Unfun
#h1-discussion
stone rune
it is fun
charred veldt
I recently finished a run with it and out of the legendary weapon aspects it's my least favourite (personally, I have a somewhat offensive playstyle and the health deduction is a bit difficult to mange with it)
kerberos keepsake helps in the beginning until you got a couple of hearts
switch it out until you reach a 100 base health tho, from this point out it should be manageable
guan yu depends on the "right" boons (athena combinations) like barely any other weapon aspect imo
poseidon is good too, to push enemies away so you have time to charge the attack
(But like, everyone has a different way of playing, this is just what works for me)
tepid plover
i wanna point out my comment had nothing to do with it being good or bad, simply not fun to use regardless of effectiveness
humble pulsar
Guan Yu is my favorite spear aspect (though I struggle to run it at high levels of heat)
I know that generally it's considered pretty good for high heat it's just my preferred pact setup isn't great for it.
oak lily
Wait what
gray apex
what
humble pulsar
The 4th aspect can be unlocked later 😉
I won't spoil too much on how it happens, but it's definitely on the Hades wiki if you want to know how to get it. It's a bit semi random though.
Achilles is the spear I've gotten 32 heat runs on though, definitely the easiest to pickup and win with, at least for me.
Need to re-record my spear 32 run, I had a good one but it has background audio and I cry 😦
noble merlin
Guan Yu is definitely the easiest and safest (maybe of all aspects) but yeah it starts to crumble if you're at higher heats and can't handle FO or some of the later fights without dying. It's honestly the only Spear aspect I can stomach playing.
hollow violet
Achilles has grown on me. When playing Guan Yu, I get Dio first and try for Premium Vintage.
fleet lance
i wouldnt say guan yu is the safest especially against the bosses
stone rune
i mean it has mega range
latent moon
otherwise it's kinda eh
strong ridge
guano is a weird bow
stone rune
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1111348908317216868/image.png what the hell is legacy for
latent moon
why are you playing passion beo lmao
stone rune
fun
latent moon
fair enough
stone rune
also got 522 so cant be that bad
stone rune
139 exit with no juice lmfao
lvl3 cast was instaphasing
idk who to take
oh pos
ix from twist we winning
oh right i have no hammer
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1111350375778369566/image.png note the lack of hammer
sour fog
that resolution is killing me
untold crown
re: guan yu chat you need the quick spin hammer if you're gonna try using the spin attack at all
but i just got my first sub12 without even trying on it, though that was with ice wine
stone rune
the solution: don't use the spin attack
stone rune
achilles build lmao
untold crown
it was beautiful
i don't like playing achilles for the same reason a lot of people don't like guan yu. the hidden aspects are so much better for general use that i don't mess with the others unless it's a meta thing like eris.
stone rune
whar
i mean 2 of the hidden aspects are trash
1 is good but 2 of the other aspects of the weapon are better
2 are cracked
and 1 is fine
but i definitely wouldnt say the hidden aspects are better for general use
untold crown
i should practice with achilles, i've gotten so many op cast builds lately that could have been more op
ok they're better for my general use i guess
latent moon
i don't like playing achilles for the same reason a lot of people don't like gua...
I mean Achilles is meta
For speed at least, I don't know how well it holds up in high heat
stone rune
achilles has highest heat
on sheet at least
60
watched that vod it was crazy
next is GY 58
because cant take dc
and nobody wants to reset for +dashes
hades is 57
zagspear 56
strong ridge
zag 64
latent moon
achilles has highest heat
I mean yeah but is it a meta pick for high heat in general
stone rune
oh no its not safe
latent moon
Yeah that's what I mean lmao
stone rune
fun though
gray apex
It depends on how high but I'd generally take gy over it
stone rune
idek
strong ridge
do u now
tepid plover
Guan Yu is definitely the easiest and safest (maybe of all aspects) but yeah it ...
The reduced hp alone makes it not safe
tepid plover
latent moon
i mean unironically kinda true, esp considering guan yu is used in hitless runs lmao
granted i'm pretty sure it's only good because of charged skewer tho
strong dune
hardy spear
mm idk id go for story room
they only show up once per biome but hammers can always come up again
charred veldt
valid
if i needed health I might've gone for sisyphos too but at the time I was good on that regard
also i just love the hammer upgrades so much XD
there is a single one that never wants to spawn for me, on the bow lol
latent moon
there is *a single one* that never wants to spawn for me, on the bow lol
Might be incompatible with the aspect
stone rune
rama cant get flurry
latent moon
Well they were referring to Chiron
stone rune
only non rama incompatible is charged yeah
rama misses out on basically every special hammer
sharp stone
if you had to assign or create a new mountain dew flavor based off a hades character, who is which
sharp stone
i feel like i'd have to create an entirely original flavor for Eurydice
untold crown
livewire zeus, baja blast poseidon, code red hades, white out demeter, I guess zag/mel can be the og
they used to do a halloween flavor called pitch black, obviously nyx for that one
latent moon
@humble pulsar what was prenerf hunting blades? ive never heard anyone talk about that lmao
humble pulsar
A long time ago I believe the duration was 4 seconds and in general I remember the rifts being faster.
latent moon
oh interesting
humble pulsar
Blade Rifts also used to do half the damage but in twice the increments (i dont think that really made it better or worse unless there are small synergies im forgetting about, maybe Support Fire but I think Support Fire has a cap on how fast it can fire)
latent moon
i mean they're still strong lmao
humble pulsar
Oh ofc absolutely
latent moon
works great on eris funny enough
humble pulsar
Hunting Blades is still super good, used it for my spear 32 clear
latent moon
lightning strike -> artemis special -> ares cast -> hunting blades
sharp stone
livewire zeus, baja blast poseidon, code red hades, white out demeter, I guess z...
baja blast poseidon fits so well like oh my goodness
humble pulsar
I was going for a Sea Storm build on Rail just to try its viability at 32 and I realized that I cannot survive Tartarus without Lightning Strike
humble pulsar
Sea Storm is a build I really like playing the Chiron bow with, but I haven't found anything else that's super great with it
humble pulsar
true actually, not a big lucifer user but it would probably work very well there with the ramping damage
latent moon
but yeah sea storm isn't exactly a build path, it's just something you go for if you dont have anything better to do at that point
latent moon
true actually, not a big lucifer user but it would probably work very well there...
