h2-builds-and-combat

[tired fulcrum]

Torch omega attack spam moment

[gritty heath]

YEP

that's my single biggest gripe with the last patch

[tired fulcrum]

When mel torches are the budget prepatch eos now

[silent crow]

i dont like new eos

[bleak night]

old Eos was the torch I actually liked playing lol

[civic ocean]

Some playstyles are more supported by the base design and hammers

Basic Attack Staff has a ton of hammer support

[silent crow]

i like op moros now but old eos was really cool

[inner ivy]

Double thrasher, long range and what else

[gritty heath]

I mean ideally wouldnt you want every playstyle represented by both aspects and hammers?

[civic ocean]

Maybe, we do have another aspect still to come for each weapon.

[bleak night]

someone posted this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1051942118698008606/1249330756455497728/Exceptional.mp4?ex=6666e96f&is=666597ef&hm=1bdd2ab78fe8e7db4a570d94097cead854423c6cb125528e5f572e8b31837a77&

[silent crow]

not every plkaystyle will be represented

[tired fulcrum]

Just add more aspects trustge

[silent crow]

hell yeah

[civic ocean]

2x attack, faster attack speed, 30 power and range off the top of my head

[gritty heath]

For sure. I get that it's EA and so if they intend on representing more playstyles, that's great. just the fact that all 3 staff aspects are related to omegas is a bit concerning in that regard

[inner ivy]

Wait wut, is 30 power a new one?

[silent crow]

yes

[gritty heath]

New momus is cool but I did like that it gave something for special spam. feels like they could have gone a different direction to keep that playstyle represented in the aspects

[inner ivy]

Oh must’ve missed it in patch notes. Cool, might give it a try cause it felt very lackluster when i did prepatch

[civic ocean]

It was really good then and it really good now

[silent crow]

staff base special still feels horrible to used

[civic ocean]

Base special was overnerfed yeah, feels pretty much unplayable without hammers and even then it's very low end

But that's okay, it's fine for certain weapons to have certain strengths and weaknesses, too

[silent crow]

it just controls terribly

double moonshot + poseidon + static shock seems ok but you have to mash and it locks you in place and they gave it knockback so you have to catch upt oyour enemies and ughghhg

[civic ocean]

You can't really mash, it's slow

[bleak night]

Yeah they kinda overnerfed it lol

[inner ivy]

Honestly feels like pos special is overtuned at epic, but they decided to nerf everything that uses it well instead, aside from pan

[silent crow]

what othetr weapons even use pos special its just pan isnt it

[gritty heath]

I agree with this in the sense that it's fine for weapons / aspects to be better in certain phases of the run and better fighting certain enemies. but stuff like "special spam isn't viable with staff" or "omega attack isn't good on torches without using specials" is undesirable imo

[silent crow]

i mean special spam wasnt viable on a lot of weapons in hades 1 without certain hammers or insane buffs

nobody was doing solo lucifer special runs

[tame spindle]

instead we dash attack spammed

[gritty heath]

I didn't like it then either.

[silent crow]

and nobody was asking for it either

[magic epoch]

Aight, I've changed my mind on Selene's Moon Water boon. I've upgraded it to the point that it's healing me 45HP, 50 Mana, and will reverse damage taken in the last 2 seconds. And I can use it 5 times between fountains. So that's 225HP and 250 mana.

[inner ivy]

Momus obviously, and also flames

[civic ocean]

I guess so? Part of thing is you get to choose your weapon and build, so the weapons shouldn't necessarily have universal appeal. Like the staff special is good at applying Blitz or Volc from distance and that's the thing it's good at.

[gritty heath]

If I only like one part of a weapon that should be okay and good

[silent crow]

should it be

[gritty heath]

If every part of a weapon isn't viable on it's own, then you have to try and make the weapon as a whole appealing to everyone, which isn't really possible

[civic ocean]

What does viable mean

[silent crow]

neglecting the other parts of the weapon imo should make you weaker thats the point of the weapon having more moves

[civic ocean]

Like viable as the only damaging button I click for a whole run?

[gritty heath]

With the exception of stuff like axe special which isn't a damaging move, yeah I think so

[civic ocean]

Axe special is a damage move though

[silent crow]

its like 10 dmg

[gritty heath]

oh I thought it was a blocking thing, mb

[silent crow]

it is a block

[civic ocean]

It's way way more than that if you watch Bismuth play Charon

[silent crow]

omega special is a different move

[magic epoch]

Block into Omega triple circle damaging move.

[gritty heath]

Well special and omega special are different

[bleak night]

Local Climate funni

[magic epoch]

Also the block also does damage if you're close to an enemy.

[slate pecan]

you can use it to remove blue hearts or stagger

[bleak night]

I miss Drill Axe, guys

[tired fulcrum]

Idk if its really pref on momus you just omega special once to proc your attacks which are the real damage, its better to have zeus for damage, hera for even more aoe, or dem for not getting murdered in high heat

[silent crow]

isnt pos special bugged on flames

[bleak night]

From 2 patches ago, rest in peace Drill Axe https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1238124170282532944/1238501379698458720/Drill_Axe.mp4?ex=666710cb&is=6665bf4b&hm=557de8fc4c3823c624673c89274e603d4cd603c31e861434eef13fc5f6a17587&

[inner ivy]

I’m talking about prepatch

[silent crow]

this is the single worst thing ive ever seen in my life

[civic ocean]

I personally have way more fun going "hmm how can I make this strong" vs "hmm how can the developers make this strong" but that's just me

[tired fulcrum]

I mean triple bomb lucifer was really good while hammrred up staff special is still trash

[bleak night]

[tired fulcrum]

i mixed up momus and moros for some reason

[gritty heath]

fwiw I'm less so talking about the objective strength of a particular button and moreso just annoyed that my aspect does nothing for me in some cases

[inner ivy]

Dudeee I wanted to try that, thanks for doing it for me

[bleak night]

I play meme builds more than actual serious runs at this point tbh

[civic ocean]

I think it's hard for your aspect to do nothing for you unless you build the sandwich

[gritty heath]

sandwich?

[civic ocean]

Like ppl told you that staff basic attack is the meta because someone beat 50 fear with it but you can totally play to your aspect and win with it

[inner ivy]

Fr the most fun way to play the game

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1248091651805544478/image.png?ex=666704ae&is=6665b32e&hm=bac19aa73b3f2d3889ec37a4368fb4a950ee50d406355c6980f0fed38f26e997&

[gritty heath]

That's actually a good example, staff attack is obviously strong but if you dont feel like using omegas, all of your aspects have 0 impact

special being the same way except it's not that strong

my objection isnt to something being good or not, it just doesnt feel good to play without an aspect

[silent crow]

competitive pokemon strikes again

[civic ocean]

I mean yeah if I pick up Charon Axe and just spinnon people over and over again then my aspect is having 0 impact but I chose to do that. I made the sandwich

[bleak night]

Karen quote

Anyone here play Pokémon SV by any chance

[inner ivy]

But obviously you chose charon yourself when you had options

[civic ocean]

You have options for staff attack too, it charges Serenity!

[gritty heath]

Serenity only does stuff if you use something other than attack

[inner ivy]

I’ll assume that’s a joke

[tired fulcrum]

Axe has a aspect thats omega oriented, though they made it kinda weirder for it. Staff aspects are all omega focused

[silent crow]

i played it and i hated it

[civic ocean]

100% stronger storm ring that I charge with basic huntress attacks? That sounds really strong to me

[silent crow]

gholdengo is cool though

[bleak night]

that's fair

[inner ivy]

It doesn’t do anything for the attack itself

[civic ocean]

Charon doesn't do anything for the OSpecial itself do you not click the button ever

[tired fulcrum]

Ngl charon is still the worse example

[inner ivy]

Iirc it increases the size?

[civic ocean]

It increases the size of the cast detonation, not the special itself iirc

[inner ivy]

It’s part of the combo anyways

[silent crow]

mel staff increasing channel rate is kind of silly tho

[bleak night]

Charon only increases the radius of the Cast Burst when detonated, yeah

[gritty heath]

axe omega special is actually a fine example

not represented by any aspects without the use of another button

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah than is kinda weird now

[silent crow]

i still hate than 😼

[bleak night]

I still enjoy Than, but I do miss the 20%

[civic ocean]

Im confused do you think that all 4 weapon aspects should just be "your attack/oattack/special/ospecial is better"

[tame spindle]

mel staff is easily the weakest aspect yea

[bleak night]

Watch out for my instacharging Omega Attacks that do no damage

[gritty heath]

I mean, without loss of creativity + representing cast and omega cast, yea that'd be cool

[silent crow]

honestly i think having playstyles that arent supported by aspects makes them cooler

[tired fulcrum]

Nah it makes me want old eos back

[civic ocean]

Can't believe you smacked your head on the wall trying to make geyser ring work on literally everything else, it's actually dope as heck on mel staff

[silent crow]

sometimes its a bit silly like three omega attack builds on staff

[silent crow]

the new eos hammer is just meh thats a different problem imo

[jovial cove]

can't momus give you three casts in a row

[silent crow]

but like charged volley/charged flight builds were fun in hades 1 partially bc you had to go out of your way to make them work and they were rly unique

[gritty heath]

you mean the returning attack hammer?

