and the fact that theseus is also a shield guy too
#h1-discussion
radiant vale
void flicker
yes exactly
radiant vale
i destroyed him finally yo
void flicker
nice
void flicker
I prefer the one from Posseidon
mint coral
Best heroes for cast weapons? 🤔
depends the weapon you wanna do the cast build
high island
Rocket Bomb better.
radiant vale
dees nuh
native blade
glass adder
Rocket Bomb better.
Didn't have the option 😂
It was bow, did great against hades. I didn't even get a call for the fight and killed him
Ares call against hades is great, if you get them on the bottom corner and gets hit life a mafaka
high island
Didn't have the option 😂
Well, you asked Triple or Rocket. 
glass adder
Why use lucky tooth instead of acorn for hades?
I'm on Styx em4 heat 32 for first time
native blade
When you’re not confident that you can prevent enough damage to stop you from dying in the fight.
Is what I’d say.
glass adder
But 5 hits from hades is usually more than 100 hp
native blade
True, but when those five hits are done it’s up to you to last through the rest of the damage.
latent moon
Tooth is good for em4 because the adds might eat thro acorn charges
But acorn is still fine
stone rune
bball 30 dmg moment
glass adder
Lost to hades
stone rune
real em4 moments
man
how the hell does gilga do em4
does it just not take it and that's its heat limit
cause it can't get long knuckle
stone rune
hestia is like
native blade
how the hell does gilga do em4
Huh? Whaddya mean?
stone rune
other than shield hestia is the best em4 aspect
gray apex
how the hell does gilga do em4
die
stone rune
Huh? Whaddya mean?
fists take long knuckle at em4 levels heat because it just sucks to not have
gray apex
Well no, barely anyone plays high heat as a whole letalone grind probably the worst weapon at it. But some have pushed it at some point
Like Retrash and Angel
stone rune
i heard someone say
zagsword gets better at the "extremes"
heat and speed
does that like actually mean anything
my entire hades knowledge is based off of reading what other people think
i don't think i have any opinions of my own that aren't about hestia or aphrodite or chiron
native blade
Like Retrash and Angel
Angel the goat. 
gray apex
zagsword gets better at the "extremes"
I mean idk how much it would be better really. At the extremes of speedrunning I can see people resetting for RD because your damage is almost always low without it, so in that case you're always making use of its passive since you're only playing runs with RD. Other than that it's just a weaker Nemesis, and it always will be. When grinding speed at the top level sword is really skill reliant and you'll have to polish your play a lot and work on your movement more than other weps and the payoff in the end isnt even that amazing, that's mainly why not many people grind Zag sword specifically but your Nemesis skill would transition to it naturally. In terms of builds it has less options because you'll need a ton of Chaos/scaling to make your average Shackle/crit/% build work well, it'll lack damage. When it comes to high heat, it's kinda similar, very tough aspect to play, and very few build options, just more rng to grind, assuming you have the skill to handle the weapon, if anything I feel like it gets worse as heat goes up, but you can say that to just about any weapons so it's really a matter of which aspects are you comparing it to and what you consider as extremes.
latent moon
Fds zag sword is neat tho
gray apex
And execute properly, then you have a cute 35s hades split 🗿
It's great for zag sword but yknow
latent moon
It do be like that
stone rune
it's a lot harder with em4
latent moon
On the other hand, getting shafted by styx sucks
A 3 sack is doable but can be rough
latent moon
I mean it depends how much time you have stocked up
glass adder
Maybe it's better to save as much time as possible with 5 mins
That's probably worth it over other heat options
latent moon
Depends what other pacts you take yeah
If you have js, cp, or DC, it'll add time
Em4 is also a big time sink
glass adder
Have none of those
glass adder
HL 1 LC 1 cf max em4 bp 2 mm UC fo 5min
latent moon
Do you want to keep em4 or nah
If it's your first then I'd use the pact pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies
glass adder
Yes
glass adder
I check the graph these kinda seem the ones I dislike the least
Before i had 7 min with more fo
glass adder
Yeah, that's why I decided to try time, even tho I hate it 😂
latent moon
Which aspect?
stone rune
ricochet W
glass adder
Special hangover and attack artemis
stone rune
get ready for your 10s heroes fight
glass adder
If i can get the duo...
latent moon
Oh Dio special is quite the option
stone rune
on hestia without clockets you quite literally cannot reach full stacks
glass adder
Yeah, trying to get the duo, if i get cluster or 3 bombs it's pretty decent
glass adder
It's mostly for the duo
stone rune
Duo will net you like
latent moon
Well the duo is pretty mediocre
latent moon
If you wanted a duo, heart rend would've been better
Aphro special can be like a 100% boost or something
And then you crit for a lot more damage
glass adder
I could get Athena too, but this is what I got 😂
latent moon
Rare is 120%??
glass adder
How do you get crit then?
latent moon
God damn
latent moon
How do you get crit then?
