#h2-builds-and-combat

1 messages · Page 98 of 1

trail wharf
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what's pink aura?

plain fossil
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i was at 119/225 life before circe with flood control and 1 centaur heart, and the buff gives 100% stronger animal companion abilities

bleak night
trail wharf
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Ah, apollo/aphro, got it

bleak night
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Pretty much

plain fossil
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man how do u get screenshot privileges i wanna show u guys this

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its just totally wtf

bleak night
plain fossil
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i have a level 16 frinos giving me +160 hp

bleak night
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takes like 5 seconds to make one, so should be no issue

haughty depot
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How do you level frinos past cap

plain fossil
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uh that didnt seem to work

bleak night
bleak night
plain fossil
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circe gives "100% stronger abilities"

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i think it might be doubling his level and putting all the extra levels in hp

haughty depot
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Like an NPC room boon?

plain fossil
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yea in surface a2

haughty depot
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Dang

plain fossil
bleak night
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Does she level you up that much ?

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Can you try it with Toula and see if she gives +3 death defiances or something ?

plain fossil
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idk its doing something wack

bleak night
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might just be bugged for Frinos

haughty depot
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It might be like 80hp death defiance instead of 40 for toula

plain fossil
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yea what its also doing is restoring my hp to full even i have vow of scars 3 on

bleak night
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weird

plain fossil
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i went from 119/225 to this

haughty depot
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Well centaurs ignore vow of scars so that is consistent at least

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In a weird way

plain fossil
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my frinos isnt max leveled either bc i didnt click the gathering stuff

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its possible if i do that then it would be some giant frog hp

haughty depot
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That's nuts

plain fossil
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since what it appears to be doing is doubling the levels and sticking it all in life

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idk if he is ever gonna hop on somebody but maybe he hits for 200 now lmao

haughty depot
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What's the max level again

plain fossil
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baseline its 10 maybe?

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1+3+3+3?

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anyway i did say this was bugged earlier or at the very least extremely unexpected behaviour looks like i got proof now

hollow stag
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How are the Axe Hammers Hell Splitter (300 Attack Chop) with Executioner's Chop (Double Attack for 20 Magick)?

plain fossil
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works fine together theres even a trial based on it

hollow stag
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Are those the best axe hammers or is Psychic Whirlwind better?

wild pine
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  1. In practice I think you will find that you don't need the +duo boon chance in Hades 2, even though it was a very beneficial stat in Hades 1. In Hades 1, you would see 4 gods per run which gave you up to 6 duos and 4 legendaries to collect. Each boon slot rolled first to see if it would be duo/legendary or a normal boon, then selected a random duo or legendary from among those you had access to. So you could routinely be offered 3 or 4 duos without ever actually seeing the one you wanted.

In Hades 2, you only see 3 gods per run, and so there's at most 3 duos and 3 legendaries available under normal circumstances. I'm not sure if legendaries and still grouped with duos these days or not, since they were treated interchangeably in the past, but the arcana card only mentions affecting duo chance.

Not only are there fewer duos available per run now, but each god's duos tend to have more of a mix of requirements. In Hades 1 having a god's attack or special used to unlock pretty mch all their duos except for a handful of cast-modifying boons that required a specific cast instead. In this game many gods have about half their duos keyed to attack/special and half keyed to gain/sprint/cast or to non-core support boons.

In practice this means you usually only really want 1 or maybe 2 duos, and can easily make sure you only qualify for the ones you actually want. That one duo is very likely to show up eventually even on base duo chance, especially if you have any of the re-roll cards going.

  1. If you want the duo chance and it's the 1-costs getting you down, then you could turn off ... any of them, actually. The time-slow on channels is really nice on some builds, but others don't really use omega moves. Chronos is immune, so turning it off for a few runs to learn how to land charged moves on full-speed targets can be worthwhile. And if you want to run with time limit, sometimes the slow-down actually hurts you because you want enemies to spawn or approach faster.
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The health regen is also nice to have but you will find it very possible to live without as you get better. Once of the commonly-used difficulty mods is to reduce healing or prevent it entirely. If you do play with reduced healing, then the value of the regen card is much less so you might as well skip it. If you don't play with reduced healing, then you have full-strength fountains to get by on. Just remind yourself that some people get by without healing at all and you'll soon find that the fountains are enough.

Similarly, if you're not playing with the increased enemy speed, then you can definitely get by without the +dash/sprint speed card. You'll still be much faster relative to the enemies than you would be with that card on but with 40% fater enemies, and that game is still playable. (If you do have enemy speed turned all the way up then you may find going without your own speed bonus really inconvenient depending on weapon and playstyle, but that's a more complex topic)

pulsar canopy
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do you think the magic regen card is mandatory?

haughty depot
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No way

pulsar canopy
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i've tried going without it but if i don't find a good magic recovery boon it gets really rough

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but ive been enjoying the freedom of having enough points for increased epic chanceds

past salmon
civic ocean
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I come back here and theres another essay here I know Orion be talkin

pulsar canopy
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thank

civic ocean
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okay so we went 5 for 10

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@timber pawn I am now sitting at a 5 win streak with Persephone Air Fryer

bleak night
timber pawn
civic ocean
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If I played Momus I feel like this challenge would be extremely free

bleak night
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I like the dedication, at least

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Yeah, probs give Momus a try on it, actually

civic ocean
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Noooo too easy

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Snorlax staff is where its at I just choked Chronos

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3 deaths to chronos 2 deaths in oceanus

past salmon
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is it possible to get a second selene in erebus or just no

civic ocean
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hmm idk if ive seen one

wise nest
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can't you see her in mid/endshop

zenith bolt
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i dont think i see her in midshop unless i havent seen her yet

wise nest
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Selene start (🤢) into charon (I'm sorry for your loss)

agile cliff
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All Testaments + 32 fear runs for skelly done, only runs left for me are chaos trials. Any tips for the Haste or Heartache ones? I can't seem to get enough DPS on Haste when I hit Cerberous, and the lack of Death defiance with how much Eris does is true paaain on Heartache

warped harness
wise nest
zenith bolt
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haste just spam Omega attack and pray to your favorite god
heartache mostly just learn eris

wise nest
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heartache ez if you hug pillar and make sure to not let her snipe it down

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You just cast + spam special ez

zenith bolt
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until other stuff gets upgraded

wise nest
warped harness
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ohh i see

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thats diff from h1 right?

zenith bolt
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it also might be a matter of born gain not actually improving from lvl 3 to lvl 4

wise nest
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yeah

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heroic l2 is already only 2 so I'd imagine you'd need a double/triple pom to get it to 1

zenith bolt
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no, heroic lvl 3 is 1 primed

wise nest
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ah

zenith bolt
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poms always increase by the same amounts regardless of rarity

wise nest
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see I don't pom born gain because I can simply pom other stuff and it usually isn't that bad anyway

zenith bolt
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so like common flutter flourish would be (this is not exact) 100 150 175 etc. but epic would be 200 250 275 etc.

wise nest
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Yeah, it did that in h1 too

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(cries in common Doom)

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funny how some boons really bank on rarity + poms and others are chill with just poms

warped harness
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i wonder why you can't cast during the axe omega charge but you can during the pan omega charge

bleak night
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because you can with Special

warped harness
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attack

bleak night
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Ah, then yeah nope

warped harness
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advancing and psychic both break on than rn right

past salmon
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haha ok the hex only build is so funny actually

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Lunar ray kinda just gets really good
like 15 second cerb fight

bleak night
warped harness
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😔

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i got both in 1 hammer, but the double cleaver is funny

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ok than axe charge special spam might be really funny

calm arch
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why does Eris sometimes not summon enemies?

civic ocean
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too busy fragging out

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She's the only boss atm that isn't guaranteed to summon minions

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She also has 4 phases

past salmon
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@plain fossil majority damage lunar ray go brrrrrrr

civic ocean
past salmon
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it actually could of been way better aswell but im goofy and took heph attack so uhhh

cursive ruin
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Getting lunar ray without the auto fire upgrade is 💀

plain fossil
past salmon
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it was pretty funny

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honestly the damage is very good

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like I didnt even get a good setup for it gains effect of my attack boon but chronos still only took 1 cast per phase

plain fossil
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is it only very good because u dont have shield 2 hp 3 on lul

past salmon
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I dont think shield 2 would matter

