h2-builds-and-combat

[wild pine]

It's also kinda cute because plasma uses a Greek root although the Greeks didn't use it fir blood as far as I know

[civic ocean]

idk about mentions of blood there is like blood on the ground pretty regularly in this game

I think it has more to do with plasma being yellow and easier to notice

[wise idol]

yeah it def was not for ratings lol

the name "blood drops" would not increase this games rating at all

its just a thematic name for a color change to improve visual clarity

[austere crest]

Does anyone know if Glorious Disaster is supposed to proc after detonating a regular Cast with the Aspect of Charon Omega Special?

[quasi mica]

doesn't work with charon

used to work and got patched out so safe to assume it's not supposed to

[turbid mantle]

does hestia's legendary block eris's attacks?

[austere crest]

Thanks for confirming! I vaguely remembered it working before, but I didn't know it got patched out. Kind of a shame really, it always leaves a bad impression when you can get a Boon or perk that doesn't work the way you expect it to 🥲 (I had a whole build idea around Glorious Disaster and Aspect of Charon, so finding out that it doesn't work was a bit of a let-down)

[stable lichen]

i know that (am a vet student)

but still its kind of a weird thing

you cant really bleed plasma unless ares boons come with a handy centrifuge to separate all the cellular material

perhaps something like

idk

flesh chunks or viscera could work better with ares' gory theme

[sage flame]

tbf I don't think it has to make a lot of sense and im fine with them changing it to plasma, makes it seem a bit more magical in a way, maybe it's just the color lol

[sage flame]

it has a multiple second internal cooldown so I would bet it might only block one shot

[stable lichen]

makes sense

ive just seen the word "plasma" too many times in a veterinary context so that word is basically ruined for me lol

[sage flame]

yeah lmao I believe it

[stable lichen]

one of my cats is named ares

his blood results came back the other day with stuff like plasma protein levels and all i could think of was hades 2 ares plasma lol

[sage flame]

ares (real)

[spiral wadi]

poseidon's still surprisingly good from my experience messing with him, yea it sucks his splash has an internal cd but froth is insanely cracked

[burnt sky]

Any tips for turning Natural selection (Demeter + Poseidon duo) into something worthwile to setup early ?

Because the previous duo was at least something that I could use sometimes, but here I just don't know. Having at the maximum +4 to 2 core boons is just not worth imo.

[nova pivot]

can you get a godsent hex on aspect of selene coat?

[cerulean panther]

Yes, you need to start the run with Ares's keepsake.

[nova pivot]

and is it worth it to try and do so if you can? I've been mostly just taking the selene keepsake right at the beginning

ares specifically?

[cerulean panther]

Yes.

Each Godsent Hex is specific to an Olympian, Ares is Sky Fall.

[nova pivot]

OHHH I did not understand how that mechanic worked until now

[cerulean panther]

It's gone through some changes since it was introduced.

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1396314750379360328/fr.mp4 editing a circe video and found a funny hitbox moment, didn't even notice it during the run

[civic ocean]

I also have been hit by this and gotten very sad about it

[spiral wadi]

it's cerberus so it's ok

[civic ocean]

I think though I might be mistaken that this is an isometric thing

[spiral wadi]

hm, like the hitbox gets measured weirdly?

[civic ocean]

Yeah

[spiral wadi]

wack

[swift ibex]

I'm okay with the way it is, but I do wonder if there should be a cap on how much speed and attack you can get with plasma...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389605976208179202/1396337208365154374/2025-07-19_20-41-20.mp4?ex=687db7dd&is=687c665d&hm=7ae22e703179f5874dafb47675a039480def166b4968f20be7ff985961a78834&

[modern egret]

is vow of denial only for the first boon or every single one?

[spiral wadi]

denial affects every boon selection

so if u pick any boon during selection, the other 2 boons will be gone for the rest of the night

helps to narrow down boons if ur keeping note of which boons are struck (the boon list lets u see which ones are cut)

[modern egret]

Ty

[tall notch]

Am i the only person who won't run that in low to mid level fear? That's usually where I experiment and boons removing themselves from my pool means I can't experiment with quite as many of them

[spiral wadi]

idk, i find that i end up keeping denial on anyway, and if the build i go for ends up not going in a particular direction i intended for, it's still driving me towards adapting to a different build instead

prob easier to get builds u plan for/want to try without denial tho

[tall notch]

Like i will go with the flow in higher fear, but when I'm doing something lower (between 32 and 40) denial isn't one of the vows I'll keep on because it kind of discourages testing boons

With denial you do wanna bring stuff you know will help the build

[spiral wadi]

i feel like i gotta disagree because denial led me into heat rush during a froth run, which i consistently avoided until that point, and it hits

i do get that at like higher fear, you'd ideally have a very good of sense of what boons are good/not good, or rather what boons you're able to make the most good out of, but as someone who's exclusively run 55f for the past few days, i still find myself trying new builds just to see what i can do with them, even if they don't actually make it to the end or whatever

[tall notch]

I guess we just play differently, I've been ruined by denial enough times I'll basically always take boons i already know are good instead of building for potential with stuff I haven't tried

[spiral wadi]

like at one point i had on circe staff: apollo attack hestia gain double attack hammer, and i realized too late that i was supposed to just stand still and spam attack to get most damage, even tho i lost shortly after realizing that i had fun finding a funny gimmick that i could later use in an actual run if i found myself in a similar spot

[spiral wadi]

LOL fair, i just keep a mental note of which boon givers i've taken too much already and try to avoid them

[tall notch]

Is that old circe?

[spiral wadi]

like i know if i never get blast from heph, i have 2 non-core boons from him before he hits me with "ok take a core or i'll kill you"

nah i never used old circe

[tall notch]

It's so weird to see someone talk about a new circe build and not center it around new cast

[spiral wadi]

oh i use circe cast build a lot, it makes casts so much stronger it's funny

i think my favorite is heph cast, tho i think my main(?) run i go for is froth cast with cast gust

alternatively froth atk/special, aphro cast, and cast gust if i get lucky

froth is so insanely good, makes me think that even tho i haven't use pan, as long as you have splash special with froth on it, feels like you'd still get a ton of froth value

it's prob why they put splash on a cd

[tall notch]

Wouldn't pan do better with an actually good special and froth cast

[spiral wadi]

should clarify my line since it prob got confusing, pan with special froth proc should get insane froth value yea

plus the atk/special froth boon gives bonus froth damage

ig the initial cast damage also helps

[tall notch]

I heard that boon's pom scaling is multiplicative but idk if it's true

[spiral wadi]

yea, you can see how much it affects froth in the tooltip now, same with scorch

like if you have +20%, the tooltip will change from 50 to 60

it's why i got confused when i thought scorch naturally did 150 scorch/sec

ah pom scaling, idk i haven't checked

but i mean you're going to be using multihit builds to spam proc froth and it'll be buffed by global/olympian modifiers anyway

so i never pom froth boon

maybe if they made base lower and lv 2 and 3 higher i'd consider it

[tall notch]

But here's the thing, this pom scaling damage is allegedly multiplicative with Olympian dmg modifiers which would make pomming froth insanely good

[spiral wadi]

oh wait a minute 🤔

isn't it multiplying the base damage anyway, effectively making the olympian modifier apply more strongly

[tall notch]

I think that's what's happening yes

[spiral wadi]

hm, well i don't recall froth pom scaling very well, but i might have to check that later lol

i do remember that froth boon has insane rarity scaling tho

recently forgo'd charon card for excellence, it's surprisingly nice getting consistent rares

[tall notch]

If it is indeed multiplicative i can see why they wouldn't go insane on the pom scaling

[tall notch]

Uhh is that at onion fear levels

Idk what your 55 is

just run 58 you're so close

[spiral wadi]

i have never beaten chronos at 55 yet so i want to do that first lolol

yea i'm using max onion/denial

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1396423997717086400/image0.jpg

[tall notch]

Scars 1 and pain 1 is interesting

[spiral wadi]

i find most of my runs end at either scylla or cerberus, then i can usually get to chronos 3rd phase before i die

[tall notch]

Idk if you're doing this just take off r4 and do 58f (old 50+r3)

[spiral wadi]

nah i like the rivals challenge

[tall notch]

I will eventually bridge the gap to 62 but i wanna get more comfortable with this before i do super gramps

[spiral wadi]

the issue rn is that i can't even make it to chronos consistently meaning i can't practice him as much as i should be

[tall notch]

You'll get to appreciate the peak rivals sirens experience if you click pain 3 btw

[spiral wadi]

so i want to be able to at least get relatively consistent at his rival fight before i ramp up pain lol

[tall notch]

Want some saucy savestates of that fight?

[spiral wadi]

i have been developing relatively nice scylla strats, still a bit rocky but she's manageable

so i could ramp up pain 🤔 🤔

[spiral wadi]

i cooould but rn im fine just playing casually-competitively

[tall notch]

do it, by playing pain 1 you may underestimate certain moves because at that level they don't do much and get punished

[spiral wadi]

i already get punished a lot by scylla fight it's not good

but yea i'll ramp up pain later

[tall notch]

wait no i renamed my savestates and I don't remember which one is which 😭

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925113924855140417/1396425786935869450/Profile2.sav?ex=687e0a5b&is=687cb8db&hm=b20398bd030257ceadadd176f41495d4ea0d16be85efccd5e539d15ec1072afc& @spiral wadi gonna need you to try this one and tell me what build this is

[spiral wadi]

dam ok

[tall notch]

i just know its a sirens one

[spiral wadi]

ok wait this is really funny i might have to play torches for the first time to look at the build cuz i can't preview it

[tall notch]

do you wanna stream it in the speedcord

[spiral wadi]

sure

hold my laptop froze

[tall notch]

ah ok

[spiral wadi]

ok i think i have to un fullscreen hades 2 otherwise it implodes when i try to record it

[tall notch]

odd

[uneven palm]

I don’t take Denial at 32 anymore. I dunno that I’d recommend that to someone who just wants a clear for the statues, but yeah I skip it

[tall notch]

oh yeah, since i take it at what i consider high fear, i will recommend that people leave it on when they play on whatever they consider high fear

[brave dove]

I skip denial if I'm playing 4fun because it's brainwork but it's genuinely one of the easiest 2 fears and I think any other option at 32 is harder

[tall notch]

if 32 is high fear for you, denial is the easiest way of getting 2 points of fear. if youre chilling at 32, then yeah dont take it because it takes away some fun in buildmaking

[uneven palm]

For real if you’re high-fear-pilled Time, Frenzy, Rivals is just so much fear already

[brave dove]

strongest bosses 32 is a fun one even if it regularly owns me

[uneven palm]

Same, I need more practice with Pain 3

[tall notch]

maxxing rivals is and timer is probably one of the vows you should do later when it's a push. timer 2 frenzy 2 rivals 3 is still very reasonable for most fear pushers though

[brave dove]

idk I think the easiest 32 is running like, rivals 1 if that

[tall notch]

sirens and possibly cerb are fine at that low a fear

[brave dove]

surface I guess you could take rivals 2 ez

sirens is a huge difficulty spike IMO

[tall notch]

oh yeah im talking uw i dont play surface, and anyway at surface the highest fear the game expects casuals to hit is 24

[brave dove]

I still think they should revert that

[tall notch]

at 32 you can bruteforce

[brave dove]

surface rivals being easier than UW rivals balances them a lot fear-wise

[tall notch]

with rivals added they probs could, yeah!

