h2-builds-and-combat

[empty musk]

Bc then you end up with an aspect like Artemis where it's only fun with one hammer 🤷

[glass shell]

but i can also see how game warping it is when you DON'T do that so they are an outlier

[civic ocean]

“Every rare should be Corruption”

[brave dove]

arty has several great hammers what

[glass shell]

Hammers are per run limited and can't be rerolled, they should be run defining.

Its like sister pinion, nobody wants that trash or several other things its always "did i get the good hammers? oh well this is good enough and default good"

[brave dove]

trick knives is in its own tier - not just for knives but in general

[empty musk]

Sweeping Ambush and trick knives is basically it, everything else doesn't really help the aspect gimmick

[brave dove]

but arty can build around wicked onslaught, sureshot flurry and sweeping ambush very successfully

[civic ocean]

Surely 150% backstab damage is good with crit right

[brave dove]

skulking's good as well yep

just can't really build around it outside of trying to get trick knives

[civic ocean]

You don’t really build around trick knives either its just good

[brave dove]

you totally do

optimal trick knives builds flip the usual attack/special relationship on blades

so you go zeus attack and ares special, for example, rather than the other way around

[civic ocean]

Not really like everything that is good on trick knives is also good on the regular special

[empty musk]

Sureshot consumes all the crit charges, wicked onslaught 30 power's alright but it's not that much when most non armored/warded enemies should die to a crit omega

[median anvil]

wicked onslaught is +20

[brave dove]

you're smuggling a lot of assumptions in there, do you want to declare them or should I play customs agent?

[civic ocean]

This is the h2 gen builds channel assumptions are the name of the game here

[empty musk]

What does this even mean 💀

[brave dove]

it means you're packaging a lot of implicit assumptions into that statement

for example the idea that wicked onslaughts +power isn't very much when enemies die to a crit omega when like

if you don't have sweeping ambush oattack spam just isn't very good??

even assuming you crit in the first place (I guess you got an epic shadow pounce?)

you could do some shenanigans with weed killer sure but that's just not a great build in comparison to just doing normal specialweaving and using oattack as a combo mobility + damage tool if you got wicked onslaught instead of sweeping ambush

[brazen ore]

people are definitely not running aphrodite on non-trick-knives specials

[empty musk]

So that's literally not what I said at all 💀

I didn't say that Artemis isn't viable bc base daggers kit are viable in of themselves

I said it's lame that only one hammer helps the actual aspect gimmick (two if you count trick knives but that's just good in general)

[civic ocean]

Their loss! Every range you hit them with the aph specials on trick knives you also hit them with specials!

[brave dove]

I mean the actual thing is zeus attack

zeus special is just better without trick knives, it's a higher value and less of your base damage is coming from specials so if you're going multiplier + zeus it's better to have the multiplier on attack and zeus on the special

trick knives inverts the relationship between attack and special as a proportion of your damage

[civic ocean]

In your example with ares I think they are almost completely interchangeable especially because of how the statuses work

[brave dove]

it absolutely changes your build and that you don't need to change it doesn't mean that you shouldn't

they straight up aren't you get worse performance. Can you still clear? sure, you can clear 50 fear with no boons

but, for example, heinous affront- if you have ares on special, it procs on every enemy trick knives specials hit, this does not happen with ares on attack

'cause you need the wounds to be there for heinous affront to fire

[civic ocean]

How much worse is the performance I bet you it is worse than just taking the purple option of either when presented to you

Like I think you are probably making a mistake to reroll specifically for one or the other

[brave dove]

I mean, you can't afford to spend rerolls on that kind of niceties, sure, but that trick knives inverts the relationship of attack and special in your damage formula is like, critically important to optimising your build

normally you want the lowkey curse boon on special and the multiplier on attack and trick knives inverts that because special becomes like 60-80% of your damage (relative to attack for 100, ignoring things like olympian damage etc.)

when it's normally like 20-40 to attack's 60-80

[civic ocean]

Idk like particularly on Pan I think the base special is a higher% of my damage to begin with

[brave dove]

with pan it's just a time thing pan offers you pretty minimal benefits to speed without TK now you can't ospec on frenzy 2

like you just do the same specialweaving combo you do on artemis and mel blades you just don't get their damage bonuses

[civic ocean]

Sometimes I just cast them dash back and click special over and over again

[brave dove]

you get a bit of safety but trading safety for timer is how you clear high fear erebus in the first place (curse you, hecate)

[civic ocean]

The mythical “high fear” again

[brazen ore]

would have to do comparison with like a dps checker or something but i think if we're talking about optimization for builds its worth knowing what the best options are even if realistically rareties and reroll scarcities mean you are not necessarily getting them, and the point is that optimal trick knives is different than optimal without trick knives

[civic ocean]

I think you should be playing Knives optimizing your opportunities to get Trick Knives and the downsides of investing into your base special regardless are mostly still going to yield a strong weapon

Not only that but like reaper knives also scales with power! Think it is kind of a waste to put Zeus on special like almost always

[brave dove]

do you really never time out on hordes/wards/return erebus with rivals on

[civic ocean]

I don’t usually use wards and hordes for my 50s no

I think a bad run times out in Erebus

It depends how high you wanna go right? If im trying a 62 on Blades I just play as though I will get TK and reset the run if I don’t

[brave dove]

oddly enough while I think TK is probably the strongest hammer in the game I think knives are less dependent on it than axe is on psychic

only one of these weapons do I fish with experimental hammer region 2-

[civic ocean]

Yeah idk I dont play any spinning axes

[brave dove]

like if I don't hit TK on knives it's annoying but you can pivot, not hitting psychic on axe is a big pain point because you end up playing mostly the same build but you're much worse at dodging

[civic ocean]

I would imagine yeah

Idk I find that blades special is p good but will probably have to adjust to 62

[brave dove]

it is good! but the uhhh, highest dps combo for boonless knives is I believe always dash-attack-attack-attack-special repeat

[civic ocean]

Have to get my 50s with my jank surface builds still

[brave dove]

and that's just always gonna have attacks as a significantly higher proportion of your damage than specials

which trick knives inverts making it more optimal to flip your boon selection

[brave dove]

I actually forgot to respond to this but basically I mean, I think every hammer synergises with the 'aspect bonus' because crit helpfully synergises with everything.

it's not a super useful metric as a result, though I'll note that sweeping ambush does notably benefit as the highest single hit damage hammer

[empty musk]

I mean ig if the crit bonus was on a timer, but bc it's a hit amount, omega attack is helped substantially more than anything else.

But yeah I do see your point, maybe it's an issue with the aspect design more than the hammer pool

[brave dove]

I guess I just don't really know what the issue is in the first place

the point of hammers and aspects is to make runs feel meaningfully different

arty knives and the hammers for it do do that

if anything I'd say the big issue with hammers rn is non-shiva coat where there's basically only one high roll hammer and it's on par with the mid-tier hammers from other weapons (shimmering rockets)

unless exhaust riser poseidon got rolled back in patch 11? I don't remember

[stable herald]

Exhaust Riser rules and so does Launcher Frame

[brave dove]

launcher frame is qol except when combined with, specifically, exhaust riser, you can basically replicate its normal functionality by pressing special at the right time

[stable herald]

Poseidon is not the only god that loves rapid-hitting weapons

[brave dove]

do you not get better performance with hestia special and shimmering compared to exhaust riser hestia attack?

[stable herald]

maybe I don't get offered Shimmering! my only point is, that is absolutely not the only highroll hammer for coat

[civic ocean]

I just kinda think of the hammers for the most part as augmenting speed or damage or bulk and I need a certain amount of each to win a run

[brave dove]

I guess I just don't think exhaust riser is a highroll without poseidon — hestia gives you safer, equivalent or better dps on special with heavy ospec use even without shimmering

shimmering just makes it into a solve-everything button

basically anything that can stack scorch faster than you can burn through it is equivalent to or better than hestia exhaust riser because of how hestia works

there's freezer burn that's true but again I think hestia ospec + demeter cast is comparable and much safer with glowing coal

[civic ocean]

Its hard because like there’s something to be said for like rolling with what you get offered vs optimising your output because this game I think even more than Hades 1 gives you way way more tools to circumvent the whole roguelike thing

[brave dove]

Yeah I mean, you totally do roll with what you get offered and I've had successful runs with exhaust riser even post-nerf

but non-shiva coat pickings do feel very thin

[civic ocean]

Like yeah technically Hestia is better on special but I just find the comfort factor on attack way better but idk

I am a missile hater just kinda learning it now on Concave Selene

[brave dove]

I might be being unfair actually let's see...

[stable herald]

Exhaust Riser Flame Strike + Winner's Circle Arctic Ring is my preferred Freezer Burn build

[civic ocean]

I hate freezer burn with arctic ring

[stable herald]

Winner's Circle is really important if you're using your cast for Freezer Burn, yeah

[civic ocean]

They changed winner’s circle to kinda mess up arctic ring right

[stable herald]

yeah but I always used Arctic Ring more for the freeze, plus it's a moot point if you're using Freezer Burn

[brave dove]

Melting Cross — solid but doesn't apply to dash strike
Rapid Frame — works decently but coat having no real attack combo makes attack speed feel worse on it than other weapons
Reaper Frame — fine but doesn't really change the game and coat doesn't run %damage attacks outside of shiva usually anyway
Siege Frame — in practice just kind of a better version of reaper frame, combining the two is effectively a high roll for room clearing but it's two hammers not one so
World Collider — mel coat with this is basically shiva at home
Exhaust Riser — discussed
Shimmering Rockets — great, excellent, no notes
Furious Rockets — genuinely good but also does not change your play even slightly
Launcher Frame — easily the second best coat hammer but minimally noticeable if you're using autofire tech, turns 3 rockets into 5 essentially, which is a strong hammer but not out of line. When combined with Exhaust Riser, totally qualifies as a high roller gamechanger but again, that's two hammers not one
Counter Barrage — probably the worst coat hammer
Sudden Salvo — used to be more impactful, is still not a bad pickup but coat ospec buffs make it not give you much in the way of extra windows in comparison to warsong version
Ripper Rockets — same as Furious Rockets

yeah after review I will confirm that my opinion is that coat hammers are the most mid

they don't have duds like some other weapons do but you need to combine two hammers to get gamechangers outside of shimmering

[civic ocean]

Strange weapon normalish hammers kinda what I think

[brave dove]

I think part of is that some of the 'factory standard' hammers like the Rapid Attack hammer every aspect has are generally less noticeable on it

Rapid Frame feels way less significant than, say, Axe's Rapid Slash or even knives's rapid onslaught imo

just because there's not really any kind of benefit to progressing through coat's combo faster

[civic ocean]

Why no wicked frame

[brave dove]

that's what reaper frame is, basically

wicked frame wouldn't be good anyway

'cause the +power would I believe be a flat addition to the dash strike's entire damage rather than every hit

[night lotus]

gotta love the chaos trials
got storm ring on level 42

[civic ocean]

Is that how it works for onslaught

[brave dove]

I don't know how it works with morrigan's multi-hit unfortunately, if that's what you mean

if you mean knives oattack yeah it only adds flat but like, it still gets multiplied by sweeping ambush/weed killer stuff so it's still good IMO

[civic ocean]

I mean the rapid fire hit of the combo each hit gets the power right

[brave dove]

uhhh my brain says no but I haven't actually tested that in... months?

