off-topic-discussion

[rugged perch]

stroads suck

[vocal yoke]

But basically cities where pedestrian activity is heavily discouraged by long times for green light to cross for peds like the 10 min crosswalk in LA, important places being far away, small walks for peds, little to not pedestrian only areas, etc.

[rugged perch]

cities designed with cars in mind instead of people

[noble summit]

There’s 4 regions in Hades right?

[mossy trail]

that's weird, all cities I've ever been to are either large enough to have most stuff you ever need in large quantities sprinkled throughout the city so everything is close or are small enough for the distance to everything be small, although I guess an exclusion would be some areas in non central district sochi because some have just very little people but there's still very little time of walking to the nearest concentration of uhh stuff idk how to call it like various stores, clinics, etc

[muted smelt]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/zoning-housing-affordability-nimby-parking-houston/661289/

[mossy trail]

I guess maybe USA is rich enough for most people to have a car so such cities would make sense economically but here not very much people have cars so I haven't seen such cities

[mossy trail]

cancel cars, make more trains

[rugged perch]

it's not about the USA being rich

car and oil lobbies

cars within cities don't make much sense anywhere

cars are better for outside the city

[rugged perch]

yes

[mossy trail]

If usa wasn't rich then people wouldn't be able to buy those cars, they are however not rich in context of usa, just comparing to russia, so probably it would be better to say cars being cheap in context of usa, I'm guessing unlike most things cars don't cost as much more in usa than in russia

[mossy trail]

cars don't make sense at all

[rugged perch]

cars in the usa aren't cheap either but gas is cheaper there.
people in the US are bound to cars whether they want it or not for various reasons, e.g. because during the second half of last century the US planning decided to bulldoze most of its rail infrastructure in favour of car infrastructure

in many places in the US the mass transport is terrible and unreliable, or plain non-existent. so people have to have cars in order to just be able to go to work. because everything is designed around the usage of cars

and bicycles? what are those even, lol

here's a video with more info on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REni8Oi1QJQ

good channel altogether in case you're interested in sustainable urban planning, that is to say, urban planning not focused on cars but on people

[mossy trail]

I googled and counted and average car cost in usa is about 1.75 times higher than in russia while average salary in usa is about 9.32 times higher than in russia so it's about 5.32 times cheaper in relation to income to buy a car in usa than in russia so I was right in that regard

gasoline price in usa is 1.76 times higher than in russia so basically the same relation as cars, I'm actually surprised it's that close

[rugged perch]

there are other factors than just price of product and salary that affect the purchase of a given product, but yes, it's unsurprising that by the simple metric you used it's easier to buy a car in the US than in Russia

[mossy trail]

it's not necessarily the reason for cities to be designed for cars though, could be it's the other way around, if everybody needs cars you're probably gonna lower the prices on them because the demand is so high

[rugged perch]

it's not how US economy works

[mossy trail]

well, I don't know how usa economy works, all above is guesses

[rugged perch]

high demand doesn't lead to lowering of prices, especially not in the USA

in practice, that is

[serene tulip]

the US requires cars because the auto industry spent a butt-load of money and time basically building cars into the US infrastructure

[muted smelt]

beside the auto industry other rich people bought all these lands. paid for the parking lots. theyre gonna resist reforms

[mossy trail]

so then the reason for cars costing less in usa is what

[serene tulip]

Also, eisenhower wanted a distributed road network that was capable of moving around the mobile ICBM launchers of the day rather rapidly

[rugged perch]

the reason for US cities to be designed around cars nowadays is a combination of car manufacturers and oil companies' lobbying, culturally ingrained perception of the car as a symbol of status, personal freedom and individualism, and lack of knowledge on other alternatives and how they function, to name just a few

ah, oceloctopus woke up so you get an actual american perspective

[serene tulip]

woke up is perhaps a bit of a stretch

I'm still waking up

[rugged perch]

☕

[serene tulip]

[rugged perch]

or some other energizing drink

[rugged perch]

complicated

[mossy trail]

like warm milk

[rugged perch]

that puts you to sleep

doesn't wake you up

[serene tulip]

like, you gotta understand that nearly every city in the US had trams and cable cars but they were bought out or deliberately sabotaged by the auto industry to make way for cars

[mossy trail]

yeah and sleep restores energy

[rugged perch]

you've got a point, i guess

[serene tulip]

even busses, as a mode of transit were discouraged because the folks with influence didn't want the lower classes to have access to their parts of the city

[mossy trail]

trams are so amazing

[serene tulip]

and by lower classes it was overwhelmingly meant black people

[mossy trail]

big thing in russian culture

[serene tulip]

so you have to understand that the US infrastructure was almost entirely built around racism

[mossy trail]

well, saint petersburg at least

[serene tulip]

which given the impact its had, particularly when you consider leaded gasoline, is almost poetic amounts of schadenfreude

the US is literally killing itself to screw over black people

[mossy trail]

average usa history moment :(

[mossy trail]

leaded gasoline was one of the most iconic "capitalism trying to kill humanity" moments ngl

[rugged perch]

love that story about the bridge that was deliberately built too low so that buses full of black undesriable folks couldn't get to the "nice" parts of town

classic use of architecture and planning to keep zee minorities at bay

[serene tulip]

You might have two points to my statements so far, "Wait, where did they build the interstates? How did they get that land to build giant roads into the city" and "Wait, can't black people just buy cars, how is this infrastructure racist" well I'm glad this hypothetical person asked because I've been dying to point out that they built the interstate through traditionally black neighborhoods, disrupting those environments even further

[mossy trail]

what's an interstate

[serene tulip]

big roads

eisenhower interstate network

big roads for going fast

[mossy trail]

ah so just a highway?

or idk if it's called a highway

[serene tulip]

eh, yes

kinda

[mossy trail]

ah I found how's it called in english

chaussee

[rugged perch]

uhm

[serene tulip]

Shhhh

[rugged perch]

yeah, no

[serene tulip]

http://www.dariaroithmayr.com/pdfs/assignments/Coates, The Case for Reparations.pdf

If you want to know just how hilariously bad the US has been about spiting black folks that article is my favorite starting place

[rugged perch]

the kind of hilarious that makes me cry tears of happy rage

[mossy trail]

why what how

[rugged perch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaussee

[serene tulip]

One of my favorite parts of all this is that a lot of foreigners who otherwise wouldn't be exposed to american black people are Super racist against them literally because they've only internalized the media made for white folks, which has, historically, not been that favorable

and by favorite parts I mean I hate the world

[mossy trail]

In Eastern Europe and the post Soviet states it remains a generic term for a common paved highway outside of built-up areas, but they may transition into prospekts within towns and cities.

That's how we call it here so I used it as a comparison, I didn't know it wasn't used in other parts of the world tho

[serene tulip]

that gangster rap that everyone likes to point at? Until recently almost overwhelmingly produced by white people(record labels) for white people(suburbanites who want to feel masculine)

I'm going off on a tangent here

someone stop me

[rugged perch]

well, i wouldn't call interstates chaussees, it doesn't match well by the definitions described

they're more like huge major highways

[rugged perch]

(good tangent though)

[mossy trail]

Well, that's exactly what chaussees are here, unless I'm underestimating the scale, because the interstates could be bigger than chaussees because while russia is way bigger railroad is very developed here

[serene tulip]

muffled speaking as if through a poorly applied gag
And the worst part is that racism as a concept is dumb, like, we all know white people who were dumber than bricks and we all know black people who are smart as hell there is no functional reason for this prejudice to exi--gets dragged off stage

[rugged perch]

used to be very developed in the USA too... i recommend watching that video i linked, they show a map there of what it used to be like

[mossy trail]

Yeah I saw those maps before

[serene tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/farnsworth-futurama-gif-5319799

[mossy trail]

I wanna live on this planet anymore just not in the top 10 fascist tierlist country

[serene tulip]

CW: Bleak Doomerism: ||Nowhere is safe from fascism. As climate change heightens environmental stress, its going to stress our communities and societies as they suffer from things like crop failures, overfishing, oceanic acidification, and importantly, climate refugees from places hit harder by these things. This social stress is going to bolster folks prone to circling the wagons, and fascism thrives in a famine mindset because its easy to pit populations against each other rather than asking for sacrifice. Without a drastic change we're just speedrunning the decline to a few walled city eco-fascist city-states||

||my hope is currently pinned on the current batch of fascists being just so hilariously dumb and full of hubris that folks finally awaken to the concept being unstable as a whole and we throw it into the same bin we put the divine right of kings or the shaman/chieftan dynamic||

||also, this is why Nona the Ninth has been particularly.... good reading? for me? because(the following is nona the 9th spoilers)|| ||because a good part of the john subplot of that book is "is it OK to kill everything if it means the eco-fascists also die" and it turns out that's a really complicated discussion||

