h1-discussion

[naive flicker]

this is my first 32

[serene sparrow]

13 mins with the fists is real
It’s the only thing I can Speedrun with XD

[gray apex]

It’s quite good

[naive flicker]

tried doing it demeter fists but died to asterios

and had 1 run on hestia

but was like fk it limme try

[gray apex]

Theres no chance I find mine but I think i got decent advice at that point so my pact and build were good

[naive flicker]

i didnt know about the auto aim on keyboard till someone told me

which motivated me to play hestia finally

[gray apex]

It’s a game changer ye

[naive flicker]

lmaoo yea i was so surprised i had the timer off i was just having fun with demeter

then tried to ego 32 heat with demeter

turns out i actually need to dodge bosses and not run away and shoot with chiron

ive done em4 twice now at low heats and goddamn i dont think im ever taking it to high heat

like it takes so long how tf do you save enough time?

[gray apex]

It’s a rough fight but it feels so rewarding when you take it on high heat lol

[naive flicker]

i can only imagine

[gray apex]

After so many attempts the normal fight doesn’t get the heart rate pumping

[naive flicker]

lmao

i actually was really nervous

just forget about the green skulls

[indigo badge]

you can avoid em4 until +50 heat

[naive flicker]

is that optimal

[gray apex]

50 heat, good build, 2 sack, good timer, combined with EM4 music and you’ll be pushing 140 bpm lmao

[gray apex]

If you wanna win yea ig

[indigo badge]

the fight is very hard at high heat so yeah it's a viable option

[naive flicker]

are you just doomed if you dont get a 2 sack

[gray apex]

Often times yea

You don’t have enough time

[indigo badge]

3 sack can also cut it close sometimes

[naive flicker]

lmaooo is that your pb heat?

[gray apex]

Nah

[naive flicker]

FO2 EM4 ahh yes

i was watching healian 58 heat run and i was more nervous than him with the timer ticking

[gray apex]

I think it’s a bit sad that if you wanna win you should avoid it. You don’t end up learning the fight but it is what it is

[naive flicker]

he said sub 5 mins is not good for hades

like holy sh1t

[naive flicker]

what is it then?

[naive flicker]

can you not use mods to practice the fight?

i havent installed any mods

[gray apex]

55

[indigo badge]

yeah, i spent 3 hours in a row practicing on a savestate to prepare for it in actual runs

[naive flicker]

odd number

[gray apex]

It’s a bit annoying with mods I think savestates is easier

It’s a breakpoint for some weps

[indigo badge]

you can just use the save manager from speedrun.com

[naive flicker]

oooo savestates

[gray apex]

I was practicing for 56 at some point but gave up on it

[naive flicker]

for now im a bit thankful that i dont have to deal with him but i understand how it wouldve been a lot cooler if it was more viable

[naive flicker]

whats the one heat youre adding?

and on what aspect i never asked

i think once you get to the 50s sword and spear get crossed out im assuming

you got demeter rama zeus and hestia eirs?

[lavish sorrel]

checks heat-sheets yep that tracks

[gray apex]

I have 55 on both Rama and Beowulf. The 56 was supposed to be Rama with RI0 EM4 which is why I never got to it

[naive flicker]

damn

[lavish sorrel]

EM4 dread emoji

[naive flicker]

just roll with RI2 no?

[gray apex]

I could but I don’t want to

[naive flicker]

fair

[indigo badge]

does the heat sheet allow firstboonepic?

[lavish sorrel]

unmodded sheet? no

[indigo badge]

how would you use firstboonepic without mods 😐

[naive flicker]

that sounds like a good mod ngl

[indigo badge]

i meant modded 😂

[lavish sorrel]

modded sheet does 👍

[indigo badge]

ok i definitely have to do that 58 run someday

[lavish sorrel]

idk, other mods are allowed on the unmodded heatsheet, anything cosmetic or "that doesn't affect the run itself", so I figured I'd clarify

[naive flicker]

reading these numbers is crazy

[gray apex]

You should do 60 heat beowulf and get me my revenge

[indigo badge]

that would mean dc2 enabled 😨

[gray apex]

Indeed

I lost to Cerberus

And never reached the fight again

[indigo badge]

also i have to one day go finish a fresh file attempt without divine protection

grrr i have to reinstall the game

[naive flicker]

how hard is fresh file first win?

i dont remember my first run at all

[gray apex]

You have to relearn a lot of things. I hear some ppl compare it to 50 heat in terms of difficulty

So yea it’s not easy

[indigo badge]

about as difficult as a 50 heat run with sword

[naive flicker]

AND EASY SPEAZY DID THAT

you basically gotta do a hitless sword run im guessing

oh my days

[indigo badge]

the are 2 genuinely challenging parts in the run which are the champions and hades himself

[indigo badge]

you get some wiggle room in boss fights because the fountains in between regions heal you a little

[naive flicker]

no mirror no keepsakes no nothing but sword at base damage

[gray apex]

Having 1 dash and no dmg is the big issue usually

[naive flicker]

is the first run with certain gods only?

[gray apex]

Yea

[indigo badge]

yes, athena ares dio Artemis

[naive flicker]

i heared there are 2 guaranteed

thats like good protection

[indigo badge]

the strat is to get athena ares duo, merciful end, which solves the lack of damage in the run

[naive flicker]

artemis attack?

you can get a duo first run?

[indigo badge]

once you hit merciful end it's all about playing monodash sword

[indigo badge]

yes

ares attack and athena special is the best combination to get merciful end

[naive flicker]

couldnt help but notice tboi on your thing you also play isaac?

[naive flicker]

got it

[indigo badge]

yeah but I'm not as good at it as hades 🤪

[naive flicker]

lmao same ive been trying to get some tlot marks lmao

[indigo badge]

currently around 610/637 i think

[naive flicker]

oh damn yea im not close nvm

picked it up 2month ago

lost is easily the most fun ive had in a while

[indigo badge]

i think i got it 6 months ago? been playing on and off, about 290 hours right now

[naive flicker]

and the only all marks charater i have

[naive flicker]

thats really insane for almost deadgod wth

610 at 300hours

[indigo badge]

yeah roguelike games make my brain go weeeeee

[lofty gust]

best daedalus perk for demeter ME build?

