h2-builds-and-combat

[analog ether]

Oooh, Nemesis has a new trade option I think

[hazy crater]

If they just give the mel aspect staff an increased basic attack speed too it would probably be good

[bleak night]

How does it go

[hazy crater]

Even if it isn't as broken as other aspects, keep in mind it's a mel aspect which is pretty much the bargain bin aspect

[analog ether]

Give up a boon of her choice. Get a mega pom of power

[bleak night]

Oh, interesting

[hot canopy]

I thought that was already a thing

[hazy crater]

Yeah I think so

[spare kite]

I hope they add nem using the boons at some point lmao

[analog ether]

If it is, I've never gotten it

[compact arrow]

Does anyone know how many locations there are on the surface? (roughly)

[spare kite]

Or do the gods just look at her and go "ew, no"

[hazy crater]

Am I the only one that would prefer if you could hold on to the moonstone axe special without using the omega? The block doesn't feel super useful to me since I can't hold it for long

Maybe I'm just too used to the shield from Hades 1 tho

[compact arrow]

Asking cuz Rare Crop just popped on a boon and I'm not sure if I have the locations needed to make use of it xd

[wild pine]

Yes, but the balance is on a heck of a razor's edge. Like if you have common born gain and 80 max mana, then you have 360 mana per encounter. (which is functionally infinite in most cases) But then if you pick up a duo and drop to 50 you now only have 150 (which can very much run out). With any other Gain you wouldn't risk having more than half of your available mana wiped out by one pickup.

[spare kite]

Someone mentioned like 36 rooms (assuming no side rooms in ephyra)? I think
But if rare crop is per encounter it should be fine

[compact arrow]

Mmm currently on Location 31 after beating 2nd boss maybe I can get to Epic

We'll try and I'll confirm later lol

[wild pine]

35 is charon's shop so you have 3 boats left

if each has 2 encounters you are good, but might get screwed by a mini-boss room

[hot canopy]

Charybdis is a miniboss

[compact arrow]

Ah right, I use it for reference but yes xD

[hot canopy]

it's also not a guaranteed spawn, I don't know if there are rules for how far into a run it'll appear

[compact arrow]

my face when next room is Shop already and I'm headed towards the boss 💀 HAHAH

[analog ether]

Heh, I think Nem got salty that I didn't do her trade. Of the two rooms she could've stolen (pom and money), she went with pom

[strange kite]

u should pause

[compact arrow]

at least the 2 common boons weren't as useful

[strange kite]

whenever a room comes up just pause buffer and get ready to take the room u want instant after unpaise

[shy summit]

anyone tried new momus yet?

[strange kite]

that way u dont waste time on the timer and can think while paused

[shy summit]

I like the new design significantly more on paper but haven't tried yet

[spare kite]

I want to max it first

[compact arrow]

I got caught up in the middle of a previous run and I have to say I prefer it over the old one

[sour cape]

I like it, its fun!

[shy summit]

I like that it's actually a playstyle changing aspect

[hazy crater]

Not yet because it seems mid of it isn't maxed out and I haven't done so yet

[sour cape]

Not super op since cant copy casts well but watching your turrets fire off is neat

[shy summit]

which is always what you want out of an aspect

[compact arrow]

Yea it actually does change the playstyle quite a lot compared to the previous +5 heal when -50% HP

You can omega cast, omega attack and omega special in place then watch as the enemies die

[shy summit]

momus users had their fun now it's momus users turn

[hazy crater]

Real

[strange kite]

we’ll have to see if new momus ends up being super good

imagine it ends up tier 0 again lul

[low frost]

Ooof, finally got my 20-heat win with the axe. The slowness of the axe really hurts vs 40% faster enemies.

[strange kite]

tho i doubt it will be as dominant

[sour cape]

At least more people know who Momus is now

[strange kite]

whos momus?

[sour cape]

Weird choice for an aspect

He's like the god of satire

[hazy crater]

Dionysus lite

[inner ivy]

ok yea, it feels like waiting until the 4th drop for eris last phase is the most safe strat, unless you're running smth fast and ranged

[spare kite]

I'm still waiting for magical girl moros art tbh

[analog ether]

Feels like they buffed the amount of gold you get from enemies. I'm only like three or four rooms into Erebus, and I'm already over 500 gold

[proven orbit]

Is this with boatman start orrr?

[low frost]

I imagine you have boatman, yeah

[shy summit]

i did get to try out the new torches

[analog ether]

Could be, I haven't checked what cards I had activated since the last time I played

[shy summit]

and tried an attack focused build
it's.... okay. much better than before. still underwhelming

using mel aspect

got the new split projectile hammer and had fun

[strange kite]

its not like theres an aspect that buffs attacks. closest is circe for spamming attacks to charge up serenity

[shy summit]

why did they nerf the torch specials smh

[spare kite]

They did?

[shy summit]

that was the ONE THING they had going for them! they don't even stagger!

[inner ivy]

lol yea it pretty subpar. I had an amazing aphrodite att build once and it was netting 500-600 every 3 strikes

[spare kite]

I legit only used eos lmao

[low frost]

I'm looking forward to a banger of a Moros run.

Getting double-hits off omega attacks into omega-special balls will be lit

[strange kite]

im looking forward to absolutely nothing since i got absolutely nothing from this patch

[low frost]

Previously, the omega-special duration was barely longer than the omega-attack channel time.

[wild pine]

Omega special is tweaked in various ways. Normal special deals 15 instead of 20 but an be cast while moving and actually speed you up. It's pretty cool. Also, lots of the special-modifying hammers were improved and they almost all now effect both normal and omega special instead of only one or the other. Overall I expect people to conclude that torch special is substantially better now than it was before, once they get used to it

[sour cape]

The Omega special still deals same dmg as before and normal special gives speed boost

[strange kite]

this patch high key sucks for me

[sour cape]

I like the patch

[inner ivy]

nah it got buffed from 20 to 25 pretty sure

[sour cape]

Oh buffed? 👀👀

[civic ocean]

The omega special lets you move while channelling slightly but it costs 25 mana

[sour cape]

Great vakue then

[shy summit]

they basically made the special take the place of the attack (mostly good for applying statuses)
then gave the attack a minor buff

[civic ocean]

Torch attack got buffed alot tbh

[sour cape]

cost less mana too right?

[civic ocean]

It's more damage and also much faster

[sour cape]

Im liking torches more than before

[wild pine]

Torch attack is way better now, in ways that one doesn't necessarily appreciate at first glance

[inner ivy]

ohm att got nerfed to 40, but it's still overall a massive buff

[sand crow]

Torch is actually playable now

[low frost]

I mean, we ALL got > reduced effectiveness of mutant sheep, so one in 3-4 runs isn't ludicrously harder than the rest.

[sour cape]

yea it feels a lot less clunky

[shy summit]

ok they did buff the torch attack a lot
what I meant was it still doesn't feel strong

[sand crow]

dude play moros

[sly plaza]

Really?

[sour cape]

Im liking the new playstyles!

[weak meteor]

Omega attack feels great to me.

[cursive oyster]

play moros

[inner ivy]

it actually was, just uncomfortable lol

[shy summit]

i might have skill issue

[sly plaza]

Even like bog standard Mel torches cook rn

[sour cape]

Eos and Moros are great

[civic ocean]

I ran moros for the first time yesterday, at rank 1 with 18 fear including vow of panic and it felt really good

[spare kite]

I like them more than axe tbh

[sour cape]

Mel Torches kinda the old Eos basic attack aspect now?

[sand crow]

oh for sure, my friend adored Eos pre-patch I just couldn't personally get used to it

[low frost]

IMO, it already felt strong with Moros (omega-special->melee-range-attacks.)

[shy summit]

I did a run with poseidon attack on mel torches and it was mid

[sour cape]

Try Eos

[cursive oyster]

yeah because mel torches is for omega special spam

[wild pine]

All the attack-modifying hammers for Torch got huge buffs too. I agree that Torch attack feels pretty mediocre at the start of a run, still, but with any reasonable attack hammers it's very nice

[spare kite]

The eos hammer doesn't get you the increased dmg nor the lingering so is kinda ???

[civic ocean]

Mel torches aren't an attack aspect tbf, they're still best with aura gaming

[sour cape]

You summon ghosty and you are set

[cursive oyster]

new eos is mid imo

[inner ivy]

did you not have issues with the projectiles getting stuck at times though

[wild pine]

big ghost so slow.

[trim summit]

I like my new ghost buddy

[spare kite]

Eos hammer kinda fun with moros but I'm still playing moros at the end of the day

[sour cape]

I feel like the only one who likes new Eos 😂

[wild pine]

Just make him fly a little faster and I will be down to clown.

[cursive oyster]

quick tip, try right clicking

[inner ivy]

actually i see some people running it over moros for attack because it gets stuck

[low frost]

What do you mean by 'get stuck'?

[civic ocean]

Kinda? It was my first time playing the wep so it happened occasionally but I just dashed and specialed

I had the basic attacks dealing like 140 a pop without exploding it was pretty goodge

[forest veldt]

anyone know where to read the smaller patch notes? think there was just one and it seems like perseph omega special doesn't let u hit all 3 anymore

[sand crow]

The thing with projectiles getting stuck is that you can just omega attack to get everything spread out, then just special to make them all big

[civic ocean]

The attack projectiles on Moros get stuck to one another

[inner ivy]

yea, but you just lost damage and time to do that, and you have to restart your channel, smartass

[spare kite]

Tbf I haven't built new eos yet but there was something about seeing a lot of ghosts be stacked and return that was nice

[sand crow]

I wanna run aphro attack poseidon special then get the duo to make the damage boost not just close to me

[strange kite]

medea did get buffed right?