[olive bane]

so i was able to kill rivals typhon with unnerfed supay . but now after nerfs, i have tried mel skulls and new staff. i lose 2 DD to prometheus and remaining in first phase of typhon. for context i have no issues finishing underground EM4 with these weapons

any other weapon or aspect , do you guys think make em4 surface runs easier

[willow glen]

So I am having some real issues with Nergal. Is it actually good or am I just bad at it, I find the lack of range crippling to how I play

[civic ocean]

Depends on what you do and don’t do well

[civic ocean]

How do you play

[willow glen]

tending towards ranged burst damage

[civic ocean]

Then yeah you are pretty out of luck with Nergal it doesn’t do that

[willow glen]

Cast builds and such

yeah... I just want to get that nectar reward at a decent heat and buffed Hecate was actually giving me issues for the first time in ages. Now of course I died before chronos to some uberbuffed satyrs but such is life

[glass bone]

Ok, 2 for 1 combo response. Circe and Charon are cast weapons. If you want to do a cast build, do it, cause I beat Rival Prom with the former. Nergal is best played with the Omega Attack or Omega Special. Most popular atm is Demeter start and fishing for Weed Killer + Psychic Whirlwind.

[willow glen]

went with hephaistos cast damage reduction and aphro. A lot of health. But not a style I like

yeah I usually do Charon or Momus, haven't played much with Circe

[glass bone]

Circe Simple Build;
Poseidon Start + Toula Familiar. Go Death Defiances, or I guess waste the Death Defiance on Hecate/Polythemus for Gorgon Amulet Region 2 to be silly (bad idea imo).
Start with Tidal Ring, fish for Geyser Spout and Winner’s Circle, then probably Apollo Gain.

When playing, you’ll be constantly spamming Omega Casts, and triggering Toula for multiple AoE attacks.

If you need extra boons, get some support stuff such as any Duos, the Health gains from Aphro and Hephaestus, gusts and freeze attack from Demeter

The main focus imo will be that 4 boon combo of Tidal Ring (Froth for a curse), Geyser Spout (main damage), Winner’s Circle (spam cast), and Apollo (easy magic gain).

[willow glen]

wasn't even aware they changed Circe. Didn't it have serenity something

[glass bone]

Yes. Then they changed it in Unseen, and I’d argue it’s the 2nd best staff (I think the community sentiment is Anubis > Circe > Momus > Mel since the nerf of Mel Staff from 60 to 40)

[willow glen]

I'll give it a try out of curiosity, don't use the pets for much besides their passives so let's see

Anubis is pretty disgusting. I did rival 4 typhon and chronos surprisingly easy with it

[glass bone]

Actually, I feel like the sentiment is Anubis >> Circe >> Momus > Mel. The gap between 1/2 and 2/3 is larger than 3/4.

[willow glen]

I'll still probably use Momus and Mel though!

Momus' afk style gameplay just feels good to me

Mel staff I didn't realize got nerfed either

[glass bone]

All the staves are good weapons. It’s just that it feels like there is a clear distinction between what’s good and what’s great.

[edgy nacelle]

tbh Circe doesn’t really use the pets beyond needing them to exist. if you like cast builds it’s very fun for that.
Circe Storm Ring is a very fun afk-feeling build in the way Momus builds are lol. Omega Cast builds with Poseidon are more active but also very safe feeling, and any other cast build you enjoy is likely to work with Circe tbh.

Just keep an eye on where your familiar is to time when you want to drop a cast (you can lead it over to some enemies then dash away to another cluster of enemies to cover good AoE with your cast circles), but otherwise you can ignore them.

[spiral wadi]

gotta disagree, with raki if you keep using casts raki will never leave

[edgy nacelle]

tbh I never use Raki with Circe so I wouldn’t know
but regardless, if someone is hesitant abt Circe because they don’t focus on familiars much idt it’s an issue, is all

[spiral wadi]

yea it's like, not necessarily smth u need but it's smth u can use to ur advantage once u get used to it

[formal pulsar]

okay i finally got a fine line torches win. this feels so bad compared to last patch. how do you guys build it? Incandescent aura and hitch feels almost mandatory to deal dmg against guardians. what am i missing here?

#h2-victory-boasting message

[glass shell]

do you have.... ANY channel/attack speed?

You need to get it down to omega attack every 2nd or preferably every attack

[uneven palm]

Build looks sensible, I just think it doesn’t have the juice for like ultra high fear

It’s fine for like sub 50

I haven’t tried Fine Line spam at 50+ this patch but when I did it previous patches it felt uhh comparable to a boring Hera/Zeus build

[edgy nacelle]

I see racing thoughts, but is clean candle in there? I like stacking 2-3 sources of channel speed, from hammers/chaos if possible not just hermes.
personally I also save my hera rarify for fine lines, and extended family is a nice add. I also fish for pikes but they feel low impact lately so idt they’re as important as channel speed

ofc you can’t always get that lucky with boons/hammers, but that’s what stands out to me at a glance

[uneven palm]

Yeah like also I couldn’t fit in Pikes for 50+ that was a drag. It’s a fun build but takes a lot to really optimize

[brave dove]

spam the spin button

[formal pulsar]

I had epic racing thoughts (it’s in the screenshot) and the sorceress arcana card

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1401327396304719954/diabolical.mov the humble curse

[frozen prairie]

whats the best way to play nyx aspect

like what gods and boons best utilize its effect

[thin cloud]

I was running a blast based persephone build with apollo, aphrodite, and hestia, but the new heph/posiedon boon looks pretty nice, is it worth swapping out one of them for poseidon?

[thin cloud]

Anything that spreads curses well

zeus with chain lightning works well, ares, and poseidon work well also for strike boons

[lunar anvil]

should i go base aspect of circe or maxed aspect of momus and what boons should i go for with them

[long basalt]

What are the best boons for the Aspect of Nyx?
I can't really think of any that benefits from the splitting mechanic.

You have Boost, which lets you produce Nightspawn after you activate it.
...
Nightspawn: Your Attack and Special also split in 2 that deal reduced damage. Lasts for 5 Sec.

[glass shell]

It really depends on your outlook here, because the same unit can't get hit by the nightspawns anyway

But everything benefits from it, apollo basically makes you have basekit hammers that extend your range hitting half the room for example. Hitch hits more units out of your range so you split the damage between everyone etc.

[thin cloud]

Its good for spreading on hit effects or curses like wounds or blitz, because each nightspawn split applies the effects of the strike, poseidon for example enables a really room clearer

[glass shell]

While correct, enemies can't get hit by the same effect so its really just "range extended posiedon attack" you aren't double dipping on the splash damage

[thin cloud]

Yes but in a room I can hit the enemy directly infront of my, proccing splash, then with the nightspawn hit the enemies behind that enemy, further spreading the splash

Do icarus' coating abilities apply to heph armor? Or is it exclusively one use with the armor provided by the coating

[glass shell]

All armor is the exact same.

You need to hit 0 armor to explode or get invuln.

Different armor decays different and is used up first, but for the purpose of that boon its either you have armor or don't have armor

[thin cloud]

Yeah but once the armor is destroyed, does the boon lose its effect? its description implies its one use

[vague eagle]

Does the Arachne boost go away once you lose the armor? What if you have/gain more armor from another source? How does it “tell” the different armors apart?

[glass shell]

yes

[glass shell]

Once you hit 0 armor period the keepsake disables iirc, but its been awhile since i actually tested it, like multiple major updates

[polar ravine]

it applies a effect then has it set up so it goes away when all armor is depleted.

[vague eagle]

Okay so if you start with 50 armor, then gain 10 from Arachne, the effect doesn’t cut out until you lose all 60 armor!

[glass shell]

yes until you lose all armor on your person

buying it from shops, hephestus boons icarus etc its all armor. It may be consumed different cause trusty shield and security system are used up first, but its all armor. Same for stuff like arachne dresses - you take crimson dress and have 500 armor? It doesn't go away until all 500s gone

[vague eagle]

Cool

I have not managed to keep an Arachne outfit past Hecate yet sadly

[thin cloud]

So if you're trying to base a build off of a specific god, should you use its keepsake first out of your 4 gods, or last to get the most? It feels like the keepsake I use first seems to get the least boons rolled during the run

[vague eagle]

Curious what the best weapon aspects are. The Aspects of Melinoe seem decent to me, compared to Aspects of Zagreus which were basically strictly worse than other aspects

[cerulean panther]

Sometimes the seed doesn't like the Keepsake you picked, but starting is generally the best way to get a particular Olympian, if for no other reason than it just guarantees them being in your run.

[glass shell]

almost all mel aspects are pretty ass ngl

Mel staff has arguments, but i won't be a defender for it post nerfs

Mel blades are my favorite, but its sure not topping the aspect charts and is just a freezer burn abuser at its core

Mel torch is the one real "Strong" option here

Mel axe is one of the worst aspects in the game and in need of buffs, but its still an axe so its not THAT bad

Mel skull was the best weapon in the game for 24 hours until they hotfix nerfed it after it got reworked, now its mid-skull

Mel coat is a meme. Basically zag sword tier with funny dash attack spam builds

[vague eagle]

Lol what was Mel skull like for those 24 hours?

[glass shell]

Mel skull pre rework was 20 power 3 skulls special didn't automatically collect your skulls so you had to manually pick them up. A few other changes too like damage on skulls and such but too much detail at that point

Post rework there were FIVE skulls all with 20 power bonus, increased base damage on the hits and all of the QOL bonuses skull as a whole got

it was an absolute nuke spamming apollo basically

then it got hotfix nerfed, a first ever in hades history afaik, down to its current 12 power and 4 skull limit

[vague eagle]

Damn

[glass bone]

I think that at the point of Patch 11, 3/6 best aspect weapons are the hidden (Anubis, Morrigan, and Nergal). For the remaining 3….
Patch 9 would have been 4/6 with Supay, but now… I feel like there’s an argument for all of the torch aspects. I can’t say for certain though, because I’ve played with Torches the least out of the 6 since Unseen.
Medea is better than Hel, though Medea has a very high skill floor and ceiling for higher fears. Torn for 2nd place between Persephone and Hel because their main builds are… inconsistent, to say the least (Pom levels and Poseidon ICD respectively)
Coat is like Torches but removing Mel from the equation. I dont know though if Shiva is the strongest coat aspect, since Selene now has more flexibility, and Nyx has fantastic AoE.

[glass shell]

I'd say Moros pretty solidly dominates the torch discussion still, eos is still a bit clunky and lacks the raw power and you can play moros as better mel torch

[polar ravine]

its fun to get the possessed array and the one that automatically collect skulls and just continuously explode in a huge radius

[glass shell]

If mel torch was universal crit we might be talking, even back at 5% crit chance if it had to be nerfed in exchange being able to crit on your fine lines and stuff would be disgusting

but with morso being able to pierce + explode its just better imo

Shiva coat is probably the best coat though in an overall standpoint

Selene has an argument if you are talking full on peak builds

but shiva is just more consistent and faster bar for bar and pulls ahead in that race if you put a gun to my head

[glass bone]

Iirc, the “perfect” Selene build requires selling/sacrificing an Ares boon and getting a godsend.

[glass shell]

Yeah like godsent selene with mortal blow + fully path of star'd with optimal node generation is an absolute monster

but shiva can do similar amounts of damage, if lower at its peak just 15(19% with raki) night critting in erebus lmao

[glass bone]

Is the added 4% worth picking Raki over Hecuba for Shiva?

[glass shell]

If you can guarantee a good mana boon

Otherwise probably not hecuba helps earlygame

[civic ocean]

Selene also does really well with Night fwiw

Like it's worse but it's still v strong

[glass shell]

yeah but its not like, one shotting boss phases strong even with shine

typhon fight vs typhon fight peak i'd probably expect selene to be easier and faster

but the process up to that point is just in shivas favor

[glass bone]

This still feels so weird though. That at the start of Patch 9, Shiva was unquestionably the worst aspect, and now it’s non-TK pan that’s the worst with Shiva being the best at something

But I shouldn’t complain much about Shiva’s success. I guess it’s just amazing and surprising of such a turnaround from just a few patches.

[lean breach]

Speaking of, my next run will be Aspect of Shiva (I think I just got it to Rank IV or V) and I'm going up with 16. I've got time at 9 mins per stage with hoards and resurrection. I always start out with the Starlight keepsake to get the hexes ASAP, but after that I've been experimenting with others (I have all I can get). Any suggestions for specific boons I should look out for?

