h2-builds-and-combat

[glass bone]

Ok, actually, correction; you can still Dash Attack -> OAttack fast. It’s just that you have to dash out of Dash Attack. I.e. Sprint -> Dash Attack -> Dash -> Charge OAttack

[upper rapids]

I assumed the icd didnt apply on morrigan aswell but oh well

[uneven palm]

All Blades are the primary victims

[analog osprey]

hello, is medea skull still amazing?

[uneven palm]

Yes

[hasty path]

Question

Does Winner's Circle make DOT casts (ex: Aphrodite circle) do damage faster, or is it a detriment because it cuts off the damage?

According to the wiki...

Both are true.

For certain ones.

[civic ocean]

The wiki is out of date afaik

WC does NOT increase tick rate, only shortens duration

[hasty path]

Ah, thank you.

[civic ocean]

Red has pointed out a few times that this isn’t strictly bad especially against bosses, because it lets you quickly reposition the cast

[hasty path]

That's true, that's true.

I'm just kinda making something that I need information to be correct about

This game is so, so versatile, I love it

[civic ocean]

I like it a lot yeah

[indigo viper]

I haven't played for 2 weeks? I got such massive skill issues that I can't beat 32 fear surface even with OP supay.
Also, I didn't know that you can't summon Athena via her keepsake in summit, if you met her before in Olympia

[uneven palm]

Yeah, one Athena boon max

[surreal hazel]

Imagine renewed faith and stalwart defiance

[indigo viper]

Isn't that possible with Echo?

[surreal hazel]

you know, I've never tried

you'd have to get a nautral athena spawn before getting echo to proc on any other boon choice up to then so...

[civic ocean]

Very very unlikely but yes

[glass bone]

How does the Death Defiance check with Gorgon Amulet work for the Mourning Field rooms?

Is it a check on encounter, or on room?

If the latter, then it’s impossible. If the former, it’s plausible.

[formal pulsar]

It can be easily setup by starting Athena keepsake in run 1, wait till she spawns and take stalwart stance and then die. Run 2 get echo to offer you boon boon boon. Just don’t salute the statue because it disables boon boon boon

[glass bone]

Oh, that’s how.

[formal pulsar]

Encounter

[glass bone]

Then what you’d have to do is have 1 death defiances on the start of the room before echo, 0 death defiances on the last encounter before Echo (and have it not be a miniboss room), have her trigger, then get that one specific option

[civic ocean]

Encounter iirc

[formal pulsar]

You don’t really need that elaborate setup.

Run 1 start with Athena keepsake and pick stalwart stance and die.
Run 2 use Athena whenever you want and pick renewed faith. And then when you see echo click boon boon boon for stalwart stance

[indigo viper]

Encounter, I tried recently - she showed up at first encounter but still i had left the others one to clear.

[indigo viper]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/966770989121822724/1408527257831477308/obraz.png?ex=68aa10bb&is=68a8bf3b&hm=7519250fc9ef6189bba09ac396d95593e019dde1742c7899996441a2d342f747&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1240&height=698
Echo didn't want to gave me giftgift so i haven't to check if it's possible but still discovered some funny things:

• Posejdon and Demeter's duo works like bridal glow - you can sell it, keeps exyta levels and gain it later (and sell again)
• Hera's gain seemingly capped at max 5 mana, similar to Hefajstos' cd on attacks rip my unlimited mana cracked build dream
• Star sea works on Narcs' gifts - mojra's extra roll and that second thing + works on moon statues reward too
• Hades' bonus for DD isn't set in stone - it might gives you bigger bonus if you use dd after his room/encounter

[digital juniper]

does the oattack from blades count as a TP or is it a really fast dash? i.e can you get hit in that distance you’re moving?

[glass shell]

tp

[glass bone]

Well folks, it’s time for me to earn my namesake. I’m gonna start going for 62 starting today. Not sure how long it’ll take, but I hope to get it in before 1.0 releases

[past salmon]

Glhf

[civic ocean]

You got this

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1408561310177689712/clip_1755897384686.mp4 why dodge when u get punished for trying to dodge

[glass bone]

Ok, took a bit of a stop for the moment. First run I immediately got nuked because I’m not used to Onion & Scars 3. Second run brought me to Rival Cerberus (but died there).

I thought I had a very clean Oceanus compared to Erebus, until Spotlight Charbydis showed up.

I didn’t expect to get that far on even my second run, but it does seem like with a bit more skill and a lucky run, I can beat 62 UW (cause there’s no way I’m doing surface for a while)

I can theoretically clear 58 (removal of Pain 3 and Scars 3) like, tonight. But 62 will take a while longer.

[upper rapids]

man trying underworld a bit more really reminded me why its so boring

[glass bone]

I feel like it’s just Erebus making a subpar first impression.

If you looked at Regions 2-4 of Surface vs Underworld, how much better does one look over the other?

[upper rapids]

nah the biomes are just lame and the bosses apart from scylla and chronos are eh

[glass bone]

I guess it’s a matter of preferences.

[upper rapids]

the downside of surface is thessaly because you can get like no boons but thats it for me

[glass bone]

Though to be fair, I just don’t like Surface because I suck at it. Olympus and Summit as of late is the worst.

**to be clear, I’m speaking about the Rival fights beyond 32.

[upper rapids]

olympus is fun with its map layouts and the god shrines are interesting, also falling on enemies to kill them is fun
summit always feels short so theres that i guess but id rather have the biome be short rather than long like tart, even if its nothing incredible

healing can spawn on a door??? wow

oh artemis

[glass bone]

Tartarus can be shorter than Summit though.

[upper rapids]

with skips yea but also the rooms can have some annoying enemies, like the satyrs that have a delay
or all the time pouches

[glass bone]

I’d rather deal with the laser room than those laser serpents that teleport everywhere.

[upper rapids]

yea understandable im the opposite funily enough
i know that some of the rewards are used as reagents for incantations or decors or upgrades but ignoring that, ive like 15 Cinder and 112 Wool so lol

[glass bone]

The one I won’t deny is the Gold Pouch Boss. That thing is super unfun to deal with personally. But it’s not as if I am love with all the Surface / Summit minibosses.

Idk if this would be a good suggestion, but it would be nice for icons to appear for minibosses, minishops, and final shops

[cerulean panther]

The gold pouch was the precursor to the Yargonaut and Mega Dracon having completely unreasonable armor pools and pittances for HP.

[glass bone]

I.e. what miniboss is behind each door, and not having to remember the number of rooms there for the mini shop

[upper rapids]

minishop vs shop sounds good but miniboss "rng" is not that bad, it can be fun

[spiral wadi]

tbh the only reason i consider surface to be more fun is cuz the first 2 regions are actually relatively chill compared to the first 2 regions of uw

[civic ocean]

Ephyra in particular

[upper rapids]

getting a build going from the getgo within ephyra is just so good

[spiral wadi]

so by olympus and summit u'd have enough of a stable build to deal with the more difficult bosses that are prom and typhon

[upper rapids]

but erebus and oceanus are so urgh
like why do i need to have such a slow first biome and the second biome locks doors behind clearing additional waves

[spiral wadi]

meanwhile ur fighting for rng on whether u get enough skip rooms in erebus, whether u get the boons u need to beat hecate in time, ur death defiances for scylla, etc etc

[glass bone]

That’s my perspective also. Ephyra feels like the most fun because it gives you all these choices and rewards. The rest of the regions (Surface included) don’t have that.

But then I despise the latter two Surface regions in the highest fears I’ve cleared.

[upper rapids]

in uw if i get to chronos i know i can beat him
on surface if i get to typhon or even prom im still not confident
so i think i like that difficulty ramp better

[cerulean panther]

The instantaneous buildcrafting in Ephyra is maybe H2's biggest dopamine hit.

Had a Persephone run start me with a 2 second Volcanic Flourish, got Apollo on the second room, had Rude Awakening by the second door in Ephyra proper.

[spiral wadi]

ye, uw first 2 regions are pretty hectic but last 2 are chillin' (for the most part), surface is inverted

and also typhon 4th phase is an rng fest

[empty musk]

Erebus is prob the hardest region in the game at high fear bc it's the only one where you have to rely on magic channeling (especially omega cast) to keep up with timer. Then VoR Chronos is harder than VoR Typhon

Meanwhile Ephyra is such a good region that you can basically make the build right there, but you kinda HAVE to make the build. If you don't onion could result in no boons during Thesally. You also have to be a lot smarter w spending bc of debt

Basically I think UW starts and ends harder (Erebus + Chronos), while Surface the middle two regions are the hardest (Thesally for timer and Prom/Heracles bc of hp)

[cerulean panther]

Oh, I shot the feedback I gave 'cause I fatfinger'd Enter and now I have to wait another 30 minutes. 🙃

[upper rapids]

4th as in after the instakill, or the baby phase

cuz from memory theres the first phase, then 2 eggs, then zeus replaced by chronos, then instakill, then baby

phase after instakill is what dealt all the damage to me in one run and took like 3 dds

[empty musk]

The baby phase

Instakill has egg rng bc it can technically be iframed

Ring meanwhile will always take longer if it goes beneath chin

[upper rapids]

for the baby phase i just take any damage from chronos as granted, can only focus on typhon atm

[cerulean panther]

How wide is Chronos's moveset on the summit? 'Cause it seems to me like it's borderline his entire P1 standard kit.

I stopped trying Rivals 4 after like my third attempt.

I really don't like having a completely invunerable endboss in my endboss fight.

[upper rapids]

pull
scythe
rifts, i think two types
orbitals, two types aswell i think
instakill

off the top of my head

time bubble

[empty musk]

Most of his moves are pretty scripted tho

Like Scythe he only ever does from one end of the arena

Babality is still lame tho after the first time

[cerulean panther]

I can live with the Babality, dealing with the pull during that while Typhon is raining down hell?

[spiral wadi]

babality is fine i've just accepted to ignore chronos orbs

[upper rapids]

wish there'd be some incantation that either shortens the time for babality or makes one of the bosses less active

[spiral wadi]

like at least 5 chronos orbs will hurt way less than typhon lolol

[cerulean panther]

I want Chronos to follow EM Fury rules, he gets like 3 moves and they're all reduced efficacy compared to his full kit.

Unrivaled Typhon himself is still a bullet hell nightmare that would give Divine Dash Zagreus pause.

[spiral wadi]

woah there hold on u want chronos to start throwing scythes at you?

[cerulean panther]

I want him to stop throwing scythes at me when he's Impervious and I can do nothing to stop him.

[empty musk]

I mean I think Unrivaled Typhon is fine after learning it, the main issue that nonrival Typhon doesn't force a player to properly learn the moveset and instead just tank damage

[cerulean panther]

Let me smack him up and he slows down? Sure.

