not sure but if you break the shield of the souls, and you hit it it'll reset the respawn timer because of stagger
#h1-discussion
analog sentinel
tepid plover
i think they are fine as they are, they arent really tanky and you can stagger them
also they dont attack you
analog sentinel
Anyone have a list of requirements to trigger ||epilogue||?
tepid plover
Theres a steam guide
balmy ginkgo
sometimes you cant stagger them as it puts you really OOP
tepid plover
Oop?
balmy ginkgo
out of pos
analog sentinel
Eek looks like I'll have to run heat 0 build for Zeus and Demeter
tepid plover
I've been playing for over 200 hrs and I've never felt like it was an issue, yes I sometimes get screwed, but thats just the game
Elysium is close to the last zone, is supposed to be hard
I've died a bunch of times there, but I dont think they need to nerf anything, if anything, is my fault
I just learn and go again
zealous galleon
the shield is absolutely the best IMO
it has more range than the fist (not only with attack but also special obviously), you can dash spam attack it unlike some other weapons and when enemies do some complicated attack you don't even need to dash away or anything, just block
tepid plover
Thats not really a problem, I've gotten some crazy stuff with chaos
wheat kayak
Using ||Hades' keepsake|| in the final boss is hilarious
I have won admittedly only a pitiful 16 times but it hasn't gotten old yet
cloud apex
||"Dad!"||
||"What!?"||
sudden basin
Question : Does Dionysos's poison effect rise up with the percentage of damage ?
wheat kayak
||-Father!
- Yes I can hear you just fine!||
cloud apex
If you mean global damage modifiers, yes, it does affect hangover
something like Family Favorite mirror perk, for example
sudden basin
yes this is my meaning
granite ether
||"Father!"||
||"Oh, Shut up"||
sudden basin
or Eris Aspect, +45% on my Technic. If I have a poison effect by 9, is it still 9 or 9*1.45 ?
cloud apex
The 9x1.45
wheat kayak
@knotty karma oh hey
sudden basin
ok ty very much
granite ether
9*(1+0.45), as to account for any other universal modifiers
sudden basin
nice
cloud apex
^ yeah that's more correct way of saying that
rigid escarp
Do you think Charon would accept dollars or euros?
granite ether
if you converted them to obols first, maybe
ashen nexus
is it just me or does the voice of the Narrator/Storyteller sound a lot like Malcolm McDowell?
granite ether
it's Logan Cunningham ^_^
carmine ravine
charon dont even accept gems, y would he take paper money
rigid escarp
They make gold coins of modern currency
If he failed to accept anything but obols I’d imagine the Styx would’ve been flooded countless times over by now
carmine ravine
i dont think physics apply here since you drop obols in a well for an item
rigid escarp
Sure but that doesn’t mean that the metaphysical properties of the Styx aren’t based on how many souls are filled by it
balmy ginkgo
i cant make shield work
the damage is so low
i dont know what im doing wrong
feels like 0 dps weapon
granite rapids
Maybe add lightning bolts to it
balmy ginkgo
im using chaos aspect
and it just feels so weak compared to other weapons
this is the only weapon im struggling with since things just refuse to die
ashen nexus
@granite ether I know, but still sounds a awful lot like Malcolm McDowell 😛
balmy ginkgo
if you dont have a wall to push them to for the bonus damage its just.. useless
granite ether
I don't know who that is 
ashen nexus
ever seen A Clockwork Orange? or Star Trek: Generations? Caligula? etc ^^
he was also in Wing Commander 3/4 as Admiral Tolwyn 😄
granite ether
ahh, makes sense, I'm terrible with remembering names 😅
ashen nexus
(and a bunch of other games as well including Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 - Uprising, God of War 3 etc)
he was Daedalus in GoW 3 apparently 😄
so would have fit just into the voicecast of Hades that way as well
zinc nacelle
what is the worst base weapon in your opinion?
granite ether
the one I'm terrible at playing
aka the spear
ashen nexus
😄
zinc nacelle
i had such an OP spear run earlier
granite ether
niceu :3
zinc nacelle
flurry slash , that range slash and bunch of other stuff
was insane lol
imo sword is the worst base weapon id say
granite ether
all the base weapons are good in their own right
zinc nacelle
bow is pretty good for a base weapon
granite ether
I personally can't play spear or shield all that well
fierce jackal
Chaos sucks unless it's really upgraded, zeus shield is really really good though
Literally just free damage on top of your attacks
zinc nacelle
just spam shield charge and you cant lose
fierce jackal
I have to say - I really really hate the exogryph
zinc nacelle
:(
fierce jackal
It feels absolutely terrible unless it has zeus attack
dull isle
hi everyone, someone speak french please ? moderator or other ?
rigid escarp
Exogryph is alright but it shines best with the flurry fire perk
granite ether
I don't know or understand french sorry Breizh 😅
granite ether
yeah sure ^_^
zinc nacelle
i unlocked all mirror upgrades
i think
is there anything i can use keys on?
except trading
granite ether
there's a ||theme that costs 200 keys from memory||
granite ether
if not holding onto them and trading them for titans blood when the deal comes up is also nice
yeah pretty much
analog sentinel
||and after finishing the game, you can also use it for upgrades with the shade in Hades's Bedroom||
analog sentinel
||but they're merely cosmetics||
rigid escarp
I thought that didn’t use keys
analog sentinel
It uses 100 in total
dusk mantle
No achievement or anything for beating || EM4 hades || ?
