Oh ok God of blood then
#h1-discussion
tepid plover
modest ledge
I mean
Hades is the god of the dead
Thanatos is the Psychopomp/Death avatar
and Zagreus becomes God of Rekilling dead people
silk remnant
Thanatos is the personification of Death, well according to the myth
technically, the psychopomp is Hermes
modest ledge
technically yes, though it's thanatos that transports them to the afterlife
tepid plover
God of family issues
modest ledge
what do you mean? he fixed all of his family issues by killing his dad over and over again
I'd say he's got the stablest family of the bunch
tepid plover
Yeah exactly, but the issues were there
modest ledge
and he has ZEUS in his family, man can't keep it in his pants
tepid plover
And it was a loooot of issues
modest ledge
I feel like hera gets overlooked when discussing issues
tepid plover
He even got friendzoned by ||disembodied gorgon head||
modest ledge
got raped by zeus as a bird being tricked
||oi, that ain't a friendzone, that's a healthy platonic relationship||
||a friendzone would be zagreus becoming a incel||
tepid plover
Well he had other options to resort
modest ledge
or angry horny
tepid plover
Thats why
modest ledge
I wonder how old zag is at this point, I forgot if it's mentioned
tepid plover
By his issues, we can safely assume he's 18-19 
silk remnant
This game made me go read more about the myths and the gods these days, it sort of help me a bit in my other studies as well.
modest ledge
it's a blast to learn
tepid plover
I knew mostly everything before I played, and is that knowledge of mythology what got me into the gamd
Thats why I love smite as well
silk remnant
I got interested to the game because of the character design, like wowie that Nyx design I love her
modest ledge
btw
tepid plover
Big tiddy goth stepmom
modest ledge
is there any way to check how much blood I've invested in each weapon
modest ledge
balls
exotic lodge
balls math
tepid plover
Balls math balls
modest ledge
||I like that master chaos talks to me using the chaos|| shield
tepid plover
Same^
modest ledge
"care to accompany me"
"greetings"
tepid plover
"Perhaps this one" when rerolling
modern coral
yeah that's a cool touch
tepid plover
My fav is nemesis
modest ledge
I honestly need a quick and easy tier list to go of off, I saw jawless's one but it hasn't fully convinced me, I like reading more than listening lel
tepid plover
Tierlist will either be for extremely high heat/speedrunning
Or completely biased
Which is why I dont like them
modest ledge
I'd rather not overinvest into an aspect that is very much inferior to something better just because I felt like "this sounds horrible"
tepid plover
Unless you're trying to accomplish something in specific
tepid plover
Theres no inferior aspect
modest ledge
I read the description and went "man, this sucks"
then I used it
and I loved it
same could be said for secret aspect spear
"this sounds good with lifesteal"
"man this sucks"
I wasted too much blood on that
tepid plover
Theres no better weapon, unless you're speedrunnjng or doing 50 heat or smth
fallen torrent
I just cleared from the first time with the basic zag gloves
it's definitely possible to clear with whatever aspect
tepid plover
Correct
fallen torrent
just depends on ur pathong
tepid plover
Yep
fallen torrent
*pathing
modest ledge
my first clear was a braindead artillery build with rail
I just like powerful stuff
I get a feeling of fun being stronk
tepid plover
Lot of people say, oh but this weapon can clear without boons. In a normal run, you shouldn't be without boons
That doesn't make the weapon better
Unless you're trying to accomplish something, in this case: clear without boons
Then it is ok
quaint hatch
Invest in something you find fun and you can make work
If you wanna go "optimal" go eris or nemesis
wanton gale
I do put forth that shield/bow/gun tends to be safer and efficient
Athena deflect + bow/gun + the ranged attacks tend to do well and are faster than spear
static wadi
Good night people
lone jetty
i encountered a convenient bug in elysium where thanatos went off-map and got stuck there while i massacred the enemies. the downside was it took about 30 secs before the game figured out thanatos was outside and I cant approach him so he just dropped a max health at the usual spot, and disappeared while floating by the clouds
dreamy mauve
I dont know what happens if you lose to Than lol
static wadi
nothing
safe haven
you dont get the centaur increase and he makes a snarky comment
static wadi
u just dont have hp
@safe haven not when you become friends. He just says something like keep moving
tepid plover
if you lose to than you just dont get the centaur heart
dark sphinx
Hello, it seems that I don't have Chaos room anymore, is it cause I bought the thing for 5 diamonds?
static wadi
@dark sphinx no
erebus gate is erebus gate
and chaos gate is chaos gate
it totally different independet things
just unlucky
dark sphinx
Okok, I was wondering if it was linked, thank you
modest ledge
I find it funny using ||Hade's Call against him|| because you just yell out "father!" and he just responds with 'what?"
left sigil
Anyone know if there are any plans to add a lossless version of the soundtrack on Epic? It looks like the Steam soundtrack has FLAC files included and you can buy it lossless directly from Supergiant and on bandcamp so it's strange that EGS only gets MP3s
static wadi
@modest ledge there are more
sturdy phoenix
Sooo still no console release...
modest ledge
ah true
static wadi
try imgur
prisma tapir
Where can I report bugs? Just had extreme measures Theseus crash halfway into a northern wall when he form changed, becoming untargetable to everything but my God Call
static wadi
@prisma tapir f10 ingame
static wadi
tech support for switch users iirc
prisma tapir
f10, good to know, thanks
static wadi
yup good luck
zenith mauve
My point stands tho
Athena just says "screw it" and gives you the best upgrade in the game bar none right at the start.
static wadi
wait u can have 2nd pos legendary again?
barren ocean
Yea its a legendary so it still rare to get
fallen torrent
I think I just screwed myself
static wadi
but pos is my least fav god so it's not surprise
barren ocean
Ah fair
fallen torrent
Nemesis blade doesn't have enough DMG to deal with Charon early
barren ocean
Oh gl my man
static wadi
@fallen torrent spoilers
zenith mauve
Rare Fish is so hard
small tusk
Oof... Playing for the first time after the patch... Chiron bow deffo feels nerfed 🤔
barren ocean
the special?