[spiral wadi]

wait chronos in babality or just rchronos

[empty musk]

Basically you're saying you want counterplay beyond dodging

Seems to be a common complaint of a lot of players lowkey even if I don't necessarily agree with it

[spiral wadi]

poke chronos to make him go away

[empty musk]

Like that one player who was always ranting about Poly grab

[cerulean panther]

I'd be okay with Impervious Chronos if he had fewer attacks, as well.

[spiral wadi]

yo pre-nerf poly grab was so fun to dodge and now it's reduced to nothing

[empty musk]

When the real move without counterplay is Poly listen 😭

[upper rapids]

personally dont even need coutnerplay just make the chances of annoying pattern overlays really low

[spiral wadi]

i was literally standing right in front of poly the other day during p11, no dodging, and poly didn't grab me

please buff poly grab to former glory

[upper rapids]

give the man his bigger hug

[cerulean panther]

Someone didn't play launch Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer.

Getting flashbacks to Banshee magnet hands from Unrivaled Poly's launch grab.

Make it fast, make it sneaky, he shouldn't have Marth's grab hitboxes.

[glass bone]

Sure thing. Poly’s Rival Grab now has the suck effect of Chronos and those guys in Mourning Fields.

[empty musk]

Nah Poly grab wasn’t overtuned bc of range it was overtuned bc of speed

[spiral wadi]

cooking

[empty musk]

Or ig the two in combo, particularly for melee

[spiral wadi]

nah speed was perfectly fine, it was the range that was weird

[cerulean panther]

I consistently got grabbed well outside the range, in the middle of Dashes even.

[spiral wadi]

but it was dodgable by anticipating his grab so u run away like 0.5sec before he starts the grab animation

i did this so many times and it was peak

[upper rapids]

prometheus gaming

[cerulean panther]

Players exhibiting observation haki is cool. I did that a few weeks ago playing AC6, just felt that airburst grenades were coming and dodged out of the way even on that atrocious netcode.

It shouldn't be practically required the way Poly's grab used to work.

[empty musk]

I feel like most of the complaints ab Poly are just complaints ab melee builds: like SG designed a bunch of enemies that punish CQC but gave no other incentive to engage in besides Aphrodite boons

Like anticipating old Poly grab would be fair if every weapon had to do it, the issue was only a few builds had to

[spiral wadi]

regardless it's still a good habit to use for all other poly moves, grab just happens to be one of them

[upper rapids]

havent played uw in so long that vermin is actually an issue holy

[empty musk]

Twilight Curse

[upper rapids]

i have lunar ray bud

im gonna blind the rat to death

[spiral wadi]

mm makes sense

but idk i mean with melee builds u could still anticipate it and run away, the time for anticipating it and for poly's grab to complete pre-nerf was like 1.5s total? so not that much time lost

[empty musk]

Imo the only enemy that rewards CQC is Eris bc dodging behind her

[empty musk]

Right but like is a skull gonna have to even think ab that

Meanwhile coat stuck in the omega attack animation over here

[upper rapids]

ah yes eris , the boss that hides in flames /jk

[spiral wadi]

not anymore lolol

[upper rapids]

still wish that eris would have some clear indicator of where she falls when the bomb smoke is on the map, or when enemies are clustered together

[spiral wadi]

eris is funny but also annoying cuz she'll sometimes pull out the most diabolical laser direction

[upper rapids]

the little gust of wind on the ground doesnt count that gets hidden by bomb smoke and is near instant on frenzy2

[spiral wadi]

idk i still react to the gust of wind, but yea it should def be bigger lol

[upper rapids]

when field is empty or with enemies and/or smoke

[empty musk]

Pretty sure you can dodge the first hit and use the dash to reposition for the next hit so knocks u somewhere harmless

[upper rapids]

because empty field i do too and thats on me if i miss it but otherwise idk

[spiral wadi]

o yea i misread, ye eris kinda just shows up wherever she wants under raining bomb/enemies

[cerulean panther]

I have been trying to see where Eris lands through her cluster runs and I'm 85% sure it was intentionally designed to be invisible.

[empty musk]

Visual clutter def has to be cleaned up for 1.0

[cerulean panther]

I don't think she just just one-frames back into existence on the field, but the animation is very hidden.

[empty musk]

Mhm like a smokescreen? Ig even if you don't know where she lands should still be able to react

[upper rapids]

charybdis feature were cooked boys o7

[spiral wadi]

imagine eris in 4th phase pulls out the shadow cloud fang

[empty musk]

Eris is one of Mel's reasons for her depression after all

[upper rapids]

living vicariously through mel with that one

[digital juniper]

how do you guys build than axe? i like hera attack, then maybe something like aphro/pos/dem cast for origination. regular special is so bad idk if its even worth going for a boon there

[formal pulsar]

Putting blitz or heph blast on axe special is not to be underestimated.

It can be a big chunk of your damage

[digital juniper]

special into oattack you say?

[formal pulsar]

Yeah the special can mash well into your combos

Like right after dashing or attack attack special to prevent the big chop or special before oatk

Also make sure you dashing after charging your oatk for better positioning

[digital juniper]

yeah 2x attack into special to avoid the combo finisher is something i do. but was thinking about it. dash into special also sounds like a good idea

if i take zeus special for example, would ospecial apply blitz on all enemies hit, or just one?

[formal pulsar]

All

If you are spinning weed killer is also biiiig dmg boost since you are going for Demeter anyway. And don’t over relay on oatk without psychic hammer because sometimes you over commit and you end up getting gnawed while charging

[echo briar]

Trying to run an aspect of hel run rn (with hestia attack) what hammer upgrades should I look out for?

[empty musk]

Basically any of the Hel-exclusive hammers minus Helheim Charge and Runic Driver

Only special hammer worth taking is prob the one that deals armor damage (and it's still not ideal)

[dusty hazel]

i accidentally stumbled into a black coat build that made my omega attack do over 1000 damage consistently

[upper rapids]

What it be

[dusty hazel]

nova strike, chant (from chaos), blackened fleece, weed killer, reaper frame, and i think strength

although this was at the end of a judgement run so i had a LOT of other arcana cards active

then the next run i did just the same, but with a different build, and probably higher damage capability

ares attack, hephaestus special (this one was the main damage dealer), aphrodite dash, origination, and various other supplementary boons

[maiden hound]

finally done a run with the aspect of eos
it went pretty well. even during times when I just primed all my mana for very simple and dumb reasons. aoe is great, but focused damage is understandably very hard... not sure if it was just because it was a somewhat average build, or I needed more of something else. I effectively lost to tail (needed all my moon waters to beat it), and typhon I barely got past the chronos time bubble part before I lost. I just feel like there was something I could've done far better, but I wouldn't know what

[pearl lotus]

Aspect of Shiva question: with Exceptional Talent are both hits from Omega attack affected by Destructive?

[willow phoenix]

No the first hit consumes the stack

Also fyi the second hit is currently bugged and deals like super low damage

[pearl lotus]

oh alright, thanks

[spiral granite]

Guy's, can you give some tips on Pan?
I have so far been severely disapointed. I have been keeping up with Hades 2 since early acess began, but only started playing in the latest patch. Chiron was my fav Hades 1 aspect, but so far Pan has been a terrible disapointment.

[woeful moth]

;( died to chrono p3 on 60f

Because of vow of time

Mb because I also used void 2 I didn't have enough damage

[median anvil]

how are you using void2 at 60 fear

which other vows are you not running

[vague eagle]

Hey what’s the best way to get the achievement for using an Olympian’s Greater Call against them in a trial?

I have gotten trial against sb whose call I have, but I can’t get my call charged up to full

[median anvil]

well this is the hades 2 chat but basically you should use fist or railgun because they generate more call energy, use jury summons 3 for max number of enemies, and you can deliberately take damage to get more charge

[vague eagle]

Oops wrong chat

[median anvil]

there are also a few boons that help you generate more charge

[vague eagle]

Thanks!

[tall notch]

60f is old 50f + rivals 3 + void 2

Wait nvm they just said Chronos p3? Huh this is even stranger than i thought

[glass bone]

Maybe that’s without Scars 3?

Although removing just Scars 3 is 62 with Void 2

[tall notch]

It could be missing any 4 points of fear from a 64, we won't guess it i think

[glass bone]

Yeah…

Well, I got a question of my own; Storm Ring vs Smolder Ring at ‘standard 62’. Which one is the better start?

[tall notch]

Is that for Circe?

[glass bone]

Yes

[tall notch]

I think storm? Because you can build for air quality and you probably want blitz somewhere

[glass bone]

**Circe 62 UW

[tall notch]

Me personally I'm an anvil ring believer

[glass bone]

I’m just personally stumped a bit on clearing Erebus, since I know Omega moves are essentially required to beat the Timer without insane luck

[tall notch]

Are you comfortable with Toula?

[glass bone]

That’s who I have been using

[tall notch]

Then just go overtime

[glass bone]

My current Strat is OCast -> Dash Attack + Special spam till Storm Ring, then just mix in Storm Ring casts and OCasts into Dash Attack -> Special spam

[tall notch]

Try dropping the omegas and getting comfortable at using base staff. Aspectless staff using the base moveset could clear pre-rivals 50 fear, you can play it for the first 2-3 rooms

Maybe weave in oattack vs high health targets if you like the move

[glass bone]

Ok

[tall notch]

You may run out of time but it's fine, 5 damage per second is really not that much and UW throws DD refills at you

[glass bone]

True. Only problem is then a skill issue if I take damage. Got to go hitless Erebus and Oceanus pre bosses I guess.

Considering my second run, I know I can do it. A lot more practice, a bit of luck, and 62 shall be mine.

[median anvil]

yeah that's why I'm surprised

[digital juniper]

what has been your biggest roadblock so far?

[tall notch]

Also as a small note, I haven't actually ran high fear Circe yet but I did all 3 staves 50f without using their aspect abilities at all and that's what I'm basing the "ditch early omegas" advice on @glass bone

[glass bone]

Scars 3 / Pain 3. Not getting the fountain healing and lower damage taken compared to the Rank 2 counterparts is certainly a gameplay shift

Onion, and the Gritted Hordes are annoying in Underworld, but it hasn’t been as bad as that shift.

[tall notch]

DTB what's your highest fear? I don't wanna sound discouraging but if you're not used to scars 3 pain 3 a 62 may be too high a jump from what you already did

[glass bone]

50

[tall notch]

50 with rivals or without

[glass bone]

Max Rivals.

So I guess ‘38 + Rivals 4’

[tall notch]

Ok yeah you're doing a massive jump right now, I'd strongly suggest practicing something lower first

[glass bone]

I had planned on doing that first, but A. I want to get it in before 1.0 has some potentially massive balance changes, and B. If I can get a lucky run, I can lock in and theoretically get it

Had I not tried to save that one run, I would be doing that. But I have a week less of time compared to what I desired.

**compared to the unknown deadline

[tall notch]

I would recommend even doing something between 55-58 first, but I wish you the best of luck still!

