interesting
#h1-discussion
void vigil
maiden narwhal
so you put zeus on the special and the attack?
lavish sorrel
Yeah except styx
lavish sorrel
And first ever than encounter will always be in ely
echo minnow
yup
void vigil
sometimes i see thanatos for like 3 consecutive runs sometimes i dont see him for many more
how fickle...
stiff obsidian
ah
Attack take any good epic attack. I guess
Athena for dds aphro for smair dem for whatever
maiden narwhal
my 45s rooms has dropped considerably does that happen as you progress? or is it just rng?
maiden narwhal
Attack take any good epic attack. I guess
Athena for dds aphro for smair dem for...
ok so z shield is counterintuitive? you put % on attack and lightning on the special?
maiden narwhal
You mean suvival
yes
stiff obsidian
ok so z shield is counterintuitive? you put % on attack and lightning on the spe...
I'm ngl I've rarely used zeus shield
maiden narwhal
I'm ngl I've rarely used zeus shield
my first time playing i used to put dem on special and loved it
maiden narwhal
ok so z shield is counterintuitive? you put % on attack and lightning on the spe...
can anyone who knows z shield speak to this?
stiff obsidian
Most stuff works on the special
maiden narwhal
so far i've been putting dio or ares on attack
stiff obsidian
ok so z shield is counterintuitive? you put % on attack and lightning on the spe...
Ideally yes
stiff obsidian
Doom on attack sounds nice too
When I play zeus I just play cshot lolll
Without special
maiden narwhal
When I play zeus I just play cshot lolll
ah good you reminded me
that's what i actually wanted to ask
is cshot really worth the loss of mobility?
stiff obsidian
Yeah
upper wolf
cshot is more than worth
stiff obsidian
Very high damage
upper wolf
it is one of the strongest hammer in the whole game
upper wolf
yeah
stiff obsidian
Like bow
maiden narwhal
yeah more bow because you have to charge it
upper wolf
dash, lil hit, min charge, do it again
maiden narwhal
that's what sucks
upper wolf
you don't
maiden narwhal
rail has perfect movement for ranged
upper wolf
you don't charge it
upper wolf
it deals 80 base damage even as minimum charge
maiden narwhal
it's not tap, it's still hold
upper wolf
Oh
stiff obsidian
You do 80 base damage no matter how much you charge
upper wolf
yeah yeah that's true
I'd say it's more a rythm to pick up though. After a time you don't really notice it anymore ime
maiden narwhal
feels awkward so i go with pulv and the big dash attack
but i should learn cshot instead
especially if i'm playing dio or ares, isn't pulv better to apply stacks faster?
torn phoenix
hey, I was just wondering what kind of challenges do people do? All I can think of is
32 heat all aspects
em4 challenge runs
sub 10s/8s etc
maiden narwhal
what is sub 10s/8s?
upper wolf
10 seconds ? Sounds like more than a challenge :p
But most challenges are speedrunning, and high heat
maiden narwhal
did they mean minutes
torn phoenix
sub 10/8 minutes
maiden narwhal
aah
upper wolf
I'd put fresh file in "speedrunning", but honestly even winning at all is pretty pog
even if you take 2 hours for it
stiff obsidian
in hades there are two paths you can take
getting ur speed pb down and getting your heat pb up
if you are built different you do both at once
upper wolf
the secret third path is fresh file
torn phoenix
thanks 
upper wolf
the fourth path is whatever haelian is doing, but it doesn't work if you're not haelian
torn phoenix
haelian built different
stiff obsidian
🙂
maiden narwhal
are there in-game rng if then else mechanics that can be manipulated?
or is it all mod based?
maiden narwhal
are there in-game rng if then else mechanics that can be manipulated?
like for decision making
maiden narwhal
teach me
upper wolf
I don't know anything about it other than it exists
maiden narwhal
no no not like that
upper wolf
nah RNG manipulation is in seeded
maiden narwhal
I don't know anything about it other than it exists
apparently they just keep dying and memorising the paths
upper wolf
first you get the right seed, then you can use RNG manip
stiff obsidian
if you mean getting what you want through decision making
upper wolf
It's uhhh latt millard I think ? Who got a sub 5 or something with talos thanks to seeded rng manip
stiff obsidian
i think just knowledge of how boons roll (which i dont know much of)
maiden narwhal
if you mean getting what you want through decision making
something like if you path x then you have better chances of finding y etc
upper wolf
so basically doing occult rituals like opening/closing codex to just get every chaos, fountain and whatever you want
stiff obsidian
theres some room logic
upper wolf
something like if you path *x* then you have better chances of finding *y* etc
oh
that's just decision making
stiff obsidian
like you cant get certain rooms from single exit doors
upper wolf
and game knowledge
maiden narwhal
that's just decision making
how?
upper wolf
Mhh, there isn't that much of that in hades tbh
void vigil
off topic , but when did pog become part of the vernacular
2012, on twitch
maiden narwhal
like you cant get certain rooms from single exit doors
i didn't know this but also if it's a single door exit what difference does it make
unless i can manipulate whether or not i'll get a single door?
stiff obsidian
i didn't know this but also if it's a single door exit what difference does it m...
minibosses usually have single exits afaik along with shops
upper wolf
basically it's only "game tries to force a hammer on you from tart and a second one from ely", "there's a cooldown to getting chaos again without light of ixion" and "the game will propose a midshop and miniboss"
stiff obsidian
and erebus gates always have 3 exits if im right
maiden narwhal
2012, on twitch
thanks
never used that except for scrabble tournament streaming
maiden narwhal
basically it's only "game tries to force a hammer on you from tart and a second ...
