h2-builds-and-combat

[mystic mango]

Well it would then be able to solo sustain Moros

There has to be tradeoffs

[solemn carbon]

unseen basically is like tranquil gain but you’re allowed to walk around

That deactivates huntress as well

[mystic mango]

In a sense I guess but remember “channeling” is basically only an issue for torches

And Hel

And axe

[solemn carbon]

If you’re doing Charon axe you’re basically channelling, dashing, and channelling again

[mystic mango]

Yeah I’m aware that’s why I tossed it in

I’ve been learning Charon tech

I forgot cause tired

It’s… difficult

Like it’s a lot of buttons and buffers and timing if you want to do tech beyond the ospecial buffer where you just never let go of special and get to skip the normal special straight into ospecial on dash

[solemn carbon]

Is there more tech past that?

[mystic mango]

Can I DM something?

Just a video

[solemn carbon]

ofc

[west barn]

so i ended up doing a mix of all lmaooo.

[broken lichen]

are there absolutely no ||pool of purging|| in the ||dream dives||?

[mystic mango]

Correct

You get what you get

Kinda surprised they didn't add them but 🤷‍♂️ surface doesn't get them either

Also you don't have to spoiler mark in this channel

Anybody coming here ought know the risks of discussing builds and metas

[opal pecan]

Yuh it says in the channel description as well

[mystic mango]

You risk spoilers the moment you discuss anything that isn't only in the context of story

[rich belfry]

dream dives with 20 fears , demolished me .

[mystic mango]

If I'm gonna talk builds I'm gonna say how Hel skull is a slight pain to use omega attack on eris or chronos because you have to stand still briefly and they can turn on things like shotgun and the vacuum ability

If saying Eris is a spoiler then 🤷‍♂️ sucks to be them

[mystic mango]

Wait until you discover how absurd the rivals scaling is lol

[final sedge]

You unlocked Circe staff before trinkets?

[mystic mango]

I mean a lot of people kinda hold off on giving gifts to certain gods

[glossy jetty]

I just forget lmao

I see a boon, go :o and pick it up

[rich belfry]

how ? i fought zag and he was OP . i just wanna adjust the fear setting and try again.

like this mode issoun but damn its kinda hard

[mystic mango]

Dream zag is unchanged

Zagreus never scales by region

[magic grove]

thank god

[mystic mango]

That's why fighting him in R1 is so bad

[magic grove]

i fought r4 hecate yesterday SHE IS SO STRONG lool

[mystic mango]

Erebus or Oceanus Zag is horrible and doesn't save time

But Thessaly Zag is a big time save potentially and Olympus zag kinda depends

There can be some quite fast olympus rooms but there's also some horrible ones so even a 15-20 second zag kill potentially saves time

[rich belfry]

damn , maybe cause i encountered him at the fist region

or its a skill issue lol

[mystic mango]

Yeah Erebus is the only region 1 that can have him. Though dream dives can't start in Ephyra or Erebus

But yeah fighting him when you have basically no boons when he's a boss heavily scaled towards mid-run isn't the best idea usually

[rich belfry]

that what happened , erebus was the 1s.

[mystic mango]

On dream dive?

[rich belfry]

yeah

[mystic mango]

I thought R1 Erebus or Ephyra wasn't possible. Weird

[rich belfry]

idk i will check it when im back to play

[mystic mango]

Yeah they can appear R2 but I've never once seen R1 erebus or ephyra and it should be hard coded that way to keep things from feeling "normal"

[clever trail]

is that normal that sometime with scythe i'm doing two time the third attack in a row ?

it appens more when my attack speed increase idk why

[upbeat goblet]

Questione about aspect of Medea: Attack procs on special collision, but still applies damage as the normal Attack would, still scaling Better on something like Hestia than Apollo right?

[glossy jetty]

I'm pretty sure the aspect ups your raw damage, percentage gods might be better

[upbeat goblet]

Ah yes, its both special AND Attack damage. Thanks

[split igloo]

is this a good Charon build? #h2-victory-boasting message
it felt kinda bad to play, cast into ospec felt too slow, especially in later biomes, even without frenzy
I had to either tank or try to predict where the enemies would be
the little spitting enemies on the summit in particular were a nightmare to deal with
am I doing something wrong?

[magic grove]

good build yeah, you can dash mid ospecial

that's the main thing for safety on charon

but the build is fine, only missing poseidon for geyser spout and supernova if you could've (idk if youre running denial)

[split igloo]

oh I also had explosive intent from icarus, forgot to tag it

[magic grove]

ah yeah that sucks massive

[split igloo]

no, not the hazard cast, the one where you deal 50 damage AoE when you omega

[magic grove]

oh yeah sorry i messed those up, i guess its fine

if you didn't get any of the armor offerings from icarus

[split igloo]

I figured with lucid gain I have infinite magic, so got this + cut above

[magic grove]

yeah it's probably good

[split igloo]

but the main thing is this weapon is too slow, prom + heracles can't be CC'd with casts, so you have to fire on prediction

this was the hardest fight probably

[magic grove]

the weapon is on the slower side without sudden cleaver, but still pretty good, super nova also helps with that problem of predicting since it makes the explosions so big

[split igloo]

I usually play Thanatos when it comes to the axe, and that one is much more versatile IMO

[dusk lagoon]

What's the best build currently?

[split igloo]

medea with hera attack/zeus special probably, idk, it has literally no range though, speedrunners use it

[dapper elbow]

I’m curious what is the targeting priority for profuse bleeding when picking up plasma

[thorny junco]

Okay, im trying to do a flying pizza build, with Ares demeter duo on Skull, where you pop the cast and then use Ospecial to fly across the place killing everything.
Ive died 8 times now trying it, why is it so hard xDDDDD

[glossy jetty]

Sounds a little dangerous to pull off mid combat, since it's two different omega moves you have to set up

[drifting rose]

What’s the best build to get to kill the time titan fast and efficiently

I’ve killed him twice alr I’m trying to get the true ending yk

[glossy jetty]

For me a good and consistent build is just Mel torches maining Zeus

Arc flash pops every third hit, good damage from a good distancecan score air quality and static electricity for more damage and crowd control

And then you can rock with whatever else pops up

[mystic mango]

I mean like everything is viable

“What’s the best build to… win the game”

I mean are we asking boss damage, encounter damage, safety, healing, outright speed?

[glossy jetty]

They said fast and efficient, my mind went to a good build with minimal luck and effort to set up and play

[mystic mango]

I guess just they didn’t really specify a weapon or anything or what their concept of “fast” is

Cause like yeah if we’re talking fast just possessed array nuke him but not everybody likes skulls

[opal pecan]

Staff is typically considered pretty reliable, but IMO the most broadly applicable piece of advice is to play the weapon you're most comfortable with and get tips for how to play that weapon better

[mystic mango]

Asking for advice on “best” in general in the game is always gonna land you on speed/fear meta stuff you might still not enjoy

[glossy jetty]

Most efficient way to play the game is in a way that doesn't make you wanna quit

[opal pecan]

And that's why my coat PBs are faster than my Medea PB 😂

[mystic mango]

“Fast and efficient” answer is always going to be “how good are you at dodging while dealing damage”

Cause a build can be godly but slow if you don’t play it well

And a mediocre build can absolutely demolish bosses if you’re really good at cycling moves and dodges and keeping constant pressure

[mystic mango]

I picked up skulls, set multiple PB’s by a massive margin, got tired of the P-Array roulette, and put them down

Oh I didn’t hit born gain, flood gain or cardio gain and p-array? Guess I lose 🤷‍♂️

On high fear for just clearing it’s a totally different question but still

[drifting rose]

Alr tysm

[mystic mango]

“Fast and efficient” is gonna end in me telling you THE build and then you get constantly upset when you don’t get it

[glossy jetty]

Now I'm actually wondering, how far could someone push the game with no core boons?

[opal pecan]

Check the pinned message in this channel if you want some builds to consider

[opal pecan]

It's been cleared, no boons is a whole category

[broken spoke]

Just fish for trick knife ez

[glossy jetty]

What the hell

[opal pecan]

There's lots of funny challenge categories out there.

Clear the game with nothing except your dash/sprint.

[mystic mango]

TheDarkOmen has done 62 fear entirely boonless using Morrigan

[opal pecan]

Clear the game on the very first night of a fresh savefile.

[broken spoke]

Well at no fear a lot of silly thing can be done

[glossy jetty]

:[

Hades players scareeee meeeeeeeee

[opal pecan]

Hell, there are people who have cleared the game with nothing but Toula damage.

People like to make weird challenges for themselves lol

[mystic mango]

Well that’s not a time restriction that’s just patience

[broken spoke]

Your skill improves, enemy don't

[mystic mango]

I mean I have 1.24mil on a lunar ray run for big funny number and all I had to do was “hit the build”

[spiral wadi]

what's funny is that toula on max rivals is impossible because chronos will resummon the healing tempii after a while

at least according to a yt comment

[opal pecan]

My skill didn't improve that much, but my knowledge definitely did, and you'd be surprised how far that goes tbh

[mystic mango]

Yeah this game is DEEP on the BS it lets you do

[alpine raft]

nah you're underselling yourself

[glossy jetty]

Clear the game with only frinos damage 🔥

[spiral wadi]

i remember being hellbent on making special only mel torch work in 62f

[mystic mango]

There’s a category called Dash and Sprint Only (DASO) where you can’t ever press anything other than movement keys and dash

[spiral wadi]

it wasn't even good like i should've just been going for inverted/dividing and win

[opal pecan]

I am, at heart, just a mashy masher

[opal pecan]

Hey now. You are also allowed to salute.

