You better get ready
#h1-discussion
pure karma
rich gulch
You know a lady has no sense if she isn't wearing any clothing.
pure karma
I'd go for the dash
analog dew
reef zodiac
reef zodiac
You thought about that choice for a full 30 minutes?
umbral parrot
sword seems fun
its quite fun actually
even though it doesnt come close to my beloved varatha
i get surprised by how much damage it does
like the bow
there is certainly a difference in some things between the bow, rail and shield when compared to spear
runic ice
You thought about that choice for a full 30 minutes?
Nah lol
tawdry fossil
sword seems fun
sword always feels fast and fluid
it also just feels very risky whenever i play it
although that might be because i play mostly nemesis sword
i end up taking a lot of damage against hades during those specials
tawdry fossil
Sword feels incredibly rigid for me
its hard to describe
the specials are definitely slow yeah
but aside from that, nemesis atleast feels fluid
special, 2 dash strikes, rinse and repeat
reef zodiac
I mean the entire gameplay with sword is just special -> dash strike -> dash strike
tawdry fossil
yeah exactly lol
tawdry fossil
well its different for everyone ig
sword is far from my favourite weapon
its just the middle of the road option
when im tired of fists or ive played rail too much
reef zodiac
There’s a horde of enemies? Better special -> dash strike -> dash strike. Sneak miniboss? Better special -> dash strike -> dash strike. FO2 Hades? Time to special -> dash strike -> dash strike.
Whole lot of fluid gameplay there
tawdry fossil
Whole lot of fluid gameplay there <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
yeah very fluid
maybe fluid was the wrong word for it
signal aspen
There’s a horde of enemies? Better special -> dash strike -> dash strike. Sneak ...
special -> dash strike -> dash strike -> take a 40 damage spin
tawdry fossil
special -> dash strike -> dash strike -> take a 40 damage spin
oh yeah
happens everytime against hades
devout terrace
special -> dash strike -> dash strike -> take a 40 damage spin
Why must you hurt me in this way
pure karma
Struggling to understand how can the same people make Hestia and Zag spear
reef zodiac
Lmao
tough pelican
Whoever said Lucifer aspect is amazing in here was right
Goddamn this stuff is amazing
pure karma
Very fun to play, but I find it kinda lacking
reef zodiac
Lucifer goes to show how good rail is
Because it’s the 3rd best rail aspect but still probably a top 10 aspect
pure karma
I am gonna assume your ranking for rails is Hestia > Eris > Lucifer > Zagreus?
reef zodiac
Zag is definitely last, although it’s still really good with the right hammers
Eris and Hestia are both amazing so it’s hard to say which is better
pure karma
Yeah I agree
reef zodiac
They’re both in my top 5 in the game
pure karma
Very different playstyles
Although, imo at least Eris needs some special hammers to work at its max potential
then again HEstia really likes rico or pierce
high island
Hestia also wants Cluster Rockets.
pure karma
I barely use special with Hestia
high island
Well, you said max potential.
runic ice
Third level boss unfair 
pure karma
I mean sure, but I don;t need it. At least in low heat
high island
2v1 is pretty cheap, yeah. The 2 don't have a chance.
runic ice
high island
If you're new, I'd suggest sticking to #h1-for-new-players since that channel doesn't have spoilers.
pure karma
BTW, Hestia with piercing makes Theseus cry.
reef zodiac
Yeah Piercing is nice for Theseus
pure karma
I don't think there is anything "unfair" in the game
high island
Well, it does have spoilers every once in awhile and then we tell people to spoiler-tag and they'll be like "oh yeah" and then the next day somebody else comes along and does the same thing.
runic ice
If you're new, I'd suggest sticking to <#725021347968712724> since that channel ...
Ah okay thanks
high island
I don't think there is anything "unfair" in the game
Oh, there is.
But that's at high heat.
pure karma
WELL
High heat is like, "I am tired of the game and I want a challenge"
I mean design-wise
Like, there aren't any enemies or bosses that are inherently unfair imo
In Blinding of Isaac for example, Delirium boss is just bad
high island
I would think you've been around for long enough to know not to evade the swear filter.
reef zodiac
Like, there aren't any enemies or bosses that are inherently unfair imo
Brightswords have a frame 4 attack
Literally unreactable
pure karma
I would think you've been around for long enough to know not to evade the swear ...
I actually wasnt sure if that word is in the filter
high island
EM4 can be very unfair.
reef zodiac
If you don’t know, you can search the server to see if it’s been said before
Yeah EM4 is very poorly balanced
Bad phase 1 summons can completely ruin many aspects
And his off-screen spear throw for literally 50 base damage at HL0 is absurd
pure karma
But that again falls in the high heat challenge
reef zodiac
It forces you to fight him in a corner
high island
Some projectiles especially in Elysium or Hades's spear throw can just kill you from off-screen with no time to react.
reef zodiac
But that again falls in the high heat challenge
Challenge ≠ unfair
I want to be forced to play well. I do not want to be killed purely by bad luck
pure karma
But it's supposed to be that way. TO force you to do it only if you just care about raising your imaginary high score numbers
high island
Infernal Gates from Elysium are also poorly balanced imo.
reef zodiac
But it's supposed to be that way. TO force you to do it only if you just care ab...
How is it supposed to be that way???
high island
Like, no-hitting superelite Soul Catchers? Really?
reef zodiac
Lol yeah that’s absurd
pure karma
Infernal Gates from Elysium are also poorly balanced imo.
Cant remember that enemy
oh eait
gates
reef zodiac
Kat I run high heat because I want a challenge not because I want to die to bad RNG
high island
Erebus, yeah.
wind violet
reef zodiac
You’re saying “you run heat, so you basically are asking to make things unfair” which is a very weird take
40 heat is completely fair since you can just avoid the unfair pacts
pure karma
You’re saying “you run heat, so you basically are asking to make things unfair” ...
