h2-builds-and-combat

[bleak night]

Unananas also did 48F with Charon

I think if you just do 48F Charon it's not as difficult as any other weapon aspect

[low bear]

though I guess having control of your chambers in Ephyra is huge

[past salmon]

yeah you just get to like
Have your build
And not suffer

[low bear]

feels like Ephyra is what Tart should have been

[knotty fulcrum]

no rebuke?

[bleak night]

They're moving all the weird dungeon mechanics to surface biomes, which tbf makes sense

[bleak night]

yeah, I hate blue hearts on any axe

it forces me to run Zeus so I can break them lol

[low bear]

I guess, but I still feel like Tart feels bad to play because taking side rooms is way too punishing

even going to daddy's chamber punishes you lol

[bleak night]

true

[knotty fulcrum]

+% cast damage works for storm ring right?

[low bear]

yep

[past salmon]

yeh I skip dad chamber a lot of the time
I usually take if timer is ok tho cuz dissent removes tempus which makes it the best boon in the game LMAO

[low bear]

yeah howling soul is nice too depending on the build

for Charon or Pan I usually take it

also Mourning Fields would be so much better if you could turn on all rewards at the same time and they were closer together

[low bear]

Lol an Epic trusty screwed my Moros run priming too much mana

[limpid coral]

Rarity on trusty shield sure is a thing that exists, sometimes

[low bear]

I had amazing Erebus rng before that too

clean candle and born gain

[low bear]

yeah I don't even bother rareifying it when I put on Hephy's keepsake

[limpid coral]

do you want to see 10! or 15! on your screen every room

pick one!

[low bear]

trusty should have had the same scaling as Winter Coat

rarity/levels reduce the primed amount

[limpid coral]

winter coat rarity is also something that exists

[low bear]

tho I guess this is really only an issue with high fear and suffering lol

[limpid coral]

with arrogance its like u rarify it and lose max mana

[low bear]

true lmao, it's honestly just a worst trusty

[limpid coral]

lol

[low bear]

born gain rarity is also interesting to consider with arrogance

[tall notch]

Idk, I like the idea of the 2 boons not being identical to each other

[low bear]

that's fair

[limpid coral]

yea born gain rarity also like... why would you rarify it

[tall notch]

Arrogance is going to be so scary once the pom bug is fixed lol

[low bear]

oh yeah I hope they don't fix the pom bug tbh

lol

[limpid coral]

do you think arrogance will be too harsh if the pom bug is removed

[tall notch]

If they do, I hope it comes with an arrogance nerf. Even with the bug it's a hard vow for mana builds (which are being punished way too much in high fear atm)

[sly plaza]

I need to grind out these daggers on a fresh save. What’s the new hotness as far as builds?

[low bear]

yeah mana system as a whole needs a rework

[sly plaza]

I need to run something fun I feel

[limpid coral]

uh whats your idea of fun

[low bear]

Pan, Poseidon, Hook Knives

or if you're doing Mel, well Mel Daggers suck

[sly plaza]

You’re damn right they do 😭

[low bear]

I would probably go Poseidon attack and static shock, go magicless

[sly plaza]

Like idk what it is. I’ve just not been vibing with the daggers lately

[low bear]

the normals have negative range

[tired fulcrum]

Daggers bad

[low bear]

even Artemis borderline requires Explosive Ambush imo, at least for higher fear

[limpid coral]

arti daggers at least don't need to be upgraded to do their full damage

[tired fulcrum]

Staff gets all the good attack hammers

[low bear]

yeah but the tradeoff is staff is way too hammer dependent I feel

[limpid coral]

if your goal is grind out a clear just reset room 1 for a good hammer

[low bear]

Torch, Axe, and Skull are good out of the box

[limpid coral]

i ended up getting a 42 arti clear playing manaless but thats cause i got all the good defensive stuff and cc with the hitch boons

[dim kestrel]

I think Staff is pretty good out of the box for lower Fear, and particularly no timer

[low bear]

arti manaless is basically just Mel daggers no?

[limpid coral]

you get crit damage sometimes

and can parry to stay in melee range sometimes

[low bear]

yeah for lower fear Staff is decent

I think they need to buff base staff and nerf the hammers so it's not so hammer dependent

[dim kestrel]

I guess you still get Riposte if you pretend to charge up an Omega attack even though you have no mana?

[limpid coral]

yea you can hold the charge attack to parry even if it doesnt actually go off

[low bear]

like 2x attack just plain nearly doubles your DPS lol

[limpid coral]

so you can get some free damage occasionally

[spare kite]

+30 power is hilarious too

[limpid coral]

it feels easier to use than trying to figure out exactly where i need to stand to backstab lol

[dim kestrel]

I got borked by Born Gain with Artemis daggers because I wasn't at 0 mana but I didn't have enough to Omega attack (I had things like Weed Killer that increased its cost), and so Born wouldn't trigger but I also couldn't spend mana

[low bear]

the Moonburst hammers are cool too but I feel like they're too weak on their own

Giga Moonburst with Apollo has insane range, but way too much mana and charge time is too long

[limpid coral]

uh, born gain doesnt require you to be at 0 does it?

[dim kestrel]

most other weapons will proc Born Gain when you don't have enough mana to fuel a move, but that one didn't; maybe because of the Riposte mechanic still caring about charging?

[low bear]

no it doesn't

[limpid coral]

unless your charge attack like cost more than your max mana

[dim kestrel]

no, it wasn't more than the max, just like, it cost 30 and I had 20 or something

[low bear]

I never had an issue with born gain and Artemis

but I did notice a bug where Charon Axe won't proc room 1 born gain on omega special

[limpid coral]

i don't see why that would prevent BORN GAIN! so maybe f10

[dim kestrel]

yeah, I noticed that too. Fortunately there's a mana fountain in the first room

[low bear]

could be true for other axe specials but I don't charge my special in the other two lol

[low bear]

yup or you could use omega attack/cast to trigger it

[dim kestrel]

oh, is it specific to the special? I thought it was just a Room 1 issue with Born Gain

[low bear]

yup attack and cast worked iirc

[dim kestrel]

it's only an issue with Vow of Panic really, which I haven't run often, so I figured I just hadn't noticed it with other moves/weapons

[low bear]

+30 and 2x attack goes hard as a combo

I had a run where I had +30, 2x, and Rapid at the same time

that was pretty damn good

[bleak night]

that + Static Shock

[timber pawn]

Ya that setup overshadows just about everything else the staff can do lol

[bleak night]

ikr lol

[steel sequoia]

staff not apealling for me anymore

i really dont mind 30% omega speed and momus aint that funny. circe looks ok but other aspects are so much better

[civic ocean]

Funnily enough I think Zeus might be the way for max heat again

[timber pawn]

Imo the principle is the same as like, mynts 50 run, you just don't have DDs etc

[magic moss]

yeah zeus just deals with large clusters so well and static is crazy for blue shields

[timber pawn]

So you're probably right

[steady yoke]

thank you!!!

[low bear]

I think staff still needs some work

[magic moss]

staff just feels so hammer gated on erebus i cant find a way to make it under 5 without a decent hammer

[low bear]

imo a cool concept would be getting free instant omega attack at the end of a combo string

[civic ocean]

My theorycraft atm is

Moros 55
Start onion into chaos
Hit favorable chaos
Smolder Ring
Static Shock
Charon
Arachne
Nem
Artemis Support fire

Take pin into Oceanus and assemble AQ Scorch from there

Just don't get hit

[bleak night]

dear god that sounds like hell lmao

[magic moss]

holy hell

[timber pawn]

I feel like that'd be too slow? Idk. If I'm picking something for 55f I feel like I don't want it to be manaless moros

[civic ocean]

Isn't moros the most dmg you can get from a manaless wep atm

[low bear]

manaless moros does indeed suck balls

[timber pawn]

I'd be looking at like Medea, mel skulls, an axe?

[civic ocean]

I feel like with the rate of fire and the explosions Moros has to be the highest

[low bear]

yeah it's either medea or mel skull

[magic moss]

think its medea for manaless damage, manaless moros is just too clunky

[low bear]

your rate of fire is slower without omegas and you'd have to stop to fire off a special

[sly plaza]

Moros out the box alone is nuts. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s the manaless DPS leader rn

[civic ocean]

You special to move yeah

Your special is a pseudo dash

And the fire rate is still pretty good

In fact you don't really want much faster on Moros or you get a traffic jam

[brisk tusk]

@plain fossil 15 seconds off PB with attack only mel torches, first run of the day on no sleep

[civic ocean]

What is pb

[low bear]

personal best

[civic ocean]

No like what is your pb

[magic moss]

xd

[brisk tusk]

oh

9:57 with attack only eos torches

[timber pawn]

Was it you asking about autosplitter btw, someone was, it just got released

[brisk tusk]

sure was! thanks for the heads up

[low bear]

does split hammer make Moros even more OP

[civic ocean]

Should I start autosplitting my 32f all weps runs

Should I include a split for "going to get a drink"

[low bear]

I haven't gotten it in a Moros run I think

[timber pawn]

Probably tbh, it's especially nice for rta runs

[brisk tusk]

probably not if moros special consumes attack ball before it hits, but im not certain

[past salmon]

yeh imagine trying 55F Moros lulw lmao lul

[civic ocean]

I'm sad that I did the volume challenge and then we all immediately got so good at 32f consistency isn't even impressive anymore

[civic ocean]

Bet

[low bear]

so I guess only old Momus was OP enough to get a 55F in

[civic ocean]

I believe

[low bear]

that arcana vow is absolutely brutal

[past salmon]

I believe in you East
Go get em tiger

[low bear]

I wish it didn't exist tbh

or AT THE VERY LEAST force you into a judgement playthrough

[bleak night]

I managed to get to Chronos on a 49 fear run where the only thing missing is timer lol

[past salmon]

I mean 55F is doable
I have an oceanus entry on Medea and Mynt has one on Than so

[low bear]

yeah without timer you have a lot of freedom and pain to work with

[bleak night]

it was still disgusting tbf

[civic ocean]

I mean kinda, I think my old-ass no motor control hands probably can't ever get sicknasty enough with Moros (which I think is like the highest skill ceiling manaless wep atm) to win but I do want to spend at least 1 day a week in July grinding Moros from 35 going up 5 per clear

[timber pawn]

Someone has done a couple proof of concept runs where they just reset every room they died

[low bear]

has anyone tried it with like save scumming for "perfect execution"

[past salmon]

which weps were they using

[low bear]

oh that's what I meant I think yeah

[timber pawn]

Iiii don't remember. Lmao

[civic ocean]

Have we worked out in the code if its possible to get 6 skips in Erebus

[timber pawn]

Chaos naturally, Artemis, nem, fountain, Ixion gate, mid shop, arachne

[magic moss]

ixion gate?