[mossy trail]

Nowhere is safe is true but I at least want a place where it's not illegal to be myself a place where people don't get arrested for simply being in an area a where a protest is held a place where I can transition quickly and easily a place doesn't doesn't regularly wage wars for no reason a place without an omnipotent propaganda machine and the fact that such a place is literally a hundred kilometers away yet unreachable is very unpleasant

[serene tulip]

I think you're missing my point but I don't want to think about my point so I'm not going to go into it

[mossy trail]

Well there's a not very popular very important philosophical concept "killing is always bad" which is a part of one kind of my personal views

[rugged perch]

... yeah, it got dark in here

[mossy trail]

Well yeah cuz I'm not really engaging with it I guess

[serene tulip]

"killing is always bad" really depends on your definition of killing, as seen with the whole trolly problem thing

[rugged perch]

https://tenor.com/view/train-drift-multitrack-gif-8790057

[mossy trail]

House grid short circuited apparently😔

[mossy trail]

That's why I got multiple kinds of personal philosophies for different cases

[grave sand]

deja vu

[mossy trail]

Running in the nineties

[mild pelican]

i miss russia of late 00s
dollar around 30-35 rubles, average salary around 600-1000 dollars
people buying houses, cars, going to the other countries for vacations every couple seasons

science, nanotech, Steve Jobs going to Moscow for giving Medvedev new iPhone personaly

artists, movie stars, musicians.. come from time to time

cultured tv shows after 22 a.m.. it's allowed to make jokes about politicians, having opinion

be yourself

high school just ended, university life

everything is in the future

everything...

now everything is in the memories of a views of future days

[doomer.jpg]

[mossy trail]

My parents having a kid and marrying despite not loving eachother

[mild pelican]

yeah..

relatable, except for late 80s

[rugged perch]

https://memes.ucoz.com/_nw/16/46238262.jpg

[mild pelican]

im using light discord theme

does that count?

[rugged perch]

it counts as blasphemy

[mossy trail]

Light discord theme looks very nice and clean but it hurts

[mossy trail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/827190621218668605/1128381851552190595/heart-locket.gif

[sick thistle]

Beat Hades deciding between Isaac or Cult of the Lamb

[muted smelt]

isaac is worth a million runs but cult of lamb i feel done after one playthrough

[grave sand]

Cult had a pretty big update few months back

considering endgame mostly, as there was barely any after you were done with the story

there is now more to do

but still at a certain point you'll be kinda done with everything, definetly less runs than Hades

haven't played isaac so can't say

[sick thistle]

ah ok thanks. Was looking also at Children of Morta and Moonlighter @muted smelt @grave sand

[fast marlin]

i am incredibly brave (talked to a single person in order to gate check my guitar)

also hey yall

[serene tulip]

So stronk!

[mossy trail]

applause for the champion

[bronze lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/clapping-hands-clap-gif-14280267

[vocal yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1124812060400828438/1128720248242184312/peach.mp4

[muted smelt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/109643329238482944/1128722506723893248/IMG_6113.jpg

10 dollars instant noodles mmm

@bronze lintel

[serene tulip]

I need a little crochet bag

to hold crochet stuff for travel

but it can't be crocheted

[dusty rover]

aww why not

[serene tulip]

because the crochet supplies would all fall out!

specifically the tiny bits

[dusty rover]

lining?

[serene tulip]

but then I'd have to learn more than crochet

[rugged perch]

well, lining for a simple rectangular bag is very easy

cut two rectangles of cloth

sew 3 of the 4 sides

invert

put in crochetted rectangular bag and sew to the opening

[muted smelt]

instructions unclear.
made a spaceship

[rugged perch]

plz make more crochet supplies bags

[serene tulip]

I need to take up embroidery now too

to make the bag I truly want

[blissful charm]

i've started doing bead embroidery, it's a lot of fun

[tardy mesa]

Turkish Not supported
İngilizce ✔ ✔ ✔
Fransızca ✔ ✔
İtalyanca ✔ ✔
Almanca ✔ ✔
Kastilya İspanyolcası ✔ ✔
Lehçe ✔ ✔
Brezilya Portekizcesi ✔ ✔
Rusça ✔ ✔
Japonca ✔ ✔
Basitleştirilmiş Çince ✔ ✔

[dull flume]

I love going to the zoo

[magic spear]

Trying to get a consensus on something, how often do guys use your phones a day? Like on avg

[bronze lintel]

there's a franchise that sell like Indomie with cheese for "cheap"

the markup's like 5 times I think from base cost

[muted smelt]

why do specialty coffee when you can do specialty instant noodles

[bronze lintel]

because I'd die while R&D?

I'm an anomaly in my friend group

if I eat one indomie a day, I'd get sick at the 5th day

[mild pelican]

once or twice a month

for calls, that is

[rugged perch]

if you're talking about using them as actual phones for calls, then similarly to Volus i use it 1-2 times (and it's usually to answer the food delivery)

[mossy trail]

Goood morning night city

I literally never use my phone for calls

[rugged perch]

i myself barely ever call

and it's just for stuff like appointments

but i get called once or thrice a month

[mossy trail]

I get called several times a month
By unknown numbers and I don't answer unknown numbers
Probably ads

[sharp grail]

I almost never text - and I only call family members unless I need to make an appointment somewhere or answer for a delivery

But otherwise I use my phone a lot for discord and such

I check it almost involuntarily haha

[hexed hollow]

That's a mood

[sharp grail]

I’m on discord mobile as we speak bc it’s comfortable to check from bed or otherwise away from PC

[rugged perch]

well, i think the question was about calls, otherwise yeah, doomscrolling and chatting on messaging apps is a daily routine

[bronze lintel]

could also be landline phones

[muted smelt]

could be referring to megaphones

[mossy trail]

If there are megaphones then what does a kilophone look like

[bronze lintel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/817270982191874081/1128999807734788176/Screenshot_20230713-174122_Chrome.jpg

I read the description twice

No idea what the hell that is

[mossy trail]

[muted smelt]

i think it says blunt instrument

[bronze lintel]

Hammer is a blunt instrument

[muted smelt]

thats a cool toy but its no match for kurkkumopo

[bronze lintel]

I googled

And

https://tenor.com/view/cat-what-que-recalculando-loading-gif-19097337

[vast kindle]

Oh I think Im in wrong discussion sry

[muted smelt]

yeah people here dont know hades stuff

[muted smelt]

youre welcome

[bronze lintel]

...I was about to answer

[tardy mesa]

Why don't you release Turkish language support?

[vital ingot]

its been 3 years its just not going to happen

[tardy mesa]

Some turkish players are still buying this game

[rugged perch]

and will continue to buy it... without turkish localisation

[tardy mesa]

not cool

[rugged perch]

translating a game in every language that exists on Earth is unrealistic and unnecessary, for the most part

[tardy mesa]

The game has been translated into 11 languages, but not only for Turkey. Is it laziness?

[rugged perch]

no, it's cost-benefit analysis that has lead to the conclusion that it's not necessary for Turkey

either because the market is small, or the demand is low

[sharp grail]

In case you haven’t seen hades 2 is being translated into turkish

[tardy mesa]

i saw it

[rugged perch]

well, then they decided it's worth it

and i don't see why you keep complaining about it

[tardy mesa]

Because there is no Turkish translation in first game, that means I'll be out of the story.

for second game

but i see

[rugged perch]

Hades helped the studio become much bigger, which lead to access to more resources, so they are now expanding the language list for Hades 2, as you can see

[tardy mesa]

i understand that

[rugged perch]

well, it's definitely not laziness that Hades 1 doesn't have turkish localization, in any case

as i mentioned earlier, it was probably not within their goals either because there was no demand (possibly not true since they're adding it to Hades 2), or because they didn't have the resources for it (more likely)

[tardy mesa]

i understand what you says

Simplified Chinese? come on dude :D

[remote plover]

I don't think most AAA games have as much translation as Hades does. Language translation requires people on the team to either know the language or outsource it to others

[tardy mesa]

I don't think it would cost much for Supergiant to have other people translate the language. I think they were in a position to handle it.

[remote plover]

Maybe, we can't really know either way

[mossy trail]

well you don't think it would cost much but based on what information do you think that

[tardy mesa]

Right but what I'm writing now won't change anything. So I think there is no need to talk about it.

[rugged perch]

indeed

[vocal yoke]

i swear entire nations are invading video game communities begging for translations

i swear it's either chinese players or turkish players nothing else

Like I get it but the scarcity of such translations should make you have a pretty basic understanding of english, the lingua franca of today's times

[serene tulip]

For just the text, I'm getting figures ranging from $25000-100000

Apparently QA is the biggest cost and can range to the half a million area

[muted smelt]

look at the fansubbing scene doing it for free
wonder if the scene is still alive

[earnest cargo]

How familiar should I be with the original game or Greek myth to enjoy this one?
You don't need to know anything about the original game or Greek myth to enjoy Hades II (though it is filled with connections to both).