austere stag
so how am i able to further progress Hypnos' affection?
granite ether
Nope, no achievement for that, same reason as there's no achievement for skelly's 3rd prize statue
tiny grove
Let's be fair, 90% of the "progression" of the game is basically cosmetic, storytelling and character building. Everything that represents actual tangible progression in your strength can be found in Skelly's room or the Mirror
but I love the set of characters so much
I keep coming back
dusk mantle
@granite ether there's an achievement for EM3 - EM4 is way way harder. Anyway, I've taken a screenshot the old fashioned way when my annoying friends don't believe me. It was a close fight! xD
granite ether
I know, there's also a prophecy related to EM3 ^_^
austere stag
wait isnt EM3 for Asterius and Thesues?
granite ether
Yep
granite ether
All good
tiny grove
I mean
who cares prophecy at that point
the dialogue
is liquid gold
10/10 would play again
tame maple
Nope, no achievement for that, same reason as there's no achievement for skelly's 3rd prize statue
@granite ether I only just realised that the achievement is for 2nd Skelly prize, not 3rdI've been running 32 heat attempts for nothing!
brisk trail
I was just fighting the hydra and I had a maxed out Artemis gage
I nuked over half it’s health one hit
brisk trail
When you stick the hydra in a microwave it becomes a hungry man chicken tenders meal
knotty karma
@wheat kayak Oh, hey, Hax. I was recommended Hades, and now I am falling REALLY hard back into the Roguelike genre. I actually fired up Brigador again. You might like Beacon and Jupiter Hell, too - it helps the Beacon devs are A) also big into 80s snythwave Carpenter-inspried action, B) friends with the Brigador crew.
I actually started writing some Brigador-ized Hades lore. Might make Zagreus a runaway from Inner Colony\Outer Colony nonsense with the help of the SNC.
austere jacinth
I've never considered myself ability fan of rougelikes, but Hades is enough to make me reconsider.
peak furnace
hiya, easy question. does a farming run (lower heat) break your streak?
analog sentinel
Finally triggered ||epilogue||, 100% steam achievements 
brisk trail
@peak furnace nope, I've farmed darkness a couple of times in 0 Heat in between Heat runs, still counts
peak furnace
awesome, thanks. I don't care if they get counted or not I just didn't want to lose it haha
fallen crow
Hello, i am thinking about getting the game, does it have good endgame gameplay? Like can i get hundred or so hours of gameplay without getting bored? Also, do they update the game and add stuff regularly?
mortal flax
do you like the feel of live die repeat? Also have you played transistor,
fallen crow
I haven't played transistor, and i suppose i would like that, i enjoy repetition.
brisk trail
does it have good endgame gameplay?
Yes.
do they update the game and add stuff regularly?
No. But even with current content, it's more than enough to go for hundreds of runs.
mortal flax
Then you might like Hades. I'm pretty sure I've finished the main story... At least I've seen the credits and there's still a frick ton for me to do
fallen crow
So they wont add anything?
wild helm
We don’t know for sure
brisk trail
Don't know for now. The dev said they're taking a big break after recent 1.0 launch.
mortal flax
I don't think so? There's somewhere on here that talks about that.
Same as everyone else. Idk
fallen crow
So there is a campaign?
wild helm
Typically Supergiant doesn’t release DLC, but this game is immensely popular and people would definitely love some more content
brisk trail
Yes
mortal flax
Yes....
brisk trail
It's not just mindless rinse and repeat, every runs progress the story forward.
brisk trail
Yes, it's best to NEVER skip the dialogues.
mortal flax
ANY of the Dialouges.
austere jacinth
The story and characters are my fave part of the game.
amber cloak
Wait does Second Wind straight up not work with Hera aspect?
fallen crow
How many hours about can you put into the game?
tiny grove
♾️
wise sparrow
only 1
void vigil
I have over 300, but I know some people here have even more
fallen crow
My only worry is that they don't update the game
analog sentinel
I have about 84 hours and I completed the achievements 100%
Can easily play more but I’m going to take a break since I rushed the game
slender linden
they were updating the game for almost 2 years while it was in early access
at some point games just have to be done
tiny grove
I think it's reasonable to expect that content levels will be rather low post release. But if there's enough interest they may be tempted to make an expansion, like an act 5 in olympus or something
slender linden
that'd be neat, for sure. they're a mainly narrative studio so i wouldn't expect like, a sequel, or infinite updates. Hades is already at like 20k dialogue lines
tiny grove
ya ofc, there has to be financial incentive at the end of it for them to do so
It's a great work of art and love of an indie studio, but these guys still have to pay bills and eat food
narrow hemlock
worth noting that a lot of the hope for continued content comes from the fact that other roguelikes/lites do that so it's kind of an inherent expectation for the genre. but hades isn't striving to deliver an experience like many of those games and uses the mechanics to aid in its storytelling.
fallen crow
So is there a lot of stuff? Like i know there a boons, how many are there?
knotty karma
Belated, but the other roguelikes I supported out of EA - Brigador, Beacon, Teleglitch, Jupiter Hell - they all took, like, two+ years to finish.
weary yacht
does dodge stack?
slender linden
i think the better question to ask is 'is it fun?', not 'how much stuff is in it?'. and to answer that question, there's a really well done replayability loop (even if for some reason you're not that much into the story) that makes you itching for more no matter how much time you spent in game already @fallen crow
zealous galleon
I'm trying to get used to other weapons right now, I'm playing with the spear and it's pretty fun
fallen crow
Ok, well any game can be labeled as fun I'm trying to determine that. That's why I ask these questions.
