its his hidden pleasure
#h1-discussion
wooden quartz
gilded prism
Virtual self 
jagged beacon
Imagine your dad telling you that he's mad because you died six times today
alpine stratus
"GO TO YOUR ROOM" cracks me up
gilded prism
I see you are a man of culture 
wooden quartz
he hides his early 2000's schranz/hardcore/trance/DDR playlist in a fake calculator app
fallen stump
umm I don't know if this is a right place to ask, but does anyone know if Hades will get a Steam release?
wooden quartz
see #hades-faq
@gilded prism woman, actually, but nice to see someone else with fine taste
pathselector or technic angel?
split current
the only game more intense than hades is farming simulator
gilded prism
@wooden quartz b-but the og quote is "man of culture" I'm sorry 
but yeah, that's great
fiery pebble
Actually, I got it. Orpheus listens to Assemblage 23
gilded prism
@wooden quartz oh and yeah, pathselector
wooden quartz
hel yea
gilded prism
I mixed them up 
but I really like technic-angel's take on Ghost Voices
(ok we should stop with this off-topic here)
hexed smelt
mhm
split current
if were going back to game discussion how do you think you're gonna handle difficulty going forward
higher health bars for enemies?
wooden quartz
angel voice's four on the floor/darkstep/dnb/halftime/schranz drop was absurd and i wish it was the one that had gotten the grammy nomination instead of ghost voices
and yes, let's stop as this is getting OT
fiery pebble
I mean, higher health bars is inevitable
Since you keep getting boons that increase your damage
split current
well of course
fiery pebble
As for the actual difficulty part
split current
But I mean pretty much everyone has armor at the end of the 2nd zone
fiery pebble
Id imagine harder patterns, more enemies, and less chance for errors
split current
If I had to bet I'd say they're gonna give enemies the ability to give you debuffs
stuns, and those debuffs the gods offer
weakness and something else
spice cliff
tfw immediately = within the next century
fiery pebble
Oh you mean like they do in the showdowns in Level 2?
Actually, not just there, I think they do it baseline
I know Aphrodite caused enemies to weaken me
And Ares spawns those blade-whirls
plain musk
Yeah, and god showdown the god you don't pick buffs enemies with their thing
fiery pebble
Poseidon causes enemies to dash forwards in waves
split current
I don't remember I curbstomped them pretty quick
fiery pebble
Only ones I havent seen anything on were Artemis and Athena
split current
before shield got nerfed
fiery pebble
But I guess Artemis gives em crit, which I just wasnt hit by, and Athena causes deflects?
plain musk
Art gives crit and athena gives random invulnerability
split current
if there is some twist I could see that happening
gilded prism
Also I'm pretty they will introduce some kind of "make the game harder for yourself" stuff again
fiery pebble
No items, Sword only, Final Destination
wooden quartz
thinking about it, zagreus' secret pop infatuation wouldn't be stuff like kpop or super mainstream stuff, or even abba
it'd be stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQDzUhHpJ6s
or Shawn Wasabi
hollow heron
The Aphrodite wall scroll is 
gilded prism
nah it would be Poppy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbQsxWKfTSU
wooden quartz
yeah poppy too
he's more like a lorde style pop lover
poppy, tove styrke, lorde, shawn wasabi
cute mellow bops
not really full voiced sinigng
tessa violet, too, probably
marsh inlet
I apologize for stepping into the convo but does Hades take place in modern day, how does he know about pop?
wooden quartz
time in the afterlife moves forward in a sort of jeremey bearimy shape
gilded prism
it all started from greek-pop I guess 
marsh inlet
Greek pop lmao?
wooden quartz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbTfueO9fO8
hades listened to this on repeat for a month when he found it
covert glen
am i the only one thinking the stygian sword is underpowered?
marsh inlet
This jeremey bearimy thing is pretty funny
wooden quartz
THANK GOD I CAN FINALLY DOWNLOAD THE GAME
marsh inlet
Thank you
gilded prism
Until recent patch everything was heavily underpowered compared to shield
slow ravine
Over in balance and tactics, the consensus seems to be that the sword is the worst
wooden quartz
did you look it up and watch the clip? @marsh inlet
covert glen
there's a new patch?
wooden quartz
no i just wasn't able to download the game for a while
because epic's launcher sucks
marsh inlet
Yeah @wooden quartz
covert glen
cuz uh, stygius is stupidly underpowered in terms of the other
weapons
shield is op
glass horizon
what makes shield op? just the versatility?
wooden quartz
@marsh inlet the good place is super funny, you should watch it
slow ravine
Most people seem to think shield is the best. IMO the bow's even better, though.
Spear is kinda meh, sword bad.
marsh inlet
I don't watch shows often but I'll certain put this on the backlog @wooden quartz
gilded prism
bow is super bad imo
covert glen
versatility, capacity to deflect anything whilst charging
slow ravine
But, yeah, #h1-builds-and-combat
gilded prism
like the worst for me
covert glen
yh wrong place
slow ravine
gotta learn how to use it
gilded prism
zero mobility, they should give some way to escape while using it
glass horizon
I thought bow was underpowered, but getting some powerups for the special make it pretty sweet
slow ravine
marsh inlet
It's like Bayonettas bow gimmick in the second game
pale slate
Are we allowed to stream this?
marsh inlet
Lots of kiting
gilded prism
Yeah I know we have dashes but you're defenceless against dudes with bombs and you're just so slow at killing
hexed smelt
@pale slate yes
cedar hollow
I really hope they make a Dusa plush
gilded prism
even Meg feels impossible for me to beat with a bow, she has too much gap-closing
burnt pond
I hope they make a Duda pinup
sterile peak
dusa pinup petition
spice cliff
you know, I just noticed that if you flip back and forth between Orpheus and Sisyphus in the Codex, their pictures are exactly the same except for the colors and faces
cedar hollow
@fiery pebble porque no los dos
gilded prism
I sure do hope they will make all the "face covered with hood" characters look unique
hexed smelt
that's
gilded prism
because all the other characters look too unique
hexed smelt
that's what placeholder art means, scarlet
it's art that's just there to fill a gap untl their real art is finalised
midnight bay
yeah a lot of characters use that but there will be new art later
sterile peak
that and fix ares
gilded prism
I know 
fiery pebble
Whats there to fix about Ares?
hollow bane
Knock knock.
gilded prism
who's there? 
hollow bane
Hades.
