h1-discussion

[pseudo kernel]

i like fighting them now

it makes me feel all speedy

[novel wasp]

it gives your heart a little workout

🫀

[high island]

Flame Wheels can't get Cloner, so there'll be no multiplying Flame Wheels.

Only Tartarus enemies can get that.

[novel wasp]

you sure? just got it the other day

[high island]

You didn't.

100% sure.

[novel wasp]

i played the game like a week ago

again

[gray apex]

Yea Cloners are Tartarus exclusive

[flint breach]

Could you imagine cloned Elysium witches, ew

[novel wasp]

well if it isnt possible anymore

the next worse thing is Tank + Speed up Greatshield

good luck clapping their back with rail because they turn faster than your dash lol

the annoying enemies™️ ah yes

[high island]

Oh with rail. That's easy enough.

[novel wasp]

use Q?

but they block on the front though

even if the aoes are above their head if the middle is in front of them it counts as a block

[pseudo kernel]

short work with Hestia

[novel wasp]

i use hestia exclusively

[high island]

They can't turn around immediately if you bait an attack first.

[novel wasp]

yeah had to bait

and that wastes time a lot unfortunately it seems rail is just one of the slower weapons

[flint breach]

Rail has always felt slow to me, I just thought I wasn't using it correctly

[high island]

Hestia is super speedy.

[novel wasp]

i almost died to my run with rail because of the weapon innate nature when i turn on the 5 mins heat (one of the things i use)

5 mins heat with rail is heart workout

[gray apex]

TD3 is more about general game fundamentals rather than the weapon

[high island]

Yeah.

[novel wasp]

idk, im fine with every other weapon even bows on that heat but damn ig im just suck with rails lol

or i rely on dio c4

[high island]

I'll say that Hestia is not intuitively speedy the way Eris is, for example. You'll need some practice and know to use your Special when reloading.

[novel wasp]

recently tried out eris but im working on getting it to level 5 first

[gray apex]

And if you have a damage dash you'll also need to know how to use that effectively

[high island]

Yeah, that too.

[novel wasp]

damage dash is the only way for rails to compete for speed yeah

i assume you meant dash strikes

delta with it is paintrain

[proud glacier]

am I the only one that dislikes Athena?

[novel wasp]

yes you are

[proud glacier]

its just less fun compared to the other gods lol

[novel wasp]

why did you dislike free win

and just dont roll her if you want to lol

[proud glacier]

ares and poseidon's dash are way much more fun

demeter's cast is just so cool

[novel wasp]

i.. dont know about that one chief

[proud glacier]

idk, Athena feels kind of boring 😂

I'd always take demeter's cast if the opportunity appears 😄

[novel wasp]

ill be real with you if you were interested in dio c4 maybe you are right but demeter cast? really?

[pseudo kernel]

wait we just glossing over the dash stuff,

[novel wasp]

often times dash doesnt really matter much which one you chose imo theres not an outlyingly unfair ones aside from athena dash

[proud glacier]

what's dio c4?

[novel wasp]

they are just there if you want for a duo or leg

its a good filler slot if you will

trippy shot

[pseudo kernel]

athena’s dash can be so helpful in a sticky situation

[high island]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/782268720479207474/Hades_1177.png

[gray apex]

Eris WR has no dash

[novel wasp]

i meant dash strike with it

not dash damage

dash strike fires 3 shot rapidly

nya i think you mistaken me what i just said

its a good way to pump out damage with no downside aside from you had to well aim for it

[gray apex]

Well it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense

It's like saying "using the weapon is the only way to go fast with it"

[novel wasp]

am i just drunk or did no one uses dash strike of rails

it does makes it significantly faster and unlike bow strike dash it has a damage penalty

[reef zodiac]

Why would you use divine dash for speed

[novel wasp]

while rail dash strike just pumps out damage 3 shots immediately

[gray apex]

Yet you only want to dash strike with bows

Bow dash strikes make the attack charge faster

and has better ways to scale which compensates for the small damage penalty

[novel wasp]

yes, and i sometimes still strikes to do first shot then dash strike spams

[gray apex]

it does 10 damage

[novel wasp]

dash strike*

[gray apex]

[novel wasp]

[high island]

It doesn't fire 3 shots rapidly. Rail Dash-Strike is a single shot that's independent of your normal rate of fire, so you'll often get a Dash-Strike followed by an immediate normal Attack.

[reef zodiac]

Divine Dash strike? Never heard of that boons

[novel wasp]

[reef zodiac]

No but actually I have no idea what you are talking about

[novel wasp]

huh, must've spammed the 2 dash and mistaken it as a 3 shot

and i found it exceptionally useful for a strike based rail run to go faster

[gray apex]

It was that "Dash strikes are the only way for rails to compete in terms of speed" if I'm understanding correctly

[novel wasp]

yeah you are right

[reef zodiac]

Ohh

[high island]

Well, dashing is just fundamental to Hades. That's the same for all aspects really.

[reef zodiac]

I mean yeah that’s kinda true?

Dash strikes are incredible on every single aspect

Try playing sword without dash strikes. I’ll just tell you, it’s real bad (like way more than usual)

[novel wasp]

there are some weapons that dash doesnt really do much to improve the dps but i know that nya is gonna disagree with their big phallus 32 heats take anyway

[reef zodiac]

Like what

[novel wasp]

guanyu spin build lul

[reef zodiac]

????

[gray apex]

every weapon wants to dash strike

even that

[reef zodiac]

Why would you do that

[gray apex]

you dash strike to start your spin

[reef zodiac]

That’s a low dps build as well

[novel wasp]

for a bigger spin

[reef zodiac]

You’d do more damage to do dash strikes

Sorry but you’re definitely wrong on this one

Every single aspect wants to dash strike to increase dps and mobility

They are real good

[novel wasp]

iunno, dash strike is cool but it just makes you move (not that is a bad thing but it didnt improve the dps) on GY speenor

it still depends on big spin + fast spin from hammer

[high island]

That's pretty disrespectful ngl.

