h2-builds-and-combat

[torpid crane]

bruh

[mild phoenix]

basically makes the game playable rng-wise

[torpid crane]

so there technically aren't that many 64 heat clears

[mild phoenix]

I think haelian calculated that it would take on average 8 hours to get the desired first boon at epic rarity

yes there are, they just use mods that don't affect the skill required to clear at all

[torpid crane]

[mild phoenix]

Like, without mods, everyone would be miserable resetting for first boon and first hammer. As I see it, the mods basically cut out that resetting

[loud moat]

Yo, wierd interaction I just found. Unsure if its known or not. Had the Infusion for Self Healing (apollo). Regen some health every time you lose health. But also had the Nightmare hex. Whenever I would have taken damage during nightmare, I was getting health back even though I wasnt actually taking any damage.

I also had the Hades regen boon from earlier, but by the chronos fight it had been finished up. Would need to play through again to test it but was unsure if anyone had encountered this either.

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/878498859783950367/1280013002581741619/image.png?ex=66d68881&is=66d53701&hm=bc1325ff7c79baf6aec9252d7bde5aa6300cbcab00a6e1da3835c2b4640ade57& i am this close to just giving up

where tf is my kings ransom game

WHERE MAN I JUST WANNA HAVE FUN WITH FUNNY BIG LIGHTINING NUMBERS

[torpid crane]

did you get it..?

[magic moss]

nope

[surreal hazel]

Needs more electric overload before you do a king's ransom

oh wait, no blitz

huh, weird interaction due to changed duo requirements: If you have Seismic hammer, a single tick of arctic ring will trigger the blast

[pseudo sequoia]

doesn't king's ransom require an attack or special boon from zeus or am i misremembering

i think you'd probably more likely trigger queen's ransom in any case lmao

[surreal hazel]

It needs any core boon from the one benefitting, and one of the bottom three core boons from the one you're sacrificing the boons of

so that setup is acceptable for King's Ransom since Born Gain is there

[pseudo sequoia]

ahhh okay

[surreal hazel]

and vice versa, for that matter

[sweet girder]

I'm giving up on Thanatos, I just can't get everything I need in one run, like i can only get 1 of the 3 things I'd want in a run xd. Which aspect should I try?

[limpid coral]

than wants literally one thing and its hera attack ???

[sweet girder]

I struggle with bosses so having a cast really helps, and having Hephaestus is a live saver with its defense and material art boon

Or I'm just coping

[magic moss]

hera start reroll miniboss for storm/arctic ring, take heph keepsake into oceanus

[sweet girder]

Oh I actually didn't know reroling bosses could get you new boon types. Thanks 🙂

[spare kite]

Yeah minibosses always offer boons so is a great way to get who you need in the pool

[limpid coral]

so like every aspect

except moros

Yea if u roll a midboss door it'll be a midboss but a different god

[fervent river]

@magic moss hi - i was contacted about possibly making a mod to help track high heat runs and was told to contact you. i was curious if you had some time to chat via DM?

[magic moss]

oh yeah absolutely

[fervent river]

sweet 🙂 didn't want to DM out of the blue

[magic moss]

all good

[sweet girder]

ik why i've been strugling with bosses now, I haven't been using special block with thananos in bosses xd

why did it take me so long to realize that

[wild swan]

it not working in specific circumstances in the hecate fight convinced me it just didn't work at all for a while lol

[rugged steppe]

Hi, someone here knows how exactly aspect od Persephone works and if the Cast damage thing works wih boons that make your normal cast do damage?

[cursive oyster]

persophone gives you complete freedom of movement while using your ospecial, accumulating glory extends it by up to two seconds, and yes most cast boons affect glory but engagement ring and smolder ring do not

[rugged steppe]

oh, okay, so it extends the special by accumulating glory. Does the lighting bolts from Zeus Cast boon affect glory?

[sweet girder]

does anyone here know when to equip white antler. Is it for tartarus with heph sheild?

[rugged steppe]

nvm, I just tested it, it works, thanks for the help though

[magic moss]

antler really is only when you desperately need damage to make time, regardless of whether you have trusty/mint condition, or you are playing for speed (as in speedrun times). Otherwise, its better to take Lion Fang if you need damage but still have a decent amount of time left

[past salmon]

You click antler tart because it is the based thing to do

[magic moss]

[cursive oyster]

you click antler tart because big numbers are really funny

[spare kite]

Antler is just really funny

[sweet girder]

i mean if you die in one hit anyway xd

BRO another 2nd phase chonos i lost to. I'M SO CLOSE!

[torpid crane]

hell yeah brother

[torpid crane]

did you have antler

[sweet girder]

nah

I just had a phase 2 chronos loss again the next run xd xd xd xd xd xd

i'm actually gona die

[surreal hazel]

you'll get it

phase 2 ends up being easier than phase 1, plus every near miss run is a lot more psyche and dust than a bad run

[cursive oyster]

they already did

[surreal hazel]

huzzah

[sweet girder]

What aspect should I try next. The knives, skulls, or staff.

[magic moss]

staff :) not biased btw

[worthy epoch]

Skulls are fun as long as its not persephone

[elfin ivy]

Knives for the funny

They're like that first love you'll never truly move on from to me

[nocturne heart]

real 😭

[past salmon]

Medea is the one true path to greatness

[rustic egret]

You use her as a weapon??

[past salmon]

yeh I swing her around like a bat

[pearl drum]

suggestion for a 32-heat run to unlock the final skellie statue?? 🙂 I've finished the max heat on all weapons, but it's that 32-heat run that is being elusive! At the least, I'd like to do a surface run, so that it's only two worlds prior to the 1.0 release when I presume the entire path to Olympus will be required to get the statue haha.

my favorite weapon is aspect of charon, but i'm struggling to find up to 32 heat vows that will match my playstyle.

[torpid crane]

defining your playstyle would be a start. is timer an issue for you?

[pearl drum]

Ooooh. It's not, until it becomes one haha. I can generally do 7 minutes fiiine, I will struggle with five minutes. I like high risk, high reward playing!

[torpid crane]

hmm so no 5 min timer

[past salmon]

I think you could manage 5min if you don't take vows that are overly hurting your speed

5min is easy enough to learn, it's mainly about what rooms you take
I find a lot of people still spam tart rooms and skip midshops on 5min and then lose to it

[sweet girder]

just maxed out all arcanas 🙂

[sweet girder]

Why do I choke so hard xd

I died with 3 dd on chronos with epic storm ring and dash hammer with aspect of mel axe.

My heart rate goes way up and I just choke xd

[thick saffron]

Frosty veneer saved my first 32 fear run

With than axe and hera attack you should be able to clear in 5 min per biome

[azure notch]

is judgment good for high fear runs?

or is it too inconsistent?

[azure notch]

Frosty is good, but I rarely have 6 water affinity by the time it gets offered to me. It's just her, Aphro, Poseidon, and fishing points that can give water affinity, right? And also the extra doorways in Ephyra sometimes have them

[magic moss]

define high fear, and in general no not really. Most of the chokepoints in high fear are in erebus, where the immediate power is very good as to not die to time

[spare kite]

Meme

[thick saffron]

You can also get 2 water from narcissus and up to 3 from chaos. My first 32 clear I got +2 from chaos and that got me there

[thick saffron]

I don't think so

I mean I love my crystal figurine judgement full rng run but not at 32

[stiff cedar]

Boated posted a video doing a 50F judgment run yesterday if you want to go see it, but in my opinion is more of a challenge, not really a good strategy

[surreal hazel]

Is freezer burn the best duo or the best duo?

[sweet girder]

Frosty in 50 fear seems like almost an instant win especially if you have aphro health benefits or heph max hp boon, but you just can't get that much water unless your incredibly lucky.

[magic moss]

back in patch 3 i was cooking with some poseidon start on staff and playing orig with dem aphro and aiming for veneer

[fair narwhal]

Judgement 50 is much harder than a regular 50 yeah

[sweet girder]

That actually sounds so fun to play. You are just invincible at that point. With revives you'd have to get hit so many times before you die XD

[tall notch]

He's the BOAT

[stiff cedar]

And I can't even do a regular 50 💀
You're just on another league

[fair narwhal]

Thanks mate 🤠

[tired fulcrum]

Judgement is just abandon lite

[sweet girder]

fun fact rare crop trumps proper upbringing, or at least it does for me because i got the boons in that order.

[fair narwhal]

In Erebus yeah, you just get to roll for things + make a few extra mistakes

It’s a lot of fun

[surreal hazel]

Trumps in what sense?

Relatedly. TiL that burnt offering can remove rare crop even after it's done upgrading stuff

[sweet girder]

it will set it to common although proper upbringing makes all boons rare

[surreal hazel]

Proper upbringing only rarifies things when it activates

And prevents common boons appearing on normal boon selectors

Ordinary chaos curse will give you common boons. Proper upbringing won't rarify them unless it activates afterwards

[sweet girder]

alr that makes sense

[surreal hazel]

I'm old and from early internet. What does alr mean?

[wise idol]

alright

[mellow scarab]

whats the highest dmg you guys have had as of now ?

[sweet girder]

I've got 285,000 on attack with thantanos

[mellow scarab]

on hades 2 ?

oh wait the aspect jezus

[surreal hazel]

There is no aspect of jesus (yet)

[nocturne heart]

hey guys what vows should i take for 16 fear?

[ocean ibex]

is there a name for the moros tech where you group all your attacks together?

[tall notch]

Are you comfortable with 5 mins timer?

[torpid crane]

5 min on 16 fear is diabolical

[past salmon]

it's literally free Ponch 😭

[tall notch]

It is free if you're already playing at that pace

[wise idol]

Yeah I mean the lower the fear the easier timer is, as well as the fact that you'll get used to it for higher fears

[sweet girder]

does air quality work with scorch?

[magic moss]

yes

[torpid crane]

for new players though? 😭

@severe fossil I grabbed the 30% damage for casts on dark side one time and I didn’t notice any difference in the damage (storm ring). y’kno what’s up with that? like is it omega cast only or?

[severe fossil]

Im not sure about exactly that talent, I don't think I got it even once XD. But overall I'm sure that Dark Side talents affect normal casts

[torpid crane]

I thought it did, but I didn’t notice a difference in damage when I dropped a cast in darkside vs regular. storm ring was still doing 57 per bolt even though I had the 30% cast damage and 20% universal damage

[misty estuary]

What should i get for Charon axe special? i usually get hera but is there a better option?

