't get mirage shot with poseidon unless i get another art boon too?

[tight basin]

yeah

[lavish trail]

Is it worth it to roll with pos and hope I get another art?

[tight basin]

yeah

[dreamy prism]

might as well

[proper furnace]

no need to attack the same enemy you are hunting blade, just throw them out there and go wack another dude with wet dash

[lavish trail]

My goal is to get hermes legendary for instablade

alright I'll see how it goes

[tight basin]

your main hunting blades core is already so just grab whatever else you want pretty much lmao

[tight basin]

fair

[proper furnace]

also for normal rooms tidal dash + breaking wave is prob gonna be faster for room clearing than HB

[soft kiln]

so aphro attack, dash, or aid? already have art special/poseidon cast

if i go aid i can go zeus attack and have smair and sea storm

[tight basin]

atk prob

i think zeus call is stronger than aphro call

[soft kiln]

i love aphro call for dad

but that's fair

should i go for zeus after or demeter? demeter gives me another cast duo

[tight basin]

doesn't that make flood shot go super slow and weird

[proper furnace]

4 god builds kinda rare

[proper furnace]

blizzard is fun

[tight basin]

if you do end up getting a 4 god build i'd rather have zeus tbh

[soft kiln]

i need to watch people do runs because i have no idea how a 4 god build is rare. i always have 4 gods

[proper furnace]

not always the 4 gods you want

is not that rare you get a 1 exit with an useless god

[soft kiln]

sure but i'm almost out of tart with 3

[plain river]

2 god builds 💪💪💪

[proper furnace]

1 boon and a hammer 💪

[dreamy prism]

zshield gaming

[random relic]

zeus shield needs more than that tbh

[lavish trail]

lmao I have mirage shot/hunting blades/vicious cycle

well this game is over

sad that it's at such low heat, I'm not doing EM dad

[dreamy prism]

wdym

isn't zeus shield just aspectless shield

[tight basin]

Actually true

[random relic]

god i really hate that so much

[lavish trail]

what's a good Chiron bow build?

I usually just roll with Dionysus on the special but I don't really know what's good beyond that

[tight basin]

aphrodite attack

their duo boon lets you stack hangover 8 times instead of 5

and run pstatus

[plain river]

World splitter isn’t a bad grab right?

Also bananas is right

[lavish trail]

what's pstatus?

[tight basin]

is that the one where your attack is big chop

[tight basin]

mirror

[plain river]

privilieged status on the mirror

[tight basin]

counterpart to family favorites

[plain river]

Yes

90 base damage swing

[tight basin]

that's pretty bad isn't it lmao

[plain river]

idk

I’m running shackle pos sword

piercing wave, world splitter or super nova

[tight basin]

what does super nova do? double damage special but no knockback?

[plain river]

Because I’m trying to get shackle clears on every aspect

[soft kiln]

super nova increases sp;ecial radius

i think

that seems good

[plain river]

It’s bigger nova and +20% damage

[tight basin]

why not take that then lmao

[plain river]

wait I’m stupid

[tight basin]

the other two fundamentally change how sword is played lmao

[plain river]

I already have double nova so I might as well grab super nova as well

wooooh

Finally

Purple splash dash in elysium

[soft kiln]

poseidon sword is so much easier to win with than nem sword lol

[plain river]

🤨

[soft kiln]

at least it is for me i like cast builds

[tight basin]

i mean poseidon sword is a more passive playstyle than nemesis if you're relying on the cast more

[soft kiln]

i always kill myself with sword

i'm fine with fists

[dense basin]

I personally prefer nemesis sword than poseidon - casting in the middle of combo seems strange to me

But I'm not calling it weak

[plain river]

Why would you cast mid combo

[proper furnace]

pos is good cuz you can ignore sword

[plain river]

Also just dash strike and don’t combo

[tight basin]

isn't the combo just throw cast, special, do whatever while waiting for the casts to pick up, then repeat

[soft kiln]

i'm not attacking with the sword unless i want to special to get the casts back

so it's more like cast cast cast find opening to special cast cast cast

[solar patrol]

So what aspects are good for high heat?

[dense basin]

That's what I meant

[proper furnace]

how high?

[dense basin]

Dash strikes + special

[solar patrol]

32 or above preferably above

[proper furnace]

for 32 everything works

[tight basin]

zeus shield with no special boon

[solar patrol]

Ok then what about 40-50 heat

[proper furnace]

40 everything still works somewhat fine, but il start going for basically any of the shields/rama/zag bow/rails/gy

[plain river]

Everything works but does anything perform significantly better or worse at that range?

[proper furnace]

do i need to answer that to you

[plain river]

That’s kinda what they asked

[tight basin]

at 32 heat i think you're still avoiding some of the nasty pacts like dc, cp, and js

[solar patrol]

Normally the logic is ranged is better than melee since it’s easier to use well that’s the logic with games

[tight basin]

so i think everything is still fine until you have to take some of those pacts

[proper furnace]

arthur starts getting rekt once you get fo

most cast weapons start suffering once you get to ap/ri most than normal weapon

[solar patrol]

Ok now I am curious what heat and pacts do you all think is a good challenge level even if it starts to exclude weapon/build options

[twin cloak]

ri4 ap2 dc2 hs em4 cp3 td3 arthur goes hard trust me

[dense basin]

Arthur can manage FO2 - for example when going tank (Aphro attack, Athena dash etc)

[dreamy prism]

based

@random relic thoughts?