slender linden
hmm... in that case, sometimes the same boon can play much differently with two different weapons. so there's also this aspect of playstyle exploration
weary yacht
does dodge stack?
keen crescent
Yea, dodge stacks
zealous galleon
i desperately want more hades content 😭
brisk trail
We all do.
brisk trail
What's your weapon/set-up?
tiny grove
i desperately want more hades content 😭
@zealous galleon
Me= the guy waving monies TAKE IT
quaint hatch
We're all kinda waving money's xD
Guess we just gotta wait 2-3 years for the next SGG Banger
tiny grove
how much money to kickstart hades expansion
brisk trail
They've been consistently releasing games every 3 years since 2011. My god.
AAA studios sometimes take 5 and they release flops.
brisk trail
This is what happens when you take care of your staff and the people making decisions on the games want a good game, not just a good-selling one.
tiny grove
Amen to that
random plume
Dood look at the boon
random plume
Although Lightning Strike is better.
tiny grove
then all the behind the scenes came out in public
tiny grove
I mean
crunch time is meant to imply last stretch
not an entire mode that lasts years
quaint hatch
It sucks that people give em a pass just cause they make games we like
It's like that in almost every major developer
tiny grove
I mean, some people give them a pass
brisk trail
This is why I want a company like SGG to basically grow into AAA size.
quaint hatch
BioWare, Ubisoft
quaint hatch
I don't
Indie is most of the times a bit more healthy for the people
With AAA comes more share and stakeholders
More demands, worse planning
zealous galleon
Guess we just gotta wait 2-3 years for the next SGG Banger
@quaint hatch I specifically only want more Hades though 😔
quaint hatch
Me too
sharp rain
Indie can crunch just as hard
quaint hatch
But ain't no reason to build up unrealistic expectations
brisk trail
I think with the internet and crowdfunding AAA budgets that aren't super overrun/majority spent on advertising can be done without major investors.
zealous galleon
What's your weapon/set-up?
@brisk trail not sure, I don't remember which boons I have but I do use the spear rn, the ||Achilles|| one
quaint hatch
I don't say it can't
I'm just saying usually it won't
Regular aspects aren't spoilers btw
sharp rain
it's just that nobody complains about indie crunch because they companies are so small that everyone is basically there because of their personal choices
tiny grove
Honestly, I think the main thing I find disconcerting about AAA
is they are basically only beholden to shareholders
brisk trail
If you're still waiting to select that Poseidon boon, Ocean's Bounty.
tiny grove
and it just makes sense that they aggressively buyout smaller companies
in order to keep spitting out games
in a corporatized environment
sharp rain
if you're making a game with 3 of your friends, you basically have to work all day every day or you go broke
quaint hatch
Lobbyism
Gotta love it
zealous galleon
You're already broke
sharp rain
@tiny grove not always - Microsoft gives their studios 100% creative control
quaint hatch
Ha can't take any money from me
tiny grove
it just hurts the industry, even as it drives up the value of the gaming industry
zealous galleon
And you're most likely still going to be broke after the game releases
quaint hatch
I have non
tiny grove
@sharp rain yes there are definitely exceptions
quaint hatch
@tiny grove not always - Microsoft gives their studios 100% creative control
@sharp rain X
sharp rain
is that a kiss or a no
tiny grove
When you make sweeping generalisations about something
zealous galleon
It's true, with Obsidian at least @quaint hatch
tiny grove
you tend to misrepresent the exceptions
quaint hatch
That's a "press x to doubt"
sharp rain
I've worked at an MS studio so...
sharp rain
go ahead and doubt me lmao
quaint hatch
Anecdotal evidence?
zealous galleon
I know people at Obsidian
sharp rain
they simply have so much money that trying to control a game studio would be counterproductive
zealous galleon
Can confirm what Murdre is saying
sharp rain
Microsoft could buy Sony and not notice it
quaint hatch
Why don't they?
sharp rain
because Sony wouldn't sell?
tiny grove
Wouldn't that also violate anti-monopoly laws?
zealous galleon
There is a difference between having enough money to buy a company and having enough money to spend, to buy a company
sharp rain
gamepass gives MS such a stable revenue source, and much bigger than boxed games, that all they care about is cranking out content, and not in the EA sense - in the "please make as much of your best stuff as you can" sense
tiny grove
yep, EA is pretty darn bad
zealous galleon
Microsoft is basically following the Netflix format of doing stuff
sharp rain
but also they don't condone crunch, or at least don't tell studios to crunch - Coalition for example crunches a lot regardless
quaint hatch
Netflix but good
Cause netflix be losing money
tiny grove
xD
zealous galleon
Netflix actually isn't losing money
Haven't for a few years
They're a few billion in debt but that debt is shrinking
sharp rain
pretty sure Xbox as a business is still losing money, but once enough people sign up for that xbox + gamepass subscription they'll be swimming
zealous galleon
Yeah
quaint hatch
I mean
What's a few billion right?
zealous galleon
That's the Netflix format
tiny grove
@sharp rain slight aside, how would you describe your time working for your studio?