[past salmon]

Simply get Hestia godsent imo imo

The most free Sirens fight around

[brave dove]

...huh

I've used night bloom a bunch to make hecate and sirens easier but yeah no that makes a tonne of sense

[past salmon]

Hestia godsent pretty much completely one shots a full phase of Sirens by itself

If you get lineage the fight doesn't exist

[brave dove]

hestia... nergal... 62...

[past salmon]

Smolder ring is never bad 🤷‍♂️
It's hard to set that up if you aren't starting Hestia tho

[glass shell]

do you save it for phase 2 🤔

[past salmon]

Since you have to get Hestia before the Selene and eugh

[past salmon]

If you don't have lineage yeah
If you do just use it once per phase lol

[glass shell]

oh yeah but getting 2 path of stars before then would be hard... unless you just take selene keepsake
in biome 2?

[past salmon]

Yeh

[brave dove]

I mean, yeah, moon beam region 2 is really good

[glass shell]

hmmm noted

[past salmon]

I moonbeam Oceanus if I get it

[tall notch]

wait so which hex was it that hestia empowers again?

[brave dove]

total eclipse

the phase transition nuke

[civic ocean]

Ah so you just drop Meteor on the Sirens twice

[brave dove]

I mean it helps with the drummer but hestia godsent applies a massive amount of scorch to every enemy in the encounter

[civic ocean]

Enough presumably to kill charibdeez nutz

[hoary quiver]

Can aspect of artemis parry chronos' instant-death AOEs?

[brave dove]

Yes

invulnerable is invulnerable

[dusk forge]

is 'born again' considered good? i can see how it is good for clearing rooms but surely you would run out of mana against bosses?

[tall notch]

jsut kill the boss before you run out of mana

[civic ocean]

Short answer - yes

Long answer - yes but with more math

If you're worried, pick up a couple of mana pots and avoid heavy primes

[glass shell]

probably the best mana boon in the game yeah

mana intensive builds tend to do a LOT of damage, cause they take up a resource, and when you math it out its a LOT of mana.

[unique igloo]

do yall think strength is better than death this patch?

[brave dove]

objectively no

[unique igloo]

do you think so because of the engraved pin change

[brave dove]

no I think because strength went from 200% ehp to 167% ehp

[glass shell]

pin changed way back in warsong homie

[dim kelp]

Born Gain is good because you don’t have to do anything special to regen magic, just keep channeling Ωs, and most builds can get to functionally infinite magick with just a few Soul Tonics, especially if you’re starting with Hecuba/Persistence.

Born Gain is, however, quite punishing if you misjudge how much max magick you’re gonna need, which is easy to do when you’re not very well-practiced at it. You won’t feel the insufficiency until you actually hit a longer fight (if you’re ever in danger of priming out in a normal fight, then you are really behind). It may not be intuitive, but every Soul Tonic you add increases your total usable magick by more than the previous one, which also means that taking a boon that permanently primes magick (e.g. Static Shock) can have an unexpectedly large negative impact on your total usable magick. Boons that add effects to your Ω moves for a flat additional magick cost can add up surprisingly quickly too, so it’s good to account for any that might be offered to you when deciding if your magick bar is sufficient.

Of course, Born Gain doesn’t give you any other utility, so if your build doesn’t actually need that much magick, you might prefer something else.

Also, Born Gain being a strong boon does not imply that investing in scaling is worthwhile. Rarity and Pom levels will pretty much always add less to your usable magick pool than a Soul Tonic. The amount of investment it takes for a Pom level to add more than a Soul Tonic is really high, and you’d have more magick than you could reasonably spend anyway.

For example, if you start at 150 (Hecuba + Persistence), common Born Gain gives you at least 640 magick to use during an encounter. A single Soul Tonic (30 magick) increases the pool to 900. Bumping that common Born Gain 3 rarity levels to Heroic (equivalent to Pomming the common 5 times) would only get you to 880.

Poms get proportionally better the more levels you have, but you’re much better off just taking a Soul Tonic, unless you have a way to jump many levels at once (e.g. high rarity Bridal Glow on a low rarity Born Gain, or a fat Queen’s Ransom).

[quasi mica]

The amount of mana born gain gives you is just the sum of an arithmetic progression so if you ever want to to check how much mana you have or how much you stand to gain/lose from changing your max or gaining levels you can look it up and there's online calculators you can use for that

Your first term is your max usable mana, your common difference is your born gain value (set this to a negative) and your number of terms is how many times you can prime before your mana bar is spent ie max amount divided by born gain value rounded down

Just playing around with a calculator like this during a run where you use born gain should give you a good idea of how it works in the future

[civic ocean]

Strength is way behind Death for me

I actually think that it's almost as invalidated by Scars 3 as Wayward Son is

I think one could make a pretty good case that Scars 3 should be 75-90% instead of 100% and everything about the game would be better

[tall notch]

do speedrunners click strength or DDs? if casuals can do either, high fear likes dds and speedruns like strength that'd be pretty reasonable balancing

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's true tbh

[dusk forge]

That is definitely some maths thank you, it overall makes sense to me. It seems it does seem to be an investment, usually I don’t pick up mana pots and just passively get a decent mana pool anyway

[dim kelp]

Surely anyfear runners use Strength for the damage boost

[dim kelp]

It doesn’t need to be a big investment if you’re not priming magick with a lot of other things. The point is just that if you want to improve your Born Gain magick regen, you should do so by increasing your magick bar instead of directly buffing Born Gain

I’m still using Strength because the era of Strength dominance taught me that actually I hate dealing with DDs

[past salmon]

Run scars 2?

[glass shell]

i wouldnt mind a scars 3(4 is 100%) and void.... 5? so it starts at 20% at 1

end at a perfect 69 fear. nice

[brave dove]

the thing about scars 3 is there's endless discourse on whether or not healing through it is cheating-

so I can understand wanting it to Go but for actual play I just don't run scars 3 unless I'm willing to lock in (...or playing nergal)

[civic ocean]

Yeah this is another good reason to make it 90 or whatever

[civic ocean]

Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for Wayward Son and Plentiful Forage to not work but Nergal, Vampiric Catsclysm, Breath of Eros and Chaos Revival to work. So just make them all work at 75 or 90 or whatever

[past salmon]

or hey lets not make the game easier

[civic ocean]

There are like literally 200+ things they can do to make the game harder

[past salmon]

uh huh

and are they doing any of those 200+ things lmao?

[civic ocean]

Maybe? Im not in the balance meetings. But I think its stupid for people to use blatant scars abuse to play high fear clears at the same time

[past salmon]

I mean sure but thats more an argument to make stuff not work through scars lol

tho I think the argument for Nergal and Vampiric working is valid
specifically nergal kinda, the healing is intrinsic to the aspect

Guan Yu also healed through LC in h1 so

[civic ocean]

Shops also kept the timer going in H1

The healing is intrinsic to Wayward Son, too

[past salmon]

ok fine remove all the healing then
Still a better idea than making scars 3 90%

[civic ocean]

Because you said so lmao?

[past salmon]

if you hate 100% reduced healing so much literally just click scars 2 instead

noone is forcing u to play scars 3

[past salmon]

??

[civic ocean]

I don't hate 100% reduced healing I think 90% healing opens up more options for arcana, boons and builds

[past salmon]

my bad bro let me add (my opinion) after everything I say

[civic ocean]

Do you have an actual argument, Foolish?

[elfin forge]

they should take away the healing on nergal during scars 3 smh

[civic ocean]

No more 60 hp if you clear the room with Engraved Pin

[spiral wadi]

engraved pin mechanically works like a death defy so i think that's fine to keep

[civic ocean]

That's also healing tbf

So that should probably be removed if we want Scars at 100% for everything

[spiral wadi]

nergal's healing is also part of its aspect

[past salmon]

tbh I kinda hate how limiting pretty much every vow is when it comes to build making
just remove them all tbh

[civic ocean]

Who is asking to remove anything

[spiral wadi]

boonless 67f

[civic ocean]

I think a 90% scars that affects Death Defiances is way harder than current Scars 3 anyways

[elfin forge]

I'm waiting for the All Onion Vow

[spiral wadi]

double onions would be hilarious in thessaly

[past salmon]

not really because u just click strength lmao

[spiral wadi]

tbh i kinda wish that they leaned more into making thessaly the "resource" area, give more rare resources and such

[past salmon]

good job you found an idea that limits arcana more!

[civic ocean]

Okay man if you think that's right you do it, I think both would do it

As if the current 50-62 meta isn't like 95% Death already

[spiral wadi]

i mean i find strength to still be good so far, been running 55f runs

maybe at like higher pain death makes more sense

[civic ocean]

Yeah it's closer than 95 probably

[spiral wadi]

i am the 5%

[civic ocean]

Just seems stupid that the argument is "Nergal should be allowed to heal through scars but Wayward Son shouldn't"

Like I don't think there's an actual logical argument for that other than "I like Nergal"

[spiral wadi]

the way i see it it's like, nergal's healing is specifically tied to its aspect, while wayward is a card you can bring to any run

[dim kelp]

A vow disabling an entire aspect seems pretty different from disabling an arcana card

[civic ocean]

Nergal still gets the custom moveset and the attack speed

It's not disabled even really

[dim kelp]

Are there any other aspects that just get a feature deleted by a vow?

Or that you think should?

[civic ocean]

Why are we drawing the line at (some) arcana cards?

[quasi mica]

it would feel weird to have a difficulty option to weaken healing that just doesn't let you turn it all the way up

[lost pecan]

arcana cards and aspects are both pre-run selections with meta progression, i think it's fair they be treated the same, but i'm not sure what the best way to treat them the same is

[civic ocean]

I think scars 3 should be a lower number and uniformly affect all healing instead of having several exception cases

Including DDs, Pin, Chaos, Circe, Nergal, etc

[dim kelp]

Okay, but that’s still one aspect whose gimmick is directly nerfed by a vow, when no others are, right?

[quasi mica]

you could make the same argument that vow of void disabling grasp entirely sucks but I think the only thing SG would have to say about it is "don't turn vow of void all the way up if you don't want to"

[civic ocean]

I'm not sure what you mean, but Persephone is directly nerfed by Forfeit

[brave dove]

scars affecting death defiances would immediately make them all useless for any level of scars because strength immediately becomes better at even scars 1

[past salmon]

I uhhh

[civic ocean]

Can you unpack that a bit?

