#h2-builds-and-combat

1 messages · Page 255 of 1

spiral wadi
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messenger works if ur holding atk on flames

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so u can shift to any direction super quickly

gritty solstice
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Hitch?

olive sphinx
glass bone
spiral wadi
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did u unlock surface yet

spiral wadi
olive sphinx
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ohhhhh

olive sphinx
gritty solstice
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Yeah, yeah. But, i don't see why Hitch will be usefull.

(i don't play with Umbral Flames so much, btw

spiral wadi
olive sphinx
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gotcha

glass bone
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Oh. Hitch because the crits I believe can increase your damage on hitched enemies.

spiral wadi
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unless u get +1 special hammer (hidden helix), then u can just spam special LOL

gritty solstice
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ok

spiral wadi
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no boon this clip but u can see how insane hidden helix is

gritty solstice
glass bone
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So with Mel Flames 62 done, what is next for 62s?

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As in, what else has not been cleared by anyone?

spiral wadi
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i think sister blades? i don't wanna do that tho

gritty solstice
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Yeah

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i'm playing the game since the start of the year

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and didn't figure it out how to use Mel Blades

glass bone
stray pivot
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APhrdite attack

Bottom text

spiral wadi
glass bone
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Got it. If no one else does, I may consider Artemis.

gritty solstice
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some guys said that i should use the hidden trick knives, but, i do not like depend on hammer boons

glass bone
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Though idk how high I can push it cause Circe 62 was rough for me.

spiral wadi
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tho pan nerf might require trick knives more lmao

stray pivot
glass bone
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Morrigan though is probably one of the harder aspects to master.

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Really fun. But a challenge for sure. And unique also

stray pivot
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Yeah

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I love it so much

upper rapids
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Just as a general question
How many runs on avg does it feel like you guys gotta do before getting a build to come together and pop off
And do you just press give up then salute at the shrine or carry it out

Im wondering if my count of runs is too inflated by the fact that i didnt use give up as a feature

glass bone
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I wonder what’ll unlock the key to Artemis. I feel like it could be a Flood Gain weapon.

glass bone
upper rapids
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Sounds reasonable

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Still a way from 50ish

glass bone
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As for the number of runs….. it varies a lot. Took me a single attempt for Supay, took about 5 for Nyx, and for the 62, probably about 30-50 attempts of either dying or giving up.

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There will be some runs where you clutch it by skill, and others by luck

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The nature of a Roguelite.

upper rapids
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Tru

stray pivot
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Supay its just that broken lmfao

glass bone
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To be fair, I did get reaaally lucky

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By the end, I had a level 10 Heroic Breaker Rush.

upper rapids
glass bone
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If I aimed for 62, I doubt I’d get it first try. Or the second. Or the third.

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It would probably take many, many tries for me personally. But I can see myself figuring it out if I spend many hours.

upper rapids
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Makes sense

glass bone
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What weapon are you aiming for with a 50+?

stray pivot
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Mel Coat

glass bone
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**unless you got one or more already

upper rapids
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Oh not really aiming for any fear just gradually rising up and having fun

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Highest i got is i believe 45 surface supay by sheer facetanking

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Now im just trolling with beetroot soup build

glass bone
# stray pivot Mel Coat

That one gave me some trouble. I had a good run at 43, and it involved Poseidon Attack, King’s Tide, and Exhaust Rider.

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Haven’t gotten a 50+ for Mel Coat just yet.

stray pivot
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Pan?

glass bone
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That doesn’t work with this Strat.

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Pan nowadays is Trick Knives the weapon, though it can get a 32/50 like all weapons post-nerf, and probably without Trick Knives if the player is skilled enough.

civic ocean
stray pivot
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That must have been fun

main beacon
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hey guys two questions about percent chances

  1. is daze completely separate from dodge? so like, hermes dodge boon giving +28.75% and then daze will stack for a total of 48.75%?
  2. does the hermes boon that increases percent chance affect arcana cards? specifically the ones that increase the chance for a rare or epic boon
glass bone
spiral wadi
glass bone
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I haven’t yet uploaded the video though, because I haven’t even started the artwork for the 50 Fear ones…

stray pivot
upper rapids
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Dont daze and dodge display different texts
One says missed
Another dodged

glass bone
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Scorch Cast. Turns out it’s really busted right now

stray pivot
glass bone
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Global Boosts stack twice with Scorch Cast, and no other scorch boons. Once for the damage you deal with cast, and another time for the scorch damage itself iirc.

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Go ask unexplainedbacn / look up that much earlier in this chat for a full explanation.

main beacon
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I see. I get the concept of two different checks but in my mind i'm not certain how those numbers don't directly add up

spiral wadi
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ye basically global modifiers now amplify both the amount of scorch that is applied (cast only), on top of the damage that scorch does (default scorch behavior)

glass bone
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The bug is the applied scorch. So Medea Scorch Cast has 2 bugs in your favor.

spiral wadi
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seems like an intended feature tbh tbh

stray pivot
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Surtely

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Like Beowulf double cast!

spiral wadi
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watch 1.0 they merge pyro tech into cast

glass bone
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Yeah but Circe has the double cast now

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That would be annoying. Really hope they don’t do that to nerf Anubis and Nyx (and some other weapons I’m forgetting about)

main beacon
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who remembers when hestia had a boon that spawned 3 bones that turned into 3 hestia boons. bring that feature back

spiral wadi
spiral wadi
glass bone
spiral wadi
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LOL tru

main beacon
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hey now i'm thinking way back and didn't hestia also used to have a boon that healed on every single strike..? like way way long ago

spiral wadi
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i only started playing in warsong so idk, sounds fun tho

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ig it's on ares now at under 40 hp not that max scars lets me get it anyway

glass bone
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red you should try smuggling in healing boons for 62. I would, but I’m not yet skilled enough to have essentially more than 1 onion for a region like that.

spiral wadi
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the 1% healing strat

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"boonless" and it's just healing boons that don't do anything

upper rapids
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Upon my worst enemies, i wish " anubis attack versus frenzy eris "

glass bone
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Anubis Attack isn’t that bad.

spiral wadi
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just romantic spark blitz spec smh smh

glass bone
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Now Hell / Heaven Splitter vs Frenzy Eris. That’s a real nightmare.

upper rapids
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Failed many a runs with hel into eris

rotund totem
glass bone
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True. But I meant to say that there’s slower attacks

stray pivot
rotund totem
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But anubis is really good anyways its good that it melts whenever it gets to hit

surreal hazel
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Dumb find today. Ares Double damage chances can affect enemies standing in magma in the Unrivalled Cerberus fight

upper rapids
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Wack

uneven palm
spiral wadi
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yooooo sick

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i wonder if island getaway is worth and just superinvest into spec/ospec

uneven palm
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That’s what I had above. O specials are sometimes in range without Island Getaway but it’s nice to not worry about it

spiral wadi
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o interesting

uneven palm
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Yeah weirdness with the isometric perspective and also which part of the special orb is hitting

empty musk
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Idk if I wanna push 62f torch special with Mel or Eos, it's basically just deciding between hammer rng and concentrated melee or reliance on channeling and better room clear

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Still kinda dumb imo that devs decided to just give up on balance w Hidden Helix and blacklist it from Eos, even if I get why

uneven palm
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I’m still sad about that even if Eos is stronger now than it has been

stray pivot
spiral wadi
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strength flames 62f surface

digital juniper
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how do you guys like to build charon? apollo keepsake into lucid gain, hope for giga cleaver, otherwise i have no idea what to go with

upper rapids
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how bout this

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also omega cast builds are p funny
poseidon geyser spout
ares meat grinder
apollo prom flare

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maybe local climate

digital juniper
upper rapids
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oh no i just recall the post

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not like a "pinned" comment or guide or anything

digital juniper
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yeah but should’ve still thought about it myselfbouldy

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ocast builds do sound pretty funny now that you mention it

upper rapids
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i mean if people just googled or searched on discord before any and all questions this channel would be dead 90% of the time so nothing wrong w that

uneven palm
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Yeah just get Orig online and stack up O cast goodies

upper rapids
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Dunno where else to ask but ig its combat related so

would it be a welcome addition if the victory screen featured stats like " damage blocked, dodged, or deflected " ?
Would help to gauge how well you use something like coat block or divine dash or even just get some data for daze's efficiency

spiral wadi
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could be worth feedbacking, as a stats lover i like stats

tall notch
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Oh wait it's the dodge chance dodge not iframing with dash, disregard what I just said bouldy

rotund totem
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Does blood spree work when you have white antler equipped?

median anvil
empty musk
glass shell
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happens cause its a completely new encounter phase, not just a hp gate.

sick tide
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So I just saw the 67 Heat clear, and was curious about the build used. They had the option for Zeus special on Medea but went with the cast instead. I thought Zeus special was the classic for Medea — is the cast a high fear strategy? Or better than I’d realized (I thought it choosing a single target meant it wasn’t great)?

glass bone
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Medea itself can room clear, so Zeus Cast is for bosses (to my understanding)

upper rapids
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Also maybe storm ring is faster than blitz due to the proc timer ?

glass shell
sick tide
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Ohhhhhh

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That makes sense

median anvil
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that's why

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blitz would have less value at 67 due to no origination and no furies

sick tide
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Fascinating

gritty solstice
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Hey

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what is a good build for Circe?

surreal hazel
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Casts

olive sphinx
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or do we not care about that

glass shell
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oh i don't care

gritty solstice
glass shell
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use what the game has in the game, if its not fixed thats the devs problem, not the player

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should've fixed it if you didn't want players using it

olive sphinx
surreal hazel
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Speedrunning is all about the tech, so is this

tall notch
olive sphinx
formal pulsar
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Does double strike double pros thermal d?

spiral wadi
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#h2-feedback message tbh yea that's fair i forgor to consider that i was playing at super high fear lol, but yea it is kinda unfortunate that fine line/ocean swell builds aren't as viable at high fear

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it still feels like a moros thing tho cuz that aspect gives cracked aoe to where it feels like fine line would work better since u have to build around magick anyway

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that +15 magick cost tho,,

glass bone
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That’s why I was thinking Fine Line / Ocean swell is more so Mel Flames than Moros. Moros is a giant magic sink compared to a lot of other weapons. OSpecial and OAttacks are constantly used. Adding in Fine Line / Ocean Swell when they don’t even help the main +60% boost sucks.

