The way the mechanics of Ares and Demeter’s boons work lovely reflects their contrasts.
Demeter’s boons reflect her savage, ruthless nature in winter. When everyone is Chilled, they Decay, reflecting the slow death of hypothermia and famine caused by winter.
Ares’ Doom status curse is a politeness. High Damage instantly just as a quick Spatha or Spear strike is a quick death on the battlefield, though the Blade Rifts reflect how a long war can cut down even the greatest forces over time.
#h1-discussion
hearty torrent
deep pivot
Ares ... is a politeness...
Proceeds to blend everything with Blade Rifts
(This is a joke)
hearty torrent
Yeah. I like that the Blade Rifts have upgrades to increase their size and draw enemies into them, just as war can draw in even those at the periphery of a war.
flat vapor
i like to think that ares just likes smoothies
deep pivot
I feel like the boons overall reflect the gods' personalities. Aphrodite charming and making everyone feel weak while crushing their hearts where it hurts the most. Athena being wise in defending and knowing how to counterattack, Zeus and his zippy zippy zaps.
narrow hemlock
[pointing at my icon] blending is caring
manic bobcat
Can we appreciate that Heartbreak Strike Bow is literally a Cupid Bow?
You shoot Heart Arrow
deep pivot
That's exactly what I always think of whenever I do that 
narrow hemlock
hearty torrent
that's beautiful
narrow hemlock
mentioning cupid bow reminded me of it lmao
narrow hemlock
zagreon
jagged echo
that would be cool. if his character model changes based on the keepsake/boons u get
jagged echo
not much but maybe a change in palette
hearty torrent
i think just palette swaps for the different weapon aspects would be fun
narrow hemlock
even a palette swap is a lot of work, according to how greg describes their animation process :/
jagged echo
do the different weapon aspects not change things aesthetically? i havent unlocked any yet because im indecisive and not at the point where i can just farm more blood easily
hearty torrent
oh they change weapon's aesthetics and mechanics, just not the Zag man himself
jagged echo
okay, that's about what i thought
oblique quest
Hello everyone
manic bobcat
Hey there Delilah klaus
jagged echo
im trying to decide what weapon i want to dump blood into so i can get better at using it in an attempt to beat the final boss. im thinking the rail, but the spear or shield are close contenders too
probably just gonna go with the rail
oblique quest
I just beat Meg earlier
but I got killed by the gorgon head in asphodel immediately
jagged echo
did u run into any of the others yet? or do they not spawn until after u beat meg? i cant remember if i saw them before i first beat her
the big head duo are v annoying, yeah
the gorgon's rate of fire is just so high. but it is definitely manageable if u keep at it
oblique quest
Yeah
manic bobcat
Power Couple
oblique quest
I havent encountered the other bosses yet but Im gonna try and go for a run with Stygius right now
jagged echo
ahhh nice. have u spent more of your keys on talent unlocks or weapon unlocks so far?
quaint wind
the shield is tons of fun
jagged echo
yeee, is one of my favs
oblique quest
Darn I was so close to beating the Hydra
hearty torrent
you'll get 'em next time
oblique quest
I was pretty close
granite ether
ayy nice progress 
oblique quest
Just gotta keep my cool in the last phase
This is the first rouglike where Ive made decent progress in such a short time lol
half pier
The spear is my favorite too. <3
narrow hemlock
hades is very accessible, which is a lot of what makes it fun right off the bat (on top of the character dialogue)
oblique quest
Yeah the characters and their dialogue is great
fringe osprey
I literally only started playing roguelites because of this game and how strong SGG's writing is.
Hades is ballin
oblique quest
Mhmm
oblique quest
I met Chaos in the game and I gotta say her design is rad
terse geyser
chaos is mostly male in this game
that's how the characters refer to him (them?) anyways
narrow hemlock
chaos is referred to via they/them
half pier
I think in the actual mythology, Chaos was genderless. But don't quote me on that.
granite ether
Chaos is indeed genderless, they're referred to as they/them/theirs @oblique quest
every time someone has referred to or mentioned chaos it's always been they/them/theirs @terse geyser
granite ether
yeah Chaos has always been genderless, not sure about other depictions of Chaos in media/games though
narrow hemlock
chaos is sometimes referred to as a goddess but as far as I can remember usually given a vague reference to gender 
dunno about games and stuff. supergiant's choice in design is pretty neat
hearty torrent
i'm not sure Chaos is personified too much, at least in the Greek sources. it's generally more of a formless aether from which everything else originates.
granite ether
I've never seen Chaos referred to as a goddess as all
you might be thinking of Nyx Tatz
narrow hemlock
im not
quaint wind
doesn't the game use "they" as a chaos's pronoun?
narrow hemlock
yes
granite ether
yes, they/them/theirs
rapid bear
i might have had a cursed idea just now regarding dark thirst
what if instead of just 20% bonus dark/gems. it was "gain X gems/dark per X enemies kiled"
charred bronze
what about, darkness for using the weapon, extra gems for also using an specific aspect?
quaint bramble
Just throwing out the possibility, Eris was the goddess of discord and also chaos in some accounts, maybe that was what was being discussed earlier? Just a thought. 🤷♂️
granite ether
that could be it unseen
hearty torrent
yeah Eris being the goddess of discord could be relating to chaos in other contexts in people's minds
granite ether
yay for the many many possible interpretations of greek mythos
narrow hemlock
i am not so bad at reading i mistake chaos for nyx or eris guys 🤧 https://gyazo.com/a4bfe87926a92ccf82b74a9587ddfb5b
i was actually trying to dig and see if i could find some references to this in texts
ive not found anything conclusive so it remains at "sometimes" this reference is made
the closest thing is an old greek comedy but thats shaky, at best
hearty torrent
what's that website you're screenshotting?
narrow hemlock
its theoi, they usually reference all sorts of old classical texts, plays, ect, so i was hoping to find some further reading to dig into
i am legitimately interested in seeing if theres any further works that lead to them listing chaos in this manner and would scour the net but im also in the middle of trying to... play undermine, sort some hades dialogue and work on a bot so uh. pacing myself, what is that
granite ether
that is however not the depiction of Chaos in Hades though even when Chaos is referred to as a goddess in other interpretations
narrow hemlock
never said it was though aggy
i am fully aware chaos is gender neutral in hades, and honestly i adore that.
granite ether
the implication was there so it's kinda better to be explicit but that's more a me thing than anything else
narrow hemlock
i only ever brought it up because you mentioned being unsure about other media/games. my comment was in reference to that, not hades. apologies if you misunderstood my intent there
granite ether
yeah, I entirely misunderstood so it's partly my fault too
narrow hemlock
u_u its okay ilu still
covert pier
ily too aggy 
manic bobcat
Ima start calling my friends Numbskulls from now on
regal junco
Zag do be kinda a cutey tho
manic bobcat
You spelled Ares wrong
granite ether
tbf, every character in hades is a cutie
manic bobcat
Except for the exalts
narrow hemlock
ares is handsome
sullen rampart
Hi I'm fairly new to the game and only have reached the final boss twice. Lost both times.
I had a question though. I see screenshots of people who have completed the game, and they have so many boons.