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hp 3 might but again my damage was nowhere near optimal
I can do another one ig with hp 3 on

plain fossil
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yes alright on this

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na i just thought it would be funny i dont wanna make u test 500 different things

past salmon
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but yeah I actually do genuinely think ray is slept on tho

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like if ray gets upgrades it will do more damage than anything else in your kit
The problem, like with most hexes
Is that you need to sink too much into it

plain fossil
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its possible ray is ok on zdps builds as like an a2 pickup to upgrade in a3 as ur builds falls off

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like if ur playing some zeus cast build where u have all this early game damage but ur build scales like potato maybe u can pick it up as mobile damage

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i can try that actually im not doing anything atm

past salmon
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probably yeah

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like its really good if you get upgrades in mourning
Like 15 second cerberus is rlly good considering half that time is on phase transition and also was me shooting my special at the wall LMAO

civic ocean
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idk if zeus cast even scales badly anymore man

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I didn't get AQ and I just casted chronos to death lmao

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tbf though I did get the hammer where ur ammo sits there and goes off

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that hammer seems incredible on the skulls

past salmon
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I mean Zeus cast is also just insanely good if you just like
Chuck blitz on something
since it constantly triggers blitz quickly and you can just keep reapplying

civic ocean
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I don't even remember I just know that the Air Fryer is on a 5 run winstreak at 32 and that includes not getting the build off the ground, losing storm ring in fields, selene start, no hammers, getting a random poseidon...

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I think it's just good

past salmon
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I love that scorch still just not enough damage dealt here tho like literally anything else would of just been better 😭

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tbf they didnt have much scorch apply

plain fossil
warped harness
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i just cant really make medea feel right

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maybe its just me not knowing chronos but he has such little down time and it feels awful getting hit by his crescent shaped thing even after he launched it and it just remains

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and he just randomly did the super fast turn on me even though i didn't even phase him, i think because I dd'd?

plain fossil
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ive been trying these zeus cast setups and i dont think theyre that good compared to the zero mana setups

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zero mana too strong early

warped harness
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it just feels awful playing a melee playstyle into chronos

plain fossil
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sry cant help u i struggle with medea as well

warped harness
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it's alright im just letting off steam after that

merry flint
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man skulls are weird

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how exactly do i build them out?

warped harness
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i love the mel skull and i think i can warm up to persephone

merry flint
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i picked Medea and got Aphro special

warped harness
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medea feels wierd bc i like it sometimes and hate it on others

civic ocean
warped harness
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most of the time yeah

civic ocean
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Does the Omega special also burst the bombs?

warped harness
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it feels too slow to reliably pop skulls with omega special unless i have cast time down

civic ocean
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I feel like the being invuln part is pretty important for boss fights

warped harness
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it does yeah, but the skulls will sometimes pop beforehand

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if i load it while moving and then dodge to get into a better position so im not hitstunned out of an attack i can lose 1-2 skulls before i reach

civic ocean
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Yeah idk I haven't labbed it that much

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In my head the omega seems right

warped harness
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its absolutely doable and it's not that medea is bad

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it's the speedrun wep of choice and i know what it can do

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i just can't get it to feel right consistently

past salmon
calm arch
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where can i find the thing that lets you review your runs?

civic ocean
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The bar near the fishing hole

merry flint
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that shade's in the tavern but you need an incantation to summon him

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hmm

analog ether
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What? I didn't have any sort of curse on what I tried to say, why'd I get shushed?

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Anyway, Medea works best with spread array.

past salmon
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ehh
spread array is ok
I wouldnt call it the best personally

analog ether
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It's best with the Medea aspect. Ideally paired with additional shells

merry flint
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i dunno man, this is my 1st ever run with skulls

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not too shabby though

analog ether
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It loads all your shells at once, instead of having to do them individually

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So you actually have more time to charge and line up an omega special

warped harness
zenith bolt
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for 1 nectar i would've just skipped

analog ether
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I'm pretty sure I got my second Chronos win with the medea skull that way. Had Aphro attack, Poseidon Special, I think maybe Aphro cast?

warped harness
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skipped?

zenith bolt
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you can just stand outside the circle and let it go to 0%

warped harness
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????

zenith bolt
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you get no reward, but you can exit faster

warped harness
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man that just sucks

past salmon
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god I hope i beat this 45F run it would be so funny this is so scuffed

upbeat plover
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damn just lost to chronos again. managed to get him to half in phase 2 using moonbeam, but i lost all my death defiance to his instakill moves

rich bolt
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Ya you gotta respect the mechanic and go hide in the one safe spot or iframe dodge it

zenith bolt
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i dont recommend trying to iframe it beyond purely for swag reasons

rich bolt
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Same

proven orbit
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Note to self: never take chopper hammer on 40% speed

past salmon
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this run should never have even made it past erebus lmao

merry flint
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Spiteful Strength when i already packed my core boons...

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Aphro special is already at +230% dangit

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damn, cerb without even exhausting lovers

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...i picked Evil Eye when the last foe was Charybdis, not Chronos

past salmon
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yeah that makes sense
Died to timer Chronos 2nd phase RIP

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that run was so incredibly bad honestly how have I not beaten 45 yet when Im getting to p2 chronos with that

merry flint
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Damn, Medea Skull pretty good

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I guess it just felt weird

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first sub 30 that wasn't me spamming momus

fading grove
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i really like medea yeah

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the hit box on special is kinda funky rn and the load time def feels weird but v fun

past salmon
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wait so what is the quick way to do asphodel

proven orbit
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You activate the circle, then run out and wait for it to hit 0%

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No reward but fast clear

past salmon
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thx

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It would be better if they just like
Paused timer for it or smth I think

sly plaza
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It’s a very weird mini game chamber in general tbh

fading grove
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yeah i find asphodel not stopping timer to be strange

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cause obv the hades' rooms in chamber 1 from the first game did stop timer

sly plaza
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I love the idea of throwback chambers (like I even want an Elysium and Satyr tunnels one) but the timer mechanic isn’t super cool

atomic lodge
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Hello, any advice for a Charon aspect 32 Fear build ?

pastel elm
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most people go for apollo cast and its good. but i just play it like mel axe

atomic lodge
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this is also my go to, but the damage feel very bad

merry flint
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if you get lucky you can do Demeter Attack for Freeze

atomic lodge
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damn, that's exactly what i was doing :x, i guess i'm just very bad with this aspect

sly plaza
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It takes some getting used to. It’s pretty normal as far as adjustment periods go

ornate apex
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Is there any build where you'd want Zeus' Attack boon?

Only aspects I could think of that would prefer it over Zeus Special are Momus and Mel Ygnium, but even there idk if you'd actually want it.

upbeat plover
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the charge dash thing is straight up broken with aphrodite

bleak night
urban pendant
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Oh no, if Ecstatic Obsession grabs a rattomancer, the rats he summons are still hostile to the playershadedisgruntled

split igloo
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Is there a reason why axe specials don't slow down even if sorceress is on

desert mist
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moros torches go kinda hard

desert mist
split igloo
desert mist
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yeah and it would be much worse if you had to time it with the slowdown lol

proven orbit
desert mist
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for the torches i imagine it's because holding down the button lets you spam Omega attacks after a point, and you can also dodge while holding and youll still be shooting out the Omega ghosts

zenith bolt
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the specific case for those two is "attacks that require holding the button to continuously use"

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since there's two functions for holding the button then (doing the attack and channeling the omega), sorceress doesn't work

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at least, that's how i assume they designed it

tired fulcrum
ionic lily
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I assumed the logic was something like:
IF
'something happens when holding down button'
THEN
'no slowdown'

zenith bolt
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yeah

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both cases would be awkward to have slowdown on anyway

ornate apex
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The only (very far-fetched) explanation I can think of is that since daze activates Origination, the +50% dmg I deal with it gets added to the source of daze. Though that would be confusing too since that dmg should already be added to my attacks

past salmon
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nevermind I threw 💀

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get hit 10 times any% speedrun ong

plain fossil
acoustic remnant
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if ur using posideon dash that would be funny

round shell
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😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

atomic lodge
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Finally done with Charon 32 run, the power come very very late on this aspect

young minnow
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Charon axe is awesome. Killed Kronos so easily with it.