small tusk
Ye
static wadi
@small tusk well no it has less dmg but more arrows
brazen stone
If you had the choice between Concentrated Knuckle, and Rush Kick, which would you pick up on Twin Fists? (No boons acquired yet).
barren ocean
🤔
small tusk
@small tusk well no it has less dmg but more arrows
@static wadi still feels nerfed...
toxic crest
rush kick is pog with demeter gauntlets
static wadi
so special for chiron is kinda ok
barren ocean
which aspect
fallen torrent
special for Chiron is fine
static wadi
it was nerfed for Hera and Zag
brazen stone
No aspect unlocked yet
fallen torrent
just get the 2 hammers for it and ur good
barren ocean
mmm then rush kick
static wadi
@small tusk just go Dio)
fallen torrent
4 more arrows and consecutive damage
barren ocean
personally
fallen torrent
ez clap for Chiron bow
toxic crest
Bow with zeus build is also pog
small tusk
Is the total chiron dmg the same with 8 arrows after the nerf as it was with 7?
static wadi
now u dont even need +4 arrow
flat vapor
no, it's still a nerf
barren ocean
also hello everyone
stable meadow
I have gone like 20 runs without getting bull bro mini boss for hidden aspect of fists
barren ocean
lmao
flat vapor
just slightly less of one than it would've been
fallen torrent
now u dont even need +4 arrow
@static wadi it's still the 2nd best hammer upgrade I'd take it on chiron at least for hades fight
toxic crest
+4 arrow with splitting bolt and zeus special tho
stable meadow
I have it just spawns the soul catcher more often
barren ocean
Spoiler tag @fallen torrent
static wadi
i say it not 100% neccessary
fallen torrent
SORRY
static wadi
cus 8 stacks with Aphro duo is right what i want
barren ocean
general rule is no endgame or postendgame spoilers
small tusk
Spoiler tag... Can't there just be a channel for those who haven't done a full run yet?
fallen torrent
true
barren ocean
This is general tho
small tusk
Too many things to tag
static wadi
@small tusk not much
fallen torrent
but ye I'll watch it from now on
barren ocean
Rules are rules
small tusk
Be reasonable
barren ocean
Its not hard to be considerate? lmao
small tusk
Rules are rules
@barren ocean yeah, doesn't mean rules always make sense
flat vapor
"things past first clear" is not that hard
brisk trail
Spoiler tag... Can't there just be a channel for those who haven't done a full run yet?
#h1-for-new-players
toxic crest
I think that i've done most everything so far in the game
small tusk
So there is one... How come we need spoiler tags again?
static wadi
@brisk trail what a coincidence
barren ocean
I think he means every where else can be no-spoiler
stable meadow
I'm playing on hell mode so that is completely in true onyx I can do well in dead cells and other games and this is still a challenge
barren ocean
Ohh dead cells
stable meadow
Fists are very hard to win with
brisk trail
So there is one... How come we need spoiler tags again?
that one, #h1-for-new-players , is for those who need help in gameplay, here is for discussing the story but nothing past the first clear
brazen stone
Oooh do I swap an Epic Lightning Strike for a Heroic Frost Strike on Fists 
fallen torrent
Fists are very hard to win with
@stable meadow that's just not true lol
tepid plover
Man I'm really loving the new death animation
barren ocean
Do you have complementary boons?
toxic crest
@tepid plover death animation?
brazen stone
Right near the start of the run
tepid plover
Yes
barren ocean
Hmmm
stable meadow
Yes I am running lots of Hermes and artims
queen wharf
Does Ricochet Fire have any restrictions? It's the last hammer I need for the Rail.
toxic crest
details plss
small tusk
that one, #h1-for-new-players , is for those who need help in gameplay, here is for discussing the story but nothing past the first clear
@brisk trail not exactly "general" then.
stable meadow
And Hermes artifact
static wadi
@toxic crest just end the run lol
brazen stone
Besides hammer lightning was my first boon, this is my possible second
barren ocean
Well think ahead then, which boon upgrades/complements do you like better, Demeter or Zeus?
tepid plover
details plss
It looks like the one from the trailer
toxic crest
@static wadi switch, no patch yet
flat vapor
on fists? keep zeus
fallen torrent
@stable meadow when running firsts I always take Athena boon first to get defect on either attack or dash
*fists
stable meadow
I haven't seen anything other then artimes , dio , Hermes , chaos
static wadi
@toxic crest oh sry
stable meadow
And I'm at third area
fallen torrent
it's important for damage mitigation
toxic crest
is it ||Hades'|| death or ||Zagreus'|| death?
brazen stone
Suppose I'll keep Zeus and take the Special
tepid plover
Zagreus
brisk trail
not exactly "general" then.
@small tusk you can discuss gameplay here, but again nothing past first clear, it’s just that this channel is mainly used to discuss the story
static wadi
@toxic crest he falls in the water and show 2 fingers from there
barren ocean
LOL a peace sign?
static wadi
@barren ocean y
barren ocean
XD
toxic crest
here's a question
barren ocean
whatsup
toxic crest
why does ||hades have red blood||
tepid plover
Why do we have red blood
small tusk
@small tusk you can discuss gameplay here, but again nothing past first clear, it’s just that this channel is mainly used to discuss the story :thonk:
@brisk trail so like... If I mention Chiron bow, is that a spoiler or nah? Some ppl unlock it before they finish a first run (it seems anyway), some after. There are a lot of variables in this game. Me and my gf are unlocking stuff at a different pace at the same number of runs.