[civic ocean]

Ig selene typhon fight is just like if you have jacked ares hex and task force you just press the button 5 times and win

[glass shell]

You want apollo for your attack ideally, cause it works well with the omega ttack to nuke the whole room and just the normal combo if yuo need to mob clear.

Special is also decent cause you can fire and forget and clear large aoes

Alternatives are aphrodite attack, more damage(that likely isn't needed barring grit fear), or hera.

Specials can get anything honestly its mostly just a tool to clear some areas and to stack your destructive to crit for beeg damage

[glass bone]

I haven’t done a Shiva run myself, so I’m not fully confident about all the boons. But what I feel can feel confident about is

1. Selene’s Keepsake generally is not the best starting keepsake save for Selene Coat. Typically you start with a God keepsake to fish for certain boons (e.g. Zeus Special on Medea, Apollo Gain on Charon, Heph Attack on Persephone, etc.).
2. I’d generally not recommend not doing Hordes as a fear option. To give advice on that though is much more complicated.

[glass shell]

Ares is nice to help double your damage, but you'd need to get wounds so probably special for him, cause you don't want it on attack(i think?)

[polar ravine]

task force?

[glass shell]

Idk how the math works out on +50 wounds on a up to +300% damage amp innate honestly

[glass shell]

athena boon that unlocks at 4 gifts + defeating typhon. Lets you use your godsent 1-4 more times per location

So you can have up to 6 godsents with a heroic task force + the node in the path of stars

[civic ocean]

The Oattack is high power right if so then you want more % and to get it from Griefer Bonk on Special and Mega Dunk with lots of HP missing

[glass shell]

Oattack is high base power, but the stacks goes up to +300% innately so theoretically ares wound power and small amp might be better than getting a like +100% apollo attack, outside of the aoe implications

probably not though?

[civic ocean]

Oh yeah probably then idk how often you get maxed out

If so then it probably doesn’t matter too much for bossing and you’d rather have Apollo for clear

[glass bone]

Ok, so max charge Shiva OAttack deals 300 Damage without Strength, Origination, or Night Crit.

[glass shell]

honestly it probably boils down to "you one shot the boss phase anyway, just pick apollo dumbass"

[glass bone]

Wait a minute, where’s the +100% damage from Apollo coming from?

[glass shell]

honestly i just ballparked what he did in my head

[glass bone]

Nevermind. I’ll just try to give some math that hopefully could be useful.

[glass shell]

hes around that isn't he

o im thinking special his attacks 40-70

[glass bone]

Heroic is 70% according to the wiki.

[glass shell]

damn why his attack so weak

[glass bone]

Ok, math question; does Wounds get affected by the +300% from Destructive?

[glass shell]

yes

power adds to the base attack

[glass bone]

And does the +% from Ares Attack itself also apply to the Wounds?

[glass shell]

it applies to the whole attack

[glass bone]

Ok.

At Epic Rarity, by including 6 Destructive Stacks, max charge Shiva OAttack, I think Ares is better at a singular attack…
4(300+50) * 1.4 =1,960
4(300) * 1.6=1,920
Of course, this doesn’t factor in Strength, Origination, the larger AoE from Apollo, and the curse delay from Ares for the purpose of bosses.

I did the *4 because that’s 100% + 300%.

This also doesn’t include any of the hammers that affect the math.

[glass shell]

minor correction, as the 300% is just added to the other %. So it should really just be 350x4.4 and 300x4.6

So that works out to be 1540 vs 1380

[glass bone]

I feel like the right choice is still Apollo because of the larger attacks, and because World Collided is more flat damage than Wounds.

[glass shell]

All %s are added together

[glass bone]

Oh. My bad.

[glass shell]

Of course its usually better for apollo anyway, but an argument can be made for stuff like mortal blow to stack on top of crits

but then theres always the wound cd per unit

which you cant spam vs a boss

[uneven palm]

Wiki's wrong. Apollo strike rarities are 40/60/80/100%

[glass shell]

yeah i swear he got buffed in unseen but i could be wrong LMAO

and his pom scaling too, hes much closer to aphro for some reason

[glass bone]

Oh. Fooled again by the wiki.

[elfin forge]

bamboozled

[glass bone]

Then Apollo is strictly better.

[glass shell]

300x4.8 1440 vs ares 1540, still better damage wise.

[spiral wadi]

the outdated wiki,,

[glass bone]

Oops.. again.

[glass shell]

of course theres a bunch of other factors to consider like apollos range, backburner etc

then ares has mortal blow which the moment it procs even once is just LMAO btfo'd

1320x 200%= 2640

which can then further stack on crit

[forest hinge]

A few Hera questions: can Hitch-dmg crit? (i wanna use Raki in a Circe/Hitch build)

does Hitch copy Scorch dmg?

can Incandescent Aura crit?

can Scorch crit?

how does IA work in general?? the wiki says it deals 500% of restored mana as dmg every 0.2sec, but like how long does it take to deal that dmg?(theres no duration listed)

[thin gazelle]

I’m fairly sure hitch copies scorch damage

[formal pulsar]

1. Yes hitch shares hitch dmg.
2. yes but it needs pressure points or antler or raki.
3. No
4. From my experience it deals dmg to all hitched enemies at once but I only had experience with born gain that restores magick every once in a while.

[civic ocean]

Another fun fact about Hitch is that it is all one source of damage, meaning that while Air Quality will set its initial damage to 50, future applications will not deal 50 damage until the hitch is cleared and re-applied

[thin gazelle]

Quick question- what’s the ideal vow setup for 32 fear in the underworld? I’ve done it on the surface but I keep failing right near the end

[civic ocean]

Short answer is "it depends"

Long answer is what and how do you like to play?

[thin gazelle]

I typically just go with whatever gives me extra bones, but I’m probably best with aspect of Moros (due to mobility). I can go with pretty much anything, though (I’m on mouse & keyboard). As for play style, I’m fairly experienced with hades (100% hades 1) so I can run most builds.

I run strength builds typically

[forest hinge]

wait are you saying Hitch gets cleared after IA procs?

[civic ocean]

Okay well the fear that's good mostly depends on your intuition then - pick what works with your weapon and how you like to play it

[civic ocean]

No, hitch will clear naturally over time if not re-applied

For example if you run a strength build you shouldn't take Scars

[thin gazelle]

Are the onions a good idea?

[civic ocean]

Usually no? What Vows do you currently use?

[forest hinge]

oh, well then AQ with IA sounds awesome. Might take some messing around to get the build online though lol

[thin gazelle]

Rivals 4, frenzy 2, menace 2, shadow, time 3, forfeit

Im very comfortable with time, and rivals Chronos is (USUALLY) fine

Forfeit is what feels the worst

[past salmon]

Denial and Hubris are pretty free in terms of fear

I would definitely suggest against taking forfeit

[thin gazelle]

I’ve always tried to run denial, but then I get 2 boons I want in one pull… it definitely adds more luck but it’s probably a good pick

[elfin forge]

damn I wanted to ask it what the best aspect was rn

[past salmon]

Uhhh situational

Casual and Speeds Medea
High fear ?????
Idk probably not Medea tho (it's still great there tho)

[spiral wadi]

i'd say circe but i haven't played any of the other aspects at high fear so i can't say lol

[civic ocean]

I think if all you care about is clearing a 32 one time and nothing further than that, I would recommend against Rivals 4

let me upload my 51 supay clear then ill break it down for you

[elfin forge]

I don't care about your opinion mr high fear and speedrun, I wanted the scambots opinion

[past salmon]

my bad 😭

[past salmon]

counterpoint: clearing it with rivals 4 is cool and awesome

[elfin forge]

shame they got obliterated by mods before they could share their knowledge with the world

[elfin forge]

they'll probably die a lot to prom and chronos and typhon though

[past salmon]

they said theyve done surface

[elfin forge]

its kinda weird but I kinda like how the normal bosses usually didnt kill my runs lol

they havent finished 32 rivals 4 surface I think

[civic ocean]

So if you want to build from 32 to eventually do like 50s and 60s, or even just winstreaks or volumes at 40, I think your build is mostly solid.

Like Foolish said I'd add Denial and Hubris, and then personally I would drop menace and go Fangs 1. So:

Frenzy 2
Fangs 1
Shadow
Time 3
Hubris 2
Denial
Rivals 4

If you just want the trophy and don't care how you get it, I would re-add menace and max out Fangs, and remove one each of Frenzy and Rivals, adding one of Debt/Return/Grit/Wards/Pain as you see fit. You can also do one level of menace and Frenzy 2 so:

Frenzy 1 + Menace 1 + wards 1(or any 1 fear of your choice NOT SCARS IF STRENGTH) /OR/ Frenzy 2 + Menace 1
Fangs 2
Rivals 3
Shadow
Denial
Hubris 2
Time 3

[spiral wadi]

is it possible to predict where talos' shield pathing goes or is it just hope and pray

cuz what the hell are those movement "patterns"

[civic ocean]

I think it is like I think my muscle memory knows where he's throwing them atp but I can't explain it

Or maybe I'm just too projectile slow pilled

[spiral wadi]

interesting, ig it's smth i'll get used to

[civic ocean]

fwiw I think Hard Target and Enfeeblement of Cowards are so crazy good on Surface because those offscreen projectiles are maddening

[uneven palm]

Yes those are both incredible

I mostly just try to get behind Talos if he’s throwing shields and that seems to work no matter how they fly… except dude really likes to hug walls

[vague eagle]

What’s the best Selene hex?

[civic ocean]

It depends

[vague eagle]

Okay is there one that just always lame?

[civic ocean]

No, not really? If you are playing Scars 3, Moon Water is pretty bad, I guess.

[willow phoenix]

They're all pretty good, but some require more investments than others while some are stronger earlier but don't scale that well

[vague eagle]

What happens if you max out the hex tree and still have more to distribute?

[willow phoenix]

Those points just get wasted sadly

If you're interested in doing max hex builds, Lunar Ray probably scales the strongest depending on which upgrade path you get. Triple ray + godsent deals silly amount of damage

[quartz parrot]

Anybody have a fun build for me

[open sable]

u can try possessed array skull with fine line, ocean swell

[olive tusk]

hephestus aspect of morrigan

use rerolling or hera to get atleast one heroic atk or spesh boon, perfect if you can get both, level them up until you hit the cap

get poseidon to get the seismic servo duo boon

one of the harder builds to set up, but it can completely destroy bosses in record time

remember to take blood triad hammer upgrades

[willow phoenix]

Get to 500+ health and do 100% Mutual Destruction lol

[glass bone]

Persephone Skull is a very fun aspect, though it was nerfed pretty badly in Patch 10 (used to be that you’d almost always find one 4/5/6 Pom boon with each chance being 33%.). Fun and viable runs with this are King’s Ransom leaning towards fun (go Underworld for Echo chance of doubling Pom levels), and Heph Blast (follow what Taltus said but replace the triad hammers with… something. Most hammers can work, though Wide Grin is mixed on how well it does with Heph.). It’s faster to set up with arguably lower payoff than Morrigan.

[quartz parrot]

So start with adamant shard get attack or special try and get hera bridal glow and poseidon on cast ?

And also should i try get heph leggo

[olive tusk]

I actually dk what heph leggo does on morrigan aspect, I'm still trying to get a run like that going
adamant shard plus you can try giving up and trying again until you get a rare atk/spesh boon which you can just adamant shard into a heroic without needing hera

you can also get a common heph atk/spesh, finish erebus and then do take aromatic phial

also the rerolling im talking about isnt the fate dice, it's a run reroll mechanic you get after completeing 16 fear i believe

[quartz parrot]

Oh ok i was thinking abou running 16 fear but idk what to put on

Like maybe rivals 4 plus menace an like timer ?