[low bear]

chaos gate item

[past salmon]

Ixion is charon well chaos item

[civic ocean]

Idt you can afford ixion gate on no boatman start can you?

[magic moss]

oh

[timber pawn]

If we're at 55...idk? They're 55 base cost

[past salmon]

its still pretty cheap just get 1 gold room I think?

[timber pawn]

So you probably can, ya

[civic ocean]

Idt you can afford a gold room

[magic moss]

yeah 1 gold room + couple of vases and you have enough

[low bear]

ixion is 98 or something

[bleak night]

Ixion is 70 no ?

[past salmon]

no its defs in 90s

[timber pawn]

Whatever 55*1.8 is

[low bear]

wait is it 70 at max gold fear?

[magic moss]

you just need to get lucky and have the well be in a gold room so the next room has the ixion gate ig

[past salmon]

I mean you defs can

[low bear]

yeah it's 98-99

[civic ocean]

I mean 55 is entirely just luck

[magic moss]

wiki says 55 base

[past salmon]

Like 55F is absurd but like
I got a 55F Medea out and I didnt get every possible free room
No Nemesis

[civic ocean]

I guess you could just get a well in a nem room

[low bear]

I'm sure it's in the 90s because I screwed myself once not getting a gold vase from rushing and I got ixion in fountain room post-syclla. I had low 90s gold

[timber pawn]

It's Def 99

55 base x 1.8 for the fear, 99

[magic moss]

how many encounters in erebus? 10?

[past salmon]

11

• hecate

[low bear]

there is also archne web rooms which is almost a skip

[past salmon]

I'm lobbying for one room in erebus to be moved to Oceanus tbh

[timber pawn]

Ah true. Good call

[bleak night]

same

[spare kite]

Oceanus is like 8 no? + Scylla

[magic moss]

onion -> nat chaos -> gold with well -> charon -> chaos from ixion -> nem (boon) -> artemis -> boon (midboss?) -> arachne -> arachne web room -> charon -> Hecate?

idk was just thinking of some way to get as many skips as possible dont even know if this is even possible

[civic ocean]

You wanna fight the midboss I feel

So you can get a rare/epic boon

But that's hard, like fighting rootstalker with no fast dash is kinda crazy

I wonder if just straight up pin start is good

[timber pawn]

Ya from a time save perspective

[magic moss]

the boon could be the midboss so

[civic ocean]

Moreso you need the boon yeah

[silent crow]

what weapon could even do 55f

[low bear]

I quite like idea of deadline being given every half instead of every quarter

[silent crow]

if u got all the perfect luck

[past salmon]

atm? Apparently Axe can work shoutouts Mynt but probs miserable
Medea is an option but u just die if you dont play perfectly
Moros is doable if you luck into early gain
Staff probably is good if you get the hammers you need
There might be other options (Mel skulls?) but those are the main ones that come to mind

[silent crow]

axe with dc2 sounds like hell

[gritty heath]

if you start with a god keepsake and then it gets onion'd, are you guaranteed another one later down the line or was that your one

[magic moss]

guaranteed later on

[low bear]

Is it possible to get 2 boons in a row from erebus start

[silent crow]

actually so does medea

[past salmon]

it is but its possible

[low bear]

Yep

[magic moss]

actually if you hammer start it doesnt get onioned right

[past salmon]

yeh Onion is just treated as not a god

[past salmon]

yeh but then you wait even longer to get a boon
Fine on some things
Awful on others

[low bear]

Possessed start might not be too bad on Mel

[bleak night]

that's why I start with Zeus when that's on

[magic moss]

so many, and i am giga cooking rn, hammer start 2x staff and get 2 poseidons for wave strike

and then pin oceanus and pray

[tall notch]

skull gamers, does Mel want antler or can it deal damage without it too?

[tired fulcrum]

for 55 you cant reroll tho so you cant get static shock first boon

[magic moss]

can go something else

[magic moss]

xdd

[magic moss]

yeah the more i think about it this might be the simplest way

[past salmon]

For 55?
You send ur hopes and prayers out to getting either possessed early or static shock early or both
It definitely really LIKES antler but ig it doesnt rlly need it

In 53F I will say Mel skulls felt pretty bad without it tho

[magic moss]

im kinda tilted rn

[tall notch]

Im not aiming that high, for now I am doing 32f since I haven't done a single run of mel skulls after the patch and idk how to really play them

[past salmon]

oh yeh just ignore antler then

Mel skulls can go all the way through 50F without antler so

[timber pawn]

Or you can join the speedy side and just... Always use antler

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1252675355907461312/bruh.mp4?ex=66731456&is=6671c2d6&hm=0595fd16dc9d5f6b8bdfd2dc407a67098bbf5a325ce6513e6434542d1fdbae0f& this actually cost me the run im tilted

[civic ocean]

what hit you

[hollow ether]

ok so, got 16f and the 32f barrier looks really threatening

[magic moss]

duo room, poseidon ball

you can very briefly see the blue circle appearing before i dash into it and lose a dd

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1250545672290308097/1252176291784818759/thank_you_dark_souls.mp4?ex=6672950c&is=6671438c&hm=af58d76ba46823fb0375f0a5420bc4a2daf1cc0257575eb82d04789863d18cb6&

[civic ocean]

You can do it! try working up there in increments of 4

[magic moss]

classic

[civic ocean]

I have to redo my guides I've been on break for a bit playing P3R

[tall notch]

Where do they get all the damage from when you don't antler? Does attack keep scaling all the way through a run?

[bleak night]

Oooh, dang. Thank you for getting my run up there before leaving

[magic moss]

what is mel skulls build?

im getting tired of medea and losing dds to absolute bs

[hollow ether]

btw is there like an optimal 32f for axe?

[hollow ether]

i kinda wanna build up to it as you said

[bleak night]

What aspect are you doing it on ?

[hollow ether]

thanatos my beloved

[bleak night]

Let me use the website for it

[hollow ether]

?

[magic moss]

website?

[bleak night]

https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/Oath

[silent crow]

mel axe aphro attack only of course

[hollow ether]

idk what im supposed to see, i just see an empty vow list lmao

[bleak night]

oh, it's weird then. Probs load the home page then scroll down to oath https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/

[hollow ether]

yeah, i can see it now, i just wanted to ask which vows to take for 32f

[bleak night]

Oh, alright then. Thanks for keeping the site running

[tame spindle]

fair enough loool

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1252677909907509290/image.png?ex=667316b7&is=6671c537&hm=9bc3123af4ee021a5445ad8d08135b4e7cb0e0081960dafa4fe19f469e89b640& Try this. Suffering 300% is hard to get used to at first, but as you go it's actually not that bad. If you want healing, you can do 50% and then turn on Blood a bit. As long as you get Trusty Shield, that Vow of Suffering is negated

an additional tip if you think you'll take damage is to let the room traps do damage on you, especially in Oceanus and Fields. They do 1 damage, so that's 4 damage on Suffering hit

[hollow ether]

thx!

i think i will take some healing with blood

[bleak night]

Yeah, that works then. Try to reroll your room doors earlier on, I find Heph shows up quite frequently

[hollow ether]

if you reroll say an ash room can you get boons or only other minor find pools?

[past salmon]

only fury 1 for 32f?

[bleak night]

probs not used to it yet

[past salmon]

no its minor finds -> minor finds
major finds -> major finds

[silent crow]

why is haelians 12f eos run on the leaderboard 😭

[hollow ether]

used fury for the 16 run

might do more healing, less damage and all fury

[bleak night]

if you can do Fury 2, then that frees up 3 Fear for you to remove as you see fit

[hollow ether]

would just have to get used to fury + suffering

[bleak night]

Yeah, sounds good. You can even remove 1 level of Suffering by going Fury

2x instead of 4x on first hit doesn't sound all too bad

[hollow ether]

i will probably do 20, 24, 28 and then jump to 32 then

[white vessel]

Is aphro attack good on Moros? because i think alot of the time i was very close to the enemy

[magic moss]

it can work, but most of the time since you are already going hera for born gain and heph cuz heph spiteful strength is often times just strictly better. However, aphro attack is still good

[white vessel]

whats spiteful strength?

i did a run with hera atk, and zeus special and it was crazy

[silent crow]

hera heph duo boon, 200% atk and special dmg with no boons on them

[magic moss]

hera heph duo boon that increases attack and special damage by 200% as long as you dont have a boon

[white vessel]

cool

[hollow stag]

How’s this Staff Attack Zeus build?