From #hades2-faq

Also, I get your point, but seeing you talk in here, I'd say your English comprehension is good enough to understand most, if not all, of what is going on.

[rugged perch]

they might be using gtranslate for here

[mossy trail]

Seems too coherent for google translate

[rugged perch]

google translate can be very good if you give it good input and enough context

and if the language has enough users to train it properly

[mossy trail]

Never seen google translate to be good

[rugged perch]

then i don't think you've used it well enough

[mossy trail]

There isn't anything to use it for for me so I didn't really have to learn how to use it

So yeah

[rugged perch]

i use it almost daily for 9 languages, so in my experience it does pretty well under the conditions i listed earlier (and yes, native speakers check the results afterwards)

[tardy mesa]

Thank you all for this lovely conversation. I hope I have been able to explain my problem to you. Yes, you are right, English is now a world language and we need to keep up with this situation. I have enough english to express myself properly. But I don't think it's enough. When I have difficulty, I don't hesitate to use translation, like now.

😋

[vocal yoke]

boy do i love alienating people by overanalysing everything

[mossy trail]

my favourite activity

[mossy trail]

Why is puberty forced onto people

Seems not very ethical

[vocal yoke]

I keep getting russian tiktoks related to Drive (2011) Im scared

[mild pelican]

he didn't die in the end of drive!!

[vocal yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778518436828807181/1129542092213985310/ssstik.io_1689374014645.mp4

[mossy trail]

You're being recruited into "literally me" mafia, beware

[vocal yoke]

I saw the cast of Barbie 2023 and I saw that Ken is played by me

I once saw this film Drive 2011 and it's played by a mirror!

[mild pelican]

don't even make me start about Blade runner 2049..

it's a quote from life

[mossy trail]

I love these dub actor announcers so much

[stable comet]

Aww, sad news for CR fans
https://gamerant.com/critical-role-youtube-videos-brian-wayne-foster-removed/

[sharp grail]

It’s sad that it’s inaccessible but I completely get it, and watching anything with him in it would leave a bitter taste in my mouth now either way

at the end of the day I already watched all of this content anyway and was likely not going to rewatch it so maybe that’s part of the reason I won’t cry over it

[dry stratus]

Oof would anyone be able to link anything to help me catch up to speed?

I'm so behind and new to CR

[serene tulip]

Just start with c2 anyways

Jester is best gorl

[remote plover]

I liked campaign 1 better than either 2 or 3, but I get the need for them to do that

[stable comet]

There are plenty of options of where to start. the beginning of Campaign 2 is the most common for newer people.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1tiwbzkOjQxD0jjAE7PsWoaCrs0EkBH2
But others are:
-start of C3 since it's more recent
-very beginning of C1 although they had technically already started it before they started streaming
-the start of "the briarwood arc" after watching the animated series

There are even two good (and one that I don't call good) Fan Made musicals that cover big chunks of C1 by covering Hamilton and Dr Horrible's sing along blog

[dry stratus]

Thank u ;;

Admittedly I was referring to what the above comments were referring to, but that's okay. I can go look stuff up myself lmao

[sharp grail]

I think it says a bit about it in the article but the TLDR is that brian wayne foster who dated (or even was engaged or married to) ashley jonson left CR a while ago despite hosting and being in a lot of their shows, and it turns out it’s because he was very abusive towards her to the point she got a restraining order against him

so they decided to scrub the channel of most if not all of the content he’s in (which is A Lot of things since there is a lot of cr)

[charred nacelle]

Hades II.

[grave sand]

this isn't google

[latent lodge]

ey b0ss

[wheat tangle]

Helloo

[dry stratus]

Thanks Alma... That sucks. Thankfully there's content without him though

[tall owl]

Hades II

[bronze lintel]

out of curiosity

I wonder if SGG at least joke about naming it I-Iades

cause you know

I is roman one

there's two of them

and

uh...

I feel like it's more stupid than funny the more I explain

[grave sand]

keep going

[tall owl]

yeah i dont understand it yet

[muted smelt]

thanks fluffy

[vocal yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1124339541910765629/1129760565431119903/SaveInsta.App_-_3147404507745536894.mp4

ryan goslink

filmje: draif

[tall owl]

i'm literally him

[grave sand]

that lidl tho

[vocal yoke]

Lidl my beloved

[velvet terrace]

Hi everyone

[feral chasm]

Hades II

[grave sand]

Hades 11

[mild pelican]

Hades LL

[muted smelt]

Hades二

[rugged perch]

hades=

[serene tulip]

Hadeez ||🔩🔩||

[grave sand]

Hades !!

[serene tulip]

Hades ℂℂ

[mild pelican]

Hades П

[mossy trail]

Hades Ц

[mild pelican]

Hades ║

[mossy trail]

Does anyone know why the food gets wet in the microwave

[grave sand]

because the water inside the food basically turns to steam

[mossy trail]

So the inside of it must be drying out then?

Added jalapenos to my soup, about to find out if it was a good idea or not

[grave sand]

microwave works by vibrating water molecules in food, which heats up the food, so that's by design

so yeah if you had it on long enough it would dry it out

but the air inside the microwave is normal temperature, so that steam cools down and turns to water again, that's why it's wet

[mossy trail]

It's uhh very spicy

[mossy trail]

I wonder if there's some way to catch that water, like it rises some distance at least so maybe it's possible to have a slanted sticky for water surface there maybe so that steam would instead gather onto it and run down instead of just falling

[mossy trail]

Almost too spicy

[grave sand]

you can get covers for the food that have like a vent in them that you can open or close to let the steam out so that when it condenses it falls on the cover

but it's obviously not foolproof as a lot of the steam will stay under the cover and condense back

[stable comet]

Oh, I didn't realize since it explains the whole story in the link I had posted

[slender meadow]

<@&456908176877551658>, user hannah_zoey, ID 868421994989899856, is a bot in this server DMing people

typical "im a starving artist please commission me for xyz" scam

[buoyant frigate]

if you could DM me a screenshot of the interaction that would be great. thanks for bringing this up!

[slender meadow]

sure thing

have done

[buoyant frigate]

tis done 👍

Real artists looking for commissions are welcome to list their prices and samples in #self-promotion

[vocal yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1116046423088185375/1130031314146447410/VID_20230716_100024_853.mp4

not the usual thing to post but

Mike Pence gets hit by a water balloon

Insanely satisfying warning

[rugged perch]

afaik it was found out that it's not mike pence

and it's just some parade where throwing water balloons at people is part of it

[vocal yoke]

bruh

why am i so gullible D:

Im just gonna take the L

it would have been literal poetic justice if it actually happened due to his recent mask off moment

[bronze lintel]

So

my mom baked cookies

and she... made a mistake

which is understandable, this is her first time

I'm gonna share the mistake, not to shame her, but to show what would happen if you overcook cookies

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/193414868760657920/1130053228189454426/20230716_152555.mp4

...and yes that's a bite mark

[rugged perch]

you've got strong teeth

your mom has baked dwarven cookies

[muted smelt]

hey whens the last time you got cookies with great acoustics

[bronze lintel]

eventually I got some hot milk and dunked it to that

I've been thinking how to repurpose it

maybe crush them and sprinkle it onto some ice creams

[muted smelt]

blend it in shake

[rugged perch]

yeah, i used crushed old cookies for an under layer in sweet pies, just under the filling

it keeps the dough from getting mushy

and they soak the filling

[muted smelt]

wear them as necklace

[bronze lintel]

I don't want ants on my neck

[muted smelt]

keep it in case you need projectile weapon

[rugged perch]

https://tenor.com/view/haku-naruto-zabuza-momochi-senbon-gif-25195218

[bronze lintel]

"Excuse me, the coffee's too bitter..."
COOKIE STAR

[muted smelt]

sneak them into prison and you can carve cell keys out of em

[stable comet]

@sharp grail so am I not allowed to share my art in the art channel? Looking for clarification

Just feels similar to when I was told "video games can't be art, they didn't draw any of that the computer did"

[forest basalt]

tahts the same logic as "the painter didnt paint it the canvas did"

huh

[sharp grail]

sure, just please state that it is AI generated and not something you drew yourself. and again, dont deliberately start or contribute to arguments - it is a very controversial topic as i am sure you know and some people are bound to disagree with sharing it in such a channel for hand-drawn pieces

[mossy trail]

crediting the artist is very important and in case of ai art the artist is ai so credit the ai or it will feel sad

[stable comet]