and asphodel is all hermes?
this is actually where i think i go wrong
99% of the time i don't have all core slots filled by styx
because in asphodel i path hermes
instead of build boons
upper wolf
all hermes all the time
torn phoenix
hs + rd
upper wolf
well, you can only have 2 (3 with styx) but still, it's important to get those 2 (3)
maiden narwhal
is my acorn locked because i used it in tartarus?
stiff obsidian
yes
maiden narwhal
[many expletives]
rustic vale
That is how keepsakes work
maiden narwhal
dad call better than spearpoint?
rustic vale
Dad call is dps first and defensive second
Especially given you need 2* the charge of a normal call
maiden narwhal
i need to wean off acorn or i'll never learn to dodge well enough
so spearpoint better?
maiden narwhal
Especially given you need 2* the charge of a normal call
ooh so that's why
i thought it was taking forever but didn't realise
maiden narwhal
Especially given you need 2* the charge of a normal call
there's no actual tool tip for that, is there?
butterfly in erebus is cheating
upper wolf
well, you need to know the god gauge is the same for every god
most have 4 bars
hades has 2
so a usual god will use 1/4 of the full gauge to get a mini call, hades will use 1/2
I'm not sure if I'm clear 
maths hard
oh and btw artemis is the only other exception : her call uses 1/5 of the gauge
maiden narwhal
oh and btw artemis is the only other exception : her call uses 1/5 of the gauge
oh that's useful
wow charged shot is piercing
upper wolf
yeah
maiden narwhal
that's insane
maiden narwhal
loolol the way they line up and fall down in styx
hm zeus shield is also the only aspect where you don't need athena on dash
you can get on top of them and do short bursts with the shield and it's the same effect
so you can put artemis on the dash
upper wolf
wdym by "short bursts with the shield" ?
maiden narwhal
cshot not really great for m.e. i guess
maiden narwhal
wdym by "short bursts with the shield" ?
throw retrieve throw retrieve
upper wolf
oh
maiden narwhal
spam it, as much as the animation will allow
upper wolf
with athena you mean ?
maiden narwhal
yes
upper wolf
gotcha gotcha, yeah it's great
maiden narwhal
it's more or less the same as dashing
so it frees up your dash for another god
although athena probably best on dash idk
at the very least, you're not dependent on athena dash, if you're running m.e.
you've got the option of sticking with special
maiden narwhal
shield has been op since the game came out
i love that they just stuck with it
how does billowing strength work with dad call?
do they stack or is it one after the other?
like does the first hit do 120%?
stiff obsidian
billowing doesnt stack afaik
latent moon
cshot not really great for m.e. i guess
cshot is def great for ME
maiden narwhal
lol i beat him without a dash
maiden narwhal
cshot is def great for ME
cshot then dash into them then dash away and cshot?
latent moon
It's Zeus shield right
maiden narwhal
yes
latent moon
Yeah use the disk thingy and cshot enemies in it lmao
maiden narwhal
it doesn't knock back?
latent moon
Knock them back into the thing
tepid light
tbh i find charged shot on zeus shield a bit weird
i assumed the typical playstyle on zeus shield is to constantly run around bashing stuff while the shield 'chases' after you
standing still to use charged shot, if only for a second, seems to run counter to that
tepid light
Yeah use the disk thingy and cshot enemies in it lmao
but i guess this does work, yeah
maiden narwhal
Knock them back into the thing
knock them back how i'm so confused
lavish sorrel
tbh i find charged shot on zeus shield a bit weird
i assumed the typical plays...
If you're mysterra, cshot zeus is free DPS
not for the rest of us mortals though
echo minnow
THAN FINALLY SHOWED UP AGAIN
WE ARE SOOOOOO BACK
aaand he ' s gone again
should i just walk into the lava so i can go back to the house and see him again
actually i have a streak to uphold
imisshimmmhmaioiuguohhhh
tepid light
imisshimmmhmaioiuguohhhh
seems like he doesn't miss you though
echo minnow
what the fish
tepid light
hey just callin it like i see it
nocturne kelp
what the fish
Fish
rugged pivot
How many hours has it taken you, roughly, to get the epilogue?
I'm wondering, because I'm getting back into Hades and I've finished the main story a decent amount of playtime-hours ago
torn phoenix
I'm at 78 hours and I haven't gotten it yet
rustic vale
there's no actual tool tip for that, is there?
I mean not really? But the bar itself tells you
Juncoril explained it well enough
maiden narwhal
yeah the bar tells you if you pay attention to it
rose roost
it was not charged shot it was er
rose roost
and it wasn't haelian it was angel
Explosive return
Haelian just made a video abt it
maiden narwhal
Explosive return
is there a way to boost that damage?
rose roost
nope it always stays at 50
rose roost
one of the few things that don't get boosted by anything
stiff obsidian
im sure its affected by your special boon
rose roost
it is but the 50 dmg is unaffected iirc
maiden narwhal
it's really great news that it wasn't cshot because i just can't get behind it.
stiff obsidian
at high heat zeus cshot kills you i think
rose roost
so pulv and er?
for zeus yeah, cs is still the 2nd best on zeus for casual runs and 1st for speedrun
maiden narwhal
it's really great news that it wasn't cshot because i just can't get behind it.
i don't mean i disagree with it
it mean i suck at it
rose roost
It takes a while to get used to it i also hated it at first lol
rose roost
at high heat zeus cshot kills you i think
unless you are mysterra
maiden narwhal
i don't mean i disagree with it
it mean i suck at it
but the fact that angel used er means i don't have to learn cshot
er is much more my playstyle it's what i get anyway
stiff obsidian
unless you are mysterra<:bouldy:523329116934635534>
i dont think mysterra has done cshot 64
stiff obsidian
oh yea
devout terrace
i have a dillema about hades 2 tbh
do I like rush the highest heats immediately
or actually play through the story
stiff obsidian
problem for when it comes out 😌
maiden narwhal
is 32 every pact base, and 64 every pact maxed?
maiden narwhal
ah good
someone had linked me to a website that's a kind of guide
the one that starts with the tldr about dps vs % boons
i lost it, do you have that?
mint coral
is 32 every pact base, and 64 every pact maxed?
