h1-discussion

[rare flume]

destrucrible pillars hurt you as well?

[mint coral]

I want to say they don't but not sure

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[formal citrus]

No

We're talking about the well item that buffs trap damage

[stiff obsidian]

wait, so if an enemy has weak and then i get 15% more from broken resolve how would it add up

[formal citrus]

I assumed that increased weak itself but now I'm not so sure.

[rare flume]

i dont even play with damage numbers

i just go by the "feels"

btw i like skelly story wise enough but gameplay wise he has pretty much no purpose outside of maybe when you unlock weapon aspect for first time

[stiff obsidian]

sometimes they can mean something completely different bc theyre worded poorly

[formal citrus]

Like his keepsake? I used it the most until I turned on TD

Just needed the heat off me

[rare flume]

i still use his keepsake

but i meant is like no point bashing at him

if he could maybe change to other enemies and or bossses

[formal citrus]

Can be good practice. The mod to let you grab boons and stuff in that room seems nice

[rare flume]

i dont use mods

[stiff obsidian]

i still have trouble with dashstriking and find him useful

for practice

[formal citrus]

Yeah. Figuring out dash strike bow timing on skelly helped a lot

[rare flume]

do you use keyboard or controller

[stiff obsidian]

kbm

[rare flume]

i dont use dash strike on bow EVER

[formal citrus]

Controller

[rare flume]

unless accidentally

[formal citrus]

Why not?

[rare flume]

im keyboard too

because dash strike on bow seems pointless

[stiff obsidian]

i meant for all weapons lol, whenever i dash strike i forget to direct it

i end up either dashing away but attacking towards, or dashing towards but attacking away

[twin thistle]

dash strike charges way faster

[stiff obsidian]

but not both

[rare flume]

honestly i dont even use attack on bow that much, i just spam special like a cretin unless i get that hammer that lets you spam attack

[formal citrus]

Flurry shot is very nice

Bow takes some practice but feels good

[crystal star]

Wha

Special isnt even that good if you dont have rama or chiron

Its fine but you should be attacking way more

[stiff obsidian]

i think they use chiron

[crystal star]

O

[twin thistle]

tbh non upgraded bow without good hammers doesnt have very great damage

[formal citrus]

that's kinda worse lol, if they never attack

[crystal star]

Yeah wait

That sucks even more

[rare flume]

but it charges so slow man

[formal citrus]

hence dash striking

[crystal star]

No it doesn’t??

[twin thistle]

yeah with chiron you still want to dash strike

[crystal star]

Also if you dash strike its faster

[rare flume]

im afraid i will never master dash strike with bow

[crystal star]

Just need practice

[formal citrus]

but also, yeah, Rama might not be for you right now

[crystal star]

Or controller

[rare flume]

well mastering it is one thing but like deliberately using it is another

[crystal star]

But why no attack

It takes less then a second to fully charge

And you cant take advantage of chiron without atk

[twin thistle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/969094772142784552/Hades_2022-04-27_20-32-38_Trim.mp4 you can shoot pretty quickly with dash strike

[rare flume]

oof

[crystal star]

Booyah

[twin thistle]

the pests definitely werent paid actors

[crystal star]

Shhh

[rare flume]

i use attack mostly in tartarus but later there is so much happening on screen and jumping enemies and moving fast, it feels to me detrimental to just stand around and charge it for every attack

[crystal star]

Stand?

Then you dash…

Also

Stuff wont be so chaotic once you get better at the game

[rare flume]

🇴 🇭

[crystal star]

So it will be easier to avoid attacks and attack yourself

[stiff obsidian]

does controller have better autoaim

[formal citrus]

First time doing anything in the game definitely feels overwhelming

[crystal star]

Yeah i think so

[formal citrus]

I only have issues with it when things are out of range

[twin thistle]

yeah controller has a lot of aim assist

[stiff obsidian]

[crystal star]

If your face is even slightly looking at the enemy it will lock onto them

[rare flume]

my next run will be heat 7 with eris rail

i already failed it once

[formal citrus]

Eris took me a while to figure out but now it's my fav gun

[rare flume]

well i have only eris and zagreus unlocked and maxed so

[winged valve]

could try hestia instead, it's IMHO kind of a similar vibe

you dash fire, dash fire a lot

the difference is you don't have to time a power shot. You just reload-dash instead of dash

[rare flume]

sir, i dont have hestia unlocked yet

[latent moon]

Go for Zeus attack

If you weren't already

Artemis/Aphrodite on the special

Tidal dash

Find static discharge from zeus, high priority

[formal citrus]

The duos of zeus with either of those is nice

75% boosted lightning rods (If infernal soul obvi) or frequent call are dope

[young moth]

What are the best fist aspects?

[formal citrus]

Demeter is going to be the most popular answer. I like zag fists for Dodge builds because I did and don't do damage fast enough otherwise. Talos and Gilga have a lot of haters.

[young moth]

Yeah I guess dem damage wise is strictly a bit better than zag right?

But zag is safer

[formal citrus]

Indeed

I wouldn't say im particularly good with dem. Apparently it sets up merciful end better than anything else by the special being able to better carry until you get ME

Dodge chances being additive makes going for all sources of dodge with zag work well for me.

[latent moon]

Yeah zag fists don't give you any extra damage, Talos' gimmick kinda just sucks, and gilga mechanically is kinda bad

[young moth]

Zag is really broken when you have lambert plume and greater evasion

[latent moon]

The issue is starting and keeping plume so build control is gone

[rare flume]

thats a lot to ask for rng but ill try

[latent moon]

Not really

Start Zeus keepsake

You can take any % special other than Poseidon tbh

Tidal dash isn't completely necessary but you get a lot of damage out of it

[rare flume]

i already started athena

oops

[latent moon]

Welp

Why would you do that lmao

[rare flume]

umm

because athena dash

[latent moon]

Ah

You're safer if they're dead

[rare flume]

sure

[latent moon]

Starting ddash on certain aspects just hinders you way too much

[rare flume]

well im not doing the run now but soonish

[latent moon]

Fair enough

[formal citrus]

fated authority's use!

[latent moon]

That only works if you get a hammer start lmao

[rare flume]

i mean

[latent moon]

Otherwise you have to keep dying to get a good start god

[rare flume]

i can always kill mysefl in next chamber

[latent moon]

You could hit give up and take a different keepsake

[rare flume]

altho in tartarus it would be a while with 3 defiances

oh yeah

[formal citrus]

Or just hope on the next room

[rare flume]

actually *uck it, im gonna try bananas guide right now

[latent moon]

Are you gonna do 32 heat now lmao

[rare flume]

no

heat 7

[formal citrus]

I should probably try your guide to see how different it feels to my mode of usual lol

[latent moon]

The builds?