But even the two times I have reached there I haven't had many boons. Atleast 5 fewer I would say. So is there a trick to getting more boons instead of say darkness or gems and such?
charred bronze
i would say they buy more from the shop, and also get more boons by using fated authority
hearty torrent
yeah buying boons from Charon, going after Trials of the Gods at every opportunity, and going at each Styx wing with a boon can net you lots of boons
sullen rampart
Oh alright cool. I only just unlocked fated authority but haven't added points to it. Will try. Thanks!
hollow heron
i generally just rush final boss in styx
it's just variance in runs mostly
and taking boons when you get offered them
smoky rune
God this game is amazing
sullen rampart
Yes it is
charred bronze
sometimes i actively avoid gods in my runs, but im still in 4 and 5 heat
smoky rune
Why is that
hollow heron
ares sucks if you've already gotten your attack/special
charred bronze
i believe the game will only offer you naturally four gods?
charred bronze
so getting stuck with one that will never give you something good sucks
hollow heron
lol
oh and sometimes artemis sucks if you already have attack/special boons
and demeter is bad late game
deep pivot
hollow heron
and basically every god sucks
deep pivot
I'm just going to let you vent it al out~
charred bronze
if im offer poseidon and i see demeter i take it
hollow heron
except hermes
smoky rune
@sullen rampart the more you play, the more opportunities you'll have to stack up on boons. You'll see. You're still barely scratching the surface
hollow heron
hermes is amazing
charred bronze
blizzard shot is just easy for me
hollow heron
hermes boons are worth on average 2 random other god boons imo
hearty torrent
four olympians + hermes seems to be how many the game offers on my normal runs without grabbing the keepsakes
smoky rune
There are certain later mirror aspects that you unlock that will open up opportunities to get more boons
charred bronze
i personally play "slave of the fates" style
sullen rampart
@smoky rune ya the replayability of the game is insane so I don't mind the retries at all
sterile light
speaking of, do you guys prefer any of the new boon related talents?
charred bronze
golden touch, purse, dark thirst, try to get whatever is over to me that is epic and change keepsake in asphodel to round up
sharp parcel
80% Darkness healing is the healing talent
the other one doesn't hold a candle to it
hollow heron
I should try the darkness healing one
sterile light
really??
hollow heron
I run stygian soul and I really like it
charred bronze
that thing turns darkness troves into healing troves
smoky rune
I was a little underwhelmed by Hydraulic whatever, Poseidon's new one, but like other boons I'd originally delt were worthless, it has a time and place. That one specifically is amazing in Temple of Styx
hearty torrent
chthonic vitality definitely feels very weak to me
sharp parcel
you heal off darkness rooms, darkness from wells, and darkness from treasure troves
sterile light
it forces you to ignore non-darkness stuff tho
charred bronze
well it doesnt force you
sharp parcel
um, how does it force you to ignore anything?
hearty torrent
only if you really need health
charred bronze
just give you the option to take it for healing
sterile light
hmmm
sharp parcel
if you're at full or nigh full HP, just don't take darkness
hollow heron
you lose 3 hp a room which does hurt
smoky rune
At first, I thought Chthonic Vitality was weak, too, but it has a place at times
charred bronze
the other one start to kick in in styx really hard
smoky rune
It's stronger than it seems initially, again great in Temple of Styx
charred bronze
where there are so many small rooms
sharp parcel
that's the only benefit of Cthonic Vitality, the ability to heal some in Styx
but you can still get darkness from wells there
hollow heron
so in say a 60 room run, you need 180*(1/0.8) = 180*1.25 = 225 darkness for it to be better
charred bronze
i just value opening darkness troves for the healing, or taking the dark room for the healing plus max hp
hearty torrent
ah, if it works room-to-room in Styx then that's pretty decent to off-set Styx Poison.
smoky rune
It's also good if you're playing a long range build, with very few opportunities for enemies to get you
charred bronze
225 darkness is very doable
sterile light
tbh I rarely even get hit with poison anymore
sharp parcel
you're forgetting that you're not gonna be using all 3 points of healing after every room
smoky rune
Yeah but 6000j, by not trying your healing to darkness, it allows you to pick other paths
hollow heron
it is but it does cost and it's less consistent healing
sterile light
Styx is way better than it was a couple updates ago
hollow heron
you aren't, but you also aren't always going to have access to darkness
I think they're fairly even
sharp parcel
in addition, the healing reduction heat modifier reduces that 3 per room to 2, a reduction of 33%
hollow heron
yeah that's fair
charred bronze
they both work very well
smoky rune
And you can use the Well of Charon to make up for lost healing from Darkness
charred bronze
but darkness healing can top you quicker
smoky rune
True, bit then you're depending on finding Darkness
sterile light
just don't get hit 
sharp parcel
a single darkness trove could heal you to full
smoky rune
Which is hard to come by in Temple of Styx or if you're wanting to take paths for other items
charred bronze
well if im near death, 3 healing wont save me either
hollow heron
so you need that spike
sharp parcel
you will find darkness, it is inevitable
hollow heron
styx is honestly easier than ely tbh
sharp parcel
exactly
hollow heron
by quite a bit as well
sterile light
so much easier
smoky rune
Oh yeah. Elysium is haaaaaaard
hollow heron
acorn in styx is amazing imo
generally it's really hard for spearpoint to be better than acorn in styx i think
charred bronze
it is a matter of preference
smoky rune
But maybe I should experiment with it
hollow heron
you can do the maths, acorn is by far the best safety item in styx
sterile light
I never used he acorm until a couple days back. It makes Hades MUCH easier to deal with
charred bronze
i hate that the acorn also get remove by any summon of the FB
sterile light
I mean otherwise it would be broken
hollow heron
acorn is already kinda broken imo
hearty torrent
darkness isn't that hard a find tbh. between infernal troves, the erebus item in Wells and darkness in Shops, it's pretty easy.
hollow heron
FB hits you for what, 25 at minimum iirc?
acorn blocking that 5 times is 125 extra hp
charred bronze
darkness regeneration is just useless once you get to styx thats all
sterile light
@hearty torrent the problem is trying to find it when you need the healing
smoky rune
I use both Cthonic vitality and the other. It depends on my weapon and what build I'm going in with
sterile light
+3 on door is very reliable
charred bronze
FB lasers sometimes can kill you if you dont get cover or close fast enough
sterile light
wait what
charred bronze
i love that spear point deny so much overlaping damage coming your way
smoky rune
If I'm taking less health at the outset and trying to keep my 80%, I like to go 3 per riom
hollow heron
yes but you gain enough health from using acorn that they don't actually kill you
sterile light
wdym "close"
hollow heron
you can circle FB iirc
granite ether
probably best to move to #h1-builds-and-combat with where thios convo is going 
charred bronze
there is a safe zone very close to FB
hollow heron
final boss
charred bronze
final boss
sterile light
no spoilers discussion
granite ether
general/no spoilers discussion
deep pivot
This is a haven for people who don't want to be spoiled 
narrow hemlock
spoiler: you're trying to escape 0:
narrow hemlock
really expected that hammer to come from peach honestly
granite ether
hallow yew
taking bone hourglass to elysium transition, grabbing items, then replacing it with acorn right before styx is the move
formal saddle
At this risk of this being a dumb question. Is there a physical PC release for this game, or at least one that is planned? ( I know physical PC games are from the stone age, but a guy can hope.)
calm laurel
spoiler: Hades is in the game
terse geyser
*screams at the sudden crushing of all hopes and dreams
brisk trail
Is the update out 👉 👈 😳
floral shore
The update is in beta currently. Playable but subject to change, and not officially out.
granite ether
The update according to announcments is releasing sometime in june (no official date as of yet), but as Anassi said, there is currently a tech beta happening atm. Read the #test-branch-readme channel for more info @brisk trail ^_^
brisk trail
Best hades YouTubers?
iron badge
i follow haelian and jawless paul
former is pretty sick to watch but not too daunting that beginners can feel intimidated
latter is pretty informative and clear
both can be kinda funny
brisk trail
Thanks
oblique quest
Ah man I got to the final fight earlier, I almost cleared it
granite ether
niceu
oblique quest
Had a pretty fun build to with the Fists I just went put put crit on its basic attacks with Artemis' boon and just ora ora'd enemies lol
worldly sierra
I personally like using Artemis on special, with Athena on attack, or really any other god boon (except Poseidon for obvious reasons) on attack.