[spare kite]

I see the dmg with moros but it doesn't feel the same

[low frost]

Huh. I usually have omega-special up though, so it doesn't seem like that would bother me.

[strange kite]

i heard medea was super good pre patch but they made it less janky?

[cursive oyster]

you channel much faster than before and creating a giant explosion isn’t losing out on damage

[spare kite]

And I just don't like how the Ω special look for some reason lmao

[sand crow]

Medea just feels weird to me lol

[inner ivy]

a buff doesn't mean existing issues arent still there smh

[cursive oyster]

???

[wild pine]

Technically there were no changes to medea as such. But they made it easier to punch sea snakes, and the omega attack is better on all skulls aspects, and some of the special-modifying hammers are better

[low frost]

I'm just a bit confused about why I would care about the projectiles getting stuck together

[summer root]

did anyone else just get a little mini update?

[low frost]

The whole game plan is that I detonate them against the omega-special in melee range.

[inner ivy]

they get stuck right in front of you randomly sometimes

a lot of ppl have complained about it

[low frost]

Gotcha.

[inner ivy]

you want your projectiles to actually reach your enemies before you pop them

[sand crow]

You can use that strategically by dashing into the attack, creating a lil nest egg of attacks so that you have a big burst of damage

It is frustrating sometimes tho

[low frost]

Well, I haven't had time for a torches run post-patch, so it's good to be warned that there's a new issue.

[inner ivy]

I know that, but sometimes they just randomly stop right in front of you when there's nothing there. I know it's good to pool them for big bursts

[inner ivy]

nah it was there previous patch too

[shy summit]

highly recommend playing post-patch thanatos axe if you have it upgraded btw

so fun, although axe fans are saying that charon is still the best aspect

[sour cape]

Charon feasting

[low frost]

Oh, then it definitely didn't bother me. That was one of my strongest aspects that wasn't Pan/momus.

[civic ocean]

that makes sense but it is hard to do that with Vow of Panic active

[tired fulcrum]

Its generally do to dashing/movement changing their momentum making them hit each other. Its much more of an issue this patch due to the attack speed increase

[spare kite]

delete panic, got it

[inner ivy]

yea, it's related to movement. ahh probably the fast ones colliding with the slow ones. haven't tried it out extensively this patch yet

[civic ocean]

I think it's just a diff way to play the weapon, opting for mid-range and going for a machinegun of 100-150 dmg little bullets. Would be better if they didn't collide but the explosions are maybe a good trade-off?

[inner ivy]

okay seems like it just happens if you dash in the direction that you're firing. it could be a feature i suppose

[tired fulcrum]

Itd be nice if they didnt collide with each other but lost momentum when hitting an enemy

[civic ocean]

Yeah

[inner ivy]

this sounds like a big quality of life upgrade

[civic ocean]

The only complaint I have with Moros is that the bullets block each other

[tired fulcrum]

Now put it in feedback so i dont have to

[strange kite]

okay so apparently u get one extra major in erebus. is this actually huge?

it might be a big deal

considering how hard erebus is

[sour cape]

Yea

could be big difference having an extra boon for sure!

[sand crow]

that is indeed huge, erebus runs feel much more consistent now compared to how they used to be
also ummm does anyone have a good 16 fear loadout for torches?

[inner ivy]

what fear do you play

[sour cape]

Fury, Wandering, Forsaking, Arrogance, Shop

Is what I'e do prob 🤔

[rough trench]

What gods do you use to build around Descura for high fear? I just can't get a good run going.

[sand crow]

forsaking sounds scary lol, is it worth?

[sour cape]

Forsaking is pretty much free fear

You dont often even want to pick everything it forsakes

[civic ocean]

Which aspect do you like?

[sour cape]

and you can often substitute boons from diff gods

[rough trench]

Eh, doesn't matter for me. I'm not a big Descura fan in general. Just trying to clear its last testament.

[sour cape]

Like if you forsake Lightning Lance for Storm Ring, you can just get dad cast or Hestia later

[civic ocean]

I would say that my two favorite gods for the staff are Apollo and Hera at the moment, if I plan to use mana, or Poseidon/Aphrodite/Demeter if I plan to use Vow of Panic.

A winning strategy at high fear with all 3 aspects is to go Hera for Born Gain, and then try to go for Exceptional Talent, Apollo's Legendary that double plays your omega moves. I usually build around the Omega Attack.

For no magic, take Wave Strike from Poseidon, and Double Up if you can get it, then Life Affirmation and Weak from Aph and Freeze and Plentiful Forage from Demeter. Watch your hp climb to huge levels and hopefully get Heart Appetite duo to convert that to damage.

[rough trench]

Thanks! I'll give those a shot.

[tall notch]

One of the easier oaths to take

[inner ivy]

how reliable is that with the forsaking nerfs though

[civic ocean]

Even if you don't get it, omega attack spam with born gain or huntress poseidon attack is pretty good

You can low roll bad hammers and such but it should be able to win at 20-24 which I think is what Descura's hardest testament is?

[rough trench]

Oh, I hope there isn't a 24. I'm working on 20 right now.

[inner ivy]

i think you can play most things at 20-24 and still win tbf aha

I did the highest testament with pre-patch circe just out of spite lmao

[sour cape]

if its 20 Chronos, thats the highest

Otherwise it would be 24 Chronos

[rough trench]

I think Torches had a 20 and 24 Chronos (I know 24 was the highest for that), though I could be mistaken.

[steel sequoia]

theres two 24 fear weaps, i think it was torches and axe?

i had some difficult with polymephus but it was fine in the end. 32 fear is painfull tho

[sour cape]

Torches and Daggers I think 🤔

[steel sequoia]

most likely

[sour cape]

Axe is 20

[tender anvil]

So after a day, what’s good for torches, and what can do a 45?

[inner ivy]

ok fr the patch made surface harder

[sterile portal]

Anyone have recs for Hepheastus centered builds? I have to get his keepsake upgraded but I don't typically like his attack/specials.

[inner ivy]

more elites, and charybidis shoots differently, tentacles spawned while projectiles in flight, and more tentacles maybe

[tender anvil]

Pick him up starting Oceanus and get defensive package. Otherwise, knock out his duos for the prophecy

[tired fulcrum]

Tentacles spawning while projectiles were in air could already happen. Prob unlucky or something

[inner ivy]

four of them?

[tired fulcrum]

Idk, probably

[inner ivy]

like maybe near the end of it, but this time four spawned while half the big ones hanve't even popped

it's shots are more spread out now as well, making it harder to group them

[acoustic sphinx]

Does Heph/Hera duo work if you have Heph's special/attack on cooldown, or is it strictly no boon?

[tired fulcrum]

No boon

[acoustic sphinx]

Ty

[tired fulcrum]

Idk exactly tbh, did they say anything about chary in patch notes

[inner ivy]

was wondering too, wish it did tbh, could lower to 150% or smth

[inner ivy]

patch notes are honestly missing quite a few things though

[tired fulcrum]

True

[inner ivy]

salty about my loss, but i guess it lets me see loss dialogues cause i only have 11 losses lol

[strange kite]

there’s loss dialogue?

[inner ivy]

from npcs

[strange kite]

like in the crossroads?

[spare kite]

There's always Od's awful advice

[strange kite]

i just never payed too much attention i guess

[inner ivy]

oh i guess ill get to see that now 💀

[inner ivy]

always felt he was kinda useless cause his scouting is basic a vague observation of what I literally just experienced

[strange kite]

odysseus is useless

[white vessel]

whats the best weapon atm? and what's best axe aspect

[spare kite]

Worse advice than hypnos

[strange kite]

like why cant odysseus say something useful like “u can focus down 1 siren to make the fight easier” or “ stay behind cerberus” or “stick close to eris and dodge behind her”

[inner ivy]

damn is he supposed to be a joke character or smth?

[tender anvil]

Any advise on Torches?

[strange kite]

all perfectly reasonable advice that isnt too complicated

[spare kite]

He's supposed to be a "genius tactician" so uh

[tired fulcrum]

Moros can do 45 if you get hit less than me

[inner ivy]

lol same as in hades 1, the loss dialogues don't make sense at all because i've finished so many runs already

[spare kite]

There's a lot of complains on how Od has been written for a reason

[strange kite]

wait wait or odysseus should be reworked into training mode

talk to odysseus and enter training mode with options for each boss

[inner ivy]

i just died on 32 heat eos so not one to give advice :')

[strange kite]

boom problem solved

[inner ivy]

ohh didn't know

[strange kite]

odysseus is just sorta useless npc

btw is selene meta or still meh?

[inner ivy]

wtf no new dialogue from ody, hecate isn't there, and only got bmed by nemesis and comforted by moros and dora

[high orbit]

new wolf howl seems promising seeing as its so cheap and you can get it hella cheap with PoS so you can almost spam it

[tired fulcrum]

Id consider grabbing selene if she was rerollable

[strange kite]

but no selene reroll. do the other powers have any used? healing got nerfed so selene isnt strictly better now

why is selene the one boon that isnt rerollable?

[spare kite]

Hammer in disguise

[strange kite]

crappy hammer

[weak cosmos]

Selene is a lot more fun

[high orbit]

selene is just call replacement really

[sour cape]

A lot of them are good with upgrades but yea... base hexes suck

[strange kite]

i dont want fun. i want win

[high orbit]

you can win with or without selene

[sour cape]

Well wolf howl you can get it down to like 30 mana and spam it giving free crits

[weak meteor]

I think it'd be nice if taking Selene gave you the amount of moon points you qualify for on the upgrade path right away.