if you don't mind
sharp rain
I'm not going to tell you which for obvious reasons
zealous galleon
Basically any streaming service really, you spent a ton of money for content and then earn that back through subscriptions
tiny grove
doesn't have to be specific studio ofc
sharp rain
generally MS was nothing but good since the buyout, but there weren't any substantial raises except for a customary bonus from the studio's founders
we stopped having to do work for hire
(50% of the studio had to do paid work in order to sustain our own IP's production)
quaint hatch
I find it funny that in the gaming industry in general people don't really speak about their conditions unless they're anonymous
zealous galleon
Sounds like a lot of Middle A/Double A dev studios
brisk trail
That's what happens when an industry with absolutely no labor protection grows.
sharp rain
it brought stability but also the studio's leadership turned super celebrity megalomaniac divas and the freedom + money went to their heads
so I left
sharp rain
not Microsoft's fault, the directors were always like that
brisk trail
It's basically the late 1800s but less Pinkertons and the work isn't physically dangerous.
sharp rain
just didn't have the freedom to let their cringe really fly
quaint hatch
Problem is that that is a possibility
So many lunatic leaders
zealous galleon
A lot of people would be surprised by how straight up unprofessional this industry is
brisk trail
That's why AAA SGG doesn't scare me.
sharp rain
yeah word
quaint hatch
At least you had the freedom to leave in your own accord
zealous galleon
There is no wide known standard of professionalism here
sharp rain
AAA SGG? did I miss some news?
quaint hatch
That's why AAA SGG doesn't scare me.
@brisk trail wtf what's that reasoning
brisk trail
The thought of*
brisk trail
Amir and Greg are way too chill.
sharp rain
if Tencent buys them they'd probably make mobile ports on release
brisk trail
They'll keep the studio running right.
sharp rain
that's pretty much it
quaint hatch
You dunno how money and bigger scale will change a studios structure
Until it does
I'd rather not trust in a studio anymore (blindly)
zealous galleon
Even Amir and Greg could change with a lot of fame and money, I think
brisk trail
You're right.
zealous galleon
Not that they have of course
fierce radish
Are the rooms in the Erebus not supposed to level up the keepsake Pierced Butterfly? I'm not getting a bonus per room cleared without taking damage.
quaint hatch
I'm not saying they will
zealous galleon
But then again we don't really work at SGG so how would we even know
weary yacht
how do you unlock the hidden hearts of the gods of Olympus?
quaint hatch
Rng
tiny grove
Thank you @sharp rain
sharp rain
@weary yacht keep talking to them
tiny grove
that was illuminating, at least somewhat
quaint hatch
For chaos it's a quest ||connected to nyx||
weary yacht
so i dont have to get their keepsake to 3 stars?
sharp rain
I agree the industry is pretty much in its teens
if it was a person it could do a job but it'd still be fked in the head
there are new studios popping up with leadership who used to be middle management at the well known ones
people who learned from mistakes of their bosses
quaint hatch
Its young and growing way too fast
sharp rain
and those people need investment which is why I'm not super wary of big money in games
it's either that or cult of personality
or the occasional indie miracle
like, I'd rather be at a Tencent backed studio who hired the right unsung heroes than working for a toxic 90's gamedev guru
as long as they've got the right idea it's cool, and if it doesn't work out you can take your money and experience and go
without a string of twitter haters sending you death threats
quaint hatch
Tencents buisness model is kind of iffy tho
sharp rain
I haven't worked for them so I can't really speak to that
just putting it there as an example
don't see anything wrong with them tho, heard they're pretty hands-off
although they did manage to make league of legends way more aggressive with their MTX
tiny grove
Death threats is a yikes
quaint hatch
I'm less talking about working model and more about game monetization and addiction loops
tiny grove
What's your worst experience in the industry? No names needed ofc
sharp rain
I'm not known or publicised or anything so I haven't had any abuse
that last 2 years at my last job were pretty infuriating
re. the leadership
tiny grove
I see
sharp rain
but so far I've had an okay time
tiny grove
Good and effective leadership
quaint wind
this conversation is a bit more suited to #video-games
tiny grove
is ofc important in any sort of setup
quaint hatch
That seems to be a point of contention most if the time
Ok bois time to shift rooms
tiny grove
That's fair, shall we move over there @sharp rain
sharp rain
@quaint wind sorry I just walked into it and started rambling lol
tiny grove
You can blame me it's ok
sharp rain
actually just wanted to say that the Rail's hidden aspect + athena special is bonkers
they deflect things all the time or at least when they pulse
just a bit awkward to place
balmy ginkgo
my progress isnt per-aspect right? its per werapon?
