h2-builds-and-combat

[uneven palm]

Tbh you’ll get way more power with control over your build (ie rolls and cash)

[strange crown]

oh yeah no I dont mean taking the whole corner I like to work with what I get

just realized I could get free queen if I take Champs

[uneven palm]

Try it out, see if you like it.

[forest hinge]

why do they keep nerfing Supay?

[void cargo]

It didn't get nerfed. Added another regular orb to the special but made some a bit less powerful

The aspect is still very very good

[forest hinge]

i guess i specifically mean the Rush Boon dmg, it keeps going down with each patch

[void cargo]

Oh that makes a bit more sense.

I mean in a way the aspect is already pretty solid, and while this is a nerf, it doesn't fundamentally make the aspect much less desirable.

I find how Supay is now it's still overall a much better choice than some other aspects. Just my thoughts

[glass shell]

2 balls but 75% less damage on both of them, net 20 damage vs previous 40

20% less rush damage AND rush-adjacent boons no longer work

attacks/specials don't stagger

Yeah its an objective nerf homie

[void cargo]

I did say it wasnt nerfed but the aspect is not by any means in the bottom half of aspects in terms of viability and power. I guess that's what I more meant

[glass shell]

ihttps://imgur.com/oAdd1jR

[void cargo]

Sorry. It's late here, I get lost in my own words a bit. Hopefully that makes sense now

[glass shell]

i mean fair if thats the take, its certainly not the worst aspect in the game

or close to it

but it absolutely was toned down further for some reason

[void cargo]

Like, it's not on the level of Pan nerf, for example. Where it took the aspect from top half aspect to a bottom half aspect

[void cargo]

I guess it did because even now it's one of the aspects that can clear 32F surface with more reliability than others.

[fluid onyx]

blast buffs! is blast any good now? or even any medicore. is it better than bad basically

[glass shell]

better than bad, but i gotta play around with it more. heph sprint does a surpising amount of damage but the cd on it is still eugh

[glass bone]

How’s Eos?

[glass shell]

the real neat part is that with the duo boon you can get blasts below 2seconds now, which is neat

granted its like 1.49 which is basically still 2.... but its less than 2

[void cargo]

clang

[forest hinge]

is Hestia Rush boon still the go-to for Supay?

[uncut zealot]

Can someone explain how Vow of Denial had Aphrodite only offer Shared Wealth (+90g) in Olympus?

[copper basin]

Eos is still buggy with the Apollo legendary. It takes specials away from Mel but I'm not sure if Apollo's legendary is supposed to produce 2 Daybreakers or it's supposed to make the Daybreaker pulse twice but only one Daybreaker is produced as opposed to before the patch today when there were a bunch of Daybreakers all over the screen lol

[forest hinge]

i believe that's because Denial has cut all possible Aphrodite boons from her boon-pool, thus the only thing left is the Wealth Offering, which is just like the game's "pity" boon cause it has nothing else to give you.

[void cargo]

What do you mean? Wealth offering only appears if you run out of a gods boon.

Unless there is something I'm missing, it means that Aphrodite appeared to you one too many times on the run

[uncut zealot]

Woof, okay I didn't realize it cuts 2 boons PER boon choice from Aphrodite. Yikes.

"After you choose a Boon, 2 unpicked blessings shall not appear again this night"

[void cargo]

It used to be the case a long time ago that it'd kinda default to offering you legendaries. But that was changed a long time ago

[uncut zealot]

Didn't realize it procced every time I picked something from her, draining her pool of boons super fast.

[void cargo]

You can make it work to.yiur advantage but it needs planning. Denial is helped by having all 4 gods in the pool from early on

[forest hinge]

thats pretty much what i said no?

[void cargo]

Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you. We started responding probs around the same time. I just took longer haha

[uncut zealot]

Noted. Otherwise I find it pretty brutal!

[void cargo]

You can even force 5 or 6 gods into the pool and make use of Hera's extended family. It can be quite versatile!

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1397736062675062835/clip.mp4 storm ring buff

max grit

[plush loom]

I was making a build for poseidon-hera dual so i got 3000 of gold and i didnt noticed that they reworked it 🤡

[thin ridge]

Seismic servo looks pretty neat

Anyone know if it can make the blasts go lower than 2 seconds

[plush loom]

how u got the cast at that lrvel that fast 😭 ?

[spiral wadi]

zeus keepsake and pray

ngl now it feels like i have to get storm ring and i rather try to find funky builds so no more zeus keepsake for now

[glass shell]

😭

[spiral wadi]

got a really fun run to p3 chronos at max hp before dying greatly

not fun when you're slowed down and he decides to do his chain dash attack

maybe defensive posture really is meta

[glass shell]

join me brother

defensive posture is her best boon post nerfs to all the good stuff

[spiral wadi]

ok im not liking that toula always sleeps right when i enter a location so i have to stay at the door and dash into her first

[forest hinge]

surely divine dash is still her best boon no?

[glass shell]

i don't care for it personally but its not bad

i just prefer DP because when i get hit, its usually followed up by like 5 other hits alongside it due to aoe or chain shots(that most got removed this patch tbh)

[spiral wadi]

if chronos had something worth deflecting maybe

[glass shell]

so that takes me from like 5 hits total > 1

[sage flame]

she stays active now tho :) so after the first activation she stays up between waves and after killing enemies and such but yeah itd be nice if she spawned in laying right away

[west thunder]

How was divine dash nerfed exactly

[forest hinge]

true actually, he's only got AoE type dmg

[glass shell]

this patch? not at all afaik

[west thunder]

I meant before

[forest hinge]

are u referring to between the Hades games?

[glass shell]

since her introduction like 10 months ago? Reduced iframes, reduced what can be deflected, reduced time active.

[uneven palm]

Before Unseen it used to deflect longer

[west thunder]

Ah okay thanks. I hadn’t seen it post unseen

Nerfing it is kinda crazy when we already get 1 dash anyway

[uneven palm]

Like you’d be invulnerable longer than your regular dash before Unseen

So D Dash is just kinda ok now. Great for dash-striking aspects and it’s a little more safety just cuz it bonks away some projectiles

IMO defensive posture supremacy now

[glass shell]

i've been a DP believer for months

even when they said it was trash in olympic update (mental block was obv better)

[uneven palm]

Olympus mental block was bonkers

[haughty fulcrum]

okay shiva is pretty fun now

pretty tanky as well when you camp omega attack

[glass shell]

i still kinda wish they kept the damage high after they gutted the block

[uneven palm]

Given the extreme gutting it would have been fair to keep the damage yah

[forest hinge]

for the life of me i can figure out how to play Nergal lmao

[shy summit]

weirdly i feel like supay is still better than last patch

the extra ball really changes the equation for applying curses

[shy summit]

the only thing i got to work with it is a spin-to-win build with apollo lol

[spiral wadi]

supay seemed to get reworked so i imagine it'll probably be a thing ppl will have to get adjusted to

[shy summit]

by nerfing the base damage and disabling hitstun on attack they seem to be pushing for the "run around and apply scorch" type of build

which is fine because that was the most fun type of build to begin with on supay

[spiral wadi]

wait they disabled attack hitstun that's crazy

[shy summit]

that's a big nerf

but if this is what it takes to bring back the ball...

[wild swan]

I should play re-balled Supay, been meaning to take out some non-Eos torches

[uneven palm]

Omega attack. That’s it. Get Psychic Whirlwind and Apollo attack

[shy summit]

I took me a while to figure out the default playstyle - but the idea is that in exchange for a slower initial attack you get access to the repeated bonks

your reward for landing the slower initial hit is a faster attack combo

fine in theory but dang is it hard to play

[sick tide]

So what’s good for Shiva? Apollo on special and then getting Ares somewhere?

[uneven palm]

Apollo attack. Punch whole rooms

[sick tide]

Oh, I’d heard Apollo special. Do you just want both?

[uneven palm]

Like I guess Apollo Special should be fine but I’d probably mix it up with Hera or Ares

Zeus maybe. Honestly all that matters with Shiva is using Night and the O special to juice an O attack and punch the entire room

[pure steppe]

guys new supay is actually so fun

the less damage isnt felt that much cause you get more distruction stacks per ult

New Shiva****

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1397776467542413404/clip.mp4 beyblade beyblade let it rip

[stable herald]

The rhythm for the new Supay attacks is much more consistent though, happy about that

[maiden sedge]

SUPAAAAYYY!!!

[edgy nacelle]

Hmmm, trying out Eos again post patch and unsure what hammers I should really be looking for. My old favorite has been cut (the triple specials one), and the "+1 specials projectiles" hammer isn't even available for Eos (sigh)
Any thoughts? ik it's still not great but I want to lean into the special duplication for a run to see how it feels

[civic ocean]

There's some flexibility depending on what you want to do I think

Eos is probably an interesting Huntress weapon now with Daybreaker just applying a status like freeze and the special delivering the damage

[edgy nacelle]

the most success I had pre-patch was with Aphro specials + the Aphro-Poseidon duo, so yeah I think special-focused gameplay is fun (although iirc Ω-specs also did a ton that run)
I guess there's always special orbit speed/channel speed... hm.
update: that hammer feels pretty good actually yes

[wheat dock]

I find Eris more difficult now. Does it happen to anyone else? The orbs she leaves now are much more annoying and I can’t find a way to avoid them

[night lagoon]

You can pop them remotely by using whatever your weapon's ranged option is

Does Seismic Servo allow you to get past the 2-second cap on blast cooldowns, or does it just make you need less poms?

[topaz meteor]

Lol I struggled too until someone told me you can destroy them, while it's still harder than base Eris, the small arena is more of a problem than her new weapon

[solemn loom]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1272385014150991875/1397895013622485052/Screenshot_2025-07-24_at_6.39.02_AM.png?ex=688362ae&is=6882112e&hm=6cb2ac0d0d54a97a18daeebbe7e033106eb0a2d69276cf91627442068fda625c&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1100&height=646

P11 Board.

**For Submission

• Gameplay Link > Youtube gameplay link or Discord victory screen link.
• Arcana & Oath > Optional but recommended if you submit victory screen. If you're going to include, use the shareable tools, the links to the tools are above the inputs.

[mellow condor]

aspect of momus kinda sucks?

[obsidian narwhal]

I'm away from home rn, how is the new supay? Looks like more big nerfs...

[civic ocean]

They go below 2

[sage flame]

^ see above

[olive tusk]

looks like Heph is gonna get his spotlight now

[glass shell]

still pretty weak

Like even with persephone giving me a 2 second cd off rip, it still felt very poor. It absolutely felt amazing when i got big aoe clangs but without a secondary damage source to supplement him it just.... fell apart

A lot of that is failing to get stuff like hestia duo despite rolling and digging for it since my 3rd boon in ephyra, and only getting posiedons 30% cd reduction to supplement my damage

but if a build requires high rarity + 4+ poms(when not persephone) + duo boons.... is it really a good build?