hexed smelt
hades who?
hollow bane
.Hades your nuts?
gilded prism
alpine stratus
FHJFHJFCJFCHJFHJFHJFHJFJH
nocturne ore
IS the game too hard on the fingers with a gamepad?
spice cliff
who's there
marble sphinx
i've been using kb+m so far and i find it works quite well
maybe if they made the lockon a bit stronger i'd switch to controller
spice cliff
ha who
go away dad you're embarrassing me!
btw I want to put out a call for people willing to help populate the wiki with pages
it would be really cool to have the wiki fully up now so we could have a record of the game's progress throughout Early Access
but I would need other editors since I can't create an entire wiki on my own
also we might need help from the devs to get hi-res character portraits
spice cliff
okay I added a few placeholder pages to the wiki but it's late and I should go to bed soon
solemn solar
i just want to start by saying Dusa is the bestest most pure being in the world
pliant wolf
*artemis
solemn solar
exuse me?
rich dagger
do we know when hades merch is gonna be available? i need a big ole poster of zagreus in my apartment ASAP
kind atlas
Question, what are people using? KB&M or controller?
pliant wolf
mostly keyboard, but a controller for bow
solemn solar
Kb&M but i might switch to controller if possible
twilit wagon
pure adrenaline
solemn solar
last night i got as far as you can get in the games current state and my left hand was sore af
kind atlas
lolz, it's pretty great 😃
solemn solar
it tiz
kind atlas
Never done early access before but even at it's current state is pretty well worth the price of admission. Keen to see how it develops
solemn solar
same
vocal shuttle
lol, okay, I thought I was going crazy. Glad I finally found the patch notes to tell me the game DID change and my broken strategy WAS patched out.
nocturne ore
.
tulip veldt
@solemn solar dusa is bae
solemn solar
Thank oyu
lime hinge
... Oh, I can't say the word I used? Oh well. Dusa is really adorable.
tulip veldt
I didn't see you try to use a different word lol
solemn solar
I think its a cute touch for her to have a crush on prince Z (at least that my headcannon)
tulip veldt
That's just regular canon lol
lime hinge
It got deleted immediately, because part of the word used what could be seen as a genital.
Which makes sense, but it also led to a 'whoops'
tulip veldt
there might be a filter then. this is supposed to be a T-for-teen server
lime hinge
(I said the last name of the writer of a Christmas Carol.)
brave maple
guys it keeps saying "settings for current profile are corrupted and cannot be read" and I keep losing saves
solemn solar
i kknow but i was worried that someone might be all like "actually, its never explicitly stated...." or whatever
lime hinge
Definitely, that's why I said it makes sense!
brave maple
I can't come back to my last progress
lime hinge
@solemn solar I'd be down to argue it, but it's uh. Sort of stated by way of HEART SHAPED BUBBLES FLOATING ABOUT HER WHEN YOU ARE NEARBY
Just because it isn't said said doesn't prevent it from being obvious.
solemn solar
i know right
lime hinge
As mentioned: frigging adorable.
solemn solar
i wonder what would happen if the prince gave her a kiss o the cheek
lime hinge
A comic ending where she blasts a hole though the roof?
azure verge
is there a subreddit for this game?
lime hinge
And he gets out that way?
lime hinge
Like, it's understandable why he doesn't try to get out via the roof, though... that gives me a stupid mental image.
shell phoenix
So is this game the first one without traditionally painted stuff?
lime hinge
(But where do we submit written typos we've found?)
brave maple
does this game not allow saving after quitting?
prisma wind
@lime hinge In feedback, use the !bug and/or !feedback commands
shell phoenix
It autosaves when you see the red icon
lime hinge
Ah! I'll take a screenshot and do so.
brave maple
@shell phoenix I keep losing my saves
pliant wolf
do you quit in the middle of a run?
brave maple
"settings for current profile are corrupted and cannot be read"
pliant wolf
check the permissions for the folder
brave maple
yeah, I did play for an hour too
pliant wolf
it may not allow it to write
brave maple
like the entire Hades folder?
pliant wolf
yeah, either that or the saves folder
brave maple
where would the default saves folder for Windows be?
pliant wolf
likely in the install directory
ill check on my pc
ok so, for me its in 'D:\Program Files\Epic Games'
for you it might be in your c drive, cause i changed my install directory a while ago
brave maple
my Install directory D:\Epic Games, and \Hades for the game itself
idk how to change permissions, but normally no games would ask me that
tulip veldt
C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\Saved Games
cedar hollow
@tulip veldt was just about to post that. Also your avatar is adorable
tulip veldt
thx ❤
brave maple
I got no saves there
played an hour yesterday and a bit today
played with the settings but the first thing I see when opening the game is still "settings for current profile are corrupted and cannot be read" (after the Early Access notes)
atomic kelp
wooden quartz
i got a popup with what the souls were saying once, and can't figure out how to activate it again?
prisma wind
It comes from the little flashing yellow balls or coins or whatever they are that you will see a circle of shades standing around
When you inspect the yellow flashing thing, it pops up with what the shade is saying and how it died
You'll see the same yellow flashes around the map(s) and they will give details about the area when inspected
lost patrol
did the devs actually nerfed shield to the ground? SwiftRage
wide fractal
bit soon for rage no?
lost patrol
nah i am not raging but it came unexpected. thought they would buff the other weapons and keep shield where it is
wide fractal
yeh, that's true, bit unexpected
hollow heron
Shield was wayy too strong
wooden quartz
Jesus the louts are so hard
coral thistle
honestly shield is still very good
the mobility and defend and quick swipes are A+
prisma wind
Am I just getting really bad RNG, or are god boons no longer spawning in the starting room and just +coin or +hp boons?
cedar hollow
Im still kind of sad they nerfed the 300% attack boon. But yeah its still pretty solid.
brave maple
To anyone who tried to help me with the saves not working: I actually used Window 10 protected folder access on my Documents folder, that's why the game couldn't save
thanks for yall help
strong path
hello chat the shield + dash chain makes me feel very very powerful
wide fractal
hello, mm quick in and out builds are quite nice
cedar hollow
Im more into the slow and hard approach.
wide fractal
I think we're all aiming for the hard part
craggy aurora
I have a question. I really like the supergiant games as finished products and I was wondering if this game is complete story wise. I normally have no issue with early access games but I would like to start the game when I know I can play it till the end. Is the concept different for this game considering supergiant normally doesn´t have early access as far as I know.