I feel like Artemis isn't as effective on attack over the rest of the options
But it's extremely awesome on special
What aspect do you use for fists @oblique quest ?
spare trellis
Can someone explain me please how to end this quest with fishs I had to get 50 fish hold them aslnd then soeka to Poseidon or I can get fish sell them to chef and when I reach 50 I can speak to Poseidon. And I had to call him with his item or what cuz I'm depressed right now with this quest
floral shore
You can sell them to the chef. Once you've caught a total of 50 fish and talk to uncle P. the next time you'll get the prophecy finished.
spare trellis
Thx
worthy egret
I cannot, for the life of me, catch rare fish
Am i just
Slow????
124 runs no rare fish yet
manic bobcat
By rare do you mean Legendary?
worthy egret
I suppose
All i ever get are the classic 2 fish in every region
;~;
I swear i always press it just when i notice!!! And fast, too!! I dont understand
manic bobcat
Have you tried the finger trick?
worthy egret
The what
void vigil
Putting your finger over the bobber, iirc
manic bobcat
Yup you cover the bouy to aboid distraction, only interact when you see a flash of light atop your finger.
charred bronze
feels so good when you keep clearing styx to find death defiances and in the end you dont need them
sand cobalt
Is there a build calculator for boons out there?
past mirage
It would be great if there was, but I didn't find anything. Level progression in particular hasn't been fully documented...
sand cobalt
Ok
brisk trail
Hey guys, does the hero change outfits/looks when getting new stuff like weapons etc? If not, is it planned as a feature?
narrow hemlock
this should answer your question https://steamcommunity.com/app/1145360/discussions/0/1864993755183591660/#c1864993755185620425
past mirage
I was surprised that sprite animations are still used in such a graphically refined game, but it explains a lot.
brisk trail
@narrow hemlock thanks mate!
Really a nice explanation, well I guess we all agree more content and features are far better than an outfit change option.
fading prairie
when will new update come? its middlle june already?
limpid crown
patience is a virtue
fading prairie
oooo what a word unbelievable
past mirage
Considering the technical beta is now ongoing, it will probably depend on how much time is needed to implement the feedback, so I'd say anywhere between 1-2 weeks.
Unless something bad turns up.
fading prairie
well thank you
bronze knoll
hi :)
I could use some help regarding controllers, so, to those of you who play with a controller, which one do you use?
I've always been a KBM player, but Hades seems to offer a different experience playing with a controller, so I wanna give it a try but completely clueless here!
Any opinion and tip is more than welcome, thanks in advance!
deep pivot
I use the Xbox One controller and it has served me well for Hades. Control-wise, it feels smooth
raw moth
hey guys, does pierced butterfly keep its bonus if I switch it?
dense torrent
It says permanent so I assume it would stay
charred bronze
no
once switch to another keepsake it is lost
you have to keep it equip at all times for it to work
raw moth
damn.
charred bronze
else it would be just free damage, clear tartarus and switch
raw moth
kind of a weird choice, that makes you have to keep using the same charm the entire run
narrow hemlock
pierced butterfly and lambent plume are both the same in that their bonuses only take effect so long as they stay equipped
oblique quest
@brisk trail I havent unlocked the aspect system yet.
red coral
It’s just a different style of play!
Pierced butterfly makes a great training keepsake if you have trouble clearing runs and not taking poke damage
brisk trail
@oblique quest Huh?
oblique quest
I can only choose the weapons but I think I can't pick the aspect just yet
I still havent cleared the game just yet
deep pivot
@rugged knoll Read the pins in the #hades-feedback channel. The rules for posting will be there as well as telling you how to get permission to post there.
Specifically, this post https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/525022184280948736/525022422546644992
granite ether
Have you unlocked all the weapons Klaus?
brisk trail
Butterfly and the other one are depression when you get to stage 3 and have to swap them out bc you didn't get any progress @red coral
red coral
Ah, that is rough 😔 but at that point there’s almost no loss in taking the skull earring instead
quasi ferry
Took a break from Hades after playing it a ton on beta launch and months after
So glad I did. Its incredible coming back in and seeing things change and flesh out
This game rocks
red coral
Glad you’re enjoying it again!
past rune
Thought it would be more appropriate to post this here however
deep pivot
Woo! Congratz! I added your name to the hall of fame
I'll just have to delete the link because it has some tech beta content. Sorry about that 😅
past rune
Ah no worries, wasn't sure which channel was appropriate!
final grail
Does anyone know if there’s any plans for supergiant to add achievements into the game? If so, are they planning on waiting until after early access?
flat vapor
Does Hades have Steam Achievements?
Not yet, though we expect to add Steam Achievements (as well as Trading Cards, etc.) by the time Early Access is complete.
from #hades-faq
sharp parcel
they'll most likely be retroactive and pull from the list of prophecies
floral garnet
damn i built a new pc and only now realised there are no cloud saves. i wiped my laptop that i played around 400 hours on 😦
narrow hemlock
woof, the save data is in your local files :/
you might be able to ask around for a late game file so you don't have to start from scratch
floral garnet
yeah ill do that maybe after a few big updates
too sad to enjoy the game right now
whole hazel
I’ll never beat the game with the spear, I hate this thing
deep pivot
Your name left me craving for some chips now 🤤
sharp parcel
don't you mean some chisps?
hazy iron
I just got Poseidon on Special with my Aspect of Talos and I'm dying
this is hilarious
manic bobcat
Ahh the good ol' yank and yeet
brisk trail
"Get over here! No, not you!"
void vigil
@floral garnet im sorry you lost your files D: i can give you my save if youd like, i have a lot of resources and almost all keepsakes maxed
floral garnet
@void vigil i would really appreciate that!
hazy iron
Yeah I feel like Tsundere Scorpion or something
void vigil
congrats!! thats very true
whole hazel
I used Athena though so it’s cheating 
deep pivot
You did it! That's what matters!
void vigil
is it cheating if i got athena attack with exposed on my approval process run... 
deep pivot
Def not
How is it going, alma? Last time I heard from you playing Hades, you were just beginning?
void vigil
oh ive been playing it since the start, but i took a long break
deep pivot
Oooh, I see.
void vigil
im back to it now looking to finish all the content i havent seen before the next patch
deep pivot
Hoho! That's a great feeling, and a nice timing with the next update being this month!
Youtube, why would you put the Grease full album while I'm playing? Guess this is a new Hades experience
It's actually fitting lmao
Plays Summer Nights while passing through Asphodel 👌
outer comet
HAH
near cove
This probably has been asked before, but anyway I would like to ask to ask this. Will Hades be updated after the release?
waxen maple
Helloes! Do we have any news about cloud saves on epic store bros? 🙂
granite ether
No news afaik
paper walrus
I feel like the next update is either going to be named something like Daedalus or the Ongoing Underworld Renovations Update.
red coral
I mean. The update in the immediate future is called The Blood Price Update 😁
simple socket
Anyone know if it's normal for the mouse to suddenly move super slow ingame?