[olive tusk]

by spotlight I mean I'm going to maybe pick him as a secondary damage now instead of an insta-skip LMAO

[civic ocean]

Ya

https://youtu.be/qLzHWTGIRZM?si=B5FDkC1WNSGoXR3d

pretty good

[brazen ore]

It is really good on perseph now but my issue with him was never "oh he's good on perseph and his support boons are good so he's fine" its that i dont think an attack/special should be so narrow as to be limited to one specific aspect

East thinks i am an idiot for this tho lol

[civic ocean]

Idk I think you could give me any weapon with a heph start and the right arcana and I am waltzing through 32

I don’t think you’re an idiot, I do however think there is like a sizeable gap between Heph being dismissed out of theory and Heph being dismissed out of practice

[glass shell]

i dunno i've tried a few runs and it feels like trash to hunt for poms without persephone, and persephone feels good at first but falls off a cliff with higher hp pools until duos come in

as a bonus though he feels MUCH better with 500 damage explosions for the attacks you don't use

[rich belfry]

WHAT SHOULD I BUILD FOR MOROS ? how do u play with it kinda my first

[civic ocean]

Some combination of damage bulk and speed

[rich belfry]

like

[civic ocean]

What do you think gives you damage that works well with what Moros’ weapon does

[brazen ore]

I have legit tried to make his attack/special work in practice on weapons other than perseph and the rerolling for poms and stuff just kinda feels miserable in underworld and absolutely horrendous on surface. He is better as like an "offhand" god and his duos open up more niches but i still think the cooldown needs to be reduced at base by like 2 seconds

[civic ocean]

Yeah idk I think he’d be pretty broken then but like im not gonna complain

[brazen ore]

Cause in UW you're committing rerolls to minor doors for pom hunting, which is doable but feels bad, and on surface it is just like a nonstarter really

[civic ocean]

Remember the blasts are supposed to be the worst thing about him

Like you want to take heph for the defensive value

[rich belfry]

idk maybe Zeus ares

[civic ocean]

Sounds good give that a try

[rich belfry]

XD really

[brazen ore]

thats fine but then why does he have t2 boons about blasts and several duos that also interact with them

like if blasts were more of a secondary aspect to him the way hestia's cast flings are (like two boons and one duo) (ignore her legendary which i also think is bad) why do they occupy so much of his boon pool

[civic ocean]

Because you can go into them for fun and they’re flashy

[brave dove]

also blasts are genuinely very good secondary damage

[civic ocean]

And they are better secondary damage with the duos!

[brave dove]

like if the cooldown isn't relevant because you're only throwing it out every ten seconds to fill space, heph blast is very good on special

and even for persistent special weavers like axe and blades it's good if you can get the cd down

[brazen ore]

Iiii still think he needs a bit of a buff. I'm not as frustrated with him as I was but I would usually want a curse application in my "offhand" slot

[brave dove]

I mean, glow

[civic ocean]

Like none of Heph’s blast duos require you to do anything special either

[brave dove]

the main thing is that you want global damage mods for it

like a heph blast can crit for like 4-5k damage if you spec into them

[brazen ore]

True but then im committing two heph boons to making blast work when i could just take like hera demeter or hestia and be done with it

[brave dove]

I mean poseidon also needs two boons and is considered an excellent secondary slot if your weapon can use froth

[brazen ore]

Interesting. I dont think ive ever used poseidon as my secondary and then hunted for froth. I ahve used him as a secondary but have always just gone tidal ring

[civic ocean]

Not really you’re taking heph for your offhand, then you’re taking blinding rush because it’s cracked and for origination and then Narcissus offers you another heph or its in the shop and bada bing bada boom you get the duo and now each blast deals at least 1200 damage

[brave dove]

the thing that really screws with heph is denial

[brazen ore]

I think i also mostly play on surface and with denial now so that may be impacting my feelings a lot

[brave dove]

'cause you're not gonna lock out trusty shield to get grand caldera, practically speaking

but if that's not a concern...

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think with the new duos Caldera is a lot less necessary but can be ok on dedicated builds

[brave dove]

it's still +flat damage for your globals to multiply

[civic ocean]

But the Apollo stuff is holy moly

[brave dove]

rude awakening was already strong

the real nerf is no room temperature, though

[civic ocean]

Solar Ring stocks have never been higher!

[brave dove]

that's not saying much they have never been high-

[brazen ore]

i look forward to the non persephone heph builds people come out with then lol. I havent been able to manage it yet but heres hoping

[brave dove]

that was lowkey heph's strongest boon IMO

[civic ocean]

Perma freeze gone sadge

The multiplier is dope tho ig

I think people are way too into the Poseidon duo

Ironically it is at its worst when blasts are focused on

And its also an unfortunate change because seismic hammer was unique and cool

[brazen ore]

I do feel meh about the poseidon duo. If you're able to get the cooldown to 2 seconds then getting it to 1.40 or whatever it is, is not doing that much, and it doesn't impact many other things

[quasi mica]

just force a pool of 5 specific gods to combine seismic servo with light smite heinous affront. it'll pop off

[brazen ore]

I really like the hera one. I think its pretty hyper specific but I'm not mad about it

[quasi mica]

then cry when you impulse buy a mystery boon and ruin it

[civic ocean]

Unfortunately I don’t think Servo interacts with affront

[brazen ore]

It doesn't interact with much. I think just things like flood gain/ionic gain, heph blasts, and some athena and dio stuff

[quasi mica]

wait really. that sucks

[brazen ore]

I wss excited at first cause i was like "wait does it interact with stuff like freeze" and then people were like no lmao. It doesn't.

[civic ocean]

Nor wounds, etc

[brazen ore]

Nothing you'd really want it to work on basically

[quasi mica]

The patch notes said "any boon effects that recharge over time" so since heinous affront has a cooldown listed in the exact same way as hephaestus blasts I kind of assumed it must work

[civic ocean]

Big mistake assuming anything in this game works like it says it does

[brazen ore]

Reckless abandon wording still makes me angy

[civic ocean]

Servo in particular double doesn’t work

[brazen ore]

just remove the word "extra" from there

[glass shell]

the issue with HA is the devil in the details

the boon doesn't recharge, its the cooldown per unit

[buoyant zephyr]

anyone got any anubis builds for 50 fear? it feels like im stuck, frenzy 2 full rivals is insane but i feel the closest ive got to beating was with anubis, the build itself just felt kind of lacking, especially since eris along with prometheus' rivals fights seem to favor fast burst damage that can keep up with their movement

[uneven palm]

I haven't pushed Anubis that far but are you leaning into the O special?

Or if you're having trouble getting Omegas off I'd guess like Hestia/Poseidon attack Zeus special could do some work

[crude needle]

supay is still amazing, holy. i love that aspect so much. feels good to have 2 orbs for specials again

[brazen ore]

So the way I saw a 62f player do it was by basically ignoring omega moves. Blitz on attack, hestia on special, drop the attack/cast and spam regular special. Hope for zeus hestia duo

[brazen ore]

Ive seen people do other way around with blitz attack and hestia special

[uneven palm]

Seems like either could work

[trim shoal]

looking for arcana advice for high fear than axe
current setup is Sorceress, Eternity, The Moon, The Furies, Persistence, Death, The Centaur, Origination, The Lovers, The Enchantress, The Artificer, and The Champions

Idk what to drop for Huntress

[sage flame]

I was hitting 1200+ (depending on globals) damage heph blasts with only rude awakening and heph specifically

wasn't even the point of the build, was morrigan oattack focused

[brazen ore]

Im not particularly a than axe player but personally would drop eternity for it?

[cursive oyster]

the most common fear arcana you’ll see is
the whole bottom left corner (champions, enchantress, boatman, fates) your pick of strength or death, artificer, lovers, persistence, furies, huntress or night or eternity, then 1 cost cards of your choice

for surface drop artificer and your 2 cost for origination if you wanna

[brazen ore]

Origination is not used on super high fear? Wild

[formal pulsar]

Is the only Poseidon cd based boon fluid gain?

Artificer is not really usually run in surface runs even on high fear and origination is still run

[elfin forge]

yeah ik it's not used for 67

[sage flame]

general your build is planned out/good enough to have plenty of damage without orig

[brazen ore]

damn cant imagine why

Also though im getting conflicting messages here besties lol

[elfin forge]

they also don't use it on freshfile

[brazen ore]

Smh bet they dont use born gain there either

[formal pulsar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1363005907855740992/1363007186120478790/Hades_II_2025-04-19_00_23_26.png?ex=6883af9c&is=68825e1c&hm=1080ea456182a24f3925130c26fcfff8c7feed62536a21c9fc0f17d5603e32cc&

this is the most common run arcana on high fear i see. With death being run more frequently instead of strength since the unseen update

On the surface at least

[elfin forge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349278289042346008/1397981002659532880/Screenshot_2025-07-24_at_9.37.17_AM.png?ex=6883b2c4&is=68826144&hm=43fedbf9915330f8027e46de6a60da371602097f35e9630f2ea858a12dffc4fc&

this was Sandwich's 62f underworld from yesterday

[brazen ore]

Ok that was what i thought it was tbh. That is what i run mostly

[cursive oyster]

death is used more often than strength now

[brazen ore]

I was confused by the suggestion that origination is not used

[spiral wadi]

how long is the cast impervious duration

[brazen ore]

Cause i dont think ive seen anyone not take it

[cursive oyster]

back when i played high fear it was more worthwile (in uw) to skip origination for artificer

[elfin forge]

Red's 58f Circe UW (scars 2)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349278289042346008/1397981385372995687/Screenshot_2025-07-24_at_9.38.45_AM.png?ex=6883b31f&is=6882619f&hm=3a3be77113b3bf77d1840c0b265a9524f3d0bff8bfb1f8cdd34e1aa0ed40d6c4&

[spiral wadi]

i just realized i could be using the cast impervious as a second "dash" for chronos if it's long enough

[brave dove]

worth noting that the hestia special there is specifically to fish for thermal dynamics

[spiral wadi]

eyy

[brave dove]

by itself it doesn't do that much though it's not nothing

[cursive oyster]

imo it still is for rivals 0 50f

[elfin forge]

oh hey

[spiral wadi]

excellence i prefer cuz it gives overall better consistency since i think i got a good handle on finding/making builds from what rng gives me now

[elfin forge]

... Thanatos Toula 58 fear?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349278289042346008/1397981773060767956/Screenshot_2025-07-24_at_9.40.18_AM.png?ex=6883b37b&is=688261fb&hm=becafb46c9e4924e508f20625034a310fd2c85fef17c3f0ae3971338c33f8158&

[civic ocean]

What a fun setup

Red is a Divinity nonbeliever

[elfin forge]

with Excellence on huh

[spiral wadi]

boatman is fine but like hermes has money boons

[elfin forge]

respect for running strength

[spiral wadi]

and i usually get like at least 200 moneys by end of erebus

yea strength is more fun to me imo, esp now with ghost onion buff

[civic ocean]

Been meaning to try that yeah

[spiral wadi]

100/0.6 -> 166 effective hp 🤌

[civic ocean]

Goes wild with heirloom too right damn

[spiral wadi]

one run i got like 5 waters with frosty veneer but never got a 6th water 💀

[spiral wadi]

could yea

what's heroic onion do

[glass shell]

150hp

[spiral wadi]

once i put scars up to max ill prob swap my hp/location card for cast impervious cuz i think it'll help with evil chronos second dash

[spiral wadi]

150/0.6 -> 150*5/3 -> 750/3 -> 250?

[glass shell]

wot

oh effective hp

[spiral wadi]

ye, strength is so back

[brazen ore]

good point yeah

[spiral wadi]

have to go out of ur way for heirloom duo so i think it balances out

i also just don't use omegas because with circe ur fine just using attack/special with psychic leash, and the low cost makes it hard to get hexes out

ik there's boons that boost omega cost so when im bored ill prob try to find a circe omega build

[brazen ore]

I dont love using omegas in general esp at frenzy 2, i am not good enough at finding windows to channel

[spiral wadi]

i know there's a hammer for 2 atk/5 mana that does charge hex, so if i get that with hestia then selene might be worth

[spiral wadi]

real, it hard

[sage flame]

if you use part of ghost onion and then get heirloom, does it reset the amount of heal?