topaz jungle
Doesn't even feel close to story complete yet, at least from my perspective. Too many plot threads referenced by other characters that aren't in yet, and the main plot isn't close to resolving. I think calling the current plot a "pilot" like it was in one of the FAQs was pretty accurate.
craggy aurora
That´s all I needed to know. Thanks you 😃
silk tide
Is Hades always going to be exclusive to the Epic store? The terms and conditions on the thing look a little bit heinous.
silk tide
Ah - ta
brisk trail
rip
lost patrol
yo you guys think Orpheus will ever sing again for us?
brisk trail
finally beat meg to get to the new area and the game crashed sending me back to the main area
hollow heron
F
olive jungle
@lost patrol knowing singerly types in SGG games? undoubtedly
brisk trail
big feelsbad it happened twice sent the report in already hopefully it gets patched soon
bouncing shield with 100% on each bounce and double the amount of bounces was hilarious though
got 800 dmg on meg at one point lol
vestal lodge
Oof try validating your game via the launcher. If you reported the crash via the in-game reporter we’ll get on it Monday!
brisk trail
actually didnt even think about that ty morgan
finite mantle
Dude I love this game and even though I've already cleared Hydra with Shield, pre-patch, I want to do it with Sword now + get everyone's Relationship Levels maxed out and just... Play. I'm so happy I got it, and I've seen so many Early Access horror stories.
I would be happy to just play this game in its current state, let alone with updates/a final release eventually.
rose field
Honestly current state is not worth $20. But I know Super Giant Games is an amazing company.
So I took the gamble and loved every second of it so far.
finite mantle
I was also going to file some feedback but both of my main gripes were already covered by other players 😛
dire wave
is it just me or the bow is very very weak and unplayable with
stiff trellis
It's very dependent on builds
dire wave
which build do u recommend ?
stiff trellis
Artemis crit dash and quick fire, I'm pretty certain
Athena special if possible
And the best attack one is probably aphro because big numbers
Paired up with maxed quick temperr if possible
You get some insane damage
Also
What greek mythology weapons could be used other than the current ones?
winter river
copyright infringement case pending*
brisk trail
heracles' club for a slow RoF high damage weapon (possibly with stun or knockback)
dire wave
his axe then
winter river
Rod of Asclepius would be cool
maybe have some built in healing sustain but low damage
brisk trail
I doubt they will add weapons that are associated with healing though
winter river
why?
brisk trail
because conserving your health and spending resources on health items seems to be a cornerstone of rouge-lite design
winter river
it could be balanced for
brisk trail
there is one boon in the game that gives you healing for kills, but it comes with a pretty steep downside
twilit wagon
is there a way to check how many hours you've played so far?
lost patrol
Not hours but attempts
lost patrol
therefore u have to buy the scrying pool
stiff trellis
Wrong mythology nvm
winter river
ya, it seems like Epic decided not to appropriate Steam's shame meter for games :p
stiff trellis
1500 hours on tf2 yeah no kidding
twilit wagon
2.2k hours in WF
winter river
Damn that even beats my 1060hrs in Civ V
stiff trellis
Back to hades stuff?
winter river
ya back to topic
lost patrol
btw guys wouldn't it be great to add rewards for completing story lines with the different Characters. And not just Keepsakes but like unique Items those Characters wear, like achilles his spear or a mini medusa head from Dusa
stiff trellis
Or stuff for your room
lost patrol
ya smthing like that
winter river
Harpe could be a good weapon if a second sword was wanted (Perseus sword)
stiff trellis
Ahhh true
winter river
maybe Dusa gives it too you :p
stiff trellis
That'd be fitting I suppose
dire wave
best god for polarm?
brisk trail
When you max out Dusa's heart bar you can forge her head onto the shield for bonus effects, just like Perseus did
winter river
kronos scythe maybe?
stiff trellis
I was thinking that, but the current weapons were used against the titans, not by them
dire wave
there is one polarm in game, imean what is best boons for it
stiff trellis
That probably goes in gameplay and tactics, my dude
dire wave
mhm
stiff trellis
Heracles also had a bow with arrows dipped in hydra's poison
brisk trail
well, cronos was imprisoned in tartarus, so why wouldn't his scythe show up in the armors down there. It would be an interesting weapon that trades damage for wider area of attack
twilit wagon
a heavy machine gun
lost patrol
like axes
brisk trail
more dakka?
lost patrol
Heracles his Club
pliant wolf
though it wouldnt really fit too well
stiff trellis
The problem is greek mythology doesn't have much else
pliant wolf
i wouldnt mind a slow firing piercing wepaon
they could go into a more magical side
idk if it would fit though
stiff trellis
There are many bows, one of which being that of Odysseus, which he used to fire through the rings of twenty axes shortly before he massacred his wife's suitors
That's probably your slow piercing one
pliant wolf
as far as a new weapon, theres hephaestus's hammer
lost patrol
we need some rly unique abilities for it
pliant wolf
since all of them seem to be modelled after gods weapons
stiff trellis
Ahh of course
lost patrol
thought about the hammer aswell
pliant wolf
i really hope hermes is added tbh
hollow heron
I think another ranger weapon could be neat
pliant wolf
imagine the dash boons he'd give
stiff trellis
Becayse the hammers you find are that of daedalus, creator of the labyrinth
lost patrol
but if hephaestus gets added wouldn't it be wierd if u wield his weapon while he is still alive
pliant wolf
as in some kind of staff
stiff trellis
Another purely ranged and another purely melee
It's worth mentioning that aegis is Zeus' shield
lost patrol
Was*
brisk trail
While I can't think of any mythological daggers (for the double-daggers idea mentioned earlier), keep in mind that bronze-age swords were quite short, so if you really wanted to, you could add two sword of famous heroes and have Zag double-weild them.