:PPPP

[mystic mango]

Okay I mean COMBAT but yes

You can also use statues in Olympus

[glossy jetty]

Wait, what's the optimal dash boon? I'm guessing either Zeus or heph

[mystic mango]

I think?

[spiral wadi]

probably poseidon rush

[mystic mango]

Neither of those tbh

[opal pecan]

Heph sounds like it could be good if you highrolled

[mystic mango]

Poseidon, Hera or Hestia is optimal

[broken spoke]

The optimal is pick supay (until no supay category)

[spiral wadi]

heph sounds like ass for room clearing

[mystic mango]

Poseidon dash does insane damage if you are good at it

[opal pecan]

IDK, the blast is an AOE. You'd have to highroll like the absolute blazes but

[alpine raft]

yes interact is allowed

[spiral wadi]

ig so

[glossy jetty]

I mean with grand caldera, pomming it, yeah, doesn't seem impossible

[opal pecan]

The other stuff sounds a lot more reliable though

[glossy jetty]

Plus hitting seismic servo and chain reaction

[opal pecan]

Trying to hit the perfect hypothetical Heph build sounds like a PITA

[glossy jetty]

But I thought nexus rush only did damage on applying hitch?

[mystic mango]

Or you can just use Poseidon dash which does nearly as much damage in a larger area and has no time restriction

[opal pecan]

Yes.

[broken spoke]

When you clang on ward

[opal pecan]

Nexus is still pretty good early game imo, everything just sort of dies immediately.

I can't imagine trying to boss with it though.

[mystic mango]

Nexus solos R1 and 2 aside from bosses

And whatever enemy is left for last

[glossy jetty]

Then I'm confused on why it'd be optimal on a rush-only run

[mystic mango]

You can take other boons

You just can’t press the buttons

[spiral wadi]

me when i pom nexus on coat and lose movement speed while i'm in the room (fields diff)

[mystic mango]

You still have gigaros and such

And Supay is allowed

[glossy jetty]

Supay?

[opal pecan]

Hidden aspect of the flames

[mystic mango]

So you just can’t PRESS attack, special or cast

I didn’t realize we were discussing a category centered around a weapon they don’t even know exists

[glossy jetty]

I'm chill with it ┐⁠(⁠´⁠ー⁠｀⁠)⁠┌

[mystic mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1493317393433235576/1495214620133298375/6976EE1.MP4?ex=69e56ea1&is=69e41d21&hm=ac12fbc1e04f8d33867ada856bf09a34ed000dc9150d58f2d8d46a2cc3982713&

Soupy power

Got screwed out of getting a heph attack

[spiral wadi]

tbf supay is a category extension isn't it

[mystic mango]

I even took card Olympus

[broken spoke]

I think there is no supay category?

[spiral wadi]

ah i see

[broken spoke]

Supay is a category of it own

[opal pecan]

I mean, if you quarantine Supay, then it just becomes Nyx, doesn't it?

[mystic mango]

The no-supay is probably the secondary category I’m sure

[broken spoke]

Although non supay probably just full of nyx instead

[mystic mango]

Yeah nyx is the only other weapon that does damage just by sprinting

Hitch a whole room with nexus and then just steamroll some poor guy

[opal pecan]

Oh huh. There's no DASO category on the SRC page. Why did I think there was?

[spiral wadi]

i thought there was too i just checked lmao

[mystic mango]

Did you not check the bonus tabs

[opal pecan]

The what

[mystic mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1217110523091357747/1495214053352804392/image.png?ex=69e56e1a&is=69e41c9a&hm=59350c2fe8e43555f183a286c7b549d1d4e6d951c6fe05d806dd0dd9c0d1e816&

This hurt so bad to have as an incomplete build

So lame

Also TWO boons in a row my options were ionic sacrifice, bad boon bad boon

No double, overload or arc

[glossy jetty]

Ionic gain my beloathed

[mystic mango]

I FINALLY got a storm ring sacrifice in Olympus

But really needed arc and double way sooner

Also it’s so much like Supay to literally not even have attack or special on damage board in any capacity

[opal pecan]

Ionic more like IonICK

[glossy jetty]

Honestly ionic gain would be like a billion times better if just sprinting into it was enough

Having to press an entirely new unnatural key AFTER getting to a specific point on the battlefield AND standing there just waiting to get hit

Yuck

[mystic mango]

Yeah if I could just pick it up like a Hecuba magick orb it would actually be decent

It would be a very minor tradeoff

[alpine raft]

when you're on the src page, click category extensions at the top

or add _ce to the url

[opal pecan]

I was fully ready to lament that I had become my mother and apparently unable to read webpages, but fortunately, I found it at the last sec 🫡

Why is it so small oml

[mystic mango]

Must… not

[opal pecan]

Okay, so it really is just Nyx in the non-Supay category ahha

[mystic mango]

I mean yeah why would you ever run something that literally does nothing but rush boon and gig dash damage

And “nearby enemy” effects

High surf arterial spray gaming

[opal pecan]

You joke but I'm pretty sure that my Chronos fight PB was Arterial Spray High Surf

[mystic mango]

I mean not gonna lie I do like it except on weapons where it forces me to chase stuff down and I’m not mobile enough

[opal pecan]

Okay it wasn't, I was thinking of a different run that just happened to be funni, but I am a big fan of High Surf 😆

Yeah, if you have to chase enemies to proc it, it's not worth

[mystic mango]

High surf Oceanus is a peak Hades experience

[opal pecan]

Melt! Them! Fish!

[mystic mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942118698008606/1489416480096256000/27A7541.MP4?ex=69e56eb0&is=69e41d30&hm=d9afc9258e83e4865b6084defe9d0650d77a49d5ff49ee5fed40ab1487ce066a&

The 1 second Oceanus room

I HATE shellbacks but at least they have a high unit value so if you get enough of them you can’t get a second wave

[broken spoke]

Those fish singlehandly carry high surf into top 5 dmg

[mystic mango]

Fr lol

Epic high surf goes hard in Oceanus, Thessaly, and Tartarus

And summit for that matter cause Polyps exist

[wild drift]

I love special spam flames lol only problem is the Hidden Helix reliance

[mystic mango]

Hidden helix is pretty massive and we love NEVER getting it

[wild drift]

Hidden Helix + Gigaros reliance for that matter

[mystic mango]

Yeah also it’s 100% valid that they made it not appear on Eos

[spiral wadi]

indeed

[tall notch]

What's hidden helix? Never seen it as an Eos gamer

[spiral wadi]

i like how eos was like a sleeper aspect that we realized "wait this is kinda strong" post 1.0

[mystic mango]

Yeah Eos is a top 8 easily

Like special spam with flat damage buff with free oattack damage is insanely strong

Looking back to my nearly no-damage 1:06 58 fear Promacles kill with Eos

[tall notch]

The only sleepers were the community, Eos was peak since patch 1 of EA 🔥

[spiral wadi]

tru

[mystic mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1491933064505331772/clip_1775774931190.mp4?ex=69e55bf1&is=69e40a71&hm=2524ab734a7e4f648db20a23e82a761e2861ba553d933b99dc6d89ce326c52f9&

Eos RIPS

[dusk lagoon]

Any good god combinations that don't use mana?

[viral yew]

Zeus hera

Wdym by don't use mana tho

[dusk lagoon]

that does not use any special attacks focused on mana, only normal attacks.

[magic grove]

that depends on the aspect, some weapons are not omega-focused

[dusk lagoon]

Yeah, I don't want a build focused on omega attacks.