[brave dove]

sure let's use scars 2 as a baseline because the maths is simpler

[past salmon]

even currently, with scars not affecting dds
if you have less than scars 3 Strength already becomes better because healing is more effective when using strength

[brave dove]

Death normally gives you 220% ehp

if death defiances are impacted by scars 2, that becomes 160%, less than Strength gives you even before the healing efficacy and damage boost comes into play

[dim kelp]

I guess? There are ways to get more boons though

[past salmon]

so basically
if you make scars effect dds
you are shooting death in the head and sending it on its merry way (dead)

[civic ocean]

right, but death defiances can be very easily replenished and improved

[brave dove]

easier than... healing items?

[civic ocean]

You do also still get to heal with death

[past salmon]

yeah I can replenish my DD healing me for 10HP yay?

[brave dove]

strength multiplies the effectiveness of healing

like idk why you'd ever take the more-expensive-to-refill 160hp bar over the 167hp bar that gives you a damage and healing boost

[lost pecan]

i feel like the implicit promise with vows is that they should be enjoyable and interesting to play with at their max rank, and that their max rank should be tuned by the devs to be the hardest they can get while remaining interesting and enjoyable. it feels weird to me to intentionally include a vow that just doesn't play very well at it's max rank, even if said max rank is the most logical extension of it's effect

that said, having scars affect DDs is bonkers lmao

[tall notch]

Btw i do feel like something should be done about Nergal. Ignoring scars 3 like that is stupid, but if you turn off Nergal healing the aspect is actually dead

[brave dove]

it's fine

[past salmon]

tbh they could remove the healing I dont think it kills the aspect lol

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think it would make strength better with no other added contextual changes for sure, but I think setting it as a new baseline and then tweaking from there is fine

[spiral wadi]

this just made me think of a funny strat of having 5 death defies with toula and tooth then get athena to replenish them all

[brave dove]

like tbh I think both a) scars 3 is fine b) people get too precious about the 'sanctity' of scars 3

[past salmon]

I dont think "we should do a full rework of the entire game to fit my system" is a good idea

[brave dove]

plentiful forage worked up until this patch, which added nergal and chaos healing, the true no healing vow has never existed

and people should stop idealising something nobody's ever played-

[spiral wadi]

anyway i like that high scars gives users choice between whether they want a safer (death defy) or stronger (strength) run

[past salmon]

imo chaos healing sucks but thats because I dont think something so random should be so strong

[brave dove]

it scales like mad with rarity as well

[civic ocean]

Yeah I'm not gonna pitch a fit if it doesn't get changed just seems like a shame that arbitrary things are shut off from being used in the game

[brave dove]

at common it's basically wayward son at epic it's basically plentiful forage+

[civic ocean]

I will happily push deep into 50+ with excellence on revival

[spiral wadi]

stripping death defiance just means reducing even more of the already kinda low decision making in arcana

[dim kelp]

I wonder if it would be better if there was a more clear distinction, like the one they made with magick use vs magick loss. Healing vs restore ❤️, or something

[past salmon]

yeh it feels silly

[tall notch]

Why does chaos healing work again?

[past salmon]

cuz SGG felt like it idk

[spiral wadi]

chaos cannot be bound by fear

[brave dove]

'cause they specifically changed the code to make it work

[civic ocean]

Whyt does Nergal, why does Vampcat, why does Circe, Why does Eros, why does Pin, etc

[tall notch]

There's no consistency to which heals work and which don't lmao

[spiral wadi]

wait what does circe do

[brave dove]

vampcat, nergal, pin and eros are consistent

[past salmon]

Circe has to be a bug

[civic ocean]

Why does Self healing

[brave dove]

circe is still a bug I think, self-healing is also consistent

chaos healing and circe are the oddballs

self-healing and bounce back are less healing than they are ehp multipliers

[past salmon]

eros should probs be changed
Pin makes sense its not even a heal effect in the true sense
Nergal and Vampiric are tied to weapons and is consistent with how they did it in H1
SGG clearly wants weapon healing to work regardless

[brave dove]

er, is bounce back the dionysus one...?

[dim kelp]

Yeah

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1396631913690828830/image.png?ex=687eca54&is=687d78d4&hm=31d7671fc443fa38e861ff78a266c3669b49a3dea554f700fe745b4a23f98505& can you explain the consistency here

[brave dove]

well the icons are different for one thing

[past salmon]

🔥

[spiral wadi]

the will of night cannot defeat the will of light

[brave dove]

self healing is, functionally, an ehp multiplier

the security system edge case aside

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1396632137431777370/image.png?ex=687eca89&is=687d7909&hm=6e26a0defe3bcbacd59f7e47e05cb0321bd1db9bb6b6f26e7ff8c7b7fe4e61fa&

[brave dove]

yes that was me being glib

[civic ocean]

same icon

[brave dove]

the actual serious answer is what I said just above and what I said earlier, which is that self healing and bounce back do not fulfil the usual functions of healing

they can't restore you to full hp outside of one edge case self healing interaction

[civic ocean]

I'd be down for wayward son to be reworked to work like self healing tbh

[past salmon]

look im not gonna argue that scars is still somewhat inconsistent (tho way better than before)
however I will argue with a take like "scars should be 90% and effect DDs"

this is like the problem with #h2-feedback
someone makes a decent point and then in the same message puts some deranged suggestion and it becomes impossible to upvote

[civic ocean]

Cool thanks Foolish

[dim kelp]

I mean, genuinely, if they used consistent, distinct icons for “healing effects” vs “get HP back that works through scars” (with proper terminology), that would be much better, yeah?

[past salmon]

nw East

[brave dove]

I think the only thing that sitll says scars kills it and then doesn't get affected by scars is like, circe?

[civic ocean]

Circe

And I thiiiink the Apo Hest duo

[past salmon]

oh yeh warm breeze
that shouldnt work

[brave dove]

oh warm breeze works? huh yeah that probably shouldn't lmao

[past salmon]

I kinda forget that boon exists tbh

[brave dove]

I had completely forgotten or I'd already have tried hestia dodge nergal

[civic ocean]

I know it used to not sure if it got changed

Reworking Wayward to work like Self Healing actually thematically works with Zagreus too so that would be a cool idea

[brave dove]

isn't it a direct copy of one of his mirror of night upgrades?

[past salmon]

its a direct copy +2!

[brave dove]

like idk why you'd want it to work like self healing when it's largely intended as a like, new player margin helper

[civic ocean]

It's lame I think that there's an arcana/aspect that is completely ineffectual when a Vow is active, like 100% useless

[brave dove]

messenger and sorceress and swift runner all work out as largely more effective once you can mostly avoid damage even before factoring in scars

[brave dove]

well the entire arcana set is like this with void so I don't think SGG consider this a particular problem

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's the point of Void

[past salmon]

just play with max void 100% of the time no problem!

[civic ocean]

And also no particular Arcana is rendered useless by void, you have to turn them off to start the run

[past salmon]

this is like
pedantic

[brave dove]

would you prefer if you were physically prevented from starting a run with wayward son equipped if vow of scars is on

[civic ocean]

No I think I have been pretty clear that I think Wayward should provide some benefit to your run with Scars active

[brave dove]

I'm unclear why wayward son is getting special cased here

[spiral wadi]

it's prob for if circe smites ur scars vow, your wayward ticks back on

[elfin forge]

there should be a popup, asking "Are you sure you want to start this run? You have scars 3 on and Wayward Son as well. You're literally throwing away your grasp here. Are you really sure? Like really?"

[civic ocean]

It's the only thing that doesn't get the special case

[brave dove]

I mean, in comparison to void

[past salmon]

not more popups please
the not max grasp one already annoys me enough

[brave dove]

I hate the max grasp popup so much

[civic ocean]

Well, it and the Dora keepsake, which I also do think could also do with a rework

[opaque yoke]

Godsent Hexes How can I get it?

[elfin forge]

I hate the early access popup

[past salmon]

Dora keepsake is so funny

literally just directly worse than tooth

[elfin forge]

at least it doesn't turn of strength? I guess that's the logic lol

the one I compare it to is Phial

[civic ocean]

Phial kinda cooks with Excellence runs sometimes for sure

[cerulean panther]

Each Hex has a specific Olympian. Twilight Curse is Zeus, Lunar Ray is Apollo, etc. You need to have that Olympian picked up on a run before you get a Hex. If Selene rolls one that matches an Olympian you have, it will be Godsent and there will be the upgrade on the Path of Stars.

Aspect of Selene is Ares. You need to start your run with his Keepsake in order to get it.

[lost pecan]

Dora keepsake has niche use as just a big heal after a 1st or 2nd boss goes poorly, since Tooth won't necessarily go off in the next region, and will do so after Death's DDs if it does

or it can just be a Tooth alternative for Strength

[elfin forge]

but why not just use phial then

unless you already used phial in the run in which case it might be cooked

[civic ocean]

Forgot to not tap the fountain

[elfin forge]

I suppose, yeah

[quasi mica]

given it stayed untouched for so long I suspect ghost onion might just be meant to be a crutch for very new players to get slightly further than they could without it

like it's a tool for if you die to regular rooms and you just want to make it like, 3-4 rooms further for meta progression currency

[elfin forge]

I wonder if they ever balance keepsakes about when you unlock them in the playthrough lol

[lost pecan]

depending on your current max, i'm pretty certain Dora can be worth more sometimes (or at least more upfront healing), but phial is the overall better healing pick, yeah

[elfin forge]

oh yeah I suppose, since fountains are based on %

[lost pecan]

ghost onion also helps with the suicide surface runs before u have the incant to not take constant damage there, but that's even more niche

[civic ocean]

That still seems like its worse than luckier tooth

[elfin forge]

luckier tooth does give a single more hp then every matching tier of onion lol

[quasi mica]

Because it is

Never said it was good just speculating on what is even the point of it

[brave dove]

the thing about ghost onion is that at the point it could theoretically be useful... you don't have keepsake swapping unlocked

[unique igloo]

yeah

i like the sash rn when I don't really have any boons in mind and want better defense

do yall have any resources you'd recommend for learning about boons and synergies and stuff?

[brave dove]

vods, mostly

if you want a specific YT channel, boated, he's a bit more up to date on community meta than haelian usually but haelian is legitimately very good at the game as well

the sort of extensive specific breakdown you might be looking for probably won't exist until 1.0

[unique igloo]

that's reasonable

I'll probably just play around and find what works. Thank you though

[uneven palm]

You can also scan my YT I post runs of stuff that works generally https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhwToHMg0jMiPxq15JoVeOyuEA_kBqTP2&si=30rgvrPxq_G7jC2S

[spiral wadi]

@tall notch i beat ur save state in 4k https://youtu.be/kkT3EEhGIqk

really wish there was gust so i could deal with charybdis easier lolol but it's fine i won anyway

also wow going from small screen (steam deck) to big screen (laptop) worsens the visual clarity of the fight a lot, so much hot pink

[pure steppe]

i never really messed around with moros much after unseen i havent touched it what are some good boons or builds on it

i play 32+ fear for reference

i feel like hitch specials are pretty strong

[empty musk]

Basically just origination and % gods
Huntress and Night should be activated but not mandatory
Any hammer should be fine besides the one that makes your attacks return when you dash

Moros doesn't need much to work at 32f, and Hitch is just powerful in general so yeah

[pure steppe]

if im going on 40f surface i tryu to force ares lego it feels pretty good with moros

[pure steppe]

i forgot to turn on night but ok that helps thanks

[tough pasture]

hi friends, what's the best combination to optimize medea aspect with and without origination?