[soft kiln]

I think Zeus shield is boring af. I like chaos but apparently it's bad and Beowulf is just insane I think?

[proper furnace]

beo is just dumb yeah

@chilly loom vicius works, just half effective for whatever reason

no reason not to take it

[soft kiln]

I find Zeus difficult to coordinate while also doing regular attack stuff. It takes so much effort to put in the right spot and micromanage that I just don't do other stuff

[proper furnace]

zeus is hard yeah

[soft kiln]

How do I see people putting a million poms in a single boon

Are you basically done with the build very early and then take every pom room?

[proper furnace]

mom pom/fated authorithy and pom rooms yeah

[proper furnace]

@soft kilnares legendary is a +1 per consecutive hit on cast/dash

works correctly on call and doesnt work at all on flare

[chilly loom]

ok, thanks.

[chilly loom]

I personally think zeus shield is the most fun shield aspect

[soft kiln]

Selling everything but the boon you care about too?

[proper furnace]

yup

taking unpommables also helps

[tight basin]

also aphro pos duo if you happen to find it

i think yesterday i got like lvl 15 or something flood flare because of it lmao

[random relic]

yeah but its optimal to play it without using the cast part

or without using it very much lol

[plain river]

Just don’t pick up other pommables

[lavish trail]

how good is distant memory for the bow? Is it worth playing with?

[strange lark]

Not good

Bow is a melee weapon

[lavish trail]

yeah I put on distant memory and instantly got triple shot

[lavish trail]

how do I make the shield feel like I'm doing damage with it?

I can never make this thing feel good

[tight basin]

which aspect

[lavish trail]

i'm playing zeus with zeus on the special and I'm doing some nice chunky damage but in general I've never been able to make the shield attack itself feel worthwhile

Not even with Beowulf

[tight basin]

try getting smair

and with beo are you aware of the mirage shot bug

[lavish trail]

okay yeah I lover smair but once again that doesn't make the shield itself any good

[plain river]

I mean beo is cast focused not attack focused

[lavish trail]

So the point of the shield is that you aren't attacking with the shield and it's mostly good for casts/specials?

I've never heard of the mirage shot bug no

[tight basin]

well zag shield has better attack damage

[lavish trail]

I NEVER play the shielf

[tight basin]

mirage shot does double damage with the flares on beo

instead of the normal 30% boost

[plain river]

have you heard of the artemis flare bug on beo where it crits 1000000% of the time for 3000% damage

because that’s definitely real

[tight basin]

totally

[strange lark]

Usually putting something like Dio or ares is good on the attack

Demeter is good too if you get killing freeze

The best one imo is aphro

Because if you get a call you can get smair

You pretty much never focus on using the attack itself to deal damage on zeus

Unless you get charged shot

[lavish trail]

i just got charged shot and man this feels way better

Okay so the deal with shield is that you are just building around it and not really using the shield itself for much damage at all?

[strange lark]

Yeah

Zag shield and chaos shield do build around the attack tho

And beo uses the attack for some decent damage in tart

[tight basin]

beo attack can one shot the witches and the weird pot thingies so that's neat lol

[lavish trail]

Yo is it just me or is Smair- Billowing call broken? Does that just give you a permanent 20% dmg increase?

[strange lark]

Yes

[dreamy prism]

zag shield, hope for charged shot

then aphro or arty attack

your dps cycle is standing strike -> charge for a fraction of a second -> release charged shot

repeat

[lavish trail]

So guan yu is just bad, right>?

LIke it's just a bad aspect?

Feels totaly worthless in EM dad fight from my experience

good for rooms rull of enemies but not good for bosses

[dreamy prism]

nah it's good

arguably the best of the spears

[strange lark]

Best for high heat

Even tho you start with 50% hp

[lavish trail]

so in a high heat run youre starting with literally 25 hp and enemies are doing +20% dmg???

Or do I just not understand how real high heat works

I'm hanging out down here at 15-20 heat still

[plain river]

No?

[lavish trail]

how on earth do you use it then? I've had good runs but the life steal just doesn't keep up with EM dad dmg when I've tried it

[random relic]

the life steal part isnt that great

[plain river]

Just don’t use spin for lifesteal? It already has a really good special and the dash strikes are also good I think

only use spin for lifesteal if you have quick spin

[random relic]

you generally use special with aphro/arty special and hope for charged skewer

[lavish trail]

oh damn yeah I can see that now

[random relic]

if you dont get that, quick spin is good, massive spin is ok

[lavish trail]

Charged skewer with it would be sick

When I've played I've tried to buff the spin attack and I just dont scale the damage to cope with Hades himself

I usually have just gotten annoyed at the low damage on the special and ignored it

I only just started really playing spear recently though, I mained rail and fists for like the first 150 hours I played this game

[valid dagger]

Special damage will fall off pretty hard after Asphodel if you don’t get the hammer

If you do however you basically only need 1 boon and a couple of poms to finish the run

[past zinc]

is there any other weapons than sword that get some healing effect?