Wow
#art message
"Stated as generations"
#art message criticism
#art message
Conflict

[rugged perch]

"generations" isn't clear enough for most people

[sharp grail]

i do think its silly to say that about video games when most if not all assets in video games are handmade 😉

as i said it is a very controversial topic and some people would get upset about it or have a strong stance opposite of yours about AI art - but doubling down is not the way to solve any conflict

[stable comet]

I'm sorry I don't understand what your saying here. It sounds like "when someone is upset by your opinion, you shouldn't keep having that option"

[mossy trail]

this message is incomprehensible, try talking

[sharp grail]

having discussions is fine, but please keep the other person in mind when talking and dont be rude for no reason

[rugged perch]

several people have already stated distaste for you posting AI art @stable comet , the polite thing to do is to stop aggravating people

[forest basalt]

its essentially theft, its no different then just going to someones twitter, taking a screenshot and saying you made it

instead the ai is stealing from thousands of people twitter accounts

[stable comet]

Sure 🙂 I was told to make sure I wasn't saying they're my hand drawings (link 1) and to not deliberately start conflict, so I linked where I wasn't starting conflict but others were

[forest basalt]

just so you can make your phone wallpaper

[sharp grail]

that is not what i meant, it just seemed to me that in response to people being upset about AI art, you posted more to get a reaction. its being inflammatory on purpose and what i meant by "doubling down"

[dry stratus]

🤨

[stable comet]

So a person doesn't like my art then I shouldn't post more of it? That seems... Odd

[rugged perch]

5+ people have already said they don't like your "art"

so yeah, if you're just inflaming the community, might as well look for another place to post your "art"

[zenith olive]

theyre still going ? 😭

[forest basalt]

ur missing the point. its not about not liking your art. we dont think its your art... at all

[dry stratus]

Like I can't imagine caring so much about something so simply made

[stable comet]

Simply made? I put a lot of effort and work into what I make

[zenith olive]

You put in a prompt, press some buttons and get an image

That is not effort

[serene tulip]

there is some fun effort that goes into prompt crafting

[zenith olive]

Fair

[stable comet]

It is waaaaay more than that

[zenith olive]

Oh really

[serene tulip]

https://pitch.com/v/DALL-E-prompt-book-v1-tmd33y

[zenith olive]

Enlighten me then,

[stable comet]

What words to where, which of the generations has the right features, which source images,

[serene tulip]

for the record, darc, don't mistake me defending ai art as me defending you.

[stable comet]

Plus everyone knows the "dreaded ai hands" it's hours of work to get those right without ruining other features

[dry stratus]

Darc, have you watched an artist (digital, traditional) make their craft before? For some digital artists, it takes them over 24, 48 hours to make their final product. I won't engage further- you've revealed all I needed to know.

[stable comet]

Yep. Art is expression. 🙂

[zenith olive]

The art of mine that you replied to earlier, for example, took me well over a day.

[serene tulip]

art can be viewed from several lenses. some of the biggest ones are meaning and mechanical. AI art frequently has neither.

[zenith olive]

also kinda odd you went digging for art i posted 🤨

[mossy trail]

while my stance on definition of art is a mix of "art is mastery of something" and "art is expression of something for not necessarily practical reasons" and ai art doesn't fit my definition of art other people may have other definitions of art that ai art does fall in so it's not really relevant and I stated it for really no reason just because I could so getting to my point: ai art is made by ai, so if you don't credit the exact ai you gave a prompt to and refer to ai art in form anything close to "this is my art" you are stealing that ai art firstly from the ai secondly from the artist the ai was trained on and thirdly the programmers and doing plagiarism and iirc that's not allowed here

[serene tulip]

art has no definition >:|

art defines itself

[mossy trail]

well, that's your definition of art

[stable comet]

I checked the art of everyone who had a strong reaction 🙂

[zenith olive]

Still odd ngl

[rugged perch]

it's about the same effort as learning how to use search engines properly. it requires some skill but the search engine does the actual work of producing the result, not the person typing the search words

[serene tulip]

I found some metal scrap that had been thrown away once and thought it was pretty so I took it out of the trash and put it on my shelf. It took literally no effort.

Its still beautiful to me

[forest basalt]

keep ai out of creative expression lol. ai cant and will never make anything unique, its completely built off of the back of others and their work

[mossy trail]

the art of googling

[serene tulip]

@forest basalt that's a slippery slope to No one makes anything unique, which is actually a half defensible philosophical position to take but I just want to make sure you know where you're going

[rugged perch]

ain't no art yet though

[stable comet]

Ah ok that makes a bit of sense, My creations are made with Midjourney and the license I have through them says I own my generations

[forest basalt]

inspiration isnt theft imo

[serene tulip]

I will actually fight you

[forest basalt]

ai crosses the line of theft

[mossy trail]

I think ai will create unique and creative things, when ai will gain consciousness, which I hope it won't

[serene tulip]

proving this within any meaningful reason would break philosophy

[rugged perch]

why?

[forest basalt]

i guess

[stable comet]

That .2 inches of a line was taken from this exact painting, your whole image is stolen art

[stable comet]

Sure! But a few of the people throwing a fit don't even have their own art shared, so I didn't really care what they had to say anymore lol

[rugged perch]

you don't need to be an artist to dislike AI art

[serene tulip]

You don't even need to dislike ai art as a concept to dislike ai art 😄

[zenith olive]

No one was throwing a fit? If you think that people criticizing you for putting ai generated images into an art channel is throwing a fit maybe you need to get some sense knocked into you

[rugged perch]

@stable comet refrain from the clown moji reaction, as it's downright meant to offend

nothing constructive in it

[serene tulip]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516763813790482464/1130221908080734329/20230716_123728.jpg
you tellin' me you would be able to pick this out of a lineup at an abstract sculpture exhibit?

People make art by accident all the time

[rugged perch]

art in general has some intentionality in it, usually a message, often a show of some skill. the definition is very fluid, ye, but just finding a piece of metal doesn't count as art imo

[serene tulip]

All that it takes for art to be art is for someone to think its artistic

[mossy trail]

I disagree that art has to have intention and this is art to me also metal scrap is one of the coolest looking things ever most of the time

[rugged perch]

afaik it needs at least a tiny bit of intention

[serene tulip]

I mean, the intention of thinking of it as artistic seems fine?

[rugged perch]

no, i didn't mean it like that

[serene tulip]

or, to pull out a layer of abstraction: me fishing it out of the scrap bin and putting it on my shelf was the intention

[rugged perch]

it needs to have been created and/or at least imbued with message intentionally

[rugged perch]

nah, thats not it

[serene tulip]

art doesn't need message

[mossy trail]

well, by your definition of art

[rugged perch]

it's not mine only

[stable comet]

Woohoo art gatekeeping

[serene tulip]

Message helps art but isn't defined by it

[rugged perch]

true, it doesn't always need a message

but then other characteristics must be present

[mossy trail]

didn't say it was your only, just that it yours

[serene tulip]

you be quiet, darc, I'm helping your point but you're kinda a jerk

😛

[stable comet]

Haha I'm ok with that 🙂

[serene tulip]

You really shouldn't be 🙃

[rugged perch]

it's a definition discussed in the faculties of art

defining art was meant to be an unsolvable task when i was doing my studies

[serene tulip]

to say that art requires message to exist is to throw rothko out the window

[mossy trail]

also a video a literally watched an hour ago had a point in it that a message only requires a recipient thinking it's a message, not a sender

[serene tulip]

ooh

that's fun

but I still maintain that art need not have meaning

[stable comet]

That's a cool one~ happen to know the video still?

[mossy trail]

well, that's some faculties' definition of art

[rugged perch]

rothko did show craft and skill though, not to mention he himself does put a message in at least some of his artworks

[serene tulip]

right, art is measured through many lenses

economy of movement is art

meaning nonwithstanding

[rugged perch]

gheh... "i heard a message from the stars"....

[rugged perch]

it very well could be. there are certainly plenty of performances in which it is

[serene tulip]

not even just in performances but production!

gesture sketches!

[rugged perch]

it's lovely btw, totally get why you kept it

any idea what it might have been?

[serene tulip]

oh yeah, its a discarded nest of a laser cut sheet of metal

it was what was left over after they cut out everything they wanted and to save space they twisted it all up

[rugged perch]

accidental sculpture, you say

[serene tulip]

Hell yeah

intentionality is overrated

accidental poetry is the best

[mossy trail]

Found it
https://youtu.be/dhHwPoSp7AU

[mossy trail]

real and true

[serene tulip]

god I wish I were an eccentric billionaire so I could found the found art museum

museum of lost art

[mossy trail]

it's called the junkyard

[rugged perch]

might as well, tbf

scrapyards are full of cool thingies

[serene tulip]

its nice that this genre is keeping things up.