toxic crest
||Hades is a god, and zagreus is specifically mentioned to be special for having mortal colored blood though.||
static wadi
@small tusk but it still avaliable
toxic crest
||come to think of it, Megaera has red blood too...||
static wadi
before
barren ocean
I mean what other colour would the blood be
stable meadow
Also do I need hiden aspect of spear( bought) to get hidden aspect of punchy fists conversation with bull bro
small tusk
@small tusk but it still avaliable
@static wadi but a spoiler to those who don't get it, eh?
brisk trail
@small tusk i would say it’s best to spoiler tag it if just to be considerate of others who haven’t unlocked it yet
toxic crest
well ||Tisiphone has green blood||
static wadi
@barren ocean gods blood is transparent
barren ocean
@stable meadow I do believe so, but exact details can be found in pins of #h1-story-discussion
small tusk
I'm just saying you can't think of everything to tag, it's a bit nonsensical, since the game has a lot of RNG
toxic crest
I thought Ichor was like golden
static wadi
@small tusk and asphodel is spoiler for those who didnt beat tartarus
stable meadow
Yes ichor is golden
small tusk
So basically everything is a spoiler and this channel makes no sense
barren ocean
Lmao if you're just gonna complain then dont talk
small tusk
Where does one draw the line
small tusk
Lmao if you're just gonna complain then dont talk
@barren ocean looking for logic and consistency is not "complaining" pal
static wadi
rules are not just for rules
small tusk
Its quite clear and consistent
@barren ocean i got chiron well after beating the final boss... Some say it's not a spoiler anyway. Consistency where?
static wadi
first of all think of PURPOSE of this rules
barren ocean
Chiron isnt endgame
small tusk
First run is like what, 15 runs?
small tusk
De-what-now?
static wadi
logic is u just dont ruin game for people telling lategame stuff
and u just looking for loopholes in this rules
small tusk
Logic is questioning the limits of "endgame" when it takes some people 15runs and some 50+ runs to get to the end once.
static wadi
for no reasons
small tusk
The unlocks are gonna be completely different
flat vapor
barren ocean
Lets jsut clear this up then
first 3 aspects of any weapon are good
4th aspects are spoiler
Cut and dry
if you have any further questions as to what is spoiler and what is not, you can just ask
small tusk
I think I'll just move to the spoilers channel and stay there. Makes more sense.
General isn't general
chilly stump
Hey thanks for having this discussion folks, I'm currently looking into changing our channel spoilers policy as we approach a month since the game's release, and it's good to see how folks are thinking about it.
flat vapor
we approach a month since the game's release
has... has it been that long?
chilly stump
It really has, it's the 14th here and we released on the... 17th !
static wadi
proud 400 here
cunning crest
there's still quite a bit for you story wise
static wadi
@neon mist u have much to discover
static wadi
@neon mist credits are not epilogue yet
small tusk
This might be a weird question to ask, but once you eventually get to the end credits of Hades, do you still get any story dialogue or content after or is simply fight, die, repeat with not much story or anything else?
@neon mist that's a spoiler...
barren ocean
Spoiler tag with || on both ends
tepid plover
even after epilogue you still have a lot to do
barren ocean
^^
neon mist
Oh, I just wanted to check
cunning crest
is that really a spoiler though? all he revealed is that there are end credits
small tusk
Spoiler police strikes again...
barren ocean
nah its cool
small tusk
is that really a spoiler though? all he revealed is that there are end credits
@cunning crest after 1st run? No?
barren ocean
just spoiler tag
chilly stump
There is post-credits content available, yes.
tepid plover
i think ovrkill is justa bit hurt
barren ocean
Lol
small tusk
I'm looking for consistency
tepid plover
yep he is
barren ocean
But yes after end credits there is lots to do
static wadi
wow game has an end what a spoiler)
barren ocean
story wise and otherwise
small tusk
It's not my fault the problem isn't obvious to some
neon mist
I just wanted to check, because Zagreus has become my third most favourite character in Gaming and I wanna spend as much time as I can with him
chilly stump
We're working on it, thank you for your patience. We found throughout early access that if we broke down spoilers past a certain "checkpoint" like a boss, it became incredibly granular and complicated.
barren ocean
there's lots more fun ahead Grumps! 😄
chilly stump
Now that we're done, we need to decide those points for the server, which becomes harder as folks get to the credits at various points in their run count, etc.
tepid plover
theres a looooooooooooooooooooooot of dialogue that has nothing to do with the main story
so yes
chilly stump
I have some ideas of how to handle it, so if you can weather a bit more of the doubt we'll have some information for you soon.
neon mist
I love Zagreus so much, it's unreal
small tusk
Now that we're done, we need to decide those points for the server, which becomes harder as folks get to the credits at various points in their run count, etc.
@chilly stump my point exactly! What takes some 15 runs to achieve takes others 50+, at which point you can no longer tell what's what for who. + the game is massive on RNG.
neon mist
So the game has a buttload of story content?
small tusk
So the game has a buttload of story content?
@neon mist yes
For many many runs to come
neon mist
I have decided that I will make Hades my first game on steam which i will go for full achivement completion
chilly stump
We can to a degree, with larger things like the Fated Prophecies and devices like that. At the end of the day there will always be folks who get confused or make mistakes on what's allowed, so ultimately it's less the job of the community to be the mediator on what's allowed, and more the community's job to stay patient and remember no one is spoiling things purposefully or causing problems out of malice.
And if they are it's usually obvious pretty quickly.
neon mist
I am sorry if i caused trouble.
chilly stump
No no Grump, you're all good.
That is a general note - when pockets of confusion come up, that's always the place that miscommunication and tone misreading can occcur.
So the most appreciated approach is a patient one, even if it can be frustrating.
small tusk
I was confused on chiron... Some say it's available before you get a full run, it wasn't the case for me. Case in point.