[reef zodiac]

Why would you do Guan Yu spin build

You do realize that this is not the optimal way to play Guan Yu anyway

So yeah it’s gonna require some hammers

[novel wasp]

because i like stupid stuffs to abuse

[reef zodiac]

And you are gonna want to dash strike to start literally every spin

Normal attacks are really slow and bad

And immobile

[novel wasp]

i start with dash strike spin, and a Q to finish stuff

if i explain like that it does play like every other spears huh

[reef zodiac]

You said that dash strikes aren’t necessary for dps on this specific build and now you’re admitting that you use them

So

Yeah idk what in the world you’re on about

[novel wasp]

to move away* but didnt improve the dps

[reef zodiac]

It does

[novel wasp]

but yeah even i dont

[pseudo kernel]

But you’ll just die if you are immobile with guan yu you’ll just die

[novel wasp]

hence the "move away" part

[pseudo kernel]

But why move away and do no damage when you can move away and deal damage

[reef zodiac]

I think the build that uses dash strikes the very least is maybe CShot Zag shield on bosses? Idk I’m reaching because dash strikes are just so incredibly good on every single weapon and aspect and build

[novel wasp]

but dash strike really isnt the damage player in GY spin

or Zag shield

honestly what does zag shield even do again

i only use chaos exclusively

[reef zodiac]

LMAO

[reef zodiac]

It becomes one of two (I think? May need to fact check this tbh) aspects to ever clear 62 heat

[novel wasp]

increases attack damage

did they changed that?

[reef zodiac]

No

Always been that

[novel wasp]

i dont remember it used to do that hence no one touches it

[reef zodiac]

?????

[novel wasp]

in EA

[pseudo kernel]

what

[reef zodiac]

Yes chaos was broken in EA and now it’s complete garbage

[novel wasp]

all i know is that everyone wants to use Chaos only back in EA

and no one touches the Zag aspect

[reef zodiac]

Yes because chaos was broken in EA and now it’s terrible

[novel wasp]

so i was curious is has they changed it

[reef zodiac]

Just fact checked: yes this is correct

[high island]

Zag Shield is top tier.

[reef zodiac]

Zag shield is very very good

[novel wasp]

really, gotta give it a chance again then ig

[reef zodiac]

It’s kinda hammer reliant

At least for high heat

[novel wasp]

im still obsessed with Chaos Moon Knight move

[high island]

RIP damage reduction Zag Shield.

[reef zodiac]

?

Chaos Moon Knight?

[novel wasp]

IT WAS THE DAMAGE REDUCTION

[gray apex]

So anyway

Do y’all like dash strikes

[novel wasp]

its that random bullcrap go comic image of a Moon Knight

[gray apex]

I think they’re pretty bad

[novel wasp]

yes

[reef zodiac]

Really

You seemed to have a different opinion a few minutes ago

[novel wasp]

i was?

all i said is that its good for rail to compete for speed and it doesnt improve GY spin damage

i have never said its bad, once

[reef zodiac]

Why would it improve the damage of the spin

It still raises the dps

[novel wasp]

here we go again

[reef zodiac]

Nobody ever said it increased the damage of the spin

You said that some weapons don’t use dash strikes for dps (false) and also said something incredibly rude and out of pocket for no reason

[high island]

Speaking of Guan Yu, did you know that Guan Yu speedruns still use the same tactic of Special > Dash-Strike x2 > repeat for DPS from the first Guan Yu speedrun on the leaderboard?

Trying to remember who was it that submitted that run.

[reef zodiac]

Guan Yu dash strikes are really good

[novel wasp]

hey i know what i said and if its rude im sorry for nya but all i said is that i know i will be proven wrong anyway

[reef zodiac]

[novel wasp]

totes not you

[reef zodiac]

What

Oh

You’re kidding nvm

[novel wasp]

[high island]

Oh.

Ohhh.

I remember now.

It was me.

[reef zodiac]

[high island]

Ha, bet you didn't see that coming.

[pseudo kernel]

hehe

[fast willow]

i didnt.

how could you tell

[arctic flax]

when was the last update for this game?

[strong ridge]

there have been a few patches since but the game fully released a little over a year ago

[arctic flax]

ah gotcha

is supergiant onto the next project or is it full steam for some hades dlc? anyone who knows feel free to answer

[mint coral]

Nobody knows

[strong ridge]

i would not count on dlc but i would welcome it

[arctic flax]

ah ok thanks

[arctic flax]

maybe scaling olympus who knows

[strong ridge]

hades battle pass

[arctic flax]

john wick in hades???!?!!?????????

[strong ridge]

: O

[proud glacier]

would be nice if we can fight the olympian gods

especially zeus lol

[strong ridge]

unless booned out his gd mind zag would get throughly steamrolled by any olympian

[arctic flax]

maybe zag hears that theres a way to unbind himself from hades using something from olympus

or something like that

[reef zodiac]

DLC is very unlikely in my opinion

I would not hold your breath

[arctic flax]

i havent even finished hades so id have to get that out the way first

[strong ridge]

i would love a hades-eque game where we follow the mortal wielders of the infernal arms

[pseudo kernel]

I always think that sequels can ruin a game thats already good

like let it be stand alone no need to have a franchise for everything

[celest plover]

A new Infernal Arm

Nunchuks

[high island]

Agreed.

[celest plover]

I was thinking this all morning

[reef zodiac]

Yes, but at the same time they really did such a good job with bossfights in this game (with just a few exceptions) and it would be so cool to see more fights in this kind of format

Because there’s just so few bosses

[pseudo kernel]

Fair enough. I am sure they could do another game in a similiar style but outside of the hades world

[reef zodiac]

Oh yeah totally

I just hope they make a somewhat similar game because they’re clearly very good at it

I don’t necessarily mean a roguelike, I mean a game with this kind of pacing

[rich gulch]

Nothing like cycling through the Highlands with Hades OST.