• Hammer Attack 2x
• Hammer 50% faster Attack
• Zeus Attack
• Chain Lightning every strike
• Lightning every 5 seconds
• Double Lightning (+5% chance)
• Chain Lightning when Blitz pop
• Hermes Attack Speed Boost
• King Ransom Duo Boon to boost Zeus Boons

[silent crow]

pretty Good

[tame spindle]

which staff

[silent crow]

doesnt matter reallu

[tame spindle]

actually does not matter

[magic moss]

its fine but zeus attack just seems strictly worse than other options if you are doing 2x attack, like poseidon attack or hera attack

actually nvm

[tame spindle]

nah every single strike is blitz

[magic moss]

the build is focused on blitz procs

realized that after i hit send

[silent crow]

i feel like blitz could be competitive if u have this much dmg

[hollow briar]

16F is chill, 32F might not be depending on how well your playstyle meshes with it

16 just has so many options

[tame spindle]

once uve got fury down and understand attack patterns and builds 32 fear is very comfortable

[magic moss]

there is so much you need to hit tho so maybe in a perfect god run yeah but its unrealistic

[tame spindle]

blitz attack on staff is just not good

[hollow stag]

How does Blitz proc work?

Let’s say on Medea.

1. Use Special
2. Blitz curse is applied after 40 damage
3. Attack does 80 damage
4. Special to activate Blitz damage

[tame spindle]

yeah and then u repeat and they get blitz damage every cycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZuBED3qM8g

[hollow stag]

And Blitz has a .2 second cooldown before it can be reapplied?

[hollow briar]

Yeah, it's really funny to me how relatively easily I can demolish 32F but the instant it reaches the 40F threshold it's so much harder

[tame spindle]

nah i'd win

tbh thats fair its just practice

im honestly really comfortable up to 42 fear on charon but thats because i have like 100 runs on that weapon

[tall notch]

@past salmon what's the best fourth god for triple earth meli skulls?

[hollow ether]

for thanatos axe - boon wise? i usually go with hera and demeter to try to go for born gain and the infusion

[white vessel]

blackened fleece would be really good for Moros right?

[tame spindle]

no

apparently the attacks arent counted as omegas so u do like way less damage than u'd expect

[white vessel]

thats silly

[spare kite]

It means you can use huntress for a +50% instead tho

[hollow stag]

And Aphrodite +Attack Power boon maybe

[wind kettle]

i tried a 45 fear with thanatos axe with blitz on attack

wasn't half bad actually

[tame spindle]

why

im actually super intrigued now

ur opponents always have blitz anyways so its still origination yeah?

[wind kettle]

well, I wanted the Zeus boon for shield and didn't get it on any reroll so I just took attack and got out of Oceanus

[versed heath]

Just realized you can use the Aromatic Phial on the upstairs route for a guaranteed heroic attack/special

[magic moss]

lmfao im actually kinda mad i love medea but struggled so much clearing 40 with it

and i just first try cleared 40F with mel skulls after not having touched mel skulls in over 100 hours

[hollow stag]

What is better early for Zeus

• Static Shock (Chain Lightning)

• Spirit Surge (Lightning every 5 sec)

[tired fulcrum]

Usually static unless it bricks your magic build

[magic moss]

if hes asking spirit surge im assuming its a manaless build in which case static 100%

[white vessel]

yipee i killed chronos for my firsttime

[tame spindle]

gg

[white vessel]

how much of the surface is there?

[tame spindle]

2 regions

[white vessel]

how does fear work

like it highlights a boss what that mean

[limpid coral]

isnt there an info panel that you can bring up on that same page

[hollow ether]

first 32f run

got to chronos

chronos is a beast with full fury

[steel sequoia]

you get used to it

unless you are like playing special scorch skulls or something

[dim kestrel]

Means you have to beat at least that boss to satisfy that Testament (and get the associated Nightmare)

[wind kettle]

bro this is the 4th run in a row I've got Selene first boon

5th now, am i cursed

[opaque cypress]

Is Hephaestus smithy sprint affected by increases in channeling speed to omega moves or bonuses to omega move damage?

[edgy anchor]

flick knives, melting dart, or sureshot flurry for my aspect of pan??

[civic ocean]

Nope!

[civic ocean]

Sureshot works pretty well with Pan if you are letting er rip from range

[hollow briar]

@bleak night, @past salmon, comparing the website along with some winscreens, I think this loosely fits the Aspects on high Fear (based on the 40+ Fear runs I've seen ) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/716711284862746644/1252712140276760766/image.png?ex=66733698&is=6671e518&hm=1acc1adab58b3e74f7e201507fad747afd19818c8eafce4c19d96ad37cbfd962&

Mel Axe is only below Charon because... I dunno lol, I guess they're actually about on the same tier based on what I'd seen, but I digress to Mynt

(Also, do I need a full recording to have my stuff on the site or hwhat)

[magic moss]

artemis over pan? momos and circe staff in S? Mel staff in A? Could I have some explanations as to why they are ranked this way? Genuinely curious

[civic ocean]

Should just be all 15 in the "doable" tier for 40

[bleak night]

is this old or new Momus? I don't think Momus should be that high. Though you could put like a Mel-Circe-Momus Staff thing that says (Attack Spam only) and put it on S+++ lol

[civic ocean]

Can we all just like sign a blood pact to not do tier lists until we get over 1k hours into high fear runs

[hollow briar]

Oh, for sure, this is just preliminary based on what I've seen

[wind kettle]

sure, let's also go to sleep

[civic ocean]

Did you block Hecate's polymorph yet

[wind kettle]

bro is seething

[civic ocean]

Bro is sheeping

[hollow briar]

No idea, though I'd be willing to say they're primarily centered on the old version

Circe being unironically higher is kinda bonkers to me tho lol

[bleak night]

the dude playing Circe could've done it on any other staff tbf, he only used attack hammers

[civic ocean]

Yeah we should have unupgraded staff in S tier

[magic moss]

i dont think any mana staff build is competitvely viable against attack staffs rn in high fears

[civic ocean]

Is there a weapon where the mana version is going to outcompete the 0 mana version on high fear? You would need a runner happy to do mid 40s no onion Born Gain starts right

[still girder]

mana builds will be bad on super high fear until the onion goes away

[dim kestrel]

Onion, Arrogance and Panic all discriminate against mana builds

sorry, Arrogance, not Foresaking

[still girder]

yeah, i knew watcha meant

[magic moss]

every blade aspect so some extent and charon

[hollow briar]

Panic being such a simple Vow and yet crippling for a few Aspects is kinda funny to me

[civic ocean]

I feel like there's a manaless blades run there that's good just nobody wants to do it

[magic moss]

charon has high enough base damage that once you get a gain boon you dont really need anything else

[civic ocean]

Charon I could see yeah

[magic moss]

probably, maybe some attack hammer aphro mel

[tired fulcrum]

Id definitely prefer mana charon over no mana than/mel in 45 and below

[dim kestrel]

It's especially brutal that Onion mostly negates a god keepsake. If you got your god force on the second boon reliably, it'd be a little easier to swallow

[civic ocean]

Does it not still offer you that god if you get onioned

[magic moss]

it does

[tired fulcrum]

Onion doesnt affect keepsake

[magic moss]

for mana > manaless aspects: artemis, pan, charon, every torch, persephone

[civic ocean]

Are they 1 whole fear better tho

[dim kestrel]

Doesn't it offer you the god in room 1 but then when you pick up the boon it turns into an onion? Does it also give you that god on the second boon?

like onion doesn't just replace the first boon room with an onion room, it pretends to show you a boon and then Lucy footballs it away

[civic ocean]

As Unananas said, keepsakes aren't affected by Bitterness

[hollow briar]

Persephone isn't really a fair comparison since it's quite literally entirely reliant on two types of Magick usage to reach its potential

[magic moss]

for eos, charon, and moros all they really need is a single gain boon and they can get going so for those prob

[hollow briar]

It's doable manaless, but why would you not run Mel Skull then

[dim kestrel]

that doesn't exactly address my question. Does it give you that god twice in a row when you have onion?

like where the first one is fake because it becomes an onion

[hollow briar]

It tends to for me, but I don't know if it's because of the keepsake or the coding

[limpid coral]

what are the different types of mana usage

[tired fulcrum]

Only taking a boon from a god as a room reward results in losing the keepsake charge

[hollow briar]

Cast 'n Spesh, you gotta use both to maximize its damage

Running it without using Magick is shooting yourself in the knees twice

[limpid coral]

and why does that matter?

[civic ocean]

Maybe at 40+ that's true but it's definitely not at 32, special is basically an optional button there

[tired fulcrum]

Persephone needs mana but it doesnt need a lot

[civic ocean]

Storm Ring is 15 mana right

[hollow briar]

Well yeah, but that's why I specified 40+

[limpid coral]

o so you're saying the difference between manaful and manaless persephone is bigger than other aspects

[civic ocean]

I don't think I would use persephone special very much even 40+

[dim kestrel]

hm, ok. So does that mean if you get a door with your god and don't take it, it will show up again the next time there's a god door?