You have crit on the attack
glass adder
Athena duo seems the best, but you need to deflect
latent moon
Ddash
glass adder
Already do
latent moon
Well you need Athena special to open up the duo
stone rune
test
latent moon
and yeah obv aphrodite is better but it's still not bad
just take shackle and leave it open lol
stone rune
the arty always being forced if you have over 70% atk into aspho in question:
pastel monolith
shackle gang
latent moon
the arty always being forced if you have over 70% atk into aspho in question:
idk hestia strats lmao
latent moon
just get epic aphrodite atk duh
latent moon
there isn't an official speerun ranking for aspects, but there's like a general idea
latent moon
also "best boons for each weapon" is really broad so there isn't a huge list
some speedrunning guides have a list for good boons from each god
stone rune
it's aphrodite
latent moon
but not every aspect has a speedrunning guide
stone rune
most weapons have a general guide
i think shield doesnt
but why are you not running beo if you're on shield
bow doesnt
latent moon
oh yeah there are no general guides for weapons
stone rune
spear has a spear guide
stone rune
fists has fists guide
latent moon
oh yeah fists is hella extensive
stone rune
no rail guide but eris and hestia so that's covered
glass adder
3min saved by Elysium
latent moon
gamer
stone rune
ricochet is super helpful for ely
make sure to get your enemies relatively close to each other
also are you on kbm
warm shoal
should i enter erebus gate if im speedrunning
stone rune
otherwise no
latent moon
but also melee in erebus kinda risky
warm shoal
is me good on arthur
latent moon
uh
well if you're speedrunning, arthur isn't a good choice
but tbh idk if ME is good on arthur
it's prob decent
stone rune
tbh it's probably best
warm shoal
i got sub 11 run on arthur tho so i main arthur
glass adder
Patty without needing anything with hestia, what you take? Healing? DMG?
stone rune
just dash striking
stone rune
Patty without needing anything with hestia, what you take? Healing? DMG?
well
depedns
what chamber are you in
if you're in like c30 or lower
the healing is suuuuuuper helpful if you get bad rooms
unless you're on LC4
glass adder
Hm 4th of Elysium or something
latent moon
i got sub 11 run on arthur tho so i main arthur
well a sub10 arthur is pretty doable, but if you spent more time on other aspects it could be easier
warm shoal
ye probs u right thx
latent moon
arthur needs a lot better room rng compared to other aspects
glass adder
But atta k could save HP and last to the boss
latent moon
the super slow swing times means that rooms that spawn a ton of enemies over a long time will suck more
pastel monolith
arthur plus forced overtime is a death sentence
latent moon
fo1 isn't too bad i dont think, fo2 sucks
pastel monolith
my goal is to get as comfortable with FO2 but
. i have a lot of work to do
latent moon
yeah that's fair
pastel monolith
ya just for me
stone rune
i nearly died when i tried fo on arthur
latent moon
slamming your head against speedrunning will help learning fo2 lol
stone rune
i then did 12 0 heat runs
latent moon
i used to take fo1 on rama because i suck at the timings, now i take fo2 and still suck at timings
rustic vale
I got flurry slash, I got piercing wave, but I hit common swift strike and didn’t see eury 
pastel monolith
i think i need to do a bunch of arthur runs
latent moon
pastel monolith
flurry plus cursed slash is kinda invincibility hack tho
rustic vale
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523774570394681344/979424462074167376/flu...