[leaden birch]

I tried out extreme measures recently
Yesterday I think
Only used 1 since it was my first time

I'ma be real I just expected like

one single new move for the furies

like I don't know some kind of double spin slash or something along those lines
Nothing too crazy

but instead you basically fight all three

I did not expect that ( I mean sure I won anyway but I didn't see that coming at all )

[hot reef]

Wish there was a way to get Eurydice and Orpheus vocal songs in the House

After I beat the main story I immediately bought In The Blood thinking it might be that

disappointed

[narrow hemlock]

yeah none of the music stand songs have vocals, there should probably be a disclaimer for that, given how many people buy them thinking they would have them :/

the eurydice ones make sense though, shes not at the house

[lyric hatch]

Anyway, I have a handful of ideas for an hypothetical Apollo/Helios concept

[reef zodiac]

Was doing a casual Beo run and was trying to figure out why my call was charging so unusually fast. Realized it was blade dash

Blade dash made my call charge like 3x faster

[leaden birch]

okay I checked what the resources director needed for all of the rank-ups and

A total of :

325,000 Darkness
100 Chthonic Key
50 Nectar
10 Diamond
10 Ambrosia
10 Titan Blood

WHAT

[reef zodiac]

Ez

[leaden birch]

ok then again I can just skip that since it's cosmetic

[gray apex]

Yea

It's a lategame resource sink

[reef zodiac]

EM4 be like: swipe swipe spear-throw swipe swipe spear-throw spin spin (this is one attack)

[high island]

The ranks are something for players who have hundreds of hours in the game to still have something to work towards. That's it really.

[proud glacier]

what's EM4?

[high island]

Extreme Measures 4.

[proud glacier]

wait

there's something to work for after hundred of hours? O_O

I thought I have already explored most of Hades content

by just finishing it like 5x

once with each weapon

[high island]

That'd be 6 times since there are 6 weapons.

You'll need more clears to get the ending of the main story.

[proud glacier]

wait there's an ending?! :OOOO

[high island]

And there's an epilogue well after you get the ending.

[proud glacier]

do I just, clear it again and again?

[icy knoll]

yeah

[proud glacier]

just you wait, Persephone, I will be coming for you !

[icy knoll]

ideally with higher and higher heat to get the bounties but it doesn't really matter

[high island]

And after the epilogue, you can start increasing your rank... and actually working your way up to the final rank will probably take longer than everything you did before you got to the epilogue.

It's sort of a nod to the hardcore players in Early Access who were playing for hundreds of hours and kept asking for more and more things to do with their resources. So we got that.

[icy knoll]

also do the rank symbols by the healthbar ever get not-ugly
wish there was a way to disable them they don't look very good

[high island]

That's harsh, I like them.

https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Resource_Director

That has all of them.

[icy knoll]

noted

those seem very overdesigned for a tiny thing next to a healthbar

[proud glacier]

that doesn't sound that hard to 100%

considering how fun the game is lol

[signal aspen]

its very hard to 100%

[icy knoll]

idk 20 heat with all weapons is pretty hard

and i'm 200 hours in and have only gotten two badges, so it'll take a while to get all of those

[signal aspen]

i have 560 hours in the game and i still dont have all of the badges

i think i have 8 more

and they all cost like 10k+ darkness

[raw herald]

Nyaanyaa has stopped hearting every victory screen with Aphrodite 😔

[signal aspen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/801869625453183066.gif?v=1&size=40

[reef zodiac]

Uh do you realize how much 325K darkness is

You will get 500 darkness per run from bounties

That’s 650 runs

All of which need to beat Hades

[raw herald]

free

jk

[reef zodiac]

Even if you do RTA speedruns and spend an average of 15 minutes per run (which would be impossible due to the crazy luck that would require) and spend no time between runs, that’s still 162 hours. So…

[raw herald]

Anyone else take loads of tries against ||Margit|| but beat ||Godrick|| in the first few tries

[reef zodiac]

||Margit|| is definitely harder imo

But he does very low damage

Pretty tankable

I’m working on RL1 +0 no aux flawless ||Margit|| right now actually lol

[signal aspen]

||mythrix|| i feel is a lot harder

his ||final phase|| is very hard when he ||takes all your items||

[reef zodiac]

Can’t tell if that’s from a game I haven’t played or if you’re making it up

[signal aspen]

risk of rain 2 lmao

[raw herald]

The ||BAD|| has a lot of ||rbe|| and can’t be ||stunned or slowed||

[signal aspen]

||ninja paragon|| can slow it down i think

[raw herald]

||no||

[signal aspen]

with its ||passive bloon sabo||

oh

nvm

but ||quincy makes BADS really easy because nothing gets past his bow||

[raw herald]

||true||

||#video-games||

||hades is the final boss of hades 😱||

[high island]

'Tis a temporary measure to prevent starvation.

[gray apex]

||beo gud||

[signal aspen]

beo kinda ass

ngl

[raw herald]

Aspect of g*lgamesh

[signal aspen]

gilg kinda pog with its 25% global damage debuff on enemies

[raw herald]

Chad gilga

L eris

[lyric hatch]

Hello

[raw herald]

👋

[proud glacier]

but like

damage debuff is kind of useless

when you just dodge lol

[signal aspen]

im joking gilgamesh sucks

it makes you take more damage

[proud glacier]

still

if you dodge, it doesn't matter I think

[signal aspen]

yeah just dont get hit

hl5 free heat

hs free heat

aphro boons are useless

[proud glacier]

actually...

I wonder if there is a TAS for max heat

[signal aspen]

theres a routed run for 64 heat

[raw herald]

TAS is basically impossible in hades

[signal aspen]

https://youtu.be/fOJ_qJhcGEk

[raw herald]

Because enemy spawn positions can never be kept constant

[reef zodiac]

The joke is that it’s a damage buff to the enemies

[reef zodiac]

Also this is not true

Because you will get hit

[signal aspen]

you will get hit

but not me

[reef zodiac]

Unless it’s a hitless run I guess

But if it’s a heat run, you will get hit

[reef zodiac]

Why though? Couldn’t you use TAS to slow the game and advance frame by frame?

[gray apex]

It has been used a bit I think but TAS tools aren't ready for a full run etc

Also it's a lot of effort to do a run or something

[reef zodiac]

Oh for sure

But it might be interesting to see someone run the Eris route with TAS tools

Do everything on the very first frame that it’s possible

[signal aspen]

https://youtu.be/nBT1sZFrch8

[gray apex]

yea

[signal aspen]

The only TAS hades run I can think of

[gray apex]

that one

[reef zodiac]

TAS is 0.79? I’ve gotten 0.83 so that seems pretty good

I may have even gotten 0.82, can’t remember

[gray apex]

With 2 dashes?