When I tab out to firefox it speeds up again
noble root
Does trippy shot (aoe bomb from dionysus) works with the boilling blood (+% damage on foes with the magic thing in them) ability?
old tundra
can anyone tell me what's the base damage on bow's special arrow
brave thicket
60
old tundra
the single arrow from special attack does 60 ?
hallow flume
Yooooo I just realized there's a discord for this game lmfao
Guys I have a question
What should I focus on
Dark foresight or Olympian favor
old tundra
you should try everything out and see what works best for you
hallow flume
It's a mirror of night upgrade so I'm asking which one gives better benefits
old tundra
I know, a lot of players switch those up often and try different things together
but for me, the dark ( with red letters ) upgrades work the best
rigid reef
TIL how strong of an upgrade the Crystal Clarity is 
floral shore
Crystal Clarity is essentially mandatory if you want to build around Demeter's cast. It is just way, way too slow otherwise.
charred bronze
it is one of those duos that are mandatory for a build, kinda how slicing shot without hunting blades just dont feel as strong
floral shore
Kinda, yeah.
Crystal Beam is just too slow on it's own to reliable hit stuff. It deals a lot of damage but it's super unreliable.
Crystal Clarity massively enhances the tracking, making it way more reliable. It's still a bit awkward but way better.
glass pond
Ha yeah, just found the discord too. Have beaten the duo boss with about half the weapons (I think still missing sword and spear, but also don't see a way to quick check), mostly grinding to finish off boon prophesies, so havent been focusing on any particular boon combos (though I've become extremely partial to Athena's deflect dash)
floral shore
World's best crutch.
glass pond
Is there a mechanical befit to giving nectar beyond the keepsakes for non-companion characters?
terse geyser
no, just conversations
floral shore
A few of them can give you the stuff that fills the bottom of the keepsake cupboard.
rotund berry
Mama Aphrodite's acknowledgment is reward enough
terse geyser
non-companion characters
manic bobcat
Found Nyaa's alt acc.
glass pond
and overall, enjoying the take on the mythos
floral shore
Same. Their depiction of Ares is fantastic.
narrow hemlock
inhales, im summoned
terse geyser
you summoned shoukai!
manic bobcat
Ares sucs
flat vapor
the benefit is the satisfaction of having made many friends
manic bobcat
Ares bad, me no like
narrow hemlock
fox i cant reply to you without being decidedly not family friendly
glass pond
I never would have expected bishi Thanatos
floral shore
For a change Ares is not some frothing-at-the-mouth berserker, but a well spoken, very polite psycho. I love that take.
terse geyser
he's not psychotic!
manic bobcat
Agreed
narrow hemlock
i am so tired of all the ares bashing in media, from now on we stan a god of war that is politely murder-y 🤧
rotund berry
Dionysus is my spirit animal minus the abs
terse geyser
the abs are pretty nice tho
makes me think he works out between partying
or maybe while partying
random shale
limpid crown
"Please expect the official launch and full patch notes sometime later this month (we don't have an exact date)."
solemn relic
buoyant merlin
To those testing the new patch: does it live up to the hype?
narrow hemlock
we're not to discuss it outside of the beta discussion. dunno what there is to say beyond that besides its more content :)
limpid crown
yeah its ||awesome||
obsidian pulsar
There are definitely some issues with it being beta still, but lots of the new content is very fun :)
north sphinx
Hey folks, I'm new here, could anyone help and point me to a channel where it is allowed to post my twitch link so some of my fellow Hades players can interact with me, whenever I stream?
narrow hemlock
north sphinx
Thank you very much. 🙂
old fiber
i know maybe is not the place but wanted to post a sugestion, could it be possible once you unlock a portrait to approach it and see it, as in have it displayed in your screen. Would love to see the art styles.
deep pivot
@old fiber You can submit that to #hades-feedback . Check the pins there to read the rules and how to get permission to post there
frozen warren
Is Apollo ever going to make an appearance?
snow rock
unfortunately no
still tiger
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/477164376496013323/672881358149779486
I think they discuss Apollo and a few other Gods in other replies too
But this was the first search result that I found that mentions apollo by name
narrow ruin
oh
still tiger
Because lots of people ask about Hephaestus too
I'm pretty sure every time they have a QnA they come up with a new way to answer it
inland saddle
The thought of getting playing this game gets me really excited, I just hope it comes to a platform I own at some point.
frozen warren
does anyone have a pictur of the gold plated minotaur?
rugged glacier
does anyone know for sure if the #hades-suggestions channel will be reopened after the technical beta goes live? I hope it will, but I didn't find any confirmation anywhere (or didn't now where to look)
quiet glade
Where do I see the initial patch notes for the beta? I see all the updates, but not the initial patch notes.
granite ether
The Hades suggestions channel has been closed for some time; the feedback channel however will be availible again once the update releases
Full patch notes will be availible when the update officially releases
quiet glade
Ah, thanks.
rugged glacier
@granite ether Thanks
glass pond
Having quite recently started going through a greek myth podcast, really helps with piecing all the little details together
barren ember
What's that good myth podcast called again?
Ah, I found it
"Let's talk about Myths, BaBY"
grand swallow
so does anyone know of a save file editor?
lost a lot of darkness due to a bug . and i'm trying to get it back.
barren ember
There's a modding discord somewhere, or so I've heard
manic bobcat
You can look in #self-promotion. They are not hard to find!
brisk trail
For a change Ares is not some frothing-at-the-mouth berserker, but a well spoken, very polite psycho. I love that take.
@floral shore Yes I totally agree.
floral shore
In beta still.
narrow hemlock
they will announce a date when they're ready probably
brisk trail
Expect it towards the end of the month if not early next month.
tiny bobcat
i think it'll be next month. i'm ok with it, but this is the first time i waited so long for an update
deep pivot
Aw, finally a patient one 😊
coral oasis
Aaah ok, I was just asking a friend when that would be
and yeah, they should def take their time with it 
chilly stump
I can confirm the update will still be out this month! We're just over halfway through June, still have two weeks of boundless update possibilities ahead of us. 
coral oasis
Im so hype for the ||legendary aspects||
glass pond
@barren ember Mythunderstood
barren ember
Contraversial hot take! The two colors of mirror boons are red and yellow
hollow heron
open tide
Can someone tell me why is my darkness goes down after each run???? Example: was 5000, became 4600 and ets, trying to farm darkness, but it goes down instead
hearty torrent
hmm. Unless you're spending it at the Mirror or Broker you shouldn't be bleeding darkness like that.
crimson canopy
Any idea why contractor seemingly always has an exclamation point? I keep thinking there's something new but there isn't. I took the time to scroll through each page to get rid of the exclamation points within the renovations menu but still see the ! above the table :/
hearty torrent
Contractor has a exclamation mark whenever you have enough Gemstones or Diamonds to purchase an upgrade. It refreshes each time you enter the main House.
crimson canopy
Ah, thanks @hearty torrent
neon jackal
Aw man I thought the update was going to drop today
white monolith
idk what i'm doing wrong but i still haven't unlocked guan yu and have no idea how to do it. already beaten the game with a few of the weapons and got up to heat 8 or so. i also do talk to everyone after each run. is it just bad rng or what?
i don't even want to use that weapon but apparently it's needed to unlock the other aspects?
neon jackal
Guan yo I think is related to achiles
white monolith
do i have to have to talk to him after using the spear the previous run?
neon jackal
I think I got it after having him maxed and like third clear with the achiles aspect
granite ether
no release date of the update as of yet, al that is known currently is it will release sometime this month
neon jackal
Since it's been like two weeks in beta I thought it was today
dense torrent
The beta started on the 9th so it's only been about a week
neon jackal
Someone said the updates were usually on Tuesday s
Damn this week felt like three weeks
hazy iron
had never gotten the greater recall boon from hermes with blizzard shot before
that was unreal
hollow igloo
There's negative feedback on boon rewards right? That is, depending on how many you've gotten, you more or less likely to get drops so you stay near the average?
deep pivot
There's a formula for that, yes.
hollow igloo
Is it known how that interacts with the +10% boon chance mirror talent?
does it result in higher expected number of total boons for the run?