sharp rain
yes
quaint hatch
That's the only way to make the special not bad
sharp rain
although you'll want to level up any other aspects to make them good enough for the heat you've reached
tiny grove
Yah those pulse things are super useful to apply multiple times
quaint hatch
Depending on the aspect
tiny grove
I like Demeter for that Q as well
quaint hatch
The attack is better at that tho
tiny grove
true
quaint hatch
Like 200% better
tiny grove
I'm a big fan of Demeter end of story
quaint hatch
And I mathed that out
tiny grove
who am I kidding
sharp rain
oh yeah this was literally my first run on it, I had Demeter attack + cast w/stacks + the 10 stack explosion
quaint hatch
I like chill
tiny grove
appreciate your research on it
quaint hatch
Just zeus attack
sharp rain
I'm more of an Ares boi
quaint hatch
That's the answer to all rail questions
sharp rain
- the oneshot aspect
quaint hatch
Hestia
sharp rain
yeah
sharp rain
you can cancel the reload with the dash
sharp rain
once you get into a rhytm you will grow calluses on your fingers by the time you lose a run
I don't like Artemis because you need 2-3 boons imo to make the RNG work for you
quaint hatch
Unless you're playing with default layout on controller
Then guns feels baad
quaint hatch
But it does more damage then
sharp rain
makes way more sense considering you almost never use the summon
quaint hatch
Also support fire always good in rail
sharp rain
well not on Hestia
quaint hatch
I just remapped it to L
sharp rain
I had it on Lucy
quaint hatch
Makes even way more sense since you don't need the codex on an easy to reach button
Since you won't use it in combat
sharp rain
true
sharp rain
btw I love that when you approach a boon and press codex it automatically opens the page for that god
tiny grove
yeah
sharp rain
same for all other characters
tiny grove
it's really nice streamlining
sharp rain
the value of good UX
sharp rain
it's crazy, there are games that I love but can see glaring flaws in them
tiny grove
I mean
sharp rain
like, say, Witcher 3 has terribly balanced combat
tiny grove
once you've worked in the industry
sharp rain
but some games like Hades or Titanfall 2
tiny grove
i'm sure these things glare like nobody's busines
sharp rain
they're just mwah
quaint hatch
I want TF3
tiny grove
W3 was really good and all
tiny grove
but the combat was a junkyard
sharp rain
yeah it's usually the result of the studio's founders getting lucky with a product and then acting like their word is gospel
tiny grove
it had pieces of semi functional things
sharp rain
and/or corporate overreach from your overlords
sharp rain
and an inverted difficulty curve lmao
tiny grove
W3 was a storytelling rpg
so I think it's fine that the combat wasn't mega refined
mods made up for that as well
sharp rain
true, but I refuse to use that as an excuse if combat is like 75% of a game
tiny grove
I imagine you're quite perfectionist then
sharp rain
if you don't need to make the combat good then why do you have so much of it?
not really, just... you know, make the good things stand out
I realise you can't make a game the best in every aspect
sharp rain
true
sharp rain
it's still an 8-9 in my book
tiny grove
that mods can fix these issues
it infuriates me when AAA games actively block the modding community
from fixing their issues for them
tiny grove
whoops
brisk trail
Starting to get off-topic again.
knotty karma
Actually, has Supergiant talked about mods? I know Transistor was mod-friendly.
sharp rain
I was gonna go cook anyway, laters
tiny grove
thanks man
quaint hatch
Np
dapper mango
having lot of fun with hades gonna play lot more i love how much room there is for increasing difficulty and progressing
quaint wind
it is nice that hades has such a variety of difficulty that works for a lot of different play styles
god mode is the only way i can play this game lmao
dapper mango
what does god mode do exactly?
tiny grove
I just find it fascinating that a lot of the balance of rooms and boons and mirror talents
dapper mango
i play in hell mode lul
quaint hatch
Damage reduction
quaint hatch
Up to 80%
dapper mango
ok
quaint hatch
Scaling with death
dapper mango
its nice that there is a variety of settings like that
i rly like having hell mode too
i might actually progress a save slot on non hell mode too
or make some new game challenges like that
tiny grove
It's great to have difficulty scaling to suit everyone
Although Hell mode
it's insane how much you miss that invuln shield on big damage
dapper mango
true but on the other hand you have a dodge with invincibility frames always at hand and such so
tiny grove
oh I just meant that when I first played it I didn't realise it was doing work
I'm much better about just avoiding the damage in the first place now
dapper mango
right
dashes with invincibility is the mechanic i kinda avoid in games kinda had a dislike for it but i love hades anyway
velvet grail
I'm a noob who is now getting to Elysium. Looking for tips on what I should be focusing my efforts on.
tiny grove
that I-frames are a good and balanced mechanic
some of the chambers feel like total BS when you are learning
quaint hatch
Tools like that give a game the possibility to throw a lot more at you and still make it feel doable
tiny grove
then you figure out your tools
quaint hatch
Gungeon f.e.
dapper mango
yeah its definitely not too easy, and there is still room for sequences that aren't just dash - quick attack - dash - quick attack
i think the thing that dash with invincibility tend to remove a bit is the nuance to movement in general
tiny grove
I think though if they didn't have i frame on dash
you'd literally have athena dash s tier
and everything else dog tier
dapper mango
yeah its all balanced around that
quaint hatch
I'm a noob who is now getting to Elysium. Looking for tips on what I should be focusing my efforts on.
@velvet grail there's a new player build guide pinned in #h1-for-new-players that might help you with builds since they're an important tool to succes
tiny grove
e.g. demeter dash
would be so bad without the i frame
cuz proper application involves going in
dapper mango
yeah why not i mean in this game its all well designed around that
tiny grove
well done to them honestly
dapper mango
somebody mentioned witcher 3 before
tiny grove
@quaint hatch upstanding community member
quaint hatch
@velvet grail If you have further questions just ask away in that channel also
dapper mango
like that yeah exactly
quaint hatch
dapper mango
it doesnt scale well etc there are some pretty real issues
tiny grove
yah
dapper mango
but still great game and good concept
quaint hatch
Also thx m8
velvet grail
cool, appreciate. I randomly picked up this game the other night and holy moly it's crack!