stiff trellis
Ah, my bad
lost patrol
he isn't using it anymore
stiff trellis
Odysseus' bow would be a good one
lost patrol
I mean if the devs taking the freedom and adding weapons that are currently used by gods I would be fine but it is strange
stiff trellis
A slow, powerful bow which was granted to him by Apollo
tepid wedge
I don't see the problem of adding dual daggers, I doubt people were running around with a shield without other weapon much
stiff trellis
True
tepid wedge
adding guns and stuffs like that would be weird, but daggers? I think it would fit in
snow mortar
@oak sleet sorry man but I can't even get the launcher to log me in without crashing on linux :(
stiff trellis
But there would have to be a name to give them that would corrospond to mythology
pliant wolf
i wouldnt mind some kind of staff where you essentially rely on your cast
tepid wedge
cast should be way better to be useful 🤔
lost patrol
well there aren't much legendary daggers but it would be cool
brisk trail
Instead of actual daggers it could be the fangs of a mythological beast being used like daggers
stiff trellis
Ah true
twilit wagon
or a whip like meg
lost patrol
yup
twilit wagon
and have a kinky whip off with her fight
lost patrol
whip would be cool as a hybrid weapon
brisk trail
also: exploding sheep launcher
lost patrol
nuke launcher
twilit wagon
causing the events of bastion to occur
tepid wedge
or make Dusa a weapon so you can throw her at enemies
lost patrol
causing ragnarok
stiff trellis
Pelt of the nemean lion except you're just smacking them with it
twilit wagon
just using barefists
stiff trellis
Nemean lion was impenetrable
twilit wagon
and the special is to grapple someone
lost patrol
yo
stiff trellis
OH
lost patrol
monk style
lost patrol
look at warhammer
stiff trellis
Might be better to go with Scylla's
brisk trail
couldn't charybdis swallow ships whole? those fangs in the mealstrom would have been huge
stiff trellis
Or manticore's spike things
lost patrol
wielding a manticore tail
brisk trail
as a whip?
lost patrol
as a club xD
stiff trellis
That'd make for a dope whip
lost patrol
and make some spiky explosions
stiff trellis
Maybe like throwing a bunch of quills in an area in front of you as a special
Like the width of shield bash
lost patrol
hm
stiff trellis
And the length of the spear throw but a bunch of them
lost patrol
Throwable weapons?
throwing medusa heads hah
but it wouldn't work right? since u cant petrify the dead
stiff trellis
Ahh, true
lyric scroll
has anyone had a problem with the cursor disappearing?
lost patrol
in which case?
lyric scroll
as in, it has disappeared (i dont remember at what point it did) and ive tried reloading it and its still gone
stiff trellis
Yeah idk man
lost patrol
post it in feedback
tepid wedge
i didn't notice a single bug so far 🤔 weird, I expected to see some
oak sleet
@snow mortar use lutris and the fortnite installer..
lost patrol
actually I didn't got a single bug. at least nothin gamebreaking
lost patrol
I WANT MORE BUGS
tepid wedge
yeah when I bought an early access title I expected to have some
hollow heron
I've got oob
oak sleet
@snow mortar then in the setting of the lahncher aftet you login and it updates..find a setting to go back to the old version
modest glade
I just had a crash QQ
lost patrol
ikr? and then there are games that are being released official and got more bugs
snow mortar
I used lutris but only came to the login screen it crashed trying to log me in
oak sleet
@snow mortar used the fortnite installer?
snow mortar
that I didn't do, I'll try that
oak sleet
yeah it has some tweakd in it..dunno if the entry for epic launcher is the same
stiff trellis
@game devs We bought the early access and it was actually good! I didn't get what I payed for, instead of a buggy mess with three minutes of gameplay I actually enjoyed it
lost patrol
can we actually get Hades on Switch?
pliant wolf
^^
brisk trail
is the hydra the last thing we get to fight or theirs more?
stiff trellis
Well
lost patrol
currently not
stiff trellis
Technically it's the last seven things
hollow heron
It can be the last one thing if you do it right
pliant wolf
it is in this version
brisk trail
just curious does any watch this game on twitch im a streamer but the game doesnt seem popular on twitch
pliant wolf
theres probably going to be another added in the next updrate
lost patrol
Next big update in 36 days?!
brisk trail
when its a wonderful game
tepid wedge
i wonder how big that update will be
pliant wolf
i think its because its pretty early in developement
tepid wedge
new weapon pls 🙏
lost patrol
well
pliant wolf
and also a lot of other people are commited to other game atm
lost patrol
pubg is also pretty early in dev
azure crow
So I've just started playing, on my first run through I only managed a few rooms... Now I've gone back to the home I can't do another run... where do I go?
I picked up the bow and then went top left to the green bit, where he talks about going through Tartarus... but I can't click on anything
pliant wolf
ok so
lost patrol
try escaping through a window 😉
pliant wolf
just go to the purple doorway at the bottom left of the training room
that will start you on another run
azure crow
Thanks... I tried exploring that, but I swear I didnt get the escape option
anyway... this time it worked
😄
thanks all
lost patrol
btw what are the legendary boons? I managed to get 2 in one run but never got anything after
stiff trellis
It's a learning curve
pliant wolf
legendary boons are generally something thats pretty good and incredibly unique
for example, zues's one makes a 60 dmg lighting orb when another is spawned
livid comet
Does anyone else have problems with save files not syncing between devices?
lost patrol
since i only got the artemis and athena one
pliant wolf
whats the athena one?
pure robin
$19,99 is a price of that game?
olive jungle
Yes
lost patrol
@livid comet go to #hades-tech-fixes-old
pure robin
@olive jungle Oh cool
tepid wedge
for me it was 15 darkness iirc, costed 11 hp to enter, but I regained +6 as I gained +3 when enterred. +3 when left
snow mortar
@oak sleet sorry mate, I've tried everything, it always crashes for me when trying to log in, might be an arch issue, I'd just wait until the game releases if you don't want to play on windows
modest glade
so does it jump over rooms? or just add in as an extra?
tepid wedge
idk
limpid vault
Shield no longer deflect?
modest glade
i think you need athena upgrade for deflect
runic thicket
What does displeasing gods do? Like, if I have a choice between two in the same room and I choose one over the other
pliant wolf
it spawns a lot of enemies
modest glade
the other one gets pissed and bless your enemy lol
pliant wolf
and a few times ive seen them get boons form the gods
modest glade
but youll still get to choose after you clear the room
so youll get 2 upgrade in 1 room which is pretty good deal imo
pliant wolf
theyre generally at the lowest level of boon though
runic thicket
Yep, they get boons, just had a bunch of witches surge at me
hollow heron
Imo they're always worth it
brisk trail
I have all unlocked. What I can do with the keys?
polar linden
look at them fondly
tepid spindle
omg i slain Megaera for the first time, amazing feelings 😄 especially that i did it with bow and cast build 😄
modest glade
yeah it feels great when i beat meg the first time too but then i got a crash right after....
vital pier
brisk trail
a suggestion: the keys can be sold by darkness
pliant wolf
another use for keys could be that ones collected in run can unlock doors to items in the blood gates
tardy patio
Someone probably asked this before, but I just heard of Hades, so...