[quartz parrot]

And also heph leggo just buffs until 999

[olive tusk]

I do time 3 and random fear sliders except for vow of scars, pain, hubris or denial , these four are the four horsemen of the apocalypse for me

[quartz parrot]

Rivals is like pretty good in terms of fear no

And also im like pretty bad at the game

[olive tusk]

I've moved on to 50 fear now, I have no choice but to take these really bad ones, the only real issue with 50f runs is that if your build isnt atleast 90% fully working by erebus you are screwed, so 50f runs for me are just tons of rerolling

[quartz parrot]

So wait you can hop into a run give up and reroll?

[olive tusk]

vow of rivals is good, if your bossfights are well practiced, rivals choronos is manageable, I still need death defiance when doing frenzy 2

[olive tusk]

using the will of night altar yeah

[quartz parrot]

Ok prob gonna try your build and get 16 fear

[olive tusk]

have fun, remember to just keep trying 🫡

[cursive raft]

Anyone got any arcana builds/tips for the Aspect of the Morrigan

or do you guys make a dedicated arcana loadout per weapon?

[stable herald]

My arcana loadout is mostly weapon-agnostic, but I'll swap Huntress for Night if I'm planning on spamming omega moves instead of regular moves

[uneven palm]

Morrigan is very nearly build agnostic imo. Put any of Hera, Hestia, Apollo, Zeus, Heph on attack and build from there. Apollo legendary is very fun if you want to flex.

Fastest triad combo is dash, tap special, hold attack, release to Omega. The omega charge is the dangerous part so a safer way is charge and release Omega attack from a distance, special, dash-strike (Triad pops), hold attack to zorp to the next one.

If you can’t even with Triads, get Final Slice or Wicked Onslaught and do dash-strike attack. It’s sufficient damage but not nearly as rad looking.

[dim kelp]

On Anubis with MnK, it’s possible to dash backwards while charging the Ω attack to put the arc inside the attack circle. Does anyone know if it’s reasonably feasible to achieve the same placement with controller? I’ve been trying to dash forward and then 180, but I always end up with the Ω arc a dash-length outside of the attack circle. Either I successfully dash forward and then fail to turn fast enough to put the arc behind me in the circle, or I turn too early and end up dashing in the wrong direction and putting the arc outside of the circle in the direction I dashed to.

Is this something I can actually learn to do reasonably consistently (with controller) if I keep trying? Or is it unreasonably difficult to do when I can’t control my dash and attack directions independently?

[uneven palm]

It’s possible on controller but the inputs are like microsecond precise and I can’t do it all with many charge speed boosts. Hold Attack, tilt back, dash, tilt back in. I find it real hard to do in combat tbh and I dunno that it’s worth the effort either

[woeful moth]

How do I dodge chro p3 scythe attack? My gameplay against him in that phase is keeping distance and when he stops I run towards him. But sometime he does his scythe attack which is for me guaranteed taking damage

[spiral wadi]

dash into his middle scythe (right), then sprint the opposite direction (left)

alternatively just run away

[willow phoenix]

hmm damage buff shouldn't increase scorch application right?

I'm confused to why Smolder Ring is dealing so much scorch here, like it's dealing 200+ scorch per tick for epic Smolder with lvl 3, the desc says it's only supposed to be doing 115
https://youtu.be/7jD0lQTmwZs?si=7t4J_TUBNZlnYp3k

[wanton dune]

supay is still so broken even on 32 fear

[civic ocean]

Even above that ye its a very good aspect

[wanton dune]

haven't tried above 32 omg

tho the aspect i wanna try a 32 fear run is morrigan

haven't figured out a good build for it tho

[brazen ore]

im getting stupid at building supay these days tbh. the miniscule special damage got me messed up

[glass shell]

smolder ring is bugged as of this patch

They added in code that makes it double benefit from global amp for some reason

applies both to the scorch applied, and to the scorch damage itself

[willow phoenix]

that's something lol

[brazen ore]

scusi???

smolder ring i never doubted you

[glass shell]

stealing it from hippo on the other server

When scorch stacks turn into damage, they still benefit from % damage modifiers as usual. For some reason they added a few lines to the code for Smolder Ring specifically (no other scorch boons) that makes the amount of scorch applied also affected by any % damage that would apply to your cast (so %global, and %cast mostly)

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1399935910023266304/image.png?ex=6890be2a&is=688f6caa&hm=7273689d74de21dba42a1a58a8332c915079e09c834fa525fa492cd0876c7631&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1844&height=181

left pre patch right post patch

so not really "bugged" more.... why?

either they forgot scorch damage already benefitted from the damage amp or they forgot to add that to every other scorch boon like attack/special

[brazen ore]

Oh interesting

That seems like it can't be intentional

[willow phoenix]

Maybe they were adding stuff to buff fire away but got confused in the process

And it somehow made it into production

[surreal hazel]

So uhhh. Fire Away is actually kind of amazing with supernova

The entire cast deletes and and all projectiles that exist in its area throughout its duration

[uneven palm]

My guess is they were trying to have some way for Smolder Ring to benefit from +% boosts on casts but went too far

[indigo viper]

I had amazing Charon's axe run with hammer for 2x omega special + Apollo's legendary - 4x omega special on one cast.

[fair jasper]

Is htis the place to ask where and how i obtain the hidden weapon stuff

[willow phoenix]

To obtain the hidden aspect of a weapon, iirc you need to max out the level of one of the aspects for that weapon, then you need to talk to the Unseen wielder of the weapon, namely the npc named in the 2nd aspect of the weapon (Circe for staff, Charon for axe, etc)

[fair jasper]

ahhh

THAT makes sense, i need to max out an aspect.

how about the pets, how many are there and is there a guide i can find too get em all

[willow phoenix]

I don't remember it that well but there are 5 familiars
One if Frinos, one is in Olympus, one is in the fields, one is in erebus, one is in the entry point to Thessaly iirc

[fair jasper]

jesus

I have 2, i know where one of the others is...I just assume i gotta keep petting it

[willow phoenix]

You need to give them a treat. If they're one of Hecate's familiars then you need to get the dialogue asking her for permission first

[fair jasper]

Hm.

[willow phoenix]

I checked the code for the requiement for that dialogue

• Unlocked 3 familiars
• Used Frinos to exorcise spirits once
• Used the other familiar to mine resources once
• Met both Hecate's familiars in a run
• Spent at least 2 treats, maybe for upgrades

[fair jasper]

I see

i have, 2 of them

I dont know, I bought this game 6 hours after it came out so ive just been playing and keeping up with updates really

Oh,i cant send images here

[glass bone]

Finally beat Rival Chronos Frenzy 2 again (44 Fear). It was an absolute pain where I had to use Athena’s replenishing death defiances not only to survive, but also to timer stall. But, a win’s a win. Even if it is not so pretty.

[glass shell]

The timer damage feels kinda worthless tbh

last 2 times i've ever gone over timer i had like triple dd and finished the fight after losing one and not even getting close to losing a 2nd. like i kinda feel like it should be like surface curse, exponentially increasing the damage unless it already does and im just blind

[sage flame]

was more painful during strength meta since it doesn't get reduced

with DDs it's way less stressful

and yeah it's just 5 damage every second rn no scaling

[glass shell]

Like on one hand last thing i want is for timer 3 to be more punishing for the weapons that can't complete the region in that time safely

but at the same time..... whats the point of this 5 damage man i have like 400 and 3+ dds 😭

[sage flame]

idk lol I only really get timed out in erebus anyway

after erebus it just isn't an issue ever

except for one time when I primed out on rivals cerb with shiva lmao

but that was also 50 I think

[glass bone]

The point is when you do not have 400 health and 3+ death defiances.

And no, it doesn’t scale exponentially. I don’t remember if Surface Curse does this, but it does hit through Dark Side and Unseen Ire.

[glass shell]

like.... yes but also that just seems like it does nothing. Like maybe if the "lost time" subtracted from your next region too instead of just resetting to a generic +5:00 to the clock

end erebus at 5:36 only have 4:24 to do oceanus

[glass shell]

surface curse bypasses everything, dd's invuln armor and goes up by 1 damage every 5 seconds 1>2>3>4>5 etc

[glass bone]

Well if it doesn’t change, one thing I’d want to see is “What’s the longest IGT possible to complete a run at high fear (I.e. 50+) with Timer 3 added?”

In other words… how much stalling can Nergal do against Timer?

[median anvil]

50 fear slowrunning

[glass bone]

Yes. Last place on the leaderboard. Timer 3 required (or at-least Time 1), otherwise it’d be no fun.

[elfin forge]

pretty sure I saw someone with like a 30 hour clear once because they didnt' pause when they left

[glass bone]

The slowest I see uploaded on speedrun.com is a 28 minute clear at Patch 10 with Supay.

[glass bone]

No, IGT. The purpose is not to just leave a system running for days.

[glass shell]

🤔

Whats nergals base damage on a single attack?

Cause like assuming you just have like 100% dodge which isn't... HARD to get with the right pool and no denial it would just be iron core 3 attacks vs chronos to outheal it... functionally infinite

Even easier/longer stall with heph legendary on a previous boonboonboon night so you don't need to dilute your pool with heph for more air

[glass bone]

I can’t check atm in game, and Wiki doesn’t list a set of damage numbers for the hidden aspects

[glass shell]

and i think chronos has more combined hp than typhon due to 3 phases

can anything lower your damage in the game? i don't think so

reckless abandon always hitting 5 damage i guess?

But then we don't get heph legendary off boonboonboon but that is probably less combined damage than 9 reg attacks + sustaining 3 attacks for the 5hp decay

so its really a question of is it easier to have 4 attack to activate beserk + regular nergal damage or 5 damage hits but 9 beserk hits

[glass bone]

One thing I am thinking is to take Toula + Renewed Faith.

[glass shell]

decent option, but then you lose out on gale for the 6% dodge to help hit 100%

actually wait im just stupid every time you dodge you can heal with aphro duo boon

why am i even thinking about nergal you baited me

that already is functionally infinite as long as your getting hit once every 5 seconds

until he does the instakill anyway, but just never go to phase 2

[glass bone]

You fell for my trap! /j

No, but really. That was just the first thing I was reminded of in the event Scars has to be taken for the 50 clear

[civic ocean]

I don't think Nergal can regain 5 hp a second

[glass shell]

apollo duo and infusion bypasses scars, for some reason

timer isn't damage per second is it it feels way slower than that

[civic ocean]

lemme find out

[past salmon]

Run Phase shift and get Iron core and you can out heal timer fairly comfortably
Then just depends on Phase shift uptime ig

[civic ocean]

Well you would presumably end the run then right because theyd die

[past salmon]

Yeh probably smile

Oppression
Literally 1984

[civic ocean]

I guess what you could do with Nergal or even like Vampiric Cataclysm is infinitely stall on Scylla? Does she have a cap on fish

and yeh it's 5 dmg per second

[past salmon]

I think she does have a cap actually but don't quote me on it.

This is from a vague memory of like 4 patches ago

[glass shell]

i too recall fish not spawning eventually

[glass shell]

per second damn it really did not feel like that

[fair jasper]

Conclave stone just gave me a Legendary and a Duo i may have a new favourite trinket

[dim kelp]

Congrats! It will bite you sometimes tho

But if you’re willing to take the gamble and can find the humor in the times it ruins your build instead, it’s a fun one

[formal pulsar]

I think I found missing piece for fine line torch builds. Fine line has same scaling as Zeus specials. Ignore Poseidon and ripple effect and go for Zeus and queen ransom. Solves magick and dmg problems too by pomming born gain.

[willow phoenix]

Queen's ransom is pretty underated imo. Ransomed Hereditary Bane vs Rivals Prom is very funny. I think the highest I got is 300% hitch damage

Uncommon Grace also scales very well

With that said most of her better scaling boons specialize in clearing mobs so it can get redundant I guess

[fair jasper]

yeahhhh

its a gamble xd

My favourite and the trinket i can just never take off is chaos

Being able to exit the first location with a free epic chaos boon is utterly absurd.