You just can't tell
neon mist
Hold on, sorry if I seem rude, but do you happen to be one of the main people working on Hades, Miss Caitlin?
chilly stump
I am a dev, that's correct!
small tusk
Red name = supergiant :)
chilly stump
Yeah exactly overkill, that's one of the considerations for us.
barren ocean
red=the gods themselves
chilly stump
Nothing like that, our mods and QA are closer to godliness. 😄
flat vapor
modern day olympians
neon mist
Wow, well, I wanna take the opportunity to thank someone from the dev team for creating such an amazing game. I haven't fallen for a game like this much since I have played the original Trilogy of Ace Attorney last year
deep pivot
To be honest, the 1st, 2nd & 3rd aspects of each weapon can't be considered spoilers since you can unlock them before completing a whole run and they don't reveal any story spoilers. The 4th aspect of each weapon do have spoilers and require more investment than the others.
small tusk
Yeah exactly overkill, that's one of the considerations for us.
@chilly stump i always felt like "general" should be what it sounds like - everything. And then new players (before 1st run finished) probably need their own space... Or something... It's hard with the RNG and skill differences
tribal glade
im still working on buying things for the house 🙂
small tusk
What I would like to buy is perhaps a physical copy for the Switch..?
nudge nudge, wink wink
tepid plover
if not im not missing any defiances, jerky is my go to from patroclus
static wadi
hp and DD useful for any run but attack stuff are less useless sometimes
small tusk
The attack one depends on the build. Very good for sword, not so much for, say, chiron xD
neon mist
It would also be nice if the possibility of psysical merchandise is taken in the future
static wadi
@tepid plover i mean i want to visit this guy for story progression but it useless for my run
tepid plover
i see what you mean now after what overkill said
yeah jerky is too situational from a point
granite ether
Something i think would be awesome (probably won't happen) is half the bonus but have it affect special and cast too
tepid plover
yeah like global dmg
static wadi
@granite ether or just passive bonus for any damage
uncut pendant
Has anyone unlocked the "Queen's Plan" Prophecy yet?
deep pivot
i always felt like "general" should be what it sounds like - everything. And then new players (before 1st run finished) probably need their own space... Or something... It's hard with the RNG and skill differences
@small tusk #h1-discussion is exactly for that, for general chatter about Hades. There's #h1-story-discussion if you want to discuss the story in detail or past certain points, there's #h1-builds-and-combat to discuss strategies and game mechanics, and there's #h1-for-new-players for newcomers.
static wadi
@uncut pendant working on it
uncut pendant
Thought it would be 5 bonds with the olympic gods, but nothing popped
do we know what the reqs are?
barren ocean
I got Queen's plan after a lot of friendship with the olympians
static wadi
or mb ||Hermes|| too
lunar cypress
Hrmn...I feel like Pos would be better if knockback effects triggered on ALL enemies even if they normally wouldn't be moved. Or something
barren ocean
You mean specially bosses in this case im assuming?
small tusk
@small tusk #h1-discussion is exactly for that, for general chatter about Hades. There's #h1-story-discussion if you want to discuss the story in detail or past certain points, there's #h1-builds-and-combat to discuss strategies and game mechanics, and there's #h1-for-new-players for newcomers.
@deep pivot all fine and dandy, but if you've ever had a real world conversation with people... Or run a server like I do... People don't tend to follow a box set of guidelines when they chat around. The conversation evolves as people come and go, people talk about different topics. That's why a spoiler-welcome general chat iwould be really good.
deep pivot
Having said that, there are people who haven't played Hades yet but want to talk about the game, which is why we try to protect this channel from spoilers that might ruin their experience. I hope you can understand.
uncut pendant
i suspect it's ||Demeter||
@static wadi hm. her bond requires the epilogue to be completed though, so can't be her
maybe hermes, he's an easy pickup so worth trying
static wadi
@uncut pendant oh rly? i didnt made epilogue yet(
uncut pendant
im fairly sure the prophecy is nudging people to get to the epilogue, im just not sure how many they need LOL
deep pivot
People who respect others do. I know I do, I know people on other servers who do and use spoiler tags even. Some have the consideration of saying "let's move to another channel". When a conversation "evolves" or gets derailed, common sense dictates that you should move along as well.
If you want a channel with spoiler-liberty, #h1-builds-and-combat when it comes to game's mechanics and #h1-story-discussion for discussing the story.
cunning crest
wait builds and combat is supposed to free of game mechanic spoilers?
small tusk
I wouldn't say I'm trying to be "inconsiderate" or anything, but one can call me "old" for my beliefs, I guess. Too much moderation is unnatural. Just my 2 cents. I'd very much welcome a general chat with no restrictions. Why wouldn't there be one? It's unnatural to box yourself into a channel if something pops into your mind, IMO.
wait builds and combat is supposed to free of game mechanic spoilers?
@cunning crest try and quantize that one
cunning crest
i thought that entire channel was dedicated to discussing game mechanics
small tusk
I just read the info of that channel and it says "spoilers allowed"
cunning crest
ah ok
small tusk
So I gues peach meant they are ok by "spoiler-free"?
Not the wording I would have used, but ah well
deep pivot
Sorry, I misworded it. Meant to say that you have the liberty to post spoilers in them 👍
(Else my post wouldn't make sense including the #h1-story-discussion channel)
small tusk
Eh, I'm gonna go back to playing. All I wanted to say that self-censorship with spoiler tags is not only unnatural, but hard to figure out due to the game's RNG, player skill differences and the fact that we humans are chatty and we say what pops into our minds without much thought behind it (maybe some do). Boxing yourself into 1 singular topic doesn't always work. A true general chat would be appreciated, is all.
And the spoiler tag thing - people spoil things here every day en-masse. It happens. Not because they're mean or "inconsiderate" - it's because of the aforementioned skill/rng differences and humans being humans.