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I can’t believe I’m agreeing with Pronto here, but… squirtmeh /s
Having a +5% Global Crit bonus would make Mel Torches perfect for this setup with Attacks.

spiral wadi
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at the same time i hate building around attack spam LOL like, the fun i get out of mel flames is moving around and getting to use my specials, i don't like the idea of spamming attack and dashing every once in a while esp when it locks onto the enemy i specifically don't want it to lock onto

glass bone
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Then that should be included in feedback

spiral wadi
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like i was 0.5 inches in front of real hecate but oh no fake hecate spawned 3 feet away and now mel is attacking fake hecate

glass bone
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Why let unfun elements of weapons stay as is, if they are not a counterbalance?

digital juniper
glass bone
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At-least with Rival Hecate

spiral wadi
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mm yea, but i'd prefer to still at least have control over the character i am controlling

glass bone
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Actually, Hecate as a whole, because she still has the clones in the original fight

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We’re so used to Rivals, we forget it’s a problem there too (probably)

spiral wadi
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but tru i do agree that it's prob just my playstyle on flames

median anvil
spiral wadi
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boutta learn kbm for my 67f

glass bone
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For Mel Flames 67?

spiral wadi
glass bone
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Just play Surface 67 Fear and get Time removal squirtdevious

spiral wadi
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i'm convinced that mel flame 67 is impossible so if i were to do it it'd be a diff weapon, but i also don't have time to fight rng lol

glass bone
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Look, idk if we will ever see a player (outside of maybe Foolish) who’d do this, but I genuinely feel like just because of that one specific circumstance with Black Night Banishment, every weapon can be done at 67 Fear Surface.

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Not as if we haven’t seen ridiculous RNG in the Hades franchise before.

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This is the hill I’d die on. But I’m not actually going to attempt it.

spiral wadi
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if you have near perfect dodging on typhon (remember, no lovers) and can deal with everything typhon is throwing at you in 4th phase and have enough hp to not get goobed by babality chronos orbs, yea probably

glass bone
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Or… you could take Crystal Figurine in Region 1, get Judgement and like… Origination, roll Circe Black Night Banishment Timer, and then get perfect dodging on Typhon.

spiral wadi
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wait ur right hold on

median anvil
formal pulsar
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Figurine

spiral wadi
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figurine

median anvil
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you can't get judgement from figurine while there's 0 cards active

glass shell
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yes you can

median anvil
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foolish never got it once

glass shell
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i am 99% sure there is nothing restricting judgement from being picked

median anvil
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foolish did an egregious amount of pig starts and never got judgement

spiral wadi
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foolish just had bad rng smh smh

digital juniper
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Foolish just a medea 1 trick with no skill anyway smh

glass bone
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Fine. Crystal Figurine Region 1 -> Strength + Origination -> Gorgon Amulet Region 2 -> Stalwart Defense? -> Circe -> Black Night Banishment -> Time removal -> Just don’t get hit -> clear 67.

spiral wadi
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me when i stalwart and lose my strength

glass bone
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The Stalwart is there to help save you against Typhon and other enemies at-least once.

spiral wadi
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tbh id rather drop grit than time

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the longer u go the longer u have to dodge

glass bone
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Well I’m thinking about this with some really terrible weapons to deal with 67. Like Mel Axe, Charon, perhaps Shiva, things that attack really slowly and generally rely on the Arcana.

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Of course 67 Surface can be cleared with stuff like Circe, Medea, probably Mel Staff, and TK Pan. But what I’d love to see is a masochist getting a “near impossible clear”.

formal pulsar
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No time vow is amazing but like playing slower sometimes set you to get hit more. Longer encounters means more chances for you to get hit. You still have to play real fast.

spiral wadi
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tbh it's also in the context of me having varying 62f save states on typhon, sure time could help making runs taking too long not take too long, but it also has the side effect of "oh no this build isn't killing typhon quick enough so i have to dodge more for longer"

formal pulsar
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Funny fact, only 55f surface clear on Olympus update was black banishment time vow removal. Since Olympus was so long as last region you kinda needed it.

glass shell
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was that before or after olympus went -1 room

formal pulsar
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Before

glass shell
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i just know early olympic update had people praying for circe timer removal 😭

spiral wadi
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now do the same for erebus (stealing that idea)

glass bone
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I can’t believe people want this removed. Who doesn’t want to go gambling? squirtdevious

spiral wadi
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i'd literally take -1 erebus +1 oceanus

glass bone
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Or is it just the blacklist of Void that people say?

formal pulsar
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Erebus keeps the iconic 11 location from first game. No way that will changed

spiral wadi
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then make it stop giving me 3-wavers every room

glass shell
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this thought just occured to me

spiral wadi
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no one wants 3-wave spindle spam

glass bone
glass shell
glass bone
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We need to make Medea the weapon into the new Mid-dea /j

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No changes to actual Medea too to make everyone upset.

formal pulsar
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I don’t like black night banishment it is too much gambling on high fear. It is literally a Hail Mary

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Did h1 had a similar thing?

glass bone
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I mean there was Approval Process (the old Denial)

spiral wadi
glass bone
spiral wadi
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change the dd gift so "every time u lose a dd, drop a vow"

glass bone
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Ooh… that would be interesting.

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Though what would happen if I took Stalwart Stand and deliberately dropped all my vows?

formal pulsar
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Speaking of Circe, who thought that morph boon was good? That boon has got to be the worst boon in the game?

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Wait no, at least it doesn’t hurt you like reckless abandon. I take it back

spiral wadi
glass bone
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On second thought, just have it be with Death card, and Toula.

spiral wadi
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maybe "every time u dd, drop a vow (for that room)"

glass bone
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That doesn’t seem very good…

spiral wadi
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save ur 4 dds to typhon

glass bone
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I mean I guess….

spiral wadi
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u have 4 chances to drop 4 vows

formal pulsar
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Ughhh any abusable mechanic to drop vows is bad

quasi mica
# glass bone Fine. Crystal Figurine Region 1 -> Strength + Origination -> Gorgon Amulet Regio...

you could easily simulate this level of rng by just doing a run without timer and full void with strength and origination active, starting with pin and not getting origination up until after Polyphemus
If you get down to pin or go over 5 minutes before poly just reset
Then again removing timer entirely just makes everything theoretically possible if you just Don't Get Hit so this isn't an interesting question anymore

formal pulsar
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But seriously why people want a mechanic to remove difficulty that they themselves added? I don’t get it

glass bone
quasi mica
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well... go over the footage after polyphemus and manually count how much overtime damage you would have taken?

glass shell
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but then again you still need to yknow... lose a dd to activate it

spiral wadi
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stalwart stand meta

glass bone
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I can see Malice in Kind work like that for 50-62. But not 67.

glass shell
glass shell
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remove timer + pain + grit + fangs + frenzy + scars

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ez

quasi mica
glass bone
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Why not just remove Rivals in Bability and instantly kill Typhon? /j

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The words of vow removal are like Vicious Mockery. Typhon drops dead when he hears the curse be uttered.

glass bone
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So I got a 51 Fear run completely ruined by Athena not giving me the one boon I wanted with 8 rerolls starting

elfin forge
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rip

glass bone
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I basically went through Phases 1 and 2 Chronos hitless, then got decked in the face by a 70 damage laser.

elfin forge
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oh at the start of phase 3?

glass bone
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Yes

spiral wadi
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im p sure the laser thing is the most damaging move in that phase, which is like why

elfin forge
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yeah those things are deceptive, they seem easy to dodge but then they just hit you

glass bone
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The very first laser. And I instantly die.

spiral wadi
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it does 88 at max pain

glass bone
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I was at Pain 2

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Had such a good run otherwise. No death defiances lost on Hecate, Siren cheese, and a mostly clean Cerberus.

spiral wadi
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ye, brutal damage for a move that doesn't really have a "yea u should be good at dodging this"

glass bone
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I banked it all on Renewed Faith, and I lost the bet.

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I guess I’ll save the run for a fakeout (though I did just state what happened here)

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Really unfortunate. But I guess that’s how it goes sometimes…

digital juniper
past salmon
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Pot

spiral wadi
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huh

glass bone
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Total Eclipse Godsent nukes all of the Charbydis Tentacles, and mostly kills Scylla and the sirens.

spiral wadi
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OH yea that

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just hitch smh

glass bone
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I did have hitch also

spiral wadi
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damn

past salmon
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Hestia godsent my beloved

glass bone
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But really though. If it weren’t for Renewed Faith not showing up, that would have perhaps been the cleanest 50+ run I had ever done.