[magic grove]

uhh pick like mel blades and get like poseidon/hestia on attack and another curse on special

or mel coat

or nyx with poseidon on the special slot

well technically nyx uses omega boost nevermind

[wild drift]

Mel Staff, Circe, Mel Blades, (Artemis), (Pan), (Mel Flames), Hidden Flames, Mel Axe, Mel Skull, Medea, (Persephone), (Hidden Skull), Mel Coat, (Nyx), (Hidden Coat)

Can all be played semi-optimally with zero omega usage imo, ones in parenthesis either typically use omegas or have omegas in their gimmick, but can still be played without

Excluded stuff like Momus and Selene because at that point you'd just be playing Mel aspect but worse

Actually that means I should probably exclude Artemis, Persephone, and Nyx too lol

[bronze flax]

Persephone has the extra levels, is not call it worse

[wild drift]

Oh yeah true lol

[bronze flax]

I'd call it boring, joyriding a skull car is very funny

https://tenor.com/view/skull-car-cigarette-gif-4308401115547052449

[opal pecan]

At least you can still use Selene gimmick without omegas if you take Growth node

You can't use Nyx gimmick at all if you don't use omegas

[wild drift]

Sky Fall should've had an Ambition equivalent to make it useful with Growth/Moon card

[opal pecan]

Oh yeah, Moon card too

[icy crypt]

whats the best way to grind kudos
i need my funko pops

[viral yew]

Playing normal runs

[opal pecan]

Make sure you have the resource auto-gathering incantation. Take whichever weapon has Grave Thirst (assuming you have the other incant that also gives gemstones for GT)

[zenith olive]

im very curious on what people generally consider the most worthy flames, what do yall crackheads think of my 22 flames setup: pain, grit, wards(2), hordes, menace (x2), return, scars, debt, shadow, forfeit, time, rivals (x2)

just beat underword like this and hordes definitely did not feel worthy it

considering taking hordes off and adding frenzy and fangs for 26

[mystic mango]

I think that’s the most diabolical 22 fear setup in existence because you refuse to run at least time 2 and frenzy + fangs

Time frenzy and fangs alone is 17 fear

[zenith olive]

time 2 is unfun i dont like it

[mystic mango]

Okay well then you only get 11 fear

But definitely save stuff like return, hordes and wards for later

They affect a lot for how little they provide

[zenith olive]

i never tried frenzy and fangs honestly! they just seem scary, but im probably adding them for i think 28 now

[mystic mango]

Also forfeit in 22 fear is crazy work

[zenith olive]

woaw wards always felt like the easiest one for me

[mystic mango]

Wards invalidates some weapons and builds

But I guess it’s fine on torches

[zenith olive]

oh yeah i can see that

[mystic mango]

Debt and hubris are basically free

And shadow. That’s 6 fear right there and affects WAY less than the other stuff you were taking

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzEsMiwwLDYsMCwzLDAsNSwxLDIsMiwwLDEsMCwyLDIsNV0=

That’s a 32 fear setup you could run with time 1

It’s a lot easier than I’m sure you think it is

[zenith olive]

I kinda put It somewhere around 12 cuz It was 3 whole flames and equiped that one arcana to turn bad resources into good ones felt like that counters It a bit and got used to It

[zenith olive]

Yo cool gonna take a look

[mystic mango]

You keep saying flames

Think you mean fear

[zenith olive]

Oh yeah

[mystic mango]

Yeah if you’re willing to pick up time 2 that also takes some weight off your shoulders. All you gotta do is learn when the timer is active and not active

If you like I can list all the conditions that freeze timer

If you’re not aware what they are

[zenith olive]

Oh i think Im familiar with those

And I honestly Just pause the game to think sometines

I just dont like to have a time limit in general

I use time 1

[mystic mango]

That's valid. And yeah pausing is legally used in speedruns

[zenith olive]

Do speedruns use ingame timer?

[mystic mango]

Just I realized that even just playing the game normally it was pretty easy to get under 20 minutes

Yeah most speedruns are IGT

Some are RTA like multi-run

Or all-regions

[zenith olive]

I get around 23 most of the times

[zenith olive]

Oh I didnt really expect that but I can see it

[mystic mango]

Honestly all you gotta do to cut that down is minimize side rooms and always take shops and special encounters

[zenith olive]

I expected like a diferente igt or something that consider boon decisions

[mystic mango]

Also if you're hitting 23 minutes that's still 4 to spare on time 2

[zenith olive]

Im definitely putting time 2 on soon

[mystic mango]

But that's why RTA is used for multi-run because you also have the time moving through crossroads and animations and such

Makes you play the game a lot differently than IGT

[zenith olive]

Ohyeah that makes a lot of sense

[mystic mango]

IGT allows for skips and such but does become a lot of RNG

[zenith olive]

Only downside is counting screen transition on those

[mystic mango]

My surface record is 6:06 because I got charybdis, no midshops, aetos, and typhon tail

[zenith olive]

Damn

[mystic mango]

It could have been like a 5:3x

But that's also any-fear which is just frenzy and nothin else

My only ever surface 32 fear attempt was like 11 minutes

And underworld was like 7:45

Fear speedruns always run vows that don't slow the game so stuff like hordes, grit, wards, and return are an absolute no

Pain 3 Scars 3 is basically mandatory

[zenith olive]

That makes sense

[mystic mango]

32 fear setup is maxed of pain frenzy fangs scars debt shadow time and hubris

Since none of those actually affect encounters except fangs. though you can drop fangs and take forfeit and denial or menace and denial

But menace can get screwy

And forfeit means less boons

[zenith olive]

How worth is void

Its another one im very scared of but havent actuslly tried It

[mystic mango]

Not worth it really. If you're gonna run void you either do void 2 or 3 and take judgement

not running judgement makes your life way harder on void

Void 2 allows you only 12 magick

So the standard is to run origination, strength/death, artificer/furies

[zenith olive]

Thats what I do when I play judgment

[mystic mango]

Void 3 is 6 magick so like huntress/furies/persistence, lovers/artificer, messenger/runner/sorceress

[zenith olive]

Besides that thats what I WOULD do If I wasnt too scared to take zagreus off

[mystic mango]

Wayward is pretty nice

If you want a good setup for void 3 you can go night, lovers and any 1 grasp card

That gives you a 7 card start since it activates judgement, queen, moon, and divinity

So if you're running fates' whim you will never roll the reroll arcanas and will be guaranteed to hit every card by region 4

[zenith olive]

Well Im probably not putting void that high

[mystic mango]

Judgement can actively nerf weapons though just FYI

It really is not worth using for anything but high fear

And when i say high fear I mean 62+

[zenith olive]

I just want to get last Night's Champion and get all hot statues

[mystic mango]

That 32 fear setup I sent you should be real easy, trust

If you take time 2 you can drop pain and scars and make it truly easy

[zenith olive]

Gonna take a look at It! But probably wont like Full on copy it

Ive been having lots of Fun discovering whats good and works and I like at this game

[tall notch]

Forfeit at 32? That's questionable

[mystic mango]

I’m just saying it’s an option but yes it would potentially make early clear questionable based on your weapon

Something like Medea probably barely needs it but it’s borderline unplayable on Supay

Just saying if you’re going exclusively for time saves it’s not clear whether fangs or forfeit is faster

[tall notch]

Onion nerfs you so much I wouldn't take it until you're pushing above 50 fear

[mystic mango]

I said specifically for SPEED though

I was listing 32 fear speed

Cause fangs can potentially pull some serious BS

[tall notch]

Hmm

[mystic mango]

It’s whether you’re willing to nerf yourself to avoid BS or not

[tall notch]

Oh right 32f speedruns exist

[mystic mango]

Yeah that was my point

You take exclusively vows that don’t add time

It’s just anyfear but slightly harder and you can’t get hit

The 32f record is like within 30 seconds or so of anyfear

[vernal quiver]

why would you take forfeit for speed 😭 losing a boon a region stinks

[tall notch]

Is the speedrun 32f setup so easy you don't care about starting boonless?

[mystic mango]

I mean enemies aren’t any stronger in the first few rooms

You just want a hammer start or a good hades boon

It’s playable and basically nothing on some weapons that are hammer lovers

[spiral wadi]

found it, daso as a whole is under category extensions and there's a non-supay/supay setting https://www.speedrun.com/hades2_ce?x=w2063qz2-ylpkj3j8.1dk70ojl-e8mgvyx8.qkekxp9q-ylq4g9vn.1gnr3kxl-r8r63gr8.ln8weejl

[mystic mango]

Again it’s not set in stone I just put together every vow that doesn’t directly make encounters or bosses last longer

[tall notch]

Can you deal with armored enemies quickly with only the hammer? If you start onion, your room 2/3 reward will be nothing

[mystic mango]

32F is just anyfear with denial and slightly more execution

[mystic mango]

Artificer

Just get a room 2 artificer boon

Like that’s a thing that exists you’re not going totally naked for 4 rooms

[tall notch]

I thought speeds skipped arti because it's inconsistent and transforming is a time loss, is 32 different from anyfear in this regard?

