h2-builds-and-combat

[mystic bison]

Ye I'm pretty sure major Selene stuff is coming next patch

[merry flint]

wen

[sour cape]

Who knows

[mystic bison]

I'm pretty excited for next patch, I want Hestia to be a viable pick

[strange kite]

if next patch doesnt fix selene im gonna learn to mod this game so i can fix selene i swear

[acoustic sphinx]

im down for some boon reworks. I'm mostly okay with them overall but they could be a lot cooler. that duo that spawns shades can go hide in a corner though, idk what that one's deal is

[sour cape]

Hestia just needs a little bit of help

[merry flint]

yeah i got that duo and didn't see any noticable effect

[civic ocean]

shrug

[sour cape]

Like increase scorch application numbers and id think her pretty good

[mystic bison]

She needs quite a bit of help because she is not good enough for primary damage

[strange kite]

i think boon balance isnt thaaat terrible. just hestia scorch and zeus blitz could use work.

[sour cape]

I think shed be fine as a high dmg per hit god but low dmg per time god

[summer seal]

If scorch just did more damage per tick so the DPS is a reliable way to kill outside of AQ that would do a lot

[mystic bison]

I want to run her as I would Dio, I love running DOT builds

[sour cape]

Kinda like Zeus vs Dionysus in H1

[proven orbit]

Zeus blitz felt largely fine to me aside from ICD feeling excessively high

[merry flint]

what is ICD

[strange kite]

icd has no business being so high

[sour cape]

Zeus gave you more dps, Dio gave you more dmg per hit when stacking Hangover

[proven orbit]

Internal cooldown

[strange kite]

zeus blitz is in theory very good if it wasnt so janky

[acoustic sphinx]

something I think really needs to be addressed: zeus gain is untakeable with one of the freest fear mods in the game otherwise

[tulip barn]

Right now I think the Shade duo, Phoenix Skin, and a few others need some reworks

[sour cape]

But today, Poseidon gives you like the same/higher dmg per hit and more dps and that feels bad

[strange kite]

like u wouldnt be able to tell how bad zeus blitz is just by the description

[proven orbit]

I sure couldnt

[sour cape]

Zeus Blitz I've warmed up to

[low bear]

wow the summon ads hex is actually insane with the upgrade that makes them permanent in the encounter until they die

[tulip barn]

Yeah the Zeus regen rarely ever fits. If you're priming, it's awful

[sour cape]

Its alrite as a way to boost dmg of your cast

[mystic bison]

In Hades 1 Zeus and Dio were your 2 alternatives for low dmg high rate of fire weapons

In this game, it's Poseidon and Hestia

[strange kite]

zeus blitz is a %dps scaling buff just saying btw

[sour cape]

Used it for Eos too with Zeus special

[low bear]

I had my summon nearly solo Cerberus lol

[strange kite]

multiplicative with everything else

[tulip barn]

Blitz is honestly not bad, but the problem with it is that getting it online takes a decent chunk of work. The ceiling for blitz damage is insane though

[sour cape]

Yea and in H1, Zeus gave you more upfront dmg and dps while Dio gave you more total dmg and a curse right away

[tulip barn]

It's better for a few things like axe since it hits so hard

[low bear]

Blitz feels like it complements Storm Ring well

[tulip barn]

It does

[low bear]

keep applying blitz faraway while storm ring does nuts damage

[mystic bison]

Tbh jolt was not hard to setup for Zeus either, though yeah Dio gave you a curse immediately

[tulip barn]

Zeus is a god you want a lot of in your build if you want a good blitz run

Second most tier 2s in the game

[mystic bison]

Jolt Zeus is basically Slip Poseidon now

[low bear]

i feel like the blitz chain lightning thing should just be a default for blitz

[sour cape]

Yep thats what it seems best for, as a dmg multiplier to your primary dmg ability

[low bear]

Jolt was way stronger

[tulip barn]

Jolt was lower maintenance

[limpid coral]

After you hit the damage threshold to trigger blitz how long until you can apply it again?

[mystic bison]

It was yeah

[merry flint]

Chain lightning was fun

[mystic bison]

But Jolt and Slip are similar in that they are curses you can unlock after you got the core dmg boon

[tired fulcrum]

Just make zeus legendary make attacks apply jolted instead of being garbofire

[low bear]

I do find myself often taking static shock just because chain lightning feels so good

[tulip barn]

It's not so bad - you're often going to be limited by attack speed than blitz itself

[sour cape]

Static shock is nice

[low bear]

true

[mystic bison]

Static shock is great for magickless runs, it has great synergy with Poseidon too

[low bear]

I miss chain lightning as Zeus's default boon

[sour cape]

Static shock is like weakend H1 Zeus

[low bear]

but having poseidon with chain lightning is great too

AoE for days

[sour cape]

How it has anti Synergy with Ionic again is

[tulip barn]

This is the fastest I've ever gotten Blitz applications

https://youtu.be/ZthLDrFB704?si=La4MraRYdAl92s-s

[low bear]

Ionic is just bad with any sort of priming

[tulip barn]

Yeah it nukes your mana

[low bear]

Ionic definitley needs a buff or rework

[tulip barn]

I'd take a rework

[mystic bison]

Ionic is just bad in general, the gain rate itself is not good enough to compensate for crippling your mana reserves

[low bear]

personally make the mana gain constant, and rarity/poms make the priming% smaller

[tulip barn]

Hearth gain is just always better. The health is way less of a problem

[low bear]

like constant 8-10 mana/second or something

too bad Hestia boons are ehh

[sour cape]

Yea Hearth Gain is significantly more usable even though the hp loss hurts

[tulip barn]

They are on a lot of weapons, yeah. She has 6 tier 2s

[low bear]

even Scalding Vapor is kinda ehh

[mystic bison]

Ionic should have like near instant regeneration for the amount it lowers your mana

So it would be similar to Smoldering Air from Hades 1

Hearth gain is a top 3 gain boon imo

[low bear]

it's top 2 for me behind Born Gain

[mystic bison]

Hera, Posedion and Hestia top 3 gain boons

[sour cape]

Maybe Ionic Gain could be reworked to gaining mana for keeping enemies in Cast

[civic ocean]

I think Ionic Gain being bad is fine given how stupid good everything else about Zeus is, and also y'all are hard sleeping on Hestia. She's extremely consistent.

[tulip barn]

Apollo is fine. Bonus points for Apollo regen on local climate 😎

[low bear]

that would just be better Apollo I feel

[sour cape]

I feel like no boon should just be unusably bad in Hades

[civic ocean]

Ionic gain is not unusably bad

[mystic bison]

Dmg wise or gain wise for Hestia? Because dmg wise, she is not good enough to be primary dmg

[sour cape]

Its not even a case of well, its annoying to use like Hephaestus or Demeter, it often bricks your build 💀

[civic ocean]

You all just think Ionic Gain is unusably bad because the meta tells you to take Vow of Arrogance. The average player can take and win with Ionic Gain on low or no fear without any trouble

[tulip barn]

Depends. She needs big things to get going like the legendary or fire extinguisher. The Hestia Hera duo is actually nutty

[low bear]

well yeah, Ionic is really bad at high fear, Ionic is decent/good at low fear pretty much

[tulip barn]

But she is too weak all around I think

[mystic bison]

Ionic should have like +20 base regen for how much it cripples your mana, I say this again - it should be like Smoldering Air

[acoustic sphinx]

fluid gain is pretty sick with the right weapons. you can get a nice feedback loop going with it

[sour cape]

The average player will prob then take a mana reserve boon, brick their build, and conclude that they shpuld never click Ionic

[limpid coral]

before i won for the first time i tried ionic gain and then some of the stuff that primes mana and realized why would I ever pick this when priming mana is strong

[strange kite]

ionic gain is horrible

[civic ocean]

Why would they do that, can the average player not read

[strange kite]

it’s abysmally bad

[sour cape]

Which is the correct conclusion to make

[tulip barn]

This happened to me

[limpid coral]

I was not sure whether the -70% or the priming applied first

[sour cape]

Literally 2 messages above you

[low bear]

how it interacts with priming isn't really clear

[civic ocean]

Literally my first clear was ionic

Do we want to keep doing anecdotes

[ionic moon]

if they way increased the mana regen on ionic, it would at least make it the tradeoff more interesting

[tulip barn]

Yeah ionic is kinda only good for specific setups and it never feels better than any other regen except Demeter or Aphro sometimes

[mystic bison]

Even outside of priming, Ionic Gain just by itself I don't think is good enough

[low bear]

so if you had static shock and clicked ionic, you'd be ripped

[strange kite]

dood i cleared using a scorch torch melinoe build with no aq

it was baaaad.

[low bear]

but yes low fear Ionic is good without priming

[mystic bison]

Yes the total mana loss can be the same, but the base regen should be upped to like +20

[strange kite]

the mana regen should just be instant

[civic ocean]

Lmao

[strange kite]

like literally it would make it balanced

[low bear]

at high fear when you have a lot of priming + taking boons that prime stuff (trusty shield), it bricks you

[mystic bison]

It should be near instant, like Smoldering Air, and it's pretty clear Smoldering Air was their inspiration for Ionic Gain

[civic ocean]

You really will not rest until this game beats itself for you huh

[strange kite]

cuz u cant regen during channeling so ur forced to stop using mana to get it regened

[low bear]

just take born gain I guess

[strange kite]

ionic gain wouldnt be useable unless it was instant regen

[civic ocean]

Bet?