[severe fossil]

Here my storm ring deals 67 damage before Dark Side and 77 after using hex. I didnt have talent for 30% cast damage, but had +60% to anybody and + 20% to bosses. So I guess not all stuff work. 😕
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx45LHq7Xce_Wc4HU1jiP-nLQgGsQK1NbG?si=LJ279SpjwH6Exznb

[severe fossil]

For real u could get any of Aphro, Zeus, Apollo, Hera. Hera is the best but not mandatory I guess

[misty estuary]

Ty, i got bad luck from hera keepsake

[severe fossil]

The mandatory for Charon is Apollo's gain)

[misty estuary]

I got that dw

GG

[sudden inlet]

So real talk but is Boreal Wind actually slept on? Used it a few days back and it was hilarious seeing all the damage stack up from the Demeter cast+Zeus+Apollo size increase

[past salmon]

Anyone can beat 5min at low fear or at the very least learn how to

Sub 10 is a relatively doable run for most people and that's literally twice as fast as you need to go

[tall notch]

So true, even I have a sub-10

[sly mirage]

What would you guys say the best keepsake in hades 2 is? I feel like none of them are very good (in my opinion)

[magic moss]

in terms of dps, survivability, what are you basing “best” off of

[sly mirage]

I guess all? I’m a casual player so idk

[magic moss]

if we are talking overall, olympian keepsakes guaranteeing a god is immensely powerful for every run so they could be considered the best but thats probably not what you’re going for

[severe fossil]

Engraved Pin is definitely the best

[magic moss]

but overall, I would say the best keepsake in general is between Engraved Pin and White Antler. Pin gives you an insane amount of survivability and dps in certain scenarios, while Antler has a high skill ceiling but is the best dps increase in the game if you can utilize it properly

[sly mirage]

I’ve used that but my problem with it is I only really get downed when fighting a boss and I can’t kill it quick enough

[magic moss]

pin’s value comes from the fact that its essentially a free dd every encounter if you can clear it fast enough. Its similar to Hades 1’s Stubborn Defiance in that regards

[tall notch]

That's still 10 free seconds where you can keep blasting the boss

[magic moss]

it does struggle vs guardians, but the guardian fights are relatively the easiest because you can learn attack patterns and consistently kill them without dying a lot of the times

[severe fossil]

Ok, offensive Hephaestus definitely doesn't work. It takes forever to kill Sirens.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/557285363257835520/1281428805977903124/20240906043723_1.jpg?ex=66dbaf13&is=66da5d93&hm=c567471201633c96bfdc6f64970ed7535268c9f05e6f40470c570b54eed0d413&

[past salmon]

Pin is definitely the strongest keepsake and it's even more absurd cuz mint condition like exists for whatever reason

Mint condition definitely needs some kind of nerf

[sly mirage]

Hmmm. Okay all this has been helpful. Thanks

On that note what would you guys say the worst keepsake then?

[magic moss]

discordant bell and its not even close

[severe fossil]

Discordant Bell.

[sly mirage]

Lol, makes sense

[magic moss]

honestly i think a health nerf to pin would make it far more balanced

[severe fossil]

I would prefer to limit it to like 3 charges

[magic moss]

btw Pin and Antler are great keepsakes, but there are other very solid options. Metallic Droplet is an incredible take into Fields, Lion Fang is a great dps keepsake for Tartarus if you aren't comfortable with Antler and need more dps (its a bonus 25% damage for chronos if you skip all side rooms), Silver Wheel is incredibly underrated if your build requires a lot of magick (eg. Possessed Array on Skulls), and Blackened Fleece is a good dps buff to omega builds if you have reached the breakpoint (aspects like Persephone, Charon, and Momus benefit greatly since they are so omega focused)

[past salmon]

Ok but I'm so in favour of nuking trusty shield mint who is with me

[magic moss]

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1281432849425367080/image.png?ex=66dbb2d7&is=66da6157&hm=5949be2553811180f2051e9120c40d4cd20929545843a05e4cf2d0bd24535222&

[severe fossil]

Hardly nerf I guess

[past salmon]

Exactly

Throw them in the bin

[spare kite]

Damn

[tall notch]

Very balanced

[magic moss]

this isnt even a small sample size, we are at >350 clears

[past salmon]

I genuinely wish they removed trusty shield and didn't nerf suffering

That would of been so fire

[tall notch]

112!

[magic moss]

it makes 50F a lot less accessible tho to new 50F runners so idk about that

[past salmon]

Seems like a them issue

We should buff suffering to 1000% thoughts

[spare kite]

If we remove medea

[magic moss]

so true

[past salmon]

Ight I'll take the trade

It would be funny

[tall notch]

Just stick to 55f if you want to play hitless

[severe fossil]

I think the problem with Trusty shield is that it is just healing through 100% Vow of Scars. So the main porblem is that Vow that completely cut a lot of boons and things from the game but for some reason not all things that actually heal u

[tall notch]

If they adjusted trusty shield to be 45% less trusty it'd be fine

[spare kite]

Rusty shield

Primes 50 mana, 25% chance of gaining 1 armor when entering an encounter

[magic moss]

I actually think a good trusty shield change would be keep the armor gain but have an added effect where armor blocks 50% (or some %) of the damage taken instead of full damage negation if broken

[past salmon]

I suggested armour to do that in general ages ago

It being just a free hit is pretty crazy

Like Ur really gonna put trusty shield in the same game snow queen exists in

[bright token]

aphro's dash can't seem to be able to crit, is that intended? what else can't crit?

[sudden moon]

Blasphemy⁉️

[split igloo]

I stopped running Suffering weeks ago, after I got my 32 clears, remind me how armor vs Snow Queen works: Armor will eat the Suffering-boosted hit, but Snow Queen negates the hit entirely which means you can still take a boosted hit in any given Encounter?

[past salmon]

yeh

[split igloo]

Got it, thanks.

[split igloo]

Hook Knives + Spiral Knives + Static Shock + Controlled Burn + Wave Flourish

Might be the most nuke-y build I've used yet, as long as you can get right up against an enemies hitbox, it one shots pretty much everything and melts boss health bars

It would work even better with hephaestus boons but I didn't get any this run

[bright token]

@past salmon whats the max dmg setup for medea? i might try it for 32f cause thanatos doesn't cut it, needs too much setup for sufficient solo dps for bosses. i assume blitz for special, hera for attack, demeter and go for +1 antler?

[fair narwhal]

Don’t forget Possessed array and rocket bombard + a gain

[bright token]

if only you could get hammers you want
i'd just play than with rapid slash + exe chop

hammer rerolls would immediately change the game for the better

[fair narwhal]

foolish gets to pick his hammers

sadly hes bad

@past salmon

[sly mirage]

Out of curiosity what do you guys consider the worst weapon and best weapon in the game? (Additional what’s the best aspect for those two/the worst).
I know they are for different play styles but I’m still curious

[spare kite]

Charon on top by far

[magic moss]

worst weapon is very subjective but as it stands imo axe is best weapon, best aspect is charon and worst aspect is circe

[spare kite]

Also worst in respect to what?
Speed/fear/smth else?

[sly mirage]

You don’t even have to look at the question from a stat perspective, you can even look at it in a personal perspective like what you think is the worst or what you have the trouble playing the most

Like for instance, I personally dislike the skull, it’s a cool weapon but for me I always seem to die to the final boss to it

My favorite being the staff (can’t remember the name of the aspect I use but it’s the one with the gem on the top that’s floating)

My favorite in Hades 1 was the shield (chaos aspect) and I’m kinda sad we don’t have a weapon that really plays like the shield does. I know the scythe can block like the shield but that wasn’t what I liked about the shield, I liked being able to throw it and have it return to me

[wise idol]

My favorite is moros but the best is probably Charon

[maiden siren]

My faves and strongest in my hands are Thanatos Axe, Melinoe Staff, and Medea Skull.

Also, hi, first time posting 🙂

I am curious about how other people use Ygnium. I've found it fairly strong if you can get on-hit boons, but I feel like I'm not using it right. 2/3 of the aspects are focused on the special, which I find giga underwhelming. Is there some trick to it with the special that I'm not picking up on?

[wise idol]

The strategy for both “special” aspects is to ignore the special lol, for Mel just spam omega attack and for eos get the day breaker out with hitch on the attack and then hitch as many foes as you can with the normal attack

[maiden siren]

😩 noooo

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit

[maiden siren]

I was hoping there was a secret fun way to use the weapons

[wise idol]

You definitely can use the special and it’s not horrible, but the best way to use them is mostly attacks

[maiden siren]

Yeah it's fun to try and get boon combos that make them work but it's more difficulty for less reward

make them work with special usage*

[tall notch]

You can use special on Eos if you take Zeus, but it's a lot of boon investment for very little payoff. Moros torches special a lot though

[magic moss]

sheet has been updated for today

[uneven palm]

Idk I think Mel Torches is pretty fun. Stack up some omega specials and dance around crowds while attacking and smacking things with the satellites. Looks like this https://youtu.be/YbZHntaPbM8?si=TY0kVPRkyjIPk5c7

Eos with triple comet is also very spicy https://youtu.be/mRr7CblTUoA?si=qeUMcrFbemZK42Vr

[south copper]

Eros best aspect, especially since the torches special nerf

[coarse wraith]

so, out of curiosity, how do people like the Argent Skull? I don't really get how to play with it in a way that feels good yet

[magic moss]

i have a sheet of 50F victory that has a collection of vods with people playing the aspect at the highest level, would that work for you?

[coarse wraith]

probably? Unless the lvl is too high for me to understand hahaha

[coarse wraith]

can you link it here or dm me? thanks a lot 🙂

[magic moss]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Ivfhuer7AyLxQXPIuvLRGigui5-Z2G-gEFk3xWBir4/edit

[sudden inlet]

Axe and all of its aspects are fun NGL but Thanatos is busted especially if you stack it up with Apollo and Artemis

[onyx ibex]

Skull with weed killer (bonus ohm attack dmg) and bolstered array + possessed array is incredible (+2 skulls and pickup causes ohm attack)

just don't use it with hera's gain cuz you will have 0 magic

[maiden siren]

I've only cracked Medea so far. I basically load up x3 and then run into enemies w/ omega special. With the right boons it does a trillion damage. Haven't tried it with any Vows yet though. It's viable because everything dies before you have to deal with it, but with Vows that make enemies more durable, it gets trickier.

I'm considering taking a crack at Persephone's aspect now but can't figure out how to make the omega special last +2 seconds like it says.