[spiral wadi]

good question

[brazen ore]

I also like to cycle through different aspects to Get Gud on as many as I can, and bc many have different channeling times for various moves, my timing gets way off. Muscle memory isnt there

[spiral wadi]

lmao yea it's like learning an entire language

[brazen ore]

Like aw shoot i had enough time to do this if it was 20 magick cost but I sure do not when it's 40

[spiral wadi]

i'm happy w where im at with circe cuz now it feels like as long as i get past erebus, i should be good to go up to chronos

[spiral wadi]

LOL what weapon

[brazen ore]

Any of them really but Shiva coat gets me bad so far

Cause I think my most used aspects are like, perseph skull, supay, morrigan, nyx. So pretty nuch anything with a longer than 20-25 channel time has me messing up

[spiral wadi]

good lineup, yea for morrigan i find the omega slowdown card is very worth

i have a very cursed arcana for magick actually lemme see

[brazen ore]

Im VERY bad at axe or anything that wants you to be slow

[spiral wadi]

o yea axe used to be my first weapon that i was able to use to beat runs, then i switched off and now it feels so slow it hurts

[brazen ore]

I do want to try and use more of em bc I know I'm missing out on a lot of fun weapons as i push fear, not to mention hexes, but damn the muscle memory

[spiral wadi]

musclez

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1397987337002025184/screenshot.jpg?ex=6883b8aa&is=6882672a&hm=c4e5bdd475c342fb0a886e1ccee192ce3d488263a0d9b771331e3556e6806faa&

cursed random magick arcana build i made/adjusted on a whim for moros

[brazen ore]

Oh that is kinda cursed. Why excellence?

[spiral wadi]

excellence gives overall better build consistency, i like to make builds from what im given cuz at least with circe there is no god that is "bad"

i got a crazy gust anvil ring run with freeze attack and apollo special that got to p3 chronos

got skill issue'd tho

[brazen ore]

Interesting. I feel like I'd want to take boatman or origination instead

[spiral wadi]

ye origination makes sense, i was told that since lack of artificier and with forfeit it might be hard

boatman is cool but i think i manage money fine without it, usually i get like 150 mons by end of erebus, and +100 if i get a money room

[brazen ore]

Fair, i do sleep on artificer i think bc i mostly like playing surface

[spiral wadi]

if they made it so boatman did what hermes' money boost boon does i might consider

[brazen ore]

Also was more thinking boatman for the extra rerolls

[spiral wadi]

extra rerolls is nice but i think with where im at with circe i dont need it

erebus is my check for how good my build is and will be, if i lose then it wasn't strong enough, if i win then i can usually make it to chronos or at least cerberus

just clicked to me that if i get winner's circle i can proc messenger more, maybe i've been sleeping on it

[brazen ore]

That is fair. I should try. Do you go for any particular gods in general on circe? Like you're mistly just using attack special for curses yeah?

[spiral wadi]

i kinda just mess around and go w whatever god, i find zeus pre-11 and now-11 gave me the most consistency in damage output

[pure grove]

For Circe specifically, Poseidon but only because it makes it quicker to get Geyser Spout

[spiral wadi]

i swear they changed smth with hestia cast too cuz now it procs scorch twice if they overlap

oh yea poseidon cast is great even post-nerf

[pure grove]

Otherwise, Zeus for Air Quality and Demeter for Gale

Maybe add in Apollo or Ares depending on how you’re feeling

[spiral wadi]

apollo sprint is an absolute must for me, it makes dodging chronos and cerberus so much easier

[pure grove]

If you’re really looking for stacking damage though, you can go further by grabbing Dark Side for the extra 30%

[civic ocean]

Yeah I am sorta here with origination excellence and boatman

[brazen ore]

Oh also what fear do u usually do with that. I often push fear on supay so wards are sorta free but i imagine they're less so with circe

[spiral wadi]

58f but that magick arcana isn't what i use for circe

[spiral wadi]

this is what i use for circe

[brazen ore]

Bet. We attempt after some writing

[glossy rivet]

What is the invulnerable phase hp thresholds of rivals chronos?

feelsbad when i activate a super duper apollo lunar ray but then he just enters invuln phase

also does the % destructive bonuses on shiva work additively like usual damage boons?

[spiral wadi]

all rivals bosses have a combobreak mechanic where if they take damage in a short amount of time they react

for chronos it's once per phase

so u'd have to "combobreak" him first before u can lunar ray his ass

[glossy rivet]

is it different from their hp threshold invuln phase? like chronos always turns invuln at 50%hp in phase 2 for example

coulda sworn chronos went invuln like 3 times in phase 3

i got one sun ray off in phase 2 after 50%hp and it deleted his hp in one use

also is Apollo the BIS for shiva atk for the radius?

[glass shell]

yes

its if you do 2k damage in a single attack or close enough to a single attack that it triggers

so if your lunar ray takes like 2 seconds to deal 2k, it won't trigger

[civic ocean]

Yes

IIRC all Rivals bosses have a thing they do that is basically “if I am hit really hard in a short time period and am not phased, do X”

Hecate triple divides
Scylla does the shell attack
Cerberus puts up his dukes
Chronos does time bubble into an attack in p1/p2 and the balls everywhere invul attack in p3

Every time a boss phases they regain the ability to do this

[glossy rivet]

aww
i guess i cant go overkill on the sun ray

w8 what about typhon? What is the best phase to use lunar ray on him in rivals?

[glass shell]

i actually don't know if rivlas typhon has a combo breaker at all

i can't think of a time its ever happened to me, maybe it triggers chronos to teleport to you cause ive seen that alot

[civic ocean]

I am uncertain any rivals surface encounters have particular combobreakers

Haven’t played it much

[willow phoenix]

I don't think there's any for rivals surface tbh

I've beat both rivals Prom and Typhon with Lunar Ray only and there isn't really anything outside of phase change

Eris already flies off a lot so dunno if that counts and I'm sure Poly also doesn't have one outside the phase change invulnerability

[quasi mica]

There wouldn't really be any way for Typhon to combo break anyways outside if phase transitions given its totally stationary

[spiral wadi]

typhon combo break: yells at chronos to do something /j

[civic ocean]

P1 cerb is stationary and has a counter

[quasi mica]

stop. you'll give them ideas.

i'm not ready for typh to start bob and weaving

[spiral wadi]

honestly one of the craziest things to me is that hecate's combo break isn't her omega cast from the reveal trailer

[civic ocean]

Instead it is the worst move in her kit

What part of melinoes training involves having to tell hecate apart from her clones

[spiral wadi]

having range

(morrigan in shambles)

also hecate still has her own unique teleport effect post-interphase so i have no idea what they changed about being too "obvious"

[slate trench]

brutal nerf to staff omega attack animation, charge up now restarts if you dash during it instead of firing the attack if you were at the end of the charge

[hoary bear]

is anyone getting mad walled by Promothus?

like thought i had a Good runs going then just wiped by him

[civic ocean]

The flames on the end of her divide attack looked weird on the real one

[spiral wadi]

ooh i see

[uneven palm]

Heracles and Prom have combobreakers but they're not quite like the UW gang. Prom will dash back and cancel out of his current move if you do 600 damage to him in a short period (very bad if he's doing the fire line summon, the fire comes out instantly), and Heracles has a specific "eff off" attack spin that happens under the same circumstances. Both have a cooldown of 7s

[uneven palm]

If it's regular Prometheus, he has strict patterns and you can dodge his moves mostly the same way. This might help https://youtu.be/iDfSTMw9qsI

[silent crow]

are heph blasts good now

[atomic ibex]

I feel like they are very strong when you build for them. You want duos though

[civic ocean]

Apollo Heph in particular is astoundingly powerful

[silent crow]

how high is the smg bonus now

[civic ocean]

Taking heph attack as an example it is 400+300 with the duo +any global damage mods

[spiral wadi]

wow ok taking off heal per location (scars 2 pain 3) is throwing me off so hard rn

how do high fear ppl do it

[civic ocean]

Ive been playing scars 3 for a year when I do play this game

Idk I just take a lot of centaur hearts and engraved pins

[spiral wadi]

hm, engraved pin makes sense, i haven't used it in forever tho lmao

[civic ocean]

Basically just go room to room oscillating between 0 and 60

Or do some stuff like

Fight Fight Fight is really good if you can’t heal

[spiral wadi]

i see, the problem rn is that i very much depend on raki to help clear rooms as fast as possible (especially since as long as leash is on, raki cannot leave), but i feel like there's an off chance learning how to play circe with gale will be necessary

maybe it's toula 4dd time

btw is it just me or is the shadow spiller fear variant easier than the non-fear variant

[civic ocean]

Its faster

[spiral wadi]

very

it's also noticeably like, the shadow spiller doesn't attack as often so you can just burn it down quicker instead of having to back out back in consciously

feels like it just loses its presence in its fear form

[civic ocean]

I think thats just all the shadow spillers are like that now

[spiral wadi]

idk i haven't played the non-fear version for a while

actually i'm pretty sure i remember from doing chaos below

since the non-fear version never has move behavior, it's always in a state of attacking as long as it has armor, idk if they ever nerfed the armor or not but it did require backing out a bit

then with fear you can just cast and i'll stay stuck in move mode for a bit

[dry mirage]

i want to try heph after the buffs whats the best heph build rn?

[civic ocean]

Persephone aspect Aph special Heph attack and then go for like 2 or 3 duos

[dry mirage]

bet thank you

[unique igloo]

thanatos feels fun this patch

[blazing tide]

does anyone have any advice for fighting eris with nergal? im not sure how to deal with all the orbs

[cerulean panther]

Your Omega Attack and Omega Special eventually have enough range on them to hit orbs safely.

Apollo has that happen more quickly, I think you can just detonate them with your Attack.

[broken lichen]

What are the general tips for fighting unrivaled Eris?
I feel like you really need the right weapon and/or build just to not get demolished by her bombs.

[rocky pier]

Asking again here: Has anyone managed to snag the Apollo legendary and ripple effect? Does the legendary second shot trigger ripple effect?

Because that would mean 4 waves/lightning bolts

[wintry vine]

yo guys after a long time im back to hades 2

i like fast builds with fast attacks, any build recomendations?

[rocky pier]

Hel aspect skull with hestia attack

[bright orbit]

I believe the bombs are launched to your current location and they fade away after a while. Stay on the left half of the screen while she launches them and the right side will be safe, etc.

[uneven palm]

You can blow up the bombs yourself with any ranged option or any damaging cast (like Demeter, Heph, Apollo, any Omega cast). Probably just gotta plan around that with Rivals Eris.

[upper rapids]

Second the persephone aspect recommendation
Could also try demeter on special, to open up cryo pounder
Then also apollo for his duo
Hestia for duo
Poseidon for duo

Basically a lot of duos since theyre so strong
Grand caldera aswell

The build is so good it nearly got me my first rivals 4 clear.. were it not for that ||baby mel|| phase at the end after finishing typhon

Honestly would've been an easy win too but his tongue attack hit me like 6 times while I was in baby form

[simple turret]

just fumbled my first 50f with vow of rivals on chronos 😔

[upper rapids]

All third phase let me guess

[upper rapids]

Oh also really liked fetching array to keep up w the low clang clang recharges, since i dont have to waste time on gathering the shells

[wintry vine]

any good sister blade attack centered build?

[forest hinge]

how come Static Shock doesn't proc with Double Strike?

[spiral wadi]

static shock might have icd 🤔

[olive sphinx]

it does 😔

[civic ocean]

Easiest way to think about it is that Double Strike works on vertical bolts only

[forest hinge]

mmmmmm this is easier to understand. shame it doesn't work on ALL lightning bolts tho

the wiki classifies Static Shock's effects as "Chain Lightning" instead of the "Lightning Bolts" from smth like Thunder Rush. so thats kind of a bummer lol

is Fourth Degree a good duo boon?

[olive sphinx]

Yes very!!!

[forest hinge]

OH! i though it was held back by Wounds having a 3sec ICD??

