h1-discussion

[pure karma]

First EM4 also with Demeter

And now I hate fists in general

My whole playstyle has shifted significantly

[twin thistle]

and my bumper has decided to work again

[pure karma]

Like I don't even notice FO2 and PL anymore

[twin thistle]

i like how it always kills itself at the end of 40 heat runs

[pure karma]

Maybe because you are beating it to death at 40 heat runs

I'll tell you what, my PS4 controller is not a virgin anymore

after I started playing hades

[twin thistle]

i also dropped it right before fighting dad

it was a mistake to not rebind dash back immediately

and.... it died again

okay left trigger, youre now dash

[pure karma]

Did... Hades tell Megaera to make Zagreus a man?

[twin thistle]

wot

[pure karma]

There is a dialogue from hades when you start a run

"Mortals become men faster than us. This is Megaera, she will accelerate that process for you"

or smth like that

https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Hades/Quotes#Statements

It's called "Fury"

read it lol

"You called Lord Hades?"
"...Yes. Say Megaera, my son is quite handsome isn't he? How about it?"

[lone kernel]

good dad hades giving female role models to his child and never cheating on his wife

[pure karma]

I think Hades even in actual mythology is the least vile of the olympians

Ironic

[summer leaf]

does"deal more damage" on eris affect dionysus dot?

[obtuse whale]

I think so

its global dmg

[pure karma]

You mean from getting hit by the special?

[summer leaf]

yeah

[pure karma]

I think it does because it doesn't specify

But maybe I am wrong

[obtuse whale]

I can test it

lemme do it rq

[lone kernel]

Yes Eris hangover if it’s 4 damage per tick it’s now 7 under the Eris buff

[obtuse whale]

there you go ig LOL

[shadow quarry]

how do i get 3 tital blood

[obtuse whale]

defeat bosses with different weapons

after that you will get something called the pact of punishment

[shadow quarry]

i got the sisters with all weapons already

[pure karma]

You get Titan Blood from doing bounties, Prophecies, the Broker or at styx if you have the coin

[obtuse whale]

Hades also dropps titan blood

Broker is also a great option

[shadow quarry]

no, after hades i will get that, and i am working on that

not that good at the game

[obtuse whale]

ah.

[shadow quarry]

is it worth it to trade ambrosia for titan blood?

[pure karma]

Keep unlocking weapon with keys and beat tartarus with all of themn

that is 6 blood

[obtuse whale]

If you don't have uses for them sure

[pure karma]

Ambrosia is used really late at the game, but I am not sure it is worth

[shadow quarry]

bruh, i beat tartarus with all of them

[obtuse whale]

I upgraded shady to 5 stars and then started to trade it for titan blood

[pure karma]

Then you need to either buy it or try to beat hades

[obtuse whale]

ofc you will need it for later interactions and story etc so..

[shadow quarry]

what aspect would make it easiest to defeeat hades

[pure karma]

Depends on the playstyle you like that most

[obtuse whale]

there are several

[shadow quarry]

melee

[pure karma]

Shield and Gun are probably the easiest

Melee go for shield I guess

[obtuse whale]

Beowulf and Eris yeah

[brisk trail]

Yo guys, just bought the game on steam. Is it a good game to play on my first stream ever?:D

[pure karma]

Dont think they have Beowulf

[obtuse whale]

sad

[pure karma]

Sure

I will watch

[obtuse whale]

chaos is not that good until we upgrade it to 4~5 so that's not an option

[shadow quarry]

also isnt the aspect of poseidon really good for bosses?

[obtuse whale]

but the shield is strong by itself so

[pure karma]

eh

[obtuse whale]

eh

I would use nemesis

[shadow quarry]

idk, i shredded all of them up to elysium

[pure karma]

Nemesis Sword yes I guess

[mint coral]

just play merciful end

[obtuse whale]

Oh yea fist merciful end is also an option

[pure karma]

I would recommend you try the rail

much safer

Get zeus Strike (unless hestia aspect) and you will be fine

[shadow quarry]

i got the closest with a clutch epic exit wounds and true shot with cursed sword or smth that heals 2

[pure karma]

Cursed Slash yes

[obtuse whale]

also go for rocket bomb + cluster

if ur trying the rail

[shadow quarry]

oh and btw i am already using god mode

[pure karma]

IF you like casts you can try Bow Apect of Hera

but that will take some blood

[shadow quarry]

and i am at 40 percent

[shadow quarry]

i actually have that

[brisk trail]

thanks! don really wanna advertise with links, but my twitch name is same as my disc, prolly gonna start pretty soon:)

[shadow quarry]

and boy is it not fun

[obtuse whale]

LOL the bow needs some time to settle in

I hated the bow too

[shadow quarry]

aight ill try the rail

ill tell you how it goes

[pure karma]

Don't fret, you will learn

dw

I had the exact same questions when I started

[shadow quarry]

wait what is that

[obtuse whale]

It's a build using a duo boon called Merciful End

Acquired by Athena and Ares

Any weapon is viable (well maybe not the rail) but the fist is the most.. op

[pure karma]

It makes Are's doom drop immediately when you hit an enemey with something that can deflect

so an athena boon

[shadow quarry]

so i need to get smth like deflect special and ares doom?

[obtuse whale]

ppl usually use doom strike and athena dash, so if you attack and then dash towards the enemy the doom effect will affect the enemies right away

[twin thistle]

yeah, but you also want athena dash so you can just proc it by dash attacking

[shadow quarry]

ooh that is smart

[obtuse whale]

Ares: Curse of Agony or Curse of Pain
Athena: Divine Strike or Divine Flourish

[twin thistle]

also impending doom from ares is important for gettung the damage higher

[shadow quarry]

i have both athena and ares keepsake

[mint coral]

ME works in everything

[obtuse whale]

these are the prerequisite boons needed for merciful end

[pure karma]

Hestia

I guess it can work

[mint coral]

Someone posted a MEstia the other day if i remember lmao

[obtuse whale]

you might want to go for it! Demeter fists are recommended but u can use anything

[shadow quarry]

wait so i need one of those boons and preferably athena dash and ares puch

[obtuse whale]

hestia ME???

[obtuse whale]

yea

after having both of those boons you will have a chance to get merciful end from either one of those gods

[pure karma]

Do you know how Duo boons work in general?

[shadow quarry]

wait ppl have so much attempts im at my thirty th

[shadow quarry]

got the double cast one once

[pure karma]

Mirage Shot?

[obtuse whale]

oooh mirage shot

[shadow quarry]

yes

[pure karma]

That is poseidon/artemis

[shadow quarry]

i love poseidon

much damage

[pure karma]

Agreed

[obtuse whale]

Agreed

Tidal dash chefs kiss

[mint coral]

Poseidon fun

[pure karma]

Wait until you try his call with Rip Current

[obtuse whale]

Sea storm is also one of my fav duos

[shadow quarry]

artemis is required for exit wounds so thats why i went for artemis

[mint coral]

#h1-victory-boasting message Hestia ME

[obtuse whale]

omg LOL

[mint coral]

itJustWorks™

[fading meteor]

Hm

[pure karma]

@signal aspen how did you pull that off?