[coarse wraith]

As I understand, you have to go through your omega cast with it? Or something like that

[maiden siren]

(Also, I load up x1 and regular special sometimes for light taps on enemies. There's flexibility so you don't have to always use the big big boom of x3 atk + omega special)

[maiden siren]

oh it worked! Thanks!!!

ok it worked once and then never again 😦

[spare kite]

Dmg from your cast charges a meter, meter is used on your next omega for increased duration

[coarse wraith]

Maybe it has to be with the right timing of the omega cast expiring

[coarse wraith]

Ohh, it's way easier than I understood it was, then

[spare kite]

The meter is next to your ammo count iirc?

[maiden siren]

oh!

thanks

[onyx ibex]

Axe with hera special eats so hard

[cursive oyster]

axe with hera anything eats pretty hard

[past salmon]

I think Medea is pretty okay

[sweet girder]

My problem with Medea is that you kinda need to chuck yourself at the enemy and that can lead to taking quite a bit of damage, but you can always just play amazing but I can't XD

[coarse wraith]

You summarized my problem better than I could lol

[past salmon]

Just don't get hit bro it's easy

[high trellis]

Ping me with ur responses if anyone cares to answer, but whats ur favorite build for Lim and Oros {My Preferred weapon [Aspect of Artemis!], I usually run the Sash for the shield}

[split igloo]

Aspect of Pan, Wave Flourish, look for Hestia or Zeus to provide you with a ranged Cast.

[shy bison]

a lot of people are saying born gain is top tier, but wouldn't it suffer during guardian fights?

or is the idea just do enough damage where thats not an issue

[past salmon]

usually not an issue until high fears

[tall notch]

Just click strength and tank all the damage you want

[sweet girder]

What even would the arcana sifts be if you use strength?

Or what would you give up

[tall notch]

Location rerolls + one of the 1-grasp cards you are running

[sweet girder]

Alr, I'll try it out sometime. Is strength good on any other aspect or mainly aggressive ones

[tall notch]

You can use it on most aspects*

*A lot of the other high fear runners are Strength haters and will tell you it's bad, don't listen to them and enjoy your gambling. You might have to reset runs if you don't get a boon room 3 and can't reroll but it's fiiiiine

[past salmon]

Do not listen to the propaganda from Cold

Bro took 200 attempts for Persephone 50F 😭

[stiff cedar]

Btw, out of curiosity, how long did it take for you to beat your first 50F?

[smoky heron]

Does it matter what aspect u use?

[surreal hazel]

Charon obviously cares more for a synergistic special

[narrow acorn]

Does Giga Cleaver and Exceptional Talent still not stack together to create 3-4 omega specials?

or is it still just two even if you have both

[elfin ivy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1038835158729621626/1282433840232792155/image.png?ex=66df5715&is=66de0595&hm=71e67048d17758304ded63d9ac06eb88e927ea2fcb3195c1c2b31d46cb217cfc&

Whoops.

[past salmon]

I think it was roughly ~60 attempts with probably like 50 of them being on patch 1 where I just died Oceanus a lot because Medea wasn't functional back then

[stiff cedar]

Oh yeah, that makes sense, kinda the bad side of getting the game too early

[stiff cedar]

I did like 10 tries today and rage quit because I got the worst rng known to man in a row, almost no skips, every chamber was like 400 types of beyblades enemies overwhelming me and apparently Heph hates me

I got to the Sirens once, that was something I guess

[worthy epoch]

what weapon are you trying out first?

[tribal wedge]

Just thought about this but what aspects wants heph's core boons?

[cursive oyster]

i like heph on mel or than axe special or moros special

but only if he’s my first god from artificer or i’m super low on rolls

[tribal wedge]

Why? Like is there a reason you go for him on those weapons over other gods?

[cursive oyster]

i’m never really looking for heph cores but if i’m already spamming the hell out of axe block might as well make it explode occasionally because none of the other cores do much on mel/than special, and with moros id prefer demeter or zeus on special but since the main reason you special is to make your attacks go crazy %buffs to the special are mediocre and the blast is nice supplementary damage

but if i see heph 90% of the time im rolling for trusty or mint

only like when he’s your first boon due to arti + onion and he’s shoving cores down my throat

anvil ring can work on persephone but storm ring scales so much better and persephone already has great room clear i think

so youd prefer the single target damage

[tribal wedge]

Gotcha

Very good explanation

[past salmon]

Like none of them

Usually you can put him on your like axe special/Moros special or smth and it's fine

[late atlas]

Hello - new player recently - I'm wondering if anyone knows how the huntress card works - if I use a move as an omega, by the time that move hits I've spent mana, so even if I cast it at full mana, do I get the damage buff?

in other words - does it give the buff at time of cast or at time of hit?

[past salmon]

Huntress effects specifically non-omega moves

[magic moss]

The Huntress arcana specifies the wording as "Attack and Special." Note the non plural nature of the wording. This means the omega attack and omega special will not get affected by the damage increase, only the basic attack and special of the weapon

[past salmon]

yeah I wish the game made it more clear but

"Attack and special" is non omega stuff and "Attacks and Specials" is both non-omega and omegas

[late atlas]

wow thats - very vague, thanks

not your answer - the in game description

[magic moss]

yeah

[tall notch]

Yeah and i wasn't running strength for most of these 200. I clicked strength and I beat it. This is proof of strength supremacy

[uneven palm]

I find it pretty hard to justify Heph on attack but special can be fun like on blades or skulls. Like here’s Artemis with a big blast on special doing some work and all the Heph fire boons feeding Slow Cooker https://youtu.be/58xfpUNeYQc?si=vy1fGtiXRk2najYs or Medea with a big Heph special https://youtu.be/qD0v4U1FiT0?si=wHlpiXaoIipgtrmz

[heavy stream]

what does the "+35 Attack Power" entail for the moonstone axe exactly?
what's the base attack power?
and how does it compare to the +30% attack speed from the aspect of thanatos?

[worthy epoch]

Base attack power is what the number is when you hit an enemy with no boons affecting the damage, and is the value that is manipulated by boons to deal better damage throughout your run. High attack power is better affected by high % attack boons like aphrodite or apollo. moonstone axe does (I think) 40 damage at rank 0, and 75 at rank 5. rank zero axe would deal 40 + 80% (common aphro attack) = 72 damage per hit, while the rank 5 deals 75 +80% = 135. Higher rank, better damage changes from boons, very good.

the 30% attack speed from than just means you play in a faster, more stun heavy approach compared to the fairly slow and methodical approach of the basic axe. faster, meaning openings to yourself to get hit at the cost of losing out on the base damage and health of the basic axe. hopefully that explained it okay

[versed bear]

How does Persephone work? I have to damage enemies with my cast and then the Omega Special lasts longer?

[worthy epoch]

yep, using night on your arcana for better omega cast damage really helps, and storm ring/anvil ring are usually the two best options to charge your meter

[heavy stream]

ty!

[worthy epoch]

no problemo

[versed bear]

Thank you. This was really helpful.

[worthy epoch]

of course

[surreal hazel]

Late response, but the game eventually does this to prevent too many side paths appearing. I've seen it happen in fountain and chaos chambers too

[surreal hazel]

lasts longer and is controllable

Nascar mode

[versed bear]

Is it just me or does Chronos's charge attack have more homing than it used to?

[stiff cedar]

Sorry, I was sleeping
I tried Than axe and Moros torches, I'm probably gonna stick with Moros, it's faster after the 3rd chamber than with the axe

[elfin ivy]

Yeah I've had it happen when I took a Chaos Gate right before Chronos (don't ask why lmao)
Pretty weird for it to happen with 3 chambers left tho. I don't remember taking too many detours back there

[surreal hazel]

What can also happen is a chaos gate causes the singular room exit to not be a numeral gate

so you choice can be visit Chaos or visit Dad

[smoky heron]

What build do you use on the torches?

[stiff cedar]

In a perfect world would be Hestia for the magic regen and maybe on the attack, Hera either on the attack or the special, Demeter for the cast and Hephaestus for obvious reasons

[split igloo]

Yeah, I had to stop taking Lights of Ixion in the pre-Tartarus fountain room.

[surreal hazel]

visitig dad isn't meta currently?

[split igloo]

It's not, but I don't play high Fear after getting the 32 statue, and I like Deep Dissent.

[surreal hazel]

ah k

[still haven]

What would you even get from him?
The 50% less allies?

[surreal hazel]

howling soul can be a lot of damage

[split igloo]

I like Howling Soul conceptually.

[surreal hazel]

I hate its homing

[split igloo]

I think the bit where your Cast actually spawns its center on whatever it hits needs to be imported to Glowing Coal.

But it comes way too late. If you want a ranged cast you'll almost always have Hestia or Zeus by that point.

[surreal hazel]

it tries to track, badly, whatever the closest enemy was when you fired, even if that was behind you

[still haven]

Thats funnny lol

[split igloo]

I don't think I've seen that too much, but exactly that (the game deciding that it's going to fire at what you were not aiming) has happened to me recently in other games and I fully believe it.

[surreal hazel]

I mean it's pretty big, so if it's aimed at a swarm of enemies, it's going to hit something

and with gyser spout, it does feel like you're torpedoing enemies

particularly as that 200 damage is considered Cast damage for all of the relevant bonuses

[split igloo]

But more control is more better.

[surreal hazel]

Lightning Lance is generally just nicer, yeah

goes where you put it, doesn't spend 3 seconds flying off and missing

[still haven]

Ive never found lightning lance

Probably because i just avoid zeus cuz i dont like blitz

[split igloo]

Yeah, I don't with Blitz much, either.

[still haven]

If my run starts with zeus boon i just kill myself to reset it

[surreal hazel]

blitz is better on higher fear

[split igloo]

His support boons are pretty slick, and the current Ion Gain is pretty good.

[still haven]

Im at 16.? I think

[surreal hazel]

more hp enemies means you can actually proc it

[still haven]

Havent played in a bit, but i havent looked at guides or asked for help st anything

I dont care enough for that lol

[still haven]

Is it good on axe? Cuz that what i use mostly

[surreal hazel]

Blitz? Not so much, can be okay on thanatos

whirlwinding blitz everywhere

storm ring lasts longer with charon, so it doesn't suffer the way some other boons do if you can't detonate your long cast

but then once you are proccing it a lot, storm ring doesn't help much

blitz can be okay on special if you aren't using charon

since you can tap it as a cancel to just insert blitz into your strings

Other weapons like it better, like torch special

[past salmon]

Makes the rest of tart harder but he can be good

Dissent is very helpful and grudge is ok, I'm personally not at all a fan of howling but ig it's not terrible

[surreal hazel]

And unseen ire remains, ironically, unseen

[spare kite]

Dad call is #washed

[split igloo]

It's no Sigil of the Dead, that's for sure.