[sour cape]

Total Eclipse has 4s of invuln

[weak cosmos]

moon beam with drop and run + triple beam upgrades does a lot of damage (several thousand)

[strange kite]

but i dont want to gamba on getting a good hex and then hoping for upgrade

[civic ocean]

I think hexes are winning at 32 now

[strange kite]

gambling is bad for the soul

[high orbit]

you can get upgrades with the keepsake tho right?

[strange kite]

does the keepsake even guarantee an upgrade spawn?

[grizzled tartan]

No

[spare kite]

Lol, lmao (nah)

[strange kite]

then its just useless

[high orbit]

i feel like it should

[tired fulcrum]

Assuming path of stars even shows up

[worldly oriole]

Ok if you take Split Spark with the new Eos, you can have like 4 big ghosties out at once... it's been too chaotic for me to tell if they all copy your special but the AoE explosion is OP enough by itself

[spare kite]

Just haha yes! Your path of stars

[cinder palm]

Does anyone feel like hestia's legendary and fire extinguisher are kinda anti synergy with each other?

[strange kite]

this is so dumb. why would the keepsake not guarantee a path of stars?

it makes literally no sense considering how much investment a whole keepsake is

[high orbit]

tis only early access things will change

[civic ocean]

tbf I don't think I've ever gotten a Selene boon and not been offered a PoS

[high orbit]

PoS shows up pretty often yeah

[tired fulcrum]

Wait really

[civic ocean]

And they're really cheap in shops now too like 108 gold with Dest 2?

[tired fulcrum]

Very

[high orbit]

i didnt enjoy the new Eos stopping my attack once the special happens

[civic ocean]

Hestia's Legendary misunderstands what Scorch is trying to do, sadly.

[forest oxide]

Sorry if this is a tired question but rq who’s a good god for new eos attack and special hehe

[proven orbit]

I would call it redundancy rather than antisynergy tbh

[inner ivy]

ok ephyra just gave me some waves of enemies with one single enemy. a single bird wtf?

[civic ocean]

Here comes heracles

[inner ivy]

literally just a waste of my time. i swear enemies are broken this patch

[cinder palm]

Yeah like what the point of faster tick time if you have fire extinguisher it'd just make building scorch harder

[inner ivy]

no, it wasn't the first wave. in the middle or last

[civic ocean]

oh interesting

[cinder palm]

Imo fire extinguisher should've been her legendary tbh

[gloomy plinth]

Imo fire extinguisher shouldn't deal damage at a lower percentage than retail

[cinder palm]

Doesn't it make building scorch to 300 harder if the scorch ticks faster tho?

[inner ivy]

possibly it was an unlucky rev, but it literally started spawning after i killed the last enemy left

[proven orbit]

Yes, but since extinguisher isn't allowed to grow past 100% you don't get any extra damage from triggering it

Global damage increases affect both scorch and extinguisher equally. Right?

[civic ocean]

A really easy and really powerful legendary for Hestia is just "you apply double Scorch"

[cinder palm]

That's her and demeter duo

[inner ivy]

im also getting more common boons than usual after the patch, idk if it's ujst me being unlucky

[inner ivy]

application isnt the problem though, it's the dps

[sour cape]

Application kinda is too

You dont really apply a lot per hit

[civic ocean]

There are already some really good workarounds for Scorch's DPS, and with more application, it would also strengthen both origination and fire extinguisher as well as the Demeter and Zeus duos

[inner ivy]

hm feels fine for me with fast weapons personally

[sour cape]

its like the same or lower scaling than Poseidon

and Poseidons should be lower since he gets the dmg immediately

[inner ivy]

I'd stack enemies' whole health bar with scorch before they die so

[inner ivy]

those are both application duos iirc?

[sour cape]

Well with Poseidon they'd either be dead or you'd phase the boss faster and not just be wasting all the scorch during an invuln phase

Not counting duos

[inner ivy]

yea exactly, which is why hestia is basically inferior in every way in comparison

[sour cape]

If she applied more scorch than Poseidon, at least the pay off would be more per hit

even if not as fast or wave aoe 🙏

[urban pendant]

On the other hand, just equipping the keepsake gives the extra upgrade points. You don't need to keep it on until you run into a path of stars pickup, and they're common as dirt in the Fields

[civic ocean]

I think it's fine to throw the keepsake on once you get floor 1 selene'd in erebus but also like

Competition for keepsakes is tough. Engraved Pin, Aromatic Phial, Experimental Hammer, these are all just absolutely bananas keepsakes, AND with a 4 god pool you're more likely to be taking god keepsakes into Oceanus and Fields.

[steel sequoia]

i filled a path of stars and still useless before patch, they nerfed the healing one now. i dont think it worth the investment of leaving a boon you need to get selene.

[inner ivy]

ephyra gold with heracles totaled to 127. For me that's the highest ive seen by far. Is that a normal number for anyone?

[proven orbit]

Seems very high

Highest I saw with heracles was total of 65

[inner ivy]

a few enemies did revive, but that is around double of the normal for me

[civic ocean]

Some of the damage ones, like Wolf Howl and Lunar Ray, are now pretty primo pickups early on, though I don't think I'd ever seek out Selene at 32.

She is probably work picking up in early Charon stores now if you don't want the god boon

[inner ivy]

hammer too rng for me personally, prefer chaos over hammer cause it doesnt mess you up

[proven orbit]

I guess it doesn't help my bias against selene that I tend to play close to 0 mana setups

[steel sequoia]

lunar ray is the 3s beam? i tested and felt awful

also they nerfed dark side? i was shocked lmao

[inner ivy]

only feels good if you can get the upgrade where you don't need to stand around

[inner ivy]

too easy to get almost perma invulny i think

[tired fulcrum]

If you get the auto aim upgrade you can also cancel the start up animation by dashing or something

[steel sequoia]

but at 40% you barely hit stuff for a good dmg, dont feel it worth a room imo

like you cant hit hippos, crabs, wolves anyway

[spare kite]

Which they moved to a purple node apparently

[inner ivy]

also damn, do you let him do all the work xD

[proven orbit]

I do suppose the pickrate was through the roof

[proven orbit]

No, thats total, the actual split was smth like 25 heracles 40 mel

[civic ocean]

You have to know the odds for experimental hammer, there are way fewer hammers that brick builds now so it can be quite good.

[wild pine]

Hestia attack and special are much worse than poseidon attack and special. But everything else she has is better than most anything else poseidon has. Better cast, better sprint, better gain, better infusion, ranged cast, omega spesh modifier, etc.

[inner ivy]

another 3/3 common boons...I think 11/15 boon choices so far are common

[steel sequoia]

maybe u shut down arcana buffs?

[inner ivy]

nope both rare and epic is on

idk if luck just automatically goes down at 32 smh. havent done one in a while

[steel sequoia]

not at all no

[sour cape]

I dont think there's any hammer anymore that disables Omegas actually

[steel sequoia]

pos is like S tier, hestia is like D

[weak cosmos]

demeter is the only s tier god

[random rover]

Idk, I think Hestia is good other than Scorch really needing to be adjusted.

[steel sequoia]

demeter and hera S+ pos and heph S

[civic ocean]

Better gain and infusion is debatable, Double Up, Hydraulic Might, Slippery Slope are all generally better than Hestia's supportive boons

They're closer to each other than people think, but Poseidon is really, really good. If I could only pick 4 gods that I had to play every single run with for the rest of the pre-god balancing patch, Poseidon would 100% be one of them, and Hestia certainly would not

[proven orbit]

Do the new attack speed hammers let you autoattack still or did it turn into mash simulator?

[sour cape]

Idk if thats even the case.

1. Poseidon cast is arguably not worse and is riddled with bugs (not counting cast dmg upgrades)

2. Better sprint: Agree

3. Better gain is really weapon dependent, Daggers are fine with Poseidon and prob prefer that over losing 20% hp.

4. Infusion wise, Poseidons also very good, 4 major finds for 1 boon is a great deal.

[steel sequoia]

you can argue aphro is S with me, hestia no

[sour cape]

Mash simulator I think 😭

[proven orbit]

💀

[distant ocean]

still a momus simp B)

[sour cape]

Demeters my only S god, never unhappy to see gramma 😎

[gloomy plinth]

S++ Dionysus tho

[distant ocean]

fax

[strange kite]

dem is A hera is S pos is S+ for me

[steel sequoia]

this is my tierlist https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684945888585842701/1248001710350143548/Sem_titulo.jpg?ex=666213aa&is=6660c22a&hm=b83b9116e89b056a8ac5c90cb8fdc779cbe027f48047d75cdc8dca28897adc3d&

[civic ocean]

I think if you go into each run with a plan every god is S

[distant ocean]

all correct but artemis and apollo are s tier

[strange kite]

artemis is S????

[distant ocean]

yah

[proven orbit]

Artemis S++ for a room with no timer and PP

[strange kite]

isnt her numbers like super trash?

[sour cape]

All the gods are S for some build

[strange kite]

fair thats actually true

[distant ocean]

death warrant is a spicy meatboll by itself

[strange kite]

zeus is worst god for me

[sour cape]

So id rate for versatility across weapons and I find myself always wanting Demeter

[gloomy plinth]

Also Artemis shouldn't really count imo since you don't "pick an Artemis" over other gods you just get one

[proven orbit]

Well, the actual best artemis boon is the cast one but PP is funnier and easier on the mind

[strange kite]

hestia > zeus

[distant ocean]

the amount of dps artemis can give your build is higher than any other boon lol

[weak cosmos]

Demeter is so much better than the others that if demeter is s the next highest is b. She has 2 curses, best curse, omega attack damage, max hp, rare crop and a cheap hitshield

[distant ocean]

even if you only walk away with 8% crit chance that beats so many other offensive boons

[sour cape]

Only thing of Demeter thats bad is her gain and is still ok if you try hard to make it work 💀

[distant ocean]

first blood is really good for clearance too esp with antler

[strange kite]

isnt she like way lower than 8%?