They're all just meta builds lmao

[rare flume]

what should i do in the mirror for hestia?

[latent moon]

Whatever my guide says but death defiance over stubborn defiance

[rare flume]

i cant point screenshot here, i can post my mirror in other channel if you want

[formal citrus]

The heat. My optimized fun 32 heat rn is LC2, JS3, EM4, CP2, BP2, MM, DC1, TD1

[latent moon]

Use image link

[rare flume]

yeah i never use stubborn

[latent moon]

Oh that sounds like an experience

[rare flume]

i rarely die in normal rooms

unless its styx

[formal citrus]

All purple except the first, last, and 3rd and 4th last

[rare flume]

the first is purple

[formal citrus]

DC kinda just doesn't work on some aspects. I like it forcing me to use the special on the bow.

[royal warren]

Unlocking "green" talents in the Mirror: wiki claims it happens upon conversation with Nyx after collecting at least 300 Darkness. I'm sitting at 2.7k unspent Darkness after unlocking what was possible so far, I've done at least 12-15 runs, and still no green talents. What gives?

[formal citrus]

Do you not have the arrows on the right to swap them?

[royal warren]

Trick question? The arrows would be on the left, and no

[formal citrus]

Oh, mb

[rare flume]

boiling blood or abyssal

[latent moon]

Have you been talking to nyx

[latent moon]

Boiling

[royal warren]

I talk to everyone

[latent moon]

Just use my mirror guide with death defiance over stubborn defiance lmao

[formal citrus]

Without any timer? I'm not so sure.

[rare flume]

you wanted me to take whose keepsake, zeus?

[latent moon]

There's not much of a reason to take abyssal tbh

[formal citrus]

For hestia? No

[formal citrus]

Taking 30% less damage vs bosses seems more worthwhile than doing like 25% effective more damage.

[rare flume]

banana said zeus no?

[formal citrus]

For eris

Not for hestia

[rare flume]

yes eris

i dont have hestia

stupid dyno

[formal citrus]

Ah, yeah, defs fiery for eris

And Zeus

[rare flume]

ok zeus then

what companion

[formal citrus]

Backstab is more inconsequential on eris than any other aspect

[rare flume]

yeah backstab seems bad for ranged

[formal citrus]

It's doable but yeah, not as easy

[mint coral]

More than that
+50% to your 10 dmg pellets ain't doing much

[rare flume]

hmm what to choose for 7 heat

ok im going

[stone rune]

just had ddash ap1d 3 times in a row

i’m going hell mode

[rare flume]

wtf

zeus on attack on rail is so good

[stone rune]

yea it’s the best attack

for non hestia aspects

this is what i meant with this lol #h1-builds-and-combat message

dio attack also has some niches

but zeus is generally better

if you have it rn your goal is to get the static discharge secondary boon from zeus

and get it to a good level

everyone always underestimated just how much damage it is

[stone rune]

benefits package 2 and middle management

relatively easy and also is a fun addition cause both of those change gameplay

[rare flume]

i did benefits package 1 but not middle management

i just did erebus successfully

[stone rune]

gg

i just failed one cause a speeder chariot spawned 2 inches from my face

[winged valve]

I feel like I'm the opposite, I just got stuck on zeus early for any weapon with fast hitting attacks and now I'm trying really hard to branch out

cause it was getting a bit stale

[stone rune]

i mean jolted

[winged valve]

yeah, jolted as well

I mean you have to have a way to put jolted on everything right

I want to do zeus shield with Merciful End; I tried it and the boons didn't work out

but I think it'll just be pretty funny

you have a spinning shield deflecting everything, and you can block, and then on top of that spam doom pretty fast

[stone rune]

that’s the speedrun build

[rare flume]

which keepsake out of tartarus

[stone rune]

what aspect

probably poseidon

[rare flume]

eris

[stone rune]

yea

poseidon

get tidal dash

[rare flume]

ok

[stone rune]

pom it

[rare flume]

why tho, i usually dont dash through enemies with rail

[stone rune]

it has big aoe

and huge damage

especially on eris with global buff

change your playstyle to accommodate it

[rare flume]

i got epic tidal dash with 2 boons to choose

[stone rune]

?

[rare flume]

you wanted me to get a tidal dash

i somehow rolled it epic with only 2 boons to choose

[stone rune]

yea but wdym 2 boons to choose

[rare flume]

i forgot how this heat condition is called

approval process

[stone rune]

oh

yea don’t take that

until 40+ heat

[rare flume]

like it better than other options

[stone rune]

it’s way harder

[rare flume]

i always know what to take from sisyphus and patroclus

never know what to take from eurodyce

[stone rune]

typically nectar

for hermes

[rare flume]

ok im out of asphodel

what keepsake now

[stone rune]

acorn or hourglass

[rare flume]

i took neither

[stone rune]

guys

i’m on hera 40 rn

[rare flume]

im out of asphodel

[stone rune]

in ely midbiome

[rare flume]

gg

[stone rune]

do i hourglass the braid

[rare flume]

i dont plan to go higher than 32 once

[stone rune]

i’m doing it this will be funny

[royal widget]

acorn

oh too late

[rare flume]

@royal widget i did take acorn at the end

[stone rune]

played like 3 minutes of heat and now my brain is broken

didn’t even notice bad pace till c12 and 1:50 lmao

[rare flume]

any tips for sword?

i have only zagreus and nemesis so obviously nemesis

heat 7

[royal widget]

double edge

[rare flume]

actually i have also poseidon sorry i forgot

[stone rune]

well nemesis is the best

[rare flume]

but poseidon seems trash

[stone rune]

poseidon is ok

but nemesis is the only actually good sword aspect

for sword you wanna do dash strike x2 into special

try it on skelly

i can send u a vid if u want

[rare flume]

now i i get it

[stone rune]

and yea double edge is the best hammer

flurry slash, world splitter, cursed slash, and dash nova are all actively negative