Also same question for Trials
is it +1 Boon compared to what I'd have for the rest of the run, or will get canceled out
deep pivot
The Trial room I can confirm that it counts like a normal boon room so it won't change the formula further.
deep pivot
The +10% will add a permanent +10% to the formula. But as laws of probability go, you will have a higher chance but no guarantee of getting more boons.
Yes, it's a free extra boon 👍
hollow igloo
yeah, just making sure expectation value winds up being higher
Do Chaos boons count?
deep pivot
That, I'm not sure of.
hollow igloo
Thanks!
deep pivot
I will ask around and see what I can find. That's something worth noting.
If I had to make a guess, I think they don't change the formula, just like NPC rooms.
hollow igloo
More questions while I play
You get 2 Hermes boons pre-A4 right?
What happens if you sell one?
hollow igloo
interesting, okay
signal goblet
Don't expect any fix to this ever but it brings me endless pain how low Megaera's left arm is compared to her shoulder. Thanks for attending my Tedta
sharp parcel
are you talking about this?
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/hades_gamepedia_en/thumb/6/6b/Megaera_serious.png/730px-Megaera_serious.png?version=73cc7d1fc709373090c8b41c2697b798
it does kinda look like her arm is coming out of her chest instead of the shoulder
past rune
It might be a little low, but I think it just looks lower than it is because of her robe
sharp parcel
it's probably just a bad angle, as we cannot see her shoulder
deep pivot
I've never noticed that 👀
granite ether
Neither 👀
hallow flume
Guys have the Devs talked about adding god's other than Olympian??
Like for example a new chaos gate that has Norse gods
rugged glacier
@hallow flume that sounds like a lot of work to do, and according to Supergiant, the game is supposed to come out later this year. I don't remember them ever mentioning that they'd add gods from other pantheons.
well, I can't say anything for sure tho, so don't take my answer for granted
They already added a few honorable mentions of certain gods from other pantheons within the game, but I doubt they'd go that far at this point in time
marble viper
Everrytime I see and update I'm like.. YES!! one step closer to realease! 
have don't loaded the beta yet because I want to heave the whole thing at once LOL
still flare
Your game is disgustingly good
barren ember
She's just holding her shoulders back
I'm tempted to roll back the beta and play nighty night again just to compare the game's performance
but I'm not looking forward to all the steam downloads again.
patent topaz
Sometimes when clicking to bull rush with the shield it doesn't start or release depending when this happens
It doesn't happen with other weapons so is it my mouse or a bug? Does it happen to some other people here?
crimson canopy
^I think that's happened to me but I chalked it up as trying to click & hold before the previous animation is finished, so it doesn't actually 'count'. Maybe some input buffering could be nice but I have no idea
winter pagoda
anyone know if theres a way to make the cursor large/higher contrast or anything? i feel like i lose track of it kinda often
or is it based on your windows cursor size
ok turns out its based on your windows cursor size
which kidna helps
sage nova
rugged glacier
lol
manic bobcat
Big hmm there
oblique quest
Yes I finally got my first clear!!!
white monolith
can i edit my save file to unlock aspect or something
white monolith
i can't tell if my game is bugged or whatnot but i can't unlock guan yu
which apparently gates me from being able to unlock any of the other 4th aspects
oblique quest
Thanks@past rune! the final fight was so tense for me lol.
past rune
Yeah, I had the same sort of experience. Blew through to the final boss with a strong safe run on run 11. Died rapidly, and didn't get back until about run 22. Didn't actually win until 27? It's a labor of love
granite ether
ayy congrats Klaus 
oblique quest
I did it on my 38th
brisk trail
congrats! 🥳
oblique quest
I got Life affirmation pretty early in the run and gave me enough health to tank the damage and let Exagryph with the shotgun upgrade do all of the work
oblique quest
Thanks again guys, and to you guys as well!
barren ember
Congrats @oblique quest ! The first of many 😄
fickle jewel
when should i expect the patch release? 
granite ether
Sometime in june aka this month
fickle jewel
gotcha 
drifting flame
So watching my gf enough and her letting me play a bit convinced me to buy my own copy a couple days ago. I've been on 13 runs, and I finally beat the Hydra for the first time today! I'm hype! time to go see if i can get through Elysium-
oblique quest
great job dude
hazy iron
lol aww Lifted-Oriion is me like two weeks ago
void vigil
@white monolith have you gifted 27 nectar? The wiki says that’s a requirement
white monolith
yes
void vigil
That’s very strange then, I’m sorry it’s not unlocking :<
white monolith
did another run afterwards and achilles didn't even appear at all in the house. trying to do one more before i sleep.
bold knoll
Hi everyone, can someone tell me if the saves are sent to a cloud, knowing im using epic games store as launcher ?
white monolith
last ditch effort, but check your microsoft one drive
to see if the folder is backed up automatically
bold knoll
Oh ok, gonna check that, thank you again
drifting flame
I have a question! Im really super excited to meet Thanatos, but i havent found him yet! Are there conversation requirements before i can see him or is it random??
deep pivot
I thiiiink it's random. You will need to make many escape attempts before he appears 
worthy egret
The first time he appeared to me i got so spooked lmao
manic bobcat
I heard that you also need to have hp below 100% as a condition
I'm not sure though
worthy egret
Heard that too
drifting flame
I know Eri met him in elysium the first time, and i can barely get there T-T
empty ferry
[muffled Death Comes from the next chamber]
worthy egret
I also met him in Elysium for the first time
manic bobcat
Asphodel for me
worthy egret
POV you're shopping at hot topic but you hear faint Last Words playing from the changing booth next to you
tall cloak
unhealthy fixation in tartarus 
drifting flame
Aaaaaaaa i got past theseus ksfjzeh
torpid pine
congrats!
hollow heron
gz
drifting flame
Aaand i died lol. 20 total attempts, no sign of Than :c
hallow ledge
im bloody tempted to go beta but at the same time i rather wait it out until it's officially out aaa
trim surge
20 years since last update
granite ether
didn't know 3 months was that long 😛
sharp parcel
it really feels like it
void vigil
I think Thanatos has a chance to show up only after the 20th attempt, but don’t quote me on that
brave thicket
aaaaaaaaa when it has been like 9 years since the last update
narrow hemlock
just wanna mention make sure hypnos has asked about than because that dialogue is actually required and foreshadows his appearance
narrow hemlock
whenever its ready
they will announce in #announcements when there is a date, no one has any further information than that other than the devs themselves
rn tech beta is still going
eternal tangle
yes but i think they must to actualizate us, i mean, if now they say soiemthing like " o sorry now will be on december" i gonna be frustated cause they dont tell us before
sour dust
All we can do it be patient!! 😌
i am also excited
with tatz drip feeding me very minor info
narrow hemlock
@eternal tangle update is still slated this month friend
eternal tangle
Yep, thats what i mean
i dont want to one day play the game check it and they chang eit xD
quaint wind
it's only the 18th, we still have plenty of time
eternal tangle
yes, but time is relative and int his case not inifity
narrow hemlock
well again, the tech beta for the next update is still ongoing rn :/a so update wont be until theyre satisfied with beta i guess
eternal tangle
they are a maizign company so i belive on them
i played all theyr games
Bastion was so handsome
narrow hemlock
we have a week and a half of he month still, plenty of time o/
just shy of two weeks
eternal tangle
at least this cov dosent stop them
remote lily
I would not rush the update as it have brand new rendered. And people having issues with the early version of the Renderer.