[lavish trail]

guan yu spear

otherwise if you really feel in a pinch for insta healing in game, use bouldy, he drops some heals if you really need them

[past zinc]

I have yet to do my first clear sadly xD second day of playing. died 3 times on hades

[lavish trail]

man it's always wild how much better people are at games than me from their first playthorughs

[past zinc]

usually I go for cursed slash and special dash hammer upgrades with some artemis perks to just q from hunters mark to hunters mark with some auto attacks in there

[lavish trail]

I'd never played a roguelike or really any top down rpg when I started hades. I had no clue how any mechanics worked in this genre of game or anything. So it took me over 40 tries to get my first clear

[past zinc]

doubt this is optimal but it keeps me alive until hades

[random relic]

fists has draining cutter

[lavish trail]

cursed slash isnt great. Probably better to use your darkness to get more death defiance from the mirror and just try to build up HP

[valid dagger]

You can definitely try some other strats, Sword isn’t a particularly beginner friendly weapon

[random relic]

but draining cutter is kinda

[past zinc]

I thought sword was the easiest :I

[valid dagger]

It’s probably the hardest

[random relic]

yeah

[past zinc]

I mean all I do is q -> lmb and I beat everything

[lavish trail]

if you really need hp, you can ||give your nectar to cerberus and he will give you the spiked collar, which can give you up to 50hp||

[valid dagger]

I think you should focus on enemy patterns and using your iframes well to dodge them

[dreamy prism]

based

[valid dagger]

Instead of taking the hits then thinking about how to heal back

[past zinc]

I'm just a sucker for lifesteal

I get it in any game I play if it's in it

[valid dagger]

This is how most new people play sword, but standing attacks have very low base damage and they’re slow and you’re stuck in place so dash strikes are much much stronger, especially if you get Double Edge, what you want to be doing is Special > x2 Dash strikes basically

[past zinc]

standing attacks? but special gets a dash upgrade from hammer

[valid dagger]

I’m talking about the followup after you Special

[past zinc]

ah

[valid dagger]

That hammer is kind of a meme, the damage reduction can be alright but the leap is hard to control and sword already requires you to be deliberate enough as it is if you want to do good damage and have a smooth rotation

[past zinc]

for me it's a lot easier to control than with dashing

[valid dagger]

Well dashes have iframes

[past zinc]

true

[valid dagger]

Cursed Slash can cheese you an early clear for sure, you only really need to play like this at high heat or if you’re speedrunning, but it’s optimal for a reason

[iron barn]

is it possible to dash strike hestia empowered shot

[tight basin]

yes

[iron barn]

how

[valid dagger]

Dash then attack

[tight basin]

yeah idk how else to explain it lol

they do the same damage

[iron barn]

it just doesnt work for me for some reason

[tight basin]

so you can't tell if you get it or not unless you have a dash strike modifier

[strange lark]

It doesn't count for the dash strike thing when you pick it up in the courtyard if you are wondering

[iron barn]

oh

[strange lark]

It's still a dash strike

[iron barn]

but the modifier still affects it?

[tight basin]

yes

[strange lark]

It's not considered a regular attack but gets the buffs

[iron barn]

ok thanks i was confused bc of the courtyard tutorial not triggering

oop just hit chamber 7 heart rend on hestia

[lavish trail]

Bro I got red doom atk, purple Athena special with Demeter and then didn't get merciful end for the rest of the entire run, lost to EM Hades because of bad rolls

[dreamy prism]

ME after not getting the duo in tartarus and dying because doom sucks

[random relic]

so true

[soft kiln]

are you suggesting abandoning the build if you don't have ME by the end of tartarus?

[strange lark]

When I don't get c4 ME 😭

[dreamy prism]

is joke but ME needs the build setup early to be fast tbh

since the build is pretty dysfunctional without ME + ddash

[strange lark]

This is why hestia is the best ME aspect

[random relic]

if i was running an MEspect? maybe lmao

[proper furnace]

Me but c3 ME

[random relic]

build is kinda functional without ddash

but not without ME

[dreamy prism]

c3 YOU better

[strange lark]

You will never exit tart

[random relic]

yeah well welcome to MEspects

rarity resetting

[strange lark]

I mean you can do the dstrike dstrike special combo to proc doom but yeah kinda sucks

[dreamy prism]

this reminds me of someone posting their insane highroll zagspear run where they got like 3 high rarity chaos flourishes

then someone did the math and it did less damage than hesty + aphro attack

[random relic]

wait youre supposed to double dstrike then dupper?

i just do dstrike and dupper on the same dash

[strange lark]

Idk I don't play fists

Fists suck

[dreamy prism]

fists is bad because it comes with the term dupper

[strange lark]

Shield also has dupper when you have dashing foight

Flight

a

[dreamy prism]

wtf I'm shaking and crying

never touching shield again

[tight basin]

bold statement from someone who did no special boon zeus on 50 heat

[dreamy prism]

lmao

[strange lark]