[rare flume]

what boons rather

[stone rune]

hoarding slash is useless and so is cruel thrust and shadow slash

the non double edge hammers to get are piercing wave or breaching slash

[stone rune]

arty atk

[rare flume]

shadow slash is useless? why

[stone rune]

it doesn’t work on dash strikes

[rare flume]

i dont know what i do, i do probably mishmash of dash slashes and normal attacks

i just mash buttons lol

[stone rune]

well try out the rotation

dash strikes should do 30 damage

standing strikes do like 25

[rare flume]

thats not a big difference

i was asking more what god boons

i should take athena cause its melee

[stone rune]

well it’s important for using sword properly

your dps is a lot lower

it’s not just lower base damage dash strikes also come out faster

[stone rune]

artemis attack

divine dash is ok

zeus or dio calls are both good

from hermes extra dashes is very good

and then yea

that’s sorta it

you can go for a few specific duos

deadly reversal

heart rend

etc etc

but the core stuff is simple

[rare flume]

i got hammer at start

gonna take flurry slash

[stone rune]

don’t

it’s really bad

[rare flume]

i like it tho

and the other option was thrust

[stone rune]

a useless one is better than something actively negative

wait

do you still have approval process on

[rare flume]

yes

[stone rune]

give up and take it off

[rare flume]

no i dont like any other

[stone rune]

put on middle management or underworld customs

[rare flume]

i do have middle management

underworld custom i dont like

[stone rune]

it’s free heat

so long as you remember it

[rare flume]

the only free heat for me is damage control and maybe first deadline

[stone rune]

damage control is not free

you don’t take that till like 45 heat

[rare flume]

i do take damage control CONSTANTLY

it was literally first i took

[stone rune]

you do you then

[rare flume]

besides im not looking to master the game, after i max out last heart, buy all themes and all house contractor stuff and unlock all the weapons, i may try to check them and do heat 32 for skelly

but after that im out

[latent moon]

Damage control kinda invalidates certain aspects

[rare flume]

i mean i wouldnt use it with bow probably

unpopular thing to do: every time i enter and orpheus is singing i go to music stand and click on and off whichever piece just to shut him up

dont get me wrong, i like the music

i listened to each first time i heard it but

he just sings so much louder than rest and i prefer ambient in the house

[latent moon]

any bow, sword, hestia rail, certain shields

prob guan yu if you're doing special spam

makes rocket bomb on rail a lot worse to utilize since you can't open up fights with it

and because of the nature of lightning strike, you wont proc fiery presence if you stripe it with a bullet because the lightning strike will damage afterwards

you'd have to aim at an enemy you chained on or run dc2, which is objectively worse lmao

[mint ember]

Imagine for a moment the voice actor for Patroclus reads 'The Song of Achilles' as an audiobook

[formal citrus]

But it's a great excuse to use the special!

[formal citrus]

It isn't a fun one even if it's a relatively easy one imo

[latent moon]

Or just use tidal dash or something

[rare flume]

what is the worst duo boon

[mint ember]

Exclusive access in temple of Styx

[latent moon]

Parting shot or unshakeable mettle probably

[rare flume]

i vote the one that restricts your call to 1 bar

[latent moon]

That's like one of the best duos

[formal citrus]

Cold embrace is so hard to use.

[rare flume]

unshakable mettle is good

[formal citrus]

Like, the one time I think it can be useful is Achilles and even then it doesn't feel great. Rough when it has a comparison that is so much better.

I now have a soft spot for parting shot.

[mint ember]

I get the feeling u shakeable mettle gets better the higher heat you go

[formal citrus]

I would say it's generally and specifically better than cold embrace.

[latent moon]

Not really

[formal citrus]

Higher heat players are better at avoiding stubs and damage in general.

[latent moon]

The only good use for it at high heat is selling it for money so you can afford something through cf

[latent moon]

Ngl I forgot that existed lmao

Cold embrace definitely bottom barrel

[formal citrus]

Like, I can't think of many times it isn't actively detrimental, to use the phrase

[mint ember]

hold on cold embrace with beowulf, then sit behind boss and hold shield.. is that the idea

[latent moon]

That doesn't work

[mint ember]

L

[latent moon]

You cant get beams on Beowulf

[mint ember]

noooooo

ok well ig anyshield works

[formal citrus]

Also, I guess higher heat is constantly hypersprinting

[latent moon]

I mean the strat works with like yeah any shield

[formal citrus]

So you already can t be stunned.

[latent moon]

Hyper sprint or extra dashes ideally

[formal citrus]

And even then crystal clarity is way easier to set up

[latent moon]

Also that

[formal citrus]

Do high heat give up hyper delivery?

[mint ember]

ok how about worst legendary

[formal citrus]

Oh, or

[latent moon]

Extra dashes is nice for more iframes

[formal citrus]

Conditionally huge catch

[latent moon]

You kinda just take what you get most of the time tbh

[mint ember]

fair enough

forgor that existed

[latent moon]

Saving rerolls for the purging well is important

[formal citrus]

Speed runners probably don't like unhealthy fixation.

[latent moon]

Speedrunners only go for splitting bolt lmao

Occasionally fully loaded

[rare flume]

speedrunners no

[latent moon]

Hermes legendary occasionally

[formal citrus]

Bad news not leg recall

I assume

[latent moon]

Recall is nice for Hera

[mint coral]

2nd wave is my choice

[formal citrus]

But even then they'd want hyper delivery first

[latent moon]

Yeah

[formal citrus]

When going for speed?

[latent moon]

I mean you don't need Rd to go fast in all fairness

[formal citrus]

Or any sort of high heat? Figured grabbing stones is no problem once you're food enough

[rare flume]

i honestly have no idea how one can do 20 minutes with ANY build

[latent moon]

If you get bad Hermes you can work with it

Especially on Hera

[latent moon]

It's still nice regardless

If all the choices suck and you have recall offered you might as well

Quick reload is still good on Hera if the other options suck

[latent moon]

A lot of practice

[formal citrus]

True. I just assume they re only above special and attack speed for speedruns

[latent moon]

I mean there's only 3 good Hermes boons lmao

3.5 if you count bad news

[mint coral]

I like quick reload hera cuz I can't wall bug dad to save my life

[formal citrus]

Walk speed don't help speed runs?