[mild pelican]

what in the world did i miss

[rugged perch]

tl;dr: ai art bro thinks it's alright to piss off people by defending "his" "art"

[stable comet]

Thanks a bunch

[mild pelican]

yeah, that happen sometime, maybe it's not a place to share something not everybody would understand

maybe some sites like DA would fit better

[stable comet]

Yeah that's why I checked the "pinned" posts in the art channel first, looked good.

[rugged perch]

DA actually has a very useful filter for users: it removes all AI art from their feed

[sharp grail]

please keep it clean, this server is definitely not the place to talk about it

[mild pelican]

if it wasn't breaking the rules of content, then i don't see the issue

[stable comet]

I didn't either, but apparently my ignoring criticism and continuing to share my art was seen as "attempting to be informatory" 😢
Which isn't the type of reaction I would have expected from Supergiant games group

[mild pelican]

some people may see issues where others don't, in the things you like, in the way you talk, dress or even name yourself, it's usually normal to move from their field of view to stop further rage

even if you're technically innocent

there are people whose job is to judge others, and they will defend you when time comes

probably

[stable comet]

Yeah that's a good way to look at it

[serene tulip]

As just a general good rule of thumb, early adopters of possibly radical technologies should act compassionately towards the concerns of people who haven't gotten on board yet.

[stable comet]

But self driving cars are gonna be soooo nice when they're actually working right
😛

[serene tulip]

rofl

[rugged perch]

great time to shill for self-driving cars

[stable comet]

I'll try to keep that in mind.

[serene tulip]

well you see, people who aren't on board are just mere pedestrians

[serene tulip]

i'm at least 75% certain that that response had a few layers of irony on it

[rugged perch]

intentional?

[serene tulip]

a nonzero amount of layers

Now, I know we don't agree about intentionality but 😛

[mild pelican]

i'll never have a car, the fact that i underwent professional psychological treatment prevents me from having driving and weapon license

so if the fate somehow tosses me to the country where i'll absolutely have to drive a car, like US, i'll have to rely either on taxi drivers or AI cars

[rugged perch]

the latter don't exactly exist yet

[serene tulip]

Tesla can't get full autopilot in a goddam tunnel, it might not exist for a while

[rugged perch]

and recently there have been a lot of issues with self-driving cars

[serene tulip]

a tunnel they built

[sharp grail]

i also cant drive for medical reasons 🤝

[mild pelican]

sure it'll be issues when company is driven by dude who is out of his mind

[rugged perch]

not being able to navigate your own infrastructure is a next level failure

[mild pelican]

but i've heard about attempts at creating autonomic cars since early 90s, with huge vans full of computers and TV-level cameras on their roofs

we'll get there someday.. in several decades, i believe

at least there's hope

[serene tulip]

Honestly if we had just started building infrastructure for automatic cars back in the aughts we'd be halfway there by now.

[stable comet]

That's really what is needed. Once they have their own lanes and ect then it will be working much better

[serene tulip]

eh

its iffy

[rugged perch]

i hope so, it's a good idea to have them, but certainly not with the current approach and infrastructure

[serene tulip]

if you're going to have dedicated lanes you might as well stick busses on them instead of cars

or put tracks there and put trolleys

significantly cheaper

moves much more people

[mild pelican]

our current infrastructure is still based on the principles made in the age of horse-powered wagons and chariots
i think, there should be some radical changes soon

[rugged perch]

but muh individualizm n indipendincy

[mild pelican]

trams are underrated

[rugged perch]

trams 🧡

[stable comet]

If not, then we get to watch "Fall of Rome part 2" and everything breaks before it gets fixed

[mild pelican]

i think old cities can't be saved now

but new ones can make some experimenting

getting rid of some awful design desicions like intersections of pedestrian roads with autotransport roads

[vocal yoke]

Well the news has done it again
Lmao people actually beliege a 2 year old in North Korea actually got sentenced to life in prison

[mild pelican]

crosswalks, sidewalks

they were safe when average speed was 30 mph and you could see at most 3 cars in a minute passing by

now countless number of people die in road accidents every day

maybe there should be road junctions everywhere on busy roads instead of crossroads with traffic lights

some other crazy stuff

as for now, not even storing all the cars is possible in many places

yards are cluttered with cars

a real problem of cities where most of people live in apartment buildings

[stable comet]

yeah, and most places of the world have such bad public transit that all of those people in one space are convinced they all need to own a personal car (and in many cases it is necessary for survival)

[mild pelican]

they were sentenced to life in North Korea, that's already heavy enough

[stable comet]

which leads to crazy parking structures and ect eating up otherwise useful area

[mild pelican]

even design of our cars, btw, is still based on ancient cart concept, with roughly same size, number of wheels and the way they turn

same square box with four wheels

[stable comet]

@rotund rivet the mods asked us earlier not to debate too much in the art channel, we can talk here

[rotund rivet]

fair enough

is combining things in a certain way not creating something?
that's a pretty vague question
if I squirt ketchup and mayo into a cup together and call it art online you know it would spark debate
but I ain't talking about that

[stable comet]

so is the issue that the programs can remember and catogorize details better than most people?

[rotund rivet]

I was referencing the fact that most publicly available AI tools are pulling references from public domain without permissions from the original artists
with these tools, many folk have been feeding them prompts then calling the generations their own art, despite not having fed the tool anything themselves

it's downright unethical

[rotund rivet]

what issue?

I feel like you're trying to ask something not coming across in your questions

computer programs can remember things well, sure
never seen anyone take issue with that ability

I don't think that's a debate within the art community or comp sci community

so it makes more sense that you're asking something else

[stable comet]

hm i suppose i'm trying to think of the right way to word it

[rotund rivet]

np

I'd like to be fair to your intention

[stable comet]

because every type of art is usually pulling reference from something, and some people can recreate things they see with photorealistic accuracy. A tree is a tree. If i create an image of a tree with Midjourney, how do i credit the origonal artist of a tree? how is it different from painting a tree, would i also need to credit the origonal tree artist? or if i walked through an art galley of different artists paintings of trees and painted my own tree, would i have to say oh i liked the leaf shape i seen in this painting so i made my leaves kinda like that now i must credit these artists.

still trying to word it right, this is just my mess of thoughts so far

[rotund rivet]

how is it different from painting a tree, would i also need to credit the origonal tree artist?
the historical precedent with art credit involves giving credit to the one who created the art piece

[stable comet]

right, i'm saying who drew the first tree, and why dont we always credit them

[rotund rivet]

if you say who inspired you, that's cool, too, tho it's not typically involved in the crediting process unless there is IP/copyright involved

[mild pelican]

i think in music there are some juridical definitions on where is certain pattern of notes is considered borrowed from someone else's work, and when it's not
i suppose there should be similar things somewhere in art laws

[rotund rivet]

as for how it's actually different from painting a tree

well

Midjourney painted the tree

[stable comet]

the brush doesnt move without the hand pushing it

[rotund rivet]

ye that's still a debated topic, but somewhat easier given the mathematical nature of music

[rotund rivet]

this also seems a cold take

not to be callous

it's just

yeah

no one debates that

is this a metaphor?

[stable comet]

ah but when you say 'you didnt make the tree, midjourney did' it feels similar to saying 'you didnt paint that, the brush did'.

[rotund rivet]

why would I say AI and paintbrushes are the same tools?

they are vastly different in scope, function, and ethics

conflating the two seems a nonlogical shortcut

[stable comet]

sorry, "feels similar to" not implying you're saying the two mare the same

[rotund rivet]

right

you proposed a circumstance in which you were looking at other paintings and inspired to paint yourself

then asked how AI is different

it seems you acknowledge they are not the same

[stable comet]

I feel like the difference is that Ai is better at remembering and applying the details, which somepeople can do and some people can not do

[rotund rivet]

to reiterate with clarity, they are different because in one case the brush is controlled directly by the artist, and in the other the AI is using the brush

that's not touching on the ethical issues

just the functional

the ethical issues are when credit/ownership becomes a question

inspiration is not the same as authorship, we both agree
creation credit is still important tho
we do not credit the brush because the artist has direct, refined control over their tool
it takes immense skill and practice to direct the brush in such a way
the purpose of credit is to acknowledge the invested time, effort, skill, and imagination of that artist

AI just doesn't involve those things to a degree that garners respect

I did mention before that artists do use AI
they feed their own work to an AI, as you mentioned you do
they also apply their own art on top of AI generations

it's a valid tool

credit is usually the sticking point

if AI is doing all the work then there is no art involved but the domain sourced, y'know?

that domain gets the credit

[stable comet]

the reflex response to this would be to ask: "so someone who creates 5 minute speed paintings doesn't garner enough respect to be an artist?"
but i understand your intent there and what you're saying makes sense, but i dont agree with the last statement

[rotund rivet]

you misunderstand

a 5 min painting is not their first work

[stable comet]

completely onboard with you there

[rotund rivet]

the ability to create a 5 min painting still took practice and skill to achieve

[stable comet]

not actually making that argument

[rotund rivet]

I see

idk why you said it then

...i dont agree with the last statement
is it your opinion that AI created art takes immense skill, practice, and time investment to a comparable degree as other creation tools?