[mystic mango]

Jpom wins easily

Even with artificer

Like it’s a total of 5 seconds of time loss

That’s it. You make that up from Pom levels alone

Honestly not even 5 seconds I bet

The transform is like less than a second

[tall notch]

It's actually so interesting that 32f speeds click onion

[mystic mango]

Idk if they do tbh I need to watch more

Idk whether more do or don’t

[tall notch]

Given how much of a menace that vow is in high fear

[mystic mango]

I’m just saying that it’s not something that inherently loses speed for you any more than accepting a Selene start does

I mean most weapons one-shot region 1 boonless

[tall notch]

Imagine playing Selene starts

[mystic mango]

I’ve done it actually for specific builds if I wanted something later and happened to get it

Like wolf howl on Supay

Or even twilight if I’m playing a magick heavy weapon or Eos

Twilight is nice for killing witches on Hecate

[tall notch]

Another issue with onion is that the lost boons add up as you go along, you start region 2 a boon short and your region 2 will also be a boon short. I've had to deal with boonless Oceanus so many times in my 50/62s

Boonless as in no new boons throughout all of Oceanus

[mystic mango]

I mean it’s 3 lost boons over a run it’s not the end of the world when enemies are as strong as they normally are

Again and I will repeat

The enemies are still not any stronger on 32 speed

They just hit harder. That’s it

You shouldn’t be getting hit anyways except for squeezing out last second damage

4 boons I suppose on surface cause of Summit but you can just take the other option and wait until shop

Like I’m not trying to be defensive here or anything. Forfeit just really doesn’t hurt weapons as much on what is effectively anyfear

[tall notch]

Hmm I see your point but idk it still feels like the loss of boons is underestimated a little

How's menace? Can't you click menace 2? If the enemies have like no fear, then with a good start you shouldn't have any more issues with them compared to current region enemies

[mystic mango]

Menace makes Erebus unbearable on speed compared to with it off

The enemies are far tankier

So you lose time every single encounter

Unlike with fangs which loses time SOMETIMES

And only can happen on like half the chambers per region

If you wanna fight hippos and shellbacks without being able to one-shot them before they run away then be my guest

I’ll happily stick to one-shotting Erebus

[tall notch]

Oh right shellbacks don't normally spawn in Erebus

[mystic mango]

Play 32 speed and come back when you’ve gotten a grasp of how much nicer not having menace is

It’s so much less annoying lol

[tall notch]

I'm still not sold on the onion vision, if I were to actually try 32 I'd just click fangs if menace is bad in Erebus

[mystic mango]

By all means I’ve still never been fully defending forfeit

It’s 6 one way, half dozen the other most likely on fangs 2 vs forfeit

It’s entirely up to the runner what they think is faster since it’s fear-speed

I’ve TRIED menace and it SUCKED

I would waste several seconds on individual enemies because none of my weapons could one-shot any of them

[tall notch]

Maybe you could run 50f instead

[mystic mango]

That’s also a speed category on SRC

There’s even 62 speed

(Which has recently been modified to ban void)

Also 50F speed would probably be everything but return, wards, hordes, rivals 4 and a level of grit

Or dropping forfeit and taking wards and max grit

Depending on weapon

[tall notch]

On higher fear I'd imagine the forfeit only hurts more

(I'm also like onion's biggest hater)

[mystic mango]

Onion does seriously suck

[round olive]

Charging my controler for now so figure I'd ask: Any tips for the Trial Of Blood? Taking on Eris is a lot harder for me when I only have 30HP and no death definance. Not impossible, mind you, I was just wondering if there were any good tips beyond "Git guud, don't get hit"

[viral yew]

Uh not really

[round olive]

Didn't think there would be. Git guud and don't get hit it is.

[tall notch]

Which one is trial of blood?

[round olive]

The one where you fight Eris with white antler and some poisiden/aphro/demetrer boons I think. Uses the sister blades.

You also don't really get rerolls in it, so there's an element of luck

[tall notch]

Ah should be free, just nuke her because you have antler

[round olive]

You'd think. But she has a habit of shooting me before I can shoot her.

Those damm armor shields at helthpoints save her ass

TBH I just need to get lucky in the run, but I wondered if anyone had any other ideas.

[tall notch]

it's regular Eris, right? No rivals? if so, you can try hugging pillars

idk if they changed her ai much since EA, but she used to chase you towards the pillars and if you had any attack that went through the pillar it was free

[round olive]

Yeah, that makes sense. And is probably still true to some degree.

[tall notch]

(to clarify, by "attack" i mean any move, not just the actual attack)

[gritty widget]

@mystic mango i remember you played anubis right
if it wasnt you mb for ping
how do you play anubis?
like in more detail
summit is slaughtering me cuz i needa stand still and charge omegas

[wild drift]

You can kinda do it like Charon where you dash-strike to lay down the circle then dash-charge the omega

[manic shuttle]

does extra dose affect dash-strikes?

[gritty widget]

do you have a video example for both of those
i was just casting and then going back to click ospecial with charon (and ate a lotta dmg)

[wild drift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34dQFnmBj8

4:35 and 20:38

[tall notch]

you can play anubis without clicking an omega

[flint widget]

i just know there will be people wholl be ragebaited by this

talking about the tier list

[tall notch]

I'd suggest clicking Toula, placing down your attack field and just playing around the zone

get some flat damage on special and possibly also the attack

damaging sprint can be decent too, to spam when you've got enemies in your attack already

[split igloo]

just played this trial, you have artemis blades + lovers + very likely to get snow queen, so that's 4 free hits + you can parry every 10 sec
and it's regular Eris, so the moveset is very simple, I did it hitless first try

[wild drift]

Me when I see someone like Thanatos and Shiva

[flint widget]

https://giphy.com/gifs/true-correct-why-is-he-olLyDUpnv5z3xhmeyB

[split igloo]

Thanatos is my fav axe aspect, because others are too slow, simple as

[wild drift]

My thing is you can play around the slowness of Mel and Nergal by only doing dash-strikes or only doing (psychic) whirlwinds and they do like twice the damage of Than

[tall notch]

surely Than is better than Mel at psychic whirling isn't it

Nergal sure is a better psychic whirl aspect but Mel I don't really think is that good of a psychic whirl aspect

[wild drift]

Yeah I meant respectively

[split igloo]

well that's like playing sword in H1 and only dash striking, why did the devs even add the regular combo animations when you're not gonna use them?
at least Thanatos lets you do the regular combo

[tall notch]

ohhh

Yeah I just like the way Than plays

there is a world where you can make an executioner's chop setup work because of how much faster it is

it's also versatile because its mechanics benefit both omega builds and melee combat

I dislike weapons that are very "get this specific hammer or suffer", so Than not being that is refreshing compared to Mel/Nergal

[split igloo]

yeah when you take thanatos + jpom you can basically make anything work, it's just a fun time

[gritty widget]

[gritty widget]

[manic shuttle]

yea, i had no gain in this one till talos https://youtu.be/DBkKqs65WHM

[manic shuttle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1438829189385031692/1495392952879677470/outputFile.mp4?ex=69e614b7&is=69e4c337&hm=d7079c6f78d9f3274bf571339f631d6490353dfc369309e3318994335ba5febf&

Flash Fry + extinction is so fun

[restive merlin]

apollo's boon for cutting edge or hammer ?
im using sisters blade morrigan aspect

anyone?

[wild drift]

The Morrigan has a bunch of great hammers so I'd go hammer if you already have an attack (since Apollo attack is also great for The Morrigan)

[restive merlin]

nn for appolo i only want the duo for ares

it's a chance either way

i could end up getting a bad hammer or not the duo with apollo

[manic shuttle]

Yea take the hammer, cutting edge is not that good of a duo boon

[restive merlin]

huhh, how it's basically double dmg for blades?

[manic shuttle]

But your still wait for the second blade to fall, and it rarely hits

[restive merlin]

i have the other duo which makes it insta fall

[manic shuttle]

Ok yea that one's really good

[restive merlin]

oooh, got a good hammer, do i take +222 dmg or +400% dmg for omega attack

i think omega is better since that's for sure more than just 222 dmg

[manic shuttle]

If you have a good gain +400% damage obv, it's the best morrigan hammer

[full harness]

I got my first win yesterday w zorophet, charon, flutter flourish, chasm, and giga cleaver

not only my first win but my easiest run by a long shot

[restive merlin]

oooof i got the duo for extra blade, but also i got sacrifice boon 45%+wounds or 115%+aoe for attacks

idk which to choose

[manic shuttle]

idk your whole build, duo sounds good

[restive merlin]

my build is as simple as it gets, morrigan +baldes+insta fall

i just don't understand how big the 70% increase in attacks is

yet

[wild drift]

Apollo attack is considered the best on The Morrigan because of the big % and big AoE

[icy ledge]

This game got like a meta?

[flint widget]

meta for what

high fear or speedrunning or what

[gritty widget]

jpom start
parray born gain skull (except hel)
hera atk
zeus spec
thats about it

not insta win
just op

[icy ledge]

I use hepatitis

[gritty widget]

high fear is still high fear

there are also other things that can help this "meta" a ton
like weed killer, fine line, ocean swell etc

[flint widget]

thats for like speedrunning tho

best high fear weapon is staff by far

[gritty widget]

you should use jpom instead once you get it
guaranteeing a god is nice but jpom gives you a random hades boon + 3 lvs for everything

[flint widget]

safest and easiest weapon to play

while also dealing a decent amount of dmg

ofc not as much as skull with possessed

[gritty widget]

right
i shouldve asked context first
you right

[flint widget]

but well take it

[icy ledge]

What that

[flint widget]

oooooooooh they havent reached credits

[gritty widget]

jeweled pom
its a keepsake you get after hitting credits

[flint widget]

once you unlock it

youll never turn back

[icy ledge]

I’ve beaten chronos what it do?

[flint widget]

do u want spoilers

[gritty widget]

i been using it first region ever since i learnt that a jpom is

[gritty widget]

go to surface

[gloomy wind]

Besides ranged options are there any aspects that have moves outside of Aphrodite's range?

I feel like I was doing no dmg with torches Aphrodite's omega special.