[silent crow]

yeah

[gritty heath]

I care less about that function being locked behind a hammer, and moreso just that if I wanna hold down left click on torches, I gotta use aspect of mel

[civic ocean]

Isn't momus the same

[inner ivy]

It feels awful unless you’re playing point blank

[civic ocean]

Nah the eos hammer is dope

[gritty heath]

do u mean moros

[civic ocean]

What is the function difference between momus and mel staff if you're spamming attack

Circe is even better probably

[tired fulcrum]

Torches

[gritty heath]

sorry, lil confused how we got back to staff?

[civic ocean]

Oh my b

Torches you can hold down left click on any aspect if you want

[jovial cove]

not Eos when you get omega it stops firing

[civic ocean]

Run panic

[tired fulcrum]

No because eos and moros will grief

[jovial cove]

but you COULD hold down on Moros

[gritty heath]

you cant,

if you dont clear moros ghosts with special, they cluster to the point that your attack doesnt go anywhere
eos stops your omega

[jovial cove]

that's why I like Mel torches I like the machine gun tapatapatapatapa

[tired fulcrum]

Iirc eos stops you from attacking even if you have no mana and also then you have no omega attack

[civic ocean]

Moros - move targets, they expire (honestly though just map special next to your dash)

Press both buttons at once

[gritty heath]

you cant special and continue firing omegas though, can you?

[tired fulcrum]

Then you have to re channel your omega attack every 3 seconds

[silent crow]

you can turn on autofire to hold attack with eos

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's fine because you also just did like 1k damage

[silent crow]

the one time this god forsaken setting is useful

[inner ivy]

It’s the play style not the damage

[gritty heath]

But we're talking about playstyle / qol / game feel, not damage output

[tired fulcrum]

Doesnt it still interrupt it slightly even though you can just hold

[white steppe]

wee did 32 axe https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824538394506952724/1249424750384517121/image.png?ex=666740f9&is=6665ef79&hm=0ad981ed96e5de1319721460f327b60e5a1b5e3fce66e6848751c09e635564fe&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=687&height=408
mono earth baby, what the hell is a dodge timing

[silent crow]

i have no idea

[silent crow]

you really tanked that 343 damage to chronos with coarse grit

[bleak night]

[white steppe]

I paid for the boon I use the boon, its like a speedometer on a car

[tired fulcrum]

A single dinky special usually wont hit all your ghosts

[silent crow]

power move

[civic ocean]

But that's part of the game, you have to adapt your playstyle to what it presents you, not the other way around

[tired fulcrum]

Or just play mel torches

[inner ivy]

That’s why they said they use mel torches 💀

[tired fulcrum]

Moros prolonged attack spam is just goofy and a bunch of wasted nukes

[civic ocean]

I think that's a perfect example of what Im talking about

[gritty heath]

in terms of adapting to what a run gives you, I agree. and I am playing pure attack staff and torch builds, and that it bothers me playing without an aspect

[civic ocean]

Yeah that's good I think

[gritty heath]

Playing without an aspect sucks!

aspects are fun, staff attack is fun. let me have both

[tired fulcrum]

Old eos was fun, budget eos less fun

[silent crow]

new eos is not fun

i do agree that some aspects feel like they force you to press a lot of buttons for no reason

[gritty heath]

and for what its worth, i can accept that not every permutation of attack/omega attack/special/omega special/cast/omega cast is going to be represented by 4 aspects on every weapon. but the base function of attack and special feels like it should be represented at least.

[silent crow]

like thanatos or eos

[gritty heath]

i actually dont mind thanatos at all

[silent crow]

it feels so awkward

[gritty heath]

I do like old thanatos better

[bleak night]

The attack speed boost is pretty welcome imo, though I do miss old Than too

[jovial cove]

it would be neat if any attack built crit

[silent crow]

idk this is supposed to be the spin aspect right why are you actually making me do work for the buff

[jovial cove]

omega or otherwise

[tame spindle]

u can just build regular attack and add the crits to ur omega cast

[gritty heath]

this is fair, but at least its not like moros where you need to use both parts constantly

[magic epoch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/685980401017159727/1249426872031383692/image.png?ex=666742f3&is=6665f173&hm=8b8b25efba97e5c6b7cdab586e17d6d5a4531b5a483299e529157de82fb7c3f4&

Best build I've played yet. At least I was able to get to Chronie's second phase this time!!!

[dusty sapphire]

you click attack so you can click omega attack

[bleak night]

I sometimes just use Than as a statstick and never use Omegas

[magic epoch]

O-Attack focused build, every boost I could find I stacked onto it.

[silent crow]

with moros its fun because its intuitive and makes sense

[tired fulcrum]

I think half the problem is that omega attacks mean weapons have larger base kits, like if we had more aspects itd be feasible

[bleak night]

That's a lot wtf

[silent crow]

specials blow up attacks. thats cool and theres multiple ways to use it and its not just you building up a number for no reason

[magic epoch]

I play with 6 rerolls. I managed to find three sets of 2x gods throughout the run.

[silent crow]

isnt perseph's normal omega move buff higher than the buff you would get from than crits

[bleak night]

Trial of the Gods stonks

[tame spindle]

but the point is the axe attack anyways the omega is the bonus

idk how persephone works at all but axe is big and speedy

[jovial cove]

I feel like I get more mileage out of Mel Axe when I want to speen. That 35 extra HP goes surprisingly far

[bleak night]

At this point I only mostly spin on Charon now

[inner ivy]

Huh ngl I thought the hits per second would be higher

[silent crow]

that build has no humanity

[bleak night]

It's meh, I did it for fun

[tame spindle]

wtf maybe thats my issue i dont spin on charon at all

[bleak night]

Don't do it lol, I only do it when I play Bis' build

Spin + Storm Ring

Also I abuse buffer state on Charon when I get Sudden Cleaver or Giga Cleaver

[wild pine]

I feel like even on Charon there's a lot of encounters in erebus that you clear faster with spins than with dunks

[tame spindle]

ive been trying to do 32f surface

[bleak night]

Try Dem + Zeus

Dem Cast, Blitz on Special + Lightning Lance

Still need to fit Born Gain somewhere in there though

[inner ivy]

saad

[tame spindle]

oh wtf ur cooking

[marble summit]

What's the new broken build? I haven't played with the new patch yet

[tired fulcrum]

You kinda want to born gain start on charon

[bleak night]

Nothing in particular is effortless now

[inner ivy]

Neat, did you come up with it yourself?

[white steppe]

what do i do for 32 on blades, is panseidon still legit?

[bleak night]

I did it on a 34 run all cobbled together

[gritty heath]

during hecate split, is there a way to discern the real one if she doesnt speak?

[pine patio]

Well the fakes flash green if you hit them

[arctic glacier]

@tame spindle https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1237143431214796850/1249433541490638948/Screenshot_1079.png?ex=66674929&is=6665f7a9&hm=9ff311ae91fdb2b52efb53c1e3ffbcef030388a2a3473822788eae077375cf8c&

Literally got the worst stuff, but still 599

[bleak night]

Did you get the Aphro-Dem duo as well ?

[arctic glacier]

didn't have Double Up or Life Affirmation

[arctic glacier]

nope, but I got 2 Daedalus that let me deal 2,5k damage

the one that is a big chop and the one that duplicates big chop

[tame spindle]

LOL gj

[arctic glacier]

but this was literally my first run experimenting, so...I can totally get 800+ 😛

[bleak night]

Imagine if you did, dang.

[arctic glacier]

I mean....I'll just try until I get the god run LOL

[tall notch]

I unbind attack when playing Charon || /j ||

[spare kite]

Real one attacks first iirc

Or clones at same time then real one

[gritty heath]

gotcha, ty

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1245199026778013757/1245199027306369045/2024-05-28_18-51-35_-_frame_at_0m19s.jpg?ex=66670ab6&is=6665b936&hm=790d9e395825bb2ad2e1b3c61bc7d0c5b24b9a501179a6e87d912fcaeb6c77fc& bigger smoke cloud

[quartz plaza]

What is Guan Yu?

[bleak night]

Spear Aspect from Hades 1 that tosses out spin attacks. It takes too long to get down so purely a meme build. I can suggest Hera Attack, Demeter on Cast and Heph on support and armour boons as a core, since Earth is the best element to stack rn

[quartz plaza]

Thoughts on this? https://i.imgur.com/ZblnsN2.png was trying to stack hp (messed up boons I think to unlock damage from Hp)

[quartz plaza]

What makes earth so good?

[tired fulcrum]

It makes you not get murdered

[quartz plaza]

Why Than over Mel aspect?

[white steppe]

idk i went in with the idea of spinning and it turned into an attack build

[quartz plaza]

Order of keepsakes Hera, Dem, Heph?

[white steppe]

i didnt get born gain and i skipped mana rooms lul

[quartz plaza]

Haven tried an earth run

[bleak night]

Earth has Coarse Grit from Demeter. With 6 Earth, your max damage taken is reduced to 15. Hephaestus also has Martial Art, which boosts your non-omega Attack and Special by 5% per Earth

[quartz plaza]

With Vow of Forsaking, if I get two boons I want … should i try to reroll to make it so I don’t lose one?