[stable comet]

my opinion is that there isnt some level that needs to be reached for it to be qualified as 'art'. its its own thing

it doesnt need to be on the same level as everything else to be a valid form of expression

[rotund rivet]

hmm

to circle back, if I squirted ketchup and mayo into a cup and posted it up in a museum gallery, you'd vibe with it?

there's def a school of thought amongst artists that want to push the boundaries of the definition through doing stuff like that
see tape banana

[stable comet]

what about if you collected 10s of thousands of dead flies and glued them in a circle? you'd be in an art museum

[rotund rivet]

that's a pretty different process tho right?

[stable comet]

tape bananana, halarious

[rotund rivet]

genociding flies and putting in the work to arrange them like that could be considered enough effort to garner respect in some folks eyes for sure

but you didn't answer my question

[stable comet]

ah! my feeling is that i dont need to vibe with it, if you made it, and you vibe with it, bam art

to go further with it

[rotund rivet]

so what you're saying is if I was walkin down a city street and felt nature's call, I could just drop trou, lay cable, and call it art?

as long as I felt it was special?

somehow expressive?

oop

idk what dyno read it was too fast

[stable comet]

sec

[stable comet]

to expand, i feel like it would be Unkind of me to try to disqualify something you thought was art if i didnt like the way you had made it

[stable comet]

see: performance art lol

[rotund rivet]

well in my example the sidewalk is the canvas and my creation is the steamer

tho the process of extrusion could be a performance too

depends on the artist's intentions

[stable comet]

there have been dumber things, for sure lol

[rotund rivet]

anyway, I was asking these questions to get a feel for how you define art, because that's important when discussing relatively new boundaries, like AI creations

it seems you're in the camp of "art can be anything", yeah? correct me if wrong

if so, how do you think this avoids diluting the meaningful practice of artistic expression?

it's one of the primary concerns of AI creations tools, since AI has no understanding of human emotion

the use of these tools do objectively function as a significant spacer between the imagination of the human and the meaning of the creation itself

[stable comet]

is that to say that if ai art exists, then people wont make other forms of art?

[rotund rivet]

no

I mean what I said

not the second question

[mild pelican]

if i may

[stable comet]

hop on in, waters fine 🙂

also, thanks @rotund rivet for discussing this with me

[mild pelican]

as it was stated before, AI doesn't run by itself, it doesn't create things out of the blue in the middle of the Wednesday, it has a human being to make a prompt and then it'll execute the prompt

and then it takes a human to choose if the human is okay with the result, or finds it necessary to run the process again

[stable comet]

i feel like having access to the ability to ai art allows people who otherwise wouldnt make art the oppertunity to do so

[rugged perch]

one of its benefits

[mild pelican]

so, the expression point here can be applied with restriction on the operator, who chooses what result fits better with his original vision of possible result

[rotund rivet]

right, a human still has to post it and whatnot

my recent question and following statements were addressing the nature of artistic expression and how that may change with the tools in question

[stable comet]

the 'final image' of a lot of the things i make is vastly different from the options offered when i begin

[rotund rivet]

the aforementioned brush is in direct control of the human and maintains a very thin barrier between the artist and ultimate creation

AI is a much thicker boundary

this is a big talking point on the subject

[stable comet]

thats understandable and not inaccurate

[mild pelican]

definition of art is a complicated thing, and it takes lot of variables to be defined

[rotund rivet]

ye I ain't looking to define art

it just helps to know how others do if I'm gonna talk about it

[mild pelican]

starting from "is art a gift from god" to "is art applies only to pictures" etc

[stable comet]

the only issue comes from some people making the argument "ai made art cant be art"

[rotund rivet]

I wouldn't say those are the only issues at all

[stable comet]

feels very, defining what art can and cant be

[rotund rivet]

we talked about credit, remember?

[forest basalt]

knowing that an ai made a piece makes it feel soulless

[stable comet]

to you maybe, this makes me feel a lot of things https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1012804630448722021/1130180576314409000/darc_kross_Hyperdetailed_hyperrealism_surrealism_Other_dimensio_c2813999-7d3e-40d4-8b6a-d93bdb015b90.png

[rotund rivet]

it's certainly pretty

[forest basalt]

its impressive, i think its a nice piece

but i think it would be a lot more impressive if someone who had been perfecting their craft for years made it

[mild pelican]

by the way, with the development of AI technologies, the humanity will definitely have to face the questions more complicated than "what is art".. like "what is soul", "what is life", "what is personality" etc

[forest basalt]

this was made by a computer in 3 seconds by pulling from other peoples art

[stable comet]

very false

[stable comet]

i worked a long time on this

and went through 100s of versions before coming to this

[rotund rivet]

what was the source domain?

[mild pelican]

considering art, there is difference between legal copyright things and personal impression things, and i think, they should be percieved separately

[forest basalt]

it still feels very arbitrary

[mild pelican]

as well as when talking about definition of art, any art, there are different things that have to be taken in consideration like artist skill, time and effort spent, vision of artist, and others

if you'd ask me, i think time and effort don't make any difference in terms of cultural and artistic value of a piece

[stable comet]

i immagined an alien planet with giant trees and people living on it and wanted to make images for it

[mild pelican]

but it does make a difference in terms of monetary value, as well as personal sentimental value

[stable comet]

yeah i;m not trying to sell stuff or anything like that. i just like being able to make visable images of things i think of

[mild pelican]

bc if we go the way of "if you spend too little time, you don't deserve respect" way, we can as well refer back to old statements

[rotund rivet]

that's not what "source domain" means

[forest basalt]

some of the most popular osngs of all time were written in 10 mins

[rotund rivet]

that's Midjourney yeah?
where was it pulling its references from?

[mild pelican]

"photography is not art"
"movies are not art"
"printed pieces are not art"
"computer imagery are not art"
"digital drawings are not art"
--you are here--
"ai images are not art"
etc

[rotund rivet]

this feels like a rewind

[stable comet]

you didnt spend 3 weeks carving into the wall, you just put berry juice on that leather

[rotund rivet]

the strawmen statements aren't really warranted

[rotund rivet]

does anyone want to address this?

[stable comet]

i thought i did?

[rotund rivet]

er

[mild pelican]

i remember similar discussions back in the day, when people who used to spend months on a single drawing were refusing to respect people who used photoshop

[rotund rivet]

this was a gross misunderstanding of my question
I didn't notice followup

[stable comet]

people can still make art other ways if they want to? it enhances artistic expression by allowing people who otherwise wouldnt make art to do so. i think i might be missing how this does the thing you're asking if it avoids

[stable comet]

you were there too! there is always progress

[mild pelican]

and tbh, i actually understand why in this case people are mad. nobody wants to accept the fact that the thing they did for years, put lots of blood, sweat and tears into, defining their very life for, is being replaced by a machine work, much easier and faster

[rotund rivet]

to reiterate

if so, how do you think this avoids diluting the meaningful practice of artistic expression?
it's one of the primary concerns of AI creations tools, since AI has no understanding of human emotion
the use of these tools do objectively function as a significant spacer between the imagination of the human and the meaning of the creation itself
this is the full context

[mild pelican]

especially artists, who are by the nature more sensitive persons

[rotund rivet]

you both just said opposite things

folks can def make art in other ways if they like, I agree with that
therefore no one is being replaced, unless you refer to corporate interest

[mild pelican]

my opinion is most probably the history will reiterate itself
the AI art will be considered an art, but it will never replace in any way the art made by traditional and digital artists

[forest basalt]

people are being replaced tho

almost every writer in hollywood went on strike over ai

[stable comet]

always and forever everywhere in everything

[mild pelican]

it will exist as a thing of its own with people who like to do it and like to spend time on it

[rotund rivet]

did you read the bit where I mention corporate interest?