[glossy jetty]

Torches are weird with Aphrodite on special because of the isometric view

They make an oval while the range is a circle so it mainly gets the buff on the top and bottom of the orbit

[vernal quiver]

aphro should never be going on the torch special as is

but every weapon has at least something that goes out of aphro range

staff has its special, axe has some edge of its regular attack and Ospec iirc, coat has the special, torches has the special and Oattack if you go eos, skulls if its far enough away, etc etc

as a rule of thumb the range for aphro damage bonus(and her gain) is gonna be a cast circle size centered on melinoe

[gloomy wind]

Thanks

[tough torrent]

Shrimply get the duo that makes your cast follow you

[full harness]

does the unseen arcana activate incandescent aura duo

[delicate sorrel]

What happens if you have Circe + Lightning Lance + Hostile Environment (ocast follows you)?

[split igloo]

hmmm, boated used aphro trick knives in his max fear video and the damage was through the roof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSkj3vMqGjQ

[vernal quiver]

well yeah you dash attack into things so it hits point blank

makes sense to me, average trick slop stuff

[vernal quiver]

i genuinely think that cant happen unless im crazy

[split igloo]

he was also sniping things in fields and tart

[vernal quiver]

it should but unseen sucks

its 5/s that turns off when youre channeling, and for 5 grasp its such a waste when you could just get a decent gain boon and be set

[wild drift]

Yeah Lightning Lance, Glowing Coal, Hostile Environment, Howling Soul, and Tipsy Shot are mutually exclusive

[delicate sorrel]

I knew about the others but not hostile env

[vernal quiver]

yeah anything that directly messes with how the cast is placed locks out the others

[delicate sorrel]

I have epic apollo attack and epic heph special (5 seconds) on Medea + possessed array. I was offered heroic heph attack (2 seconds). Do I take it? I am assuming possessed array doesn't take into account the Olympian damage? (blast)

Alternatively I take epic grand caldera

I know either 2 sec heph attack or possessed array are run-winners by themselves. Just curious which one is better

I also have pos in the god pool so seismic servo is a possibility

[south copper]

I'd do more ding dongs cause funny and a trade is more rare you'll probably see caldera again

[glossy jetty]

With possessed array you absolutely want a percentage god on attack

[static cedar]

ya'll I'm genuinely struggling with aspect of nergal. I can't go past 40 fear

[wild drift]

I would be the same but I just kept resetting until I got Psychic Whirlwind

[static cedar]

it's a bit sad that it's pretty much mandatory to find that hammer or you have to reset

[flint widget]

well its not mandatory, you can still play nergal without it its just that the difference between nergal without psychic and nergal with psychic is huge

[wild drift]

Well not really it's just that I can't play it without lol

But you can rely on the dash-strike + special

[static cedar]

ik but I'm too stupid to think of another build

[static cedar]

true, special with aphro i guess?

[wild drift]

I would say Zeus #1 for Blitz, Hephaestus if you don't want to use it that much, or Ares for Grievous Blow

Demeter for Freeze and Hera for Hitch too but Hera (along with Apollo and Aphro) is best on attack anyway

[static cedar]

mhh, you know what? I'll try it now. I haven't invested much on zeus lately

[icy crypt]

how should i be building morrigan
lwk feels like the 777 is gonna fall off by zone 4

[viral yew]

Literally anything

On hit? Big damage

%damage? Also big damage

[flint widget]

https://giphy.com/gifs/know-does-he-XAeEGyCbp8UehBPkSA

[green mist]

Holy daem I just tried Rivals on Prometheus and I don't know how to even try approaching this

[opal pecan]

Play it like normal, but just sort of dodge around Heracles

It's safer to focus Prometheus first iirc

[split igloo]

focus the lion boy first, it's kind of like the heroes in Hades 1

[opal pecan]

Yeah, but Herc's later phases are more annoying to deal with

[green mist]

Even Eris feels to me like twice the threat that Typhon is on normal

[vernal quiver]

i focus prom until he phases then damage herc during that

[opal pecan]

If you get Prom out of the way first you can free up more of your brain RAM to deal with Heracles

Especially since Prometheus is the more familiar part of the fight anyway

[split igloo]

the spin? the big aoe is trivial

[wild drift]

He gets more shockwaves

[split igloo]

the hardest part is if they both phase at the same time and you have to dodge 5 flames while the unga-bunga man is running after you, don't let that happen

but still, it's surprisingly one of the easier rivals bosses IMO, I've only died to them once I think, it's a big arena, you can just keep running away if you're not liking the pattern

[green mist]

Aren't they a bit overturned for a +2 heat increase? Or am I just that bad at this

[split igloo]

don't facetank ever, it's not worth it

only attack when you get a clean opening

[glossy jetty]

Moving the convo here

Strength makes non-percentage gods less viable, yeah?

Iirc it gives around 30% damage, though I don't remember if it's global or not

[vernal quiver]

20% and yes its global, but thats not enough to make any gods less viable

zeus will still be zeus, scorch is affected by globals, posiedon with 20% bonus is basically a good pom or 2 and the weapons hes on dont want %

[glossy jetty]

Didn't know scorch got affected by globals actually

It just applies more scorch?

[vernal quiver]

mhm! otherwise it would actually be unusable without pyro tech lol

[vernal quiver]

no the tick rate goes up

[glossy jetty]

Ooooooh

[vernal quiver]

so the 100/s with just strength becomes 120/s and so on

iirc that is if someone that knows more about the code than i do wants to correct

but afaik yea scorch tick rate is affected by globals, if it wasnt shed be the worst god in the game 😭

[glossy jetty]

That's fair

[opal pecan]

Correction

Strength and other global damage boosts do NOT increase Scorch tickrate or stacks

What they increase is the amount of damage done by each tick

Pyro Technique increases tickrate (in other words, it removes the Scorch stacks faster in order to do the increased damage) -- that's different from Strength/etc

And cast damage buffs like Chaos' Chasm blessing increase the stacks applied by Smoulder Ring

[split igloo]

it's probably just the final step of the damage calculation, so it increases all sources of damage by 20%, same as origination

[opal pecan]

Yes, Origination is also a global damage boost

Lion's Fang is another

[static cedar]

I beat Typhon with nergal, thank you^^

[drifting rose]

Would an aspect of Medea build be good with hestia special

Or should I just keep Zeus

[magic grove]

medea is just that good that it probably works, but its not the optimal

i've used hestia on attack before on medea

[vernal quiver]

yeah medea works with literally anything

[magic grove]

medea 2 random curses go brrr

[drifting rose]

Ahhh alr thank yall

[vernal quiver]

best case is zeus special hera attack but like, put anything on anything and its still medea and it attacks fast enough for scorch and waves to do plenty of work

[opal pecan]

Now I want to theorycraft the worst possible Medea build

(assuming fully filled out cores ofc)

Obviously if we include Scorch, we can't have Pyro Technique, though

[night lagoon]

Poseidon attack, Hestia Special

Actually, no

Poseidon Attack, Demeter special

[opal pecan]

I was thinking the reverse but would love to hear your reasoning

Wait why Demeter special

[night lagoon]

Low percentage with nothing to really offset it like you would with a Wounds core

[vernal quiver]

lowest % scaler with no cool 2nd tier to make it strong yeah

[opal pecan]

Ah

[vernal quiver]

at least i think shes lowest that sounds right

plus freeze will throw off your timings lol

[opal pecan]

HAH

[night lagoon]

Ares is lower but has the Wounds proc and Wounds T2s

[vernal quiver]

ohhh yeah i forget im too used to grievous spiking my dps

[night lagoon]

I also think he scales better with poms?

[vernal quiver]

so what if we do pos attack, demeter special, heph cast, blades dash, and idk tranquil gain

[split igloo]

Zeus will be number 1 on the damage board if you get the special, blitz pops instantly on Medea, that's the whole point

[night lagoon]

But anyways, reason why I don't think Hestia is the worst pick for the Attack is because Hestia in the pool means eventual access to Slow Cooker

[vernal quiver]

so no orig, waves messes with crowd damage, demeter will give you nothing but weird timings, and the rest is just there so you dont get orig

[night lagoon]

Plus you can pump up the Scorch application enough to consistently keep 100 Scorch active

Oh, true, didn't even think about splashes not providing Origination out of the box

[wild drift]

Hestia attack Poseidon special was the Foolish 67 build right

(bugged Heroic Storm Ring in the corner)

[flint widget]

yes

cursed build

[night lagoon]

No, his 67F Surface clear had Hera attack

Wait, his 67F UW was Poseidon/Hestia. Ew

[magic grove]

medea moment

[vernal quiver]

medea does just win huh

the one aspect that doesnt care about boons at all

[night lagoon]

Yeah, and that was Unseen Update, so Scorch was only ticking down at 80/second then

[spiral wadi]

unseen was when scorch was 100/sec

warsong and prior was 80/sec scorch

[hollow stag]

What’s the combo chain of using Staff without Omegas?

Is it dash, special, then attack?

[spiral wadi]

dash attack special

[formal herald]

Is there a specific familiar considered the best?