That's how you play Zeus

[dreamy prism]

by the end I stopped picking up boons because I thought no special zeus would be funny

[strange lark]

Next do no attack boon fists

[dreamy prism]

that's just gilga

[strange lark]

NO CAST BEOWULF

[strange lark]

What's a gilga

[tight basin]

no cast beo with mirage kinda poggers

[strange lark]

I did that once

Damage was decent

[tight basin]

it's a couple hundred yeah lol

[strange lark]

https://youtu.be/Si6chLU5Fnk

Played the fight horribly

[random relic]

https://streamable.com/7v1t7y like this

embed

https://streamable.com/7v1t7y

[strange lark]

I know what you mean

[random relic]

yeah

anyway theres no way thats not optimal

[strange lark]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-ryan-gosling-cereal-embed-failure-laugh-at-this-user-gif-20627924

[random relic]

why is that a thing

[dreamy prism]

wtf only 32 heat

where 50 no flare

[random relic]

?

oh

that

[strange lark]

Doing it rn

[dreamy prism]

good

[strange lark]

When are you doing it

[random relic]

god i really hope next aotw is a shield

[strange lark]

I hope it's gilgamesh

[random relic]

anyway with the little time i have left im going to try talos heat

[strange lark]

chaos

[random relic]

id be fine with that

[strange lark]

Why

Chaos sucks

Literally bad zag shield

Bad zeus

Bad beowulf

[random relic]

well yeah its bad zag

but its pretty much just zag

[strange lark]

Zag but even worse without cshot

[random relic]

i forgot how bad talos is

and MEspects in general

[strange lark]

@fading nymph

:croven:

[random relic]

wow talos really is just worse than zag fists

[fading nymph]

S;ANDER

it isn't

[random relic]

oh this definitely is

[fading nymph]

factually incorrect

people just say that because they don't want to learn it

no it isn't

[random relic]

your aspect isnt even half functional without ddash unlike other fist aspects

[strange lark]

50% more attack damage = 50% faster times

[fading nymph]

its slightly more damage than zag fists

sleep soul calced it

[random relic]

it cant even do the dstrike dupper thing

not very well, at least

[fading nymph]

theres a lot of tech you can do with the magnet

[random relic]

how much does the tech actually matter

[strange lark]

What's the magnet tech

[random relic]

yeah what is the magnet tech

[fading nymph]

it helps hit a lot of breakpoints

if you watch sleep soul or ananke you can see they use it a lot in tart

[strange lark]

Wait who's ananke

[fading nymph]

idk

thats a good question

[random relic]

i mean

zag fists does have a faster time than talos

definitely bc talos is worse and not because of rng

[fading nymph]

yes talos is clealry better than zeus sheild

[random relic]

well at speedrunning it would appear so

but zeus has many 62s and talos has what, a few 50s?

[dreamy prism]

and my talos cod 64

[strange lark]

And my boonless Talos 65

[dreamy prism]

that was with modpack cheat engine though

[strange lark]

Still counts

You just jealous

[dreamy prism]

I am, your overwhelming skill is a massive sore spot for me

[random relic]

anyway any aspect that has to rarity reset is just irredeemable trash

[fading nymph]

also I don't see zag fist sub4 checkmate

[strange lark]

Just get epic boons

[strange lark]

That's true

Talos seeded fists wr

[twin cloak]

Talos true shot goes crazy

[fading nymph]

🗿

[random relic]

yeah ok nevermind not doing talos heat

i dont like fists and MEspects and talos is both and just bad

[fading nymph]

you just have to believe

smh

just play drunken strike

[random relic]

instead im going to play ping pong

[fading nymph]

thats what I did for my 45

[random relic]

the casuals favorite talos build

[fading nymph]

its good

if you don't want ME

or zap

[plain river]

The “casuals” bruh, pos talos is wr for 128 heat

[fading nymph]

[plain river]

[strange lark]

Facts

[fading nymph]

🤣

[random relic]

are there any special hammers that are compatible with talos

[fading nymph]

yes

which means

higher breaching cross odds

[random relic]

which ones

[fading nymph]

:croven:

[strange lark]

Hey nice nickname

[fading nymph]

kenetic, rush kick, something else

[random relic]

no kinetic doesnt work and neither does rush kick

[proper furnace]

Quake smth works

[fading nymph]

slander

[proper furnace]

And draining

[fading nymph]

quake works yeah

[strange lark]

Who actually used quake tho

[random relic]

oh quake

[fading nymph]

oh I thought you meant things that arent

I cant read

explosive upper works

[random relic]

ooh explosive upper?

is that additive or base damage

[fading nymph]

unmodded wr starts with it

[strange lark]

Base pretty sure

Idk

[dreamy prism]

I've always liked explosive upper

it feels like the best of the special hammers

[fading nymph]

thats because it is

[dreamy prism]

gaming

[proper furnace]

Explosive is based

[strange lark]

Kinetic launcher gang

[random relic]

anyways time to play talos pong

[dreamy prism]

what's the one that makes you snap to enemies

that one's funny

[proper furnace]

Rush kick?