[gloomy plinth]

The seed health thing is p goofy too

[steel sequoia]

i tend to search hermes more than artemis, find it more usefull tbh

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1248002343895695510/image.png?ex=66621441&is=6660c2c1&hm=23179fd409b6458d56a70eec5a64b7bfc556609ed56c8e6e793c4c38fb514e00& I find this so interesting tbh

[strange kite]

i thought it was like 3% or something?

i cant read that

[distant ocean]

the base one is

[civic ocean]

Like those 5 gods specifically combined give me like 80+% WR at 32 over the last month, 100% over the current June volume challenge

[distant ocean]

808 wr?

[strange kite]

im like fairly certain its 3% or something stupid

[steel sequoia]

its not like hestia is trash or something, also S and S+ its because the gods are really close

[gloomy plinth]

808" 32+F

[strange kite]

i which is why arty kinda bleh

[sour cape]

The god I use the least is Aphro tbh

[civic ocean]

80% wr

32+F

im at work go easy on me

[distant ocean]

that's for the base, death warrent and first blood slap, also the procs are inda nice, arrows on hit and stuff, kinda deece

[strange kite]

i dont like zeus because i dont see what the point of zeus is

[weak meteor]

The point of Zeus is more Zeus.

[sour cape]

Hes got so much cast dmg

[gloomy plinth]

Was all in good fun

[sour cape]

And AQ

[weak meteor]

Zeus is very synergistic with Zeus.

[gloomy plinth]

Also though, do you draw % as two interlocked nines?

[sour cape]

Yep yep

[strange kite]

cast damage i guess

[steel sequoia]

its an overall rank, i know airfryer is strong, but you cant airfryer a charon aspect. i ranked by the boon utility with all weaps

[weak meteor]

But seriously though, his Cast build is very strong against bosses, and if you have a good Blitz effect, you can keep popping it while the cast goes off.

[steel sequoia]

the only thing i can argue with is aphro being S, but i think the pos suport is better.

[tired fulcrum]

Even though blitz is weird zeus is kinda good

[distant ocean]

apollo legendary i think makes him s.

[mystic bison]

Storm Ring is good in room clears too

[sour cape]

Dem is my only S rank 🙏

[gloomy plinth]

And 1 hera ofc (so you can duo and increase your Zeus levels tho)

[civic ocean]

The point of Zeus is that Storm Ring is like bazonkas damage, probably the best individual damage boon in the game on floor 1?

[strange kite]

i think zeus and hestia are the least generically good but maybe axe players say poseidon isnt generically good either so whatever

[distant ocean]

Apollo legendary is double the pleasure, double the fun.

[gloomy plinth]

Legendaries too hard to get to change rankings now imo

[steel sequoia]

the pos sup is good for axe tho

[strange kite]

legendaries suck

[distant ocean]

Yeah fair enough.

[mystic bison]

At the end of the day all the gods are build, weapon and fear dependent

[weak meteor]

Zeus is a god that doesn't do too well being splashed... Usually. He's got some splashable boons.

[strange kite]

unuseable after the nerf

[wild pine]

is rare crop actually good?

[civic ocean]

Yeah I really don't like god tierlists

[weak cosmos]

yes before tartarus

[distant ocean]

they're good for discussion

[steel sequoia]

yup, i think aphro, zeus and hestia are too intensive on their own.

[civic ocean]

It's like ranking mechanics tools

[gloomy plinth]

and the four god pool too

[strange kite]

dood i think the devs hate legendaries and duos fr fr

[weak meteor]

Hestia has her Sprint and her sacrifice boon as good splashes, and the ranged Cast option.

[distant ocean]

I think ranking things based on subjective experience promotes healthy discussion

[gloomy plinth]

Duos are a smidgen better with the one card at least but yea lol

[strange kite]

like wtf is this insane nerf was legendaries breaking the game or something?

[weak meteor]

Why are we starting this debate again

[distant ocean]

There's nothing wrong with tierlists, it's just not everyone is ever going to agree on it

[gloomy plinth]

I didn't know there was ever a debate

[mystic bison]

Ideally rare crop is taken in Erebus or Oceanus, Erebus is especially optimal because you have very few boons - likely just your main dmg boon so you can be sure Rare Crop will target it with certainty

[distant ocean]

eh :T

[strange kite]

because i cant stand this change even though it doesnt affect pan much it just means that whenever the meta becomes a specific legendary the game is gonna suck

[wild pine]

Last night we had a long discussion in this channel about the ins and outs of building for duos and legendaries and likely consequences of the Forsaking change.

[gloomy plinth]

Oh ah

[strange kite]

or specific duo or whatever cuz u cant guarantee it and itll be resetfest

[mystic bison]

Let's hope the boon patch will tweak some stuff making getting them more consistent

[steel sequoia]

i dont usually gets rare crop bc i normally plan to boost a common into heroic through keepsake.

[wild pine]

I'm not gonna comment on those issue again. But, Captainfall did just not open a slightly different topic, why the devs made this change now.

[mystic bison]

At this point hunting for legendaries is a fool's endeavor

[wild pine]

I do have something brief to say on that.

[civic ocean]

brief eh

[gloomy plinth]

I mean, I feel at baseline that we can all agree that a thing meant to make the game harder by design shouldn't have been making it easier

[strange kite]

yes this

[mystic bison]

That's one keepsake you could have used for Chaos, or another god or smth else

[steel sequoia]

yeah but 20% fountain heal in oceanus for me is good

[weak meteor]

I really do need to level Chaos's keepsake at some point. It seems fun.

[gloomy plinth]

But with that removed I think the one arcana card that increases duo% really needs to also increase legendary %

[mystic bison]

Ye but the thing is Legendaries are very hard to get by default because they have a lot of prereqs, Forsaking was the only thing making it somewhat consistent

[distant ocean]

duos aren't strong enough by themselves to every feel special enough to be as rare as they are :T

[strange kite]

ive always considered this to be untrue. i think a meant to be harder but actually universally easier is a good thing because it makes u think about the implications of the vows and how u can take advantage of them.

[distant ocean]

legendaries aswell, there were only a couple that felt good enough to seek anyways.

and I think that's a failing of design just as much as what bistro said.

[strange kite]

i dont think its wrong for “this option will make the game harder” to actually make the game easier once u understand what ur doing

[steel sequoia]

also i usually have a good rate of turning the main dmg boon of my build into heroic so its fair, and than i just go for Blackened Fleece, also saves me some primming mana

[distant ocean]

Fix all of the problems not just the one that makes you seem vindictive to the player base.

[sour cape]

At this point, I would be

S: Demeter

A: Poseidon, Apollo, Hera, Heph, Zeus

B: Hestia, Aphrodite

[mystic bison]

You need to get your god at least 3 times, hope you roll the prereqs you need, and only by the 4th time are you eligible to get it (you won't) and this is while you have to juggle 3 other gods as well

[inner ivy]

did charibys always shoot extra random shot while the tentacles are up? idk if i normally just kill it too fast

[weak meteor]

They did that last patch too, yeah.

[sour cape]

A and B are pretty close for me tbf

[strange kite]

even with forsaking, u dont get the legs and duos before u exhaust the boon pool sufficiently anyways

[weak meteor]

During her last phase, Chary shoots fireballs while the tentacles are up as well.

[wild pine]

Earlier, I defended the merits of actually making duos and legos rare on purpose and keeping them this way. But, I have no idea whether the devs actually want to do that, and I don't think this change is good evidence of that.

Whether you want duos and legos to be easy to get or hard, I think we can all agree it was weird for a vow which is presented as a +2 difficulty increaser make them much easier to get than they are normally. I suspect the devs aren't happy with that dynamic, regardless of how overall common they want special boons to be.

It seems clear that the patch they just shipped was the "weapons and hexes" patch, with other systems getting only a handful of tweaks to egregiously weird issues and problems. I strongly suspect that they are separately working on a "boons patch" and it might even be the next one to release.

If they want people to be able to get legendaries more easily, I suspect that they'll do it by increasing legendary chance when they drop their boon overhaul patch, not by reverting the Forsaken update to reinstte the exact gameplay style from laucnh day.

[gloomy plinth]

I agree, I want legends to be easier to get, but hiding it behind the vows was weird and also it never felt intentional (to me at least)

[uncut zodiac]

i feel like the thing w legendaries and duos is that the upgrade for duo chance (NONE for legendary exists yet) requires you to gimp yourself so hard compared to the first game where you could increase them for basically no drawback

[distant ocean]

more control over the rng is generally preferable.

[inner ivy]

okay ty

[wild pine]

Oh, good point -- They might actually use the Arcana patch, whenever they drops, to give us better access to duo/legos.

[strange kite]

well they could make prepatch forsaking just forsaking 1 a 0 heat vow. and then make post patch forsaking forsaking 2 a non 0 heat vow

[inner ivy]

damn 32 heat surface is hard

[mystic bison]

Forsaking doesn't have to be it, but there need to be some ways where we can game the rng in our favour

This has always been the main point of the Hades games once you're experienced with the game I feel

[inner ivy]

maybe im just bad sigh

[distant ocean]

more control over rng wouldn't even need to be preferable if there weren't so many bad options.

[inner ivy]

ran out of time this run, wasn't even close

[strange kite]

like i think a 0 heat forsaking that can be turn up to post patch behaviour would solve the issue

[distant ocean]

Fix the options and you fix the need for that thing lol

[mystic bison]

RNG is nice and fun, but only when learning the ropes and trying to get a feel of what synergies work best

After that it loses it's magic

[gloomy plinth]

Ephyra timer is rough

[strange kite]

i think more control over rng is generally better than less.