[spare kite]

Rest in piece sigil of the dad

[split igloo]

Heh, "piece", like all the pieces Chronos was left in before he got weird with it.

[spare kite]

I should read what I'm writing sometimes, but sure let's go with that

[split igloo]

In your defense, I've definitely seen that very unironically used "Rest in pieces!" and it goes pretty hard as a pre-kill one-liner.

[elfin ivy]

Rest in Bouldy

[surreal hazel]

rest under bouldy

no rest for the one pushing bouldy

Ah, interesting, Horror (Dark side special crits at max range) doesn't actually work that way, it just crits if it hits anything further than 430 units away (Basically the same distance Arphrodite calls "close")

[spare kite]

Why is someone asking for the hp vow to be up to 60% in feedback

[surreal hazel]

more fear ranks for a relatively easy condition?

[elfin ivy]

A specific issue pertaining to their skill 🧐

[past salmon]

Someone really hates Eos ig

Wait they also wanted vow of fury nerfed eww 😭

[cursive oyster]

some people just really like playing cookie clicker

[elfin ivy]

Me when the jacked up difficulty makes the game harder

Who would've thought

[loud moat]

I understand the sentiment, even if it’s a bit harsh of a change. Locking out healing entirely just feels bad imo. Makes moon water useless. Like would there be a practical difference making the vow max out at 80 or 90 vs 100?

[spare kite]

Oh not scars, enemy hp

[past salmon]

even with max scars moon water is still better than nightbloom 😭

[wild swan]

😭

[loud moat]

In the opposing, I’m of the opinion that Vow of Arrogance (prime magic per rarity) should be on by default. At a certain point in a run, you just give up on caring about snagging extra magic.

Base game should be default 5, then the vow ramps up from there. It adds a layer of strategy to when to take certain boons and to manage your magic.

[loud moat]

Oops

[past salmon]

yeh I disagree I just don't think we should be discouraging Omegas

[spare kite]

"look at your new fancy moves, now don't use them"

[loud moat]

Yea. Moon water should really be changed up a bit. I feel like it should default to something like “restore magic” and the heal is still on the X times per biome counter.

[loud moat]

I mean, yes and no. It can be mitigated by pathing towards more magic. Incentivizes taking the titan Arcana Card.

Mostly I see it as a way to keep your magic management in the foreground. Just the baseline 5 is super easy to play around with. It’s only 10+that really starts to mess around with omegas, especially if you start with titan.

[past salmon]

idk if you want that just turn the vow on

I really don't think there should be a baseline thing encouraging people to just run magickless builds

[loud moat]

I’m more thinking about it in the way that it encourages you to keep your magic up if you want it. Even non magic runs I end up with 100+ magic.

My point is t whether I can turn it on or not, more that I see the mechanic itself (a slight check on boon rarity) as healthy for balancing and influencing reward choices.

[cursive oyster]

this wouldn’t encourage people to better manage their mana it would encourage people to not run omega builds

[loud moat]

It’s two sides of the same coin realistically. And it doesn’t have to be 5 mana to start. Maybe 1 then the vow bumps it to 5.

Other than Charon/Lucid Gain, there aren’t many builds that get shafted immediately with even the 5/10 primed right from the gate.

It incentivizes mana management

[tall notch]

Exactly this. Most of the strong builds in high fear already don't use omega moves if they can get away with it because of how punishing magick management is. If anything, something should be done to encourage the use of omegas, not further pushing us to play manaless

Looking at Mini's sheet, roughly half of the 50f clears didn't use a gain boon. Sure some of these were Eos/Persephone with Unseen so they can get away with it but that's still a massive number of clears where ignoring the mana system altogether was optimal

[magic moss]

Hilariously enough, with @past salmon clearing Mel Staff and Circe for the first time in patch 4, we are now at 200 unique 50F clears in Patch 4. Congrats to everyone who managed to clear!

[cerulean atlas]

what is hapaetus good with? i always avoid him if possible hahah

[worthy epoch]

Amazing survivability with mint condition and trusty shield, and heavy metal is pretty good too. Better at higher fears for sure but still great at lower

[cerulean atlas]

what weapon is good with it?

i found the attack, special and cast to be lackluster 😦

i see, so its for defense then, how abt hera?

those are the 2 gods i tend to avoid hahaha

[surreal hazel]

They're great on the move you don't use much

usually special if you're running an aspect that isn't omega special spam

also grand caldera is unassumingly amazing

and poms have absurd effects, getting a 2 second cooldown, is awesome

His cast is raw damage and not much else, but it benefits greatly from Chasm and other cast bonuses in the way that Smolder circle doesn't

[elfin ivy]

I had to Prime some of my brain to understand the logic here (I still didn't 💀)

[elfin ivy]

Hera can be a total beast if you put it on the right moves. Try and see what moves are able to hit multiple enemies quickly (say, smth with massive AOE like the Axe)
My fav combo is her combined with Hestia on the Cast. Scorch and Hitch is generally a pretty devastating combo

[surreal hazel]

hitch definitely is an exponential curse. If you have the means to spread it a lot, then it's great. There's a few combos I've found that work nice

Mint Condition and Nexus sprint lets you hitch and kill the first wave of a room quite easily, since the damage from nexus sprint is applied after hitch is, so it starts to cascade

Local Climate and Engagement ring lets you have a "bigger" version of nexus sprint, while still also just having some other sprint boon (Demeter sprint is also nicely synergistic here for Origination)

dancing daggers will always be great at spreading curses of any kind

[tall notch]

Her attack is the most popular in high fear iirc? Good scaling and useful curse

[surreal hazel]

and dying wish is just hilarious in tartarus

Hereditary bane also suffers from slightly poor wording in the same way broken resolve does. It doesn't multiply hitch damage by the extra %, it scales off of the original damage. so +10% hereditary bane makes hitch go from 30% to 40% of the source damage

(And is totally worth a triple pom in tart)

[cerulean atlas]

hmmm

[surreal hazel]

Born Gain is generally fantastic

[cerulean atlas]

looks like i have to learn more about these, i only uses similar builds everytime, and almost never pick Hepa, and Hera because of its lackluster attack and special

[surreal hazel]

what weapon do you find yourself using a lot?

[cerulean atlas]

i use a lot of Staf, and Blades

sometimes axe, still learning the skull and the dual stick

[surreal hazel]

Sworn Strike is absolutely fine on staff, and Sworn Flourish on blades, particularly if you get dancing/hook knives

And engagement ring is just generally a good choice, with it only being at its weakest during bosses

but even then, hitching scylla and the srens together is a very efficient way to do a lot of damage

[past salmon]

ER is great people just compare it to Patch 3 ER all the time

which is fair
Patch 3 ER did in fact exist
very real and true boon

[surreal hazel]

Busted but also wonky

the current design is a lot more sensible, even if the explosive effect is basically pointless to scale

if you have arrogance on, you actively just want the common engagement ring

Supernova engagement ring is also really hype

[cerulean atlas]

which staff should i use if i dont want to play omega

[surreal hazel]

all three want omegas

but I guess Momus means your omega is more fire and forget?

[cerulean atlas]

i used to use a lot of special momus back in the day, but now it seems like all staff is focused on omega

[surreal hazel]

Or Mel staff gets in your way less if you're trying to do an omega cast

Circe is defintely a staff

[tall notch]

If you don't want to use omegas aspect literally makes no difference

[surreal hazel]

more just a mana regen tool with a finickity bit of bonus damage

[tall notch]

Manaless staff focuses on attacking and the OP hammers

[past salmon]

any of them and just click the funny broken hammers

[surreal hazel]

Oh yeah, wicked mirrored rapid thrasher just wins

[cerulean atlas]

i like the normal attack of the staff, but all of them seems to wants omega spam playstyle

[tall notch]

Omg it's the real Foolish!!! Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[past salmon]

just get the chinese fisherman build

[surreal hazel]

if you have sworn strike, Melting swipe is kinda fun for a weird synergy

[past salmon]

omg is that the REAL coldshade

Mr "I suck rlly bad at Persephone" himself

[surreal hazel]

turns out that silly damage you get hitting armoured enemies with melting attacks is just damage, and will hitch to other enemies just fine

[past salmon]

it can also crit which is fire

I like big number

[surreal hazel]

hah, yes, armour B gone

mirrored thrasher also affects melting swipe, so also armour B gone in one hit

and I think also the fact that melting swipe is like, 50% bigger(?) is low key the best part about it

definitely not one to pick over the thrasher trinity, but still

[tall notch]

Hey it's not my fault the aspect is slow

[surreal hazel]

if experimental hammer gives it to you, you can work with it

[past salmon]

melting is a good hammer yeh
Just outclassed by Mirrored/Wicked/Rapid

[surreal hazel]

no wait, it's literally 100% bigger, lol

suck it, apollo, this is how you go large

[tall notch]

Is mirrored in late fields even a good pickup? No time to get a mana regen unless you click silver wheel

[surreal hazel]

Depends if you already have one

or want to abuse that bug where it doubles with no mana in various cases where it shouldn't

[tall notch]

Regens when you don't have mirrored are detrimental. They just turn off huntress 😭

[surreal hazel]

but muh hearth gain

or Pinata Fluid Gain

[tall notch]

But muh free 50% attack dmg

[surreal hazel]

Spam more omegas

idk, I like huntress too, just gotta push more buttons I guess

or run thunder sprint with spirit surge

hoping for mirrored thrasher too

[tall notch]

Omega staff 🤢

[surreal hazel]

now now, not everyone can be as good as Charon

huh, still had the script up for the staff hammers and, hrm

StaffTripleShotTrait = This is what is currently being used for double moonshot

wait what. Has someone used Momus with Mirrored Thrasher recently?

there's code specific to its omega attack here that I can't make sense of

it's like it changes the interval to 0.5 seconds instead of making it double?

[tall notch]

Shhh we aren't supposed to data mine in this server

[surreal hazel]

that's about spoilers, I'm literally looking at how the game currently works

I also think I've seen the bug where it doubles up attacks when it shouldn't, kinda

[past salmon]

isnt this how its been forever

[surreal hazel]

maybe? I dont't momomuch

[spare kite]

For stuff like this as long as you don't post the code outright is usually chill

[surreal hazel]

stuff you can just find from playing the game itself, just found quicker

Hrm, something else too, if you have spiral knives on pan, you can get 21 knives shot. but I think the fan pattern crosses over at the back?

it's set to make every projectile angle 22.5 degrees away from the previous, so it might even be asymmetrical, heh

but it does oddly mean that if you're using pan and spiral knives, face away from the target for the best results?

