h2-builds-and-combat

[glossy timber]

So just hera then

[low bear]

demeter and hephy for defense and status effects

[glossy timber]

all right, cheers

[magic moss]

or you can just shmix things up and not go hera

[glossy timber]

are specials even used with EOS?

[magic moss]

no

[glossy timber]

👍

[low bear]

not really but you could for status effects

[magic moss]

if you really want to try hard reroll for born gain start with hera's keepsake

[glossy timber]

I do hera as the first keepsake to get born again, usually

[low bear]

enjoy born gain while it lasts

[magic moss]

imma be real my favorite combo is charon with hestia special

[low bear]

wait is that even a good combo

[magic moss]

the animation and color just feels so satisfying even tho it kinda dogwater

no it absolutely is not lmfao

[low bear]

ah yeah Hestia's effects look so badass I wish it wasn't dog

burning should have built in AoE with scorch that might make it interesting

[magic moss]

hestia requires lots of hits to stack the scorch, and charon's axe, which is designed as like a one hit kill is really bad with a multihit requiring boon lmfao

[ionic moon]

wait til balance patches hit and hestia with selene on circe becomes the meta for 1.0

[low bear]

Dio Hestia duo will go hard obviously

[magic moss]

unless momus gets nerfed i dont ever see this happening but i wish

[low bear]

I think Hestia is bound to get a buff, most people agree Scorch is meh

even Scalding Vapor can be kinda bad because it deactivates slip and possibly takes out origination lol

[ashen timber]

How did you avoid the instakill?!

[magic moss]

selene hex to make himself invuln

[ashen falcon]

👆

[ashen timber]

Ahh, gotcha. Hard to tell from the miniplayer

[ashen falcon]

Dark Side hex

[magic moss]

also i found out that it technically isnt an instakill if you have god mode enabled, it just does 150 dmg with 80% dmg reduction making it very survivable

[rough fjord]

artemis aspect parry also blocks it!

[ashen timber]

Huh, good to know...

[spare kite]

Anything that blocks dmg works, you can even iframe it

[magic moss]

^ this includes the hermes sprint block

[spare kite]

Coarse grit also reduces the dmg to 15

[magic moss]

iirc the only exception is the axe shield

[ashen timber]

Ooooh

[spare kite]

If you have anything that increases dmg taken you also can make it deal more lmfao
Had it hit me for 1028 one time

[ashen timber]

Dang

Does Coarce Grit also limit the damage taken despite Vows?

[magic moss]

every source of damage so yes

[spare kite]

Yeah

Coarse grit is applied at the end so
Dmg > 15 = cap it

[ashen timber]

Sweet

[magic moss]

damn rookie numbers i once got hit for >3k with the eris keepsake and suffering 2

[spare kite]

Damn

[magic moss]

i hate nightmare farming btw, its so annoying to do since its just a 1/3 chance of charon's shop and just bones

6 more to go

[vestal trout]

Hear me out
Eris + max damage vow + max first strike vow

[magic moss]

aight bet runnign it now

need to max out the keepsake anyway

the hard part is going to be not getting hit until phase 2

i got hit for 16 by the screaming thing in erebus 1st hit

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[vestal trout]

Demeter and the arcana eating hits could help

[steel sequoia]

put toula to fish and use rod, i get like 4-6 fishes in a run and sometimes the voidstalker gimme 200 bones

[magic moss]

no ik i have been doing this, just need 6 more and im done maxing every aspect

uhhhhhhhhhhh i just got hit for 40

man its apollo demeter hestia on charon hm

not the greatest combo

[steel sequoia]

i have 120hs and got all maxed, its painfull tho but its good to have toula around

[magic moss]

120 hs?

https://imgur.com/a/rLG4Vwd

if you'll excuse me im turning on godmode

now i could ruin the whole point of this and pick coarse grit but we ball

[sage compass]

How many encounters will you have on average in the first night? Just wondering if lion fang keepsake will make it to hectate

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah dont turn on suffering 2

[magic moss]

ah i love having the apollo demeter duo on charon very useful

[magic moss]

@tired fulcrum no

[rigid marten]

Guys i need information for the boon that I am looking for to get from Zeus

Shocking loss how to get that?