"well" lmao
poseidon has a really bad % attack modifier
it's just budget lightning strike at that point
oak lily
Dionysis might be my favorites of the Olympians presented in the game
humble pulsar
yeah its cause the damage is supposed to come from wall slam, but you cant benefit from that on some enemies (esp bosses)
oak lily
He's a chill bro, what more could you ask for
humble pulsar
well enough to win 32, probably not any higher though
oak lily
hey i'd try to fight out of hell long as i can get at least a free bottle of some fine champagne
humble pulsar
funny enough I was trying to force Vengeful Mood out of that rail build for the comedy of it but the game just didnt let me
latent moon
for some reason i dont have a 32 heat luci clear lmao
i swore i did all rails at 32 but guess not
humble pulsar
Lucifer never felt like it supported my aggressive playstyle so I never got super into it
humble pulsar
Eris Rail also used to be way stronger than its launch version, it had to get nerfed a couple times (used to last 8 seconds).
stone rune
and it's a melee weapon
latent moon
Lucifer never felt like it supported my aggressive playstyle so I never got supe...
the fun part about luci is that it encourages holding down the attack and dashing at the same time, so you just have negative iframes
stone rune
Eris Rail also used to be way stronger than its launch version, it had to get ne...
the time lasted does not matter for eris so long as it's above like 1.5 seconds
latent moon
Eris Rail also used to be way stronger than its launch version, it had to get ne...
i mean, you still have like a constant up time anyways so i dont think it being 8 seconds matters lmao
stone rune
it's very generous already
humble pulsar
oh yeah for sure the nerf was warranted back in the day
stone rune
i mean it's not much of a nerf
latent moon
well i guess tbf most people played slower back then
but i feel like 4 seconds is still a lot of time now lmao
humble pulsar
yeah its launch version had higher numbers overall, but its still my favorite
launch meaning "when it first was added" not "when the game released 1.0" (bad wording)
I could also be mis-remembering Hunting Blades' speed since its been easily like... 4 years (holy im old). Could have just been since there were less Hermes boons you could almost always have Flurry Cast and no green mirror talents meant it was always like +80% speed
untold crown
is there a list of everything that got nerfed in hades?
strong ridge
nasty dash
untold crown
lol ty, yeah some of these are funny like pommable dp from athena
oak lily
I dunno if its just my terrible luck of not being great with either of the ranged weapons
But it seems like its really hard to kill bosses with Coronacht & Exagryph
stone rune
probably build issue
oak lily
specially Asterius & Theseus, then again i struggle with Theseus's stupid damn spear & shield combo period
Its weird how i can usually get rid of Asterius no problem and handle that bull by the horns
But i struggle against the chucklehead who has 2 of your weapons at the same time
oak lily
Its just really hard for me to get behind him long enough to deal damage
mint coral
can dodge the spear throw and hit him while he retreats too
or just bait the spear spins and dodge through him
compact dawn
You know how you have the MotN tooltips you can look at when on an escape attempt? I noticed that if you purge your only boon belonging to an Olympian your Family Favourite damage bonus goes down
I was told by someone in this server that this isn't the case
stone rune
when
stone rune
yea
compact dawn
We were talking about Family Favourite AND how the God Pool works and I confused the two things
compact dawn
Hundreds of hours in, I just heard Zagreus sing, "Flaaaaaame eaterrrr" after catching one
sour fog
I saw that on youtube but never got it myself, also hundreds of hours
compact dawn
I wonder if it's meant to be the MGS3 theme song
Or maybe it's just a goofy little moment
fleet lance
Its weird how i can usually get rid of Asterius no problem and handle that bull ...
its the opposite usually
theseus is damn easy, the bull is a nightmare, almost can never kill him without taking dmg
especially on high heat
fleet lance
But it seems like its really hard to kill bosses with Coronacht & Exagryph
you cant use either the bow or the gun when moving as effectively while you can still dash strike with the melee weapons
and if you're not moving constantly against a boss, you're most likely dead
you can still bypass that fact by using hestia on the gun and hera on the bow
sour fog
I wonder if it's meant to be the MGS3 theme song
it's definitely a reference
void vigil
huh how did you do that text
void vigil
TIL
onyx mist
Ye it's new
onyx mist
# my classic languages teacher plays Hades oh god
Actually this might be very bad
Dude knows Hades is about daddy issues probably
pastel monolith
i totaly forgot about that big text function. thx for reminding me
brb while i annoy everyone in other servers 😆
fierce aurora
what do people that read percy jackson feel about the game?
simple tundra
Opinion on Chiron?
latent moon
chiron is pretty chill
a certain someone here hates chiron because it's not good for speed or high heat, but i frankly don't care lmao
fleet lance
which aspects are best for high heat
ive died 30 times in a row trying to clear 32 heat
noble merlin
a certain someone here hates chiron because it's not good for speed or high heat...
I got excited when I saw a high heat Chiron run...and it was just him dashing around with tidal dash and casting attack 
latent moon
ive died 30 times in a row trying to clear 32 heat
every aspect works fine at 32 tbf
whatever you're most comfortable with will work well
noble merlin
yeah, every aspect that you're comfortable with is the key phrase lol
strong ridge
aspect of smair bane of 32
latent moon
i mean if you want specific aspects, beowulf, hestia, zeus, and any bow will work
strong ridge
zeus eris 32 stroll
mint coral
When in doubt
Dash only run
noble merlin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og2XqttUJ7U here's a 50 heat Chiron, no dash cheesing, Im honestly impressed he made time on this with these boons. no EM4 50 heat btw
strong ridge
how much heat
noble merlin
yeah zeus/tdash eris is free
arth special on Chiron is nice, since you're not really susceptible to bad RNG because of all the hits. damage just smooths out.
latent moon
i plan to do dash only 32 heat for my gilga run
strong ridge
boot up the drift phonk pl
noble merlin
a certain someone here hates chiron because it's not good for speed or high heat...
https://imgflip.com/i/7n98za Even google hates on Chiron. 
latent moon
i mean chiron works fine until like 40ish for the casual player lmao
same with hera i think
fierce aurora
Opinion on Chiron?
the game, i dont who is chiron i didn't beat hades yet
i got to him twice
almost killed him and died
untold crown
chiron is fun if you get a good special
rama mostly does the same thing though esp if you get relentless volley
charred veldt
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423540667726168064/1111765523328413787/Screenshot_2023-05-26_231844.png I love so much when they perform in the blood together ❤️
I wish I had this acoustic version to listen to ig ;o;
latent moon
rama mostly does the same thing though esp if you get relentless volley
That just sounds like budget delta chamber rail
astral ginkgo
`
noble merlin
When you got the hammer and both attack/specials you want in Tart. And then this happens. https://ibb.co/k2TwGHZ
latent moon
Lmao what aspect is this
Chiron?