To be specific 64 is every pact and needs you to be in hell mode
Cuz of the exclusive pact to it
mint coral
someone had linked me to a website that's a kind of guide
the one that starts w...
The one in #h1-builds-and-combat pins?
maiden narwhal
i don't know. i don't know how to get to pins anymore
discord changed
nvm i found it
mint coral
Oh yeah forgot about new layout lmao
stiff obsidian
mobile?
mint coral
I haven't updated in months
mint coral
I changed phones recently so I just went with an apk 
maiden narwhal
I changed phones recently so I just went with an apk <:dusa:522248771409543188>
so lucky
mint coral
ok i found pins/links but idk what it's called?
maiden narwhal
it keeps trying to get me to update my username
mint coral
Is the pin below the valentine's challenge for reference
maiden narwhal
danke
maiden narwhal
i really want this maimed lunge but i don't have er so how
this is entry to asphodel
should be doable?
lol don't need er it works fine
maimed lunge stacks?
it just offered me another
so now i'll do 50%+75%?
stiff obsidian
ur dash strikes arent your main damage
stiff obsidian
if you are going forme then doom ofc
maiden narwhal
but otherwise? it's always attack, not dash?
formal citrus
or actually play through the story
Story until you've capped unlockables. Being good and going fast should still make that interesting and close to a challenge. How confident are you feeling in a blind fresh file clear?
formal citrus
I'm a little bummed I couldn't get a hellmode fresh file clear or even my first 10 clears in a row once I got one
I feel like there'll be enough of a challenge to not push heat right away for everyone. Keep the game fresh for longer.
stiff obsidian
i dont think there. will ever be a fresh fresh file clear of hades
maiden narwhal
how far have you gotten?
formal citrus
I think I made it to room 4 in my fresh fresh file
died in ely most recently I think? The fresh file speedrun is impressive stuff
maiden narwhal
room 4?
formal citrus
like chamber 4
maiden narwhal
as in you started a new game and only made it as far as chamber 4?
that doesn't sound right?
torn phoenix
I hope to pull off a fresh file before hades 2
maiden narwhal
is it that difficult?
raw thunder
i just got my first legendary boon and it's greater recall but i have crystal beam cast
love this game
formal citrus
as in you started a new game and only made it as far as chamber 4?
that doesn't...
The first time I played. False is talking about fresh fresh file, as in the first time you play a game, not fresh file.
maiden narwhal
aah
formal citrus
i just got my first legendary boon and it's greater recall but i have crystal be...
beams are super fun when they come together well
maiden narwhal
when do you meet the two flask throwers?
formal citrus
fresh file is doable by a lot of people better at sword than me
torn phoenix
my fresh fresh file was years ago, no way I can remember
formal citrus
when do you meet the two flask throwers?
the tart mini boss, or the many in asphodel? It varies by chamber. Not sure when the earliest you could see them is. I would guess like chamber 4 or 6
maiden narwhal
fresh file is doable by a lot of people better at sword than me
and by this you mean fresh file and kill dad on the first run?
people have done that?
formal citrus
yeah
maiden narwhal
damn
formal citrus
the real world speed run record for it is just over 25 mins iirc
maiden narwhal
i suppose that would really break the dialogue
formal citrus
yeah there's a special dialogue for it iirc
maiden narwhal
hah
formal citrus
maiden narwhal
i really want to try this now
maiden narwhal
can they even offer you duos on a first run?
formal citrus
and i would assume no huge catch (or no posideon at all? Are all 4 gods set the first run?)
defs not easy
maiden narwhal
well like he said
mint coral
and i would assume no huge catch (or no posideon at all? Are all 4 gods set the ...
Athena-ares-dio-artemis yeah
maiden narwhal
people better at sword than me
mint coral
No hammers, no hermes
formal citrus
why get ME when you can get ME and DR
deadly reversal works on things that don't have a base crit change right? It's just splitting headache that's dumb?
mint coral
Yeah
tepid light
deadly reversal my beloved
stiff obsidian
who
stiff obsidian
ooooh
upper wolf
you know what, guan you
halves your HP
torn phoenix
lmao
devout torrent
i think the wiki said 210 or smth
lavish sorrel
What's the new record?