past salmon
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LETS GO

slate pecan
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not even close

past salmon
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not at all

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literally everytime I got hit by chronos it was because of the tempus god I hate them so much

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oh and I facetanked like 3 instakills for damage cuz coarse grit go brrr

zenith bolt
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triple earth ftw

past salmon
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yeah its just too good

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I honestly made way more mistakes in that run than I did in like 2 other runs that made it to chronos they just didnt have like
Grit

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I kinda wish I won the exceedingly scuffed run where I basically didnt have functioning boons or hammers until mourning fields lol

round shell
past salmon
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breaker sprint is like
Good I think
I dont like it though so I never take it

round shell
slate pecan
past salmon
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I mean
Everything that uses magick is better with born gain liek 💀

round shell
slate pecan
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yea so you can keep using magick without a break if you run out

round shell
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ive used it but in that run i was not very lucky

slate pecan
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whatever works, i guess, high mana pool compensated for lack of born

round shell
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but yeaaa its like core boon for the build if youre not going for poseidon's

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personally the spirit bubbles are S+ tier

plain fossil
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generally ppl play either aph for full pepega dps or demeter for control, i did try hera a bit i dont think its as good as aph

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its very good at clearing waves quickly but so is aph and u get all the dumb heartthrob synergies

split igloo
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How do you fight polyphemus with the damn torches (aspect of moros) at max speed

slate pecan
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Hera's nice, her dmg % boost is also decent and she gives born gain, so you can use the other gods' slots for whatever you want, but i still prefer Aphrodite on mel torches

forest mortar
bleak night
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speaking of Polyphemus, how do I fight him with Medea with Fury2

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do I just accept that I'll lose a dd lol

past salmon
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uhhh

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so like
yeah ima be so fr goodluck lmao

plain fossil
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U cant avoid the jumps

bleak night
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I figured, yeah

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I did a 45 on Than for surface and Poly was my only issue that run, Eris was a nonfactor

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I'm dreading doing Medea on 40 on surface because of that anti-melee boss so badly

plain fossil
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I dont have much firsthand experience because i dont like playing medea but he's pretty unfriendly to special torches as well

past salmon
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yeah I mean Eris is like
not hard
I mean
actually wait
eris final phase is like hard for medea
Because you are sort of just hoping she drops next to you

lament aurora
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Hi guys.. Im new to Hades 2 after I took a long break after playing hours of hours of Hades 1 and beating the game on alot of heat levels (dont remember the actual number lol).. Im maybe 10-20 runs in and have already reached chronos a couple times already.. But he is so tanky that by the time Im getting him down to 20% he hits me with his annoying scythe and his fast patterns.. Now my question is.. Is there any recommendations for best weapon/aspect and best boons to take for the first clear? I tried the Momos/Poseidon/Special build the last couple runs but Im getting really bad luck on hammers.. I usually dont struggle to get to chronos except for cerberus and couple chambers in tartaros sometimes.. So what would you recommend on weapons/aspects/gods/boons to focus for my first clear?

plain fossil
past salmon
plain fossil
bleak night
# lament aurora Hi guys.. Im new to Hades 2 after I took a long break after playing hours of hou...

A good amount of Chronos fights atm are just getting his patterns down, the aspect you play shouldn't matter all too much as long as your playstyle fits and you can comfortably be evasive. That being said, the general consensus is that Chronos is really weak when you're behind him. He has to turn around to hit you with most things, giving you the option to just dash through him again. Do you consistently get him to Phase 2 ?

past salmon
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😭
But in general eris is like fine yeah

plain fossil
bleak night
lament aurora
plain fossil
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Green sheep is like -50 hp

bleak night
past salmon
#

this is so true

plain fossil
past salmon
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but also you should stray away from what you like to use and become a Zeus believer 🙏

lament aurora
plain fossil
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It gets much better with nightmare which u dont have

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Its pretty zdps without nightmare

bleak night
lament aurora
lament aurora
bleak night
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Charon without levels shouldn't be too bad to use for a first clear

past salmon
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Actually I was going to ask Mynt
What is fun on Charon other than just slapping on Apollo and calling it a day

lament aurora
bleak night
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it plays rather safely compared to other Axes, meanwhile Than is kinda trash without levels

bleak night
lament aurora
bleak night
# lament aurora Yes I do

you can forego Zeus and just run Hera for both your Special and your Mana regen. Zeus can be something you get later on down the line for Lightning Lance (Turns your Cast ranged)

plain fossil
bleak night
#

You want Apollo on your cast, it's very beginner friendly as well. Make sure to test out how Charon plays in the training ground first. It's very different compared to the other two

past salmon
plain fossil
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Ive been trying that out its heaps of fun

bleak night
past salmon
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Im kind of disappointed that Charon doesnt just flat boost cast damage tbh

bleak night
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Apollo is great and all, but I've come to enjoy the lack of downtime on my Casts when I've detonated already

merry flint
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hey quick question

bleak night
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hence my running Dem since it also has freeze+cyclone

past salmon
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Is poseidon cast like
Ever good?

plain fossil
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U can play POSEIDON CAST CHARON

merry flint
#

does Medea have fluctuating Omega Special costs?

glacial pike
#

does the huntress arcana work with primed magick?

plain fossil
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(Dont play poseidon cast charon its ass)

merry flint
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Because sometimes im getting half the mana usage that it normally does

bleak night
past salmon
plain fossil
bleak night
#

Still, you could be running something else that isn't so reliant on a hammer

merry flint
slate pecan
past salmon
bleak night
midnight bay
#

How does persephone aspect work?

merry flint
#

5000 damage to fully charge Glory

past salmon
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its kinda poo

merry flint
past salmon
#

or well
I just dont like it
So its poo

lament aurora
plain fossil
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Yea i never have the spare boons to put anything other than zeus on special

bleak night
plain fossil
#

Charon needs like 57 different pieces to not suck

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Its fun when u assemble voltron tho

past salmon
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I find Charon more fun than melee axe idk why

plain fossil
#

So do i

bleak night
merry flint
#

I did my first clear with Mel axe apollo omega special so im a big fan of the special

plain fossil
#

Probably because melee axe is like I CLICKED 3 TIMES IM DEAD

slate pecan
bleak night
#

I still hard prefer melee Axe to Charon

merry flint
#

rods from gods

plain fossil
merry flint
#

dammit xbox game bar

plain fossil
#

Although im not sure whats even good at 0 fear

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I did my first chronos on mel omega staff lul

past salmon
merry flint
#

anyways the bug is that i'm simultaneously chargeing both omega attacks for some reason

plain fossil
#

With omega attack

merry flint
#

but the game only displays omega attack if this is happenign

proven orbit
#

Everything is good at 0 fear if you have enough hp to facetank chronos

merry flint
#

i'd still say range>melee if you're starting otu

past salmon
#

Everything is good at 0 fear if you have enough hp to facetank chronos

plain fossil
#

Mel omega staff is pretty fun tbh it hits pretty hard it just has the problem of not being momus so ppl dont click it

lament aurora
past salmon
proven orbit
past salmon
#

its still playable at 0 fear

plain fossil
#

I mean its not like 0 fear disables hammers

merry flint
#

okay got the clip

plain fossil
#

U click hook knives and stand on the boss and it still hits for 500 base lmao

past salmon
#

also you are like almost guaranteed to get atleast a somewhat helpful hammer on blades

bleak night
bleak night
plain fossil
#

I dont mind playing melee axe i just dont like the reward u get for playing melee axe

proven orbit
#

The argument is about everything, not "something sensible" 🤓

plain fossil
#

Which is melee axe dps and mobility lul

bleak night
plain fossil
#

I prefer playing mel axe to than ngl im not a spin enjoyer

proven orbit
plain fossil
#

Final chop exists to punish ppl that dont cancel with special

proven orbit
#

I somehow manage to weave special in and it still snaps back to chop

plain fossil
#

It has no other purpose except to kill solo minibosses that u alrdy knocked off the armour

bleak night
#

I played Arthur on H1 recently and the fact that the swings on it are faster, and yet it does more damage, is kinda discouraging for Big Chop