Not sure which one to upgrade first

[vernal quiver]

depends what you want

gale is the safest by miles and just gets more worthwhile the better you get at the game, but raki is solid damage and built in pressure points so for damage and speed theyre the best

frinos has 2 uses and thats being lazy at dodging hecate morph and nergal, hecuba is outdone by a half lucky gain boon timing, and toula has ok damage but managing her is obnoxious but her hitstun is nice for supay early on

[hollow stag]

You mean Dash-Attack, then Special?

[formal herald]

Thanks for the explanation

[somber beacon]

raki is also the best one to use with the aspect of circe, unless you want to put in the effort to make sure toula never sleeps (which I don't). that's the main reason I use raki as my default familiar

[split igloo]

Raki and Gale are the best ones yeah, but Frinos is nice too, +40 hp just for free + some passive projectile blocking
Hecuba is nice for when you're playing Moros or Charon, because these aspects are otherwise unusable until you get a good gain boon
I don't take Toula at all because she disables the Strength arcana, and she does nothing anyway unless you dash into her, dumb cat

[mystic mango]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1492255331210756349/1BBA771.MP4?ex=69e5df53&is=69e48dd3&hm=0d4d7e3a078425d058d25ca5d5638da5181a2cd4734dc71af453c798ce29705a&

I missed the spacing on one of them but this is at least how it’s used on bosses

On normal encounters the strategy is to usually set up your attack and oattack then pull enemies into it with the special and omega special. On early regions you can make use of all the shades that spawn to pick off far away enemies. You just gotta be ready to dodge when you’re pulling enemies in. The omega special is also a lot more worth using on Anubis than on normal staff since it pulls enemies to its center and then deals damage, so it can hurt enemies from way further away

[drifting rose]

Any good end game builds?

[magic grove]

do you mean like, arcana setups?

[drifting rose]

Like weapon set up what booms to use with the builds n stuff

[magic grove]

ah, there's a cool guide for each weapon on the pinned message on this channel! its very detailed and pretty good

but what weapon do you wanna use? i can give you a build idea

[drifting rose]

Sorry for the late reply but the moon axe

[storm gyro]

what starting keepsakes do yall like, excluding the post game ones

[magic grove]

mel aspect? you can get something with a good %dmg on your attack like aphro or apollo and then a curse on your special like blitz(zeus) or hitch(hera) then a second curse to proc origination and youre good to go

hitch/freeze and even wounds on attack works too. apollo and aphro just give bigger %dmg (in exchange of not applying a curse immediatly)

apollo gives more range tho, which helps a lot

[magic grove]

if i'm not starting jpom then i'm starting with a god keepsake, its pretty much the best thing to do

[storm gyro]

which ones you like, I feel like zeus is a big one poeple like, thats what Im using (dont have pom)

[magic grove]

depends on the aspect

[drifting rose]

Ookkk thx alot

[drifting rose]

What about one for the Charon aspect

[magic grove]

apollo mana regen, its infinite mana glitch, then apply 2 curses somehow and gg
super nova from apollo is pretty good, geyser spout from poseidon also really good
just a tip: you can dash mid omega-special

don't bother with attacks, just cast->ospecial repeat

[drifting rose]

Alr thx again

[drifting rose]

Will it still work if I haven’t upgraded th aspect much?

[magic grove]

hmm i don't remember what charon gets when you upgade it... but i think it should be fine

[drifting rose]

Alr thx again

[drifting rose]

He gets cleave cast size and damage

[dusk lagoon]

Any builds for the Charon aspect?

[south copper]

Get cast and special based boons

[dusk lagoon]

Which gods would they be?

[austere trail]

apollo on special and lucid gain + super nova

poseidon on cast and geyser spout

get whatever else you like (just not winner's circe from hermes)
profit

[split igloo]

hera special is really nice too

but really, lucid gain is the most crucial, otherwise you'll have no magic and the whole run will fall apart

[austere trail]

if you're not on fw then apollo is a must take, yeah

[gritty widget]

ty

[hexed spade]

Is it a patch or does Eos’s Omega Attack no longer trigger when you are holding attack while a day breaker is already active? I love this change but want to make sure I’m not crazy to think this is a recent change

[spiral wadi]

prob spawned a phantom daybreaker that shows up but doesn't actually attack,

[hexed spade]

Let me rephrase there is a time where I remember that if I held down attack Mel will constantly try to charge for omega but now she won’t charge again unless I press something else and then hold attack again. I specifically remember this because I used to hate Eos for doing that

[spiral wadi]

oh i see, yea if u hold attack when daybreak spawns, u won't spawn another daybreak unless u let go of atk and start attacking again

[gloomy wind]

How does Fate's Whim work with Judgment Arcana? If you get a roll card does it disable it?

[austere trail]

can't get dice arcana from judgement when using fates whim

[gloomy wind]

Nice

[drifting rose]

What’s an good black coat build

Booms hammers n all if you feel like it

[lyric summit]

Shimmering Rockets with Hera/Zeus special for good crowd control

[glossy jetty]

Hestia Attack / Zeus Special is also probably a good bet

Arc flash static electricity air quality

Plus their duo probably goes crazy

[hexed spade]

Posideon attack works well as well, dash strike has great coverage, exhaust riser makes it even better.

Hera dash is great with it too

[split igloo]

my fav is poseidon attack (w/ slippery slope ofc), hera special, and launcher frame hammer (automatically shoot rockets when punching), it's comfy

[flat epoch]

Just had a dream dive with VoR Typhon, then Prom, then Scylla , then Eris (💀)

[mystic mango]

You can continue firing infinitely after Oattack happens but stopping and starting again will try to spawn another. Are you saying that didn’t happen?

[drifting rose]

Which aspect?

[split igloo]

mel

[drifting rose]

Do you know an good build for the aspect of nyx

[icy crypt]

are the funko pops locked behind the hookups?

[hexed spade]

I am saying I remember eos was constantly charging for Oattack even if I don't release it and re charge, but now it doesn't anymore so I can safely spam attacks

it's a long time since I tried eos so it could just be me going crazy lol

Oh I just realized premium service momus could be couter productive for clangs

[night lagoon]

The same as Mel Coat

Nyx is effectively a better Mel Coat because of the duplicated Attack and Special when Nightspawn is active

[drifting rose]

Alr ty

Anyone got an good staff build

[hexed spade]

which staff

lol a pun

[drifting rose]

Aspect of mel

[hexed spade]

Ah, Aphro special, dual moon shot, best to work with poseidon since his duo removes her distance restriction. That being said dual moon shot makes the speical into a melee range weapon

[night lagoon]

Blitz on Attack, any percentage Special

[hexed spade]

Anything that offers high % is fair game for Mel staff special, you can use apollo instead of you want to be safe, plus it makes the omega speical chunky in size.

[night lagoon]

The Special does, IIRC, 80 base damage at rank 5, so any percentage Boon will make it instantly pop Blitz

[hexed spade]

I feel bad for putting Hera on it since hitch relies on coverage, but yes.

[night lagoon]

I mean, the OSpecial has an AoE to it

[hexed spade]

true

[clear sail]

can someone uhh briefly explain the aspect of shiva for me bc im not sure i understand how it works properly

[hexed spade]

You need to stay in the omega special blast range much like eris rail for the first game, and you release all your stacks from the ospecial with your oattack

[clear sail]

ahhhh ok the thing w/ the o attack i didnt get wait

i thought it was that u absorb ur special and gives u a damage boost

is it just that absorbing ospecial boost oattack and only o attack

[hexed spade]

yes

[clear sail]

oh 😭 that's much lamer than i thought it was

[hexed spade]

Sadly it is, but big numbers! You can also use apollo special to boost the ospecial coverage

Don't mind too much getting the max stacks if your shiva rank is high is my only advice (I don't like the coat in general)

[clear sail]

i dont like any of the coat's aspects except mel's frankly

[alpine raft]

don't dash strike on shiva it's real bad

[viral yew]

As a shiva main, can confirm

At max you want 3 ranks

[hexed spade]

Oh same, nothing beats speed boost, plus it plays nicely with Hestia and Poseidon

[clear sail]

whenever i play mel coat i get dissapointed abt how slow mel is otherwise lmao 😭 feels like they strapped bricks to her ankles

[hexed spade]

My issue with the coat is I feel my hands are very sore compared to the other weapons since I rely on the dash strike a lot, and I really do not like the oattack despite knowing it's value

[clear sail]

its lke the game equiv of stepping off a treadmill

[hexed spade]

Esepcially with weapons like circe and moros are just so busted for very little investment

[clear sail]

also q iis aspect of the morrigan good bc i havent played a lot w/ it but i just prefer either mel's aspect or artemis' so much more... i feel like the blood triad thing could only be helpful for bosses

otherwise its too much investment to setup and it doesn't seem to have any other boosts? i also dislike its special compared to the normal special .... but idk if im just not seeing it yknow

[alpine raft]

the moveset is crazy good even if you can't triad normal enemies

[hexed spade]

Morrigan changes the blades from fast and frequent to something that's more deliberate and planned, getting the triad rhythm going is like proc'ing heph blasts but you can now control when exactly you want to pop it off

[alpine raft]

usually you can and should though

[clear sail]

do i even bother using the triad on normal enemies 😭

[white sorrel]

Anyone have a morrigan build

[clear sail]

ok well that makes sense my fav thing abt the bladesis how . spammy they are for lack of a better word

esp with the o special on artemis just sort of snapping me back and forth the arena

[hexed spade]

I will concede on the ospecial for morrigan is very lame, I rarely use it. There is value for certain players where they kite it around but it just feels so bad

[clear sail]

*i actually meant o attack i realize (for artemis)

[alpine raft]

yea ignore morrigan o special really

[clear sail]

the other one that confuses me is aspect of anubis. it just seemed so ineffectual the time i tried it. htough idk how much of this was bc it was a chaos trial and frankly not ideal boons. which gods go best w/ that?