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Not going to do a seeded run though. Just will have to wait for another luckier run than that

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Also, @past salmon What are you doing next now that 67 is done?

elfin forge
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pls do 67 all aspects tyvm

past salmon
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Well you see
Skong is in like a week

elfin forge
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plenty of time

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10 days until Skong
23 aspects left
2-3 aspects a day 🙂

past salmon
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nah if I do anything it will involve surface somehow

glass bone
elfin forge
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oh true!

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24 SF, 23 UW runs

glass shell
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ez

elfin forge
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if your runs are taking about 30 minutes irl time, that's just 23.5 hours of time

glass bone
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Imagine if 67 Surface is done today. Max Fear cleared twice first in the same day

elfin forge
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so if you try really, really, really hard you could get them all done in a day

empty musk
# glass shell happens cause its a completely new encounter phase, not just a hp gate.

I mean if that was the case it would increase encounter # and decrease encounter-based items like those from Charon Well. Pretty sure it works like this bc Chronos' hitbox ceases to exist and the Pin detects no valid enemies alive, hence why it can heal mid encounter if you clear the wave. But I'll get a vid of that too once I finish grinding 62F UW

glass shell
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your mistaking new encounter vs new encounter phase. Different code

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distinction is in the fact it wouldn't work vs hecate invuln phase for example

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but it works here because he was reduced to zero, gains an entirely new hp bar and is a new fight.

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but its not a new encounter

empty musk
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Yeah I realize that, it doesn't work whenever an enemy is invulnerable on screen but that's bc the enemy still has hp and is technically a valid target. If it still works based on the phase change like you said then that means Pin has 3 modes of detection: detecting if the encounter is over, detecting an encounter phase change, or detecting a wave clear mid-encounter (which would mean this isn't a bug and is intentional)

glass shell
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it would be a bug since thats not how the game handles enemy counts

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game handles room generation with weight or something i forget the terminology

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it would know there are enemies remaining, yet not spawned and thus not stop the countdown or at least should

empty musk
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But then pin heal would be attached solely to the encounter/encounter phase ending ==> the wave clear "bug" wouldn't exist bc the encounter hasn't ended

glass shell
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im still not convinced thats actually a thing

empty musk
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Ugh I'll get your your vid later once I stop dying to r4 Chronos

glass shell
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real

glass bone
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51 with Eos complete. Now I have 3/4 50+ for staves and torches.

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Currently I have 50+ runs with…

  • 62: Circe
  • 51: Eos, Nyx, Mel Staff
  • 50: Anubis, Supay, Mel Flames
    (Difference between the 51s and 50s is Scars 3 vs Grit 1)
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Not certain what to do next though, since I haven’t played a lot of the other aspects and idk if it’ll click instantly for me like aspect of Nyx did.

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**or I just don’t know if I have the skills to complete 50 fear with it

tall notch
glass bone
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Should I trade out Wards for Pain 3?

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**if the goal is 50+

tall notch
glass bone
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Hmmm… maybe I’ll push some weapons to 53 then.

median anvil
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pain3 scars3 is definitely one of the gaming experiences I've ever had

tall notch
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Pain 3 suffering 2 was a vibe

glass bone
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My current setup is;
2 for Pain, then max Wards, Frenzy, Menace, Return, Fangs, Scars, Debt, Shadow, Timer, Hubris, Denial, and Rivals.

past salmon
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Just max void next I think
That seems correct

glass bone
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Yeah, sure. I’ll get right to that.

tall notch
glass bone
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0 for both.

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This and not including Onion is to reduce Erebus RNG for weapons I’m not confident in

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To be clear, my main goal is pushing all weapons as high as I can atm, rather than pushing another weapon to 62.

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E.g. 32+ Fear for all weapons, then 40+, then as close as I can to 50+ for everything (With a mix of 50+ runs as I’m pushing the lowest upward)

tall notch
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I feel like if you want to get used to weapons in a high fear setting, lose timer 3 (down to 2 or maybe even 1) and turn on things like pain 3, hordes, grit

glass bone
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Am thinking now I need to put Pain 3 on to get better. Hordes and Grit though I feel I’ll save for the weapons I want to push far beyond 50 (I.e. all the ones minus Circe I already have at 50+)

tall notch
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Hordes is being treated like just a thing that slows people down but the higher enemy density does make things actually more challenging. Higher odds of a room becoming an utter mess, especially with fangs also on

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I like Hordes, I'd click it from 40f onwards

empty musk
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Bc maxing out Scars and Pain together the next step if you're struggling to go mostly hitless

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But otherwise doing hordes + grit is better to put on early since learning room clear is more complicated

glass bone
empty musk
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Are the dd losses due to mostly guardians/wardens or encounters

glass bone
empty musk
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Then def go pain/scars first, it'll be easier to get to the fights consistently and practice them without having to worry ab encounter time getting in the way

glass bone
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That’s what I was thinking, since hordes / grit will add more RNG.

upper rapids
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Does concave stone trigger hubris

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Followup question
If it does, should it ( not based on code logic but balancing )

empty musk
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I mean concave stone does a lot of things that can be detrimental to your run so hubris wouldn't be the first

upper rapids
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Hence why i wonder if it does trigger since id feedback to change that, concave needs some love

upper rapids
empty musk
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I did it at as my last thing (never doing void) = huge mistake bc it trained me to damage boost thru encounters and guardians

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If you struggle with guardians I would make Pain the last thing going from 58F to 62F, max out Scars way earlier so you can get used to what healing works and what doesn't

#

But preferably learn to do guardian/wardens mostly hitless before doing grit/hordes

upper rapids
#

On one hand i wanna learn to dodge better so i can see the logic behind it
On the other hand, i dont know if dodging perfectly and giving up healing is something i can do

Like, physically
I lose focus of whats going on in the run and all the colors and effects make it hard to follow
So i facetank as a crutch since i dont have reaction speed that good

But then again idk what can happen without trying

#

I can almost manage poly and eris hitless but will lose some lovers armor to either poison or the boulder, respectively fire hazards or an attack when shes hidden in smoke

After that, its mostly mental. If i go into doomer mode i will get hit by everything. If im locked in then its easy

Prom and typhon tho..

empty musk
#

I thought Scars + Pain would be a lot harder than it actually is and avoided them for the longest time bc I thought I could never do it, only place where I'd say it's a threat is Erebus (the hardest region to do hitless bc of enemy design) and Olympus enemies + Prom/Spawn/Typhon bc of their overtuned base damage

upper rapids
#

I thought tail would be harder to do hitless given the dracons

#

Then again spawn can have some annoying patterns w the shadow

empty musk
#

Eh they don't do enough damage normally to be a threat

#

Spawn will delete DDs with Frenzy + Shadow

upper rapids
#

Does supay trigger poly boulder because youre technically attacking ?

spiral wadi
#

poly boulder gets triggered from any damage source lmao

#

so if supay pokes him yea prob

#

like raki randomly attacking can trigger poly

upper rapids
#

No i didnt damage him i dont think

#

But i did strike the spawns

#

Or maybe toula decided to Betray me

cerulean panther
#

You don't need to directly attack Poly to trigger the boulder. He's listening for you, just about any action besides Dashing or Sprinting (and I think it might include those) will cause him to throw a rock in your general direction.

upper rapids
#

Hence why i think its a bit iffy for supay to trigger that but gotta do more runs to see

empty musk
#

Poly boulder is almost never worth trying to avoid triggering, just run away from wherever spotted pops up and dash back thru

#

Cerb counter is different though, pretty sure not all damage sources trigger it

upper rapids
#

Not saying its worth avoiding but having soup trigger it because it forces you to attack doesnt seem right

empty musk
#

Like if they want to fix the Supay interaction you have to fix how Poly listen works as a whole

upper rapids
#

Fair fair

spiral wadi
#

at least my intuition tells me that after playing him repeatedly

empty musk
#

Huh didn't know it kept track of that besides Back Burner and Mel daggers + the dagger hammer

uneven palm
#

I know I’ve just let Storm Ring pound on him while paws are up and it’s been fine. It seems like any attack/special triggers the fireballs? I’m not sure tho

spiral wadi
#

i remember not attacking and he still spits, maybe it's any damage source like scorch?