[tired fulcrum]

At 40 mana builds are fine as long as theyre safe like charon and persephone

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah

[hollow briar]

I mean, you can check my wins to see the damage if you'd like. First try on 40F and second on 45F and Spesh DMG was fairly close to Cast despite building more into the former

[hollow briar]

Yeh, essentially. It just doesn't make sense why you would run manaless Persephone over just... Mel Skull lol

Not to say Magickless Persephone is necessarily unviable in a vacuum, but there's literally no reason to run it

[dim kestrel]

manaless Persephone is literally aspectless skull, yeah

[tired fulcrum]

It buffs possessed array ig

[civic ocean]

I believe I have something like an 11 run winstreak on Persephone at 32+? And I click the special maybe 4 times per run atm

More than one way to skin a cat, as they say

[hollow briar]

I suppose, yeah. It's just the easiest way for me to quickly clear chambers since multiple Storm Ring Casts tends to be comparatively rather slow at grouped clears when I can just Spesh and eliminate the room

[tired fulcrum]

Like you can just storm ring then omega special while storm ring is going off

[civic ocean]

I just go for like huntress attacks tbh that usually does it

some crazy erebus rooms I special for but don't usually take a boon for it unless I get offered epic scorch

[tired fulcrum]

scorch persephone special is garbage though

[hollow briar]

Flat DMG on Persephone Spesh sounds kinda wonky imo, but if it works for ya, then I guess it works

Scorch doesn't get buffed by the DMG increase, does it

[tired fulcrum]

Doubt it

[civic ocean]

Personally I find being able to stack like 1-2k damage on p2 Chronos super useful

while he does the instakill

[tired fulcrum]

You could also just bring a % and do that instantly

[hollow briar]

You could also just do that damage with your Spesh instantly instead of over time with like, Demeter. Still gets your Origination on and Freezes and deals ludicrous DMG

[civic ocean]

What % modifier do you need to add 180 flat to your omega special

[hollow briar]

Not that high since it's already nuts thanks to the 30% addition from the Aspect

[magic moss]

im going to murder nem

[tired fulcrum]

I rather do triple earth that bother with getting 6 boons to make air fryer work

[civic ocean]

shocker

[tired fulcrum]

I forget how much the base damage the omega special is

[hollow briar]

One sec

[tired fulcrum]

But an aphro special prob adds that much

[hollow briar]

150% extra at unPommed + Rare

[civic ocean]

what is the base damage per omega special wave

[tired fulcrum]

Whats the base on the omega special tho

[hollow briar]

Opening it up now

130

[tired fulcrum]

Also isnt hestia special like 25 or something at epic

Like you need a ton of poms to get 40 from each wave

[civic ocean]

what are we comparing then, Epic Aphrodite vs Epic Scorch?

[tired fulcrum]

On persephone? So base 100 then?

[hollow briar]

Yep

[tired fulcrum]

Epic aphrodite plus a pom is 250% innit

[magic moss]

moon water doesnt work in scars 3 yeah?

[hollow briar]

Something along those lines, yeah. Maybe 225, hard to say

[tired fulcrum]

So thats +250 damage vs whatever air fryer does with 10x the required investment

[spare kite]

Yeah
+25% first pom is attack

[civic ocean]

10x the required investment is so funny to me man

Oh no, I have to take Storm Ring, Lightning Lance, Silver Streak, Static Shock, Passion Dash, etc woe is me

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah so it only happens once youre in fields

Meanwhile you can just pick up a random decent % special in erebus and immediately kill things

[hollow briar]

Yeah, but like, why lock yourself in like that when you only need Storm Ring and a middling-Rarity Spesh to do better DMG

[tired fulcrum]

Also like earth boons funnier

[magic moss]

i need someone to confirm or deny this statement please

cuz im blanking rn

[hollow briar]

It's okay to like a build and also admit it's not as viable for most runs. I do that for a couple of Aspects lmao

[hollow briar]

Surely not, but I haven't picked it up on principle so I wouldn't be able to say for certain

[magic moss]

i dont take it either and thats why im asking xdd

[hollow briar]

Go for it, then. Confirm your suspicions

[knotty fulcrum]

I don't think it does work. 99% sure it is affected by level 2 scars so it shouldn't work at all on max scars

[civic ocean]

I think it's weird to say something isn't viable when I keep winning on it

[magic moss]

im in a 40F pan poseidon run rn and its a decently high roll run so dont want to throw it

[civic ocean]

And just comparing the aph special side by side with the hestia special is like entirely missing the point of builds and how they work

[steel sequoia]

[hollow briar]

That's not what I said, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't frame it as such. I said not as viable; and I'm still just speculating on it based off of what I'm hearing and the investments required

[dim kestrel]

wait, the aspect giving +30% doesn't affect how much other % boosts are worth, does it? Since % damage increases are additive when they're specific to a source...

[civic ocean]

what does not "as" viable mean

[dim kestrel]

or is aspect +% different?

[hollow briar]

Another build does what it's able to do either better or more consistently

[civic ocean]

but if that were true wouldn't we see more consistent results?

[hollow briar]

I dunno, I haven't done a 45F run with Hestia Spesh

[vale mesa]

could you have two infusions at the same time?

[hollow briar]

Yep. They don't lock each other out

[dim kestrel]

you can have as many infusion boons as you get, yeah, just have to fulfill the reqs for them to do something

[vale mesa]

got it. thanks

[civic ocean]

So you don't actually know if something is more or less viable (which is weird to say in the first place I think? Viable is not really something you can be more or less of, you either are or you aren't) You're just not taking my word for it because you don't consider 32 to be high fear?

[tired fulcrum]

You can win with whatever special at 32

[dim kestrel]

assuming you're only using it occasionally (like, when it's charged), wouldn't Heph be even better? It's a flat 400

[tired fulcrum]

Glory charges in like one cast

Also the full special lasts really long

[dim kestrel]

oh true you're getting the damage a bunch of times per use

don't mind me

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think all 3 of aph zeus hest are quite good on it

lots of waves so lots of stacks vs bosses

[hollow briar]

Well obviously I don't know for sure; the reason we started discussing this in the first place was because I thought it was an odd choice to take it since I assume(d) off the rip that it would be more difficult to make it work compared to just slapping on a % increase Spesh. As for the second bit, I think it's relatively high Fear, but my personal experience is that I can clear 32F pretty consistently, but 40F+ starts to drain me since it forces a lot of the Vows that I don't want to take, so I do think 32 is "high" Fear, but I suppose I should've specified 40+ since, as Ananas said, you can get away with much more at 32 comparatively

[civic ocean]

What would be an appropriately convincing fear to win at with scorch, then

[limpid coral]

kinda hard to specifically compare that sort of thing right, execution plays a huge part so if the damage output is there then its just did you click good and like, how do you determine whether its easy or hard to click good with a build

[civic ocean]

This is my default position, to be clear

[tired fulcrum]

Being able to win with something doesnt mean its any good

[limpid coral]

whether a run wins at 4x is like how many times did you get crit

(and did you click good enough to beat the timer)

[civic ocean]

???

So what makes a build good then

[tired fulcrum]

Being better than other options

[limpid coral]

probably like, being able to click less good and still win

old momus was good because there was a ton of room for player error all you have to do is click m2, right

but other aspects require a lot better execution along with choosing perks

[civic ocean]

What is "better"

Like the way scorch functions allows you to play a much more reactive and defensive game because of how it deals damage while you're not attacking, and how the boon tree helps you get ranged casts way more consistently, etc.

There are so many more factors than "does this do more damage than this"

[hollow briar]

I'm having a hard time getting a solid answer to this because it's gonna be more convincing based on how many attempts it takes as well. Again, I first-tried 40F with Hera Spesh and second-tried 45F with an Aphro Spesh that I didn't even get until right before Cerby. I'm not bragging, it's literally just the Aspect carrying me. That said, if it takes like, a dozen tries to get exactly what you need for the build to work, then by default I'm gonna think it's not as dependable as the one that I anecdotally can confirm works just fine off the rip, if that makes sense

[tired fulcrum]

Winning more consistently, being faster, requiring less skill, whatever

[civic ocean]

Why would something working once convince you it's consistent?

[hollow briar]

I'll blitz through another run rq, then, I guess

[civic ocean]

Do like 20, no?

[hollow briar]

If you'll do the same with your build, then sure

[bronze grove]

Hello, not quite sure where to post this query so hope it's not too odd posting it over here. There's this specific build I had on a run recently with the Momus aspect on the staff. Got dual moonshot as well as Apollo's legendary, both of which double the omega special. The thing is, I got 4 omega specials whenever I cast them, but the omega special turrets from Momus' aspect only fired two specials each time even after I got the legendary. Is that like, supposed to happen? Does Momus straight up not work with Apollo's legendary or is it only because Dual Moonshot messes up things

[magic moss]

momus omega strikes only applies boons for the first one, everything afterwards isnt affected by whatever boons you have

in this case, you fired 4 because of the hammer and apollo legendary, everything after was just because of the hammer

[civic ocean]

I'm finishing my volume challenge this month but then I will take scorch as high as I can with a couple weapons, sure, for my own enjoyment and improvement, sure.

But surely you have to get a bigger sample size than 1 or 2 runs to be like "this is the answer"

[bronze grove]

ohhh I see. I am assuming the damage% buffs from aphro/hera/apollo/demeter stay nevertheless

[civic ocean]

My position, to be clear, is not "my answer is better than yours." it's "we really don't know, things are way less clear than people make them out to be, and we should encourage build variety and experimentation way more than telling people what works or doesn't with any sort of authority"

[limpid coral]

"just play better and everything can work"

[tired fulcrum]

I mean depends, if you get a run with a low req build that is fast and you had a lot of room for error and you didnt get particularly great rng you can conclude its consistent

[civic ocean]

Yeah I got selene started and 10 rolled by zeus multiple times in those 11, sometimes I didn't even get Air Quality and still won fairly easily?

Like I got told a month ago "you won't be able to consistently win with it at 32" and now that I do it's "anything can win at 32" which like...I would contest that 11 straight 32F wins is actually not that easy to do?

[tired fulcrum]

Imo persphone doesnt need very much to win at 32

Consistently winning at 32 is more of a skill thing

[civic ocean]

Aight well we'll see how July goes I guess

[hollow stag]

What could possibly be the best start for Moros Torch?