That's the only aspect I can think of that would build like this
noble merlin
yeah
latent moon
Yeah it do be like that
noble merlin
it's the build that 50 heat video earlier did. It's...OK. Strong enough through aspo, but yeah I dont think it hangs in Elysium without the duo
latent moon
Iirc the world record heat for Chiron uses ares on the special lmao
I only watched like a minute of it
noble merlin
does he use the stacking doom boon?
latent moon
Idk
I didn't watch that much lmao
The heat wrs is in a spreadsheet pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies if you wanna take a look
untold crown
I did stacked doom on chiron special not long ago, wasn't trying for it ares was just there
it was quite fun
not fast or anything, but fun
noble merlin
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/255197868397166595/1111788670706524160/FxFtIA4WcAEGq21.jpg ugh, the pain in this choice
untold crown
can't see what weapon you have but I would simply not get rid of a heroic artemis special. I'd sell the hermes boon instead, but I'm also never interested in his boosts to attack/special speed, compared to his other offerings
mint coral
do you have concentrated volley
latent moon
If this is Chiron I'd sell the attack
The attack is doing the least amount of damage here
noble merlin
The attack is doing the least amount of damage here
I had the deflect duo though
yeah I would have sold it otherwise
mint coral
if you want more crit just get hunter's mark
also with having so few core boons it will be offered quite quickly again too
or you could pick up divine dash later
noble merlin
yeah I just ended up getting hunter's mark anyway, so felt like a waste...that 30% special speed I really noticed when I lost it
mint coral
I'd keep it just in chance I get conc volley
cuz chaining dmg through volleys is hilarious
untold crown
special button go brrr, you win
noble merlin
yeah I went tooth and got the craziest room Ive ever seen and had to use the tooth, so went into twins with less than optimal health...of course I choked
special speed gives you a smaller window to fit specials in safely...in hindsight I'll always keep it from now on
latent moon
I had the deflect duo though
Deflect attack on Chiron for the duo is pretty worthless anyways
Deadly reversal is much more potent if you have divine dash or even flourish here
latent moon
On Chiron?
stone rune
yeah
latent moon
Why are you guys doing phalanx lmao
stone rune
i was doing pash but bigp just posted a 440
phalanx is like if pash didn’t instaphase furies lvl3
stone rune
12 but pash has a lot better pom scaling
latent moon
wait that's so cursed they both have the same damage at common
Passion:
Common:
Cast Damage: 80
Rare:
Cast Damage: 96
Epic:
Cast Damage: 112
Heroic:
Cast Damage: 128
noble merlin
Deflect attack on Chiron for the duo is pretty worthless anyways
deflect attack is definitely part of the core mechanic of this combo, attack a lot with chiron, at least a 1:2 ratio. But I'm not sold on it, I'd rather get the safety of aphro on attack with heart rend and just get a hunter's mark. You don't lack in boss damage anyway. Only thing I like about this combo is it guarantees athena in your pool which helps with -trap damage and ddash which can help in styx/hades.
latent moon
phalanx:
Common:
Cast Damage: 80
Rare:
Cast Damage: 90
Epic:
Cast Damage: 100
Heroic:
Cast Damage: 110
stone rune
exiting tart rn with mirage but lvl2 cast
might need to roll sell well
cores filled
latent moon
deflect attack is definitely part of the core mechanic of this combo, attack a l...
i mean chiron sucks because of how slow the special is lmao, epic swift flourish is very strong on chiron
not like the attack is giving you much dps compared to swift flourish anyways
noble merlin
yeah it was double the crit rate or 30% speed...in hindsight I'd go the speed
the attack was proccing the 20% crit
latent moon
the attack was proccing the 20% crit
what keepsake did you start with
because i would've sold attack and forced athena into aspho
unless this is coming out of aspho
noble merlin
this was going into elysium, went arth > athena
latent moon
yeah i still would've sold the attack lmao
swift flourish provides more safety
and more consistent dps
stone rune
lmfao just missed meg but instakilled witches anyways
latent moon
that's a beo moment
latent moon
gone forever
stone rune
305 exit
just need sub1 ely into sub1 styxdsd
325 into c28
love this biome
10s heroes because i’m garbo
compact dawn
What's the most visually chaotic Aspect/Boon/Hammer combination?
I was just playing around with Luci w/ Triple Bomb and Mirage Shot Flood Shot (5 casts)
noble merlin
Whats the trick with the Shade to land Meg? I thought I had it but now Im missing it last two
stone rune
?
noble merlin
the miniboss in Tart
stone rune
the bombers?
noble merlin
no the one that teleports constantly
noble merlin
ah yeah thats the name
stone rune
you basically just have to learn the timing
no tells
i just did a session let me see
latent moon
Just wait as soon as it reappears
noble merlin
yeah someone said like as she's just teleporting in from the first teleport, I think I'm just hesitating
latent moon
Yeah probably
There's a way to 0 cycle it as soon as the sneak spawns but I don't think you're asking for that lmao
stone rune
noble merlin
kk I'll try that, thank you
compact dawn
If the Well of Charon gives me the option to spawn an Infernal Trove or Fishing spot, does that mean I won't get either for that region if I don't make the purchase?
