h2-builds-and-combat

[thorn raven]

The real cast build is mel staff posiedon cast with Living nightmarre hex

[strange python]

meh, i'd rather run my own stuff

... the poseidon cast kinda sucks with my playstyle... i don't really care about doing a single instance of damage, i'm more into dots

[thorn raven]

What's your definition of single instance of damage lol, standing there spamming omega cast explosions multiple times a second with Zeus Cast aiming boon is very fast repeated damage

[strange python]

can't really spam my omega cast - i don't build for "meta" or whatever everyone else is doing

[thorn raven]

My point is that you CAN spam your omega cast if you try out that build. I'm not describing a meta im just trying to share a fun build with you

[strange python]

oh you mean the poseidon boon that makes your omega cast instant explode. there are multiple poseidon cast boons and i thought you meant the one that summons a wave for kb

[thorn raven]

Oh yeah well you need the wave one anyway to get the explosion one

[strange python]

tbh i don't like the projectile-based cast boons. i've tried using them and i just don't like them.

[thorn raven]

Hestias is annoying I agree

But Zeus isnt a projectile, it actually just puts the cast under your mouse instantly

[strange python]

the lightning bolt one? it's the same as hestia's and dio's when i play it

you hold cast and decide where it goes

[thorn raven]

nope, 0 travel time and goes through barriers

hestia and dio ahve travel time and aiming

[strange python]

meh, i prefer the melee/default cast circle bc i use cast when there are lots of things surrounding me and i want to leave.

[wise idol]

while lightning lance doesnt have travel time per se, all ranged casts have a short delay which make them not great imo

lightning lance def feels better than the other ranged casts though

[timber pawn]

It can be a good storm ring delivery system for a new player, I think that was how I got my first win

[uneven palm]

Dio’s cast is so awkward but it CHUNKS. Last time I had it with Raki it’d crit for like 2200 or something.

[willow phoenix]

If you use controller it's pretty annoying. The aiming is weird, I find my cast landing in weird places.

[low bear]

same but I was using Anvil Ring lol

[thorn raven]

Yeah it feels like the 1k damage after 4 seconds Hex. Takes forever to get the shot out but it booms

[jagged shell]

Was attempting to fresh file and ran into.. Eris? In the first room of Oceanus? We chatted a bit and then she gave me a "blessing" that increased enemy damage and would go up each encounter. Very in character of her but miss ma'am that was quite rude

Is this an easter egg for fresh filing or can this happen at any point before meeting her on the surface?

[willow phoenix]

This is a soft wall to prevent players from advancing too far in the first few runs

You meet her like a couple times I think, like once in every region(?). And I think she gives some resources too to compensate

[jagged shell]

Ohh interesting

It makes sense though

I've only encountered her once and I've tried like 4 or 5 fresh files, so it definitely doesn't happen every time

[willow phoenix]

That's interesting. I wonder if that's intended or tied to the number of runs so far. From my one and only save file I met her twice I think, one in oceanus and one in Tartarus

[jagged shell]

Maybe? I delete the save file and restart every time

[willow phoenix]

Do you reach Oceanus within the first few runs? Maybe it only applies to the first 5 runs or something

[jagged shell]

I've been consistently reaching it on the first run yeah

And like I said I delete the save file every time so technically each run is the "first"

[willow phoenix]

That's weird lol, might be worth

[past salmon]

if you are below a certain health threshold she won't show up

fresh file runners abuse this mechanic

[jagged shell]

That would definitely explain it 😂 by the time I reach Oceanus I'm usually not looking good

[split igloo]

Hey i am kinda struggling with game since axe is reworked ( i just come back )any build recommendation? I unlocked even fist and most of the arcana is level 2

[orchid fog]

does anybody have an easy 12 fear build for somebody running pan daggers?

some of these look obvious and others don't so I'm just gonna ask what's commonly agreed upon as easier vows

[viscid flare]

Dont have a full list infront of me at the moment but i just looked at it the other way. Rather the picking the vows to face choose the vows you need to keep (arcana and the frenzy enemies for me), usally the unique vows like the onion one and the extra wardens are only scary until you face them. Either way pan is strong by itself so you might just be better off trying some runs with builds that you like and after a few you will get it done.
Side note try out a strength arcana run with no death defincess, its the go to for higher fear runs for me

[willow phoenix]

At 12 fear you can mostly just pick whatever and still work.

Just don't pick the super hard one like the one limiting the arcana, the faster enemies, no heal, etc.

My personal pick for easy fear is fang 1-2, deadline 2, shadow, enemy return from death, enemy from next region, higher enemy health, prime mana for rare boons

[surreal hazel]

tbh, fury 2 without any compounding vows isn't that hard, fast enemies still go down quickly

and it's a lot of fear points

[low bear]

Purging well in Tartarus just saved me damn

I had born gain on Pan but took static shock from Echo thinking I'd get more mp but then I didn't lol

[past salmon]

lmao

[low bear]

So I was at risk of just primimg out at Chronos with like 87 MP entering Tart

[past salmon]

priming out is fake anyway

[low bear]

Charon end shop didn't give me MP either so it really was a good choice

[low bear]

wdym

[surreal hazel]

Manaless pan is probably the worst weapon to have it on. It's true

[past salmon]

if my 48 magick per O-Attack torch run can manage to make it through the Chronos fight without Priming out completely priming out is fake

[surreal hazel]

Even a primed out artemis can still riposte

[low bear]

I almost won with it but timed out at phase 2 LOL

On a previous pan run where they just refused to give me a gain

[surreal hazel]

Maybe Eos would suffer badly too

Those torches are hungry

[low bear]

Wha what

[past salmon]

wasn't 50F just a silly goober run

[surreal hazel]

Fill all 4 other cores then every boon will have a gain in slot one unless you reroll

[past salmon]

but Apollo Leg + Bloodline + Weed Killer is very funny

[low bear]

Huh interesting I really should learn more about the rng manipulations in this game

[surreal hazel]

If you have core slots open. You will always be offered a core

Also the first boon in any run will be a choice of three cores

Rerolls mess with this a bit

[low bear]

How does rerolling in fields work

[low bear]

Yeah that does sound funny lmao

[surreal hazel]

Rerolls select one boon in the previous list at random and prevents it from reappearing for that boon

[low bear]

How do I know which of the rewards in the bramch it will reroll

[surreal hazel]

So if it picks the core offered, then yeah

[surreal hazel]

Oh room rerolls when there's 2-3? I actually don't know

[low bear]

Yeah I did notice this, getting static first boon is pretty hard it seems

[low bear]

Yep idk how it works either

[surreal hazel]

Obviously "first boon" excludes hermes

[low bear]

A comprehensive rng/probabilities guide sounds like it'd be a great tool

[surreal hazel]

Chaos boons/curses are hilariously convoluted

[low bear]

Also not sure how chaos affects major rewards

[surreal hazel]

Some rules to reduce, but not eliminate, the chance of seeing the sane curse twice in a single selection

[low bear]

In erebus

[low bear]

Is this all from code?

[surreal hazel]

Barren is slightly more rare than legendary

[past salmon]

why is this guy even allowed to be my first boon now
Who thought this was a good idea

[surreal hazel]

Yes

[low bear]

First boon hermes is dumb yes

[surreal hazel]

You will have your epic Saved Breath in erebus and like it.

[past salmon]

[surreal hazel]

(That boon is so... ehhhh)

[low bear]

Oh also how does gold gaining work per chamber

[surreal hazel]

Some enemies drop cash sometimes idk

[low bear]

Change saved breath to talent then we'd be talking

[surreal hazel]

I dunno if it caps to stop Hordes being easy mode or not

[low bear]

I feel like it does cap but idk either

[surreal hazel]

Btw barren, heh

[low bear]

Barren is lol

[surreal hazel]

Basically the logic is to make s list of all. 13(?) curses

Then roll a 90% chance to remove barren from the list

Then pick a curse for each slot, with a ?% chance to try again if it picks the ssne one twice

[past salmon]

Barren would make a lot sense to be as rare as it was if I literally ever saw a Barran curse that I even considered for more than 2 picoseconds taking

[surreal hazel]

If barren is picked, force the slot to heroic

[low bear]

Barren might be bearable if the number of encounters wasn't so ridiculous

[surreal hazel]

Also barren can't be picked without a preexisting chaos boon

[low bear]

Like 2 or 3 encounters MAX

[surreal hazel]

It's more that heroic scaling is meh. The randomness in chaos boons makes a lot of the ranges overlap

You can have rare strike boons being better than an epic one

But also 10 encounters without arcana to get.... 100 mana cap. Yay.

[low bear]

Yeah but 10 encounters with no Arcana will prolly kill me before I ever get the benefit of it lol, and 10 encounters is 1+ biome lol. Even if it gave me 200% strike I probably wouldn't take it

[surreal hazel]

Or even like. +280% cash isn't as good as getting +150% 6 encounters earlier

[low bear]

yeah that's true

and if it does require having at least 1 chaos boon already you're likely deeper in the run when you see it

[surreal hazel]

+99% discovery is one I got offered once. Lol

[low bear]

discovery is such a troll boon lol

it makes equipping Embryo so painful sometimes

same with blood at max scars lol

[surreal hazel]

Doesn't even benefit plentiful harvest

[surreal hazel]

It'd when it gives you discovery as the first erebus boon, so you stick with it

Then after 8 encounters it gives you discovery again

[low bear]

ay lol lmao

[surreal hazel]

One new annoyance is it giving creation in room one then the first hermes boon has tall order

Before you know if you can actually do that

[low bear]

it's funny how Shameless is better than Tall Order

[surreal hazel]

Creation is nice when it pops off though

[low bear]

true getting Coarse Grit Frosty Veneer from Creation is pretty nice

[surreal hazel]

Or getting it early then getting Chant

[low bear]

I wish we could get multi element infusions that isn't just all of them

like an infusion requiring 2 air 1 fire or something

[surreal hazel]

hrm, not sure that's necessary

the current system seems to be bridged from one where infusions were just innate, or arcana based

Still feels a bit wonky though

kinda feel like there should be some scaling on all of them

like, proper upbringing forces everything to epic if you have 8 earth, heroic if you somehow get 15

[low bear]

yeah all of them should have scaling true

another thought is that infusions just become available as a fourth choice with rng so it doesn't grief your other boon picks

An aspect centered around elements would be really interesting too

[untold zodiac]

scaling for air quality would be nice

[late lantern]

trial of doom is so hard lol

[polar frigate]

God i come really close to beating 50F UW but i cannot even come close to beating 32F on surface. Why is surface so much more hellish

[low bear]

So what's the play for 50F mel skull?