[olive sphinx]

you have to be mindful of how you build around it a bit

[olive sphinx]

yeah you don't want Ares on your main source of damage (so take his dash/cast instead maybe)

in an ideal world you would get ares attack - then grievous blow/fourth degree - then sell ares attack or replace it with something else and then you'd do a lot of damage

but it can still work well regardless

at least I remember it working well for me haha

[forest hinge]

i think i'll try it on Anubis staff lol, see if i can get smth going

[olive sphinx]

it's definitely a lot of fun at least!

[upper rapids]

Ok yea managed to beat rivals chronos with it for the first time so i like Persephone clang clang for sure

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942150025269309/1398169733379133450/clip.mp4 bro got the frame 1 grab

was a decent run too, froth with ares dash did good work

[elfin forge]

is that wringer from guilty gear or something

[spiral wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/rabbit-bunny-grab-hand-meme-gif-9151059333928663509

[tough pasture]

Did SgG fix the aesthetics of supay or not? I couldn't tell from skimming the patch notes.

[vagrant fractal]

Ripple Effect my beloved

[elfin forge]

wdym aesthetics

the weapon was always aesthetic

[tough pasture]

pre-nerf supay had 2 balls rotating at all times.

[elfin forge]

oh you mean the balls yeah there's 2 balls now

[spiral wadi]

baller

[civic ocean]

Idk I think you got hard read like it was grabbing when you dashed it by the looks of it

[spiral wadi]

if i wanted to be read while dashing i'd be playing smash rn

ok i actually hate how the fish trident guys are perfectly timed to be impervious to hitstun while they do their lil stomp while trying to chain staff hits it actually feels like 1f away

could just be me getting salty

[brazen ore]

im gettin so mad at prom and herc on surface. i think i gotta take off timer 3 until i get the fight down a bit more lol

[spiral wadi]

how's the surface so far, i remember they said smth about reducing enemy numbers

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1398184544028590190/nicehitbox.mp4 nice hitbox

[brazen ore]

thessaly feels better. olympus feels about the same? but i could just be coping and seething haha

[elfin forge]

olympus got nerfed quite a bit with p11

[brazen ore]

yeah, i think i'm just seething cause eris makes me go basically to the limit on timer

[civic ocean]

I am soooo looking forward to no longer getting blasted on a very tiny thessaly boat by a Menaced Dracon Steph Currying me from offscreen

[elfin forge]

I think I hate sappers more

their rockets at frenzy 2 are insane

[civic ocean]

Sappers suck and I don't think they nerfed Kendrick Lamar either

[brazen ore]

kendrick?

[civic ocean]

The big laser turret guys - the biggest haters Inhave ever seen in a video game when they released

[elfin forge]

they nerfed them with unseen

[civic ocean]

Yeah they kinda easier now but I still get lit up from time to time

[elfin forge]

"· Auto-Watcher: reduced rate of fire"

p11 was about nerfing all the other automatons lol

Autoseekers no longer explode, Autoforcers are slower

[brazen ore]

they are horrendous and i get so mad when they appear on thessaly boats bc of menace. i know it is the consequences of my own actions bc i was the one who put the vow on

but im still like grrrrr get out of here

[civic ocean]

Armored ones when my build isn't very strong

[elfin forge]

surface menace makes thessaly hell, no way around that

thessaly is fundamentally just a crazy biome
olympus enemies from menace
onion removes one of the few boons you'll get
forced miniboss or family dispute
many arenas are just cramped with little cover for long range moves(like autowatchers from menace)
giant anchors can cover half the damn arena
also there's fire on half of the ship

[civic ocean]

Also apparently the patch note that says that they buffed getting boons in thessaly didnt actually buff it much or at all

[brazen ore]

the forced family dispute sucks with denial on tbh because you cannot reroll and so you may end up being forced to take a god that you already saw plenty of in ephyra

i wish i could pick family dispute or miniboss

[spiral wadi]

any1 got tips on rival hecate's interphase spam attack

[spiral wadi]

oh yea it's kinda weird that all rooms are unrollable in thessaly, even family dispute

[tall notch]

Which one is that?

[spiral wadi]

it's the one where she fires random direction projectiles at a high speed towards you, that return back towards her

[tall notch]

Ohh that one. Try to remain kind of in one place when she's sending them out so that when they return you can simply get out of their way easily

May cost you some time to position around this but it's safer

[spiral wadi]

makes sense, tho it's mainly when she fires them initially that tends to throw me off more

[tall notch]

Try keeping distance from her for that part. Easier said than done when witches are next to her ik, but that's the idea to avoid that move

[spiral wadi]

gotcha

[glossy rivet]

is weedkiller still worth getting on shiva?

[edgy nacelle]

imo yeah, I wouldn't add Demeter to your pool just for weed killer but it's a nice boon

[willow phoenix]

Night Bloom finally works vs Typhon and it's so good lol

[wise idol]

Uh this is wrong? Family dispute is the only unrollable room

You can roll normal rewards and miniboss rewards

[terse hemlock]

dang, righteous pike and shiva goes hand in hand

[lunar kiln]

boo exceptional talent on shiva special sucks

[glass shell]

its bugged so yeah

has the pre-rework effects to not bounce

[willow phoenix]

Only 1 O special can bounce at the same time

With Apollo legendary you'll launch 2 but only 1 will bounce

It's not really a bug and more of an intended feature. Since if you use another O special while one is bouncing the old one will disappear too

[tough pasture]

I like the new change to shiva aspect. Makes the charged up attack much more usuable in high(er) fear.

[spiral wadi]

o huh i didn't know that

[glossy rivet]

ok coat omega attack feels almost unusable without apollo attack radius
is the hammer that makes it reach farther better or worse? can it stack with apollo boon?

does static shock work with anubis attack?

[civic ocean]

While shes invul right

[spiral wadi]

yup

[civic ocean]

That one is the hardest one for me too

I kinda like get up a lil close on one side and then quickly get behind her and kill the witches on that side then flip sides

Its way easier said than done tho I usually just accept I am taking like four or five waves in the mouth

[glossy rivet]

whats the strat for momskull? go heph and pray for pom rng?

[spiral wadi]

hm, will try that later

[glass shell]

i personally don't think heph is the strongest build for it, its literally just o-special build. Aphro special, any olympian damage cast and attack just to apply curse tbh.

Get high level poms > cast for olympian damage > spam ospecial for iframe half the fights and win

[civic ocean]

https://youtu.be/qLzHWTGIRZM?si=98QZHcVE_0pPm0GL here’s a high fear clear with heph momskull

I am gonna try and record an overexplain of this and my other 50+ rivals clears this weekend

[jade raptor]

I feel like if you are struggling with the underworld regions, go on the surface dor a while and get humbled (if able) and then youre good, because I haven't lose a chronos fight since I beat the surface 3 boss

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1398355458162426008/ohokay.mp4 wait ok i might have to play shiva now

[civic ocean]

I wanna try Selene punch but same idea

[spiral wadi]

one punch meta

[glossy rivet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1357056623692218520/1398361253654823003/image.png?ex=688514e7&is=6883c367&hm=5518d3dad4c821db0da76a2928fa970b8f7d75029312b47a3f554a121fc387b0& whats optimal for shiva?

torn between world collider or reaper frame

how big of a deal is the larger area? i already have apollo on attack

[glass shell]

optimal is none of the above probably

Probably world collider if i had to guess though

[glossy rivet]

i guess ill just pick reaper if it increase the radius of omega attack

[glass shell]

idk +100 power on something that scales up to 300%... is a lot

plus the apollo % increase too. nuke bosses even more

[uneven palm]

Siege or world collider

Siege is just a nice QOL upgrade

[glossy rivet]

can crystal figurine or circe encounter activate judgement arcana?

[spiral wadi]

it should ye

[civic ocean]

Yes but if Crystal Fig activates Judgement, Judgement itself will not activate

[brazen ore]

Interesting. Why does crystal fig not force activate it when circe does?

[glossy rivet]

thats gotta be a bug right

[civic ocean]

Circe doesn't force activate it either, Circe is not a guardian basically

Circe turns on judgement and then judgement activates after you beat eris

[glossy rivet]

oh you mean judgment needs me to beat a guardian first to then trigger the card awakenings? oh ok

[brazen ore]

Oh, I didn't understand what you meant. I thought you meant like it would not work at all, not that the crystal fig guardian didnt count for judgment

[civic ocean]

yeah exactly, the current ordering is Beat Guardian ->Figurine activates

This as you can imagine makes Figurine really good FOR Judgement runs

Since Judgement is probably the worst card it can pull

[brazen ore]

Yeah unless youre taking it biome 1 which seems kinda rancid

[civic ocean]

I think it's pretty good biome 1

Like you want the cards to be activated for as much of the run as possible right

[brazen ore]

I think id almost always want a god keepsake instead tbh

Unless i was doing a judgment run

[civic ocean]

Well, I'd almost always not want to be playing Judgement yknow? But in the circumstances I AM doing that, I am probably accepting of randomness such that I don't mind

[glossy rivet]

judgment shiva hmmm

[brazen ore]

Yeah. Tbf i dont know if ive ever taken crystal fig except to max out the bond and when chaos thought it would be funny to give it to me on summit

[civic ocean]

Blades make a lot of sense to me for Judgement because they can be very flexible in playstyle

[glossy rivet]

shiva feels so good rn wtf

[civic ocean]

I currently do not have Crystal Figurine maxed with over 800 hours in the game

[brazen ore]

I finally have all of them maxxed now that i stopped being scared of white antler tartarus

[glass shell]

order of operations

You have circe keepsake > Boss dies > circe triggers judgement >judgement is active > no boss dies so no judgement

Frankly it would certainly be more enticing as a cashout option if you could get the judgement proc in that fight

[civic ocean]

I don't think it would be too strong either for Judgement to check if a guardian has died in the room it is activated in by figurine yeah

[glass shell]

Like currently the theoretical most cards judgement via circe can activate is 10

15 but thats post chronos/typhon and thus irrelevant

[thin cloud]

What’s a good build for aspect of Medea?

[sly plaza]

Zeus special and Ares attack for basically guaranteed Blitz procs every special dash and then build into the duo if you can

Disgusting damage, no omegas needed

[thin cloud]

Who else for the other two?

[sly plaza]

Whatever you run into. But generally Aphro can be quite helpful since Zeus synergies well with her infusion

Apollo as well if you end up getting the duo

[civic ocean]

It doesn't matter too much, though if you ARE going to play for Heinous Affront, you will want to get Light Smite from Apollo

[sly plaza]

His revenge boon is nuts with the duo

[civic ocean]

While learning the weapon it can be useful to take Demeter on the Cast so you can freeze enemies

[west thunder]

Apollo or Hera attack for Shiva? Or is something else best

[civic ocean]

I would imagine Aphrodite Attack is probably very good

[thin cloud]

For the 4th would Hera be good?

[west thunder]

Oh true I forget about her lately

[sly plaza]

Both work but Apollo generally seems to be preferred atm due to his insane the size of your omega attack is

[thin cloud]

I wonder if any of the other argent skull aspects are good

[west thunder]

Anything interesting on the special or is it typically just blitz shenanigans

[civic ocean]

https://youtu.be/qLzHWTGIRZM?si=HobLy_1N2oaEw5fo Here's a high fear persephone clear using heph blasts

[sly plaza]

Blitz is the popular pick atm but I’ve seen some weird Ares shenanigans with grevious blow

[thin cloud]

Yeah I’ve used the Medea build with Zeus and ares, but I’m not feeling it rn as I just ran a very similar build on a different weapon

[uneven palm]

Ares Heph Zeus all spicy on Medea special

[thin cloud]

Is judgement worth running as anything other than a challenge run?

[sly plaza]

It’s pretty fun with figurine

But other than that it’s typically more of a challenge type of arcana

Might be some fringe use cases I’m overlooking though

[uneven palm]

Ultra high fear with Void (so, also rare)

[thin cloud]

Isn’t figurine one use though?