plain fossil
#

Also arthur has athena attack lul

past salmon
#

Yeah I definitely think Axe just doesnt do enough damage lol

bleak night
#

I just think melee weapons should be able to delete projectiles like everything did in H1

plain fossil
#

Well it does enough damage if ur willing to take 30 per big chop

past salmon
#

like I know momus is broken and all but like
the tiny little special with giga distance does the same damage as the first axe swing like tf 😭

bleak night
#

Yeah, it's definitely weak

plain fossil
#

I mean thats a momus issue lulw

merry flint
#

that's momus bro

plain fossil
#

But yea sure i get u

past salmon
merry flint
#

+300% special damage what were they thinking

bleak night
#

even without comparing it to Momus, the basic swing being only 40 is def weak

past salmon
plain fossil
#

I was messing about with hera momus with shimmering moonshot this morning it evaporates rooms

merry flint
plain fossil
#

U can do just about anything on momus and it will be the best at something lul

past salmon
bleak night
#

Might do a meme run, idk what to play

merry flint
#

it sounds so stupid

proven orbit
merry flint
#

'yeah this thing has like 4x times the base damage for some reason'

past salmon
#

My first chronos win was Smithy Sprint doing 70% of my damage lmao

bleak night
#

is it normal for the Skull's killcount to be 3x higher than any of the other weapon's ? I have like 3x more Axe runs than Skull

past salmon
bleak night
#

that's really weird

plain fossil
bleak night
#

did I just keep finding entire herds of the birds from Oceanus in each run

past salmon
#

probably

plain fossil
past salmon
#

Im sad I wasnt recording earlier today actually
I was on a 45 run and said "Damn this run is going well"
And then immediately entered the big ass oceanus room with literally 50-60 sea serpents at every corner

bleak night
plain fossil
#

Oh ok i got nothing then

bleak night
#

I did most of my practice runs on one of the ones from the speedrunner resources

plain fossil
#

I tried some more zero mana mel skulls its kinda zdps unless u play like a lunatic

proven orbit
#

Would be kinda funny if skull reaching the target and dissipating counts as a kill

past salmon
#

I need to get the no centaur save actually

bleak night
past salmon
#

nah I know where to get it im good

bleak night
#

Alright, I still have it open in a tab

plain fossil
#

Zero mana torches seems to be much better dps than skulls

proven orbit
plain fossil
#

Also mynt i got the surface technology for when u do ur medea run

bleak night
#

Oh ?

proven orbit
#

And you can't even go full salvo :(

plain fossil
#

Idk if u saw earlier

bleak night
#

What's the tech ?

plain fossil
#

Oh yea u did see u were there

past salmon
plain fossil
#

U click frinos and click circe animal familiar buff and it gives u +120 hp and heals u to full

bleak night
#

Oh, right, yeah.

slim marsh
#

Does anyone have any suggestions for twin blades for a first clear? They're the weapon I've enjoyed the most so far; I can consistently get to ||Chronos|| but am either too squishy or have too low damage to beat him. (doesn't help I also ||can't see his after image explosion/implosion effect||)

I don't know if I just need to grind more progress, or if I'm just not knowing what to prioritize in a run.

bleak night
#

That's probs a bug, no ?

plain fossil
#

Its certainly weird yeah

past salmon
#

yeah most certainly a bug

bleak night
plain fossil
#

I should probably f10 it

past salmon
#

probably

bleak night
#

From there you can build around it, for the most part. Are you using the base Blades or do you have an aspect atm ?

past salmon
#

or
hear me out
we delete all our messages and pretend it doesnt exist and then abuse it forever!

bleak night
slim marsh
plain fossil
past salmon
#

Also I played my 2nd ever Momus run today and I can confirm this aspect is absolutely feral
Why does it do everything for nothing

proven orbit
plain fossil
#

How to get skulls back on cerb without mana if u dont want to take 40 damage

bleak night
# slim marsh I haven't unlocked any aspects yet, no

Ah, then it should be fine all the same. Teleport behind your target and unleash a fully charged special and it should do a lot of damage. Try Aphro on Attack, Poseidon on your Specials. It's a bit of a bread-and-butter hybrid build, but you'll learn to use it separately down the line when you unlock aspects.

merry flint
past salmon
slim marsh
merry flint
#

what windows, im spamming omega special 100% of the time

proven orbit
#

You guys don't stick to cerberus by dashing through every second?

past salmon
#

actually cerb is one of the easier bosses to play on top of at 40 speed imo

merry flint
#

born gain ftw

plain fossil
#

Yea i get that but then is he supposed to take all day or am i missing something

past salmon
#

Maybe your build wasnt fantastic?
in my experience mel skulls kind of require good hammers

plain fossil
#

Like do i stay behind him all day and watch only for the double stomp that hits behind him

bleak night
proven orbit
#

40 speed cerb lowkey easier because iframes last long enough for shockwaves on reaction

plain fossil
proven orbit
#

Until he does one of three moves that are much worse, ofc

plain fossil
#

Colossus does not much on this setup i think

past salmon
plain fossil
past salmon
proven orbit
#

Mel skull to me seems like medea except you dash instead of special

plain fossil
#

I failed some 32s i will step back to 28 and learn

proven orbit
#

And you can shoot mobs at range sometimes ig

past salmon
#

Mel is safer than medea because you can play at range
the only thing mel suffers at is running barrier fear

#

like you can just play range in regular rooms

merry flint
#

best medea hammers?

past salmon
#

collosus

merry flint
#

i'm picking prophecy targets for now so idk what im actually doing

#

Collosus+Sudden then??

past salmon
#

which one is sudden again

merry flint
#

specials boost

karmic gust
#

+35% dash speed

past salmon
#

oh
Yeah sudden is good
I dont actually take it that often tbh

#

I will usually take extra skulls if its available tbh

plain fossil
#

Extra skulls doesnt exist its fake news

past salmon
#

so true

#

I also think
If you already have extra skulls
The one that fires off ur omega attack on pickup
is probably really good on mel skulls

#

its just like a lot of burst damage

plain fossil
#

I tried that it ruins ur sustained dps a bit

#

Because the skulls fly like 10 metres in the air before coming down

past salmon
#

I think its probably more of a high fear safety ish thing
Since you can just play range and then dash in and everything dies so ur not in danger to collect skulls
Auto retrieval maybe better?

plain fossil
#

Theres probably a use case but idk im still learning

proven orbit
past salmon
#

skull hammers are honestly all pretty ok

past salmon
plain fossil
past salmon
#

Daggers probably close no?

proven orbit
#

Dagger special hammers is superior imo

#

Hook knives and spiral knives just reek of value

past salmon
#

also boundless

plain fossil
#

Dagger has some potato hammers

proven orbit
#

Skull is more balanced but doesn't have powerspikes like that

plain fossil
#

Marauder slice is probably the most pointless hammer in the game

past salmon
#

Marauder slice is like its only actually poop hammer tho
unless im forgetting something

plain fossil
#

+2 skulls on mel is more than double damage its same tier as hook knives etc

proven orbit
#

Hook knives also lets them pierce which is asinine CC buff

urban pendant
#

I dunno the Explosive Ambush and Final Slice hammers are pretty goated

#

And Skulking Slice is never bad

obtuse beacon
#

Who gives the "G" gift?

urban pendant
#

Best girl does

proven orbit
#

there are at least 3 best girls smh

oak zephyr
#

I recognise this is a super broad question but, how do I know what boons to pick for a build?