That’s what I want
pastel monolith
especially with some hermes attack speed
rustic vale
flurry plus cursed slash is kinda invincibility hack tho
Eh
latent moon
for lower heats it is
rustic vale
Cursed slash with flurry slash is just asking to die
You lack dps and defensive capability
pastel monolith
ive seen it look awesome but ya it was lower heat
latent moon
You lack dps and defensive capability
i mean you dont need either of those if it's low heat lol
you'll be fine
pastel monolith
with low heat anything is possible
stone rune
flursed slash when dad starts to shoot laser beams (you cannot heal):
latent moon
just hug dad
rustic vale
Yeah I was going to do cursed slasg flurry strike at 20 heat just to like prove a point that 20 heat is literally just 0 heat but enemies attack faster
rustic vale
they dont have to atk faster if you dont take fo
yeah but then my jolted damage
pastel monolith
ive been doing casual 20 heat runs for a while and i make rules for myself like no god keepsakes and must always fight charon if possible... it forces me to get used to wonky builds
latent moon
well i can't imagine why
pastel monolith
lol
rustic vale
Then keep reseting because first hammer doesn’t want to be cursed or flurry slash
latent moon
lmao sounds like a great time
rustic vale
switch gaming
pastel monolith
shackle rules for a handful of aspects but.. definitely not always
latent moon
just take SD so you reset faster
pastel monolith
i beleive u
latent moon
shackle rules for a handful of aspects but.. definitely not always
shackle zeus works for like 60 heat or something iirc lol
rustic vale
Or it might be 26 victory screens
pastel monolith
ive been wrong before lol
latent moon
you just need a good chaos buff for that high heat tho
rustic vale
And then the 24 that were at 20 heat
pastel monolith
im gona try to get higher heat records with each weapon.. i got 32 heat on each aspect which was quite an achievement for me.. but prety much never higher than that outside of hestia where i got 43
i got a 35 rama the other day tho
latent moon
50 hestia rn
pastel monolith
dang
pastel monolith
if i can get a handle on em4 with fo2, i think i can get a lot of higher heat
but so far em4 always is a bit too much for me
glass adder
5minutes to kill hades 3 deaths
latent moon
which is kinda sad but hestia is pretty pact resistant and doesn't need many boons
latent moon
5minutes to kill hades 3 deaths
easy
glass adder
Yep lost 😂
latent moon
based
rustic vale
audio delay
jazz delay
silver mica
Response time delay
stone rune
latent moon
big gaming
stone rune
no
latent moon
arty then
stone rune
ok
stone rune
i got literally god rng
latent moon
when you crit an enemy, it marks a random other enemy if there is one
stone rune
nearby
stone rune
uh
glass adder
Not that good then
latent moon
uh
yeah keep for hermes
if your first hermes isn't sprint then might as well roll for a pom level lol
what level flare rn anyways
latent moon
gone forever
latent moon
how lmao
stone rune
i think i just had the longest lernie fight ever
latent moon
what's the exit time
latent moon
lmao red on red makes it hard to find
latent moon
you'll be fine
latent moon
for ely?
stone rune
eyah
latent moon
just dont die and take hourglass
latent moon
it's hard to die in ely with beo lmao
stone rune
i haven't played ely
latent moon
unless you take a bad chaos
stone rune
well i just bought an ix
latent moon
welp
dont take -cast or -hp
or -dash
or -atk
just take a neutral one even if it doesn't buff you
latent moon
not my fault you lost all 3 dds lmao
stone rune
piss
you know how badly i wanna take this flayed defiance rn
but theres a 52 cast
is caustic bad
on beo
latent moon
caustic is bomb drop right
stone rune
yeah
stone rune
flame wheel room
latent moon
you're gonna have to actually play careful
and yeah flame wheel room suck
i'd just take whatever's safe
caustic might not be safe depending on the rooms you get
and playing safe would be a time loss lol
latent moon
what's flayed
stone rune
-special
latent moon
well could've taken that lol
latent moon
well theoretically it's neutral because you're dash striking
latent moon
what's the other options
stone rune
minotaur and empowering flight
latent moon
ngl i wouldn't take pulv blow mostly because i still mess up some times
or like sometimes i get lazy and dont dstrike
stone rune
i think min right
latent moon
well
stone rune
well
latent moon
you dont use minotaur anyways
latent moon
yeah there's no point
just dont take pulv
yeah
empowering flight is funny
could use it for like
dad adds i guess idk
when he spawns them in you can throw it and get it back before you smack dad
stone rune
505 leaving ely
latent moon
last i checked a bit ago, it was
it was like 2/3 vs 1/3 lmao
which honestly isn't surprising
stone rune
i mean
eris is really easy
you can get away with just like
specialing every so often and holding mouse1
for a good while
latent moon
have you considered an unnamed social media platform
glass adder
Pretty sure that killing Theseus first is better in em3. You can hit him easily and then just kill him when he's calling a god - with minimal risk
stone rune
and asterius gets harder when he's dead
stone rune
attack pattern change
glass adder
Still probably better than living him around being annoying
At least with rangerd weapons
Been having no issue with them, but hades at 32 h is a nightmare
Can only be the attack speed that makes me get hit way more
latent moon
Pretty sure that killing Theseus first is better in em3. You can hit him easily ...