ETA: zeus special (with static shock), apollo attack, apollo cast, aphro-apollo duo seemed pretty damn strong to me. just did a run with it.

[unique igloo]

ngl blood triad feels kinda mid

[spiral wadi]

blood triad goes insane on morrigan

tho u can just build for its omega attack w/ hitch it's really funny

[unique igloo]

it feels like it falls off a bit late game

[spiral wadi]

mm not really, it usually lands at least top 3 damage in my runs

[past salmon]

#h2-victory-boasting message
its definitely pretty damn good imo

[ocean ibex]

this 2.5 minute video better not be 1 fight

[spiral wadi]

i think the save state was a scylla save since it starts at scylla

anyway wow i hate the total eclipse hitstun at high pain during the orb dodging

[tough pasture]

vid when?

[past salmon]

https://youtu.be/LqGOQXWkcPs

[tough pasture]

Thanks. Boomkarking this and will watch it tomorrow evening.

[spiral wadi]

has someone done a calc on how much tough gain benefits with strength because -3 damage on all sources is surprisingly doing things

[tall notch]

Great job!!!!

[tall notch]

It is though

[spiral wadi]

https://imgur.com/oNwOU9S most useful guitarist

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1396779770783727638/boonlesscirce.mov accidentally found a boonless circe fast kill on lanky miniboss

[past salmon]

bro she is literally so worthless ong 😭

[spiral wadi]

at least she showed up, the drummer didn't even spawn when i hex'd her T.T

[past salmon]

[spiral wadi]

https://imgur.com/a/KubTRhT

[past salmon]

it spawned a tentacle

seems like maybe roxy is just unable to be nightbloomed?

[spiral wadi]

coulda sworn she could, tho maybe it is that

[past salmon]

she could in non rivals idk if Ive ever seen it in rivals

[spiral wadi]

hm, well i reported it anyway, would hope they fix it cuz i want to see arena-wide damage on my side for once

anyway tranquil gain actually kinda funny to use, i like it

[past salmon]

tranquil gain is pretty underrated imo

it does the job
cant say the same for some other gains

[spiral wadi]

ye, it is a bit weird cuz the more i thought about it the more i realized isn't grisly gain just a worse version of cardio

cardio you get guaranteed mana per atk/special, for grisly at base you have 10% for a plasma for 10 mana, so 1 mana per hit on average

[past salmon]

yes grisly is indeed ass

[spiral wadi]

was poseidon's that bad, i remember i used old sidon gain and it was relatively decent at its job

[willow phoenix]

Kills from Night Bloom units don't count for Night Bloom

[past salmon]

oh lmfao?

[willow phoenix]

Roxy got killed by a tentacle that's why she didn't spawn for Night Bloom

[spiral wadi]

oh fr

charbydis betrayal

[willow phoenix]

Seems like the game is pretty finicky and coded it as units that died from 'you' and not familiars and not allies

Like allies also don't get global damage buffs probably for the same reason

[spiral wadi]

hm, that's fair, still sucks tho

[woeful moth]

Do I take damage when unseen ire is active?

[glass shell]

technically in extreme scenarios with something like a chaos curse yes

for any enemy based damage, no.

[pseudo pond]

Any super strong nergal build?

I heard some people use it for speed run, but I just can’t figure out what kind of build it strives

[forest sphinx]

Apollo Legendary or Hephaestus Legendary

special spam

[pseudo pond]

Hmm, tried Apollo one before, doesn’t feel particularly powerful, I guess I will try heph as well

[forest sphinx]

the thing with Heph Legenary is that the number of hit to activate is cut in half, so if you spam special your heal uptime is close to 100%

there's a hammer which extends the duration and heals for 2, which makes dodging trivial

I normally look for Lucid gain + Winner Circle, best gain for special spam imo, then put Apollo on special and go ham

the jackhammering looks pretty hilarious too

[brave dove]

the main thing is that your oattack is the best part of your kit

always be spinning

[civic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-3deV9W2Go Here's an example of one of the GOATs of this game playing Nergal on what I would consider a pretty conventional build - Nergal's strongest asset is its Omega Attack.

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/1233146305308528650/1395226615000203336 Here's my offmeta Nergal build that focuses more on the attack combo.

[pseudo pond]

K, will give it a try

[pseudo pond]

👍

[plucky light]

What would you guys recommend for aspect of pans after the Poseidon nerf?

[civic ocean]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/1233146305308528650/1396282020069507193 I play Pan as a Huntress weapon -m start every encounter with a two knife Ospec and fish heavily for Trick Knives, using % damage boons on the special

[scenic sky]

Who's worst god?

[elfin forge]

in general?

[scenic sky]

Yeah

[elfin forge]

I'd probably say Heph

[scenic sky]

Like ares and poseidon are the worst in the first by far

[glass shell]

tossup between heph and apollo imo.

like gun to my head only one gets changes for 1.0, its heph so thats my answer i guess

[elfin forge]

apollo is quite decent, just has some lacking secondaries

[scenic sky]

Is the balancing better than the first I haven't bought the game but loved the first

[glass shell]

idk i just never really WANT him like i've said before. Like theres hyper specific builds some gods want like posiedon, but apollo is even narrower than him which is nuts

charon mana. Morrigan attack..... nergal attack i guess?

[elfin forge]

makes morrigan spec wider

[scenic sky]

Who's the best then?

[elfin forge]

zeus or hera prob

[glass shell]

Probably hera especially in a higher fear context

[scenic sky]

Awesome

[glass shell]

I think zeus has fallen off a bit since nerfs but im never upset seeing him

[glass shell]

yes/no. this latest patch nerfed a lot which makes me some others upset but the game is pretty "balanced" imo.

just.... don't pick heph he was a support god with bad offense and now his support got nuked

with barely any compensation for offense

[scenic sky]

Why did they do that?

[elfin forge]

nah patch 10 was fine, it just bopped hestia a bit(not even that much)

Supay lost a ball but is still very, very, very viable

[glass shell]

im talking patch 9 and 10 as a whole tbh

[elfin forge]

oh patch 9 was a bit rough yeah

[glass shell]

but patch 10 specific persephone got gutted in a bugfix, mel staff should be 50 though i don't think 60 was THAT bad i forsaw a nerf for sure, supay.... i think it could get its rush damage back now.

pan in general nuked from orbit

[plucky light]

I don't understand what m start is and 0spec...

[glass shell]

yet still 2nd best daggers

[elfin forge]

Pan is more responsive with Patch 10 at least

[brave dove]

balance is much better than h1

all the aspects are relatively close in power and even the least performant ones are perfectly capable of clearing 62 fear

[civic ocean]

Room start* Omega Special (The one that uses mana)

[scenic sky]

So is poseidin still shit?

[elfin forge]

pos is decent I'd say, but bad with a lot of aspects

[glass shell]

Well.... if you asked 4 weeks ago i'd say no.

[brave dove]

every god has a place, the overall weakest god is probably apollo who is still very serviceable and bis first god for some aspects, pronto has their opinions but they're not the overall community opinions, there's still a lot of heph in high fear clears

[civic ocean]

woah this guy works for SGG how'd he get past the filter

Apollo is the worst? Huh I guess so right

[glass shell]

This latest patch introduced an internal cooldown for poseidon splashes on most things, which gutted his performance compared to pre-major update.

[scenic sky]

Wait can you not swear

[brave dove]

it made him not bis for like four aspects

[elfin forge]

are ppl still picking heph in high fear?

[brave dove]

also the bot breaks sometimes, and yeah there's a profanity censor you get muted for a bit if you break it too many times

[civic ocean]

how high

[scenic sky]

Is that consistent across similar enemies

[glass shell]

😔 guess im not getting past the filter today

[scenic sky]

I mean gods

[glass shell]

ehhhh. most gods don't have anything that procs that often to NEED a icd

[elfin forge]

ok tough gain still sees some use at 50

[brave dove]

checking the stats all heph cores except dash have 50f+ clears on crossroads

[elfin forge]

man flood gain is popular

[civic ocean]

Poseidon still goes ham on fast attacking weapons tbh and Froth+Arctic Gale is still a bazonkers one two combo

[glass shell]

Closest thing would probably be blitz which technically? Cause you can't apply blitz(burst damage on enemy after hitting them for enough damage) before the first lightning bolt hits the enemy

[civic ocean]

Also I think I am in the minority here but Water Fitness and Sea Star work really well for most of my strategies

[glass shell]

but compared to over a year of testing poseidon when he had zero ICD it feels like trash

[brave dove]

poseidon is fine, to be clear, the ICD nerf nerfed a few specific aspects

[elfin forge]

I'm looking at it, interesting

[glass shell]

SAME. water fitness my beloved its my goto

[brave dove]

speaking as one of them, heph's stuff is just, perfectly good

[scenic sky]

Are there still inconsistent ability applications? Knockback we are looking at you.

[elfin forge]

there's not damage bonus for knocking into walls

[glass shell]

No but theres a bunch of inconsistent keywording

[brave dove]

it's mostly consistent outside of why they sometimes use strikes

[scenic sky]

No I mean bosses are immune to knockback from poseidon

[glass shell]

well yes they still are.

[civic ocean]

"struck" is not considered "strikes"

[brave dove]

bosses still have a bunch of specialcasing, yes

[elfin forge]

bosses be bosses

[brave dove]

yeah I hate this

[glass shell]

Bosses ignore most of your rules yes

[scenic sky]

Is it worse than h1 in that respect

[glass shell]

Infact they specifically made the decision 2 major updates ago to let bosses bypass mels basekit CC that they already partially ignored

[brave dove]

funny as it would be to be able to lock r4 into inaction forever it's probably for the best that freeze is just a super slow on them

[civic ocean]

Do we know if this is just an English thing? Or is it the same in other languages?