#

Im noticing that sometimes I end up with a build that melts through chronos and that is really cool but its kinda luck of the draw right now... How do I do that deliberately?

past salmon
#

experience I guess

silent crow
past salmon
#

You just learn what works idk

oak zephyr
#

Honestly right now I just pick whatever weapon gets me more bones and kinda go for it?

silent crow
#

idk just play more then you'll understand eventually 🫡

past salmon
#

I mean yeah you sort of just pick certain stuff up

#

like how poseidon is way too cracked on specific things

proven orbit
#

You could try adaptive play at first; pick up any boons and weigh which of 3 options helps you most right now

oak zephyr
#

I can try that thanks!

proven orbit
#

Once you experience enough regular boons, you could try and route for synergies

spare kite
#

The basic of it is
Fast/weak hit do stuff like poseidon boons that add a flat dmg to your attack instead of % (most common one is like staff special + pos special)
High dmg/slower do aphro (high dmg) or smth like apollo for lower dmg but better AoE

oak zephyr
#

Uhu

#

It does kinda feel like my builds are just random bits of stuff and it doesnt come together and Im not sure how to like learn what does go together

#

Hence the question

slate pecan
#

you don't always have to necessarily make a build that synergises with itself. sometimes you pick a boon to cover a weak point or a fear punishment

#

sometimes poseidon on his own is enough to carry you through the run, then you pick whatever you feel like and it works. if you still want to build synergies, then i suggest you think about what you want to achieve later on and aim for boons that contribute to that

spare kite
merry flint
#

I mean you look at the weapon and see what its attacks do then see what boons fit it

spare kite
#

And later on post first win you get access to forsaking which is just a positive atm

merry flint
#

i gotta start that pencil meta ngl

silent crow
slate pecan
#

writing down what you pick/cross out

spare kite
#

Typing down the boons that got forsaken'd

silent crow
#

😭

merry flint
#

there's an online thing for it

silent crow
#

just memory harder tbh

spare kite
merry flint
#

hey its easy with poseidon because poseidon is super direct and carries you

oak zephyr
#

Then why have I lost two deathdefiances already? /j

merry flint
#

just remember the legendary prereqs

oak zephyr
#

Thanks for the link

fringe lichen
#

is spiral knives for pan poseidon THE best hammer?

spare kite
#

More like hook knives/boundless flurry

bleak night
ionic lily
slate pecan
ionic moon
#

just note that it doesn't account for requirements, so you might end up with some boons left on the tracker that you aren't actually eligible for

slate pecan
#

hook knives don't proc waves on return so it's not actually a 200% increase, while spiral make it more difficult to hit multiple targets from afar therefore clear fast and safely

bleak night
#

I might need to play more Blades since I've no clue what I'm reading lol

slate pecan
#

all in all i started loving spiral for the crazy damage boost they provide

urban pendant
#

Got Full Moonglow Moon Water, 2 major Path of Stars, used her 2-star Keepsake, and found 2 small Path pickups in the Fields, ended up with 14 points in the Hex, 3-second damage reversal, 2-second impervious, Serenity, and 12 charges when I got to Chronos bouldy
It's not the best Hex if you manage to avoid damage to begin with but this was big funny

spare kite
#

I like hook just for the pierce on pos ngl

slate pecan
#

yeah hook knives are much better for clearing but spiral give so much dps... i think when i encounter these 2 options as 1st hammer i'll pick hook but as 2nd probably spiral

urban pendant
#

On Pan my favourite hammer is actually Boundless Flurry because it nearly removes the charge time from your omega special

spare kite
#

Yeah boundless is goated lmao

slate pecan
#

yes Boundless is number 1 easily. the lower mana cost also helps a lot

#

at least early on when no born gain (or low mana pool). which is majority of the time for me as i die in Erebus 99% of attempts lol

spare kite
#

And is just nice to not having to cast that often cuz you actually fit more than one volley per cast

urban pendant
#

Yeah you can get 3-4 volleys in per cast

slate pecan
#

Pink Aura build

merry flint
#

Eos attack

slate pecan
#

Mel torches + aphro specials + born gain

merry flint
#

Demeter/Hera gambling on triple earth

spare kite
#

Eos enjoyer too

merry flint
#

i like how you can confirm kills with a dash

#

but uh torches base set needs good buffs

spare kite
#

I do aphro dash start but if you wanna avoid dmg just do triple earth lol

steel sequoia
slate pecan
#

Yeah don't forget heartthrobs

merry flint
#

isn't it uh Aphro Special, Apollo Attack, Triple Helix, Hearthrobs and Aphro-Apollo duo

#

and Born Gain for mana obv

slate pecan
#

Yeah that sounds complete

tidal falcon
frail topaz
#

I do Apollo with solar Cast and the firegod with the coal thing there makes u throw your cast at foes and lucid gain

frosty sparrow
#

Is poseidon and Momus the best combo? I tired blitz and Momus but poseidon seems superior. Cant think of anything else that would suit

brazen sage
#

I casually took the axe out for a run then got the "hell splitter" upgrade. The rest was history; with the help of a few boons (mainly Aphrodite and Demeter), it took me literally 10-15 hits to defeat the final boss (Don't get you're hopes up, the FB ain't that easy).

proven orbit
proven orbit
#

meanwhile on 40% speed you can only kill shield satyr by dashstrikes because it will always block chop in time

karmic gust
#

is there a video of how air quality scorch works? i mean it sounds good but i havent actually done a run with it so i have no idea how much dmg it actually does

merry wolf
#

Hell splitter my beloved

frosty sparrow
#

What are considered the cheapest for the cost Fears? I like vow of panic (some build dont use mana or you can get boons and arcana cards to practically negate it), I also like the first damage of an encounter is doubled. Revenant also doesnt seem as bad as I thought it would be

merry wolf
#

Wandering and reverent are easy, play with 40% speed even though it’s hard because you need that 6, hp up isn’t an issue most of the time, depending on the weapon use the blue health, do not under any circumstances use a Abandon, forsaking is not that bad, onion is not that bad.

frosty sparrow
#

Eris and 40% speed seems concerning. havent tried that one

merry wolf
#

Commotion is hard, damage up and first encounter damage up can get bad because if you have that +400% then you are in one shot territory during early game. Timer tick one and kind of tick two are free but the third tick turns the run into rng check hell

robust prism
#

wandering and forsaking are probably the easiest, arrogance is fine too, rebuke and panic strongly depend on the build but can be very easy

merry wolf
proven orbit
#

Also, while not easiest, I definitely recommend getting used to 40% speed

merry wolf
#

I’ve had a different experience with arrogance and find it very hard, but I play with excellence and divinity so it’s probably due to that.

frosty sparrow
proven orbit
#

Yeah, you definitely do want to drop at least excellence if you go for arrogance. Generally rarity of boons isn't worth that much to brick your build over

robust prism
merry wolf
#

Ik, and it’s why I don’t play with arrogance usally

robust prism
#

having both of them at once is a bit much in general I feel

proven orbit
#

That said, I'm pretty sure no matter how you play you can afford at least 1 tier of arrogance

merry wolf
#

I run about 30-35 fear when just doing runs for fun

spare kite
#

Most boona don't even care about rarity that much

merry wolf
robust prism
#

I don't know if it's intended or not but note that pomming a non-common boon while arrogance is on will remove the primed magick from it

merry wolf
#

It’s probably not because it’s dumb

frosty sparrow
#

has anyone maxed the fear? Max heat in Hades 1 was impossible. Wander if they are still aiming for that kind of choice and impossibility with all of them or if they are aiming to make it more doable this time

proven orbit
robust prism
#

most likely

merry flint
#

too bad you can't pom duos that would help a lot

robust prism
#

removing some of the primed magic per level up might be a nice mechanic but all of it at once is a bit weird

merry wolf
#

Max fear is more impossible-er I think because chronos and cerb and Hecate to an extent will stall your ass out.

robust prism
merry flint
#

max fear means no arcana nobody wants to do that

robust prism
#

max fear might be even worse though

merry wolf
#

Max heat meant no mirror….

dreamy rivet
#

poseidon special with the staff is so absurd

proven orbit
merry flint
merry wolf
#

Momus sure is momus

dreamy rivet
#

Like momus heal is irrelevant its just the special damage increase, and poseidon boons adding flat damage just breaks it

proven orbit
#

I suspect max fear is still possible seeded but it's gonna need a lot of stuff going right

merry wolf
#

The run defiantly just has to be played completely nohit because +400% on first hit.

merry wolf
clever drum
#

trusty shield (I belive that's the heph armor every room boon?) seems key

proven orbit
#

Well, seeded is for loot and locations. Combat was and is random

robust prism
#

speaking of vow of abandon, I feel like it should just reduce your max grasp by like 5 per level or something, turning all arcanas off at once for just 5 fear is kinda weird and literally never worth it

merry wolf
#

You don’t have room for boons that don’t deal damage on max heat

merry wolf
proven orbit
#

You do also have more tools to deal with that

merry wolf
#

Chronos’s bubble spam thing where he covers the arena and hecates everything come to mine

frosty sparrow
# robust prism max heat has been done

It took years, the RNG of the Olympian gods and the new and is viable with only weapon. It normally requires seeded runs. It did happen but its realistically impossible even for the top 1% of the player base

robust prism
#

I'm aware

merry wolf
lament aurora
#

@bleak night
which keep should I take with the build strat you recommended me?

merry wolf
#

Idk if extreme measures is planned but u don’t even want to think about chronos phase 3 for high/max heat.

bleak night
#

Hera or Zeus are preferable on the Special, though

merry wolf
#

I have no clue how max heat makes it out of ephyra at all ever. I assume Heracles keepsake is needed to even get close.

lament aurora
bleak night
merry wolf
timber pawn
merry wolf
#

Also does anyone know if vow of wandering is tied to the seed?

merry wolf
timber pawn
#

Miniboss generally consistently faster than a full 3 reward room

merry wolf
#

Also I don’t know if you have room for a melt hammer, you need double moonshoot and that one hammer that gives special more power on momus, that’s so the only way it’s possible rn.