[limpid coral]

have blessings that give negative fear like slice and dice and make old forsaking one of them 🤔

[wild pine]

It's definitely rough. Timer is brutal just because of the area design and the enemies are so much more aggressive and have so many more ways to defeat blocks and cast-traps that the speed increasers are also much more painful.

[strange kite]

i dont like this much rng for duos and legendaries

[mystic bison]

There are some roguelikes which thrive on total randomness, but Hades is not it.

[civic ocean]

It was pretty obviously not intended for a 2 fear vow to be increasing your odds of seeing a legendary or duo boon from 10% to 100% right like I think we can all agree that them changing that specifically indicates that yeah?

[steel sequoia]

ive done with old momus, now i cant make underground lmao

[wild pine]

And you can't really get to 32 without timer or speed ups unless you go full +damage taken and no heal.

[distant ocean]

ofcourse I woudln't want the same exact run over and over ideally, but when every run is similarly missing everything you need then it kinda just becomes the same run over and over in the less enjoyable way.

[uncut zodiac]

forsaking was def op and had to be nerfed considering it was more of a tool with some learning curve than a drawback, but i think the default odds of legendaries and duos rn are too cruel, especially now that you'll literally just run out of boons and have to pray you roll for your lego or get Nothing at all

[weak meteor]

You'll get there!

[steel sequoia]

yup, im in no hurry i dont even know whats fully in the patch rn

[uncut zodiac]

i feel like if you're completely dry on boons, they should have at least a higher than base chance to show up, just not 100%

[strange kite]

seriously just making a heat 0 version of forsaking and id be happy

[distant ocean]

i'm sure you'll get there! :']

[inner ivy]

anyone here has done 32f surface and has advice?

[strange kite]

go pan

i did heat 32 underground with pan

[inner ivy]

you've done it?

[weak cosmos]

use staff omega attack and try for vampiric cataclysm

[distant ocean]

white antler and get gud

[steel sequoia]

after trial of haste is the only thing left in the game for me to do now is 32 fear underground, so im in no hurry at all

[strange kite]

uh surface i did with momus

[inner ivy]

surface. ive done underground

[mystic bison]

We can all agree that forsaking was busted and the nerf was warranted, but there is a need for more ways to cope with the rng and now there are not many

[strange kite]

[distant ocean]

I used artemis antler on my first 32 surface lol

[mystic bison]

Anyway high fear surface is hell

[strange kite]

it wasnt busted i disagree

it was beneficial not busted

[inner ivy]

my problem is the double nerf with four gods

[uncut zodiac]

i mean, you still had to build yourself carefully and lock yourself out of some good boons

[strange kite]

and it still is beneficial for me

[distant ocean]

artemis is really solid for people that don't know the ropes yet, the shield makes things very forgiving esp if you're using slow down arcana

[mystic bison]

Yeah that's precisely the point, vows are not supposed to be beneficial

[wild pine]

Right, but it's not supposed to be beneficial. If that level of access to duos and legos is good for the game, they should find a way to give us that without relying on a fear vow

[strange kite]

and id be fine with that

[steel sequoia]

yall storming early access problem too much

[inner ivy]

side note, i got to see a chronos vision taunting me after i loss for the first time lmao

[uncut zodiac]

one time the guaranteed lego/duo actually backfired on me and i got a lego and duo at the same time, and had to choose between the two lol

[strange kite]

but also im not opposed to it being done through a vow

[gloomy plinth]

Even before the 4 gods I felt God's never offered Legos, like it took me 9 runs all trying explicitly for the fates list to get posideons lego

[uncut zodiac]

let us grieve

i probably wont care in like a week lol

[distant ocean]

I would argue that clever use of detriments makes for a satisfying player discovery.

[weak meteor]

It's not especially clever though.

[strange kite]

the way i see it i dont look at vows as “this must make the game harder” i just see it as a tool like everything else

[distant ocean]

Turning a bad into a positive. Allowing for such things.

[inner ivy]

what was it lol

[strange kite]

yes exactly. it’s like uhh

emergent gameplay

[distant ocean]

It's clever enough to make you grin when you finally think about it, or read about it in discord

[uncut zodiac]

i forgor.. the main thing was i just wanted to fill out my fated list and both were fated 😭

[wild pine]

I think Forsaking already gives you a reasonable level of fun and skill expression just from the mini-game of shaping your boon pool and using re-rolls to dodge when two desirable boons collide. It doesn't need to also be the only reliable way to hit legos.

[weak meteor]

Is it? Not to me.

[inner ivy]

I also took the eos passive hammer on my run just now and it kinda ruined my run ngl. it's much worse compared to eos

[mystic bison]

I won't lie that I didn't enjoy Forsaking giving me a ton of control over my build, but I am cognizant of the fact that vows are supposed to up the challenge, not make it easier

That's why I want actual tools that will enable me to have control over my build

[gloomy plinth]

But this isn't build dependant or shifting based on new info it's just "oh, this is the new optimal? Huh"

[eager bay]

new eos when u dont get a mana boon and have the chanel faster hammer is pretty annoying

[distant ocean]

It doesn't need to be, but it was more interesting when it was, the problem is there aren't enough boons for forsaking to be even remotely punishing lol

[inner ivy]

it has such a small window since it doesn't linger, and it doesnt grow so it's much harder to hit. your travelling shots miss if you dash to dodge. You gotta be point blank to use it effectively

[weak meteor]

It's not the sort of game where you're supposed to have that much control over your build without major sacrifices.

[wild pine]

Wait, wouldn't more boons make it even less punishing?

[strange kite]

i think if every vow made the game easier i would understand ur problem but the thing is at heat 32, 30 heat of vows are hurting u and only 2 heat worth of vows is helping u

[silent crow]

vow of forsaking is still mostly a buff if ur not going for duos and leggies now

[weak meteor]

You can force legendaries fairly reliably if you go all in on the rerolls /after/ you qualify for the legendary.

[distant ocean]

i think a balanced amount of desirable boons would make it maximally punishing, but as is 1 or 2 boons is generally all you want lol everything else is really uninspired fluff in most builds

[strange kite]

so i dont mind that 2 heats are helpful

[silent crow]

thats stupid

[strange kite]

no it isnt

its fine

[silent crow]

vows should never help you this much

[wild pine]

I strongly predict we will see base duo and lego chances go up, or more duo/lego effects added to arcana and keepsakes and costs readjusted

[distant ocean]

I never face situations where I have to make the hard gamer choice of choosing poseidon's special over poseidon's literally anything else.

[weak meteor]

I'm trying to think of which heat levels were beneficial in Hades 1 and there really wasn't one that was an unalloyed good. The closest thing is the timer that prevented "Hades angy" rooms.

[rich shard]

Did they change Momus?

[weak meteor]

Yes.

[strange kite]

the only thing thats u care enough to not banish is poseidon slip anyways

[silent crow]

that was a downside those rooms paused the ingame timer thats why speedrjns turned off tight deadlime in that game

[wild pine]

Best I can think of is some people found EM3 easier than EM2

[weak meteor]

Those rooms were generally more annoying though. That's the best I could think of.

[rich shard]

Oh no... whats the best now besides Charon axe?

[inner ivy]

i hate em3 lmao

[weak meteor]

The best is following your heart.

[silent crow]

there were some pacts that made the game "easier" in smart ways

for example em2 lernie is more vulnerable to aoe effects bc the heads are closer together

[inner ivy]

was about to say that

[spare kite]

Heightened security allowed faster stubborn defiance resets /j

[weak meteor]

EM3 Theseus was a bit easier to DPS down, same with Lernie... But with a much higher risk.

[wild pine]

with Demeter I usually want freeze cast and cyclone cast and sprint and sometimes weed killer too, all of which lack pre-reqs.

[spare kite]

I never understood em3 easier posts cuz bull is just even more of a menace lmao

[silent crow]

and forced overtime/vow of fury in both games makes enemies spawn faster which lets you clear faster

[weak meteor]

But that's not easier, just faster.

[spare kite]

And theseus can strip acorn for like 5 dmg pokes

[silent crow]

i think people just hate shields

[gloomy plinth]

Well, sorry demeter is so good lol

[proven orbit]

can confirm, hate shield

[strange kite]

i hate satyr shields

[distant ocean]

that's a situation where it only affects people trying to have fun, rather than people playing to some personal challenge in which the vow should be targetting

[rich shard]

Did they change anything else heavily? Patch notes are hard to fully read for me because the wall of text is too big

[strange kite]

i cant really tell when they will block and when they wont

[weak meteor]

Torch is reworked to be better.

[rich shard]

Oooooo?

[civic ocean]

Lots of weapon changes

[strange kite]

momus nerfed to something else. legendaries are unuseable. duos are unreliable

[civic ocean]

Just play all the weapons and you'll notice

[wild pine]

I can't decipher this

[silent crow]

axe special cancels attacks instantly so you can do some epic animation cancels

[strange kite]

momus reworked actually to be specific

[distant ocean]

basically I'm not looking for demeter casts in runs that I'm taking seriously.

[strange kite]

no longer the insane machine gun it was before

[silent crow]

dem cast is good

if theres a couple boons from a god you want forsaking is still going to help more often than not

[distant ocean]

Opposed to when I'm having fun generally

[wild pine]

Why not? Isn't it BIS on anything spamming ranged weapon stuff like Pan or old Momus or maybe some new Torch variants?

[distant ocean]

I don't know what's bis right now, it might be, I could be wrong

[strange kite]

freeze is very good

[weak meteor]

Does... Does "bis" matter in a single player game?