[naive flicker]

ive been hopping on that time of recent

flying kick (dont take my advice)

[gray apex]

Breaching Cross >> Explosive Upper

[lofty gust]

alr ty

[naive flicker]

oh explosive upper is the best

[lofty gust]

explosive was an option

[gray apex]

It’s pretty good

[lavish sorrel]

eeeeeeh debatable. the main difficulty of ff comes from how different it is from the rest of the game, not the actual execution

[indigo badge]

monodash fo0 dad fight 😨

[lavish sorrel]

there is a visual cue for that, it just takes not mashing the dash button unlike usual

[indigo badge]

50 heat sword gave me the confidence to try it so I'll forever equal it to that 🙏

one day I'll win it without divine protection AND have the timer one from the start

[lavish sorrel]

(and you then proceeded to breeze through it, proving my statement right)

[indigo badge]

doesn't count because :funnyorangeboon: 😠

[gray apex]

Well it’s in the pool so you got it fair and square

Pretty impressive as it is

[lavish sorrel]

who cares if it's cheap, it works and that's all that matters

[indigo badge]

idk man it still haunts me like a monster under my bed

[gray apex]

Im sure it’s not that cheap but it looks flashy lol

[gray apex]

If you want redemption do it with deadly reversal and forget ME

There you go problem solved

[lavish sorrel]

yes the shiny orange boon does provoke an orange flash on-screen I agree

[indigo badge]

my first win was actually with arty attack and no duos does that count

still funny orange boon though 😔

[gray apex]

Technically fresh file

But it’s unrecorded so I’ll assume it’s seeded

[indigo badge]

there's also the ocd thing that I've done 13/24 aspects on 50 heat
unfortunately I don't find the remaining aspects fun to play but good god just thinking about it makes my head hurt

[lavish sorrel]

regardless: Fresh File is impressive to achieve regardless of build or run-time or time spent hunting for the clear. if you want to play it more because you want to improve then the more power to you, but know that what you achieved within 3 attempts is something many a player spends 100 to 200 hours trying

[indigo badge]

it's recorded actually 🫵 😂

[gray apex]

That makes two of us

[naive flicker]

does dash strike bonus from chaos work on hestia dash attacking?

[gray apex]

Yes

[amber crest]

I think so

Does Hunter dash btw yall?

I think so

[indigo badge]

3 attempts* by the way 👀

[naive flicker]

HOLY NOwAY IT wORK

[amber crest]

But wanna double check

[naive flicker]

ive been gasslit before to think that it doesnt i think

mightve been from a different boon but thats so big to know

[gray apex]

Yea hunter dash works on hestia

[amber crest]

I told yaaa

[naive flicker]

makes me wanna take chaos more

[amber crest]

Thnx thought so

[lavish sorrel]

I'm going to pull a poshboy really quickly and challenge both of you to join me on 24/24 fifties

[amber crest]

You almost always wanna take chaos anyways

[naive flicker]

i swear i heard it before maybe on another aspect tho idk

[gray apex]

Ok whats the next aspect

[amber crest]

Probably thinking of spear spin dash

[naive flicker]

its just that it doesnt checkmark the skelly practice with the aspects thing for dash strikes till you hold aattack

[indigo badge]

1. you did it unmodded
2. 24/24 50 heat implies playing gilgamesh 😨

[naive flicker]

mightve been bow?

[lavish sorrel]

honestly second point is valid, I can get behind that 👍

[gray apex]

We’ll think about gilga later

[amber crest]

Wdym it always works for bow

It’s like the most important thing to learn for bow

[naive flicker]

ok yea thats good to know for sure

[gray apex]

But choose an aspect so we all do the same one

[indigo badge]

i left it for last on the 24/24 32 heat grind and MAN

[amber crest]

Like I have a prescription from a doctor

[naive flicker]

i mean yea its the bread and butter

[amber crest]

About why people dislike bow

[gray apex]

I havent reached the surface with it

Like ever

lol

[naive flicker]

bro holy thats like my goal right there

24/24 32heat

[lavish sorrel]

if watching cherrydad gilga VODs has taught me anything is that standing strikes on that aspect = good

[naive flicker]

just do it in a row uhhm

[gray apex]

Ok how about we do 50 heat gilga first then to get it out of the way

[indigo badge]

i definitely have to reinstall the game

[amber crest]

My goal is just gonna be every weapon 32 heat and fists a bit more

And a sub8 run

[naive flicker]

go for hestia its legit free heat bro

[indigo badge]

did that before allspects 32 and definitely recommend it, very fun 👍

[lavish sorrel]

if you can do that you can do all others too 👍

[amber crest]

Tell me something I don’t know

[indigo badge]

doing arthur skyrocketed my confidence but i know gilgamesh is a different beast

[naive flicker]

whats the chrion heat record?

[gray apex]

Yea you need some motivation to actually try it

[naive flicker]

chiron*

[amber crest]

High

[indigo badge]

60

[lavish sorrel]

58 unm 60 modded

[naive flicker]

and i heard it was the lowest of all aspects

[lavish sorrel]

for speed, yes

[naive flicker]

do they used the special for clearing ?

[indigo badge]

it's surprisingly ok for heat

[lavish sorrel]

for heat, no

[amber crest]

It’s the slowest aspect

[gray apex]

You should see some stacked chiron em4

[lavish sorrel]

(IF you get the things)

[amber crest]

But it’s not terrible for heat

[amber crest]

Yeah…

That’s the problem

[naive flicker]

what are the things?

[amber crest]

Relentless volley
Concentrated volley

And that’s just the hammers

[naive flicker]

uuuuuuhm about that

[lavish sorrel]

and a good special-boon, and good enemies (chiron suffers in regular rooms), and a pom or two on special perhaps

[gray apex]

Chiron room clearing is awful yea

You’ll time out in tartarus

[naive flicker]

they should make a heat to blind the doors of each area up to 4 and call it unforeseen consequences

[amber crest]

That’s a chaos debuff

[naive flicker]

thad be casually fun

[naive flicker]

yea but like make it heat

[lavish sorrel]

got dyno'd but you get my point

[amber crest]

It sounds terrible. Not fun at all.