[wise idol]

Pretty much just Hera attack and bolstered array

[past salmon]

Hera attack and see what happens

[low bear]

Bolstered or Possessed?

[past salmon]

bolstered I think

[surreal hazel]

+2 ammo

Possessed is a strong choice though

[wise idol]

bolstered is def better for mel imo

[spare kite]

@safe notch if you are at the start of the run with toula why not just trigger it at the start

[safe notch]

because that sucks lol

it's just kinda obnoxious

[surreal hazel]

True, but if that's not on the list but possessed is, you aren't too unhappy with it

[wise idol]

yeah for sure

[surreal hazel]

especially given how it seems to bypass mana cost modifiers

it's still an omega attack though, so stay away from that gagged curse

but yeah, exceptional talent, nova strike and posessed array? You're a walking artillery barrage

[wise idol]

yeah its fun, def best in slot on medea I think

[spare kite]

Possessed is such a fun hammer cuz it just skips the boring part of the O.atk

[surreal hazel]

I hate that that is true, but yeah

[rugged moon]

I once took gagged while i had possessed… that was… a mistake

[surreal hazel]

rocket bombard is definitely fun, but it's not exactly rocket bomb from exagryph

[spare kite]

How much power does rocket give again

[surreal hazel]

+70 or something bananas

[spare kite]

Lmfao

[surreal hazel]

and yes it affects possessed array detonations

on release it was a meagre +20

Rocket Bomb in h1 made the base damage 80 iirc? It wasn't as big, but since it's so easy to tap fire it and get on with the dakka, it was great

[spare kite]

The biggest thing was the glitch with cluster bomb

[surreal hazel]

that was glitched?

[spare kite]

Rocket removes the -30% from cluster lmfao

[surreal hazel]

oh lol

as if a 5-shot explosive shotgun wasn't enough...

[spare kite]

400 base dmg is fun

[surreal hazel]

oh yeah, and rocket bomb made aspect of Eris way more usable (still nothing on how busted Hestia was)

[spare kite]

Both want the cluster rockets combo anyways

[surreal hazel]

a triple chamber is good too

[spare kite]

Eris also gives bigger special crits if you have arty

[surreal hazel]

ah yes

[spare kite]

Do you mean triple bomb or delta chamber

[surreal hazel]

that one godlike daedalus anvil that means you get triple cluster rockets

[surreal hazel]

triple bomb

[spare kite]

Can't get triple and cluster lol

They ban each other (and hazard)

[surreal hazel]

Must've been when I was playing with cheats then, heh, the game definitely supports it

I mostly remember triple bomb just being kinda dumb with Lucifer

[spare kite]

Is its best hammer by far yeah

[surreal hazel]

and to never take tempest strike

[spare kite]

Is almost clockets dmg with just 1 hammer (400 vs 300)

[surreal hazel]

lucifer's dedicated upgrades were okay I guess...

[spare kite]

Super soaker is a meme for a reason

[surreal hazel]

Grape shot was kinda fun though

(Drunken strike with lucifer)

funny really, with the new boon set, the supersoaker setup would actually be hella strong

[safe notch]

https://i.imgur.com/D7fZlG6.jpeg

my kinda wacky arcana arrangement atm

[rugged moon]

for what weapon

[safe notch]

melinoe black coat, artemis daggers and than

i don't use my secondary much on those weapons and i like chaining my omega casts with my primary for the combo especially on than

oh and uhhh aspect of momus

[spare kite]

The set up of all time

[safe notch]

i'm willing to be exposed to the rng gods in order to maximize my potential wackiness

... it is often painful

[spare kite]

[late lantern]

Is the duo boon from Hera/Zeus just bad or am I missing something?

[spare kite]

They are fun duos and def can put some work

[primal stirrup]

Spirit surge is UNREASONABLY good with the torches (except for eos)
It’s just an extra, at least, 20 damage every time you use the m1

[amber dagger]

Is surge the lighting bouncing

[cursive oyster]

surge is the summon lightning on mana spend

[amber dagger]

Ooo torches does sound good

[cursive oyster]

its… okay

mediocre on any other weapon though

[carmine lagoon]

For high fear is eternity still better than strength?

[cursive oyster]

it depends on preference

strength lets you get divine dash or mental block, and makes you tankier overall because of armor

[bleak gale]

Thanatos is so good in normal room but I feel like my DPS drops down against bosses

especially against Prometheus where I can't consistently land the final Attack string

[cursive oyster]

eternity gives you more ways to recover health, such as kiss of styx, life savings, survive survive survive, and renewed faith

[cursive oyster]

yeah than’s biggest flaw is you need a good build to do bosses in lategame

[cursive oyster]

eternity also makes it wayyy safer to run pin because if you fail a pin proc with strength that’s just game over

on the other hand divine dash and mental block are insanely strong

[carmine lagoon]

Honestly I’ve discovered that fight fight fight is a strength equivalent to survive

[cursive oyster]

strength also has anti-synergy with breath of eros because it reduces the hp you recover

[cursive oyster]

i prefer evade tbh

[bleak gale]

Meanwhile Medea and Moros exists just like THAT dang

[cursive oyster]

medea is super unsafe and tricky to get used to

moros is moros and is just always a top 3 weapon

ig moros wants to run hecuba which loses out on frinos hp and anti sheep hex

[carmine lagoon]

Yeah might have to try it

Also from doing relatively close high fear runs on the same aspect back to back, if I’m relatively safe I can get boon boon boon which has given me like greater evasion before

[carmine lagoon]

Do you need all that magick? Once you get hearth gain as long as you have 30 or so it’s enough

[cursive oyster]

setting up deaths so boon boon boon gives you a guaranteed divine dash sounds funny

[carmine lagoon]

Pffftt

[cursive oyster]

hearth gain used to be bugged on moros its a lot less reliable now

i prefer born because it puts hera in your pool

hecuba also makes the first three rooms very fast

[carmine lagoon]

Mmm true

And then I die to sheep hex

[bleak gale]

Yeah but the reward for the risk is there for those two

I "spin to win" and get flattened in the Surface

[cursive oyster]

o7

than is still very good with good hammers

[surreal hazel]

There's two!

[carmine lagoon]

how do i send images here?

[cursive oyster]

send the image elsewhere, click “copy image link” and post that here

[carmine lagoon]

tyy

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064631192491671552/1303382181162254497/image.png?ex=672b8cbf&is=672a3b3f&hm=401aeaae4ce080a4bda6cd122028cd0b9e9eafe1015fda0b446cf4aecdb6835e& is this a cooked nyx arcana? 50F

[cursive oyster]

that’s just my arcana setup

[carmine lagoon]

i switched origination and sorceress for huntress, messenger and artificer bc huntress is basically always active and costs 3 less than orig

[cursive oyster]

i typically run sorc over swift runner but that’s just me

[carmine lagoon]

is it worth it on nyx for the o-sprint?

[cursive oyster]

probably

it also just makes most omegas useable, especially between waves

[carmine lagoon]

its fine ill just get natty epic nitro boost instead 🙂

[carmine lagoon]

do you use omegas on nyx? i dont even take a mana regen lol, just keep 60 max magick for 2 o-sprints

tbh might be bc i got shimmering rockets 3 runs in a row and am spoiled

[cursive oyster]

i don’t play nyx but i could see myself ospecialing between waves

i think nyx is the worst coat i don’t like nightspawn

[carmine lagoon]

with hera special its

[cursive oyster]

iirc the nightspawn rockets don’t apply effects on hit

just get normal hitch bouncy rockets

its probably good i just don’t like it

[carmine lagoon]

just get lucky and its an easy game

i need to try that strategy more often

at least until sgg lets us roll hammers :)

[timber pawn]

Agree tbh

[late lantern]

Man the mobs in surface zone 2 are so ridiculously hard hitting. Dying to mobs are just instant reset which is so exhausting.

[carmine lagoon]

Wait until you get to the sniping machine guns in zone 3

[sly plaza]

The Zeus for Hera one does see some use on some Zeus centric setups like the Killer Current setup but it’s mostly for fun

[carmine lagoon]

I don’t think it’s ever optimal to take (and is one of the more avoided duos due to having an active downside) but you can get ridiculous levels with ransom and then echo Pom Pom Pom

[timber pawn]

There are multiple weapon aspect speed world records that take advantage of that duo

Kings ransom, anyway. Queens is a bit tougher to get to work

[sly plaza]

Yeah like I’ve not seen much of Queen’s ransom

Maybe one day someone will pull off something crazy

[timber pawn]

Someone mentioned bloodline the other day, which might be the way with a fast omega weapon (basically just torches)

[surreal hazel]

Ever revived one with Night Bloom and the upgrade that speeds them up?