#

actually i feel like it's just rng lmao

#

what happens if u just stand still

odd atlas
#

Question: does anyone know if it's still possible to get a third hammer from Echo

uneven palm
#

It is, if you take a hammer just before her

odd atlas
#

Thanks! Haven't had it happen in a while, wasn't sure

upper rapids
#

Or use the gift gift gift one which gives you a copy of your keepsake for the next biome and double up your experimental hammer

uneven palm
#

It requires doing like a hammer in the second fields chamber or having Forfeit on and getting an onion from midboss (onion doesn’t count as a reward) after a hammer in c1

#

Also echo has more stuff these days so it’s a gamble Reward Reward Reward even shows up

past salmon
#

Just take some ash before leaving the room it makes reward guaranteed to show up

spiral wadi
#

strength meta, narrow down the options shadesmile

#

not like narc gave me life savings for 100 runs straight during dd

#

dio should take all my dds then give them back and more

upper rapids
uneven palm
#

RRR smol magick pot is a mood

upper rapids
#

Path of stars 1 node tho

surreal hazel
olive sphinx
civic ocean
#

You can also artificer a minor find into a 2nd hammer before taking the 2nd hammer shown totalling 3 hammers

upper rapids
#

i was thinking something like that was possible, similar to buying a 4th god before getting ur 5th on a door
just didnt know how since hammers dont show up in shops and on doors like that p sure

odd atlas
#

Thanks all!

surreal hazel
#

Thankfully h2 hasn't got any mutually exclusive hammers to my knowledge

willow phoenix
surreal hazel
#

Ah, maybe

#

But maybe not. It only pulses once when it lands so it might actually be a positive synergy

#

Lenme check

surreal hazel
#

but that's literally the only one

willow phoenix
#

Volatile's pretty annoying that you have to wait out your skull to land for it to work

surreal hazel
#

Volatile is just kinda... not good

digital juniper
#

if it was immediate after firing it would be decent, but you have to wait what it feels like a whole second for it to drop on the ground to do damage

surreal hazel
#

Somehow he will therefore counter Solar, Tidal, Blade, Storm, Rapture and Engagement Ring? Odd

surreal hazel
#

Polyphemus doesn't seem to have any such blacklist, but he won't counter anything for the first 1.55 seconds of doing the "listen" stance

upper rapids
#

Did notice that u can get away with bs for a while before he triggers the boulder

surreal hazel
#

Yeah, gives you a fair chance to react to the stance

#

Unless you're on frenzy 2 but that's the bed you made for yourself

maiden hound
#

I'm sorry, cerb can counterattack? I beat him a few times already, how do I not know this

surreal hazel
maiden hound
#

with or without the vow?

surreal hazel
#

without, he won't use that move at all

maiden hound
#

ok, yeah I jist never knew that after all

#

is it when he has his forelegs raised up

surreal hazel
#

yeah, he blocks attacks from the front, and spits a salvo of fireballs when he does

#

but there's a list of moves he won't respond to, probably because it would be unfair

upper rapids
uneven palm
# surreal hazel Here we go. Cerberus will not counter: Posideon splashes, Anvil ring Arctic Ring...

Weird he’s not countering Storm Ring in this run https://youtu.be/ME2D6Lk9kIo?si=gt90bz6m7w8e9I1k (around 18:55 he paws up with Storm Ring on him, no retaliation). Maybe it has to start after he combobreaks?

YouTube
Lee Reamsnyder
Hades 2 EA Patch 11 50 Fear Medea Skull Underworld

It's Medea week on the speedrun discord! So here's my mediocre contribution. Mutual Destruction carry tbh.

0:00 Arcana and such
0:22 Erebus
5:01 Unrivaled Hecate
7:19 Oceanus
11:50 Unrivaled Sirens
14:24 Fields
18:38 Unrivaled Bad dog
20:56 Tartarus
25:36 Unrivaled Chronos
30:35 Victory!

▶ Play video
surreal hazel
#

I dunno if Storm Ring bolts are just unblockable because it's never a directional attack

#

can Hoplites/Goldpikes ever block a lightning bolt?

past salmon
surreal hazel
#

Like I say, that might just be implied by storm ring just being an unblockable

#

what I was quoting there was an actual blacklist in the code

formal pulsar
#

So how does bugged Medea interact with bugged hestia cast? Do you get triple the amount of scorch?

glass bone
#

Hmmm… well normal Scorch cast global boost is 2x the effect due to the Scorch cast bug. If Medea bug is a global bug, then it could either apply once (+90%), or twice (+180%).

surreal hazel
#

+90% because Smolder Ring has a unique step that looks at all additive multipliers when it works out how much scorch to add. For some reason Medea's bonus is also applying to non-omega cast damage, which uhhh... oops

#

but it shouldn't be adding to scorch damage itself

#

But you know, almost doubling the amount of applied scorch is nothing to sneeze at

glass shell
#

well not really, but its just smolder has extra code to that lets it add in the global modifers for scorch

#

storm ring and smolder just call for the weaponset which most casts don't, but smolder ring and storm do.

#

or something like that. So its not double dipping

surreal hazel
#

I think it's two entirely different bugs for medea causing more scorch and storm ring bolt damage

#

or rather, would require two fixes for the same underlying issue

#

unless you look at Medea and Martial Art's actual code and realise their descriptions are lies but eh

glass shell
#

yes, but the point i was trying to make is that its not two stacking bugs.

its just the fact that smolder ring has code that makes it apply damage % to the scorch applied, then the regular normal scorch consumed damage %

#

for some reason

surreal hazel
#

yeye, same as I was saying

#

Basically medea and Martial art (and gigaros dash?) all benefit their damage to non-omega damage, so non omega cast damage is included and ooops

#

even though their descriptions say "Attack and Special"

#

either that or somehow storm ring bolts are being erronously labelled as weapon damage

#

Depends really. I need to test a few other boons, like Anvil Ring

glass shell
#

still is just the base versions but i thing one of the warsong hotfixes made it say specials lmao

surreal hazel
#

well okay, so it's double wrong

glass shell
#

lmao

surreal hazel
#

Sorcery and Witchcraft, fitting for the aspect

gritty solstice
#

need some heph builds, reccomendations?

supple lintel
#

heph legendary with nergal nets you basically constant berserk

median anvil
glass bone
#

Hang on… Hephaestus special on Circe?

glass bone
median anvil
stable herald
#

idk if it's the strongest but Heph attack on Supay is basically zero work for maximum clang uptime with Chain Reaction (which you should always be getting for Hephy)

glass bone
# median anvil why not

I’ve used Special + Dash Attack far more than the cooldown. Like I’d rather have Hephaestus Special on non-Charon axes than Circe.

#

It wasn’t as important as Scorch Cast or the Arctic Gale, but getting something like Blitz, Hitch, or Freeze on Special I feel would be better than Blast / Glow.

gritty solstice
glass bone
#

**though at the same time, if it’s like… 32 fear and lower, anything can work.

gritty solstice
#

i NEVER used aspect of Circe.

#

momus my beloved

glass bone
#

First boon imo should be a Cast boon. You get double the value of a cast boon

#

That includes stuff like Prominance Flare, and Arctic Gale, but I don’t remember how the second cast works with Hestia’s fireball cast boon.

#

If you are using OCast more, take Tidal / Solar Ring and use Winner’s Circle + Lucid Gain + Geyser Spout (Geyser Spout for damage is crucial)
If you are using Cast more, take Storm / Smolder Ring, grab Arctic Gale if you can, then take any support boons you want.

gritty solstice
#

So, what about an Zeus + Apollo on Circe? Their Duo is hard to get but very powerful.

glass bone
#

I believe the effect is doubled. But it takes a lot more magic and time to build up. Never tried it personally on Circe.

gritty solstice
#

i'll try it here.

#

But, Apollo on cast and zeus on special, or the opposite?

uneven palm
#

Either is good. Blitz good, two Storm Rings also good

glass bone
#

Glorious Disaster requires Prominance Flare from Apollo, and that’s the only option. If I had to say which one is better……. Storm Ring + Prominance Flare is better, because it takes one less boon.

gritty solstice
#

Also, different beast familiars optimize the Circe Staff, Right?

glass bone
#

Yes.

#

The two best are probably Toula and Raki, because they both follow enemies, but the others can work.

#

Toula is better for Smolder Ring and Death Defiance players, because you get 4/5 death defiances (with/without the familiar enhancement on Surface), and Raki I believe is not part of the global boost bug with Smolder Ring
Raki is better with Storm Ring and Strength players, because the Crit bonus applies to every single Lightning hit, and the psychic leash, and Toula doesn’t work with Strength unless you deliberately take damage at the start

#

**to be clear, I prefer Smolder and Storm Ring as cast boons, but everything outside of probably Rapture Ring can be very strong.

gritty solstice
#

i'm a Strength player, LOL

glass bone
#

Then Raki is probably best (unless you wanted to be safer with Frinos / Gale, but I don’t think they are as good for the cast damage). If you want, you can also optimize that Psychic Leash damage, since again, it can be crit boosted iirc.

gritty solstice
#

Ok, ok, thanks bro.

#

So, the path is:

Storm Ring + Prominence Flare.
Glorious Disaster
Support Boons for couverage.

glass shell
#

i personally still think hecuba is good

#

but i value stacking the casts not distance

glass bone
#

I’m not saying that any of the familiar options are bad. But I do think that there are better familiars.

#

I prefer the regular Casts more, so the max magic isn’t that helpful to me.
I don’t care for the added HP / blockage of projectiles from Frinos (even though it is a help against Hecate)
I’d rather not waste blocks on encounters with Gale
And Raki with my choice of cast nowadays doesn’t work as well (and also isn’t as safe).

tall notch
#

I wouldn't click Hecuba on Circe unless i was doing some ocast meme build

glass bone
#

At 60 Fear (excluding Void and Wards), I think OCasts Circe can clear it. But regular cast still would be better as to not rely on Lucid Gain & probably Winner’s Circle

#

It’s 1-2 less boons you have to take with regular casts, and with onion, that’s pretty important.

sage flame
#

who needs strength when u have cat

civic ocean
#

Just have to pick up a ward killer earlish

glass bone
#

But 60 is far easier for room clearing in time-crunch regions.