[civic ocean]

Yeah but it still like fills up the arcana deck and helps with consistency

[sly plaza]

Yeah, you tend to swap to common keepsakes. Just like East said it’s more to help with consistency

[thin cloud]

Idk if I can give up all my rerolls in case I run into boons that will ruin my build by taking up my boon pool

Sometimes I still get rooms with just boons I don’t want

[civic ocean]

Yeah I mean maybe I'm an oldhead or something but to me, playing with something that you didn't necessarily want is just like what a Roguelike is

[sly plaza]

Yeah like sometimes you just need to play the hand the game deals you

[indigo viper]

Anyway, morrigan feels so fun to play.
I like spamming omega attack more than bloody trinity.

[sly plaza]

That’s also sorta the trade off with Judgement. You lose a lot of typical tools for snowball potential

[sly plaza]

It genuinely might be my favourite aspect in the game

The gameplay loop is super satisfying and if you want to you can lowkey make a one button build as well

Since the dash strike is a shortcut into the multi strike

[indigo viper]

Also like to play with new Persephone. And still imho moros is fun to play when you see like literally everything melting. Including your mana. xD

[thin cloud]

Oh I agree, but it’s annoying when it’s something that locks you out of a god you needed

If you could just trade them out or sacrifice them at any time

It wouldn’t be bad

[civic ocean]

There are some ways to deal with it but yeah can be a bummer

[elfin blade]

How do you dodge the attack rivals poly does after spotted? For normal poly I just dodged towards where the rock fell, but that doesn’t work here

[willow phoenix]

The attack has been changed afaik so the waves are more erratic. Your best bet is to actually gain some distance from where the rock falls so you can dodge it better since the waves would scatter the further it travels

[elfin blade]

so it’s this way for normal poly too now?

[dry mirage]

what should i try on anubis? i just did freezer burn but what else have you guys had fun with

[edgy nacelle]

I like most gods on Anubis tbh. splash is fun now that it isn’t bugged, blitz is surprisingly fun (and you can get the “omegas activate blitz” tier 2 boon if you want), I honestly love using dmg% attack boons and focusing on the omega attack especially if I can get some hammers/secret crush to boost attack power… or apollo leg
scorch feels the strongest and most consistent, but imo it’s really flexible

[spiral wadi]

how good is plasma rn

[civic ocean]

good

[spiral wadi]

nice

[uneven palm]

I find plasma kinda weird to work with since it throws off my muscle memory. Move speed is usually helpful tho

And you can’t go all slippery slidey now

[spiral wadi]

ye i saw ppl get crazy high plasma numbers, i never played ares enough to get to that level tho

[indigo viper]

#h2-victory-boasting message
Anyway, I guess I hit my limit and couldn't pass by 40f.

[spiral wadi]

lesgoo now inch ur way up

[finite narwhal]

i just surpassed 40f this week! i recommend getting used to vow of frenzy 2

[indigo viper]

Well, my problem is vow of time.

I can't do a quite fast run.

[finite narwhal]

i cant either, im saving that for last

[indigo viper]

#966770989121822724 message
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/966770989121822724/1398438246274564096/20B3721.JPG?ex=68855c9b&is=68840b1b&hm=2d15c6880a270eb7b1bc59f15ccb11c90b343458965916cc804945bcd89fda98&=&format=webp&width=1240&height=698
I tried before with scars 2 but ends up with too low hp.
Seriously, I thought of put hordes 1-3 to make up fears. xD

[spiral wadi]

i'd recommend putting time up as soon as u can, it's a good skill to be able to learn how to use ur weapon to clear rooms as fast as possible

at the very least aim for 5 minutes even if ur not doing 5 minute timer

[finite narwhal]

yessss vow of hordes is so satisfying

[finite narwhal]

if u recommend it ill try

i just like messing around too much. ur right tho

[spiral wadi]

ye, at the very least time 2 should be relatively free at high fear

time 3 is a li'l scary but since ur not at high hordes/grit yet it should be fine

[finite narwhal]

im running f53 rn ill kick it up next time

[indigo viper]

Before VoR i did my few 32 clears with max out hordes, grit, protection, return. I'm quite use to slowly, patient type gameplay.
That was beautiful 40+ mins run. xD

[finite narwhal]

i also love that style of gameplay!! sadly im turning on the time soon

[indigo viper]

Anyway, like I said, i probably don't go past 40f (which is quite achievement for me, in hades 1 i barely did 32 heat), maybe I'll try 34-36 (unlikely 40?) surface

[indigo viper]

I was more sadness to disable strenght and started again to run with DD.
But it's insane how easily you can stackpile and refresh dd compared to strenght.
Like, no way that without strenght I passed throught Hecate, not to mention Chronos.

Not probably even strenght's dmg reduction covered the extra life and hp from all dd

[finite narwhal]

i tried strength a lot but i havent gotten around to that strat yet, i limit my arcana to 50% and then just rely on judgement. it is a super fun randomized way to play

i need to take out my notepad lmao

gonna try that next

[indigo viper]

Most my 32f runs was with a strength, dmg reduction makes so much different to me.
I did VoR Typhon and Chronos with strenght too.
Buuuut vor + high fear turn these fights into insane bullets hell imo. Sometimes I can barely see (or didn't see) what hit me and why I lose chunk portion of my hp, lol.
Not to mention a lot insta kills moves which bypass strenght. Plus lot of ways to recover and make dd stronger
Adds all of this and voila - you have hidden, huge nerf of the strenght arcana. xD

[finite narwhal]

im definitely increasing the vow that reduces arcana and then only using strength. if anything it will make me avoid damage a lot more lol

[polar ravine]

any hints on doing the greater surface chaos run?

[wary bison]

anyone got any shiva builds? idm anything fun

[rigid fiber]

Incandescent Aura since you spending a lot of magic

[wary bison]

oo

[thin cloud]

Is engraved pin good? Seems like it screws you in boss encounters

[forest hinge]

did smth change with the Gorgon Amulet? it feels like it never procs for me now, as in Athena is never showing up, even if i equip it AND go to Olympus

[tough pasture]

The torches are now my favorite weapon in the game. When I first started, I disliked them but now they're easily my favorite. All 4 apects of torch very from strong (yes, even eos) to ultra strong.

[tough pasture]

Yes, it's really good but you have to know when to use it.

Idea for a build:

If you combine pin + with early athena stalwart stand defiance boon (one in each location) with hades last gasp boon, you can get like 330+% damage by the time you fight chronos in tartarus.

[willow phoenix]

Do you have DD on?

Personally I've never had Athena not proc ngl, Athena always appears in the first viable encounter which

[willow phoenix]

I'm really liking Eos tbh

[tough pasture]

Yeah, I know the speed running community doesn't love it (especially given the alternatives) but I've grown to like eos and I like that it has been buffed now.

[thin cloud]

Yes but how would you get all that

[willow phoenix]

Start Athena keepsake then lose all DD in first room lol

[civic ocean]

Funny you should ask I just did something like this for a 52 fear clear with no-spin Nergal

[tough pasture]

It's easy. (It sounds complex but it's not.)

1. Don't use death defiance arcana card OR start with it and lose death defiances in 1st room
2. Start with athena keepsake in zone 1
3. Roll if you have to get stalwart stand
4. Get hades last gasp in tartarus
5. use pin keepsake from zone 2 to zone 4.

[civic ocean]

I only got Last Gasp to about 110% though

[willow phoenix]

Can't you equip pin from biome 2 to the end?

[tough pasture]

You can. I'll edit that above.

[thin cloud]

I gotta come up with more builds that revolve around non boon keepsakes

[civic ocean]

The more reasonable way to do it is to start Toula + 3 DDs, lose them all to speedrun Erebus, then take Athena for Biome 2

[willow phoenix]

Ah I forgot Toula existed lol

[tough pasture]

Every keepsake has a purpose. (It's just a matter of whether or not you know when to use it as your build comes together.)

For instance, the metallic droplet keepsake (which I never use) can be used by a skilled speedrunner to great effect on something like hel aspect.

(I just saw a speedrun where someone used it really really well.)

Most players opt for the olympian keepsakes but the best hades players know when to improvise...

[thin cloud]

I usually just use Olympian to fill out the boon pool I need for my build as quickly as possible

[civic ocean]

The beef I have with Droplet is that it lies sometimes

[thin cloud]

On a build such as this, isn’t it better to have the heph blessing on special?

[civic ocean]

What is your reasoning?

[tough pasture]

The way you'll go about trying to make you build (and what keepsakes you use) will almost change depending on what fear level you're playing at.

Once you're into the 50 fear level (depending on what vows your'e using) wil kinda dictate how you go about it surviving and advancing.

[thin cloud]

Only thing I usually change is last region I take lucky tooth

[tough pasture]

What fear level are you plyaing at? 10s? 20s? 30s?

[thin cloud]

If the entirety of the Persephone omega special can apply blast, that’s a lot of potential blasts you can spread around

[thin cloud]

About 34 as of now

[past salmon]

we just forgetting blast has a cd?

[thin cloud]

It does but I’ve noticed it sometimes behaves strangely on certain omegas

Like applying multiple times on different enemies as long as it’s still in the same omega

[civic ocean]

Good thinking! Unfortunately Only one enemy gets hit by a blast by the Omega Special IIRC, and to top it off, you cannot generate charge for the omega special while you are using the omega special. For those two reasons, It's usually a good idea to take a % based Omega special, which can be any of Hera/Apollo/Aphrodite I find

Because my run is using Excellence, Aphrodite is a good choice because her special scales very well with rarity

[thin cloud]

Is excellence worth using now?

[civic ocean]

Eh, probably not, but I am trying to see how far it can go, and if there are some builds that can use it well. Ideally you would just play Divinity and always hit, but I have found that getting things like Mutual Destruction, Success Rate, Lethal Snare, Killing Stroke, Chaos boons, etc etc scaling with rarity has made Excellence not bad.

[rocky pier]

No it’s still cheeks

[civic ocean]

idk, I definitely wouldn't call it cheeks. Just gotta use it right.

[rocky pier]

I mean I’d rather have origination, wouldn’t you?

[civic ocean]

If my first two takes of my run are usually Volcanic Strike and Flutter Flourish, what use do I have for Origination?

[rocky pier]

You have 3 other ways at least to apply curses??

[civic ocean]

Do I want to burn my rerolls and seek out 2 curses just so my omega special can go from 230% ->280% damage? That sounds "cheeks"

[rocky pier]

It’s 50% global damage, I’m pretty sure it applies last.

[past salmon]

nah instead im gonna take an arcana that does the exact same damage increase

[civic ocean]

it's additive

[rocky pier]

Like literally to every single hit

[past salmon]

wait

[rocky pier]

Excellence would be good if it was like 2 grasp

At 5 it’s way too expensive

[civic ocean]

well, it seems to be working for me atm so I am not sure what to tell you

[rocky pier]

It’s a 50% floor for rare, does not seem worth it

[civic ocean]

Well, no, not really. It's higher than 50% for any rare

It works very well with things that scale well off of rarity, like Heph Blasts, Aph attack/strike, Mutual Destrction, Hermes boons, Artemis Boons, Chaos Boons, etc etc

[rocky pier]

That’s not what the card says and I don’t believe that’s how it works. It’s a 50% chance that each boon is at least rare

[tough pasture]

btw, in athena's righteous pike...is each of her spears doing 250?

[civic ocean]

If you have 50% chance to get heads and you flip three coins (there are three boons), what are your odds to get a heads

[forest hinge]

its a +50% chance for Rares, on top of the default 10%(according to the wiki), which brings you to 60%

[rocky pier]

Each boon is flipped independently. So yes the probability that at least one is rare is now quite high but it’s certainly not guaranteed and isn’t worth 5 grasp.