i mean even tho he is easier to kill, the bull gets in the way a lot. chasing down theseus while the bull is running after you isn't gonna be fun or fast
killing bull first is better because he's the main threat
theseus adds in a lot of annoying area denial but you can ignore him for most of the fight
glass adder
i mean even tho he is easier to kill, the bull gets in the way a lot. chasing do...
Has been for me*shrug "
Can kill him in a few secs
Especially if you use companion at start
high island
The only time you'd aim for EM Theseus "first" is when speedrunning because you need to stay close to him to kill both around the same.
high island
Can only be the attack speed that makes me get hit way more
It's not typically recommended to take FO at 32 Heat.
glass adder
The only time you'd aim for EM Theseus "first" is when speedrunning because you ...
Well, I've been doing it and it works
He's just distracting otherwise
Summon is 1/4 of health
high island
A lot of things work, doesn't mean it's recommended.
latent moon
the issue is before that
glass adder
Leaving him alive seems like just making your life harder
latent moon
so does leaving the bull alive
glass adder
But the bull is way harder to kill
The dude stops and just runs around, you chase him, and bang him 😂
high island
You'll need at minimum 2k more hours in the game in high heat before you're convincing anybody here though to change the meta for how we do the fight.
But I mean if it works for you, keep doing it.
glass adder
You'll need at minimum 2k more hours in the game in high heat before you're conv...
Well, that's fallacious. Kinda like appeal to authority
glass adder
But I mean if it works for you, keep doing it.
I certainly will
high island
Well, that's fallacious. Kinda like appeal to authority
Lol no, that's not how that works.
latent moon
But the bull is way harder to kill
that's kinda why you kill him first isn't it
theseus is just annoying but isn't a threat
if you just keep chasing him around, you leave the threat alive and the bull can just slap you
having the bull charge you down from across the arena while you're chasing theseus doesn't sound that great of an idea
high island
they're also taking em4
Yeah, EM4 FO at 32 is just self-sabotage basically.
glass adder
Lol no, that's not how that works.
Yes it is.. you're implying that i need more time playing in order to be right
That doesn't follow logically therefore it's a fallacy
latent moon
i mean
i'd rather take advice from a player with 2k hours than 200 hours
granted the player with 200 hours might know a lot
but also 2k hours lmao
glass adder
I had many times where i was even trying to fight the bull and just ended up killing Theseus because he was just there 😂
stone rune
Yes it is.. you're implying that i need more time playing in order to be right
That's kind of how games work
glass adder
i mean
i'd rather take advice from a player with 2k hours than 200 hours
That doesn't imply that he'd be right or wrong tho, just probability
latent moon
i mean that's fine if it naturally happens, at that point you want to focus down theseus because his god call is annoying
stone rune
i mean that's fine if it naturally happens, at that point you want to focus down...
unless it's dio
latent moon
true
stone rune
zoos is awful though
latent moon
dem
stone rune
zoos special hitting through pillars like
latent moon
That doesn't imply that he'd be right or wrong tho, just probability
yeah and the probability of you being right in this instance is hella low lol
stone rune
it's like
a few years ago
when i was in
what
alg maybe
i thought i'd found a revolutionary formula that would change mathematics forever
it was not a revolutionary formula
mint coral
i mean that's fine if it naturally happens, at that point you want to focus down...
dem call on melee moment
stone rune
hestia:
glass adder
yeah and the probability of you being right in this instance is hella low lol
Still a fallacy, that's not the reason why I'd be wrong.
latent moon
tmw i chase theseus and asterius comes in with the steel chair to the back of my head
stone rune
you'd be wrong because hours generally correlate pretty well with experience and an inexperienced player is not that likely to both be right and state that information that's right
glass adder
😂
native blade
^
glass adder
No
stone rune
meta is how meta is bc of the compounded experiences of all the players who've played
glass adder
I'd be wrong if it's indeed the case that killing asterius first is right
stone rune
it's extremely unlikely for some new player to come in and shake up the meta singlehandedly
rustic vale
well
stone rune
it's a lot more likely for a new player to come in and think they've shaken up the meta singlehandedly because the devs did a good job
rustic vale
at least for a game like Hades
stone rune
I'd be wrong if it's indeed the case that killing asterius first is right
which it is
latent moon
the game doesn't get updates so the meta is pretty stabilized
glass adder
Well, it's not for me
high island
People throw around words like fallacy too much without actually understanding much of argumentation theory. 
latent moon
your personal experiences don't dictate what's right and wrong lol
glass adder
Not em3 definitely it's right to go for the bull first
glass adder
People throw around words like fallacy too much without actually understanding m...