#

When momus gets it’s inevitable nerf then taking armor melting may be more viable

proven orbit
#

erebus is SO slow

merry wolf
#

I don’t think it’s that big of a factor though

proven orbit
#

If you translate fields' big encounter into a few smaller ones, I'm pretty sure the walk times are barely above average

#

if at all

#

And that's assuming you actually have to explore the route instead of having a vague idea of where each interaction is

merry wolf
#

Erebus and Hecates Special Tricks in particular are the choke points.

proven orbit
#

100%

merry wolf
#

Chronos is defiantly spooky however, Second phase slow and throw bubbles all around the arena moves come to mind

proven orbit
#

Almost nothing to start with because of onion and minor reward rooms, too many encounters to skip the majority with non-fight ones, and then hecate having guaranteed ~30 seconds sink

merry wolf
#

It’s gonna be way more than 30. The add phases are so slow and you have to dodge the hex and the clones by her more time because you have to check them all

#

I don’t know if which super (lunar ray/eclipse/ ring) is seed tied, if not that’s a problem

proven orbit
#

The realistic time is even more, yeah. I'm saying what feels like an absolute guarantee even if you oneshotted adds with the zeus boon or smth

#

(which obviously won't happen because of 2 barriers and increased hp)

merry wolf
#

I may time it out with god mode at some point just to see what the theoretic minimum on her is, but I feel like it might be higher than 30.

frosty sparrow
#

I feel like once unlocked the golden bow upgrade should be automatic. Or at least with the timer on. Or the route to the tree should be more obvious. Sometimes the gold leaf paths are not cleary leading to the tree

merry wolf
#

My trick is you can follow the path a bit then try and listen out for the blobs that almost always spawn on the tree

frosty sparrow
#

Having a run end on high fear because you wasted even ten seconds looking for the fight would be devestating and feel cheap rather than deserved I think.

#

I really like how Ephyra works, I would love Olympus to be more like that than the Fields

desert mist
#

does air quality work with scorch effects?

spare kite
#

Yeah

merry flint
#

air fryer

desert mist
lament aurora
#

@bleak night
I have another question .. which arcana cards would you recommend to take with that charon axe strat? I have 22 Grasp atm and Im missing the last 3 cards of the bottom row

spare kite
desert mist
#

wow okay

crystal ore
#

is exceptional talent bugged with the omega special on the skull weapon? Seems to trigger twice only like 20-30% of the time

tall notch
#

Someone did the matg

#

Math

brave owl
#

hello, frens

merry flint
tall notch
#

O wait yeah

#

I was trying to say it's not as insane as it sounds at first

#

Still good if you can assemble it though

#

I'm a bit tipsy rn, please forgive me 🥺

merry flint
#

honestly air fryer damage distribution is better than base

#

40 dps at 6 tics what are they cooking here

#

40/6??? wat

steel sequoia
#

man is hard to make pink aura with high fear, ive never found hearttrob

sly plaza
#

Heartthrob always shows up when I don’t need it tbh

#

Like when I meme and go for a no magick build

steel sequoia
#

i usually get it, but than i dont find apollo bouldy

#

ive made a run without born gain so that hurt a bti

frosty sparrow
#

What is the opinion on Daze? It seems iffy to me. Compared to Athenas deflect which was guarenteed safety he gives a low percentage for enemies to miss but its much easier to apply and counts as a curse. Still you have to play as every attack is still a threat. So its like an extra ten percent dodge stance, probably slightly less since its not up all the time. Am I sleeping on this or is it mid-tier?

steel sequoia
#

athena was totally busted imo

#

apollo is good becuase of the extra movespeed + curse

wild pine
#

Daze is great, because it's a long-lasting and easily-applied Origination enabler. It also happens to provide a minor defensive benefit which isn't amazing but is about as good as Weaken and nicer to have than irrelevant offensive bennies like a splash of low-dose scorch in an unrelated build.

frosty sparrow
#

I feel Apollo is 50/50. I love Solar ring, tend to skip situational buffs like extra damage untill you take damage. His mana gain boon is not one of the better ones. His attack boons seems to be among the weaker ones. I do take his dash but fing the harp string sound when daze triggers annoying. Dont know why but nearly everytime I think what is that until I remeber.

civic ocean
#

Daze is cool, probably one of the better statuses in the game

We need to get out of the mindset of comparing things in this game to Hades 1

steel sequoia
#

as a charon player i like apollo MelGrin bffs

#

miss uncle dyonisus tho

frosty sparrow
#

I love weak. Enemeies take more damage, deal less damage and in boss fights its a curse that is always up. Of course all that is extra boons building it up

wild pine
frosty sparrow
#

I just fee like daze is missing something, a much higher miss chance but it deactivates once an enemy misses perhaps. or it also lowers attack speed.

silent crow
#

its like 20% miss and you already have 10% dodge chance builtin if you dont use that stupid duo boon card

wild pine
#

Weak and daze both reduce the damage you expect to take by 10%, right? Weak is more consistent, which is usually better than random. But when Daze prevents a hit entirely it may also block you from getting stunned or debuffed or losing juice from no-hit boons or Echo dodge.

silent crow
#

the followup boons for it kind of suck

silent crow
steel sequoia
#

daze is totally fine, people need to get over athena

#

i mean if you dont want to die you can play dem+heph

silent crow
#

i wish the backstab boon had a unique hit sound

royal flame
#

does the zeus apollo duo boon work with the aspect of charon axe?

knotty fulcrum
royal flame
#

ty

frosty sparrow
#

Thats one way to get that Duo Boon. Casting the 45 mana takes forever even with the slow down arcana card. I was sadly underwhelmed by it. Repeatedly applying Blitz to an enemy inside the cast must melt them though

civic ocean
#

Charon gives you the 45 mana version without the cast time

cursive oyster
steel sequoia
#

i play without the slowdown (helps a lot to train for chronos situations), you can get chaos boons to help the cast being faster and use less mana so the charge goes faster.