[split igloo]

I don't think it's 21 with Spiral Knives.

If I'm remembering my Magick counts correctly it still caps at 16. Even says so in the tooltip for the Hammer.

[surreal hazel]

you can definitely change it past 16, it just overlays the firing arcs on each other

[split igloo]

But caps the Magick cost?

[surreal hazel]

it doesn't cap it, it is using more

but the visual indicator of where the daggers are aiming are overlapping, so you don't see them, I think

[split igloo]

What I mean is that Spiral Knives changes your Magick cost per knife to 2 Magick (down from 3) and the charge stops at 32 Magick.

So there's either a lot more hidden going on or Spiral Knives sets your max count to 16.

[surreal hazel]

not quite, it's a bit weird with the stepping

where some stages still cost 2, but only add one more dagger

but Pan does just.... add more projectiles with a mana cost of 3 each

from what I can see

[split igloo]

Okay, there's more than I remember.

[surreal hazel]

I'm also pretty sure I've seen the dagger indicator go a full 360 degree angle, but still have a bunch of mana ticking up on the channeling icon

[split igloo]

That's weird. When did that change?

[surreal hazel]

I have no idea

also spiral knives also improves base chanelling speed? interesting

[split igloo]

Alright, Spiral Knives is a stronger option for Pan now, cool.

To match the initial charge rate, maybe?

[surreal hazel]

kinda

the first stage is 0.32 secs of charging, but after that each stage is 0.14 seconds by default. It's 0.1 secs when spiral knives is used

Also it says here mana cost is 20 for spiral knives at full charge

[split igloo]

I'm getting 35 with Pan.

[surreal hazel]

which means its adding 5 more at a cost of 3

which seems to be correct, since each stage in spiral knives is written manually, and pan just adds its own thing on the end

...or at the start, not sure

probably at the end

I can DM you the relevant script bits if you're interested

[split igloo]

Nah, don't sweat it. But thank you.

I tried taking programming classes in uni and this stuff is impenetrable to me.

[surreal hazel]

this is easy to read

[split igloo]

I'm good.

[surreal hazel]

but yeah, spiral knives starts at 6 cost with 4 projectiles at minimum

each stage adds 2 mana, but 2 more knives..... except the third from last and last stage, which cost the same but only add one more dagger

also means that spiral knives and sudden flurry mutliply together, oof

[loud moat]

Thats uncalled for. Its just an opinion man. Im wanting to discuss priming magic as a tool and how its used to balance the game. We can disagree but you dont have to be a jerk about it

[loud moat]

Someone a few weeks ago tested it. Essentially the Momus turret with Mirrored Thrasher does double the amount of omega attacks but stays within the same timeframe that the "turret" is set for.

No idea how that interacts with Heph Legendary boon though.

[surreal hazel]

but it sets it to 0.5 gap?

[loud moat]

Yea, 2 Omega Attacks every .5. Over the course of 1.5 seconds (turret duration)

#h2-builds-and-combat message

Heres the gif.

[surreal hazel]

waiiiit, it's not saying every 0.5 seconds, it's saying half the timer (so 1.5 > 0.75)

I seeeeee

[loud moat]

im incredibly curious about Heph Legendary interaction with it as well.

[surreal hazel]

So with Fine Tuning it's just going to be a mess, 6 pulses with 0.25sec gaps?

                ChangeValue = 0.5,
                ChangeType = "Multiply",```

[loud moat]

No clue. You have looked at the code of it all?

[surreal hazel]

derp, it says Multiply right there

[loud moat]

So what would momus omega attack look like with Fine Tuning then?

[surreal hazel]

it would give you an orb that lasts 1 second, and fires a pulse every 0.2 seconds, for a total of 6

[loud moat]

Yoooooo weird

[surreal hazel]

wait, fenceposting problem, hrm

[loud moat]

but also, cool. Ive found that with enough omega attack speed, you end up in certain momus builds to just spam omega attack, making the turret itself a bit useless. The other omega attacks are still useful.

having it proc over 1 second might incentivize keeping it in 1 place. I love momus, really opens up the staff to multiple kinds of builds. Omega and otherwise.

[surreal hazel]

it really makes a difference, can work against you in a small number of cases

(The 1.5 sec interval is great for staggering blitz, for example)

[loud moat]

Is there a timer on blitz and how soon it can be proced?

Like can your turret both apply it and proc it multiple times?

[split igloo]

The animation takes time to play out.

[surreal hazel]

so it gets applied after the damage that caused blitz happens, so it can't self-proc like that

but yeah, the animation is like. 0.5 secs?

[split igloo]

I do like that Momus does a lot with Cross Cataclysm.

[loud moat]

I love cross cataclysm. Its a bit gimmicky, but the cool factor just makes it worth it. On top of the free omega damage.

Whats the loop on Blitz specifically? And is there any way for Momus staff (with hammers and Heph Legendary or without) to have your turret self proc it? Like is there a sweetspot with the timing of it all?

[surreal hazel]

0.5 is fine for self proccing

but the first will apply, second will proc (if it does enough), third will apply it again

with 1.5 sec you can apply it, pummel that guy yourself to proc it, repeat two more times

[loud moat]

But increasing that cadence in anyway means the timing gets off because of Blitz animation?

[surreal hazel]

yeah

[loud moat]

So ONLY Heph Boon will self proc

[surreal hazel]

but that's like, the only time I can think of that's bad

[loud moat]

But mirrored thrasher throws the timing off

Well at least we can say that there is "technically" a downside to Mirrored thrasher. Its just that good of a hammer

[surreal hazel]

I'm still not sure how you even get 6 shots out of a mirrored momux, there's very clearly a value here called CastRepeats = 3, and I can't for the life of me see how that gets doubled or ignored

[loud moat]

I think it still fires 6 times, but it does double the omega attacks.

[surreal hazel]

it clearly fires 6 times, but the script checks your aspect deliberately

it only adds a double shot to non-momus aspects, but for momus it changes a different property that halves the shot interval on the pulses

which is all well and good, but it's still seemingly counting to three

[loud moat]

Hmm unsure. Its a bit over my head at this point. Maybe its something with how the turrets are coded?

[surreal hazel]

waaaait

I'm reading the script for the cast repeater, derp

There we go

Mirrored thrasher doubles the repeats, and then after that, if you have Exceptional Talent, it adds one more

....wow, apollo, you stingy

[loud moat]

Apollo Legendary makes your omega attacks with Mirrored only do 3 then?

[surreal hazel]

7

it doubles it first, then adds one, if those effects are in play, in that order

it doesn't even add one more then double that

[loud moat]

Thats with momus specifically

[surreal hazel]

or just add 3 each time

[loud moat]

The other staves will be 3 Omega Attacks? Or 4

[surreal hazel]

yeah, that's a momus omega attack thing

the others just add one to the projectiles I think

no wait, you get 4, lol

there's a block of code that checks if you have mirrored thrasher or momus, and if you don't, you get double the waves, gap of 0.2

then there's a check for having mirrored thrasher, and if you do, it doubles the number of pulses

and then the momus stuff is handled elsewhere entirely

Melinoe doesn't even fire the first shot of her omegas when she has Momus, the orbs do it all

[loud moat]

Now thats a fun fact

[surreal hazel]

it's a curse of how many interlocking systems there are in the game, there's a lot of special exceptions programmed in

[loud moat]

I enjoy Volcanic Strike with momus personally. Im pretty sure it still prcs the attack boon on the momus turrets

[surreal hazel]

it will do, yes, the orb inherits the entire boon table

the blast cooldown is a global cooldown, it doesn't actually care who or what procced it

[loud moat]

Yay. Now the real question is will it proc love handles automatically for you

[surreal hazel]

which means, oddly, if you have that Night Bloom upgrade that gives your summon your Special Boon, it can trigger blasts itself and put your special into cooldown

and vice versa

[surreal hazel]

Love handles only looks for blast effects occuring for any reason, as far as I can tell

[loud moat]

On the topic of love handles, does the Poseidon/Heph duo (cast does heph blasts) proc love handles as well?

[surreal hazel]

Yep, it's a Blast, with all the trimmings, just a little buggy with its damage font colour

[loud moat]

Itd be super niche, but Im curious. There must be a reason to have gated the Volcanic strikes/flourish for cast behind a duo boon

[surreal hazel]

Grand Caldera and Furnace Blast work with it just fine

[loud moat]

I wonder if its for flavor, or just for balance reasons

I would love it to just be regular Heph Cast boon

[surreal hazel]

Dunno, but for legacy reasons of its old requirements, it's currently a little buggy

it used to need Gyser Ring, a now defunct core boon which is basically Gyser Spout now

now it needs Tidal Ring, Anvil Ring or Gyser spout, the latter of which can go on top of any core cast boon

[loud moat]

I forget what that change was.

[surreal hazel]

Gyser Ring was a base cast boon, but instant detonation

Gyser Spout is that, but a secondary cast bonus

[loud moat]

Right jsut like Apollos Prominence Flare being "base"

[surreal hazel]

what you have now with Seismic hammer is that it's looking for certain kinds of cast damage, expecting you must have gyser ring

[loud moat]

Then they made that and Geyser into secondary cast boons

[surreal hazel]

but because of how broad that check is, a single tick of Arctic Ring, without even omega'ing it, will proc seismic hammer

[loud moat]

But you cant get Seismic hammer without first having Tidal or Anvil right?

[split igloo]

Geyser Spout is also a prereq.

[surreal hazel]

Gyser Spout is all it needs

[loud moat]

Ahhhhhh so any gods cast will do

[surreal hazel]

Tidal and Anvil are okay too, any one of them

That same update broadened some boon prereqs

the only legacy one that remains is Glorious Disaster, which needs prominence flare still, due to how it works

[loud moat]

Glorious Disaster is in such a sad state

[surreal hazel]

But then Glorious Disaster is just bad so eh

Apollo has some REALLY fussy duos too

[loud moat]

I tried getting it to work with Nightmare (Regular Cast procs Omega) bnt you NEED to infuse 30 magic into the cast in order for Glorious Disaster to function

[surreal hazel]

and basically only two of them benefits you for doing apollo things, or need you to use apollo boons to work

[surreal hazel]

That's Sanctity

[loud moat]

Its not tied to the Omega Cast but by proxy, its tied to the magic you have to infuse with it.

[loud moat]

Yes, within the Nightmare hex

[surreal hazel]

it's a second stage, yeah

and, it's slow and expensive to cast and doesn't even give you that much more damage

[loud moat]

I just said nightmare for shorthand cause I dont have all the Hex bonuses memorized. On that not, I wish there was a way to check Hex improvements outside of combat, or even on the hex choice screen.