I studied philosophy
native blade
your personal experiences don't dictate what's right and wrong lol
^’can relate lol.
rustic vale
My personal experiences do
Your personal experiences don’t
💪
glass adder
All fallacies are reduced to no sequiturs and ignoratio elenchi, i.e. doesn't follow from the premises and irrelevant to the subject.
Since it's not the fact that playing x amount of hours what determines the truth value, it's fallacious, i.e. illogical conclusion
glass adder
Yes..?
If you wanna say why x is wrong you need to say why x is wrong. not something else
latent moon
what about multiple players with a couple thousand hours each
stone rune
If you wanna say why x is wrong you need to say why x is wrong. not something el...
you whenever you need to compare anything:
glass adder
Appeal to authority
glass adder
Yes, I'd look up a good player to learn, that doesn't imply that everything they do is right
Geez
Simple logic
latent moon
so you're going to assume you're right and more experienced players are wrong
if im understanding it correctly
glass adder
According to my experience yes. Killing Theseus even by accident has been way better for me
stone rune
are you phasing him at the same time as asterius?
latent moon
but isn't the experience of one person not universal
rustic vale
Is this about which one to kill first?
stone rune
if you phase them both before killing them then yes, you should kill theseus first
rustic vale
Just kill them at the same time
stone rune
you should kill asterius before phasing theseus
rustic vale
Take out the bigger hp bar first and chip away at the smaller hp bar while on that journey
glass adder
You literally can kill Theseus or almost while he's casting the call
He has 1/4 left...
latent moon
well that part isn't in contention
stone rune
which is a lot easier to do if asterius isn't on your ass
latent moon
the issue is when he's running around in the chariot
when he's doing the call then yeah kill him while he's in it that's fine
rustic vale
especially for em3 getting the huge beyblade out of the way first is really helpful
latent moon
the issue is targeting and chasing theseus while the bull is alive
glass adder
the issue is when he's running around in the chariot
With ranged weapons you can chase him and shoot him in the back, that's what I've done 😂
He also stops and does nothing after
latent moon
i'm sure everyone can agree that if you happen to knock out theseus from the chariot before killing the bull, you target theseus
rustic vale
Since otherwise he gets in your way while chasing theseus, and also just is an issue for a whole lot longer during the fight
stone rune
With ranged weapons you can chase him and shoot him in the back, that's what I'v...
that's a lot easier to do from not-behind
from behind he can get too far away
from the side you have a much greater window
latent moon
With ranged weapons you can chase him and shoot him in the back, that's what I'v...
the issue with chasing him is the bull
esp when he charges
rustic vale
Asterius is the bigger threat of the em3 fight and taking him out first makes taking theseus out way easier too
glass adder
The reason i go for asterius first without em is because Theseus is a pain to kill and also harder. In Em3 it's the opposite
stone rune
why are you going for who you think is easier first
also theseus is not easier on em2
rustic vale
For non-em just kill them both at the same time
glass adder
To get rid of a body
high island
With ranged weapons you can chase him and shoot him in the back, that's what I'v...
that's what I've done 😂
And you're still working on your first 32 Heat.
latent moon
i mean theseus isn't hard to kill in em3 unless there's a bull chasing you the whole way
glass adder
That's a common tactic in a lot of games
rustic vale
For non-em just kill them both at the same time
Way easier to keep them in the same place with non-em
glass adder
> that's what I've done 😂
And you're still working on your first 32 Heat. <:tiz...