You can't patrol everything with an iron fist
And I'm glad Caitlin popped-by to acknowledge it 👍
gleaming sparrow
What chat would be most appropriate for memes
static wadi
what is it about 7:48?
flat vapor
there's a bunch pinned in that channel too
tepid plover
what is it about 7:48?
thats the time
static wadi
...now it's clear
tepid plover
.
flat vapor
i like to think that sgg just randomly chose 7:48 as the time and now people are endlessly scouring for some type of meaning
tepid plover
Yep still 7:48
static wadi
@cunning crest i just sell them if i find
flat vapor
using fated authority to reroll away boons, selling away boons you're forced to take, not using any abilities that have boons on them while you still have them
using shattered shackle
uncut pendant
what achievement is that for? o_O
static wadi
@uncut pendant all trinkets max lvl
uncut pendant
ahh
tepid plover
cool idea for people with lots of currency, something like an arcade machine or a slot machine that we can play at the house
winter mirage
Does anyone know if the boon "Blood Frenzy" (do more damage after using death defiance for the encoutner) stack? Like if you use all three defiances you do 90% extra damage?
tepid plover
wait not that ive noticed anyway
north swallow
sand stump
I want to look at the ||sunset|| again
fringe garnet
has anyone experienced late-game EM4 SPOILERS ||what hypnos says if cerberus kills you?|| i really really want to hear this but i DO NOT want to experience it
tepid plover
I want to look at the ||sunset|| again
THISSSSS why cant I visit the house again????????
cunning crest
I miss it so much
winter mirage
||can cerberus actually kill you?||
fringe garnet
THISSSSS why cant I visit the house again????????
@tepid plover same
tepid plover
Well if you're low enough yes
fringe garnet
||can cerberus actually kill you?||
@winter mirage in em4.
tepid plover
It does like 45 dmg
winter mirage
lol really
winter mirage
static wadi
well u better have 2nd sack for that
sand stump
He is dad companion lol
static wadi
well yes
sand stump
That should be the reward for em4 i think
static wadi
plushy cerb
sand stump
But it is odd to see 2 cerb fight
fringe garnet
it can be like the others who don't trigger on their respective fights
tepid plover
you cant use in the final boss
sand stump
You can use other companion, so notbeing able to use that one is odd
fringe garnet
companion spoilers ||you can't use meg when fighting meg. this would be just like this.||
sand stump
Oh í see
tepid plover
Yep
winter mirage
||use meg to fight meg: trust no one not even yourself||
tepid plover
Lmfao
sand stump
I never try ||Battie|| in Meg fight
tepid plover
You cant
sand stump
It appear to late for me to have Meg as a hard fight
static wadi
btw what does ||meg or dusa|| say if u use Fidi vs her?
sand stump
Unless i throw the fight, it is hard to lost more than 1 DD
tepid plover
Only time I lost a dd once I learned the game to meg was I had chaos curse cant attack
With stygius
quartz ivy
quick q about high heat
static wadi
@quartz ivy nope u cant have all bounties at once
quartz ivy
what
I'm at like, 11? i think? for rail. If I jump to 50 and finish it, will I no longer be able to get rewards from earlier heats?
static wadi
u can
flat vapor
you can go back
opaque orbit
okay I finally went through and won a run with the other mirror of night dash upgrade
flat vapor
heat is fully customizable
flat vapor
you can play at 0 heat if you wanted, or go up to the max of 63/64 heat, without penalties
quartz ivy
it kind of poorly explains it when you first unlock it. Makes it sound like only by going higher the next time
static wadi
well no much sense to go right to 50
wind nest
Do higher heat runs give more darkness on the subsequent play through?
wind nest
That’s a problem for the badges and darkness requirements...
winter mirage
||oh no what a shame I have to purge Huge Catch for the legendary boon achievement uh the power I give up for achievements is immense||
brisk trail
fellas, i have a bit of an issue
hey did someone have done a 63 heat run already?
so i'm on switch, and i'm trying to get the Sigil of the Dead, but it appears as if that weird heart-thing is locked?
how exactly do i trigger the ability to give hades another nectar?
static wadi
@brisk trail 1st of all it's kinda spoiler
static wadi
and people who reading this may care
cunning crest
one of us can dm you the answer if you really want to know
brisk trail
i would love that
static wadi
2nd afaik ||u have it after credit scene||
cunning crest
^
static wadi
have luck
brisk trail
i was actually asking that for a friend, he hates spoilers so i just go in and find out the stuff for him
thank you, have a good day
static wadi
if he hates spoilers where did he know about this keepsake?)
static wadi
afaik there was no any sign there should be another
not even empty space
at least for me
brisk trail
for switch there's a black outline
static wadi
oh may be for switch it's another
brisk trail
possibly
but it does also happen for pc i think, as i have seen it
let me check rq
static wadi
i'm 100% sure there was nothing
brisk trail
i can't post images here but there are black things
with little sigils over them
that indicate that there is something there
brisk trail
i am aware
tepid plover
nope u cant have all bounties at once
Lmfaoooooo
dreamy mauve
Hmm
fair dove
obtuse zephyr
The twin fists just refuse to give me flying cutter. I swear. Just the last one I need
static wadi
@obtuse zephyr what aspect
obtuse zephyr
Speak of the devil and he shall appear, finally
Zag
I know it doesn't show for talos
obtuse zephyr
I'm farming tartarus for the boons on zag Aspects
Just trying to clear the list out
static wadi
yeah i still have 6-7 prophecies to end
thorn tendon
god damn you Artemis, just give me the last boon I need for your prophecy
obtuse zephyr
Now I just need Chaos to finally give me assault and we'll be cool
The pain is real seraph. I'm also farming for High Tolerance for Dio at the same time
static wadi
@thorn tendon exit wounds?
thorn tendon
I actually mistyped and meant Athena, and will now be smote by the gods
/is smote
(brilliant riposte)
static wadi
@obtuse zephyr do u know u should use alternative mirror for assault?