FF wr is 17:41 by Nitrostarch
devout torrent
and you gotta get orpheus and eurydice relationship up iirc
maiden narwhal
i think the wiki said 210 or smth
and the animation is so longgg
formal citrus
FF wr is 17:41 by Nitrostarch
Dang. What's the IGT record?
formal citrus
weird
lavish sorrel
it has to do with its history
people used to do multirun strats, so the most adapted way of measuring that was decided to be real time
encourages fast decisionmaking, too!
formal citrus
not combined igt?
lavish sorrel
they decided against it
formal citrus
I kind of assumed categories were the more the merrier
stone rune
in ff its timed with rta because in the olden days people used multi run strats
steep condor
lmao this harp
it's a lyre😤
formal citrus
did they ultimately clear with the bow once getting a key, or what?
lavish sorrel
ye
formal citrus
and two dashes?
lavish sorrel
and usually extra dashes and DD because they weren't as good as people are nowadays
yep
formal citrus
hermes comes second run?
formal citrus
but now people are better at not being hit and ME is nice?
lavish sorrel
yeah pretty much, people figured out how to beat heroes and dad on run 1 so no we do run 1, because it's faster
mint coral
What's the order again
Run 2 forced zeus
Run 3 hammer
Run 4 pos call?
lavish sorrel
no, I mean run 4 has second hammer
not necessarily as room1 reward
but second hammer along the way
while run3 only has the c1 hammer
lavish sorrel
nope :]
lavish sorrel
nope :]
ff shield cshot reset hell, yay
one of the main reasons why I never sniped ff shield wr
formal citrus
wait do you only get 1 hammer in run 3?
lavish sorrel
1 sounds good
depends on the weapon, if you are using sword and get offered dash nova + cursed slash + flurry slash or whatever then that's quite 
stiff obsidian
no flurry slash slander
formal citrus
when does yellow mirror unlock?
brisk trail
...........
dry mauve
depends on the weapon, if you are using sword and get offered dash nova + cursed...
the hammer of the gods for me
i was desperately hunting for cursed slash for the fated list
it took me 15 runs...
maiden narwhal
if i'm at 21 heat how come I have bounties available at 0 heat?
[with the same weapon]
mint coral
You can just move to heat 1 even if you haven't cleared 0 heat
0 heat is just an exception
maiden narwhal
i wonder how that could have happened
but what even is 0 heat isn't that just a normal clear?
mint coral
Yup
maiden narwhal
so.. if i haven't cleared with a certain weapon, but i have pact up, there'll be a 0 heat default?
huh
mint coral
Is literally not using the pact
maiden narwhal
yeah but it's just funny because it told me i get no more bounties for heat moving forward
but i have bounties available at 0 heat
mint coral
Bounties do cap at 20 heat
You just didn't claim the bounties for clearing w/o pact but yeah still funny
fervent radish
Then don’t play the bounties
maiden narwhal
yeah i wasn't planning to
but it's just annoying because now i know it's there
uncleared
maiden narwhal
how? i'm at 21 now
dry mauve
you need to do 0 heat separately
stiff obsidian
oh rly
dry mauve
any other bounty you can unlock by clearing a higher number
stiff obsidian
wow i never knew that
dry mauve
but for 0 heat bounties you need to beat 0 heat specifically
fervent radish
That’s kinda funny
dry mauve
idk why the devs made it work like that
but that's how it works
its only 5 runs on 0 heat at most
can just play fast
stiff obsidian
yea
but if devs wanted players to play 0 heat they couldve just locked heat for that weapon until
torn phoenix
spingle
maiden narwhal
why my max 63?
mint coral
Non hell mode file
maiden narwhal
ah
mint coral
Hell mode has an extra pact
maiden narwhal
hell mode does what?
mint coral
Starts you with the pact from run 1 and forces 5 heat
Hl1/lc1/js1/cp1/pl (the exclusive pact which deactivates the shield that appears if you lose too much hp quickly)
Non abbreviation is personal liability
Oh also no god mode
maiden narwhal
a shield appears if you lose too much hp too quickly?
mint coral
Yeah
mint coral
Easy to see if you get hit by those laser enemies
maiden narwhal
but how much of a chunk do they need to take out?
mint coral
¯_(ツ)_/¯
true oak
but how much of a chunk do they need to take out?
feels like a third
within a short space of time, but idk
true oak
once i got shield from numbskull
mint coral
Did you have like 20 of them at once or??
mint coral
Oh that makes more sense
true oak
it was thick skin though
dry mauve
to be honest PL barely matters until it does
mint coral
So true
dry mauve
its like an easier version of HS
most of the time it does nothing and then sometimes you get one shot by a witch in elysium
if you are standing next to a wall when one of their balls explodes on you
true oak
pl isn't free, but it's hardly a big deal
dry mauve
yeah ive found that its barely mattered for the majority of my runs
and very, very occasionally i get owned by it
maiden narwhal
is there a special red witch/splitter in tartarus erebus?
i think i've met it twice
mint coral
Is prob one from aspho/ely or a super elite one (dad summons)
latent moon
tartarus erebus can have flame wheels lmao
upper wolf
erebus is so dumb
I wonder if there are like erebus% runs where you are meant to do and perfect multiple erebus gates
mint coral
Tart erebus I pretty much always see aspho enemies lol
And I've seen mega gorgon and super elite B.ball in ely erebus
maiden narwhal
flame wheels and butterflies in erebus is ridiculous
upper wolf
nah nah, you get flames wheels in tart erebus
raw thunder
Is it just me or is guan yu terrible
maiden narwhal
i'm never going into ely erebus again
upper wolf
and normal butterflies in aspho iirc
raw thunder
Like really really bad
maiden narwhal
i was so happy to unlock it lol
upper wolf
and ely you get big mega bball
raw thunder
it kills all your health
upper wolf
Like really really bad
unbind you strike
raw thunder
And heals none
raw thunder
what
maiden narwhal
And heals none
put athena on attack
raw thunder
mint coral
The spin is not very good yeah
maiden narwhal
send huge spinny deflect ball at them
upper wolf
spin sucks
raw thunder
you
upper wolf
and is very niche
upper wolf
yes
mint coral
The special is quite good instead
upper wolf
ideally with charged skewer
raw thunder
but surely it still sucks
true oak
guan yu is so cool i love it
raw thunder
because I have no health
upper wolf
nah it's not bad
mint coral
Is basically exploding launcher built in
maiden narwhal
i change special to left click for guan yu
mint coral
because I have no health
That's sadly a krill issue
upper wolf
you don't need health if there's 5 kilmeters between you and the nearest enemy, and they need to go through artillery strikes to get to you
mint coral
Also what lvl is your gy
raw thunder
you don't need health if there's 5 kilmeters between you and the nearest enemy, ...