[civic ocean]

How much value does it give you over the course of a run?

[rocky pier]

Imo not much, you’ll see plenty of midbosses

Look if it’s working for you, roll with it, I’m just saying it’s a bit of a noob trap and until/if they rework it the best advice is generally that you are better off with origination and the extra rerolls from the boatman

[civic ocean]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/1233146305308528650/1398495460980822047

So here's a really good example. Because Excellence helped me to rarify my other boons on this run, I was able to take Aromatic Phial at the end of Erebus and hit Mutual Destruction with it.

I then combined that with a rarified (thanks Excellence!) Success Rate. That increased the % chance for Mutual destruction to trigger by about 25 total % points!

What do you think is more damage, 25% multiplicative or 50% additive?

[forest hinge]

yeah its seems that each spear deals ~250, and each spear has to target a different enemy than the last. If you take an aspect that spends mana really fast(like Shiva) i can see Righteous Pike being a decent pick

[rocky pier]

It’s pretty good on weapons that burn magick in general too like Charon or nergal

[willow phoenix]

Yeah it's big damage

[lethal steeple]

I have been struggling to beat Typhon can anyone help with any builds that aren't on the skull or torches

[rocky pier]

Regular typhon?

[lethal steeple]

I think so

[rocky pier]

Aspect of Morrigan, get the Apollo attack and pray for the hammer that gives your combo 300% damage

[forest hinge]

Artemis Daggers for the Parry effect, if theres a specific attack or two that you're really struggling with

[lethal steeple]

Ok I'll def try those two thanks guys

[rocky pier]

Charon with Poseidon cast, prominence flare, local climate, geyser spout also still rocks

I’d say though if you’re really struggling the coat might be ideal for you since you can block stuff with it. Skull ospecial also makes you impervious

[tough pasture]

Yeah, I'm just realizing this. I had avoided taking it until this run (because of how the description is written). It says it does 250 damage...it didn't say it was 250 PER spear...like woah.

[willow phoenix]

If you're really struggling then focus on learning the fight imo

[civic ocean]

IIRC correctly it also does all 3 spears to one target in boss fights?

IIRC Correctly

[rocky pier]

I think weirdly that Prometheus is probably the hardest area boss in surface runs on average. At least for me.

Especially on rivals

[willow phoenix]

You should've tried it back with old torch and old possessed array, it was insane

Rip pike builds

[tough pasture]

Another build I missed out on... dammit.

/I know the feeling. Hades v1 people will never know the joy of 400% charged flight on beowulf with aphro special, posiedon dash, and their crazy duo boon.

[civic ocean]

New torch can do it fine it's just a bit lame because only the initial strikes can crit

I bet it goes wild on Moros though.

[forest hinge]

this build sounds interesting, but im kind of lost, couldn't you do the StalStand/LastGasp combo without bothering with the Pin at all? Sorry idk if im missing smth lol

[thin cloud]

If I’m using chain reaction attack heph on argent skull, is it better to use regular or omega attack to trigger it? Regular attack is easier to time chain reaction, but omega is stronger

[civic ocean]

The Pin may be a mistunderstanding - it is considered a Death Defiance effect but does NOT increase the damage % of Last Gasp.

[thin cloud]

It’s just to give you a fallback after no defiances, right?

[civic ocean]

It depends on the cooldown of the heph blast probably. If it's 2 seconds I would just throw out regular attack spam willy nilly, the timing is pretty lenient

[tough pasture]

You could but I'm trying to remember why haelian used the pin. (I think it was just insurance iirc. I could also be misremembering somehow with another run I watch.)

I watched a recent haeilien vid where he demonstrated this (because one of his chat members suggested it) and it worked well.

I think the pin was just to make sure that they had insurance.

[civic ocean]

Ideally you get Echo to refill your defiances (four with toula) and you can even take Luckier Tooth as well to enter Tartarus with 6 death defiances

You only have to trigger Stalwart Stand around 10 or so times after you lose the first four DDs to have Last Gasp at around 100% global damage increase.

[lethal steeple]

I feel I can dodge the attacks relatively consistently but I just don't think I'm doing much damage because it was like 5 min before he got the scars

[forest hinge]

can you reroll Hades boons? if not what do u do lol? also would you go full 10 rerolls with ur arcana?

[tough pasture]

Someone kindly shared the video of haelian doing the stalwart + last gasp build on haelian's discord.

You're right. Pin isn't necessary. (It could just be insurance.)

https://youtu.be/6UNl3CVxvjo?si=W0iXId1MXazUlKQ0

[tough pasture]

Yes, you have to keep 3 rolls (1+2) just in case he doesn't give it to you initally.

[forest hinge]

ah ok good to know. would u go all-in on rerolls, or just the base 3?

[civic ocean]

The person who recommended it to Haelian (or Haelian himself) could have been confused because Engraved Pin DOES count as a Death Defiance effect in every other way shape and form

[tough pasture]

Well I normally play with 10 rolls and I usually have 5-6 entering tartarus. 3 rolls (1 for first roll + 2 for 2nd roll) should be enough to get it.

[tough pasture]

Yeah, it's probably why I got confused too. But there's no way to double dip, right? (Just checking in since moros requires you to clear room in 10 seconds to restore the death defiance with 60 health.)

[civic ocean]

No, Engraved Pin is not counted as a death defiance for the purposes of Last Gasp, even if you don't clear the encounter in 10 seconds (I'd imagine it is probably to prevent abuse, since Engraved Pin could be taken and triggered 30-40 times a run pretty easily, and then last Gasp would be giving you 400% increased Global damage)

I suspect that is probably how one defeats Chronos wile doing nothing

[rocky pier]

Do the hammers that buff attacks affect oattack on nergal? Specifically seething marauder and colossus slash?

[civic ocean]

If it says Attacks plural it should affect the omega attack

[rocky pier]

I didn’t get psychic whirlwind so if neither of these buff oattack I’m just gonna take the dash strike one

Both say attacks

[civic ocean]

Then yeah they work

[rocky pier]

I guess I’ll take the 60 damage one but I’m skeptical it works

[civic ocean]

Would be an f10 then

[tough pasture]

tangential question didn't athena's stalwart stand replace the original moros pin?

[civic ocean]

For as long as I have been playing this game Engraved Pin has been the same

[past salmon]

Moros pin is almost entirely unchanged since the start of EA

[civic ocean]

The only change being it no longer working with Strength, essentially

[past salmon]

the only thing I can recall changing is that it didnt use to count as a DD effect

[civic ocean]

Yeah IIRC Warsong made Pin a DD effect

[tough pasture]

You're right. I was confusing it for the synergy it had with strength arcana card which SgG removed.

(Tagging @past salmon as well since he responded too.)

[civic ocean]

I like the change, especially since with each patch and update the game gets more player-friendly

[forest hinge]

@tough pasture whats a strong weawpon for this "Last Stand" build(im so clever ahahah)? i was gonna do Morg but 40F is my dagger cap rn lol, maybe Medea??

[civic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqFokVRCSrQ tangentially related to it, here's a 52 fear run on no-spin Nergal that takes advantage of this strategy

[tough pasture]

medea, moros, eos, nergal, charon, anubis, shiva (in that order for me)

[civic ocean]

You can do it with spin though - really, Last Gasp is global damage % so anything with high power, attack speed, Ares 2x effects and/or crit works well

[tough pasture]

Btw, is the appeal of ares that he gives speed buffs with some duo boon synergies? (He's the olympian I have used the least.)

[civic ocean]

The appeal of Ares from like a theory perspective is that he buffs your damage in ways that are different than any other regular god normally does it

Plasma makes you hit faster (sometimes), Mutual Destruction and Grievous Blow are multiplicative scaling, and Wounds increase Power. These are all pretty rare benefits to get! So Ares works really well as a damage god alongside the more conventional stuff like Aphrodite or Zeus.

Vicious Strike/Flourish in particular have really nice Synergy with Huntress and Origination - the added Power works well with those % scaling boons and doesn't give you as much diminishing returns

[rocky pier]

Is Shadow Pounce or Pressure Points better on spin nergal? My guess is pressure points since it’s hard to fit in a dash but wanted to check

[tough pasture]

Mutual Destruction and Grievous Blow are multiplicative scaling, and Wounds increase Power

Wait...mutual destruction and grevious blow are multiplicative?!?!?! I didn't know that...

[civic ocean]

I can't remember if you can dash to activate spin?

[rocky pier]

The appeal of ares is the damage of grievous blow and to a lesser extent mutual destruction like East said

You can’t dash into spin lol

[civic ocean]

They are global multiplicative damage.

[rocky pier]

So yeah not going to bother with shadow pounce

[civic ocean]

Then not that one lol

I literally never spin with nergal damn lol

[tough pasture]

I remember when I tried to figure out the hades 1 math for damage calculation...I learned that SgG made most damage additive. So multiplicative modifier in hades 2 is big.

[civic ocean]

Yeah it's its own damage bucket

So you can use Huntress and Origination to make up for the relatively low % increase that Vicious gives you, and then get Grievous Blow to up the damage multiplicatively

And then if you're extra brave, mix in an Antler

[forest hinge]

last patch i would do zone4 Supay HeatRush w/Antler and i was KILLLLLLLLING

[formal pulsar]

so trying to think out loud. what do you guys think is the ideal 4 gods for heph blasts builds. I think the best duo are chain reaction, rude awakening. everything after that can situational. seismec servo is good if you got unlucky start or you didnt roll enough poms but redundant otherwise so that's out. cryo pounder is really good especially with rude awakening and grand caldera but that 50% becomes that much bigger. I like love handles more because it opens up sunny disposition duo since you want apollo anyway and you want aphro anyway on the special. with sunny dis, love handles becomes a really good, but it is not required since you want aphro anyway for the special and the % buffs from shameless and sweet surrender if you didnt get heart breaker/duo stuff.

so I think the ideal 4 gods are heph, apollo, aphro and hestia. with hera keepsake later for extended family. thoughts?

[tough pasture]

I don't know about ideal but i'm partial to 4 you mentioned: heph + apollo + aphro + hestia. (If i can't get hestia, i go for demeter.)

[forest hinge]

ok i took Gorgon Amulet all the way to the end of zone 2, and NOTHING

[formal pulsar]

did you have dds?

or toula

[forest hinge]

is it because i was taking Chaos boons?? i took like 4 lol

oki yeah im stupid. new run, spent all my DDs, next room athena shows up ._.

[tough pasture]

I just watched this at 1.5x speed. Things got dicey for you in mourning fields when you were down to just 1 health but congrats on pulling through.

ETA: I also like that the game doesn't force the user to use up echo's DDs if you have athena's stalwart stand. Allows player better chance of being successful in the run given that bosses/guardians are the biggest challenge in super/ultra high fear.

[rigid fiber]

Rude awakening+Cryo Pounder+Furies+Origination turns 400 damage blast into nearly 2k

[willow phoenix]

Heph Apollo Hestia Poseidon

Cryo Pounder is much weaker than Rude Awakening, also kinda bad against bosses since it doesn't work during freeze cd

Sadly backstab doesn't work with blast anymore but Rude Awakening got buffed

[formal pulsar]

so why poseidon over aphro? so i like aphro because you want a good high % special and it opens up two supplement damage path, either burning desire scorch if you have hestia cast or sunny dispo with love handles path plus she has two boons that can boost global damage: shameless and sweet. I can see poseidon if you low rolled the boon rarity or the poms but without that. I think aphro brings more

[willow phoenix]

Love Handles is pretty dependent on sunny dispo. And honestly if you're doing Heph and Perse skull you're pretty likely to hit 2 sec blast, which gets to 1 sec with Poseidon

[formal pulsar]

is that a true 1s CD or 1.4 sec rounded down on the tooltip but actually 1.4s?