#

also hermes has a boon that make the casts use less mana

cursive oyster
#

one of my favorite builds ever was using the zeus/apollo duo with the demeter apollo duo on charon axe and just ramping up at crazy speeds

steel sequoia
#

but looks so juicy

cursive oyster
#

vow of forsaking helps and just not being afraid to burn rerolls on erebus miniboss doors

#

still took a few tries

knotty fulcrum
#

does channel speed make torches fire omega attacks faster?

wild pine
#

I'd also like to know, plus I'm curious about attack speed

#

Pre-registering a guess that attack speed works and channel speed doesn't

steel sequoia
#

i know the attack speed overall helps, i believe the omega speed doenst make it faster just more spammable as you can reuse it faster

cursive oyster
wild pine
#

What effects do channel speed and special speed have on the various phases of axe special and omega

steel sequoia
#

which axe aspect?

knotty fulcrum
#

I think (not 100% sure tho) that special speed also acts as channel speed

wild pine
wild pine
steel sequoia
#

the main aspect is faster by itself aint it?

knotty fulcrum
civic ocean
#

Special speed makes the drill faster and the dunk faster, channel speed makes you charge faster and block less

fair veldt
#

Does anyone know exactly how Life Tax works? Is it just 100 healing and done?

civic ocean
#

Yes, you heal to 100 and then you stop

wild pine
wild pine
midnight bay
#

Why dont i have the boon repertory? is it an unlock?

civic ocean
#

yarp

#

gift each god once and then one twice

midnight bay
#

Ty

hollow stag
#

What are good supporting god/boons for Medea Zeus special?

civic ocean
#

anything that deals a lot of damage

#

and then stops you from dying too

wild pine
#

Question: Do global damage modifiers alter the amount of scorch Mel applies on-hit with scorch boons, the amount of tick damage enemies take, or both? What about Fire Extinguisher? If I have 75% scorch-to-damage conversion from epic Fire Extinguisher, but I also have Furies and Origination going, will the target take 180% of that 75% of 300?

civic ocean
#

it doesn't change the scorch number, it applies the multipliers to the tick damage, and it applies the modifiers to the fire extinguisher damage iirc

wild pine
#

Interesting. So if you combine a high-rarity FE with some good damage mods, you could actually make it increase your scorch damage instead of merely accelerating it

civic ocean
#

Sure, it works like pretty much anything else with global damage %, you're just increasing the damage ticks or fire extinguisher damage

tall notch
steel sequoia
#

steam is good enough

tall notch
#

Air fryer builds have the fact that it ticks while you're not blasting going for them. FE wants constant uptime anyway, so why not play a god that does better flat dmg without setup

civic ocean
#

Air Fryer builds also have Storm Ring beating the first half of the game for them

wild pine
civic ocean
#

It would, sure, but it would deal less damage per investment than pretty much any other combination of offense boons in the game iirc

steel sequoia
#

u can win with any combinations, some are faster and easier to make than others

civic ocean
#

yeah people really panicked week 1-2 about how much harder this game was but fr it's actually not that different, you can win with basically anything even on 32 if it breaks right

timber pawn
tired fulcrum
#

H1 32 still has a lot more free heat

steel sequoia
#

i mean the worst duo imo is Sun Worshiper (hera + apo) but its a strong combination overall anyways

tired fulcrum
#

Nah hestia aphro duo worse bouldy

steel sequoia
#

both are bad lmao

tired fulcrum
#

Also true

steel sequoia
#

hestia aphro is eh combination too. anyways i believe you can win with it anyways if you have a solid build

sour cape
#

Hestia + Apollos pretty bad

#

Sun Worshippers the revive right?

#

Its pretty good 🤔

wild pine
#

Sun Worshipper can be really helpful, except when I perma-freeze my own pet, or kill him, or spend all day dodging his projectiles

civic ocean
#

It's not like we were out here talking about how amazing Cold Embrace, Sweet Nectar, Exclusive Access, Freezing Vortex, etc were

proven orbit
civic ocean
#

I think it is bold of us to assume that EM3 will be "free fear" after the dev team listened to players call it free in Hades 1 for like 3 years

proven orbit
#

though at least it'd function on vow of scars

civic ocean
#

Does phoenix skin work through vow of scars, or no

proven orbit
#

a little bit of gaslighting never hurt

proven orbit
#

I miss stubborn roots...

sour cape
sour cape
proven orbit
#

stubborn defiance

sour cape
#

ohhh

#

Yea, -100 hp is too punishing

#

Although I see iin feedback people say it's too strong? 🤔

proven orbit
#

Yeah I just saw that one as well

sour cape
#

idk lol you have to take it after you already got hp

#

and doesnt play well wtih scars

civic ocean
#

surprised you don't like phoenix skin arya its built for people who like 4 hours runs

sour cape
#

and neither Apollo or Hestia boost hp gain..

#

I was only offered it when I had 101 hp lol

proven orbit
#

It will let you get through the biomes and all and then the bosses will take the toll, so I'm unsure how strong that actually is

proven orbit
sour cape
#

The Aphro single boon is often pheonix skin but doesnt cost you max hp

#

and Aphro actually boosts hp you get

proven orbit
sour cape
#

Yep

proven orbit
#

Mmm, it's not as flexible a lot of time, especially on lower rarities, but it is more practically applicable, ye

civic ocean
#

I feel like it would be super easy to get Phoenix Skin to a place where it's cracked with no timer it's infinite health

#

Like frinos + titan + 2 centaur hearts is already like 60 hp that infinitely regenerates?

proven orbit
#

how many demonstrations of the unfathomable strength of stubborn roots did we get?

sour cape
#

Yea but you need those boons beforehand

civic ocean
#

you start with frinos and titan and you get offered like 4+ centaur hearts before a duo boon arya be fr

proven orbit
#

I do suppose a 44 fear run where you keep arcanas and no timer will be pretty funny

sour cape
#

thats a lotta major finds, idk whats the average amount you get per zone

#

plus reserving all your mana

civic ocean
sour cape
#

like what?

civic ocean
#

Phoenix skin + 2 cent hearts is 5 major finds, Coarse Grit is basically 7

sour cape
#

Coarse Grit is a lot better though

civic ocean
#

is it?

sour cape
#

Yes

civic ocean
#

Phoenix Skin is infinite hp

#

is Coarse Grit infinite hp?

sour cape
#

I don't think it works that way Coarse Grit would negate Vow of Suffering, Pheonix Skin you'd often just die

civic ocean
#

as long as you can get to like 60-70 hp or so I'm convinced you would pretty much never die to anything in the game in the right contexts

sour cape
#

but try it out and see!

proven orbit
#

Can you heal in a practical way on bosses?

civic ocean
#

So I can see why that person gave the feedback that it's overpowered, on low fear it's probably close to a guaranteed win

sour cape
#

Not really, you need to stay still for 3s

civic ocean
#

no you don't, you just need to not take or deal damage

sour cape
#

oh wait actually just not deal dmg

#

hmmmm

#

Well mostly have Toula for the fish so its hard to have enough hp to get it

civic ocean
#

what

proven orbit
#

guess this is why frinos best boy

sour cape
#

And like for high fear, a lot of things will kill you throug hthe regen

#

plus making combat heal worse

proven orbit
#

To be 100% fair, the game probably should be balanced around general audience aka low fear firstmost

civic ocean
#

a lot of things will kill you through coarse grit too

sour cape
#

yea for low fear, could see it being good if you got enough hp beforehand

prime yoke
#

hi, I just joined and am intrigued in the build being discussed. how does it work

sour cape
#

Apollo/Hestia take duo boon for hp regen

proven orbit
sour cape
#

pretty unique effect taht you have reliable healing passively

#

but is pretty costly to obtain

tall notch
#

Coarse grit seems just better to me

prime yoke
#

does the regen happen outside of combat

sour cape
#

same

#

yes, you should heal after every room

crystal wyvern
#

I think the two are kinda hard to compare because they work or not based on context, like I would take Coarse Grit on high fear 100%, but the other way around for low fear

prime yoke
tall notch
#

But I guess phoenix skin no timer is a way to play the game

sour cape
#

Although at low fear, Aphro boon would get you a lot of Pheonix skin's benefit

tall notch
#

What gods do you need for that duo again?

sour cape
#

of post combat healing, and i dont know anybody whos kiting enemies around for in combat heal in low fear... just kill them

civic ocean
#

aphros boon is completely useless if you take too much damage, how is that in any way the same as phoenix skin

proven orbit
#

my valuable contribution to the topic
coarse grit let me live through chronos with 50 attacks taken
phoenix skin I would have died in around 12
i am not biased whatsoever bouldy

sour cape
#

you shouldn't be taking thaat much dmg in lower fears

civic ocean
#

like you can get healthy rebound disabled

sour cape
#

besides bosses but then you got afountain right after

civic ocean
proven orbit
#

technically yeah

prime yoke
#

would it be possible to go for both

proven orbit
#

is a human being, let alone the one that may need phoenix skin's assistance, reliable enough to achieve that?

sour cape
#

very difficult, would need to get all the EArth from Demeter

#

since neither HEstia or Apollo give Earth

civic ocean
sour cape
#

Coarse grit is a lot more practical since it protects you vs one shots and doesnt have a health penalty

#

so you're not needing to take centaur hearts

civic ocean
#

sure, as practical as it's going to be to stack a bunch of earth boons when Hera gets nerfed, at any rate.