[silent crow]

best in slot

[strange kite]

its damage curse and cc that lets u maintain higher uptime and clear rooms with less damage

[proven orbit]

I mean, of course?

[strange kite]

it does to me

[silent crow]

oh mb jd dint read

[distant ocean]

I know what bis means I don't know what the best in slot things are right now but I wouldn't think it would be demeter

[weak cosmos]

if you can't have your perfect build every run this might not be the game for you bucko

[wild pine]

If you told me that Zeus is always best on high fear because Erebus I'd believe you. I have no idea how much omega cast reliance is currently optimal, what people are using for mana, etc. But of the manaless casts Demeter seems better than Heph, Hesty, Hera, and Aphro in most contexts.

[weak meteor]

This is why everyone plays Azazel in every run of Binding of Isaac, nod nod.

[silent crow]

demeters probably bis yeah

[dim kestrel]

I did this yesterday and it seemed to be bugged. They not only didn't copy the special but they stopped any copying that was already underway on split, and the additional ones didn't expire or do anything, so it just made a lot of clutter

[civic ocean]

Most greeks are bis yeah

[distant ocean]

ofcourse. lol the pursuit of greatness fuels the spirit of competition!

we're playing by ourselves but against a computer opponent.

[civic ocean]

Well, ancient greeks, in myths, sorry

[distant ocean]

so knowing what things are effective and efficient is paramount to beating said opponent.

it matters~ 🥲 and some of us are playing against other players abilities and times

who can play the single player game better lol

[weak meteor]

If you're trying to speedrun I think you're playing under a very different set of rules 😄

[strange kite]

i just want to never lose to computer cuz winning is fun

[distant ocean]

Maybe! 🙂

[weak meteor]

What is easier and more reliable matters less than what is faster, in a speedrunning contest.

[strange kite]

really? dont most people playing this game eventually try speedrunning and heat 32?

[weak meteor]

Statistically no.

[strange kite]

i dont mean like leaderboards

like i speedrun as a personal goal

[digital hazel]

whats the best special for charon axe? im guessing the best cast is apollo

[distant ocean]

the draw of the game beyond the first victory is kind of finding better or more creative ways to beat the game.

[strange kite]

im not beating other people on leaderboards and recording but i try to go as fast as i can and set goals to beat for myself

[weak cosmos]

apollo or demeter

[distant ocean]

I think we're more alike than not! 🥲

[weak meteor]

Only 7.5% of players beat 16 heat in Hades 1.

[spare kite]

I think most people started using fear in this game than most ever do in H1

[distant ocean]

maybe it just leant itself to more player enforced difficulty

[strange kite]

seriously? u cant even fight the bosses in their super form without heat in rhe first game

[spare kite]

People just don't really do these challenges from what I've seen

[strange kite]

i imagine most people wouldve done em4

cuz thats like actual new content right?

[uncut zodiac]

tbf i dont think h2 has built a large casual audience yet

or as large at least

[dim kestrel]

I have no interest in speedrunning, personally

[spare kite]

Also true lol
Early access is for the gameplay obsessed like us kinda

[tired fulcrum]

Speedrunning when hex start exists

[weak meteor]

Speedrunning is also for very specific people, yeah. Same as high heat.

[strange kite]

i dont speedrun leaderboards i just enjoy going fast because i like SPEED

[weak meteor]

Plenty of people also play with godmode on because they just like, want the story experience.

[strange kite]

aye yo dont jinx it

[spare kite]

First modded change
"Removed selene from starts"

[strange kite]

just giving selene rerolls would help a bit

[weak meteor]

So yeah, I wouldn't say that most people care about the optimal weapons. Even among high heat players, I wouldn't say that's the majority.

[dim kestrel]

I will probably do 32 fear at least a few times but mostly because I'm a compulsive completionist and there's a statue. No real desire to go beyond that, or speedrun

[ionic moon]

nah buff hexes until selene start is optimal

[strange kite]

if we can get jump hex reliably at the start then selene might be fine

[strange kite]

TRUE yo i love selene lets go more buffs

[spare kite]

I'd love lesser hexed like calls tbh lol

But also why is wolf howl 40 again, is hilarious

[dusty sapphire]

I believe there's really no world in which selene start is ever good. Even if all the Hexes were pre nerf Moon water level good

[spare kite]

I still need to do a run with it

[dim kestrel]

It's very creative, and pretty fun, though very mana-intensive

to the point where I was running out of mana even with Born Gain

[spare kite]

Oh Persephone is a lot of fun actually using the gimmick constantly

[dim kestrel]

(only base common version, but still)

[spare kite]

Didn't someone do 40f persephone with just unseen

[agile garden]

what do you think of the new persephone i mean

[strange kite]

dood next patch is gonna be hell if they nerf born gain and poseidon special

[dim kestrel]

haven't tried that one yet but I liked perseph before and the patch seems to be playing toward the way I liked to play it

so I expect I will like it

[agile garden]

i had lots of fun with the poseidon instant cast + zeus throwable cast

[strange kite]

theres a chance poseidon special doesnt get nerfed cuz like pan is the last remaining poseidon special abuser

[agile garden]

with born gain

[strange kite]

but born gain is so cooked

[spare kite]

Yeah born gain ain't surviving lmao

[agile garden]

it should be nerfed but i dont want it to be

[spare kite]

I hope the other gains have the ability to regain mid channeling tho

[dim kestrel]

apparently people are liking Poseidon attack on torches now since the attack speed was buffed, though I haven't tried this myself yet

[ionic moon]

they will nerf born gain and Poseidon in the same patch that they buff other mana economy and flat damage options

[agile garden]

maybe up the numbers to like 40 or 50 for born gain

[strange kite]

god damnit torches plz dont be op

[lean atlas]

welp, apollo legendary doesn't work with momus

[weak meteor]

Yup.

[strange kite]

i mean poseidon special isnt op anymore i think

[agile garden]

idk

[distant ocean]

eh well~ hopefully they don't end up making the game stale

[weak meteor]

Very broken right now. I reported that too.

[dim kestrel]

that seems excessive

[spare kite]

Born gain is just that good

[agile garden]

yeah that should be the base or smth

[strange kite]

i mean like is pan even better than medea and charon right now?

it might not be

[agile garden]

i like pan but it seems a bit hammer heavy

[dim kestrel]

Born Gain has particularly good scaling, since linear reduction to prime amount is a superlinear increase to mana capacity

[strange kite]

if charon is 1 boon build

[weak cosmos]

maybe have it at 20 or 25 (seems more reasonable) and poms/rarity could affect something else

[agile garden]

yeah maybe

[strange kite]

or if medea is a 1 boom build

[agile garden]

or percentage perhaps

[tired fulcrum]

Also with how it scales by max mana

[dim kestrel]

right

[weak cosmos]

or give born gain to chaos

[strange kite]

idk honestly i want the most consistent and strongest always win build for heat 32

[dim kestrel]

born gain could be better balanced by just becoming a multiplier for your mana capacity and subsequent mana gain, instead of an actual gain boon

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1164101586138710037/1248013560915955732/Hades_II_2024-06-04_15-43-42.mp4?ex=66621eb3&is=6660cd33&hm=81ab8f543d84c393177f946f3bf2d17b3ffd91df436c6d84a6a468ba6a9db767& also funny born gain't bug

[weak cosmos]

Demeter keepsake skull normal attack easy win

[spare kite]

@feral yacht did you disable swift runner by accident (regarding the dash)

[agile garden]

its called god mode in the settings

[inner ivy]

70% healthy rebound didn't heal me at 87/115. Bugged?

[strange kite]

nah

[agile garden]

im kidding

[feral yacht]

nope

[agile garden]

idk

[inner ivy]

lol so you have the option but you don't take it. stop crying

[proven orbit]

vow of scars?

[inner ivy]

50%

[proven orbit]

hm

[dim kestrel]

or it could, like, prime a % of your unprimed mana capacity, so your capacity decays exponentially with refills instead of linearly

[proven orbit]

I wouldn't discount the possibility it halves the threshold instead of halving the heal but that would be really jank

[spare kite]

#h2-feedback message
I've seen it mentioned before

[civic ocean]

Out of curiosity what build do you think currently has the longest active known winstreak at 32 Fear

[dim kestrel]

mixing up Occam's Razor with Zeno's paradox in the ancient Greek game, tsch

[frosty gale]

Yeah, I can see adding 5 or so to the amount primed being a good idea.

Through if one does that, than one should buff the counter attack when hit stuff.

Anyone done anything with spiteful strength.

[inner ivy]

hmm doesn't seem like the same thing though. it started working fine the next room

[civic ocean]

A lot of stuff has been done with SS yeah. High Fear players love themselves a coarse grit triple earth.

[strange kite]

momus?

[distant ocean]

probably, but who keeps track of winstreak

[strange kite]

if u say eos im gonna cry

[civic ocean]

I think the longest one we know of right now is Persephone Air Quality Scorch at 7

[dim kestrel]

If each time it refilled it primed, say, 20% of your unprimed capacity, this would produce an effective mana capacity of 5x your starting amount (so, 100 -> 500), which is comparable to the R1 Common now (550 with 100 base). Then upgrades could reduce that to, say, 18, 16, 15, 14, etc. Say the Heroic version started at 12% or something. That'd keep the scaling better controlled than reducing a fixed prime I think

[strange kite]

7? that seems kinda low

[distant ocean]

🥲

[strange kite]

for heat 32 if we consider momus existing

[civic ocean]

Not a lot of people actively winstreaking yeah

You're welcome to top it of course

[distant ocean]

if air quality scorch is on top of anything it's a fluke.

that has no one competing with anything else.