You are forcing insane handicaps because you want to have a bigger number on your victory screens
reef zodiac
No
I’m doing it because I want a challenge
I enjoy a challenge
It’s not about boasting a number
pure karma
bad rng is part of the challenge, this is a roguelike
pure karma
ok
signal aspen
It’s not about boasting a number
This is the exact reason why I play high heat
crude surge
Challenge ≠ unfair
^
crude surge
This is the exact reason why I play high heat
Gotta boast that 62
strong ridge
0-32, 32-50, and 50-max are very different experiences
high island
I mean you said there were no enemies or bosses that are unfair, then when we pointed things out, you dismiss it as "roguelike" I dunno.
reef zodiac
Exactly
high island
It's fair at the Heats most players play at, but as you go up in Heat, there's eventually a point where skill can't overcome bad luck.
tawdry fossil
is there some sort of chart I can use when working my way to higher heat for the easiest pacts?
crude surge
If you lose at 32 it’s pretty much always your fault, at 50 there’s just some things that can and will just kill you
reef zodiac
And even in rooms that are technically beatable, the difficulty of those rooms is unreasonably high compared to the rest of the run that it’s hard not to feel cheated
pure karma
Yeah, I dunno what enemies you think are unfair, but we won;t agree as I said. You probably know more than me so this is my perspective. I have played many games and this is not one I feel like I am being treated unfairly. But I have not gone over 40 heat so who knows
reef zodiac
I dunno what enemies you think are unfair
How about brightswords with a frame 4 attack
Frame 2 with FO2 speeder
Is that fair in your opinion?
pure karma
Does it matter what I think? You are going to dismiss it, and piss me off
crude surge
Where’s that image of that one savior room angel had on Arthur
reef zodiac
So a frame 4 attack is fair
pure karma
yes
reef zodiac
Do you think it’s reactable
pure karma
Yes
high island
is there some sort of chart I can use when working my way to higher heat for the...
@violet jasper has something like that that's decent enough.
reef zodiac
Really
pure karma
Yes
reef zodiac
You’re telling me you can react within 4 frames
tawdry fossil
<@!145977230034599937> has something like that that's decent enough.
is there a pin for it anywhere?
pure karma
No, I personally cannot
high island
1. Be kind. This is an international, diverse community whose common ground is an interest in our games. As a member of this community, we expect you to contribute to an environment where everyone feels welcome and included. Be accepting and respectful. Avoid being inflammatory.
pure karma
I also cannot beat Dark Souls 3 hitless at ng+7 with a steering wheel
reef zodiac
It is not humanly possible
pure karma
But others can
strong ridge
and so it was neccessary to release the string before saying now
high island
Ain't nobody reacting in 4 frames. Input lag alone is gonna be more than that for a majority of players lol.
violet jasper
reef zodiac
Ain't nobody reacting in 4 frames. Input lag alone is gonna be more than that fo...
Exactly
violet jasper
Hi here's a chart
gray apex
hi
pure karma
It's funny you are bringing up brightswords. I never have problems with them, even up 40 heat which is my highest. So I dunno
violet jasper
Sup mike
reef zodiac
It’s not about skill, it literally cannot be done
high island
is there a pin for it anywhere?
No, and I didn't have it on hand, that's why I pinged him for you.
reef zodiac
It's funny you are bringing up brightswords. I never have problems with them, ev...
Goody for you. Have you tried hitless runs? It’s easy to just disregard them because it only does 20 damage but it is by definition unfair since it is unreactable
violet jasper
Ponged
crude surge
The hard limit for human reaction speed is around 200ms in an empty situation.
tawdry fossil
Hi here's a chart
thanks
pure karma
I have tried hitless runs, but I never reached elysium hitless
strong ridge
cocaine is a h e double hockey sticks of a drug
reef zodiac
The brightsword frame 4 attack is not the only unfair thing in the game but it is one of the most obviously unfair things
pure karma
fine
reef zodiac
Glad that we could reach an agreement
high island
> The hard limit for human reaction speed is around 200ms in an empty situation.
I... would be careful quoting random numbers like that.
crude surge
True
reef zodiac
But frame 4 gives you ~66.8 milliseconds to react which is pretty absurd
crude surge
Also you probably have some input lag
reef zodiac
Definitely
reef zodiac
I also cannot beat Dark Souls 3 hitless at ng+7 with a steering wheel
I can 
crude surge
And looking at more sites nothing says it’s that low
pure karma
Zagreus just said both theseus and the bull is not particularly fair
elysium fight not fair confirmed, I was wrong
desert tundra
I would like to add to this conversation: Just because some attacks are a low amount of frames does not mean it's unfair. Sure it might be fast but there can be plenty of ways to counter fast moves, it is very apparent in genres like traditional fighters but also applicable to various different games that involve fighting
reef zodiac
Bro
Unreactable attack = unfair
In any singleplayer game
Can it be avoided by just staying far away? Yes. Does that make the attack fair? Absolutely not
Fighting games are totally different
I play a good amount of smash but I’m no expert of it. But I can say that fast attacks in that game cannot be compared to those in singleplayer games
desert tundra
...yes it does? because it is counter-able
you are fighting against an AI, you as a player have infinitely more options than a bot just doing a frame 4 move every few seconds, ESPECIALLY in a game like Hades where you have various build paths, weapons, and playstyles to go for
Unless that frame 4 move is being spammed every millisecond and makes them dash across the screen while the move still has an active hitbox... you can play against it
strong ridge
tldr skill issue
desert tundra
Can it be hard? Sure, but it is not as unfair as you made it out to be
reef zodiac
I’m not gonna argue with you, but that is an abysmally bad take
crude surge
Even if brightsword attack is fair there are plenty of other things that aren’t
reef zodiac
Can it be hard? Sure, but it is not as unfair as you made it out to be
An enemy having a move that sometimes automatically hits you when you get too close is absolutely unfair
You are wrong
L + ratio
- I’m leaving now
strong ridge
desert tundra
my beloved
crude surge
raw herald
66ms is unreactable by any human being
reef zodiac
Yeah
gray apex
bouldy can do it
raw herald
There’s a reason a false start happens if you start <0.1s after the gun in sprinting
crude surge
Bouldy is not a human being
reef zodiac
There’s a reason a false start happens if you start <0.1s after the gun in sprin...