Also, is it possible to purchase a Fishing spot at Greece?
noble merlin
No. Yes.
stone rune
Also, is it possible to purchase a Fishing spot at Greece?
shouldnt be able to unless you stack 2
because i think any skeletal lure you buy in styx chambers would probably be used in the temple
stone rune
well you can get a fishing spot in styx
noble merlin
yeah I guess there's no way to bypass the styx one that would appear and carry it over
stone rune
i think it will carry over if you have 2
tepid plover
If the Well of Charon gives me the option to spawn an Infernal Trove or Fishing ...
The trove and fish item just guaranteeds it, if you don't buy it you can still get it randomly
compact dawn
i think it will carry over if you have 2
I see. In another words, it's possible to guarantee but very unlikely
tepid plover
Is just very impossible to do, since you'd need to buy 2 copies of it in the last chamber of styx
So 1 gets used in the shop, and the other goes to hades fight
latent moon
i dont think that's very possible lmao
possible but not very
oh i read very possible not very impossible
man it's not even that late lmao
tepid plover
Idk if rerolling the charon cauldron can give the same item
latent moon
it can
stone rune
you can dupe
stone rune
yea but you can ensure you get duped items
tepid plover
I think I've rerolled cauldron like twice ever
latent moon
it's really only worth it on castpects
chrome creek
Someone more well versed please enlighten me on the topic of Boon rarity, one of the few real annoyances I have in regards of vagueness of mechanics I have with Hades.
1: What does +X% chance of a Boon being Rare or better mean, in practice? Because my initial assumption would be that it means -X% chance of a Common Boon being generated, but since some sources claim that this kind of an effect does not, in fact, increase the chance of a Legendary or Duo Boons, I must be mistaken. As vacuuming off chance of Common should, indirectly, mean increased chance of everything else.
2: How does a mini-Boss/Erebus/etc. reward Boon differ from a normal one? It means standard 5 different Action type Boons are always Rare, but it does not make such guarantee of other kinds of Boons (as I see Commons on those Boons). So do they, in fact, affect chance of Rarities for other than Action-related Boons?
3: Why does guaranteed Epic Boon (a Duo Boon effect) and guaranteed increased Rarity (Ariadne) not equal a guaranteed Heroic Boon? Or Boss reward Boon plus Ariadne not guarantee an Epic Action-related Boon? Because that seems like the natural reading of these combinations. Ariadne does not, in fact, read "Next Boon is not Common", it is "Next Boon is increased Rarity". Which should imply "guaranteed increased Rarity compared to the pre-existing baseline". Or, simply put "Whatever Rarity was generated, +1 it". :b
stone rune
Someone more well versed please enlighten me on the topic of Boon rarity, one of...
chaos rarity gives +X% to rare, and a flat +10% to epic and duo/lego
miniboss rewards have
in tart
0% common chance, higher epic chance
in other biomes 5% common chance
and 10% instead of 12% default lego/duo chance
stone rune
you can't get heroic except from replacements in screens
chrome creek
Thanks for the answer, I could not find info on this in the game itself, and threads on this topic were vague at best.
stone rune
the only sources of heroic boons are eury rarity upgrades on epic boons, crop, and replacements of epic boons
chrome creek
you can't get heroic except from replacements in screens
This I am aware of. I just disagree with this design decision. :b
chrome creek
Fair enough, though I think that be the nature of single run roguelikes: if busted happens, so be it.
Thanks for your time.
stone rune
roguelite but also there is definitely more busted stuff for everything except hermes
hermes heroics from a screen would be insane
the game does its best to be balanced in casual play
trying to break it will of course lead to breaking it
latent moon
idk how much i'd like random heroic boons tbh lmao
stone rune
imagine resetting for red rd
latent moon
like randomly naturally offered apart from replacements
chrome creek
Oh, that reminds me: Rare Crop does not seem to ever pick Hermes Boons. As I have gotten Epic Crop with 3 Boons, one of which was Hermes, and it did not pick Hermes. That seemed a tad odd.
tepid plover
Someone more well versed please enlighten me on the topic of Boon rarity, one of...
Only way to get heroic boon is by replacing or dem I believe
latent moon
rare crop can never hit hermes
tepid plover
Idk if eurydice can
stone rune
eury is only heroic hermes source
chrome creek
Idk if eurydice can
Eurydice can, have had.
tepid plover
Kk then those 3
chrome creek
I was not very happy with that Rare Crop fizzle. :b
stone rune
i don’t think i’ve gotten a single red rd in my hyper runs lmfao
stone rune
what would be funnier is if it also changed your movement speed
chrome creek
My other gripe is related to Deflected attacks: How come that area attacks like, like Bombs, hit me when I am in the same post-code, but when I reflect them they only hit an enemy that is standing right on top of it? I do think a reflected attack should not have a smaller area of effect than the projectile that was thrown at me. :b
But that is less of a question and more of a gripe how X and reflected X do not seem to be the same. Despite slowed projectile remaining slowed reflected projectile, which makes that Duo boon actually detrimental for reflection to be effective. :b
stone rune
My other gripe is related to Deflected attacks: How come that area attacks like,...
calculated risk sucks and you shouldnt take it
but also i feel like the aoe is the same
chrome creek
I know, I never do unless I want it out of the pool for other Duo Boons. :b
latent moon
what does "post-code" mean
latent moon
oh lmao
chrome creek
It just meant that the area seems larger. As in "area where post-office delivers letters". :b
stone rune
I know, I never do unless I want it out of the pool for other Duo Boons. :b
the trick is to not have dio and athena anywhere near each other unless you're doing fists heat
latent moon
reflected projectiles go back the way they came, they don't target back the enemy afaik, so the enemy might've moved such that the reflected projectile would miss
latent moon
angel had dio atk i thought
chrome creek
Calculated Risk would not be decent if it was tied to any God other than Athena. That it *is tied to Athena makes it directly detrimental.
Hell, imagine if Athena+Dio Duo instead increased Hangover durations by a second? Or, in other words,slightly weaker Ares+Dionysus? I would always take it. Would also make Peer Pressure relevant, since now it could become a self-feeding loop more easily.
stone rune
peer pressure is bugged but also bad
it does like
8x damage
but it is also worthless
chrome creek
reflected projectiles go back the way they came, they don't target back the enem...