That's also not a good argument, but ok.
latent moon
i mean i dont think he's dying to the heroes i dont think
high island
Too much hubris for me in this discussion, I'll go do other things.
stone rune
first 32 is like benchmark for decent at the game
rustic vale
And I'd beat it easily
then do it
stone rune
what are you replacing the heat with
glass adder
I lost to hades every time 😂
rustic vale
I don’t think I could beat 40 heat even if I stopped being antimeta
stone rune
it's not that much harder than 32
stone rune
it's just like 32+hell mode+whtaever of the big 3 you're missing
high island
I think your primary issue at 40 is just motivation.
latent moon
it's just like 32+hell mode+whtaever of the big 3 you're missing
or just not hell mode lmao
stone rune
free
latent moon
it's just like fo2 hl5 ap1 js1/cf1
stone rune
oh
latent moon
so he'd have to start a new file
stone rune
see the first issue is switch
latent moon
pretty sure he doent have have a hell mode save
rustic vale
Not starting new files until I get unseen one anyways
stone rune
wow
latent moon
bruh lmao
high island
so he'd have to start a new file
Technically, can make a hell mode save on PC and then use that profile on Switch.
high island
nyaanyaa do you have unseen one
Yeah, I am not a new player anymore.
stone rune
there are other ways to get games
latent moon
yargh?
stone rune
naturally
high island
Unseen One is like a new player benchmark. If you have Unseen One, you're not super new anymore.
rustic vale
unseen one is like the benchmark for being decent at the game tbh
stone rune
yeah imo
high island
But if you started after early access, you're still new.
But not necessarily super new.
rustic vale
If you haven’t played with star shaped chaos special you are new
-someone who has never used star shaped chaos special
native blade
Lel, same.
stone rune
if you haven't beat at least 63 heat you have 1 week before your hades license gets revoked
rustic vale
if you haven't beat at least 63 heat you have 1 week before your hades license g...
65*
stone rune
luckily i got 66 under my belt a few decades back
it was on an earlier version of the game, hope it counts
native blade
if you haven't beat at least 63 heat you have 1 week before your hades license g...
Oh, cool. I’m good then.
stone rune
what's the zagspect that's highest up on the ranking of that weapon's aspects
is it zagfists
cause like
zagsword is the worst sword
zagspear is def behind achilles and gy
zagshield is behind beo and zeus
zagbow might tie depending on your opinion of hera or rama
and zagrail is the """"worst"""" rail
rustic vale
what's the zagspect that's highest up on the ranking of that weapon's aspects
Zag bow
Or wait
Do you mean the on going poll thingy
rustic vale
Oh
zag sword is 3rd or 4th
Zag spear is … 3rd or 4th idk
zag shield is 3rd
Zag bow is 3rd
Zag fists is 2nd
Zag rail is based
latent moon
Zag rail is if you wanna do ME on rail lmao
stone rune
i feel like gilga dash strikes were done so strangely
it would have made a lot more sense to go the arthur route
where they still deal more damage but they don't come out super duper fast
high island
Zag Bow is 2nd in speed and 2nd in heat. So idk if saying it's 3rd is accurate.
latent moon
Rama has a faster unmodded time than zag bow doesn't it lmao
Idrk their times modded tho
I'm pretty sure the rama time on the modded sheet is the same as unmodded lmao
Actually it's a sub6 sheet so it's technically inaccurate but also unmodded rama time is faster than modded zag bow time lol
So that would make zag bow third for speed and second for heat wouldn't it
high island
So that would make zag bow third for speed and second for heat wouldn't it
It's an indicator of relative strength, but not proof. There's more to it than just a single top time.
calm zenith
Zag bow is easier to build for than Rama and Hera
It's just a crit machine
Rama has a higher skill cap than Zag or Hera
latent moon
Hera just needs crush shot and snow burst tho
latent moon
Is this just about speedruns?