[lavish sorrel]

pseudotech helps you play out chiron runs that don't get some of the stuff

[naive flicker]

doesnt it start with poseidons dash or is that for the speedstrats and not viable for heat

[gray apex]

It’s doable for reasonable heat but once you take RI it’s a no go

[lavish sorrel]

50+ heat poseidon dash is pretty bad

[gray apex]

So 50+

[lavish sorrel]

you don't 1shot things anymore and don't have rolls to burn

[naive flicker]

idk if they thought of fun when they made AP

[lavish sorrel]

(or DC for that matter)

[gray apex]

Yea that too

[naive flicker]

oh

[lavish sorrel]

there is some silly stuff one can do with AP2 to be fair, but yeah that stops being fun the moment one tries pushing for higher heats

[indigo badge]

also ri1 with underworld customs means whatever you get besides tidal dash has to go

[gray apex]

Chiron has to take bad pacts very early compared to other weps it’s a bit sad since the bossing can be fun imo

Like at 50 heat you’re timing out because of JS, you cant reach EM4, RI2 ruins everything and DC2 is even worse rooms, and you have to take one or two of these

Or AP2

[naive flicker]

cuz you dont have time to go for other boons or what exactly?

why does ri0 help with that

[gray apex]

They just don’t show up because you lose dark foresight

You get your boon and miniboss and that’s the normal scenario

If youre lucky you can buy a boon

[naive flicker]

oh wow dark foresight might be a lot better than it sounded

[gray apex]

If youre unlucky you take a chaos and sell the boon you started with lol

[amber crest]

It’s nigh necessary

[naive flicker]

lmao nah but when does it start to get unfun

[amber crest]

Different for each person

[gray apex]

It depends on you ig

[amber crest]

For me it’s 32

Others it’s 40-ish or more

[gray apex]

I hate RI but I can tolerate AP2

[amber crest]

I just dislike heat

[naive flicker]

i think ap2 might be the limit

[lavish sorrel]

there are pacts at 50 that completely avoid it, just like RI!

[naive flicker]

you just wanna get a run going you dont wanna reset spam

atleast how i enjoy the game

[lavish sorrel]

yes, there are RI0 AP0 50 heat pacts

though those require learning EM4 and playing a juiced-up elysium

[gray apex]

You can make insane builds with them, that’s the tradeoff kinda

[naive flicker]

im running RI1 at 40 heat its playable for sure tbh

[gray apex]

So you get to EM4 with a nice ME build but you still have to learn the fight, with some leniency ig

[naive flicker]

you are ofc running stubborn and its not an option at that point correct?

[gray apex]

Yes

[naive flicker]

ah

[gray apex]

Btw if you see patroclus when running stubborn you can take the kiss of styx so it makes your sd heal 80% instead

That can last until the hades fight if you get a 2 sack

[naive flicker]

ive been spamming npcs for companion unlocks every time i take a lot of damage on a miniboss i just hate it so much

[lavish sorrel]

run stubborn from like 30-ish onwards yeah. the extra 4 lasting consequences heat and extra room-safety really does matter

[naive flicker]

for the whole run????

oh my

[gray apex]

Until it runs out

[naive flicker]

ill do it after i get my 40 for sure

[gray apex]

But it can make it til the end if you’re not too unlucky

[lavish sorrel]

if you get 2sack (sometimes 3 if you got patroclus late enough), it won't run out entering dad 👍

[naive flicker]

a lil stubborn to commit to it rn

ive been getting lots of 2 sacks saving my 4 sack for my 40heat vicotry

[lavish sorrel]

(pun intended?)

[naive flicker]

althought a 4sack 40heat isnt even bad

itd be like right on time

[naive flicker]

not really actually

also another question i had

do you only get 1 special room sisyphus/eurydice/patroclus?

[gray apex]

Tbh i think we recommended sd without explaining some of the tricks you can do with it lol

[gray apex]

Nah can be all three

[naive flicker]

and if you skip one can you get the others or do you miss out on a special room

[naive flicker]

ok

[naive flicker]

ik about some shop item you can buy but not sure how it works

[gray apex]

They are unrelated so skipping one has no effect on other rooms you see in the run

[naive flicker]

another quick question for hestia aspect

what other decent options can i go for for the attack and the special

[gray apex]

Athena has two boons which give defiances. At higher heat ppl often force Athena in asphodel regardless of the build just for that. If you die in a room (use your sd) and pick up an Athena DD, it places the dd in your empty sd spot. But when you enter the next room you regain your sd normally so you essentially have your sd and a normal dd (heals 50%) alongside it

That’s the main interaction alongisde the patroclus thing mentioned earlier

[naive flicker]

and the sd gets hit first

[gray apex]

You can do this anywhere but Asphodel has lava so you can die in shops before you pick up Athena boons and in later biomes you want defensive keepsakes

[gray apex]

Always yes

[naive flicker]

gotchu

[cloud ibex]

Hello, could please recommend the easiest and fastest build for me to clear the game?

[gray apex]

I go for any decent atk % I find. You can do Dem and Athena, just avoid Poseidon. For Special just any % is nice

[gray apex]

Poseidon special quite fun imo

[naive flicker]

poseidon has a pretty good bonus why should i avoid em?

second best on the special if i recall

[naive flicker]

yea

[gray apex]

Avoid them on the attack i meant, the knockback is annoying and the % is low

Would rather shackle

Cleared it up, was badly worded on my part

[naive flicker]

alr yea

[gray apex]

It depends on what weapon you like to play and how far you’ve progressed, mainly whether you have aspects or not. Do you have a preference? There is no overall easiest that works for everyone

[naive flicker]

should avoid artemis and ares on the attack?

[cloud ibex]

I just keep choosing Poseidon's boons?

[gray apex]

Artemis can be good if you have other scaling such as chaos or hermes but if by herself i think it can feel very inconsistent. Ares is a total no go, you don’t want flat atk on either atk or special

[naive flicker]

someone help mike over here she has to deal with the both of us 😭

[naive flicker]

got it thanks a lot

[gray apex]

If you like Poseidon i say focus on his dash and call, avoid his attack and special, the call and dash can work on a lot of weps and they scale really well with poms. If you see more Poseidon you can pick Razor shoals and hydraulic might, avoid atk and special always. If your wep attacks slowly use Athena Artemis Aphrodite, it it attacks rapidly use Zeus Dio Ares. That’s the general decision making process for now. If you’ve progressed enough you can start forcing certain gods using Olympian keepsakes.

Good wep to try this would be spear or rail but it works on others

Start with tidal dash and look for a flat dmg atk and work from there

[naive flicker]

does ares work on chiron?

ive tried artemis poseidon demeter and dio on the special but does doom even stack?

[gray apex]

It does not, it only “stacks” if you have dire misfortune but it’s just dmg ramping up, the enemy always has 1 stack of the doom status.

Even if you have what it needs it’s not very good

[mint coral]

Is a meme

[gray apex]

Try Poseidon Special and look for sea storm

[naive flicker]

not very good on chiron yea?