[obtuse whale]

ME the duct tape of hades

[shadow quarry]

ok what do i choose from le hammer

[obtuse whale]

Rail?

What did u get

[upbeat lodge]

ok lets nooot play 32 heat

[shadow quarry]

explosive upper, breaching cross or concentrated knuckle

[obtuse whale]

upper

or knuckle

are you playing demeter?

[pure karma]

breaching cross op

strips armor like a joke

[shadow quarry]

playing base

knucke

[mint coral]

Breaching 100%

[twin thistle]

breaching then if youre going for ME

[shadow quarry]

i have talos but its annoying

whats ME

[obtuse whale]

oh wait knuckle no

[twin thistle]

merciful end

[pure karma]

Merciful End

[shadow quarry]

oh

[obtuse whale]

I confused it with other hammer options

[pure karma]

Get used to dash strikes

[shadow quarry]

i'm pretty much always do 4 punches then dash strike

for the enemies to not

[pure karma]

Start with dash strike

[shadow quarry]

lmao my controller bugged and didnt pick up my inputs properly, and when i got it working again zagreus said "fixed that one for you"

[obtuse whale]

controller ooh

who here plays with a controller?

I really want to try one out.. cries in keyboard and trackpad

[marsh rivet]

TRACKPAD?

What a legend

[mint coral]

controller comfy

[mint coral]

bc i play on switch not like i have a choice

[obtuse whale]

radiates macbook energy

[shadow quarry]

oh do you use the pro controller?

[obtuse whale]

ooh...

[marsh rivet]

I'm like, completely unsarcastically extremely impressed lol

[pure karma]

I am playing on a PS4 controller. PC

[gray apex]

Trackpad is no joke

[pure karma]

You are actually playing with a trackpad?

[mint coral]

when im playing with the swtich connected to the tv, otherwise joycons

[obtuse whale]

ngl it's not that bad (or maybe it is bad ive never tried controller)

[pure karma]

Well get an actual mouse and we will have the first 64 heat unseeded I guess.

[mint coral]

handheld joycons was my first sub 9 achilles spear lmao

[marsh rivet]

I mean I tried KBM with an actual mouse and I'm unbelievably garbage at it so yeah do with that what you will

[obtuse whale]

yes lol I play every game with a trackpad coz.. idk

[pure karma]

madlad

[shadow quarry]

i dont use my joycons at all kuz drift, pro controller is really comfy (pc)

[marsh rivet]

I think most people play the game with controller. Seeing as how it's literally recommended on the home screen :3

[obtuse whale]

ITS RECOMMENDED ON THE HOME SCREEN??

[shadow quarry]

wait you can play seeded?

[obtuse whale]

gawd

[pure karma]

I started with KBM but wasd movement was sketchy

[pure karma]

yes. kinda

not exactly what you are thinking

Like typing a seed somewhere

[marsh rivet]

(you can do that through a mod though)

[pure karma]

(what)

[mint coral]

you can set a starter seed with mod- ah too slow

[obtuse whale]

kekw casually uses companion instead of special by mistake

[pure karma]

I do that too

Left and right are hard to distinguish

[obtuse whale]

left and right??

[mint coral]

i remapped summon out of the way to avoid that lol

[pure karma]

Yeah, companion or call actually

[obtuse whale]

oh i might have it mapped differently

[pure karma]

left trigger or right trigger

[obtuse whale]

oh oh

[pure karma]

left is companion right is call

[mint coral]

summon being on a trigger feels kinda stupid

[marsh rivet]

https://imgur.com/a/fK6xmF3

[mint coral]

or like codex and reload

[obtuse whale]

it's my brain thinking everybody is using a keyboard LOL

[pure karma]

yes...

I changed those to play Hestia

cause reload on left stick is a crime

[obtuse whale]

this makes me want to try controller

[pure karma]

https://tenor.com/view/shia-labeouf-just-do-it-do-it-gif-4943205

[marsh rivet]

That makes you want to try controller. Not the trackpad?

[obtuse whale]

[mint coral]

the first days of trying hestia without remapping were pain lmao

"why do people like this"

[pure karma]

yes

I saw UnAnanas play Hestia and I was like "do they have an extra hand?"

[fast willow]

huh i never knew that

[marsh rivet]

We tried to get SGG to fix this in EA, it's literally one of our first recommendations to people across the board when they start playing lol. Codex makes perfect sense on R-stick, why would you make that feature a main button

[pure karma]

L-stick you mean

[obtuse whale]

codex is on a main button??

[marsh rivet]

whichever stick heh

[mint coral]

for me is always been on R-stick

[marsh rivet]

As long as it's not L2

[fast willow]

why is controller recommended though?

[twin thistle]

thumbstick = more movement control

[marsh rivet]

Movement in isometric games is kind of harder by default if you only have 8 directions of possible movement with WASD

[obtuse whale]

gosh imagine being able to move 360 not just wasd

[twin thistle]

though yeah ppl can still be pretty insane with kbm

[fast willow]

ikr couldnt be me

[marsh rivet]

That means (unless you're a savant and can use the atrocious dash on cursor feature) you can only dash in one of 8 directions, and only if you're already running in that direction

[twin thistle]

lets not mention the cursed input

[shadow quarry]

divine strike or flourish

[obtuse whale]

ugh

[twin thistle]

||controller and mouse||

[fast willow]

though i feel like if i played with controller aim assist would mess up my attacks

[marsh rivet]

It does, there's a tradeoff

[twin thistle]

flourish so you can get ares on attack

[marsh rivet]

Achilles and Zeus aspects are a lot better on KBM

Achilles because the auto aim range on controller is literally 90 degrees in both directions

[obtuse whale]

pog

[twin thistle]

be nice if you could adjust the aa

[fast willow]

wait

[brisk trail]

Any quick tips for a first playtrough? Nothing game breaking, starting my first stream in 10 mins:D or should i go in blind?

[marsh rivet]

So if you are within 180 degrees of a target, but don't want to aim at that target, well, good luck

[pure karma]

https://imgur.com/a/P2ag8i7

my controller scheme

[twin thistle]

asterius during spin attack

[fast willow]

so if you play eris rail you just have to point in the general direction of the target and itll snap for you?

[marsh rivet]

Yep

[fast willow]

that seems pretty good for rail

[marsh rivet]

It's amazing

[fast willow]

but not for any other weapon

maybe bow

[obtuse whale]

give athena 1 nectar so u can get dash at the start consistently with her keepsake

[marsh rivet]

It's great for casting on weapons too

[pure karma]

I dont really notice auto-aim on melee weapons

[twin thistle]

pretty easy to direct attacks with melee weapons

[marsh rivet]

E.g. if you think there's enemies slightly off screen, you can cast into their general direction and it'll auto aim and help... triangulate? their position lol

[twin thistle]

they usually have pretty good sweeps anyways

casts on kbm dont track?