[bleak night]

Pretty much what I do, yeah

[shell sun]

Is blitz worth running? each time i tried it just felt like a waste

[silent crow]

on some weapons

[bleak night]

I feel like it's just another Hephaestus core boon thing. Put it on something unimportant to your build so you can weave it in once per rotation. But tbh, I don't like it much except on Charon and Torch Special

[white steppe]

one of my first boons was martial arts along w trusty shield lul

[bleak night]

Good haul

[shell sun]

why on the torch special? like i feel like it barely procs

its just odd that there aren't a lot of options to activate blitz immidietly (like the aphro duo)

[silent crow]

torch omega special really

[bleak night]

Dunno, actually. I ask for Torch builds since it's my worst weapon and people tell me Blitz or Dem on Special is the play

[shell sun]

i just had a good torch build with hera and demeter, but its prolly the boons and not the torches themselves

[silent crow]

u just get a lot of free flat dmg bc its rly easy to rack up 120 damage with moros

[robust prism]

yeah pretty much, it's also good on skull special I guess

[bleak night]

Oh true, Blitz is rly good on Medea

[shell sun]

haven't tried medea's aspect yet, should try it when time comes

[tall notch]

Situational but it sometimes is the right play

[bleak night]

Try it, yeah. You don't even need mana lol

[shell sun]

currently im an artemis knives enjoyer

[shell sun]

haven't even looked at it lmao, I just used persephone

[tame spindle]

i dont enjoy anything and am going to take a break for now i might just not be cut out for surface shenanigans

[bleak night]

Ah, but you know the general gameplay loop on it ?

[shell sun]

nope

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1243937802530455572/Medealoop.mp4?ex=6667115b&is=6665bfdb&hm=a2076b875e0fe2404548bef67d3ec87903fbf19c5b3de650651247e0de7de809&

[shell sun]

ok im sold

[bleak night]

Zeus on Special and Hera or Aphro on Attack is the usual

It's a really risky playstyle tho

[pale vortex]

@bleak night btw i got chonos again with mel axe!! hera on attack, deme on cast and hephestus on special!! it was dope haha!

[bleak night]

earthstacking is great huh ?

[tall notch]

WABS

[bleak night]

[shell sun]

i lost the 50/50 on armoatic phial

[bleak night]

What got rarified instead ?

[quartz plaza]

And would you do Than or Mel aspect with this?

[bleak night]

Both work well with it honestly

[tired fulcrum]

charon

[pale vortex]

i got the mint condition too!! it was nice tbh hehe!!

[white steppe]

button mashing m1 on than and ignoring the spin is pretty funny

[quartz plaza]

I have Mel at Rank 5, and Than ... at Rank 1

[white steppe]

you didnt level than last patch?

[quartz plaza]

I just started playing this patch

[errant apex]

any tips for ygnium high fear? which aspect? which boons? which vows to avoid?

[quartz plaza]

this seem reasonable for 16 fear? no magick https://i.imgur.com/YWicoWV.png

[pale vortex]

also the role of element stacking is to get the affirmation of each element active?

[tired fulcrum]

I mean fury 2 isnt the easiest unless you just want to take it

[bleak night]

Helps with Coarse Grit and Martial Art stacking ye

[bleak night]

Swap somrthing for Charon shop +80% price. People don't really struggle with it

[white steppe]

builds character

[quartz plaza]

and the earth build is no magic, aye?

[bleak night]

Iirc Revs are fine on Ygnium compared to the other weapons, meanwhile you try to avoid Onion and Panic

[tired fulcrum]

At 16 i would do poverty 1 at most

[white steppe]

i wonder when they'll add the "win with every vow" prophecy and ill have to pick abandonment

[pale vortex]

i never got these tbh at my run..

[quartz plaza]

cards seem reasonable? https://i.imgur.com/zLvKSVY.png

[bleak night]

Coarse Grit massively increases your defensive potential, so try to find it on the next run

[bleak night]

Looks standard, yeah

[tired fulcrum]

Vow of forsaking helps with getting coarse grit

[bleak night]

True

[robust prism]

I'd probably turn wandering 2 on and maybe 1 fury off instead

[quartz plaza]

anything to add to this earth build? @bleak night

Attack: Hera
Special:
Cast: Demeter (Arctic Ring)
Sprint: 
Magick:

Other Key:
Coarse Grit (Demeter)
Martial Art


# Hera

Attack (+50%) [earth]

Proper Upbringing [earth]
Uncommong Grace

# Demeter

Cast: Arctic Ring (Freeze) [water]
Gale Force (Cyclone) [water]

Coarse Grit (max 15)
Rare Crop [earth] (gain rarity)
Plentiful Forage [earth]
Winter Coat [earth] (Prime to absorb)

# Heph

Volcanic Flourish

Martial Art


Heavy Metal
Trusty Shield
Mint Condition

Molten Touch
Tough Trade

[bleak night]

Add the fact that Artemis, Hermes, Chaos and Narcissus can also assist you in getting Earth

It's so unbelievably easy to stack up

[quartz plaza]

stack earth, got it

[tired fulcrum]

Dying wish from hera is quite good, and so is cyclones from demeter

[quartz plaza]

that's Gale Force, right?

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah, also her sprint

[bleak night]

Yeah, the Sprint is also good

[shell sun]

Hydraulic might, which isnt a total loss, but i aimed for flame strike till posideon came out of nowhere

[bleak night]

Heroic Hydraulic Might is neat to have at least

[shell sun]

yep yep

ight will try medea now, and give a feedback later

[bleak night]

Hf

[quartz plaza]

you can't reroll a non-boon door into a boon, can you?

(he said after trying 3 times)

[bleak night]

Hearts, Mana and Coins can

Not the resources though

[quartz plaza]

not psyche, ambrosia, or ashes :D

[bleak night]

Yeah

[quartz plaza]

TIL

[white steppe]

rerolling coin/hp/mana doors for gods is in my opinion kinda unreliable

like it'll try to force you into the other stuff before it offers a god door

[quartz plaza]

trying thanatos this run (have it rank 4 now) -- it's so fast!

[white steppe]

i rolled coins into health mana pom hammer in that order

[quartz plaza]

what hammers am i look for in this earth build?

[bleak night]

Attack based ones and Empowering Guard

Rapid Slash and Dashing Heave mostly, avoid Big Chop ones

Unless you wanna Big Chop, your choice

[quartz plaza]

is Big Chop even good? seems so clunky when i've tried it

[bleak night]

It has its uses

[white steppe]

oh empowering guard looks kinda nice, I ran unyielding and rapid slash

[bleak night]

Unyielding is great too, yeah. Power is always welcome

[tame spindle]

😭😭😭

[quartz plaza]

If in Erebus I have Hera keepsake and have organically found Heph, I don't need Heph keepsake next zone right? Can Just equip Demeter?

awkward first hammer https://i.imgur.com/1QV717G.png (and can't reroll hammers i guess)

[white steppe]

the chop is calling

[quartz plaza]

I guess I big chop since the other two do nothing for me

Artemis, Hermes, Chaos don't count as gods for the 4 gods, right?

[white steppe]

yea

[quartz plaza]

will we see athena in hades2? (my favorite goddess)

[pale vortex]

I will try it for sure!! I just saw what it does!!!

[robust prism]

we will

dunno if she will be a normal god or a one-time encounter kind of thing like artemis though

[dense moss]

oh my goddddd they nerfed my favorite Crutch (Moon Water) 😭😭😭

[civic ocean]

Her and Ares are the boss of Olympus and all they do is merciful end divine dash attack you

[robust prism]

lmaooo

would be pretty cool ngl

[quartz plaza]

Cereberus seems to hit me when I'm behind him when he's exploding everything? :(

Not 100% sure how that fight works and keep taking a lot of damage, do I just have to run away when he makes everything red

i was trying to stand on the spot where he was in between the circles, but maybe that doesn't work?

Mint Condition is so damn good o.O

[versed bear]

I literally said "oh, Jesus Christ, no" out loud.

[quartz plaza]

aww yes https://i.imgur.com/hBPeriE.png +45% dmg yes plz

oof lost my hera attack since my last heph boon had only one choice -- overwriting the hera attack :( died on chronos, but still fun run -- earth strong!

missed coarse grit too sadly

[shell sun]

okay what do i choose between hammer, chaos gate, and boon contest(?)

[quartz plaza]

hammer i think?

[shell sun]

the game makes me choose and i hate it

honestly yeah i think ill take hammer

[civic ocean]

This is an insanely complex question

Like it depends on like 10 factors

[shell sun]

i went for the hammer in the end

because im aiming for a duo, and i already have the requirements

and i was too close to the guardian to choose chaos

[brittle imp]

so im doing aphro big chop run right now and
i got a chaos strike boon, an epic atk speed from hermes, and the rapid slash hammer
i love it here

this is the face of cheese

[strange kite]

it depends on ur weapon, how early it is in the run and ur goal (speed or reliable clear)

if ur run is put together and u dont need hammer or boons to clear fast then chaos gate is the best for letting u skip a room

ofc if u can benefit from chaos in some way then chaos can be better than hammer anyways

i lean chaos usually for speed

[shell sun]

i just finished the run lmao

got the hammer, which kinda helped me with than aspect. got a chaos gate and equipped his keepsake for another prize, but nothing that aged well

[signal quarry]

Hi! I got a question lol. I was using the aspect of Artemis for Lim and Oros and I can't figure out how it works. It says that it occasionally grants you parry and riposte, but how occasionally tho? Because I tried a few runs and I don't seem to get the buffs like ever (yes I use the omega attack almost all the time)

[shell sun]

if you get hit with the shield while channeling omega attack, all your attacks (not just the omega) recieve huge crit chance for attacks (omega and basic)

[civic ocean]

It's not occasional you just always parry if someone hits you while you're charging OAttack, and then it goes on cooldown until "PARRY READY!" pops up again

[signal quarry]

ohhhh right

now I understand, the phrasing in Spanish was a bit odd and I couldn't figure how it worked exactly

thanks!