[surreal hazel]

there is

go to your boon list on the left, scroll down to you hex icon above your healthbar, press Special

[split igloo]

I'd say Air Quality can make Glorious Disaster better but it makes a lot of stuff better that doesn't involve locking you out of your cast.

[surreal hazel]

It makes prominence flare so much better that you don't even need glorious disaster any more

[loud moat]

I know that, I mean checking the bonuses to the hexes themselves when you dont already HAVE a hex. Like in the crossroads. At the moment, Selunes page only shows your hexes you can get, but no other details

[split igloo]

Which would make it neat on Charon, but Charon's just broke spamming instant Omegas without downtime.

[surreal hazel]

15 magicka to do your huge cast damage, plus a chunk more

[loud moat]

Idk about Charon. It seriously just feels like a one trick pony

[surreal hazel]

or 30 more to do just that chunk more, kinda, eh?

[surreal hazel]

it's a very good trick though

[split igloo]

If your one trick is that good, it's alright.

[loud moat]

Also like, unless you roll with Lucid Gain immediately, it just feels like ass to play

[surreal hazel]

still feels a bit like old Thanatos though

[split igloo]

Right, so you can switch between infinite ranged O Special spam and then get in close and blow up with O Casts.

[surreal hazel]

with that you spun, and spun, and spun...

[loud moat]

Im not denying its strong and fun, just like, can I do something other than Cast, Hold special, Dash for 30 minutes

[surreal hazel]

yeah, I seldom use it

Thanatos currently just feels nicer to play

and is one of the more silly Rank 6 aspects

[loud moat]

If it wasnt so reliant on Lucid Gain I wouldnt care that much. But to rely on a boon so much that it literally is impossible to play the aspect without it kinda stinks

[split igloo]

Definitely not impossible to play the Aspect.

[loud moat]

Thanatos is AMAZING. Attack speed is just fun

[split igloo]

But if you don't like the playstyle, I get that.

[surreal hazel]

rank 6 being -45% function time is bananas

[loud moat]

Impossible was an exaggeration before yall come in here to tell me im wrong

[surreal hazel]

especially with rapid slash and nimble limbs

(I had that once and oooooooo)

[loud moat]

Just pointing out that without Lucid Gain or even Born Gain, other Gain aspects just slow down the Charon gameplay loop to the point where its incredibly slow

Ionic Gain is fine too

[surreal hazel]

Thanatos also works nicely with the Kabong build

and generally just plays nicely with all hammer upgrades

[loud moat]

So many things work with Kabong. I love Heph blasts so much. Such a fun boon design

[surreal hazel]

nah, heph is one of the weaker ones to use

you have 300 base power, you want +% damage and AoE

[loud moat]

Yea there are better with Thanatos like Hitch or Aphro

[surreal hazel]

unless you mean Volcanic Flourish

which is actually pretty great on the axe if you don't want to omega

[loud moat]

But Volc Strike isnt "bad"

[surreal hazel]

you can cancel into special from attacks faster than you can loop the combo

[loud moat]

I think it speaks to how strong Thanatos is that the base damage is solid enough combined with attack speed for it to not matter

[surreal hazel]

so you can tap it in between attacks to just delete the enemy

with Mel axe what you want is Dashing Heave, and yeah, that's pretty much it

Than does.... pretty much everything else better

[loud moat]

Than is like Momus in that regard.

[cursive oyster]

rapid slash hell splitter my beloved

[surreal hazel]

Executioner's chop, for easy huntress

[loud moat]

So many chops

[cursive oyster]

just use panic but yeah exe chop is great

[surreal hazel]

Does look quite silly when you're just repeatedly using the most barbarian looking attack on chronos and it's really effective

No elegance of quick zippy strikes and combos

just BONG, BONG, BONG

[loud moat]

With attack speed, who cares!

[surreal hazel]

Still kinda slow

[surreal hazel]

huh new thing

does Solar Ring force proc if Charon Axe detonates it?

it looks like it should?

force proc, as in do its damage pulse even if it's forced to detonate early

[split igloo]

I want to say no.

But I'd need to test it to be certain.

[surreal hazel]

it seems to have specific scripting for early detonation, and the only things that seem to trigger that mentions Charon axe stuff

also on that note, the damage pulse is given a 2.85 sec delay, and that doesn't seem to change based on Chaon's extended cast duration

[loud moat]

Charon procs the Omega Cast specifically, so logically the added damage from the initial Solar Ring wouldnt proc imo

But yea, testing is ideal

[surreal hazel]

normally no, but I'm seeing in the script a special case for it that makes it happen

probably hard to notice, by the time you've laid down the cast and fired the special, it feels like 3 seconds have passed anyway, since casts ignore slowdown

probably only relevant if you're doing the lightning lance trick where you fire the special off first and drop the cast into the shockwaves afterwards

[loud moat]

Oh I always forget you can drop cast mid special with the Axe. Makes more sense with Mouse and Keyboard I suppose. Its hard to do all of that on a controller.

[surreal hazel]

easy enough to do on controller, just press the whole thumb down while holding Y

[spare kite]

Or remap cast

[surreal hazel]

yep, solar ring does work that way

[loud moat]

Im curious if Twin Spark on the torches procs Heph Attacks (specifically the ghosts that split off). I had a run with it a while back but now I don;t remember

does Heph attack only work with the initial attack ghost, or can it also bong off of any of the splits

[surreal hazel]

Anything that is tagged as an attack

[analog fog]

Does anything that increases boon rarity make infusions less likely? Like if my arcana setup increases epic boon chance will that spawn fewer infusions since they can't be epic?

[worthy epoch]

i dont think so, boon rarity only affects boon rarity and not boon chance. boon rarity just means that where a common boon would spawn it would "upgrade" to epic, whereas an infusion is its own thing and thus wouldn't be affected by rarity. think you grab a boon and the options are common, common (epic boon rarity makes it epic), and infusion. idk if that is how it works but thats what interpret it as

if someone else knows better then they can explain

[past salmon]

I think infusions are actually counted as common boons

[worthy epoch]

do you think that bc of the priming in game? that does make sense if so

[plucky cave]

... I just realized Lunar Ray does have aim assist on controller

it's called letting go of the direction joystick

[cerulean atlas]

does Aspect of Persephone effect "Omega Move Damage +30%" affect ALL Omega moves or just the Special Omega?

[spare kite]

All

[surreal hazel]

It's one of the better aspects for a cast build

It's hardly charon. But it'll do

[cerulean atlas]

how does Charon interacts with Death Arcana?

[spare kite]

Doesn't work afaik

[surreal hazel]

I'm not massively familiar with how Death actually applies its crits

[cerulean atlas]

Normal Cast>Omega Special>Triggers Omega Cast, does both count as "last one was different"?

[surreal hazel]

does it apply it to the whole attack, or a single hit, or what?

and does it count from the moment you perform the move, or when it actually does something?

[cerulean atlas]

doenst work? so i cant get the guarantee 15% crit? hahaha

sadness

[surreal hazel]

depends on what it's looking for

if it's looking for you actively completing an omega move, then it will never see the detonated casts as you doing an omega cast

[past salmon]

death doesn't work I can confirm

[surreal hazel]

Charon does enough damage as it is

and is one of those times where Fine Tuning can really be felt

[cerulean atlas]

why is Pan feels so weak, it used to feel very strong

[cursive oyster]

pan requires a lot to get going now that boundless flurry doesn’t reduce magic cost anymore, you need wave flourish ideally at high rarity, then you want hammers, then you need a gain and it takes a lot to get going

[lethal pawn]

Been casually running 12-18 fear after getting the 32/32 fear achivements a while ago, but just wanted to say had a lot of fun with the zeus + demeter duo on the staff with 32 fear and had a pretty easy time ❤️

[surreal hazel]

Kinda middling duo, that

[cursive oyster]

its funny

[surreal hazel]

Cold storage and double strike improve it, and it's never terrible

But hasn't the lulzy potential of others

[loud moat]

Love Hailstorm, but at a glance its literally just a DPS stick you throw on enemies for the length they're frozen . Storm ring on every frozen enemy

[split igloo]

Freezer Burn is an Expanse-style test tube baby of Merciful End, Curse of Longing, and Dire Misfortune in a universe where it's good. Discuss.

[severe fossil]

Howling Soul trolling me at 44F cast only run
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/557285363257835520/1283633505330266194/0912_11.mp4?ex=66e3b45c&is=66e262dc&hm=c6eaa949a9d84e3b3b0af51a44a107d20f3d2cbd90a21c29312fe71294e470cb&

[surreal hazel]

Also just Fire Extinguisher but good

[surreal hazel]

Also hot flash and freezer burn are a brutal combo, and it's only improved by Pyro Technique, rather than hindered by it

[loud moat]

Freezer Burn is fine, can be used in rooms to do quick burst damage, or one giant hit if you build up scorch high enough. Its bottlenecked by a few factors though.

If you have no way of applying scorch quickly before it dissipates (Scorch on a slower attack or special), then you're pretty much stuck with short bursts of damage with no way to get it to a higher amount outside of that Hestia Boon that increases base scorch on non-scorch foes.

The other way its bottlenecked is via freeze. Once the freeze applies, it seems as if you cannot apply any scorch until the freeze effect expires. This also interacts negatively with cold storage meaning it takes 3 or more seconds longer to begin using Freezer burn again.

As a boss killer, ideally youd have Hot Flash --> Apply 1000+ scorch then Freeze for a bajillion damage. But thats so dependent on where your freeze and scorch are being applied from in conjunction with your weapon.

[surreal hazel]

you can cheat a little with smolder ring and the sorceress

your cast doesn't get slowed by time slow, but scorch does

so if you lay down the cast, then start charging some omega move, smolder ring will build up scorch while the scorch itself barely ticks down

the biggest bottleneck I find with it is armoured enemies and amour capping damage

by the time you build up a lot of scorch, there's no point freezer burning it until their armour fails, otherwise you waste it

[surreal hazel]

I did manage to get Room Temperature and Chain Reaction going for a WEIRD synergy that kinda worked

freezer burn them, then blast them to strip the freeze so you can apply more

basically kept letting me do small bursts of freezer burn damage without worrying about losing damage for using it too early

[loud moat]

Ooooo that sounds cool. It does restrict your build in some ways however, requiring either VStrike or Flourish (or I guess technically the Heph/Poseidon duo)

Makes the build more stringent. The ideal combo would probably be dependent on your weapon, but probably
Cast - Scorch
Then depending on weapon, Freeze and Volcanic Blast on either strike or flourish.