Damn thing is a brutal autocannon

[low bear]

Geyser + Dem on Persephone feels really good

[carmine lagoon]

Bloodline torches my beloved

[dawn cape]

Born Gain seems like it's still the strongest gain boon but its current balance point means it still requires some magick investment to make use out of

Overall max magick is still a situational reward that only certain builds need, but that's a pretty good way to balance things

If you take something like born gain you get to mostly ignore magick costs as long as you're not completely blowing through it, but in exchange you need to actually get max magick to use the effect with

[twilit pond]

Trying to figure out which aspects to invest in. Is there a recommended list of which ones seem to be strongest?

[dawn cape]

Zeus and Demeter also scale directly with max magick and require active effort in combat to pick up but make up for it by being fully renewable so you don't quite need a ton of magick unless your build chews through it

Then there's poseidon/hestia/apollo gain boons which are basically "use non-omega moves to gain magick for your omega moves" and they don't scale that well at all with max magick, and lastly the utility/mitigation gain boons from aphrodite and hepheastus that generally work best as either a secondary source of magick (alongside Unseen) or for builds that can work just fine without magick

[timber pawn]

Medea skulls, Moros torches, pan daggers, axe is a toss up, Thanatos and charon are both great.
Staff... Momus I guess? A lot of folks feel like all the staff aspects are okay

[primal phoenix]

Can't for the life of me play with the Mel skull, idk why

[onyx ibex]

zeus gain is probably my favourite overall

[amber dagger]

how do i send images

[spare kite]

Send somewhere else > right click > copy link

Can also use sites like imgur

[amber dagger]

https://imgur.com/a/u6fcff1 like this

yippe thanks is that good arcana

[spare kite]

What aspect is this

[amber dagger]

eods

eos

[cedar flax]

okay like seething marauder for the axe is such an incredibly good hammer wtf ? it almost doubles the damage for the omega move

[timber pawn]

The explosion damage won't get modified by your % boons but it's still very very strong ya

[past salmon]

omg my best friend Bismuth Cromweld is here

[past salmon]

can still be boosted by global tho and there is a lot of global; boosts in the game

[timber pawn]

Tru

[night gazelle]

Can you reroll Hades and Athena but not Medea and Icarus and some others?

[amber dagger]

do you mean why

[night gazelle]

Kind of making sure I remembered right and also why

[low bear]

so how does autofire work? When I hold the button down I just get an omega attack

[latent marsh]

What vows are you using for 32 fear?

[desert mist]

Who would you guys consider to be the weakest god in this game? I don't think I've ever used Heph unless I was basically forced to

[magic moss]

the defensive capabilities of heph cannot be underestimated, and in high fear runs hes 4th at worst imo. In my opinion, the weakest god overall has to go to apollo

[desert mist]

Oh yeah that's fair

Daze isn't really all that convenient or helpful compared to other curses

A small chance to avoid damage doesn't seem that helpful when you die in like 5 hits

[carmine lagoon]

tbh the gods are pretty well balanced rn
i remember in H1 you would avoid some gods 90% of the time, namely poseidon and dio were really weak comparatively

every god in H2 always has something useful to offer early on in a build, so it's better imo

[civic ocean]

It’s funny because like I think there is a strength tierlist in my head of each god but I also don’t think it like really matters until you start to get like really high fear

Like I think you could clear every fear challenge the game keeps track of running Heph blasts on every weapon. Should you? Only if you think it’s cool!

[desert mist]

Oh yeah I definitely agree, it's just that I can barely do 16 fear runs and just got curious lol

[carmine lagoon]

In general, Hera is the strongest almost always because of Hitch

[desert mist]

Heph is still fun but I just can never time the blast effect properly and it doesn't really work well on my favorite weapons

And I do not recall what Vent does off the top of my head

[carmine lagoon]

It’s a more unique playstyle for sure

[carmine lagoon]

It makes the other curses look better by being so bad

[desert mist]

Lmfao

[civic ocean]

Vent is interesting like its a lot of dmg and it extends origination for a really long time

But in order for it to be rewarding you have to like not hit with a blast which is anti synergistic

[carmine lagoon]

It does a blast after 5 seconds, and if you reapply it then timer resets. The whole point of heph blast builds is to get the cooldown as low as possible. So by the time I get vent I often have my blasts too often for it to activate

[civic ocean]

You want it to be basically 5 seconds yeah

[desert mist]

Lmfao that's hilarious

[carmine lagoon]

I really hope they change it to at least not reset the timer whenever it’s reapplied

The only situations I’ve found it useful is
a. Don’t have a second curse for origination in a heph build yet
b. Aphro’s nervous wreck

[civic ocean]

I came here with two technical questions.

1. does anyone know if the Air Quality + Scorch interaction changed in the olympic update? Anecdotally it seems the same

2. speaking of heph blasts does anyone know if the aph apollo and aph heph duos work together

[carmine lagoon]

For 2) I don’t think so

[civic ocean]

Laaaame

[carmine lagoon]

Unless they changed it this update but I highly doubt it given they nerfed heartthrobs into the ground

[civic ocean]

Oh well that is gonna be a struggle

[desert mist]

Does talking to Bouldy do anything?

[civic ocean]

Do you have a soul?

[low bear]

Imo (high fear PoV):

Hera > Dem > Heph = Zeus > Aphro > Apollo > Hestia > Poseidon

[desert mist]

Why is Poseidon that low for high fear?

[spare kite]

https://youtu.be/aPCOjJPhSQA unless they changed it for olympus it should work (for 2)

[low bear]

You don't really use him for most aspects except Pan, his other boons are meh and his cast and sprint are bad. Gain is okay but is rarely the best option

[magic moss]

i actually think hestia and poseidon have their own niches now, while apollo is still just lucid gain + blinding sprint, imo
Hera > Zeus > Dem = Heph > Hestia = Poseidon > Aphro > Apollo

[low bear]

Back Burner is pretty good in Apollo imo

[magic moss]

like pos attack and special have decently strong niches, sea star has always been good but stronger now due to strength, flood control + strength is insane, etc

[civic ocean]

Nice thats fire

[low bear]

but yeah Pos is very strong in his niche but otherwise I don't really want to see him

[magic moss]

strength has indirectly buffed pos so much its crazy

[civic ocean]

What is poseidons niche

[low bear]

yeah I haven't dabbled in strength yet but isn't Aphro/Heph still the better option there for survivability

[civic ocean]

Nobody say breaker sprint nyx coat thats my trademark comin in baybee

[magic moss]

resources galor with sea star + splash is good for multihits + flood control for defensive

[spare kite]

I hate breaker on nyx

[magic moss]

heph is better, aphro is largely situational and one dimensional defensive

[civic ocean]

Does it make you miss

[spare kite]

A lot yeah

[civic ocean]

Why is sea star stronger due to strength

[plucky cave]

by pure numbers, the only time where waiting for Vent is worse than applying the blast over and over, is when the cooledown is 2s

iirc for 3s it's only worth if you have a good blast and weak vent

[civic ocean]

Isnt eternity more hp

[magic moss]

duplicate ash and centaur hearts --> more hp which is doubled due to 50% dr from strength

the hp gain is similar to eternity, but strength also gives 25% dmg

[plucky cave]

the dash omega stopping the waves is so

[low bear]

what is Hestia's niche

[plucky cave]

hit and run, origination source

[low bear]

I pretty much only click her for Warmth or Smolder Ring (and I'd rather have Arctic)

[civic ocean]

Its way less isnt it? Like a single DD is 50 isnt it or am I tripping

[plucky cave]

it's 40% now

I think.

[cursive oyster]

1 dd is 40, 3 is 120% bonus effective hp, strength is 50% dr so 100% bonus hp

[plucky cave]

Arctic means that you can't get origination with just the cast if Demeter gives you the cyclone on cast boon

[cursive oyster]

of course dds can be refilled and strength affects armor

[plucky cave]

and also with Demeter sprint

[civic ocean]

And then you usually get at least one refill per run at this point right, like on average?

Ill have to experiment more with Strength

[magic moss]

scorch for blades + freezer burn end game is essentially a free win

[low bear]

I almost always have Hera somewhere so I don't think I really need Gust + Smolder

[desert mist]

Been playing with Strength so much lately I don't think I can easily get used to DDe again

[magic moss]

the main benefit of strength is the fact that you can athena oceanus, and athena rn is just busted

[plucky cave]

while true, if you're at the fear level that takes the expensive stuff vow, you might not be able to afford it

[low bear]

I guess but is it actually better than the usual go-to builds

[civic ocean]

Oh I havent gotten that keep yet just done like 4 runs so far whats it do

[cursive oyster]

summons athena if you have no dds to give you guaranteed epic boons

[civic ocean]

What

[low bear]

Athena is pretty busted yeah

[cursive oyster]

its a little powerful

[civic ocean]

You just get epic boons from everyone

[low bear]

Divine Dash, full DD refills, Stubborn Defiance

[cursive oyster]

sgg please rework stalwart stand

[civic ocean]

Oh is that the prime mana stubbon def

[cursive oyster]

yup

you can get it in erebus on 55 fear

[civic ocean]

Oh dope are people clearing that now

[cursive oyster]

like 3 people have this patch

[low bear]

not everyone, but the people who are actually able to have said how much easier it is compared to before

[cursive oyster]

anyway it completely stops you from using mana at 55 fear

[civic ocean]

Anecdotally a DD every floor would have been uhh

[cursive oyster]

and that is the extent of its impact on the game

[civic ocean]

I feel like no mana builds are in a interesting spot atm like I think of the 12 builds I cooked I went for that like 4 maybe 5 times?