[mint coral]

flashbacks to those giant asphodel rooms

[brisk trail]

will keep that in mind! whatever a nectar is:D

[obtuse whale]

I am really noticing the auto aim when I am playing rama

[fast willow]

eh casts have inbuilt autoaim anyways

[pure karma]

More like homing

[fast willow]

other than stuff like ares

[obtuse whale]

I think it's actually helping me tho LOL

[fast willow]

yeah thats what i meant oops

[marsh rivet]

Hitting that teeny tiny thin special without auto aim, especially since Hades is isometric top-down, which will never map 1-to-1 with either controller or mouse, which operate on a flat plane is very hard.

It's annoying though because not have auto aim is soooo goood for the actual attack. It makes it much easier to actually hit multiple enemies at the same time.

[lone kernel]

Melee weapons i dash strike so much that it almost feels like dash strike is gas and stick is steer and I play it like a racing game

[twin thistle]

my controller set up rn totally isnt cursed https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/897874922360164433/Hades_10_13_2021_8_53_24_AM.png

[obtuse whale]

LOL yeah it's great for the special but not so much for the attack itself

[marsh rivet]

The absolute funniest though is trying to do EM4 with Achilles, because urns continuously summon, and you auto aim at them

"funniest"

sadge

[mint coral]

Reminds me of dodging a skull shockwave with spear rush only to end up in a pot lmao

[brisk trail]

btw, how hard is Hell? Is it doable for first playtrough?

[obtuse whale]

Asphodel?

the

biome with lava?

covered in red

[mint coral]

Hell mode ig

[marsh rivet]

I would say if you have any difficulties with normal mode early clears you probably shouldn't do it in Hell Mode? Though if you're good with normal mode it's not appreciably harder

[brisk trail]

hell mode

[obtuse whale]

oH

[marsh rivet]

Just that it forces you to always have pacts on

[pure karma]

Go for it

[marsh rivet]

And bounties cap at 25 heat as a result

[pure karma]

I regret not doing it from the start

I had to make a new file

[marsh rivet]

(me too lol)

[lone kernel]

How hard is personal liability to deal with

[twin thistle]

hell mode is just bad for a first playthrough

[pure karma]

I can deal with it. Free for you

[brisk trail]

hmm, maybe i will go with normal, dont want my first stream to be more of a disaster lol

[mint coral]

Fine until suddenly is not

[twin thistle]

the pacts youre stuck with are just annoying as heck unless youre using hell mode for high heat

normal mode itself already has a difficulty system in place after your first clear

[marsh rivet]

To illustrate the controller auto aim issue with Achilles: https://clips.twitch.tv/FriendlyHotReindeerPicoMause-Wm1E2zASj-c2pv_w

[obtuse whale]

I can totally imagine myself being stuck on meg for 3 years with hell mode on for my first play

[marsh rivet]

Now try to imagine doing EM4 with urns in every direction, or like, a popper shade room lmao

Of course you could just turn auto aim off but you'd have to learn new muscle memory for where to position your thumb to actually shoot in a particular direction. It's still meme worthy though.

[shadow quarry]

can i do curse of agony for ME

[twin thistle]

uh thats attack slot right

[shadow quarry]

uer

[twin thistle]

attack is the recommended slot for doom for ME fists

[obtuse whale]

go for attack yeah

[shadow quarry]

ok what do i need i got special reflect and attack doom

what do i do now

[obtuse whale]

pray

[marsh rivet]

You need Divine Dash as well, then yes, prayers

ME is exceptionally fickle lol

[shadow quarry]

what im getting at is i need to get reflect dash and hope to get the duo boon

[obtuse whale]

you now have a chance to get ME from either one of those gods

[twin thistle]

get merciful end > divine dash > impending doom in order of priority

uh also be cool if hermes gave hypersprint > rush delivery

[shadow quarry]

so do i keep ares keepsake or do i switch it out for le athena keepsake

[twin thistle]

switch to athena

[obtuse whale]

do ppl use dire misfortune for ME?

[marsh rivet]

Dece if you get epic Rare Crop on Curse, Dashes, and Impending Doom too

[twin thistle]

naw

[mint coral]

"good" before you get ME ig

[obtuse whale]

oh it does not affect ME?

[twin thistle]

it does but not by much

[obtuse whale]

oH

makes sense

[mint coral]

It does but you are insta triggering doom

[twin thistle]

impending doom is far better due to this

but ig there arent many other ares boons youd want anyways

impending doom at least isnt pommable so it doesnt hurt

[mint coral]

It is pommable

[fast willow]

can Hermes only give rush delivery if he already gave you hyper sprint?

[marsh rivet]

Prereq is anything that gives bonus movement speed

[twin thistle]

anything with movement speed but rush is the best

[marsh rivet]

I do not know if that includes Ichor, I doubt it though

[mint coral]

Hyper sprint/greater haste/plume

[twin thistle]

or maybe it is

[marsh rivet]

But it includes hammers that grant movement speed

[mint coral]

Dire misfortune is the one not pommable

[twin thistle]

oh im dumb i meant dire lol

[fast willow]

oh so you could potentially get it on the first Hermes if you have plume

[marsh rivet]

Yeah

You can also get legendaries that way lol

[mint coral]

1% legendary gamble

[obtuse whale]

stupid question but does chaos curse movement speed also count

oh bonus movement speed

ig it does not count

[fast willow]

it says bonus so no probably

[marsh rivet]

Rush Delivery: You now deal -30% damage LOL

[mint coral]

Stacking ichors with RD is fun

[obtuse whale]

LOL if it was like that there would be challenges too

[twin thistle]

when hypersprint, and a ton of ichors and suddenly youre too fast

[mint coral]

Add dad call

[marsh rivet]

I've had sprint + epic Greater Haste before. Do not recommend. There can be too many zoomies

[twin thistle]

then try to hug dad during lasers

[mint coral]

Charon well items are always fun

[obtuse whale]

squish that daddy

[mint coral]

Specially stygian shard

[marsh rivet]

Stygian Shard unsung hero lol. It feels amazing to that into dad/EM4

[obtuse whale]

i just realized its time for me to go and watch squish that cat on yt

bye

[mint coral]

Like idk why trap dmg is multiplicative but i love it

1.6k dmg to asterius

[lone kernel]

I had a mirage shot beo in Tartarus and died to HS and Alecto

[marsh rivet]

It's only kinda multiplicative lol. That's why urns deal 153 damage iirc to Beowulf :3. Its 10% is additive afterwards from base damage

(with HS)

It's such a minute meaningless slap in the wrist of a downside I don't even know why they bothered implementing it lol.