[median anvil]

scars3 and pain3 are both massive adjustments

going straight for 62 is indeed a bit too much

[tall notch]

It's still crazy to me how different people's fear progression became with rivals. Wdym by 50f without scars 😭

[glass bone]

To be fair, the Rival Fights are pretty difficult.

You’re trading difficulty across the whole run for centralized pain points.

[past salmon]

On Circe I don't think you need to omega at all

[tall notch]

O we spawned Foolish
Hi Foolish!

[past salmon]

Hi cold

[tall notch]

They are, but it's still such a different route of progression it always takes me off-guard

[past salmon]

I have now died uh
7? 8 times in tart?
This is so sad someone remove my ability to choke

[glass bone]

To Chronos or to the encounters?

[past salmon]

5 to Chronos

[glass bone]

Also, idk if this is motivation or demotivation, but Boated in his most recent video said ‘Max Fear tomorrow’.

If it’s a competition to be first, then there’s some motivation. Maybe that’ll help?

[past salmon]

Boateds PB is Cerb
He hasn't gotten past Sirens again

[glass bone]

Ah, I was about to say ‘Did Boated seriously get a clear within like… 5 days of practice?’

[glass shell]

are we getting a boated supercut of 67

him just getting his ass beat on repeat for 2 hours

[glass bone]

If it’s not a clear, probably a Fail comp.

[glass shell]

i'd find the comp more fun to watch tbh, not knowing how or when a run will end

[glass bone]

Hmmm… Alright. Ill be doing far more 62 attempts today than yesterday, so I’ll try no Omega practice through the first few rooms (Toula for the help in room clearing)

[digital juniper]

was the closest one that backswing choke, or were there closer attempts?

regardless, atp it’s a matter of time until you get it

i’ll see myself out

[median anvil]

i mean scars3 is kinda crazy so you can drop that and some other stuff like hordes or onion and take more rivals instead

[median anvil]

he said tomorrow?

I'm skeptical 🤨

how much has he been grinding? and foolish said his pb is cerb

i mean he can definitely do it eventually but, tomorrow?

[glass shell]

thats the neat part, every day you watch the video its always tomorrow, never today

[glass bone]

No idea. All I heard was what he said in his most recent video at 0:39

Not as if I knew pbs. I’m just the messenger

[median anvil]

oh man he really did say it

let's see what he does 😨

[glass bone]

Either it’s a fail comp, he hasn’t been sharing his actual PB, or he said that to assume he can push the real PB in < 24 hours

[median anvil]

what if he's already beat it and is just edging us

boated conspiracy theory??

[glass bone]

Or what if it’s a Godmode clear?

[past salmon]

You are reading too much into it, it's just gonna be his first video on max fear.

Maybe a fail comp/his PB run

[median anvil]

fail comp would be fun to watch

90% of the video will be in erebus

[tall notch]

Didn't he say it's gonna be a compilation? Am i making things up?

[median anvil]

i didn't watch the full vid so i may be missing some context

[glass bone]

No idea.

[median anvil]

at 0:39 he just says "max fear tomorrow"

[tall notch]

I didn't watch the video but i thought he mentioned it's gonna be a compilation somewhere in the discord

[past salmon]

Idk Boat might clear at some point but idk if he has the time for it.

For him he probably would have to spend time practicing at minimum Chronos. I don't think his fight is clean enough yet

[tall notch]

I'm not joining yall btw, not any time soon. Playing without arcana doesn't sound like my idea of fun

Maybe if I run out of things to do after 1.0

[glass bone]

I also will not. 62 is fine enough for me if I can clear it

[past salmon]

I wasn't expecting you to tbh
Timeout warlord smh

[tall notch]

I may try 64-65 once I get comfortable with 62s

[past salmon]

I nearly timed out in Cerb today
Had some hot ass for a build

Actually tickling him

[tall notch]

Did you just copy one of my builds?

[past salmon]

Idk I had like flame strike Medea or smth
Truly peak

[median anvil]

I'm also considering trying some 65s after getting comfortable with 62

but as things are now i don't think I'll be a 67er

[past salmon]

Tbh I don't recommend 65F at all lol
It's almost identical to 62F you just don't get rerolls

It's basically 62F but less fun

[median anvil]

but the funny number is higher!!

[glass bone]

What about the two inbetween?

[glass shell]

it would honestly be so funny if its like a 30 minute video of him dying in the first like 3 rooms of erebus

[glass bone]

(63/64)

[median anvil]

if you're gonna do a judgement run may as well go all in

[past salmon]

63/64/65 are all functionally the same since you are pretty much just going to be running judgement

[median anvil]

by the way @past salmon are you ever gonna switch your pfp to the finished medea art or is it just that

[past salmon]

I'll change my pfp at some point

[glass shell]

lowkey the WIP art looks better somehow

[glass bone]

Foolish pfp changes with 1.0 release?

[median anvil]

objectively wrong

[glass bone]

Nah, the actual complaint to have imo is that the Surface NPCs do not have multiple designs like the Underworld NPCs

[glass shell]

im honestly trying to recall if i have ever seen echo/narc/hades etc have two different emotes and i don't think so?

[median anvil]

echo does have different faces

narc and hades are completely stoic

[glass bone]

Echo has a change with her face
Narcissus has a change with his eyes
Hades only has the prisoner one (so that’s my bad)

[glass shell]

trust we get angry circe face when we invade her house at 1.0

[glass bone]

At-least according to the wiki (so a grain of salt), Narcissus has some moments with his eyes closed https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Narcissus

That’s more than what Medea and Circe get

[median anvil]

he just blinks occasionally

[junior trail]

i need dio's pack jiggling physics when his portrait shows up

[tall notch]

Arguably 62f but more fun because you get to gamble

[junior trail]

not like crazy but for the immersive experience

[tall notch]

Then she transforms you into a pig and you have to finish the run like that

[fair narwhal]

Guys you can just @me when you have questions I’m in this discord

No I didn’t clear max fear, I have beaten sirens multiple times with multiple aspects now but my assistant @past salmon usually will have the most up to date information about me give or take the time in-between us chatting

[tall notch]

I don't know why but I thought you left it at some point

[civic ocean]

@ Boated how do you feel about Potato Salad with and without mustard

[thin ridge]

…..a what?

[civic ocean]

Max fear attempter

[fair narwhal]

Nope

[fair narwhal]

Mustard has 0 calories so I tend to put that on everything 👍

[tall notch]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-cat-cat-gatito-crazy-insane-gif-4445261359056491120

[tall notch]

That's how i see 67f grinders

[tall notch]

Have you tried Polish mustard? It's really nice

[fair narwhal]

Nope just Walmart mustard

Also yeah I’m not beating 67 im playing it to make fun videos and that’s about it

[glass shell]

i expect a 3 hour supercut pls

[civic ocean]

A fellow efficionado

[civic ocean]

I do 67 attempts only on Circe because void is the last vow left and my grind adds whole vows

[stable herald]

I had cranberry mustard once, it made me contemplate making mustard my hobby

[tall notch]

Wait so you already have a 62 circe?

[upper rapids]

What kinda mustard you got with 0 calories everything i find is so high in it so i resort to hot sauce

[spiral wadi]

ye

[fair narwhal]

French’s

[upper rapids]

Oh we aint got that kinda stuff damn

[civic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH2vReUp3OE&t=2416s

I think most of us do now

We might have to start calling the Staff the Crutch

To put it into perspective on Crossroads there are like 20 unique unseeded 62f Staff clears across 3 aspects and two 65s from patch 9 to 11

Blades has Foolish, Mynt, Boated, and FairyTHE on Morrigan and then the next highest on any other aspect is Bacn's 52s and my 51s

[spiral wadi]

the highest uw flames rn in patch 11 is 53f (mine), trying to get it up to at least 58f

it's like somewhat manageable without hidden helix but god it kinda needs it lmao

ig i know how psychic whirlwind is like now

[glass bone]

Flames as in Mel Flames? Or Flames as a whole?

also, I am still struggling with 62 Circe. I got frustrated, tried Eos, seemed to work well, and then flopped. It’s like… 1/4th of my runs make it to Oceanus in a desirable condition, and then another 1/4th of that make it to Mourning Fields.

[spiral wadi]

yea mel flames

ye circe requires a different build type

but once it clicks it starts getting funny

[glass bone]

I mean I got Eos to 43 I think. But that’s an even bigger jump than my record from Circe.

[spiral wadi]

i think eos is p good too, nail that one to 62

[upper rapids]

on charon do yall dash before or during the ospecial channel
im trying to dash in, cast, dash out ospecial but my input keeps getting ignored so i just stand there doing nothing and idk if its my mouse or if the ospecial into dash is better

[civic ocean]

Depends right like the whole point of dashing while channeling for me is to reposition the blasts or avoid damage

So dont do that if you dont have to

Oftentimes with Giga Cleaver I will not dash at all and just stand at the door and let it rip once

[upper rapids]

i find that against rooms with many enemies i just need to dash no matter what

giga cleaver turns mel into a sentry turret, stand in a corner and spam ospecial cast

[civic ocean]

One habit that I think gets you burned as you climb Fear is dashing as part of a routine and not as a like reaction to what is happening

[upper rapids]

that could be it yea but it feels charon specific rn as it sometimes just doesnt read my ospecial input at all after a dash

[civic ocean]

Sometimes yeah

[upper rapids]

but yea using dash as primarily mobility has to stop at a certain point

its why i avoid stutter step cuz i wanna learn to play with the least amount of dashes but highest quality per dash

[spiral granite]

Heh guy's, for medea, which are the best attacks and specials?

[civic ocean]

Anything + zeus probably?

[upper rapids]

zeus special because the blitz dmg is so good when you can proc it near instantly
then theres options for attack
hephaestus with good rarity and poms
demeter for safety
apollo or aphro for beeg damage
ares but find grievous blow and maybe heinous affront

idk about hestia poseidon

[tall notch]

I did Eos 58f have you not seen it

[upper rapids]

just sea starred an onion, this is the run bois

[civic ocean]

Think they meant mel

[tall notch]

Oh

[civic ocean]

Foolish has a patch 11 65 Eos

There's a 62 surface modded Mel

[spiral wadi]

yea i meant mel flame mb

[tall notch]

I could do a 58 if I seeded an inverted spark start

Or had the time/patience to grind it out

[digital juniper]

realistically what’s the latest you could get inverted spark for the run to be viable?

[indigo viper]

I'd like to try even higher fears run buuuut I'm really afraid of timer's vow.

[tall notch]

I don't know if I'd get past Oceanus without

[uneven palm]

Timer's not bad if you're not taking the stuff that makes things take forever (Hordes, Grit, Wards)

[indigo viper]

Tbh, I have some uncanny feeling of some "hiperinflation" in terms of fear/difficulty.
Like, 32 heat in hades 1 feels for me a lot harder than 32 fear, even in surface route.

[tall notch]

It's not the only viable build but the only one I'm ready to take to 58f

[digital juniper]

would resetting for c2 or c3 hammer make sense instead of hoping for it somewhere up to scylla?