[strange lark]

What

[plain river]

Rush kick?

[dreamy prism]

yeah that must be it

[strange lark]

Kush Rick?

[dreamy prism]

these baseless accusations against our beloved rick could tear this community apart

[fading nymph]

rush kick is fun

[random relic]

god even ping pong builds are bad

who even plays this aspect

[fading nymph]

me

I do

[tight basin]

i'm sorry for your loss

[dreamy prism]

bro that's what I was thinking when I was trying talos 40

I literally had to purge pos special because it was downgrading me

[random relic]

talos is not a fun aspect

[strange lark]

I had fun with it as a casual player

But now that I am top 10 hades players of all time I hate it

[dreamy prism]

I don't like you with green name

feels weird

[fading nymph]

hi top 10 hades player of all time

[strange lark]

Deal with it 😎

[dreamy prism]

rip 🤣

[random relic]

🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔

[strange lark]

I got unmodded 32 heat onion so I must be one of the hades players of all time

[random relic]

is that actually onion?

[strange lark]

Yeah

Barely

[random relic]

nice lmao

anyway im done trying talos forever

this was a waste of 15 titan blood

[plain river]

15?

[strange lark]

Based

[random relic]

1+2+3+4+5=15

[strange lark]

?????????????

[plain river]

Forgot you needed to unlock aspects

[strange lark]

Makes no sense

[random relic]

sorry my bad ill try to explain it a little clearer

[plain river]

The cost of upgrading it to max was 15

[random relic]

1-1+1+2-2+2+3-3+3+4-4+4+5-5+5=15

[strange lark]

Can you do it on a number line

[dreamy prism]

is this you leveling up talos and giving up runs one by one

[random relic]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/845087923779141682/1003501211208650833/unknown.png

[strange lark]

Ok thanks

[plain river]

I forgot that you had to use titan blood to unlock aspects

[plain river]

Based

[random relic]

im going to use a backup save to get my titan blood back

i could have used this to level up a good aspect

like chaos

or arthur

[dreamy prism]

you should max arthur tbh

it's such a different playstyle I think it's worth experiencing

[random relic]

i dont like it

[dreamy prism]

and pre 50 it's not that frustrating tbh

[random relic]

i still dont like it

[fading nymph]

incorrect

[random relic]

what wrong with it?

[fading nymph]

you

are wrong

[random relic]

idk

have you tried playing any other aspect?

theyre so much smoother

[fading nymph]

10+5 is actually 16

you forgot the tax smh

[tight basin]

currently trying blizzard shot talos i forgot how much damage blizzard shot can do lmao

talos still kinda wack tho

[twin cloak]

Blizzard shot goes crazy

[random relic]

tax only exists on the good aspects (like demeter)

[fading nymph]

I would like to request a citation

[strange lark]

Source: trust me bro

[random relic]

demeter is 16 blood

talos is 15

its bc demeter is good

[tight basin]

true

[fading nymph]

actually

unlocking talos costs 1

so the game isn't pay to win

[twin cloak]

There's an L in taLos for a reason

[fading nymph]

ambler

[sterile fiber]

what did I pop in to

[random relic]

based taLos hate

[sterile fiber]

idk could've been Arthur

[random relic]

arthur better than talos

[sterile fiber]

you can actually run around with talos

Arthur takes 5 years to special

[random relic]

thats fine

i hate arthur but ive now decided its infinitely better than talos

i swear its gimmick makes the weapon worse

[tight basin]

The gimmick doesn't even pull half the time lmao

[soft kiln]

is there a list somewhere of the unpommables?

[tight basin]

not that i know of

[plain river]

I think it’s blood frenzy and the athena dd related ones

And then a few others

Like dionysus “hangover makes enemies slower” boon

Um

Engulfing vortex and dire misfortune

[soft kiln]

how about after party and positive outlook?

[valid dagger]

For reference purposes; Unpommable Boons:

Artemis:
None

Ares:
-Dire Misfortune
-Engulfing Vortex
-Blood Frenzy

Athena:
-Last Stand
-Deathless Stand
-Sure Footing

Aphrodite:
-Life Affirmation
-Blown Kiss
-Broken Resolve

Demeter:
-Rare Crop
-Ravenous Will
-Nourished Soul
-Arctic Blast
-Killing Freeze

Dionysus:
-Premium Vintage
-Strong Drink
-After Party

Poseidon:
-Sunken Treasure
-Ocean's Bounty

Zeus:
None
Compiled by Bright01

[plain river]

Why aren’t chaos, hermes and bouldy on this list

[soft kiln]

sweet thanks

this would be a very useful pin imo

[twin cloak]

Arthur doesn't make me smash my head into my table after i press the special 0.00000001 pixels too far away for it to pull

and has interesting design

[dreamy prism]

the fact that arctic blast can't be pommed is so stupid

[random relic]

agreed

it might be good if you could pom it

[twin cloak]

Oceans bounty grindset because it's unpommable

[random relic]

dem is my favorite 4th god to get on eris

[soft kiln]

does world splitter hcange your dash strike?