But that be the thing: it does not seem to hit an enemy that is as close to the projectile as it would have hit me had I stood in that position. But, of course, I could be mistaken.
latent moon
tbh i dont pay attention to the projectile after i reflect it unless it's the splitter in elysium
because they one shot themselves
latent moon
Calculated Risk would not be decent if it was tied to any God other than Athena....
i do agree with this tho, calc risk is pretty bad and your duo idea is honestly pretty good lmao
chrome creek
peer pressure overwrites hangover sources
I am aware. Point was that then I could just apply a Hangover to few enemies and walk away while they die by themselves, since each Hangover would slowly result in 2 Hangovers in others in vicinity. But I guess it is pointless to talk about hypotheticals, that Skill is bad as it is currently implemented.
stone rune
simply kill them before they can even shoot something deflectable
chrome creek
i do agree with this tho, calc risk is pretty bad and your duo idea is honestly ...
Thanks.
latent moon
simply kill them before they can even shoot something deflectable
well you could just reflect it and then kill another enemy with that dash strike
stone rune
simply group them
chrome creek
simply kill them before they can even shoot something deflectable
That is indeed the reason I think the Reflect-damage should be doubled. Because as is, the Reflect damage is non-existent even with the Boon that around doubles it. It is basically only ever relevant with some ranged enemies that get one-shot with it. It is basically never fast enough to be relevant, and, resultingly, Athena is pretty bad other than for her Legendary, Dash and Duo Boons.
latent moon
even if the reflect damage was doubled, i dont think it's that relevant anyways lmao
i guess tart witches will one shot themselves now or something like that
chrome creek
Well it definitely could not hurt. As is I only ever like Athena around when I get dash or am hunting a specific Duo. :b
latent moon
i guess
still python
replenishing a death defiance is pretty decent tho in some cases
and the calls not bad
chrome creek
Hell, on Bosses it would make the difference of having the around-doubling Reflect damage Boon from not even visible/barely visible health reduction to barely visible/actually relevant. :b
latent moon
bosses have like a couple thousand hp, reflecting for double will obviously be better but also it's still a super tiny chunk lmao
chrome creek
and the calls not bad
Fair enough. But the Death Defiance ones I seem to only ever get reliably when they are already full. I think those should have the condition to only appear when a Death Defiance has been lost.
...I also resent that the Ares Death Defiance Boon does not replenish one, but that's just me. Especially since it does not, apparently even stack with multiple Defiances lost. :b
latent moon
hades getting hit by 40 damage reflected cast isn't doing much lmao
noble merlin
I find that reflecting does very good damage, almost to the point I ignore witches and kill them with their own projectiles while I kill other mobs
chrome creek
bosses have like a couple thousand hp, reflecting for double will obviously be b...
Yeah, but if Reflect was doubled, doubling that would be quadruple damage, and that might actually be a decent chunk off their health. :b
latent moon
it'll be more sizable but still pretty eh
still python
I find that reflecting does very good damage, almost to the point I ignore witch...
armoured witches then?
chrome creek
I find that reflecting does very good damage, almost to the point I ignore witch...
Witches and other Shooters? Yes. Anything else? Rarely.
latent moon
80 damage lmao
noble merlin
but I also play almost exclusively at Hard Labor, so I assume that makes them do double damage
latent moon
i'm pretty sure hades steps in more than 3 pots over the course of a normal fight
latent moon
but I also play almost exclusively at Hard Labor, so I assume that makes them do...
tbh idk if HL makes reflected projectiles deal more damage
still python
and most shooters either shoot too fast or run away before it even reaches you
noble merlin
I mean, it's directly proportional to their health...Not sure why you would expect 500 health mobs to die to their 25 damage attacks
still python
guys who is the best god in general
latent moon
I mean, it's directly proportional to their health...Not sure why you would expe...
reflected damage isn't proportional to the enemy's hp
it's the same damage to what they deal
latent moon
guys who is the best god in general
aspect dependent lmao
noble merlin
reflected projectiles go back the way they came, they don't target back the enem...
I'm 95.67% sure they go back to their target at the time of reflect, which of course can still miss. I could be wrong
latent moon
and build dependent
still python
i n g e n e r a l
latent moon
I'm 95.67% sure they go back to their target at the time of reflect, which of co...
yeah they do
still python
who is beneficial the most to the moajority
chrome creek
tbh idk if HL makes reflected projectiles deal more damage
If it does not, then it should. :b
Same way as having more enemies should mean more Gold generated.
latent moon
does more enemies not give you more gold
noble merlin
reflected damage isn't proportional to the enemy's hp
yeah it's late, I don't know why I typed proportional...I meant that it just feels that reflecting is underwhelming at high hp mobs that don't deal a whole lot of damage
chrome creek
It does.
noble merlin
whereas witches throw upwards of 9 projectiles at once
still python
also why is the hades call regarded as good it doesnt seem all that good compared to all the other ones
still python
also reflection isnt an entirely damage based ability like you guys are talking about it as
latent moon
i mean i think it's perfectly fine as is lmao
still python
i only use it for defence anyways and if it happens to kill a witch thats cool too
noble merlin
yeah arguing that deflect is underpowered is an odd take
deflecting effectively makes your dashes that much safer, by removing any chance you land in a current projectile
still python
even if reflection did no damage divine dash would still be very worth taking imo
latent moon
probably yeah
chrome creek
even if reflection did no damage divine dash would still be very worth taking im...
Dash? Yes. But the attack and special leave things to desire. Takes forever to kill anything worthwhile, and the protection is fickle at best. As evidenced by Aspect of Lucifer death beam not Reflecting anything reliably. :b
Not sure what word the bot took offense to, but whatever, the message has been sanitized. :b
noble merlin
athena dam% isn't really that bad
still python
true but i think the solution would be to just up the numbers and not the reflection damage
in order to not inadvertently buff divine dash for no reason
latent moon
athena attack on lucifer is a different issue
latent moon
athena dam% isn't really that bad
the attack % is pretty mediocre but the special isn't too bad
still python
as well as the fact that reflection would still not be relevant
chrome creek
true but i think the solution would be to just up the numbers and not the reflec...