[rocky pier]

I don’t think you could convince me that Charybdis’s balls can be dodged

That attack is straight up unfair

[civic ocean]

the midboss?

[sage flame]

the balls can be dodged mostly by just sprinting in the opposite direction across the arena

should buy enough time for them to detonate

[glass shell]

stay in the middle until a ball almost reaches you > run up > wait till balls reach you > go to back wall and run down.

gg

[civic ocean]

I should try that I always go top to bottom then back

[wanton dune]

I know supay is pretty much OP but what other aspects+builds work for 32 fear?

[junior trail]

eos can be pretty fun with arc flash or hera o.special but dang the daybreaker's tracking is still

[civic ocean]

For 32 fear? Literally almost anything you want and put some thought into!

[wanton dune]

I hate the tracking :((

[wanton dune]

Me scared using daggers coz I will get hit (skill issue)

[civic ocean]

Daggers are fun but I am not a good person to ask I just gamba for Trick Knives and then win the run

[sage flame]

circe staff with toula >>>>

[wanton dune]

Trick knives>>>

[wanton dune]

Wait what's ur build on this

[sage flame]

cast that does damage
any omega cast boons you can find
winner circle of youd like

genuinely an extremely flexible aspect

so finding poseidon, dem, apollo, ares, are all great finds if you want omega casts

[wanton dune]

Poseidon's froth

[civic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw2suSn-Cho Here's Red's 62 clear with Smolder Ring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxactn95R08 here's Boated's 62 with Storm Ring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r05svUrot4Q Here's my 51 with Air Quality Gales

[wanton dune]

51 fear with Air Quality sounds nasty

[civic ocean]

nah air quality is goated atm especially with gales its so good

[vagrant monolith]

How am I supposed To dodge the Eris machine guns stack

[median anvil]

what

[stoic tinsel]

I beat R4 typhon, only took 54% dodge

[vagrant monolith]

Fixed it

[median anvil]

her base bossfight, you just dash behind her

she has ridiculous tracking until right when she starts shooting so dash as late as possible

then keep strafing to stay right behind her

[vagrant monolith]

But it starts shooting to fast to get behind her

[median anvil]

you have to always stay close to her even on ranged weapons

if things ever get too chaotic the pillars are a scapegoat

[vagrant monolith]

The pillars never last past phase 2 for me

[median anvil]

that's a sign that you're not dealing enough damage

the faster you kill her the less she'll be around to shoot at you

[vagrant monolith]

I can get and stay closer but the build I had comeplty locked me out of close range

Without killing myself or losing all my damge

[median anvil]

??? what build was it

[vagrant monolith]

A cast build

It was shortened cast times and last with a lot of extra dmsge from it

But I picked up the exploding casts from Icarus

And I’m not skilled enough to count to 4 seconds while dodging

[median anvil]

ok that was just the mistake on taking hazard 😂 that offering is rarely good

[vagrant monolith]

It was REALLY GOOD damge but uhhh stage 4 kicked my ahh

And it didn’t work well with my weapon

I didn’t think the blast would be bigger then the actual cast

[glass bone]

Ok, got a question for folks here; what’s the easiest pathway to 50 Fear on both sides? At the moment, my highest fear clear is 44 Underworld with Aspect of Circe, and the following Vows (all max); Wards, Frenzy, Menace, Return, Fangs, Debt, Shadow, Time, Hubris, Denial, Rivals. I know I could push things further by doing some of the 40 Fear stuff I did via Pain + Scars (set to 1), but 46 =/= 50…

[uneven palm]

For 50 from there I’d do 2 scars, 1 pain, probably 1 hordes or grit. For once in my life I might lean hordes? 50% healing is still a lot and 1 pain isn’t the worst either.

Surface I might take Forfeit

[stoic tinsel]

would zeus special be good on charon?

[glossy rivet]

Is heph infusion just bad?

[glass bone]

I’m not certain… At Cast range, I imagine the Blitz would be triggered first. But to trigger Blitz on a target not in cast range, that would take another attack. Last time I played Charon, I used Hera special with Incandescent Aura and Apollo Gain to deal massive AoE damage.

[willow phoenix]

It's something I guess, but the use cases where it's good is pretty niche I guess

Like it's pretty good if you're running wounds or some high power weapon that doesn't use omega and can stack a lot of earth

But personally I've never done a run to stack as many Martial Arts stack as possible but I've done that with other infusions so I might be underrating it

But like even bonus ~50% damage for attack/special while good isn't exactly amazing

[tall notch]

idk about surface, but on uw I'd take everything** except** those: void (obviously), rivals 4, onion and whatever other 2 points of fear you are scared of the most in the setup

[glass bone]

I know it’s weird, but like… I feel like I’d almost want to do Frenzy 2 Rival Chronos. I wanna get better at it, but it’s a rough fight to even practice. I’m getting better at Phase 1, but Phase 3 is where things go to crap.

[tall notch]

oh yeah if you want to do r4 then by all means go ahead, but it does make things a fair bit harder

[formal pulsar]

Zeus special is good on charon

[tall notch]

so, what i consider the easiest 50f wouldn't have r4 in it

[glass bone]

My main thought about Rivals 4 Chronos is if I can get it down well enough, then stuff like Rivals Scylla and Timer will get easier.

[formal pulsar]

Look up mynt and red writeup on the axe. It was written up during the Olympic update but most of it still applies. It is on Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1gmp85h/hades_ii_nocturnal_arms_guide_zorephet_the/

[tall notch]

I'd assume the things about playstyles of aspects apply, but I would doublecheck anything that goes on about boons

or be willing to try boons the guide doesnt mention

[formal pulsar]

you can use the practice mod or use pony qol to quit the encounter and repeatedly do it till you feel comfortable with him

[tall notch]

oh yeah also familiars and hexes will be outdated since this is from patch 6

[glass bone]

Some arcana is also a bit outdated. It talked about a 3 Cost Death arcana in the Charon section (figured to read it myself).

[formal pulsar]

ofc but the fundamentals still the same for charon. lucid gain. zeus, hera, apollo all good on the special. or how you can dash while still charging the ospecial. stuff like that are still useful for aspect beginner.

[tall notch]

yeah the aspect overviews are amazing, got nothing to say about that

but everything about the boons is so pre-warsong update, I lowkey love the peek into that patch's meta 😭 😭 😭

[glass bone]

Just did a 50 Fear run, failed at P3 Chronos…

But at-least I know now that with a little more skill and luck, I can get the win.

[restive jolt]

What blessings are you using with Aspect of Supay?

[uneven palm]

Hestia or Poseidon dash, any on-hit or maaaaybe ares or Hera on attack special

[formal pulsar]

i like blitz attack or special and romantic spark on supay

[uneven palm]

Blitz is great yeah

[quartz parrot]

You could do zeus special and dash then try and get romantic spark and cram as much hera as you can get then get kings ransom also air quality is good on supay

[restive jolt]

Mmmm cool

I'm trying with Aphrodite + Ares

I'll follow what you said and test soon!!! thank you guys

[uneven palm]

Like if you’re doing Aphro on attack/special you’re gonna be sad

The base power on everything from Supay is disgustingly low

[restive jolt]

Attack/special i'm doing with ares

Aphrodite's attack/special only works with the daggers, i think so

[uneven palm]

Uhh that is not accurate. Just be close ish to things and you get the damage bonus

It’s roughly cast radius if you need a rough guide

[surreal hazel]

Uhhhh. Hephestus on persephone skill is kinda disgusting

[uneven palm]

If you get some bonus levels it sure is

[surreal hazel]

Check #h2-victory-boasting

1.5 second cooldown and chain reaction

[uneven palm]

Noice

[surreal hazel]

Honestly should've taken blinding rush since it would have opened the door to rude Awakening and sunny d

But yeah. Took the long way to chronos, still got that time

[brazen ore]

i feel like that's why i'm still not enamored with heph most of the time cause like i could reset to get a level 6 epic heph attack on pers(h)eph or reroll doors for poms but that just feels so annoying to me

[surreal hazel]

But when it works...

[brazen ore]

i knowwww but i always feel like i'm playing a gacha game or something lmao

i find it frustrating resetting for epic some of the time, resetting for epic and pom levels makes me gnash on my cage bars

[sage flame]

I actually still prefer persephone with some of the "old" builds with hera on special and some good damaging cast and prob zeus attack or something silly

[brazen ore]

i prefer scorch persephone

[sage flame]

and just taking whatever level rng I get on my core boons

[brazen ore]

i do think pers-heph-one probably does more damage overall than scorch if you dedicate yourself to rerolling to get it ideal but if you're spending that much time rerolling honestly it should be cracked

i am also sort of unsure about the victory screens because i think they count overflow damage from heph blasts, so i think it can look a lot better than it really is

(again not saying it's bad if you invest heavily into it, i just don't think it's as runaway amazing as it looks on the screens)

[formal pulsar]

this actually makes heph unplayable with onion for me. like I am gonna keep rerolling the seed because I am not dredging through lvl 1 rare heph attack for this run and onion makes rerolling for high rarity/lvl so annoying

and tbh for heph, as long as back burner is not fixed, you only need apollo to do truly disgusting damage. rude awakening + backburner = 2k blasts without really anything else

[brazen ore]

fixed? does it do more than what it says in the tooltip? i was unaware of this

[formal pulsar]

blasts still backstab so epic back burner is + 100% to blasts

so (400+300 from rude) x (100+ 100 global dmg + 100 epic back burner) = 2100 dmg

[surreal hazel]

So that's what was happen on another run of mine...

2k+ blasts

[formal pulsar]

yeah back burner is 2x the dmg of cryo pounder and it has no cd unlike cryo....

[glass shell]

well i mean its clearly a bug that it works since they specifically tried removing it

[brazen ore]

ah yes oopsies

[surreal hazel]

Even though that same blast removes daze through rude awakening? I guess that removal happens after damage calc

[brazen ore]

! one of my victory screens is on autumns site. i feel so special

[formal pulsar]

yeah daze is removed after dmg calculation so that daze still counts for origination.

[surreal hazel]

Huh. Backburner skull flourish is crazy then since the blast happens after you pass through

Cyro pounder, it's funny that its genuinly better than room temperature, but it's still bad

Well. Outclassed, 50% more boom is no joke

But rude awakening is just easier, more and no cooldown

[formal pulsar]

even removing back burner bug from equation, cryo pounder is legit one of the worst blast duos. it deals FAR less dmg than rude or chain reaction and it has uptime of 2s every 12s.

[surreal hazel]

Especially on stamp rush

[willow phoenix]

it's honestly so bad why did they even remove Room Temperature for this lol. At least with Room Temperature you can achieve perma freeze which also works well other Dem boons like Hail Storm and Winter Harvest

[surreal hazel]

It should be easy to make a thematic boon

Quenching hot steel by rapidly cooling it is a real thing

Like. Freezing glowing enemies shattters enemies under 20%hp

But that's just harvest. Hrm

[willow phoenix]

time to downgrade winter harvest to heph dem duo

[surreal hazel]

Or like. Bonus weapon damage when blasts are on cooldown

Or heck. Move premium service there because demeter already has cherished heirloom

Make heph upgrade all of your hammers instead

[glass shell]

"Heard that brat icarus is making the hammers now, no wonder they're all rubbish let me give it a crack"

[surreal hazel]

Actually most rank 2s are kinda crap

[formal pulsar]

r2 hammer should bare minimun double up the hammer effect. like take the number and 2x it. they are so rare and they should feel like something

[surreal hazel]

Even then

[glass shell]

shoutout to getting 10% movespeed on furious whirlwind

[surreal hazel]

Most of the benefit of a hammer isn't the greentext number

It's the other nonscaling effect

Although apparently rapid thrasher is -80% function time!?