#

Maybe Shimmering Moonshot would be the ward killer?

#

Because Static Shock cuts your magic way down, and idk if Flash Fry is good enough.

uneven palm
#

There’s scorch, hitch

glass bone
#

**also, by “OCast Circe”, I mean Tidal/Solar Ring builds. Not just Smolder / Storm Ring OCasted.

glass bone
uneven palm
#

Why not? You can O cast on those and add all the O cast goodies

glass bone
#

I don’t mean that “OCast Smolder Ring / Storm Ring” is bad.

#

What I mean, is it feels like a bit of a cheat to say “I cleared OCast mainly Circe”, but used the regular cast types.

#

That’s why I said “Solar / Tidal Ring”. The casts that use OCasts more. That at Circe 62

#

How easy/hard could it be?

uneven palm
#

I just feel like it’s a sorta meaningless distinction? O cast is Mel’s base kit. I use it on like every aspect at least a little but I’m weird

#

Except like Charon I guess

#

Where the aspect does it for you

spiral wadi
#

i just don't use circe ocasts at 62 lol, the only time i ocast on any aspect is for master slicer

tall notch
sage flame
#

im a big ocast fan tbh i use it most of the time on most runs esp early on in the run, even with hubris and such I find it's pretty easy to spam

civic ocean
#

Gale is your ward killer in that case

#

I would imagine that that build can 62 clear without much help, perhaps with Grievous Blow or Blitz on attack/special

tall notch
uneven palm
#

I mean I guess your leash is ward killer regardless?

#

To some extent

glass bone
#

I feel like Arctic Gale would have to be the ward killer besides the leash.

#

It deals damage every 0.25 seconds, so it takes 0.5 seconds to clear wards per enemy in the cast.

shell bough
#

Whats the best attack boon to get for anubis? hestia? poseidon? sth else?

median anvil
shell bough
# median anvil hestia

okay thats what i have been using. anything particularly useful for the special? feels like it doesnt really matter

glass bone
#

I feel like Hitch is best for Special if you aren’t focusing on the Special

#

Otherwise, go Apollo / Aphrodite for raw damage.

#

Also, if you are focusing on Attack, Cardio Gain is the best gain imo.

#

Anubis’s attack constantly deals damage ticks, so you can really farm magic up fast.

shell bough
#

yeah mana isnt really an issue on anubis

#

i tried special blitz since itll just activate from the attack damage immediately but even that didnt seem ot really do a lot on the stats page so maybe ill try hitch

#

getting static shock and stuff is nice tho

median anvil
civic ocean
glass bone
#

What about its counterpart? (The sprint gale boon)

civic ocean
#

You can do better than Frigid Rush but its fine

digital juniper
#

the dem apollo duo is pretty funny with frigid rush though

glass bone
#

What I was mainly thinking is “Are there any weapons where a Cast boon isn’t taken at crucial moments for Arctic Gale?”

#

But at the same time, you are also trading Frigid Rush for Apollo’s Sprint, which is also reaaaally strong.

gritty solstice
#

Bro

civic ocean
#

Arctic Gale isnt a cast boon which is huge

gritty solstice
#

i got so UNLUCKY on the start of the run

glass bone
#

Oh wait. Right.

gritty solstice
#

First, the Zeus cast boon cost me 6 Rerolls in the first AREA.

#

Second, I got Prominence Flare BEFORE the Prometheus Fight

civic ocean
#

Why is that second one bad

glass bone
#

I’m guessing because the Prominence Flare could have been useful for Poly / Eris?

gritty solstice
#

i was planning to got the Apollo and Zeus boon early as possible

#

i got 4 apollo boons

#

none of then was prominence flare. The 5th gave me

glass bone
#

Oof… Well there is always next run.

gritty solstice
#

BUUUT

#

Selene stars were align and i got the boon and Duo

#

JUST BEFORE TYPHOON

#

And i Destroyed him with the rays and lightning of my bros

glass bone
#

Nice!

gritty solstice
#

I'm thinking of use the Circe staff more often

#

i totally forgot that the cast boon is applied twice on my familiar

glass bone
#

If it wasn’t clear, I am a bit biased, but tbh, I feel like Circe is conditionally the 3rd strongest aspect in the game (behind Medea at its highest peaks, and Pan with Trick Knives). It’s flexible (every single cast save for possibly Rapture Ring can have a build with it, and all familiars can work in the right conditions), and functions in a way that completely destroys certain vows (e.g. Onion since there’s low boon reliance with the right build, and Wards because Arctic Gale, Psychic Leash, and Smolder Ring nuke the protection)

gritty solstice
#

i'm not so on the smolder ring, and hestia boons. Why the hestia cast is so op?

glass bone
#

First of all, let me say that this is speaking about the near-highest of fears (50-62). Any weapon can work with probably any build, so long as you can pilot it well. People say Mel Axe sucks, but it can and has been brought to 32 and 50 before.

gritty solstice
#

Mel Axe has almost no build variety, relying on this basic attacks and health boost

glass bone
#

To the reasoning for Circe specifically….

  1. Smolder Ring is a duration cast, meaning it does not need Winner’s Circle to do its top damage (less boon reliance vs Debt, Denial, and Forfeit)
  2. Smolder Ring benefits immensely from the strong boon of Pyro Technique. If I remember the damage calculations correctly, a Pom with it being at common boosts it by 50%. If you can keep the scorch damage up, Pyro Technique + Smolder Ring (and also Burning Desire if you can grab it) is huge.
  3. Smolder Ring is currently bugged. For the purposes of Circe cast, Global Boosts apply twice, when all other scorch boons apply once. The global boost applies to the damage done to apply scorch (the bug), and the scorch damage itself that hurts a target (intended).
  4. Smolder Ring as mentioned nukes vow of Wards, which can be a pain point for slower attacks (e.g. Tidal Ring)
#

There is a second bug with Smolder Ring, but that’s aspect of Medea (the 90% bonus also applies to Smolder Ring).

#

So for Circe, only the global boosts matter. But I believe the global boosts affect both the player AND the familiar Smolder casts.

#

Oh, and one more thing. Compared to Storm Ring (the other strong and fast damage duration cast), Smolder Ring applies a Curse. That means that any other curse (e.g. Freeze, Hitch, Blitz, Weak, etc.) immediately gives you Origination.

gritty solstice
#

mind blowing technique

spiral wadi
#

smolder winner's is a play for insta-reposition cast on like rchronos 3rd phase

glass bone
#

True, but Winner’s isn’t needed like some other casts.

spiral wadi
#

tru, it's still a cool option to consider

cerulean panther
#

I think Winner's Circle has outright anti-synergy between the DoT-type Casts.

#

Barring Anvil Ring which remains sick.

stable herald
#

I don't mind Winner's Circle on Arctic Ring but that's if I'm using it for the freeze application

surreal hazel
#

since casting is also sped up, there's a lot of value in being able to quickly move it around

glass bone
#

Just got done a 44 Fear run on Surface (Mel Staff). Remembered why I don’t like Surface.

#

Prom, Spawn, and Typhon himself were real pain points there. Gotta get better ig…

#

**this is without Rivals 3/4 btw

tall notch
glass bone
#

Hmmm… I got an interesting question. What’s the best boon in the game?

tall notch
glass bone
#

Is there a difference between Sworn Strike / Flourish?

civic ocean
#

What is your criteria

spiral wadi
#

flourish for torch, strike for axe

glass bone
#

I am thinking “How often am I to use this boon in a high fear setting?” (Or speedrunning if we wish to discuss that instead)

spiral wadi
#

east u should do special only nergal

civic ocean
glass bone
#

I’m thinking of Weapon-agnostic though. So no “Scorch Cast because of Medea / Circe”

spiral wadi
#

i was on and off during the stream lol

#

i still get scorch cast cuz it gets solid room clears

civic ocean
spiral wadi
#

i think in the context of rivals and frenzy, yea def blinding rush

#

or at least a couple celerity (speed up) chaos gifts

glass bone
#

Blinding Rush > Nitro Boost I presume?

civic ocean
#

Every other strong boon has specific conditions under which they are made undesirable but Blinding Rush has like only maybe one and even then its not clear its bad in those circumstances (supay)

spiral wadi
#

get both, blinding rush can get pommed but nitro boost u take what u can get lol

#

so yea blinding prob better overall

#

but i still don't mind nitro cuz +15% speed is still speed

civic ocean
#

Nitro is also good but less availability

#

And Daze is a great status

glass bone
#

Ah yes, that’s true. Nitro Boost can’t proc Origination.

civic ocean
#

Iirc Blinding Rush is the most taken boon over 50f or smth

glass bone
#

Also I could see a world where you take Hard Target or some other boon over Nitro Boost depending on the circumstances

spiral wadi
civic ocean
#

But the greater point is that “what is the best boon in the game” is more of a trivia question and less of an instructive way to play the game

#

No high level player would seriously recommend starting Apollo and first picking blinding rush

spiral wadi
#

haha yea i would never do that

#

i only do that in fields

glass bone
#

Actually, there is maybe one other circumstance where you don’t take Blinding Rush.

spiral wadi
#

cuz movement speed is mega important on cerb and chronos

glass bone
#

And that’s Bad RNG with Apollo Keepsake starting weapons.