but I need direction lol
quaint hatch
It's addictive yeah
dapper mango
its great i love it
tiny grove
Worst thing about this game
velvet grail
I've heard a few places that just working on the mirror is a good start
quaint hatch
Yeah the permanent upgrades help a lot
tiny grove
is that it lacks anti-poopsocking measures
quaint hatch
And learning the game mechanics and patterns is a big thing too
tiny grove
quaint hatch
Most important thing is learning the game and learning builds imo
tiny grove
nah
velvet grail
I think I understand core mechanics but comboing boons and trinkets is a tad confusing
tiny grove
most important thing
quaint hatch
Also patience is a virtue
tiny grove
is to accept that death is part of the natural cycle of this game
dapper mango
learning the enemies attacks
quaint hatch
Codex is a very important tool for planning builds
velvet grail
I have zero paatience, which makes this game greata becaause dying is part of the game lol
tiny grove
and not to tilt just because you have a cursed run
quaint hatch
You can see the gods boons there
velvet grail
right on
quaint hatch
But you need the extended codex from the contractor
tiny grove
the rng in this game is limited, but sometimes you will just feel like your build is completely backwards
that's normal
quaint hatch
For every other question just ask specifics ^^
tiny grove
just try to remember your keepsakes and your ability to control your own progression
there's a lot of agency at every single level of this game
velvet grail
agaency, great word
ruby wadi
quaint hatch
First two stages is where you wanna have you build mostly done
But for that you have to learn the games tools to control rng
And aquire them from the mirror
So don't sweat it too much
tiny grove
there's also
quaint hatch
Yeah since isaac I'm grateful for any control I get
tiny grove
literally no shame in taking the game at your own pace
some people beat the game after 50 runs
i bought the game for a friend
who beat it on their 3rd run
🤔
tiny grove
i mean
velvet grail
yaaa, not concerned with "beating" the game
velvet grail
just want to make sure I have goals in mind when playing
tiny grove
the goal is to enjoy yourself
quaint hatch
And dota basically is the same as hades gameplay wise
tiny grove
explore the game and characters
quaint hatch
So that explains it all
tiny grove
love the immersion
velvet grail
right right
tiny grove
who cares if you die
hoary canopy
And kill
quaint hatch
No spoilers
quaint hatch
Is there so escape?
tiny grove
there is no escape
tiny grove
nope
hoary canopy
Tiny escape
tiny grove
NO ESCAPE
quaint hatch
Hades is how I feel when going outside of my house during corona
tiny grove
i will have ♾️ hours in hades
hoary canopy
Mood
tiny grove
you left your house during corona?
quaint hatch
Dammit
tiny grove
that's weak
tiny grove
join me in my hades marathon
quaint hatch
I'm writing in the discord instead of runs
I'm smart
tiny grove
disclaimer: I may play other games during my hand spasms
rough ivy
...would spring/summer!demeter look young and cute? 
zealous galleon
i have a feeling that the RNG in this game isn't actually like random
tiny grove
thanks to playing too much Q spam
quaint hatch
She wouldn't look young
zealous galleon
like it's random sure but there are things you do in the game that influence the RNG later
quaint hatch
The definition of rng is random
hoary canopy
Shes the oldest
tiny grove
@zealous galleon i'm pretty sure there are skewed RNG
rough ivy
Ah ok
tiny grove
that is seeded
quaint hatch
There is no not random rng
zealous galleon
yeah that's what I think Glimmer
tiny grove
my gf thinks the same
rough ivy
But gods don't die so why would they age unless they're specifically like the god of old age or whatever
tiny grove
and no i don't think it's confirmation bias
zealous galleon
well no @quaint hatch
tiny grove
although you can never be sure of that
quaint hatch
Idk cause if hardships or they choose to
zealous galleon
RNG means random number generation as in it the game gives you a random number as a value or seed and that's your run, and RNG isn't actually random
zealous galleon
it's not actually random though
velvet grail
does the updated codex from the contractor come lataer?
zealous galleon
because it can only choose between a certain amount of numbers
velvet grail
I don't see the option
tiny grove
it feels like it's not fully random
quaint hatch
Games tweak that so it feels less unfair fo us
tiny grove
like not true random like other roguelikes
hoary canopy
Yeah it's not actually random
It's random if you don't control it
tiny grove
not precisely
quaint hatch
You don't need to tell that to me
I was the one arguing that yesterday or the day before
tiny grove
random probably means in this context that there isn't weighting
to any particular boon
quaint hatch
I was saying the definition of rng itself is random numbers
Not disagreeing with you
tiny grove
Nobody really means true random when they talk on these servers do they
hoary canopy
Nope
zealous galleon
well the game isn't actually like "random" random anyway because it can only let you do a certain number of things and the way the game chooses between stuff is limited
quaint hatch
There is no true random coming from humans
zealous galleon
but it's also not random as in that you can't control it, because you definitely can control it
tiny grove
i mean people use RNG as a shorthand for randomisation algorithms
zealous galleon
i agree vo1di
tiny grove
true random doesn't exist in games cuz computers can't do true random, just as a clarification for anyone who's curious
hoary canopy
I don't feel like thats true
quaint hatch
Well in games there's also different concepts of luck
Ever heard of input and output randomness?