Witches circle
raw thunder
Also what lvl is your gy
I just got it
mint coral
70% hp cut vs 50% is a neat difference
upper wolf
Witches circle
athena
void vigil
🎇
void vigil
i beat a run with GY level 1 please clap
mint coral
Witches circle
Your special should destroy projectiles afaik
Also do you have meg's summon?
mint coral
i beat a run with GY level 1 please clap
👏
upper wolf
get dynoed 
raw thunder
Also do you have meg's summon?
trying to get it
jagged hamlet
Blood & Darkness!
maiden narwhal
idk why there are curse filters
nobody swears more than a middleschooler
12 year olds swear like sailors
upper wolf
yeah
void vigil
nary a swear in hades 
upper wolf
RNG in runs < RNG with dialogues
jagged hamlet
It took me until my 135th run to see Meg in the room
mint coral
Not swearing is not bad anyways
raw thunder
It took me until my 135th run to see Meg in the room <:zagsad:101280527551170155...
you know I think I’ll just spam reset for Arthur
upper wolf
idk why there are curse filters
nobody swears more than a middleschooler
12 ye...
maybe it's precisely to avoid middle schoolers
raw thunder
actually does the game not let you
upper wolf
to protect adults from middle schoolers
raw thunder
For the last 2 failed attempts nix hasn’t even shown up
void vigil
its not about the age per se, its about the environment here. its chill without swearing and its also not very hard to not swear
mint coral
For the last 2 failed attempts nix hasn’t even shown up
Just rng
raw thunder
got it
mint coral
Unless you are pressing give up which reverts anything to before the escape
raw thunder
I think I’m going to self game end in asphodel now
I don’t want to use a bow with 60 health
maiden narwhal
forced overtime is not a punishment it's a boon
upper wolf
I don’t want to use a bow with 60 health
yeah
lavish sorrel
forced overtime is not a punishment it's a boon
as a freshfiler I would beg to differ 
raw thunder
And then I win
upper wolf
GY is, like, very high skill floor (or rather very unintuitive one), and very high skill ceilling (for the few madlads who play it )
lavish sorrel
I like gy
raw thunder
GY is, like, very high skill floor (or rather very unintuitive one), and very hi...
I just wanted the 2 ambrosia
lavish sorrel
I suck at it but I love it
upper wolf
And then I win
yeah kinda
raw thunder
Give me back my titan blood 😭
maiden narwhal
em 4
max bp mm fo let's go
upper wolf
you still need to play a bit carefully, but like
mint coral
If you want to be funny, getting quick spin also makes the spin much better
upper wolf
as long as you don't go unga bunga you should be fine
raw thunder
you still need to play a *bit* carefully, but like
“A bit carefully”
lavish sorrel
Give me back my titan blood 😭
no, the aspect is based 
raw thunder
Dies in 2 hits to the final boss
lavish sorrel
Dies in 2 hits to the final boss
ok but who doesn't pick up at least one heart along the way
raw thunder
I just wanted the 2 ambrosia
Oh about the prophecy it says get to the surface
upper wolf
just use GY on your tenth clear 4Head
raw thunder
do I not need to beat the final boss
maiden narwhal
you still need to play a *bit* carefully, but like
if i can't jenkins with it, i don't want to play it
upper wolf
I thiiink you don't need to ?
raw thunder
great
upper wolf
if i can't jenkins with it, i don't want to play it
valid
raw thunder
Thanks chat
upper wolf
in any case you get a big jpg of the aspect and some dialogue when reaching Hades, even if you don't beat him
stiff obsidian
I like Guan yu until i die to chip damage
mint coral
do I not need to beat the final boss
Yeah no need
upper wolf
so, like, I assume that's what the prophecy cares about
mint coral
All hidden aspects prophecies are "reach the surface"
maiden narwhal
the really annoying ones are god boons
you need to clear for those
took me aeons to find the hermes one. bad something
and then i found it twice and died to dad twice
i cry
upper wolf
oh, for bad news you need stygian soul
then either his keepsake or another boon which I don't remember
mint coral
Huh? You just need to pick them for the prophecies no
upper wolf
I think the codex should tell you if you have the upgrade
mint coral
then either his keepsake or another boon which I don't remember
Auto reload/plume
maiden narwhal
Huh? You just need to pick them for the prophecies no
no you have to clear i'm p sure
stiff obsidian
No just pick up
true oak
it's pick up
lavish sorrel
p sure only some keepsakes have a "clear with this" prophecy
namely chaos
the achievements are get all keepsakes, and level all keepsakes to max
maiden narwhal
i wish forging bonds did something
beyond giving you the cute little anime stylisation
hades 2!
forging bonds lets you combine duos
form like voltron
maiden narwhal
idk. increased boon rarity chance, at least
or unlock a special megaboon
or just break the limit on keepsake level yeah
and charge ambrosia to level
true oak
i think npc keepsakes should force their appearance tbh
maiden narwhal
i think npc keepsakes should force their appearance tbh
that would be ideal
especially for the megastyx guy
who is only ever around when you don't need him
mint coral
earliest as possible? or just that he will show up
maiden narwhal
exactly
so you want to summon him when you need him
not when he chooses to show up
mint coral
running spearpoint for a free room sounds hilarious
at least for high heat
and I wonder if one guaranteed free room would beat having to time save with like earring
prob would
maiden narwhal
what do y'all usually get from eurydices?
stone rune
nectar
maiden narwhal
or rather.. what do you avoid?
mint coral
nectar
stone rune
ambrosia almost never take
true oak
and I wonder if one guaranteed free room would beat having to time save with lik...
i was thinking styx dark
well at least for me
maybe skill issue i suppose
maiden narwhal
what's the blue forcefield numbskulls have at max?
sage sphinx
what do y'all usually get from eurydices?