[twin thistle]

meanwhile guan yu halving your health

[mint coral]

Half a HL lvl for having powerful bugs

Fair trade

[twin thistle]

and that huge block angle

[marsh rivet]

Sigh yeah. It's sad that when you kind of break it down, ignoring Charged Skewer (which is a big ask), if you gave Guan Yu 100% health and healing it would still be awful.

So asking GY to pay a 50% life tax for having a hammer in its pool is so rude.

[pure karma]

I don't know why they made Guan Yu like that

I can;t see the reasoning behind it

[marsh rivet]

It's probably a heuristic, most roguelikes have something like GY with a huge cost for chip sustain

[lone kernel]

just get charged skewer easy aspect

[marsh rivet]

But even for spin builds, they're basically pointless without Quick and/or Massive Spin (Winged Serpent is a scam, that hammer does nothing)

[lone kernel]

tho deadass

Aphro skewer then a Tartarus life affirmation

[marsh rivet]

So yeah... base GY has to pay the cost for the chance of getting a good build from hammers

[lone kernel]

you win

[pure karma]

The -50% max hp is inexcusable

If it was -20% maybe

[marsh rivet]

Lol, to what I said, if you made GY just not have the penalty at all, would it be broken? Not even slightly

Well, maybe Charged Skewer would be

[twin thistle]

for 40 heat hc lvl 1 guan yu, elysium rooms are harder than dad

i should probably find a way to turn off bp

wait what if i just do ri2

[mint coral]

first of all why are you doing hc lvl 1 guan yu

[twin thistle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/825862916561305643/897883610781212672/Screenshot_20211013-092846_Chrome.jpg

wait this is big brain

[twin thistle]

i for some reason have a facination with this aspect

32 heat actually took less tries than i thought because of grandma

now do i trade fo2 for fo1 bp1 cf1

actually this might not be that bad.....

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/825862916561305643/897884379618115604/Screenshot_20211013-093149_Chrome.jpg

or do i swap cf0 for cf2 uc0

or fo2 uc0 cf0

[marsh rivet]

Lol, I can't judge this. I had a fascination with Rama in Early Access. Hoo buddy

(that aspect was stank)

[lone kernel]

Leave it the way it is lol

Customs with no CF is a breeze

[twin thistle]

ri4 tho

no dark foresight while also having uc is pretty rough

[lone kernel]

True

I saw ri2

[pure karma]

Charming Asterius mid-spin and him rekking Theseus is some good stuff

[tropic arrow]

Oh no this reminds me my course work from last year

Given a heat, find all combinations that output that heat number

Dynamic programming problem, ew

[pure karma]

I have 2 hydralites in a well

do they stack

[full nexus]

Yeah

[lone kernel]

hydralite with hourglass

i miss it so much lol

LC4 makes hourglass way less effective

[pure karma]

@twin thistle What do you think I should put instead of like BP2

[twin thistle]

uh like bp1 and either lc4 with sd or a mix of hl and cf

even ap1 tbh since its hestia

[pure karma]

aight I am gonna attempt heat 40

[high island]

Good luck!

[pure karma]

didnt pick sd crap

[twin thistle]

i did 40 heat hestia with dd's and lc4 it does work

[high island]

It's okay, just win.

[twin thistle]

though i had a gold surplus

wait nvm it was lc1

i should prolly check this stuff first

[shadow quarry]

ok ME didnt work

[marsh rivet]

Lol, in my runs, ME not working is ME working as intended

[twin thistle]

all the runs where you get everything you want for ME except ME

[marsh rivet]

Or you end the run with level 1 common curse with the rest of the build

Nah I don't get salty at ME. I never go for it in the first place. Salt cured.

[crisp relic]

I’ve never actuallly gotten ME

Got the prerequisites a few times (apparently dash doesn’t work for it anymore?) but never got that duo in the run

[marsh rivet]

Lol when Divine Dash was the prereq you accidentally got dope ME builds on basically every aspect all the time

[mint coral]

Legacy is a scam it seems

[high island]

Dash hasn't been working since official release, yeah.

That was only during Early Access.

[whole comet]

is the curse thing really that necessary?

Taile's unseed 60 and the unseed 62 did not seem to pick up any chaos and win?

[marsh rivet]

Define necessary? In reference to what. Chaos is just an option for a room just like any other option lol

[whole comet]

i was told that high heat run people like to go for chaos to skip time

[marsh rivet]

Yeah, it's a valid option, for sure, but It's not "necessary". Chaos has a lot of risks and costs associated with it, or opportunity cost of a room you'd need more otherwise

Also, grain of salt, it was Pancake who was evangelizing on the pulpit of Chaos rooms.

And he tends to paint things in absolutes

[twin thistle]

uh also ap2 makes chaos a lot sketchier

and ri1

[marsh rivet]

Even AP1 RIx makes it sketchy

[twin thistle]

high heat and crazy insane high heat are completely different

when ap1 crosses out greatest reflex twice in a row

[marsh rivet]

Also, if you have a build that doesn't insanely benefit from Chaos' damage buffs, like Eris, if you get a chamber 1 chaos gate, likely whatever would be in chamber 2 could be killed in vaguely the time that Chaos would take, so if the normal reward for chamber is 2 good, you wouldn't take Chaos there, even.

[whole comet]

maybe those "in absolute" just want the time skip

buff is more like a bonus

[twin thistle]

chaos also carries quite a bit for some aspects like cast ones

[whole comet]

what's the worst curse? dash speed decrease?

[marsh rivet]

Yeah this is a common usage, but it's incredibly risky in some spots. Like for instance if you get extra mobs vs. -%dash distance before Lernie, and you only have 1 reroll. Do you spend the reroll and risk a purging pool screw later on? You kind of have to lol, both of those curses are close to autoloss

[whole comet]

hidden room prolly the best, so u dun gotta pause and decide XD

[marsh rivet]

Roiling is the worst (extra mobs)

It's multiplicative with Jury Summons

[twin thistle]

yeah roiling at high heat can instantly kill runs

[marsh rivet]

But as of now, my win rate against Lernie with -% dash distance at high heat is basically zero

[smoky vigil]

"Every time you Attack, you take damage!" Probably xD

[twin thistle]

also fast weapons with damage taken on attack is uh not fun

[whole comet]

well, at least high heat goes for SD, so hardly problem, right?

with 1 hp for a few room O_O

[marsh rivet]

It sounds patronizing to say, but just don't get hit. It's not an autoloss at least 🙂

[whole comet]

yeah, at least curse can't kill u

[marsh rivet]

I have a 51 Chiron run that accepted an attack and special curse in tart/asphodel

[whole comet]

quite unexpected, tbh lol

[twin thistle]

yeah. not as bad as roiling and shorter dashes but it means a lot less room for error

its free on guan yu though since you get oneshot anyways

[smoky vigil]

Ah it makes sense xD
I just tend to use normal attacks a lot, so I always try to get always get away fro that curse xD

[marsh rivet]

short dashes really only matter for EM2 or EM3 (and lots of normal BP2 rooms lol, but just don't get unlucky, ezpz). Meg is kind of annoying depending on how often she gets to use her circles but Alecto and Tis are pretty straightforward.