You for sure do not want to get update and was not able to play as the game will keep crashing or not even launch for you.
There was a looot of these issues already solved but few are still a thing.
solar scarab
analog crescent
Guys, i think they must buff Guan Yu healing efect from plus 1 to plus 2 or a least plus 3 heal at level max
past rune
Definitely not. Innate healing is very strong, and hitting multiple enemies at once, or even one enemy multiple times is more healing in a room than a mirror talent
void vigil
@solar scarab do you have a source for that artwork? also, those go in #fan-works with credit
eternal tangle
the arthur blade its too slow i think
i mean if u do a run on 10 heat
and u go vs hades whit a build like heavy atacks for insane 1 atack damage
its not enogth to kil him
like, u will die cause the damage u do on 1 atack he give it to you back on 2 3
charred bronze
arthur rely entirely on dash attacks to be viable i feel
that means you need to dash and dodge a lot
gray basalt
still flare
i played arthur with double dash stab and backstab damage, rerolled hermes for extra dashes, and just drive-by stabbed him to death
not the most efficient way to play it I'm sure
little thistle
Does anyone know if there’s a way to check how many fish you’ve caught?
torpid pine
I don't believe there is a way to do that, unfortunately
still tiger
I bet they will implement a way that you can purchase through the house contractor. Like some of the other items you can get regarding how many enemies slain etc
torpid pine
maybe they'll add it to the ||archives/records area||?
still tiger
ahh spoilers! luckily i like spoilers xD
past rune
Sorry sorry, thought the spoiler tag would indicate it's a bit of a spoiler
it's hard to not talk about the beta when you're playing the beta lol
still tiger
I can't wait until we finally get the update. Patience never was a virtue of mine and I'm soooo excited. I'm trying to stock up on all my metacurrencies in preparation 😄
torn pawn
So I came back to playing Hades after a hiatus of 6 months
Im assuming I missed a bunch
But basically; Game is still great. Do we know (approx.) when the game exits EA and goes to consoles?
torn pawn
Well, that sounds great.
Is there any carry-over-progress if we buy in on a different console?
narrow hemlock
probably not, the save data is located locally within your documents
torn pawn
Im not a tech-oriented guy
I thought it was possible that it was in some sort of cloud
or like accountbound
Im hesitant to start playing again when I know my progress has to be restarted on Ps4
narrow hemlock
cloud saves arent supported yet
torn pawn
Darn it.
narrow hemlock
if you want to play it on another platform, its probably better to just wait for the 1.0 launch
torn pawn
Yeah, thats what I figured
nimble ocean
wait, there are another platform versions? i thought there'll be none untill 1.0 release?
narrow hemlock
spirit wanted to know essentially if it was worth playing the game now, on the chance that that progress could be carried over post 1.0 when other platforms are added
thats why i was mentioning that save data is local
granite ether
Hades is only availible on pc atm Volus
sonic sleet
Hay did the newest update for hades come out?
narrow hemlock
no
still flare
I don't see why it wouldn't be worth playing now
granite ether
Nope, not yet, there would have been an announcement if it had officially released ^_^
narrow hemlock
@still flare the user asking is wanting to play on another platform specifically and wanted to know if their progress could be carried over if they play now. point being such a thing is not possible currently, so if someone would prefer to play the game on a different platform besides pc, then no its not worth playing rn
sonic sleet
Ah ok
I'm like REALLY excited for new story updates
Due to how the game is it kind of feels like it's only the start of it
granite ether
Their is a technical beta running atm if you wanted to take part in that
Be sure to read the #test-branch-readme channel first though
smoky rune
Has anyone created a wiki yet for Hades? Keepsakes, boons, etc. Etc?
rough token
yup
smoky rune
Do you have a link?
smoky rune
Ty
rough token
granite ether
one thing, please don't try and update it with any tech beta content
please wait till the official launch of the update
charred bronze
probably for the bests since all in the current beta is subject to wild changes
rough token
yup!
narrow hemlock
ive been keeping an eye on activity, luckily there hasnt been anything since yukine purged the beta stuff off pages.
still tiger
I really appreciate all the work done on the house contractor pages
barren ember
Would anyone try forking the wiki for the beta, and trying to keep up with that firehose of changes?
/me hides
drifting flame
Having watched my gf play so much, i apparently adapt really quick to the game. i managed to get halfway through ||Hades|| health bar before dying 9n my 23rd attempt. The shield is a masterpiece i say
rough token
keep name in spoilers, please
drifting flame
Sorry!! Lemme fix that
granite ether
yeah ||final boss|| is spoilers here
rough token
o7
rough token
congrats, though! (and don't stress it)
still tiger
I love the shield
drifting flame
the shield is SO good; it's my favorite weapon. shockingly, i didn't get the furthest with it first
rough token
it's my fav as well, and the one I do most of my challenges with. I think it was also my first clear? don't remember for sure though
drifting flame
I think I got past Elysium with the sword first?
barren ember
You can say "redacted" as well. That's pretty cool
granite ether
for me fists was my first clear, but not the weapon I got furthest with first
I think that was sword too
drifting flame
i'm hoping to get it before i hit 30 attempts, but we'll see!
narrow hemlock
my first was shield but that was before fists came out. really safe if youre having trouble since you can block a lot of things
drifting flame
yeee
Eri's not surprised that it's my fave; in all the other games I play, I tend to play defensive or protective characters
rancid wyvern
narrow hemlock
i want to love rail but its so clunky for me on controller and i dislike playing it. i have to switch to kbm to have any enjoyment playing it u__u
sterile light
merciful end on shield netted me my first ever clear
bold knoll
hi everyone, i restarted playing hades and i noticed that in the mirror, i couldn't switch anymore, it seems weird to erase a feature like that, is it just my game not updated or something ?
sterile light
there's a key at the bottom now
that resets your investments
idk why they changed it tbh
rough token
oui, I don't think you can switch the mirror right away
bold knoll
im not talking about reseting , just for exemple for the soul, i could have 3 souls or the other power was having it back every 2s
yes
rough token
yeah, you can't do that right away
sterile light
eh OG mirror is better anyway
charred bronze
you need to talk to nyx for that one if i recall
charred bronze
nope
drifting flame
I got the swap after a handful of runs; you just need to talk to Nyx enough
bold knoll
alright, thank you everyone
hearty torrent
Within 5 runs you should get access to the secondary talents.