[tight basin]

dont think so

[soft kiln]

does it make regular attacking any better with nemesis and artemis?

or will it still be too bad

[dreamy prism]

still bad

[tight basin]

world splitter just kinda bad lol

[twin cloak]

Average sword hammer

[balmy echo]

why is aspect of rama merciful end combo so overpowered

[valid dagger]

It's not

It doesn't even make good use of it because the Doom goes off before you can let out a powershot

[balmy echo]

it is :)

on special

het a g

get a hammer +4 specail arrows

hermes boon for faster specail

and the some random boons like +14 damage per doom hit

then just hold special

[valid dagger]

Well I think our definitions of overpowered are very different but playing Rama just normally will do more damage than that

[balmy echo]

:)

well when you deal 1300 damage per hit

[valid dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523766637757726722/916251717383909416/unknown.png

:)

[lucid oar]

[turbid needle]

woah! i wanna see what build did you use for this

[lucid oar]

Twin shot, Artemis attack and dash, likely perfect or point blank shot, and likely chaos attack/dash strike buffs

[dreamy prism]

special only rama is unarguably

[valid dagger]

garbage

[dreamy prism]

tbh what aspects other than arthur would be worse than rama for ME

I honestly think rama might be bottom 2

[valid dagger]

Rama with ME is gud if you just ignore ME

Just a big Athena attack and 2 perfect hammers

[dreamy prism]

true ares special op

[valid dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/1003614146413211709/chrome_ZdgZPf2Gou.jpg I think this is what I had, not a perfect build by any means, just a really good Chaos

[lucid oar]

Zag bow

[dreamy prism]

no way

flurry zbow has to be decent at ME

[lucid oar]

Dash striking is so jank

[valid dagger]

All bows pretty much

[dreamy prism]

also bruh double purple chaos

[lucid oar]

MEra is the best of the bows

[dreamy prism]

cheat engine

[lucid oar]

You should see zagspear wr then

[valid dagger]

Or Hera

[lucid oar]

Or Rama unmodded

[dreamy prism]

all cheat engine? damn that sucks

[valid dagger]

Some of my Hera builds have been incredible tbh

[turbid needle]

oh my god dash strike until 212%, alright gotta try this one next time i use coronacht

[valid dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/1003615010037182494/Discord_T2RBvTJ3uq.png this one

[dreamy prism]

is that 7 cast moment

[lucid oar]

I only see 5

[dreamy prism]

incl well

[lucid oar]

But yeah that’s a good build ™️

[dreamy prism]

eh decent build

[valid dagger]

Yea those are shots

[lucid oar]

Those are purple shots

[dreamy prism]

so-so

[lucid oar]

Not grasps

[dreamy prism]

oh gotcha

[valid dagger]

Like ~150% cast damage

from them

[lucid oar]

And the braid

And the epic qr

[dreamy prism]

purple shots damn

[lucid oar]

And the epic pommed snow burst

And the level 9 cast

[dreamy prism]

cast abuser dream

[lucid oar]

gud build

[valid dagger]

You should see my 32 heat wr

🗿

[dreamy prism]

too bad no yellow hermes

wait is it yellow or orange

[valid dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/903215893998346251/963873678498623548/unknown.png

Look at this

3 shots and 2 braids

[dreamy prism]

damn that's cracked

[valid dagger]

With 5 stones

[dreamy prism]

mistral dash hard carry?

[valid dagger]

I might hunt that wr again at some point

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/854697271311859732.webp?size=128&quality=lossless

[dreamy prism]

that's once in a lifetime chaos though

[valid dagger]

I don't really care about that part

[lucid oar]

Youch

That could have p2 megged right

[valid dagger]

The rooms were awful

[valid dagger]

Definitely

I didnt because nerves

Also this is a while ago

I legit couldnt load that many casts

That fast

[lucid oar]

Wtf your overall pb at that time was only 3s quicker

Lol

[dreamy prism]

hm is MM bad 32 speed heat

[valid dagger]

Yea

[valid dagger]

For BEo yes

[dreamy prism]

I assume that pact is standard

[valid dagger]

MM is styx pain

[dreamy prism]

oh true

[valid dagger]

Because 2 minibosses must spawn

[lucid oar]

I want to try get more sub 6s

[dreamy prism]

can't instameg

[valid dagger]

Do I whip out the clip

my 40 heat 2nd place

[dreamy prism]

where mid 50 hesty

[valid dagger]

https://youtu.be/Qgqkr4h9frk

[dreamy prism]

that was a while ago wasn't it

[lucid oar]

I did 54 ages ago

Need to go em4 for 55 tho :/

[dreamy prism]

rip

just RI3

[lucid oar]

🗿

Well I’ll maybe give it a try

[valid dagger]

RI3 quick way to skip 55 and go 56 right away

[lucid oar]

Hazard gud

And with 55 pact I barely need to fight anything in ely

Or do I go ap1

[valid dagger]

Just do AP2

[lucid oar]

Straight to 58 🗿

[dreamy prism]

hm how high can zshield easily push

[lucid oar]

62

[valid dagger]

Like 57 probably

[dreamy prism]

I thought my limit was 54 on hesty but zshield seems more promising

[valid dagger]

Then you have to learn EM4

And DC sucks

[lucid oar]

I did one run at 55 then died to dad

It was right at the end of aotw

[valid dagger]

You still have to be really good at Zag shield to do 57 but yknow

[dreamy prism]

what's 57

EM3 RI3 then what

[lucid oar]

DC1 rest maxed?