[twin thistle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/897909188984967198/Hades_10_13_2021_11_09_43_AM.png

lmao just randomly got vicious cycle in aspho and now i got hunting blades

[gray apex]

Quality heart rend

[gray apex]

Fellow Chain Shot enjoyer

[twin thistle]

and there we go 40 heat zag bow

after my other run died from my controller breaking and having to learn dashes on rb instead of lb

[gray apex]

Nice

What's next

[twin thistle]

good question

maybe 40 heat poseidon or something

[gray apex]

45 Heat Gilgamesh

[twin thistle]

or achilles

well actually that could work

[gray apex]

[rain relic]

high heat Gilgamesh sounds very tense lol

[twin thistle]

lol what terrible things will I need to add to my 40 heat gilga pact

[gray apex]

It's probably gonna be some random memery with Tidal Dash

[twin thistle]

yep lol

[gray apex]

AP1

Unless you already have that

[twin thistle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/895579531363106856/Hades_10_7_2021_12_51_09_AM.png

okay yeah this might not fun

[gray apex]

You could toggle Hell mode

[rain relic]

i love how you have every weapon on Heat level 40 and then the spear is just sitting there at 2 lol

[twin thistle]

rn its 32 lol

[gray apex]

Or AP1 DC2 JS2

[twin thistle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/895785162502184981/unknown.png basically 40 heat

[gray apex]

But that sounds awful

Serrated

[twin thistle]

funny anvil

[gray apex]

Oh this is spinny GY

I thought its Charged Skewer

Also ice Wine

[twin thistle]

was tryna get charged skewer from anvil

[gray apex]

Wtf

[twin thistle]

uhhhh... it came up

[gray apex]

This is some top tier memery

[twin thistle]

randomly

lol ice wine with no cast

I was hoping for that sweet 410 gold

[whole comet]

how's exploding shot for spear?

[gray apex]

Great

[twin thistle]

its what makes zag spear usable

[gray apex]

Along with Charged Skewer

[twin thistle]

ye

[whole comet]

but what about Achilles spear?

[twin thistle]

cant get it

[gray apex]

Can't get it

[whole comet]

ah makes sense

[gray apex]

Can't get Charged Skewer either

Or Chain Skewer

[whole comet]

once i got it, i just go for special spear run lol

[twin thistle]

achilles can get vicious

[whole comet]

seems pretty powerful

[twin thistle]

yeah no chain lol

[marsh rivet]

Achilles used to be able to get chain lmao

"good" times

[gray apex]

I wanna try that

[marsh rivet]

It's fun for a couple of rooms but then Asphodel happens

[gray apex]

I like the idea of Chain Skewer

It just sucks tho

[high island]

There aren't enough enemies for Chain Skewer to do much without JS.

[pure karma]

I reached styx at 40 heat

ok

pls

TD ran out...

Man I almost killed him

😦

[signal aspen]

F

[mint coral]

F

[twin thistle]

F

[whole comet]

A famous blue hedgehog once said:

You Are Too Slow! XD

[devout terrace]

Sadness

[summer leaf]

i was going for a record run, got to last zone in 13 minutes and the sack was in the very last corridor, 17mins in and now i just found it sadge

[signal aspen]

five sack pog

did you also fight tiny vermin?

[twin thistle]

this is why i play modded

[summer leaf]

no i wasnt that unlucky

[signal aspen]

lmao

[keen raven]

No Zagreus!!! that is not a friendly 🐐 goat !!!

[mint coral]

One my favourite deaths

next to the bear one

[twin thistle]

death from allergies

[oblique shore]

New idea:LET ME BEAT THE FINDDJM ELYSIUM BOSS FIGHT PLEASE

[wispy idol]

yall should i take side hustle or greater evasion

decisions are the hardest part of this game i stg

[marsh rivet]

Side hustle is poo and greater evasion is great

So do that :3

[wispy idol]

ok thanks :0

[summer leaf]

is there a way to keep the musing playing when i leave the styx after a run?

[marsh rivet]

You can play music manually back at the House using the House Contractor upgrade

Not sure if that's what you were asking

[summer leaf]

no i mean if i select the music

and leave for an escape, get back into the house

so the music keeps playing

so i wouldnt have to keep choosing it everytime

god damn its already 11pm

i gotta get some sleep

gn ;-;

[marsh rivet]

(that would be nice, but no)

[gray apex]

just 1 more hades run

[autumn fog]

the number of times I said just one more run

and then it was 7 in the morning

[gray apex]

Relatable

[autumn fog]

getting real good at the 1 sleep cycle power nap

[lone kernel]

my next clear is my 200th

[gray apex]

Meme it

[autumn fog]

I haven't broken 150 yet but I'm close

[gray apex]

Merciful End Beowulf go

[lone kernel]

nah imma do 40 beo

if i blow it 3 times, then it's gonna be a meme

[gray apex]

Lol

gl

[lone kernel]

hahahahaha

[autumn fog]

I'm doing fists only until I can no hit tartarus and asphodel

I can no hit with every other weapon but these things

I tell you I have no idea

they fight so differently

[lone kernel]

easier to not get hit when youre far away from targets

[autumn fog]

who are you, who is so wise in the ways of science?

[meager ridge]

smh 40 heat is the worst

[lone kernel]

Try 41

[meager ridge]

i'm not trying this game again

[marsh rivet]

Okie doke, good luck on your next run!

[lone kernel]

[meager ridge]

hahahaha

i only joined back to check any replies to my rating on hades

[marsh rivet]

You'll get em next time champ

[meager ridge]

i'm not playing that again

[marsh rivet]

Chin up

[meager ridge]

i can't

[last veldt]

No chin left?

[meager ridge]

i wasted 30+ hours on an ass game

[last veldt]

Hades does hit hard

[meager ridge]

yeah, hits hard in the balls after you die and waste 30 minutes on an escape attempt

[last veldt]

If you're doing 40 heat after 30 hours sounds like you had fun.

[meager ridge]

mate

the 40 heat part was a joke

[last veldt]

Oh

[marsh rivet]

He's "it's complicated" with this game on facebook

[last veldt]

Heh

[meager ridge]

true...

[last veldt]

Took me 40+attempts to get Dad first time.

[meager ridge]

k

[last veldt]

And by 60 I was done with the main story. Once it clicks, it's sweet

[modern garnet]

It's a game that tries not to run out of stuff to do for people who are enjoying it

I dunno how it could be designed for people that aren't enjoying it

[last veldt]

Right. Best roguelite ever IMO

I normally get bored of them really fast

[marsh rivet]

add addicting gatchapan microtransactions perhaps

[last veldt]

Noooo

Not that!

[twin thistle]

LMAO

[meager ridge]

lol

[twin thistle]

oh youre not actually doing it. sad

[meager ridge]

wait

[last veldt]

Pay $5 for 100 gems or 1 Ambrosia. Urghh.