[signal aspen]

My fastest is 0.91 I think

[reef zodiac]

Yeah

[signal aspen]

Kbm moment

[gray apex]

My best is 3.41

[signal aspen]

Fast

[gray apex]

Indeed

[raw herald]

0.77 has been done non gilga/Achilles/zag sword

So the tas isn’t even the best

[reef zodiac]

Hmm

[raw herald]

I can get 0.85-0.9 pretty consistently

[reef zodiac]

Damn really? I can’t

What’s the trick

[raw herald]

The times you don’t get 0.85 are the times you get 1.4

[proud glacier]

then, can't we make an AI to play Hades?

like with the Google DeepMind thing

[dreamy slate]

i changed my mind about the bow

[proud glacier]

I think that would be pretty cool

[reef zodiac]

No, there’s too much variation in enemy movement

And it’s never an AI

It’s a TAS bot

With set inputs

I’ve never seen an AI that speedruns games

That’s actually kinda a terrifying thought

[proud glacier]

uhhh why not

there's enough variation in Starcraft II

[reef zodiac]

I don’t know man

I don’t make TAS bots

Also wait

[strong ridge]

firstly orange and apple
secondly
i dont think it would feasible to have an "ai" be able to play hades (with purpose) but im sure you could likely setup some system where a computer could achieve a victory.

[reef zodiac]

Starcraft is a totally different thing from singleplayer games

[raw herald]

Depends how much help you give the AI

It could take years to perfect hades speedrunning

And then it would take ages to find a good seed as well

[strong ridge]

you would need to control for a lot of things for an ai to do well without some million iterations

[proud glacier]

yeah but we can augment the data and do many optimization techniques such as AdamW or Nesterov gradient descent

idk

and we can do things such as L1-regularization to create sparsity within the vector space

im pretty sure there's lots of heuristically way of approaching it

[reef zodiac]

Then try it

Maybe it’s possible and we just don’t know because nobody has really tried it idk

[proud glacier]

I mean...

[reef zodiac]

I’m skeptical but I don’t know anything about this stuff so

[strong ridge]

i think 0heat is entirely possible

[reef zodiac]

9 heat better

[proud glacier]

if we use the current screen as an input to the model, and try to combine CNN architectures with reinforcement learning, it sure work right?

[reef zodiac]

Or 11 actually, for Eris route

[reef zodiac]

I have no idea lmao

[proud glacier]

maybe use RESNET for the architecture and use the output nodes as possible actions Zagreus would do in that current situation

idk just ideas lol

sounds like a fun project, would need a good GPU to train the model though :/

[reef zodiac]

You clearly know way more about this stuff than I originally gave you credit for

[proud glacier]

well im an AI scientist I guess lol

(a bad one though)

[raw herald]

We need to combine forces

Someone who knows a lot about speedrunning

And someone who knows AI

[hot reef]

Demeter build. Rush Kick or Kinetic Launcher?

[raw herald]

Or find someone who’s both

Kinetic

I’ve watched AI learn to play tower defense games and those are way simpler

And also aren’t chasing WRs

And it still took a considerable amount of time

[reef zodiac]

Rush kick makes your special slower and also doesn’t work well with dem since a lot of the early hits will miss if your enemy is farther away

[strong ridge]

rAIma wr when

[raw herald]

Again?

A TAS wr would probably use Rama tbh

Or eris

[reef zodiac]

Oh right Rama can do some dumb stuff

[hot reef]

this game hates poseidon lmfao

"huge catch" a legendary

[reef zodiac]

What about Achilles?

[strong ridge]

i feel that having zag basically kite would be "simple"

[reef zodiac]

Faster movement through rooms makes a big difference

[gray apex]

gilga

[reef zodiac]

No

[gray apex]

[hot reef]

gilga gets you killed fast, if you wanna speedrun dying lmfao

[raw herald]

Gilga has gotta be top5 fist aspects in the gam

[strong ridge]

at least

[raw herald]

Hmm

Come to think about it it might be top 10

[reef zodiac]

Fists aspects have it rough

[strong ridge]

they suck so much

[reef zodiac]

Small amount of dodge chance, slower special, or Gilga

At least they have Dem which is decent

[strong ridge]

gilga is at least funny

doom2 but it takes longer and you die

[hot reef]

i have a love hate relationship with gilga

i have my fastest clear on it but i also cannot replicate that victory ever again with it for some reason

[twin thistle]

well hey. poseidon has two legendaries. double the love. dont mind that second wave sucks

[hot reef]

and his duo boons are pretty bad too sadly

Unshakable Mettle is actually okay, not something i'd really write home about but i definitely wouldn't complain about having it

but Mirage Shot would be a dumpster fire if not for Beowulf

[raw herald]

Nah it’s still great on cast builds

Especially Achilles with all that additive damage

[hot reef]

yeah maybe. just seems like too much effort for 30%, except on like achilles or beo or other cast damaging aspects

[gray apex]

On Beo it doesnt work properly

It's 100% instead of that 30%

So it's the strongest duo by a long shot for Beo

[hot reef]

yeah that's why i said this

i haven't played much achilles so tbh it probably is good for achilles but i wouldn't know

[twin thistle]

on achilles it helps that you want artemis attack and tidal dash anyways

[gray apex]

It's also nice on Hera

But you dont go out of your way to force it

[slim geyser]

splash dash good most other pos boons bad

[reef zodiac]

It does basically nothing though

[slim geyser]

i dont see how they gave him two legendaries and they both end up terrible

[reef zodiac]

His T2s are great

Razor shoals, breaking wave, typhoon’s fury, and wave pounding are all very good boons

[twin thistle]

poseidon call stonks

[reef zodiac]

And rip current

[hot reef]

for those not as versed with demolishing Hades like a lot of people on the server (aka moi, i struggle with hades sometimes), the no stun can make it really easy to rush down his 2nd phase

[reef zodiac]

?

It only helps with pots

Literally nothing else

[twin thistle]

i think ive gotten rip current exactly once

[hot reef]

yeah that's... an issue

😭

[slim geyser]

same

[reef zodiac]

Do you get hit by pots that often?

[slim geyser]

and i had no idea how it worked

[hot reef]

sometimes

depends on if i play smart or not

and i happen to be a dumbass

[reef zodiac]

Yeah but you’d need to get hit by like 5 pots to have the no stun make an actual difference

[slim geyser]

personally i dont like pos call

its good but its not my favorite

[reef zodiac]

And at that point you’re taking so much damage anyway

Like just avoid the pots lmao

You should not get hit by more than one pot per fight on average

[hot reef]

thank you for the advice but sadly im bad at the game

[reef zodiac]

Right but

There’s no way you get hit that much by pots and still win

Do you actually get hit by more than 3 pots most fights?