[low bear]

then ionic would be too OP

[strange kite]

just like how demeter isnt useable without being instant. u know this i know this everybody knows this

[strange kite]

how would it be op? u can fire like 2 omegas max maybe then u have to wait to regen

[civic ocean]

How many 32 wins with ionic do I need in the next 72 hours to get you to stop posting

[strange kite]

and it forces u to avoid priming too much or else u cant use mana at all

[mystic bison]

I don't think it would be op, near instant regen is a good tradeoff for how much it lowers your total mana

[queen charm]

I like the idea of ionic gain but if I take it I cant take any 'prime' boons or anything that increases the magick costs of my stuff

[strange kite]

0 amount of wins will convince me that ionic gain is good

[civic ocean]

Skill issue ig

[limpid coral]

playable or good?

[strange kite]

u clearly dont understand why instant regen isnt op

[knotty fulcrum]

you really play that?

[mystic bison]

Do the prime values remain the same when you take Ionic Gain or are they lowered accordingly to the % Ionic Gain lowers your total mana?

[strange kite]

instant regen is still just worse than born gain

[rare brook]

Not sure if everyone knows about it, but in case of Momus staff - if you combine hammer that doubles attacks and Apollo legendary boon, then omega attacks are doubled as intended. Not sure about omega specials if you take hammer for two special attacks

[civic ocean]

Not currently but I could pretty easily just turn off arrogance and win with ionic yes

[knotty fulcrum]

idk to me it seems most of the others are just better in almost any situation

[civic ocean]

Ionic Gain has next to no impact on Storm Ring builds

It's exactly what you need

[knotty fulcrum]

that's true yeah

[mystic bison]

Anyone?

[queen charm]

unless you get torrential downpour

[limpid coral]

but why would you do that when you could take arrogance instead of 3/4 other curse points?

[knotty fulcrum]

but on omega cast builds anything works really

[civic ocean]

The same

[mystic bison]

That's not very fair

[ionic moon]

honestly if you look at things like born gain, ionic, vow of panic/arrogance, unseen arcana, etc... it seems clear that SGG hasn't dialed in how valuable they want mana to be

[civic ocean]

It does not interact well with Arrogance

But it is absolutely viable at 32 do not get it twisted

[mystic bison]

Prime values should def be lowered for Ionic Gain

[strange kite]

okay @civic ocean if ionic gain was instant regen would u take it over hestia? or poseidon on a weapon that can use bubbles?

like think about it

[limpid coral]

Viable sure but like why would I want to play that when I could click other things and have a better time

[queen charm]

I probably would, yeah

[civic ocean]

If Ionic Gain was instant regen it would be broken and I would like some challenge to remain in my roguelike

[mystic bison]

With higher regen Ionic Gain would be a great pick

[strange kite]

why would it be broken?

[queen charm]

instant Ionic over pos and hestia gains? yeah actually

[strange kite]

i literally dont understand why ionic gain instant regen makes u think it would be broken

[limpid coral]

Instant = do a charge attack, do something else, do a charge attack, repeat

[strange kite]

yes exactly

[mystic bison]

It shouldn't be instant but it should be very fast

[merry flint]

well born gain is busted

[midnight bay]

damn new moros so op 💀

[limpid coral]

Which is like born gain

[ionic moon]

yeah and maybe a nice combo with keen intuition from hera

[strange kite]

no born gain is much better than infinite regen

[merry flint]

and that is instant

[strange kite]

born gain isnt regen its actually just raising ur mana cap to insanity

[civic ocean]

You don't understand because you haven't actually tried to make it work

You just look at something that doesn't fit your narrow view of the most likely thing to win the game for you and discard it outright

[strange kite]

theres a difference between born gain and regen

ionic gain being instant would actually finally be good considering all the baggage it involves

[limpid coral]

i mean born gain you get to use charge attacks with no delay but if it were instant its not much of a delay

[strange kite]

including forcing u to respect arrogance, taking more mana and not using some primes

[queen charm]

hell, instant Ionic would mean youd mostly stay at 100% magick, making that Hera boon that gives you omega damage increases at 100% better

[strange kite]

yeah that would be cool wouldnt it?

[civic ocean]

I don't want ionic gain to be competitive with current born gain

I do not want scorch to be competitive with current poseidon

I want my decisions to be interesting and meaningful not just changing the colour of my steamroller

[queen charm]

might be busted

[strange kite]

not really

it would be a neat combo but why would it be busted?

[mystic bison]

Ionic Gain is the Smoldering Air of this game so I expect it to play like that

That would make it a viable pick in my opinion

[strange kite]

okay are we clear that infinite regen is not infinite mana? like im just wondering if people here know what i mean by instant

there is a difference between those two things

[queen charm]

say you got rare Keen Intuition-that's a 45% damage increase to omegas..just thinking about this with something like Storm Ring

[civic ocean]

yes we all understand the very basic mechanics of how regen works, we just know how to space our rotations in a way where it doesn't matter nearly as much

[merry flint]

wow the numbers on ionic gain suck

[strange kite]

sure and if ionic gain made u have to space ur rotation then why would it be an issue?

[merry flint]

i didn't compare them earlier but its like half of hearth gain lmao

[merry flint]

we already do that so having infinite regen would be equivalent to born gain

[strange kite]

like hearth gain u can space ur rotation and still get a ton of value but u also have the option of chaining together omega on heart gain

[civic ocean]

It would be better because no priming, you'd just have to run a build with a low cost rotation like people already do

[strange kite]

yeah why cant ionic be bis for those low mana cost builds like perse zeus cast?

i dont see the issue

[civic ocean]

It already is TBH?

Unless you take Arrogance

[strange kite]

i disgaree because of priming

[queen charm]

omega casts are 15 mana, you can probably already do it

[merry flint]

easy fix would be lower the mana cut and include priming in it too

[queen charm]

unless youre using something like torrential downpour

[sour cape]

What if Ionic Gain worked like Persephone? Dealing dmg with Omega casts triggers mana regen?

[queen charm]

but if youre using downpour you cant take Ionic so it still isnt an issue

[arctic sage]

Can you recommend a build for the black flames weapon?

[civic ocean]

I mean I think the obvious answer here is that Vow of Arrogance should just be 1 fear like Panic is

[strange kite]

i mean u say it would break the game but i dont think it would break the game. it would just be strong

[arctic sage]

Can you recommend a build for the black Can you recommend a build for the black flames weapon?

[merry flint]

what

[strange kite]

like clearly we have a difference in opinion of whats broken and whats simply strong

[arctic sage]

umbral flames *

[sour cape]

+4 is prob too much but its interesting that it makes you consider whether an epic or duo is really worth it or not

and makes mana pots actually valuable

[arctic sage]

Can you recommend a build for the black Can you recommend a build for the black flames weapon?

[limpid coral]

ya just the fact that arrogance is 4 curse points and it's not like i'm always gonna be offered ionic gain makes me always click arrogance and never click ionic gain :/

[civic ocean]

I think it is currently defining the meta around stuff like Ionic Gain and Excellence and Divinity that people are not willing to turn it off to run those things in builds because it provides Fear but are obviously willing to turn off Vow of Panic to do the same for other build options

[arctic sage]

Can you recommend a build for the black Can you recommend a build for the black flames weapon? guys pls

[sour cape]

Thats fair yea

[strange kite]

panic being 1 heat is insane

[limpid coral]

if you're gonna spam then spam properly 💀

[silent crow]

should those vows even exist

[sour cape]

Panic is like too debilitating for 1 fear for many weapons

But at least major offender Momus is gone

[barren juniper]

Holy moly, guy stop spamming. Aspect of Moros if you have it. Aphrodite attack, Hera Special, Poseidon, Hera, or Hestia Gain. Use Omega Special then spam attack.

[sour cape]

to allow it to go higher in fear

[limpid coral]

i had good success with eos just now, poseidon strike helped clear the first couple areas and hera special is very strong later

[civic ocean]

Like nobody is out here saying Omega Attacks are underpowered trash that needs to be buffed because they don't work with Vow of Panic, and that's because it isn't worth running Vow of Panic. An easy way to change that dynamic for stuff around Arrogance is to make Arrogance worth 1 or 2 fear instead of 4 so those builds feel way less bad to play because you can turn the vow off.

[tired fulcrum]

Poseidon on 200 damage fall guy kinda sus

[limpid coral]

Its not super great but it gets through the early game well enough

[merry flint]

okay so reworked weapons are Circe, Momus, Eos, Mel Axe, Thanatos, Perse right

[limpid coral]

sounds right

[civic ocean]

all flames are reworked too

specials weaker, attacks faster and stronger across the board

[merry flint]

yeah feels good

[small hawk]

same with all staves 🤔

[civic ocean]

yes

[queen charm]

axe omega special is much faster, so Charon got a buff too

[proven orbit]

Tough choices
To (eventually) do all aspects on 32 fear first, or to keep pushing moros 💀 torches

[barren juniper]

Use torches while they're still cracked.

[silent crow]

cant wait for them to reduce torch special damage next patch agaon

[low bear]

ironically old Eos hammer feels bad for Eos now

[proven orbit]

That's part of reason why I don't wanna because getting used to too good things

[knotty fulcrum]

wait is moros good?