[meager ridge]

you thought i was serious?

[last veldt]

Some people get out on their 2nd go. Maybe you're just a natural (I missed the earlier conversation)

[marsh rivet]

give it 2 more days

[meager ridge]

no way

[marsh rivet]

We like to think of them as "Surprise" mechanics

[meager ridge]

no

[last veldt]

I wonder if anyone has verifiably got out on their first ever go.

Actually, supergiant sound like such a good company they could do a reverse of the gacha mechanics. They could donate a small amount to charity for every player who gets above say 32 heat.

That would be an incentive for me to keep playing.

[marsh rivet]

Maybe with a little help from our Merciful End themed loot boxes*

*Does not contain Merciful End

[last veldt]

Haha

Merciless con more like

[marsh rivet]

They contain fun Merciful End decals and stickers, along with adding Dionysus and Artemis into your God Pool!

[last veldt]

Hey don't dis Artemis! 🏹

[sour elk]

What about three more days?

[marsh rivet]

lol, it was a fresh file joke. Fresh File shops have a different behavior than normal playthroughs, where they only give you offerings of Gods you've picked already

[last veldt]

Ooh

Didn't know that

[marsh rivet]

So if you happen to get Artemis you're basically poop out of luck to get ME that run

[last veldt]

Obscure joke is best joke

Could you ME on fresh file run?

[meager ridge]

no

[last veldt]

I guess so, just rare.

[meager ridge]

i am not playing this game again

[marsh rivet]

Yeah, Fresh File is basically ME slot machine simulator

[last veldt]

Heh

Might be bored enough to try that one day.

[meager ridge]

this game is a slot machine

[marsh rivet]

I believe in you! Go go go!

[last veldt]

That the R in Roguelite.

Oh wait

[sour elk]

I am luck!

Always getting Nourished Soul and After Party all the time!

And Cursed Slash, too! None are luckier than I!

[marsh rivet]

That's a good way of looking at it. Instead of being sad when AP1 crosses out Splitting Bolt 3 times, imagine how unbelievably lucky you had to be to get that exact outcome!

[sour elk]

So lucky! I really feel like a Greek god when I then get that sweet sweet common Life Affirmation and a Premium Vintage for good measure

[mint coral]

not like they are bad boons

[sour elk]

I have actually talked myself into wanting to do a stacked Arthur run

[whole comet]

someone is streaming Hades right now

and doing deathless fresh file

[raw herald]

Nitrostarch?

[whole comet]

bushy's the one im watching

and really

i dun understand why Asterius fight, people just won't wait for safe moment, and just end up losing 40 hp XD

[mint coral]

this game really gives me quick spin everytime then refuses to have massive spin

well anvil got me massive, neat

[tawdry comet]

I FINALLY beat hades

[mint coral]

congrats!

[tawdry comet]

I was surprised about [redacted] not fighting me

[autumn fog]

attempt number 148

still haven't got out

[turbid summit]

Wop attempt nr 10, got down hades! (after suffering a crash due to ym gpu and had to restart)

[autumn fog]

but just freed sisyphus

so

it's not all bad

[turbid summit]

ofh that does sound harsh. If you want i can give some suggestions based on how i cleared it

[autumn fog]

appreciate it friend. I've beaten papa Hades down to his second health bar but I started in Hell mode and have basically played blind

so I'll get there

[turbid summit]

is that a appriciate the offer but you decline it?

Or you want my input?

[autumn fog]

lol yes I appreciate the offer but decline it. I got some coaching last night so I'm guessing I'll get out shortly

I'm also a perfectionist so no hitting is kinda a thing for me

[turbid summit]

Ahhhh alright, well may i regail my janky victory combo then? Not for teaching, meerly cause it feels more i won due to janky luck

[autumn fog]

for sure

I'm running currently so if I don't respond immediately I'm probably killing something

[turbid summit]

So i started off with zagreus shield, taking ares keepsake just cause...sounds fun to special slam everything...jumps in gets upgrade hammer so my shield special bounces 4 extra times...

[autumn fog]

sounds spicy already

[turbid summit]

Troughout tartarus i first get epic Ares special boon....i think "great maybe if i get athena everything will go splendid"

gets dionisus and aphrodite

SO MUCH OF THEM

[autumn fog]

could be worse

that's a lot of DoT

[turbid summit]

but.....and here is the creme on this jank cake

i didnt take their attacks, their dash, their cast

I took their utility

[autumn fog]

wut

[turbid summit]

-all of them-

[autumn fog]

LOL

[turbid summit]

and most of them were rare or epic

[autumn fog]

I mean I guess that's not terrible

just janky

[turbid summit]

Suddenly, a wild hermes boon streak enters the picture...gives me extra dash, extra speed, extra -special attack speed-

[autumn fog]

on top of your utility

that

[turbid summit]

And finally...to end this one extra hammer that meerly upgraded my attack...

[autumn fog]

actually doesn't sound awful

[turbid summit]

And you know...

Aeres doom utilities...

:3

[autumn fog]

oh lord

[turbid summit]

rare and epic

[autumn fog]

that's how you got out

that's amazing

[turbid summit]

ofc since i got dionisus little "get extra damage from fountains" in tartarus...

I had ALOT of damage bonus

[autumn fog]

see I ran butterfly

oh

actually

so if I clear rooms in Styx with butterfly without taking damage

it doesnt upgrade butterfly

I'm guessing that's intentional but I don't really know why

[ember flume]

yeah, strong drink is really solid

I got a 15% damage boost once

[turbid summit]

Seee, i have all fountains unlocked

[mint coral]

only the last room of each tunnel counts

[turbid summit]

Got all fountains

[autumn fog]

@mint coral thanks. did not know that

[ember flume]

mfw I get posioned

[turbid summit]

Feelt nice basically imagening Zagreus as cap america

and stand in one lone corner always

and spam shield special

[ember flume]

yeah

fighting hades does get repetitive

[turbid summit]

tbh i havent even unlocked all weps

so got alot left to do XD

[brisk trail]

Strong drink is ultimate life saver

20 hp and found fountain but u have strong drink

[lunar orchid]

waaa

i just got 2 ledgies and 2 duops

WOPOOWEE

[mint coral]

which ones?

[lunar orchid]

im doing achilles with blade rifts

im trying the cast with the regen instead of 3x

ive not really ever played with it

i got the legendary hermes boon too

and the one that makes it 2.75sec

instead of 3

[mint coral]

bad news pog

[lunar orchid]

so its just blade cast craziness

[mint coral]

(funny thing: that boon is bugged and the increase is to every attack you do, not cast only)

[lunar orchid]

which one?

[mint coral]

hermes legendary (bad news)

[lunar orchid]

the 50% without cast stuck in them?