Is it going to be on Steam? All of the other games are.
tepid wedge
tardy patio
Oh, well, the faq here is different than the one on the website.
That question about platforms is not included
warm laurel
in short: most likely yes, after early access is over
tardy patio
Anyway, I bought it already 😄
Usually I stay away from early access, but the other games are all good, so I'll trust in the devs 😃
hidden agate
Wow I just beat Hydra with the bow, and it's the first time I beat it. I'd never imagined it would be with this weapon
oak sleet
@snow mortar im on arch also..well on antergos.. so thats not the issue
faint zenith
gg RedSpine, what was ur build ? :o
snow mortar
can't get around it crashing while trying to log in
iirc they're gonna support "open platforms" in 2019
so we'll see
hidden agate
I had the Ares Curse on normals, and with the hammer I shot 3 arrows in a cone. Plus Bolt Shot from Zeus (I love it). Artemis Critical Strikes on dashes, 125 health and Distant Memory for more range damages 😃
Ares Curse was buffed to 120 damage though xD
marble sphinx
i've only managed to reach the hydra once even
olive jungle
i've only gotten past meg twice 😭
my last, like, 4 runs have had practically no boons at all
rng is so frustrating...
and then my game crashed while i was on track to beating her a third time lol
tepid wedge
i had the same, no boons for like 3 runs
i only defeated Meg once tho
the thing after looks pretty hardcore
tepid wedge
There is no escape
"did you try buying a new computer?"
olive jungle
yeah, the game still has a lot of issues with lag in enemy-heavy areas, plus asphodel has lava and smoke animations on top of that
they're constantly tweaking the optimization, but for now it's just. Like This
hexed smelt
i've gotten to chamber 24, i've made it past meg twice
sudden zinc
what room is meg? i can get past consistently now OwO
but
the lava room is pain
too many projectile
olive jungle
i actually like the bigger lava arenas; more room to maneuver
oak sleet
@snow mortar hmm..shame..if I got a steam key i would totaly pay 20euros for the game :/ cause if epic client stops workinf i'm doomed
olive jungle
Nusuey, the game is DRM free
you don't need the epic client in order to run it
Only to update it
snow mortar
^ that and it'll probably be on steam when it comes out
olive jungle
And if it somehow dies in the middle of SGG's early access I'm sure they'll find another way to push updates
snow mortar
and I think epic has plans to support linux
olive jungle
yeah but the bow is such a draggg in the early rooms
fiery pebble
Only challenge is beating it with Sword
snow mortar
nice to see that this game is again using monogame
oak sleet
wish the game had a linux build.. or at least a windows demo, so I could just try it shortly in wine.. also IF the game will have a linux release I wont get the client via epic store
snow mortar
yo who hardcoded a backslash instead of using Path.Combine https://learning-julia.might-be-super.fun/07c992.png 
so short answer NuSuey, it won't run
it could theoretically run natively without wine, but that'd require some tweaking from what it looks like
and it complains about not finding a file in wine https://learning-julia.might-be-super.fun/2c2156.png can't see which tho
quite a bummer
hexed smelt
i thiiiink meg is consistently the 16th chamber you face? when i was stuck on her for a long time, my "max chambers" thing said i'd gotten as far as 16, so
oak sleet
will see.. just afraid of buying it and figuring out it wont run in wine..oh btw if you got it installed on windows..uhm just try to run the executable in wine @snow mortar?
tawny pollen
The most damage I’d ever seen was 2500 from a random shield bounce
Anyone else seen numbers like that?
hexed smelt
think the most i've gotten was..... 450, something like that?
i had a shield with 300%-no-knockback, 75%-damage-more-knockback, and artemis' crit chance
tawny pollen
Invest hydra with the shield before the nerf. Hitting 750 with crits and was taken by surprise that there wasn’t more. Game still feels challenging and I wanna master the different weapons and try more
unique cove
I can only gone to hydra wit sword build... : /
cobalt maple
wow Supergiant makes q new game and i totally didn't see that
now i'm torn between loving supergiant and throwing their money at them vs not wanting to buy early access games
tardy patio
You want to throw their money at them?!? 😄
pliant wolf
its worth it imo
snow mortar
^
pliant wolf
even if its short atm, its v polished for an early access
tardy patio
If they put in the same attention like they've done before, it will be good
tepid wedge
it's already good 😄
tepid wedge
did you try to look for the save files and copy manually? 🤔
that's what I used to do like 13 years ago, before steam 😂
snow mortar
that's definitely a possibility but cloud sync is a nice feature and stuff
tepid wedge
yeah, hopefuly the store/SGG will add it later
snow mortar
yea
late elm
Can someone help me out, I'm probably dumb, I have no idea how to use my pro controller with the game.
void vigil
@late elm did you check #hades-tech-fixes-old?
late elm
Yep I did, here the catch:
If steam support is turned off, the controller doesn't work straight up (no drivers). So in order to avoid downloading third party drivers for which I have no idea if they work, I manage to make the game detect my controller by launching it through steam as a non steam game
Basically I'm forcing it to use Steam drivers because they work and I'm lazy to look for other drivers on the net 😄
It's a workaround
snow mortar
I'm launching hades through steam too as I have a steam controller works pretty well
charred yoke
How do you beat the Bone Hydra?