[tall notch]

Potentially but I just really dislike playing like this, so I won't be grinding that out any time soon

[indigo viper]

Maybe I'll try to do timer (start with 3 or slowly? 1-2-3?) without any other vows to get use to do everything faster.
Grit and wards are my usually go to go vows.

[uneven palm]

32 Heat is harder I think. Helps in H2 that Rivals is worth even more fear so you've got options

[digital juniper]

i agree it’s not really fun and while completely fair, feels kinda cheesy, but it is a way to potentially save time if you really want the 58f clear with it i guess

[uneven palm]

Yeah don't do Wards and Grit they're huge time sinks

[digital juniper]

what’s 58 differ to 62? rivals 3 i assume?

[tall notch]

Maybe i have too much fear brainrot because they really feel like about similar level of difficulty to me

[digital juniper]

what’s your average clear time? i feel like if you can clear 32f without timer, surely you can do up to timer 2 without any worries at slightly lower fears

[uneven palm]

They're close IMO. I think H2 giving you more for Rivals frees up some annoyances, but some Rivals bosses are also much harder so maybe a toss-up

[digital juniper]

tbf in H1 the first 2 levels of EM are genuinely free

and with a bit of experience so is EM3

[indigo viper]

Not for me.
I really feel difficult spike when I barely did 32 heat (and never do it again lol) vs more or less causally doing 32 fear on both surface and underworld.
Like, in hades 1 I couldn't even imagine go past 32 heat. sorry, I'm little sloppy

[digital juniper]

(speaking up to 32h, never went past that in H1)

[tall notch]

H1 also had some free fear h2 doesn't. Underworld customs was only 1 fear less than onion and it's free. The trap one is fine at 32. Things like scars (whatever the scars thing was in heat) having more ranks

[digital juniper]

yeah lasting consequences (scars equivalent) having more levels made it so much easier

[civic ocean]

idk about the trap one being fine it does make Hades himself pretty hard no

[tall notch]

Also that, rivals 3 is a way harder click than em3

[civic ocean]

Though I guess you just dont em4

[digital juniper]

also IMO middle management (shadows in H2) is significantly easier in h1

[tall notch]

Yeah you don't need to em4 at 32

[uneven palm]

Those pots hit for 150 on regular hades with the trap heat on

[civic ocean]

doesnt each vase do like a billion

[uneven palm]

yeah, those are traps

[civic ocean]

Hated those things

[digital juniper]

yeah, the trap one made the hades vases do 150 damage each, and it’s easy to get lost in the sauce and get hit by atleast one, even without EM4

[spiral wadi]

what causes flames to not bring cast out because i swear i tap cast and it'll just decide not to take it out

[tall notch]

Also benefits package was easier than fangs I'll be real

[spiral wadi]

not fun when i get hyperspeed wailers

[indigo viper]

That's problem. My usually runs are quite slow - 18-25 mins? But closer to 20-22 ig.
Like, I'm slow type player, my first 32f runs was 40 mins+ (yes, with hordes 3, ward, grit and protection, lol; but clear is clear)

[civic ocean]

maybe input lag?

[digital juniper]

hordes 3 at 32f? do you hate yourself my friend?

[spiral wadi]

nah latency is fine

[uneven palm]

20-22 is right there for maxed time. A little practice and some hustle and you'd be fine

[civic ocean]

I have some guesses as to why it was 40+ minutes perhaps independent of your playing speed

[digital juniper]

but id say just having the timer on inherently makes you want to go a bit faster, i’d suggest you turn on timer 2 and see how you fare against it, i think you’ll find it not as bad as you thought

[indigo viper]

That lately run with 40f was also with hordes 3, grit 3 and wards 2...
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/966770989121822724/1408922992829792276/obraz.png?ex=68ab814a&is=68aa2fca&hm=a184a4579b7059b6d8e8199799a42f3d47ea7a68f4ed33d5f0fc712ccb0ef1f5&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1240&height=698
yeah, could work rn

[digital juniper]

also, get into the habit of pausing when choosing rooms and such if you haven’t already, it adds up throughout the run

[digital juniper]

no access

[uneven palm]

lol that's my nightmare 40

[civic ocean]

just like ballparking it, Hordes + Grit + Wards makes the average room about 2.5x as bulky?

so if you divide 40 by about 2.5 that's 16 minutes

[upper rapids]

speaking of long runs
asked a couple days ago but gonna ask again, how long does ephyra take for yall without hordes and grit

[uneven palm]

That feels right. Maybe 3x if there's huge waves of trash you'd have one-tapped without Wards

[digital juniper]

piggybacking on your question as a new player, how do you guys manage your movement throughout the chambers? i swear i lose so much time just traversing between them because i can’t plan for crap

[uneven palm]

I usually get out of Ephyra with 1:30ish on the timer taking every side room because greedy. Kinda depends on the map.

[civic ocean]

Ephyra is pretty highly variable but assuming I get one skip, one medea/midboss and take the side rooms that give major finds, probably 3.5-4 minutes or so?

[indigo viper]

Idk, with Supay I don't really feel that, maybe because a lot of multihits.
Idk if my first underworld 32 fear wasn't hordes + wardes on Mel axe. That would be pain.
This run was 23 mins. #h2-victory-boasting message

[upper rapids]

is that with or without poly included

[civic ocean]

I promise you that if you turned off hordes wards and grit you can beat the game under 20 minutes

[upper rapids]

id say i average maybe 2:30-3 mins to clear ephyra excluding poly but it still feels slow

[digital juniper]

you can tell which side rooms have major finds?

[civic ocean]

including poly, even on Rivals Polyphemus is the fastest boss in the game

[upper rapids]

gotcha

[uneven palm]

That seems fine by me

[upper rapids]

hm

[civic ocean]

Whether or not the poison deals like 70 damage to me on the other hand...well...

[uneven palm]

Like is your concern Vow of Time or are you trying to speedrun it? Getting out of a region with 2m on the clock to spare seems a-ok

[upper rapids]

if i get hit once by poison my mental goes out the window and i start getting hit by everything

[uneven palm]

lol same, I lose all chill

[upper rapids]

again thats excluding poly so its not gtting out of a region really
im just wondering if my build does good enough dmg early on , on average
so , testing my build making skills

speedruns are not a thing for me at all yet lmao im cheeks

[tall notch]

I'd unironically take timer 2 hordes 3 over timer 3 hordes 0, the community is too focused on speed and hates hordes way too much

[indigo viper]

I mean, I beated the game under 20 mins. But not regulary.
Maybe really I'll try with timer, my latest runs wasn't as slow as I remembered. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/966770989121822724/1408924884301779116/obraz.png?ex=68ab830c&is=68aa318c&hm=ed0be541569199876bd8d3f38f0b943e3f6dcb6750273607888b4fd708c0d637&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1240&height=698
I just worried a little bit, I never consider myself a pro/speedrun player.

[upper rapids]

what joy is there in fighting many boring enemies rather than blitzing through to the fun bosses tho

i know i aske dbefore but howd u upload the pic, doesnt the channel have restrictions

[digital juniper]

all i have to defend myself is brain sees funny timer brain goes brrrr

[uneven palm]

Yeah I'd say you're clocking fine. Ephyra's really variable too depending on layout and side rooms

[tall notch]

Your times are significantly below 20 mins, you'd probably handle timer 2-3 with ease

[digital juniper]

you upload them to another server/dm and then copy and paste it here

[upper rapids]

understandable

[digital juniper]

i have an empty server i use for testing random stuff so i just chuck them there

[tall notch]

Also that's a nice obraz.png, Elyssia

[upper rapids]

i gotta share my runs so i can show the world how bad i am lmao

obraz means cheek in romanian btw\

[digital juniper]

trust me there’s always someone worse than you(me)

[upper rapids]

youll have to wait and see after this run

[digital juniper]

i’m pretty sure i am currently objectively worse than you due to lack of playtime, im on <60 total runs

[civic ocean]

Time is more about making decisions to manage the timer as opposed to "playing fast", IMO

[tall notch]

In polish it's image

[indigo viper]

Nice to meet a fellow polish person here.
I use pl language ingame too, just switch to eng to better know which vows is it grit and warden. xD
Stupid things I never remember.

[digital juniper]

are the names much different in Polish? from what i’ve seen from another person using another language in game and typing them out here, they were close enough that i understood the vow’s names

[tall notch]

Grit is extra health and wardens is whst the game calla minibosses

[tall notch]

I've never played in polish to be honest with you lol

[digital juniper]

yeah Ellysia mentioned they play with Polish in game so I was looking for what they have to say

[indigo viper]

Not really, just my brain sometimes works in weird way and I can't remember/associate simply things.
Sometime I just can't remember how some names sound in diffrent languages.

[upper rapids]

lets see if this works

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1404551136425414878/1408927208654901359/2020D41.JPG?ex=68ab8537&is=68aa33b7&hm=f1555504d43d6bcb3e08280cb0c6a1e62dd9f8bd9c55627fd3e9d5e6237a8e4f

behold, cheekage

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1404551136425414878/1408927605444444261/2053051.JPG?ex=68ab8595&is=68aa3415&hm=0f22783ade1a8754a298eea22c0002daa69e19ae1c892d4ed886c60a815f2c1c
nergal hater #1 btw

[digital juniper]

you have 23 total clears here but have already beat 32,35 and 37f?

you’re underestimating yourself wayyy too much

[upper rapids]

honestly for how much hate the coat used to get , it was what got me my first win from what i recall

[digital juniper]

33 with the second screenshot, but point still stands

[upper rapids]

and it felt the most intuitive out of all the weapons so maybe i should revisit the coats

[tall notch]

That hate was never justified, remember when i posted a nyx 58 in the middle of all the coat hate

[digital juniper]

unless you’re on like 80% god mode, you’re severely underestimating your skill level

[tall notch]

https://youtu.be/X8EbzKUJ6bk wow this vid did so well

[indigo viper]

+1. That impressive. Have they even unlock all arcana and/or weps?

[upper rapids]

i dont do godmode
but my builds used to be so bad for my first few dozen hours of the game because i didnt watch any content
and im still slow at tracking action on the screen whenever theres 5 different colored effects and frenzy 2

all weps maxxed

[digital juniper]

yet you cleared 37f surface and multiple 32f+

you’re very much so above the average player

[upper rapids]

do you have some nyx vids for surface, id wanna add those to a playlist and watch later

[tall notch]

Probably only like 10% ofp layers do anythinf over 32

[tall notch]

No, i don't play high fear surface, sorry 😞

[upper rapids]

oh shucks

[digital juniper]

yeah unlocking all definitely comes at an earlier stage. i have most arcana maxed and i have a total of 12 clears between chronos and Typhon in ~60 runs

no hidden aspects yet though

[tall notch]

But i did all coat aspects uw some months ago

[upper rapids]

might still watch just to see the builds and attack sequences

[indigo viper]

Dude, it doesn't matter. My first runs were bad too. You did amazing job.