obtuse zephyr
.......I do now
thorn tendon
-- and yes, Assault eluded me for EVER
static wadi
good
obtuse zephyr
Which one needs to be swapped?
thorn tendon
And then I checked the wiki and went GOTTA FLIP MIRROR
static wadi
if u have upgrade for it
thorn tendon
DEAR CHARON PUNCHBOWL: GIVE ME TOUCH OF STYX
SO I CAN STOP USING THE VERSION OF DEFIANCE I DONT LIKE
static wadi
@thorn tendon i feel you man
thorn tendon
i do not die often enough for Stubborn to be at all useful (even my very first run I got all the way to Megaera and then went "oops I don't know your attack pattern and have like no hit points WELP)
but I'm like GIMMIE DAT PROPHECY
static wadi
@thorn tendon it usefull for ||high heat|| when u have more problem vs regular enemies
at least i heard
thorn tendon
yeah I can see that for sure
thorn tendon
the real ponit here is that i need gems to put more nice things in the lounge for my gf dusa
shell ice
to elaborate: ||at high heat regular enemies are more threatening, and because youre probably playing with health regeneration set to -100%, SD is the ONLY way to restore health||
thorn tendon
and my other gf megaera, and my bf than
shell ice
||definitely makes dad fight way harder though||
thorn tendon
gotta make the house nice for my ridiculous polycue
yeah that [redacted] is a bear with only one defiance
mild bison
acorn is good for dad
latent summit
Has Supergiant ever said anything about improving the give up functionality? Cause unless you change your weapon or starting keepsake, you get the same exact seed
which is really really annoying if you wanna do a silly challenge run, or start with a hammer that gives you no options of what you wanted to build
shell ice
probably not, it can be annoying but you can just take an intentional death
though you do lose winstreaks like that
tepid plover
^
latent summit
I dont care for winstreaks but my problem with that is that taking an intentional death takes like 2 mins lol
mild bison
it also can take a long time
shell ice
heh, fair
latent summit
like rn im trying to do a one boon run, but I need a specific boon
tepid plover
Just dont die, dont side with daddy
latent summit
and this is taking absurdly long to get
tepid plover
I like the give up option as it is, cause sometimes I just forgot to change a single talent or keepsake, but I like what I got first
tepid plover
||there is a mod||
static wadi
@latent summit just die
latent summit
theyve gone and modded the game already?
civic solstice
Somebody try and convince me nerfing weapons in a single player game is a good idea because I don't understand the logic behind it whatsoever
latent summit
christ
tepid plover
Welcome to the internet
granite ether
The game has been in early access since december 2018
So no real surprises mods exist
latent summit
I mean, I get simple mods like
basic QoL things
audio
sprites
but seed randomizations big
shell ice
@civic solstice can't you take that argument to its logical conclusion and just say "they should give every weapon an instant one-hit-kill attack; after all, it's a single player game, it's your choice whether to use it or not"
tepid plover
I dont know what is called, all I know is jt was on github
shell ice
but of course that would minimize the need for actual decision making or gameplay
deep geyser
People are making mods?
mild bison
run time is tracked so there is a competitive element to the game.
deep geyser
Intriguing...
mild bison
which doesn't explain why eris rail was buffed to 75% lol
shell ice
that's the point behind nerfs: devs want to encourage diversity to gameplay approaches, rather than taking chiron aspect + aphro special every time or w/e
eris buff was probably a bit overtuned though yeah
lmao
civic solstice
@shell ice Dude every weapon in this game with the right aspect, abilities, boons can be made OP. Every single weapon. If you don't want to play it that way, then don't play it that way. It's not affecting X or Y or Z's enjoyment of the way they play their game
static wadi
without hermes dem and pos
shell ice
and as i said
cant you take that argument to its logical conclusion
and just say
"ok give every weapon an instant win button"
"it's your choice whether to use it"
civic solstice
Every weapon has a way to get there, to that same type of place that the bow had
Every weapon
mild bison
every sub 7 speed run is eris rail and it's not even close
shell ice
i think bow special was very clearly overtuned
moreover it encouraged insane crystallization in bow builds
civic solstice
The rail is insane
shell ice
the optimal build for hera was
the same as the optimal build for chiron
you just built around special
civic solstice
Have you seen the rail OP build? That's more insane than anythign else
shell ice
because it was way stronger than everything else the bow was doing
mild bison
the optimal build for everything used to be merciful end lmao
civic solstice
BUT it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game
granite ether
Speedruns are also a very small sample size so not all that statistcally significant
civic solstice
Knowing that it exists doesnt affect me, at all
shell ice
okay, then a nerf shouldnt affect your enjoyment either?
civic solstice
....because it's a nerf to a weapon I enjoy using?
tepid plover
Variable, youre contradicting yourself
civic solstice
How
Knowing that insane builds of other weapons doesnt negatively affect my experience witt the game
shell ice
if your argument is "it makes it harder to play the weapon suboptimally" then sure i guess
civic solstice
Specifically nerfing a weapon's build that I enjjoy using does
gusty slate
shell ice
god forbid the devs make you make decisions in a game where literally every room choice, boon choice, shop choice, keepsake choice, etc is a decision
¯_(ツ)_/¯
civic solstice
Not everyone likes using the bow, I don't understand the reason for it
There's always gonna be a META for everything, EVERYTHING
No matter what you do
No matter what you nerf
shell ice
sure, but bow special was clearly a mile ahead of everything else the bow was doing
if you look at sword im not sure we have an "optimal" sword build
it might be athena cast, it might be some nemesis crit stuff
etcetc
civic solstice
A mile ahead? Again, look at that rail build dude, people are beating the entire game with it in under 8 minutes using that
tepid plover
This is exactly why I hate the freedom hades gives you when compared to other roguelikes
civic solstice
Give me a break a mile ahead lol
shell ice
bow special was clearly way ahead of everything else to the point where all 3 aspects were best served by building hard around special
(hidden aspect ofc having a different special)
and as mentioned, i agree that eris is overtuned
civic solstice
And thats fine
shell ice
i dont see how thats supposed to be a counterargument
gusty slate
Oh Hera used special too?