[low bear]

unless you go melee range I guess

[barren juniper]

It's the attack damage that's a problem for Moros right now. The explosions seem to have a built in 1.5x damage multiplier along with the +60% from a level V aspect.

[low bear]

I don't think torches are cracked from my experience so far, I'm still far more comfortable with other weapons tho could be skill issue

[silent crow]

yes its busted

[barren juniper]

Def a skill issue haha

[knotty fulcrum]

wtf since when. it's the last aspect I have to upgrade so I never played with it

[tired fulcrum]

Moros does pretty insane damage if you blow up omega attacks

[low bear]

Moros has been fixed since the patch

[barren juniper]

If you're talking about the patch on 4 June, they more than doubled Moros DPS with torch attacks going from 10 15 to 20 damage per hit and increased attack rate on omega attack.

[tired fulcrum]

It was 15 pre patch

[knotty fulcrum]

how do you play moros tho? you cast omega special and do normal attacks?

[silent crow]

yes

[sour cape]

Omega special, then Omega attack

[tired fulcrum]

Also think they reduced the omega attack power form 50 to 40

[civic ocean]

They did yeah

[tired fulcrum]

The omega special lasts long enough for like half your attacks to be omegas

[silent crow]

theres another way to play it by fiddling with the normal special and directions and whatever but that seems hard

[long summit]

How good do people think moros is rn?

[knotty fulcrum]

is aphro good on it or is it not clost enough?

[silent crow]

really good

[barren juniper]

Better than Pan and old Momos IMO.

[civic ocean]

The attack speed increase was the big deal

Moros is quite good if you can master it I think, a lot of potential beyond just onega spam but that is also strong

[queen charm]

oh damn

[long summit]

Also what are people fav builds w moros? I asked in here yesterday and ppl said zeus special

[long summit]

Crazy if true

[barren juniper]

I prefer Hera special and Aphro attack.

[silent crow]

thats about it yeah just throw a % based god on attack

[queen charm]

Morosheads eating

[long summit]

Gotchu

On higher heats unless I get cast time reduction from chaos moros feels like it room clears for free but the chronos fight feels sus w moros

[silent crow]

hammer choices are honestly the most defining part of a moros run imo

[queen charm]

I like Zeus special and Hera attack

[timber pawn]

Honestly the best thing that happened to moros is the duration of the omega special got increased, I believe

[long summit]

@silent crow yeah thats what i been feeling like

[sour cape]

and being able to channel while moving

[barren juniper]

Zeus special still doesn't trigger as frequently as it should and it doesn't count as a debuff for its own damage.

[long summit]

What are peoples fav moros hammers to make sure im correct w my opinions

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah channeling the omega special is kinda unsafe with fo2 chronos

[civic ocean]

Biggest thing that stands out to me is that omega attacks are 40 and huntress regular attacks are 30

[barren juniper]

+10 attack power and knockback on attacks.

[civic ocean]

Seems like a panic angle

[timber pawn]

Ah, ya thats... Idk is that double?

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah like prepatch non mel omega special lasted like what 3 seconds?

[silent crow]

i like faster omega special channel but its really up to oreference

[long summit]

Dam i been avoiding cause i assumed itd mess up the stunlock ill try next time

Yeah clean and triple helix felt good when i tried

[silent crow]

the bombs stunlock you'll be ok

[civic ocean]

It's double but it's a small increase over Huntress

So I think if you can lock in using the regular special to detonate bombs then it becomes quite good with panic

[long summit]

On higher heats i liked demeter special aphro attack

[tired fulcrum]

I would be nice if they gave us the full patch notes

[barren juniper]

Triple helix is great too, but if you look at your damage recap, attacks will be doing the most work by far.

[long summit]

Yeah^^

[tired fulcrum]

Regular special is so bad at it tho

[long summit]

I was told in here to take zeus special and pom the special for moros yesterday but after 1 run i saw attack was doing a ton more of the damage

[merry flint]

moros shots collide with each other which is lame and not fun

[civic ocean]

Is it? Something to practice I think

[timber pawn]

Afaik it's sort of by design because they want to see what people feel/see as different

Especially during EA

[silent crow]

pomming atk doesnt give u that much dmg

its like 10% for the first pom and then it starts diminishing

[barren juniper]

Blitz is super trash since it still has a cooldown. Poms don't give much in this game compared to hades 1 either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFybZEkFQBM
I made this vid a while ago, but they haven't updated the mechanics yet.

[long summit]

If i had aphro attack demeter special would I be better off pomming aphro once or twice then demeter after?

[civic ocean]

Heh I am going in a super diff direction on Moros that's fun

[long summit]

Gotchu, i figured blitz was kinda whatever

[long summit]

Lowkey what r u on im just fiending more moros ideas

[tired fulcrum]

If you dont have your omega special up most of your attacks are wasted since they clump up and over kill especially if youre trying to omega attack

[merry flint]

new torches feel great

doing mel torches unironically

[barren juniper]

Another interesting idea for Wands is Demeter on Special to help with the lack of hitstun. I prefer Hera though for the Hitch.

[civic ocean]

I'm doing panic, high mobility, changing angle to prevent clumping of shots, special once just to clear stuff

Going triple fire slow cooker, not sure on 4th god for the attack yet. Could be aph, could be hera, could be demeter

[tired fulcrum]

Are you doing commotion 3 td3 though

[strange kite]

moros is good panic weapon?

[tired fulcrum]

Im doubtful

[civic ocean]

Currently it's at 22 because Moros isn't upgraded past rank 1 and I'm doing a volume challenge but I intend to take it as high as 40 if I can

Huntress regular attack is 30 and omega attack is 40

[strange kite]

after momus i think we need more manaless panic weapons

[spare kite]

@empty musk born gain works even if you don't have the current mana to cast it

It'll just refill anyways

[barren juniper]

Born Gain, but I prefer Mel Skull for Panic.

[civic ocean]

Moros attack is like a prime candidate for Slow Cooker I feel, since it's high attack speed and then the power should also help the explosions

[strange kite]

mel skull doesnt read amazing to me but may just be dumb. how do u play mel skull?

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1051942150025269309/1247682586570919966/Hades_II_2024-06-04_15-43-42.mp4?ex=6662e4b5&is=66619335&hm=ca7d435f135733e025c826b5990f5cc072294d55161ed7ff20f24e447af0d32d& it breaks in room one for some reason

[strange kite]

shoot the skulls and spam normal specials?

[silent crow]

i just throw the skulls and omega special

[spare kite]

Lmfao

[silent crow]

sometimes ill do an omega attack build where i just do the same thing but with omega attacks

[civic ocean]

Mel skulls deal thicc dmg with huntress and panic on

[barren juniper]

Just kind of annoying going out of the way for Hestia IMO. Aphro's power and/or the hammer are usually sufficient.

[strange kite]

hera special to get access to born gain or aphro special to get max damage?

[civic ocean]

Probably I just like looking at different builds

[barren juniper]

Hera IMO. Attacks do more damage anyways. If you're going Aphro Special, just use Mel Torches IMO.

[empty musk]

Thx, didn't realize it refills on a failed channel. Hope they make it work the same for silver wheel

[strange kite]

oh u use attack on mel skull?

and like just pick up and spam the attack or like attack attack omega attack?

[sour cape]

Spam attack!

[barren juniper]

I thought you were talking about Torches. You should definitely be using attacks with Mel Skull. I prefer to just spam them since there's a hammer for omega attack triggers.

Spamming attack gets you the full damage bonus on each hit as well. Gets nasty with the +2 shells hammer.

Guys look, I was the avatar https://i.imgur.com/hD2xn64.jpeg

[tired fulcrum]

Soooo

[spare kite]

Beeg chant

[tired fulcrum]

Moros omega attack explosions are affected by huntress

[surreal willow]

havent played since launch week. Did the changes make umbral any good or are they still goofy?

[spare kite]

Oh c'mon

[civic ocean]

Ayyyy lmao

[spare kite]

Has that always been a thing

[queen charm]

lol

[polar aspen]

Just got around to play the new update
Gotta say, Eos is amazing
It single handedly made the weapon I liked the least to one I can see myself playing the nectar out of

[barren juniper]

They're quite good, especially Moros. I'm still miffed that specials don't have hitstun or work properly with Poseidon, though. I wanna be a beyblade 😔

[surreal willow]

oh torches are still the only weapon in the game that's special can't stun?

[rare brook]

What's with this Moros aspect and why it's so good?

[surreal willow]

such a weird decision

[tired fulcrum]

Idk. Its 160 on skelly without huntress and 210 with huntress

[barren juniper]

You can make attacks explode. This is at least 2.5x DPS with attacks since the main hit and the explosion can both damage the same enemy and explosions have a big damage boost.

[rare brook]

I don't know how to play well with torches, needs to get used to it

I myself like staff and daggers

[barren juniper]

Use omega special. Move into melee range. Spam attack.

[polar aspen]

I mainly like Moros because I can have stuff like Zeus cast and make it deal insane damage because the cast stays around for ages
Never really do anything more with it than that

[barren juniper]

I think you're thinking of Charon Axe.

[polar aspen]

Ah, yes, sorry
My bad 😖

[wild pine]

I continue to rack up no-fury no-desperation 32 Eris kills. Now done with Moros, Thanatos, Pan, Persephone, and Mel Torches. Artemis probably next.

Wolf Howl is hilariously busted with Night, omg.

[silent crow]

wtf

[wild pine]

Honestly you could probably do a wolf-howl-only run.