[surreal hazel]

I don't think seismic hammer is a valid prereq fo chain reaction

even though logically it is

nah, it's not

[loud moat]

Sadness

It should be, niche as it is

[surreal hazel]

it does look like you can do a Chain Reaction on Seismic Hammer if you have both though

What they've borked is that they forgot to do an inherit function on the seismic hammer blast, so it doesn't get the proper text colour

and I think it therefore doesn't also do the hit slowdown or screenshake properly

Also it doesn't check for omega damage properly, so... it looks like any proper cast damage procs it? It's weird.

so basically any cast damage written in white OR Gyser Spout will trigger seismic hammer, I think

[loud moat]

Hmmm, bug report worth I suppose

[surreal hazel]

Kind of a leftover from when you needed Gyser Ring

basicay means that arctic, rapture, solar and anvil ring will proc it without omega, maybe something dying in engagement ring, maybe not

not hestia, zeus or Posideon casts though, they're separate effects

[lethal gust]

Is it possible to get geyser spout and prominence flare?

[cursive oyster]

no theyre mutually exclusive

[lethal gust]

💀 probably should've checked that

Still made an op build tho

[surreal hazel]

Not even a useful combo

Gyser spout would shive everything out of the way of prominence flare

but the real reason is probably technical

Gyser Spout doesn't detonate your omega cast instantly, it deletes your cast instead and just makes a unique gyser splash in its place, so prominence flare wouldn't activate

[split igloo]

I had to do this when I took Flick Knives and it otherwise killed my run.

[surreal hazel]

?

[split igloo]

Chain Reaction and the Dem/Heph Duo.

[surreal hazel]

ahhh

[split igloo]

Well, the Dem/Heph Duo. I'd Dash-Strike super super late and would only get like, a single slash off for my Scorch.

[modern wadi]

Is anvil ring too good to be changed to a blast effect? I think it would make it more interesting seeing as most other casts are effected by the same gods other effects (i.e. scorch, freeze) i just think itd be interesting

[plucky cave]

has anyone gotten multiple Chaos Rejects

if you have 3 do you just get locked out of boons

[fervent dagger]

anyone have a good skull build? im pretty good, just want to get the 20 heat thing to get nightmare. Also a decent artemis build

[plucky cave]

Anything goes for Mel skull I think

% boon or Zeus on attack, status on cast for origination

[severe fossil]

just get +2 ammo hammer and delete anything

[worthy epoch]

god i am the WORST cerb fighter at 51f

why is he harder than chronos for me im losing it

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1283946866161221726/image.png?ex=66e4d833&is=66e386b3&hm=d39dfb5f906ea1f699d4d85b580412113eee0a1cc9550e750723e104aefc3c76& lmfao its not any better, i have 400+ clears logged

[loud moat]

Does anyone know off the top of their head the hearthrob base damage? Im curious about the interaction with Love Handles/Sunny Disposition/Hearthrobs

for example

If I luck into Heartthrobs from Love Handles first, what will the base damage be of those throbs? Does it give you the common boon version of Heartthrobs?

If you then grab Heartthrob boon AFTER Love Handles at an increased rarity, will the heartthrobs you create then be overridden with the new damage?

Or are the HT made with Heph Blasts and those made by consuming magic different on the back end of things.

[surreal hazel]

120

[cursive oyster]

120/180/240/300 for heartthrobs made from Heart Breaker and 120 for heartthrobs made from love handles, i know that if you have a blitz applying boon and nervous wreck nervous wreck takes the higher blitz damage but im not sure if love handles works the same way

[surreal hazel]

Love Handles will always make them at that damage, it ignroes Heartbreaker

[cursive oyster]

ok good to know

[loud moat]

Oooooo very interesting

Makes sense I suppose, although the perfectionist in me would want the Love Handles HT damage to be uniform, even if it required Heartthrobs to be a new Pre-Req for the Aprho/Heph duo

So pretty much if you want to make a Heph Blast/Sunny Disposition build, the Heartthrob boon is useless other than to open up Sunny Disposition. The most your Hearttrhobs will be hitting for is 120 a piece, although with 3 being made at any given time it catches up math wise to a single Heroic Heartthrob made via magic use

I guess its a good way of staggering damage.

Heroic HT made via magic with Sunny Dispo = 900 (300 * 3 throbs)

HT with Sunny Dispo via Heph Blasts = 360 (120* 3) * Number of Blast sources

Smithy Sprint gets to double dip as well using 10 magic per blast
10 - 360 HT
20 - 360 HT
30 - 360 HT + 900 HT

[glass tapir]

"useless other than to open up sunny disposition" Yeah but that's what makes it pop off.

The impractical dream is Love Handles, Sunny Disposition, and the Heph/Hestia duo boon that lets you do another Heph blast, combined with an omega attack that takes 30 (e.g. daggers with Explosive Ambush )

[loud moat]

Yea true. I’m more thinking of scenarios in which you get Love Handles early. Unless you grab Apollo immediately, the actual Heartthrob boon is a bit useless unless you are already doing a magic heavy build (which with Volc strike/flourish) you more often are not.

It keeps Sunny Dispo open I guess. But then it’s a calculus of:
Do I have 4 gods already?
Do I want to dilute my 4 gods by using Apollo Keepsake
Am I going into Oceanus or FoM etc…

[prisma wharf]

When I'm going up too fight eris, is charon shop supposed to show up twice right away? I saw it after like 7 encounters on the boat and then the last shop before eris

[glass tapir]

Yeah, but when it works it works great. Just had that run with the staff with Mirrored Thrasher, which was crazy. 2 Blasts going off every couple of second making 6 HBs each, plus every 6 attacks generate 6 more heartbreakers

Rapid Thrasher on top of Mirrored would be even better but I didn't get that.

[onyx ibex]

the hammer that gives you 5, and the hammer that makes them explode when you collect them, and then just some good magic regen is a build itself ngl. max out ohm attack damage and you're golden

[livid cairn]

I've gotten to atleast Oceanus in the two runs since getting the fishing rod and taking it and have yet to find a fish spot

[livid cairn]

So is frinios just the equivalent of having the tablet of peace?

[cursive oyster]

yes but you don’t have to play the minigame

[livid cairn]

Oh that's cool. So does he actually make them appear more? Or does he just help with them if I actually take the tablet

[late atlas]

When I slow down time with phase shift, does my cast attack at the same speed or does it slow down with everything else? If I have zeus or hestia on the cast for instance

[vivid acorn]

Anyone knows how the revived servant's stats work with Night Bloom? Does it take less damage from Melinoe, or does it have crazy amount of HP?

[livid cairn]

The skull does actually less than zero damage

[hazy oar]

Hey is it me... or... does the game get really annoying to play at 20 Heat?

[livid cairn]

I mean. That's kinda the poiny

[hazy oar]

No I mean... unfun play.

Like just staring at your screen and just getting frustrated with things

[late atlas]

that's.. what playing a game that's harder than your skill level is

that's why games have easier skill levels

difficulty is frustrating

[spare kite]

what's your vow selection by chance

[hazy oar]

frick me it won't let me copy and paste it

[spare kite]

send to another discord/dm then right click and copy link (or use imgur/whatever)

[hazy oar]

OH NOW I GOT IT Right.

wait hold on

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1284518048971227176/1284627301652234311/image.png?ex=66e751e7&is=66e60067&hm=f146d763eec0267534c07cc34211e5eebdbef3f422cef67b97f8c4ef6063287f&

[magic moss]

commotion3 no arrogance or panic or forsaking

and blood3 jfc

[hazy oar]

Arrogance is annoying

I don't have the regen magic

[magic moss]

but having more enemies that deal double damage is far more annoying than that

[spare kite]

arrogance is just a lil more management

also poms delete arrogance's priming atm

[hazy oar]

but what if that's a bug?

that'll get fixed?

[spare kite]

oh is def one lmao, I had thrown feedback that it should be kept in some way tho

[magic moss]

regardless, unless you’re getting like all epics, centaur + any mana pots should be enough to remove any mana limitations as you progress with the run

and if you are playing an aspect that needs a lot of mana, then get a gain boon like ionic or hearth or whatever and you should be fine

[hazy oar]

kinda ... only focuses on boons

[magic moss]

wym by that

[spare kite]

ignore hp and stuff ig

[hazy oar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1230202656258265088/1274729283730014309/image.png?ex=66e6e828&is=66e596a8&hm=1f2e2dee926e84594c8a737910ceabad1dc399e708fe356a4557cf8f92bf8ca4&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1201&height=671

I like my boons

[magic moss]

thats crazy but like as you get higher fears you gotta learn to make trade offs

thats just the nature of playing higher fears

[hazy oar]

ughs

[magic moss]

as you get better at the game, the number of boons you need to succeed drops significantly

it takes time, but arrogance2 is really a nothing vow as you get higher into fears

[hazy oar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1284518048971227176/1284629353237577771/image.png?ex=66e753d1&is=66e60251&hm=6e65127d6af0a28d8e0c88dc6bf5d4544094337d2dd851d86542080dfb1c268f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1201&height=671

also arcana.

[magic moss]

no eternity is crazy

[spare kite]

[hazy oar]

Honestly I was thinking about it but... I feel like that's Zagreus' thing

[spare kite]

pls just use your defiances

[magic moss]

well no duh 60% more enemies moving 40% and dealing double damage feels awful to play when you only have 1 life

[hazy oar]

Ehhhh.

Fine I'll try using the defiances

[magic moss]

[spare kite]

[split igloo]

It's a family of the House of Hades thing.

[wise idol]

Yeah hades literally had them too

[hazy oar]

but what if we get a supposed zagreus mode? How am I going to differentiate him from Mel in terms of gameplay?

[spare kite]

Finally the people who ask for an extra dash will shut up

[pseudo sequoia]

if we ever do get a zagreus mode i doubt death defiances will be the one thing you'll be able to differentiate between them lol

[wise idol]

Yeah I think the fact that you are a different character will be much more noticeable lol

I also highly doubt zag will be playable outside of a dream (like playable hades)

“Zagreus mode” is just h1 lol

[livid cairn]

Is it possible to beat heracles?

He one taps everything so fast

[late atlas]

It would be cool if they could pull in some H1 weapons

if we're talking about a Zagreus mode

[livid cairn]

On the Artemis blades, does the omega attack speed just mean how fast you blink to the enemy? Or does it give you attack speed for a short time

[smoky seal]

how fast it charges up

and yes, you can beat him

[shadow current]

bonjour!
does anyone have any tips about playing with a mouse and keyboard?!
I'm loosing my mind.