[tall notch]

Go for it! I kinda play all coats similarly

[digital juniper]

and i thought i was above average for getting my first chronos clear in 23 runs

[upper rapids]

also mind you most runs were before rivals, maybe even a considerable amt of wins when eris was final boss of surface
anyway, always room to improve

[tall notch]

Oh i don't think Eris era runs show up in surface stats

[upper rapids]

i dont know the name of the two shades but theres one for stats and one that shows all runs and their boons keepsakes etc

the one with runs detailing their boons has everything, even chaos
the stats one idk

[tall notch]

If the stat one did, 28f wouldn't be my highest surface

Or 26, something below 30 anyway

I definitely did a Pan 32 surface and stat shade doesn't show it

[upper rapids]

hmmm

good info to have

[tall notch]

So yes those stats are your surface with Typhon

[upper rapids]

might check the wiki too but with your info its kinda clear thats how it work

[tall notch]

I don't know how accurate the wiki is, may be outdated

[upper rapids]

truee

[digital juniper]

Behold, new player trying to fix his skill issue

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/399645435003797516/1408931325318139924/image.png?ex=68ab890c&is=68aa378c&hm=8e6bd359475bc8e5752b58b92708a2e5d7ad8b6e1d2fdc00ed6a398c09d32488&

[upper rapids]

or maybe the incantations mention it

[digital juniper]

@ gio to make you feel a bit better

[upper rapids]

witchs staff can be rough without upgrades, how many u got on it

also honestly medea having a 50%ish winrate is good since some people just miss the dashes or go too aggro and eat damage

dunno about axe tho, dont enjoy the axe apart from charon( see nergal run )

[digital juniper]

none, so far i've been kinda liking Circe so upgrading that instead of mel staff

than and medea are my current favourites. all those axe runs were before i unlocked aspects, where i just used it because it was my favourite out of the mel aspects

[upper rapids]

yea circe should perform way better , in general so that includes wo upgrades

[digital juniper]

i'm quite comfortable with medea for UW, hence that 14 min clear since i wanted to see how fast i can go. I still suck at surface

pretty sure i have a 30% win rate against Typhon at this point

[upper rapids]

whats the hardest part of typhon

[digital juniper]

honestly its just general skill issue. some clears i got him with only losing 1 DD and the others i feel like i'm hopeless. a lot of it plays with losing too much health/DDs at summit.

i lost 2 DDs against spawn and stupidly ate all his headsmashes (than axe)

[upper rapids]

spawn is also one my worse minibosses only recently did i start dodging a bit better

and that still can go out the window with shadow servant if the attack patterns line up terribly

[digital juniper]

i just need more overall surface practice

for UW i can get to chronos semi-unscathed most of the time

[upper rapids]

understandable yea

[digital juniper]

im not stressing too much about it though. I understand im new to the game and have a long way to go. experience from H1 helped but i wasnt the best there either.

[tall notch]

My win rate is not even funny anymore because of the experimental runs that don't work out or high fear grind

[indigo viper]

Mine was in 20. But my run lasted 55 mins. XD And was carried by pre-nerf Zeus' dash + aphro

[digital juniper]

I'm honestly happy with my progress. cleared chronos on night 23 and Typhon on night 35

24 for Chronos and 25 for Typhon

[digital juniper]

55 minutes of actual playing time? no AFK or anything?

[indigo viper]

55 minutes of clear time at victory screen.
Let me find my screenshot obraz.png. XD

[digital juniper]

yeah i mean were you playing for 55 minutes or maybe you stopped and got away from the computer?

[tall notch]

My first clear was 40 mins-ish

[upper rapids]

a lot of it is also consistency
i do have about 160 hours for hades 2 but mostly when the game "launched" , then big breaks, then the biggest break with college from being on campus

[tall notch]

Very questionable old circe staff build

[digital juniper]

I honestly applaud you both, i cannot play safe and slow for the life of me

[upper rapids]

same

ill have to check my first clear after the current run im curious

[indigo viper]

Playing. Irl I paused game a lot, to simply resting my hands. XD
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/966770989121822724/1408936704727056446/obraz.png?ex=68ab8e0f&is=68aa3c8f&hm=e01e90db903677a822ec751cf627f2bc5bdee729debb91cc0de746390f8b902a

[digital juniper]

11 minute difference between my first and fastest clear so far. goal is to get a sub 10 and slowly wittle my way down through the minutes

[tall notch]

It's more like I can't play fast

[digital juniper]

yeah just different playstyles for sure. My brain is on "ooga booga attack enemy get damage" all the time

only followed by "return to shadow, now!"

[tall notch]

I'll sometimes just run away from enemies for a while and wait for an obvious opening before i strike again

[indigo viper]

That my mentality with moros or medea.
With Supay I love just simply "dash everywhere and see how everrything else dying" xD

[digital juniper]

Yeah but Supay is practically made to be played like that, right?

[indigo viper]

Supay is amazing but fairy very op. You don't even need a press a buttons anymore.

[upper rapids]

still ate 2 hits to spawn

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1404551136425414878/1408939913520615574/20D3891.JPG?ex=68ab910c&is=68aa3f8c&hm=2aabeee23f10d463ff6c60e4d9c16428796ca5873b6f0544c2c50ec01a9bc689
followed by 28 and 20

apparently coat was not my first aspect, huh

[indigo viper]

#h2-victory-boasting message
Okay, maybe I can do fast runs too.
Might be faster if Chronos didn't cast his 2nd insta kill move with clock. Or if I use fig on 3rd biome instead of 4th

[upper rapids]

hell yea

fig 3rd or 4th is .. odd to say the least

[uneven palm]

Yeah haha I think you’ll be fine

[rich belfry]

what should i build with morrigan ? Apollo on attack and what else ?

[stray pivot]

Heph on special

Bottom text

Morrigan has a really nice start damage with the triad
Start with heph special and build him

[digital juniper]

told you you're definitely fine 🤝

[indigo viper]

Now, with timer and 32 fear + rivals i have problem that i take too much dmg. xD

[upper rapids]

it do be like that

[wintry grove]

It do

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1408963171456385124/E5436D81FA9ED4A.mp4 attack autolock is so badd

[upper rapids]

"hes right behind me isnt he"

[glass bone]

Hey folks. I’m back

62 Circe is done!

By me anyway

[upper rapids]

beeeeg

training arc paid off

[glass bone]

Thing is, every single time I played Circe to a new height, I switched casts

Anvil beginner -> Tidal (40) -> Storm (50) -> Smolder (62)

I will admit though, I did rely on a lot of luck

More specifically, I got a Chaos boon that gave me 10 health per room. That (along with Smolder + Arctic Gale) was what pushed the run to the finish line.

But as I have said before whenever I got my 50 done. A win is a win

I truly am a Circe Staff Enjoyer. Cause that was great

[upper rapids]

arctic gale on its own or aq'd?

[glass bone]

Not even AQ. The real benefit was the chill effect and the slow, not the huge damage.

[uneven palm]

Well done. Smolder Ring is cracked (and bugged yay)

[glass bone]

Bugged? How? Because of Medea?

[upper rapids]

when people ask u what ur job is, say ure CSE
theyll think comp sci engineering but little do they know

[glass bone]

Why not both?

[upper rapids]

fair

[glass bone]

Now I think I’m stopping here with Circe, for now. Surface’s 50 was a nightmare, and I’ve only done it once with Circe. Maybe, if I have a whole lot of free time, I’ll take the chance to learn that too

My next idea instead is all aspects 50 fear Underworld, and then seeing what I can then push.

[upper rapids]

whats the fear for surface 50 u did

[glass bone]

The same one I did for Underworld. What was not included was Pain 3, Scars 3, Onion, Grit 2/3, and Hordes.

[upper rapids]

void ?

[glass bone]

Oh, no. I forgot about Void

Or blocked it out of my memory for a brief moment.

[upper rapids]

huh
just squeezed out a 45 on surface w soup aspect so was wondering what to go for next
i guess grit 1 or scars 2

is the starting boon u get w/o onion a bit deal for underworld or for circe/

as in what made u tick that off

[uneven palm]

The scorch applied per tick of the cast is boosted by global damage modifiers, when it shouldn’t be

On any aspect, not just Medea’s bug

[glass bone]

Oh….

[upper rapids]

i thought that was how scorch worked

[glass bone]

No wonder why it felt better than Storm. I just thought to pick Smolder, because it could better get Origination.

[uneven palm]

Nope, scorch applies the number on the boon. Or should. Global damage boosts increase the damage per tick as it ticks down

[glass bone]

I will say though, even with Smolder Ring, I nearly timed out at the end…. 20:40.12

[uneven palm]

I’m not telling you this to diminish your achievement in any way mind you. But yeah it’s bugged in our favor right now

[glass bone]

Cool.

I mean bugs have been used before for high accomplishments in Hades 2. And I don’t really care.

[uneven palm]

Yeah don’t lose sleep over it haha

[upper rapids]

are those the + boosts or % boosts

[glass bone]

So yippee! Thanks to Smolder Ring, I got the highest* fear done.

*that’s not super rng dependent and also awful to play through. No offense 67 runners, it just does not seem pleasant.

[uneven palm]

I’m talking relevant global/olympian damage boosts. If you apply 100 scorch with no damage boosts, in 1 second it’ll drop to zero and do 100 damage.

If in that same scenario you also have +100% global (say from Arcana) it’ll do 200 damage as it ticks down

[ocean ibex]

is that what's happening

[glass bone]

Anyway. To answer your question, Yes and No. Circe (and Staves as a whole, but specifically Circe and probably Anubis), is one of the few aspects / weapon types that can manage the first few rooms well enough without a boon. But in the long run, the more rooms you clear without a strong boon, the worse Hecate / Timer will get. And also often times you’ll get a common for the boon you desire, making things that much harder.

[uneven palm]

Yeah that’s how Scorch works. You apply the number on the boon, but under the covers as it ticks down the damage actually applied can be higher than the amount of Scorch you applied

[upper rapids]

thats.. how it should work right? whats cast doing thats wrong

[glass bone]

I guess the thing that is wrong is that Cast is the only scorch boon that works with that global boost.

At-least I think that’s what unexplainedbacn meant.

[uneven palm]

What’s bugged with Smolder is the amount of Scorch applied per cast tick is also boosted by global damage modifiers (this does not happen with other Scorch boons). If you have 100% global and the boon says it’ll apply 50 scorch per tick, it applies 100.

[glass bone]

Oh… so Smolder Ring gets 2 boosts?

[uneven palm]

So you kinda double dip on global damage boosts

[glass bone]

Woah…

[upper rapids]

gotcha

[uneven palm]

You get more scorch per cast tick (unintended, or at least doesn’t happen with other scorch sources) and you get global damage as the applied scorch ticks down (intended)

[ocean ibex]

??????????????? why would they ever do this

[uneven palm]

So Scorch can benefit from global damage boosts somehow

[upper rapids]

yalll think its a bit too much that heph blasts trigger on hecate clones?