#

I know it’s technically not a proper circumstance, but it can happen.

civic ocean
#

That’s not a knock against blinding rush though

spiral wadi
#

and by the time ur in fields ur cores should be narrowed down enough to where blinding rush is relatively consistent to get

#

and it also procs beach ball if u happen to have sidon core

glass bone
#

This does give me a really silly idea though for my next run; 50 Fear Supay Blinding Rush. squirtdevious

spiral wadi
#

lol does supay buff sprint speed

glass bone
#

I did get a Supay 50 fear clear, but I wasn’t able to fix the recording of it.

#

So such a meme run could be done A. If it wasn’t done already, and B. If I’m good enough / lucky enough to get it done.

#

Also I feel like Beach Ball in this run would be cheating, so if I do try it, I’ll try to remember not to take it.

#

0 Rush Damage Supay totally gonna happen (if I wish)

civic ocean
#

Blinding Rush is probably fine on supay idk

spiral wadi
#

i mean they fixed beach ball interacting w supay aspect so

civic ocean
#

People read the text “rush damage 30%” and miss the point of the aspect I think

glass bone
#

I guess. I just thought of the idea A. because it’s funny, and B. because we need to show that the Rush weapon can be not a Rush weapon, and maybe should be adjusted?

#

Supay’s actual purpose is to play Vampire Survivors in Hades 2 squirtdevious

spiral wadi
#

watch them nerf blinding rush to scale smth crazy like "each time a foe misses they take damage" instead of scaling sprint speed

tall notch
#

chat should i do one (1) try of Supay 62f and see if I lose my mind by chamber 3?

civic ocean
glass bone
tall notch
civic ocean
spiral wadi
civic ocean
#

Cat hitstuns too

tall notch
glass bone
#

Supay lost its stagger on regular attack and special

surreal hazel
civic ocean
#

Not anymore

glass bone
#

That was in the patch that brought back the 2nd ball I think

surreal hazel
#

Lightning Lance in particular

solemn loom
spiral wadi
#

o i didn't know it auto filtered

glass bone
#

Then what is the overall most chosen boon at 50+ fear? And does it change at 62+?

solemn loom
spiral wadi
#

on the topic of stagger, the stagger on normal mel flames is abysmally short, like it feels incredibly short like i'll be spamming special or attack and the fish tridents will still stomp and hippos will still run away like god damn just stand still

spiral wadi
solemn loom
glass bone
#

All aspects.

#

Or is there automatic filtering for weapons on crossroads?

tall notch
#

your fault East, I totally could have first tried 62f

glass bone
#

Was it a lucky run?

#

Actually, wait. I got a solution for you Coldshade. Poseidon Start, aim for Breaker Rush + Sea Star, and have it proc on a magic up. Then you can bring in Kitty for Supay 62.

solemn loom
# glass bone All aspects.

The site filter by aspects, if you account them together then the most played aspects will overshadow the others.

glass bone
#

Ah… got it.

solemn loom
glass bone
#

So the most common “boon” is No Rush, followed by Apollo Rush.

median anvil
#

hope supay gets a smol buff in 1.0

glass bone
#

Maybe +40% Rush for Rank 5?

median anvil
#

and stagger on normal attack

glass bone
#

That feels like a much larger buff than tweaking the Rush bonus numbers.

#

Still torn as to if it should be readded or not.

uneven palm
tall notch
#

Chat i got past Hecate and didn't time out, supay is fire

tall notch
#

(Athena did not save me.)

glass shell
#

😔

glass bone
tall notch
#

unless that was just rng not being favourable

glass bone
#

What was the build?

#

**and also start

#

Because at 62, I feel like the right keepsake isn’t the dash keepsake if it’s Poseidon, but rather Zeus / Hera for Special.

#

Though to be fair I did run Poseidon at 50 with wards 2.

tall notch
# glass bone What was the build?

started poseidon, build was ares atk zeus special dem cast with poseidon giving the +power thing to cast, i wanted to alternate omegas for insane ocast bonks but it kind of just fell flat lmao

glass bone
#

Maybe it’s just the Siren cheese is needed for Supay?

#

How much weaker is Heat Rush compared to Breaker?

#

Actually, I think I know what it could be for a solution. Hitch for the tentacles.

#

Like… Hera Attack + Zeus Special, Demeter Cast, Breaker Rush, and Ocean Swell

tall notch
#

sure I'll click hera

glass bone
#

Alternatively, there’s just roll for the Heroic Rush damage, get something like Static Shock, Hitch / Godsent Total Eclipse, and then kill everything.

#

**instead of Omega alternating with Night

#

If you got Ares after Hecate, I feel like that could work. But if it was required to beat her… Hitch over Wounds could be a timeout.

#

Also to be fair, your original build worked. It’s just Athena didn’t give you the right boon.

civic ocean
#

Did you get blitz thats where the money is on supay

tall notch
formal pulsar
#

Honestly I never played supay to the rush boon angle. The aspect screams romantic spark. And nexus sprint is super underrated with it and it opens up ransom, what’s not to like?

digital juniper
#

what’s an aspect that could run a funny blast build?

spiral wadi
#

i believe the current funny blast build rn is persephone aspect and roll for blast room 1

tall notch
#

If not all

formal pulsar
#

Favorite weapon for blasts outside Persephone is any non morrigan blades. I really its long ranged quick special . Perfect for blasts imo

digital juniper
#

get high rarity atk and special, try to go for as many poms, maybe heph pos duo too i assume?

formal pulsar
#

Both attack and special might be too much since you also want to Pom and you might be spreading yourself too thin

#

Best duo are with Apollo and hestia. You really really want their duos. 4th god is whatever you like most. But I like Hera 4th god

civic ocean
#

Any aspect would love to deal like 1000

#

Dps

digital juniper
#

i really was overlooking blasts tbh

had a than run and got blast special, having a 1k damage button was extremely fun

frosty grove
#

Question: how are we actually meant to get hermes' legendary? It's a 1% chance and I'm lucky if I find him twice per run. In fact since the latest update I get way more minor finds than I used to, almost crowding out "medium" (non-boon) finds all-together. I had one run where I made it to Hecate with only two boons to my name, and one of them was bought from the shop right before

past salmon
#

Simply hit
Yeh idk why his odds are so low

spiral wadi
#

just roll excellence for 1.5% chance

civic ocean
#

You want yarn right its flat no?

uneven palm
#

Yeah, yarn helps a lot

frosty grove
#

but only if you're lucky enough to get hermes as your next boon giver, no?

#

I rarely take whell of charon items so i dont remember exactly how yarn works

cerulean panther
#

Yarn only affects the very next boon you pick up, yes.

empty musk
#

I consider it a blessing in disguise

#

That thing is ass and I become actively annoyed when it gets offered

#

But sucks for prophecy purposes

distant creek
#

How can I make the ||Cloak|| a more fun weapon for me. I've unlocked all aspects and they've all felt really bad besides ||Nyx ||and clunky even with a few gods. thoughts, builds and ideas?

distant creek
empty musk
# distant creek How can I make the ||Cloak|| a more fun weapon for me. I've unlocked all aspects...
  1. My first recommendation is kbm but if you can't do that I get it bc I gave up too bouldy At the very least I'd turn of auto aim since it interacts really badly w controller on omega attack block
  2. Mel aspect can be kinda fun with either Exhaust Riser + Hestia/Chain Lightning or any % based god besides Demeter on the attack w/ a attack-based hammer (reaper, rapid or siege frame) --> just keep in mind you need to intersperse specials into attack combo to meet damage
  3. Selene is basically all ab the Hex and Night cycling between the 3 omegas, don't bother with anything else
  4. Shiva relies mostly on the attack combo or single special for wave clearing and getting rid of wards. The night Destructive combo should really only be used once or twice per encounter and to do chunk damage to tanky foes like Guardians, Wardens or certain fang foes
#

Also get shimmering rockets and your QoL gets a million times better, it's easily the best hammer on all non-hidden aspects

civic ocean
#

I don’t click special on mel coat just dash attack go zoooooom take some on hit effects and go nuts

spiral wadi
#

on the topic of specials i find blitz atk to be better on mel torch for surface

#

room clears aren't too bad since ephyra isn't erebus

night lotus
maiden hound
#

I remember seeing youtube vids of runs where you can see "Fate Altered" as they dash away from the vow. how does one do that? does it reset the seed of the run?

lunar kiln
#

whats good on pan these days? is it just big slow cooker

jade raptor
#

Who has the best Magick recharge spells? I want to go for a high Magick run for rival prometheus, going with either skulls (preferably persephone) or twin flames (supay probably)

#

I looked up the fight and spoiled myself so I could know what im getting into, and I need more practice on the twin blades (I have the secret aspect)

#

Any reccomendations on what build I should have?

willow phoenix
spiral wadi
#

it's at least 7 clears each on uw and surface

maiden hound
#

that would explain why I don't got it yet... guess I'll do just that

median anvil
#

though demeter's is consistently infinite

jade raptor
#

Demeter works like the tarot, doesnt it?