Personally I would find that boring, since that would just be a demonstration that the reflection itself is worth next to nothing if it needs pure damage to pump itself up.
still python
its true though
still python
exactly
chrome creek
Agree to disagree, but fair enough. :b
still python
does anyone know the actual %speed debuff of chill per stack
it seems pretty useless imo
still python
its only okay on bosses but even then
still python
if its 2 it needs to be 4
not worth putting on special or attack or dash tho
i only take demeter for revenge and call
latent moon
it's a respectable % modifier at epic
and the dash is bad yeah
it's a cope for passion beo for pstatus
but also you generally dont pick demeter for the chill effect lmao
still python
well it is her main ability so it shouldnt be that weak
latent moon
lmao i guess
but it's not the worst in the world
chill is pretty nice at high heats
helps tone down FO a bit
still python
but it's not the worst in the world
whats worse then 🤨
latent moon
depending on the aspect/build, ares, dio, and zeus can be bad lmao
flat damage is inherently more aspect/build dependent
still python
absolutely everything can be bad depending on the aspect/build
latent moon
fair
noble merlin
it's the same damage to what they deal
so I just tested, and it appears deflected objects just have a flat 40 damage amount they do
still python
except divine dash ✨
latent moon
but in general, doom is pretty bad unless you get merciful end
dio is bad if you dont build around him to begin with
and zeus honestly isn't that bad, just build dependent
still python
dio cast is always good imo
latent moon
well that's not hangover
still python
i like doom
latent moon
we were talking about effects
still python
his call is always good too then
still python
and doom is good regardless i think
still python
you just circle all the things
latent moon
you can work with it without any supplements until like ely
noble merlin
deflecting a 5 damage witch, or a 20 damage witch still reflected 40 dam, deflecting an 8 damage hit from fury sister was also 40 dam
latent moon
oh funky
latent moon
you just circle all the things
yeah hit and run lmao
and even then i'd lowkey rather use dio lmao
still python
true
noble merlin
I can test with the bombs in aspo, but I'd assume they're also just a generic projectile, which is why you were finding they had different hitboxes
still python
maybe idk cos ive literally never tried doom without merciful end to a certain extent
latent moon
ME is what makes doom good lmao
noble merlin
no matter what comes at you, the same generic projectile gets deflected back, no matter what it seems
noble merlin
I had a doom phase for awhile there. Dark times.
still python
didnt even reroll
chrome creek
I personally find freeze to be one of the better effects. Hell, it makes it easier to avoid damage from enemies than Reflecting, while also having better secondary Boon effects. :b
still python
i was going for it too
still python
I personally find freeze to be one of the better effects. Hell, it makes it easi...
i disagree with your opinions on reflecting
the only effects worse than freeze are aphrodites which she makes up for with numbers
still python
also, why doesnt hades just have a base crit chance that you start off with, like 3-5% like other games
latent moon
you get damage output and damage reduction
latent moon
also, why doesnt hades just have a base crit chance that you start off with, lik...
because crits triple your damage in this game
still python
but having weak at higher heats is great
we're speaking in general, at least i am
latent moon
i mean even in general, weak is still pretty good
still python
1-2%?
latent moon
30% damage reduction goes kinda hard
noble merlin
Aphrodite debuff being weak I hope is a play on words
still python
only to the things you hit which is pretty much things you kill already
latent moon
probably is
still python
maybe i just suck
latent moon
eh an innate crit chance would be nice i guess but feels completely unnecessary, especially because crits are artemis' whole thing
still python
i havent done high heat at all yet
highest is 15 for generic speedrunning
il try 32 today
latent moon
maybe i just suck
i mean you stop one shotting stuff starting in Ely lmao
so the weak becomes more useful
stop one shotting stuff on like hestia
with aphro atk
ideally
noble merlin
yeah high HL on boss fights can be really rough without weakness
latent moon
highest is 15 for generic speedrunning
are you doing rta?
still python
yeah alright il experiment more
still python
are you doing rta?
no im too new for that it takes me a while to decide on boons and stuff
i cant just read the names like most people
latent moon
if that's the case, then do 9 heat lol
noble merlin
I will agree weak isnt the greatest for normal room clears
latent moon
em2 fo2
still python
what about the timer thingy
latent moon
wdym
still python
also 15 gives me bounties at this stage
latent moon
tight deadline turns off the survival rooms in tartarus, which pauses the in game timer
latent moon
9 heat implies i have the timer thing set to infinite doesnt it
yeah but if you're speedrunning you have "limited time" technically
noble merlin
tight deadline turns off the survival rooms in tartarus, which pauses the in gam...
THAT'S what turns that off
still python
tight deadline turns off the survival rooms in tartarus, which pauses the in gam...
im not rly serious on speedrunning yet so id rather have two titan bloods an ambrosia and a diamond than 15 seconds some of the time
latent moon
fair
still python
how do people get sub 10
ive watched all the guides
doesnt seem to work that well
and like 10 sec boss kills
noble merlin
go fast
noble merlin
and like 10 sec boss kills
thats mostly Beho, or tidal cheese
noble merlin
good build, good routing, good luck
still python
yeah my boss kills are usually like 40 seconds
latent moon
probably build issue
still python
i go for merciful end on like 70% of my runs
with divine dash
or i use hestia with artemis
latent moon
well your heroes fight should be like 20 seconds tops
dad fight about a minute
because that's just long
stone rune
or i use hestia with artemis
aph is better
latent moon
lernie fight time depends on if you have ME or not by then
and furies is gonna be slow because your build isn't online yet most of the time
still python
yeah it is 20 secs tops and dad fight is 1 minute but my runs still slow
latent moon
room routing then
still python
aph is better
oh alright thanks
latent moon
not efficient killing enemies in normal rooms
stone rune
on hestia to take arty you need a lot of c chaos additive
still python
how do you efficiently kill enemies in nroal rooms then
still python
ok il try
latent moon
work your way from one end of the room to the other
you can try spawn manipulation, but that's not needed for sub10 frankly
still python
sub 10 too hard :c
latent moon
the gist of it is basically ending waves near a corner
latent moon
sub 10 too hard :c
you'll get it soon enough
still python
im like the only person who isnt in love with eris
noble merlin
how do people get sub 10
https://youtu.be/rF4VJjUFVU4 this'll blow your mind then
still python
seeded
latent moon
sub 10 too hard :c
you also just got the game like a week ago lmao
still python
you think i havent watched that
latent moon
so take your time
noble merlin
technically not seeded, just manipulation
latent moon
technically not seeded, just manipulation
no it's seeded
still python
you also just got the game like a week ago lmao
i dont see how i could get better
latent moon
more practice
stone rune
i dont see how i could get better
playing more lmao
noble merlin
yeah but its still manipulated to get that exact outcome
still python
technically not seeded, just manipulation
technically seeded..