Oh interesting, I actually didn’t know about that. Makes complete sense
strong ridge
bouldy is a monument to our sins
raw herald
B b b b b b bouldy
raw herald
Final boss
gray apex
blursed
desert tundra
Bouldy is a tank, they can do anything
high island
There’s a reason a false start happens if you start <0.1s after the gun in sprin...
But that 100 ms is set somewhat arbitrarily. Human reactions can def be faster than that.
Obviously that's extremely rare anyway.
raw herald
It was determined from a study
False starts that are from people reacting too quickly instead of jumping the gun are basically non existent
desert tundra
Btw does anyone know what effective range you have to be for Extending Jab to deal its damage?
high island
I wanna meet some people that have reaction speeds under 100ms
Not quite sub 100ms, but I've seen my sensei whiff-punish in 10 frames in SFV. Game has 3-4f input lag. So that's a 100-117ms response time.
desert tundra
Not quite sub 100ms, but I've seen my sensei whiff-punish in 10 frames in SFV. G...
Sensei? like irl Martial Artist or what we talkin
high island
My sensei in Street Fighter V.
versed wraith
can i just say blaming a AI is stupid espically in a game where they are sapose to be difficult! they are there to stop ya from escaping! The game is disigned to keep ya on ya feet and thikn different stragities
versed wraith
unholy pancakes comment of a ai being unfair
crude surge
Not all difficulty is challenging
short glen
Some games literally let the a.i cheat
versed wraith
it disgned that way get over it and think outside the box
reef zodiac
unholy pancakes comment of a ai being unfair
It’s not the aI, it’s a frame 4 attack. It’s unreactable. Why is this such a contentious point
desert tundra
My sensei in Street Fighter V.
Oh lmao, I see
I havent played an SF game in a while
versed wraith
where is this btw? i am on the 3rd area
reef zodiac
Today I’ve heard:
• 4 frames is not unreactable
• Unreactable is not unfair
• Unfair is not unfair
pure karma
Today I've heard:
L+ratio unironically used in a sentence
versed wraith
Staur hades is a great game just difficult but it fun difficult. makes ya celebrate hey i got further then before
high island
can i just say blaming a AI is stupid
Actually no, that kind of tone is not really appropriate in the server. Rule #1 is to be kind and respectful.
crude surge
Hades has plenty of challenging things
short glen
Which attack?
reef zodiac
I am allowed to criticize aspects of a great game
versed wraith
where is this one pancake?
crude surge
And some things that are not fair
crude surge
Only in postgame
high island
Y'all should drop the subject tbh, it's getting pretty toxic.
versed wraith
like i sayed i am on ly on the 3rd area with the bull man and that can i say douche on here? guy
pure karma
yeah in tha area
devout terrace
Brightswords have a frame 4 attack
reef zodiac
where is this one pancake?
pure karma
the sword exalted
desert tundra
Yea I just stopped talking about it, no need to get into it if it's just gonna be heated lol
I already put in my 2 cents anyways
short glen
I guess I'd understand that more if I didn't just spam dash all the time always
pure karma
Yea I just stopped talking about it, no need to get into it if it's just gonna b...
I thought high heat is why we are here
versed wraith
that the area i am in 🙂
crude surge
Only in postgame
high island
I thought high heat is why we are here <:dusa:522248771409543188>
No, that would be #h1-high-heat-strategies.
high island
Naturally.
pure karma
It's because I don't have a sensei
crude surge
versed wraith
is there a chat where i can ask about beating the bull guy and his buddy? they kind of kicked my butt last time?
pure karma
is there a chat where i can ask about beating the bull guy and his buddy? they k...
Is this low heat? You can ask here I think
crude surge
is there a chat where i can ask about beating the bull guy and his buddy? they k...
#h1-for-new-players is spoiler free and probably the best place
versed wraith
ok thank ya!
pure karma
Dash Strike chaos boons affect bow dash strike?
reef zodiac
?
pure karma
🙂
gray apex
you wont make me flame you 🙂
soon™️
pure karma
🙂
crude surge
pure karma
reef zodiac
pure karma
desert tundra
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/836327140512235573.gif?v=1
gotta give them some of that Aphrodite charm
reef zodiac
Why, so it could do nothing?
sweet pivot
Aphrodite Is creepy I feel like she would spike my nectar
reef zodiac
Yikes
signal aspen
desert tundra
tawdry fossil
aphrodite sounds more like a really kind grandmother if anything
reef zodiac
Mm idk about that
high island
aphrodite sounds more like a really kind grandmother if anything
She'll be happy to hear that, m very sure.
flint breach
I've concluded sub 10 minute igt is impossible cause I'm stumped on how to save time haha
flint breach
Damn can you pass on some skill? My pb is 10:37
high island
Just focus on learning meta builds and practice a lot tbh.
gray apex
high island
That should help, I would think.
And look through Lili's chamber layout guide for the chambers that give you the most trouble and what to do there.
Trouble as in slow chambers.
reef zodiac
I've concluded sub 10 minute igt is impossible cause I'm stumped on how to save ...