[silent crow]

use the goddamn hex recharge arcana 😭

[barren juniper]

Definitely a bug, but probably not that impactful. Omega attacks always end up being a small percentage of my damage total unless I've got a bunch of channel speed increases. NVM. I thought you meant the Moon. This should be fine since I believe that damage increase from Huntress is cumulative with increases from boons rather than multiplicative.

[spare kite]

What's the cheapest you can get wolf howl

[wild pine]

It's really hard to be sure what the actual cap is, because the upgrade tree randomizes itself every time. But the base cost is 40 magic and I've definitely gotten at least 3 Alertness nodes online to reduce that to 25. Or less with the Hermes hex accelerator.

But honestly, below 25, who even cares? Lots of ways to spend that much on one move.

[tired fulcrum]

I mean the omega special duration is long enough for slightly more than third of your attacks to be omegas

[wild pine]

On my most recent Pan run I got the Hestia boon that adds a fireball to omega spesh, so a single dagger spray recharged my double-jump invulnerability hex.

[sour cape]

So is Daybreaker explosion 😔

[tired fulcrum]

I wonder if the damage inflicted stat categorizes omega explosions as regular attack damage since its affected by huntress

[sour cape]

But no one cares about Eos anymore 😂

[barren juniper]

Sure, but most enemies and boss phases don't last that long. Kind of hard to attack for that full duration as well without having to dodge.

[wild pine]

If the code is such that Is.Omega is a property that has to be manually set I can easily believe that they forgot.

[tired fulcrum]

You keep channeling while you dodge tho

[wild pine]

Selene Keepsake legitimately stonks now too

[barren juniper]

Just one dash isn't sufficient to avoid every attack, especially with the speed heat.

[timber pawn]

Disagree generally

One dash is enough to dodge 3 back to back chronos swings at 40%

[tired fulcrum]

Idk a lot of the time it is enough

[timber pawn]

Which, while not every attack feels like a good benchmark

[silent crow]

you can also strafe while attacking

[barren juniper]

Skill issue on my end, I guess. I haven't been able to dodge while keeping the Torch channel going and need to sprint against Sirens, Cerb, and Chronos.

[silent crow]

surprisingly useful especially if you get base movespeed buffs

[tired fulcrum]

Cerb slams can just be iframed

[sour cape]

Not enough to iframe Root stalker spray 😔😔

[tired fulcrum]

Chronos triple dashes can also just be dashed

[tired fulcrum]

i hate that guy

[timber pawn]

I've gotten too used to evaporating stuff while chasing speed

I'm gonna get my butt kicked if I go back to 32

[peak wasp]

what is the fast weapon now

[barren juniper]

1 heat fun runs are where it's at IMO. I'm gonna wait until the game's more settled to get back on high heat.

[proven orbit]

what's the hardest fear to run at 1 fear? timer?

[sour cape]

2 heat with old forsaking 🙏

[timber pawn]

Rebuke lol

[spare kite]

No way

[silent crow]

panic

[sour cape]

Oh ummm for 1 heat prob Panic 💀

[sly orbit]

I read the patch notes but didn't see, does anyone know if Aphrodite Strike was nerfed? I logged back into my already progressed run and it looks lower than before.

[sour cape]

What does rebuke do?

[silent crow]

nblue hsield

[proven orbit]

Panic is pretty traumatizing, though it doesn't apply to all builds so

[barren juniper]

Timer is meaningless at 1 fear most of the time. Unless you're a super slow player or can't get it together in the surface zone 1, 9 minutes is plenty of time.

[sour cape]

Ohhh yea 1 blue shield is pretty annoying

[spare kite]

80%/100%/120% still no? (Idk heroic)

[sour cape]

Specially at 1 fear, Timers the most free since it majority of time will just do nothing

[sly orbit]

It's epic LVL3 so maybe that is right? 160%. So from lvl 1 to 3 120% to 160%? some reason I thought that was higher but that sounds correct

[barren juniper]

Yup, 25% for the first pom, 15% for the next.

[sly orbit]

Awesome, thank you guys @spare kite @barren juniper !~

[steel sequoia]

bruh i got selene 3 times in a row came on

[obtuse cape]

She's put a Hex on you~

[mystic bison]

Reroll door

[proven orbit]

Triple deadweight!-

that's what hecate says, right?

[regal talon]

for momus, im having a hard time deciding for aphro attack or hera attack? which is better?

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1248395424273010811/Screenshot_225.png?ex=66638257&is=666230d7&hm=9984a4a2ed4b7a30c42f955d648c31f211ca1e8403429feabf85b386d8bba6b3& not even close

I dont think aphro attack works really well with the turret

[timber pawn]

The only hp you need is the last one

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226642940764487690/1248395424809750528/Screenshot_226.png?ex=66638257&is=666230d7&hm=1239d1e3f6a9d5135e2f3f762b55b735c742a7ed195829f0b59a45d3aec4de4d& commotion 3 cp2 btw, moros is fast af

[merry flint]

new torches feel good

[proven orbit]

bruh how yall clearing rooms so fast? I'm jealous

[obtuse cape]

Unless you have Island Getaway, The best options are normall Hera, Spiteful Strength, or Exceptional Talent

[barren juniper]

Aphro for Raw DPS, Hera for clear, bosses with adds/Sirens, and getting an extra curse. I prefer Hera for attacks since the damage difference isn't as big as it is for specials.

[tired fulcrum]

moros does 10 billion damage

[proven orbit]

I do suppose I was 7 minutes prebuff so it'd be like 5-6 post, but still

[obtuse cape]

Leaden Attack is such a fun hammer though

If I get it I just switch to Poseidon and play pinball with the rooms

If you corner an enemy with Moros and Leaden Attack/Wave Strike, you just stunlock things into the wall

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1248396705091813516/Hades_II_2024-06-06_14-47-43.mp4?ex=66638388&is=66623208&hm=d57a2f06989180ad0488597ed4d94d4054d4ec9c0f84a5d8285c4f7765682076& huntress be like

[proven orbit]

Is this a hammer'ed firerate? Wh-

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah +20% from a hammer but is fast af even without one

[proven orbit]

Ok like torches were pretty bad but they weren't THAT bad, such a big buff

[barren juniper]

You can get 20% from hammer and 20% from Hermes. It's disgusting.

[obtuse cape]

Eos and Moros are so strong now

[proven orbit]

At this point someone has gotta theorycraft a 55F somehow

[tired fulcrum]

You can get even more from hermes if you get both midnight oil and swift strike

[timber pawn]

Someone's done it by reloading every room till they clear

[obtuse cape]

Not to mention you can get even more if you also get the Phase Shift buff that gives attack speed while using it

[timber pawn]

Not torches though afaik, think it was staff

[barren juniper]

I high key forgot Midnight Oil existed since I haven't taken a hex in ages.

[proven orbit]

Yeah I meant with torches specifically

[tired fulcrum]

I got hex start so

[proven orbit]

momus staff sure was momus staff

[obtuse cape]

With new patches, the best Aspects atm I believe are

Momus
Moros
Pan
Eos
Melinoe Axe

[barren juniper]

Melinoe Axe is a controversial one haha.

[peak wasp]

what is the new momus build

[obtuse cape]

Melinoe Axe is just overwhelming strong purely for the Hell Splitter builds

[tired fulcrum]

Than is better for hellsplitter now

+35 power on a 300 base power move is whatever

[barren juniper]

Yeah, that's like 11%. 30% attack speed crushes that.

[obtuse cape]

Thanatos is so strong now tho

[tired fulcrum]

Mel axe is super efficient with the dashstrike hammer

[obtuse cape]

If you get all the attack speed buffs it attacks faster than the staff

[barren juniper]

Yeah, that's what I'd go for. It's like the Hades 1 sword at that point.

[obtuse cape]

Dashing Heave is so OP

Heroic Flutter Strike + Artemis on it let's you hit for I think 1500 per dash

before crits

[proven orbit]

Base dashing heave on mel axe should be (45+35)x3=240 damage, no?

then aphro roughly doubling that ofc

[obtuse cape]

That isn't counting Arcana buffs too.

[proven orbit]

Well, yeah you could add huntress and origination for about 816 dmg total

[barren juniper]

Are those multiplicative now? The math ain't mathin otherwise.

[obtuse cape]

Hades math has always been multiplicative as far as I know

[barren juniper]

Nah, it's literally always been additive, even in Hades 1.

[proven orbit]

damage buffs are additive, but multiply base damage

[spare kite]

Is additive on pretty much everything

[modern wadi]

i wanna save different arcane loadouts

[obtuse cape]

I've definitely seen some people test Dodge math where they try to test it and the math turned out multiplicative though I thought

[proven orbit]

in this case, I calced 240 x (1 + 1.4 heroic aphro attack I believe? + 0.5 huntress + 0.5 origination) = 240 x 3.4 = 816

[barren juniper]

That's the exception since you could get 100% dodge chance too easily otherwise. We're talking about damage.

[spare kite]

Dodge was additive lmao

[barren juniper]

Oh, that tracks. I thought you meant huntress and origination were somehow adding another 816 damage to whatever was calculated earlier.

[obtuse cape]

Base Heroic Aphro attack is 140, ye.

Heroic Aphro attack starts to diminishing return around 215% If I remember right.