Using the shield, and everytime I miss and it goes flying off screen, it takes ~10 seconds to respawn in hand. Even when it hits, it ricochets off screen, and again, ~10 secs
void vigil
wheat ermine
hey, without any spoilers, is there any actual reason in the game rn to give people more than one gift?? like do you get special events or something for doing it?
void vigil
ive seen that someone here got a special event for it, but havent had the chance to gift someone enough times myself
late elm
"I need more darkness". Such an edgy teen 😄
void vigil
might be better to gift everyone first
wheat ermine
yeah, that's what i'm planning on haha, just wanted to see if i should get my hopes up or not
hexed smelt
i gave everyone a gift and now i'm just giving em to the people i like
sharp surge
is artimis and orpheus place holder art?
real narwhal
I just bought and played a bit, this is the best gameplay in a SGG game yet
and i love this concept of homestuck combined with roguelike
got a crash, but thats expected at this point
sharp surge
thanks for the response sparrow
wheat ermine
yeah, balance issues aside this is definitely the most fun i've had with the actual gameplay of a SSG game
i love all of the characters too, though not quite as much as i did in pyre (so far, at least)
real narwhal
the gameplay feel alone is top notch
yeh the most worrying thing for me is story and music
but the voice acting is amazing
wheat ermine
really?? i agree about story but i LOVE the music of the game
real narwhal
i havent played enough to judge the music too much yet, am sure its going to be good
cuz darren korb is darren korb
but like , is it going to be as good
its super subjective though
ok ma impressed, i crashed, i was like "oh well have to do that run again" but nope, the game did an autosave before crashing
thats really helpful
wheat ermine
so far i wouldn't say it's AS good just because there aren't any vocal tracks (yet, there 100% will be before the game's out), but the instrumental pieces are on par wth all of their other games imo (that is to say, amazing)
real narwhal
yeah thats very true
also just realized
this is the first time we have a voiced protagonist
brisk trail
music is my favourite so far, it aligns more with the type of music I usually listen to on my own time
and yeah I really love the voice acting
broken fern
why isnt all of it on spotify yet
brisk trail
meg is best girl tbh
i think its unfinished in its totality/they want the album to coincide with the full release probably
broken fern
that makes sense i guess
brisk trail
been revisiting the youtube playlist a lot haha
hexed smelt
grats!
trim shuttle
Hello I'm having trouble with the latest patch that came out! It looks like it won't download even if I restarted the epic client and turned off and on the update setting
tepid wedge
i kinda feel it is too much on rng right now
topaz pollen
@trim shuttle You can speak about your bug in the tech support channel :)
trim shuttle
yeah 😛 tried but had no chance there so I thought maybe someone could share his experience
topaz pollen
😎
tepid wedge
lol just died in the first chamber after Meg
i have to try to build my char to that area I guess
hot wyvern
Transistor combat still best tho
real narwhal
transistor combat was m
real narwhal
it was my least liked
sudden zinc
i heard only good thing and i loved pyre and bastion
although i didnt get the chance to finish
cause my attention span is low
alpine stratus
id rank my fave combat as transistor>pyre>bastion>hades....hades feels like bastion/pyre combo im just not used to it yet
sterile peak
for me its hades>transistor>pyre>bastion
Hades just feels so much more refined than bastion
sterile peak
lol I played bastion with 10 idols, now that is hard
void vigil
i only did that when necessary for achievements
hot wyvern
Id like to see the idol system in hades
void vigil
spare some video game talent for the rest of us smh
hot wyvern
Just copy & pasted is good enough
sterile peak
nah the real challenge in hades comes from trying to get a Perfect Landing each run
wheat ermine
i accidently got a perfect landing once and i have NEVER been able to do it again and i am very distraught about it
real narwhal
for me its hades>pyre>bastion>transistor combat wise
void vigil
whats a perfect landing?
wheat ermine
if you press a at the right time at the start of the run when zag is falling, you get text that says "perfect landing"
i don't think it actually does anything lol
void vigil
huh
brisk trail
lol
void vigil
what would the keyboard equivalent of a be
brisk trail
what does a do on the controller normally?
sterile peak
space
brisk trail
there we go
sterile peak
it's the dash button
late elm
I am constantly running into pots and other geometry when I dash and then I die 😦
alpine ore
so how many runs and how many enemies has everybody vanquished so far?
real narwhal
just asking to be sure if its just me, i keep getting the exact same crash error very commonly for array out of bounds,is it just me
alpine ore
im on 60 runs and just like right above 3000 vanquishes xD
red flame
hey guys is there any link to a press kit with wallpapers for the game?
void vigil
26 runs, 2119 foes slain
@red flame http://www.supergiantgames.com/games/hades/
theres a zip file with a bunch of stuff here
red flame
@void vigil thanks a ton!
brisk trail
im on 34 and around 3600 I think
keep getting right to the end of asphodel and dying lol
wheat ermine
i'm on run 24, i've been able to get to the last boss once and got him done to like 1/8 of health before dying lol
and absolutely
hades was definitely made with a controller in mind imo
amber helm
Cool, I'll get mine then
brisk trail
it works well on pc too though so i'd try both if it doesnt click
vale kite
i'm on run 16 and i think im doing pretty good so far
brisk trail
mouse and keyboard rather
amber helm
That menu music though 👌
hot wyvern
Good 
brisk trail
Through Asphodel has some bits that sound straight out of a melvins song lol
frigid dragon
Can I stream the game? (I'm asking because it's early access, so idk)
nvm just read the hades-faq last line
mortal oak
So, is Hades coming to Steam? Asking because I have a Steam Controller, just wanna know how it's gonna play with it if it's not on steam and so on
sterile peak
after it releases, yes
mortal oak
Thank you
cobalt maple
@mortal oak don't know if it will work but you could try adding it as non steam game to steam
eager tide
Hey, don't know if it's the place to ask, but why sometimes before a new run you get a screen with written "Brat" or "Dog" or whatever with Hades threatening you in off-voice ?
vale kite
yeah i got some like "death and i" "nowhere"
split verge
how long will this be in early access? i've ruined myself on countless other games like dead cells, darkest dungeon, by playing them in early access so i want to wait this time around.
sudden perch
@split verge I wouldn't wait, I played all those Early Access and this is significantly better in all aspects
hot wyvern
Its more like youve seen most of the content already so the finished release becomes less exciting
Rather than bouncing off because the game is in a busted state
Dead cells was always quite polished too
Its supergiant so I buy...... But its a valid concern for some
@split verge dont think theyve given an estimate yet
void vigil
the FAQ says at least a year and a half
hot wyvern
Oh fair enough
tulip veldt
He got plenty of calcium when he was alive
snow mortar
he's a good boy who always drank all of his milk
quick cedar
Why does he have a semi-Italian accent tho
honest raft
the amount of unique and contextual dialogues kinda blows my mind, we have gods mentioning other gods encountered during the same run, waaat
vale kite
the amount of dialogue as a whole
minor warren
I mean there are like six gods though
void vigil
yeah!!
reef sleet
yeah supergiant is always good about putting in fun dialouge
vale kite
basically you have to choose between two gods for a boon and the one you dont choose cries because you didnt choose them and summons a bunch of monsters with their signature abilities
void vigil
I got one with poseidon and athena
vale kite
and when you beat the monsters they're like "oh there's no time for that, we're friends again lol"
like hey you tried to kill me
reef sleet
yeah greek gods are the pettiest beings ever
vale kite
i chose artemis over athena once and she was like "ugh i see you don't want of my help even though i try so hard and hard, then perish"
minor warren
Better then can someone tell me why sword is such garbage in it's current iteration?