shell ice
yeah pokeuser, prenerf most of the bow speedrun attempts were like
"you can use zagreus OR hera"
"doesnt matter"
"since the only thing youll ever use is special"
civic solstice
Knowing people are clearing rooms in seconds using that doesn't bother me
Why would it bother anyone?
gusty slate
Wow really, lol never noticed
granite ether
I will say pre chiron nerf I could on a regular basis get to the champions without any boons (exluding hammers)
shell ice
well, i think things need to stay in relative balance with each other to encourage gameplay diversity
civic solstice
You want a bigger challenge? That;s what Heat is for
granite ether
And I'm pretty terrible at bow
shell ice
i think the game does have some gaps, its not perfect on this end
civic solstice
You want to breeze through the game using optimal builds....why not?
civic solstice
What is it negatively affecting?
shell ice
i mean okay, i guess here's the difference in opinion
civic solstice
Theres no argument dude
shell ice
i think players should be expected not necessarily to make optimal decisions
civic solstice
Its single player
shell ice
but to not feel like theyre handicapping themself
to a significant extent
since that feels bad
ie the relative balance should be in kept in check
theres two ways to do that
buffs or nerfs
the problem is that the game does need to have some baseline of difficulty
civic solstice
Thats what Heat is for
shell ice
if you buff everything, that difficulty baseline moves down
civic solstice
Too easy? Turn up the Heat
You like it easy? SShouldnt be a problem
Shouldnt be a problem
shell ice
thats a nice idea in spirit and i do enjoy high heat but you have to recognize
this is a pretty imperfect solution
buoyant merlin
Does the gun that gets stronger when you reload need a buff?
civic solstice
Its a single player game, shouldnt be a problem
shell ice
high heat can be... cruel
sharp fossil
i’m a chaos player
sharp fossil
i’m glad chaos was nerfed
shell ice
deal
granite ether
God mode is a thing for those who need it too
sharp fossil
just a data point
shell ice
most of the heat options limit the player or punish them in some way
that isnt fun for everyone
it's not just "getting harder", it's "forcing into a specific gameplay style"
one of the heat penalties shuts out boon options, another mirror options
another turns off HP regen
gusty slate
I must've been really out of the loop lol
civic solstice
You have to explain to me how other players playing their game a certain way negatively impacts the way any other single player plays theirs for stuff like this to make sense
shell ice
my point is that turning up the heat isnt fun for everyone
shell ice
but they still need to have a baseline of balance
civic solstice
Its still tough
sharp fossil
i mean, what you’re ignoring is that some people like it when their main problem is nerfed
makes things more interesting
civic solstice
You have to get to a certain point still to make it OP
shell ice
(especially since the game's plot is paced with this in mind - if you beat the game within your first 5 runs or so, it completely ruins the plot progression)
civic solstice
I didn't get there until 40 something hours in
shell ice
(you get plot events way after they make sense)
shell ice
i mean beat ||hades||
civic solstice
It takes at least 10
shell ice
i'm aware.
gusty slate
Messes up some dialogue though
shell ice
it messes up a lot of stuff
you still get flashbacks
way after they make sense to have
civic solstice
But you aren't going to get there anyways within that time frame
shell ice
||Oh, I need to go find mom! Wait i already found her||
civic solstice
Like I said it still took me until run 20 something to do it
That was like 30 hours in for me
static wadi
why there is recoil for using cats?
civic solstice
That's a good amount of time
shell ice
so my question is, where do you disagree with me
do you disagree that there should be a relative balance between different aspects/weapons?
sharp fossil
what has this got to do with the chiron nerf tho
shell ice
or do you disagree that nerfs are sometimes a preferable way to accomplish this relative to buffs?
or both?
sharp fossil
30 hours in, a lot of people prolly haven’t even unlocked that weapon
civic solstice
The baseline of difficulty is always going to be, especially at that start where you don't have an excess of Darkness to fill things out to give you that edge
I still was struggling at the end sometimes, even with 3 extra lives
I can't imagine doing that at the beginning with one
civic solstice
Its an unrealistic fear
I answered it, its an unrealistic fear, the vast majority of players wont be good enough to do it at the start
gusty slate
Wow this has been going on for awhile 
shell ice
so you think that there shouldnt be a sort of relative balance between different decisions in the game?
that goes against literal decades of game design philosophy
because you want to create a predictable user experience so that you can encourage players to do fun things (and in the case of a rougelite, diverse things)
and that's hard to do when there are massive, visible gaps in power level
civic solstice
Everyone plays the game the way they enjoy it, I don't see a problem with that. The choice will always be there for those who want to do things differently. I don't understand how that negatively impacts your other players
shell ice
either you overcompensate or undercompensate in your balancing
and make the game either feel cruel if you pcik a "suboptimal" weapon, or remove a lot of the gameplay if you pick an "optimal" one
civic solstice
Some people like distance fighting, some can't stand it
Its okay because its SINGLE PLAYER
zenith mauve
Does Vanquisher's Keep stack up with the regular rewards?
civic solstice
You playt the game the way you wan to
zenith mauve
Or just replace them?
gusty slate
I think it stacks yeah
shell ice
it's single player, yes, but devs in single player games still want to encourage players to do things that they'll find fun
this might seem kind of exploitative
tepid plover
It stacks
shell ice
but it's a basic tenet of game design
civic solstice
And they give encouragment to do it, ESPECIALLY at the start where you can get bonus darkness for using different weapons every run
That's all you really need
That was good enough right there
zenith mauve
nice
shell ice
but that doesnt really encourage diversity in aspects or in strategies pursued
civic solstice
Because you want darkness to get more progression
Thats enough for the vast majority of players to try different things
shell ice
yes, and that only encourages changing the weapon, not the build and not the aspect
civic solstice
What do you mean?