[civic ocean]

The phrasing is also odd in English. Same for Hephastus's Volcanic moves

[warped harness]

do i use death or the moon for persephone

[frosty sparrow]

The heph boon that grants armor and stops you from being interupted, is that only while the armor remains or even after its gone? Just want to make sute

I think its still one of my least favourite boons though

Also am I sleeping on the Heph legendary or is it as bad as I think? I kinda wish his legendary was drastically reducing your health in exchange for something closer to winter coat, a regenrating armor pool that regenerates based ond ealing damage or something like that. His legendary feels like a placeholder/lazy to me

[merry flint]

Heavy metal keeps knockback immunity even after armor is gone

Useful against succ attacks

[silent moon]

anybody who has a great sister blade build?

[frosty sparrow]

Which aspect? Poseidon for Pan. Aphro for Artemis. Its my favourite and hard to go wrong with the blades

[silent moon]

ok thankA

thanks

[frosty sparrow]

Poseidon boon adds the most damage to specials. potentailly an extra 40 per blade so with Pan it wrecks.
Aphor adds up to 200% extra damage up close which the omega attack with the blades and critical does well

[gleaming drum]

one question, for an attack-based Flames build, is Hera the best attack? it feels very good how it provides nice aoe, but maybe I'm missing out on others

[frosty sparrow]

hera provides aoe?

[gleaming drum]

yeah because of the hitch debuff, if you hit an enemy, all other enemies that were hit take damage. It feels like a better version of chain lightning imo

[hollow stag]

Is it me, or channel speed buffs for Axe Special barely affect its channel speed? At least for Charon

[frosty sparrow]

Sorry wasnt sure if you meant somethign else. I tried it thinking the same thing and it felt underwhelming to me persoanlly. The torches now attack so fast that I think they do really weill with blitz and chain lightning or make a momus substitute even. The poseidon attack bonus is weaker than a special but the flames fire really quick and allow dodging.

[gleaming drum]

I'll have test poseidon's attack

[tough pasture]

What is your artemis aspect with aphro build gameplay loop?

[tall notch]

I play Hera rather than Aphro, but I very much enjoy teleporting all over the place

[timber pawn]

It really is just fun isn't it

[supple python]

'Location' and 'Encounter' are different correct? The former being the region and the latter the current fight? Also 'Weapon' and 'Attack' are different as well? Weapon being attack and special, vs just attack? I feel like I've seen some boons have semi confusing uses of the tags?

[crystal pine]

What boons are best for new eos? I've never played eos before

[timber pawn]

Do you have specific context for the weapon/attack example?

[ornate orchid]

First turn off the sorceress arcana. Enter encounter, riposte, omega attacks, win

[supple python]

Trusty Shield boon offered by Heph. "After entering a location, prime magick to gain armor until the next location"

[ornate orchid]

I remember seeing Apollo legendary work on Eos’s daybreaker in one of Haelian’s videos but Idr if it worked for me.

[timber pawn]

Ya your interpretation is correct, so for example you only get the armor once per fields room, and in a fields room you may have 2/3 encounters

[supple python]

Ahh, tyty.

[ornate orchid]

I thought location was any room and encounter is ones with enemies?

I still call the regions biomes for some reason

[uneven palm]

Fields messes with that. A location in the Fields can have multiple encounters (each reward)

[ornate orchid]

Ye that too

[crystal pine]

Ty, I'll give it a go

[timber pawn]

Tbh I think this is the clearest example of what a location and encounter are

[tough pasture]

You don't want to slow down time? Why not?

And to get riposte, don't we need to get hit so that our build passively parries?

[ornate orchid]

Because you wanna get hit while charging your omega attack

Slowed enemies slow you down too essentially.

[tough pasture]

Ah. So that's what wasn't clear to me in the gameplay loop sequence you explained.

I should want to get hit as I'm charging and then do omega attacks...

[ornate orchid]

Ah yes mb, I clumped all the parrying and riposting stuff into just “riposte”

Also get hammers that boost your omega attack damage

[sudden coyote]

Yeah but I personally found slowing time actually makes it easier to proc the riposte

[frosty sparrow]

It makes it easier but can make you wait a long time for it happen. Although Im not sure if Im imagining it since I dont think its mentioned in the patch notes but is the cast slow down not as much now

[tough pasture]

I'll try it both ways (with and without the sorceress arcana card).

[white steppe]

sorceress on artemis is pain, you always think they'll hit you faster than they do so you just stand there like a chump

[sudden coyote]

It’s good for big attacks like cerebus

[white steppe]

...why?

[frosty sparrow]

Whats the go to arcana set up? I want all the fate roles but feel I have to give up too many cards I love to get it.

[gleaming drum]

does second strike work with blitz?

[sudden coyote]

At 29 grasp I have the second to last row entirely filled and the last row filled besides judgement

The remaining grasp is death defiance and the Titan

You can go for the unseen if you want along with some other 1 cost cards depending on what you value

[white steppe]

you're skipping out on huntress, furies and lovers by doing that

[sudden coyote]

Ok and

[supple python]

Do infernal chests count as encounters?

[white steppe]

I do like wayward, furies, messenger, titan, lovers, swift runner, eternity, centaur, origination and all the roll related ones plus boatman

then I rotate between huntress and moon depending on the build

[sudden coyote]

To me the biggest sacrifice would be death defiance and the unseen

Otherwise the lack in card damage can be easily made up by the increased boon rarity

[white steppe]

just seems excessive on the boon rarity and not enough on the damage, especially since we have a vow that doesnt like a lot of rarity

[timber pawn]

A lot of folks don't feel than unseen is very good value for how expensive it is grasp wise. The lovers arcana is 3 free hits on every boss which can be extremely impactful

[plain fossil]

skipping lovers is not really where u wanna be imo

[sudden coyote]

Idk man sounds like to much for a situational card slot

[plain fossil]

id say of the ppl that are regularly doing 32s here the setup looks usually pretty similar?

[white steppe]

you're in the fighting a boss situation every run

[plain fossil]

lemme log in and i'll share mine

[latent solstice]

moros is epic and legit

[sudden coyote]

I mean if it’s the 32 fear meta sure go ahead I’m speaking from my causal experience

[sudden coyote]

Yeah but is 3 hits during a boss(4 times) better than something that could help every room

[magic moss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1249502882819215453/1249502903094214687/image.png?ex=666789c2&is=66663842&hm=e740154e23418fb1c62783e3e7cf6f4ec0ad1a3f95a35ff720948cca4ded4d69& this is what i run for 32+

[white steppe]

it only really helps until you get a gain boon

[timber pawn]

I'd argue unseen is more situational as it's irrelevant as soon as you get a regen boon

[ornate orchid]

I was about to say

[plain fossil]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/751691459580919834/1249503028030083112/image.png?ex=666789e0&is=66663860&hm=b9df670fb90f52919c8cbe5371c7661004602c0fade50bb173998ec9424d08e1&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=377&height=477

[sudden coyote]

I agree but it the issue is you have to sacrifice a boon slots for that

[white steppe]

also i know you're on 29 grasp but not running the immediate dash card sounds mental

[timber pawn]

This or something close to this is pretty usual

[ornate orchid]

Lovers could be the difference between a win and a loss

[plain fossil]

nearly identical 🙂 i dont think i would skip 10 rerolls for strength but if ur white antler ur allowed

[magic moss]

yeah im an antler guy

[white steppe]

the 4 mana per second regen isn carrying you on a build that's using a lot of it

[plain fossil]

unseen doesnt sustain mana on its own anyway its 4/sec at max rank

so u need a gain boon or chaos anyway

[timber pawn]

The game tries to feed you core boons either way and 4 magic/sec isn't enough to function as regen for most builds using mp

Whoops, repeating other folks

[magic moss]

and i normally dont play for specific builds anyway since i like to play with what im given so the rerolls are just an added bonus

[sudden coyote]

It must just be a me thing then because I didn’t need to run regen boons with it unless it was something like the flames

[plain fossil]

if u need to click strength than that setup is ok i dont mind it im just aware that its a big sacrifice

[white steppe]

persephone? charon? thanatos? momus? pan?

[magic moss]

oh yeah 4 rerolls is a huge loss but with how i like to play strength is just infinitely more value so its more of a personal thing

[plain fossil]

actually i should upgrade my boatman lmao ive been running around this whole time with level 2 boatman lmao -50g

[timber pawn]

Bruh haha

[white steppe]

i did my judgement clear w lvl 2 judgement lul

that lvl 3 is way too expensive

[sudden coyote]

Thanatos hasn’t been an issue

[white steppe]

cool, the rest?