[spare kite]

And yes 100% dodge was possible

[proven orbit]

Ah, yeah my bad on the phrasing

[barren juniper]

Good catch. I found a clip. https://clips.twitch.tv/KitschySpikyTomatoSpicyBoy

[spare kite]

Beautiful

[obtuse cape]

I'm wrong and what I saw was wrong then, good to know.

[low bear]

Okay yeah Moros is insane bow

[mystic bison]

I rly like Thanatos now

I'm getting better at Axe tech frfr

[barren juniper]

Possessed Array's fun
https://i.imgur.com/Wz42RLS.jpeg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmp-uzr9R_g

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1248408972495421440/Snipe.mp4?ex=66638ef5&is=66623d75&hm=ebfbd4a9105efbdff54fcc2e62046a1593412a18d5979b28301e992377d2a86a& lmao

[tired fulcrum]

Ephyra moment

[grizzled timber]

uh surely no atk/special boon chronos will be fine right (whiffed the hera/heph duo) https://imgur.com/a/bT9leMt

[proven orbit]

Selene had a really big beef for you rerolling

[zenith bolt]

ephyra hub is truly the most miserable place

[barren juniper]

Unfort. You could've just face tanked with the DPS from the duo and your remaining HP/DD.

They should really bring purging pools back if they're gonna make boons like that.

[timber pawn]

Been there. Not ideal haha

[grizzled timber]

update: it worked out incredibly well? lmao didnt even waste a dd and had no 2nd status for origination https://imgur.com/IULk0MS

[sudden coyote]

How many encounters does the experimental hammer last for at max?

[barren juniper]

20

[sudden coyote]

Is that 2 areas worth?

[timber pawn]

Moros might be a hair overtuned lol

[barren juniper]

Encounters are specifically areas with enemies, so it depends on how you path. If you take it in Fields then you can keep the hammer through Chronos with rooms to spare.

[proven orbit]

If you pick it in fields it should last till tartarus end

[grizzled timber]

that begs the question, do atk/special boons even affect the moros blast?

[mystic bison]

Best equipped before Fields

[timber pawn]

They do, ya

[proven orbit]

I don't see why they shouldn't

What you do need to know though is that blast damage bonus is additive

[plain fossil]

Moros blast is an attack its affected by ur attack boons

[timber pawn]

*I haven't technically verified this but I'm like 98% sure

[grizzled timber]

which one, the atk? the color doesnt change so i couldnt tell

[mystic bison]

F*ck it, I'm gonna do AQ Scorch Thanatos

[plain fossil]

Ol but why

[mystic bison]

Cuz Storm Ring works well on it, giving me Access to Zeus and Air, and attacks are fast enough to apply Scorch reliably

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1248411219728007198/image.png?ex=6663910d&is=66623f8d&hm=8d001eb30cec24a4edf927ffa02816c437338c4280cf3b64b4c071ca640eeaea& saw heph c2 so why not

[plain fossil]

20 scorch baseline on 40/80 damage swings bit sad but hey ive heard worse ideas in this channel

Lmk how it goes

[mystic bison]

I just wanna try it see how it works out

[barren juniper]

Might as well just do Poseidon attack or anyone else. Scorch DPS is mid even with Air Quality. Applying faster doesn't change the dps :\

[proven orbit]

For what its worth, when I had default skulls with scorch I felt like zdps

so on axe it's probably worse

[mystic bison]

Basically the plan is, apply Storm Ring and just hit them with attack over and over

And if I get the attack speed hammer, even better

[plain fossil]

Well for all of a1 he is zeus cast build

And zeus cast build is fine in a1 u just need some way to do damage after that

[proven orbit]

Yeah, fair enough

[sudden coyote]

Do god appearance keepsakes still increase a chance of the specific boon appearing even after you rarify one

[barren juniper]

Scorch ain't doing damage though haha, but more evidence that Scorch is weak is always good. I'd personally go with Hera to fix the single target nature of Zeus cast.

[plain fossil]

AQ scorch does ok damage for a build that lets u run in circles fwiw

Not as much damage while running in circles as my new brother aspect of momus, but still ok

[mystic bison]

I rly enjoy the dot playstyle, can't wait for the Hestia buff

[ionic moon]

only increases the chance of finding one

[plain fossil]

Play momus im now team momus

Momus is dot in disguise

[mystic bison]

I only ran it once and I had a bad experience cause I mistakenly thought the gimmick only worked with the Omega Special

But I'll run it again when it comes up on grave thirst next

[barren juniper]

Not really, given you still need to apply enough scorch to deal the damage and the scorch values are lower than Poseidon and %damage buffs. It's like deal 300 damage immediately and kill the enemy vs deal 300 damage over a few seconds. It'd be different if scorch was applying substantially higher values baseline.

[plain fossil]

Thats the case against AQ no scorch

AQ scorch does a lot more damage per hit than poseidon etc because AQ is a 6x dps multi

It doesnt change scorch tickrate it just makes all the scorch lose 5 per tick and do 30

[barren juniper]

So if you put on 30 scorch with AQ is it doing 30 damage total or 180?

[plain fossil]

Er not 6x 5x

[hoary quiver]

Does getting chronos to phase 2 count as "no enemies remaining" for moros' keepsake?

[plain fossil]

Uh its more like 140 or something i messed up my math the first time but basically the second one

[sour cape]

Not to mention when a boss phases with tons of Scorch stacks and they all get wasted 😭😭

But still think biggest issue is the base Scorch moves not even giving that much scorch

[barren juniper]

That still sounds quite weak given you need at least 5 boons to get the setup going. In the context of the Zeus Cast Thanatos Axe build, Hera on attack is one boon for substantially improved room clear and group damage. I'd go for Funeral Pyre for the scorch application instead of rushing it in the 2nd biome.

[sour cape]

You need to invest so mucy just to get Scorch up to a decent baseline

Like need both more ways to faster apply Scorch and Scorch dps once you do

[sour cape]

Why not Eos then 👀👀

Eos is also summon ghost and it clears enemies wgile you dodgr around

[cursive oyster]

but like with eos you have to play the game

/j

[plain fossil]

i got no problem with funeral pyre/thermal dynamics/alternative ways to set up scorch, if u scroll up u can see im skeptical of this axe hit idea

im just sayin ur understanding of the mechanics needed some updating thats all

[plain fossil]

this happens all the time on eris u soot sprint and she gets 500 scorch stacks then she phases and u lose all ur damage

fortunately then u soot sprint again lul

[golden adder]

is there a way to force end your axe combos so you dont get the third hit?
special?

[weak cosmos]

Yo. The skull hammer that fires omega attack for free on picking up skulls works with appollo legendary and it is crazy good

[plain fossil]

u can special cancel but its a bit slow, this patch they basically removed the buffer so u can just wait a tick or move a tick and u wont get the third hit

just dont mash basically

[barren juniper]

Special and cast are quick. You can also dash or just wait.

[plain fossil]

possessed array is really good in general yeah its exactly like an omega in every aspect seems like

[golden adder]

dashing after the second hit and swing after still gives you the chop right?

[steel sequoia]

damn i almost made my 32 with eos now, i f up the coarse grit with 5 earth and died to chronos. will try again now

[plain fossil]

if u buffer the chop u get the chop if u dont u get first swing again

[plain fossil]

because every time i click eos i die to timer lul

[golden adder]

got it

i guess walk can be a visual cue

[plain fossil]

i feel like i have to do 7 min no revenants to not die to timer on eos and i dont wanna do that on 32 man it makes me click some cursed ass vows

[sour cape]

I did 24 Eos yesterday

[plain fossil]

maybe theres some better way to play it idk the patch is new

i just got annoyed at how slow it was

[sour cape]

Def felt like a struggle taking out Chronos though gotta say

Boss dmg is kinda lacking rn

everything else works well though

[cursive oyster]

i think they buffed chronos p2 but i may be wrong, feels much harder

[past pewter]

mel axe doesnt buff omega attack base damage? sad

[barren juniper]

Than axe doesn't build stacks with whirlwind either. Here's hoping they adjust again and make one of the axes whirlwind focused.

[past pewter]

what does everyone think of momus change

i like that the aspect is no longer focused on spamming special

[plain fossil]

I mean its weaker powerwise obviously

[past pewter]

yea good

[barren juniper]

New momus is neat, but too slow with the retriggers for my tastes. You need to get mana online ASAP as well.

[plain fossil]

Im having a lot of fun with it, my read atm after doing couple runs is its weaker than the best post-patch weapons like mel skulls but in that like tier 2 scrum underneath that

[past pewter]

not done any runs on it yet but thinking i might just start hera for born gain then put whatever on attack special cast

just flat damage soup

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1248421834836148284/image.png?ex=66639aef&is=6662496f&hm=1fd6bb4b6b96fb737b501f479b2fd028cb9af4264393d986697611691071eb9a& forsaking who

(defiances were lost to being greedy with the insta kills)

[low bear]

mana regen arcana feels like it's more than enough for New Momus

[strange kite]

yo pan is cooked. they nerfed it so hard the best time on speedrun.com for pan is >10mins

[spare kite]

yeaaaaah idk what I'm supposed to do with eos lmfao

this ghost doing less than skelly

[weak cosmos]

I can once again confirm that possessed array is busted. I just first try'ed surface on 46 fear

[strange kite]

moros torch is number 1?? medea skull and axes are also up there

[plain fossil]

Ur supposed to spam specials when the ghost is up

[strange kite]

pan in shambles

[mystic bison]

Yeah this wasn't very good lol https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1242098453979598872/1248425160613036082/image-7.png?ex=66639e08&is=66624c88&hm=946c543b8acedfacfa52908c6cbef16b6bb63f85faa7b17622f833510b13a548&

29771 scorch is embarrassing

[strange kite]

im gonna be a skull player now i guess

[weak cosmos]

Mel skull is the best weapon

[strange kite]

ugh and i liked pan so much

literally every single hammer was taken out back and killed

and skull and axe are just FEASTING

[mystic bison]

Persephone too good

[strange kite]

it looks like medea is still top for speed tho

i need more nightmare. how farm nightmare?