Hera build doesn't really change tbh
calm zenith
Zag bow is neat because it's really convenient
stone rune
snow burst more important probably
latent moon
Speedrunning zag bow needs more tho
calm zenith
You can do multiple hera builds
For non speedrunning
For speedrunning yeah Rama does better because you have more set elements
latent moon
You can do multiple hera builds
I mean yeah I guess but it's still not that boon intensive
stone rune
Rama has a higher skill cap than Zag or Hera
you when flurry shot:
calm zenith
If you arent resetting, Zag bow is ez to build for
So you dont need to route manipulate just like heat progressing runs
calm zenith
Rama is more hammer dependent
latent moon
I thought this was about zag vs hera
latent moon
Zag vs hera build was both are easy to do unless you're speedrunning, then zag needs more
calm zenith
Unless you're willing to kill and reset runs and stuff
latent moon
Sometimes you just dont do Crush Shot
Yeah that's fine but you don't really need more boons after that frankly
Unless you're doing parting shot
calm zenith
I guess you can always settle for a common cast, but sometimes you might just not get a cast on your first boon
And that messes up the entire run a little bet
latent moon
I mean for zag bow you might not get an attack on the first boon lol
calm zenith
True but it's actually good still without an attack boon
And you can settle for like common deadly strike
latent moon
You can just play Hera as bad zag bow, that's what people do at high heat lmao
calm zenith
Aphro is ideal usually of course
Fair
I dont do hera much anymore
I switched to Rama for whenever I try to progress heat
calm zenith
I should just do a Rama run even though I'll suck
latent moon
Based
calm zenith
I havent played in like a year besides 3 runs recently
First was Achilles which was really messy
But amazing luck
stone rune
apparently that 124 tart exit i wasnt instaphasing tis
how do you do that thing where you get loads of casts
latent moon
Load casts onto Hera and shoot them into skelly
Change weapons then quickly back to hera
I think
stone rune
no
the one where you get a bunch just like
for a run
i think it has something to do with quick reset
latent moon
Oh idk then
latent moon
I remember glancing at something that might have mentioned resetting in chaos gates screws up the mirror
stone rune
dire tendon
go nuts
latent moon
Oh I was right lmao
stone rune
alright i wanna do a run like that
dire tendon
eg. if you want a lot of stygian casts run infernal, go to chaos, reset, then swap
stygian should accept infinite now but you might wnat to blank the mirror beforehand idk
i did 44 dash gilga run
was very satisfying
stone rune
the hardest part is getting chaos 😞
latent moon
Wait what
stone rune
wait it works on other ?
latent moon
So reset in chaos, go to mirror, and then swap right?
stone rune
could you do it with fiery?
dire tendon
it lets you get infinite mirror levels
latent moon
Does it work for anything
dire tendon
it should
latent moon
Oh I see
stone rune
time for infinite hestia damage
dire tendon
for my run i didnt buff any damage mirrors because thatd be boring but it should work
latent moon
Make legacy 100%
stone rune
although 15% per would kinda be a lot of clicking.......
dire tendon
pride would have been better
latent moon
100% pride with exclusive access
dire tendon
not sure if i only had one duo open at a time or what
stone rune
so like
stone rune
dad has 9000 health per phase in p2 right
dire tendon
youd need a lot of fam favs buffs lemme tell you
latent moon
dark foresight is funny
Oops all gold laurels
dire tendon
better get an autoclicker
stone rune
i'm getting one
stone rune
youd need a lot of fam favs buffs lemme tell you
why would you family favorite
latent moon
Funny
dire tendon
damage
stone rune
simply fiery presence imo
latent moon
That's not global
stone rune
oh wait
latent moon
Ff is global boost lol
latent moon
Oh the idea is to one shot from spawn
latent moon
That's gotta be a fat multiplier tho
stone rune
yeah he'd invuln
latent moon
Oh also true
stone rune
would need to be rama
dire tendon
just stack the cast damage modifier or like
fam favs
easy enough
use maxed file for darkness
it eats a lot
dire tendon
no
latent moon
Oh neat
dire tendon
but its still expensive as hell
latent moon
Yeah but could be worse
latent moon
Something like that
rustic vale
when i press the button it spends darkness but doesnt do anything
That’s called purchasing Fated Authority
stone rune
stone rune
i cant keep straight all the gods im supposed to be happy to see in tart
i was on hestia and saw athena and was like "omg ME time" because my mind broke
muted glen
Lmao fair
latent moon
MEstia
stone rune
the only thing it's very synergy good with is hangover
it also is taken on passion beo
and probably like
other stuff
but hangover is the big one
because you take weak to get low tolerance
muted glen
Its great lmao
muted glen
What happened
stone rune
muted glen
Thats a good run is it not
radiant vale
<#725021639506526249>
bro's mad that his non-fav weapon is being better than he thought
a moment to 💀 at
radiant vale
ok
muted glen
💀
stone rune
oh ur actually
ok
uh
what aspect r u on
?