[gray apex]

Yes

[naive flicker]

poseidon special felt really good on chiron first time i did it

[gray apex]

It can shred bosses with sea storm but it can be rng with the Zeus boons

[rustic vale]

see you can get some crazy knockback on chiron w/ pos special and wall-slam damage is determined by biome and impact velocity iirc

regular wallslam, non-breaking wave I mean

[naive flicker]

stopped using chiron cuz of the clear and having to aim with it feels pretty bad the auto aim doesnt help if you are not facing the enemy and you need to use wasd to change the direction for it to lock on which doesnt feel great

i also really hate how it feels on styx

like 4 of my arrows hit

[gray apex]

Ye i wouldnt use auto aim on Chiron. Some ppl take Poseidon cast or tidal dash to deal with the styx issue

[naive flicker]

i was too much of a athena dash andy

still am ngl but not with the rail as much

you can skill solution dodge if you arent close to the enemy to begin with

[gray apex]

You’ll drop it on some weps eventually ye

[naive flicker]

can you even drop it on melee weapons i feel like its needed

or would be really helpful atleast in high heat that is

[rustic vale]

yes

[naive flicker]

do hades have a line for fresh file first victory?

[rustic vale]

yes

[naive flicker]

secret dialogue

[rustic vale]

yep

[naive flicker]

the devs are freaky

they really knew itd happen

[rustic vale]

you do get funny dialogue sequence breaks

as a side effect

[naive flicker]

lol

[rustic vale]

most melee weapons would rather tidal dash if they aren't running merciful end

and ranged weps as well

[naive flicker]

wouldnt that be counterintuitive for something like fists

you really wanna stick to the enemy

actually idek the bonus of merciful end so ignore that comment

missing context

[mint coral]

Ares-athena duo

Deflect abilities removes the waiting of doom to drop

So something like ares attack/divine dash + ME gets to dash strike, apply doom and instantly activate it

[naive flicker]

does the deflect have to hit?

[amber crest]

Yes

[naive flicker]

the enemy to get the bonus

[mint coral]

Deflect abilities

Not deflecting an attack

[naive flicker]

oh ok

[amber crest]

So any Athena boomed attack

Booned

[lavish sorrel]

Correction, not victory, but yes there's a special line for getting to dad first-run

[naive flicker]

so you just deflect stack doom and then it takes care of the rest

[mint coral]

Deadly reversal (athena-artemis) does need to actually deflect something for it to activate

[naive flicker]

is it that rely-able if you have to hit them with their attack before you get the effect

reliable*

[lavish sorrel]

Aspect-dependent tbh

Really good on any melee weapon (usually ran alongside ), only ok on everything else

[naive flicker]

alr

[mint coral]

RaME bow is peak wdym

[amber crest]

Usually you apply doom with attack and apple Merciful End with dash

[mint coral]

Zeus shield is built different and can play it with special alone

[naive flicker]

do status effects apply to every enemy when hit?

[mint coral]

With shared suffering? Nah

Just a meme

[naive flicker]

thad be insane

[mint coral]

ME is kinda a meme to just suggest to fit into weapons it clearly shouldn't go

There's an old rama joke guide where it tells you to run it cuz the aspect is stinky

Idk if is still around

[naive flicker]

merciful end guan yu itss probably viable

[mint coral]

Surprisingly yeah

[naive flicker]

trol

[mint coral]

You can also start with athena special iirc

[naive flicker]

6years ago clueless

[mint coral]

Cuz charged skewer is strong

[naive flicker]

whats the world record for new savefile?

[mint coral]

@lavish sorrel you know better

I think you said it earlier but lazy

[lavish sorrel]

17:41 by Nitrostarch

[mint coral]

(FF is real time based)

[naive flicker]

oh my god its a sub 20

i still cant get that time consistently trol

[rustic vale]

You don’t have to hit them with their own attack

That can’t trigger Merciful End

It’s a deflecting ability that hits them

so when divine dash hits them, it triggers

[naive flicker]

that makes it way more reliable

[rustic vale]

You just dash-strike into enemies

apply doom w/ dash strike then they’re immediately hit with divine dash

[naive flicker]

mhm

[rustic vale]

Btw

That’s in real time

not using the in-game timer

[naive flicker]

lmao

[rustic vale]

because the ff category is measured in rta

[naive flicker]

limme guess the number 2 time

19minutess

[rustic vale]

I was just talking about this with Alex earlier

the fastest in-game times are usually like 11 for Fresh File

but it’s pretty normal to have a massive discrepancy between in-game time and real time for speedruns

[naive flicker]

ye

[rustic vale]

18:40

It’s a 59 second dif

[naive flicker]

to be expected

[rustic vale]

Nitro also has the Hellmode FF wr at 20:25

[lavish sorrel]

Nitro good

Pls nerf

[rustic vale]

buff Alex

🙏

[lavish sorrel]

true actually give me that sub20 ff pls

[rustic vale]

Can we get a Hades speedrunning patch plz

like

just

[lavish sorrel]

Remove barge and sacks

[rustic vale]

Oh I was thinking we nerf and buff different runners

did not mean the game

Update to anyheat: codextech is allowed

Hera is now only usable for the 50 heat category

OWO needs some variety we’re adding TWO

[lavish sorrel]

nitro & croven dreaming

[lavish sorrel]

Congrats you now have the rail+bow category

[rustic vale]

Loyalty Card now has a subcategory where you also catch 4 fish during the run

broke%: how fast can you reach 0 obols

[lavish sorrel]

Hitless + Damageless wiped from the plane of existence

[rustic vale]

We needed space for something cooler yk

I think we could really shift up and bring new players to the Hades speedrunning scene w/ these changes

Who wouldn’t want to record a run for TWO

Flawless idea

[lavish sorrel]

the only recursive acronym in the game! TWO Weapons Only

[rustic vale]

Or

You know what would be really funny

TWO actually stands for Three Weapons Only

[lavish sorrel]

That's a halfspects with a slightly unusual lineup

[rustic vale]

Fair

Other idea

Sub7%

Start a new save

record until you sub7 on it

this would pop off I believe

and um I believe that’s every idea anyone could possibly have about Hades speedrunning so

Fairly certain it’d be impossible to think of any other concepts

[mint coral]

You should step on HS magma now

[lavish sorrel]

This is fftc with additional rng

Pls no

[old bluff]

Are we just gonna ban Beo too cuz why not

[rustic vale]

Nah

[old bluff]

Also, what about sub5%

Several terabyte vid incoming

[rustic vale]

it can be a subcategory

[lavish sorrel]

Forced time dilation even with vsync on from how long the playsession is

[old bluff]

FPS capped at 60

No time dilation nonsense

[rustic vale]

Also sub7% is measured by the sum total igt of all runs rather than rta

[old bluff]

But what if you reset

[rustic vale]

The entire video is voided

[lavish sorrel]