[hot reef]

not most, like 40/60, it's an issue lmfao

[mint coral]

If you want to train vs pots use heightened security

[slim geyser]

[mint coral]

You wont wanna get hit by 150 dmg

[hot reef]

i can't use heightened security asphodel breaks me

[reef zodiac]

Don’t stand in the lava

[hot reef]

i try my best

[reef zodiac]

It’s a bad idea either way

Should be avoidable

Just pay attention

[hot reef]

i mean, i don't know what to say, im not looking at my phone while I play, i'm trying my best to stay out of lava

traps were never a problem for me tbh

[reef zodiac]

40/60? What does that mean

[hot reef]

40% of the time i'll get hit with like 3 pots

[reef zodiac]

What in the world

You still beat him?

You just avoid every other attack?

[hot reef]

mostly yeah

his swings are usually never an issue for me, the only thing i'll really get hit by a lot besides pots are the skull throws, but not the rings they produce

[reef zodiac]

Genuinely might be worth running Heightened Security if you really struggle with pots and lava

[hot reef]

maybe

[twin thistle]

whenever hades spawns pots its good to ignore him and go around smacking pots to make a safe area to fight him

[reef zodiac]

Really? I never do that

[hot reef]

yeah me neither 😭

probably why i get hit with them

[mint coral]

Bait dad to clear attacks for you

[twin thistle]

good for you

[hot reef]

oh I forgot to mention i struggle sometimes with the enemies he spawns in phase one, especially any elysium ones, but other than that his individual attacks usually never get me

[reef zodiac]

What weapon do you play

[hot reef]

fists mostly

sometimes sword/shield, never the other ones lol

[reef zodiac]

Oh yeah on fists I might clear pots before fighting actually

[hot reef]

my bad dyno

i have a history with dyno 😭

[strong ridge]

🙂

[mighty bay]

Does anybody know if any DLC will be added to the game? I love Hades and really hope they expand on this awesome game

[hot reef]

man the aspect of zagreus is not very good 😭

[slim geyser]

which one

zag bow good

[hot reef]

sword

[slim geyser]

zag sword terrible

[hot reef]

it rlly is

[high island]

There've been no announcements or any indication that there will be any DLC for Hades.

[hot reef]

I don't like most sword aspects tbh

arthur is fun, nemesis ain't bad

[high island]

Anyone who knows what SGG is currently working on wouldn't be able to tell you anyway.

[hot reef]

jesus i cannot do heightened security

first room of asphodel made me lose a death defiance

i dash strike too much 😭

[reef zodiac]

Impossible

Dash strikes are amazing

Just control your dashes

Don’t just dash in random directions

[hot reef]

i mean i don't

[reef zodiac]

Well you’re dashing right into lava so clearly you could be controlling your dashes more

[hot reef]

my main issue is i try and dodge attacks with dash strikes so i can keep chaining hits

leading to both getting hit and going straight into lava

[reef zodiac]

You do know that dash strikes don’t have i-frames, right?

[hot reef]

...yes

I know exactly why i'm getting hit, it's just muscle memory lol

[high island]

Well, if you were able to do it right away, it wouldn't be much of a challenge.

It's just practice.

[hot reef]

what flourish should I use on the shield of chaos?

[raw herald]

Zeus

If it’s chaos aspect

Or Zeus aspect

Otherwise don’t use the special

[hot reef]

ye, chaos aspect

i put on artemis just because im halfway into tartarus and need extra damage

so lemme try and get zeus

[gray apex]

The base damage is so low

Trying to make it stronger is not worth it

So you go for external sources of damage

[reef zodiac]

Chaos aspect is just sad

[gray apex]

so flat damage

[hot reef]

im just trying to find aspects on weapons i like that i don't use already

that's why i tested zag sword, chaos shield, etc.

can't use arthur, demeter, and beowulf forever

[mint coral]

you can

[hot reef]

😭

i want to but i feel like pushing myself to use things i don't normally like lmfao

demeter def. my favorite aspect, consistently easy to pull off a good build

[slim geyser]

try bestlos

[hot reef]

what's bestlos

[slim geyser]

talos

talos fists

[hot reef]

oh what do they do? im playing Ashen rn can't check lmao

[slim geyser]

Your Special becomes Magnetic Cutter; its pull deals 20 damage.

[hot reef]

oh ye

what builds can you use on talos?

[gray apex]

ME

[hot reef]

what build are you

[wind violet]

lmao

merciful end

me

[hot reef]

oh

😭

what's merciful end i forget if i've seen it before

[gray apex]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523766637757726722/835126879341772810/bouldypet.gif

Ares Athena duo

[hot reef]

what boons do you recommend from each of them?

[wind violet]

so much damage

i thinkits ares attack athena dash

and just dash and attack a ton

[gray apex]

Athena Special first

[hot reef]

damn i never really get ares attack

[gray apex]

Since Dash is not a prereq

But you want Dash afterwards yea

[wind violet]

oh yeah that's true

[hot reef]

athena dash has hand-carried me through multiple runs

because of my dash striking addiction

[hot reef]

should I upgrade Talos a lot before i use it?

cuz i remember demeter ain't the best aspect until 4 or 5

[crude surge]

talos levels arent huge

bestlos isn't huge in the first place

[hot reef]

seeing as im looking for new aspects i might as well try it

🤷

[crude surge]

it makes the combo weaker ig but that isn't a huge deal when starting out

[gray apex]

Yea this is just doom doing work

[crude surge]

just for sweaty gamering

[gray apex]

Don’t need levels that much

[hot reef]

9 heat is gonna be the death of me idk what to do 😭

[gray apex]

Be a real gamer

Do it blindfolded

[hot reef]

i beat the game with only my nose

[reef zodiac]

They make your special slower

[hot reef]

🤷 ill just get hermes

[reef zodiac]

Talos is probably my least favorite aspect in the game

[hot reef]

not even that slow, it's just demeter but faster

and a little weaker but hey i can get a different build if i need

[gray apex]

It’s way slower

Than Demeter special

[hot reef]

no-

i meant for clearing

cuz of the pull

def. slower special

[reef zodiac]

Uhh

I hope you know that’s not true

[gray apex]

Well it’s still much slower than Demeter for clearing

Maybe some niche situations

Demeter burst is too good

[reef zodiac]

Demeter wr is 6:22
Talos wr is 6:39 (second place is 7:59 wtf?)