[plain fossil]

so did i

[magic moss]

i just did all of my clears with god mode no fear so all lvl 1 baby

for essentially every minor prophecy

[white steppe]

gotta throw a run to get the zeus legendary for prophecy sadge

[timber pawn]

One thing I do want to clarify is I'm happy you've found a setup you like, I am just suggesting it's not the most common approach to an arcana setup

[plain fossil]

hey has anyone tried zero mana mel torches or is the mana setup just better

[timber pawn]

Was that you running zero mana torches originally or someone else I don't remember

[plain fossil]

yea it was me but i was running zero mana special torches and that build is giga dead without hammer

[white steppe]

75 power on specials hammer or bust?

[plain fossil]

torch regular special is horrendous this patch

[silent crow]

why do you do this to yourself

[plain fossil]

yep, if u hit that hammer ur old momus but weird

[plain fossil]

because i like clicking static shock

[silent crow]

click static shock with an actually good weapon pls

[white steppe]

specials dont even have that high a fire rate lul

[plain fossil]

uh no its mel torches with attack spam

u guys gotta keep up with the meta smh ur still on last week

[white steppe]

ah should've known

[silent crow]

dies instanrly

[plain fossil]

u dont click special

well i mean moros and eos both have like

[silent crow]

i feel like moros will always just be better

[plain fossil]

massive game-ending issues if u try and spam attacks in normal circumstances lul

[magic moss]

i mean with the new attack speed buffs i think East was playing some scorch torch build and getting lots of base power with hestia infusion

[plain fossil]

hm

that guy has a hardon for scorch

good to know tho thanks

[white steppe]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824538394506952724/1249505627194134578/family-guy-death-pose-v0-l16fivc6zdia1.jpg?ex=66678c4c&is=66663acc&hm=ccfaad58f9a8ddfdf6e23c6d154d1d53263eb16d6f80c447fd24ba8994947f45&=&format=webp&width=1177&height=662
how moros feels when you run out of mana for omega specials

[magic moss]

bro i love hestia

[plain fossil]

moros with zero mana setup pretty horrendous ngl

[magic moss]

watch this going moros with 0 mana setup

scorch build

nvm moros is garbanzo beans the attacks stick to each other

[ornate orchid]

Can the torch just disappear 😔

[lament spruce]

Hey, so I am trying to do a Aspect of Pan build. What's the best way to go about it?

[magic moss]

easiest option is poseidon special with born gain

[plain fossil]

massive game-ending issues

[gleaming drum]

i was playing moros and i got the hammer that reverses the shots when you dash, and then they disappear. I feel that shouldn't be intended

[plain fossil]

ok this is too slow out of the gate

mana it is

[ornate orchid]

Special hammers (hook knives, 16 one, or faster omega charge), apollo legendary, poseidon on special

[civic ocean]

Get sicknasty with it or play mel

Moros 0 mana is great in theory

[magic moss]

moros 0 mana IN THEORY is the best because its the only one that can still fully utilize its kit without mana among the torches, but the fact that the attacks stick together and bump into each other is a massive game ending detriment

[civic ocean]

Nah I am like so confident it's good (it would be better if they didn't stick but)

[ornate orchid]

My personal problem with Moros is I find I have minimal control over where the explosives land and by the time I’ll boom them there’s too many that most will explode onto nothing

[civic ocean]

If there are no enemies there is no problem

Go hit the other enemies

[ornate orchid]

Fair 🤔

[civic ocean]

I mean Moros would be much better if the bullets didn't stick but I suspect there is a way to get so good at using the specials that it doesn't matter

Buuuut that takes a lot of hard work and practice that I don't think anyone wants to put in just to play 0 mana moros

[ornate orchid]

Have you tried using the hammer that turns it into straight firing projectile? Or was that removed

[civic ocean]

It was

Once my volume challenge is over I want to like rebind dash and cast and then relearn how to play the game

Then I think I want to learn to play 0 mana Moros

[ornate orchid]

Then they rework it next patch

[civic ocean]

That's okay we just relearn it again

I had to relearn Mel Flames after the last patch

The main thing I wanna do is learn a fun Blades build

Might try Antler start

[ornate orchid]

Isn’t Mel Flames just… spam omega special?

[civic ocean]

No thats kinda bad now, mel flames is just spam attack

[ornate orchid]

A bit counterintuitive to its effects tho but I see how that is

[white steppe]

what changed that would make spamming attack on the special aspect optimal

[tall notch]

Eos at home?!

[civic ocean]

5 more mana per cast for tge omega special

And the special itself being way worse at basic

[civic ocean]

Yeah just playing air fryer double scorch start at 32

[ornate orchid]

I see that as instant wolf howl

[civic ocean]

Well considering getting wolf howl is like one of the least consistent things in the game idk

You can also just get wolf howl with the attack

[tall notch]

You just don't understand the Korb strats
Special into wolf howl is about to be meta

[civic ocean]

Should I just do full send psycho blades and play naked 30 hp antler start

[tall notch]

Ofc

[civic ocean]

I kinda f with it

Would mean I am playing Toula in a run

[ornate orchid]

Don’t forget to max vow of suffering

[magic moss]

triple blood ofc as well

[tall notch]

Is the arcana a no centaur setup?

[civic ocean]

I think you are probably meant to max the damage vows?

Just don't get hit

[ornate orchid]

Unless you can do a no hit run no lol

[plain fossil]

the attack got way better and the special got worse

[civic ocean]

I think it's kinda easier not to get hit on blades

[tall notch]

No hit run or click Heph

[plain fossil]

hey how is poseidon supposed to work with torch attack

[civic ocean]

how does it work

I figured it was fine

[plain fossil]

uh it seems to not proc poseidon on anything other than the first target hit? i can retry some more

[ornate orchid]

My first few 32 fear attempts involved 30 base hp, antler, max fury, suffering, and some blood. I was humbled real fast

[civic ocean]

Yeah but it's about having fun, I'm only 2-6 on my blades runs in this challenge forcing triple earth

[plain fossil]

oh no nvm its working

[civic ocean]

The skull is carrying me I'm 8-0 so far at 32 Chronos on it since June started, 11-0 winstreak currently

[timber pawn]

Speedrunners have a no centaur save where they just didn't enable it lol

[ornate orchid]

8-0 on 32 fear?

[civic ocean]

Yeah unseeded on stream

[ornate orchid]

Sick. I have no motivation to do 32 fear after unlocking the last statue

[timber pawn]

You're getting really consistent, nice job man

[civic ocean]

Eh its fine? Post patch I think 32 got considerably easier and the main thing holding me back is like actual physical stamina and luck

[timber pawn]

What do you think made it easier? Just weapon buffs

[civic ocean]

Erebus is easier yeah

Also I got smarter and like turned on scars 3

But I think my builds are getting too meta so I'm gonna change the blades and lean into air fryer stuff

[ornate orchid]

I was seeing a bunch of 32 fear recommendations on skull on Reddit

[civic ocean]

I actually think Air Fryer Persephone is a bunch worse but I can still win

[civic ocean]

Is anyone talking about the Air Fryer

[ornate orchid]

Tbh idk what air fryer is supposed to mean

But the one I remember is the Mel aspect one

[civic ocean]

It's a build that I do for Skull and now Flames

[tall notch]

You air fry the enemies

[ornate orchid]

Go on…

[tall notch]

Tldr is that Zeus infusion boosts scorch damage by a lot

[civic ocean]

Air Quality changes the dps of scorch from 40 to 180 basically

[ornate orchid]

Wtf

[magic moss]

so tldr Air Quality makes it so minimum damage is 30, Scorch ticks little at a time for iirc 10 per tick, but air quality buffs that tick to 30. So a single scorch application of ex 30 makes it deal not 10+10+10 but 30+30+30, effectively tripling its dps

[tall notch]

Air fryer is a really cool meme build

[magic moss]

now i dont exactly understand how scorch works in terms of actual ticks and damage application, but thats the general gist of it

[civic ocean]

I believe it's 40 total scorch consumed in 6 ticks per second

[ornate orchid]

Is it a meme build if it works

[magic moss]

it is so incredibly difficult to hit especially with forsaking enabled in high heats

[civic ocean]

It's not that hard!

[white steppe]

pin or dodge god?

[civic ocean]

Both

[magic moss]

hush you say its difficult so it sounds more impressive

[ornate orchid]

I was trying for that infusion on my torch run earlier but I did not think of getting scorch on top of it

[civic ocean]

For torches you go smolder ring flame strike and then lean into like passion dash, chain lightning, support fire, etc

Try and get a ranged cast and then just fight chronos from as far away as you can, dashing towards him when he throw boomerang

Skull you go Pers start Zeus and kill everythig with storm ring and the scorch stuff just helps with bosses and strays in mobs

[magic moss]

aint now way im so mad i am 3 gold off of getting a heph boon

3 GOLD MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[limpid coral]

what's the difference between glowing coal and lightning lance besides it can trigger the steam duo?

[cinder fog]

https://imgur.com/a/ZS4uRs1 that was close. last chance, last 12hp when timer was already out.

[limpid coral]

it actually seems worse in every way

[civic ocean]

Lightning lance locks on and is instant, sometimes skipping an enemy chasing you like a blood shade.

glowing coal is a fireball outward from you

Importantly at 32 Fear you are at times Forsaking Lightning Lance for stuff

[limpid coral]

I mean then you just hit the shade with the cast?