[brave dove]

can you please stop bringing up every single grudge you have accumulated over the course of early access

[glass shell]

its not even a grudge its an example 😭

[brave dove]

you were not asked for that you were asked for a balanced opinion :v

[civic ocean]

My one narrative objection is that I think it is giga silly that Mel has been trained all her life to defeat Chronos and her magic just has 0 effect on him

[glass shell]

He asked "No I mean bosses are immune to knockback from poseidon" as an example, so i gave a counter example from hades 2 where it was still the case

[scenic sky]

That's absolutely hilarious

[brave dove]

it blows him up :p

[elfin forge]

I interpret it more that her training allows her to even compete without getting insta timefrozen, like the others were

[scenic sky]

You worded it in a pithy way

[civic ocean]

Yeah same I just thought it was neat that casts worked on him and was sad that they changed it

[scenic sky]

That's not a criticism is just you came off a little sour

[elfin forge]

oh yeah lol

[brave dove]

the main thing I'd say is while there's a few effects that are just worthless for bosses they're pretty far between

[glass shell]

i guess? personally i thought it was kinda dumb you could trap cerb in place with your cast so i was happy for it

though slowing chronos dashes was helpful

and prom ALREADY ignored it entirely

[brave dove]

and none of them are important curses, all of those work on bosses even if splashes don't knock bosses back and freeze is only a super slow

[elfin forge]

freeze is also really short on bosses, right?

[civic ocean]

I think it makes sense to change it for Cerberus and Polyphemus etc because Mel didn't train to fight them but it would have been cool narratively if they still worked on Chronos

[glass shell]

I think splashes knock back eris? I've noticed that a lot recently where she just flies around the screen for some reason

[brave dove]

huh

[elfin forge]

or does it end early if you hit bosses, it just feels short on them

[glass shell]

Yeah i dunno i've just noticed when attack her with splash she gets slapped around

[civic ocean]

It lasts the same duration IIRC you can tell because they're blue daba dee daba die

[scenic sky]

Probably gonna head as its getting quite spoilery

[glass shell]

i f10'd it assuming its a bug tho

[brave dove]

freeze duration just isn't very long

cold storage + room temperature lets you keep bosses slowed forever if that helps

which is like, the benefit of certain things not working normally on bosses, effects like that still work

[elfin forge]

hm maybe I'm just wrong then, I just feel like dem cast is great at stunning mobs, but does very little on bosses

[civic ocean]

Wait what things other than certain hexes are completely useless on bosses

[elfin forge]

I feel like if it was indeed 2 seconds of super slow I'd notice it more

[brave dove]

https://youtu.be/EejnbY7VQL4?si=TBD_VaoI5rJVoMn-&t=1562 here's the dem nergal with room temperature (but no cold storage) vs. r4 chronos if you wanna review it

you can see it having an impact but without cold storage I can't keep it permanently up

[quasi mica]

shocking loss. no idea why.

[sage flame]

at least winter harvest still works 🙏

[brave dove]

shocking loss, suffering on sight and unupgraded morph were the things I had in my head

[civic ocean]

Doesn't shocking loss still work on the mobs?

[quasi mica]

It would be such a good time save for speedrun too people would love it

[elfin forge]

lol getting the thug miniboss

[brave dove]

there's probably more - I mean yeah but cast also works on those

[civic ocean]

Yeah I was thinking like what is totally useless in a boss fight and I don't think there's anything right

[brave dove]

technically killing prom's mobs doesn't really help so

[elfin forge]

Sea star 😦

Sea Star should have a chance of spawning a second boss after you beat the first one

[brave dove]

you're right sea star should have a chance to proc when you talk to the boss

[sage flame]

twilight curse not having damage for enemies that resist the hex by default kinda makes it feel bad ngl

[elfin forge]

"HAVE ANOTHER" Eris respawns

[civic ocean]

Sea Star duping boss resources would be SO funny for credits%

[brave dove]

no my timer

[elfin forge]

it'll be fine your 14 minute run is now a 16 minute run

[quasi mica]

I wish some things really were totally useless for bosses because it would mean less of them summoning goons in the middle of a fight

[brave dove]

don't you enjoy getting jumpscared by two yargonauts mid-typhon

[civic ocean]

Some things are like functionally near-useless

Old Grudge in particular sticks out

[elfin forge]

why can't I spawn a monster egg with night bloom

[quasi mica]

Cerberus phase is probably the "worst" because he just goes away for it. It's legit just a fields encounter happening in the middle of the boss fight

[civic ocean]

In fact I think you can make the argument that Old Grudge at times makes the fight harder

Though maybe not with Hordes active?

There's a unit limit right

[elfin forge]

I think so, yeah? for Chronos?

like if you have enough dudes alive, he won't summon more during his reinforcements phase

[civic ocean]

Yeah so you could in theory phase him before you kill any mobs

Huh @brave dove do you know if that's a different way to block the midboss spawn? Doesn't seem super practical but maybe?

[brave dove]

I don't think that stops the midboss

I haven't tried though

[elfin forge]

just don't kill any of the satyr guys accidentally! easy!

[civic ocean]

No! Nergal sTOP

[spiral wadi]

lmao i didn't realize that big blast hex applies scorch to all enemies, not just in circle, so charybdis just got wiped for phase 1 of scylla

[brave dove]

I vaguely recall that for r4 chronos they kill themselves automatically at some point maybe...?

[elfin forge]

oh do they?

[civic ocean]

I am so comically bad at avoiding getting hit by them

[spiral wadi]

either that or scorch carried over idk

[elfin forge]

i hate their death groundwaves

[brave dove]

I think so but don't quote me I am dimly recollecting the extremely frantic first few attempts I had at it

[civic ocean]

My ability to dodge the red death waves is inversely propotional to the amount of Lovers charges I have left

[brave dove]

trigger unseen ire then kill them all at once

[sage flame]

is it an attack they do or do they just explode on death

[civic ocean]

after they die they do a lil animation and then the red circle comes out

[sage flame]

yeah okay that's what I thought

[civic ocean]

Honestly they stab themselves in the gut and it's kind of graphic even for this game

[sage flame]

yeah when I first saw it was a bit surprised but hey

cultists ig right

[elfin forge]

nvm ignore me

he just leaped REALLY fast

[civic ocean]

I feel like p1 chronos is harder than p2

[elfin forge]

hm idk the layers of aoes on p2 make it harder for me

the long arena of p1 means you have some room to breathe

p2 will have stuff like Tempus time bubbles, rotating clock hands, shrinking damage rings, and an instakill all at the same time

[civic ocean]

in rivals, which is honestly an interesting callback to EM Hades which I also felt was way harder in P1 than P2

[elfin forge]

even in rivals imo

[civic ocean]

I do often refuse to run away from Chronos yeah

[elfin forge]

chronos keeps doing timebubble teleport so I'm always spacing a little bit out lol

in p1, that is

[spiral wadi]

i feel like the problem w/ the red death circles is that his servants blend in with the environment too easily so it's hard to see that they're doing the thing

[civic ocean]

I definitely just try to reflex dodge the circles

[spiral wadi]

does plasma speed up torches

[civic ocean]

Yes and it also elongates your distance when dashing and messengering

It makes you very very very slippery

Not recommended for chronos oneshots

[spiral wadi]

i see, i imagine since chronos can be "combo broken" out of his one-shots in rivals p2 u could prob get away with it

[civic ocean]

You can also just get used to it and tbh I actually quite like it for p3 because you can get outside of his max attack range on the scythe swings somewhat consistently and then get back in to hit him

Or like when he does the 4 ripple dash you can predict and land in front of him for some free time to smack him

[spiral wadi]

o nice

[civic ocean]

It also does some weird and wild stuff with Inverted Blaze

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925113924855140417/1391012602578210876/image.png?ex=687f70f0&is=687e1f70&hm=655a886b0dcba32fdfffc6c20343cf2801ad8df0141e1c6322b083b61161d885& guys can u help me with 32 fear? i dont know if its the vows or skill holding me back

[stable herald]

yeah, replace Void with anything else

probably Scars too, or at least don't run max scars

[polar ravine]

so how good are you at dodging on frenzy 2?

cause that plus void 4 plus scars 3 plus hordes 3 plus pain 3 is a terrible time

[sullen wyvern]

How good is Poiseidon's splashes on the axe?

I am not particularly sure what to prioritise on it tbh

I have yet to do a run with the final weapon as well

[civic ocean]

Looks good you can never die just run away from them

[sullen wyvern]

Xinth, I think? I think it hits fast so maybe Zeus or Poseidon?

[civic ocean]

Poseidon’s splashes deal damage every time you hit them, so do you think it works well with faster or slower weapons?

[sullen wyvern]

Oh yeah, it's base damage now. He works so different from Hades 1 haha

[polar ravine]

while its problematic maybe choose fangs instead of pain/wards/hordes?

[stable herald]

Poseidon's splashes are not good on the axe. His splashes add flat damage, which means they get more value on fast weapons and axe is the slowest. Froth also benefits from fast-hitting weapons too

his cast boons are terrific though, and aspect of Charon is pretty great for cast builds

[sullen wyvern]

Quite a few weapons seem to have potential for Poseidon, Zeus or Artemis stuff

[sullen wyvern]

Ooh, thanks for the advice. Which gods are best for the heavy hitting builds then?

I wish there was a collection of how many % damage boosts each one has

[glass shell]

You'd think so, but no. You only get 1 splash per axe attack no matter how many enemies you hit

[sullen wyvern]

Apollo seems to be a pretty great one for a gigantic AoE I guess

[stable herald]

once you gift each of the Olympians you unlock a list of all their boons in the journal, very useful

[polar ravine]

especially with apollos ultimate

[sullen wyvern]

Still haven't quite placed on whom I want Apollo on but he has some very convenient boons

[glass shell]

thats the neat part, you don't.

[stable herald]

anyway big percent modifiers like Aphrodite, Apollo, and Hera are great on the axe

[sullen wyvern]

But I love Apollo :c

[glass shell]

Hes basically always the 3rd or MAYBE 2nd choice for a weapon. The only thing you want him 1st place on is nergal and debatably morrigan. Charon likes his mana regen though

but for the most part anything that would want him 2nd choice would prefer aphro as she has much better t2 boons/synergies

some specific callouts are the ares/zeus duo boon which makes apollo wanted, but only cuase he has a disgusting revenge boon that hits the entire room

[sullen wyvern]

Also, is Xinth fun? I loved the gauntlets in Hades 1
Seems fun with the multihit stuff like Zeus or Poseidon

[glass shell]

Fun? yes. Strong? Probably the weakest overall weapon in the game and that was before it got nerfed with posiedon changes this patch.