Wait long enough and it'll still happen

I assume ff to sub5 would take some hundred hours, strong dilation is basically forced at this point at 60 if I understand the math right

[rustic vale]

How many work orders are relevant to sub5

[old bluff]

Fountains

Don’t buy Erebus

In fact, I’m tempted to go and create a new save file without Erebus gates

They suck

[rustic vale]

Do the blue laurel work orders factor in at all or do you end up skipping by them all

[lavish sorrel]

-fishing rod

Does mean you can't fishtech but it feels worth from well odds

[rustic vale]

Oh

[old bluff]

Trueeeeee

[rustic vale]

I was about to ask if huge catch was that big of a problem

[old bluff]

It does make some booms from Pos less takeable

Beaver and tf

[lavish sorrel]

And sunken treasure

[rustic vale]

beaver doesn’t contribute to huge catch does it

[old bluff]

Isn’t that the other Lego

I might be mixing them up

[lavish sorrel]

I know beaver and tf open second wave yes

[rustic vale]

Beaver and typhoons fury give you the regular legendary

[lavish sorrel]

Idk about huge catch

[rustic vale]

that gives extra knockback

[old bluff]

[rustic vale]

Oceans bounty and sunken treasure give you more fish

[old bluff]

I filpped them

[rustic vale]

knockback boons = knockback legendary, resource boons = resource legendary

[old bluff]

1.3k hours of Beo everyone

[rustic vale]

Funniest part is that Huge Catch doesn’t even let you know about like the biggest change it makes tbh

Removing the fish room cooldown is what allows the +20% fishing spots to even matter

[mint coral]

I love secret info in my mechanics

[dusty cobalt]

Hi y'all

[rustic vale]

Is it time to become the youtuber I was always meant to be and pump out 80 youtube shorts on obscure Hades mechanics and then like 20 longform videos on aspect building

[old bluff]

I’m so here for that

[mint coral]

Get good at the YouTube thumbnail game first

[rustic vale]

Just slam aphro /arte / bouldy on the thumbnail of each

trust

Big red arrows

big red circles

[mint coral]

Copy haelian

[rustic vale]

I have a feeling video editing might be harder than the thumbnail creation

I’ve done that stuff like maybe twice and one wasn’t really editting a video more of decorrupting the file

also I need background Hades gameplay huh

We’ll see

It would be nice to add some educational content to the Hades youtube sphere because afaik rk it’s Haelian and like

one off videos on speedrunning techniques like battie usage

[old bluff]

I don’t even know of many of those

[rustic vale]

I really just know the battie line-ups one and the intro to speedrunning guide

And I think Jazz has one w/ optimal dps rotations for every weapons

[old bluff]

Hey shackle

Can you pick a number 1 through 3

[rustic vale]

2

[old bluff]

Wrong

[rustic vale]

eh I was 1 off

close enough

[old bluff]

Did you pick two just to say this line

[rustic vale]

no I thought about it after

But I might use it in the future

Which one was right btw

[old bluff]

1

Didn’t matter tho

Run died in end shop

[rustic vale]

😔

run would’ve lived if you took 2

[old bluff]

Fr

[rustic vale]

Speaking of runs hmm

Do I try for sub10 spear or shield first

they’re the only ones left

[old bluff]

Beo

Do Beo

[rustic vale]

I’mma be real I have like

Maybe 11 runs with beo

My fastest shield clear rn is a 10:50 with zeus

[old bluff]

Zeus is a fun speed aspect true

[rustic vale]

I’m more comfortable with it

But we’ll see

This could be a “I have 11 eris clears total but I swapped to it to sub10 rail and immediately smashed my overall pb from 9:49 to 8:01 first try” moment

[mint coral]

Is this a new file or do you actually not have sub 10s with those overall

[rustic vale]

I only had a sub10 for bow before like

2 weeks ago

then I decided to do fists and then I did rail and then I did sword

[mint coral]

Crazy

[rustic vale]

sword took the longest

[mint coral]

But like in a "thought you had them for years"

[rustic vale]

I got my bow sub10 like

1 or 2 years ago

and decided to swap to heat like

immediately after

then got burnt out from losing 40 heat

came back at some point to do higher heat gameplay

then went back on hiatus for a while

Then I just felt like “huh why don’t I try to speedrun fists” and it was really close to sub10 so I pushed it and decided to keep going

It’s like everytime I come back I get better faster

[lofty gust]

is fhe best achilles build zap?

i meant eris

[rustic vale]

It might just be me being gone for so long my muscle memory has time to like… lose itself so when I come back I can get better more easily

[rustic vale]

Pretty much

[lofty gust]

oh okay

ty

[rustic vale]

Lightning strike, static discharge, tidal dash, +% special with cluster bomb and rocket bomb

[lofty gust]

bet tysm

[old bluff]

Achilles lmao

Lmao

I can’t read

[lofty gust]

wait whats the best for guan yu?

[rustic vale]

For 98% of gamers it’s a special based build w/ charged skewer

you dash-strike and you special and you don’t really touch the spin

[rustic vale]

The crazy 60+ heat gamers figure out how to make the spin usable for their needs

[rustic vale]

I really can’t remember if there’s much specific aside from a +% special

I’m pretty sure you can run Merciful End Guan-Yu

[lofty gust]

okay

ty

[rustic vale]

If you’re playing on mac it’s probably Athena strike thou

[lofty gust]

Bet

[mint coral]

Serrated point gaming

[rustic vale]

Specifically because of the mac glitch 💀

Screen wide deflect

[rustic vale]

Bgl

I think beo might unironically have so much breakpoints with it’s special

[mint coral]

Bot gotta lie

[rustic vale]

now that I’m using it

at least for tart idk about the other areas

[mint coral]

I only use it for tart witches and cry as I miss 5 times in a row

[rustic vale]

this is about to be the longest tart I’ve had in awhile

[old bluff]

It does

[rustic vale]

I thought “sweet nice early second pos” and then it’s like

tempest strike common bwave common tf

I think common bwave is halfvalue of epic no?

idk if it’s worth

Not enough of a beo gamer to know what I want outside of chaos and mirage shot

[old bluff]

Beaver on Beo is ass

Messes Styx up

[mint coral]

^

[rustic vale]

oh then huh

TF is just free single target damage?