well uh
if you’re melee then have fun ig
radiant vale
what aspect r u on
meme sis
radiant vale
if you’re melee then have fun ig
aww frick
radiant vale
don’t be greedy
i can stall out
stone rune
don’t overextend because you think you might get a hit in
radiant vale
maybe go all out for a second, then dodge, wait for another second or some
i have 300 hp but i'm outta defiances
stone rune
make a practice save
before you go into the fight fully
@high island do u have that practice save guide
radiant vale
before you go into the fight fully
if i get low hp can i quit and redo
stone rune
if i get low hp can i quit and redo
you cant quit out if you get hit
radiant vale
you cant quit out if you get hit
annoying ;-;
radiant vale
let me see if i can find that guide
what is your pfp
radiant vale
why is it so susy
stone rune
should be probably
stone rune
maybe the file location is different
stone rune
imma quit back ig
what
stone rune
wdym
radiant vale
question: how do i backup the sav files
stone rune
copy and put in another folder
radiant vale
copy and put in another folder
ok
glass adder
Em4 heat 32 done
high island
Time to do 40.
radiant vale
prom hub
void flicker
what is the aspect on bow?
void flicker
for example the aspect of hera
void flicker
Every weapon has 4 weapon aspects.
yeah, so which of the 4 aspects is best to use on the bow
void flicker
sorry i forget to type "best"
high island
yeah, so which of the 4 aspects is best to use on the bow
My Newbie Aspect Leveling Guide is pinned in #h1-for-new-players if you're not sure what to unlock or upgrade. 
void flicker
void flicker
My Newbie Aspect Leveling Guide is pinned in <#725021347968712724> if you're not...
thanks!
rustic vale
Hera is best for speed, rama better for high heat, zag bow 3rd and chiron 4th
void flicker
ok thanks
high island
Hera is best for speed, rama better for high heat, zag bow 3rd and chiron 4th
Zag Bow 2nd best for both speed and heat though. 
rustic vale
Hmm
But does that put it over rama or hera
which are first in their respective categories
high island
It puts it at 2nd place in each category.
high island
A combined ranking doesn't make sense anyway because there's no way to objectively weight speed vs high heat.
high island
You can do it if like in the case of shield, Beowulf dominates speedruns and also high heat all the way up to 60ish. That makes more sense to say it's the best.
high island
Is chiron anything other then 4th in either category?
Probably the lowest skill floor to get wins, if you include builds in that.
rustic vale
🤔
high island
All the way up to at least 32.
rustic vale
So heat:
Rama, zag, hera, chiron
Speed:
Hera, zag, rama, chiron
Skill floor:
Chiron, zag bow?, rama?, hera?
radiant vale
died to hades. first time ever too. crushed my excitedness
high island
Not sure if Chiron or Rama is worse at speed. They're both not popular for that.
high island
Skill floor:
Chiron, zag bow?, rama?, hera?
Chiron > Rama > Hera > Zag Bow maybe.
Rama you can still just hold down Special and win with Thunder Flourish in the 40s lol.
rustic vale
Looks like Rama
Just looking at any heat
Far more rama runs plus rama is 49s faster (for unseeded unmodded)
Rama also faster unseeded modded and more popular
No seeded runs for either of aspects
high island
Far more rama runs plus rama is 49s faster (for unseeded unmodded)
Unseeded unmodded is practically all from over a year ago.
rustic vale
But when they were actively being ran Rama was superior
Also Rama unmodded is faster then Rama modded 
high island
Unseeded modded is where you see most new runs nowadays, and they're both pretty close in that.
rustic vale
Dang zag sword is really popular for fresh file
high island
And even then it's only 8 players for Chiron and 13 for Rama.
rustic vale
Fair but based on existing statistics
radiant vale
file editing is fun (shame i suck at it and i can't do it)
rustic vale
Rama is superior by a margin
high island
Based on the data we have, it's inconclusive. 
You can't just disregard the limitations and draw conclusions.
rustic vale
high island
file editing is fun (shame i suck at it and i can't do it)
There's a Hades Modding discord pinned in #self-promotion if you're interested in meddling with game files.
rustic vale
Hera, zag bow, rama <-> chiron
Heat:
Rama, Zag, Hera, Chiron
Speed:
Hera, Zag, Rama <-> Chiron
Build Skill Floor:
Chiron, Rama, Hera, Zag bow
Good?
high island
Probably.
Even if people will do Hera builds that make not much sense like Hunting Blades, at least they're getting carried by the Cast either way.
Unlike Zag Bow.
high island
Hera doesn't need power shots for DPS near as much as Zag Bow does.
fair basalt
which weapon is the best?