#

The arcana

median anvil
#

yeah but percentage based and much faster

#

works best when you you have a big magick bar

junior trail
#

is it true that flat damage source is better than percentage in high fear?

jade raptor
surreal hazel
uneven palm
#

With all the global damage boosts on offer from Arcana flat damage scales harder, probably, but it depends. Also kinda depends on what you mean by “high” fear. Like when Hordes and Wards are in play Hitch kinda dominates

hollow tartan
uneven palm
#

Hestia bestia

hollow tartan
civic ocean
hollow tartan
sand salmon
#

anyone has fun build recomendation ?

digital juniper
sand salmon
glass bone
sand salmon
hollow tartan
sand salmon
glass bone
#

The alternative build is the Skyfall Godsent.

tall notch
gray peak
#

Does anyone have the link to the speedrunning website?

tall notch
gray peak
#

Wait sorry, it was the website that detailed high fear attempts

tall notch
gray peak
#

Ty!!

spiral granite
#

Hey people, how does Black Fleece interacts with Charon?
Does it boosts the Cast and the special damage both?

glass shell
#

unsure specifically, but it should unless theres some weird code logic

#

it turns the cast into an omega cast upon hit which should get the damage bonus

uneven palm
daring quartz
#

Been playing on and off
Just unga bunga'd the way through 24 fear on the surface without any difficulty (it was a high rolling the entire run)
Does that strat still work at 32 heat

tall notch
daring quartz
#

Nice, off to bunga I go

civic ocean
#

The only exception is Glorious Disaster because it’s an additional charge that must be “put into” an omega casts

shell bough
#

Supay better or worse now than before patch? And how good is it in general compared to other stuff for high fear?

empty musk
#

Or 11

shell bough
#

The one that gave it 2 balls back but made it not stun

glass bone
# shell bough Supay better or worse now than before patch? And how good is it in general compa...

Objectively it became worse since Patch 9. It lost its stagger, and it lost quite a bit of the rush bonus.
There is an argument it got “better”, because enemies became easier to defeat, but compared to all weapons Supay got nerfed.
Regardless, Supay still works better than some weapons up to at-least 50 fear. When you get to 62 though, there may be problems for 62 Underworld due to losing all your magic for omegas

empty musk
#

It's definitely an improvement but it's become even more boon-reliant than before

#

There's a reason why ppl don't recommend Supay for UW, Vow of Forfeit makes those first rooms awful unless you took Hecate keepsake and get lucky w chamber rewards

#

But that's only really high fear, at mid fear it's easier than most weapons

glass bone
#

Also, while I believe Patch 9 could clear Max fear 67, I don’t think this Supay can, and 62 would be a very rough time compared to Circe, Nyx, Mel Staff, Anubis, and probably even Medea for the average player.

#

**I mentioned Medea in the same breath as “probably” because the skill floor for Medea is like with Morrigan at higher fears.

#

It has a high skill ceiling, but mistakes are punished harder

empty musk
#

I wish I could go back and time and convince ppl to not complain ab single ball

#

Like it was ugly af but 💔

shell bough
#

thanks makes sense

shell bough
glass bone
#

I feel like Patch 10 with 2 balls was fine for High Fear. Though at the same time, I don’t think high fear is the largest demographic of players

empty musk
#

Eh it's less of a power stance and more so 1 ball was more interesting to play

glass bone
#

Ah, I see

formal pulsar
#

Thoughts on Poseidon attack for artemis? I heard it was pretty good

glass bone
#

I’m not certain. The person who did that run tried to record another run like that, and could not. They would always time out, so they said

empty musk
#

I would subject myself to Artemis but I don't wanna interrupt my Eos grind 😩

empty musk
#

And we all know hitch is broken

#

But for Poseidon blades I don't think it's affected by icd at the very least

#

But the Aspect will rarely come into play for Poseidon attack so typically I prefer Mel on it

glass bone
#

I feel like Artemis would use Weed Killer / Sweeping Ambush, which the 57 had the latter

spiral wadi
#

(tho i would definitely not mind if they did it anyway)

#

i notice that whirling helix is also cracked on mel flame

empty musk
#

Hmm well actually looking at this screenshot splash basically did as much damage as the weapon

glass bone
#

That’s what I was thinking

empty musk
#

Idk how much of that tho was encounter damage where splash shines bc of aoe

glass bone
#

They said they used it to “melt life bars”, so I’m guessing that’s the AoE encounters

spiral wadi
#

yea splash doing that much damage is shocking lmao

#

like it's only the 1st enemy struck so ospecial blades wouldn't even splash much (presumably, i haven't played blades in forever)

empty musk
#

Like Splash mainly falls off vs guardians bc very difficult to get King Tide in a denial forfeit run

glass bone
#

It’s not OSpecial though

spiral wadi
#

yea it's on attack which is what gets me so confused lmao

glass bone
#

I’m guessing what really did it is the combo of blades

spiral wadi
#

ye i figure that too

glass bone
#

The combo is 2 hits, 5 rapid hits, and the final slice. I wonder if there’s a way to cancel the last hit with say, a dash attack

spiral wadi
#

it's prob like axe/staff combo where if u dash before the final strike, u'll still enter final strike anim

glass bone
#

And also if it’s worth it to keep the chain going for the final hit or not

#

Question; does Backstab also affect the waves?

#

**and also does hitting an enemy from the front get Backstab waves?

spiral wadi
#

uhh it's artemis so no backstab

glass bone
#

No I meant for Mel Blades

#

Because that’s a weapon that hasn’t been pushed much

spiral wadi
#

i remember waves interacting weirdly w backstab, not 100% sure tho

#

it is kinda funny that they have an aspect based on backstabbing then there's a hammer that guts backstabbing

#

dancing knives moment

glass bone
#

You know what… I don’t like the idea of me trying for Mel Axe. I want to now start a Mel Blades UW grind

spiral wadi
#

lesgo awaken the new blades meta

#

aphro ospec backstab shadesmile

formal pulsar
empty musk
#

Ugh ass

#

All of this bc of Pan smh

spiral wadi
#

pan should turn one of the blades into a frying pan

#

honestly considering how coat already has a baked in homing special feature i feel like they could literally just rework pan to smth else lmao

empty musk
#

Fr like if I wanted to play this I'd go back to H1 and play Chiron

#

At least I actually had stackable curses besides Scorch

spiral wadi
#

like imagine they pull from inverted blaze where for pan "your O-Specials linger for 3s, and return when you dash"

empty musk
#

Anything would be way more interesting than we have now

#

Bc Pan gameplay now is pray for Trick Knives

formal pulsar
#

The puzzling part to me is how they nuked pan while giving Medea an extremely light touch

empty musk
#

Oh ask Pronto he'll give you a lecture on that

#

Long story short new and casual players hate Medea and assume it's unsafe despite no longer being unsafe

spiral wadi
#

yea tbh there's no way they're just going to leave medea unscathed lmao

spiral wadi
empty musk
#

The cast bug will fs get removed 1.0 but I doubt Medea will get much else (nor do I think it should honestly)

spiral wadi
#

mm tru i could see them fixing cast bug and that'll be end of that

empty musk
spiral wadi
#

fair lol

empty musk
#

Most are able to just face tank at that fear level

#

But ig Medea just really scares them

spiral wadi
#

i'm p sure it's safer than mel torch lmao

#

at least it feels like it cuz i swear i'm dashing with mel torch and i still get hit mid-dash, not even using an atk/spec or anything

#

my current theory is that i'm dashing near the tail end of my special and it's counting as a dash attack

empty musk
#

I don't even know if a casual player thinks Mel Torch can be anything but Ripple Effect tho

#

Yk the build that doesn't actually utilize the aspect 💀

spiral wadi
#

LOL yea +15 magick on omega attack/special is insane i'm not building around that

#

like maybe if they do some crazy thing like "when you use 80 magick, gain global critical chance for a bit"

glass bone
#

Ok, so a few things of note.

  1. I got to first practice Mel Blades and do a whole bunch of testing. Highest I’ve gotten with them so far is
  2. I don’t plan on doing what I did with Circe for Mel Blades (40 -> 50 -> 62). Probably will turn on Pain 3, Scars 3, and Onion to start, then weave in Hordes and Grit and see if I can do it in UW
spiral wadi
#

then i'll actually take hecuba over like frinos or raki

#

what's the highest

glass bone
#

Sorry, forgot to include it

#

Fear level of…. 1.

#

Never touched it after doing the first testament I guess

spiral wadi
#

LOL that's me using flames, my 53f clear had cerb fear 2 bounty

glass bone
#

After getting a clear with all weapons in at-least UW, Sister Blades is my lowest

#

Just for a warm up, I’ll try within the range of 32-40

#

Probably no Rival Chronos, and certainly not Onion

spiral wadi
#

ye 32-40 is a good warmup

#

i remember during flames i'd just tick up fear as i felt more confident with the aspect rather than the number of clears i got

#

cuz i did not get any clear between 53 to 62

glass bone
#

Oh, I forgot the last thing. Aside from the testing builds, I also need to dump my current clears on to my YT channel or a hard drive. Had a Nergal run cut short cause Steam cut my recording

#

Not as if I was doing great, but that was the final blow

spiral wadi
#

dam ye

glass bone
#

I won’t rush it, so it may take many more weeks or even a few months before I attempt 62, but I’m thinking Mel Blades perhaps could cut down on bosses

#

Best part about Mel Blades though is I could probably aim for Static Shock as a wards clearer

#

I don’t think OSpecial / OAttack is noteworthy on Mel Blades, but I could be wrong

#

OSpecial more noteworthy than OAttack, but then to get wards cleared in time for Erebus…. Need to think about it

spiral wadi
#

gotta love the theorycrafting phase

#

i just like going balls deep like "ok that doesn't work" "ok that works a bit" "wait this is underused wtf"

glass bone
#

Ok I know it’s a big jump, but I think I could try 45

#

This is without Wards, Pain 3, Hordes, Grit, Onion, R4, and Void

spiral wadi
#

i kinda feel like wounds would be interesting on blades

#

could do some crazy heinous affront strat

glass bone
#

Isn’t there a 3 second delay per Wounds activation?