[mint coral]

yup

[lunar orchid]

its wil cause my cast doesnt stick in anyone

lol

its a rift

[ember flume]

r

[lunar orchid]

oooo

i wonder how fast i can do hades

ill record this is wacky

[mint coral]

lmao
was begging the game to give me a than spawn to save time and it spawned on a room without boons/hammer/pom

[whole comet]

find something interesting

so, acorn prevents u 5 hit, and games tend to save after you take dmg

If at a boss, after u lose the acorn effect, it looks like u can still just quit and restart at boss

[last veldt]

Good for practicing EM4

[whole comet]

lol u could say good for anything O_O

at least, EM3 and EM4

hardly think that's practice, should still count as legit win 😄

[vapid narwhal]

You can't quit mid boss fight. The Quit option is only usable in free rooms and after completing an encounter

[twin thistle]

you can if you havent taken damage

[vapid narwhal]

TIL

[whole comet]

as i said, it is something i just found

could be useful on boss fight

[split owl]

27 runs in Hell Mode and I've beaten Meg once, and not until like run 24.

[twin thistle]

your first playthrough?

[slim iris]

What’s the fastest way to get Titan blood

[twin thistle]

get clears

as in escape

[void vigil]

while you escape, you can also save up 1200 obols each time to buy it in styx if its there. if not, you can buy a bunch of other stuff in the styx shop

[split owl]

No, I've beaten Hades several times on another file with God Mode on. I just wanted to start a new game with more of a challenge.

[void vigil]

but yeah the fastest way is just escaping with each weapon, turning up the heat, and then escaping again. though you can also do prophecies over time, or trade 15 keys for one titan blood at the wretched broker

[twin thistle]

ah icic

[split owl]

Sometimes the broker has deals for titan blood too, but I think you have to have seen blood beforehand in order to get it as a "daily" offer.

[void vigil]

yeah, thats the trade i meant

[split owl]

Doesn't he offer better deals when it's the special offer?

[void vigil]

usually the deal is 1 ambrosia for 1 titan blood

[twin thistle]

the 15 keys one is the special offer

[void vigil]

15 keys is the better offer

[split owl]

Ah okay

I usually take his special offer no matter what it is, because reasons. LOL

[void vigil]

i forgot to even mention the ambrosia one because i never even consider it lol. i hoard resources like nothing else lol

even though trading some ambrosia into titan blood is technically okay because youll have a surplus eventually

[fast willow]

some of his special offers are pretty bad though

i think one of them is giving 1 titanblood for 600 gems

but the actual gems to titanblood ratio if you trade up is 1000 gems = 1 titanblood

so its not a good trade

[twin thistle]

2 titanblood for 1 ambrosia

[brisk trail]

Profitn't

[tight wharf]

Hi, wondering does playing on switch feel any good? Want to buy a switch version and crossave with my steam.

[halcyon girder]

Eh kinda

It hurts your thumb tho but you will do fine

[tight wharf]

Ah, didn't think of that. Joycon is painful indeed.

[halcyon girder]

Nothing really change just different controller

The aid is zl or zr if I'm not mistaken

The dash is B

The attack is Y

I think

I can't remember

[tight wharf]

Thx, I believe mapping is not a big deal.

[brisk trail]

I find it harder to play hades on controller

Considering im not used to it

[tight wharf]

I play on PC with Xbox controller

[twin thistle]

i should try how it feels playing using the trackpad

[fast willow]

em4 trackpad

[tight wharf]

Wait, you mean those kinds on laptop or separate ones for drawing

[twin thistle]

laptop

i can play 32 heat onehanded with an xbox controller but trackpad on keyboard sounds like death

[tight wharf]

You should try using red button on ThinkPad

[gray apex]

Who came up with the one handed idea

It’s delightful

[twin thistle]

i saw a reddit post about a person who broke their left hand or something and want to play or something

[frigid fossil]

Um can someone help me with something? I startes learning the lyre and Im at a point that im playing really good making music. But I Orpheus has left the house and I cannot interact with him anymore. I freed him from his contract. When does he come back?

Also after that when i went to euridice he wasnt there either

[twin thistle]

just do some more runs, orpheus will come back

[frigid fossil]

Thank you

[oak gull]

It is, if you have a surplus of titan blood and a demand for gems. I usually don't convert gems to titan blood. I might convert nectar, keys and diamonds up to titan blood, but it just isn't worth it to convert right up from gems.

[solar lintel]

Is the Wretched Sneak supposed to prematurely clear the ||Maim status effect from Gilgamesh|| when he teleports without suffering damage from it?

[gray apex]

I think so

He also clears Rama and Chiron mark

[high marlin]

do we ever fight cerberus?

[gray apex]

Not really

[high marlin]

i see

zag strangely wooed doge after elysium

i was wondering if doge comes back later at all

made it to 45th chamber and boom! sed lyf

[solar lintel]

Noted, thanks

[gray apex]

If you do EM4, Hades can call Cerberus

[high marlin]

uhhhhh

EM4?

[gray apex]

Have you gotten your first clear?

[high marlin]

not yet

[high marlin]

ugh

[gray apex]

Spoilers are allowed in this Channel

Better watch out

[high marlin]

spoilers dont deter me...

but ig i'll discover myself

[gray apex]

EM4 is Extreme Measures 4, it’s a heat modifier that you can unlock through the Contractor

Heat is unlocked after you get a clear for the first time, you can set heat before you start a run, but that specific pact isn’t available right away

That sums it up I guess

[high marlin]

understood

thanks a lot for typing

[gray apex]

Np

[tropic arrow]

I’ve never run a successful Crit. build

It’s almost always better to just go Aphrodite for higher raw dmg

😫

[high marlin]

doom from ares and hangover from dionysus are super dope imo

i run with the rail... almost every run now

[tropic arrow]

Also Artemis build is hard to trigger privileged status

[high marlin]

suits more if daedalus can turn the special into rocket

[gray apex]

Pressure Points and Hunter’s Mark should help with consistency on most crit builds

[high marlin]

ayo btw

any god i should gift more?

[summer leaf]

The ones for companions i guess?

[high marlin]

i recently gifted dusa and meg.... but the keepsakes are really meh tbh

[high marlin]

uhhhhhh... game has companions lmao?

too new ig i am

[oak gull]

Keepsakes are pretty good.

[summer leaf]

Then get at least 1 to every1 first imo

[high marlin]

they are... the ones from dusa and meg are meh imo

[high marlin]

understood

[oak gull]

The meg one gets better once you learn how it works.

It is really meh right off the bat, tho.

[high marlin]

meg's earring wants me lose health lol

[gray apex]

The Earring can be good for high heat to pick up the pace if you’re running low on time

Usually in Aspho

[high marlin]

i see

[oak gull]

Oh, I thought that was about the companions.

[high marlin]

skelly's tooth super handy tho

[oak gull]

I don't get much use out of meg's earring.

[summer leaf]

Is it ever viable to use outside the 1 dd per room perk? For lowlife

[gray apex]

It’s situational

[gray apex]

It’s viable when you start taking LC4, it’s the most reliable way to heal

[summer leaf]

Wait... heal with what

Megs earring gave dmg in ll,no?