[willow phoenix]

Not sure actually, but still a huge improvement from the vibes when I tried it

[civic ocean]

Elysium!?!?

[formal pulsar]

i looked over what people are saying, and the cd becomes 1.48s not really 1s

[tough pasture]

mourning fields...

<lol> my bad

[civic ocean]

I completely forgot I was at one hp

[west thunder]

What’s the standard build with Personphone skull?

[civic ocean]

wdym standard

Usually just any source of olympian damage and then a high % damage special works fine

[west thunder]

Standard just meaning the typical cookie cutter build. First time trying it. Thanks

[civic ocean]

I think heph attack is good, storm ring is good, flutter flourish is good

[forest hinge]

are there any other interesting boonless Keepsake builds?

[civic ocean]

I'm not sure - I remember way back in Olympic update I think I did Lion Fang 50f start with staff

[harsh blade]

does anyone remember the old cooldown on artemis parry?

[stable herald]

I think it was like 15 seconds?

[lucid tide]

Anyone got any tips on how to deal with Frenzy? I started using it to make myself get used to it early on.

[spiral wadi]

i think u just gotta play it to get used to the speed up and work on reaction, i think frenzy 1's a good place to start then frenzy 2 after getting comfortable with 1

once u get to rivaled guardians, i'd hard recommend just turning off frenzy until you understand the rivals bosses, then frenzy 1, then 2

[harsh blade]

I really don't know which rooms to take during a run. It seems like the pros have an understanding of what rewards can and will come up and can plan ahead. Does anyone know about this and explain or is there anywhere for me to read up on this?

[spiral wadi]

i think it's just a skill of knowing what kind of builds you tend to go for surrounding ur weapon and thus which items will best serve your success, and it's really a do-it-over-and-over-until-you-know

once u do it over and over u'll have some intuition of knowing when certain specific room types like minibosses or end shop will show up, and which rooms have a chance at fountain (for example, trial god rooms cannot be a fountain for obvious reasons, but if you have time you might risk it anyway)

u can also look at the location number while looking at ur boons (top right)

for example on erebus, location 11 will always be your last standard room before end shop/item

[harsh blade]

I never that things worked like this, I never paid attention to it. Does Erebus truly end at 11? what about other regions?

[spiral wadi]

good question, i never check location numbers for oceanus, tho fields is always 4 and tartarus is at minimum 5, usually 6 since hades shows up very frequently

[harsh blade]

I saw Boated talk about rooms that didn't have a menu reward as a "skip room". Does taking these "skip rooms" get you to the end of a region faster? How does taking boss rooms influence things?

[gray kindle]

Was scorch probability rates when collecting a boon turned down or am I just getting unlucky? I haven't gotten scorch from hestia since a few patches ago, and it's starting to feel like rip scorch/hitch/twin blades which has been my fav build for a while now

[spiral wadi]

i think the boss room just counts for standard room count, they just tend to go faster than regular encounter waves

it's possible the skip room refers to chance at a special encounter like artemis, nemesis, etc

[harsh blade]

so the special encounters are what speed things up? or is it because they stop the timer?

[spiral wadi]

ye, since artemis rooms stop the timer, and nemesis either stops the timer if she's fighting with you or will go faster than a regular encounter anyway

primarily regarding situations w/ vow of time

[harsh blade]

yeah, I've been trying to get better at managing my time. I'm trying to figure out the difference between my runs and runs on youtube.

[spiral wadi]

it definitely boils down to just building up a sort of intuition

[past salmon]

any room reward that has a menu (ie boons and poms) are ineligible for Artemis Nemesis or Caccoons

fountains can be anything tho

[spiral wadi]

oh yea that reminds me never use artificer in web rooms, you can't pick up menu items while enemies are on screen

[harsh blade]

thats good to know, from both of you

[past salmon]

in speedruns its pretty common to start taking only "non-menu" rooms once you are atleast somewhat comfortable with your build
There is only so much a pom can do so taking a heart room over it to potentially get a free room (or free room + arty boon) can be very worth it

boons are still generally taken pretty often if its from a desireable god, tho sometimes skipped late oceanus

[spiral wadi]

hm, i will take that advice too

[harsh blade]

I see, I guess because I usually go for boons over reagents I miss out on these free opportunities, which leads to potentially longer times

[past salmon]

tbf its not exactly the most imporant things in speedruns

plenty of very fast runs out there that just never luck out and miss most of the potential skips

oh I should say that Surface is somewhat the opposite

Heracles and Icarus can spawn in any room and its actually better to take menu rooms so you can wait out their animations while inside the menu
Artemis is still locked to non menu rooms (so specifically heart and magick rooms in Ephyra) but shes so rare its kind of not something to think about for the most part

[harsh blade]

And what about extra helpers like circe and narcissus? are there ways to miss out on them or am I just losing my mind?

[past salmon]

npc rooms are just chance unfortunately
or well
Echo and Dad room are technically guaranteed (tho echo sometimes doesnt appear in extremely rare circumstances)

[spiral wadi]

that reminds me, if ur using denial and you get an early onion (whether by first "boon" in erebus, or artificier-ing a minor reward in oceanus into an onion), if your god keepsake procs once, you can take a shop/npc room instead and the god keepsake will proc again

[harsh blade]

are there special types of rooms that can come up again if you pick something else? I heard that the game will always try to get you at least two hammers per run

[spiral wadi]

it's typically 1 hammer during erebus/oceanus, and another hammer during fields/tartarus

[past salmon]

hammers have stuff to do with the reward bag which I've never full understood
There is a pretty good writeup on it somewhere in the speedrun discord if ur in there

[harsh blade]

if it's not this discord, then I must not be in. could I get an invite?

[past salmon]

#self-promotion message

[harsh blade]

Thanks, also red said that erebus ends at a specific room number. Is this true for other regions and if so, what's there numbers?

[past salmon]

uhhh off the top of my head
Erebus Endshop is Chamber 12
Oceanus Endshop is Chamber 23
Fields is uhhhhhhh should be 31? I think? (might be wrong)
Tart is smth idk its 5 rooms long u can figure it out

idk Ephyra I just pay attention to Pylons but if you take min rooms in Ephyra Thessaly endshop is I belive C26?
cant remember Olympus I think its around 38

[spiral wadi]

wait oceanus is chamber 23? damn it always felt shorter

[harsh blade]

wait side rooms count towards the number?

[past salmon]

remember you dont actually start Oceanus until C15 or smth so

[spiral wadi]

ah ur right

[past salmon]

I think so
I cant fully remember

[harsh blade]

whats the C in front of the number for? or is that just count

[lucid tide]

okay thank you so much

[past salmon]

also all these numbers obviously change if u take anything other than the shortest route
Like extra rooms in tart, a chaos gate at the very end of a biome etc

[past salmon]

just short for Chamber lol

[harsh blade]

ahh I got it lol. Chaos counts towards it too?

[past salmon]

yeh

normally they just fill in for the chamber you would normally get but if you take them right before endshop it adds an extra chamber

[harsh blade]

I see, I'm gonna have to do some runs to see what counts. Thank you both for your time, I'll do some snooping around in the speedrunners discord as well. Its way too late for me. Y'all take care

[past salmon]

https://discord.com/channels/940392249844465694/1217110571858792458
is likely to answer most of your questions

[harsh blade]

👍

[spiral wadi]

oh sick

random thing i recalled recently, i remember only having epic hestia scorch at lv1 (80 scorch/second), but it seemed to still manage to stack scorch

[past salmon]

on cast?

[spiral wadi]

yea

[past salmon]

if so
its currently bugged with medea (and I think snuffed candle and mean streak?) to for some ungodly reason stack extra scorch

[spiral wadi]

was playing circe but i know the casts weren't stacked on top of each otehr

crazy

[past salmon]

this same bug also buffs storm rings damage (??)

[spiral wadi]

huh i was wondering if scorch was getting affected by damage multipliers for some reason

[sly plaza]

Scorch remains undefeated it seems

[spiral wadi]

scorch meta supreme

i really want to bring a circe scorch cast thru a high fear run, tho i keep getting skill issue'd rn lmao

[spiral wadi]

does it just strike more or

[past salmon]

nah it just gets the damage bonus
Which is weird on medea
you would think it makes sense for mean streak and snuffed but those are actually not global boosts for everything else, only weapon damage (also confusing literally why?)

[spiral wadi]

ooh yea that's weird 💀

hopefully they change the descriptions in 1.0 to clarify for "Attacks/Specials"

wait what does medea aspect have to do with it

[past salmon]

storm ring currently gets the +90% damage from it 💀

[spiral wadi]

HUH

does this apply to any other cast

[past salmon]

just smolder
but
makes it stack more instead
idk bro its so goofy

[spiral wadi]

maybe i gotta read more into the code now cuz now i'm super curious

recently been trying to make sense of at least most of the code rn, interested in making a mod that creates replay data that the game can play back

solely for me specifically so i can play on deck and record at higher quality on laptop

[tall notch]

??????????

thats so strange, i have some words the automod bot would not be pleased to hear about this

[spiral wadi]

this really is a storm ring meta

[spiral wadi]

also was skimming thru the speedrun posts and didn't see anything about this, would it be worth it for me to (maybe) post about this

[indigo viper]

Similar problem like unseen card.

[indigo viper]

Then try Moros' torches with Hera attack, Zeus special, Hera's/Poseidon's mana regen boon and stack as much mana and "extra hit on omega attack" as you can.

[glass shell]

realistically, no. because this is how it has always worked

the only difference is that now there's a visual indicator when the keepsake procs

it doesn't actually "consume" the keepsake until you get that gods boon

[spiral wadi]

i'm pretty sure with no forfeit, if you miss a god room, you lose it entirely, and with forfeit it's two god rooms before you lose it entirely

at least for that region

that's what i distinctly remember during no forfeit runs

[glass shell]

define what you are talking about with "proc"ing your god keepsake cause it might just be me misunderstanding

[spiral wadi]

"proc" as in changing the next god room to be that god

[glass shell]

Then, yes its always worked that way. The keepsake was never used up until you went to the room

99% sure

[spiral wadi]

hmmmm ig i'll have to test it later

[past salmon]

huh?
iirc this is always how its worked, until you actually pick up the god the keepsake isnt used

[spiral wadi]

i mean it as in controlling the next room to be that god, seems like im very wrong tho

i coulda sworn i had moments during olympus where if i skipped an onion god, then took a following onion god room, i never saw that god again

[spiral wadi]

ok yea just tested, it seems i was very wrong, idk where i got the idea from ig i got super unlucky

[lucid tide]

Could someone tell me how does scorch work exactly? If I inflict scorch 4 times does that mean it takes 400 damage in 4 seconds?

[hidden shale]

feel like besides old hidden coat, Hidden axe is the one ive not quite figured out . Usually try to go for attackspeed modifiers so mainly ares stuff tbh.

Generally feel like im missing sth about the way you should utilise it

[spiral wadi]

each attack you do with scorch will inflict that amount of scorch onto the enemy, and while enemies have scorch it'll tick down at a rate of 100 per second, or 16.6 scorch per tick, consuming 16.6 and dealing 16.6 damage per tick, plus modifiers. Damage modifiers don't affect consumption rate

[lucid tide]

So Pyro Technique increase the tick rate? Also is there a limit on how many scorches I can inflict on a foe? Oh and Coat’s special counts as multiple attacks?