hoary canopy
Im pretty sure you can tell a computer to pick something based on average/ percent
tiny grove
@hoary canopy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation#"True"_vs._pseudo-random_numbers
quaint hatch
Random calcs are programmed by humans and the "random" is only between set parameters
Which makes it not truly random
tiny grove
I should be more precise
quaint hatch
Since it adheres to rules
tiny grove
Computers CAN use true random, when sources are offered
but more often than not
it's simpler and less resource intensive
to use a pseudorandom algorithm to generate results that are not true random
but simulate it well enough
quaint hatch
But the sources offered will always be limited in scope
quaint hatch
Just have a computer only for random numbers kappa
quaint hatch
On your not rng calculating pc obviously
tiny grove
GENIUS
quaint hatch
Pfft amateur
tiny grove
I'm gonna quickly switch my bitcoin farmer
quaint hatch
Jk
quaint hatch
Just get 3 pcs
tiny grove
what, am i comprised entirely of gemstones?
quaint hatch
If you're homeless
Just buy a house
tiny grove
PFFF
tiny grove
honestly, you get used to it
balmy ginkgo
the bull is fine
tiny grove
my gf beats it all the time without death defy
balmy ginkgo
the blocking though
tiny grove
i mean
quaint hatch
Theseus is so easy
tiny grove
it's exactly the same as the shieldbearers
quaint hatch
Throws a spear and then always turns it's back to you
tiny grove
theseus is the easy part of the fight
hoary canopy
Just don't forget to say hi to your biggest fan
full zenith
Hey, how do i give ambrosia to someone ? (artemis)
zealous galleon
Theseus is the hard part for me imo
zealous galleon
true but I'm used to shield where I can easily block both his attacks
im playing with spear rn and I have to like, think
zealous galleon
It's not as easy to dodge his spear throw and/or spin attack
quaint hatch
He will always walk away from you after throw
tiny grove
||honestly I kinda feel like Theseus in EM3 is actually easier than without, cuz once you kill Asterius all of his moves are a joke and he restores to God call phase at 33% hp||
zealous galleon
without my shield
zealous galleon
see this is why I've always been saying shield is so easy
tiny grove
To give Ambrosia to ANY character, you need to fulfil prior conditions
zealous galleon
because all the hard attacks you can litterally just dodge + it gives you a free dash attack
quaint hatch
Only way is to learn the patterns
hoary canopy
After giving enough nectar and a side quest of sorts you'll be able to give ambrosia
tiny grove
you know the spear from theseus
full zenith
side quest ?
tiny grove
actually theseus ing eneral
is basically the movesets from the hallway fights
the shieldbearer and archer
narrow hemlock
re: rng factors in hades #h1-discussion message
quaint hatch
@full zenith I already answered the question in #h1-for-new-players read there
Only a couple messages up
tiny grove
Asterius is dealt with in a similar way to cartys
and in fact if you go back to previous acts
you'll realise that hallway fights often prepare you for their corresponding bosses
quasi olive
Hi everyone, quick question: what's needed to discover the "last" Olympian divinity (no spoil intended)?
tiny grove
play more
quaint hatch
Reach the final boss
tiny grove
xD
quasi olive
oh, ok, that's more accurate, thanks! : p
quaint hatch
So basically what dawn said
quasi olive
hehe
quasi olive
thanks both! : )
quaint hatch
No worries
You'll get there in time
full zenith
Yeah but it doesn't explain what do i need to do (i'm not a native speaker too)
quaint hatch
The quest is character specific
tiny grove
honestly i don't see a need to spoil something that early in progression
but i getcha
quaint hatch
For the olympian gods it's just random dialogue
quasi olive
oh I got there, just finished the main quest today actually, was just wondering for my partner
tiny grove
he'll get there soon enough you know?
hoary canopy
Just keep playing and picking up the gods boons
full zenith
ok
tiny grove
||if someone was asking about companions i could understand more||
but personally i see no need to explain something that happens after first clear
tiny grove
rgr
quaint hatch
I don't want to spoil either
But it's up to the players how much they want to know
tiny grove
is that sufficient? i apologise i am slightly inebriated
tiny grove
ez
quaint hatch
Tagging the word even would be enough
quaint hatch
It takes a bit to learn
General rule is everything post styx in new player channel
It's a bit more liberal here
tiny grove
thanks
tiny grove
gl
quaint hatch
F you then
tiny grove
:O
quaint hatch
tiny grove
quaint hatch
I know how good I am and to that I can say: no
quaint hatch
I have to clear every heat level with every weapon
hoary canopy
Bouldy just wants a warm hug
tiny grove
we'll see where we can go from there
quaint hatch
Bouldy is the love of my life
tiny grove
yikes
hoary canopy
That will take a very long time
tiny grove
uh
hoary canopy
Bouldys a love
quaint hatch
Everyone is second class to Bouldy
tiny grove
a rock
quaint hatch
SHES MORE THAN A ROCK HOW DARE YOU
tiny grove
and your partner isn't gonna see the subtlety to that
quaint hatch
|| ||
weary yacht
does dogde stack?