[magic moss]

check the sheet, theres been a lot already

lots of stats as well for all aspects and others if u like that kind of stuff

[civic ocean]

I think im good for 50+ stuff for now I got my own lil stream challenge to cook up and grind but it sounds like a good time

I bet someone else has done selene start 50 by now

[magic moss]

selene does selene start

[civic ocean]

Do people mix in chopped up abandon now

For their 50s

[low bear]

Selene start on Selene is pretty good

[civic ocean]

Are the buffs easier or harder than the crit

[magic moss]

yup

[civic ocean]

I remember the crit was so brutal

[low bear]

Mynt did for 50F Surface since the timer is brutal. I've seen some turn down Hordes and put in 1 void

[civic ocean]

Is timer really bad on surface I feel like it is pretty limiting

I am only doing 7 atm and I almost ran out of time for sure

[low bear]

Mynt's 2 50F wins (that I know of)
1.) Circe turned off the timer lmao
2.) 7 min timer but only 6 grasp with Vow of Void

[cursive oyster]

fangs is easier about 50% of the time fangs is pure rng if you get a stupid “welp guess the run died” room or nothing bad at all

[low bear]

crit as in Suffering?

yeah fangs is easier but the combinations are pure rng

[civic ocean]

Oh is 50f surface super hard eh

Its been really fun to play surface now its like a whole new game and I love how different Prometheus is from the other bosses

[low bear]

like Stun + Invincible on a Banshee will just eat a DD almost always

[low bear]

Honestly I find 32F Surface harder than like 45F UW

[cursive oyster]

immortal enemies my behated

[civic ocean]

Prometheus seems really hard like brother has absolutely no respect for my casts

[low bear]

Invincible needs to be nerfed it's just ridiculous that it's invincible until it's the last enemy

[cursive oyster]

and it ignores your cast

[night gazelle]

The zones where Athena keepsake doesn't work are Rifts, Olympus, and Fields?

[low bear]

yeah Prom ignoring the cast kinda breaks a lot of weapons

[cursive oyster]

correct

[civic ocean]

Is that confirmed as intended

I fought him first time with charon and I was like welp

[cursive oyster]

typically enemies have to have a special flag set to ignore your cast- i think its intended

[civic ocean]

Got his ass with air fryer round 2 tho so

[low bear]

Invincible from Fangs should just be like Mint Condition and have a timer instead

[civic ocean]

Turns out being able to damage ppl while running for your life seems p good vs him? But Im still only at like 20f

[cursive oyster]

invincible from fangs should just be removed from the game

[low bear]

true

I also hate the one where they get the Chronos shockwaves tbh

[cursive oyster]

invincible burner and spinner are the three i have a problem with

[low bear]

Invincible Banshee is ridiculous

[civic ocean]

Good to know ill set my challenge bar lower for surface

[cursive oyster]

40f surface is 50f uw territory

[civic ocean]

Why is that

[low bear]

The enemies are just harder in general

[cursive oyster]

timer is hard, olympus enemies spawn in the rift, everything does absurd damage

[low bear]

Olympus enemies are ridiculous and the minibosses aren't actually free rooms

[civic ocean]

I do feel like the automatons have like a personal vendetta against me the human

Like bro does not need to be shooting his laser that fast chill the heck out

[cursive oyster]

i can’t wait for zone 4 enemies to spawn in olympus

[low bear]

Bro I hate that laser sniper enemy

[civic ocean]

Oh are we confirmed getting a z4 surface

[cursive oyster]

yup

[low bear]

it shoots way too fast from across the map and does a bajillion damage and has MLG aiming

[cursive oyster]

i don’t mind the snipers i mind the sappers

[low bear]

what are the sappers

I feel like they designed the enemies with them aggro'd against each other in mind but that doesn't really come into play and they all mostly attack you anyway lol

[civic ocean]

Yeah the enemies on Olympus felt super strong but I figured I was just bad so its probably both

My old ass really really really misses sorc

[low bear]

I also find Eris harder than Chronos lmao

[cursive oyster]

actually all i hate about the snipers is the shield attack

[low bear]

Eris's damage is bonkers

[night gazelle]

Yeah it feels like surface was clearly meant to be a harder level of run than downstairs

[low bear]

With Chronos I often only die because of timer pressure

[night gazelle]

Do we know whether there's going to be a 4th upstairs zone?

[cursive oyster]

i am all for surface being hard but i want chronos to be a huge difficulty spike from fields

ideal boss/reigon difficulty would go chronos > prometheus > eris > cerbie > poly > sirens > hecate

[civic ocean]

So this thing im doing I am splitting up the gods evenly over 12 runs, 3 gods per run so each god 4 times, two gods 5 times

I think all 4 Hestias are on the Surface runs because Soot Sprint in particular seems insanely high value on surface

[low bear]

Does Soot still cheese Eris? I tried once but it didn't seem to work but maybe I wasn't using it right

[spare kite]

we will get one ye

[night gazelle]

It does but now I feel like Divine Dash does far more

[low bear]

but yeah Soot seems really good for the projectiles

[spare kite]

#h2-discussion message oh hey

[civic ocean]

iirc the game does not consider you to be sprinting for the frames you turn 180 degrees

[low bear]

ah that's probably it then

I wish there was a visual indicator how far away projectiles get deleted

like a circle around Mel when you're sprinting

[civic ocean]

Noooo athena keepsake nerfed before I unlocked it??? Sadge

[night gazelle]

Noo haha I just picked my act2 keepsake before clicking out to click this link

[spare kite]

nah fixed, it refused to work in thessaly

[low bear]

Also I love how Athena says "Your brother's favorite" when you pick up divine dash lmao

meta acknowleding how broken divine dash was in H1

[surreal hazel]

also the most "level and rarity doesn't matter" boon of H1

[low bear]

I wonder what the click rate for divine dash is in H1

[night gazelle]

I love the decision of keeping Divine Dash in H2 but as a special bonus/keepsake boon and not a normal one

[low bear]

yeah it's not as broken as H1 too just because of H2's mechanics so it's mostly fine

[night gazelle]

Yeah, without the game having multi-dash it's very different

[desert mist]

Imagine if they let it work as long as you were sprinting

[odd moss]

Divine Dash being a bonus boon opened the playing field for other anti-projectile boons. The only other one in H1 I can think of is the Athena-Dionysus duo

[spare kite]

Ik what you are getting at but I also read it as if only divine dash worked vs projectiles lmao

[civic ocean]

Couldnt you punch bullets in h1

[spare kite]

yeah

[civic ocean]

Zagreus had just not enough braincells to properly understand physics like Mel does

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah stuff like witch bubbles and dracon spitty things were breakable

[odd moss]

That's true. Divine Dash really just did it all other than like- raw damage. But no one takes DD for that

[night gazelle]

It was incredible just general utility value by effectively expanding your dodge timing window by a lot. And then there was also some Merciful End stuff

[rugged moon]

Honestly i think one of the biggest reasons divine dash isnt as highly clicked as in h1 is the stubborn defiance and full defiance refill are overpowered even compred to it

Even with one dash its still amazing

The cast one is really silly with geyser spout too

[civic ocean]

Power GEYSER

[odd moss]

Are u okay?

[civic ocean]

Hmm could we remake Terry in H2

What is the buster wolf

[odd moss]

Aspect of Medea Skull maybe?

[stable lichen]

i think that just became a hermes boon

[odd moss]

Yeah, plus Gust also has projectile slowing as a part of its effect

[stable lichen]

huh

it does? thats cool

(pun not intended)

[odd moss]

I literally only just realized how it works today
It reduces projectile speed by 60% but only while they're going through gust effects

[stable lichen]

i just thought it was damage and slowing enemies

[odd moss]

Same

This made me remember how mediocre The Swift Runner is now

It's always the first one I sack when I need to fit something else in my deck

[steel sequoia]

small fix update?

[odd moss]

No, the Olympic update.
Since Mel doesn't have a delay before her dash anymore, The Swift Runner just gives small to moderate increase in sprint speed.

[past salmon]

Just crash fixes and I believe tentative fixes to Athena keepsake

[twilit pond]

Do any of you use the auto sprint feature after dashing? Or is holding the dash button preferable?

[worn oriole]

Howdy gamers. 50 fear enjoyers how is the grind going for y’all? Need to get Mel Coat to max rank then I think it’s time for me to run again. Hope y’all runs going good 🫡

[past salmon]

I've been doing a singular half hearted 50F speedrun attempt a day lmfao.

Anyfear has taken over me this week

[worn oriole]

Yeah your Medea speedrun on YouTube was crazy. Is the current meta bad? Honestly seems like with no Suffering 50 seems a lot less pain but no idea yet

[magic moss]

honestly 50F has just gotten kinda boring, with the introduction of Athena alongside the changes to strength, once you get out of erebus its REALLY hard to lose once you get good enough

since you can just athena oceanus, get a deflect boon like divine dash, and its just gg ez

like i did a patch 1 momus replica clear using staff specials and i cleared pretty easily

[worn oriole]

Fair. Honestly I only played a little bit on update so am trying Strength right now and yeah this arcana is busted. Ngl hyped to run it back with the weapons again

hell yeah haha special go brrrrr

[magic moss]

like play 1 run with strength that gets out of erebus, take athena oceanus and fig leaf tart and it just feels so easy

[worn oriole]

Haven't gotten the leaf yet but from what it looks like yeah I'm gonna max that beforehand too. Unless I want to just ball it the OG way but idk

[past salmon]

It's just kinda lame and boring atm idk.
I like challenge and atm 50F isn't giving it to me.
And 55F is so much easier too it's not even funny so I'm kinda just taking a break from high fear

[worn oriole]

Wait what 55 is easier too...that's nuts. Well good luck on getting a crazy anyfear. Guess I should take advantage and mark my territory on the doc again

[past salmon]

I beat it on my first real attempt
Vid is on my channel
It's not just easier it's like 20x easier.