[spiral wadi]

yea pyro technique increases tick rate, u'll typically only want to get it when u can reliably proc scorch consistently

scorch caps out at 999, and i believe coat special should proc scorch multiple times yes

[lucid tide]

kk tysm

[willow phoenix]

The omegas are generally the biggest damage dealing part of Nergal, especially O attack. Something like Weed Killer or Apollo legendary helps a lot with the omega damage output

[hidden shale]

damn that is kinda boring tho. If I wanna do omega might as well pick than tbh

but yeah noticed too that just spamming o attack was way better most of time. Just hoped I had missed sth

[glass shell]

o-special is also decent on nergal

but yeah the basic attack/special chain is asscheeks and you should almost never use it unless its to finish one one enemy or so

maybe if it left polyphemus walking waves when you hit the ground or something for a larger aoe the reg attack would be better but as is its just... always wrong to use

[hidden shale]

just feels like sorta wasted potential for the whole berserker concept q.q

[glass shell]

trust me i much prefer the regular attack cause i think the animations make mel look really funny

but its just is worse which is sad

[mellow condor]

should i take the hammer of 35% attack speed or 20+ power for lim oros hestia?

[glass shell]

honestly 20 power.

35% attack speed with lim oros is nice but you're likely already applying scorcher faster tahn it can deplete

[mellow condor]

oh i chose the speed thinking i could apply scorch,didnt know the limit was 999

[tall notch]

yeah the cap is new, i believe it got added with the unseen update?

[gaunt sapphire]

what are good god combos for descura

mel aspect btw

[tall notch]

I like blitz on special a lot. Ik some people like aphro a lot, hera can be an aphro alternative if you don't want the close range restriction

[brave dove]

yeah the cap got added when they buffed the hell out of scorch in unseen

[robust prism]

is the effect of athena's keepsake retained in the next zone if you take it off?

[glass shell]

Well

Elaborate actually.

Did you use the keepsake?

[robust prism]

no cause I'm an idiot

[glass shell]

then yes its still active but you need to have 0 dd's upon entering a non miniboss combat encounter.

[robust prism]

ok thanks

[desert shell]

Does night spawn affect dash strike as well? Does it multiply with the triple dash strike?

[glass shell]

i don't believe so.

[civic ocean]

https://youtu.be/nqFokVRCSrQ?si=dYs2tEOFQhKztO9l Nergal’s attack combo is actually really fun and totally fine, do your berzerker strats don’t listen to yappers here

[uneven palm]

Nightspawn does nothing for dash-strikes (or Omegas)

[formal pulsar]

did they remove boon boon boon? I dont i have ever seen it in my last 40 runs or something

[burnt sky]

So, I wanted to try an anubis run with Heph as attack max upgrade with Poseidon duo but apparently, even with 1s timer, the circle cannot proc a blast more than once. Instead, both the initial staff attack and the first circle tic can proc blast once.

Is this a bug or intented ?

[civic ocean]

Seismic Servo's Blasts are closer to 1.5s apart, the game can just only present one number so it rounds down to 1

[burnt sky]

Thanks for the info, but even considering 1.5s apart, the circle still do not proc more than once

At least I think

[civic ocean]

The time between the first attack and the end of the circle would have to be longer than 3 seconds, which is possibly a bug then

[burnt sky]

A circle can last around 5-6s when I try to time it

Considering that you cannot exactly choose your target among multiple ones with heph attack on anubis, I don't know if allowing at least a second proc would be OP.

Well, I should try with Hestia duo now to see if it works.

[glass shell]

Boonboonboon is disabled if you salute the oath

from my understanding it was considered problematic that you could set up save files with max pity + boonboonboon curated selections for the purposes of like speedrunning/high fear so they made oath disable both bad luck pity for npcs + boonboonboon

[olive sphinx]

wow common Supergiant W

[glass shell]

uncommon L more like

boonboonboon whatever sure disable it.

but i want my artemis pity

[formal pulsar]

oh wow didn't know that.

[civic ocean]

Real Echo knowers know that its all about Fightfightfight

[formal pulsar]

ngl I really want a mod to force artemis to spawn in the one hp room in ephyra. it makes such difference in the run with her boon and the timer

[civic ocean]

Just mod out the barrier ez timer

[glass shell]

feel free to feedback that artemis should have increased chances or show on doors like i have, every bit matters since we are only 1 patch from 1.0

[civic ocean]

Damn I just read some of the feedback hoo wee

[olive sphinx]

I'll go ahead and feedback that I see artemis too often and I think that her appearance rate should be toned down muhahah

[glass shell]

https://tenor.com/view/mulan-animated-cartoon-comedy-family-gif-3384747

[civic ocean]

I find so much of the commentary around fig leaf bewildering

[glass shell]

How so? I think its pretty self explanitory that fig leaf is poorly designed

Original fig leaf was good in theory, turned out bad because of the abuse case of just taking it in tartarus

[civic ocean]

Most of the justifications for it being poorly designed are based around decisions that other players make, and arbitrary distinctions that they've decided upon.

[glass shell]

So you think it would be ok for god keepsakes to never show the god then by that logic?

[civic ocean]

Yes, I think it is okay that if you take Onion you can take a god keepsake in Thessaly and not get that god. That's how rogeulike games work

[glass shell]

And in every other region?

[civic ocean]

How does it follow mechanically that a god keepsake shouldn't show you that god

[glass shell]

It follows because its your logic.

[civic ocean]

How is that related to fig leaf

[glass shell]

Fig leaf has a chance to not proc and you consider that to be ok so therefore we should make god keepsakes never proc either sometimes

Fig leaf has an literally useless heroic so all of them should by your logic

[civic ocean]

I consider fig leaf not proccing the same as Concave Stone choosing a boon I don't want, or Experimental Hammer giving me a hammer I don't want

[glass shell]

Fig leaf MUST be taken 1st or 2nd or it loses value, so lets just remove 33% of the power from each keepsake for each region you don't take it

[civic ocean]

This is literally not true and my prime example

[olive sphinx]

no no you pick fig leaf first region and immediately rush Cherished Heirloom in the first region, trust

[glass shell]

lol there is no way you are going to actually argue that you should take fig leaf first AND get a duo boon in the first 10 rooms of the run to make a heroic keepsake useful.

[civic ocean]

YOU decided that Fig Leaf isn't a good take in the game's first biome, ergo the Heroic on it is useless

[sage flame]

literally, leaf starts my beloved

[glass shell]

No, i decide that its way too conditional

If i get cherished heirloom biome 2/3/4 i don't get the 4th charge

[civic ocean]

That doesn't make the heroic useless

[sage flame]

fig lets me be bad at erebus at high fear and still get away with it

[glass shell]

Yes, it does make it useless

[civic ocean]

Do you get more mana on silver wheel if you get the heroic after it's equipped in an earlier biome

[glass shell]

If it retroactively gave me a 4th charge i honestly wouldn't have ground to stand on

[olive sphinx]

hear me out: Judgement arcana + crystal figurine first region + force cherished heirloom first region 🔥 🔥 🔥 ???

[glass shell]

No, because it gave me instant benefit which fig leaf can choose not to do

Again its not one thing isolation, its everything thats wrng with fig leaf

[sage flame]

holy based

[civic ocean]

Fig Leaf's instant benefit being a chance based effect doesn't mean it shouldn't work mechanically identically to the wheel

You choose Fig Leaf as a keepsake because you value what it does including the idea that it can and sometimes will miss

That's not any different than experiemental hammer or embryo

[glass shell]

It can literally not proc

It has a useless heroic, if you really want to argue that its too narrow to require 2 specific gods, 3 boons, two of them the prereq and the 3rd the duo boon AND you take fig leaf all in the first region of the game then sure it has a .0000000001% use case

It doesn't carry it charges that do fail to proc to the next region

It MUST be taken 2nd or you lose value

There are so many things wrong with fig leaf

[olive sphinx]

if you try to speedrun and the fig leaf misses it just doesnt feel fun because you just kinda waste a ton of time because the whole run is then scuffed, i think that's the issue people have?

[glass shell]

And this in isolation is perfectly acceptable

EG- Old fig leaf. If you missed well thats gamba baby

Its the problem with EVERYTHING ELSE

[sage flame]

i love h1 sack 🙏 in h2

[civic ocean]

Yeah if you try to speedrun and you don't get good encounters the run is also over that is how this game works!

[sage flame]

but also

[civic ocean]

If you are speedrunning Hades 2 you are in tacit agreement that you are pulling the levers on a slot machine to an extent!

[sage flame]

i havent been burned by missing a fig proc yet so i got no beef with it

[olive sphinx]

i mean yeah.. but like if SGG can make it more fun for speedrunners why shouldnt they? at the end of the day the games are for maximizing fun and make it less tedious.. Ppl dont like speedrunning tedious games

[glass shell]

Again if fig leaf could just scam you, that'd be fine

If it just had a useless heroic, well that sucks but its fine according to sgg - see echos keepsake

If it just was incredibly narrow in its use cases, well thats nothing new either tons of keepsakes are narrow in biomes

All of these issues exist at the same time and more

[civic ocean]

The heroic isn't useless again you just keep saying that

[glass shell]

CH retroactively upgrading your keepsakes would be fine to me as well, ill feedback that next

[olive sphinx]

i mean..... it kinda is lmaoo

[glass shell]

Because, it is.

[civic ocean]

It's only useless if you make decisions that make it so

[glass shell]

Homie you cannot actually be arguing that a .0000001% case where it gets value is "useful"

[civic ocean]

Fig Leaf start is actually I think pretty good in Ephyra, and I do plan to use it

[glass shell]

And that'd be fine if that was all it was

But you also

Need AT LEAST 3 boons in that first biome

Of those 3 boons 2 gods need demeter and hera

Specifically need 1/5 core boons on both of those gods

Specifically need the 3rd+ boon to be from those gods and roll a 10-22% with queen chance for a duo (odds may be off off the top of my head)

All within the first biome.

That is useless

[civic ocean]

All of those things are requirements for any biome 1 keepsake

Like you've never got cherished heirloom biome 1?

[glass shell]

Correct, and no other keepsake stays for the rest of the game and is biomed limited

[civic ocean]

Tough luck it's like THE easiest duo to get

[sage flame]

at least CH prereqs are extremely popular boons to get, hera attack/special/gain, arctic ring esp

[olive sphinx]

true true

[sage flame]

but i think i do gotta agree fig level 4 just is too specific a thing to regularly capitalize on

[glass shell]

Fig leaf counts biomes, not rooms, not encounters not anything else

Fig leaf doesn't get upgraded and that sucks because the upgrade is specifically about getting the 4th region value. And again, in other regions you don't have this problem with other keepsakes

[civic ocean]

I think having really niche applications for heroic keepsakes is totally fine

[olive sphinx]

it's like saying pre-unseen Ghost Onion is useful and ppl compaining about it being useless just because they make decisions ot make it useless 💀

[glass shell]

If hecate upgrades level 4 in tartarus its the exact same as in erebus

If discordant bell upgrades in mourning fields and not erebus, sure it wouldn't been nice to stack higher earlier but it still works just fine

[civic ocean]

But calling it useless is just extrapolating from your own decision making

[glass shell]

No, its not

[civic ocean]

Ghost Onion DID have uses pre-unseen though, particularly for newer players?

[olive sphinx]

Luckier tooth did exactly that but better, so not really....

[civic ocean]

There are multiple biomes

[sage flame]

i mean if they want to save luckier tooth for later yeah

[olive sphinx]

there are more other keepsakes that will benefit even new players more idk

[glass shell]

If you REALLY want to be pedantic about it, then yes something is not literally useless if it has a use case no matter how narrow

However when you actually use nuance yes it was factually useless

[civic ocean]

Well again like you decided it was useless because you don't value the niche applications of it

This is nergal attack combo all over again

[olive sphinx]

it's like saying that the Unseen arcana is useful for new players, when in fact it is still useless because you use up 5 grasp that you could spend somewhere else that benefits everyone much more

like... we can fairly confidently say when something is 99.9% useless