[latent moon]

It's like

Super marginal

Yeah it's nice but also you have dashes

[formal citrus]

Yeah, I don't really attempt that. Maybe that's why I can't subten hera

[rare flume]

ok ill do sword heat 7 now or die trying

[latent moon]

If you at least try to half ass it you'll probably get it a few times so you might as well lmao

Speaking from experience btw

[mint coral]

as most things, wall bug isn't needed for sub 10

[latent moon]

I'm ass with Hera and I just bs wall bugging whenever I can

Also that too

[mint coral]

just skip all the biomes

[latent moon]

So true bestie

[mint coral]

now that deranger said it, hypnos emote would fit so well on these types of messages

bouldy doesn't hit the same

[rare flume]

what do i choose with nemesis

zeus or poseidon

[royal widget]

deadly reversal

oh

try to get zeus call/cast

[rare flume]

yeah i know about call

wait

cast?

why

[mint coral]

solid AoE, can be nice dmg with more zeus stuff

[royal widget]

because with Nem your special/atk is being used by a different god
and it's good damage

[rare flume]

but i only use cast because of abyssal soul or boiling blood, meaning i dont use it if i already have it lofged in enemy

[mint coral]

tidal dash is always a good choice too

[royal widget]

on nem though?

[mint coral]

cast more then

[latent moon]

Yeah

[mint coral]

yeah

[latent moon]

It's tidal dash

Why not

[royal widget]

it's melee, wouldn't it ruin grouping?

[latent moon]

It won't if they're dead

[royal widget]

mmm

[rare flume]

i got epic cast for zeus

[royal widget]

tidal dash 💪

[rare flume]

but im reluctant to take it

[royal widget]

take and hunt for jolted

[rare flume]

i use it only for bosses

[royal widget]

...

[latent moon]

Zeus cast isn't that important on nem

[rare flume]

i took the cast

also i have cast under "Q"

[royal widget]

yo same

[formal citrus]

I do half ass it and sometimes get it. Though controller probably makes it harder with more auto target.

[rare flume]

im trying to use cast in every battle now, at least at the start

[formal citrus]

I assumed you had to do it consistently.

[formal citrus]

Zeus cast will look a lot more impressive without damage control. Though it is alright for clearing that too ig.

[formal citrus]

Right?

[rare flume]

i got epic jolted

[royal widget]

that's pretty epic

[rare flume]

ok im out of tart

[formal citrus]

In tart, that's not bad

[rare flume]

oh great, i had first time barge with huge void stone

and poisedon gave me choice between ocean bounty and sunken treasure

[formal citrus]

Ap being ap

Any rerolls?

Do you still need darkness for mirror things?

[rare flume]

i realized i messed up a bit

i took poseidon shell because i forgot i have athena dash so no tidal dash for me

[rare flume]

no

[latent moon]

No

[rare flume]

cursed slash or double edge

[uneven cloak]

At the ver least

[hexed smelt]

@unborn furnace Professional conduct means I can't actually tell you what my first response to that question was. However, what I can tell you is to please abide by the rules of the server, which can be found in #readme-first .

[unborn furnace]

oke

[unborn furnace]

cursed slash

ez choice

[stone rune]

double edge

literally the best sword hammer

bar none

[rare flume]

ok i will take double edge

[stone rune]

basically

on sword your rotation is dash strike x2 into special

[formal citrus]

This is with nemesis too, right?

[hexed smelt]

Anyway, I'm going to clear up that little bit of the chat; please don't be alarmed if you see messages suddenly disappear :)

[stone rune]

or you can start with special and then do the dash strikes

but yeah

it's just 2 dash strikes and special

comes out fast and has high dps

esp with dedge

[rare flume]

yes im doing nemesis

[formal citrus]

Nemesis with double edge would be great if I could aim it better

It's the dream

Close to doubles tour damage outside of like ME builds

[stone rune]

it over doubles

[formal citrus]

If I understand it correctly

[stone rune]

special isnt really much of a damage dealer past tart and it also has the 20% bonus

[rare flume]

i am going to fight hades

wait

brainfart

charon

[stone rune]

gg

[rare flume]

ok i did it

my new strategy always pay

which is

dont try to avoid his moves

just go ballistics on him

[formal citrus]

Dash through his moves?

[rare flume]

full aggro

[formal citrus]

That is the way the pros play

[stone rune]

well

you can't really do that on early charon fights

because he chunks like 50 damage per hit and you have like... 50 health

if you want you can watch loyalty card speedruns to see how they work

it's a mildly popular category extension

[rare flume]

i only check if he has bag in elysium, sometimes in asphodel

[stone rune]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu4oY0blj98&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedrun.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title

[rare flume]

no, im trying to fill up entry for loyalty card for codex

if im not mistaken and i need just 1 more codex entry, with this defeat i need only to visit him 4 more times

[stone rune]

it's also the only category where people use than companion

[uneven cloak]

What do high heat or speedrunners use? Meg?

[stone rune]

yea

[uneven cloak]

Is it because Mort windup is too slow and bosses can move out of it sooner or later?

[stone rune]

well

in bosses sort of

the bigger reason is that the more common use of meg is in minibosses

you meg 4 minibosses and only 2 bosses

[rare flume]

i dont know why people use meg, imo its the worst outside skelly

[stone rune]

???

quite literally the strongest one

[uneven cloak]

Imagine thinking Bouldy 1000 is better than Meg 2500

Unless you want the heals

And darkness and coin

[rare flume]

well maybe expect bouldy too

but im using ant now

[stone rune]

so you think antos or than or dusa are better than meg?

[uneven cloak]

And Dusa's 70 dmg attack support better than Meg too?

[rare flume]

what about petrify lol

[stone rune]

pretty useless

[uneven cloak]

Heh relying on petrify

[rare flume]

ok maybe except dusa too, but than and antos definetely better

[stone rune]

not really

because they take longer to drop

and you can't hit all 4 witches with them

or both bombers

or satyr

[rare flume]

but antos is guaranteed hit

[stone rune]

or bother

antos is less damage

[uneven cloak]

Oh so thats the purpose

You want the lineup damage

[stone rune]

yea like in witches

[uneven cloak]

Yeah witches circle is annoying

[stone rune]

or in bombers

like how are antos or than better

[uneven cloak]

Witch circle is why i consider Athena spec or dash sometimes

[stone rune]

easier to just kill them

[uneven cloak]

Its not easy damaging them if they keep spraying unless your attack is a huge circle splash that kills the orbs

Ala sword special

[hexed smelt]

maybe they want to

[uneven cloak]

Beo helps too

[stone rune]

well it's also just relatively definitively the best companion

quick drop time, high damage, long area with well defined setups for each miniboss

there are niches for some others in high heat for something or other that im not exactly sure about

[uneven cloak]

Mort is a bit risky too for some bosses or minibosses

[stone rune]

but most runs still just have meg

well it's just too slow

he takes a quadrillion years to drop

[formal citrus]

I didn't want to watch the ten minute vid on how to aim it, but now that I know it's just "perpendicular to the direciton you're facing" I manage

[stone rune]

it's just the collection of setups

since there are 6 well defined places to use it and 1 nebulous one

[formal citrus]

I ain't memorizing that stuff yet

[rare flume]

im sorry guys, i understand you are veterans and im a noob

[stone rune]

we all asked questions

[rare flume]

ok maybe not a complete noob but intermediate at best

[stone rune]

dont worry about it

[rare flume]

anyway i reached styx

[stone rune]

i remember back when i was trying to make my first 32 pact

[last veldt]

Draw a line from you to the nearest enemy and make a T shake their. It goes across the top.