[mystic bison]

Idk I'm pretty fast with Persephone

It depends if you mean "fast" for speedrunning standards or "fast" as in sub 20 min fast

[barren juniper]

If you've done your heat runs and prophecies then the only way is farming bones IIRC. 1000 per nightmare. Charon also sells them rarely for 1300 gold base in the room before Chronos.

[covert jacinth]

If I'm Priming 80 Magick across a couple boons, and only have 30 max magick, Do I still get all the effects?

[barren juniper]

Yes.

[sly plaza]

You do

[covert jacinth]

[weak cosmos]

Bring Toula and the shovel on each run, beeline chaos for resources and you will have plenty to farm and fish give a lot of bones

[strange kite]

medea skull runs are on speedrun.com already

[sly plaza]

Chaos seeds and fish are 🤌🤌🤌

[weak cosmos]

legendary chaos fish is 222 bones

[sly plaza]

Oh damn. I’ve only gotten Matti so far

[strange kite]

fast as in like eris rail and hera bow in hades 1

[past pewter]

ok but the patch has only been out for a day, give people time to verify runs

[strange kite]

or like momus and pan prepatch lul

[past pewter]

pan can prolly still sub 7

just get triple fields ix smh

[strange kite]

lmao

fields chaos is the new satyr sack

[sly plaza]

Fields feel less bad at least. At least to me. Satyr sacks just felt bad

[past pewter]

if h2 speedruns are anything like h1, then the strength of an aspect is important, but its room/enemy rng that saves the most time

[sly plaza]

Especially when those stinky rats poisoned you

[past pewter]

so it wouldnt surprise me to see sub 6s

[strange kite]

i mean in hades 1 some aspects like CHIRON BOW just straight sucked

[past pewter]

it still has a sub 6

[spare kite]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229078264811618305/1248427625987309689/image.png?ex=6663a054&is=66624ed4&hm=2254d9d051ba2e2bfcd123fd646a2fac23775274f13bfa73c4120106565baab9& I wasn't able to see any reward at all during erebus lmfao

[past pewter]

theres no denying that it sucks

[steel sequoia]

i need to get super sayan now or something lmao facing chronos with an awful build again

[barren juniper]

The nerfed the heck out of it and Chaos Shield in Early Access by putting a longer cooldown on Zeus' special.

Then double tapped on chaos shield later with the removal of shotgunning on special.

[strange kite]

apparently it doesnt

[past pewter]

it does in modded

and unmodded it still has a 6:17 which is faster than a lot of aspects

[strange kite]

peopple like chiron too much therefore it must be nerfed

[past pewter]

well it was pretty powerful in early 1.0, just never good in speedruns due to the nature of the aspect

[strange kite]

like u cannot tell me otherwise theres no way they cooked chiron so hard if not for everyone going 32 on chiron

[mystic bison]

I wasn't around for H1 EA how was Chiron nerfed?

[past pewter]

it used to have 7 arrows doing 15 damage, they nerfed the bow arrow to 10d but added 1 more arrow to every chiron level

[barren juniper]

Chrion worked like Pan with Poseidon special in this game, but Zeus special did more damage and had better pom and boon scaling. The nerf made it so you proc Zeus special maybe twice instead of 5+ times per special.

[strange kite]

i believe at some point chiron bow had zeus special synergy like how pan has poseidon

but in hades 1 zeus has icd

[spare kite]

wait zeus didn't have internal cooldown before?

[past pewter]

pretty sure if that was true at all it was pre 1.0

but ive never heard of it being true so idk

[barren juniper]

He did, but nowhere near as long.

[strange kite]

i dont remember

[mystic bison]

Aw

[merry flint]

HAHAHA YES - me after playing Momus Engineer

[mystic bison]

I mean I still run Zeus on Chiron sometimes

[past pewter]

anyway it was arty special which was good on chiron early 1.0

[past pewter]

not zeus

[strange kite]

yeah i ran artemis aphro on chiron

[mystic bison]

It's either Artemis Dio or Zeus, depends how I feel that day

[merry flint]

bow? rama

[barren juniper]

Arty special was nothing special on chiron. You needed both special hammers for the damage to be respectable. Zeus special way back when was disgusting from room 1. That got nerfed very early in EA, though.

[strange kite]

pan was so fun prepatch and now im not so sure how good pan will be with all the hammer nerfs and how reliable it will be with such a worse hammer distribution

[strange kite]

having the hammer rng be such a big deal is what makes chiron an actual pain in the ass to play

[mystic bison]

Pan is still fine u just can't delete Kronos in 10 sec anymore

It's fine

[strange kite]

i cannot overstate how much i hate hammer rng

[barren juniper]

Yeah, that flat damage for each hit should have been part of the base weapon IMO.

[merry flint]

i never played pan pre-patch 😏

only so much nightmare to go around, i sunk it into artemis

[strange kite]

i mean its the same for artemis

the special hammer thats good on pan are mostly also good on artemis

[merry flint]

well i was mostly doing attack based builds so

[strange kite]

u just dont have the homing so u need to shotgun

[tired fulcrum]

Just flex chiron into bad zagbow https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1248099510392197180/image.png?ex=6663177f&is=6661c5ff&hm=345fb9354bbc1b2a8f8692ed5bc9f6cf4230eb941d657eaa27436434b84ac7bf& 🧠

[strange kite]

bruh

[past pewter]

yea lol chiron speedrun strats dont focus on special

too slow

[tired fulcrum]

just in general play chiron like bad zagbow 🧠

[strange kite]

bruuuuuuh

miss me with that trash

may as well quit chiron copium and play eris rail at that point

[past pewter]

well there was a push for all aspects sub 6

and chiron was one of the last ones to make it

[strange kite]

LUL

[past pewter]

maybe the last(?)

[strange kite]

hades 2 gonna release with pan as the worst weapon

[silent crow]

dont casual players still love chiron in h1

[strange kite]

“poseidon special now has an icd and poseidon is completely wortheless”

[mystic bison]

Chiron Bow is fun lol

[past pewter]

yeah

[silent crow]

then who cares lol

[past pewter]

every weapon is fine for casual;s in h1

[silent crow]

that is the goal isnt it

[past pewter]

yup

[barren juniper]

0 Upgrade 4th spear

[mystic bison]

All this is about speedrun clears and most don't care about that, I don't

[past pewter]

just dont get hit

[silent crow]

😼

[mystic bison]

As long as it can clear sub 20 reliably that's all that matters

[strange kite]

i want to play meta but i also want to play fun weapons

[mystic bison]

And sub 20 is mostly a skill issue in any case

Chiron Bow is a fun weapon one of my favorites

[strange kite]

well every weapon can sub 20 with ur eyes losed

[sour cape]

Ok this is exaggeration

[silent crow]

yeah hook + spiral knives is still dumb as hel

[strange kite]

hades 1 sub 20 is actually trivial

[mystic bison]

And sub 20 = fast

[barren juniper]

Chiron went from a favorite to a never pick for me. I only use Rama bow now.

[silent crow]

i have a level 1 pan and its still dumb

[mystic bison]

Speedrunners have different standards about speed, idc about that

[silent crow]

i hate using it but the dmg is insane

[merry flint]

yeah im happy with sub 20

[mystic bison]

If u can beat td3 that's good enough

[sour cape]

I like Pan playstyle, and Chiron bow

[past pewter]

td3 feels way harder in h2 but i also havent played it nearly as much as h1

[sour cape]

Same yea

[strange kite]

i like pan but i dont want to play a bad weapon if there’s another weapon that i can faceroll with

[sour cape]

5 mins is pretty brutal

[silent crow]

idk i just hate the omega special

[strange kite]

td3 is definitely much harder in hades 2 like waaay harder

[mystic bison]

Only Erebus is an issue for me in 5 min, I cannot consistently clear it in that time

[strange kite]

for 1 thing: selene exists to make td3 suck

[mystic bison]

That's why I've never gone away from 7min timer, even though most my runs are sub 20 now

[sour cape]

Oh come on its not bad weapon even without hammers 💀

[past pewter]

i havent actually timed out yet in h2 but i also havent used the jury summons equivalent so yea

[strange kite]

also onion is start of biome instead of end of biome so it went from free heat to extremely painful

[slate pecan]

yeah 5min timer in erebus on higher fears pretty much requires you to get multiple room skips :/

[silent crow]

more weapons in h2 seem designed to just kill every enemy in a 5 mile radius at once so jury summons hasnt felt that bad for me

[strange kite]

if onion was purging pool instead at the end of biome it would be actually giga free

[past pewter]

doesnt js mean more waves

[sour cape]

Is Poseidon now a bottom tier god now that Pans a bit slower than Torches? @strange kite

[past pewter]

/fewer 1 or 2 wavers

[mystic bison]

Underworld Customs is indeed better than Onion, but I did still hate it in H1

[sour cape]

Yea Underworld Customs works a lot better than Onion

[merry flint]

hey none of the curses are approval process

[spare kite]

My only time out has been trial of haste rn I think

[sour cape]

Onion in Erebus = 5 rooms of no boon

[past pewter]

idk if anyone can say that pan is slower than torches rn, the sample size is tiny

[strange kite]

u know what? yes actually. poseidon is pretty ass tier considering it’s not really amazing for anything but pan and the boons arent that good

[spare kite]

Someone modded it back in

Wrong reply, that was for ap2

[sour cape]

I knew it

[strange kite]

like all u have are slip and double chance

oh wait no

[sly plaza]

Poseidon fall off generational tbh

[strange kite]

u have the omega cast dont u? for charon axe

[past pewter]

like none of the post patch pan runs are from top pan runners in first patch, meanwhile torch record is by a top runner already

[strange kite]

so poseidon is like mid tier probably?