latent moon
yeah but its still manipulated to get that exact outcome
that's because that's routed lmao
routing mod
noble merlin
why does he have to break the pots then?
latent moon
they figured out every input you need to do to get a certain result and wrote it down
they then saved the seed and kept running it until they got a low time
still python
playing more lmao
no i get that but like i havent been improving in the last three days i got 12.16 ages ago and cant beat
latent moon
any mistake is a reset
stone rune
no i get that but like i havent been improving in the last three days i got 12.1...
play heat
latent moon
why does he have to break the pots then?
that's part of it
depending on the room ofc
still python
i keep playign and the exact same things happen every time
still python
and i play the same way
latent moon
well playing the same way is gonna give you the same results
stone rune
then did another speedrun and got like a 930
still python
what is "heat stuff" then
noble merlin
yeah high heat just forces you to play better and more efficiently, that'll just push your time down
stone rune
what is "heat stuff" then
i did 32 40 50 and 33 boonless mirrorless
noble merlin
although I find myself subconsciously spending all my 20mins in my high heat runs, so it also builds bad habits if you're going for pure speed
still python
i feel like thatd make you improve less
still python
alrighty
stone rune
heat is play more
latent moon
but also just literally unironically play more
stone rune
pretty shrimple
latent moon
it took me a while to get a sub10
latent moon
from when i started grinding it, probably like 2 weeks or so, and i already had over 150 hours or something in the game
stone rune
yeah it’s all based on your prior experience
latent moon
like you're still pretty new to the game
still python
ah ok
latent moon
give it time
sub10 is above average to most players anyways
and you got the game a week ago
still python
is cluster rockets good or is it just a pro strat thats not that good if you arent good
latent moon
it's always good
still python
i just like hestia so much more than eris
latent moon
the damage reduction from cluster doesn't apply to rockets so it's a base 400 damage at point blank
still python
yeah i know
latent moon
there's never a reason to not go for it unless it's high heat
still python
whats te reason not to go for it at high heat
stone rune
also play hestia because it’s super good and awesome
stone rune
whats te reason not to go for it at high heat
ap2
latent moon
well besides that
still python
idk what that means sorry
latent moon
delta chamber iframes
still python
is it the blue bar
stone rune
delta chamber iframes become relevant around when getting better hammers is harder
latent moon
is hazard hestia because of ap2 or because better damage
stone rune
is hazard hestia because of ap2 or because better damage
room clear + ap2
latent moon
is it the blue bar
ap2 is approval process 2, 2 less options per choice
stone rune
aoe is huge
still python
oh
noble merlin
latent moon
you dont go for clockets at high heat because 1) ap2 2) delta chamber iframes 3) hazard on hestia gud
still python
ok
stone rune
i think if you could get good spec hammers delta chamber would be ditched
latent moon
eh
noble merlin
you dont go for clockets at high heat because 1) ap2 2) delta chamber iframes 3)...
by AP2 you mean it's just really hard to get both in one run?
still python
also how do you play gilgamesh its literally worse demeter
stone rune
iframes are nice but dmg is better
stone rune
also how do you play gilgamesh its literally worse demeter
you don’t
latent moon
by AP2 you mean it's just really hard to get both in one run?
yeah
stone rune
shrimple
still python
thought as much
stone rune
good morning everyone
latent moon
on ap2 you like dont even reroll boons most of the time
you just say "screw it" and take it and save rerolls for the purging well
stone rune
you just say "screw it" and take it and save rerolls for the purging well
and athena
latent moon
even if you could reroll hammers, it's hardly ever worth a reroll on ap2 unless the choice is just bad
latent moon
and athena
true
latent moon
ap2 is probably one of the last ones id use on high heat
i took ap2 before em4 lol
stone rune
ap2 is probably one of the last ones id use on high heat
it sucks but better than other stuff
latent moon
3 times
stone rune
ap2 >> em4
latent moon
also how do you play gilgamesh its literally worse demeter
gilga kinda just not great most of the time lmao
stone rune
you should use my awesome ri2 ap2 pact
still python
em4 is just hades 3 lives right
latent moon
yeah
stone rune
with summons
still python
whats so bad about the third life
latent moon
oh 3 lives is an over simplification
stone rune
and spear rush
latent moon
dad gets a lot more moves
still python
oh..
still python
cerb????
still python
how would permentn pots even work
stone rune
there’s always at least 2 pots on screen
from p2 on
if you shoot one another instantly spawns
latent moon
oh really lmao
still python
lmao
latent moon
i've only done em4 recently like once
still python
cerberus tho? that sounds annoying
latent moon
and that was a month ago or something
stone rune
cerberus tho? that sounds annoying
it’s only once
but it does a lot of damage, you need to be in one of two spots to be safe
latent moon
em4 isn't worth the 4 heat lmao
noble merlin
feels like dodging an MMO mechanic lol
latent moon
you only take it when you dont have any other options basically
still python
itshould be like 10
latent moon
well tbf it's not that bad at lower heats
but then you start stacking hl5, fo2, etc
and then it's bad
noble merlin
yeah it's just bad when you're forced to take it ironically enough
latent moon
if you dont get touch of styx dark or you dont have a mirror, you can only take like 3 hits max at that high heat
granted acorn means 5 extra hits
still python
touch of styx dark?