[civic ocean]

I think it’s okay for the Demeter Heph duo that works with Arctic Ring to be much less powerful than the others because an upside of the duo is that you get Freeze with it

[surreal hazel]

But that far behind?

[civic ocean]

Like maybe it can go to 75% or whatever

But I am also of the opinion that with the current state of Heph blasts that both Rude Awakening and Chain Reaction are like way too strong

[glass shell]

Do you believe that in the context of backburner still working?

Like don't take backburner -is heph still overtuned to you?

[brazen ore]

counterpoint: none of those other duos are named Cryo Pounder

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think so - they’re not like egregious or anything but I think it is pretty crazy to he able to get like 2.5k damage or so on a very short cd and every time I end up taking blasts on weapons I didn’t intend to they always way overperform for me atm

[surreal hazel]

Chain reaction is a boss killer. Oddly grand caldera seems more useful otherwise

[glass shell]

I only get like 2.5k w backstabs tbh

[surreal hazel]

Most enemies don't need two blasts

[glass shell]

Maybe my builds are just ass but with duos im only hitting the like 1500 range

[civic ocean]

Well it hits two enemies if they’re close

[civic ocean]

Im trying to remember I think it was Supay special no back burner but both duos origination furies

So it was 1440x2

[surreal hazel]

True. Seems hilariously overkill. But maybe that's the balancing factor

[glass shell]

ah you were talking 2.5k after the double

yeah that tracks then and i think its fine in that context

its only with the bugged backburner crits and stuff im like "damn"

[civic ocean]

I think its a little too easy but like at this point I am kinda like whatever

[glass shell]

but even then with how much investment it needs on non persephone aspects... im still vaguely ok with it sorta

[civic ocean]

Let it ride man heck it

[glass shell]

finally east is on the fun side of history

[surreal hazel]

Give cyro pounder its old functionality as well?

Like, on top

[civic ocean]

I guess so idk like I think cryo pounder is contextually fine because Demeter is so strong with heph anyways

[glass shell]

im down for cryo pounder to be demeter legendary

[civic ocean]

I kinda like winter harvest tho

[surreal hazel]

Whuh?

[glass shell]

i liked it more when it had a justifiable use case vs prom as a bug

[surreal hazel]

Oh I see.

[glass shell]

i still like dem legendary in theory but man is it a big ask to get online

[civic ocean]

It still skips final phase eris right

[glass shell]

yea

well. non rivals. I don't think eris unrivaled ahs the same threshhold?

[civic ocean]

I actually had a bug with it against prom where the kill cutscene played but prom didnt die

[formal pulsar]

is it tho? demeter has no global damage to help blasts beside cryo. I am not asking to buff cryo with readjusting rude but demeter is not really super good combo with heph

[glass shell]

yeah its not a bug, thats intended as of the recent patch

[surreal hazel]

Dem is at least not as fussy as some

[glass shell]

Rivals prom "resists" demeter legendary now because they chose not to fix the bug that made it delete heracles :^)

[surreal hazel]

Or her prerequisites are actually good boons

[formal pulsar]

i simply think they ought to make cryo work with thawed and adjust the numbers maybe. and tune down rude a bit

to diversify heph builds so it is not always heph -> apollo -> hestia

[civic ocean]

Oh idk about that like I think Arctic Ring and Arctic Gale are amazing ward strippers for the blasts and also keep you safe while it recharges

I think what makes the most sense is probably for Cryo pounder to use the Cold status from Gales instead of the Freeze status

[glass shell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ1-WVkiocI

actually the dumbest change if it wasn't just a quick bandaid fix cause they couldn't fix it ending rivals early

HOPEFULLY 1.0 reverts this with a real bugfix

[surreal hazel]

In h1 you killed them in either order so it was okay

Thr champions, that is

[toxic heart]

You still can

You can still kill Prommy before Heracles and it works

[surreal hazel]

I mean killed them. So winter harvest had no bug to trigger

[civic ocean]

Yeah prom doesnt die right he just sit there

[surreal hazel]

Prom goes to minimum hp and waits for herecles to die

[civic ocean]

I actually think its would be both a bugfix for this and a neat change to the fight if they made it harder in other ways but the fight always ends if you kill Prometheus

Makes the player choose between a faster and less safe fight and a longer safer one

[surreal hazel]

Not sure I agree

[glass shell]

I.... vaguely agree. But only if they shifted the health toward prom more and heracles down more

Which im not sure does heracles justice at that point if he only has like 15k hp

I thought the interaction was kinda neat tbh

[civic ocean]

Yeah they could do that or like make heracles more damaging or have a more difficult to avoid moveset

[surreal hazel]

How tough are they?

[formal pulsar]

but that applies for every build that has arctic ring not just blasts. freeze is always nice in every build but you can do a lot with the basic cast. and about wards, but you have limited gods and boons to pick and if i were to pick best heph gods, I would say heph, apollo, hestia, and either hera or aphro.

you already have a lot of defense from daze and uncanny fortitude and trusty shield.

[glass shell]

iirc they both have like 32 / 34 k

herc has 2k less than prom post balance patch

[surreal hazel]

Tougher than typhon when combined, yeesh

[formal pulsar]

i hate that prom fight doesnt end right away. i run up the tiemr a couple of times and it is infuriating how you take dmg while they slowly fly off after you kill them. there is like 2s delay between killing them and the fight ending

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think an important point is that you can’t always pick right like if you have 300 gold in a midshop in erebus are you avoiding Demeter because she’s not one of those four you mentioned? Like ideally yeah my Persephone run is heph aph apollo hestia but I am happy to play the run with demeter and ares as well

Still tho it can be buffed, like 75% damage and work off of gales or keep the damage, work off of gales, and have all projectiles destroyed when the blasts go off or smth

[formal pulsar]

I agree with that. you never say no to demeter ofc and it would be nice to have something else work with gales besides tropical cyclones.

[civic ocean]

Chat what do we think about the Demeter Poseidon duo being about healing

Would it be too cheesy for high fear? I was thinking like:

Bountiful Crop - requires a Poseidon core, Demeter Core, and Plentiful Forage/Buried Treasure

Your healing is increased by 25% this night, and cannot be lowered by any other effects

Smth like that maybe

[formal pulsar]

their current one is ... the +8 poms, right?

[civic ocean]

Yes +8 on poms across all cores

[supple crown]

Cannot be lowered- will it get effected by scar 3?

[civic ocean]

Presumably no, which is the contentous part

[glass shell]

Welcome to literally every complaint i have about self destruct enemies in the game such as hippos

[supple crown]

Ouhh

[glass shell]

the fact we need to wait for animations to complete instead of just instantly progressing is so gd annoying

[glass shell]

If it doesn't affect scars 3 it better be a HELL of a lot stronger than 25%

[civic ocean]

It would, yeah

[glass shell]

then honestly its probably fine? I want them to make circe additive too tbh

Has a minor issue about being "balanced around scars" though

[civic ocean]

25% more healing is a lot right

[glass shell]

Contextual

1 extra healing on wayward sons is nothing

25% extra healing on food is a lot

pretty sure it does nothing for nergal etc cause it would always round down

[civic ocean]

It would also be a lot on like Poseidon Moon Water and Plentiful Forage

[formal pulsar]

tbh I dont like duos aimed directly to counter a specific vow effects like scars

[glass shell]

mmm are you doing additive math or something?

Cause like.... thats only 10>12% healing

maybe 13% if 12.5 rounds up

even at heroic its only 4% extra healing

25% is piss poor for most things in the game unless it has a high flat number

aka food or like death defiances

[civic ocean]

Well it all adds up right like 1 more every floor on wayward 4 more from every forage more from every fountain more from every food, moon water, etc

[glass shell]

Like old herbal remedy gets away with 25% because its also a bulk heal instantly and thats what your taking it for

a just "25% more healing" doesn't do much contextually but it does add up over time

Would need to be like 50% or more for me to look at it and go "this doesn't suck" without scars bypass. but for the 99% of players who won't activate scars 3.... who is taking this at 25 %and being happy?

It doesn't even add a single hp to nergal healing for instance

[civic ocean]

Could be higher then ig idk I would just look at it and go sick my healing is even better

[glass shell]

Moon water already is functionally immortality so the duo just makes you use moon water slightly less often

25% extra healing on a fountain is nice its just narc vial though

how much do fountains even heal for, 50%?

[civic ocean]

idk a fountain has not healed me on a run in over a year

[formal pulsar]

i mean you are the scars 3 enjoyer

[supple crown]

[civic ocean]

it used to be so fraudulent

[glass shell]

yeah PF charity bottle and other things made scars 3 so fake lmao

[civic ocean]

yeah

[glass shell]

now its actually dangerous and i am not interested unless i really wanna push higher

[formal pulsar]

plentiful forage my beloved

[glass shell]

or i play nergal i guess. yall saw that stupid ass post right?

[civic ocean]

yeah now its pretty hard to deal with though it did put me onto huge max hp Death Mutual Destruction builds

[glass shell]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229836992829984830/1401690270780625029/Moments-Desktop-clip-from-Aug-04-2025.mp4?ex=6891da0a&is=6890888a&hm=16adec24afd20306529e444329d4a94fc57ee881ab3d834beaf7835182f5e0df&

[formal pulsar]

i never fished as much as last patch when picking fish healed on high fear

[glass shell]

just use nightbloom 4head

[civic ocean]

you cant build charge on the summon right

[glass shell]

idk let me test if it requires the charm or not

[civic ocean]

if you can build charge on the summon then you full heal after every boss

[night lotus]

So whats like the best way to play the skull?

[glass shell]

Mel skull? picking another weapon

[night lotus]

I KNOW.

[civic ocean]

Mel Skull rn I mostly just do Aresmaxxing

[night lotus]

The persephone aspect looks cool tbh

I been trying to unlock the hidden one
For the past 6 runs ive had

[glass shell]

can't build charge on reg night bloom but you can heal off of it if its alive

same for charmed enemy

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's kinda niche then but still useful

[glass shell]

mostly a mourning fields tech cause theres always another enemy

to help gain charge or charm with the duo

[desert shell]

Can heph cool downs go below 1 sec or should I not bother pomming at that point?

[glass shell]

you physically cannot pom below 2 seconds

You can't even get to 1 second with the duo, only 1.4. But the tooltip wasn't designed to go into decimals so it just rounds down.

but functionally its a 1.4 second cd at 2 seconds + the duo

[formal pulsar]

min cd is 1.48 seconds and thats with seismic servo duo and they will not show up in pom selection menu when they reach 2s

[vague eagle]

Questions about the Black Fleece.

1. Is the dmg boost a one-time bonus, or does it stack every 250 dmg taken?
2. Does the effect persist after I take off the keepsake?

[median anvil]

1. one time bonus
2. pretty sure it goes away?

[vague eagle]

Dang I was hoping it stacks. Especially since it tracks how much dmg you've taken

Though incidentally I used that to track my health after Dionysus hid my health from me just now

[surreal hazel]

Welp. I think I took king's ransom to its very silly limits

[sage flame]

always a very silly boon

[glass bone]

Done a few more 50 Fear attempts earlier today, and failed again at Phase 3 Chronos. I still want to try 50 Fear this way (to not make all the other bosses so much harder). Figured to ask about my current strategy for this. I am using Aspect of Circe with Toula, and aiming for the general list below to clear the Underworld run;
Tidal Ring -> Winner’s Circle / Geyser Spout / Lucid Gain -> Nitro Boost / Demeter Attack/Special -> Hestia Attack/Special + Scalding Vapor.
Keepsake Order; Poseidon Keepsake -> Selene Keepsake (if I get Apollo or a good Hex) / Apollo Keepsake (if I don’t get Apollo) / Gorgon Amulet (if I use all death defiances to Rival Hecate) -> Gorgon Amulet (if not chosen; deliberate death defiance removal at Scylla to save time and get Replenished Faith for Rival Chronos) -> Knuckle Bones / Pin.
Hex and Hades boon aims; Dark Side (for Chronos) / Total Eclipse (if I get Hestia and Selene before Scylla); Unseen Ire / Deep Dissent (I prefer Unseen Ire due to me struggling way more in Phase 2 and 3 than 1).
I’ve gone through about 10 runs thus far that haven’t been reset for Tidal Ring rolls. Is this strategy unoptimal?