Unless it's a controller thing?

[civic ocean]

It's not that easy sometimes on controller yeah

[plain fossil]

yea lightning lance is way worse on controller i tried both

[limpid coral]

Otherwise lance instantly staggers, can't be blocked from hitting the middle of a group, and enemies can't literally walk out of it after you hit them

[plain fossil]

some things are a lot better with controller like sprinting, some things are worse like any point targeted effect

[prisma rapids]

Anyone know a great medea 32+ fear build?

[ornate orchid]

Apparently air fryer

[timber pawn]

Zeus special, demeter/hera attack, demeter cast

[tough pasture]

Is there something that changes melinoe's outfit to another color? I just watched a speedrun where I noticed the character had purple clothing.

[prisma rapids]

will test, thanks

[plain fossil]

yep arachne gives u a dress that changes ur outfit for as long as u keep it on

[tough pasture]

Ohhhhhhhhh.

That makes sense. Yeah, I had noticed that before.

[tall notch]

@civic ocean why are you teaching more people to WABS? You're a bad influence

[ornate orchid]

WABS? 👀

[timber pawn]

Weapon agnostic boon stacking

[tall notch]

Weapon
Agnostic
Boon
Stacking

Every weapon can clear 32f if you stack boons, one boon builds are the only skillful way of playing h2

[silent crow]

bruh 😭

[ornate orchid]

I am a bit lost

[tall notch]

It's just a cute inside joke after someone hated on air fryer torch clears and complained that torches are bad because they don't have a one boon build

And they used the weapon agnostic boon stacking line

[limpid coral]

what is a one boon build

[ornate orchid]

Other weapons have one-boon builds?

[limpid coral]

is air quality a 6 boon build

[ionic moon]

momus at the time lol

[ornate orchid]

Ah so weapon-agnostic meaning it doesn’t matter what weapon?

[tall notch]

Yeah

[ornate orchid]

I should try wabs some timer later 👀

What’s your 32 fear setup @civic ocean

[plain fossil]

i need to get better at artemis im so bad rn

[strange kite]

it wasnt boon stacking it was “high boon count” smh i cant believe im getting misquoted

[tall notch]

You might get the special dialogue where Mel says "it's WABSing time" before she fights Chronos if you get enough boons

[plain fossil]

literally eat everything and die

[ornate orchid]

With a capital T of course

[magic moss]

he changes based on aspect and build so like uh yeah

[ornate orchid]

Oh so it was you

[strange kite]

it’s not as bad for air fryer but any duo boon or especially legendary builds are actually highly problematic to build into

at least air fryer u will get it eventually

[plain fossil]

i dont think theres any builds out there that people actually recommend that have legendaries in them except as memes

[ornate orchid]

The staples/giveaways anyway

[plain fossil]

its more like hey this build works without legendary but u get a big powerspike if u hit it

[strange kite]

basically i dont like builds that require too many parts. the concept is the less u need the more reliable and faster u get strong in a run

[plain fossil]

there really shouldnt be too many locks for 32f probably the only hard never-unclick-this-for-32 are fury2, arrogance2 and forsaking

[strange kite]

fury2 is actually not never unclick imo

[silent crow]

isnt wandering 2 a neverunclick too

[strange kite]

because i find fury 2 surface too be a bit much

[plain fossil]

oh yea wandering2 is never unclick underground sure

[strange kite]

timer 1 is literally free and timer 2 is usually free

[plain fossil]

and yea timer1 at least

timer2 is a struggle on surface for some builds if we care about that

[tall notch]

The Medea madlads among us would argue timer3 is never unclick

[strange kite]

based tbh

except like selene start i guess

[gritty heath]

How do you save a run if you got room 1 Selene + the vow that makes you start with 0 magic? gotta get magic regen asap?

[silent crow]

im liking timer3 more and more

[strange kite]

also i like how medea is just redeeming blitz special like damn

[plain fossil]

i dont like timer3 on a lot of weapons

[tall notch]

Selene start is a break mandated by the game where you step away from the computer and let the mobs smack you until your seed resets

[strange kite]

selene start is where when u lose u have to quit game so the seed doesnt reset and u play selene start again

[plain fossil]

like im not sure how something like artemis can consistently do timer3 for example i certainly cant

[strange kite]

[magic moss]

i really dont like timer 3

my typical clears for each area fall ~5 min cuz i really dont like the whole pausing and all that whatnot + i like to collect whatever i can so timer 3 is just really bad for my playstyle/enjoyment

i can do timer 2, but even then i just feel pressured

even though i can pretty easily do it

[strange kite]

ill be honest i cant do timer 3 either. yet

i havent really tried tho

[magic moss]

if i were to do all the pausing stuff and not go for every collectable i can easily do timer 3 but thats too much effort and care for something i really dont care about

[plain fossil]

Timer 3 isnt something i enjoy but i respect that its an easy 3 fear on some weapons

[strange kite]

i always pause buffer

i especially against nemesis

[marble sable]

timer 2 is ok

timer 3 mid asf ngl

[plain fossil]

Like i mean i know theres that one dude who likes clicking onion underground but other than that dude id suggest the default behaviour is to prefer timer 3

[bleak night]

I find Timer 3 is only awful in Erebus

[strange kite]

timer 3 is absolutely fine… once u get past erebus

[plain fossil]

Thats because oceanus takes 4 minutes if ur slow lul

[bleak night]

On Oceanus and Fields it's easy, on Tart it's very restrictive of your choice

[strange kite]

erebus for some reason is the longest biome

u can probably grab an extra room in tart too

[plain fossil]

Its built around giving u more power before first boss, it actually makes the game easier

Same reason why u get minimal power in tart

[strange kite]

oceanus can be pretty slow when its like hippos and shells and water snakes

[marble sable]

the shells are rlly annoying

[tough pasture]

was the icarus skill that did 4000 damage after the armor was lost removed? I skimmed patch notes and didn't see it (though I might have missed it).

[plain fossil]

One of the side effects is that timer3 is a bit messed up for balance tho but i dont think sgg are balancing round timer3

[plain fossil]

No, i saw it as an option 5 minutes ago

[strange kite]

yeah i feel like timers were just “we did td3 in hades 1 just port it over”

[tough pasture]

ok, good good...

Love that skill. I timed it well in a run against eris and it was so awesome.

[strange kite]

td3 in hades 1 was probably like the freest of free

[plain fossil]

Im not fussed about any of it anyway its patch 2 of beta

Nobody gonna remember any of this after 1.0

[magic moss]

i never did td3 in hades 1 because of mf theseus and minotaur

[plain fossil]

Gonna be like 3 people being like REMEMBER PATCH 1 MOMUS

[magic moss]

i always took like 2 minutes on that fight especially with extreme measures

[magic moss]

hey its a good way to reminisce

[civic ocean]

Remember patch 1 mel flames

[marble sable]

just get a good build and u can melt theseus + minotaur in like less than 2 mins

[plain fossil]

new torch regular special is just not it

[strange kite]

that’s gonna be me

remember patch 1 forsaking

[civic ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/its-gonna-be-me-its-gonna-be-may-pop-missionnsync-nsync-gif-25520994

[plain fossil]

i dont miss momus at all for many reasons

[strange kite]

okay tbh i wont miss momus either but i will miss pan

[magic moss]

i know that its just god damn i hate that boss

[marble sable]

fr pan rn is goated

[magic moss]

its like a mental block i always take so much dmg from it

[strange kite]

nah i think pan is mid

[marble sable]

i loved chiron 😭

[magic moss]

ill lose like 2 dds to theseus but then get a no hit run on em hades

[marble sable]

its rlly good if u have hook knives

or spiral

[strange kite]

every hammer nerfed

[magic moss]

spiral is the worst special hammer on pan and i will die on this hill

[marble sable]

Nuh uh, use cast

[strange kite]

1 hammer removed and 2 extra useless hammer

[marble sable]

flick knives mid tbh

only good for close up dash strikes, if ur fighting chronos he could get like 2 hits in

[strange kite]

thats literally what im saying

hammers for pan suuuuuck so much

every. single. hammer. nerfed

[marble sable]

☹️

[sudden belfry]

tips for persephone?

[bleak night]

Flick Knives would be good if Blades didn't have the worst dash attack I've ever seen.

If they had Axe or Staff's dash attack it'd have use since you can double dash attack with no real startup anim, but Blades dash attack likes to do a lil twirl

[magic moss]

its still the worst imo and like i said i will die on this hill

[civic ocean]

Zeus cast start into anything % based for special

[marble sable]

its not THAT bad, u can pretty much shotgun anything if u have the right timing and u dash into them

[silent crow]

man free double damage is so bad

[strange kite]

m8 u dont understand what happened

[magic moss]

i did say worst special hammer, not that it was bad

[strange kite]

or if u think hook is double idk what to say to u

[marble sable]

eh fair enough

[magic moss]

hook is essentially double?