[barren juniper]

Poseidon special on Staff to pretend you're playing old Momus

[strange kite]

that’s cope

[sour cape]

Good point 👀

[merry flint]

hey its still fun

[sour cape]

Idk bout speedrun scene but

[merry flint]

MMMM MOMUS GOOD AND FUN

[sour cape]

For me, Pan still feels good and now maybe wont get hated on for playing best weapon

[merry flint]

actually got Geyser Ring to do most damage in my run

[mystic bison]

Who gives af, hating broken weapons is cope

[strange kite]

pan was never the best weapon last patch it was just a fun weapon that wasnt momus and the one u play if u dont want to break ur mouse

[mystic bison]

Deleting enemies is nice

[sour cape]

Momus got sooo much hate

[barren juniper]

If they fix poseidon special on Torch omega then Beyblade will be super strong. Otherwise I'm mostly just taking Poseidon's Gain and support boons.

[sour cape]

Yea Poseidon special on torch just seems to be kinda underwhelming

[past pewter]

whats the issue with pos spcial torch

[sour cape]

Idk why

[mystic bison]

I had my fun with Momus laughing at enemies getting deleted as soon as they spawn

[sour cape]

It kinda looks like ICD? Not sure just doesnt do a lotta dmg

[barren juniper]

It's bugged and doesn't trigger on every hit when you have multiple omega specials going.

[past pewter]

ah big rip

hera dem on top

[barren juniper]

It's not even an internal cooldown since it triggers on every hit for Dagger rapid attack and special

[sour cape]

Yea thats why idk, its judt very weird

[sudden coyote]

Is the artificer arcana card any good?

[strange kite]

lmao poseidon actual trash tier bugged god worthless

[past pewter]

sux

[barren juniper]

It just acts like there's only one layer of omega special going with Torches. IDK what the deal is.

[lost shell]

any good and new builds for the new patch?

[strange kite]

🚮

[sour cape]

🎣

[barren juniper]

Moros Torch. Hera Special. Aphro Attack. Melt faces.

[mystic bison]

Me with Moros at lvl 1 kek

[plain fossil]

im out here pushing momus dont mind me

[sour cape]

Moros Torches deals sooo much dmg

[strange kite]

i dont have moros unlocked

hey can i refund my momus nightmares?

[mystic bison]

U saw the Thanatos scorch run?

[sour cape]

Welp better go unlock if its the best now

[plain fossil]

no i didnt u got link?

[lost shell]

how should i play? spam attack or special?

[barren juniper]

Use omega special then spam attacks while it's active.

[strange kite]

i mean im still not sure if its moros best or medea best or charon best

[mystic bison]

Pretty mediocre lol #h2-builds-and-combat message

[lost shell]

interesting. will try soon. thanks!

[silent crow]

i did a pfft out loud when i saw this LMFAO

[sour cape]

Maybe Medea then since its proven good 🙏

since last patch too

[mystic bison]

Scorch sucks man I can't wait for Hestia buff

[silent crow]

what makes medea good

[past pewter]

budget beo

[sour cape]

Tons of dmg and guarantee hitting attacks

[silent crow]

hm

doesnt it make you int a lot tho

[sly plaza]

You also basically have a guaranteed origination proc

Provided your attack and special are from different gods

[mystic bison]

Afaik people run Aphro atk Zeus special

[sour cape]

Dang it, surface run I took Onion and got Selene start, double Onion 😔😔

[strange kite]

YO f

[past pewter]

i saw croven run dem attack

but havent watched the latest wr

[merry flint]

yeah just die

[strange kite]

surface run selene start is some kind of sick joke

[spare kite]

The funniest medea thing for me is the enemies

[silent crow]

i hate those

[strange kite]

u know what selene should be the secret boss like how charon was for h1

[mystic bison]

I'm sitting on 14 nightmare, Medea the first one I'll max prob

[strange kite]

it would be so fitting to have to fight selene after she sabotaged so many runs

[silent crow]

i maxed all three torch aspects 😼

[mystic bison]

I got Circe Medea Moros Artemis left, all at lvl 1

[strange kite]

also do i have to redo heat 32 surface for my statues to still count? i already redid 32 underground (seeded. 1 hammer. selene start)

[merry flint]

I got Circe Moros Persephone left

[strange kite]

surface is some special kind of hell

the enemies are so cracked and the bosses are way harder

[silent crow]

normally i would recommend eos torches to cheese surface but umm uhh

[plain fossil]

Yea ok lul bit sad but gotta try right

[merry flint]

roll hammer

[silent crow]

just get luckier lmfao

[sly plaza]

The price to pay for easier build control in Ephyra I guess

[merry flint]

downpatch and play busted momus

[sly plaza]

Clearing every staff bounty with old Momus (fair and ethical tbh)

[merry flint]

current fear is stupid you deserve to cheese it with momus

[strange kite]

luuul i hate staff

[merry flint]

don't like doing it so i won't

[plain fossil]

i should go back to surface a bit

[merry flint]

i did a lot of surface runs trying to clear medea prophecy

[strange kite]

i did surface on perse and took the exploding cast icarus

and i realized i had no way to safely dps eris without just hiding behind cover

cuz i couldnt stay on top of her and dodge behind her cuz my casts would kill me

it was so dumb lul

i hate playing safe

whats the point of hades if u dont zoom smh

[past salmon]

How are we today fellas

[barren juniper]

HP and DD are just resources that let you deal more damage hehe.

[strange kite]

faaacts

hp above 1 is wasted anyways

[past salmon]

Run onion on surface imo it's okay on surface and is 3F

[plain fossil]

I think this guy is the lunatic that runs onion underground u dont need to tell him to do it on surface lul

[sour cape]

This run is pretty oof. Persephone skull surface with Zeus keepsake.

Got Selene-Then Onion Zeus.

Ephyra has one Zeus where I don't get Storm Ring

3 Poseidons, 1 Demeter and 1 Aphro are my other god choices

[past salmon]

Oh lmao

[plain fossil]

Onion on surface is good agree

[strange kite]

hey i did my last heat 32 without onion

[plain fossil]

Wandering monster is 💀 tho

[strange kite]

and i got an onion anyways in the form of a hot moon goddess

[past salmon]

Is it that bad? Like city kinda sucks but it's completely free in rift

[strange kite]

and then my first boon was a choice between poseidon or hammer so i had to skip my hammer and had 1 hammer for the run in fields

[deft cedar]

Hi why nobody play Aspect of artemis?

[past salmon]

People do most people just gravitate towards pan I think

[strange kite]

some people do but the issue is that artemis is just pan without homing

and less daggers as well

[past salmon]

Wait wot 😭 why are we special spamming on artemis

[strange kite]

the only upside is fast omega attack and a once in a blue moon parry

because special shotgun is fat deeps

[plain fossil]

I put wm1 its palatable but wm2 is some nightmare of harpies and spear throwers and u cant find space to dps

[past salmon]

True ig harpies just exist lmao

[plain fossil]

At least the spitters dont spawn with wm in ephyra that would be an actual horror show

[strange kite]

u can tell that the devs never played starcraft based on the harpies

why is there no dotted line and circle to tell use the harpy hitbox?

[past salmon]

Why is there no big red circles and arrows fr fr

[merry flint]

wydm? they just added that to chronos

[weak cosmos]

Eris done on 48 easy

[past salmon]

Ayo?
What weapon

[weak cosmos]

I posted build in victory channel

[past salmon]

Ahh yeh Mel skulls possessed goes crazy

I still think bolstered is better, at least I've had more success with it in 50F than possessed

[weak cosmos]

which vows are you not running at 50?

[past salmon]

Arcana lol

[weak cosmos]

Yeah this was arcana and blue shields

[past salmon]

Yeah that is the 48 setup I used

I have a couple runs to fields on 50 now it's doable

[barren juniper]

It's +40 power and better attack rate vs more than 2x damage for possessed from a pure DPS standpoint. Those extra skulls go a long way in dealing with some of that weapon's clunkiness though.