prime yoke
#

cant kill me if theyre dead

sour cape
#

Hephaestus is also good for Earth

#

and Hermes has Earth as well

proven orbit
#

works vice versa too
the best offense is a good defense (and a bunch of vengeful boons) bouldy

sour cape
#

😎

#

winning by doing nothing is good stuff

civic ocean
proven orbit
#

Y'know, now I'm curious what counts as "dealing damage" for phoenix skin condition

hidden mural
#

so im playing axe, does "adding power to attack" things also include omega attack the spin?

sour cape
#

if its singular its just the normal attack

civic ocean
sour cape
#

if it says "attacks" its both nomral and omega

proven orbit
#

Is it purely the attack/special/cast actions? Is it applying to sprint too?

prime yoke
proven orbit
#

Would companions doing damage for you count as you dealing damage?

sour cape
#

prob not 🤔

civic ocean
prime yoke
#

I keep dying to eris at high heat, I keep eating all of eris's hits because of sloppy movement, any advice

sour cape
#

Hestia Sprint helps a lot

#

As well as the time slow hex

#

If you keep sprinting with Hestia, she can't actually hit you except with her rockets which are easy to avoid

#

or if you she runs directly into you

prime yoke
#

im hestiant to use hestia sprint because I feel like to get the most use I need to run at the bullets and im going to mess up the sprint in a way where i just ran face first into damge

sour cape
#

Artemis or Pan or a weapon that spams time slow are also quite effective vs her

#

you can just run back and forth away from her

trail wharf
#

So how good is the strength arcana, I realize I've never really used it, but with the amount of times I end up under 30% health vs chronos it seems pretty strong for that fight specifically?

sour cape
#

drop a cast for some dmg and keep sprinting

#

I think Strength is very strong and I use it at high fear. Over 3 DDs, it's like over 50% more hp

prime yoke
sour cape
#

and if you get armor you get benefit of high hp and dmg

#

Even if not White Antler, just the damage reductions quite strong on STrength

#

and it makes your heal effects to stay at the 30% threshold more powerful

prime yoke
#

and some good 8 fear picks?

sour cape
#

Wandering Monster, Vow of Forsaking, Vow of Fury would be my order

#

First 2 are pretty much free and Fury is very efficient for the fear

white steppe
#

timer 2 is also pretty free

sour cape
#

yea at 8 fear its not bad

prime yoke
#

really?

sour cape
#

vow of forsaking and wandering don't really affect difficulty that much without additional monster buffing effects. And 7 mins is reasonable in a base difficulty run

#

but Fury you might as well start getting used to it too

#

because you will be taking both ranks at higher than 8 fear

civic ocean
#

I play it with Antler and that's pretty much it

sour cape
#

I would say 50% more hp for 5 grasp is pretty decent value

civic ocean
#

it's not really 50% more hp

prime yoke
#

oh another question, is the keepsake ranking refreshing the abilitys of the keepsake an intentional feature

civic ocean
prime yoke
#

because its a nice rare boost to runs where I get to use a keepsakes effect twice

sour cape
#

it comes out to close to that with 3 DDs

Say you have 100 hp, you would be able to take (100+30+(40+30)x3)=340 dmg before you die with strength

Compared to (100+40*3)=220 dmg without Strenght, 54% extra ehp.

civic ocean
sour cape
#

true but it is fairly signficant and scales with any extra hp you get

#

And you have moments where Strength is active and you have armor

civic ocean
#

if you have 100 hp total and 60 HP at that moment and you take a chronos boomerang for 50, how much HP did strength save you?

prime yoke
#

just get a lot of hearts and the healing staff so that your 30% is still a lot of health

sour cape
#

exactly yea

#

Or have Coarse Grit so you basically always will get the extra 30% hp per life

civic ocean
#

Strength literally does nothing with CG

prime yoke
#

or engraved pin

civic ocean
#

like your damage is set to 15, it's not reduced

sour cape
#

nah it reduces the dmg you take from a lot of hits

#

a lot of hits dont do above 30 dmg

prime yoke
#

engraved pin works before the first DD but then after that not again for the room

civic ocean
#

Coarse Grit and Strength don't interact in any meaningful way

sour cape
#

Coarse grit makes sure you don't get one shot past the strength trheshold

#

since the max you can lose is 15, so often you'd then be getting the full value of Strength (or prevent another one shot from wasting all that ehp_

civic ocean
#

that's explicitly not true

#

You are not getting the maximum value of strength if strength just isn't working on some of the hits you take

sour cape
#

So for big hits, Coarse grit covers you, for small hits, strength would cover you would be the reasoning

#

and you avoid situations like you were describing earlier where a 50 dmg hit eats up a lot of STrength's value

crystal wyvern
#

you sacrifice the max value yes, but you get more consistent value at least, but still honestly it's a close call

civic ocean
#

This is also ignoring the fact where the 5 extra grasp is saving you more HP by being active before you drop to 30% hp

sour cape
#

I mean max hp doesnt do anything before you need to use it yes

civic ocean
#

Strength doesn't give you any extra damage either

sour cape
#

I don't see this argument for Titan, if you don't drop below 40 hp, it also is doing nothing 😠

civic ocean
#

Titan gives you 40 max mana which is more damage than Strength gives you over the course of a run by a LOT

sour cape
#

but if you're playing Grasp for hp, its not bad

#

and you can always choose to remain at 30%

#

In practice for me, in ERebus im often at the Strength threshold

civic ocean
#

Yes you can choose to give up 70% of your HP to activate Strength I guess????

#

Like obviously that works for stuff like antler

prime yoke
#

one run I using the crystalline figurine against Hecate pulled judgement, the chances are pretty low but is the potential to enter the chronos fight with the full arcana worth the risk of rng pulling an arcana that you dont have any way to use

sour cape
#

yea Antler is good, whats wrong with it?

#

i think its kinda tooo good

civic ocean
#

If you are running a specific build with white antler strength is a good take, for sure, other than that it's just making you do a run with 5 less grasp unless you get your ass beat 💀

tall notch
sour cape
#

If you are having trouble, Strength is a very strong Arcana

#

if you are crushing content, then no

civic ocean
#

It's a good way to make sure you have trouble I think

sour cape
#

idk you would be replacing Boatman for it

tall notch
#

Strength is an antler pick and that's about it

civic ocean
sour cape
#

so -4 rolls and the starting gold. I think Strength would be worth a boon you get in Erebus and the 4 rerolls are kind of a late game thing to get your build assembled.

#

Not ideal but like its not a terriible trade either

civic ocean
#

it's a pretty bad trade

sour cape
#

🤷I just drop to 30% in Erebus and enjoy having equivalent of a 50% attack boon for cleariing

#

the early power is quite useful

#

And not that unsafe

civic ocean
#

what would you say your clear rate and avg time for Erebus is over your last 20 or so 32 clears, do you have any screencaps you can post

sour cape
#

I don't use the Timer but I think it's noticeably easier for me

civic ocean
#

you don't use the in game timer?

sour cape
#

no where is it?

civic ocean
#

it's in options

#

what's the sample size we are dealing with here for the drop to 30% Strength Erebus runs

sour cape
#

I've done like 6 runs, Strength + God trinket starts

#

instead of Boatman

vast rapids
#

Just beat chronos for the first time. I used the sister blades.

mystic bison
#

10 rerolls > strength

mystic bison
vast rapids
#

honestly it was an intesrsting build i went for but it worked in my favor

mystic bison
#

Soon enough you will be BTFOing Kronos consistently

vast rapids
#

the amount of times i got to second stage chronos i am so happy to finally beat him

#

took me 30 something nights

mystic bison
#

Nice, run 27 is when I beat him first time I think

lament aurora
#

hey guys does someone have a spam build or a good build for the first victory against that old man? I did the momos+poseidon+special build a couple times and reached 2nd phase of chronos 2 times but he slapped tf out of me lmao

sweet terrace
#

Is it just me or is Hera have the worst option when it comes to boons? It just seams like all of her boons are a double edged sword. Others have some but hers seam to be all from what I have see

vast rapids
#

i used mostly zues and demeter build

mystic bison
magic moss
vast rapids
#

it was a no magic build