[stable herald]

Black Coat is my favorite weapon but opinions vary on it. It's received a lot of buffs over early access

[glass shell]

It has gotten nothing but repeated buffs to the damage/animations/aspect bonuses yet its still the weakest

[sullen wyvern]

I like how Poseidon seems quite a lot more interesting in this game tbh

[glass shell]

mostly becuase fundamentally the block is trash compared to hades 1 shield block, and it just has such low damage

[sullen wyvern]

Well it looks really cool and fun

[glass shell]

It had some standout builds with posiedon pre unseen patch due to its multihit dash attack getting 3 waves for 3 attacks, but this patch added internal cooldowns to posiedon per enemy so it went from 3 splashes > 2 splashesand 6 splashes with a hammer > 3 splashes

aka 33%>50% nerf in overall application of poseidon

same for its rocket spam attacks, now you only splash on about half the rockets of an omega special

Its still a really cool and fun weapon IMO, but man does it suck

[stable herald]

Just use Hestia and Freezer Burn instead 🧠

[glass shell]

at 0 fear i probably have the most fun with it or blades, difference is i can take blades on higher runs and succeed decently not so much for coat

[tall notch]

but fangs can sometimes randomly just create rooms that end your run, it's probably best to keep that off so that evetry run feels consistent

[sullen wyvern]

Well, hope the weapon gets great buffs on release

I should probably read the patch notes for the big updates tbh. I have no clue what changed and what is relevant as I've very recently got into this game

[polar ravine]

the issue with wards unless they are going for a rapid hit build is that they soak whatever initial damage and it extends the rooms. With hordes that means that AOE's are your friend and at least you can burst some rooms down if you get the build

[sullen wyvern]

Actually, I think the biggest glow-up from the base gods in my opinion is probably Demeter

[stable herald]

Hordes also makes every point of Pain/Grit even harder

Menace is an extremely free Vow imo

I also like Shadow since it only makes a few rooms worse and you don't always even face minibosses, but it does make certain midbosses a lot more annoying

[west thunder]

Only thing is tail of Typhon goes from being a free kill to a potential run ender with this vow alone. At least for me

[stable herald]

yeah that one's among the worst

[thin ridge]

Why won’t those dracons leave me alone…

[west thunder]

This is the one boss I asked SGG for a nerf for with that vow but ig it wasn’t in the cards

Bigger difficulty spike than a rivals boss

[thin ridge]

Makes Typhon look like the end credits

[stable herald]

since we're talking about vows, I love Fangs for making encounters more interesting but it's true that it can be hella swingy. I don't want them to nerf or remove the sheepball Fang, I want to go back in time and prevent it from ever having existed.

Hubris is way less stressful than it seems, you'll only really feel the hurt if you're running a magick hungry build or getting epics out the wazoo

Time isn't so stressful either, at least the first two levels

Denial is awesome because you can leverage it to your advantage, but you can brick your build if you keep picking a god until they can only offer sacrifice boons

[west thunder]

Bro it feels like I kill dozens of them but there are still always like 8 on screen at all times with the best tracking projectiles in the game

[west thunder]

Denial is free fear until you’re forced to take a sacrifice boon and your whole run is over

Technically my fault if it happens but everyone miscalculates sometimes

Or the rare instance you’re forced to take a boon with no rerolls

[stable herald]

bricking yourself with Denial is a Hades 2 rite of passage!

[west thunder]

I’d be down for making shared wealth a guaranteed boon choice when a god is out of boons to offer but ig it’s considered part of the risk of taking the vow

[brave dove]

looks good you should clear every aspect with it

[civic ocean]

I have found that denial is pretty rarely playing to my adv these days

[uneven palm]

It’s only an advantage if you want like a very specific boon and it’s not an infusion that requires a buncha boons to activate or power up. Like it can help you get slow cooker but you can also take 3 more Hestia boons max so sorry it’s weak.

[civic ocean]

Though I suppose I would probably not wish to be offered smithy sprint 5 times

[bright orbit]

Any tips on surviving as Kid Melinoe? I know I'm supposed to dash left when the tentacle's coming from the left and vice versa, but it's been two runs now and I died both times there. She doesn't seem to have any defense boons and some of the attacks do swarm damage for big hits.

[willow phoenix]

https://youtu.be/2VS4gAy4sTE?si=n2aeOvlwd3VZIR9y

I made this for that

[brazen ore]

you can leave the circle and it won't pause your progress, if you find it easier to dodge the tongue if you get all up on his mouth

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1397040294142414919/clip.mp4 man

[pure steppe]

Any recommendations for high fear mel torches?

[uneven palm]

Hera and Zeus attack special is an ol’ reliable

[vernal spade]

Can someone help me, I can't play with my friend with the multiplayer mod

[wise idol]

Uh I’d probably ask the modding server

Pinned somewhere in self promotions

[hazy crane]

y'all I have been blessed

room 1 chaos legendary

[hazy crane]

and a second one in the first room of Oceanus 0.o

[hazy crane]

#h2-victory-boasting message

I did it

[last cape]

Does Athena get much that goes particularly well with Supay? Nothing is coming to mind other than divine dash with ares rush

[elfin forge]

aphro, hestia rush are both good

ares and poseidon are decent as well

but the attack and special are quite good as well, for apply stuff like blitz and hitch and SCORCH

[civic ocean]

Renewed Faith if you are eligible is a pretty insane ehp swing too

[last cape]

Yeah faith is always good, but I'm playing strength rn and not a rush boon that goes particularly well with divine dash so I took a second god keepsake instead lol

Now that they increased the power of the supay specials I really like aphro with it

[short hare]

what do i take on charon ?

[glass shell]

Tidal ring cast

Geyser Spout

apollo mana

literally anything else.

[tall notch]

if you play omega supay (which to be fair most peole arent and while its more fun to play rush supay is definitely stronger rn) righteous pike could go hard

[civic ocean]

I take blades usually with poseidon mixed in if I can find it

Kinda flexible aspect

[stoic badger]

Can sky fall from Selene be godsent?

[glass shell]

yes, but you MUST bring ares keepsake

[stoic badger]

What is the extra effect?

[glass shell]

Every beam applies wounds, without the usual cooldown

[stoic badger]

Oh cool

[civic ocean]

Its a lot of dmg

[pseudo pond]

any good medea build suggestion?

[cerulean panther]

Thunder Flourish, something that applies a Curse on your Attack (Glamour Gain also works in this regard), if you can get Possessed Array and Magick regeneration that supports it, do it.

[pseudo pond]

got it, I tried one with ares and zeus

worked out pretty well

[stuck ether]

Ares is BiS for attack i believe to unlock heinous sffront

[sage flame]

yeah it's worth also getting hera in your pool for born gain on the off chance you stumble into possessed array

[uneven palm]

flood gain isn't bad there either and you don't have to stress about max magick

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1397296924716961864/babyaah.mp4 did chronos throw his boomerang attack at a smaller path than usual

[civic ocean]

Giga Dash spotted

[cerulean panther]

Looks like his Unrivaled multi-throw.

[civic ocean]

Would be pretty crazy if you got that arena without being unrivaled

[spiral wadi]

ye, i'm looking at a reference clip where it seems to take a far bigger angle/path than what's shown in the clip

(using the ground circle things as measurement)

[civic ocean]

Maybe its one of those isometric things

[spiral wadi]

could be

[gray narwhal]

What's the best boon to start with for the Moon Fists

[twilit furnace]

If youre godsent for the hex then ig ares special(?)

[spiral wadi]

holy apollo is actually fire as hell

didn't expect daze backstab to hit

[civic ocean]

The virgin origination vs the chad back burner

[past salmon]

I think this is normal it's just a weird angle

[spiral wadi]

zz i made it to rivals chronos phase 3 and got him past half with circe 55f, then got hit from everything

[spiral wadi]

ah i see

[spiral wadi]

it was funny run too, i had two chaos at erebus give me hp per location, so vow of scars kinda just got denied

[gray narwhal]

How do you make your hex godsent if you already have the hex? Ie can you have it added later on.

[spiral wadi]

unfortunately you can't if you get selene too early you're just screwed out of godsent

the only exception is selene aspect with ares keepsake

[gray narwhal]

So you can't make the one you get with the black coat godsent?

Oh I guess that answers it lol

[spiral wadi]

ye it's funky

kinda wish they had that for all the other hexes at least

i say as i play staff exclusively magickless anyway

[gray narwhal]

I play Castless everything lol

[civic ocean]

That sounds hard what do you do if the enemy is faster than you

[spiral wadi]

apollo sprint

[gray narwhal]

Dash out of the way

I'll admit it's not optimal lol but it's one less button I have to worry about lol I've never really gotten a good setup for it as I'm always moving quickly away.

[spiral wadi]

ye it's def a tool u have to get adjusted to, big recommend tho

[gray narwhal]

Though to be honest my best fighting style has been the torchs and only using the attack. No special or cast.

[spiral wadi]

wait insane what builds have u been running, i wanna see

[gray narwhal]

Hestia boon to start, getting the one that gives you mana back so you can keep doing Omega attack, and then getting boons that deal more damage and such. Maybe like Zeus or Hera to spread the damage. Then just keep firing.

I'm only at like Nightmare 9 or so with that though, whatever it's called, but I did beat Prometheus and Herc first try with it.

If you can get the Hera rift boon and some more mana regen then that's pretty strong on it's own.

[spiral wadi]

dam nice

[gray narwhal]

Thanks!

[spiral wadi]

yo circe with backstab apollo is insane

[uneven palm]

oh does the leash backstab?

[spiral wadi]

it seems so yes

i would include a clip but i got steam maintenance'd and lost my background recording session

i believe it checks for backstab from your standing point, since the laser seems to originate from you (i presume this since if there's an obstacle between u and ur pet it'll collide with the obstacle and not reach the pet)

[lucid tide]

Does “Cast” also include omega cast? For something like Chaos’s boon that boosts cast damage.

[spiral wadi]

i believe so yes, should include cast boons

[lucid tide]

okay thanks

[uneven palm]

If its says “Casts” plural it’s both

[burnt wasp]

I'm curious, what are everyone's thoughts on best Familiars for runs?

[uneven palm]

They all have uses. Dog for Omega-heavy aspects, bird for damage, weasel or frog for safety otherwise, cat for skipping the fishing mini game

[stable herald]

Raki hasn't had a single nights' rest since I got him. Help me, I'm addicted to crit chance

[burnt wasp]

It took me ages to unlock Raki but when I got him I now use him or Hecuba exclusively tbh. I should give Gale a shot with a dodge chance build maybe.

[stable herald]

Gale is popular for high fear since the three free dodges usually amount to more effective HP than Frinos. Plus dodge chance is also always nice - it's like crits but for defense!

Toula's main purpose is to fuel discussions in this discord about how SGG should rework her

[civic ocean]

Gale also scales with your skill at the game basically

The less likely you are to take stray hits the more likely Gale is to be 3 free hits in a boss fight

I am ass at the game so I do not tend to play Gale

[uneven palm]

I see less Gale use at ultra-high fear these days since most folks have switched back to DDs and Frinos gets you more juice out of those. Also blocks the Rivals Hecate triple sheep ball

[empty musk]

Agreed Gale > Frinos at max Pain and Scars, Frinos for any other high fear setup, then Raki for mid fear runs, Hecuba for fun runs and Toula for beginners and then never again (😿 )

[half kindle]

Don't you wish sometimes there was a way to make a single god-boons run? Like... I wish I could do only Ares boons or only Poseidon.

[empty musk]

Def something they should add in 1.0, like the complete chaos trial runs we got this update

One for each god would give ppl chances to try out all the legendaries

[burnt wasp]

I could see it as a thing once you unlock the legendary for said god, perhaps.