latent moon
patty item exlcusive with stubborn defiance
sd heals 50% more
and SD is used at high heats instead of death defiance (DD)
stone rune
basically nothing
still python
and SD is used at high heats instead of death defiance (DD)
dang
latent moon
the invulnerability bubble you get when you get wombo comboed doesn't exist anymore
stone rune
it stops the invuln bubble from proccing
latent moon
most of the time it's pointless
stone rune
the bad part about hell mode is forcing js1 cp1
noble merlin
it's like an i-frame bubble that procs when you take like 25% of your health in a period of time
still python
oh
latent moon
the bad part about hell mode is forcing js1 cp1
js1 isn't that bad
still python
what is js1
latent moon
cp1 is the bigger issue
still python
is it the more enemies
latent moon
yeah
still python
whats cp1
latent moon
the abbreviations are pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies btw
calisthenics program
15% more hp on every enemy
still python
oh thanks
latent moon
aka dad has 2.5k more hp per phase per rank
noble merlin
I was doing some CP2 runs by accident on my bow, and kept on timing out, couldnt figure out why...until I hit Lernie with a meg and it didnt kill him
dunno how i turned it on
still python
wait dad has 16.5k hp
stone rune
js1 isn't that bad
not festive tho
still python
good to know
noble merlin
but yeah CP is like the last thing you want to turn on
latent moon
his hp is on the wiki lol
latent moon
idk i've only opened it like once in my life
stone rune
latent moon
bruh lmao
stone rune
it’s useful
still python
hestia first aspect w
latent moon
that explains how you always link stuff so fast
latent moon
i just simply dont link stuff that often
still python
just out of curiosity, whatre you guys' best times and how long u been playing
stone rune
527 playing since dec 25
latent moon
how do you find the day you started playing lmao
stone rune
i use steam buy date
latent moon
where does one find that
stone rune
lmao idk
still python
whats your time then
stone rune
first reddit post or something
latent moon
modded
still python
whats your unmodded
stone rune
i don’t think i’ve even done an unmodded speedrun
still python
damn
latent moon
for you jazz at least lmao
latent moon
back then i didn't really post that many victory screens so idk my speedrunning progress lmao
my pb was 13:02 then i got 9:51
so idk what happened there
i do remember trying for sub10 for a while tho
gray apex
just out of curiosity, whatre you guys' best times and how long u been playing
I got the game 5 January of 2021, my playtime is a little over 900 hours. Best times are 5:56 Unmodded, 4:58 Modded and 4:15 Hypermodded
stone rune
I got the game 5 January of 2021, my playtime is a little over 900 hours. Best t...
do pash flare
get sub430 for fun
it seems unnecessary in hyper cause u just get the damage anyways
but i think it’s physically possible on flood to not instaphase furies
which it basically isn’t on pash
and phalanx is so annoying
heroes sucks
gray apex
get sub430 for fun
I dont think its that tough
stone rune
I dont think its that tough
i mean youre gamer
it wouldn’t take u that long
i’m trash at lernie
gray apex
I wanted to get back to 50 heat hades
gray apex
i’m trash at lernie
how
stone rune
how
my stone management sucks
and half the time i’ll miss rd uptime
so i one stone but don’t get the kill
most of everything else i’m ok at
i screw up heroes sometimes
and furies sometimes
and dad occasionally
but hyper practice was helpful
heroes is funny though
because the time difference between a good and bad one is like 5 seconds but that’s also double the good time
i actually just loathe hades though
despicable aspect
doesn’t deal damage before hammer
doesn’t deal damage after hammer
gray apex
If I do hades tonight Ill try Passion flare sub430
gray apex
For now it kinda depends on the ruleset
Full hypermodded is absurd
It’s like sub530 or something
On a wep like Beo
stone rune
sub5 seems like sub630
idk my igt beo skill tho
but pash flare sub5 would probably have taken dame amt of grinding as a sub630
got a 505 and then bigp posted 440
so i was like ok phalanx time
gray apex
Well ig it’s my turn
stone rune
sub5 seems more like sub6 on phalanx
has taken some grinding
but also i suck so it might still be sub630
cause i’d probably take way longer to get another sub6
do u think there’ll be a hyper sheet
stone rune
it seems like current full with normal wells right
stone rune
oh man am i gonna have to get used to actually needing rolls again
gray apex
Well no I mean the rarity
gray apex
Yea but epic rd on beo every run is insane
stone rune
i’ll just keep running pash flare that way i don’t have to care about rarity croven emoji
it seems like the sheet would be like sub445 or something right
but that number feels unclean
stone rune
and it seems nice to have unm sub7 modded sub6 hyper sub5
we can learn how to count to 9
gray apex
Could just be sub430
stone rune
Also maybe the enemies change
wavecontrol?
gray apex
So it doesn’t get flooded with runs
stone rune
Could just be sub430
that would make more sense but it also sounds scary
gray apex
wavecontrol?
No enemy control
stone rune
No enemy control
oh right
gray apex
Well yea just like sub6
raw herald
1:20 1:05 1:00 1:00 prob
raw herald
Can swap aspho and ely
stone rune
has aspho finally become longer than ely
raw herald
Maybe quicker styx
stone rune
aspho is literally worst biome
gray apex
Aspho has big variance due to rooms imo
gray apex
If you’re in without hammer you’re already screwed lol
stone rune
Aspho has big variance due to rooms imo
less chambers means less skip opportunities
sadge
gray apex
Well it’s also just that some rooms are way too big and take lots of time to travel through
/find enemies
And easy to miss midshop
stone rune
do u need to reset for hermes in tart too
also have they changed chaos conflict
i don’t think i’ve seen a single chaos/free room conflict
even in like c19 aspho 2exit
stone rune
And easy to miss midshop
this being possible sucks
also i hate that one room you can’t play music in
gray apex
do u need to reset for hermes in tart too
Nah
It helps but I don’t think it’s worth
Having Rd before lernie kinda big tho
But you can do without it
stone rune
sometimes i’m so tempted to roll over rare shots
playing with grasp is so much more comfy
gray apex
Yea it kinda is but also 
stone rune
i might just do it in c2 chaos