No aoe so it won’t mess with

(Typhoons fury for extra wallslam damage)

[mint coral]

Trying to think really hard on - oh

You barely have knockback with beo

[rustic vale]

at the very least it has to be better than taking tempest strike here

please

[old bluff]

Tf prob best

All suck tho

[mint coral]

Oh yeah just grab that lmfao

[rustic vale]

3 obols short of either a pos or hermes boon in midshop

[old bluff]

Rip

better than an arty tho

[rustic vale]

Oh athena

I don’t want unshakable mettle 😭

get out of my godpool

[old bluff]

dont take attack or special then

ddash is kinda goated on beo

[rustic vale]

it thisa reset I already got breaching rush instead of cshot in tart

nah I need the beo experience

[vagrant python]

Yo what's up guys

[old bluff]

the beo experience IS reseting in tart

[vagrant python]

Where can I ask questions about boons

And what synergizes

[amber crest]

#h1-builds-and-combat

[vagrant python]

Awesome

Thanks

[rustic vale]

Yeah I guessss

But I need combat experience

I’ve avoided beo like the plague

[primal compass]

I’m not seeing the achievement, does Steam Deck have a known issue with achievements?

[hot bloom]

Well that was the best and the worst run/build i have had in awhile

[mint coral]

Isn't the plume achievement 30% or I'm thinking the average plume build

No 30% is butterfly

[hot bloom]

So i had a level 6 wine guy attack( persephone keepsake) .. and demeter cast as my main dmg.. i almost lost a death defiance because i had max chill and slower when affected with hangover

So my timing was completely out the window

[mint coral]

Happens

[hot bloom]

I am on a streak of 11

Wooo

Oh and it was with the sword, not my favorite

I did still win but i got hit and that makes me mad cause i usually dont lol unless he summons stupid chariots

[naive flicker]

ares on special isnt bad right?

hestia

[rustic vale]

uhhh

It’s like ok

Yeah

You should be fine w/ ares special

[naive flicker]

im yearning for that one boon with the bonus after killing an enemy so i need em something

alr sounds good

whats the best in slot for the special of hestia?

[rustic vale]

It’s like ideally you’d be aiming for rocket bomb and cluster bomb if you don’t find richochet or piercing fire

and atp +% goes a long way

And triple bomb as a discount cluster

[naive flicker]

alr yea i forgot someone already told me high percent on the special is good

i got aphro and athena in the pool rn should i be forcing any gods you think?

[rustic vale]

But ares is also just really high damage sonit’s like fine

[naive flicker]

i was gonna run pom blossom or acorn

[rustic vale]

eh tidal dash or zeus/dio call are all that I would be looking for going into asphodel

[naive flicker]

i dont like upclose calls on hestia

i get myself damaged trying to optimize them

[rustic vale]

They’re just so much damage it’s hard to pass-up

But

Tidal dash is actually way too important for styx on hestia

[keen lake]

How does god mode work?

[naive flicker]

i can clear the rats with athena dash so its fiiine

[rustic vale]

you get 20% damage reduction to start off and every time you die it increases by… 2%? until it reaches 80%

[naive flicker]

its only 40 its not that bad yet

[keen lake]

Ok thanks

[rustic vale]

Escapes you get with god mode are tracked seperately from ones without (for the purposes of having a higher number of escapes on your victory screens) as well

iirc

and you can turn it off whenever you want

and also having it on makes your speedrun illegal and I think that’s about it

it might be a 4% increase I think I remember it being a small round number

[naive flicker]

i gambled between ares and herme and went for ares and got battle rage stupid choice but wortthhhhhh

[amber crest]

You always want Hermes’

[rustic vale]

eh

[amber crest]

Also battle rage is good with Hestia

[rustic vale]

actually Hermes can wait

Hermes can wait if you need to add a god to your pool or etc

Or free rooms

[amber crest]

Except if you NEED the other one or if you want to wait for refreshing nectar. Or it’s a free room

Mb

[naive flicker]

GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD

battle rage carries floor 3

[amber crest]

Side hustles aight

Extremely convenient

But doesn’t directly buff your damage in any meaningful way

[rustic vale]

Am too fast

[naive flicker]

if early its worth if not id take like 3 things over it

[rustic vale]

See

No matter when it is

[amber crest]

You always want hyper sprint over it

[rustic vale]

There are always 3 things more valuable than side hustle

Hyper Sprint, Greatest reflex and rush delivery assuming you get RD from the usual channel

plume RD is not the play

[amber crest]

Is it really ALWAYS 3 when you can only get hyper sprint OR rush delivery at a given time

Would 2 be more accurate

[naive flicker]

so id take dashes or hyper sprint from hermes or special and battle rage which carry me floor 3 so id rather get a hermes floor 3 cuz he can appear there guaranteed i feel

[amber crest]

He is guaranteed

[rustic vale]

He’s not guaranteed wdym

It’s just insanely likely

or

[naive flicker]

ik its probably not the best choice but meh

[rustic vale]

Mmm

[naive flicker]

yea it happens most times than not

[amber crest]

You’re guaranteed to be offered it two times no

[naive flicker]

i thought so

also i really like phalax shot is that a me thing?

athenas cast

[rustic vale]

There isn’t a guarantee hardcoded in the game

[amber crest]

It’s not bad

Especially with lightning phalanx

[rustic vale]

but due to how the bag works I believe you’re guaranteeed to see him twice

[naive flicker]

it lauches slowley alloving me to get out my first attack right at the respawn lanching the cast right before the respawn it lines up really well with some synergies too

[rustic vale]

I have to reread up on room reward generation

Phalanx shot is good

It’s annoying because it likes to do it’s own thing sometimes

and fly off

But otherwise solid

[amber crest]

Apart from lightning phalanx and Merciful end Athena doesn’t really have many good duos

[rustic vale]

deadly reversal

3/8 are solid

[amber crest]

Ah I forgor

[naive flicker]

thats good enough ngl

ahh

cba rewriting

cool 4 free rooms in a row

1:38 asphodel is that wr?

[rustic vale]

Smn

Nope

[naive flicker]

actually i lied its 2:38

nvm

mb wr is 3 seconds actually

room warping

[rustic vale]

I know such and such dropped a 57 second one early and wasn’t even wr for the category

Name isn’t coming to me rn

and I really hate it

[old bluff]

Nalei?

[rustic vale]

I mean if you’ve seen the 2 minute long run-control run

I think their asphodel is like 20 seconds or something

[naive flicker]

the seeded run no i havent

[rustic vale]

Calling it seeded is an understatement

Seeded does do rng manips, run-control doesn’t

[old bluff]

Wrong way around

[rustic vale]

what

backwards

yes

[naive flicker]

hammer or aphro and athena (i have 2death defiances only)

[old bluff]

Hammer

[rustic vale]

hammer what are aphro and athena offering here that you even want

over the hammer

[naive flicker]

mb

[rustic vale]

I just want to like

[naive flicker]

replenish and more damage to weak/boon to purge

[rustic vale]

Emphasis how they’re a different ball-game

[naive flicker]

gotchu

[rustic vale]

mmm yeah I’d still take the hammer since athena and aphro are both really annoying challenge room enemies

[naive flicker]

is cluster bomb good with the rockets

[rustic vale]

yes

I love 400 base damage shotgun

[naive flicker]

they dont all hit right?