[uneven palm]

Is this rivals 4?

[glass bone]

Yes.

[night lotus]

Hey is it just me or do enemies spawn slower in the rift of Thelassy?

[uneven palm]

K. Tidal Ring good but for this I think Storm or Smolder or Anvil might be better here? Especially if you can sic Toula on em and bossing is your wall. I think either of those might give more damage overall

[glass bone]

Storm and Smolder I presume would not use Winner’s Circle in this case, right?

[uneven palm]

No. But that frees up Hermes for “stay alive” stuff like Nitro or Hard Target

And chronos isn’t often staying put for omega casts anyway

As much as I am a fan of winners circle + spout generally

[glass bone]

So no Winner’s Circle, replace it with just Storm / Smolder Ring. I’ll go give a go when I get the chance.

[stable herald]

people like Hard Target? I avoid that and Enfeeblement of Cowards like the plague, slower projectiles may be easier to dodge but they're also in my way for longer

[glass shell]

It doesn't extend their duration though?

I mean i guess in the sense that you can run into them cause they might be where you WANT to be?

[stable herald]

it makes them move slower, ergo they're in my way for longer

[glass shell]

i suppose, i never see that an issue though

I miss original hard target bricking charybdis

[spring holly]

Man the rival chronos fight is way harder than the Typhon

[glass shell]

thats because typhon is a joke and the rivals fight did nothing to actually make it challenging by any means

other than extend the timer cause chronos yaps without pausing it

[spring holly]

Yeah typhon isn't that hard. He hits like a truck and sometimes his tail can catch me off guard but the fight itself is easy

Ok but what's harder? EM Hades or Rival Chronos

[glass shell]

Hades probably. Chronos P3 is just learning to not fight him until its "your turn" hades has some cancer.

[spring holly]

Yeah I realized that pretty quickly when I first got to stage 3 Chrony. I was doing a Moros build and enployed hit and run tactics

[barren marsh]

I beat rival chronos 1st try cause I had a dodge build

[glass bone]

Chronos I feel has a high learning curve. One example of this is the Phase 2 “anti-cheese time bubble”

[digital juniper]

re: chaos boons

does +special damage include ospecial?

[barren marsh]

honestly rival typhon felt significantly harder than chronos

[glass shell]

read what it says

If it says your special, only regular

If it says specialS, both.

pretty sure chaos only says specials, not special.

[digital juniper]

ahh, i was not aware of the difference there, as with some boons it does have the omega symbol too. thanks for the clarification!

[surreal hazel]

Stack both. Enemies just can't shoot you.

They multiply together, so you're looking at 25% projectile speed and range

[restive jolt]

A good build for Aspect of Anubis?

[glass bone]

There’s like… 6 setups to mix and match.
Attack: Zeus (Attack goes first so Special triggers Blitz), Hestia (Scorch Stacking), Poseidon (waves everywhere).
Special: Apollo (Good damage and added range), Aphrodite (Best damage at the cost of range), Hera (least certain of this one, but I saw it floating around I think, and the concept is sound).
My personal preference from there is probably Hestia or Demeter cast to work with Thermal Dynamics or just to stun them in place / Freezer Burn I guess.
Also, I strongly recommend Cardio Gain since it works with Anubis Attack now

Hammers…
I believe Rapid Thrasher works with Anubis. It allows to start the run and gun playstyle faster and safer. Also, there’s dual and rapid moonshot for the Special Spam focus.

If you use Hestia as a main damage dealer, then Gale in general or Frinos for Rival Hecate probably will be the best familiar since Scorch doesn’t benefit from Crit chance / damage. Otherwise, Raki’s on the table

[restive jolt]

Thank you!

[cerulean panther]

Can Poseidon waves backstab?

[glass shell]

good question, don't have the ability to play right now but im gonna say "no"

[spiral wadi]

technically if ur standing really close to an enemy, janky things happen where waves can be directed to be in front of the enemy being splashed, so maybe

plus since pan waves can technically proc from behind from the tracking aspect it should be possible

[spiral wadi]

this is also the case where sometimes erebus trees will just not go the direction you want them to go because of course they won't 💀

[cerulean panther]

Was having some Anubis pulses trigger some very high damage waves, didn't think I had enough globals without Back Burner.

[surreal hazel]

Waves only happen once per tick no matter how many get hit, right?

From anubis

[willow phoenix]

all enemies seem to proc waves from what I'm seeing

[surreal hazel]

Damn

[brave dove]

uh, did he get giga nerfed in patch 11?

because his final phase pre-babality was generally agreed to be completely insane before that

I need to finish rogue trader so I can start grinding runs again...

[surreal hazel]

It got made more predictable

Particularly the vine whips

[tall notch]

low fear gamers can just dps race him to be honest

the strat of "get an absolutely nuts build and tank every hit from Typhon" is surprisingly effective

[brave dove]

while true I don't think that makes the fight a joke you can do that to unrivaled chronos too

[tall notch]

does typhon have any oneshot mechanics?

[brave dove]

the exact same one yes

and it's harder to avoid

[tall notch]

o

is that a rivals thing? because without rivals ive never seen it

[brave dove]

yeah

[tall notch]

and ive not done rivals typhon to this day

i was talking about regular typhon in terms of vulnerability to being dps raced

i only killed rivals prom once too

[brave dove]

oh yeah I'm talking about unrivaled typhon 'cause well

[tall notch]

to do the unlock

[brave dove]

the rivals fight did nothing to actually make it challenging by any means
p1.4 on rivals is probably the single most hectic bit of gameplay in the entirety of h2

[tall notch]

o

[median anvil]

it's the most hectic thing even without vow of rivals

rivals just cranks it up to an insane degree

[glass shell]

kinda, but not to an impactful amount

The last phase was always, at least to me, an annoyance not actually "Hard"

Like im pretty sure regular chronos phase 1 or 2 is "Harder" than pre nerf babality

[brave dove]

I don't mean babality, I mean the phase before babality

which if you found 'not hard' you are simply constructed differently and should make a guide video for literally everyone else please

[glass shell]

Oh then yeah that is the hardest part of the fight, but i still would call it more or less regular typhon difficulty

I mean what is there to make a guide about?

[brave dove]

'cause the general agreement in patch 10 was that you just kinda cried

how to avoid the damage while still having attack windows? Like every other boss guide?

[glass shell]

..... but its regular typhon stuff?

idk hug face mash m1 watch the tentacles that are new as of unseen patch dash backwards after they attack the middle of the room dash forward after they spin

chronos is a non factor for 80% of the fight emoting in the corner of the room with useless stuff

only really matters when he decides to orb > dash at me

[brave dove]

I mean, you also have up to 3-4 lingering aoes...

3-4 moves with lingering aoes to be clear four tornadoes is one of those

[glass shell]

succ and shoot? useless

Scythe? honestly i had trouble with this until i learned you dash at him, not away

i can't even remember what else he does

beyond the dash with orbs

i honestly can't say i have changed a single meaningful thing from regular typhon to unrivaled, beyond the basekit tentacle change

https://tenor.com/view/elio-lizard-button-gif-10528652411096742370

literally me sitting on his face mashing m1 for 80% of the fight

[tall notch]

how do you actually fight regular typhon? from the point where he makes tornadoes i just start dps racing and hoping for the best

(i only beat him like 2 or 3 times in total, if you couldnt tell)

[brave dove]

regular typhon is pretty ez you're basically constantly trying to bait the headslam so you can punish it

[floral void]

As a strength enjoyer I support this and face tank everything you'll shrug it off

[glass shell]

depends on tornado pathing RNG, if they just sit in the back of the room you have free dps

if they hug his face well its his turn to play the game

unless you are ranged

[glass shell]

yeah its the exact same here though?

he still is forced to do the slam every 2-3 attacks depending on animation time and what he did before

(as long as you are underneath him)

[brave dove]

I don't. I don't know what I said??

[glass shell]

ctrl z

[brave dove]

yeah I've done that and I'm looking at it again and I still see nothing

[glass shell]

🤷‍♂️

like the only thing i would consider cancer in rivals typhon is whatever makes the bullet hell sperms appear cause i still don't know - but he does the same on non rivals

99% of the time its hug face > attack > dash back > dash back in

Occasionally dodge chronos

Occasionally dodge 3rd tentacle wave

i honestly thing chronos needs to do more like summon time rifts on the ground or something cause he just... exists

[brave dove]

just to double check I've been assuming so but are you playing with frenzy 2 on?

[glass shell]

always frenzy 2 always hordes

haven't turned those off in over a year. Haven't been lower than like 38 fear since warsong

[brave dove]

yeah I reiterate please do a frenzy 2 near-hitless video guide for us that isn't 'just do a billion damage in 5 seconds'

[glass shell]

"near hitless" ok well i never said that

i get hit i just tend to eat it

[brave dove]

I mean he hits for three figures with pain on

[tall notch]

see thats why i said low fear people just chill and tank the hits

[brave dove]

it's kinda gotta be near-hitless without a ridiculous tonk build :p

[sly plaza]

Just do more damage 😌

Can’t take pain amped damage if he’s dead fr

[glass shell]

thats my secret cap, i play with like pain 2 at most

[brave dove]

even with just pain 2!

[sly plaza]

I play with no pain because I hate that vow atm

[glass shell]

idk in my experience i only take like 100-300 damage from typhon - for you antler people out there thats gg but its enough to where if i enter typhon with even 1 dd at full hp its pretty free

[brave dove]

like I've taken hundreds of damage in like five seconds in that phase from losing my bearings briefly

[sly plaza]

Stupid pain amped Rival Prom. Stinky fight

[tall notch]

would you say turning that vow on makes runs an absolute pain?

[glass shell]

Honestly thinking about it tend to go the first like 70% of the fight without much damage until the aforementioned phase then i start taking all the damage like you mention here

[brave dove]

yeah that's also my experience

[sly plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/toby-cry-phone-spider-man-cry-phone-spider-man-phone-toby-phone-gif-12875606672124040541

[brave dove]

I can hitless up to that point usually, maybe take a few knocks in the time bubbles bit and then that hits and I just start bleeding out quickly

[tall notch]

https://tenor.com/view/verso-expedition-33-clair-obscur-dance-gif-15248492407726862297

[glass shell]

Like i once literally lost 300hp in a combo meal from chronos + tentacle + ground tentacle + typhon at the same time for like 250

[sly plaza]

Ngl maybe I should just start running antler. Everything kills me anyway, might as well amp my damage in the final region

[brave dove]

oh good someone we can guilt-free use as bait

[tall notch]

i never played act 3 of e33 because my gamepass expired but i actually liked him

does you being a hater have to do with stuff i havent seen yet? or did you hate him earlier too

[brave dove]

act 3 is like 70% of why I hate him but I never liked him

[sly plaza]

Verso hate is either because people liked Gustav more and because Verso needs more investment to be good or you got to act 3

[brave dove]

no it's also because he's a slimeball from the start and the game only half-recognises that

it will simultaneously validate you hating him from the start while also still thinking he's really cool it's a huge part of why I came away from the game hating it

[sly plaza]

Maelle is way to cool with a certain act 3 reveal as well if you max their relationship

Like WAAAAAY to cool about it. I would have crashed TF out

[brave dove]

||lune and sciel having sex with him in act 3 drove me actually insane he's such a goddamn self-insert||

[glass bone]

I have finally beaten 50 Fear folks! And I’ve done it against Frenzy 2 Rival Chronos.