#

Or is it that Wounds has a 3 second duration and can be extended like Weak?

#

I have barely used Ares…

spiral wadi
#

yea as long as an enemy has wounds it can't be reapplied/reset until the wounds is cleared (in most circumstances, some cases are bugged but no one knows why)

#

the one intended exception is the wounds godsent

glass bone
#

So then Blades would always trigger Wounds?

#

Like I hit, get Wounds, next hit deals the damage, 3rd reapplies, repeat?

spiral wadi
#

basically ur atk or spec would apply wounds instantly and deal +50 power, then wait 3sec before wounds can do it again

glass bone
#

Oh…

spiral wadi
#

it feels unintuitive that wounds just has no effect beyond that besides t2 boons

#

but it is how it is lmao

glass bone
#

Would it be better then for Wounds to be on Special?

spiral wadi
#

prob if ur aiming for aoe? like if ur playing around dancing knives

#

tho atp i'd rather get hitch lol

#

wounds has t2 boons like "more likely to deal 200% damage on any damage source" or "drop plasma"

spiral wadi
#

now that i think about it why isn't wounds mechanically like froth

#

ig ares would be stealing poseidon's thing again so prob better to not change it

glass bone
#

Ok so I have basically cleared Mel Blades 45 now, and I learned a few things.

  1. I would have timed out had I not gone for Trick Knives on Sirens, probably.
  2. Poseidon Waves seem to Crit, but it still seems a bit inconsistent. It seems like if I get backstab on Mel Blades, it would often backstab on Waves (sometimes a Heroic Attack at Level 4 dealt 50, and other times it did 75.)
#

This is without Strength btw

spiral wadi
#

interesting

glass bone
#

**I say basically because I’m at Tartarus with no Rival Chronos

#

Idk if Poseidon waves is the right call here…

spiral wadi
#

high roll king's tide

glass bone
#

Sure thing… would I take Echo’s keepsake at 62 for that?

spiral wadi
#

good question i have no idea

#

esp in tartarus it's like super inconsistent on what boons u can get anyway so eh

glass bone
#

You mean Erebus?

spiral wadi
#

ah u said u were in tartarus rn

#

but ig echo would help proc legendary easier in erebus

glass bone
#

No, I’m talking about a hypothetical future run

#

I was at 1 minute left on Sirens, with Trick Knives

spiral wadi
#

i only remember getting 3 legendaries in recent memory and they were all in thessaly in diff runs

glass bone
#

And I also had around a minute or so left on Hecate

spiral wadi
#

dam yea blades kinda struggling w time huh

#

maybe scorch spec trick knives pyro tech

#

or splash spec trick knives for multi backstab value

#

unless icd guts it lmao

uneven palm
#

You get one wave per projectile, period, doesn’t matter if it hits 10 things or hits twice on the rebound, 1 wave. Poseidon in shambles on the blades

spiral wadi
#

so trick knives would create 3 splashes max?

uneven palm
#

I think but I haven’t tested lately

formal pulsar
#

Blades with blitz special is still strong specially on Mel blades

spiral wadi
#

it wouldn't matter for the returning splash anyway cuz we're aiming for backstab value rather than splash value

formal pulsar
#

I got a 55f clear with a build like that

uneven palm
#

Yeah meta a few patches back was Zeus special

#

I had a few surface 50s when that was meaningful

#

You could roll with Trick, Reaper, or Melting but you really wanted Trick

formal pulsar
#

I feel like with scorch attack and thermal dynamic that build is still strong.

spiral wadi
glass bone
#

Here’s the other thing. I high rolled in that run, but also made some mistakes.

I got a Level 4 Heroic Poseidon Attack by Erebus (Bridal Glow and Poms), but I also grabbed Cardio Gain with Huntress

uneven palm
glass bone
#

There are some other examples of high rolls and mistakes, but that’s what I thought of as I did the run

#

I’m thinking in the context of 62 attempts though

uneven palm
#

Fair

spiral wadi
#

ye thermal dynamics is like a direct upgrade to any build atm lmao

uneven palm
glass bone
#

Well I was using my Mel Staff loadout, trading Lovers and Queen for Huntress (and Messenger Bonus)

uneven palm
#

Dropping Lovers is brave AF respect

spiral wadi
#

interesting, i just strip furies for huntress lol

glass bone
#

I’m currently in an experimentation phase.

#

Idk if this is the way to go or not. This run I did at 45 and my Mel 51 were done with Pain 2 UW

spiral wadi
#

run excellence for east approval

formal pulsar
glass bone
#

I might trade Furies for Huntress instead if I do try for 62, but we shall see.

spiral wadi
glass bone
#

What do I try for the next run then? Since I am not impressed with Poseidon atm

formal pulsar
#

Only runs I had there was some runs that autumn put himself when the website had very few runs

uneven palm
#

Like I haven’t really been grinding blades much but if I was I’d be doing Hestia special to start, pray for Zeus for attack, cast, static, thermal dynamics.

#

Or Hera start and plan/pray on trick knives

#

Just really hard to beat Hestia/Zeus for overall damage IMO right now

glass bone
#

Hmmm… Hestia Special, Zeus Attack, Hera Cast, Demeter Arctic Gale?

#

Is that an optimal setup without Trick Knives?

uneven palm
#

That’d be pretty good. You don’t like need Arctic Gale

#

Wouldn’t be mad about Storm Ring either

#

But I only did 52f and I was dinking around just to put something on the board, I’m sure other things could work

#

lol my Mel blades 52f had Demeter attack and Poseidon cast. Arty had Hera attack, Apollo special, Storm Ring. Forfeit and debt, man

uneven palm
#

Anyway Red’s right there’s like no one seriously running non-Morrigan blades right now so try stuff out and we’ll probably all be surprised at what works out

glass bone
#

What’s the current Mel Blades record? 55?

#

I feel comfortable with several aspects at 51, so if I practice Mel Blades enough, I could probably push it a few notches up atleast

formal pulsar
#

Tho as I say there I had reroll hammer enabled because no TK just blows. But I wanna do another one without it

glass bone
glass bone
#

Whatever weapon I’m doing, I’m sticking to the route down below

formal pulsar
# glass bone Surface or UW retry?

I have practicing uw lately but it always good to smack typh on the surface.

Also I am not sure why bacn likes Zeus attack and hestia special. IMO the weapon plays better the other way. But hey try out what works best for you.

spiral wadi
#

it's prob just the very standard "do big damage" build lmao

#

but yea aphro spec is super cool i like that my initial concept actually has some ground to it

glass bone
#

Ok, I’ve had some time to think about the run, and though I don’t know when I’ll get around to it, I think I can do 56 Fear UW (no grit, hordes, or void).

#

I’d be looking for 3 things generally;

  1. A Hestia build to not time out in Erebus / Hecate
  2. Hestia Godsent
  3. Renewed Faith in Fields / Tartarus
#

A run such as this can and has happened to me before. All I need to do is wait and play well enough when the run falls to me.

#

The remaining 6 of Grit and Hordes I feel isn’t impossible with the same general strat, though I’d need even more damage for the non-Sirens, which will be much harder

uneven palm
spiral wadi
#

my god anchor enemies & auto seekers are even worse to deal with on mel flame wtf

#

freeze meta is not fun bouldy

#

i think im prob gonna strip huntress for furies cuz i can build consistently in ephyra to where i don't need % on special as much

#

then i can go back to strength and divinity will still stay

gritty solstice
#

Someone knows an interesting Artemis build?

civic ocean
#

I think Blades are kinda lowkey the other heph blast weapon to me idk why

#

I think it's because the anims are so low commit

hollow tartan
uneven palm
glass bone
#

Ok, idea time then.
Flame Strike
Volcanic Flourish
Blinding Rush
Static Shock
Aim for the three Heph duos (prioritizing Blasts)

#

How possible would that be in UW with Onion?

#

The alternative I did think of was instead of having Static Shock / Zeus or Flame Strike / Hestia, it would be Aphrodite for the bonus damage to attack, burning desire if Hestia Cast, and the heartthrobs.

civic ocean
sterile portal
kindred sonnet
#

which familiar do people play on circe now?

glass bone
glass bone
#

Also, I was thinking Flourish probably is better, because Volcanic Strike has lower damage, and scorch can stack better on attack if you get it (assuming you also don’t get Trick Knives)

#

Though there is the argument that Strike is better with the duos… hmmmm…

#

I’ll try Hephaestus start for my 51 attempt (turning on Wards and Rivals 4)

uneven palm
#

I dunno that Heph is the play for like ultra high fear since you’re so resource constrained but also it hasn’t been tried much I bet

stray pivot
#

Heph need a lot of sustain i wouldnt try it in high fear

uneven palm
#

Without Onion and Debt it’s probably fine

glass bone
#

Meh, I feel like Debt is fine. Really the problem sounds like Onion, and maybe Wards