1. Heph Mint Condition
2. Chaos Channel Speed
3. Hera Born Gain
4. Duo Spiteful Strength
5. Hammer Mega Spark
6. Aphro Secret Crush

[tired fulcrum]

Born gain ig all you need is huntress to melt erebus

[spare kite]

Which one is mega spark

[limpid coral]

its like +% and fly farther

[hollow stag]

Attacks 20% faster, 30% more damage

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah born gain is necesary. at least on higher fear

[spare kite]

Ain't faster atks the sustained one?

[paper wave]

what fear do yall recomend for 32?

the jump from 16 to 32 slapped me hard

[limpid coral]

are you already playing with +speed

[paper wave]

i was playing with one level of it but i can get used to two with some practice

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah for 32 you should run max vow of fury

[limpid coral]

once you get used to +speed its a relatively free 6 points compared to like the garbage suffering blood panic

[knotty fulcrum]

but it depends on what aspect you are planing to play for the rest

[dim kestrel]

I would say a build is better for a given fear level if it can win with a lower skill level at that fear

[civic ocean]

How do you measure skill though

[dim kestrel]

like if you are very skilled you can take a worse build and still win with it because you're compensating for the build with like, better pathing etc

[dim kestrel]

I mean I don't think we have an objective way really but you can't deny that skill level varies between players (and within players over time), and that this can compensate for a build being less effective, right

[civic ocean]

I feel like we'd just keep going in circles trying to define who is more skilled than who and what skills fit which builds better, and I don't think it's like useful to do that.

That's why I like the term "viable" to begin with, and don't like "more viable" because to me if something is "viable", it's "someone has made this work", and that can encourage other people to make it work. It gives people looking for inspiration something to build towards.

We are all wrong here all the time about this game all the time.

[dim kestrel]

but it would presumably have to do with things like reaction time, pathing, and tactics (the last of course being hard to define in itself)

I think "viable" is the wrong term here, and "more viable" is mixing two concepts

[limpid coral]

put a misplay counter on screen and get judged by some futuristic algorithm

see how high the number can get without dying

[dim kestrel]

like, I think calling something viable because someone has won with it is too weak a criterion for the term to really say anything

unless you're talking about super high fear I guess

[bleak night]

What're you guys talking about?

[dim kestrel]

kinda a meta conversation at this point I think

[hollow briar]

Y'know, I apologize. I wasn't trying to say it was an objectively bad idea, just that, to me, it seemed like too large on an investment for too low of a reward, and I think that didn't come across as well as I meant it to, so I'm sorry for that. I'll keep on doing runs to see how it goes

[dim kestrel]

but stemmed from a statement that Scorch special was "less viable" than other options (like Aphro) on Persephone, and a counterstatement from East that it was viable because they'd won with it

[civic ocean]

Why we hate joycons

[bleak night]

Getting bullied already?

[knotty fulcrum]

tbh I think that is like the optimal setup

[civic ocean]

true getting bullied early is a good setup

[knotty fulcrum]

the main reason I'm not playing controller is not havine a mouse. second being I don't have one

[civic ocean]

All good I know I have tone issues too it's all good

[knotty fulcrum]

but what build were you guys talking about? air fryer vs aphro special on persephone?

[dim kestrel]

what? I can't imagine real or perceived tone to be something that could cause friction on the internet

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1252732837220847756/AINT_NO_WAY.mp4?ex=667349df&is=6671f85f&hm=3c3584ec220e9e5200356b73c676294a839e773615f1db65fee92063268568bb& ARE YOU KIDDING ME

[dim kestrel]

72!

[knotty fulcrum]

I thought it was 88. you're not running max blood?

[limpid coral]

yippee

[bleak night]

Unlucky

[magic moss]

I HATE SPINDLES SO MUCH

[magic moss]

its a 40F run so no

[civic ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/88ragz-tip-gif-24581356

[knotty fulcrum]

to me it's just automaticly activated past 32f

[magic moss]

i dont find enjoyment doing >40F, if anything 40F is like the border of what i find fun and just pure grindy hell

[knotty fulcrum]

also never thought about running poseidon on staff

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah same

[dim kestrel]

staff has good hammers for increasing the number of damage procs per second

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah but it's like 30+ base damage I think. so maybe aprho is better or hera for the hitch

but yeah poseidon might be a good idea. unless you get the +30 power hammer ig

[dim kestrel]

dunno how it ends up mathing out vs other options, but I can see it, at least for manaless if you're getting the right hammers and getting good rarity on the splash

[magic moss]

it helps clear erebus so much more than hitch with its aoe without having to rely solely on hammer rng

[limpid coral]

common is like 20 so its like +80% damage plus aoe and knockback

so like aphro but better

[knotty fulcrum]

ok yeah makes sense might try a run with it

[dim kestrel]

20 is 67% of 30, not 80%... what am I missing?

[knotty fulcrum]

tho I prefer getting zeus for static shock and then 3 earth gods. for high fear that is

[limpid coral]

it goes 20 25 30 no?

or am i tripping

[dim kestrel]

by rarity?

[knotty fulcrum]

that sounds right

[limpid coral]

like for the basic attack

[magic moss]

poseidon attack is 30 on rare

[plain fossil]

Poseidon attack is 15 20 25 by rarity

[edgy anchor]

seeing heracles in my run makes me want to just alt f4

[plain fossil]

Which is what u care about on staff attack, 20 25 30 is special y'all used to momus and pan lul

[knotty fulcrum]

I think it's 20. at least in your video

[knotty fulcrum]

stops timer tho. so you can just focus on dodging

[dim kestrel]

yeah, 20 on rare with no poms. Which is 67%. Aphro is 100% on rare.

[plain fossil]

The staff attack sequence itself is 20 25 30 isnt it

[limpid coral]

wait so is the staff basic attack 30 or 25 average

[edgy anchor]

oh okay that makes it a bit better, stressin me out because his rooms take forever and he doesnt even clear the remnants after he kills the enemy

[limpid coral]

ok im not tripping its 25

[plain fossil]

And u spend more time doing 20 and 25 bc the last hit is bit gimp

[limpid coral]

the dash attack is 30 tho (?)

[dim kestrel]

25 average because it's 20, 25, 30 in sequence?

[knotty fulcrum]

oh yeah that's right huntress makes it 30+

[magic moss]

another really good thing about poseidon on staff is that you can sub hera out for like zeus static for example since you dont technically need hera

[dim kestrel]

but Aphro is still based on the base damage, no?

since Huntress is a % boost?

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah so aphro might be worse

[plain fossil]

Im a fan of poseidon when the numbers are at all close fwiw because its got good aoe and deals with blue shields better

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah but then it's harder to get earth boons

but yeah poseidon does sound good now that I think about it

[limpid coral]

oh shoot you're right, poseidon isnt an earth god so its automatically worse

[dim kestrel]

Aphro has Secret Crush I guess, which boost her value a bit, but

[plain fossil]

For me its poseidon in this situation over hera with aph miles behind, if it was a special boon it might be different because aph special scales really well

[magic moss]

sorry yeah its 20 on poseidon attack rare

[dim kestrel]

there's also no way to get a status on Aphro attack, right, whereas Pos can get Slip

[magic moss]

i got mixed up cuz 30 is poseidon special rare and im currently switching between staff and pan

[knotty fulcrum]

damn you're running pan on 40? what god do you start with

[forest hinge]

i was reading thru the logs around here, im sorta inferring about the earth gods thing, is it to try and get the Demeter boon that caps dmg taken?

[plain fossil]

This is true but aph does have very easy status activation for 1 boon cost which is similar to slip

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah. +dem and heph are really good defensive gods and hitch is good for crowd control

[magic moss]

poseidon

into pray for hera

[knotty fulcrum]

and do you spam special or just use attacks in the begging

[plain fossil]

Theres a couple reasons, coarse grit is one, martial art is another, but the big reason is that demeter and heph are usually the best two support gods anyway and then hera is solid if ur putting hitch on a core ability

[magic moss]

special spam and use attacks to clean up

[forest hinge]

does the dmg-cap negate the effects of the Blood and Suffering vows? Or does the capped dmg just get taken into account for the vows' dmg increases?

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1252737071056031774/image.png?ex=66734dd0&is=6671fc50&hm=b1d810241668a70dc02126211c4141a96483cb783c2c4012de9de293da6f53a1& yeah like the only thing persephone needs to win at 32 is zeus cast and a gain

[plain fossil]

Negate is a strong word, but yes your damage instances are capped at 15

[tired fulcrum]

also I shouldve brought huntress cause boonless attack kinda suck

[plain fossil]

I dont play persephone so my conclusion from this screenshot is nerf dark side

[knotty fulcrum]

I tried a run earlier and got a gain in the fiels :(((. didn't want to take ionic gain maybe that was the problem

[magic moss]

I wrote this primarily to explain why triple earth is so good on charon, but its also a good summary of why triple earth is just the best build in the game rn

Hera - Born Gain is a no brainer, you get so much effective mana and with Charon's high base damage on omega special you can typically clear rooms and guardians without running out of mana, even with a common no pomed born gain and arrogance. Hera's special is also great since the hitch chains enemies who havent died to the first special and makes them easier to clean up with normal attacks or another special. It is also an insane Siren's clear because every siren, assuming they are grouped, gets hit with the aoe of omega special, omega cast, and 60% bonus from hitch, essentially dealing 1.5x damage. If you aren't running Vow of Arrogance, her Proper Upbringing and Uncommon Grace (which is an Earth Boon so even better) gives a bonus 15% extra damage, and this can still work even with Arrogance as long as you have enough mana or not that many boons.