Athena stubborn defiance is stupid

[wind kettle]

tbh i just dont get how to play torches

trying out moros know and im just tanking all the dmg

[rugged moon]

Dash while channeling

[amber dagger]

Eos hide special win

[wind kettle]

so do all high skill players play on kb + mouse?

[rugged moon]

no

i use controller. Mynt is a maniac

[civic ocean]

damn these new keepsakes are crazy eh

[amber dagger]

Is Kbm harder

[civic ocean]

Is hitting in baseball left handed or right handed harder

[rugged moon]

no, typically it is viewed as easier

[civic ocean]

its about what's comfortable for you yknow

[amber dagger]

They both would hurt

[spare kite]

reaper or exhaust frame with aphro atk (mel coat)

[wise idol]

prob reaper

[silent crow]

whats exhaust frame

[daring burrow]

Lmao umbral flames is so brainless

Hold x
Maybe cast
Maybe dodge
Win

Just melted the cyclops lol

[daring burrow]

Just melted prometheus with 0 skill aswell lol

Umbral flames + ice strike + inverted spark (unnecessary) + mega spark + martial art + molten touch + nimble mind + ingenious strike + secret crush + cold storage + fixed gain + nimble limbs

[daring burrow]

Melted chronos too with a less effective build

[low bear]

Best gain for mel torch?

[past salmon]

born

[low bear]

Ah thanks, is it normal to feel like mel torch is just weaker Moros lol

[past salmon]

everything is weaker Moros

[low bear]

Good point but I meant playstyle wise too

[past salmon]

ig yeh
Idk I'm just glad Mel torches are no longer the worst aspect in the game for high fear lol

[low bear]

What is the worst? Pan?

[latent marsh]

What vows do you take for 32 fear?

[past salmon]

I think so?
idk what it actually is tbh
Its one of Pan Persephone or like
Idek lmao
Maybe Circe but staff can always just highroll hammers and then its free so its weird

[low bear]

Depends on weapon but 7 min timer, fill fangs full hubris full debt, denial, and get some scars, full menace, grit, pain. 1 frenzy maybe (or go full frenzy if you wanna get used to max speed)

[low bear]

Circe at least can make Mirrored work for a while when you don't have Hestia yet so that might be better than Mel. You kinda need the sauce for staff anyway

Yeah perse or pan feels right in my experience it just takes a while to get them set up

[past salmon]

Yeh I mean I think staff is actually garbage and completely and utterly carried by hammers

[daring burrow]

Agreed. Relies to much on omega and the omega attack feels really lacking

[low bear]

Staff doesn't really on omega for tjr best buold, in fact you really dont use it once you get mirrored/wickef

[low bear]

I agree to that, if I don't get Mirrored/Rapid/Wicked in Erebus/Oc I pretty much just wanna restart because I don't want to suffer through using the staff with no damage

but I really enjoy it when I do get the hammers

Though honestly Mel Torch kinda feels worse to play because the whole time I'm thinking "why am I not using Moros instead"

at least Eos gameplay is a lot different

[magic moss]

use the specials

[low bear]

Yesh but that's what ypu do with Moros too no?

[magic moss]

im talking about staff

[low bear]

uhhh yeah no

[surreal hazel]

Pinball special is okay now

[low bear]

thoughts on Origination vs. Boatman (and the extra rolls ofc)? for 50F

[bleak night]

just run both

[low bear]

oh what do I give up

[past salmon]

Boatman is better than Orig but yeh I run both nowadays (probs not optimal tho? idk)

I drop lovers + huntress for it

[low bear]

dropping lovers is certainly interesting

[past salmon]

just dont get hit

[low bear]

true enough skill issue

if we get reverse arcan's like the mirror I'd like an origination that requires 3 curses but uses less grasp or something

[bleak night]

Family Fave isn't bad no ?

[low bear]

That's the one boost per god right? I think curses in generally seem easier to get in h2 thanks to cast and sprint and hera being on 90% of builds

[past salmon]

I don't think we will be getting reverse arcana
I kinda hope we don't

[bleak night]

What the hell am I reading https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1247782897457303562/1303667105710735421/image.png?ex=672c961a&is=672b449a&hm=3108f4d92d8f86cac7b60ec0a1e5c9177d14082ddfdcc7be5f3a5cb9b00fb1b0&

[carmine lagoon]

That’s like the worst hera boon lmao

[low bear]

For mel skull is it even worth giving up huntress for orig? It's the same buff

[bleak night]

remove Titan and ball

[past salmon]

Yes because I can't be assed to use an omega every room
Seriously tho, just don't use orig on Mel skulls lol

[low bear]

it'd be more like remove titan and bawl for me

[late lantern]

Is Crystal Figurine or Embryo the better keepsake? I feel like both are almost equally good.

[spare kite]

Embryo I'd say but also weapon/aspect dependant

Figurine has more lows it feels

Most cards that you already didn't activate won't make that much of a difference

[low bear]

Figurine isn't that good unless you hit judgement or something tbh, there are too many useless arcana that you don't really need

so yeah I'd take Embryo because you get the effect immedietaely. Though the truth is just take Experimental Hammer (assuming there isn't a possibility your build gets bricked by the random hammer)

[spare kite]

Didn't know what the context was but yeah ideally I wouldn't take either lol

[brave lynx]

figurine is just extremely feels bad if you hit anything other then judgement i feel. even during judgement runs i wouldnt take it unless i was desperate in biome 2 of underworld lol

[low bear]

even if the experimental hamemer ends up being useless, that at least increases the odds of you getting a good hammer offered in your 2nd/3rd hammer (if you use Echo duplicate)

[brave lynx]

i always take hammer going into fields, just so good. and lasts till chronos

[bleak night]

It lasts as well if you take it after Hecate

[brave lynx]

huh, didnt know that.

[low bear]

I think embryo can be a decent pick for some aspects that utilize atk/spec/mana since you have a lot of good boons you can get

Like Medea if you have possessed or Selene or something

[low bear]

Yeah just gotta take 1 or a couple of free rooms and it'll reach till the end (assumimg no Tart detours either)

[brave lynx]

dont need to detour in tart, fig leaf and run

[late lantern]

Thing with Hammer is that you really need to farm it up to make it useful. And that means doing a lot of brick run.

[fickle glade]

It doesn't even have the range show up so you can run and touch the room safely.

[surreal hazel]

Reads like the original Nexus before the changes

where it did no damage, but applied hitch in this big cascade to nearby enemies

poster of that comment probably hasn't played since that change if that comment is new

no wait, the last part implies they're aware it does damage

I mean, Nexus sprint can do a lot of damage and spread hitch, but you need to get very personal with every enemy you sweep by....

[low bear]

If you equip it in fields or tart it should be safe right? Not sure how many encountets the lower levels are

[cursive oyster]

10/15/20, you can take it safely in tart at level 1, fields at level 2, and oceanus at level 3

assuming you take echo and midboss in fields

[harsh cradle]

I've used Athena's keepsake for about three times, and none of those run did athena appear. I'm sure I had no DD left. can someone please tell me why?

[summer seal]

Bad RNG? Which areas were you trying to use it>? I believe there's a bug where it doesn't work in fields of mourning and one of the surface biomes (Olympus IIRC)

[harsh cradle]

well...Olympus

[low bear]

yeah it's bugged in Olympus unfortunately

[harsh cradle]

I'll keep that in mind. I was experimenting new ideas in some of the runs, and thought I could get DD from Athena's keepsake and save the run, and she never appeared. I thought I had the worst RNG of all lol

Thank for the answer

[timber pawn]

They maybe fixed it yesterday

Greg popped in to say the un-noted patch yesterday was an Athena fix related patch

[heady pine]

What familiar are you using? I played earlier today and got Athena to show on Olympus

[lusty heron]

but did you use the keepsake ?
iirc from recent posts she could still do her regular appearance
but it wouldnt remove the use of the athena keepsake

[heady pine]

during that run i did not use the Athena keepsake, it was a random divine intervention that occured. Hecuba was also my familiar

[lusty heron]

well yeah thats not bugged thats just the normal she may appear or not and the familiar doesnt matter

[daring burrow]

Yesterday I was in mourning fields and heard Mel say "oh hey doggy" and heard a bark, and I assumed it was cause hellhound was coming up... as I was leaving the encounter I saw hecuba. And now I hate myself.