If I already have a complete build, especially if I don't need a duo, sometimes I'll take ambrosia? Most of the time I'll take nectar though. I guess the pom option is probably technically better than ambrosia
maiden narwhal
it didn't hit me so i don't know what it does
mint coral
what's the blue forcefield numbskulls have at max?
you mean savior?
it gives them damage control shields
so blocks the next hit
maiden narwhal
If I already have a complete build, especially if I don't need a duo, sometimes ...
i wish pom would apply more than once
you could keep your build tight af and then get like 4 levels into one
sage sphinx
Savior adds shields where they don't take a single instance of samage
mint coral
no yeah that's the savior effect
sage sphinx
It's part of benefits package yeah
maiden narwhal
but not an aura a ring
mint coral
maiden narwhal
no yeah that's the savior effect
ah ok
sage sphinx
Savior cloners are the actual worst lol
maiden narwhal
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/608403611151761438/702994531749986445/B...
most of these die too soon to see the effect it's sad
mint coral
isn't savior cloners one of the banned combos
maiden narwhal
most of these die too soon to see the effect it's sad
maybe not at high heat tho
except you guys do speed runs at high heat
so yeah they die quickly then too
sage sphinx
isn't savior cloners one of the banned combos
I think I've seen it happen? I don't play modded
true oak
heavy knuckle, awful
mint coral
yeah long knuckle is the go to
true oak
👍
maiden narwhal
heavy knuckle, awful
doesnt that make you sturdy?
true oak
no that's a different hammer
maiden narwhal
ah ok
true oak
it gives you base 40 hits but slow and 3 at a time
maiden narwhal
yeah that one is the worst
true oak
it's not always terrible i guess? but fists builds are all flat damage
maiden narwhal
but it must synergise with something?
that makes it bloom into life?
true oak
i mean you would go %
like spread fire
but it's really not worth it
not awful though
mint coral
but it must synergise with something?
that makes it bloom into life?
the talos in question:
gotta use that attack buff
true oak
i regularly forget talos exists
maiden narwhal
it used to be my favourite aspect in the whole game
mint coral
same
mystic lark
Ares on rail attack 🤔
maiden narwhal
who even plays lucifer like that wow
stone rune
well thats a choice
maiden narwhal
i guess
and it's clearly worked for them
what decides if a foe is armoured or not?
upper wolf
rng mostly
some, like minibosses and hades summons, are always armored
but otherwise it's RNG.
using Benefit Packages increases the number of armoured foes
but it's still RNG
maiden narwhal
using Benefit Packages increases the number of armoured foes
the number or the chance?
or is that the same thing?
upper wolf
oh, the chance
which increases the number technically. As in, you'll see more of them, because they're more likely to spawn.
maiden narwhal
yes
upper wolf
Also rooms have a "weight" system
where different enemies have different weights
and a room can only have up to such or such weight
and armoured foes have a higher weight than others, so you won't have as many enemies if some are armoured. Also means you're less likely to get them in the first few chambers of a biome, since rooms get a bigger weight as you get through the biome
which is why the last room of Elysium is a pain
maiden narwhal
so it's not pure rng, how far along also matters
got it
and will armoured mobs drop more gold?
or are they more likely to drop more gold?
or are they just more of a pain in the ass
strong ridge
and armoured foes have a higher weight than others, so you won't have as many enemies if some are armoured.
only "benefit" but you still have to chew thru 2 health so
stiff obsidian
Me when Eris hammer start and c1 is armoured thug
maiden narwhal
mechanics(?) question:
when you get something that increases % damage of attack.. is that applying to base weapon attack, or boon on weapon attack?
i hope the question makes sense phrased that way
stiff obsidian
Give an example
maiden narwhal
like if chaos gives you something that increases attack damage
and i have no boon on my attack
it's going towards that base
but if i have ares on attack
then what?
stiff obsidian
If it says attack % it's always on base
proper tusk
iirc most things in this game are additive
so if you have a 60% boon and then get 50% from chaos on the same thing you get a total of 110% damage boost
not positive
but ive heard that a few times
stiff obsidian
Yea
proper tusk
also pretty sure damage increases won’t do anything to doom damage
maiden narwhal
no but what if you're not running % damage boons
what if it's ares or zeus
how does chaos % increase work then?
maiden narwhal
also pretty sure damage increases won’t do anything to doom damage
right so then it's pointless to pick it?
proper tusk
then your main attack boon gives 0% attack up so a 40% attack up from chaos would mean a 40% total increase to attack damage?
mystic lark
AFAIK if your boon adds damage percentage, it adds with the chaos boons. If your boons add it's own damage, like doom, hangover or lightning, you still have your base damage that is increased by chaos, and on top of that you have effect from your boon.
proper tusk
right so then it's pointless to pick it?
what
maiden narwhal
AFAIK if your boon adds damage percentage, it adds with the chaos boons. If your...
is the base damage significant?
mystic lark
So if you have 100 basic, 100 doom and +30% chaos, you will deal 130 regular damage + 100 doom
But if you have 100 basic, 50% aphro and 30% chaos, you will deal 180 regular damage
maiden narwhal
as i progress, and pom my doom damage, base damage matters less, right?
mystic lark
as i progress, and pom my doom damage, base damage matters less, right?