You can do it
If you want, you can join the speedrun discord. The link is pinned in #self-promotion
slim geyser
speedrun discord beloved
sweet pivot
Can I date the bolder?
twin thistle
in your dreams
ivory oyster
Something IS stopping me from dating Dusa though
She friendzoned zagreus bro
Good thing I've been playing miitopia recently lol
Dusa and Zag make a great cleric and warrior duo
high island
You could go on a friendship date with Dusa. m sure she'd be up for it.
rose brook
I'm getting my new controller today and I get to play hades after 2 months!! Yay!!
brisk trail
do boiling blood/abyssal blood stack with multiple casts (I assume the answer is no)
crude surge
they do not
brisk trail
so I believe theres 2 guaranteed hermes boons each run? if you have 2 and you sell one will another appear?
brisk trail
ye I knew about that second part, thanks
crude surge
It’s also possible to not see both of the normal ones sometimes
Doesn’t happen too often tho
brisk trail
got another question, how is rush delivery damage calculated
crude surge
Move speed stacks multiplicatively
brisk trail
is it like, if you have 50% bonus move speed and 50% on rush delivery you'll deal +25% damage?
crude surge
Yes
brisk trail
groovy, thanks
slim geyser
is stygian or infernal better on meme beams
slim geyser
thought so
sweet pivot
Is the blade of guan Yu the worst weapon in the game ?
brisk trail
no
reef zodiac
Definitely not
reef zodiac
It’s not amazing but it’s definitely not the worst
sweet pivot
Then what's the worst ?
brisk trail
it's one of the most fun imo
brisk trail
why gilga so bad? never used it
sweet pivot
Zag spear is good I don't know what Gilgamesh is
reef zodiac
Zag spear is good I don't know what Gilgamesh is
Define “good”
sweet pivot
It can hit things pretty good
fast willow
Or zag spear
but atleast zag spear has flurryjab
sweet pivot
And with the attack speed hammer upgrade it's pretty solid
fast willow
though gilga does have gilgadash
reef zodiac
why gilga so bad? never used it
The damage is bad and the attacks, dash strikes, and specials are all so slow and unsafe that they leave you very vulnerable while also doing terrible damage
There’re so bad to the point that my 40 heat Gilgamesh run was basically dash only
sweet pivot
Also aspect of hestia while not bad does feel kinda useless
reef zodiac
Hestia is so good
sweet pivot
For what
reef zodiac
Literally a top 5 aspect
Heat
Speedrunning
Casual runs
Hitless runs
Boonless runs
brisk trail
so everything
reef zodiac
Pretty much
brisk trail
reef zodiac
It’s the #1 best hitless aspect and the best boonless aspect
sweet pivot
But in the time it takes to reload you could have out damaged the empowerd shot ?
reef zodiac
LMAO HOW
How are you doing 15 attacks in the time it takes to reload
Explain me that
sweet pivot
Give me a second I'm going to try it again
reef zodiac
Did you upgrade it to max level?
It’s very easy to get your empowered shot to do around 500 damage per shot
Plus you can special or cast during reloads
sweet pivot
Still feel very similar to me when I've tried it
reef zodiac
You can one-shot snipe every enemy from so far away
fast willow
wait
pseudo kernel
I.. i dont really have words EM4 makes EM3 look like a joke. Seriously wasnt expecting any of all of this
fast willow
Still feel very similar to me when I've tried it
what attack boon are you using
Zeus?
reef zodiac
I.. i dont really have words EM4 makes EM3 look like a joke. Seriously wasnt exp...
Yeah EM4 is brutal
pseudo kernel
How do i even deal with it
reef zodiac
Shield
fast willow
How do i even deal with it
I just play beowulf em4 so that I don't have to deal with it
pseudo kernel
AAA
sweet pivot
I tried using Aphrodite
reef zodiac
Shield good
pseudo kernel
i dont really like Beo
reef zodiac
I tried using Aphrodite
What level is your Hestia aspect
sweet pivot
@reef zodiac 1
pseudo kernel
Yeah i cant even imagine the struggle on level 1
reef zodiac
150 base
pseudo kernel
it was so much easier once i leveled it
reef zodiac
Lvl 1 Hestia kinda sucks
pseudo kernel
like level 1 Guan Yu is terrible
reef zodiac
Well levels are especially important for Hestia
brisk trail
unless you're rly good at not being hit
pseudo kernel
Even then
reef zodiac
Since lvl 5 is 3x as good as lvl 1
reef zodiac
Even then
Well idc the level of my aspect if I’m doing a hitless run
Although Guan Yu does fall massively short of Hestia when it comes to hitless
pseudo kernel
no i was responding to Fanta
reef zodiac
I know
brisk trail
you can beat the game with 25 hp if you never get hit 
brisk trail
do you do it at a high heat or?
whatever heat you're comfortable with
pseudo kernel
you can beat the game with 25 hp if you never get hit <:merushrug:66991710214422...
Exactly
brisk trail
hitless is hitless, tho adding points to EM and FO will make it significantly harder
brisk trail
https://discord.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/9505851449584...
100 streak omg wow
reef zodiac
And you can define hitless for yourself. For me, hitless means no deflect, no block, no invincible calls, no acorn, etc. But if you just want to do no damage, go for that
brisk trail
that's uhhh pretty good
pseudo kernel
And you can define hitless for yourself. For me, hitless means no deflect, no bl...
I see mmm
pseudo kernel
is it easy to do without shield
brisk trail
hitless to me is no damage. So dodge, acorn etc is fair game
reef zodiac
But I enjoyed it more than heat for a bit because pretty much every death was a mistake that I could easily learn from
brisk trail
has anyone ever done arthur hitless
reef zodiac
Arthur no damage?
pseudo kernel
i really would love to do that
reef zodiac
Probably
pseudo kernel
Arthur is too fun to let up
brisk trail
what about EM4 FO2 arthur no damage 
pseudo kernel
reef zodiac
Hestia is by far the easiest option for hitless
pseudo kernel
Right
brisk trail
Arthur is too fun to let up
arthur is very fun yes
pseudo kernel
well i guess ill have a look
whoops i knew that was a risk. as i was saying i dunno if i would be that good bc i get a bit over confident and go for extra hits
reef zodiac
whoops i knew that was a risk. as i was saying i dunno if i would be that good b...