[half kindle]

Maybe through the vows.. Or somth. Like, I really want to unlock all potential with a single god. It would be really fun

[civic ocean]

I think that's a really interesting statement because I think a core way that the Hades series of games has thematic reasonance is that the full potential of the gods are unlocked when they're used together, not seperately.

[half kindle]

That's true, at least with the dual boons. But some Chaos trials that give you a lot of boons from a single god are really fun, and powerful.

A full Ares run with a lot of Plasma
Full Zeus with lightnings everywhere
Full Hestia with fast heavy burning, etc tec.

[glossy rivet]

how does momskull poms work? does it only work once or is it up +6lv for every boon i pick up?

[cerulean panther]

Whenever you pick up a boon, the selection will have a randomly increased level.

I think it was toned down so you're much more likely to get all level 1 boons.

[glossy rivet]

oh..

is apollo better on anubis atk for the increased radius or should i stack scorch with hestia instead hmm

[west thunder]

What’s the build for Nyx coat

[trim shoal]

hestia or poseidon probably, id test poseidon to see if the waves are time limited for the nightspawn, it's really inconsistent

[unique igloo]

nergal is so free if you get psychic whirlwind

[trim shoal]

or clang gang

[cerulean panther]

Melting Sickle on the Morrigan should give you an Armor buzzsaw, yes? Since it ticks frequently?

[trim shoal]

Is Strength or Death better on 50F

[spiral wadi]

either or, i find strength to be more consistent because i don't have to fight for "i lost death defiances now i have to replace them", instead it's like "ok i lost hp, how do i recover it"

strength nerf in unseen did even it out a bit, i like strength more but dd for safer runs is p good too

[burnt wasp]

It can also depend on Aspect too. Nergal’s Berserk bypasses Scars I believe so if you get that plus Ares’ self heal boon you have some decent survivability.

[trim shoal]

ok, i am going for first 50F clear on thanatos so probably death for consistency and ability to use pin

[spiral wadi]

very fair, i believe there's a funny strat where you get both pin and athena per-location defiance

actually that's strength only huh, nvm

[trim shoal]

I do use strength sometimes, and I generally get farther thanks to being able to get out of erebus, but I die in Oceanus or at the start of Fields

[spiral wadi]

ye it's def a skill check card

[trim shoal]

I really need to get better at dodging those explosive chucking snail guys in oceanus and the punch guys in fields, then id probably switch to strength to get out of erebus more

[unique igloo]

tbh i feel like a lot of times focusing on dodging is more important than maximizing dps 24/7

[trim shoal]

5 minute timer with maxed enemy health vow and hordes really makes you want some risky dps

[mossy briar]

Does moon beam carry over to the next region if I switch it out before I get the path update boost?

[trim shoal]

Yes

[spiral wadi]

water fitness can heal with antler

(if you get the boon during it)

https://imgur.com/TtCHT9T why did i heal after picking up poseidon gain

oh ig water fitness got upgraded

[civic ocean]

I have converted to Death on all 6 weapons doing Underworld runs atp

Now that Scars 3 healing has been...nerfed? Patched? Fixed? I don't think Strength can compare to Death Defiances and how relatively easy they are to refill

[burnt sky]

Doing an anubis attack run with apollo and the hammer that also upgrades area is def fun to see.

Now, it's really not as efficient as hestia or hera attack. Having +% damage when the attack has really low base damage is not amazing.
Though on special, Apollo is good both for radius and damage if you spam omega.

[olive tusk]

nergal damage is just not enough to make the healing work, especially in the final boss

psychic wirlwind has worked well enough, but it falls flat completely to a similar investment build of Charon, Morrigan, Medea etc

[tall notch]

you can make both happen but i think the safety of dds is better for 50f right now

[robust prism]

what's the best special boon for Selene coat currently?

[raven marten]

So is it me or is Eris Hardmode easier than reg?

[tall notch]

hera I believe, makes ospec fantastic at room clear

[robust prism]

makes sense, that's what I ended up going for too

[tall notch]

hestia should prob work too because it tends to be good on coat specials, but i havent tested that with selene

[robust prism]

failed 32 fear selene just barely at typhon sadly

[crude needle]

she does feels easier

even with frenzy on. idk, I think her attacks are more readable

[glass shell]

eris is just as easy unrivaled, but the checks are different

Now instead of "just get behind her 4head" its "do you have an easy way to detonate the bombs safely"

cause she does comparable if not more damage if you step into the minefield, just thats a lot harder of an ask(and easier to avoid in some ways) than reacting to her flying down and MW2 no russian-ing your ass for 90 damage burst fire in 0.5 seconds

difference is in your weapon choice(the thing you can't change) vs a knowledge check. Once you just... dash behind regular eris she does nothing. If you pick coat vs eris its "well guess ill die" if any minefield gets setup by not phasing her quickly

[uneven palm]

The coat has specials to detonate the mines safely but the aiming on controller is fussy. Any aspect can also use a damage cast like Dem or Apollo to pop them too

[glass shell]

yeah but the issue is that the coat doesn't lock onto the mines, and generally speaking will seek out eris/the mobs she summons instead of the balls

its possible but compared to a sister blades/staff/torch ranged attack... its lacking especially in the travel time

like even axe can just omega special it away

coat takes a long time for the specials to reach it, doesn't lock onto them(if you could select them with o-special the problem would be solved tbh)

[uneven palm]

I mean it’s not the easiest but coat isn’t like a death sentence with her. Also she has a tendency to kindly pop her own mines with the laser, which helps.

[brave dove]

it did get better in patch 10 at least but it's still not great

[civic ocean]

I cant wait to refight eris now that I know you can blow up the bombs with your moves

[glossy rivet]

So... pos waves has a cooldown now
Hestia doesnt right?

[spiral wadi]

hestia's fine yea

ur mainly gonna want to proc poseidon froth now, which is very good

[glass shell]

technically hestias cooldown is in the fact its always 1 second for each scorch tick(1/6 internally to calc the damage)

but yeah nothing on application

[glossy rivet]

If i have pyro technique is there a point where i should stop raising it or should i always pom it?

It can only be more dps right?

[glass shell]

i mean there is technically a point where you literally cannot deal more damage yes, you'd have to be dealing all 999 damage per second

[civic ocean]

Kind of

[glass shell]

but you'd need a LOT of global % damage and other stuff to really hit it

[civic ocean]

In practical terms there is a DPS loss if you run something like Origination and the scorch runs out too fast

[brave dove]

global damage amplifiers don't increase consumption

otherwise pyro technique wouldn't be multiplicative

origination instead makes 100 scorch consumption deal 150 damage

[cerulean panther]

Scorch ticks a certain number every so often, correct?

That's how it interacted with Air Quality? Turned it into something like a constant 300 DPS buzzsaw if it weren't critting?

Pyro Technique is the only thing that makes Scorch reduce more quickly, and in doing so increases the Power of every tick. Every other damage upgrade boosts based on that Power.

If you Pom Pyro Technique so high you can't consistently keep Scorch applied for Origination I think that could be considered "too high".

But that's really really edge case.

[brave dove]

it's not actually that edge case, a few poms on pyrotechnique and an unpommed scorch applier or smolder ring as main source can do it tbh

[quasi mica]

it's an edge case because it only applies if you're using scorch to set orig for something else (in which case you... probably won't be picking Pyro or pomming it up)

by definition if scorch is dealing damage, then scorch is on the enemy. you'll never Pyro yourself out of having origination boost scorch's damage unless I'm missing something really critical

[uneven palm]

Scorch can get to like 400DPS pretty easily. I've seen like 800DPS with a huge Pyro Technique and Burning Desire.

[civic ocean]

If pyro technique consumes scorch faster the status is no longer on the enemy for origination purposes

That’s why BD is so core to the build yeah

[uneven palm]

I mean it's on them for origination for the scorch damage, because they have scorch

[civic ocean]

Yes but assuming that scorch would have been consumed to begin with it is a net damage loss

Pyro technique only increases scorch’s damage in two situations: 1) when you are able to apply more scorch than you consume (this is pretty hard to do except in certain situations) 2) you have Burning Desire and good weak application, which is obviously insanely powerful

If pyro technique is causing your scorch to run to 0 and you use scorch as one of your two orig curses, pyro technique is reducing your net damage

[uneven palm]

Yeah, there's Scorch-for-origination purposes, in which case you probably don't want Pyro if everything else is banking on Orig. And there's scorch-for-damage, where I think you'd always want Pyro because it kills stuff faster

[civic ocean]

Yeah time to kill is also a big factor

[quasi mica]

does not increase overall damage, does increase DPS. basically just don't pick Pyro if scorch isn't supposed to be your main tool

[civic ocean]

This again also depends on how much scorch you can apply per second

[quasi mica]

I mean... Does it? If I inflict like 30 scorch then consuming it faster means it deals damage faster

Does the tick rate not work out like that

[spiral wadi]

· Unrivaled Cerberus: no longer also drops magma on top of his attacks
bless

[forest sphinx]

I guess what they mean is that pyro technique is not significant if you dont's manage to apply pyro often enough

Because the pyro meter can run out before your next application

The downtime is damage loss

lets say you apply scorch every second and scorch clears every second, pyro technique cant increase overall damage

[civic ocean]

Not just insignificant but like hurting other things

Here's an example from my 51 Fear win last night: I have Weak, Scorch Attack, and Storm Ring. During the Unrivaled Hecate fight, she activates Dark Side, so I am able to keep her in the cast, but not able to sit there and pound on her while I dodge the attacks. Because of Pyro Technique, my Storm Ring is not benefitting from Origination's 50% damage increase as much as it should

This is of course remedied later in the run by chasing and acquiring Burning Desire.

[quasi mica]

well yes, that's why I say

applies if you're using scorch to set orig for something else
and
don't pick Pyro if scorch isn't supposed to be your main tool

[quasi mica]

Pyro can never increase overall damage. But unless something changed in a recent patch scorch isn't just a 100 damage every second on the dot damage tick, it deals 100 damage over several ticks over the course of 1 second. Unless there's a cap on how quickly it can tick with pyro then speeding that up does mean your DPS increases

[uneven palm]

Pyro increases scorch DPS, but not total damage, yes. It's the same damage, faster

[civic ocean]

Only if you have BD or are applying scorch faster/measuring in smaller samples.

If I apply 500 scorch and wait 5 seconds, my damage per second is the same with or without Pyro Technique

[forest sphinx]

It would be bad IF you need curses lingering AND consumption rate is faster than applciation rate

[civic ocean]

These aren't really like super relevant restrictions since of course you control the boons you take

[cursive oyster]

something to note here is that when you apply scorch there is a small period where the scorch isn’t consumed and it still deals damage

[civic ocean]

I can't believe they just doubled Heph Strike lmaooo

[quasi mica]

If you apply 500 scorch and you consume/deal 100 per second, your DPS is 100
If you apply 500 scorch and you consume/deal 200 per second, your DPS is 200
You will deal the first 500 scorch in 5 seconds and the second in 2.5 seconds. Direct DPS increase. That's what I'm saying

[glass bone]

Just scrolled through the new patch notes, and I think most everything is a success, though there is one small thing that I’m not certain how to feel about atm. “fixed an issue causing the real Hecate to be easier to distinguish from the other two, unlike in the standard encounter.”