tiny grove
yes, people said yes earlier
quaint hatch
Dodge is multiplicative
weary yacht
huh
quaint hatch
Sec imma throw up the calc
dodge is: (1-x%) * (1-x%) * (1-x%)
each dodge percentage you aquire gets counted seperately and multiplied
So you can't get a 100% dodge
tiny grove
so 30%, 10% and 5% would be 0.7 x0.9 x0.95
quaint hatch
If will just seperately accrue the chances of you not getting hit
tiny grove
which would be 59.85% in case you were wondering
multiplicative can never ever reach 100%
it can get very close
but it will tend to 100 but never reach it
hoary canopy
Still fun though going a dodge build
quaint hatch
Btw damage resistance is similar to that
hoary canopy
Just face tank
tiny grove
I kinda feel like taking care of your damage output is more important than just dodging
but yknow
quaint hatch
But it's fun just going
"Well you hit me, but actually you didn't"
tiny grove
there should be a voiceline for that in the last fight
quaint hatch
There are voice lines for an insane amount of situations
Hit redacted with a dio attack f.em
hoary canopy
Me running ||zag fists with ruthless reflex and hermes keepsake|| say sike
My ears would bleed
tiny grove
let's just agree
hoary canopy
Scaling damage pog
hoary canopy
Fair
quaint hatch
If I only had the authority too
tiny grove
It's ok i just assume that all the SGG peepz are on extended vacation
quaint hatch
This is communism
We're all worth nothing
tiny grove
post release :)
quaint hatch
Finally got a second persuasion
dusty path
Good morning my fellow crawlers
tiny grove
ah
dusty path
Lol. Where u from?
tiny grove
poseidon sword
quaint hatch
Pah peasant
He asked where I'm from
And I said germany
Don't know what you're reading
quaint hatch
Ah a real man I see xD
quaint hatch
I'm not specifying
tiny grove
fair enough
tiny grove
xd
quaint hatch
Nice zag just said himself "I'm the god of blood"
dusk mantle
Zag should be god of perseverance. seeing how many runs he does xD
quaint hatch
I love how chaos is always vaguely wholesome towards Zagreus
tiny grove
every player who clocks 100+ hours is the god of perseverance
quaint hatch
I will get there
Not like a got a choice
Game has it's grips on me
tiny grove
when i'm 80+ or whatever i'll be like i already accepted my death
dusk mantle
i'm at 154 hours
quaint hatch
Unironic goty
dusty path
The gameplay and story are fantastic
dusk mantle
voice acting is the best
quaint hatch
Also probably goat for me but hard to say if I'm (probably) still quite far from dying
dusty path
Voice acting is shockingly strong
Even the audio mixing itself is exceptional
It’s hard to make those aspects stick out in a game
But this game has it in spades
And the polish on animations is at Nintendo levels of quality
dusk mantle
I honestly can't think of a single character's voice which I think could've been done better or differently or which doesn't suit the character. I usually don't care for these aspects, but this game is different.
dusty path
It’s crazy to me how indie games have become the forefront of creativity
And they do it with far less resources
I think human beings just operate more intelligently when forced to operate within constraints
quaint hatch
Yeah in hades everything is great
Even the community
dusk mantle
I think with big companies, they lose focus on what's important often.
dusty path
I think when anything is possible from a financial, and logistics standpoint, it can be hard to find proper focus
When People have to operate within boundaries and limitations, magic happens. Look at the creativity level in the eight bit and 16 bit eras
dusk mantle
Simply throwing money at a problem, there comes a point of diminishing returns.
dusty path
Very true
dusk mantle
Anyway, I'm glad SGG did such a great job on Hades.
tepid plover
Hey vo1di
dusty path
Me too. I was looking for something to play after being blown away by dead cells, and I couldn’t be happier with Hades
dusk mantle
I played Dead Cells a bit, but didn't grind as much as I'd have liked.
Sick game tho.
dusty path
This game is so good it honestly makes me feel like I should revisit transistor after abandoning that game when it didn’t grab me early on
It’s obvious this company views their games as passion projects, not just games
dusk mantle
I never tried any SGG game besides Bastion.
frozen ice
aspect of ||arthur|| is stupid easy
dusk mantle
I did || EM4 Last boss || with that aspect @frozen ice
i'm sure it hits its limit with higher heat
I don't know what the "meta" at say 32 heat is like. But at like 11 heat, it's great xD
quaint hatch
Lol just doing a poseidon parting shot build
Beat first boss in 15 secs
Nice
velvet grail
Welp got to Styx, died in the second chamber. That poison is no joke
quaint hatch
Hey man
Already got out of elysium
Awesome!
You know there's pools that cure you of the poison in every room?
velvet grail
ya but hard to see, line up with in battle
I'm sure I'll get more used to it
I got really lucky this run and had insdane defense
Need to choose which gods to gift so I can start planning better
quaint hatch
Already read the guide pinned in #h1-for-new-players ?
If you're a beginner I would ask there for further build tips
Because #h1-builds-and-combat and is spoiler zone
velvet grail
cool cool
tiny grove
that act is super annoying to be sure
zealous galleon
I love this game but some of these mechanics are filled with uh
How do you describe it
bs-ery
tiny grove
i mean
zealous galleon
The poison oh god
zealous galleon
True
tepid plover
Stagger
tiny grove
insane mirror talents
zealous galleon
I've died more times to that lava in asphodel than to the final boss
tiny grove
btw
tepid plover
Then dont step on it
tiny grove
i find it astounding
tepid plover
past mirage
We need a hypnos emote for talk like this
tepid plover
zealous galleon
Yeah fr lmao
tepid plover
We need an emote for everyone's
zealous galleon
weary yacht
||is it worth taking back all my darkness from the mirror so i can make nyx and chaos met?||
tepid plover
You respec the mirror
mortal flax
is that the option at the bottom or is it a contractor thing
mortal flax
ahhhhh. ok
narrow hemlock
yes
tepid plover
If you have darkness yes
zealous galleon
Ah okay good