[dim kestrel]

yeah, how many people are just running the same weapon at the same fear repeatedly, especially after successful runs? I would think most people are either rotating weapons or ratcheting up fear, or both

[strange kite]

i dont know if im good enough to top it myself (post patch) but im 100% sure somebody else can

[strange kite]

me. right here

[distant ocean]

how easy is it to even get AQ going now lol

[strange kite]

pan poseidon all day every day.

[strange kite]

idk. but like the forsaking didnt change infusion right?

[civic ocean]

Yeah I do rotating atm, I have an unrecorded 32f all weapons streak, and a 3 streak on flames and a 7 streak on skull atm

[strange kite]

so as long as we can keep getting infusions it shouldnt be that bad

[distant ocean]

aye, aight

[strange kite]

wait is winstreaking like all at once?

like one recording? cuz i cant do that i dont have the energy

[civic ocean]

As in I have won the last 7 32 fear skull runs I have played, the last 3 32 feae Flames runs, etc

Unseeded, Selene start, etc

[strange kite]

like id go for filling out my history page with win win win… and thats sorta stuff but i dont think i can do one recording and just go

yeah i dont know about unseeded.

cuz unseede would imply u do it all at once in one recording

[inner ivy]

what aspects

[frosty gale]

Not actually sure that would work that well. While it be balanced, it feels like the very good scaling should be a appeal of the born again boon, as compared to other mana boons, that recharge the same if you have 20 or 2000 mana.

If one had to get say two extra mana cap raises even with arcana, to get it popping up, that would do a lot to balance it.

In short it should be overpowered if you have a ton of mana, but suck when one has less mana than 80 or so.

[civic ocean]

Mel staff
Art daggers
Mel flames
Charon axe
Pers skull

I am 10 for 20 attempts, trying to kill chronos and eris on stream 40 times each at 32f in a month with no momus no pan

[strange kite]

hot take: born gain can just stay unnerfed and it’ll be fine

[wild pine]

Couldn't you just leave a rolling camera pointed at your machine during your breaks?

[frosty gale]

Basically if one has 100 mana or less, other recharge boons should be a clear winner, if one has 100 to 200 mana, born gain is a solid but not overpowered pick, if one has 200 or more mana, what is this running out of mana that you speak of.

[limpid coral]

if its streamed live then it doesnt really matter what happens between runs

[civic ocean]

Sort of

[limpid coral]

cause if at the start of the run you say this run will count for the streak then win or lose it counts

[civic ocean]

What I have to do if its the first run of the stream, unless I have stopped streaming in the House of Hades, is I have to go die to prove its not seeded

[inner ivy]

oh huh i thought old pers skull was the least popular

[limpid coral]

ah, good point about the seeding thing

so it kinda screws with run history, huh

[inner ivy]

lmao fires didnt go out in thessely and my random boon from hermes spawn on top of it cause i had to pick up the last revenant on it

[tired fulcrum]

I thought they were supposed to have fixed that

[inner ivy]

took like 20 damage picking it up cause it takes a while for i-frames to kick in

[spare kite]

Did you reignite them somehow

[inner ivy]

there goes my healthy rebound

[civic ocean]

It does but its also not like this is a prestigious category that anyone cares about, it's just how I like to play and stream the game

I may accidentally set the WR for all weps 32F which would be neat but it's not about that it's just a fun challenge for me

[inner ivy]

picked up the last rev on fire, fire stayed on

[limpid coral]

yea hades doesnt seem like a game where anyone cares about streaks haha

[inner ivy]

fire just went out after picking my random boon

[limpid coral]

its all about the big curse number

[civic ocean]

I'm inspired by guys like Baalorlord and Jorbs who stream Spire or Brotato challenges so I'll probably just do that, and raise fear as it becomes easier

[limpid coral]

hades ladder streak to 32 when

[inner ivy]

charybdis spawned 3/3 on my runs 💀 right after losing my healthy rebound to a bug smh

[split igloo]

This is untrue, even with max rerolls

[civic ocean]

Well, the base odds for a leg are 10% right

So every time you get offered a boon, is it 1/10 3 times?

[inner ivy]

um i got hit mid dash wtf

[left hound]

someone gimme a build to do rn

[low bear]

Is serenity bugged for some people? On circe

[left hound]

in what way

[low bear]

Sometimes the icon is just full but I'm not recovering mana

[left hound]

you have to use an omega move to activate serenity after the new patch

[weak meteor]

The math is a bit complicated, since it depends on your other boons but...

[low bear]

Oh so if I'm out of mana and serenity fills up I'm screwed?

[weak meteor]

It rolls for Legendary, then for Duo if that fails.

[left hound]

oh i didnt think about that, but yeah i guess so. that does suck

[weak meteor]

And it rolls for each boon. So with a reroll, you have quite a few chances.

[tired fulcrum]

Duos dont impact leg odds but having available cores and priority statuses do

[civic ocean]

Let's say, since 1/10 three times is 27% or so, that including the core boon tomfoolery and such is roughly 25%.

[weak meteor]

Yeah, Legend odds impact Duo odds, but not vice versa.

[civic ocean]

If you burn 3 dice you can reroll for the legendary twice, and that leaves you with a 57% chance or so to get the boon, yes?

[weak meteor]

You can go higher than 3 dice though, no?

[civic ocean]

You would need 6 to reroll 3 times

[tired fulcrum]

Youll usually be burning most of them prior

[weak meteor]

My comment was about spending all your rerolls on the legendary chance, not prior.

[tired fulcrum]

If you do that then half the time you prob wont even get the prereqs

[weak meteor]

Such is life.

[strange kite]

such is why legendaries sucks

[civic ocean]

Yes but it's even more unlikely that you'll get a legendary if you skimp on the rerolls with Forsaking

If Crashing Wave and Slippery Slope are up against each other on Poseidon for instance you must reroll that

[strange kite]

and are completely unuseable now and ur better off doing anything else

[weak meteor]

Yes, forcing legendaries is a bad idea, don't do it.

[split igloo]

if you burn all ten rerolls on trying for the legendary after you're eligible it's roughly a 2/3 chance of happening

assuming it is 10%

[weak meteor]

But you can certainly get it reliably if you're very much trying to do so.

[weak meteor]

In this new world, you don't use Forsaking either I'd say.

[split igloo]

reliable and 2/3 of the time aren't quite the same thing lol

[weak meteor]

66% is fairly reliable in my book 😄

[civic ocean]

Sure but this is a different argument than "the legendary isn't that hard to get if you save your rerolls for it"

Because like...it really isn't, not the least of which is that if you burn away more boons if you miss, your odds get even worse, right

[split igloo]

"it doesn't work nearly half the time" cannot be construed as reliable by any reasonable metric lol

[civic ocean]

Isn't there a literal Anchorman joke about this

[strange kite]

it takes a bazillion rerolls just for it to not work is the opposite of reliable

[civic ocean]

"60% of the time it works every time"

[weak meteor]

I never said it works every time though ^^

Just fairly reliably, if you're stupidly focusing all your arcana onto it.

Or you could play normally and let it happen if it happens.

[inner ivy]

rip, had a good run only to die to time against eris last phase.

[tired fulcrum]

I cant even guarantee a core boon i want with 10 rerolls

[civic ocean]

It's kinda hard to stupidly focus your arcana onto it

[proven orbit]

frrrr

[low bear]

I see yeah good thing I took tranquil gain but I thought I wouldn't need it

[civic ocean]

10 rerolls is just good arcana usage

[strange kite]

i dont believe in charon

[weak meteor]

10 rerolls sure, 10 rerolls to force one boon, less.

[strange kite]

its too expensive and i want to take other arcana

[inner ivy]

She summoned 3 elite barrels instead ffs

[weak meteor]

Then you can't complain if you can't always get the legendary you want.

[strange kite]

i dont know if its actually bad

but i think its good just not ideal on charon heat

[inner ivy]

I did misplay because i totally forgot i had psychic whirlwind sigh. forgot cause i left to do smth. But also run messed up from the from losing healthy rebound to a bug

[weak meteor]

That sucks. Next time!

[strange kite]

and ur better off trying to get other stuff over the 4 rerolls and starting money and u can just take max charon heat and itll be better

[civic ocean]

You should think of Boatman's text as reading "you can get a boon from Charon 1 even on Destitution II. Also, gain 4 rerolls"

[strange kite]

yes i know

[tired fulcrum]

I take boatman with poverty vow so i can actually buy something at erebus midshop

I need those boons

[strange kite]

its 1 boon + 4 rerolls

[civic ocean]

A boon in erebus is rly big ya

[past salmon]

poverty vow goes hard

[strange kite]

yes but also it’s still one random boon in midshop at best

[tired fulcrum]

Idk that boon could mean not getting murdered/timing out

[civic ocean]

Thats pretty good compared to no boon

Also charon got very slightly better with the time stopping

[strange kite]

it feels overcosted for the benefit and it means ur not taking other stuff like hunt

[tired fulcrum]

300 gold when a poverty II boon costs 270 is stonks

[strange kite]

thats the opposite of stonks

[tired fulcrum]

More reliable than artificer

[strange kite]

300 when u have 150 cost boon is stonks

[tired fulcrum]

+1 erebus boon is stonks

[civic ocean]

I think you can find room for hunt and boat pretty easy

[tired fulcrum]

Cuz erebus sucks ass

[civic ocean]

Giving up like Death and stuff is smrt

[strange kite]

u want me to turn off dash?

aye yo say that again? give up death defiance?