I mean I didn't check if rightclick gives you Iframe for entire duration of the move
But even if it does it has miserable dps, bad aoe, no ranged option, combo is lackluster and does not reward you for finishing it
Like the shield after the nerf is still magnitudes better
vale kite
i think it's because it's your starter weapon and they dont really expect you to use it later on
like on your very first run it's like they absolutely want you to die somehow
anyway what's with its special attack like
you just plant your sword in the ground and t-pose
minor warren
Ahh yes, meme value
vale kite
awesome
minor warren
Forgot about it
reef sleet
yeah the special is super bad
vale kite
exclusive dialogue when you beat meg with the t-pose move
minor warren
Man I freakin wish
solar coral
So how do you download hades? I bought it on Epic Games Launcher, and it just says “owned” how do I actually play it
vale kite
it's in your library
minor warren
I think you go to the Library section and press Install
solar coral
When I went there it doesn’t show
minor warren
But every time I look in me EG library I see Unreal Tournament and start feeling bad
Third tab from top
Not counting EG logo
minor warren
That's weird
solar coral
When I got to the page for Hades it says “owned” and then sometimes “Install”
But clicking on install doesn’t do anything
It just switches to preparing for a sec then back to Install
So now I’m pissed
solar coral
Yeah
minor warren
Welp, I guess that's an opportunity to compare speed of response from EG to Steam ones
Support, that is
solar coral
Yeah, steam always gets back to me like the world depends on it
But we’ll see how Epic does
honest raft
what's up with all the people on steam who say that SG guys "betrayed" them by putting Hades on epic store first
just make an account and you're good to go
winged oar
People are hating on the epic game store just because "muuuh fortnite"
brazen lake
thats implying theres an actual thought process to it
minor warren
I mean regional prices on EG are kinda worse than in Steam
brazen lake
THATS a fair piece of criticism
minor warren
I think Pyre on release was around 20 bucks too, which was like 550 roubles in Steam store
brazen lake
but its not the one i usually hear
minor warren
Now Hades is same 20 bucks but 900 roubles
brazen lake
thats pretty messed up
minor warren
I also heard some Brazilian commenter on reddit saying that it costs almost like GTA V on release
But can't check that one out I guess
brazen lake
yeah that should definitely be changed, but i dont usually hear about that when people say the epic games launcher is bad
honest raft
on Polish store the game is like 13$
brazen lake
they usually just say its bad without saying anything to back it up
or just saying that theyll stick to steam
which is really stupid
minor warren
Also steam has a guaranteed refund policy which can help some people who are not already Supergiant fans
brazen lake
there are definitely a bunch of good things about the steam store, i wont deny that
minor warren
Because there is no chance I would pay 15$ for a roguelite in Early Access if I never played SG games before
brazen lake
but its really unhealthy for steam to not have any competition
minor warren
At least without trying it
Yeah, that's right
But it's more of a developer-sided unhealthiness
brazen lake
even though i mostly use steam im glad that theres a real contender coming out for it now
minor warren
Customer-side Steam offers almost everything you need
But it's not like Epic won't be able to make refund policies and better social system
Oh, and Achievements
I loved me some SG achievements in previous games
Shame there are none in Hades, at least for now
tepid wedge
Meg is not always in the same chamber cause sometimes I can chose to face her already or go another way
hexed smelt
her door shows up as an elite darkness-reward door, you might've just seen, like, a normal elite darkness-reward door?
tepid wedge
isn't it always just one before her? the skeleton twins?
would be so cool to have a chamber counter 😢
void vigil
i think the skeletwins are in 8 and shes in 16, no?
it would be cool to have a chamber counter in the pause screen or something
tepid wedge
sometimes the skeletwins are optional tho
void vigil
yeah
but generally, if you encounter them i think it might always be chamber 8
ive gotten to meg once without seeing them but the rest of the time they were always there
sterile peak
usually it's easy to tell which room Meg is in, I always find her in an elite darkness after a shop
minor warren
Yeah, also the floor in the room before Meg usually has specific squareish pattern
minor warren
Not likely
You never see her before the fight, nor she presents any sort of sensible story change or twist
tepid wedge
just killed her third time
aphrodite dash is nice
actually I equipped the stuff which makes aphrodite boons stronger
because I had enough of not having boons at all
and it made her appear
i need tripple dash tho 🤔
tepid wedge
25/27 😂
void vigil
@atomic flame how many wall scrolls are there currently? is there a 3rd one that's really rare?
oh thanks!
I was just wondering how many are in there now
because someone here said he saw a third, but looks like I can finally stop focusing on money and start focusing on getting farther :’)
vale drift
Btw I should've posted that in #h1-story-discussion, will do so there.
plain lantern
Sorry if this has already been addressed, but are there plans to have more detailed stats than what's shown in the fountain? Maybe a detailed breakdown of individual runs or at the very least overall time played? The latter in particular would be nice since Epic Store doesn't track that.
vale drift
Amlabella, definitely something we've been thinking about. The Scrying Pool is an initial take on exposing some interesting stats in the context of the game and I imagine we'll end up adding more over time.
plain lantern
Cool, thanks for the response Greg!
radiant star
The next major update is in 30 something days 😭
brazen lake
i know this is something you probably wont answer, but it seems like a bunch of people agree with me that armor as it currently stands is boring at best and frustrating at worst. do you guys have any plans to change that mechanic greg?
radiant star
does that mean that there'll be smaller updates more often? just bug fix updates?
brazen lake
well we just had a small patch yesterday so probably yeah
radiant star
damn
vale drift
@brazen lake I haven't seen consensus on that feedback personally. We're open to feedback on all aspects of the game.
radiant star
I agree tbh
brazen lake
i posted it on feedback and got a few ➕ reactions
vale drift
@radiant star We'll have smaller updates for sure and expect more this coming week, though we'll have major updates on a regular basis.