[silent crow]

how is hook not double lol

[marble sable]

wait is it not

[strange kite]

hammers for pan are bad because it is too hammer reliant. it was fine when there was like 4 good hammers and each hammer alone was very strong so hammer rng wasnt a big deal when u can reliably get at least 1 hammer to cary

[marble sable]

its literally double dmg

[strange kite]

hook isnt double damage lmao

i wish it was

[marble sable]

backstab pretty much makes it double dmg

[magic moss]

bro if your argument saying that hammers are bad on pan is supported by saying pan is too reliant on hammers then you have a fundamental misunderstanding here of arguments. This is a pan issue, not a hammers issue

[spare kite]

Ig they mean cuz it doesn't proc pos again?

[summer seal]

What hammers would you say are good for Pan at this point?

[strange kite]

yes pan is mid weapon thats my point

[magic moss]

any special hammer is still very fine, this guy is honestly just over reacting

[silent crow]

pan is dumb anyway daggers are so boring

[magic moss]

your main argument the past 5 minutes was that pan HAMMERS were bad

[marble sable]

nuh uh

[magic moss]

not the weapon itself

[strange kite]

bruuuh

[silent crow]

epic one button build

[magic moss]

???????????????????????????????

[silent crow]

but you press cast! the very hard to press button! the cast!

[strange kite]

yeah exactly hammers for pan suck so much

[marble sable]

monkey build fun

i dont have to use braincells for pan

[strange kite]

BECAUSE of how hammer reliant pan is for hammer

hammers dont exist in a vacuum budy how did u not understand this?

[silent crow]

every weapon is hammer reliant dude

[gritty heath]

one button builds are fun and also pan isnt a one button build

[silent crow]

except like the torches or something

[marble sable]

it is and it isnt tbh

[magic moss]

because you structured your argument in the most convoluted way imagineable and i can finally see your main point after i asked you to reiterate

also dude i cleared 32F with no special hammers on pan it really isnt that bad

[strange kite]

hammers are bad on pan because there’s too few good hammers

[marble sable]

ive played numerous runs on pan and most of it is special spam + two status spam

[silent crow]

how many good hammers are there like 3?

[strange kite]

and the few that exist arent enough to hard carry pan alone

[magic moss]

and all the special hammers on pan are still very good, even if they weren't as good as they were last patch

[magic moss]

theres a lot since pan isnt the only blades aspect

[strange kite]

the specials hammers used to be better and every hammer was insane so 1 hammer was like enough and 2 hammer was gg u win

[inland rock]

Hi guys im new here, is posting build images allowed here or is it only for victory boasting?

[silent crow]

theres the channel speed one, hook knifes, spirals, the one that makes u shoot in a straight line

[strange kite]

hammers for pan suck ass because of how diluted the pool is

[silent crow]

those are all pretty good

[magic moss]

if you are asking for tips/tricks on builds then here is fine, if its post run then victory boasting

[strange kite]

the line one isn’t a good pan hammer

[inland rock]

okay, thanks!

[marble sable]

channel speed + hook knives might be the best combo ngl

[silent crow]

ok 3 good hammers thats pretty decent

[strange kite]

channel > hook > bouncing > spiral

[marble sable]

bouncing as in dancing?

[silent crow]

compare that to staff there are 2 good attack hammers and if you dont get them you lose

[strange kite]

“good” they were nerfed to be merely good that’s not enough

[strange kite]

great staff is stupid weapon too ik

[magic moss]

imma be real dude i think you are being incredibly pessimistic and a stubborn a**hole, all the special hammers that pan wants are still very viable for high fear runs and are still solid options for any fear in general

[strange kite]

i never said pan is the worst aspect i said its mid

[strange kite]

no im saying it like it is and not huffing my copium

pan isnt a great aspect anymore.

[magic moss]

holy hell discussion with you is a pain im just not anymore go live in your own depressing world idc anymore

[strange kite]

there’s just better aspects now like moros all the skulls and axe

[silent crow]

i still dont get how hook isnt 2x dmg

that doesnt make sense are you whiffing the recall???

[strange kite]

it doesnt work with boon splash

[magic moss]

uh huh

[silent crow]

oh whatever

[magic moss]

ok nvm guy is just delusional alright that makes a lot more sense

[silent crow]

still a massive dmg increase

[strange kite]

so its literally not double

[magic moss]

moving on cuz i dont really care about arguing with this guy anymore

[strange kite]

i never said hook was bad dood.

hooks is good but it was significantly nerfed

[magic moss]

hooks never did double splash before the patch dude

[strange kite]

yes ik

[magic moss]

the only thing that got nerfed was the return speed how is that a significant nerf

[strange kite]

HUH?

[magic moss]

if you run aphro special then it is double damage

[gritty heath]

why is it so hard to tell what direction chronos is facing 😭

[strange kite]

are u not up to date with the hammers? im so confused here

[magic moss]

if you run literally any other % dmg special its double damage

[wheat bay]

Just assume he is always facing you unless he just finished farting out some attempt at damage within the last 1 second

[silent crow]

how does spirals work with pan does the pan bonus just get added onto the spirals

[strange kite]

nope

[silent crow]

i think he just always faces you
ig u could look at his wings if ur having trouble

[strange kite]

spiral makes ur fan worse

and more reliant on homing to hit ur shots

[magic moss]

you just charge it like normal and instead of increasing the fan size it makes you throw knives all around you in all direction

[strange kite]

and also spiral got nerfed too ofc for some reason

[silent crow]

"for some reason"

[magic moss]

dude imma be real no one cares about your complaints go take it too #h2-feedback if you really think they got overnerfed stop complaining here

its getting real annoying

[silent crow]

idk how to feel about pan balancr wise

i dont even have it maxed and the one time i used it i had the hater goggles on so i wasnt enjoying my time

i think i was just breezing thru everything tho no thoughts required

[strange kite]

whats really annoying is u getting super salty over me simply saying it like it is. i think pan is a mid weapon if u disagree thats fine but guess what builds and combat is where im gonna be saying what i think about a weapon if the topic comes up

[marble sable]

can safely say 90% of pan is spamming special

[magic moss]

this is a game in early access patch 2, im trying to find the viability and fun in every build and aspect. If you're just going to be a negative Andy and only see the downsides then idk what to say

[silent crow]

it is a lot of special

[civic ocean]

We get it tho right like we get u think pan was nerfed

[marble sable]

have pan maxed out 😭

[silent crow]

i got the spiral hammer from experimental hammer that run that was nice while it lasted

[civic ocean]

like go cook up a build that makes it still fun or smth

[silent crow]

im sure its more fun with a ranged cast or wtv

[strange kite]

i dont dislike spiral but i dont think it was op because it had a significant downside for room clearing purposes cuz ur shotgun outside of a cast is a bit worse

that said spiral also sorta increases ur channel speed so overall its still a good hammer

and the nerf to spiral wasnt too hard atleast

[magic moss]

if you dont like pan or blades that much just play a different aspect and stop projecting here, i still thoroughly enjoy playing pan and still think the hammers are fine as they are. If you disagree, thats fine, but i really dont want to hear you constantly bashing saying pan is mid and the hammers are trash i dont care

[civic ocean]

is pan mid that means I can play pan poseidon now right

[spare kite]

Wait what did spiral got as a nerf

[magic moss]

it didnt get nerfed bro is just making things up

[strange kite]

pan is mid and the hammers (like the actuall pickup) is trash for various reasons. it’s not an unplayable aspect and it can clear heat 32 on a selene start. keep playing it if u like it im not trying to stop u. there. ive said it all

[magic moss]

and i disagree with every single one of your points, but i simply do not care anymore. Thanks for your opinion

[silent crow]

im surprised momus is so good

[civic ocean]

k sick im playing pan poseidon

[ornate orchid]

Torch is bad. Everyone who disagrees is wrong

[silent crow]

it feels like it would be one of those aspects thats rly gimmicky but this thing rips ass

[inland rock]

i kind of agree

no matter how many times i try to make it good it doesnt work

[magic moss]

i mean being able to triple cast any omega attack should be good in any scenario theoretically

[strange kite]

mel torch seems bad fr

idk what im supposed to do with mel torch

[ornate orchid]

Torch it

[inland rock]

ive tried zeus, poseidon, and apollo on the attack + aspect of moros, it still isnt very good

[strange kite]

seems like moros is just better like in every way?

[spare kite]

Press the aspect and swap to moros

[inland rock]

or maybe its just cuz my playstyle is more an than scythe and artemis sister blades kind of thing

[magic moss]

you can do some cooking with air fryer mel or pink aura with hammers but for now moros is just a better option for torch

[spare kite]

Moros makes dashing for combat feel nice ngl

[strange kite]

i feel like its better for me to play moros 1 over mel 5

[inland rock]

which god do you guys usually put on torch attack?

[silent crow]

hera

[magic moss]

for moros? hera

[spare kite]

Hera or meme with spiteful strength

[inland rock]

isnt it on the special now tho?

[magic moss]

actually every torch hera

[spare kite]

Hm?
I mean, there's something nice about dashing while attacking/exploding ghosts that other weapons just don't have for me

[inland rock]

ah

[spare kite]

Omega special and just hold attack in the middle of the enemy group just have freeze on hand

[strange kite]

moros is a bit chaotic tho

[silent crow]

if only there was an aspect that took advantage of how good that feels

[strange kite]

and the ghosts arent that easy for me to manage

[inland rock]

do you not want it to be good

[strange kite]

how do u make sure u get ghosts on an enemy?