Well you can’t exactly afford to do that in a hitless run
desert tundra
pseudo kernel
Well you can’t exactly afford to do that in a hitless run <:bouldy:5233291169346...
yeah
reef zodiac
I will say though, hitless is fun. I encourage people try it out
just watch out for some of the jank like frame 4 brightsword attacks, nearly instant (don’t know the frame data) giant rat attacks, and tiny rat Styx rooms
And by watch out for, I mean have a plan for
pseudo kernel
tiny rats awful
reef zodiac
Styx in general is very hard
On my hitless run, I avoided tiny rat rooms for the most part
pseudo kernel
bright swords 4 frames? I how is that a thing
brisk trail
I like your status pancake 
pseudo kernel
What HOW. How is one supposed to even react to that, mmm that doesnt sound fun
reef zodiac
They just have an unreactable attack
There’s nothing you can do about it except stay out of range
reef zodiac
We were talking about this earlier today actually
Yeah it sucks
With Hestia it was manageable because I just stayed a full screen away but with melee aspects is especially bs
pseudo kernel
mm
so in theory it would be easier with arthur
but i guess i would have to give it a try to see
reef zodiac
Well aura still doesn’t make it reactable
pseudo kernel
oh goodness
reef zodiac
Frame 4 is impossibly fast
pseudo kernel
well yeah thats just not fair
reef zodiac
Nope
Iirc giant rats have a similarly fast attack but I don’t know the frame data on it
Tidal Dash or Flood Shot with Breaking Wave are very helpful for Styx
That’s what got me through Styx on my hitless run
pseudo kernel
Tidal wave must be really help full
obviously Divine Dash would be better but no reflects for you
reef zodiac
Yeah
All this talk of hitless is making me want to get back into hitless
I’m just not sure where to go next. I was trying other aspects but was distressed by how much worse all of them were than Hestia
I know Guan Yu and Rama are popular options but both felt way harder to me
Achilles might be interested with Crystal Beam, but idk
Might be worth a try
Although it needs chaos but I can’t take chaos without chaos keepsake but I need my keepsakes to force Dem in Tart and Arty in Aspho
Hmm
pseudo kernel
mmmm you could do Chiron, could be fun
reef zodiac
Nah Chiron has the same problems as Guan Yu and Rama but arguably worse
Being locked in place
Very unsafe
pseudo kernel
Right
mmm
my last run i accidentally got merciful end on Guan Yu and i had divine dash it was very fun to use i must say but i dont want to ever do it again bc it took so much of my brain power
reef zodiac
I think that’s what they use for GY speedruns
pseudo kernel
i thought as much
it just destroyed sticks
why auto correct
Styx**
its a word it exists pls never correct again
brisk trail
is just me or is zeus special on zeus shield rly good
gray apex
It is very good indeed
Usually the go-to for Zeus shield if you’re not going for Merciful End
reef zodiac
is just me or is zeus special on zeus shield rly good
It’s amazing
It has the best raw damage
And also has jolted and spitting to scale even further
brisk trail
yeah I tried it out, only had lvl 1 zeus shield but it was wrecking
twin thistle
yeah zeus boons dont care about base damage
brisk trail
reef zodiac
Oh yeah especially if your Zeus shield is low level
brisk trail
I actually meant to use my lvl 5 zag shield but I forgot to switch to it and the run went rly well anyway, died at hades but w/e, I'll be using that combo again in the future for sure
lyric hatch
In Italian, saying that a woman is a "Megera" (Megaera), means that she is an unlikeable woman
umbral parrot
brisk trail
leaden birch
I don't like
The aspect of Gilgamesh
The only thing I do like about it is the dashes
reef zodiac
Yep
brisk trail
omg
I got purple zeus attack on fists and splitting bolt in tartarus
meg got melted
leaden birch
I got purple zeus attack on fists and splitting bolt in tartarus
God damn
Are you using the
Mirror upgrade for a higher chance of legendary/duo boons
brisk trail
nope
leaden birch
huh
brisk trail
I lucked out so hard
brisk trail
I think it was an upgraded boon
leaden birch
Lemme check
Legendary Boons can only be obtained with the correct prerequisite boons and,
and,
brisk trail
leaden birch
The chances for Legendary Boons can be increased with specific gods' Keepsakes, Eurydice's Refreshing Nectar, Well of Charon item Yarn of Ariadne, and the Mirror of Night talent God's Legacy.
leaden birch
https://imgur.com/VhdkKvm
Yeye
Sounds OP considering you got Zeus ' strike
Oh
To verify for the Zeus boon you got
Requires 1 of the following:
Storm Lightning, Double Strike or High Voltage
slim geyser
In Italian, saying that a woman is a "Megera" (Megaera), means that she is an un...
well she is the embodiment of jealousy(?) in greek mythology so
reef zodiac
https://imgur.com/VhdkKvm
And jolted? Wtf you got a full build in Tart
brisk trail
And jolted? Wtf you got a full build in Tart
I had to sell jolted 
it's ok, build still rocks
brisk trail
I didn't wanna reroll into good stuff
reef zodiac
Jolted is literally almost as good as splitting
Plus all you’re gonna use those rolls for is to get another jolted anyway
brisk trail
it rolls to stuff it hasn't shown?
reef zodiac
It has to at least roll into one boon it hasn’t shown
brisk trail
I see, this is good info for next time
reef zodiac
Literally I would sell anything in that build except splitting and the attack before jolted in a heartbeat
Actually
I’d sell everything in that build except splitting and the attack over jolted
brisk trail
well I'll see if I can get jolted again but if not oh well, learn from my mistakes
reef zodiac
Jolted is legitimately one of the best boons in the entire game
brisk trail
my mistake
reef zodiac
I’d rather have Zeus attack + jolted than Zeus attack + Aphrodite special + tidal dash + any cast + any call
And the earlier you get it the better because it has fantastic pom scaling
reef zodiac
Nice
brisk trail
I found zeus again all the way up in styx
anyway yeah I'm not that knowledgeable on whats good, whats bad, what to sell, what to go for
I see pretty colours I click on them
reef zodiac
Atleast you can get Jolted again easily
True, half priority is good
brisk trail
thanks
mint coral
what does half priority mean
Some boons have more priority than others on being offered, curses status have like 50% over others iirc?