[cursive oyster]

LMAO

[blissful hound]

3rd one

[civic ocean]

I guess you could maybe do it if your plan was to combine hera and hestia for ranged cast and sworn strike with arctic or scorch cast? I feel like that could be decent but not sure what Mel skull meta is usually

Woops no reply hahaha

Now im thinking about some sort of phoenix skin white antler trusty shield combo

[cursive oyster]

not sure how pheonix skin helps there

[civic ocean]

Oh you just like regen back up to 30

But I guess the skin does nothing with scars right

The fire trio is really interesting because there are some things that really support a power on attack based gameplan like the hestia infusion, extra dose, and the heph boons that give dmg vs armor and earth infusion

But other than Nova Strike, which is Air, they don’t have a good boon to utilize those power/dmg% increases

[cursive oyster]

idk i think you need more than 30 health to take advantage of pheonix skin

[spare kite]

If it works like stubborn roots from h1 it should bypass scars

[civic ocean]

Im thinking that Antler bypasses the downside provided you have a high enough base, and you can survive two hits usually at 30 right? So if you get hit only once at a time you can regen it up and you have the crit chance to take advantage of of the power boosts

Silly but could be fun to try

[cursive oyster]

pheonix skin does not bypass scars

[cursive oyster]

yeah but not attacking for 3 seconds whenever you’re hit is too much of a downside

[civic ocean]

I feel like thats just the time between waves or rooms usually

Its moot if it doesnt work on scars anyways for high fear but

[cursive oyster]

it’s also only 3 health per second which is 5 seconds to heal to full from half

[civic ocean]

Yeah thats pretty good if you just get hit once then clean the room

[cursive oyster]

idk i’d just want to not take pheonix skin and just use antler

[civic ocean]

It is pretty expensive yeah

[spare kite]

Are you kidding me

[magic moss]

Sheet has been updated

[past salmon]

Not kidding! Lmao
I have a 50F clear in patch 3(?) with it I think
I love -100 max HP the boon

[spare kite]

Sgg hates healing

[rugged moon]

Yet for some reason apollos infusion works and also isnt even that bad with suffering gone. Esp cause it triggers from armor damage too iirc

[magic moss]

patch 4 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RvNdRHb21JXlMJMkkKhA-34IOFvjH3AJ/view?usp=drivesdk

[past salmon]

I knew it was one of the two! Lmao

[worthy kayak]

anyone got any good black coat builds for around 20F

genuinely died about 10 times in a row to Prometheus

might throw my controller into a wall if i die again

[vernal dock]

Only a few runs clear with it but I've had some easy mode runs using Zeus chain lightning and building around Y special missiles.

If you can get Master Conductor duo boon it melts

[safe scaffold]

I've had a lot of success on 32 fear with Zeus attack, Demeter cast and Hailstorm as the base

Aspect of Nyx with Frinos using Death Arcana rather than DDs

[safe scaffold]

I've also had success with a Freezer Burn build w/ Hestia attack and Demeter's cast

[bleak night]

We have a guide up if you wanna see it

[safe scaffold]

Can I see it as well if you don't mind

[bleak night]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1gby4ht/a_guide_on_xinth_the_black_coat/

[obsidian hollow]

So past a certain point in her last phase, Scylla just stops spawning fish

If you just wait long enough

[worthy kayak]

Appreciated

[worthy kayak]

Haven’t got the nyx aspect yet ig I’ll grind for it now

Getting plasma is hella annoying

I need literally one more

Guarantee I won’t get any for another 10 runs nowb

[remote swift]

Any advice for 32 fear on the surface

[daring burrow]

Lmao just played a low fear run of just zues boons. Just running in circles around the mobs casting and melting everything with electricity lol

Was using skull and to lazy to actually use the weapon

[low bear]

Best gain for possessed?

[past salmon]

born ionic or hearth

lucid is like fine and tranquil is uhh
useable I suppose

[round quartz]

I finally got Hermes legendary boon
After 115 hours

[low bear]

I see I clicked fluid it's ayt I guess lol

I LOVE DANAID DAGGERS

[analog ether]

Something I'm curious about, because I haven't come across it before:

So, one of the ways you earn Nightmare is by defeating specific bosses with a certain amount of fear (ex. Defeating Prometheus with 2 Fear from Vows)

If you take the Circe boon that removes one of your Vows, does it still count towards that boss reward?

[low bear]

First strength run done

[brave lynx]

It does. If circe removes one your total fear doesn't go down it just makes the vow inactive

[rugged moon]

Stealth change to rare crop and bridal glow apperently happened in one of the no-notes patches

[low bear]

I'M AN IDIOT

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1303956242552586280/image.png?ex=672da362&is=672c51e2&hm=0e96756565dd4558bea4a3a48bc022151cfad9d39fe35f1815c3115876c560f0&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1375&height=760

[low bear]

so bridal sell no longer works?

[rugged moon]

Neither one use to be able to hit artemis or hermes boons. they now can

still can sell i believe, havent tested that

[low bear]

ohh that's really nice

[rugged moon]

was just shocked when bridal glow hit a hermes boon because it definitely didnt use to

[low bear]

Heroic Nitro Boost sounds awesome

[rugged moon]

its a bit of a mixed blessing that it does because it means its slightly more random on what it hits but also most of the hermes boons are good targets anyway so

[low bear]

Hermes and especially Artemis are usually good targets true

esp. since they can't be palmed, so rarity goes a long way

[rugged moon]

Artemis can be hit or miss imo. the rarity scaling on a bunch of the artemis boons is meh

and also sometimes you just dont get a good one from her

[low bear]

I guess but I'm almost always rolling for Lethal Snare lol

[rugged moon]

thats one of the ones with poor-ish scaling

10/13/16/19. if you already have a rare/epic its a bad hit with bridal

[low bear]

with common though it's pretty damn good

[rugged moon]

oh yeah

[low bear]

almost double, and good hit for rare crop too

[rugged moon]

although at common you could just take phial

which is what i often did if i got a common really good hermes/artemis

[low bear]

assuming you can guarantee it via phial

i.e. you don't have other commons

[rugged moon]

Fair although given that i take rare crop and bridal really highly i usually dont have many commons

[low bear]

also I usually like taking hammer instead if I have a comfortable enough run after Hecate

[rugged moon]

i... dont take hammer much anymore honestly. it just feels like it misses more then anything else

vs getting 15% dodge or 9% crit or 3 sprint shields, etc

upgrading hermes and artemis boons with it just can do a ton of value

[low bear]

depends on weapon of course, but even if it's a brick I can at least get it out of the pool and have better odds of getting a good hammer in fields

esp. for hammer dependent weapons like the staff

melting is also usually a decent pick up to trivialize mini bosses even if I wouldn't normally click it when better hammers are offered

[rugged moon]

fair, idk i just feell ike it usually does nothing because 3/4th of hammers wont effect any given run and 1 less in the pool is a minor benefit to me vs a set benefit of heroic but i also like the shiny and overpick it

Ive started going for Rarity Consistancy vs boon consistancy in my 50f runs

[remote swift]

I’m throwing in the towel on 32 fear surface lol

Every enemy does like 30 damage per shot and getting combo’d into oblivion is nigh unavoidable

[low bear]

What happens if I buy kiss of styx witj stubnorn def?

[past mist]

nothing

[safe notch]

https://i.imgur.com/xMzvaXX.jpeg

havin fun with this arrangement. let the rng gods take me

[past mist]

does mental block have an internal cooldown?

[past mist]

rng gods will not bless you if you're forsaking the true rng. judgement

[primal phoenix]

Damn am doing the exact opposite, boosting rare, epic and duo boons

[pliant birch]

folks please help HOW can I beat prometheus i can't do anything with his lines of fire he just wiped my 3 improved death defiances. like no matter what build. any advice?

[primal phoenix]

I beat him with the knives, mel's aspect and chipping him away with backshots. Rest of the time I was mostly running away

As for the lines of fire well, it's like in a MMO you just have to remember the order and dash in the safe spots each time, not really much you can do besides that

I mean you could pick the ultimate that makes you invincible for some seconds, that could help if you're in a pinch during this phase but that's it am no expert tho, still a pretty casual player

[pliant birch]

I did very well with the flames + special freeze, but THE LINES 😭🫴

[primal phoenix]

Yeah the lines surprised me on my first try too, you really have to find the optimum way to move as he shows you the safe spots each time

I really like that mechanic tho, since I played quite a lot of FFXIV. That was a breath of fresh air

[pliant birch]

maybe I'll try that, thanks! i try to dodge them, of course, but I can't remember the pattern the second time, ademas it's so fast i can't dash out of it in time

[primal phoenix]

Yeah I was quite lucky with the positioning myself, the safe spots were middle and up alternatively soooo quite easy to remember

For me I just got OBLITERATED by that f*c eagle each time he appears

[lusty heron]

There are some cheese ways you can iframe it with dodges if you do it perfectly or just npause between every line and write it down

[pliant birch]

oh 😀 scary. i think the previous time i saw the eagle and soon got killed?? don't remember

[pliant birch]

that's a good idea too! thank you

[primal phoenix]

Trying to iframe it must be really cool, i'll try that next time i think

[lusty heron]

tbh i wouldnt wanna risk it especially on strength

[primal phoenix]

Yeah that bird is really fast and deals some heavy damage, each time I encounter it he chips away at my hp

[primal phoenix]

Well i'm not that high on strength anyway haha

[lusty heron]

its easy enough to dodge anyway

[blissful hound]

name each lane 123 or abc or whatever and say the safe spot to yourself aloud

or just stay at the end of any lane and dash through it as soon as u hear the sound

[spare kite]

Yeah

[pliant birch]

oh cool! thank you

[past mist]

damn 😔

[surreal hazel]

Don't look at where the line are, look at where they aren't. If there's two safe lanes, just pick one and memorise that

[brave lynx]

I tend to use a number system. 1 for top 2 for middle 3 for bottom and just memorize it that way for which lanes are open. Might help if you openly say them to

[vague jackal]

I do the exact same thing

just name the lanes out loud, I'm pretty confident I could still do very well if the combinations were longer and used more lanes, it's like a remembering a phone number for a short while after hearing it

[low bear]

How does splash fount interact with mel torches?