Exactly
dry mauve
how much damage depends on how often you're hitting with it
proper tusk
if youre doing like
mystic lark
And what you are hitting with. For example bow special does very little damage
proper tusk
merciful end fists
dry mauve
tbh most things can be boiled down into raw numbers
proper tusk
your base attack damage isn’t really going to matter
maiden narwhal
your base attack damage isn’t really going to matter
right so there i'll want to avoid that chaos option, right?
upper wolf
is the base damage significant?
I mean, it's literally the same damage used for every %dmg increase
mint coral
for ME you pretty much only want like favor from them
just take the less annoying curse
dry mauve
30% chaos on fists is probably like 20-30 dps at most
upper wolf
if you have a base damage of 40 and gets a chaos boon for 50% damage, you'll get 20 more damage on your attack. And that's the same whether you already have 50000% damage increase on attack or none
dry mauve
regardless of what kind of attack boon you have
its the same dps increase
well okay its a bigger dps increase if you have artemis attack specifically
upper wolf
yeah, crits are multiplicative
dry mauve
but with any other attack boon, the chaos buff is giving the same dps
so whether it is good or not can just be considered in a vacuum
maiden narwhal
still don't know, if i have dio on my [z shield ]attack, if i should take attack % increase over, say, another cast
mystic lark
still don't know, if i have dio on my [z shield ]attack, if i should take attack...
If you have dio, chaos will not affect hangover damage
dry mauve
is z shield zag shield or zeus shield?
you can just break everything down into raw numbers
maiden narwhal
is z shield zag shield or zeus shield?
sorry. zeus
dry mauve
for the most part its just the numbers that matter
mystic lark
Just show us your build )
maiden narwhal
it's a general question, not a specific one
it's one i've been thinking about for a while
stone rune
another cast is not going to do anything for you
attack damage will do a little bit
or a lot if u have cshot
maiden narwhal
If you have dio, chaos will not affect hangover damage
so in this case the base damage increase is irrelevant and i'm better off with something else
stiff obsidian
Why would it be irrelevant
maiden narwhal
another cast is not going to do anything for you
if i'm running stygian and trippy
or pos cast
stiff obsidian
It makes up for the lack of a % boon
stone rune
on zeus shield?
maiden narwhal
Why would it be irrelevant
because the hangover is doing all the damage?
stiff obsidian
Yeah, so why would extra damage hurt
maiden narwhal
on zeus shield?
yeah
what's wrong with hangover and trippy on zeus shield?
stone rune
ur cast is not a focus on zeus
stiff obsidian
You don't have to put anything
stone rune
ur losing lodge damage
stiff obsidian
No boiling blood
dry mauve
trippy actually makes you lose boiling blood damage
maiden narwhal
ur losing lodge damage
hm
dry mauve
its unfortunately not a super great cast
stone rune
theres more of an argument for something like zeus cast
maiden narwhal
but it synergises so well with hangover
maiden narwhal
so if trippy doesn't work, don't bother with hangover also?
tawdry fossil
so if trippy doesn't work, don't bother with hangover also?
Trippy barely matters on smth like zeus
upper wolf
Meh, I'd say trippy is not that bad
tawdry fossil
The hangover damage from the attack is still pretty helpful
Doesn't make hangover useless
upper wolf
It's better to go dmg% on attack, zeus on special and boiling blood on cast
maiden narwhal
It's better to go dmg% on attack, zeus on special and boiling blood on cast
yes you said
upper wolf
but you can go "aspect of dio" on anything at low heat. It's like very very budget aspect of rod
maiden narwhal
but i'm not forcing gods so i can't guarantee zeus
dry mauve
zeus shield is also very flexible
tawdry fossil
It's better to go dmg% on attack, zeus on special and boiling blood on cast
Artemis attack is pretty fun
dry mauve
you can do whatever and it will work
the aspect makes reasonable use out of a ton of boons
especially if you're not optimizing for heat or speedrunning
you can take whatever you want on zeus shield and it will be good
maiden narwhal
It's better to go dmg% on attack, zeus on special and boiling blood on cast
i had an athena attack zeus special dio call run and it was insanely strong
stronger than my m.e i think
or maybe dad call can't remember
but yeah % on attack is amazing
upper wolf
yeah, which means % on attack with chaos is still good
dry mauve
zeus special is the most consistent starting boon but the aspect is flexible and powerful enough that you can not force anything and still win
maiden narwhal
but yeah % on attack is amazing
but only if i have zeus on the special?
upper wolf
even if you have hangover on it already
maiden narwhal
cool i will pick attack next time
i've avoided it because i've never been sure
upper wolf
I mean, it's a bit... deep ? idk how to say
dry mauve
zeus shield makes use of almost everything
attack boon is good because you attack fairly often with it
upper wolf
but it's not really intuitive that %dmg boons are as good with 0% as with 4000%
dry mauve
special boon is very good because your special is key to the weapon
dash boon obviously good
cast boon is at the very least free extra damage since you'll throw out your cast sometimes
at the very minimum to get boiling blood
tawdry fossil
special boon is very good because your special is key to the weapon
Honestly spamming that w explosive return is what got me my first win
dry mauve
call boon is good because zeus shield builds call super fast
upper wolf
it might clutter your pom pool though
dry mauve
yeah the only thing you want to keep an eye on is what is pommable
but if you pom one of your core boons a bit then later poms are less valuable
upper wolf
except hangover, funnily
maiden narwhal
poms give diminishing returns on attack?
upper wolf
yeah
mystic lark
poms give diminishing returns on attack?