[civic ocean]

No, the death arcana lmao

[strange kite]

oh that

yeah i already turn it off. no what im taking is the shield plus the omega damage boost plus the slow time plus the dash

and ofc orig and death def and plus health mana

[civic ocean]

Omega dmg boost whats that

[strange kite]

uhhh wait not omega i meant cast

i dont know what its called

[civic ocean]

Do you always take cast and hunt

That seems inefficient

[strange kite]

i always take cast dash slow at least and i like to take shield

[civic ocean]

Oh furies nvm

[limpid coral]

what's shield?

[civic ocean]

Lovers

[strange kite]

the one that blocks hits from kronos

and cerb

[civic ocean]

Are you still running Strength

[strange kite]

no

[civic ocean]

What is ur 5+ cost

[strange kite]

well i consider it

wait hold on what is my 5+ cost

[civic ocean]

Or are you turning off centaur that way

[strange kite]

wait i miiight be an idiot

no nvm charon is goated

[weak meteor]

Turning off Centaur seems silly. Centaur is so nice.

[civic ocean]

Mostly just a white antler thing

[strange kite]

ignore me its either charon or strength i think i was confusing myself cuz of that time i was playing with strength on

[civic ocean]

Yeah we have almost the same setup probs

[strange kite]

and that time i played with rare boons for some reason dont ask why

[limpid coral]

is excellence worth? its like a decent numerical increase on a bunch of perks

[civic ocean]

I just swap hunt and moon and sorc and wayward depending on what im clickin

And then sometimes Artificer

[weak meteor]

I can see that for speedrunning, but having the extra breathing room is nice for me. And you can still get White Antler + Strength for some low health violence.

[civic ocean]

Arrogance is too much fear for Excellence and divinity to be good, if that makes sense?

[limpid coral]

It's 3 points i guess yea

[civic ocean]

If you're playing low or no fear excellence and divinity could be quite good depending on build

[strange kite]

i dont actually pay attention to arrogance

[dusty sapphire]

it's 4 points of fear at max

[civic ocean]

4 pts ya

[limpid coral]

The 1 point is free even with a lot of rare perks

[strange kite]

i pick up high rarity boon if i think its good for me and just ignore the priming

[inner ivy]

anyone playing surface? I'm not staggering elite anchors even if im hitting their hp

[civic ocean]

Yeah some boys don't stagger easy, can't remember

[weak meteor]

Anchors are burly boys.

[civic ocean]

The units on Olympus are going to be absolute gigachads

[strange kite]

surface enemies are hell

[limpid coral]

Like even with the extra 3 points of curse. You lose the ability to spam charge attacks as much at the start of a room, but get a pretty big number on the perk

[carmine lagoon]

does glorious disaster work on charon axe?

[civic ocean]

Yeah it's not too bad for sure, it's just that with the god keepsake and the keepsake from Narc you can already do a lot to work on rarities for the boons you want

[civic ocean]

Sure does, so does Torrential Downpour

[lean atlas]

Just tried new Than and it's epic

[limpid coral]

Ah true, the keepsakes. I haven't been levelling them as much as I probably should

[weak meteor]

Arrogance doesn't look at rarified perks from Narc, right?

[lean atlas]

nuh uh

[civic ocean]

Arrogance does not interact with any rarity changes beyond boon select.

[lean atlas]

You can also just pom your boons to take it off anyway

probably gonna get patched later

[limpid coral]

Oh, I thought someone said the proper upbringing or something also triggered the curse? Whatever it is that increases rarity on existing perks

[weak meteor]

Hera will not tolerate common perks.

[civic ocean]

I haven't experienced that yet, only the opposite.

[limpid coral]

Oh neat

[lean atlas]

proper upbringing triggers just because it's an infusion, the rarified boons don't get affected by Arrogance

[limpid coral]

Infusions have rarity?

[civic ocean]

Common rarity

[limpid coral]

I remember once i picked bridal glow for the heck of it and it picked the infusion thats +damage per earth, put it to +25%

Didn't know you could increase those

[lean atlas]

actually, I was mistaken. It triggered for me on Proper Upbringing only, not other infusions

I'll test it now

[strange kite]

yo am i tripping? hook knives was super nerfed right? i read that it lost damage bonus but the #hades2-patch-notes doesnt say it

whats going on?

[inner ivy]

ffs fishing for born gain on 4 runs with hera in the pool, still haven't gotten it and now i get offered queen's random instead 💀

[limpid coral]

why are patch notes not exhaustive 😔

[dim kestrel]

I see what you're saying, but I don't know that I actually think mana increases are that much more attractive for Born Gain compared to other gains right now as it is.... yes the scaling with mana cap is really strong with Born Gain, but at some point you just have enough mana that you stop worrying about it, whereas with the gains that require you to do something specific to regain mana (Apollo, Demeter, Aphro, Poseidon, Hephaestus), having a higher base means you have more flexibility as to when you do those things. With Zeus you really want mana increases, because priming boons suck so much if the base is too low. It's really only Hestia that doesn't care that much about your mana cap, I think

[grand glacier]

How do you guys manage the swarm of pinhead with the vow of haunting ? I feel like they respawn way too much when they die, it's unbearable.

[limpid coral]

The little fish that dash at you?

[strange kite]

kill them with aoe and dont worry too much about the remnants until its safe to dash through and pick up

omega cast is pretty good

[limpid coral]

If you ignore the skulls at least the swarms half life is pretty short

[carmine lagoon]

Has anyone gotten hex cost down to zero? With wolf howl now being 40 base it might be possible unless the game makes sure there are less than 8 -5 tiles

[lean atlas]

Is poseidon is the only omega cast boon that repeats with momus?

[quartz plaza]

is there a spreadsheet of boons anywhere?

[analog ether]

I think of all Hecate's attacks during her minion phases, I like her little bullet streams the least.

[inner ivy]

finally cleared 32F surface smh. Much better this run with above average rng

[strange kite]

what weapon did u take?

[inner ivy]

lost 1 dd to eris cause i got shot through piilar for some reason on her dash attack

[analog ether]

32F surface is hell.

[inner ivy]

thanatos cause i'm much more comfortable on axe than flames (did two runs and failed)

[inner ivy]

it's in the victory channel

born gain was my second last boon lmao, last boon was from boss stop

[strange kite]

melee vs poly is suffering

[inner ivy]

so was zero magick run 90% of the run

[inner ivy]

axe has enough range imo

idk why but i've been hit through dash (no attack) three times today

[glossy rivet]

bro how badly did they nerf YES HAHA

[strange kite]

they nerfed legendary boons into oblivion

and they made momus non existent

and they nerfed a ton of builds with 4 god pool

and they nerf pan hammers

[silent crow]

no they made it way cooler and better and not carpal tunner simulator 5000

[strange kite]

by unexisting a whole hammer and nerfing hook

[weak meteor]

Momus is a very good aspect still...

[silent crow]

no way the legendary boons r supposed to be hard tk get????!??!

[glossy rivet]

what are "rare resources" according to double up?

[silent crow]

everything except selene and god boons

[glossy rivet]

please dont tell me i cant dupe poms anymore

[strange kite]

dood if u tell me that legendary boons dont suck now ur coping

[weak meteor]

Double up applies to pretty much everything you pick up.

[silent crow]

theyre rarer oh noo

i cant force 2x omega damage every run 😔 so sad

[strange kite]

if u try to build into a legendary boons ur actually shotting urself in the foot

[silent crow]

yeah bc ur not supposed to do that thats dumb

no build should need a legendary to function

[split igloo]

how exactly did they make it where vow of forsaking no longer helps you get duos/legendaries

[weak meteor]

Other than picking up boons, nearly every reward has the chance to be doubled. Hearts, mana, coins, so on.

[strange kite]

great. why are they in the game?

[weak meteor]

If the pool is empty it gives you gold choices rather than guaranteed legendaries or duos.

[strange kite]

just remove them from the game and literally NOTHING changes in the current state of things

[silent crow]

instead of guaranteeing the duo/legend if you locked out every toher boon it rolls the chance of them actually appearing. if it fails it gives you spare wealth/the other remaining boons

[limpid coral]

see funny yellow perk, dopamine

[weak meteor]

Assuming you've failed the percent chance roll for legendaries or duos.

[strange kite]

they may as well not exists after the patch

[silent crow]

yeah and
rheyre cool when they show up

[weak meteor]

Figuratively, not literally.

[silent crow]

u could remove the legendaries in h1 and not muchw ould change either

most h1 legendaries sucked total ass too lets be honest

[past salmon]

true

[weak meteor]

I don't know if they sucked, but they weren't run winners usually.

[silent crow]

like poseidons literally did NOTHING

[weak meteor]

Which I appreciated! It's good balance.

Posi had two. One did do things. The other made you good at fishing and was a funny meme 🙂

[silent crow]

ACTUALLY NOTHING he had TWO of them and NEITHER OF THEM DID ANYTHING

[weak meteor]

Second Wave was pretty great sometimes!

[spare kite]

Second wave really does nothing lol

Splitting bolt was kinda the only good one (cuz its requisites weren't ass)

[silent crow]

there was fully loaded too which required you take random artemis tier 2's 😼

[weak meteor]

I mean it was good in rooms ;-;

[silent crow]

and bad news which is only good because of a bug and its also one of the rarest boons in the game 😼

[spare kite]

You ain't seeing fully loaded on a cast build

[wild pine]

Try it, maybe like with Born Gan it will let you trigger the serenity refill despite being on empty

[spare kite]

It'll show up on anything but them

[weak meteor]

Athena's Legendary boon was ok, but not amazing.

[silent crow]

1% chance and you need to take a hermes cast boon hell yeah

[spare kite]

Divine protection at least can shine on fresh file runs

[silent crow]

hades 2 legendaries seem a lot better compared to this stuff

[weak meteor]

Unealthy Fixation from Aphrodite was really really funny. It worked on Hades too.

[spare kite]

I think they are about the same