[rustic vale]

2 words

Explosive shotgun

you can absolutely make them all hit

[old bluff]

They do

[naive flicker]

heard

[rustic vale]

This is why +% special is massive

[naive flicker]

oh my fking god how broken is thatttt

[old bluff]

Very

[naive flicker]

sadly i got no special tho

[amber crest]

1 word: boom

[rustic vale]

Find one you haveaphro and athena in pool

exchange

purge curse of pain and find a new one

fill the rest of your cores to guarantee it

Ah yes let me exchange my epic tidal dash for a thunder dash I have no qualms with halving my dash damage

why does thunder dash do such little damage actually

Is this worse than lightning reflexes

IT IS

I literally have a lightning reflexes offered and it’s 40 at epic while thunder dash is 25

[naive flicker]

buy an athena boon or health?

[rustic vale]

athena = possible special or dd

[naive flicker]

i got zues special to sell it as a placeholder

[rustic vale]

possibly exchange

or dd

[naive flicker]

imma go for it anyways dd is good

ok

[lofty gust]

is achilles build js based around tidal dash?

[old bluff]

Tidal dash and flurry jab are the big two

[lofty gust]

bet

[rustic vale]

You can figure out the rest based on whether you find artemis/ares or zeus/athena in tartarus

But tdash is too huge to pass up

[lofty gust]

is the mirror of night more or less the same as demeter

Or

[rustic vale]

wha

[lofty gust]

or like how different

[naive flicker]

11:19 into styx tho

[lofty gust]

is it

[amber crest]

Hi kenma

[naive flicker]

kinda juicy

imma die terribly tho

[lofty gust]

hola

[rustic vale]

I have no clue what you mean by this

[amber crest]

Me neither

[rustic vale]

Like I’m comparing a goddess to a completely seperate upgrade system that works in tandem with the gods

Is your question incomplete?

[lofty gust]

oop mb

[naive flicker]

yep thats about what i expected

[vagrant python]

is concentrated knuckle always worth taking over heavy knuckle

[mint coral]

Yeah

In the sense it doesn't hurt to take it

[naive flicker]

nah but why do you gotta dash so late to evade that spin attack like damn

imagine losing to the fking hades fight over and over like wtf is this

[rustic vale]

Heavy Knuckle just normally doesn’t have a good use case

[vagrant python]

yep

i tried it out and gave up

i trolled my build

[vagrant python]

is fighting chiron even really doable without getting super lucky

[lofty gust]

best boons for guan yu

[lofty gust]

yeah

i wouldnt recommend

unless ur doing the quest

wastes too much time and energy

[rustic vale]

Yeahhh

[vagrant python]

he got me

mannn

[old bluff]

He stronk

[vagrant python]

i gotta learn what i can and cant deflect

[rustic vale]

The main problem is unfamiliartity with the fight

[vagrant python]

with holding down shield

nah my build was def strong enough

i had athena dash with zeus ^2 and zeus lightning occasional double strike

[rustic vale]

But taking the charon fight in tartarus is so much value for such little loss it’s like a o brainer

[vagrant python]

hes hardest fight yet so far

[rustic vale]

300 obols and a 20% discount for the rest of the runnn

[vagrant python]

how dodge melee attack

[stiff obsidian]

Nah

[vagrant python]

run into him and dash behind?

[vagrant python]

what do u think is harder?

[stiff obsidian]

Hades

Heroes

Ur just not used to the fight cuz uve done it like twice i assume

[vagrant python]

ya i did it twice

heroes definitely

thats theseus right?

im putting hades at number 3 on my list of difficulty

[stiff obsidian]

🤨

[rustic vale]

Em2 lernie trust

[stiff obsidian]

Em2 lernie is easier than charon

[rustic vale]

Easiest but also easiest to lose a dd

[vagrant python]

idk what em2 is

i still only have 2 escapes

we probably disagree cause i unlock harder bosses or something and then heroes and hades get 10x harder

[latent moon]

pretty hammer reliant unfortunately
charged skewer with aphrodite special and just spam specials, play it like weird bow/hestia
or quick spin with athena attack

you can try and learn the animation cancel for the spin

basically hit special as soon as you charge the spin

zag will just look like he's standing here if you did it correctly

[lofty gust]

instead of aphrodite can i run dionysus?

[latent moon]

preferably not

guan yu special has a pretty high base damage

would be a waste to put damage over time on it

[hot bloom]

I think i figured out why i hate the sheild… i cant think of a single attack boon i like to use on it

[amber crest]

Aphrodite?

[hot bloom]

I usually skip her attack, is it good?

Its worked for me a few times

[amber crest]

Yes

[hot bloom]

But not like.. enough for me to go “YAY APHRO”

[winter bronze]

its good, very high attack modifier

pretty sure aphro has the highest %damage

also gives you 1/2 of privileged status i guess

[amber crest]

Plus weak ain’t a bad status

[hot bloom]

Yeah but when its like say weak vs doom or hangover

I would rather pick one of those ya know

In general that is

[amber crest]

Difference is, weak is the only one there that comes with a %damage increase

[hot bloom]

Yeah cause weak doesnt add dmg just defense

Its more to make it grabable like the others

If that makes sense

[amber crest]

You don’t grab Aphrodite for weak tho

Unlike the other two

[hot bloom]

I only grab aphro when i dont have an attack and dont feel like waiting longer lol

[vagrant python]

if i go into chaos

but hammer is offered

im not missing out on hammer right

i can go to it out of chaos?

[amber crest]

Nope

Not guaranteed

You’re guaranteed a hammer LATER in the run

But usually a fair bit later

[hot bloom]

Oh dang it…do i go to patroleus.. or a uhh double boon of ares and poseidon (im mainly a doom damage rn)

Ima go double boon cause i have good health dmg is fine and i have all my death defiance.. and no ichor to use on him

[wild cobalt]

is hades 1 harder?