[spare kite]

Hug the enemy

[silent crow]

you dont you click omega special and go melee range

[strange kite]

oh i see

[magic moss]

omega special run into crowd hold fire

[civic ocean]

you can do that you can also just get gnarly sicknasty with it and hit them with max range then dash in special to the side and dash out

[spare kite]

Don't forget to scream yolo

[silent crow]

use huntress arcana btw the explosions are affected by it even if u blow up omegas into it

[inland rock]

what happened to aspect of eos tho

[strange kite]

huntress best arcana fr fr

[inland rock]

i remember at some point it was about it returning at sprint

[spare kite]

#NotMyAspect

[strange kite]

[spare kite]

I don't recognize new eos as an aspect

[magic moss]

reworked

[strange kite]

why did they rework eos instead of mel torch?

[worthy quartz]

crazy interaction i just got, someone else has likely gotten it but

the demeter boon that makes a boon common and upgrades it over time? Yea i had the hephy armor boon but lost the armor EVERY TIME it upgrades it reapplies the armor

[silent crow]

mel torch is fine

[magic moss]

new eos is kind of a disappointment ngl, they just took what was already a hammer and just made it an aspect

[spare kite]

My assumption is that they don't want you ignoring the special

[strange kite]

tbh i dont mind that kind of design specifically because some hammers are so fun it would be nice to have them on by default over numbers boost

for example psychic axe is really really fun hammer but i wish it was an aspect

[inland rock]

cough cough aspect of melinoe sister blades cough cough

[civic ocean]

I think if you could immediate channel the omega on Eos and not have the windup first it would be really cool

[spare kite]

I don't like dire candle on an aspect but it also copies tiny orbs

[civic ocean]

The problem with Eos is that it takes forever for buddy to come out

[silent crow]

they also nuked basic special damage in the same patch

[inland rock]

ig for a backstab build you it adds more backstab damage, aspect of melinoe

[magic moss]

i think the fact that it stops your fire after it goes out is far worse from a gameplay perspective

[inland rock]

but you can have a much higher damage output with backstab hammer + aspect of artemis

[magic moss]

makes the aspect so awkward to use

[inland rock]

that aspect needs a rework for sure

[civic ocean]

yeah I think you should be able to tap for regular fire and hold for big guy

[spare kite]

Mel-arty blades remind me of zag-nem swords lmfao

[limpid coral]

it flows nicely if you just want to fire the big shot and then start using special i guess

[civic ocean]

but tapping on flames attack is weirdge

[inland rock]

on the topic, does anybody actually upgrade aspect of artemis

[random rover]

Beginning to think I should just ignore Sorceress or any Hex that involves a time stop on startup. I get used to playing one way the whole run, then I have to switch up everything for Chronos, and it is routinely getting me killed at this point.

[magic moss]

i have every aspect maxed so yes

[inland rock]

well if you havent upgraded everything else

[civic ocean]

It is admittedly very strange design

[inland rock]

bonus attack omega attack speed is useless, considering its already fast

[magic moss]

i would like it if you could just hold fire on eos and when the omega attack comes out you just keep firing and the omega attack charges again. A continuous fire

[inland rock]

it shouldve been parry recharge time or something, but i suppose that would have made it too op

[spare kite]

Eos buddy is also a bit too slow for my taste

[random rover]

Yeah, like the game teaches you to play in one manner, then you get to the final boss and have to learn all over just for him.

[magic moss]

omega casting time reduction is a very powerful and very underrated upgrade you can get, especially on blades, so the 30% does make artemis feel much smoother to play

[random rover]

And I thought I'd learn to adapt on the fly after awhile, but at higher fears it just becomes more of an issue because I can't make those mistakes.

[strange kite]

i actually dont understand. why did the special get nerfed?

[inland rock]

they shouldve done more with the power of pause and reflect incantation

[strange kite]

on torches that is

[spare kite]

Good question

[silent crow]

so they can nerf it harder next patch

[strange kite]

i would avoid hexes but i think sorceress can still be worth it for most omega builds because it helps with literally 95% of a run

it helps with uptime cuz ur effectively cc-ing enemies for free

[random rover]

There are som hexes that are fine. Moonwater and Wolf Howl start up fast anyways, so no issues.

[inland rock]

the 80% slower hex is worthless

why cant you reroll on selene anyway, does she not count as a boon

[spare kite]

I never had problems with grandpa even with sorceress tbh
(That said I also don't have it on nowadays)

[strange kite]

yeah wolf howl is actually legit

[random rover]

No, she doesn't coutn as a boon.

[inland rock]

moonwater is only good if rnjesus decides to be nice and puts it at +2

[strange kite]

selene is literally a boon but they just decide she actually isnt

[random rover]

I work in Moon Beam if I get Selene in Erebus. +5 on Path of Stars makes a big difference.

[inland rock]

moon beam is fun but my natural instict is to dodge

[silent crow]

sorceress is too good to drop most of the time

[spare kite]

I've been taking phase shift a lot more nowadays

[magic moss]

just going to copy paste my thoughts on current selene hex tier list
S: Twilight Curse, Wolf Howl, Night Bloom
A: Moon Water, Phase Shift
B: Dark Side
C: Total Eclipse
D: Lunar Ray

[spare kite]

I like the +30% strike speed node

Or worse case I just take midnight oil from hermes

[plain fossil]

Someone said the strike speed node was bugged and stacked every time u pressed hex

Idk if true i didnt test yet

[random rover]

Why so High on Dark Side? I pretty much think it's awful and only useful for brief invuln. Not sure if that makes it B-Tier alone.

[bleak night]

REAL!?

[spare kite]

????

[meager bramble]

Dark Side always feels super disappointing to me, really not like a super mode at all

[spare kite]

About to see the fastest axe chop if that's real

[random rover]

Yeah, I did a whole write up on it earlier today.

[silent crow]

theres a clip of it somewhere

[magic moss]

yeah i would probably bump it to C but i just wanted something in every tier

[plain fossil]

Idk if true i didnt test yet i dont wanna click phase shift man

[silent crow]

#h2-victory-boasting message

[bleak night]

An experiment for me down the line

[meager bramble]

Eclipse at least feels more fun, I'm not good enough at this game to say confidently whether it's better though

[plain fossil]

Neat, looks extremely buggy lul

[spare kite]

Beautiful

[frosty sparrow]

Just had circe with the hammers that give 2x attack and 50% faster attack combined. Threw on metallic droplet for fun too. Was a bit crazy. The extra 30% damage plus my tendancy to get target lock did get me punished heavilly but the damage was great

[spare kite]

Time to abuse it before it gets patched

[bleak night]

Damn, what attack boon did you have ?

[silent crow]

and the preserve hope texh

[frosty sparrow]

I do think the targeting on the Staff omega attack is a bit off, I out apollo on the attack just to miss less

[plain fossil]

Staff omega attack has some wonky targeting if ur using kbm

[random rover]

I personally think Eclipse is better if you get it to like +8. The 4 second impervious is good, the extra damage is decent. If it weren't so expensive, I don't think there would be a problem.

[silent crow]

it literally doesnt have autoaim i dont know why the game does this

[inland rock]

speaking of axe chops

anybody notice sometimes omega attacks dont charge up while you hold attack

[silent crow]

yea

[magic moss]

its very easy to miss since it takes so long for it to land, its damage is good but not worth the 200 cost especially considering that for most high fear runs its very difficult to get more than 200 mana used in a room unless you have a mana using weapon (eg. pan, charon) and even then by the time you get it available the room is prob already cleared

theres also the fact that many of the other hexes are just so much better like wolf howl is crazy CRAZY strong

[inland rock]

somebody probably already bug reported it

[silent crow]

probably just sticky controls thatll get fixed later

[inland rock]

is wolf howl really that good? just seems like lost dps

[limpid coral]

200 in a big aoe is strong, instant invincibility is strong

[plain fossil]

Wolf howl is ok just as a 1-boon and very good with 2

[magic moss]

for 40 mana you do 200 damage and iframes, its insane at how much value you get

[silent crow]

you can get a bunch of power upgrades for it

[limpid coral]

close the distance to an enemy that's running away from you at 200mph is strong

[frosty sparrow]

Most hexes suck for waht they do. Id take 3 boons over a developed path of stars Eclipse any day. 1000 damage on bosses especailly sucks if the majority of it ends up being tanked by a phase change shield

[random rover]

Then doing it again within three seconds is strong as hell.

[plain fossil]

Like its not the worlds most amazing thing as a 1-boon but its still the hex im happiest to see

[frosty sparrow]

Even with the nerf I like moon water, I use it to farm gold

[plain fossil]

Obviously its a lot better after u get a path of stars

[inland rock]

isnt it 80?

[random rover]

They buffed it

[magic moss]

got buffed to 40 this patch

[random rover]

It's 40, so you can basically use it after every omega attack.

[inland rock]

oh, W

[bleak night]

Superman spam time

[frosty sparrow]

I think a hex like exclipse needs the call treatment. It should charge up in 50 mana burst. you can call it early for less damage or wait for the full 200 for something spectacular

[magic moss]

wolf howl, twilight curse, and night bloom all went from mid/bad to being incredibly broken

[inland rock]

but idk, i dont really like any hex except moon water

[spare kite]

Wolf howl also has fun rare nodes

[inland rock]

as its own build its good ig but i dont see how it can fit onto every build