[tall notch]

aight ima peace out because i do wanna eventually play act 3

[brave dove]

eyy nice!

[sly plaza]

Let’s GOOO

[glass bone]

I will admit, I did have to go through 9 Death Defiances (4 from Renewed Faith + Pin, and 4 deliberately spent at Scylla), but a win is a win.

[supple crown]

Not counting Arcana cards and DD/Strength which defensive familiar is better? Frinos, Gale, Toula?

[tall notch]

gale

[sly plaza]

It was 50 Fear. Absolutely no shame in that

[supple crown]

Ayeee

[tall notch]

if you want pure defence then gale is just so good

[glass shell]

Defensive

Toula

[tall notch]

tbf that dd is now 80 hp that is defensive if you ask me

[glass shell]

MF toula is the offensive pet

[supple crown]

I see- well It was if without Strength or DD

[sly plaza]

How? Raki provides crit 😭

[glass bone]

Something something, good offence = good defense.

[tall notch]

she actually hits hard right now, Toula got significant buffs

though I wonder if she scales into later regions? does global damage affect her?

[glass bone]

Raki is the Player Offensive pet, Toula is the Offensive pet.

[sly plaza]

I’m gonna be real. I’ve forgotten she exists lowkey because I keep running strength

[glass shell]

In theory, toula is the autonomous combat pet that is in combat without you once activated

Rakis enhances your damage, which can be better for a lot of builds but you aren't relying on raki alone to do anything really except pick of wards sometimes or kill spindles

[tall notch]

I want to click Toula on Eos but then I end up missing Hecuba too much

[glass bone]

I’m hoping within the next few days, I can publish the video attempt. I say days, since I want to make artwork depicting the final battle to make it more interesting (for the thumbnail), since there’s no commentary.

[glass shell]

Toula as of unseen patch 12

Attacks 10 times
Attack no longer can miss(unless target is invuln/clone like hecate)
Can change target
No longer falls asleep after killing 1 unit
Has a decent DD at 80hp

But the fact she spawns in on a delay and at the room start is what kills her

[tall notch]

remember to post it in #fan-works

the art i mean, i dont think you can post videos there?

[brave dove]

my thumbnail work is just taking a h2 splashart and the snipping tool and like 10 minutes-

[tall notch]

I just let youtube pick my thumbnails

[supple crown]

Yeah a lot of time I had to dash back to "get her" at the start of the room

and took damage because of it

[glass shell]

Anyway going back to this question

In theory gale is the ultimate defensive pet. In actuality unless you are literally "that guy" post unseen update without mint condition - you aren't saving 3/3 gale hits for bosses - let alone taking hits only every 30 seconds. The 6% dodge is still nice though

So i honestly lean frinos.

[tall notch]

how do people activate Toula during rivals sirens? she'll just lie down in the middle and I can't get to her safely

[glass shell]

thats the neat part. we don't

too much bullet hell for me to look for the orange sleepy idiot

[brave dove]

saving gale hits for the final boss is often not too bad tbf

[supple crown]

I see I see thanks for the input

[tall notch]

thanks pronto, very helpful advice

[glass shell]

plus when i watched back my last time i took toula in underworld the dumbass cat actually kept attacking scylla which got blocked by shell

[brave dove]

like hitless tart is not terribly tricky most of the time, particularly if you have a snow queen backing you up

[tall notch]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-review-eepy-kitty-sleepy-cat-sleepy-kitty-gif-15376148450942612603

[brave dove]

and even 2/3 hits is v. valuable

the actual issue with gale is that she antisynergises with trusty shield

[tall notch]

and with the new mint condition

[glass shell]

Its probably because im not a scars 3 gamer so im too complacent with room damage

[brave dove]

yeah security system too

[glass shell]

so i "waste" gale hits i shouldn't and just get value from frinos instead

[brave dove]

I don't scars 3 much but broadly you can just blow through tart a lot of the time

[supple crown]

Right- I was REALLY hoping it would break the shield first but nope sadly

[tall notch]

tart is free most of the time but sometimes it just throws the most evil room in existence at you

[brave dove]

I once had a like fifty second room where it just kept. spawning. numbskulls and bags.

[glass shell]

we love goldbags

my favorite room is the small square with 2 cogs or whatever that spawns literally 50 goldbags

[tall notch]

maybe i need to watch boated's 62 because he is praising patch 11 toula

[glass shell]

toula is actually amazing, when you activate her

issue is genuinely such a god damn slog to double back OR afk for 2 seconds at the start of each room

You can see how he has to run back every time, or did a few days ago when he had toul ain that one video

think it was a circe video

[glass bone]

If that were to be changed, what else would need to be for familiars?

Or would it be then a perfect system? (A magic familiar, 2 Offensive familiars, 2 Defensive)

[glass shell]

In a vaccum i think if nothing were to change i think the system is already "Good enough" with the newest changes

There are ideal me changes i would want, like hecuba not being worthless in combat with a bigger bark that maybe did damage/stunned bosses, or gale getting some QOL changes like priority below armor

I think the "perfect" pets are current frinos and raki, raki could probably stand to activate prereq and benefit from success rate again, i dunno why it was such a big deal he did in the first place

Then theres the wishful thinking changes where they should have activatable abilities like legendary keepsakes in h1

[surreal hazel]

That LT button going strangely unused

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925113924855140417/1402276145638146208/2025082.JPG?ex=689352ee&is=6892016e&hm=3702634b624af43cdcde458319da99231a3087281d5d1415fb208d32025378d7& how did i do vs typhon? barely even got hit 🔥

@brave dove typhon is ez, i confirm 💯

[brave dove]

[tall notch]

(this is pain 0 rivals 2 btw)

[quasi mica]

any damage in a run was an expertly calculated trade so long as you win

if anything taking damage is more optimal than not because it means you're not wasting your HP

[civic ocean]

Playing my thessaly encounters like a baboon to prime Mutual Destruction for Eris true

[quasi mica]

any idiot can beat the game by just not taking damage. it takes a real gamer to get hit by both swings of typhon's tongue and still win

[glass bone]

This is accurate. I only won my first 50 Fear run because I deliberately got hurt in Scylla to get more potent Death Defiances. It pays to “be bad”.

What would be very fun is to have it be exact. 1 HP left against Rival bosses.

[quasi mica]

i really do wish backstab effects did anything to typhon though. like even just a pity fraction of your bonus applied to it unconditionally or something

[glass bone]

Hmmm… what if it was in the exact center of Typhon? Similar to Spy from TF2, it be a “face stab”, but more specifically Melinoe stabbing Typhon’s eye.

[quasi mica]

it could even be an incantation so the player is aware that's what they need to do

[uneven palm]

I did that on my last 50 shiva lol

[glass shell]

I'd personally prefer something on the sides

just putting it center mass at his face is literally the default typhon strat and the equivalent of saying "mel blades gets double damage vs typhon"

which.... as a mel blades enjoyer i'd welcome it but its also incredibly questionable.

[glass bone]

Just figured to throw out the idea. Wasn’t certain if the exact spot for blades is at the center or the sides.

[glass shell]

personally i'd prefer a minor redesign to the arena adding platforms to the left/right of where typhon is so we could actually yknow.... backstab him

then the hand sweep that happens in some of the earlier regular rooms can be the attacks for players sitting thetre

https://imgur.com/XlMtB4l really crappy mspaint representation

[dapper elbow]

So it looks like persofone skull benifts form heph blast effects due to how fast the omega special changes and also having a chance to have the cooldown of the blast effect for attack be at a low cooldown right at the start

[pure grove]

mom skull works on any olympian damage, so if you stick poseidon on attack for some reason, it also charges up really fast

[undone tapir]

anyone know if super nova casts increase to the full stated size in the boon description when paired w winners circle, if the rate of radius increase stays the same as if the cast was the full 3 seconds long, or some other thing

[spiral wadi]

iirc cast size increase should also speed up with winner's circle

[undone tapir]

okay interesting, i ask since it didn't feel like that was happening and it felt like it'd be really obvious if it was

[spiral wadi]

could've sworn it did but i might have to check again later to confirm lol

[undone tapir]

itd be nice if we had a small boon testing lab w skelly

[spiral wadi]

epilogue where we get gods into the training grounds

[undone tapir]

yeah at minimum itd have to be some story thing

[glass bone]

Would that include everyone? (E.g. Arachne, Athena, Dionysius, etc.)

I feel like such a thing should exist too. Not sure how that would be implemented story wise tho

[undone tapir]

in my head id draw the line at npcs/athena

feels arbitrary but mostly id want the lab for testing the core of a build built through the god duos/legendaries + hermes

• hammers

[spiral wadi]

does hermes' nectar from shrine count towards the +1 random pom

[cerulean panther]

No.

[spiral wadi]

dam

[tough pasture]

Friends, I've come to the disappointing conclusion that I don't know how to play medea aspect well. The speedrunners aren't using the omega special like I am. They're using normal special and that has been a challenge for me. (Does someone have any tips other than "git gud" for playing medea? Thanks in advance.)

Also, I don't understand why certain hexes get a godsent and others don't.

[spiral wadi]

all hexes can be godsent, you just need to own at least one boon from the corresponding god for that specific hex at some point

[formal pulsar]

Press attack 1 time and then press special while looking at enemy and then watch enemy go boom.

Red already answered your hex question.

[uneven palm]

The godsents are:

• Dark Side: Aphrodite
• Lunar Ray: Apollo
• Sky Fall: Ares
• Phase shift: Demeter
• Wolf Howl: Heph
• Night Bloom: Hera
• Total Eclipse: Hestia
• Moon Water: Poseidon
• Twilight Curse: Zeus

[willow phoenix]

All hexes have their own corresponding god for godsent, you need to have a boon from that god to be able to get godsents before or after getting the hex. It's also possible to only have the olympian keepsake before getting the hex

[uneven palm]

Medea is a little bit a get good aspect tbh. It strongly rewards your knowledge of enemy movements and patterns so you know when it’s safe to ram in.

[junior trail]

does double strike affect twilight curse godsent

[willow phoenix]

Yes

I did a ransom run for Zeus Godsent spam and it was great

Until Typhon where it just doesn't work lol

[tough pasture]

oh...so there's one olympian associated with each hex? Got it.

[tough pasture]

I see. Good to know.

[spiral wadi]

yup, iirc the fated list should contain them? not 100% sure

the book prob does

[willow phoenix]

You can check the book of shadows

On Selene's page

[elfin forge]

bruh selene's page having 34 pages is a bit ridiculous

so Selene has 101 things

[glass shell]

at least its in order now unlike previous patches

and some of the things are reprints just slightly adjusted to spawn on a specific hex

[willow phoenix]

@sterile portal
#h2-feedback message
It already does lol
The bonus path of stars upgrade stay after you unequip it if you haven't used it

[sterile portal]

Are you sure? I don’t think so

[willow phoenix]

I just did a run like yesterday with moon beam first

And only got path of stars in oceanus

[sterile portal]

Hmmm I’ll delete and try tomorrow and repost if it doesn’t work

[civic ocean]

Really trying to sell people on the sky fall godsent being the Pants of Ares

[undone tapir]

sunny disposition doesn't synergize with godsent darkside actual catastrophe

[civic ocean]

Thats good feedback tbh

That should be a thing for sure

[glass shell]

make all keepsakes permanent 🗣️

that way it can show in the boon log too

[willow phoenix]

Does it? I could swear it increased the total dps lol. It's a bit hard to see though

[dreamy thicket]

Does taking an onion add the god to pool if they're not in it yet?

[glass shell]

no

[undone tapir]

im pretty sure it doesn't, the hex performed extremely similarly before and after i picked up SD

on typhon i was getting to the same 7-8k range before the end of the hex as when id done a run without SD