Not only on attack
dry mauve
most boons have diminishing pom returns
upper wolf
after level 9, yeah?
why 9 ?
dry mauve
level 9 is way too high for most boons
maiden narwhal
at one point i wondered why it didn't go to 10
mystic lark
For example Poseidon's Special level 2 to 6 is +28%, +20%, +14%, +10%, +7%. Past level 6, for most boons, strength will continue to increase at a small linear value; for example, Aphrodite's Strike level 5 to 6 and higher will always increase by 5% per level. Some exceptions exist, however, such as Ares's Doom-inflicting boons, that will continue to decrease until it will add 1 per level only.
dry mauve
those later poms are really bad
upper wolf
diminishing returns start instantly, and usually maxes at level 6
dry mauve
dio is a big exception, he usually hits his diminishing return cap very early, but even +1 hangover damage is valuable
so dio essentially has no pom fall off
maiden narwhal
but you also said don't spread out poms
when i asked a while ago someone said poms should be focussed, not spread out
i usually put them all into attack
dry mauve
you want to pom your core damage boons a few times
then probably start taking other rewards over poms
since the pom bonus falls off
stone rune
it generally depends on build
upper wolf
when i asked a while ago someone said poms should be focussed, not spread out
yes, because a small increase on 90% of your DPS is usually better than a big increase on something you just don't use
dry mauve
poms should still be concentrated into your core damage boons since pomming something bad is basically useless
even if its level 1 -> level 2
like upgrading athena dash to level 2 barely does anything
stone rune
like on beo if ur pom screen is arty atk pos flare hunters mark theres no reason to not take the flare
dry mauve
its still worse than upgrading your attack from level 4 to level 5
even if you're hitting diminishing returns, pomming the thing that you actually use most matters
mystic lark
like upgrading athena dash to level 2 barely does anything
I wonder if there are any cases when pomming athena dash is viable
maiden narwhal
even if you're hitting diminishing returns, pomming the thing that you actually ...
ok got it
maiden narwhal
I wonder if there are any cases when pomming athena dash is viable
when your other two options are worse
i've had that happen
if athena dash is your only boon and pom is your only door is also a fun time
maiden narwhal
do you think dad call better than acorn for em4?
and if i sell my call, will dad call unlock?
dry mauve
if you sell your call you can take dad call im pretty sure
but also acorn is probably best
especially if you already have a call
maiden narwhal
cool thanks
mint coral
dad call is pretty much speedrun only
autumn rose
whar
dry mauve
yes
maiden narwhal
it shouldn't it specifically says mini boss
dry mauve
he summons mini bosses :^)
dry mauve
does it not?
mint coral
nope
dry mauve
ok im happy to be wrong
maiden narwhal
ok im happy to be wrong
fr
mm is not something i'd want to have to give up [to then have pick something more punishing]
formal citrus
man, the slammer coming down with the shock wave on EM4. EEEEEESH
That would be a mega rough time. But also, I kind of want to see that.
upper wolf
it is mega rough
formal citrus
is?
jagged flower
So for new bounties I have to do 4 Heat with sword, but lets say I want to do 10 heat and I clear it, will the new bounties just go up to 5 still?
stone rune
never punished
mint coral
So for new bounties I have to do 4 Heat with sword, but lets say I want to do 10...
yeah
torn phoenix
Spingle
mint lantern
guys, curse of pain or tempest flourish?
using stygean
tempest is epic, but can trade for that curse of pain heroic
also have a common impeding doom
and i already have curse of agony
stone rune
guys, curse of pain or tempest flourish?
preferably neither
but probably take the doom special
because pos special is actively negative
mint lantern
okay
mint lantern
ty
formal citrus
push is really bad and annoying
Cause it messes up your targetting when you're trying to kill things super fast?
stone rune
its like
on sword
you have a rather short range
u want ur dash strikes to land
pos special makes them land less
upper wolf
Wouldn't doom special be pretty good on sword ?
I don't really see much competing with it damage wise. It can't really scale much, but it doesn't need to
stone rune
i think sword special has 2 purposes
opening duos and killing things it can kill in 1 hit
particularly if u manage to meet the breakpoint to kill eyes in ely
doom special is not helping u with duos here
and while it does meet the breakpoint for the heads, it may not kill them before they respawn if you catch them late especially with impending
i think zeus special is more prudent typically
or something like arty on nem
where it can either open up heart rend with aph atk or help you get more marked procs
upper wolf
Oh yeah, makes sense
upper wolf
I sometimes forget that going for raw damage is not necessarily the best, you need to be able to use that damage well
upper wolf
they already have doom
Ah
stone rune
in a general case i could see an argument for doom special
because sword is a messed up sick and twisted weapon
trim spire
maaaaan
trying to consistently go through the 3rd underworld really is kicking my ass
west relic
What’s the point of descending in a run?
stone rune
What’s the point of descending in a run?
descending?
mint coral
Chaos gates
west relic
Damn. I should’ve been doing that
west relic
descending?
Thank you
covert hare
I also thought chaos would descend me to a previous chamber lol
tepid light
descending to a previous chamber wouldn't be too bad theoretically because then you could just repeat a particular room and get the reward again