[civic ocean]

Right but over that 5 seconds you deal 500 for 2.5 and 0 for 2.5 which works out to the same as 100 over 5

[uneven palm]

Unrivaled Hecate's torch effects were wrong on the "real" one. She was incredibly easy to spot

[glass bone]

I know that. But I guess I liked that small bit of skill expression of figuring out which is the correct one. Haven’t looked at it in game, so I figured to ask “Is it now a complete one-to-one between the real and fake Hecate?”

[quasi mica]

I honestly don't understand what you think you're disagreeing with. I'm just saying the damage per second does increase. Because you deal it faster.

It is significant when scorch is your main damage dealer because in our "spherical chickens in a vacuum" situation an enemy with 500 HP will die in 2.5 seconds instead of 5

[civic ocean]

I am saying that damage per second is also a function of how many seconds you are measuring, when applied practically to the game.

If your scorch is regularly running out on your target and it is one of the two statuses that you need for origination to stay up, Pyro technique is lowering your DPS over a long enough period of time.

The trick with every build that uses scorch is to mitigate that as best you can to optimize the damage.

[forest sphinx]

Is the identifier the crecent moon attack? Both the big moons and flurries

[quasi mica]

yes, which is why I said

applies if you are using scorch to set up orig for something else

Scorch downtime does not lead to damage reduction on scorch

[glass bone]

The one most people I believe used, is that in Patch 9 and 10, the real Hecate did not have flame particles on the torches.

[forest sphinx]

I've found that real hecate, while not always 100% conficent, tend to spawn further away from the other 2 when doing the pulsing torches attack, one that applied right after splitting

[outer brook]

Do you guys recommend taking selene boons? I keep seeing people say that hers are weaker/not as good as ex. Hecate

[civic ocean]

Between this, the audio cues and lingering statuses I get real hec pretty easily now

[quasi mica]

has anyone tried her yet because when I read that line in the patch notes I was afraid that meant she'd purge all statuses on teleport

which is what i used to tag the real one during the fight

[civic ocean]

I am not sure about base hec but I will check unrivaled hec real quick

[haughty fulcrum]

Just tried my first golden rule run to see how much gold I can get last night and now it’s gone 😦

[quartz parrot]

supay my beloved how ive missed you

[brave dove]

nah they're referring to a specific visual thing about her torches

[quasi mica]

oh alright then. i thought that got fixed in a previous patch for some reason

[nova nimbus]

how do you guys like to use the separate card slots

like do you make a deck for each weapon? familiar? etc

[elfin forge]

I make one deck and use it for everything

I turn off huntress if I use omegas, that's basically it

[nova nimbus]

oh neat do you switch between huntress and furies

[elfin forge]

no I do them both

[nova nimbus]

do you take persistence and drop queen then ?

[elfin forge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1349278289042346008/1390093577685700658/Screenshot_2025-07-02_at_3.15.27_PM.png?ex=688207c7&is=6880b647&hm=3a21295e10d99a51e6e13b619c666e03af69933aa12cfccdb7c8d97c561b189b&

[nova nimbus]

neat, i like to run that but with strength and death swapped

[civic ocean]

six decks, one per weapon since I tend to play one aspect at a time

[nova nimbus]

the game really wants me to play night though so ive been experimenting with new builds

[civic ocean]

I think two of the decks are the same

[cerulean panther]

So I tried Hestia and Hephaestus on Persephone.

#h2-victory-boasting message

[regal talon]

whats the best staff rn?

[spiral wadi]

it seems like all the staffs are generally good

the most fun personally is circe, tho anubis i think is prob the strongest?

[west thunder]

Pretty sure Anubis was before this patch. It probably still is

[spiral wadi]

anubis got nice buff too w/ now proccing cardio and splash correctly

[west thunder]

I believe the only hit it got was more expensive omega special but that’s not a big deal if you know how to manage magic

[regal talon]

splash? my anubis revolved around hestia/zeus, how would Poseidon fit in?

[regal talon]

sweet

[spiral wadi]

prob for froth proccing

[glass bone]

Then perhaps Hestia is still the way to go now that Cardio Gain works right. OSpecial probably can still be spammed just as easily as Patch 9/10 with that boon.

[west thunder]

I’m surprised that’s the nerf it got. I thought they were gonna slow it’s channeling speed or reduce damage on them

[glass bone]

If they deem it to still be too strong, I imagine damage will be next.

Some bits of feedback did say that Mel Staff should be buffed and that Anubis shouldn’t fulfill the Special spam role that Mel Staff wants to be. Though Mel Staff didn’t get upped to 50, so we shall see I guess in the next few months.

[spiral wadi]

i saw mel staff get a 62f clear just moments ago w/ special at top damage dealt, so i figure it's pretty good still

[pseudo pond]

Finally, Anubis and Poseidon interaction fixed

Quick question, any weapon that can spam omega special?

[gusty creek]

hi guys, i wanna play Hades 1 so badd rn, but i am broke asff :(((( does anyone have a steam key he doesn't use or something?

thanks anyway🥲

[spiral wadi]

am i the only one who thinks splash icd doesn't matter, just proc froth 🤔

[civic ocean]

people tricking themselves into not taking poseidon on Hel lmao

[uneven palm]

I mean it going from a wave every hit to one every 3 during Valkyrie does something to your damage, froth or not

[spiral wadi]

yea splash got nerfed but like, it still does the job of knocking back enemies, if you need damage then get froth

[violet verge]

pirate the game i guess

[gusty creek]

i did, and after 2-3 days i got an error in the game that the filles were corrupted and all my progres was gone

[violet verge]

were did you find the crack?

[gusty creek]

fitgirl

[violet verge]

reinstall I guess

get it from steam rip or gog games if that doesnt work

[gusty creek]

ok, thanks

[violet verge]

np bro, enjoy the game

[west thunder]

What’s the new cd on Artemis parry?

[glass shell]

12

[void cargo]

I love how initially the Thanatos axe had a higher crit charce, I think 15, then it was lowered, and now its higher again. The axe aspects needed some love but I still am unsure if they compete. Axe is the only wep I have any difficulty getting anything over 20 fear or beating VoR 4 with. What would work better for aspects like Mel/Than?

[glass shell]

It was 20% i think? If not 30?

It was really high and universal is all i remember

[glass shell]

anyway tldr use hera on attack so your big sweeping damage spreads to other units to combat the decently low attack speed

[void cargo]

You might be right, I really don't remember. I would make the crit charce available for all omegas OR both regular and omega attcaks

[glass shell]

special to animation cancel the bad 3rd attack

unless you think you can get away with it anyway

spin2win if you have a wave spawning on you and its safe to do so(rarely is)

[void cargo]

oh Ive tried all things. Its the speed of the wep that does me in. Hera is by far my favorite god too, I love seeing her almost always

[uneven palm]

use eternity you can spin all you want

[void cargo]

hmmm, actually not a bad call. I think I need to keep tinkering with my arcana setup

[pseudo sequoia]

yeah than axe originally was strange, crit % was tied to aspect level (maximum of 20 iirc), it had to be built up with omega attacks and only really worked on attacks (completely unrelated to the question you were asking but it made me remember early access release lol)

[spiral wadi]

just realized ghost onion is a strength-friendly death defiance now, you get 100 strength effective hp

[void cargo]

It was so weird the first iteration! I remember stuff like Soft Caress (Aph x Heph) being what Eros Breath does now for example! Or Phoenix Skin being SO BAD. There were som other doozies in there that were so underpowered haha

[glass shell]

uh im pretty sure it was universal?

like i don't recall needing to omega to get crit

[void cargo]

you build crit by using the omega, I think Silver is right

[pseudo sequoia]

no i pretty vividly remember you needed to omega attack to build up crit. i remember it because it was awful and there were no good magick regens LOL

[glass shell]

oh my god you're right

Whenever you hit with Omega (Ω) Moves, gain +1% Critical chance until you take damage.
Increases Max Critical chance per each rank.

damn i forgot all about that

crit chance was universal tho im right on that

[pseudo sequoia]

i'm grateful for all of the changes the game's received but i still like all of the oddities from way back when. aspect of persephone taking ten years to build up and momus being the most nothing of nothing aspects were my favourites

[void cargo]

tbf, I think the crit chance is good now but I think its too niche just with the omega attack. I know theyre trying to make the wep a spin wep basically but the axe being slow means you get hit more often than with the knives or torches, especially since its the meleeiest wep

[uneven palm]

Yeah, old old old Thanatos was omegas built up the crit rate, and the crit rate was global. The go-to was Zeus cast, which was a weird Omega cast back then

[uneven palm]

I just did a Thanatos run I'll post a vid if you wanna see how I play it

[void cargo]

tbf, its why I find the early access of this game so rewarding. Normally I wouldnt get early access, but SGG just makes it part of the journey and Im glad to have been part of it. My wife refuses to play early access games and I think she misses out on this one in particular a lot

[void cargo]

thatd be nice! Thanks!

[pseudo sequoia]

to be fair i highly doubt most early access games are as fleshed out as h2 was at launch so i can understand not wanting to commit 'till it releases but personally it's been a really fun experience having had seen the game change over time

kinda wild to think about how most of what we're missing now is story compared to the launch which was full of placeholder graphics and unfinished movesets lol

[void cargo]

the launch was relatively fleshed out, I think. It came out in a significantly more complete state than H1 was in EA

H1 is a much smaller game overall though, all in all

[pseudo sequoia]

oh definitely, h2 started with more content than h1 had when it was finished, but relative to its size i think it was fairly unpolished

[void cargo]

yes, seeing the game now its hard to not agree with that. I am super stoked for v1.0

[uneven palm]

Here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnFrHHbeza4

[void cargo]

Ta, Ill give a look to it now

[uneven palm]

I had Psychic Whirlwind there so you can do whatever while Omega attacking, but Seething Marauder is also great

[smoky halo]

anyone has any good builds for shiva now that the special bounces?

[spiral wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773298528310001716/1397712264878100674/ruff.mp4 +100 heph armor boon was a good call (running pain 2)

made it to phase3 chronos with 37 hp and like 3 mins on clock, feeling good for future runs

[uneven palm]

Probably the same as before. Night arcana, Apollo attack, punch whole rooms. You’ve got more incentive to hang in the O special landing zone while charging the attack now

[strange crown]

Do I drop Swift Runner, Messenger, and Night for Champions + The Queen?

I havent been running re-roll cards because I have been happy to exchange consistency for a little more power but I realized I could use the Queen if I switched