Probably easier to link Nyaanyaa message of how that works lol
mint coral
.
brisk trail
oh wait thats a different message, thanks I haven't seen it yet
is DD/SD the only way to regain health with LC4?
not counting health ups
mint coral
Life stealing things still work
brisk trail
ah right yeah
mint coral
Cursed slash/gy spin/etc
mint coral
Draining cutter it exists
Was nice for my first runs that reached styx by killing the small rats lol
fast willow
I’d rather have Zeus attack + jolted than Zeus attack + Aphrodite special + tida...
I wouldn't
splash dash gives faster tarts than jolted
gray apex
I wouldn't
Pancake’s opinions are too optimal you wouldnt know
reef zodiac
No it’s not optimal for speed
I mean for heat
In terms of speed you’re definitely right
flint breach
Bro did I actually die to final fight on a sub 10 potential run
gray apex
If I were to guess yea
flint breach
I'm annoyed at myself now, final phase 9:30 on the clock
reef zodiac
What aspect do you run?
flint breach
Demeter
raw herald
Demeter is pretty unsafe tbf
obsidian merlin
Poseidon dash with Eris Rail seems popular, but when I dash into my special it pushes them out so either I get buffer OR they take damage but not both. Seems to require cluster bomb or triple shot hammer upgrades to get more than 1 special zone. Am I doing it wrong?
raw herald
Special doesn’t do much damage without cluster or rocket
flint breach
Demeter is pretty unsafe tbf
I mean normally I'm fine playing aggressive in the fight, idk what was different, perhaps because I didn't have extra dashes
raw herald
So it’s not a big deal
reef zodiac
Demeter does love to get hit
reef zodiac
Poseidon dash with Eris Rail seems popular, but when I dash into my special it p...
Boonless hammerless special with Eris boost does 88 damage.
Common lvl 2 tidal dash does 98 damage.
So I wouldn’t really worry too much about pushing enemies out of it
flint breach
Yoo I'm in a very good run, currently in Temple with 6:30 on the clock
raw herald
Pray for the sack 🙏
reef zodiac
Oh that’s too easy. Do every Styx chamber and see if you still sub10 for the extra challenge
flint breach
I DIED TO THE LAST FIGHT AGAIN ATE YOU SERIOUS
reef zodiac
Demeter does *love* to get hit
flint breach
I was playing so dumb was dashing into his fire beams
brisk trail
play smarter not harder
flint breach
It was panic more or less
It would've been sub 9 minutes tbh, final part of final phase at 8:30
raw herald
What build
flint breach
Me
raw herald
ME or Zeus
flint breach
Ye it was roughly that but died
runic ice
Finally beat 3rd level
fast willow
Still shouldn’t be more than like 40s max though, right?
40 sec max is a beo moment
i have no experience with fists but im sure that its not as fast as beo
reef zodiac
Fair
raw herald
Fists is like 40s min
brisk trail
Whoah thats pretty fast, nice work
reef zodiac
When the slowest weapon is also one of the most popular for beginners
fast willow
When the slowest weapon is also one of the most popular for beginners <:bouldy:5...
is it actually?
signal aspen
Yeah
fast willow
i personally never liked fists
flint breach
I never did like fists until me build
brisk trail
Arthur my beloved
reef zodiac
Slowest and also worst for heat
signal aspen
it beat 60 heat
fast willow
i disliked fists even more when i found out about ME because you can just play nem and its better
reef zodiac
~~it beat 60 heat~~
Don’t think so
raw herald
It beat 60 heat with level 25 pressure points and RI2.67
fast willow
It beat 60 heat with level 25 pressure points and RI2.67
2.67
signal aspen
It was
raw herald
Had DF
reef zodiac
So then did it really beat 60 heat
gray apex
It’s the joke
reef zodiac
Oh was that RI2.67 meant?
signal aspen
There was also the room reward manip thing
flint breach
Slowest and also worst for heat
Strangely it's my only weapon I've got 32 heat on
signal aspen
You can beat 32 heat with anything
raw herald
Even a wet paper towel
flint breach
You can beat 32 heat with anything
True except I'm bad at game
mint coral
Dw we are all bad here
devout terrace
~~it beat 60 heat~~
bouldy
flint breach
flint breach
This needs to be an emote
devout terrace
mods have no control over emotes
pure karma
Hello friends.
obsidian merlin
This game is super frustrating when you start a run going for X on attack and you take keepsake X and God X doesn't offer it 3 times in a row and you have an empty attack slot in Elysium instead of what you wanted...
reef zodiac
That’s what rerolls are for
obsidian merlin
Yeah, still saving up for a second reroll to get things more consistent.
icy knoll
you'll need three dice to get two rerolls
obsidian merlin
Oof
icy knoll
that threw me off when i first played
yeah first costs one, second costs two, third costs three (per god encounter)
obsidian merlin
So with 2 dice you could alter X once and then later alter X again? But not alter X twice in the same offer?
icy knoll
yes
obsidian merlin
Ok well that's just a lifetime supply of Darkness I need to find somewhere then
reef zodiac
Just stack up some chaos boons for more darkness and you can average 1000+ darkness per run
last veldt
I've had > 1100 for Dad alone, 3k for the whole run.
last veldt
Charged shot OP
mint coral
Cshot 
crude surge
cshot is very poggies
sweet pivot
The laser gun is really fun my favorite boon for it is the tracking arrows boon what are some other fun boons for it
fast willow
The laser gun is really fun my favorite boon for it is the tracking arrows boon ...
zeus attack + static discharge for good boons, poseidon attack for fun boon
leaden birch
Bests casts for Hera?