[plain fossil]

pretty impressive eris 48 on skulls since u only get 1 hammer

[weak cosmos]

Both are definitely useable to similar effect though. Bolstered is definitely a bit easier to play with

[past salmon]

I think bolstered is effectively nearly the same dps increase as possessed but I haven't actually done the math on it.
Both together is insane tho

[pine ridge]

maybe this is bad form, but if I'm on 32 Fear with Vow of Bitterness and I get Selene first room, I just let myself die in the second room and get a new seed

[weak cosmos]

Playing with posessed, I feel like I do so much more damage because omega attack got buffed to have a vastly larger aoe (apollo nukes half the screen)

[past salmon]

The aoe is insane yeah

[sour cape]

Made it to Eris and died 😭😭

[pine ridge]

yeahhhh, getting Selene first at high Fear is sorta like... a death from 1000 cuts situation

you don't realize how much you need an early start until you're deep into a run and like "oof what is going ooon why is this so haaard"

[barren juniper]

There's also boons from Demeter and Hera that can give a massive amount of flat damage to the omega attack. I think that makes possessed better for raw dps. In practice though, lots of enemies will die or get phased before you can even collect the skulls.

The nice thing though is you can prestack skulls against phased bosses with possessed.

[weak cosmos]

Apollo legendary + weed killer will oneshot everything

[plain fossil]

i mean ur not gonna click omega attack boons on mel skulls even if u got possessed right, the flat isnt that big

[weak cosmos]

it is in fact very big

[plain fossil]

whats weedkiller like +10 or something on a 90 base explosion?

[weak cosmos]

weed killer is +50% for common

[sour cape]

Circe also was clowning around and removed Onion Vow

[barren juniper]

They're both %damage increases, not flat.

[plain fossil]

oh right its a % increase thats pretty decent

[weak cosmos]

seeing as mel skull passive works on it alongside attack boons and origination, you can easily hit for 250 per omega skull

[plain fossil]

yea right i got mixed up with the mana cost

[pine ridge]

NOOOOO lol

[plain fossil]

its probably worth clicking then? u would get like 15% dps from it or so which is decent

[pine ridge]

Omega Attack skulls aren't bad. not great but not bad. I never go out of my way for them but if I can rarify an Epic Attack Boon in the first room with Persephone it's decent... but I usually pivot to spamming Omega Special/Cast when I can get to it. lol

[plain fossil]

similar to hermes boon

[weak cosmos]

yea, with all of my skulls out against Skelly I am hitting 169 damage. No attack boon

[barren juniper]

Okay, Night Bloom is growing on me. Even with a bad summon, it's still a solid DPS bump thanks to Hitch. I still never want to see Selene though haha.

[mystic bison]

I'll just play Mel Torches as bad old Eos now lol

[merry flint]

ngl after playing so much eos, normal sized omegas look weird

'why is everything tiny'

[sly orbit]

What is the most broken weapon aspect and build right now? I've done all my own discovering stuff with the game and have seen all content so just curious now what is the most powerful after the latest patch

[barren juniper]

Moros aspect. Aphrodite attack imo.

[quiet axle]

Does anyone know if there's code that discourages you from repeating an aspect? I am trying to get a certain build going and it feels like every run I get worse and worse luck on Hammers (for example.. I use a special-focused aspect, but only ever get Attact hammers)

[barren juniper]

There isn't, but some weapons have worse hammers than others. You might try using Icarus' hammer keepsake if you aren't (assuming your weapon can't brick too hard).

Basically the old Zeus/Poseidon gun build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnXi6DB0Tao

[obtuse cape]

So the new buff to Circe aspect is pretty noticeable.

[weak cosmos]

I see the potency of this build. It is similar dps to apollo legendary possessed array

[balmy imp]

Guys, what is a good build focused on staff omega special?

[low bear]

Build suggestions for Mel Blades at 36 fear?

[civic ocean]

gonna go live and do some more rotating 32s

[steel sequoia]

yo nemesis stole my echo now thats so sad

[quiet axle]

Anyone know if Weed Killer (Omega Attack deals 75% more damage, but uses +10 Magic) works with Possessed Array (Argent skull hammer) that says "Your Shells fire Omega Attack for 0 Magick when retrieved)

If I have both, would retrieving my shells deal 75% more damage?

[barren juniper]

Yes, and yes. And they still cost 0 magick.

[quiet axle]

oh nice

[quaint orchid]

Is thanatos better now?

[steel sequoia]

all right i gave up 32fear, tried the entire day with anything possible, im just bad

[low bear]

Pan daggers

[plain fossil]

Pretty sure mel skulls is the easiest 32 out there, just dont click blue shields and do click possessed/bolstered hammers

U just do 58274849191 dps

[barren juniper]

And it lets you ignore all that stuff that messes with your magick.

[weak cosmos]

I am trying 51 fear surface with mel skull right now

[plain fossil]

Sounds miserable, enjoy

Whats the 2f u turned off

[weak cosmos]

Healing and blue shields

[plain fossil]

Oh u turned off scars3 on surface? Do u just hate not being able to heal

[weak cosmos]

yes

[plain fossil]

Seems reasonable

[sour cape]

No Arcana 👀

[weak cosmos]

Yeah it isnt actually as bad as it sounds. I am using moros keepsake

[plain fossil]

I would have thought u gotta aim heph anyway so may as well click scars3

[weak cosmos]

figured I would do 51 before 53

[plain fossil]

Also timer3 rev2 on surface sounds horrendous lul enjoy

[weak cosmos]

It is easy with posessed array

you know what, you're right. no healing/no revenants is better

[tulip sonnet]

question: what boons does momus synergize with? for like the omega cast

[plain fossil]

Not many

Apollo doesnt work and most other cast effects dont get the full effect because the copies are very brief

Its really only poseidon that u get triple of

[tired fulcrum]

Does hestias omega special projectile work

[plain fossil]

I dont think so

I know it doesnt work on eos special copies i tried that

[tired fulcrum]

Rip

[steel sequoia]

can you translate that please? didnt understand it

[lost shell]

Momus is the new Eos. SO fun

Any other new builds for new weapons?

[steel sequoia]

u mean spamming skulls attack is the easiest? i had a bad time on oceanus

[timber pawn]

Suggesting not taking the vow of rebuke (also known as blue hearts) and possessed array and the other one are two good hammers

[plain fossil]

很确定梅尔头骨是最简单的 32，只要不要点击蓝色盾牌并点击拥有/支撑的锤子

...at least thats what google says my mandarin is a lil rusty

[steel sequoia]

ill try that, whats the best god? aphro?

[plain fossil]

Hera start on attack

[steel sequoia]

ill try another time, today i failed lmao im tired and my finger is cracked

thanks for the tips anyway i noted

[sage compass]

Can we see what each arcana card does in our codex (or even see the active ones we have for a run)? It says the names of the arcana cards when using judgement, but I don't remember what they do yet

[steel sequoia]

i almost won 3 times with eos but the rng hated me and the best run i screwed up

[spare kite]

Check your boon menu and click the grasp icon to see which cards you have

[weak cosmos]

Demeter or apollo

[steel sequoia]

what, why apollo?

[weak cosmos]

Larger area in case you get posessed array

[steel sequoia]

makes sense

[sudden coyote]

Does bridal glow make the boobs lose rarity down to common or just what they originally were?

[past salmon]

I still think Hera is just better imo

Since if you don't get possessed it's the only thing giving you actual room clear

[spare kite]

Common
Also funny typo

[past salmon]

Also Hera contributes to grit if you get it

[mystic bison]

Alright so rev 2 is impossible on 5min timer

[past salmon]

Impossible is a strong word.
Just ball harder imo imo

[past salmon]

Also yeah rev 2 is like a last take at like 45+ most weapons lol

[mystic bison]

32 is enough for me lmao I was trying to find a good setup for 5min

[past salmon]

Yeah 5 min 32 you just don't take commotion/revs
Dominance is fine, commotion is also doable but probs just turn it off

Turn Rebuke off always unless Ur on a weapon that ignores it

[shy summit]

anyone else feel like the buffed Twilight Curse (sheep hex) is borderline broken?

[mystic bison]

Yeah I did 40% commotion and was doing fine but timer ran out for Kronos

[mystic bison]

Rebuke is a no go cause I'm doing Persephone

[shy summit]

it's basically one of the best crowd control options in the game

[past salmon]

Yeah Def's not lol. Skulls just lose to rebuke

[shy summit]

and now you can activate it in pretty much every room without difficulty

[past salmon]

Both 48F skull wins (1 underworld 1 surface) take off rebuke so

[mystic bison]

I turned up scars and lowered commotion to 20% so that's what I'll run tommorow it should be pretty good

[past salmon]

I think scars 3 is the play at 32 yeah

I genuinely think playing without healing is completely fine if you don't have high blood/suffering

[past salmon]

Idk tbh I haven't played enough lower fear to see if hexes r really good now. Hexes are just like unusable past a certain fear threshhold

[shy summit]

makes sense

especially in a post moon water nerf world it's not worth gambling

[past salmon]

I mean moon water never did anything high fear anyway cuz scars lmao

[shy summit]

the enemy-slowing hexes like time slow and morph are very strong when enemies are +40% faster I think

you can activate them in nearly every chamber and it makes things incredibly safe

[past salmon]

I think some hexes can maybe be a nice to have on like Pan or Persephone 40-45 but you are never seeking anything and pretty much always take something else over Selene if you can help it

[trail wharf]

advice on best selections for 32 heat?

[sterile portal]

playing a very dangerous game with chaos right now https://imgur.com/y4m2cEp

[strange python]

feesh

[sterile portal]

ive made it to mourning fields. i have no death defiances left outside of toula's so i hope i get echo

but... eos with poseidon attack and white antler is pretty silly

[inner ivy]

Never did anything low fear too cause fountain heals everything up xD