You have to swtich off from the bow, thats your whole thng
thing*
shell ice
just because youre encouraged to go bow -> rail -> spear -> blahblah -> bow
doesnt mean the times you use the bow will be different
gusty slate
I mean, could just do straight cast builds, but I guess the argument for the nerfs was for the special to become more in-line with primary?
pliant dawn
The incentive of changing the aspect/build is called personal preference.
civic solstice
WHY DOES THAT MATTER lol, I don't get it. People play the weapon the way that gives them the most enjoyment, my god
shell ice
if so, does nerfing into a more in-line power level affect that enjoyment?
like if your argument is "people will play whatever they have fun with most"
pliant dawn
Oh my god. It's not that deep.
shell ice
then power level adjustments shouldnt matter
unless they make things straight unviable
gusty slate
shell ice
i don't like how you're painting me as an antagonist when i'm just trying to lay out my perspective.
granite ether
This discussion seems to be going in circles, so please move onto a differant topic ^_^
shell ice
it feels like you're pushing an agenda rather than trying to communicate something
fair
civic solstice
The whole point of playing a game to MOST PEOPLE is to have fun
If they play a weapon a certain way its because they are having fun playing it that way
static wadi
@civic solstice challenge can be sort of fun too
civic solstice
How does that negatively impact other players Answer me that
Please answer me that
static wadi
ther eis no challenge to play op stuff - no fun
shell ice
I have been asked to move on.
civic solstice
Because you cant answer that
shell ice
sure, whatever ends this argument
granite ether
No, I asked for the topic to change as this discussion is going round in circles
gusty slate
sigh So, Theseus is a cool guy
ornate olive
civic solstice
Sure challenge can be fun and it's abundant in this game if you want it, nothing wrong with that
gusty slate
looks around wow no one took my Theseus bait even ah!
granite ether
Agreed, theseus is pretty sweet :3
static wadi
look at his portrait
civic solstice
But the logic behind nerfing a weapon in a single player game because people are having fun still makes absolutely no sense
static wadi
an the House
@civic solstice nope there is
i just said it
read it again
i'm done
flat vapor
theseus is like, 3rd best boy
civic solstice
You have the heat levels if you want challenge
static wadi
@flat vapor 4th
gusty slate
Oh, who is 1st and 2nd?
civic solstice
Other than that, its pointlesss nerfing stuff because people like having fun
gusty slate
Not saying Theseus is that much higher up jus wondering
static wadi
1st is Cerberus 2nd is Cerberus 2nd head and 3rd is cerberus 3rd head
shell ice
cerberus
gusty slate
Oh
flat vapor
zag and hypnos, of course
gusty slate
3x cerberus
clever
Here's what I need from Hypnos
Please send me to dreamworld where I can test weapons, boons and enemies
static wadi
@civic solstice dude u saying people but u mean not "all people" but "you only"
shell ice
can we not extend this
civic solstice
What do you mean?
static wadi
u can test anything u want
gusty slate
I guess, but I'm too lazy
shell ice
i really don't like how the argument is being misconstrued
gusty slate
I also like the thought of Hypnos doing it
static wadi
@gusty slate https://www.nexusmods.com/hades/mods/15 here you go
shell ice
but i've been gagged by the (justified) decision of a moderator to end the discussion
gusty slate
but that's not Hypnos dreamworld!
civic solstice
Pff this is ridiculous
granite ether
You've been asked multiple times to end the discussion @civic solstice
So please stop and move on to a different topic
civic solstice
People are responding to me and I cant answer back?
Whatever
whats the point of something like this
gusty slate
Beats me, but discussion that doesn't go anywhere is
granite ether
If you really wanna continue the discussion please take it to DM's
shell ice
I feel like you're intentionally trying to provoke a reaction
granite ether
But the discussion here was going in circles and will continue to go that way
shell ice
Guess it's my fault for assuming the internet could foster a good-faith discussion on game design
I'm recusing myself
static wadi
is it called stubborn defiance?
gusty slate
civic solstice
You saying its the player at fault for playing the weapon in the way they have most fun with
Thats ridiculous
granite ether
So anyway, who is the bestest boi and why is it cerberus?
gusty slate
@static wadi My God. Clever.
flat vapor
bestestest boy is zag 😛
gusty slate
I mean, the entire game agrees. He pretty much has everyone with him or at least respect
static wadi
@gusty slate thx
cloud apex
Hades is the best boy, even if he tries to claim zag is one 
static wadi
@gusty slate god of flattery
gusty slate
There's no ambrosia
shell ice
idk who best boy is but
gusty slate
I can't take our bond further
shell ice
zag is definitely best boyo
thorn tendon
touch of styx at last; Charon's well prophecy fulfilled
static wadi
damn it's morning already
thorn tendon
now I just need Athena
granite ether
flat vapor
Hey boyo... We're not getting away with this, are we?
gusty slate
Pft, Redbloods
static wadi
so why do cast has a recoil
shell ice
my guess is that they wanted casts to feel more "solid" or "tactile"
if that makes sense
hollow swan
Charon is best boy. He's such a cutie pie, I want nothing more than to be buds with him
gusty slate
Hrrrrrn
shell ice
its like adding big sound effects to guns in video games
makes them feel more "impactful"
static wadi
@hollow swan oh u just want a discount arent ya
gusty slate
No, I just want a small... loan.
static wadi
@shell ice not when it push u in magma
granite ether
A small loan of ||300 obol and maybe a loyalty card too||
static wadi
there are lot of dying souls in it
shell ice
charon's ||loyalty cards|| are the WORST ||loyalty cards|| i've ever dealt with
gusty slate
Yeah but you're a live soul
static wadi
@granite ether with l||ittle sparring||
shell ice
let me just say, it does NOT encourage me to become a recurring customer