[latent moon]

arguablty best attack in the game, has the highest % modifier and best scaling with poms

ares and dio attack are way more situational

the only competitor aphrodite has is artemis attack, bc there's other forms of scaling that make the crit stronger

or zeus for flat damage builds with rush delivery since that scales with supporting zeus boons

ares is only good for merciful end builds (and other edge cases but generally not relevant)

dio attack is only good in high heat on specific aspects because it's consistent, but it's not that great comparably

especially since you'd rather have dio call, and your attack would overwrite hangover damage

[latent moon]

generally speaking, trial of the gods are never worth it unless you're building into merciful end bc of how many boons your build wants/needs to be good

takes a lot of time and hp generally, and most of the time you don't really need anything from them realistically unless it's tartarus, but still debatable tbh

[latent moon]

personal preference, hard to say bc the combat system is pretty different btwn the two. i'm sure some would say it's easier, some would say it's harder

just depends what clicks with you more

[wild cobalt]

Yea. But from my experience, I can get much better builds in hades 2. The boss difficulty barely matters when I four shot the thing

The new update definitely makes the bosses more difficult tho

The level design as well. In hades 1, the first floor has mini bosses that are annoying. Second floor, lava. Third floor, enemies respawn. Final floor, poison and tight spaces. It's super challenging

Hades 2, I spam omegas and enemies die lol

Hades 1 you have to gradually build up your build too

Like the sword needs double nova which is hard to get already. Then Hermes which you can't use keepsake

Hades 2: daggers with pan aspect. Poseidon keepsake. Build is 80% done and already super broken on no fear

[hot bloom]

I always love seeing hades in the garden.. he looks like a sulking child getting a talking to

[primal compass]

What is the optimal mirror of night spread

[jagged plover]

finally beat hades first time in 47th try

[gray apex]

Check #h1-for-new-players pins

[brazen wolf]

i just got a hermes boon and suddenly he asks if i want to mute him next time i see him. Is it because I skipped his lines too many times?

[gray apex]

Nah Im pretty sure thats a scripted event. Your response also doesnt affect your relationship with him, he wont get mad if you mute him.

[brazen wolf]

Thx. I thought I made hermes sad for a sec haha

[stiff obsidian]

Hades 1: hestia with aphro attack, build is 100% done

Just one example

Also I think all of that are spoilers

[indigo badge]

outdated btw, ||pan poseidon|| was murdered

[autumn jewel]

o7

[covert flame]

my dad tells me to stop playing hades so much

cuz apparently its making me talk about hades too much

[storm owl]

hi, is there any tier list of gods boons?

[stiff obsidian]

No

[covert flame]

i put em on 3 or wtv am i cooked

[stiff obsidian]

No

Probably

[covert flame]

i fear ill never finish that damn guan yu prophecy or wtv

[gray apex]

Reaching the surface? Guan yu can be very safe but it depends how you use and build it

[rustic vale]

I mean

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1240373379073052733/1251742336359333988/Screenshot_2024-06-15_223547.png?ex=686c9265&is=686b40e5&hm=58d3035b0f0213bb829a913cd7c1089a0d2975d0cf846f94e0e1a36f46e66cf6&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=502&height=623&

[amber crest]

Holy mother of boons

[rustic vale]

This is possibly the least helpful tierlist you could try to use for Hades btw

[amber crest]

Wait scintillating feast is bad? Thought it’d be the tier higher

[amber crest]

Yeah agreed

[rustic vale]

Builds are too aspect dependent for this to work as a concept

[amber crest]

Indeed

Like there are objectively bad boons

But a tier list is too objective for all builds

[stiff obsidian]

Why r u repeating what I said

[amber crest]

Because it’s true

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery

[viscid stratus]

To mimic somebody is a way to show your appreciation sometimes

[old bluff]

Ye

This tier list was made as a joke lmao

[cloud ibex]

How to check which bosses defeated with each weapon

[tepid plover]

in the pact of punishment

[primal compass]

Does Lambent Plume increase chances of getting Hermes?

[old bluff]

No

[tepid plover]

hermes is already guaranteed in a run

[old bluff]

(Mostly guaranteed)

[naive flicker]

32heat em4 in 19

i had tight deadline 2 but but i couldve done it in 3

with a 4 sack too

thing is i lost all 4 dd at hades despair

thankfully i didnt go for em4 on my first 32 jesus

with forced overtime i really dont even bother timing my dashes and just try to dash away

its rough

[latent moon]

I mean with enough build knowledge of h1 then you can get good builds really easily too

Hestia was used as an example earlier as a 1 boon build

Nem sword is pretty straight forward as well, basically shackle and tidal dash is enough for a lot of the run

Especially if you get double edge hammer

Hera also just needs Aphrodite cast basically

Technically Beowulf too if you don't want to do mirage shot

Like I said earlier, it's very player dependent

Your experience isn't universal lmao

[lavish sorrel]

As bananas hinted, you can do this and more in first game too! Around half of the aspects have at least one build that utterly demolishes anything including bosses within a matter of seconds, with a pretty low build-requirement

[winter scarab]

Caved for switch 2, how much better is the game on it?

[storm owl]

Has anyone experienced headache after playing hades?

[lavish sorrel]

Yes, but not uniquely for hades

Staring at a screen for too long isn't great last I checked

[naive flicker]

breaching cross or rolling knuckle

[lavish sorrel]

1 everyday

[naive flicker]

so 900% damage to armor?

[lavish sorrel]

Yes. It is THE meta-hammer when it comes to fists

Long knuckle sees some use in high heat as it provides you with range, but outside of that it's breaching cross

[naive flicker]

but rolling knuckle is a close second yea?

i mainly take long knuckle for the small cartwheel exploding mfers

other than that i dont see a great use for it

[lavish sorrel]

Rolling knuckle doesn't do much at all for you, you can reset the rotation by dashing

If you're arriving at the end of the fist attack rotation you shouldn't be

[naive flicker]

alr

[storm owl]

I think here are many moving objects and blinking screen, and you concentrate on them

So this also play a role

[lavish sorrel]

The more usual backup hammers would be long knuckle, kinetic launcher, explosive upper, and (SOMETIMES) heavy knuckle on talos only

[naive flicker]

is aphro not worth taking on demeter fists?

[lavish sorrel]

On special? Absolutely, go for it

[hot bloom]

I was starting to get annoyed with hades and i didnt know why… then i realized following the dark thirst was putting me on my very least favorite weapons

[naive flicker]

alr ty

[lavish sorrel]

It's random. If you feel like it's landing more on weapons you don't like than those you do, then that's either bad luck, sampling bias, or you now being narrow-minded when it comes to weapons (not saying you HAVE to find enjoyment in all of them, but maybe ask around for ways to learn the weapon better so it feels less weird).