[forest basalt]

corporate interest is a pretty big chunk of life

capitalism 🥴

[rotund rivet]

sadly true

[forest basalt]

it seems ignorant to ignore it

[rotund rivet]

well yeah

no one is ignoring here I think

I hope not

[mild pelican]

the demand for the work of artists might decrease in terms of illustration work, which involves minimum creativity, but it'll stay the same in terms of real art expression

[forest basalt]

ignoring corporate interest

[stable comet]

skill is always needed

[mild pelican]

i can only imagine concept artists being much less required

[forest basalt]

i guess i just dont see the skill in writing "big ol tree on alien planet" and the computer spitting out an image

[stable comet]

anyone can type words into an ai art generator, that dosent mean everytime someone does they will be able to hone it to a visually appealing image

[mild pelican]

those who have to draw same things over and over again, just to see 98% of their work being rejected by directors

[forest basalt]

which sucks

[mild pelican]

it's understandable.
just as much as people don't see the skill in "pressing the button and getting an image"
or "moving and clicking the mouse"

[mild pelican]

i'll even call it the kind of "ungrateful work"

[stable comet]

i could do an example generation though dm's if anyone has never used MJ before 🙂 you tell me what to tell it and i can send back the results

[rotund rivet]

this must be disingenuous
you really don't see anyone use tools like mice skillfully?

ever?

given what you've been saying so far I have trouble believing you feel that way

[mild pelican]

i do, but there are many people who don't

there are still people who don't accept digital artists as artists

[rotund rivet]

you listed mouse movement next to clicking a button tho

[mild pelican]

they say that art is only made by paints on canvas

[rotund rivet]

we were talking about skill tho

defining skill and art are separate

[mild pelican]

by pressing a button and getting an image i meant photo

[rotund rivet]

oh

photos aren't produced by clicking buttons tho

you gotta put the camera in the right place at the right time

I understand you are referencing folks who disrespect certain types of art, though I gotta say your reductive descriptions are muddling the dicussion

[mild pelican]

every professional photographer will tell many reasons why those statements about the low effort of their work is incorrect

im not an artists, but i used to be a programmer

and i think, the process of creating art with a use of ai is as well more complicated than some people think

especially taking in consideration people who make training themselves

[rotund rivet]

to be reductive myself, everything is more complicated than people think
you def right

it's more nuanced than just pressing a button

[rugged perch]

once the issues of stolen datasets and corporate interests making people jobless are solved, AI art may become less negatively viewed. atm though...

[rotund rivet]

ye it's primarily an ethical issue for me too

[stable comet]

i feel like i've run out of steam, but i again thank you for discussing this with me.
#art message has this helped at all with your original question? 😛

[mild pelican]

as well as that, i can objectify about the "stolen art" thing, but this issue is not applied to all the models out there

[rotund rivet]

you did say Midjourney was feeding from your own drawings in one case, but you didn't say about the others

so I'm still unsure

[mild pelican]

different AIs use different ways of putting an image together, and early ones were definitely just photobashing images from the search request together in a way that kinda reminds what they were told is more correct

[stable comet]

ah, so your stance is that if i havent input my own images to a creation, then it can not be considered something i created? is that accurate?

[mild pelican]

like DALL-E 1

some modern models, however, use different approach, and instead they study the way lines, forms and transitions are used, and then try to make new ones, that look like original

[rotund rivet]

I think the process of creating your own original work is separate from using public datasets, which was my original line of questioning

[stable comet]

the two can not be the same? i am not able to go through the process of creating my own work while using public datasets?

[rotund rivet]

if the creation process involves your text prompt directing an AI to fetch and analyze other people's art, I do not feel like you created anything

it's basically taking other folks art as your own, in a reassembled form

like Volus said tho this can work differently with different tools

[rugged perch]

are the images used to train them public domain though? there were several cases already (dA, artstation) where art sites would quietly include their entire userbase's artworks into their AI training. by the time users would react and insist on opting out, how much has the AI learned to emulate their styles?

[rotund rivet]

idk which Midjourney is

[mossy trail]

Ain't no way it's still going 😭

[stable comet]

ah ok. to me it is not different than analyzing from memory things you have seen. the computer is just doing the job of the memory

[rotund rivet]

ain't your memories

[mossy trail]

I mean a long discussion is cool but it's pretty shocking

[mild pelican]

it depends. some models don't even use any kind of pre-made datasets, and must be trained every time again

[stable comet]

no, and i dont feel like they have to be for me to express myself 🙂

[rotund rivet]

how do you connect other's memories, which you cannot see, to your own expression?

[stable comet]

the imput you provide to the tool and the details you choose to include or remove, what you choose to leave or change. everything from if a person is blonde or redhead to if they have their hand in the air of if its on their hip

[rotund rivet]

the input you provide to the tool are not part of their memories
if anything they just fetch them in ways you cannot see, right?

[rugged perch]

sounds like a commission for an artwork :)

[rotund rivet]

if you are actively looking at a fresh generation and want to change it, that isn't their memories either

so I'm not seeing the connection yet

[mild pelican]

that reminds me

can memes be considered art?

if you create a meme on a template, can you pretend you created it?

[rugged perch]

some of them - totally

[rotund rivet]

look man we'll be here all day if you keep trying to define art

[mossy trail]

Yes of course

[mild pelican]

if you take someone else's meme and edit it, does it count as the process of creation?

i think, the answers are more simple here bc there is no really such thing as copyrights when it comes to memes

memes belong to everyone

[rotund rivet]

I think adding your own ideas to something counts as an artistic contribution yes of course

[stable comet]

art belongs to everyone

[rugged perch]

lol

[mossy trail]

if anyone engages in philosophy without liking prolonged discussions that don't lead to anything they shouldn't be engaging in philosophy

[rotund rivet]

hmm?

[forest basalt]

how do you feel about copyright law

[rotund rivet]

God if you are trying to imply something I would appreciate a more direct statement

[mild pelican]

art does belong to everyone, but it has an author

[rotund rivet]

I don't want to try to parse your meaning

[stable comet]

for which country?

[mossy trail]

It can, r/bonehurtingjuice is definitely creative and artistic

[mild pelican]

unless it's NFT, then it doesn't belong to everyone

[rugged perch]

then it belongs in the trash

[forest basalt]

just in general

[mild pelican]

exactly

and then we're moving again between different topics

[mossy trail]

I am not implying anything

[mild pelican]

the problem of copyright pops out every now and then in discussion of AI art

[rotund rivet]

I see

[rotund rivet]

I guess the reply was accidental then?

[mild pelican]

to the point i feel like it's the main problem of the whole topic

[mossy trail]

When you buy nft you don't own the art though you own a link to it iirc and some copyright with it in some cases

[mild pelican]

also

one can own a physical piece of art

but the actual image is still available for everyone in the world

mostly

[mossy trail]

No, not every reply at least reply that I reply is a direct point made directly in response to combat the point of the message I reply to

[rotund rivet]

sure, I just didn't quite catch what you were trying to tell me

so it was meant for me, what did you mean?

[mossy trail]

It wasn't meant specifically for you although directed somewhere in that general direction however it was indeed intended as a response to your message simply not as an argument against it or for it but being related to it enough that I considered making it a reply to that message fitting

[rotund rivet]

man okay nevermind

I didn't mean to press if you don't wanna explain it

thought I'd be able to respond better if I asked

anyway

[mossy trail]

A physical piece of art isn't the art itself, it's a recording of it in physical form so you don't own the art you just own one of it's presences

[mossy trail]

Sometimes the things are what they seem

On another topic, buckwheat flakes with milk are delightfully delicious aren't they?

[mild pelican]

https://youtu.be/NnDe2u5M7e8

some right use of AI could be if it wasn't actually voiced by real ppl

but still, there are numbers of songs remixes with voices of people who are not alive anymore

[mild pelican]

the only proper way to eat buckwheat if you'd ask me

everything else like making it garnish and stuff is just

feels wrong

[mossy trail]

True

I hate buckwheat in any other form

[loud magnet]

Hi everyone! Im popping over from the hades speedrunning discord. We're running a tournament this Saturday called the Elysium Cup, and during the break we'd like to showcase some art/music made by people in the community. If you're interested in being added to the showcase/playlist, please feel free to DM me!

If anyone is interested in the tournament you can check out the details here: https://www.start.gg/tournament/elysium-cup-2023/details

[dreamy loom]

Hey all

[zenith olive]

Hello!

[dreamy loom]

Is there mods for hades?

[zenith olive]

probably

im not a hades fan so dont take ny word for it lol

[forest basalt]

there's a modding server pinned in #self-promotion

[serene tulip]

I ate a habanero sausage and my tum is terribly unhappy about it

this is literally the worst thing

https://tenor.com/view/drama-queen-melodrama-dramatic-overdramatic-exaggerating-gif-11680570

[bronze lintel]

habanero covered in ground beef?

if I guess that right?

[serene tulip]

ground chicken

but yes

[bronze lintel]

ngl

sounds like bomb

on both ends

[faint panther]

Heyo

[hexed hollow]

[serene tulip]

if you don't mind me asking, where is that character from? if anywher ein particular.