Demeter - The cast is incredible for Charon since it freezes everyone within the radius, giving you extra safety when placing a cast down for an omega special. This along with Hera's special can either one shot an enemy, or if they live apply origination for additional damage for future strikes. Also has incredible supportive boons that make you safer when cycling between cast and omega specials

Heph - TRUSTY SHIELD BABY. It gives you a one shot protection and a refillable shield every room, so it gives an insane level of protection but also enables White Antler to be a lot safer as you are not playing at <30 HP with the given armor. In addition, martial (Heph earth infusion) gives % damage increases, which is incredible on axe due to its high base damage. Like demeter, Heph also gives many good supportive boons.

[forest hinge]

yeah mb, negate is strong since you have to actually get Coarse Grit in the first place.

[tired fulcrum]

ngl I only got born gain in fields, chaos cost reduc and mana pots was enough for everything lol

[knotty fulcrum]

mana pots?

[tired fulcrum]

Max mana

[knotty fulcrum]

oh ok

yeah the problem with the run was that I lost all dds in schylla fight cause no mana and skilll issue

[dim kestrel]

if you happened to be offered Rapid Thrasher (+30% attack speed) and Wicked Thrasher (+30 power), then Rare Pos attack with Huntress and Rapid is (25*1.5+20)\*1.43 = 82.22 per base attack interval, whereas Rare Aphro attack with Huntress and Wicked is (25+30)\*(1 + 0.50 + 1.00) = 137.5

[forest hinge]

honestly I underrated Hera for a long time because I sorta never take Hitch into account other than being another status for Origination, but then I tried Born Gain and it felt like waking up for the first time LOL

[plain fossil]

I think if ur gonna copypaste that a lot then not at least mentioning mint condition is prolly something u want to fix. Imo its a top 10 boon and the last time i talked to foolish and mynt about it they were both really clear that they thought top 10 is a serious underrate and its better than trusty shield

[knotty fulcrum]

hitch is better when you have a lot of enemies. so on low fear maybe it's not that good

[forest hinge]

wouldn't Born Gain be like kinda essential at 32F for Persephone?

[tired fulcrum]

Not really

Persephone is very mana efficient

[knotty fulcrum]

you can get through erebus if you don't run panic without ever running out of mana. well on hecate you will maybe but yeah

[plain fossil]

It spends a lot of time not actually pressing buttons and spending 15 mana every 3 seconds

[forest hinge]

I've been using the Commotion vow with the tier3 timer vow so maybe i should try hitch

[magic moss]

added

[forest hinge]

are people running The Unseen card on Persephone?

[surreal hazel]

So it occurs to me that hestia's boon that adds a fireball to omega specials combos real nicely with thunder flourish

[knotty fulcrum]

better than trusty shield sounds a bit crazy too me. in the begging at least

[tall notch]

You can clear entire elite fights without dodging a thing with Mynt condition

[knotty fulcrum]

true. but elites fight are easier than normal rooms (maybe) depends on the weapon

[plain fossil]

Its not my opinion - i prefer trusty shield by some margin - but the basic argument is that it lets u play much more aggressively and beat timer

[knotty fulcrum]

yeah I agree it's close

[forest hinge]

I'm pretty iffy on Heph as a god in general(Blast feels hit or miss) but Mint Condition is like too good, u just get to play full aggro no dodging on anything that isnt a boss

[plain fossil]

I can see it on mana builds since trusty shield is a mana strain

[tall notch]

Heph is something you click for support and don't touch the core boons of

[plain fossil]

But really i want both and if forsaking is being a jerk about it i'll reroll till i get only 1

[limpid coral]

the room is cleared faster and after the timer runs out a lot of stuff is dead so its easier to avoid getting crit

[forest hinge]

Yeah 30 Mana for 10 shield feels like hefty trade unless you've been prio-ing Mana for a Moros or Charon build or smth

[limpid coral]

the amount of shield doesn't exactly matter cause you get crit for all of it anyway

[plain fossil]

Its really 30 mana to delete vow of suffering

[forest hinge]

That's fair, I thought I was just missing smth since I never take Blast effects or stuff like that

[plain fossil]

I do angle for 20 armour due to coarse grit

[knotty fulcrum]

on moros it's a run ender sometimes yeah

[plain fossil]

But its not a high priority

[limpid coral]

but do you want to give up 20 max mana and (sometimes) the rarify for it

[forest hinge]

lol Moros builds feel so delicate, like u either get Born Gain, or u look for mana pots

[limpid coral]

well ok its just 10 cause either its common and u click or its rare/epic and u rarify and click ig

[knotty fulcrum]

nah you just start with born gain or restart

[plain fossil]

If its a rare trusty shield i'll pom it if i can, thats the extent of the effort

[limpid coral]

rare coarse grit

[plain fossil]

Ye typo

[limpid coral]

has anyone here gotten bridal glow or rare crop to hit coarse grit lol

[plain fossil]

Na they cant hit infusions

[forest hinge]

thats what I've been angling towards lately, been starting w/Hera's fan for Born Gain cause the base dmg on Moros feels like more than enough to clear Erebus without an attack boon

[limpid coral]

they can, at least before this current patch

is there a mod to console command stuff out?

[knotty fulcrum]

I'm not sure any other start is viable. plus you can aim for spiteful strength since moros does a lot of damage on its own

[limpid coral]

i distinctly remember bridal glow on martial art saying 25% per earth, lol

[plain fossil]

Sounds like a f10, its never happened to me and rare crop has cut short rather than hit infusions in one run in particular

[limpid coral]

dang seems like they patched it out or something

scaling coarse grit sounds silly tho, take 5 damage per hit or something

[forest hinge]

wait do infusion boons have different rarities?

[tired fulcrum]

No

[limpid coral]

seems not

[forest hinge]

Ok, I thought I just wasn't paying attention or smth lol

[limpid coral]

shadowpatched 😔

[forest hinge]

actually??

[civic ocean]

air quality is the only one that requires 2 of an element to be offered to you, but all infusions have common rarity otherwise IIRC

[knotty fulcrum]

I don't think common just no rarity. cause for example that boon from hera that gives damage if you don't have common boons shouldn't count them

[limpid coral]

before patch 2 i got bridal glow to hit an infusion but supposedly rare crop no longer can hit infusions

[forest hinge]

I'm p sure all Infusion boons are just "Infusion Rarity"

[civic ocean]

they are specifically common in the sense that they can appear when afflicted with the chaos common only curse

[tired fulcrum]

According to funny miners theyre common in the code

[forest hinge]

that was prob a bug maybe? or just an otherwise unintentional interaction?

[limpid coral]

if you could access a debug mode in game then this would be so easy to test but maaaaan no such luck

[tired fulcrum]

Which maybe makes them harder to appear when you have rarity increases but idk

[plain fossil]

In terms of rarity they get ignored by hera infusion, arrogance, and chaos curse so idk if they really have an internal rarity

[civic ocean]

I believe this is the case yes

[limpid coral]

yeah it seems like that bridal glow thing was a bug

[civic ocean]

Anecdotally I have a much harder time getting Air Quality from minibosses for instance

[plain fossil]

Oh ok so theyre "common" but hera infusion ignores them

[forest hinge]

Ok kinda off topic, but does anyone here like Bridal Glow, cause that boon feels like a trap unless u get it at like Rare+ in Tartarus

[limpid coral]

click it in tartarus, ignore it elsewhere ig

[plain fossil]

Its good in tartarus

[tired fulcrum]

Its fine in fields

[forest hinge]

ok thats what i thot

[plain fossil]

Ive clicked it off cerb shop as well

[limpid coral]

wait, if you sacrifice the selected boon, does it still downgrade?

[plain fossil]

I dont hate it late but it is really narrow

[forest hinge]

cerb shop?

[plain fossil]

Cerb shop

The shop before cerb

[forest hinge]

oh. hehe

[plain fossil]

Anyway at that point ur usually on ur like 3rd hera boon and all the good stuff is taken/gone, u have it up against like nasty comeback and the omega buff that never triggers and ur like hey might as well

[forest hinge]

I've never gotten Brave Face before(Leg. Hera boon) but it sounds really good esp. on mana-strong builds. Even better if u managed to pair it with Coarse Grit

[spare kite]

They don't really interact

[magic moss]

rn as i play more and more i actually prefer toula over frinos

[forest hinge]

the extra life really helps on chronos

[magic moss]

not even that, its just that the extra hp doesnt really help much even after a dd since you just get one shot regardless

[forest hinge]

although I've made the mistake of upgrading Toula's HP restore on her DD, which messes with things like Huntress/Strength/Antler builds >:(

[steel sequoia]

the omega buff actually helpfull for cast builds

its not useless, not reliable

[plain fossil]

Uh it can be sometimes but u need to not be running born gain so its very narrow

[forest hinge]

Keen Intuition? The one that requires full mana for bonus omega dmg?

[plain fossil]

Yarp

[forest hinge]

i think its good*, just low uptime on the boon 🤷

[plain fossil]

Well i figure if it gives less than say 10-15% additive damage to main skill its probably not good, thats my benchmark

So for that u would need say 30% uptime, ie with born gain u need less than 4 casts before it resets

Which is probably not where u want to be with born gain

U can use another mana boon instead, but then u clicked hera and didnt click born gain so u better have a really good reason why

This does happen more than 0% of the time, and those circumstances are when ive clicked keen intuition, its just not common at all

And its much much much more likely to be a brick in a random run which was the original context

[silent crow]

apparently chaos' does

[hollow briar]

Not really

[magic moss]

chaos has an infusion boon?