[gray apex]

Demeter is 5:59

[hot reef]

i just mean these individual chambers so far, seems like im clearing faster than demeter

[reef zodiac]

Unmodded

[gray apex]

Or 5:58

[hot reef]

which idc about speed that much, i still like demeter more but this isn't bad

[gray apex]

Yea the sub6 is modded

[reef zodiac]

That’s strange

[crude surge]

dem is way better yeah

idk I think people are just kinda bad at bestlos which makes the room clear worse

[reef zodiac]

Maybe

[crude surge]

like the tart combo is just good

[reef zodiac]

But bosses are like way worse

What tart combo

[crude surge]

well good relative to the rest of the aspect

• The combo you should base your Tart play on is cast > tap special > cancel w/ dash-strike, example at 0:47 here: https://youtu.be/4RptpB6dXNw?t=47
  It kills wringers, skullomats, thugs (with HC up), and if you add an extra dash-strike, thugs (without HC) and louts (with HC).

• The other combo you'll need for tart is cast > tap special > cancel w/ dash, which will kill witches and brimstones with or without HC.

[reef zodiac]

Hmm ok

[crude surge]

still worse than dem for sure but it makes you tart way cleaner

[reef zodiac]

Hot take but I’d literally rather speedrun Zag fists than Talos

The special delay is so atrocious

I hate it so much

[crude surge]

such slander

[hot reef]

zag fists aren't... the worst thing in the world if you get a good hermes spin

[crude surge]

[hot reef]

they're not great but

nice dodge chance sometimes

[reef zodiac]

Talos is probably faster, yes. But I hate them

[hot reef]

now demeter is fun though, i have had some ridiculous builds on demeter that i am wholly proud of

[gray apex]

You can use plume for maximum gaming

[reef zodiac]

Eww

[crude surge]

plume fun

[hot reef]

like that time i got +400% heartbreak flourish damage on fully upgraded demeter

that was beautiful

does Quake Cutter carry on from your Flourish? if i have athena flourish, will the quake also deflect?

[reef zodiac]

I think so. It’s like explosive return

Lmao standing Talos special with quake cutter is one of the literal slowest attacks in the entire game

It’s actually insane how slow it is

[arctic flax]

aspect of guan yu is pretty good

hot take

[reef zodiac]

That take is definitely at least warm

[hot reef]

it's not for people who dislike spear or low health

[arctic flax]

oh yeah I forgot the s word isn't allowed

[raw herald]

Guan yu is one of the only non-meta aspects to have a sub 6

[reef zodiac]

Guan Yu is bad Hestia tbh

[arctic flax]

I said some people strongly dislike it

[crude surge]

GY kinda good yeah

[arctic flax]

that's why I think it's kinda a hot take

[reef zodiac]

It’s not terrible

[arctic flax]

the hammer quick charge upgrade works very well with it

[crude surge]

its bad without charged skewer

[reef zodiac]

And Rama ofc

[reef zodiac]

Ehhhh

[raw herald]

I wouldn’t call Rama non meta considering it held the wr

Nobody plays with it

For speed

[arctic flax]

well that's how you get health back innit?

[reef zodiac]

It’s not meta but it’s clearly not bad either

[reef zodiac]

Yes… but

[crude surge]

you don't spin on GY

you heal 8 lose 20

[hot reef]

why do i feel like i always take more damage on thanatos rooms rather than being helped by him?

[reef zodiac]

Even with quick spin, the spin honestly sucks

[raw herald]

It’s good with massive spin

[crude surge]

your exchanging half your health to start with exploding launcher

[raw herald]

Not as good as cskewer but still

[arctic flax]

desperate for kills

[reef zodiac]

Massive spin does big damage, yeah

Good for while enemies are spawning

[hot reef]

also doesn't help that i can't see due to the giant rings of purple and explosion effects

[arctic flax]

yeah I say this cuz rn I'm doing a run with quick charge and massive spin on guan yu

among other duo boons

(smair, epic boons+ only, stronger poms)

also poseidon call

[hot reef]

is it a hot take to say artemis has one of if not the best calls in the game

[arctic flax]

yes

it's a bad take

[reef zodiac]

Yeah Arty call sucks

[hot reef]

eh i like it

[arctic flax]

Artemis call is the worst call

[signal aspen]

Artemis call is decent

[arctic flax]

probably

[signal aspen]

Ares call exists

[reef zodiac]

It’s 3rd worst imo

[arctic flax]

that's good for lernie and slow moving bosses tho

[hot reef]

ares and quite frankly dionysus' call isn't all it's cracked up to be for me at least

[signal aspen]

Nah

[reef zodiac]

Zeus > Dionysus > Poseidon >> Athena >> Demeter > Artemis > Aphrodite >> Ares

[gray apex]

Dionysus call one of the best

[hot reef]

i just dislike it idk 😭

[reef zodiac]

Big fat damage

Great call

Just don’t use a greater call obviously

[hot reef]

i mean you could say artemis' call is great for theseus, which it is

[arctic flax]

yeah I'm doing a poseidon smair run rn it's very fun

[arctic flax]

True true

[reef zodiac]

It’s decent for bosses but I’d rather have i-frames from lesser calls than having to only use greater calls

[arctic flax]

yes

[reef zodiac]

That’s the issue with Arty aid

It’s also almost useless in normal rooms

[arctic flax]

call me a Coward but I love I frames from calls

[reef zodiac]

Not a coward. They’re great

I don’t mean invincible calls btw

I mean call i-frames

[hot reef]

as a lover of burst damage (beowulf and demeter thank you thank you) artemis is a very fun call

[arctic flax]

yeah I love invincible calls r

[reef zodiac]

Zeus call has i-frames

[arctic flax]

that's what I meant

poseidon my beloved

[reef zodiac]

As a lover of calls that do something outside of bossfights, Artemis aid kinda sucks

[hot reef]

idk man i just usually am good enough to disregard my call until it's time to break the boss' health in half

[arctic flax]

True it's very situational for something that takes up a major boon slot

[hot reef]

either that or i just forget about it

😭

[reef zodiac]