[cursive oyster]

each hit procs splash fount if it is available but only one splash fount can be active at a time, so in reality you’re limited to about 1 proc every 1.5 seconds

[spare laurel]

I have a quick question about Zeus' toasting fork boon. The text is a little weird, and it makes it seem like the blitz only deals the extra damage if it expires by itself. Can anyone confirm if the bonus damage is universal? I don't think they want me to leave the enemies alone but ya never know

I ask because if it's epic or higher, it deals more damage and then I feel like it's a waste to pick it up if I'm actually triggering blitz lol

[spare kite]

Is as weird as you think it, only deals dmg if left alone

[spare laurel]

That's an extremely bad second tier then, isn't it? Even with it dealing double extra damage if you're just like...not attacking, that's going to be much less than it should otherwise

and it encourages not interacting with the combat which is weird

[primal stirrup]

I just found out how busted aspect of Charon axe + Apollo magick boon is
You can just spam your cast and omega special infinitely

[low bear]

ahhh so it's not as good as I think but pretty decent still

[low bear]

you're not really supposed to intentionally proc, it's just a bonus for when you don't proc blitz in time, but yeah it's not that good

also apparently it works with Romantic Spark so there's that

[civic ocean]

Yeah its only good if you have a specific problem or want to unlock the legendary I think

[low bear]

double strike is kinda the only good secondary boon from Zeus

[civic ocean]

The cl off blitz is probably fine too right

[low bear]

I guess? It doesn't feel like it does a lot

then again if I'm taking zeus I'm probably taking static shock too so it's hard to notice

[civic ocean]

I guess it depends on what your blitz damage is and how many ways you can make lightning bolts

[low bear]

maybe if it was 2 bolts it would be better

but it's pretty far down the list of zeus boons you want since there's already Blitz, Static, Storm Ring, Double Strike you'd rather click over the secondary boons

[civic ocean]

Well double strike at base is like 10% right

[low bear]

honestly I might take Divine Vengeance over the secondary boons too it's pretty decent

[low bear]

yup

[civic ocean]

And the CL at base is 10 so if it hits 2 additional targets it would outperform Double Strike until you have 300 damage on your blitz if you just had the one blitz

[low bear]

I guess but dub strike also works on storm ring and is still good for bossing

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think its easy to be in the circumstances where you prefer DS

CL obviously better with AQ

[low bear]

ah true but it's pretty hard to get AQ online

especially with vow of abandon

they should make AQ scaling tbh, or maybe bump it down to 4 air

[civic ocean]

I am biased but I still like it a lot with scorch

[obsidian hollow]

What’s the best arcana set up for this update?

[lusty heron]

there isnt one

arcana depends on your fear and your weapon and your preferences

[civic ocean]

If you’re thinking about stuff to max out early I would say that a set up of Eternity, Titan, Lovers, Boatman, Fates, Champions, Centaur, Seer, Runner, Furies, Queen, Origination, Sorceress, Messenger and Divinity give you a build that is pretty flexible and works well enough for any situation

Then you would want to work on Huntress, Strength, and the top right corner four for more specific builds. I dont generally use Wayward Son, Excellence, or Artificer much these days

I believe everything in the first paragraph above adds up to 31 grasp? And so you toggle between messenger and sorceress depending on whether or not you use Omega attacks

[desert mist]

Does glamour gain work better if more enemies have Weak?

[rugged moon]

No

[desert mist]

darn

any news on what this latest patch did?

fix athenas keepsake maybe?

[rugged moon]

At least somewhat probably. Also seems to have allower hermes and artemis boons to be hit by rarity effects like bridal

[spare kite]

It broke it but in a positive way apparently

[desert mist]

huh

[spare kite]

People have gotten her to show multiple times in a tow

[desert mist]

wow

[bleak night]

I think it's a story-related thing

[low bear]

So does athena work in fields now?

[proper cedar]

i dont think so

pls help i cant beat 16 fear with staff

my staffs are all max lvl and most of my keepsakes

[lusty heron]

then what vows do you have active ?

momus is pretty good to use

[summer seal]

Mirrored Thrasher hammer boon does a TON of work for the staff, regardless of aspect. Wicked Thrasher is big too

[surreal hazel]

Wicked thrasher is so bonkers

Rapid thrasher is generally better than mirrored unmess you have warmth gain

[magic moss]

mirrored is better than rapid by a decent margin, enough to the point where its actually better to take hestia's keepsake for it

BY THE WAY apparently theres a new athena bug where you can get the encounter multiple times with the keepsake. I consider this a game breaking bug so any runs I see that have 3 athena boons or more will not be counted (since 2 is techincally possible with echo and i trust that you all have some integrity)

[surreal hazel]

Only if you're using omegas

50% faster is double attack speed

[magic moss]

ik and i still think mirrored is better

[surreal hazel]

Huh

[magic moss]

mirrored is straight up double attacks, this means you're omega attacks are also doubled

its apollo legendary without the requirement and infinitely more flexible

because it also doubles your normal attack and the mana cost is entirely negated by warmth gain

[worthy epoch]

mirrored also feeds hexes like nobodies business which is really strong

[surreal hazel]

Yeah, warmth gain is all but a hard requirement for it

[magic moss]

ionic is fine with it, born can work, fluid is decent, lots of decent gains to make mirrored work

[surreal hazel]

And it's kinda dumb with incandescent aura or spirit surge

[worthy epoch]

i think warmth is really easy to get just bc flame strike is already really strong on staff, so you can reasonably take hestia keepsake erebus no matter what

[wise idol]

isnt born bugged with it and is just infinite magick? or was that fixed

[worthy epoch]

still broken i think

[past salmon]

Pretty sure it's still infinite yeh lmfao

[civic ocean]

To add to the stuff below general advice on staff if you’re stuck is to threat it like a stick and ignore the text on the aspects, get a % based Attack boon and one of the thrasher hammers and just spam attacks with some of the dmg% Arcana

If you think thats lame starting Apollo and trying to build exceptional talent, the heartthrob duo, and born gain with lots of mana should be good too

[round quartz]

"Today I'm going to go for Apollo Legendary"
starts with Apollo keepsake
never sees him again for the rest of the run

ends up getting Hestia legendary instead

[past mist]

kinda frustrating that AQ is actually pretty bad with zeus

most zeus things already do near-or-more-than 30 damage per hit

[civic ocean]

I love that I think its so cool

A bunch of the infusions are like that tbh they actually have some antisynergy

[past mist]

do they? I feel like most of the infusions work just fine with the god you have them on

[civic ocean]

Hestia raises power but has no % increases

Heph has % increases but they dont work with blasts

Apollos heals damage after you take it but his status makes it harder for you to get hit and his passive turns off if you take any damage at all

Aphrodite’s status makes you suffer less when you get hit but her infusion makes it harder for you to get hit

[past mist]

eeeeh, not gonna count aphrodite

that's just she does multiple things for survivability

same for apollo

except the passive i guess

[civic ocean]

If you could rank all of the things that provide survivability on how well they synergize with weak would evasion not be the lowest

Like if you’re playing aph and you are given a choice between 100hp and the equivalent ehp from evasion you should take the hp every time if you have weak or life aff

So like Water Fitness would synergize perfectly with Aph

[past mist]

eeeh, other DRs is worse than dodge

[bleak night]

Someone just told me I'm wrong for saying Flame Strike on Than is bad because it attacks quickly

[civic ocean]

I think youre confusing bad with suboptimal right

[bleak night]

Poseidon is suboptimal

Flame Strike and Flame Flourish is turbo ass on Axe

Just use Smolder Ring

[past mist]

dodge and weak still get to independently work as powerfully as they are meant to. but weak + other DR is actively doing less than stated

[civic ocean]

Im not sure thats true, is dr multiplicative and not additive

[past mist]

that's my understanding

from other people talking about it. i don't look at numbers much myself

[civic ocean]

Also while weak and evade work individually they have an overall worse effect on your ehp because neither can affect it at the same time

So the same ehp added from dr hp and armor would outperform equivalent ehp added by evasion

[past mist]

sure, but only in so far as max HP is the only thing that interacts 100% with both of them for EHP purposes

[civic ocean]

Armor also

[past mist]

fair

[civic ocean]

Much in this way we can say that Air Quality isnt totally unsynergistic with Zeus because it can increase the damage of Static Shock by like 200% under the right circumstances right

[past mist]

it could, but it's also very possible to get it to the point of either not increasing static shock at all, or only be a 16% increase or similar

same for storm ring

[civic ocean]

Yes I think it is a good design choice to have infusions like this in the game because it rewards you for planning it out properly

Wind is iirc the easiest element to come by in the game which means you can very easily get in and, say, Scorch, Demeter cyclones, support fire, etc etc

And because you can plan to take low damage high frequency things from the get go you can forgo the % based increase arcana and spend the points elsewhere

[past mist]

eeeeh... except for how you need 5 to activate air quality

so you need significant boon investment into zeus or aphrodite, neither of whom interact well with it

so sure you might have scorch, or demeter cyclones, but it's one of the least splash-able god boons realistically

[civic ocean]

Rapture ring or passion dash, static shock, 1 boon from hermes, 1 boon from artemis/chaos/narcissies/apollo, and one pacified shade is 5

[past mist]

passion dash is often too high damage

[spare kite]

Sacrificing early game power from furies also seems kinda eh

[civic ocean]

Life affirmation then

[past mist]

passion dash is 30 at rare

rapture ring does have decent damage increase, unless it's heroic (25)

[past mist]

life affirmation doesn't interact?