[oak gull]

getting downed and healed to half?

[gray apex]

The Stubborn Defiance is your main source of healing when Lasting Consequences is maxed, since you have no healing from other sources, the defiance itself refills every time you enter a room, if you have 1 hp, you can make sure you die before the encounter ends so you fill back up to 30%, and you can rinse and repeat whenever you get a similar situation, sometimes you might not need to, there is also a trick which involves losing your stubborn defiance then picking up Athena’s Last Stand or Deathless Stand which will refill a DD in the SD slot before you leave the room, when you enter the next room your SD refills in another slot and now you have a Stubborn Defiance and a Death Defiance, good for boss fights where you tend to get hit a lot more

Meg’s Earring synergizes naturally with the SD and LC4 combo, since you’re almost always <30% hp you can have great uptime on the buff

[high marlin]

DD and SD both at once?

op

[gray apex]

Yes

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/898192317347954738/image0.png

Rip it’s not previewing the link

[high marlin]

anybody playing using God mode?

[mint coral]

Played when starting the game with it but not currently

[high marlin]

is it like suuuuuuuper easy compared to normal?

[gray apex]

Not really, but it ramps up the more you die

[mint coral]

^ at the start it gives you 20% dmg reduction and it goes up by 2% each death

Caps at 80%

[high marlin]

[mint coral]

Mine is like 40% last time i checked

[high marlin]

time to use a slot at work

[gray apex]

Mine is 80%

[mint coral]

Oh also, god mode wins are tracked appart if that mathers for you

[high marlin]

now thats neat

no bragging rights getting stolen here

neeeeeeeeeeat!

[gray apex]

You can also see it in the boon menu

If you show a win

Altho you can turn it off right before you win I think

Idk I never actually used godmode

[high marlin]

you never used god mode?

[mint coral]

You can afaik but i dont remember on what side it counts

[gray apex]

Yea I'm just memeing lol

Time to use Godmode to do 50 Heat Gilgamesh

[high marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/chris-farley-tommy-boy-its-go-time-lets-do-it-gif-15258843

[gray apex]

Oh I cant use godmode anyway

[mint coral]

I remember dropping god mode early but as soon the guan yu prophecy appeared i turned it on again

[gray apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/898196884928204821/Hades_gm0lnuIa8B.png

rip

Time to switch to the other save

[high marlin]

parkour!

[summer leaf]

What does hell mode do?

[lone kernel]

Start with 5 heat that’s permanently on (hl1 lc1 cp1 js1 and personal liability, unique pact to hell mode)

[high island]

Crit builds only really scale with Hunter's Mark, Heart Rend, and lots of Chaos boons.

[tropic arrow]

Yea pretty bad in general

I mean with tons of Chaos boons anything works

[marsh rivet]

And bonus % damage hammers. Which is massively relevant to bow at least.

[tropic arrow]

Crit builds are not strong enough in raw damage output to compensate for its inconsistency

[marsh rivet]

... I agree with you for consistency but Deadly Strike and Heartbreak Strike are literally balanced to be effectively the same damage in a vacuum lol

[tropic arrow]

You mean the expected value of DPS?

[marsh rivet]

For fast or multiple hitting aspects, the consistency problem goes down dramatically, and any bonus damage obtained will benefit Artemis more than Aphrodite. Aphro's upside is consistent damage, Weak, and access to Smoldering Air.

[tropic arrow]

"any bonus damage obtained will benefit Artemis more than Aphrodite"

How?

[marsh rivet]

Because crit is multiplicative

[tropic arrow]

Uh yea

And that's why the bonus damage should be the same whether you running crit or just normal damage?

[high island]

Flat %...? What? That's literally an oxymoron.

[marsh rivet]

sorry, didn't mean flat, fixed with bonus

[tropic arrow]

If the expected value of DPS are the same, then all damage bonuses should work the same on either build

Unless they're specific to crit

Hunter's mark can raise the expected DPS of a crit build significantly, but doesn't help too much on fighting dad

And it's really hard to run a crit build and trigger privileged status consistently too

[marsh rivet]

...Okay, one thing at a time lol, I'll address Privileged Status in a second lol

Zag Bow (50 damage Power Shot, 15% base crit):

50 * (.7) * (1 + 0.2) + 50 * (.3) * (1 + 0.2) * 3 = 96 (Deadly Strike, common)
50 * (.85) * (1.5) + 50 * (.15) * (1 + 0.5) * 3 = 97.5 (Heartbreak Strike, common)

50 * (.7) * (1 + 0.2 + 1.5) + 50 * (.3) * (1 + 0.2 + 1.5) * 3 = 216 (Deadly Strike + Perfect Shot)
50 * (.85) * (1 + 0.5 + 1.5) + 50 * (.15) * (1 + 0.5 + 1.5) * 3 = 195 (Heartbreak Strike + Perfect Shot)

Since you're multiplying against the bonus damage, that's just what crit does. It scales harder off of bonus damage than just more additive bonus damage would

[high island]

Crit builds suck relatively without good bonus damage because you can't hit damage breakpoints reliably.

[marsh rivet]

That's fine, I concede that, I was arguing against that non-crit vs. crit scale equivalently over more bonus damage

[tropic arrow]

Thx for the effort, not very readable tho

No idea what each number in that equation stands for

[high island]

If I can one-shot Spreaders every time with Heartbreak Strike but can't do that with Deadly Strike, it doesn't matter what my average DPS with Deadly Strike is on a hypothetical enemy with infinite HP.

The actual DPS in a run will be worse than Heartbreak Strike.

Which is why the meta has strongly shifted towards Heartbreak > Deadly on most aspects.

[marsh rivet]

Base damage * Non-crit chance * Bonus damage + Base damage * Crit chance * Bonus Damage * Crit Multiplier

[tropic arrow]

I think if we're talking about the 'actual DPS', dmg overflow is what makes it low for a crit build

The crit hits make up for the low damage but it's often wasted

[high island]

No, it's the garbage low damage on non-crits.

[lone kernel]

Two Artemis zag bow arrows will one shot a witch, one aphro will do the same

Also smoldering

[marsh rivet]

Overkill is definitely not the issue with most aspects. Yeah, it's minimum damage that's the problem. And yes, those are actual weaknesses of crit lol, but I'm just pointing out that by like... the nature of crit, in any game, you'll get more out of % damage than non-crit will lol. Otherwise why would you ever run crit... in any game... ever

[lone kernel]

The game wasn’t designed to be in a vacuum - individual crit is one thing, but throw up some hunters marks and now you’re critting everything

Or go super big brain and get deadly reversal for a 20p crit on aphro attack

[marsh rivet]

It's not useful for analysis purposes to start throwing in everything lol, my point was just showing how damage math works. All sorts of crap can skew things in one direction or another

E.g. Chiron hits 8 times a volley. Its crits may as well be perfectly consistent