Greater calls in general are pretty bad

[signal aspen]

Idk man as someone with over-

[arctic flax]

yeah honestly

[twin thistle]

if you want full call burst aphro is prolly gunna be better since you need no poms

[arctic flax]

cuz the bonus is rarely worth

[reef zodiac]

4 separate instances of i-frames on demand > 1

[hot reef]

normally i just use greater calls because i

forget they exist until the funny notification that i have a greater call lmfao

[twin thistle]

for a damaging call better to use zeus or dio minor calls

[reef zodiac]

Well that’s something that’s worth working on

Also that explains why you find Dio call to be underwhelming

[signal aspen]

Sounds like skill issue

[hot reef]

i mean that's why theseus isn't a problem for me ever 🤷

[reef zodiac]

Dio greater call is the exact same as a normal call except it costs 4 bars instead of 1

[hot reef]

as soon as he activates the 2nd phase god call whatever, artemis call can just one tap him if you're lucky

which is very fun because

i dislike theseus

[twin thistle]

he dies in a couple of seconds in general

[abstract epoch]

i only dislike theseus cause he's boring to fight

[hot reef]

yeah it's usually not hard to kill him but it's fun not having to worry about giant demeter things that tick away health

[reef zodiac]

Or just use Zeus call and do the same thing but it’s slightly less obvious I guess (and you get more i-frames)

[abstract epoch]

he just turtles and does one of 2 attacks

EM of that fights isn't much better

[reef zodiac]

EM3 Champs is an incredible bossfight

Very fun and well designed

[twin thistle]

id just spend a couple rooms paying extra attention to your call gauge and youll prolly stop forgetting it exists quickly

[hot reef]

i have tried before and i get hit more often 😭

im bad at paying attention to both

[twin thistle]

well wont get better without trying

[abstract epoch]

consistently my brain on the hades fight always goes

"why yes, i will dodge straight into the green hand aoe"

[hot reef]

y'all ever just give up on a run midway cuz u know you're not taking down hades this run lmfao

[reef zodiac]

Takes practice ig

[reef zodiac]

No
Well I’ll reset in C2 if I get Vorimed but that’s not the same

[signal aspen]

Nah I never lose

[abstract epoch]

my tip for the gank boss, not that it's great help but

focus on asterius, and always listen for theseus

when he's going to throw the spear

[reef zodiac]

If I leave Tartarus, I’m not resetting until I die

In fact usually if I leave ~C8

If I get my first boon and hammer

and they’re what I want

[hot reef]

my friend initially told me to focus theseus immediately

i don't know what kind of pyschopath masochist they are because having asterius on you whilst dodging the god-linked attacks is very tedious and annoying

[twin thistle]

for the practice ill usually just go anyways till i die

[reef zodiac]

That’s some insanely bad advice

[abstract epoch]

focusing on theseus first guarantees

[hot reef]

yeah

[abstract epoch]

you fight both at once

with aoe spam

[twin thistle]

friend has low taunt resistance

[gray apex]

That’s the gamer strat

[hot reef]

yeah idk what kind of dumb they were but ever since i tried that literally once i switched to focusing asterius lmfao

[abstract epoch]

i mean if you know you can kill theseus fast enough

maybe go for it

[reef zodiac]

You gotta focus Asterius

[abstract epoch]

but best to focus on the more aggressive of the two

[twin thistle]

well then you just go for both

[abstract epoch]

also depends on which god theseus summons, and how annoying the aoe spam will be

[hot reef]

demeter is my least favorite summon

it's so gross

[reef zodiac]

With Beo you try to hit both if possible but always target Asterius. Although tbf that’s for high heat and speedrunning where I’m not actually afraid of dying and am mainly focused on doing it quickly

[abstract epoch]

artemis is easy as it's always in a pattern

towards the middle

[hot reef]

dio also seems easy at least for me, i never find myself taking huge damage when dio is summoned

[abstract epoch]

think zeus is the worst, but hard to tell

since i'm too focused trying to kill him

[hot reef]

athena isn't fun either i don't think

[reef zodiac]

I honestly don’t remember most of them

[hot reef]

but i forget lol

yeah

[gray apex]

Zeus kinda easy too

[abstract epoch]

once you memorise the gank boss, it's not all that difficult

[reef zodiac]

I learned some of them when I was doing hitless runs but I forgot them

[high island]

That combo's name is Nyaanyaa Mewmew's Perfectly Perfect Talos Combo Mk III.

[abstract epoch]

all 3 bosses prior to hades aren't nearly as difficult

as hades himself

[hot reef]

sigh

[reef zodiac]

[hot reef]

bad chaos boons are the worst feeling

[reef zodiac]

Eh it happens

[abstract epoch]

i'm only dreading EM hades on the weapons that aren't the bow

[reef zodiac]

Why?

It’s easiest on shield by far

Bow EM4 is a lot harder than shield EM4

[abstract epoch]

i prefer the bow

shield i don't care for much

[reef zodiac]

Have you tried shield EM4?

It honestly feels free compared to bow EM4

[signal aspen]

Free

[reef zodiac]

You can just block everything (except point blank spear or sometimes cast)

[reef zodiac]

Comparatively free, that is

[signal aspen]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/869743473568403506/lou_Trim_2.mp4

[devout terrace]

nyaa im thanyathos

[signal aspen]

Everything

[devout terrace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/908168128750567456.gif?size=48

[abstract epoch]

tried the rail gun again, and it's definitely better with certain upgrades

[reef zodiac]

Well

[abstract epoch]

for the special attack

[reef zodiac]

Ok that’s just a bug lmao

[signal aspen]

[reef zodiac]

Blame the special

[signal aspen]

Block is a reliable mechanic

[reef zodiac]

I got one of the phantom blocks today I think

It said blocked but I also got hit lol

[devout terrace]

hades is a perfect game with no bugs : )

[reef zodiac]

Spearman

[devout terrace]

also I found out support fire backstabs

like today

[signal aspen]

Huh

[reef zodiac]

What

[devout terrace]

im dead serious

arti call and support fire backstab for no reason

[reef zodiac]

With shadow presence?