[civic ocean]

Idk ive never had problems getting through ephyra or erebus with flame strike while accumulating wind

Like you can go huntress for cheap to grt you through if the dmg low I guess

[past mist]

flame strike is fine for getting you through on time. but flame strike is also the only thing it interacts with that is at all close to being worth the 5 boon investment

[spare kite]

Is furies 3 or 2 again

[civic ocean]

2 so you could just go that haha

[past mist]

rapture ring, common passion dash, any rarity static shock, these are pretty low damage increases

[spare kite]

Static shock's pom scaling is also really good

[past mist]

yeah static shock can incredibly easily get to 30 on its own

[spare kite]

Support fire is def good for AQ but also is support fire

[past mist]

sure i supposed support fire is a good one for it

and makes it actually pickable

[civic ocean]

Usually I am looking at 4 or 5 of:

flame _____
Smolder or rapture ring
Dem cyclone
Static shock
Support fire
Zeus hestia duo
Hestia aph duo

Prominence Flare

[spare kite]

Cyclones are def the best AQ use ngl

[past mist]

nah that's anything scorch

but cyclone definitely 2nd. but also pretty secondary

idk, 5 boons is a high requirement for anything to go online

frosty veneer gets away with 6 because it's ridiculous

[spare kite]

If the game had less global buffs I'd appreciate it more

[past mist]

yeah that's the other problem

[civic ocean]

I guess so, I have really enjoyed the build and played it a lot at 32 a lot before my break

[past mist]

just too easy to bring damage numbers up over the 30 mark passively from other stuff

[civic ocean]

I think there’s advantages to be had as a result right

[past mist]

fair, if you're aiming for it specifically (sister blades/torches flame strike builds) it's fine

[civic ocean]

I did mel torch and pers skull mostly

[past mist]

but frequently when i'm heavy in zeus or other air element stuff and see air quality, i check what i have and it literally does nothing for me

storm ring at common would benefit, but can quickly get to 30 on its own. static shock benefits too, but is also one of the boons i'd be rarifying if i see it early

and both aphro and zeus attack/special don't benefit

[silent crow]

id rather scale static shock with poms

[past mist]

yeah, that too, static shock scales neatly with poms

[silent crow]

its flat +5 per pom its actually insane

ive never had aq do anything anywhere recently

[past mist]

guess it affects electric overload..? but that means picking electric overload

AQ works well with scorch, basically an alternative to freezer burn? but yeah

[spare kite]

King ramson into echo's pom my beloved

[paper berry]

Advice on how to deal with Charybdis?

[past mist]

cry. hitch maybe. idk, hope others have actual gameplay advice. what are you struggling with?

[civic ocean]

If you hit more than one tentacle at once its good

[cursive oyster]

charybdis is a “have good dps or die” fight for me

[daring burrow]

I find Talos to be by far the hardest hitting least avoidable sub-boss

Charybdis is a chump.

[low bear]

I end up taking a lot of damage in Charybdis because the fight is so damn long and I want to rush it

[amber dagger]

That is a hot take

[vague jackal]

hes not difficult for me, I just think that the design is trash and boring

the arena being oddly restrictive, you never get to actually smack its face

[bleak night]

I really don't enjoy the Charyb fight, ye

[vague jackal]

raise thy hand, thou who liketh charybdis

[daring burrow]

I'm not saying I like charybdis, I'm just saying it's not that hard.
Also when I hear people struggling with poly or hellhound it's awkward cause they're the easiest ones lol I absolutely melt poly at this point no matter what broken build I'm using (chasing prophecies still so end up taking alot of non-synergy stuff)

Talos is the biggest prick harder to avoid damage than pretty much any other boss but he gets crickets nobody ever talks about him lol I guess he's avoidable but still

[vague jackal]

Talos often gets 2nd on my surface runs on damage received, charybdis not really. Just not a fan of the fight at all

[lusty heron]

Chary would maybe be more fun if you could hit his body during the „intermissions“ when theres no tentacles

[vague jackal]

good point, thats one of the negatives, you're always hitting a proxy

[untold zodiac]

AQ also works well with Hitch

[civic ocean]

kinda

it doesnt work the way one would suppose, unless it's been changed

if you deal 3 instances of 2 damage with hitch you deal 34 damage, not 90

[civic ocean]

just had a fun heph blast build

[last sun]

heph's builds are so good. bonus fun if he has duo boons with the other gods!

[civic ocean]

Two heroic blast boons with triple heartthrobs and Prometheus still almost killed my ass at 24 fear

[surreal hazel]

where'd you get 34 from?

[errant seal]

Ngl Prometheus is easily harder than Chronos

I think the biggest difference is in the aggression of the AI, at least that’s how it feels

Prometheus loves to rush you down and his blue flame attacks give very little room to breathe or escape his blows

I’m not sure how much Prometheus needs to be nerfed, but compared to Chronos he’s the superior titan

Makes me scared of what’s to come beyond him - ||maybe whatever has been keeping the fates?||

[last sun]

i feel like with prometheus (the few times ive fought him), he doesnt leave room for going in and jabbing- at least when chronos is winding up attacks you can easily try and juke 'em and then get him from back (which i tend to do a lot)

[stuck ether]

I just think its bc surface is meant ti be harder

[stable lichen]

yeah especially since chronos has so many charge attacks like the scythe fan in which you can literally just wail on his back

olympus in general is just a lot harder, what with the satyrs who can snipe you with 3 30 damage rockets offscreen or the machine gun robots who also have shields as a giant middle finger

[daring burrow]

@daring burrow attack causes hammers, specials causes hammers, cast causes hammers, then take boon for anytime a hammer drops it can drop another. Basically one combo everything lol even from full armor

And of course don't forget dash hammers

[cursive oyster]

anvil ring does not count as a full blast sadly but chain reaction is fun

[daring burrow]

Ankther run I did yesterday was all zues. Ended up with heroic lightning when I dash and just kept sprinting circles around everything and letting zues do all the work lmao. Absolutely MELTED poly cyclops

[civic ocean]

30 2 and 2, the first instance goes to 30 due to AQ but hitch is cumulative

[surreal hazel]

huh

[civic ocean]

Prometheus would be way easier if your cast worked on him and its not entirely clear why it doesnt

[low bear]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1233146305308528650/1304459470105215056/image.png?ex=672f780d&is=672e268d&hm=622118ad67de96ac70e6d413685db856f3dc9f92005d6ec7c7f1256da43e607f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1375&height=755

[surreal hazel]

how is that cumulative? isn't that that just number stacking

[low bear]

thanatos is too good

[civic ocean]

The way air quality is worded you would think that every instance of damage from Hitch would deal 30 damage but Hitch adds up all the damage you deal over the course of the status and I call that cumulative maybe im using the word wrong

[carmine lagoon]

Is 34 confirmed from testing?

[civic ocean]

I can confirm that I have had air quality hitch before and watched the green number over their heads jump to 30 and then increment in the smaller number

[carmine lagoon]

Huh, alright

[surreal hazel]

pretty sure Hitch damage otherwise ignores all damage modifiers though

since it's basing itself on damage that's already been put through other modifiers

[civic ocean]

Yeah its not like bad it just doesnt work optimally, like scorch

Or rather it doesnt work the way you would intuit it visually

Which is probably good balance wise, it would be pretty funny if it actually 30xd Scorchs damage

[surreal hazel]

I'd personally untiut that it wouldn't be boosted for anything, but hey

[civic ocean]

Yeah one or the other. I do think it is still hilarious that pyro technique like…makes it deal less damage

[surreal hazel]

yeah.... until you get Burning desire

where pyro technique becomes an S++ boon

[civic ocean]

Well with AQ its the same unfortunately since pyro technique is just increasing the damage of each burn tick

[surreal hazel]

well yeah, but it just becomes irrelevant

[civic ocean]

I mean AQ is still substantially more damage with burning desire right

[surreal hazel]

no faffing around with 5 air to activate it etc...

[surreal hazel]

and nothing else? Sure, infinite burn at 150dps

no wait, 120?

I forget how many ticks scord is now

[spare kite]

80/s base

[surreal hazel]

ticks a second

[spare kite]

Oh that

[surreal hazel]

burning desire scorch is also a guarenteed Origination proc which benefits Pyro technique but not air quality

[civic ocean]

I dont remember exactly either but like it is a lot more impressive than PT

And its too bad that they dont add ticks to PT instead

[civic ocean]

True but if you think about it the other way Air Quality saves you 5 grasp

[surreal hazel]

so +100% pyro technique is 240DPS

[surreal hazel]

ehhh, in the vacuum of your only damage coming from scorch

being able to easily stack two curses and then pummeling everyone is well worth that 5 Grasp

[civic ocean]

Right but you select the damage you deal and the cards you pick right

[surreal hazel]

The discussion basically boils down to Air Quality being generally lower investment other than going very Zeus-y

And PT with Burning desire is the aphrodite blend

and has much higher potential, but does need more specific boons to really get going

[civic ocean]

You go aph either eay

Since she gives wind and has 2 boons that you can reasonably get aq to buff

[surreal hazel]

the trinity setup there is obviously glamour gain with Island getaway

[surreal hazel]

Apollo gives air and fire, so it sits on the quadrant better

[civic ocean]

Fire doesnt help scorch at all

[surreal hazel]

and heck, Air Quality actually makes glorious disaster actually good somewhat okay

[civic ocean]

You can go all 4 of those gods too aq does make prom flare good

[surreal hazel]

Demeter loves a bit of air quality too, but she's over there in water/earth so ehhhh

[civic ocean]

Also I feel like 5 air is easier to get than specifically Burning Desire and I think unless how PT works was changed you need to specifically get BD for PT to be good?

[surreal hazel]

The Air Quality cast stack of choice would be smolder ring, that cyclone from demeter, Prominence flare and glorious disaster

[surreal hazel]

PT is still reasonable if you're really stacking scorch

that is you've got an epic on your attack on some rapid attack weapon

[civic ocean]

But like you will still deal the same damage just faster

[surreal hazel]

Actively fights against freezer burn builds, which are hella strong, so there's that

(Burning Desire and Freezer burn is disgusting, btw)

[low bear]

Freezer Burn lets you have Arctic too

[surreal hazel]

which is a pretty strong choice

one of those boons where rarity is largely irrelevant

and completely irrelevant once AQ steps in

[civic ocean]

Anyways PT should increase tick rate not dmg per tick that is my selfish wish