[uneven palm]

It ticks down 100/s. If the damage actually applied didn’t go up with global damage increases, well, it’d never go up. So like Origination or Furies would be pointless with Scorch

[glass bone]

I feel like Hecate clones need to have some things not trigger on them. Like why does Toula get fooled by the clones?

She doesn’t go after the Fanged enemies with the barrier I think. Yet she goes after the clones.

**not certain if the others do that though, I presume the answer is Yes.

[uneven palm]

They must’ve changed that because back in the day the pets or like Eos Daybreaker weren’t fooled

[upper rapids]

charybdis feature as ive 9 hp were cooked bois

[glass bone]

Hey now, maybe you’ll be the one cooking them

[uneven palm]

It’s not different from other global damage. If blitz says 200 on the boon, but I’ve got 100% global it does 400 damage when it pops. With scorch you just don’t see the damage being applied as bigger numbers popping up

[upper rapids]

Return to shadow, now!

[ocean ibex]

looking at scorch you see the number going down and you assume that that's also the damage

[uneven palm]

It’s the accrued scorch going down. Without any global damage boosts, it’s also the damage. With global damage boosts, it’s doing more.

[glass bone]

So how did ya do?

[upper rapids]

i got hit by something and died lmao

[glass bone]

Oh. Well there’s always next time

[ocean ibex]

man scorch is a lot better than i thought lol

[glass bone]

Side note, I know this isn’t ‘build and combat’, but I recently had an idea for an “Extremist Measures” mod where all the rival fights are tuned up. No idea if anyone would want to make such a thing, but the idea I had for Sirens was to make all of them featured in Phase 2.

That way we can play Touhou in our Greek dating simulator Hades 2.

[upper rapids]

i dont even notice the sirens features so

just change the projectile colors from all purple as someone mentioned here and honestly might not be too bad

[uneven palm]

Throw in Pyro Technique for a rare multiplicative damage-over-time increase. Scorch in very early access was actual junk, but with the recent patches it's top tier

And the pom scaling on Pyro Technique is IMO actually insane. 50% at common, another 50% for 1 Pom. A multiplicative 100% damage increase from a level 2 common boon yes please.

[upper rapids]

quick shoutout to thessaly for wasting my keepsake and not givingme zeus

[uneven palm]

boats bad

[upper rapids]

baddest of boats

[stray pivot]

You fight Prometheus, Heracles, Asterius and other guy!

[upper rapids]

and they get a call

[stray pivot]

Also you fight Typhon And Echidna
And Chronos with a health bar!

[upper rapids]

asterius, the monster, calls down typhon father of all monsters
and prom calls down chronos
heracles gets poison on his beyblade and casts miasma around himself too
theseus or whatever his name was just calls on athena to give him 3 death defiances with increased potency

as the fight ends, mel proclaims
" we got them homer "

[glass bone]

And just because I can, just completed Nyx 51 (when I had never played the aspect till today).

I am a lunatic, probably.

[upper rapids]

me over here dying at least 5 times on nyx with just 47fear

beeg win tho

[glass bone]

To be fair, it took me about 5 tries.

I started the tries an hour ago, got to and failed at Sirens, then took a few more attempts before I got a start with Cardio Gain + Scorch Special

[pastel obsidian]

Hey people, lost 4 (!) DDs and the run to Unrivaled Cerb and wanted to get more advice. Are the fireballs random and what triggers them? This time I did not have any DoT. They seem rough to dodge consistently with their jagged edges. And when is a good time to go in for damage?

[upper rapids]

scorch special? curious
im trying scorch or poseidon attack and blitz special

[glass bone]

You just spam regular rockets.

[willow phoenix]

The fireball is a parry mechanic, if your attack got blocked by cerb he will shoot fireballs

[glass bone]

And rocket scorch go burn.

[willow phoenix]

The one where he's holding his hands up to block

[pastel obsidian]

Can Toula proc the parry? And if so... how do you survive?

[glass bone]

Well it depends on which one you’re talking about. Either it’s the parry, or it’s the set of two with a dash in the middle of the sequence. The former you need to avoid damaging him with Attacks / Specials, the latter you need to either run fast or stick really close to Cerb.

[willow phoenix]

I don't know about Toula but generally you can just run to his back or dash to his back. His back is safe to attack in during all that

[glass bone]

Now I could be wrong, but I believe the answer is No.

I’ve used Toula for all my 50+ runs, and I haven’t noticed Toula triggering the counter attack

[pastel obsidian]

That's a relief. You're just supposed to try and be behind Cerb as much as possible then? So much for baby strats....

[glass bone]

If anything, you want to invert them. Special shoots out more attacks per attack. And Attack is less safe imo.

[willow phoenix]

Being behind cerb is the safest spot but unrivaled cerberus also has a move to punish this with his back swipe

[glass bone]

Though again, I just did only 1 clear with Nyx, and saw that other people used Scorch special (from what I recall)

[upper rapids]

worth a shot, good info

[glass bone]

Also, Cardio Gain is best gain for Nyx (imo)

Mainly because I think the divided rockets trigger Cardio Gain.

But if you want to be certain, ask Coldshade.

[upper rapids]

oh yea cardio loks good but i often forsake it with the vow cuz i go for pyro or scorch attack or thermal or whatever else
so ive been trying to make do w glamour gain and now flood gain

[glass bone]

Fair. I mean I had Denial and went for both. What I ended up doing in my run is starting with Cardio Gain, then finding a second Hestia boon to rarify Special

**though this was without Onion.

[upper rapids]

i wil try special scorch now cuz the damage has been awful so far

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1409004971143204905/clip_1756003271224.mp4 pain

[glass bone]

So it is possible.

Also, that sucks… are you going to go for it again seeded? Or a different seed?

[spiral wadi]

i always go unseeded

i like going into a run and letting it take me wherever

i think im gonna upload the rivals clips at least cuz those were juicyyyy, had 3dds that didn't get refilled by cerb

[ocean ibex]

is the leash good on circe

[spiral wadi]

leash tends to get top 3 on damage dealt so ye

i don't pay too much attention to it but u can def do some funny leash strats, esp in 1st region

[ocean ibex]

are “you” trying to get the damage out of it or is it just happening

[spiral wadi]

by region 2 i'm just letting it do whatever

cuz ideally u'd have enough of a build to not have to worry about leash

[ocean ibex]

2. why is high fear usually done in the underworld?

[spiral wadi]

so i don't have to deal with prom and typhon uw tends to be easier compared to surface

uw's first 2 regions are hardest, surface first 2 regions are easiest, so with uw i'm like "yea if i get past scylla i'll prob have a decent run"

[upper rapids]

uw also throws dds at you a lot
nemesis, echo

and Hades boons can be a huge timesaver with especially deep dissent

[spiral wadi]

on the same side tho surface gets u a really solid build the first region so ur kinda set for the rest of the run, it's just that u have to be mega conscious of prom and typhon

[upper rapids]

whereas i find surface helpers to be kinda lacking
dionysus is a joke

[spiral wadi]

cerb and chronos are still hell but at least they're more predictable/reactable relatively to surface

[upper rapids]

also doesnt uw have more skips too?

[spiral wadi]

in erebus technically yes but ur kinda fighting for time anyway LOL

[upper rapids]

or well at least it has chaos

[spiral wadi]

like u have to get like 2 or 3 skip rooms, sometimes even more, or else ur kinda screwed no matter what

[upper rapids]

yup

[spiral wadi]

i can't say for other aspects but at least on circe, surface u tend to get past thessaly by minute 7

and it's pretty stable cuz ur not getting rampant 3-wavers

[upper rapids]

yeah thats reasonable w good builds and good eris patterns

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1409008875780178021/5097EB9F74F441FC.mp4 what if you wanted to dodge, but god said: wall

i want to use ospec but god is it painfully long to charge and unsafe LOL

[upper rapids]

its pretty odd what u can dash through and not, and at what angle

[spiral wadi]

mhm, like it's not even a hard attack to dodge, i just always did it bottom-to-up so i never did it in the opposite direction, only to discover wall

[median anvil]

me personally it's because UR eris and prometheus are too time consuming and constantly dying to vow of timer isn't fun

[upper rapids]

while i do sometimes run into timer issues with prom, its usually the build thats the issue

[spiral wadi]

ye i find it's usually the build that gets the time cuts, i rarely run fig leaf unless i'm like really stressin for time

[upper rapids]

For example when i was doing a lot of Hel runs i mostly didnt get a good enough build nor was i going into valk enough so the dmg lacked and that prolonged fights
Surface by itself doesnt waste your time too much ( cough eris cough )

[spiral wadi]

i want to say eris isn't too bad she's just very reliant on instant burst damage

if u don't have that then she starts becoming an ass

[upper rapids]

True

[junior trail]

incandescent aura is unexpectedly good with cardio/hera anubis whattt

[past salmon]

because surface is kinda lame (imo)

the first half is jokes and then Prom fight is like cool and then Typhon fight is like whatever apart from 1 phase which feels like degenerate gambling

[spiral wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/gamblecore-stickman-casino-gamble-gif-7118676210396292522

[civic ocean]

I think this is just because high fear only really has like a handful of active players and we all like underworld rn

[tall notch]

Speaking for myself i played since patch 1 (surface ended at Eris, UW was complete) and it's just the first path i learned

So by the time we got complete surface i already learned uw really well and at surface I'd have to climb my way up again

[glass bone]

Quick question; if I don’t have enough magic to perform an Omega Move, does that trigger Huntress? (Currently at 9/9 for Mel Axe, and I’m not certain if I need to up it or if I can go to 0/0)

[glass shell]

no.

you must be below your current cap, even at 0/0 fully primed you are max mana

so you'd need to be 0-8/9 to activate huntress

[tall notch]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-rabbit-jumpscare-boop-yassinora-gif-10416955202653838545

[glass bone]

Hmmm… not good. I did lose that run right after to rival sirens. Dropped it to the lowest fear I’ve done in a while (39). Feel less certain I could bring Mel Axe to 62, let alone 50 personally

[tall notch]

Mel axe can be quite hammer dependent

[glass bone]

I know about the Dashing Heave. Is there any other that works well enough without Dashing Heave?

[glass shell]

i mean psychic whirlwind is goated on any axe for a reason

[tall notch]

Psychic like pronto said and me personally I'm a fan of rapid, I'd take it over dashing heave

Than axe attack combo speed with mel axe's strength is pretty good

[vague eagle]

Curious which magicka recharge boon people think is the best

[glass shell]

its born gain

born gain is 2nd 3rd and 4th place too. this isn't a debate

the answer if you need magick is always born gain until you get into extremely edgecase gameplay scenarios of like 60 magick torch attacks or something where you will prime out too fast.

[spiral wadi]

me playing torch at super low magick in 62f anyway

[glass bone]

Cardio Gain also is strong on quite a few weapons.