[stone rune]

i was gonna use hestia and was like "whats wrong with just taking damage control and pretend im playing eris for the first part of a room"

[formal citrus]

lol, no need to apologize or anything, we all like discussing the game. You're just going to get pushback when you state something is the best and others disagree lol

[stone rune]

or when you mention chiron

i hate that thing

[formal citrus]

I think this is why my first 32 had DC 2

[last veldt]

Chiron is great early on.

[formal citrus]

and TD 0

[stone rune]

not really

cause it requires max level to do its damage

and its damage is poor

[formal citrus]

Chiron is super neat the first time you use it. Feels revoluationary

[stone rune]

so you have to dump 15 or 16 blood into it

for something significantly worse than hera

[last veldt]

That's why you stack Dio or Arty on it

[formal citrus]

3 blood, max hangover, feel awesome and run away

[last veldt]

Yes it's best higher levelled, but that wasn't a criteria.

[stone rune]

the main issue i have with chiron is that hera is quite literally right there

[twin thistle]

chiron is just easy to use just mark and spam special to hit stuff for you

[formal citrus]

^

[mint coral]

is easy to see why Chiron is so liked at first

[twin thistle]

well hera needs you to focus poms and you to pick up casts

[last veldt]

I mean obviously it's subjective so I ain't arguing you're "wrong" in some sense, but Chiron was my go to until I found Hestia.

[formal citrus]

Hera was the first one I really latched on to

[stone rune]

i think the main reason is that you can just stick anything on the special

and itll be about as good as anything else

[formal citrus]

And I got upset when I was better with anything else lol. Fortunately Hera is what I'm best at for heat now it seems.

Is it possible to get multiple bolts on a Chiron special?

2? 3?

[mint coral]

me slapping zeus special on bow special for the first time

[twin thistle]

if you angle it funny you can get 3 ig

[rare flume]

great, remind me to never use middle management ever again

[stone rune]

why

[mint coral]

biggest dissapoint I had in my life

[stone rune]

nearly free heat

[last veldt]

Yeah

[formal citrus]

fun heat

But like everything, the first time is going to be rough

[rare flume]

just lost 2 death defiances to a rat and a walking jar

[stone rune]

oh well if it's tony it's tony

tony sucks mm or not

[twin thistle]

styx moment

[last veldt]

Middle Management takes some learning, but Barge of Death is faster most of the time.

[stone rune]

dont blame mm for tony

[mint coral]

Tony isn't affected by MM right?

[stone rune]

i havent seen tony in 20 years

[last veldt]

Yeah, you get an armoured jar.

Oh hang on, you mean tiny vermin

No, not affected.

I thought you meant the big rat with the traps

[mint coral]

Big rat is Anthony

[stone rune]

no

anthony is satyr

isnt he

[mint coral]

huh?

why would the satyr be Anthony

[stone rune]

oh its big rat

i always thought anthony was satyr

i guess its cause people dont like anthony and i never had problems with big rat

beo privilege

i always had trouble megging satyr so i was just trying to instakill armor and hp

[last veldt]

The big jar is a right sod on Hell Mode. If you're close in it can hit you 5x nearly instantly.

[twin thistle]

i totally havent had that happen to me

[last veldt]

Personal liability is rough

[formal citrus]

Lol I wish to learn the miniboss nickname s these are great

[stone rune]

theres only 2 lol

tony and anthony

at least that i know of

[formal citrus]

Excellent

[stone rune]

then bombers and witches

most other names make sense

[last veldt]

I always call bombers the chuckle brothers.

[stone rune]

what pact should i do for gilga 40

[mint coral]

RI4 em4 fo2 hl5 lc4 rest at your choice

[stone rune]

gg

[rare flume]

ok i did it

posting in victory channel

[stone rune]

ok i have it

hl5 lc4 cf2 js3 em3 bp2 mm uc hs dc2 ap1 td3

surely this will work

im on dds and hc

lol

[mint coral]

winnable

[stone rune]

im gonna get my beo run of the day in first

[mint coral]

get that sub 1

[stone rune]

gg

ez

i did it blindfolded

sub12 seconds rta

[mint coral]

and your cat destroyed the video right

[stone rune]

yea i have the administrative chamber though

spaghetti plate special doing 20 thousand calculations per nanosecond to find out the longest possible path that misses every enemy

[rare flume]

i just bought hercules statue

damn that thing is BEEEEG

[uneven cloak]

Small Vermin

Is a goddamn melee gate

How do you even fist or sword that rat boss?

Dash strike and peace out?

[stone rune]

dont get it

[last veldt]

Tony with hidden sword is very doable. And with fists I tend to run Poseidon Talos, so razor shoals are usually on. Tiny rat hardly ever stops moving so razor shoals are great.

[spark vapor]

unreal i was trying to time out on the tight deadline thing bc i wanted to see what happened and if id get special dialogue and with less than a second left alecto magically died so i didnt time out im so

[last veldt]

How did she die? Trap?

I don't think there's special dialogue btw. I've finished boss rooms with zero on the clock many times and been very close many times. Never recall seeing anything unique pop up.

I once went into heroes with zero on the clock and made it out (just).

[spark vapor]

Idk if she died to a trap or the dash damage hitbox is just bigger than i thought bc i had athenas but I was like actively avoiding alecto she wasnt even on my screen

[uneven cloak]

Theres no dialogue. Its just like hitting the border in a battle royale

Also Alecto has the hilarity to run to spike traps

[royal warren]

Just escaped for 10th time and got "end credits", still no Nyx conversation to unlock green talents in Mirror. Something's weird.