I know Crush shot is like the best but
If I don't get Aphrodite then what?
pseudo kernel
Crush shot is really good, and i seem to always get it when i take the keepsakes
pure karma
Does Pulverizing Blow make Charged Shot hit twice?
pure karma
If I don't get Aphrodite then what?
I'd say Flood Shot.
pseudo kernel
even then crush shot is still better, the drop off is huge
pure karma
even then crush shot is still better, the drop off is huge
Yes, but if you can;t get it, with Flood Shot you can at least work towards Mirage
reef zodiac
I'd say Flood Shot.
Flood shot is significantly lower damage and is also quite hard to control since if you miss it will go flying across the screen
signal aspen
Flood shot hera just beo
pseudo kernel
yeah Beo is better for flood
sweet pivot
How do I give Thanatos nectar when ever I try to click on him after the contest thing he just gives me a heart and leaves ?
pseudo kernel
sometimes he‘ll be waiting by the admin area
mint coral
Also need to hope that he isnt talking to someone in the house
pseudo kernel
yeah
high island
If I don't get Aphrodite then what?
If you start with her keepsake and she doesn't offer you her Cast even after rerolls, normally you just grab her Attack if you can, then try to find Crush Shot in Tartarus. Phalanx Shot and Flood Shot are alright alternatives, Phalanx being the better of the two.
leaden birch
If you start with her keepsake and she doesn't offer you her Cast even after rer...
Yeye I get the keepsake part but I'm 3 starring all of the other keepsakes first now
Got all of the god ones at 3 now I think
Up to 5-7 others too
I'll get em all to 3 eventually
pseudo kernel
It takes ages and it sorta sucks the fun out of the game sometimes
leaden birch
Wouldn't say it takes too long
Gives me some extra variety to play with too ig
So I don't mind
Got time anyway
high island
If you're confident enough in the Hades fight, you can just use god keepsakes early on like normal to get the build you want, then take the keepsake you want to level in the Temple of Styx and just do tunnels.
pseudo kernel
it feels like it does, for me i dont really like the tedium of it all, but it did make me play differently
high island
Well, you're not missing out too much if you don't do it. There's no content locked behind leveling all of your keepsakes.
fast willow
Does Pulverizing Blow make Charged Shot hit twice?
imagine.
that would be like the clockets of shield
pseudo kernel
What weapon?
umbral parrot
What weapon?
Achilles spear
pseudo kernel
i always have preferred artemis over zeus boons for my spear but i could be way off
reef zodiac
Zeus is good on flurry jab if you get it early enough to basically guarantee jolted. But without jolted, Artemis attack is better
umbral parrot
thanks!
runic ice
Hades boss hard
umbral parrot
im never ever taking triple jab again
reef zodiac
That’s a bit extreme for a mediocre hammer
umbral parrot
i lost dad fight because i picked triple jab over serrated point
do i take fated persuasion or authority?
high island
Persuasion.
high island
Usually Pride, but it depends on the build you're going for.
Either one is fine really.
high island
Strong builds will help you, but weak builds aren't the reason you lose a run when you lose.
high island
You still have a lot to learn in the Hades fight, so that loss can help you identify mistakes you make.
umbral parrot
Okay.. sorry
high island
How do i aid sisyphus? <a:Plead:770650931565035590>
There'll be a work order at the house contractor eventually, but to get that, basically just keep talking to people and do more runs. That's gonna be the answer like 99% of the time for things like that.
high island
Okay.. <:Sad:692533599764873307> sorry
Don't be sad, it's a learning opportunity!
And also you learned that Triple Jab doesn't really do anything for boss fights.
reef zodiac
It does nothing for bosses and a little for normal rooms
high island
Im gonna try again!
Ganbatte!
flint breach
Im gonna try again!
You got this
umbral parrot
Thanks alot for the support guys!! 
||~~Also i picked serrated point this time 
~~||
strong ridge
strong
umbral parrot
anyways, I have failed miserably, again, as you can see
I wasted 2 death defiances on the heroes, though
thats the biggest reason
gray apex
Serrated is quite difficult to play with
umbral parrot
the problem is his 80 damage spins
umbral parrot
Serrated is quite difficult to play with
i got flurry jab at styx temple
but didnt use it because im dum
umbral parrot
it did 80
gray apex
i got flurry jab at styx temple
That doesn't really help since you already have Serrated as first hammer, Serrated makes Flurry Jab worse
signal aspen
getting flurry as a second hammer if you already have serrated is good
but getting serrated after flurry is bad
gray apex
getting flurry as a second hammer if you already have serrated is good
The good part is because anvil
signal aspen
oh yeah i forgot about that
gray apex
Not because it does anything
pure karma
Satyr Sack in last room
signal aspen
nice
pure karma
I really wonder what SG's next game will be.