I’ve used Cardio on Anubis, Mel Torches, Eos, Hel, and Nyx, all to 40+ Fear

[spiral wadi]

flood gain is fun cuz most of the time u don't think about it too much and it does its thing

[glass shell]

yeah those aren't bad, but born gain is just "better" and in the question of best well... its gonna be bg.

[spiral wadi]

esp how i play mel torch, i don't use ospec often so it works out w flood

[past salmon]

Hey born gain does approximately nothing on 67F in 99% of cases

[glass shell]

i think i'd file 67f under edge case gameplay scenario

[spiral wadi]

flood meta in 67f let's go

[olive sphinx]

Ionic gain?? anyone??

[spiral wadi]

i wonder if u need hecate keepsake start for magick based weapons in 67?

[past salmon]

Idk I think I prefer just running Hecuba maybe so it's less RNG hell

[olive sphinx]

Hecuba is so good!!

[past salmon]

I'll take the downside of Hecuba start being way harder gameplay wise in favour of resetting less

[quasi mica]

born gain is the best one unless your magic bar is getting primed hard by other stuff like vow of hubris + prime boons. flood gain and tranquil gain are also very brain off regens where you don't really need to think about it

[glass shell]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-fish-spongebob-fishes-spongebob-staring-spongebob-crowd-gif-21857280

[spiral wadi]

fair

[glass shell]

if they make hecuba stun work on bosses i think i'll like her

until then extra magick is just so hard to justify but i've come around now that some weapons REALLY want that extra magick start

shiva alone makes me want to use hecuba which is more than i can say from the past few patches

[spiral wadi]

i hate ionic gain what do u mean i have to find a random spot on the map, press a button to interact with it, then go back to whatever i was doing

[olive sphinx]

ok ok what about tranquil gain then?

[past salmon]

Grisly gain underrated frfr

[spiral wadi]

big fan tranquil

[olive sphinx]

nice same!

[past salmon]

Tranquil gain is like actually understated tho
Good gain

[olive sphinx]

omg foolish agrees with me

[glass shell]

thats because it didnt have any like massive visibility changes and it just slowly got crept to being takable as long as its like rare or higher i think now

[past salmon]

I'm retracting my statement tranquil gain SUCKS

[spiral wadi]

apollo gain is also straightforward tho it feels like it does need either winner's circle or his expanding cast

[glass shell]

i think if tg launched at EA like it is now it'd have a better rep

[past salmon]

TG can be taken common cuz it has dumb af pom scaling

[spiral wadi]

yea pom common is so ridiculous, 50% to 100% is funny af

[past salmon]

Same as Pyro scaling
It's so funny

[spiral wadi]

i know im not feedbacking that cuz i want it to stay that way,,

[tall notch]

I find it hard to actually make myself click it when I could do better than tranquil for most builds and certain fights (looking at u rivals Scylla) don't let you stand still very often

[spiral wadi]

yeaa pyro scaling is hilarious, i think it was esp how they buffed scorch from 80 to 100, then left pyro alone LOL

[quasi mica]

i think even if tranquil gain was like this from the start a lot of players still wouldn't like it because they think you can't stand still for half a second

[tall notch]

One of my patch 1 Eos clears used tranquil

[glass shell]

yeah but like the difference between not liking the application and the boon being ass is the difference between release TG and current ionic gain

ionic gain is a good gain in theory, just i don't want to disengage the fight to go pick up an orb

serviceable, if not optimal

EA tg is just i want to die

[tall notch]

I'd like ionic if you didn't have to click it

And just had to run over the orb

[glass shell]

i'd like ionic if it did literally anything else alongside restoring the mana

[olive sphinx]

or have to hit it maybe!

[glass shell]

like if it did an AOE stun pulse or something to enemies around the orb

or lightning damage something so its not just a worse gain

[tall notch]

I think we have enough "I want this but not as a gain" boons

[glass shell]

yeah but you still take it for the gain, it just has a secondary effect

plus unreliable due to rng spawn.

hell you could make it on pickup deal aoe damage if you had to

so its not just a passive turret

[tall notch]

Make the orb do something other than regen, i still won't click it for magick but i would use the secondary effect

[spiral wadi]

i think ionic could just be "be near this ball for a set period of time and get ur mana back"

[tall notch]

Especially since lots of Zeus builds already don't use a whole lot of magick

It needs to be better as a gain, not gain functionality

[upper rapids]

Id like lucid gain more if it either gave a slight bit of magick on dropping the cast or regenerated a bit whilst inside it , on top of its current effect

Apart from charon maybe circe, builds dont wait inside the cast for its long ahh duration
And it sucks not even getting full Magick bar after wasting all that time and possibly missing it by dodging at the wrong time/place

[glass shell]

that kinda sounds... worse

am i misinterpreting this

[spiral wadi]

it's literally tranquil gain but u don't have to stand still

[upper rapids]

Like it doesnt have a secondary effect
It takes so long
It doesnt refill a full magick bar
Its binary, either u get it or no

Kinda eh

[glass shell]

its tranquil gain but you need to stand in this completely random spot the game decided

[quasi mica]

if the cast had a way to tell when it's about to expire it'd be a lot better

[spiral wadi]

just find ball and u can do whatever as long as ur near the ball

[tall notch]

No wait actually it would just be a weird lucid gain

[glass shell]

so apollo gain + demeter but the worst of both worlds

[spiral wadi]

and u don't have to wait eons for ur cast to expire

[glass shell]

at best net neutral apollo gain cause its where you wanted to be

at worst its in narnia and you have to run away to get your mana

[tall notch]

I guess it depends on how long they'd make you be there for and what's the radius

Ionic would probably be fine if you just had to move through or hit it

[upper rapids]

Do you enjoy the fog from dio is the question
Cuz its basically that

[tall notch]

I actually want a pinata gain let's go

[spiral wadi]

i mean fog isn't doing anything anyway so i don't think about it

[upper rapids]

Fair

[upper rapids]

Thoughts

[spiral wadi]

ionic gain becoming a super big storm cloud where u get magick while inside it sounds fun tho

[glass shell]

i mean its quite literally what original lucid gain was and sucked ass

[tall notch]

I still kind of feel like that competes with Apollo gain

[spiral wadi]

finicky but funny

i mean competing is fine look at grisly gain it sucks ass

[upper rapids]

Didnt original lucid only have the regen whilst inside it ?

[glass shell]

ah i misread. so you want regen inside and the bulk gain? idk it wouldn't hurt but it also doesn't really move the bar.

plus it steps on glamours toes at that point since its literally just better glamour

minus the weak i guess which is a big thing

[quasi mica]

i mean in lucid gain's favor every run has hermes and you can always roll hard for winner's circle I guess which turns it into a really cheap gain

[upper rapids]

True about glamour

[tall notch]

Yeah that just needs numbers boosts and it'd be fine, it's not fundamentally poorly designed

[upper rapids]

Rolling hermes and hoping for good lucid rarity just to get a refill thats, again
Time based
Binary
Not a full bar

Is mid to me

[tall notch]

Grisly is actually really close to being good for torches. They can't take glamour because you don't regen magick while channeling attack

[spiral wadi]

it's just comparatively to cardio gain, u get a stable like 5 mana per every atk/special, meanwhile ur fighting for rng for plasma to come out

[glass shell]

i think it needs more than numbers but you aren't wrong if each plasma gave like 100 mana it'd be fine so i guess theoretically there is a number where it works

[spiral wadi]

but yea grisly is p good on torches, just need to upgrade it a bit

[quasi mica]

never said it's good, just said it becomes pretty cheap then

[tall notch]

Yes but plasma does more than throwing magick at you. The movement and strike speed does matter

[glass shell]

just make auto collect basekit bro 😔

[upper rapids]

Gotcha

[spiral wadi]

i'm 99% sure plasma does not affect torches lol, ig movement speed

cuz some weapons literally can't benefit from hermes faster atk/spec or from metallic droplet so it doesn't seem like plasma can either

[tall notch]

Does it not affect omega channel speed? Ik droplet does

Also yeah movement speed while channeling reg attack is actually nice

[spiral wadi]

there's another omega boon for hermes

[glass shell]

it used to, i loved blood drops with old circe

[tall notch]

Ew old circe

[glass shell]

spammed the HELL out of omega attack instantly with blood drops

went from a like 1 sec channel to .01

[upper rapids]

Btw coldshade i heard from someone yesterday that nyx benefits from onhit effects on special moreso than attack

If you go say scorch on special, what do you choose for attack ? Another curse applier i guess ?

I kept going scorch/waves on attack and a helper curse on special since specials miss so much , also launcher frame is free value

But damage didnt feel great even with pyro or arterial spray

[spiral wadi]

prob blitz

[upper rapids]

So you'd fire specials from afar to kickstart the scorch then go in with attack blitz so it can proc
Hmm

[spiral wadi]

prob

then pyro thermal i imagine

for normal mel coat i like shimmering special hitch lmao

[upper rapids]

I wonder which performs better for room clear with shimmering
Static shock or hitch

Or i guess noones saying u cant have both

[spiral wadi]

lol yea with mel torch i find myself getting hitch then static shock if i don't get blitz

[upper rapids]

Do you ever run the fine line mel build at high fear or nah
Cuz thats the one that i found fun

[spiral wadi]

nah magick too costly

prob better on like moros where u have to invest into magick anyway

[upper rapids]

Tbf i did not have hubris so i could spam oattack with sudden burst racing thoughts

[spiral wadi]

yea iirc fine line was like the definitive way to play torches so i can see why that getting gutted kinda killed the torch for a lot of ppl

it's like i want to but alsooo,,,

[upper rapids]

Didnt get to play prime fine line torches but still fun

[spiral wadi]

hidden helix is like mega busted LOL

[upper rapids]

Just really needs sudden burst

Thats the +1 special orb right?

[spiral wadi]

ye, x2 effectiveness on normal spec and x1.5 effectiveness on ospec

[upper rapids]

For faster blitz proc or just in general better dps ?

Or rather
Its still busted without blitz ?

[spiral wadi]

https://imgur.com/4XHDKyS

mainly for dps yea, i like running hitch cuz it gives overall better room clear and is still able to hold its own

[upper rapids]

Oh you dont even attack
Just safer to dash through w specials

[spiral wadi]

ya, it has a blindspot tho so have to be mindful of it

mainly only an issue for tiny enemies like wailers

[upper rapids]

Prob sucks to have a fish dash through the orbs

[spiral wadi]

LOL yea prob

[hasty path]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1237919408286863463/1409200160323670159/205D5F1.JPG?ex=68ac836b&is=68ab31eb&hm=176f64900f1b62146a02ffba7c905c9dfb98d33a5a950d2ffaf91a17c9f67920&

And this is why I argue for curse status for poor Ares’s swords

Sure, wounds is his main kit, but this… god, it took me two tries to get it right.