[hexed spade]

I use any of the two gods on attack or special to get origination, but I always get one of Banshee or Phantom brand for the hammer. I love using Ares on attack since I also run plasma with it.

[hexed spade]

Slap poisedon or hestia, do not use it's ospecial, huh I am senseing a theme here with ospecial and hidden aspects lol.

[viral yew]

Pos or hestia attack

[clear sail]

✍🏿

[viral yew]

Ospecial anubis is amazing wdym

[clear sail]

tbh i have completely forgotten what its ospecial is lmao

[hexed spade]

Ok let me repharse, do not spam it lol

[clear sail]

oh wait it draws enemies towards u right

[viral yew]

I primarily spam it for my speedrun builds

Insane channel time for how much damage it gives

[clear sail]

ohhh wait i see ur meant to basically set a trap and draw thing s into it

[viral yew]

Pretty much

[clear sail]

wait does poseidon on anbuis fire continously or smthn ?

[magic grove]

i just finish an anubis run and click here and people are talking about anubis

[viral yew]

Ignore the lone shades thing btw it sucks

[clear sail]

or i guess its jsut contiously pushing them out

[hexed spade]

I rarely use it's ospecal because it's so magic hungry and the regular special is good enough, but I do not do speed runs. Anubis's value is like a quick weapon since it's AOE ticks so frequently

[clear sail]

i could intuit that (i really don't understand the point of it)

[viral yew]

Yeah you don't need it, but it's viable

[clear sail]

funny thing my last run was artemis blades but i accidentally took several magic priming boons and ended up w/ 5 mana and just didnt end up using the o attack at all 😭

[magic grove]

ospecial anubis is really funny

[viral yew]

I remember when it still had the dem bug

Goood times

[hexed spade]

You can lay cast on top of the anubis attacks for fun interactions

[clear sail]

random question someone here i think said smthn to the effect of 'no one uses the o moves on aspect of hel' which baffled me like... am i playing it wrong or smthn i love using the ospecial so much

[hexed spade]

Do not listen to whoever said that lol, Hel is really fun

[magic grove]

ospecial is bait, oattack is strong now with helheim charge

[clear sail]

i basically just go from ospeccial - attack - retrieve ospecial - o special - attack ad nauseum lmao

[hexed spade]

and I think you mean the hel oattack

hel's oattack is ??

Since you constantly should be in valkyrie mode so oattack rarely shows up

[clear sail]

? which is the one that tosses the skull around the arena

[magic grove]

the ospecial takes too long to cast, not worth it

[hexed spade]

You said hel, which is the hidden skull, fires the attack like a rail

[magic grove]

the oattack is good this patch after the buffs, if you get the helheim charge hammer its really broken

[clear sail]

this patch? like recently

[viral yew]

Disconnected is right lol

[clear sail]

i guess ill try it. havent played it on the new patch yet

[magic grove]

yeah

it was ass before

[hexed spade]

Oh right, did they boost the damage? Haven't tried oattack for this patch yet

[magic grove]

its just faster iirc

[clear sail]

true

[magic grove]

the thing about valkyrie is that ospecial takes too long to cast so you're succeptible to taking damage

and when youre in valkyrie attacking non stop is strong but you still wanna dash around to avoid damage so... why bother

you can play hel by just doing regular special and regular attack its pretty decent

[hexed spade]

Randomly related, Hel was the one made me realize you want the flood gain on exactly at how long valkyrie last and buffing it too much can be conterproductive lol

[clear sail]

ok but have u considered; its really fun watching ospecial bounce around the arena

[magic grove]

the regular special also bounces

[clear sail]

not as much

[magic grove]

in fact hitch on special is really strong

[hexed spade]

Hitch on ospecial is just Hera forcing the entire arena to ship each other and die

[clear sail]

i should try hitch on special. i haven't done a hitch run. huh. i haven't gotten hera at all recently 😭

[magic grove]

but i mean, yeah, ospecial still really fun and if youre not running like frenzy 2 its pretty chill to use despite the long cast time

[clear sail]

true im not that high fear

like. 12 at highest atm. i have yet to attempt 16

[somber beacon]

those of you who have tested more extensively, is there ever a time where cardio gain is better than grisly gain now?

is there any aspect where cardio is preferable

[hexed spade]

Hel is one weapon I can think of that cardio gain still works the best for it from the top of my head. It's just grisly gain before was never really even a magic regen tool for me but now it is.

[somber beacon]

hm, that makes sense. though i wonder if grisly gain couldnt keep up with hel's spend just as well, even though its only a 20% chance per strike the gain is quite a bit higher

[hexed spade]

On my testing Grisly worked really well on Moros, that alone is enough for me. Since you can boost it further with other plasma boons

Granted I never really dived into how well each gain works, just how it feels to me when playing.

[somber beacon]

true, and attack speed is really fun. though i guess cardio is more consistent because you dont have to run around the arena making sure to collect your plasma

[wild drift]

Cardio Gain best for Mirrored Thrasher, works well for Nyx, and can sustain Possessed Array decently

[somber beacon]

yeah i havent gone super in depth with the testing either, but from my experience its hard to imagine a time where grisly wouldnt be good

[hexed spade]

Grisly on itself before patch 2 is very finicky for me.

[somber beacon]

i have used high level cardio gain with possessed and enjoyed it, though im still not sure if its more consistent than a high level grisly gain. but i suppose it probably is

and for nyx, the only magick i spend is for dashing every once in a while. maybe its just a playstyle difference

[wild drift]

Well yeah same guess I shouldn't have mentioned it cause literally any regen works for it lol

[somber beacon]

XD nah youre good

[wild drift]

And you'd probably rather have Glamour anyway

[somber beacon]

i just feel like even if cardio gain is fine in many scenarios, grisly gain is likely better almost all of the time. it would be cool if they reworked hestias gain, maybe make it like reverse-scorch. where the more you attack the more you "heat up", and the hotter you are the faster you regenerate magick over time

so its not good if youre just sitting around waiting to pop your next omega move, like on shiva, but it is good if youre mixing omega moves and non-omega moves, which feels like the role it was supposed to fill before ares got buffed to just do that but better

[wet olive]

I have this niche build idea thats probably hard to pull off because rng but what if i go than axe, hestia attack and some of her support boons like pyro technique then go full apollo to try and get his legendary

[viral yew]

Why hestia

Also not niche or hard to get at all

[wet olive]

Scorch melts bosses health bars

[viral yew]

It's bad on axe

[wet olive]

Oh

[viral yew]

Than is ok with it, but you'd want zues, hera, or apollo

[wet olive]

I need to gift hera for her keepsake but i do have her now

Okay if you don't get zeus attack what do i take

I got special, cast and ionic gain

[turbid karma]

scorch is really nice on weapons with fast attack speed and lowish base damage! Axe is generally the opposite (than exempted, as luthien mentioned)

[viral yew]

if u have zeus special it doesnt really matter

[glossy jetty]

just used charon axe

axe is usable...?

[vernal quiver]

Bro doesnt know about 62f+

[glossy jetty]

no i dont #SixFearPlayer

i just dont like playing AROUND my attack sequence most of the time lmao

btw, jewled pom doesnt work retroactively correct? you only get the levels when you're actively choosing the boons?

[vernal quiver]

Yep

Hence why we take it r1

[glossy jetty]

is there any time you take it off?

[viral yew]

You take it off r2

[vernal quiver]

Yeah whim keepsakes stay active once its removed as long as you dont break whim

[glossy jetty]

ohhhhhhhhh awesome

...god keepsakes count as dice??

[tropic spade]

They don't count as dice but they're used to "alter fate" (i.e., rng) the same way dice are

[glossy jetty]

ran into a worm like an idiot and died anyway whaaaaaaatever

lesson learned

[mystic mango]

So what are you playing @knotty nexus

Like just one aspect you really like that you’d want to get better with

[knotty nexus]

Like
Cast olympian curse boon
Cast blade rift from ares
Cast Athena boon
Cast gust from demeter
Cast damage card

It gets pretty nice just to be sure these can all be stacked right?