Maybe it's an issue of dialogue priorities, like maybe I was progressing too quickly, triggering higher-priority plot dialogues, and not dying enough. But there was some dying so she should have had opportunities to trigger the talents dialogue.

[mint coral]

as you said, prob too much main story dialogue queued up

I don't remember if you need a minimum of darkness put into the mirror either

[royal warren]

I think this is the only game I've played where failing and dying more is actually preferable for dialogue reasons

[mint coral]

considering how early it can unlock that shouldn't be the issue tho

[uneven cloak]

You managed to do 10 clears without proccing alt mirror skill dialogue

Damn

[twin thistle]

last time i made a new save i think it took like 20 clears for alt talents

[mint coral]

I remember getting the "Achilles, I just escaped for the first time and blah blah" after the credits lol

[uneven cloak]

Considering how hard it is to actually win on your first run, i prefer dying early too and just get as much darkness and blood

Dude

I have cleared so many times

And only now is dad talking about my exploits in Ely

[royal warren]

In the previous save profile, I died a lot more and procced lots more dialogues, which was apparently vastly preferable

[uneven cloak]

Nah its fine

[royal warren]

It's just harder to fail and die when you already know the game

[uneven cloak]

Supergiant designed the dialogue on casual performance anyway

[royal warren]

Now I'm wondering how much more I missed

[uneven cloak]

Its alright

Fandom exists

[mint coral]

I appreciate how the dialogue system works but I do hope there's a bit of a glow up on that regard lol

[uneven cloak]

What truly matters cannot be skipped

[twin thistle]

well its prob mostly backlogged

[uneven cloak]

Backlog is main case

Since its mostly 1 dialogue per run

[mint coral]

or at least that favors don't require an entirely different character that refuses to appear

looking at you hypnos favor

[uneven cloak]

He has one? I dont remember seeing Fates mission about that ever

Or is it about forging bonds?

[mint coral]

bonds yeah

his favor requires multiple conversations with Than about Hypnos job efficiency

[uneven cloak]

Oh ive been getting that a bit frequently

Requires Than story chain to not happen or already done

Cause he'd be too busy talking to you

[mint coral]

yeah that's the issue lol

and even if you are already done with that quest, getting him to appear or want to talk is

[rare flume]

some noob dying

[stone rune]

Legacy literally does not work

5 screens with keepsake bonus

[stone rune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1133995918832709642/image.png

it's joever

im so bad at this game dude

4 hours no sub6

had like 5 30x aspho exits that got 2 min elys

i have forgotten what damage is like

[rare flume]

i always break all perma destructible expolosive traps in asphodel and tartarus in barge of death and trial of gods before it begins

[royal widget]

lmao

just time them as the enemies spawn

[rare flume]

sometimes i do this but with eggs in elysium

[royal widget]

i must say i don't know how to use them effectively

i rarely take stygian shard

[twin thistle]

ngl even without stygian explodies do pretty good damage

[royal widget]

500 is a big number

[twin thistle]

nice for getting rid of armor

[rare flume]

im in elysium

[stone rune]

FINALLY

GOD

[rare flume]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

i finally got a fishing point in chaos and its projelly (i already have all entries for it and mati)

ok styx now

[uneven cloak]

Here I am trying to not be good in catching fish just to get a Mati

Trying to actually suck....sucks

[uneven cloak]

ME Tart let's go!

[whole comet]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1882907099
Fresh File cleared with... no atk/spec boons lol

[sour fog]

no ME and no athena lego, wow

[whole comet]

u can't get merciful end without atk/special boon

[sour fog]

right, but I mean doing fresh file without either of those

[uneven cloak]

Goddamn impressive

First, ME on tart

now Hunting Blades on tart.

I'm getting too much luck it's scary

[soft blade]

||Does archilles return after the "divided by death" prophecy or do i need to do runs until elysium to meet him at patroclus place to finish his last 3 hearts?||

[ionic hemlock]

|| Pretty sure he does ||

[soft blade]

thanks!

[sharp stone]

What if Zagreus was in fortnite

[rose roost]

when do you get the victory screen themes, i completed all the work orders and it still isn't showing up ;-;

i'm missing 2 sheet music could be that

welp time to go fight em4 hades

[formal citrus]

The fun run

[tepid light]

If you ask that again I will have to seriously consider throwing you into tartarus

[sharp stone]

Have you even the authority, shade?

[tepid light]

Even the most humble of souls has authority over a wretch like you

[sharp stone]

Dang at this point, we may as well get our own dialogue boxes

[tepid light]

I'd be happy to write dialogue for Hades characters

They should hire me to write stuff for Hades 2

Nudge nudge wink wink

[sour fog]

there was one guy on this server that kept mentioning fortnite

pretty sure he got banned

[tepid light]

Deserved tbh

[sharp stone]

Oops guess I'll keep that to myself

[sour fog]

I don't think it was related

but you never know

[tepid light]

The only way to confirm that theory is to constantly ping the Supergiants with messages just saying "fortnite"

If they ban you, then the theory is true

[rose roost]

is RD useful for bewoulf+charged shot?

i have greater haste and hyper sprint

wondering if i should buy hermes for RD

[mint coral]

Worth a shot

[winged valve]

I really wish that the game would allow more than one piece of dialogue per run in some cases

I've been waiting to get my dialogue to unlock Arthur from Nyx for a good few runs now, and I guess higher priority dialogue keeps coming up

[rose roost]

got an epic RD...

i don't even have plume equipped lol

[mint coral]

Hyper sprint is already +100% dmg so lol

Just remember to dash before your cast hits

[winged valve]

one person said that the dialogue can queue up and it took 20 runs for Nyx to reveal arthur 😦

[tepid light]

Yep

[winged valve]

a bit lame if I'm being totally honest

[tepid light]

I usually find it best to just not 'expect' the dialogue and just keep idly playing and doing runs until it shows up

[winged valve]

that's fair if you plan to play the game for a very very very long time. I'm still enjoying the game, don't get me wrong, but I don't think I'll still be playing in e.g. two months, maybe not even one

[tepid light]

I mean speaking as someone who tends to blaze through games, is it possible you're underestimating how much the game might keep you busy

Even if you don't plan on doing high heat/speedrun stuff, there's a lot to do in the game

A lot to unlock and a lot of weapons/builds to try out

[winged valve]

well, sure, I can't deny it's possible. It's also possible I'm not. I think the unlocks are cool and I 'm fine with it taking a bit

but to have it randomly take 20 runs extra past when you meet the requirements I'm just not a fan of.