glass pond
Hunting duos/legendaries really leads me to some bad builds some times. Down to two left though Dio and Dem/Zeus
Also oof on some of them unlock reqs
brisk trail
Am I mistaken about v1.0 coming out this month?
granite ether
No, the blood price update is coming out this month
1.0 is expected later this year sometime
brisk trail
Right, that was it.
charred bronze
geez, the fates sure have something on store for me this run
third run in a row with hammer start, flurry shot in chiron bow, triple demeter, already have the legendary
granite ether
@rich seal #beta-discussion-june20 please
rich seal
oops, mb. thought i was in that channel
granite ether
All good ^_^
tropic onyx
i find the hammer upgrades for the shield to be significantly weaker than the other weapons
rough token
some of them, maybe. I recommend trying out Charged Shot combined with Minotaur Rush
tropic onyx
is that the faster charge with the perfect timing = extra damage one ?
i tried that the other day, i found the damage pretty weak
tropic onyx
ah right, yes that one was pretty nice
rough token
most of them are pretty dependent on what build you're going for, for sure
tropic onyx
yeah, i just feel like the damage potential of the shield is much lower than some other weapons
but then again, it's a shield
rough token
yeah lol
tropic onyx
so maybe it's on purpose..
hollow heron
Shield is imo by far the strongest weapon
So it makes sense that it isn't even more absurd
But yeah the hammers are definitely worse
brisk trail
i just finished my 100th run, of the game (a victory!) and have about 65ish wins or so, i just wanna say how much i appreciate this game and the devs, they updates are on point and i love the communication, i cant wait for release and cant wait to see what comes with it!
tropic onyx
Doing a run with a special build, 4 chaos encounters, and 0 special boons... Come on Chaos!
terse ridge
Hello !
Do you know if Supergiant have any plan to release Epic version of Hades on GeForce Now ?
I would love that !!
Thanks
granite ether
from the #hades-faq
Will Hades ever come to other platforms?
We expect to bring Hades to a variety of other platforms once Early Access is complete. We haven't decided on all the platforms yet.
terse ridge
Thanks @granite ether I checked the faq but didn’t see the info 🙈
granite ether
you're all good, always good to ask if you're not sure ^_^
barren ember
Dae sometimes listen to the secret built in jukebox
opal isle
when is The Blood Price Update coming to Epic ?
sharp parcel
same time as Steam, sometime later this month
still tiger
Does anyone know if there is a design/mythological reason behind the breaking the glass orb to get to the next chamber? I had someone tell me they thought it was a mirror (and thought it was strange because greeks had metal mirrors apparently?), but it looks like an orb to me
sharp parcel
I guess it's a seal of Hades that you break
charred bronze
looks like a very easy to break seal
inland dock
What are people’s opinions on the easiest or best to start with heat modifiers. Finally getting comfortable enough to start climbing heat runs but wanted to see which modifiers are best to avoid until really high heat.
charred bronze
i first thought highten security was free heat, then i realize it affected lava...
inland dock
I really hate lava now...
glass pond
I've been mostly running on Extreme Measures and Underworld Customs, the highest heat I've hit thus far is 3
But I'm also rotating weapons based on what has the darkness bonus
charred bronze
i like heat level 8 with extreme measures 3 and one level of forced overtime
i would say extreme messures 3 isnt for everyone tho
inland dock
I’ve completed a few runs with EM1 which isn’t too bad since I’ve gotten a good groove with Tartarus bosses
inland dock
Does EM affect the final boss at all?
charred bronze
no
glass pond
If I'm using Zeus Shield, I use Damage Control
charred bronze
just the first three bosses
damage control is great on anything not relying on burst damage
it is a big no for hestia
charred bronze
honestly if there was a keepsafe that reads "you dont take lava damage" i would take it 100% of the time
atomic mountain
for pushing enemies into it.
And using the Chaos curse that lobs grenades at you
to hoist other enemies by the dead ones' petard.
charred bronze
forced overtime 1 is actually very easy in my opinion
same for tight deadline 1
takes some getting used to not just standing there thinking
inland dock
I might play around with some combinations but from what I’ve heard forced overtime 2 gets crazy and the health boost or damage increase ones can be a pain since it helps bosses too?
charred bronze
thats correct
forced overtime 2 you really really notice
1 just makes you better actually since enemies attack a bit faster your dodge actually dont have to be so slow
ever dodge and then "oh no i dashed too early and still got hit"
forced overtime 1 fix that
glass pond
Oh, I've been using Benefits Package too, which I think has helped keep things interesting
inland dock
I can see that. If you’ve played dark souls games before it’s like how the hardest bosses are the ones with combo moves with slight delays to bait a dodge out of you. Same happens to me with final boss spin attack
past rune
I always find EM2, TD2, UC, and a few points into HL to be the easiest to start climing heat with
floral shore
My baseline configuration is EM2, BP1, MM, FO2, TD1.
charred bronze
im still on low heat so i run EM3 and FO1 then add more enemies or damage control depending on the weapon
floral shore
Unless you have really incredibly poor DPS or are taking your sweet time knocking over every vase TD1 is essentially free heat. It's really hard to die to it.
MM also doesn't do a lot. Power couple becomes a lot nastier, for the rest of the fights it doesn't make a whole lot of a difference.
vivid moth
Happy Juneteenth everyone!!!
short gate
Yep, lost my save data!
Ah well!
Was a good run, the save data they told me to backup wasn't in my files soooo just figured it'd be fine, but nah, all of it's gone! I've been meaning to start over anyway but yeah, about 115 completed runs
I'll just wait for the update
charred bronze
sounds like a good call, and well now you can start and try to make a perfect run game
every run be a win?
short gate
Could certainly try! Dunno if it'll happen, but yeah I could try
charred bronze
the ultimate challenge, a no loses save
silent flume
I've tried a
"fresh start run" a few times, I get to a certain redacted target and it ends
torn pawn
Which version is ahead? Steam or Epic?
white monolith
i would not trust myself to beat the game with zero mirror buffs 😐
and... using the default weapon
terse geyser
I've tried a
"fresh start run" a few times, I get to a certain redacted target and it ends
You'll get it pretty soon if you keep trying
get merciful end and athena's legendary, and then don't be stupid
although if my attempts are any indication, not being stupid will take a couple tries
charred bronze
i mean beating the game without the mirror means the rest is just easier
worldly sierra
No
sterile light
man
||eurydice||'s song is so soothing
it's a simple arrangement and all the more beautiful for it
and I'm super happy that ||Orpheus is now singing Eurydice's version of the song||
charred bronze
i wish they had even more songs
barren ember
Wondering if Aphrodite's attack on zag bow is better than artemis
I could still go Artemis cast or something and try to get clean kill
charred bronze
do the math, is 15% extra crit chance stronger than the damage porcentage of aphrodite?
clever solstice
theres not much math you can do there because one of the percentages is how powerful something is all the time, and the other is how powerful it can be some times
unless the crit chance is always 100% or 0%, theres a chance that every attack you do in a run will crit, or vice versa
you can do general speculation but theres no direct comparison there
charred bronze
no direct but you can assume 15% means you be doing twice the damage 15 shots out of 100 and compare that increase in damage with the consistent percentage offer by aphrodite
hollow heron
There's entirely maths you can do lol
clever solstice
based on my experience with gacha games i wouldnt count on that 15% being an even 15/100 to save my life
hollow heron
I would
clever solstice
how can you tell me that every attack you perform wont be a crit with the 15%? thats how percentages work. its not a flat increase
again, you can assume all day that itll be roughly 15/100, but an assumption is an assumption
itll always be a rough estimate
hollow heron
????