[spare kite]

+% Ω dmg per aether element

[hollow briar]

Just lost a 48F run on the last room of Tart with an unbuffed Hestia Spesh and literally no Regen Boon aside from the 8-Magick-per-second Chaos Boon

Lvl 2 Storm Ring, no Trusty Shield, no T2 Boons, just... Persephone vs almost every Vow lol

[steel sequoia]

aint that like the same as tall order?

[spare kite]

Tall order is +20% global when you have 2 of every element except aether

Chaos's infusion is +30%-39% to omegas per aether (and you can get it multiple times)

[steel sequoia]

its better i know, but not easy to make everytime

i regularly gets tall order with narcisus drop buff per element

[past bough]

cuh

luh

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1252754996123140227/nice_hitbox_bro.mp4?ex=66735e82&is=66720d02&hm=66d7a3e16491cd221998a484bf16f1d25b87e86b6b5c30c9b7d0dfafcee075cc&
sigh

[plain fossil]

Look on the bright side coulda been 112! with more fear

[magic moss]

still lost a dd

i am getting more and more frustrated with staff

[hollow briar]

Yeah, it extends way farther than it looks cuz of the shocking point that comes out

[plain fossil]

Im seeing if i can record a 40 mana momus in the next couple days

I enjoy mana staff a lot more than zero mana staff

[magic moss]

yeah at this point im just trying out different mana momus builds

[tame spindle]

go back to the 50 fear momus runs pre patch where runners were complaining that their fingers hurt too much from spamming

[magic moss]

running hera attack focus first

[plain fossil]

Im currently a fan of first room born gain followed by staying somewhat open until first hammer

[tame spindle]

first room born gain 🥰🥰🥰

[plain fossil]

I dont mind attack momus but i do think its pretty dependent on double attack hammer

On the bright side u get to click + ignore scars 3

[silent crow]

how

[plain fossil]

Vampiric cataclysm hammer ignores vow of scars

[silent crow]

oh wtf

[plain fossil]

Its pretty fun gaining 150 hp in fish rooms

[limpid coral]

don't take 7 min timer, farm hp from revs

[weak cosmos]

pro tip take frog not cat

[plain fossil]

Im a frog enjoyer but only to cover my own incompetence at dodging sheep balls

If i was good enough to dodge sheep ball every time id probably take toula

[inland rock]

what cast boon is good for aspect of charon?

[plain fossil]

I dont think any are actively bad except poseidon

U will get a wide variety of opinions on this but my current go-to is arctic ring

[inland rock]

im using storm ring rn, but honestly im just worried i missed something and it doesnt make my omega cast explode

[tame spindle]

u want hera generally

[magic moss]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[tired fulcrum]

If you manually channel an omega cast it wont be exploded by charon special, the only synergy zeus cast has with charon is increased duration for local climate memes

Zeus cast doesnt do anything if you play charon normally because it does like exactly one tick of damage on omega explosion

[inland rock]

i mean because i chose storm ring, does the cast no longer explode even with charon?

[tired fulcrum]

No, its due to channeling the omega cast manually instead of just plopping the reg cast down

[tame spindle]

it does explode

[tired fulcrum]

Charon only explodes the cast if you tap cast, not if you hold it to charge omega

[tame spindle]

but u dont take advantage of storm ring

[inland rock]

ah

[inland rock]

on that note is poseidon or aphrodite better on aspect of pan special (or perhaps another god i am wrong most of the time)

[tame spindle]

u want poseidon

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1252770195005767743/image.png?ex=66736ca9&is=66721b29&hm=4b9cd9e22339a308d6b0d9321a5dc8818670972b9c966560996455051c062bf9& lol

also I like how chrono's scythe throw is supposed to be his long range move but it has infinite tracking at close range compared to his sweep

[plain fossil]

Charon is good hey

[craggy ore]

Uhhh how am I still alive when the timer goes over 0 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/839733316089413632/1252775723379200121/Screenshot_1529.png?ex=667371cf&is=6672204f&hm=3fade1db50d708768d6b0c4157135c491cb6a0b8d29134f1348a7622cdeb1c62&

[spare kite]

It has never been instant death
Is 5 dmg/s

[craggy ore]

oh i never knew that

[bleak night]

deserved for playing slightly carelessly

[magic moss]

real

[gritty heath]

i just processed why controller is recommended for this game

vow of revenants and only being able to dash in 8 directions got me there

[steel sequoia]

revenants and rebuke are pain

[tame spindle]

yeah the 360 degree movement is soo great

[delicate python]

What are your guys opinion on heat/fear system maxing
Like, should it be such a high challenge, that only a couple of people been able to reach full heat AND fear to this day for both games
Or should it be something that , at most, only requires a player to be great at the game, not god level
I'm leaning more on the latter

[past pewter]

Former for sure

[tame spindle]

i mean the point of a challenge is that it is difficult

[silent crow]

game isnt gonna be designed around it anyway

[tame spindle]

high heat exists but ur not required to push all the way into the 40s and 50s and 90% of players arent gonna be going for that

[silent crow]

max fear will always be terrible bc its supposed to be customizeable

[tame spindle]

for the players who don't want to push themselves they can sit with like 16 or 32 fear and then stop there

[silent crow]

the best analogy i can think of is the korok seeds

theres supposed to be enough for any player to get normally but trying to do all of them is hell

[past salmon]

This list is pretty cooked I'm ngl
Your also basing Momus off it's leaderboard results which are entirely old Momus so there is that aswell

[tame spindle]

me personally id put mel staff at -----F

Z tier

[tired fulcrum]

Its going to be boring for higher level players if you make high fear easy, theres a reason bounties and trophies stop at 24/32

[past salmon]

The former lol. Game ready has its challenge for average person set in 32H/F. Heat/Fear isn't meant to be taken all the way to max. Max heat wasn't intended to be beatable. Its just a customisable difficulty slider.

A lot of people really like the challenge, I don't know why we would take that away for virtually no reason?

[past pewter]

Also first 64 was such a massive moment I don’t want it any other way

[past salmon]

Like the genuine only reason I can think of to lower the difficulty of max fear/heat is so that the average player can... What? Feel better about themselves?

32F is the target set for the average player
It's fine

[tired fulcrum]

Idk about average

[tame spindle]

@past salmon what gods would u consider for core boons on moros?

[past pewter]

Target for the truly average player is to beat chronos

[tired fulcrum]

32 is more like max for completitionist sake

[past salmon]

Ok well fine 32 is for the above average player

[past salmon]

Idek tbh I'm not really a Moros expert.
I like Aphro/Hera/Apollo? On attack
Zeus/Hera/Dem on special is good.

[tame spindle]

ah alright makes sense

i lost 10 runs in a row to erebus at 40 so now im at 35 </3 got humbled so hard

[faint spear]

Also for Moros consideration, having the Hestia/Poseidon duo can stack up for nice damage if you have Poseidon on one & Hestia on the other

[past salmon]

This will just be less damage than other options

[tired fulcrum]

Steam dps is inconsequential

[past salmon]

Hestia and Poseidon are flat damage numbers with hestias being bad flat damage numbers and Moros very much so likes percent damage numbers

[tired fulcrum]

Also most of it tine all it does is result in you disabling origination

[faint spear]

Fair.

[tired fulcrum]

Moros explosions do like 100s of damage so you really want %

[low bear]

was it dumb to get Blitz on Moros attack

[tame spindle]

ive tried blitz on moros special and it was amazing

[low bear]

yeah special it's prolly good, I put it on attack though

[tame spindle]

attack im not sure but id assume its like basically the same thing idk i dont pay attention to the game when im playing

[past salmon]

it is what it is

[tame spindle]

mint condition monkey brain big number go brrrr

[low bear]

the only thing I would be worried about is icd of blitz

well Moros attack is good even without a boon at all so it wasn't so bad

I wish had gotten the dem/zeus duo that would be fun

[tame spindle]

idk if im crazy but i feel like i need at least one core boon to get out of erebus on moros and it makes me upset when the game gives me poseidon for the third reroll in a row

[low bear]

you definitely don't need it from my experience

[tame spindle]

i keep dying to timer but i also have revs on which may be why

[low bear]

yeah turn rev off

[tired fulcrum]

Just born gain start then huntress is enough idk

[plain fossil]

Does poseidon work properly with moros btw

[low bear]

unless you're doing super high fear

[plain fossil]

Like do u get the full poseidon shotgun adding to explosions

[tame spindle]

ive been running 40

[low bear]

oh yeah I was wondering about that too, kinda hard to tell with all the nukes going off

[low bear]

definitely take out revenant

[tame spindle]

havent gotten past fields and i keep getting screwed by boon rng lol

[low bear]

at 45 I still have it off, rebuke is better

[tame spindle]

idk what setup to use im kinda scared of rebuke

[low bear]

Moros is the least dependent on boon rng in my experience

[past salmon]

Rebuke is pretty fine on moros I find

[low bear]

Moros melts rebuke don't have to worry at all

[tame spindle]

oh word

[low bear]

if you go for room 1 born gain then Panic is also a good choice

[tame spindle]

@past salmon i got to fields using 38 and got a poseidon door with no rerolls 💀

[past salmon]

Poseidon just loves you

[plain fossil]

Poseidon support boons arent terrible im a fan of water fitness

[low bear]

setup is pretty much triple earth, hera attack, aphro/dem/zeus special, dem cast, born gain, clean candle

[tame spindle]

bro hes following me i swear

[plain fossil]

Since u alrdy have 2 water from demeter right

[low bear]

Mint is even more amazing for Moros because of it's bonkers damage that requires you to be somewhat close

mint probably shaves off minutes in my run

[tame spindle]

yeah i got my first win on moros at 32 heat because i rolled heroic mint condition with vial LOL

[low bear]

I just jump in the middle of a horde of enemies and everything dies

all mini bosses also become trivial with mint

[tame spindle]

honestly mint condition best boon in the game

[low bear]

I would still take trusty over it just because of Suffering, but yeah Mint is amazing

[tame spindle]

thats fair i try reroll whenever theyre offered at the same time

[past salmon]

I click Mint everytime idc

[oblique ruin]

wait idk if its a glitch but if you have targeting q nad omega yah? if you dash it auto targets if they move.