[knotty nexus]

Almost 70-80% of the game runs or best runs of mine are with aspect of circe as I love the double cast

[mystic mango]

Yes those all stack but like casts are very slow for room clear and don’t do that much damage without a very strong core cast boon

[mystic mango]

Well now see that’s VERY different context

[knotty nexus]

And on the weapon hmm
I am just a very close range fast paced player
I don't like the axe at all

[mystic mango]

You never said Circe

You never said THE CAST WEAPON

[knotty nexus]

I mean yeah xdd

But regardless i do use a cast build in other weapons too

[mystic mango]

The weapon that literally makes casts actually not ass

[knotty nexus]

Double cast 2xing every single cast boon
It gets so freakin satisfying

Oh yeah wait there exists
Hestias cast bomb
Hades cast boon too

[mystic mango]

Well so aside from cast on circe staff you mainly want to aim for something like Zeus attack Hera special but flat buffs like Poseidon or Hestia aren’t bad

On staff you basically never use omegas so glamour gain is fine and a free curse and damage reduction

[knotty nexus]

Posideon often gives where in the cast it's only damage not a curse so i just go with hestias

[mystic mango]

Your rush doesn’t really matter much but staff loves spamming dash attack special combos so passion rush or thunder rush is good

[knotty nexus]

Can we just use names like charged attack and charged special and stuff?
I am really bad with names so

[mystic mango]

? You mean geyser spout?

The one that gives cast power?

[knotty nexus]

I thinkso yeah where there's not a curse but just power

[mystic mango]

That one is really strong cause you’re multiplying the damage of the omega cast explosion by like over 2.5x with jpom

The base cast damage is 150 so at even common that’s 400

[knotty nexus]

I quite like black coat too
The charged attack is really strong

[mystic mango]

Ehhhhhhh

You’re better off using Poseidon and spamming dash attack

[knotty nexus]

Can you stack a curse on it afterwards tho?

[mystic mango]

Yes

[knotty nexus]

Oh that's nice

[mystic mango]

That’s not a core boon. It’s a tier 2 boon

It can go on any cast

[knotty nexus]

Posideon and hestia has a steam boon too right?

That's pretty good yeah?

[mystic mango]

So if you’re doing an omega cast build there’s no reason not to take it

Scalding is quite good

[knotty nexus]

Oh that's handyy
Is it different from the one where you aim the cast and it explodes? Or that's the same boon type?

[mystic mango]

Okay so like slow down a second

[knotty nexus]

Yeah

[mystic mango]

Are you asking for help with cast builds or weapons

Cause like you seem to know fine how a cast build works

[knotty nexus]

Am just chatting around lol
I just wanna know what God to look out for when using different weapon types

[mystic mango]

Okay so what weapon

[knotty nexus]

Like i know Aphrodite is good with sister blades
What about axe?

[mystic mango]

I know I’m just chatting too but like I’m trying to reign in if we’re finding something to discuss

Aphro is only really good on trick knives or Morrigan attack tbh

[knotty nexus]

mb
I just wanna make axe not suck for me because it's speed is bad

And I love fast paced combat

[mystic mango]

How do you normally play axe

It’s very fast when you use it right

[knotty nexus]

Do you use the morrigan ability? The blood trial

[knotty nexus]

I quite liked charon because of the cast but that's pretty much it

[mystic mango]

Axe when you aren’t using Charon or psychic whirlwind is 90% dash attack and special with an occasional sweeping attack to clear a large group or apply curses

So on Charon I want you to try something

Are you on the game?

[knotty nexus]

what's psychic whirlwind? Charged spin attack?

[knotty nexus]

Nope not rn

[mystic mango]

Gives you full movement and abilities while whirlwind is active and is the single best hammer on everything but Charon and is still amazing even on Charon

[knotty nexus]

Ohh that's good to know

One more thing actually few more things one sec

[mystic mango]

Let me grab a clip one second

[knotty nexus]

Anubis I somehow pulled through a run
Supay am not sure though it was really hard to use last time I tried a run with it but regardless i need to do a run for bearing dark gifts prophecy

[mystic mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1490081004973723818/475A431.MP4?ex=69e730d3&is=69e5df53&hm=46c7c0705946c5776569cb06b07ac430c3ded04816d556f21c1e9d660c1b22e3&

This is what you can do with psychic whirlwind

[knotty nexus]

Oh damn so full movement with the attack

[mystic mango]

And that wasn’t even a fast kill by my standards

[knotty nexus]

I've had a bit faster kill with circe myself but that is not at all a slow kill really good

[mystic mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1489692442344296458/40F4731.MP4?ex=69e71873&is=69e5c6f3&hm=8a75bf1f8ceef1848c19d93ecfb522fe24a7facb1a603a80f477cce0779a27d5&

[mystic mango]

Yeah it was a pretty mediocre kill but still shows the ability

It’s the only psychic clips I had posted

I’ve had way faster kills before

[knotty nexus]

This is extremely good for rooms too right if am not mistaken

[mystic mango]

Yes it’s the best hammer for good reason

[knotty nexus]

So far the worst aspects I have used are probably
Supay and medea
(Am about to get shot)

[mystic mango]

Here uhhhh let me grab somebody’s 6:06 surface run you can watch

It’s an insanely strong run and makes massive use of psychic

[broken spoke]

Medea playstyle is just attack special loop

Loading all attack before special is bait

[knotty nexus]

Video has been removed by uploader

[broken spoke]

Once you get used to attack special loop medea is fast and strong

[mystic mango]

Ah right forgot because they had editing bugs

It caused footage to skip

[knotty nexus]

How hard is the learning curve on it? I hear people say it's really good

[mystic mango]

Either way just use psychic it’s incredible

[broken spoke]

Not hard, the hard thing is avoid dmg

[mystic mango]

Psychic with a % damage attack is insane work

[broken spoke]

Because medea playstyle is on enemy face

[mystic mango]

And making use of special to apply stuff like blitz is huge

[knotty nexus]

Yeah I'll keep that in mind on axe

[mystic mango]

Medea is insanely strong but counterintuitive to player conditioning

You don’t WANT to ram your face into everything but you have to

And when you learn to use it it’s INSANE

[knotty nexus]

Yeah medea is still close range

[mystic mango]

Medea is hands down, no competition, the best aspect in the game

[knotty nexus]

I'll try the learning curve of medea once I am done with all the achivements
2 left
The chaos achivements basically

[mystic mango]

Only thing that comes close is Mel staff due to how safe it is and how insanely strong the special is

[broken spoke]

Circe

Safe and strong

[knotty nexus]

Yeah mel stafe is incredibly safe and probably one of reason I love crice

[broken spoke]

Trick knife blade

[velvet light]

I only have 3 weapons, the witch's staff, the sister blades and the axe, which one is the best to use for the fight with Hecate

[knotty nexus]

I have had really good runs with circe
Wait actually all my good runs are with circe lol

[mystic mango]

Circe still is outclassed by Mel but happily takes third place

[knotty nexus]

Circe is 3rd best? I'll take that anyday

[mystic mango]

Whichever one you enjoy

All weapons are viable in the category of enjoying yourself

[velvet light]

oh okay

thx

[mystic mango]

Every weapon in the game has cleared everything but the absolute highest difficulty in the game

[knotty nexus]

Well thanks for the help guys
Gtg for lunch

[mystic mango]

They’re all viable

There is only a handful of weapon aspects that haven’t cleared max fear

And it’s more a matter of nobody trying it yet than whether it’s possible

“F tier” weapons as some people have called them have cleared max fear

Like Selene/Shiva coat, pan/artemis blades, Hel skull

[gloomy wind]

Is there any kind of logic to what shows up when you have travel deal from herms. Specifically on his shops. I just expedited a boon reward and I thought I was going to get another boon like what happens in Charon shops but it was a max HP. I checked the wiki but it says only another item of equal quality should be showing up. I don't think I've ever had travel deal while expediting something from his shop before so this is new to me. Are there different rules on what can appear?

[viral yew]

Heart is counted as a mjor reward iirc

[gloomy wind]

Oh. I guess that makes sense. 25 max is good but I don't think I've seen that before. TIL

[wild drift]

Yup I just love how Erebus can range from 2 boons to 8 boons very funny game

[gloomy wind]

So does that mean I've just been lucky af? Every single time I've ever bought a boon from a Charon shop with travel deal I've had a non mystery boon replace it. I don't take travel deal that often but enough.

[viral yew]

I've never had it happen either tbh

[gloomy wind]

Maybe there's a difference between Charon shop and Hermes shop

[mystic mango]

Hermes shop can’t give more than one of the same reward

So you can’t get a second boon bag

The pool on the middle and bottom space is always boon, Selene, Hermes, max health, magick

And the top is always health, armor or death defiances

Travel deal can only give you another item from the pool of that space, not the same one and not something that was available or already purchased from another space

Hope that all helps @gloomy wind

[gloomy wind]

Thank you

[mystic mango]

If you don’t see something on there and have travel deal you can rush order something and something you do want might appear

[gloomy wind]

This is good info to have

[mystic mango]

So even if there’s health and magick it will guarantee a boon or Selene will appear

Very much so. I spent the last week attempting to maximize boon count on surface

Record was 58 boons

60+ is entirely possible

66 literally crashes the game

[gloomy wind]

That's a lot of boons. Is there a way to avoid the meta currency from showing up? How were you able to do that?