charred bronze
lol, this is exactly why most strategy games hide some extra percentage in your favor
charred bronze
also i will assume the same is true here
hollow heron
I wouldn't, there's no reason not to tell the truth
clever solstice
hiding percentages makes it even more inconsistent
charred bronze
i wouldnt be surprise if for every shot that isnt a crit, a small percentage increse the chance of the next to be a crit
hollow heron
15% crit chance if a crit does 2x is identical dps wise to a multiplicative 15% damage bonus
charred bronze
and no, it doesnt make it less consistent
brave thicket
a crit does 300% damage if i remember correctly?
charred bronze
game developers hide mechanics like this to avoid the "feel bad" didnt crit in 10 shots moments
clever solstice
ok so tell me what the hidden percentages are then do your math
if we're not told what the hidden stuff is then how can you work with it
thats why its inconsistent
hollow heron
It's easier to assume there isn't hidden
charred bronze
i dont have to, i believe in the fates
hollow heron
Because like I know I don't track crits
I just treat it as a dps multiplicative bonus
charred bronze
also if i wanted to play games to do math i be killing the fun
hollow heron
You don't even need to do strict maths
charred bronze
a basic understanding is enough for me
brave thicket
meh according to our experience the dps with artemis is always higher than aphrodite (most cases), end of story
hollow heron
Artemis is also great because crit chance is multiplicative
clever solstice
im not arguing which is better, i always choose artemis over aphrodite if i can. not that i knew she was a little better in general, i just like crit builds
hollow heron
The advantage of aphro is that you get a status and also sometimes you don't get art
clever solstice
im just saying, like shrew implied, that you cant be for certain no matter what the percentage is unless its 0 or 100. thats why most cases artemis is better
charred bronze
most of the time a crit is enough to compensate the difference
hollow heron
You can be certain
Because you take a theoretical sample set of say 14550 billion hits
And just average it out over that
Law of large numbers
clever solstice
i still dont see how that makes it certain whatsoever. saying that you can make the dps numbers from artemis for certain implies that one run with x weapon and x boons at x level with the crit chance will always be the exact same as other runs with the same weapon, boons, and boon level. which it wont
hollow heron
No it doesn't
hollow heron
Saying "this is effectively an X% damage boost"
You're certain of the X
The X will never change
clever solstice
"effectively" isnt "exactly". that isnt for "certain"
hollow heron
It is though because again, law of large numbers
clever solstice
" It states that if you repeat an experiment independently a large number of times and average the result, what you obtain should be close to the expected value"
"close to the expected value" heavily implies and proves that the value will not always be the same
which is what im saying
hollow heron
Certain here doesn't mean "it will be", it means "it is this much of a boost on average". Nothing with any probability, which includes literally everything in the game can be certain
You can prove chances and be certain of those
clever solstice
"known for sure; established beyond doubt."
so you can establish beyond doubt that every mimic run with the crit chance will be the same?
hollow heron
No I can establish beyond doubt the equivalent damage% bonus that it could be compared to
You're basically arguing "it isn't a 1/6 chance of rolling a 1 every roll"
clever solstice
yes anything in the game can be certain, whats a part of this conversation. aphrodite's percent damage boost. it affects every attack you perform, not some. so you can be for certain that if you take the boon while your standard attack does 100 damage, your damage will then be 125
clever solstice
you cannot argue that the crit chance will make every 50 damage attack 200
hollow heron
No
I can argue that it would make the mean attack in an infinite sample size deal an exact amount of damage
clever solstice
do you attack an infinite amount of times in hades? will anybody ever be able to do that? anybody across all players at any given time?
we arent dealing with an infinite sample size
hollow heron
That doesn't matter
Maths let's us
We get to go "this is the expected value and we are 100% certain of that"
hollow heron
It might not end up being the expected value but we're certain of that value
clever solstice
its not true every single time
hollow heron
It is. The expected value is always the same across runs
charred bronze
it doesnt have to be true all the time, to be the ideal play
clever solstice
true
which is why i prefer artemis
the expected value is the same across all runs sure but that doesnt mean the value you get at the end will meet said expected value
it can and will deviate, often
hollow heron
No but it does mean you can treat it as that
And so you just assume it's that for any kind of calculation or comparison
clever solstice
we're going nowhere here so im gonna drop it. i still am not going to treat the expected as the absolute, ever. i dont want to play off assumptions alone. i dont want to assume that my end dps will be said number
and thats my personal take
sterile light
okay, so
this is an interesting debate, all I can say is
I've tried the GY special crit build and GY special Aph build
where you basically get charged skewer on GY, and then try to make it do as much damage as possible
and 9/10 times I prefer to go aphrodite because the damage is reliably higher than artemis
I initially thought I should go artemis for them big damages
but turns out I was clearing rooms much faster with aphrodite
the high damage you do as a crit chance on average over, say, 15 hits turns out to be lower than or similar to the damage you do with the same number of poms with aphrodite on the special
plus aphrodite applies weak, which when combined with another status curse lets you reliably proc privileged
hence my preference for Aphrodite over artemis 9/10 times for damage
of course, you can grab a couple more boons and artemis can do a lot more damage all of a sudden
but for minimal dependency builds, Aph wins it for me
manic bobcat
Did you get both Deadly Flourish and Charged Skewer though?
sterile light
yep.
told you, same build, just swap out aph special for artemis special
charged skewer is a key component
manic bobcat
Hmm interesting. I'll admit I had like 1 run whee I took Heartbreak Flourish
But that didn't feel nearly as good as Deadly...
Then again, sample size is 1
So you might be right :D
sterile light
indeed, I've been doing nothin but GY special runs for a while xD
crit is inherently less reliable in terms of damage
manic bobcat
That is true
But somehow it feels better critting things xD
I should do some more gameplay before I put forth any further opinion though.
sterile light
yeah I feel ya, big damage numbers feel good
although if you get deadly reversal and the Athena dash
suddenly you've got much more reliable crits
barren ember
That exclamation mark!
sterile light
It's just... there are more dependencies for this build to be as effective with art compared to aph
what mark
barren ember
The number can be smaller than something you get otherwise, and it still feels great
big damage numbers feel good
sterile light
yeah it feels good seeing the health bars go down super fast
barren ember
Oh yeah that feels great too. They're both good feelings
sterile light
hey, what's considered a "fast clear" for 0 heat?
barren ember
I saw someone recently had 14 min and change on aegis
barren ember
I could be remembering which weapon wrong. It was in a screenshot. Yesterday I think
barren ember
It's my fastest for sure
I just had a run where Hades didn't even get the chance to fire his lasers
terse geyser
you'll never guess which weapon has my fastest time
sterile light
Zag sword
manic bobcat
hey, what's considered a "fast clear" for 0 heat?
To me, the fastest that can consistently be done is around 18 to 19 mins.
Lucky fast is sub 15.
Sub 10 is both playing your heart out and having an insane build like 5 rooms into TA.
white monolith
now i am tempted to do some 0 heat "fast" runs to prog my story
sterile light
store?
terse geyser
my fastest clear is 17:15 with zag sword and lambent plume
clever solstice
i saw a screencap of somebody the other day with 13 something