So far, each is better than the last
But how do you top Hades
signal aspen
you dont
mint coral
Eh i like Pyre quite a lot more than Hades
pure karma
Haven't played Pyre tbf
signal aspen
Eh i like Pyre quite a lot more than Hades
idk man
signal aspen
How did you start playing hades
raw herald
:((
I was looking at Nintendo life reviews
And they gave hades a 10
So I installed it the next day
reef zodiac
Lmao
raw herald
In an alternate reality where hades didn’t get a 10, you wouldn’t have the idk man copypasta
Think about that
reef zodiac
I just heard about people playing it and thought I’d give it a try but I actually had no idea even what kind of game it was
mint coral
Same, i just heared "really good roguelike"
void vigil
i dont even like roguelikes or lites, i just like supergiant
reef zodiac
I haven’t played any other SGG games nor do I like other roguelikes
reef zodiac
Same
In fact, Hades heat might also have been my very first foray into challenge running?
void vigil
im still too intimidated to speedrun hades or push heat even though i have a decent amount of hours in it, and if i tried and put effort in i could probably do it
tawdry fossil
should i be working my way to higher heats before trying speedrunning? I might be overshooting
void vigil
its so time consuming though
raw herald
I did speedruns before trying high heat
reef zodiac
No actually that was BotW no shieka slate, which is incredibly easy but I felt cool because I was skipping something that’s meant to be core to the game lmao
raw herald
But it’s completely up to yoy
mint coral
Upping the heat nice if you dont still max your aspects lvls ig
raw herald
Does terraria expert mode count as a challenge run
mint coral
But yea just pick whatever sounds more fun
tawdry fossil
all my runs these days go into speedrunning/getting through the epilogue
reef zodiac
Do you think it got you more interested in making games harder for yourself?
tawdry fossil
i got to about 11-12 heat a while ago and then just stopped using it
raw herald
Proabbly not
reef zodiac
Then it probably doesn’t count
raw herald
Yeah hades was the first game where I actively try to make it as hard as possible
Since it’s for 30ish mins at a time and not an 8 hour play through
It’s a lot easier to stay committed
From my experience
reef zodiac
Oh I also did Ori2 100% bashless (but never finished the 100%, but the fact that I did 100% strats is important because it means I had to do a whole bunch of stupid skips) as one of my first challenge runs. That may have also been before I tried out heat in Hades
raw herald
I do Bloons challenge runs but that was after hades
reef zodiac
Once I tried Dark Souls SL1 runs I never went back though
If I’m not making the game harder on myself then it’s hard to even do a second playthrough of it
Which is kinda stupid tbh
raw herald
Lmaooo
reef zodiac
But it’s how my brain works
high island
should i be working my way to higher heats before trying speedrunning? I might b...
Whatever you think is fun.
tawdry fossil
good to know thats up to me lol
pseudo kernel
How does one tackle EM4?
strong ridge
be good don’t be bad ezpz
reef zodiac
How does one tackle EM4? <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Shield
strong ridge
you know the first rule of combat?
reef zodiac
Which shield
pseudo kernel
Beo
pseudo kernel
yeah, i know that i should just practice but its just so much to do i just. But i am sure i will get it eventually
high island
you know the first rule of combat?
Yeah, have your underlings fight for you.
umbral parrot
im still too intimidated to speedrun hades or push heat even though i have a dec...
im really passionate about it
i want to speedrun hades at high heat
pure karma
Do you think Nyx can solo all the Olympians and Hades together?
umbral parrot
but yeah its hard, it might seem intimidating sometimes but youll get over it trust me 
desert tundra
Yeah, have your underlings fight for you.
Is that what Sensei taught you
high island
No, that comes natural to me.
desert tundra
Lol I see
umbral parrot
Putting yourself in as low risk as possible
desert tundra
So you're a Hades type person
umbral parrot
its just simple nature
desert tundra
pure karma
Wretches of the underworld, fight for me to defeat my son even though I could solo Titans during the war.
desert tundra
m the high priestess of the Temple of Aphrodite, thank you very much.
Oh... An Aphrodite follower
The scariest god
strong ridge
aphro would crunch dem
raw herald
Zagreus would beat them all
pure karma
What would she do, blow a kiss?
high island
Love conquers everything.
raw herald
She’d get ares to help
pure karma
And what would Ares do?
strong ridge
wat wold dem do make it chilly out ouuuuu
raw herald
Merciful end
pseudo kernel
She would get her loyal followers to rip people limp from limp,.. she is brutal to say the least
pure karma
Google "Absolute Zero"
strong ridge
coat^2
signal aspen
Does terraria expert mode count as a challenge run <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
No do master mode you filthy casual
pure karma
You didn't google it
high island
From Master Achilles's writings in the codex:
Still I fear that Aphrodite's power is the most terrible in all the world.
umbral parrot
Love conquers everything.
strong ridge
Google "Absolute Zero"
i am confident dem does not transcend particles and thus this does not matter
raw herald
No do master mode you filthy casual
I will balloons tower defense you
pure karma
> Still I fear that Aphrodite's power is the most terrible in all the world.
Yes, because he is a weak mortal who can succumb to a woman. Well, not ONLY to a woman.
pseudo kernel
to be honest all the gods are pretty scary
signal aspen
I will balloons tower defense you
I will dead your cells
raw herald
:((
strong ridge
no
raw herald
D:
pseudo kernel
like that much power mixed with ego is just nope not fun
slim geyser
i think im starting to like demeter guys chill is kind of good
umbral parrot
I mean, mentally defeating your enemy can be way more devastating than killing them physically
Thats why he fears aphrodite i think
slim geyser
I mean, mentally defeating your enemy can be way more devastating than killing t...
why not both
umbral parrot
Dont need to
high island
Yes, because he is a weak mortal who can succumb to a woman. Well, not ONLY to a...
And what made Lady Demeter so frosty? Oh right, it was love.
Love has already conquered her.
O~hohohohoho!
strong ridge
1-0
signal aspen
🤮
pure karma
Love?
raw herald
Todays the day I get a sub 4! I can feel it
signal aspen
Get a sub 3
pure karma
I would say it's hate for Hades and Zeus
raw herald
I’ll get a sub 3!
raw herald
Sub 6
strong ridge
is hate not just the sqrt of love
brisk trail
Sub 4 what ?minutes 
raw herald
No, sub 4!
signal aspen
Sub 4 hours
brisk trail
Sub 4 hours
Ah okay I’m still on 6
desert tundra
Sub 4 days
raw herald
Sub 4! Mins is easy ngl