[stable comet]

@solid pulsar
https://mysticbeasts.com/manticore-vs-chimera/

#art message @solid pulsar Did you also know that the scorpfeline there is also based on D&D's Displacer beasts, which are a pretty fun creature type

[solid pulsar]

I also noticed the similarity there as well. I did always find the six legs to look strange on displacer beasts. While DMing I usually explained the extra middle ones as actually being illusory on account of the creatures' fae origin as opposed to being actual legs.

[mossy trail]

How does one find "wet bulb temperature" of your area like online I mean, I tried googling but didn't really accomplish anything

[zenith olive]

wet bulb temperature?

[earnest cargo]

Wet bulb temperature is the lowest temperature to which air can be cooled by the evaporation of water into the air at a constant pressure. It is therefore measured by wrapping a wet wick around the bulb of a thermometer and the measured temperature corresponds to the wet bulb temperature.
https://www.weather.gov/news/211009-WBGT

Maybe try the local weather channel

[mossy trail]

I can't seem to find any weather sites that do show wet bulb temperature, maybe it's just not a thing that's measured in my country

[earnest cargo]

Possibly

[bronze lintel]

I lost a fight to a fridge

[rugged perch]

do tell

[grave sand]

fridges are notoriously resistant to nuclear weapons, so I'm not surprised

[bronze lintel]

its temp was going up, so we decided to check the condenser inside. Had a history where it didn't want to cool cause the inside condenser was clogged up. It was sort of clean but decided to give it a little brushy. My right hand met one of the brackets that were holding some of the parts.

Now I have a gash

I cleaned my hand afterwards

cause the bracket is somewhat dusty

[rugged perch]

unfair of the fridge to use metal weapons in a fist fight

[bronze lintel]

I almost spit my water reading that

[sharp grail]

I tried cleaning one of these, and while wiping the thing in the middle that shows the water level my finger got caught on the metal surrounding it and, well, I learned that it’s pretty sharp

[muted smelt]

rise of the machines

[bronze lintel]

I just checked mine

It is not sharp

Prob cause of different brand

Yep I ran my y finger on it

Twice

[muted smelt]

third times the charm

[sharp grail]

[bronze lintel]

Did it

[muted smelt]

i'll move the goalpost to four times then

[bronze lintel]

Nonono

You'll just move the goalpost every time

And eventually I'll get to the point you want

We ain't playing that game

[muted smelt]

aw

[grave sand]

so what if we move it just once

but to like 200

would you be willing then?

[teal imp]

Small question, is anybody here an expert on Japanese mythology?

[muted smelt]

not an expert but sounds like a fun discussion

[teal imp]

fr

[grave sand]

I watched Ghost Stories so if you want 2000's american version of it then sure

[muted smelt]

so fire away!

[jaunty osprey]

Can anyone help me with downloading mods for hades? If yes dm me pls

[serene tulip]

but sawadex, you don't seem particularly interested in reading anything in the server, why would we DM you something we weren't sure you would read?

[stable comet]

If you do a search in this server for "mods, pinned: true".
Do you know how to do that? It should be the 4th or so one

[sharp grail]

it is pinned in the self promotion channel :) #self-promotion message

uhh oops

there we go

[mossy trail]

Btw the women chess championship is currently ongoing

[grave sand]

google en passant

[tall owl]

holy hell

[mossy trail]

New response just dropped

[serene tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/mother-of-god-gif-10218431

[bronze lintel]

Morning

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/193414868760657920/1131391406016057405/20230720_080514.jpg

What a good way to start the day

[bronze lintel]

woops

was chilling at the door when a roach ran over my feet. Right after, I noticed a customer walked through the door.

Basically went, "DARN- Good Morning! How can I help?"

[muted smelt]

what if they ask

how much for the roach?

[bronze lintel]

"Please leave the establisment"

[muted smelt]

i dont wanna

[quasi trench]

Is it possible to buy DRM-free versions of Supergiant Games games?

[rugged perch]

might be on GOG

[quasi trench]

no hades though😔

[sharp grail]

it is drm free through steam

as far as i know

[rugged perch]

well, GOG does stand for "good old games"... :)

[quasi trench]

I thought all games are DRMed in steam

[sharp grail]

nope

you can open it from the exe without opening steam

you do need steam to download and update it tho

[bronze lintel]

Not all... CBP doesn't have DRM. My bro bought it, we have family share, I can launch it from .exe without opening to steam.

he can also play it at the same time as me

[quasi trench]

nice to know

[faint panther]

hi

[chilly ferry]

HELLO all 😄

[bronze lintel]

elo

[mossy trail]

I am mastering making pizza in the microwave

[blazing minnow]

Is supergiant indie?

The game's pretty neat

[narrow parcel]

Yo, anyone down for some Gartic Phone

[serene tulip]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516763813790482464/1131801926112137236/image.png

[muted smelt]

garte my beloved

he gave me a discout after i tired to run away but clumsily fell almost on a wheelchair old lady

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512790960816783363/1131954625298305054/image.png

[mossy trail]

I have an idea
0/0 = log 1 1

Wait nvm that's not true

Log 1 1 can only be integers

[serene tulip]

log 1 1 being base 1?

base 1 provides some interesting challenges to doing math that doesn't really apply itself to logarithms well

well, the good news is wolframalpha believes that 0/0 = log_1(1)

that is, undefined

[mossy trail]

Logarithm of 1 from base 1, at least I think it's the right way to say it

[mossy trail]

However not all undefineds are the same imo

Mmmm why didn't anyone teach me about non integer powers

All I know about them I figured out on my own and it ain't much

[serene tulip]

like, e^1.5?

or e^i*pi

[mossy trail]

Yeah, so far while googling I only found that x to the power of z/y is y root of x to the power of z but I didn't find an explanation why is it like that yet

[serene tulip]

Well, x^(y/y)==x^1 for y ∈ R

er,''

and sqrt_y(x^y)=x^1

[mossy trail]

Well that makes sense but still doesn't show the transition from x^(y/y) to sqrt_y(x^y) directly like not through an equation of those to a different thing

[serene tulip]

Hmm

Perhaps think about it this way, Raising an exponent by another exponent is like multiplying the two exponents together, right? 2^2=4, (2^2)^2=4^2=16=2^4

is that intuitive to you?

[mossy trail]

Yes

[serene tulip]

so if (2^2)^2=2^(2*2), then we can play around with the numbers a bit and get (2^2)^(0.5)=2^(2*0.5)=2

[mossy trail]

That is understandable

[serene tulip]

Also, there's the additive part of shared base exponents where (x^y)(x^z)=x^(y+z), so (x^1/2)*(x^1/2)=x^(1/2+1/2)=x^1, so x^1/2 times itself(Squared) is x, which means that x^(1/2)=SQRT(x)

[mossy trail]

Ohhh

Yeah that's way better thanks

[serene tulip]

and (x^y)(x^z)=x^(y+z) is pretty easy to prove yourself intuitively because x^2=x*x and x^3 = x*x*x so x^2*x^3=x*x*x*x*x=x^(2+3)=x^5

get math'd on

[muted smelt]

what language is this!

[mossy trail]

so, x^1 is composed of (x^1/n)^n, and as x^n is multiplying x on itself n times, x is the n root of x^n, so therefore (x^1/n) is n root of (x^1/n)^n, so therefore (x^1/n) is n root of x^1, so therefore (x^1/n) is n root of x

literally me rn:
https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-flowers-gif-5256893

[mossy trail]

so x^k/n is (x^1/n)^k, which is (n root of x)^k, which is n root of x^k

I can't believe it took me literally 30 minutes to literally just remember that (root of x)^n is root of x^n

[mossy trail]

Wait nvm that IS true, log_1(1) can be non integers

[bronze lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/calculating-puzzled-math-confused-confused-look-gif-14677181

[mossy trail]

Why cannot I sleep

[serene tulip]

Because you need to hear about how e^i*pi = - 1

so e is what happens when you set a constant so that the derivative(or rate of change) of the function e^x is e^x. It is its own rate of change, approximately equal to 2.71828
i is what happens when you try to square root a negative number(i = sqrt(-1))
and pi is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.
so it stands to reason that e^(i*pi)=-1

[clear raft]

Can someone help me quickly.

When you unlock a hidden aspect does upgrading the other aspects abvove bring any benefit?

I have the rail hidden aspect and the other aspects don't seem to be activated.

I want to know if its worth upgrading other aspects after unlocking the hidden one!

[hexed hollow]

you're best off asking in either #h1-discussion or #h1-builds-and-combat as this is the off topic section of the discord @clear raft

[vernal storm]

Bonjour

Comment allez vous

[serene tulip]

cool people language

[mossy trail]

Real

[mossy trail]

How is it integer if there are so many irrational number in it

[serene tulip]

an excellent question!