i guess Arthur might be one of the rougher ones insofar as Nyx probably has a lot of dialogue

[tepid light]

Yeah, was about to say; given how many sidequests Nyx is involved in, there's a lot she might say before Arthur pops up

I'd also say that the wait for certain dialogues isn't actually that much of a drag in practice, so long as you're not like spending every moment waiting for it

[winged valve]

I think with arthur it's a bit more annoying because I don't love the other sword aspects, and I try to use the dark thirst weapon

And I know arthur is a totally different moveset, so I'm looking forward to it a lot

[mint coral]

Play pos sword whenever you don't wanna play sword

[winged valve]

ah well, last time I unlocked something right after I complained so hopefully that still works 😛

[tepid light]

Arthur's def very fun imo, and satisfying to boot

[winged valve]

yeah I mostly play pos right now

[mint coral]

You could also just end up on a dash only run/smair added in

[tepid light]

But yeah in general, obviously if the game at some point is just not interesting to you anymore, then there's nothing that can be done about that

But I'm sure you're not looking for reasons to stop playing, per se

[winged valve]

Yeah, for sure no. It's just the aspects, for me personally are a big thing that extends my interest as it were.

Having more aspects that I actually like to play with, will help keep the game fresh longer.

[tepid light]

Oh I def get you there

Even among the aspects I generally don't like as much, it's quite fun to mess around with them and see what I can pull off

[winged valve]

yeah, I tried to do a crit build with nemesis

didn't go very well but at least it was fresh

[tepid light]

I recall messing around with 'shotgun' builds on Chaos Shield

Getting something like Demeter or Dionysus special

And just hitting enemies with a bunch of stacks at once from point-blank range

[winged valve]

random question; does hunter's mark get removed once you crit

the tooltip for it lists a pretty substantial duration but in game I usually see it come off way earlier

[tepid light]

"Her signature Status Curse is Marked, which increases the chance of dealing a critical hit to the afflicted enemy, consuming the Curse and reapplying it to a nearby target. This essentially allows you to snowball critical hits in a crowd. This increase in chance will stack with her boons that offer Critical hit chance."

So yes and no, basically

[winged valve]

ah, okay

that's from the wiki I guess, I didn't remember the tooltip saying "consuming" but maybe I just missed it

[tepid light]

It's from the wiki, yeah

[winged valve]

so against bosses (other than heroes) this doesn't really help right

[tepid light]

Not as much, no

But it's decent for rooms

[winged valve]

I've tried messing around with athena/artemis combos a bit, to get the crit chance way up. It's not bad, I should try to find better aspect setups for it

I did the Dio/Artemis duo on Rama

[tepid light]

Athena/Artemis is definitely pretty fun, lets you crit all over the place

Especially if you have Athena dash, which you definitely should

[winged valve]

Rama is kind of a monster but definitely trickier to play well, at least for me, compared to Hera

[tepid light]

That's basically how it is with all the hidden aspects

Big hits, but generally slower/more clunky

[winged valve]

beo honestly just kind of seems broken

I mean yeah, you're charging up a shield charge but even if you do it for a bit longer you're blocking

[tepid light]

It is

[rotund galleon]

somebody give me a starter I haven't played in some time

[tepid light]

Starting trinket, you mean?

[rotund galleon]

I mean a starter weapon +keepsake

[winged valve]

Rama/Dio and Hestia/Aphro were my last two runs

[tepid light]

Chiron bow, Pierced Butterfly

[rotund galleon]

hm

hmmm

aight

[tepid light]

glhf

[rotund galleon]

single keepsake run it is

[tepid light]

Yeah Beo definitely is very powerful, the increased damage taken is a non-factor compared to the fact that it is a shield (meaning you can block everything) and that it does absolutely ludicrous amounts of damage

[rotund galleon]

oh my hammer start

ah crap no special buff

[winged valve]

yeah, should be good times

when I was reading about beo I didn't even realize that beo also causes all casts to not lodge

[tepid light]

Just don't do what I did one time and get Curse of Drowning on Beo

Turned my build from amazing to terrible in an instant

[winged valve]

like, "btw we'll also just solve this issue with casts completely for you and not even mention it in the weapon description"

With hera you max out all the blood to just get your casts to drop in 5 seconds, and beo just drops them all instantly

[tepid light]

Yeah Beo converts all casts to 'flares,' which make them do aoe damage and not lodge

[winged valve]

yeah I've already been wrecked once by curse of drowning

hot garbage

[tepid light]

Curse of Drowning is the boon you get if you haven't been using your casts

[winged valve]

in general I've had boons/hammers kind of ruin builds for me a few times now

because I didn't 100% understand what they did

[tepid light]

Learning process

[winged valve]

yeah

[mint coral]

Beo's downside is so funny

[winged valve]

it's crazy how much you'd need to keep in your head to make good choices without constantly pausing and looking something up

[mint coral]

You have guan yu that halves your hp for a really bad hp recover

Then beo has a nuke and the only downside is +10% dmg taken

Not even a point of HL

[winged valve]

Devs: well, should this weapon be able to insta-load casts for bursts, make stones drop instantly, block almost any attack in the game, have an invulnerable charging move, or have a good ranged attack?

beo: yes

devs: ok fine we'll also throw in the mirage bug have fun gg

[tepid light]

Day 1,364 of really wanting to like Guan Yu but just being too sad at its massive downsides

[mint coral]

And maim (a 25% buff that can be matched with high confidence or fam favs)
Requires you to apply the debuff to an enemy one at a time and it also gives them 2.5 lvls of HL

[tepid light]

I just constantly wonder why they made Guan Yu the polar opposite of Arthur in terms of stat changes

[winged valve]

Guan Yu seems to be the least liked weapon in the game outside of a couple of Zag aspects

[mint coral]

Life steal can be somewhat good or easy to unserstand for most players (see all the people that live for cursed slash)

*understand

[tepid light]

Oh there's actually a massive amount of people who love Guan Yu and consider it the safest weapon in the game

[winged valve]

the problem is there's a lot of things in this game that operate based on % life

[mint coral]

I guess sgg think it really needs a massive downside?

[winged valve]

the funny thing is that the fists actually get a life drain hammer with no downside

[mint coral]

But also that the spin is so clunky to use

[tepid light]

I'd believe that if it wasn't for the fact that no one really uses the lifesteal on Guan Yu because you'd just be asking to get punched

[rotund galleon]

wait are there any good Ares Dio combos?