Hmm

[dreamy prism]

I'll try 54 first, seems pretty chill

[valid dagger]

Okay then 56

57 you need either DC2 or CP2 both trash

timeout simulator

[dreamy prism]

lol

[lucid oar]

No em4 tho so not too bad

[dreamy prism]

on the topic of zshield is pulverizing good or downgrade

[lucid oar]

I think it’s good

[dreamy prism]

I thought about it and it seemed insane for bosses

[valid dagger]

I think Angel thinks it's alright, it slows your Charged shot startup by a bit iirc

[dreamy prism]

oh that sucks

[lucid oar]

sudden rush is the optimal second hammer iirc

[dreamy prism]

hm really

[valid dagger]

Yea Sudden is insane for dps uptime

[lucid oar]

yeah its basically heroic swift strik

[dreamy prism]

does it speed up damage cycle?

[lucid oar]

yes

[dreamy prism]

wtf why

it should only affect rate of becoming long cshot

[lucid oar]

also had this pretty clean furies last night

https://imgur.com/a/jqxdzME

p1 was pretty bad but p4 especially was nice

[dreamy prism]

nice

still slower than triple lucy though so we know what the superior aspect is

[lucid oar]

luci in aspho 🗿

i had an 8s ch17 this run

[dreamy prism]

cracked

[dreamy prism]

pos attack to push stuff into lava

[lucid oar]

oh tru

[valid dagger]

Beowulf is the only real aspect for Elysium

The others dont exist

[dreamy prism]

highkey true

idk why but beo ely is so satisfying

enemies have just enough hp I guess

[valid dagger]

Or you have just enough damage

[balmy echo]

beowuld good?

any good builds

[lucid oar]

core of it is to get a good cast boon (poseidon and aphrodite are good) and pom the hell out of it

then try and get mirage shot because its bugged to be 2x damage instead of 1.3x

after that you can aim for extra stones and cast damage from chaos and charon wells, as well as snow burst from demeter

[lucid oar]

update: got railed by dad

[random relic]

wait.... THATS WHY?

i had no idea why it spawned 2 minibosses

that

makes so much sense

[valid dagger]

Indeed

No matter how fast you kill the first

[zealous sierra]

Uhm is it weird that I am trying not to get any upgrades or different weapons but actually trying to like develop some skill first so that when I get the upgrades it will make the game a bit easier for me? Or am I approaching this in the reverse direction?

[proper furnace]

Uogrades you mean like the mirror/work orders stuff?

[zealous sierra]

mirror and keepsakes

I am getting the renovations done so can't really count that

also not changing any weapons just the base greatsword

[proper furnace]

I dont think there is a reason, as you can get the same skills like dodging/learn patterns with other weapons

Also using only 1 dash is rare

2 dashes doubles your iframes basically

Revives can be a safety net or used on purpose for things like chaos gates

[zealous sierra]

I decided to go with single dash because when I get the double dashes and resurrections It's more like I am in a frenzy just dashing attacking without actually paying any attention to anything

[proper furnace]

Well you cant practice how to not do that if you are going single dash

[zealous sierra]

so I mean is it worth putting time into this kind of uhm training I guess?

Like in my other saves getting to the top has been mostly 80% luck and 20% skill

so I wish to change that a little bit if possible

[proper furnace]

Personally not really unless i wanna go for a fresh file win

[zealous sierra]

I did make a fresh file

[proper furnace]

What i mean with that is like 1st run win

But i dont enjoy 1 dash sword enough for that

[zealous sierra]

bouldy

[proper furnace]

Earliest i got was 3rd run win

[zealous sierra]

oh

so not much point in actually training like this?

[proper furnace]

Like i've said i dont find a point personally in that

No mirror vs mirror is huge

And reason why routine inspection is annoying

[zealous sierra]

oh I see

thanks a lot

[proper furnace]

Unlocking weapons is fine too cuz is needed to be able to use titan blood

[zealous sierra]

got it

[proper furnace]

And keepsakes too, god keeosakes help to dimish a lot of rng in regards to your builds

Or increase your safety a lot

[iron barn]

you should be getting better with experience

[chilly loom]

whats best, rama or chiron bow?

[plain river]

Hmm

[tight basin]

rama

[plain river]

Mayhaps rama

[tight basin]

chiron has excellent single target damage but that falls off at higher heats

[proper furnace]

Rama can even go fast

[tight basin]

i will say that rama is a pain if you dont get twin shot tho because the perfect shots take a while to charge without it

although twin shot isn't necessary it just makes playing a lot easier

[proper furnace]

Twin doesnt affect the charge

Why is that so common

[tight basin]

idk sure feels that way lmao

[plain river]

Is typhoons fury something notably good? Or should I just purge it

[strange lark]

It takes the same amount of time to charge it's just a shorter range

[proper furnace]

I just treat it as budget beaver

[strange lark]

Yeah it's fine

If it's epic I'll probably purge it for the money

[plain river]

My thoughts too

Guess it’ll be going bye-bye

[chilly loom]

any good rama build then?