[past salmon]

Mint is more based than trusty shield therefore its better 👍

[oblique ruin]

like first cast or lighting cast thing

[low bear]

no trusty = get one shot in every room in Tartarus

[oblique ruin]

wait is that the thing that does damage to you like going up?

[past salmon]

simply dont get hit in tarturus

[tame spindle]

there are some interesting interactions with the cast locking onto enemies when they teleport if u send it at the right time if thats what u mean

[tired fulcrum]

gets thrown into armored tempus and bag spam hell

[tame spindle]

you know what youre right im going back to 40 fear

[low bear]

lightning lance seems to lock the circle on them even if they TP away, same with howling

[oblique ruin]

yeah kind of awesome if its planned

[low bear]

not sure about Hestia's, which is the worst of the targetting casts

[low bear]

skill issue ig

[oblique ruin]

yeah its kind of the same thing but you have to do it instead of release on omega you dash first

[tame spindle]

i like hestias its like cute and like trying its best

acc is the damage on coal higher than lightning lance?

[oblique ruin]

yeah hestia is super cute

[low bear]

I don't think so, but lightning lance has better AoE I'm pretty sure

[oblique ruin]

i look for that q ability every run but im running zues q throw every time

[silent crow]

i think its weaker 😭

[low bear]

I just checked it's exactly the same lol, 50 for common up to 110 on heroic

[silent crow]

meanwhile llance gives ur cast autolockon from like 200m away

[low bear]

so yeah lightning lance is just better in every way

lightning lance still locks on even if the enemy is barely out of range it feels

[tame spindle]

my fault then i guess hestia is useless

[silent crow]

stg that range indicator is fake

[oblique ruin]

lightning land soing well but idk the 300 fire burst if you get it is pretty based?

does zues have somethign similar?

[low bear]

what's the 300 fire burst

[oblique ruin]

let me google it

[tame spindle]

ive tried it its not amazing imo

[low bear]

fire extinguisher? that requires you to full send Hestia which is pretty bad atm lol

[oblique ruin]

Fire Extinguisher?

[low bear]

Hestia's target should at least apply burn imo to be competitive with lightning lance

[tame spindle]

it can work but the amount of buildup is not worth it for the result

hestia should have a boon that makes me fire resistant

[oblique ruin]

yeah idk ive hit a few backstab assasin with flame strike and it got me to cronos fast

but ugh i still cant beat him

[low bear]

tbh would be cool if sprints gave you more benefits

Hestia - immune to fire/lava
Zeus - immune to floor traps
Poseidon - Walk on water

or something

[tame spindle]

walk on water 😭

[oblique ruin]

broooo i freakin want a full sent zues sprint build

[forest hinge]

are screenshots disabled on this channel?

[low bear]

yeah

[tame spindle]

zeus lets u fly

[oblique ruin]

like ugh its probably the best playstyle but so bad

[tame spindle]

copy link the image and send that here

[past salmon]

Breaker sprint seems better for sprint only runs.
I had a 15m run with it lol

[oblique ruin]

wait... meant to ask the other day. how yall feel about a test kitchen like just slap on whatever boon you want to see what happens to learn to min max?

[oblique ruin]

wait i still dont know all names which one is breaker?

[past salmon]

Poseidon

[forest hinge]

i used snipping tool on my in-game client :|

[tame spindle]

breaker better than hephaestus sprint?

[past salmon]

Idk screw hepheastus

[tame spindle]

wtfreak thats my homeboy

my buddy big man H himself

[forest hinge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/936359276119736443/1252822624078397460/Screenshot_2024-06-18_230850.png?ex=66739d7d&is=66724bfd&hm=793f99afbd882e06c24ab6e49c25888cbcded4d66e1bdd3cc06712b8d2d40c38&

hows this for a Moros setup?

[silent crow]

no lovers huh

i would take off rare boons and death for furies lovers and dd's

[past salmon]

People love divinity huh

[low bear]

what fear is this

[silent crow]

death doesnt do anything for moros bc the omega attack explosions count as regulars

[low bear]

Lovers is borderline must take at higher fear imo

it saves you SO MUCH damage

[forest hinge]

i usually take lovers but i greed for epic boons and extra base hp/mp

also Panic with Born Gain w/Moros sucks because charging ur O-Special doesn't proc it, u have to charge atk

[past salmon]

Rarity is a trap

[tired fulcrum]

Innit only first room

[past salmon]

Only in the first room cuz goofy ahh game

[forest hinge]

nah i just played thru a few rooms and same thing

[past salmon]

Well I can tell you that O special does work so idk maybe U had a weird bug or smth

[forest hinge]

and if u fall to like 19 mana, its the same thing

[past salmon]

Must have found a weird bug or smth idk

[low bear]

born gain works perfectly fine with moros and panic

[past salmon]

Yeh
Idk what Ur experiencing

[silent crow]

a colorful one...

me liek colors...

[limpid coral]

i can kinda see excellence if u go manaless

[plain fossil]

Fwiw some controller ppl complain about lightning lance controller targeting

[limpid coral]

cause it's like +33% to +50% on a lot of stuff

[silent crow]

nah dude its great i dont even need to target it js hits things if i look in their direction and tap

[forest hinge]

oh I'm stupid, I turned Auto-Fire on cause i wanted to see what it'd be like with Pan

[past salmon]

Silly billy

[plain fossil]

Well more like if ur getting bumrushed by a banshee or whatever sometimes it will target the thing behind it

[forest hinge]

Auto-Fire was making charging and Born Gain freak out with Panic-vow LOL

[past salmon]

Auto fire needs work

[plain fossil]

Idk i use kbm so im a lightning lance fan

[silent crow]

never happened to me 😼

[brittle spoke]

Lol i know this is out of topic but, why people doesnt use the axe's special? to me, it is more fun than spinning around

[plain fossil]

U can if u want its fine

Ppl use regular special to block a lot on every aspect

[brittle spoke]

i like using it but i was just wondering why people kinda..forget it exist?lmao

[limpid coral]

do people forget about it?

[brittle spoke]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh hell yes

[plain fossil]

The "omega special" aspect is Charon and its not something ppl forget about

[brittle spoke]

well i think so, the gameplays i saw, barely they would use it

[plain fossil]

Charon is pretty widely considered to be good

[brittle spoke]

ohhh i didnt try charon yet, im still using Than aspect

[limpid coral]

Somewhat on demand shield is strong yea

[tired fulcrum]

Than and mel are mostly attack focused aspects so the omega special isnt used as much, charon spams omega special all the time

[plain fossil]

Theres a few things axe can do that other aspects just cant because of the shield

For example u can block nearly everything charybdis does including her projectiles before they split, which in turn makes the projectile speed reduction from medea a lot less valuable and allows u to click something else

[bronze bear]

Does blocking Charybdis shots before they split prevent splitting? When I fight that serpent miniboss in Oceanus, every time I block the projectile they end up splitting in the other 4 directions anyway

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah

[plain fossil]

All those projectiles get stopped completely on block

[tired fulcrum]

Same with serpent you prob werent close enough

[plain fossil]

If u block the single fat projectile from serpent before it splits it disappears too

[bronze bear]

yeah I guess it split immediately before my shield then

[plain fossil]

U can also soot sprint it before it splits, eats the whole thing for 1 projectile

[inland rock]

can someone recommend a blitz build this the one status effect i still havent figured out how to make good

[tired fulcrum]

Just stick it on medea or moros special

[plain fossil]

Blitz has 2 uses:

1. put it on a secondary ability like eos/moros specials or skull special

2. use it as a percentage boon with some strange breakpoints/properties and good pom scaling

[past salmon]

Using it in tandom with zeus cast is also just solid

[plain fossil]

Yea thats option 1

[past salmon]

sort of ig

[plain fossil]

Put it on secondary damage source and proc it with main damage

[past salmon]

Also you can do Mel torches romantic spark

[brittle spoke]

thank you both, imma start using charon zmr🫡🫡

[past salmon]

which is one of my favourites to do

[weak cosmos]

You can also just wait for the boon rework patch

[past salmon]

I doubt Blitz will be changed tbh
It feels good

[plain fossil]

Blitz is better than i thought it was in week 1 but it still sucks in erebus and has some annoying breakpoint issues

[tired fulcrum]

Its nice that it comes with static shock in the pool

[past salmon]

I mean atleast Blitz is still better than scorch anyway 💀

[inland rock]

does it matter if blitz is on attack or special?

[silent crow]

very low bar

[past salmon]

special
definitely special

[silent crow]

slip is worse than them all...

[past salmon]

Slip is so bad and so lame lol

[silent crow]

how is rhis even in the game

[oblique ruin]

bro i legit just beat doggo where i q on my self dash release q and it just hits him for final damage....

[inland rock]

on that topic, it might be a case of mandella effect but i remember there being a boon which upgraded how long your cast was put down. is there?

[silent crow]

yes its heras cast its really terrible and bad

i like how ppl complain there arent enough unique casts and the two unique casts that actually exist both suck total ass

[plain fossil]

Its not very good but i find myself still clicking it a lot

[inland rock]

i could see it working with the apollo growth cast + aspect of pam

[past salmon]

well yeah its better than nothing
also easy origination

[silent crow]

u gotta pay tribute to Origination

[plain fossil]

U could make an argument to build it into the base but i think poseidon special is alrdy good enough