[cursive oyster]

what specifically are you struggling with?

[shadow current]

just moving in general, I'm ashamed to say
I don't even know how to move in a straight line.

in league of legends, you just use your mouse to move

idg how to use the keys for anything other than attacking

[shadow current]

yes it absolutely is, just beat the minotaur first, should be good after that

[cursive oyster]

i mean it’s something you get used to with time, but you could always check keybinds in settings to see if you can find a setup that works better for you

[cursive oyster]

you’re conflating theseus with heracles, heracles is a character in h2

[shadow current]

ah-

[livid cairn]

?

I meant in the first world when he challenges you to a kill challenge. I haven't gotten past world 2 towards Olympus

[shadow current]

ohhhh, yeah no clue

this is the part where i keep my mouth shut

[cursive oyster]

yes it’s possible you just need to have high enough dps and focus on enemies heracles is staying away from

[cursive oyster]

thelassy is the last biome atm, i’d assume the enemies there are temporarily buffed so surface isn’t a cakewalk

[cursive oyster]

sorry i barely play surface so idk much about the specifics of heracles encounters

[livid cairn]

Did the road map say they were planning another surface biome?

You just said last "atm" so I wasn't sure if they mentioned it and I missed it

[cursive oyster]

yeah 2 more in fact

it was confirmed in an interview iirc

[shadow current]

oh well
thank you!

[cursive oyster]

np sorry i can’t help more

[livid cairn]

Noice. They said we can cross our fingers for 2024 for 1.0

I want all the content 😂

[cursive oyster]

they said next major patch in 2024 and early access would last “at least through 2024” but probably more

however i’m predicting the next biome to be in the next update

[livid cairn]

Better than most ea games that stay in ea for numerous years 😑

[cursive oyster]

i think the game should stay in ea for as long as it needs

[livid cairn]

Oh yea. I agree I agree, I was just thinking of 7dtd and their 10 year ea, or project zomboid who's up to 11 now

[cursive oyster]

i’d rather have it in ea for 3 years and be amazing when it comes out than be in ea for 1 year and be mediocre

[cursive oyster]

oh wow thats insane

also not to say the game is mediocre now

[livid cairn]

I know what you mean

But there are also thing to improve and touch up. Sometimes dashes will clip or a weapon won't register. Not often, but you can tells it's not a release yet

[cursive oyster]

oh yeah

also aspect of circe exists

also tempuses exist

[livid cairn]

The skull in general exists 👀

[cursive oyster]

the skull is fun when it works and it works about 30% of the time imo

legally we are talking about build viability

[livid cairn]

Oops. Were in the wrong channel 😅

[cursive oyster]

probably

[wintry spire]

is there a trick to beating the third regional boss? I get it's hp down, then it does this massive, 100hp damage attack that covers the whole field

[past salmon]

you have to go to where he is

[wintry spire]

hmm, i will try that

[surreal hazel]

It's an inverted circle attack, you can see the safe zone near it. It's like Roxy's AoE attack

[surreal hazel]

So, random discussion point... Is spiteful strength in a good place for high fear runs? Currently it feels like it's destined to be terrible most of the time, but if you have only a tiny number of boons anyway, then maybe?

I still think it's a bit underwhelming in its current form though

[past salmon]

unfortunately atm
It's pretty ass

[cursive oyster]

typically for high fear runs the absolute first thing you want to get is your core attack/special making it pretty useless except for like moros/charon which then need to chance into both hera and hephestaus and at that point i’d rather just take sworn strike/flourish

[past salmon]

it had usecases in Patch 2 (because Born gain was a prereq) but everytime I go for/get it in runs since then it's just been worse than clicking hera attack room 3

[surreal hazel]

if only it also applied to un-boon'd casts...

but then again +200% cast damage would be nuts

[magic moss]

eh not really?

if anything, I would say with how the current high fear "meta" is shaping up it kinda needs to in order to find real useage as it stands in high fear

[wise idol]

Yeah 200% on casts would just be on the omega burst since you don’t have a boon, would only really be any good on Charon right

[surreal hazel]

+200% would be either 450 or 750 damage unmodified

depending on your use of Night

825 if you're doing charon

[surreal hazel]

Fair point though, usually Cast damage goes wild when you have something like gyser spout or Tidal/Storm ring

And you can't get a tier two cast mod without first getting a Ring boon

[wise idol]

Yeah I bet the reason it doesn’t work on casts is sort of because of how boring it would be on them

You could argue it’s boring with attacks and specials too but at least with those you have normal and omegas and other boons that don’t rely on a core slot

I think spiteful strength is kinda a for fun duo rn and I think that’s ok

[surreal hazel]

Go the full hog, give it a crazy mana gain if that's blank, give it a crazy.... uhhh... something on sprint

but ehhh, kinda feels like it wants to be a duo that gives you some bonus while your volcanic boons are recharging

as in, while they basically are boonless

[rocky kraken]

hihi is there a decent torches build now? last i played was during early access and hated them lol

[surreal hazel]

it's still early access

[rocky kraken]

oh like when it first came out during may

[surreal hazel]

but Torches got a huuuuuuuge buff on patch 2

[rocky kraken]

just hit me with any build u like and ill roll with it

[surreal hazel]

basically base attack speed up, omega attack is cheaper and attacks even faster still

Build? Eh, anything that likes rapid hits for attack (Hestia got way buffed too)

and dealer's choice on special if you're using Mel

[rocky kraken]

hmm poseidon it is then

[surreal hazel]

trust me, try hestia

when I say buffed, I mean, oh wow, that's a buff

[rocky kraken]

how did they buff it? it just used to stack 3k on a boss if u didnt get the one that detonates

[surreal hazel]

Double burndown speed, way higher scorch applied, her Legendary is now just a regular boon, new legendary

[rocky kraken]

oh gigachad momus is gone

[bright token]

the design is just very weird on it. you have to suffer for a long time without main attack boosted for a chance of getting a moderately stronger, status-less boost

the only use case that comes to mind is when you go for king's ransom and sacrifice hera's attack down the road to be better vs bosses. but it's too hard to pull off with onion, and then you need to worry about magic priming more

[surreal hazel]

Also a couple of reworked duos

Hot Flash is the new Aphrodite/Hestia one, Elementary Particles for Hera/Hestia, both lulzy

[bright token]

also if you get spiteful strength before ransom you'll sacrifice it too

[surreal hazel]

Ransom doesn't sac duos

[bright token]

it did for me

[surreal hazel]

errrr?

[bright token]

the +1 keepsake got smashed

[surreal hazel]

it didn't sac golden rule for me

.....don't tell me it actually matters who gave you the duo

[cursive oyster]

it does

[bright token]

maybe it depends on the god, yeah

[cursive oyster]

maybe

[surreal hazel]

that's unpleasantly hidden

Arguably a bug, even

[bright token]

more like overlooked. i find it very unlikely it was designed that way. duo is endgame, build defining mechanic, why would you allow to sacrifice it

[surreal hazel]

I mean, I've deliberately sacrified elementary particles just to get it again

(With Burnt offering)

[wise idol]

That’s such a fun interaction

I’ve only had it once but I got every infusion lol

Even managed to get the Hermes one just by rng

[surreal hazel]

And Cherished heirloom, Natural selection and a couple of other boons are just sac-bait towards the end of the game

[surreal hazel]

The power of big base stats, oh yes

Kinda odd that the infusions aren't a bit more consistent

the pure fire and pure water gods give you boons that scale forever, but the pure air and earth don't, same odd split for the mixed ones

[wise idol]

I don’t mind that but I do think infusions should be given their own rarity instead of just being common

[surreal hazel]

Plus you'd think there was scalar infusions for each god, but maybe that's just me

Like, Run speed for air, Damage Resistance for Earth, Magicka for water and something something something for fire

cast power

[split igloo]

A thought I've had about Spiteful Strength and also Shattered Shackle is that they would empower Attacks or Specials that are not directly affected by a given boon.

So Zeus, Poseidon, Hephaestus, and Hestia Strike and Flourish boons would still allow your Attacks and Specials to be boosted, because your Attack or Special have a secondary effect that your action afflicts.

Though I suppose at that point it's basically just a Chaos boon.

[surreal hazel]

that's the problem with just raw damage boosts

plus Spiteful strength also suffers from Island Getaway with Flutter Flouish doing much the same thing

but without leaving slots open to constantly waste a boon choice when running spiteful strength

[past salmon]

Tbf that's another duo + a rare+1 or epic flutter flourish

[surreal hazel]

it is, but it's useful in the interim

[split igloo]

Yeah, but it's a boon you'd be carrying to get the Duo in question.

[past salmon]

Just hit spiteful in R6 bro it's simple

[split igloo]

Throwing on Island Getaway is a no-brainer extension of Aphrodite's kit, it's not like Spiteful Strength that requires more careful planning for the build itself.

[past salmon]

Surprisingly easy to get a duo at first miniboss tbh and this is with onion 😭

[surreal hazel]

and flutter flourish is prereq for things, in a way that an empty slot isn't

[surreal hazel]

Although I kinda want to swap the prereq on getaway to not include flutter strike but does include glamour gain

[split igloo]

That's such a mean combo.

[surreal hazel]

definitely with nervous wreck

[split igloo]

I'll take "Everything hits 30% weaker, always" by itself.

Nervous Wreck is just obscene.

[surreal hazel]

and occasionally 15% weaker still

[surreal hazel]

Yes, but sometimes not, it only procs wreck once per enemy, unless it can somehow purge curses

giving enemies on the far side of the room vent is hilarious. slip, not so much

I mean, the other thing to do would be to have island getaway remove the range check on rapture ring's pull effect

which would be funny

[magic moss]

Sheet has been updated, also https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1285362341466083338/image.png?ex=66e9fe77&is=66e8acf7&hm=9e245f5d86fc6153e8fac5f45fd986b57b04c89d40041a97e903e1d700ff4a03& nice

[surreal hazel]

Hrm, it seems that Natural Selection does indeed affect the Artificer, not that it will come up much

[restive olive]

I don't understand, I've gone up to 29 Arcana, got few more cards, and now I've failed 3-4 runs in a row

anyone got a good 29-Arcana build for the daggers?

[loud moat]

How so? In what way?

I just had a cool mana focused build with the torches. Combined with Hearth Gain and some Omega Cast speed, you rip through it. I got Explosive Intent from Icarus and was just blowing things up.

I think that’s what’s going to make certain hexes pop off, magic expenditure and constant regen. Had I an upgraded Wolf howl, I could’ve been jumping around non stop