[plain river]

Less pommables means more poms on tidal dash

[chilly loom]

Or just some general good status effects?

[plain river]

Aphro attack or arte attack probably

Haven’t used this yet but aphro attack and dio special on rama doesn’t sound half bad

[strange lark]

A beefy % attack, Aphro is very good (ideally not common), or you can go for Artemis because crits, any high rarity % attack can do except Poseidon (avoid that one), for the Special you want flat damage, it's not hard to come by, usually not worth forcing tho, Ares Dio Zeus are the main ones, you can go for Demeter and try to get Killing freeze, it can work pretty well, for the Dash there arent many options because most of them are either anti-synergy or just dont do anything, Artemis however is probably the best in slot dash, because Rama relies on dash strikes and getting dash strike damage is just good, Athena is a good one too because deflecting is nice, another important thing for Rama is hammers, ideally you want Triple Shot or Twin Shot for your first hammer, if not offered you can go for Perfect or Point Blank, and for the second hammer you usually want Perfect or Point Blank (assuming Triple or Twin first) but the order can be the other way here, if you get Perfect Shot as first hammer then it's fine too, hammers to avoid are Sniper shot (blocks Twins shot) and also doesnt do anything, and Repulse shot, Explosive is a bit of an odd one, it's nice in some scenarios but hard to play, Chain shot is okay, wont do much in bosses. Rama is difficult and needs practice but it's really good when it comes to heat especially, it's a good idea to watch vods of people who are good at it and try to implement their movement and decision making in your runs

[plain river]

Wait I forgot to change my keepsake

[strange lark]

Reset

[plain river]

It’s going pretty well aside from that

yeah ok I’m gonna give up

Forgotten keepsake and bad hermes and no rerolls

How important is rarity on splash dash?

[strange lark]

Not that important

[tight basin]

are you doing a dash only run

[plain river]

I’m planning on doing a lot of shackle runs

[tight basin]

oh right ofc

so kind of dash only

[plain river]

22 more to be precise

[strange lark]

Then it doesn't matter

[tight basin]

yeah probably doesn't considering all your poms is probably gonna go to dash anyways lmao

[plain river]

already have zag and hestia down, rest of the aspect left to go

Chamber 3 level 4 splash dash

[tight basin]

as one does

[plain river]

Rare razor shoals chamber 4

[proper furnace]

Erebus moment?

[plain river]

Yeah

[dreamy prism]

hot

[plain river]

Noooo

Lost my 2nd tart erebus

Got dedge immediately after though so it isn’t all bad

[chilly loom]

Why is explosive odd? I've used it with hera and triple shot, and it seemed very good.

[proper furnace]

This is for rama

[strange lark]

Rama slow

Makes it even slower

[chilly loom]

yeah ik, but it works on hera

[strange lark]

Ok

[plain river]

And?

[chilly loom]

but cant you just go up to the enemy and just press it?

[strange lark]

That sucks

[chilly loom]

instead of trying perfect shot

[plain river]

rama is different from hera

[dreamy prism]

I lowkey like explosive on rama lmao

[proper furnace]

You will get hit

[strange lark]

Less damage than you normally do

[dreamy prism]

you don't need to power shot anymore

[valid dagger]

The more you charge it the more damage it does

So if you charge it for 0.1s your damage is gonna suck

[strange lark]

Also this

[chilly loom]

Oh really?

[valid dagger]

And you're realistically not gonna charge it much

[chilly loom]

When I've tried it on skelly it does a certain amount of damage no matter what, and then does more if you perfect shot. ig im just wrong

[plain river]

Peer pressure is glitched right?

[strange lark]

Yeah

Don't take it

[proper furnace]

Is still no good anyways

[plain river]

Hmm

Purple afterparty or reroll 🤔

[strange lark]

After-party and then sell it

[dreamy prism]

after party kinda sucks

[proper furnace]

After party is unpommable no?

[dreamy prism]

yeah

[plain river]

Yeah

[dreamy prism]

yeah

[strange lark]

Yeah

[proper furnace]

Aight so is pommable, ty

[strange lark]

👍

[plain river]

Yeah if you have 20 poms in it you’ll get 101% of your hp back after a room

/s

[dreamy prism]

natural dio makes me extremely sad at high heat tbh

he has so much junk like after party and common damage resistance thing

and trippy shot for downgrading you

[strange lark]

sell boon dude

natural dio boons actually a blessing

[proper furnace]

Free sell boons kinda pog

[dreamy prism]

true

at least it's better than nourished soul

[plain river]

I have the wierdest build rn and it’s working too well

[random relic]

yeah

[random relic]

agreeed

only good things are premium vintage and strong drink

[proper furnace]

[strange lark]

yeah