[winged valve]

their duo is pretty good

[mint coral]

Hangover runs yeah

[rotund galleon]

aight I can go for Ares attack I guess

[winged valve]

because it's basically a straight up 50% damage buff to dio's dot

[rotund galleon]

HMMMMM

Tartarus Charon money

HMMMM

[winged valve]

I guess if you're doing that, could also do aphrodite, so you can have more stacks

[mint coral]

Do it

Borrow the bag 🔫

[strong ridge]

if not now when

[rotund galleon]

bag status

borrowed

[tepid light]

ggwp

[mint coral]

Have fun

Wait is this still chiron + butterfly

[tepid light]

The record scratch when you take the bag of money always gets me

[tepid light]

I assume so

[strong ridge]

not no more

[rotund galleon]

got him

[tepid light]

Wow that was quick

[rotund galleon]

I had Dio special

[winged valve]

are there any specific tips for using rama attack other than obviously dash striking? I had an awesome first run with Rama but I think I had issues with being greedy

going for the powershot on the main attack

and ultimately died to dad

[tepid light]

It's basically just dash striking

[rotund galleon]

yes play Guile's theme while playing

[winged valve]

heh

[tepid light]

Standing still and charging rama attack is a bad idea for obvious reasons

[winged valve]

sure, I dash strike

it's just still a bit too slow

I guess it's just a combination of being willing to release earlier and take less damage

[tepid light]

Yes, but if you dash strike, the damage makes up for it

[winged valve]

and picking better spots to fire

when you use the rama special on something with zeus, do you actually get 3 lightning bolts?

I've seen this claimed online, but in game it seemed like I was only getting one

I know the lightning bolts have an internal timer

[tepid light]

Yeah was about to mention this

I think the Rama special arrows hit too quickly together, so the internal timer still happens

Not certain though

[winged valve]

but pretty reputable places still recommend zeus special

e.g. the build guide that is stickied on this server

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide#aspect-of-rama-bow

[tepid light]

I mean even with the internal timer, zeus special on rama or chiron or what have you is still quite good

It's just obviously not as hilariously powerful as one might expect it to be

[winged valve]

right

I went Dio because with Dio you know you're getting the full damage, but obviously everything has trade-offs

[twin thistle]

zeus special on rama gets rids of dc hearts faster, can spread jolted, and can be a prereq for nice duos

so its pretty nice

[winged valve]

gotcha

maybe I'll try that

[tepid light]

Have you tried Zeus attack with fists yet

[winged valve]

i have, a few times

pretty good

[tepid light]

It's one of the most entertaining things in my opinion

Not necessarily optimal

But it's very satisfying

[winged valve]

zeus shield with zeus special was my first clear

So I've done a fair amount of zeus silliness

[tepid light]

The King of Gods approves

[winged valve]

Zeus is kind of a funny god because the self synergy there is on another level

[tepid light]

And Zeus shield itself is very versatile

[winged valve]

problem is that statistically that's not a very good bet

[stiff obsidian]

why?

[tepid light]

It makes good use of a lot of specials

[tepid light]

I'm just saying that as a disclaimer

[winged valve]

yeah. So I tried to do zeus shield with athena special, and hades on attack, for their duo

but unfortunately didn't hit it

[tepid light]

Because I'm remarking on things based on personal fun, not optimization

[winged valve]

will have to try that again

[tepid light]

Zeus shield with Poseidon special is fun times

[winged valve]

putting athena special on zeus shield is just kind of funny because you have so much special

sorry

so much defense

you can block and you have a giant damaging/deflecting orb

Once the shield is levelled up the damage will be respectable too

athena gives pretty big %'s

[tepid light]

There's also Demeter special

Decent %'s, and you just have a big spinning orb that will slow anyone it touches to a crawl

[winged valve]

have very mixed feelings about demeter so far

[rotund galleon]

with Demeter you can kill Asterius miniboss

[winged valve]

for demeter I was thinking to try her on chiron once I get that levelled up

because with the +3 special hammer, you can get 10+ shots

[tepid light]

Demeter is interesting because she has both % damage and a stacking debuff

[winged valve]

which means you can instantly trigger a frost explosion

yeah, the thing is that the debuff doesn't feel that strong to me. Slowing is good but even maximum slowness, while definitely noticeable, isn't what I'd call a crawl.

i probably just need to play with it more

at any rate though with a cap of 10 applications, you want a lot of hits, which is why I was thinking chiron

[mint coral]

Killing freeze and snow burst my beloveds

[tepid light]

It's a lot more noticeable when you're up against heat-boosted enemies

[winged valve]

yeah I bet

and once you're more skillful

[tepid light]

It helps a lot against enemies that would otherwise just dash across the screen and stab you

And especially against Bull and Dad

[winged valve]

most of my damage right now is just from dumb mistakes anyway so making them a little slower isn't that critical

I honestly find bull pretty easy, not sure why. Bull is just annoying when spears are also being thrown in my head.

I still suck pretty bad at dad though. They did quite a good job balancing I think.

[tepid light]

If it makes you feel better, my very first win was me hiding behind my shield and attacking dad once every 10 min

It was a long and not all that satisfying of a fight

It took a long while for me to beat him on something that wasn't shield

[mint coral]

At some point you'll get into the
Get good at dad>tries FO>suck at dad again

[winged valve]

it didn't take me that long, but it's still pretty inconsistent. Like, he was almost dead and died to him with rama. I went into the fight completely stacked, and just got super sloppy in phase 2

[mint coral]

I should pkay again at some point but I know for sure I won't remember FO timings at all

[tepid light]

Alternatively, get good at dad > try EM4 > suck at dad again

[winged valve]

yeah, EM4 vs dad with a melee weapon is supposed to be horrible

[mint coral]

Super dad is built different

[tepid light]

Honestly though as hard as EM Dad is, he's so awesome that I couldn't get mad even after he slaughtered me

[rotund galleon]

waaaait does PAtroclus give you DD's if you recovered DD's from other sources like Athena?

and have 3

[winged valve]

I think achilles beyblade/beams were my easiest dad kills so far

by far

[mint coral]

No

[rotund galleon]

thank

[mint coral]

He only recovers empty slots

[mint coral]

Cast builds moment

[winged valve]

hah yeah

the problem is that especially the beams build seems like such a high roll build

last time I tried beams I didn't get the duo