Poseidon is basically forbidden here

[civic ocean]

Isnt that 275 thousand damage

Why do you need it to deal more damage

[hasty path]

It was honestly rather hard, of a run. I bought multiple death—

You know, it may also be a skill issue. It’s just that this build took time to take off.

Winner Circle probably coulda helped.

Although it’s hard to calculate the cast damage vs geyser spout VS DOUBLE CRIT RAKI.

It had LOADS of outside help is what I’m saying

For me, a “good” outcome is a build that has as few boons as possible

[tall notch]

oh sorry didn't see this, I try to take something that applies a curse on attack but if nothing good shows up I'll just play without an attack boon

Special definitely is the more important one out of the two

[upper rapids]

Interesting
I thought i was cooking with the arterial spray waves attack but maybe not

[tall notch]

I don't like waves on coat very much, ICD kicks in too hard

[upper rapids]

No way it also applies to the coat dawg

Unc poseidon is getting ruined

[uneven palm]

Pretty much just with specials on the coat, the 2 rockets can hit fast enough to hit the cooldown. Attacks are fine, and I still think it’s decent on special

[glass shell]

applies to the o-special, theoretically the reg spec if they both hit at the same time i guess

they fixed working on dash attack with one of the hotfixes post balance patch to make it .09 like everything else so it always splashes even with exhaust riser

still guts my o-special poseidon build though 😔

[glass bone]

Nearly got Mel Staff 51 first try. Then I timed out on P3 Chronos…

Probably because I missed Dual Moonshot, and also didn’t take Huntress and thought I’d be fine.

[last cape]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1266472665695260675/1409217009048354917/2025083.JPG?ex=68ac931c&is=68ab419c&hm=be7c517078080f8f61302b89531d99979a1aabde7ab250fcc7054c474b462b2b&

What do I take here? First boon is heat rush and I assume probably that, but these are all tempting boons rn

actually, does tidal ring continually reapply froth within it's area or is it only the splash damage that does it?

[upper rapids]

Id go flash fry for even better room clear on top of static shock
Fire speed of the morrigan is p good for scorch , is it ticking down too fast w pyro technique? If not then i dont see much worth in highly flammable
Heat rush is eh

[upper rapids]

The splash is what applies froth so it should be only once per cast

[last cape]

That's what the description on the boon says but I know better than to trust that

according to other people in the discord it's actually the ring

which seems to be correct

I picked heat rush since it should continuously proc froth and steam as a result, but flash fry still might have been the right choice, could go either way

[upper rapids]

Really? Thats odd

[junior trail]

vapor is pretty pog if you're able to get high hit rate with both froth/fire stuff, like torches o.spec/smolder ring or sth

wait does vapor stack btw

if not then ehh flash fry never disappoints

[upper rapids]

They already had vapor it overlayed the heat rush

[quasi mica]

it's the ring yeah, any enemies that wander into the cast will also have froth applied to them
You can see it happening to Jetty here at 14:00
https://youtu.be/AOb9R38WZ9g?si=QBoeE8p0wRoH-ha_

[upper rapids]

Thats so odd given how anything else applies froth

Slippery slope ties it to splashes
Tidal ring also describes it as being tied to a splash

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, more like a reverse solar ring

[quasi mica]

I'm guessing the incorrect wording might be a relic of the way froth (slip) used to be exclusively applied through the slippery slope boon

I'd give feedback about it, but I'm scared that this behavior is unintended and if SGG notices they'll fix it so only the wave applies froth

[vague eagle]

What’s the ideal Arcana loadout? I finally got full 30 grasp and considering loadouts

[elfin forge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349278289042346008/1390093577685700658/Screenshot_2025-07-02_at_3.15.27_PM.png?ex=68ac37c7&is=68aae647&hm=4780105ad69e668121ad7912c4b834aba9b07fcb788463e3c252e436234a8b78&
This one is kind of normal

people use death now a lot though

[glass shell]

for a general use its basically full left column+ reroll corner + persistence + wayward son + strength or death. Fill the remaining grasp however you want

should be like 8 grasp left or something

some weapons want night, some want huntress, some want origination, higher fear or safety players would want lovers, some people love artificer etc

general "never picks" are just excellence and unseen.

but make your own decision before we start up that whole discussion again

[upper rapids]

Swift messenger also kinda eh

[glass shell]

for 1 grasp i like running it

back when i used strength 24/7 i used full vert middle

[upper rapids]

Swift is for the column but messenger isnt noticeable

[uneven palm]

Swift Runner is also just nice. Move speed lets you avoid a lot of nonsense

[tall notch]

Doesn't it also set in on dash strikes?

[uneven palm]

How do you mean?

[glass bone]

Only thing I’d say is that Strength should not be put next to Eternity, and Death should be instead. Also, there is the small exception of Mel Axe where people trade Persistence for Huntress and maximum damage.

[glass shell]

oops your so right

i keep using the old name lmao

[glass bone]

It’s all good

[tall notch]

dash strikes on coat are multi-hit and I don't think you get a wave per hit on that either

this killed the dash-strike spam build with the funny hammer that buffs them and pos attack

[uneven palm]

Oh Poseidon cooldown. No dash-strikes are good again with the latest patch

[tall notch]

Oh good to know

[glass shell]

yeah you get 3/3 and 6/6 as of the balance patch

only thing that is cucked currently is pan and coat o-special

[uneven palm]

The worst victims now are blades everything and coat specials

[glass shell]

theoretically morrigan regular attack might be locked too?

[tall notch]

How are torches

[uneven palm]

Morrigan is bad. 1 or 2 waves instead of 3

Torches are fine

[glass shell]

should be fine? i don't see a scenario where you are hitting the same enemy with a splash twice within .09 seconds with the same attack/special

[glass shell]

i mean that sucks too, but at the same time idk who was clammoring to do morrigan posiedon attack 😭

on the other hand if it sucks why is it nerfed

[tall notch]

Special spins really fast doesn't it

[glass shell]

not that fast.

[tall notch]

And Supay fires its attack in bursts unless this got changed again and i lost the plot

[glass shell]

you need to hit basically at the exact same instance to get the ICD, hence why coat specials are screwed by the change

it does, but again, thats not hitting basically at the same instance.

1/10th of a second is VERY fast

[uneven palm]

I mean Hestia’s fine on Morrigan just feels like Johnny Supergiant has a blades vendetta with Poseidon

[glass shell]

hel was basically the test for if it works or not, and they changed the ICD to make it work after nerfing it to not

if you attack/special faster than hel, your probably ICD locked

[upper rapids]

Hear me out
Aspect of soup builds
Ares cast attack poseidon special, arterial spray
Get yourself a nice beetroot-red soup, maybe just a tad too watery

Hot pot, flash fry chaos egg, a nice fried egg soup, throw in some zeus chain lighting as great-value noodles

Last but not least, the famous water soup
Oops, all poseidon

Chuck in an onion for flavor if you wish

Am i allowed to cook again

[tall notch]

never cook again

[civic ocean]

What the hell did I just read

[upper rapids]

Soup

[uneven palm]

I do build recipes I’m taking notes

[upper rapids]

🍲

[olive sphinx]

you forgot to throw in a fig leaf from Dio and a ghost onion from dora

[upper rapids]

God(s) damn ✍️

Theres red lentils and citrus soup
Does that open up red citrine divination

[glass bone]

Hello. Am back to report I got another 50+ (51); Mel Staff

Turns out Huntress + Dual Moonshot + Shimmering Moonshot is reaaaaally strong.

I was doing like… 800 damage per special or more, and I phased P2 Chronos (albeit at 0 Grit)

[glass shell]

my brain forgot about huntress, maybe thats what im missing about making mel staff good

[glass bone]

It’s a second Origination essentially that you start off with for Mel Staff

At-least if you are doing Dash Attack + Special

What I’m not certain of yet is the perfect arcana, since I had to trade Lovers + Queen for Huntress + Messenger. That did hurt a bit in terms of my own HP, but I cleared Rival Chronos with just Pin as a death defiance, and got my fastest 50+ at 17 minutes.

Though tbh, Mel Staff would be one of the weapons that don’t really care about Duos, outside of the any-aspect duos (like Sun Worshipper), and Island Getaway; the latter of which only matters if you don’t have Dual Moonshot.

Next on my 50+ hunt will probably be either the last Staff I have left (Momus), or a weapon for which I haven’t yet cleared 50+ for (Axes, Blades, or Skulls, probably being Nergal / Charon without Wards, Morrigan / Artemis, or Hel / Medea)

[upper rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1404551136425414878/1409260385634091208/20250824223303_1.jpg?ex=68acbb82&is=68ab6a02&hm=ce118aeea654a6c7c46b504041bab792567f5137a063cdf05712cf250687dfcc

soup wouldve actually been cracked if i just had my dds or got echo refills but oh well, good first try

[upper rapids]

Charon can get so braindead w giga cleaver or exceptional talent so maybe go for that

Hel is fun but i had some trouble building it correctly and would time out

Morrigan is morrigan

[glass bone]

I mean I’m aiming for 50/51 with Rival Chronos most likely, so that’s why I’m uncertain which aspects of the weapons left will be best

[upper rapids]

Charon should be pretty safe up against grandpa

Just pray for channel speed

[glass bone]

What boons would that be again?

That one boon from Hermes I know of

[upper rapids]

Sorceress to boot
Racing thoughts
Sudden cleaver
Chaos i think
If youre cracked go for arachne dress
Also the items from well of charon

[gritty solstice]

Umbral Flames (Mel Aspect), can someone reccomend a build with this weapon?

[rotund totem]

I think selene coat needs a massive rework

[upper rapids]

@spiral wadi awaken my masters

[spiral wadi]

LOL i just beat 62f mel flame today, perfect timing

[glass bone]

Two ideas; Fine Line / Ocean Swell + Ripple Effect + Cardio Gain and spam Attacks, or Aphro / Hera Special + Hidden Helix, and spam Specials

The latter is better at the highest fear though iirc.

[upper rapids]

Summoned him like a stand

[spiral wadi]

hitch special for sure, if u get +1 special hammer (or faster special hammer) then u just spam special and win game

scorch cast, froth cast, freeze cast are solid support options

[glass bone]

And I presume running Huntress and Origination is recommended?

[spiral wadi]

since i assume ur not on like grit 3 or smth then blitz and scorch atk are p safe

yea i drop furies for huntress

[upper rapids]

Legit just wondering if i should drop furies for huntress on soup rn

[glass bone]

Not Lovers / Artificer + Queen -> Huntress + Messenger?

[spiral wadi]

i keep lovers over artificier

[upper rapids]

Its either huntress lovers or huntress furies messenger rn

[spiral wadi]

messenger doesn't work w/ default control scheme and i'm not about to learn an entirely new setup for flames

[olive sphinx]

huh, what do you mean by that?

[upper rapids]

Controller vs kbm?

[olive sphinx]

like, how does it not work? it just works by clicking the cast?