[devout terrace]

yeah

lemme grab a clip

[abstract epoch]

did a run with the guan yu spear

it was definitely something

[reef zodiac]

Sometimes I wonder how Haelian got through so many hitless runs with Guan Yu before switching to superior Hestia

I was genuinely surprised by the size of the difference

[abstract epoch]

i did beat hades with it without losing a life

[manic carbon]

damn

[abstract epoch]

think that was more the case of me stacking whatever boon from dionysus causes the status effect on normals

and spamming the spinny blades cause i got shorter charge time and longer time the spinny move is active

with the rail gun i got missiles and the scatter bombs(?)

so shooting it up close does big damage

[reef zodiac]

Cluster Rockets?

[abstract epoch]

that

[arctic flax]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/869743473568403506/lou_Trim_2.mp4

cdn.discordapp.com instead of media.discordapp.net

[twin thistle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/940762749393309766/Hades_2022-02-08_15-54-17_Trim.mp4

it works

not the block

[arctic flax]

bruh 3 of those mfers?

also chaos boon being active is very unlucky

[reef zodiac]

That’s not the point of the clip

[arctic flax]

yeah i know

just commenting on the fact theres 3 charon items with the same symbol active

[twin thistle]

well one is from patty

[gray apex]

If you’re enough of a gamer you can heal for 110%

[twin thistle]

yeah they last like 15 chambers each

[arctic flax]

hes got the hourglass

so big bonus

[twin thistle]

oh yeah i had that

[polar quail]

why does it feel like I haven't talked here for way longer than I actually have been inactive

[tardy shard]

so what’s the best hidden aspect?

cause i have guan yu

and i looked up the rest

and the gun seems really strong

[reef zodiac]

Beowulf

Rama is also very good

[iron oyster]

im not sure if this is satire or not

[reef zodiac]

It is sarcasm

[tardy shard]

what it do

[reef zodiac]

Load casts into bull rush on shield

[tardy shard]

seems kinda mid

follow up question:

[reef zodiac]

I just beat 52 heat with it today

It’s incredibly good

[tardy shard]

is guan yu even good?

[reef zodiac]

Not really

[tardy shard]

you people scare me

i can’t even do 8 heat yet lol

[reef zodiac]

Beowulf has held nearly every world record at one point or another

Both heat and speedruns

[iron oyster]

the current 60 heat is rama, i think?

[reef zodiac]

Or at least I think it has heat wr at one point. It’s at least up there

[iron oyster]

or was that an old one

[reef zodiac]

Zeus did 62

[iron oyster]

damn

[reef zodiac]

And many aspects did 60

[iron oyster]

ik, i meant the fastest time

for 60

[reef zodiac]

High heat leaderboard is pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies

[reef zodiac]

Nobody speedruns 60 heat

[iron oyster]

you probably get 2 shot in tart kek

[tardy shard]

damn how much heat does it cap at

[reef zodiac]

64

[iron oyster]

i imagine that em2 hydra is hell

[reef zodiac]

Watch a 60+ heat run

[tardy shard]

cause i’ve only been capped at 52

[iron oyster]

i've skipped through the rama one

lava must do hella damage

[reef zodiac]

Lmao

[iron oyster]

not much room for mistakes either

[reef zodiac]

That’s nowhere near the biggest issue

Biggest issue is ofc timer

And EM4

[iron oyster]

i cant imagine doing a run with no mirror, massive damage, against dad with em4, basically no good boons, or anything

[reef zodiac]

But a 60+ heat player could tell you better than I could

[iron oyster]

and mirror restrictions

[signal aspen]

I was close to beating 64 heat but then I died to lava

[reef zodiac]

They keep the top of the mirror

They do RI3

[iron oyster]

wouldn't that be in asphodel

[reef zodiac]

It was a joke

Lava is not a problem for that heat

[iron oyster]

i was close to beating 1 heat but i died in tart

[slim geyser]

5 achievements till i get 100% completion

i think its my stubborn refusal to ever use butterfly that keeps me from getting thorn of thanatos

[reef zodiac]

Based

Butterfly bad

[slim geyser]

it might be good conditionally but i just cant use it

i also have to use distant memory so

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/682403417339330648/954191626505424916/IMG_8264.png

thats what i have left

[reef zodiac]

Honestly it’s not

I didn’t even use it for my hitless run

It’s just bad

[slim geyser]

what did you use

[reef zodiac]

Frostbitten Horn, Conch Shell, Chaos Egg, Bone Hourglass

Imo it’s much better to control my build than to get a bit of global damage

[abstract epoch]

which would you say is the best god call?

[reef zodiac]

Zeus

[abstract epoch]

fair enough

was funny when i was right in hades face with it going off

[reef zodiac]

High damage, scales very well with more Zeus boons

Dionysus call is also really good

Those are definitely top 2 imo

Poseidon and Athena are both quite good as well

[slim geyser]

dio

dio best call

[reef zodiac]

In a vacuum, it might be

On their own, lvl1 common Dio call does more total damage than lvl1 common Zeus call (I think)

It’s just that Zeus call scales so well with his own boons

Jolted, double strike, splitting bolt

He also has billowing strength and smoldering air

[oblique isle]

same

[slim geyser]

good point

[oblique isle]

artemis and poseidon have good calls

[reef zodiac]

Artemis call is bottom 3

[slim geyser]

nah

arty call good

[reef zodiac]

Definitely bottom 3

It’s just so incredibly useless for normal rooms

[slim geyser]

needs full gauge but its good

[signal aspen]

That's the reason it's not good

[reef zodiac]

And for bosses it’s less i-frames because-
Wait didn’t I already have this debate today

Point is, it’s flashy because woah big damage. But it’s not worth it because you give up i-frames compared to other calls (at least if you’re using full call. If you use lesser calls, you actually get more chances for i-frames but the damage is awful) and it’s useless in normal rooms

[crude surge]

Call iframes very good

[reef zodiac]

Yeah

[crude surge]

Losing them to needing to get greater not good

*greater is good some times on some calls but needing it isn’t good

[reef zodiac]

Exactly

[manic carbon]

I like Poseidon cuz invincibility

but maybe for better players it's not as good

[reef zodiac]

No it’s pretty good imo

Not for speedruns but I like it for high heat

It’s decent for bosses and actually great for tough rooms

Definitely top 4

[twin thistle]

and if you get rip current and smouldering air you dont have to use anything but your call

[reef zodiac]

Yep

Also true

That’s the absolute safest you can be by far