twilit wagon
this game needs fortnite dances
brazen lake
thanks for the answer greg
radiant star
perfect, thank you greg! @vale drift
@twilit wagon hahahahahaha
epic gamer moments default dance
brazen lake
when the game is fun its super fun, and the voice acting, artwork, music and all that stuff is wonderful as always
radiant star
@brazen lake oh yeah the game is amazing and in EA, very few dev teams have that ability. I love Supergiant games so much wow
scarlet wolf
I’m guessing this has been brought up, but... will there be Ashley Barrett songs in Hades?
radiant star
@scarlet wolf oooooo that's a good question
twilit wagon
probably a spoilers song
deft fossil
yes please!
potent tapir
is ashley barret the singer in transistot?
brazen lake
who knows, maybe ashley is gonna be the voice of [SPOILER CHARACTER]
scarlet wolf
Just a yes would be suffice, no need to know when or for what
twilit wagon
Dusa
brazen lake
yes
potent tapir
then i would love that
scarlet wolf
Lol
vale drift
@scarlet wolf We've always loved working with Ashley! I'd say keep your fingers crossed on that one.
potent tapir
i still listen to transistor songs very often
brazen lake
dusa and zagreus duet 
radiant star
@potent tapir We all become one 😻
brazen lake
ashley songs are always great, certainly hoping for more of that
twilit wagon
dusa probably going to be my first character to max
potent tapir
when you speak i hear silence
brazen lake
personally i really like nyx
scarlet wolf
I have a playlist for all songs in the 3 games as workplace background
vale kite
hades supergiant please let me give more bottles to meg
brazen lake
i can appreciate that dusa is the comedic relief, but i personally dont like her that much
vale kite
she's always busy talking to other people now
potent tapir
honestly am i the only one that really likes hypnos
vale kite
i tolerate him
twilit wagon
give bottles to narrator
brazen lake
i could take him or leave him
scarlet wolf
Not really liking him... I like Cerberus the most
twilit wagon
narrator needs some love
potent tapir
hmm ill take that as a yes then
scarlet wolf
Lol
brazen lake
the doggos are always the best characters
potent tapir
i love the dry narrator describing the dog
so good
is the narrator in one of the locked rooms with a CCTV system
vale kite
for me it's dusa=meg>orpheus>cerberus>achilles>hypnos>nyx>skelly>dades
potent tapir
that would explain a lot
north cloak
Narrator is my favorite
signal spoke
my favorite narration so far was him describing how messy zag's room was xD
vale kite
the one where he spoils the hydra boss fight in the room just before
and zag telling him to shut up
potent tapir
or when he does the big spoiler in the night scene
twilit wagon
look at this guy, getting all the way up to hydra
wet reef
I wonder who the narrator is
so far only the MC seems to hear him
or maybe everyone just hears him
twilit wagon
ill just be glad if i make it all the way to the ferry of scary
radiant star
I love Achilles the most
wet reef
But he tells them different things
hexed smelt
zag seems under the impression everyone else can hear
radiant star
also Aphrodite is hot af can we just agree there
minor warren
Ehh
vale kite
add a t before hot
hexed smelt
since he tells the narrator to shush when he's being a Sneaky Boy
radiant star
@vale kite hahahaha
minor warren
@vale kite ABSOLUTE TRUTH
twilit wagon
you talk about aphrodite, but have you seen Artemis?
wet reef
I think Aphrodite is so very well captured as a goddess of beauty but not really presented in a sexual pose even though she's completely naked
minor warren
Artemis best Olympic girl
potent tapir
nyx best girl
wet reef
on that note Zeus and Poseidon serve the LOOK 👀
twilit wagon
damn, that placeholder portrait fine
radiant star
@minor warren I havent gotten to see her yet soz XD
twilit wagon
👌
vale kite
ideal future where once you reach max relationship with charon he starts speaking in Ye Olde English
minor warren
It already sounds like Olde English to me though
vale kite
"oh you could actually speak all this time"
wet reef
He actually speaks with an extreme Country bumpkin accent
north cloak
When we getting a Giclee Hades from Jen Zee?
twilit wagon
he's actually danny devito
vale kite
he needs all that ambrosia to clear his throat
wet reef
I always think you just
throw the ambrosia at them
radiant star
wait so can you give the bottles multiple times? what benefit does that give if you get the keepsake after the first bottle?
radiant star
ah okay
brazen lake
id be ok with exchanging them for smooches tbh
radiant star
oooooo nyx nyx
wet reef
Headpats
twilit wagon
no incest
wet reef
I feel like, given the setting, everything would be incest
radiant star
incest is wincest
wet reef
It's greece we're speakin about here, everyone is kinda related to everyone
espescially the gods
twilit wagon
what, next we'll have a cow character to romance?
radiant star
yeah its so true
brazen lake
boy
twilit wagon
BOI
cedar hollow
Dusa is best girl
twilit wagon
me gusta? more like me dusa
cedar hollow
shes so cute. I just want to protect her
twilit wagon
just have a dusa pillow to sleep with at night
brazen lake
if i was zagreus id just make head puns at dusa
wet reef
it's just a regular head pillow
twilit wagon
dont get a-head of yourself there
brazen lake
you gotta keep a cool head for situations like this
brisk trail
Still no supergiant dating sim ? That's not very cash money of supergiant
twilit wagon
be careful with these puns around her, or she'll give you a stone cold look
who said this wasn't a supergiant dating sim
brazen lake
Bulgroz is about 500% right
and i think thats how math works
still a bit disappointed there are no philosophers in this game
at least of the characters i have met
scarlet wolf
Not yet I guess
brazen lake
i know its based around greek mythology and not greek culture
brisk trail
What's the point of philosophy in hell : it could be worse oh w8
scarlet wolf
There’s only one NPC encounters for now, and 2 chambers are locked, clearly more stuff is coming
brazen lake
but we should at least get to meet plato or socrates right?
id even be ok with just seeing diogenes yelling obscenities at me from a barrel
with like a very small % chance of spawning in any given room if i have done the right things first
hey, you could have stoicism in hell
sysyphis seems like a follower of stoicism tbh
brisk trail
Diogenes steals your coins and throw them in lava
scarlet wolf
Oh you mean actual philosophers...
brazen lake
he'd probably just tell you off for using weapons in the first place when you have perfectly functional hands
yeah ancient athens was big on philosophy
although theyd probably be in the later areas of the game
scarlet wolf
Sorry not a fan. I feel it breaks the myst feeling a bit