[sage compass]

From looking online it looks like:

One of these Boons:
・Heaven Strike
・Heaven Flourish
・Storm Ring
・Thunder Sprint
・Ionic Gain

One of these Boons:
・Double Strike
・Toasting Fork

One of these Boons:
・Static Shock
・Electric Overload

[magic moss]

yup, so you need to have at least 1 boon from each category, then afterwards any zeus boons you receieve have a chance to have shocking loss

[tired fulcrum]

Erebus has 11 rooms before endshop. Youll prob get arachne and midshop. So thats 9 encounters if you dont get a fountain or nemesis got there first or chaos. Anyways you should take a god keepsake in biome 1

[steel sequoia]

this site has a pretty good support for boons https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/

[sage compass]

Ah yeah, the god keepsake biome 1, i use to do that in hades 1. completely forgot about that haha

[rigid marten]

@sage compass I know that boon guide and it is the only one you can find on online, that just did not help at all despite all the attempts I have made with arranged witchcraft cards I forgot what htey are called

[steel sequoia]

sometimes you need to reroll for getting lucky

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah even with all the prereqs legendaries are still like base 10% per slot

[tall notch]

Did you find it by now? I wasn't looking at my phone

[rigid marten]

Doing it for quite some time @ @steel sequoia like for 8 hours apperantly

[steel sequoia]

do you have duo boons arcana on? maybe switch that off might help

[tired fulcrum]

Legendaries have priority over duos

[steel sequoia]

idk, id try anything after 8hs tbh

tho i finished all my stuff except trial of haste lmao

[ashen timber]

oof, i once had to pick between a duo and a legendary, both were on the fated list too, so that was a tough choice

I think it was the hera leg vs hera/pos duo

[rigid marten]

@steel sequoia I cannot be the only one, right?

[ionic moon]

you can use vow of forsaking plus max rerolls from arcana

[rigid marten]

I did those too

[magic moss]

update on the run i have 80% dmg reduction from god mode and cerberus hit me for 25 i fear for my life

[tired fulcrum]

Can you like turn off god mode at chronos for the funny number

[magic moss]

oh i absolutely am

i just dont want to die while getting there so i have god mode on

[tired fulcrum]

Oh i thought it was only a prerun toggle thing

[magic moss]

nope you can toggle it at any point in options

UH I HAVE 80% DMG REDUCTION AND HESTIA'S DUO ROOM PROJECTILE DID 24

THAT IS A FIELD HAZARD, NOT AN ATTACK BTW

[violet temple]

does circe's word of greater girth increase hitbox size

[magic moss]

HERE WE GO, CHRONOS TIME

[wild pine]

That sounds pretty good to me? You can get a ranged laser cast with cyclone and a strong mana gain, and the apollo/demeter cast duo

[magic moss]

MAN I GOT HIT PHASE 1 im restarting

https://tenor.com/view/dies-of-cringe-cringe-gif-20747133

i cant restart the fight it just booted me back to the start

[violet temple]

32 SURFACE FINALLY

[tired fulcrum]

rip

Maybe should make a savestate next time

[magic moss]

dont know how to savestate

[violet temple]

took 30 nights 💀

[bleak night]

Can't stop playing Local Climate Charon lol

[bleak night]

Oooh, grats

[steel sequoia]

i'm on charon boat too

but my controller soon will arrive so i will play another stuffs

[bleak night]

Oh, swapping from kmb ?

[plain fossil]

I tried controller today, its pretty different from mkb

Sprinting control is much easier but aiming ranged cast is aids

[opal saffron]

Aiming the skull omega attack is also a bit annoying

[bleak night]

Join me in Joycon (L) + Mouse

[plain fossil]

Wtf lmao

[bleak night]

Yeah

[round shell]

true. i have been playing with an xbox controller since i opened first time, but ive been considering temporarily switching to mkb for the torches weapon(s)

[bleak night]

I just play Joycon + Mouse with side buttons most of the time

[round shell]

how

[plain fossil]

Yea no i hate side buttons they give me thumb pain

[round shell]

#WayTooDumb

[plain fossil]

Ur setup is very unique tho lul

[plain fossil]

?

[bleak night]

Wdym ?

Just bluetooth your two Joycons and put the Right one aside

[round shell]

can i get a pic?

im very curious

[bleak night]

When I'm on my laptop again sure. It's almost 4am

[plain fossil]

I cant really even imagine it ngl like i can imagine side button mouse lots of ppl do that but only left hand joycon sounds a little unhinged

[round shell]

i will wait for your dm for eternity

[bleak night]

Joycon has side buttons too

[ashen falcon]

Glorious Disaster + Torrential Downpour damage can get nasty big numbers
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1246276254555050075/1246276412021669950/Hades_2_-_BIG_7.8K_DAMAGE_RIP.mp4?ex=665bccdb&is=665a7b5b&hm=5eed13780c92fb14068dc627ad81a0c0f82661b433c6dca3c66e0f5681f54fd2&

[opal saffron]

I mean you can just bluetooth joycons to a PC and steam detects them as a controller

[plain fossil]

Maybe i will bust out my fg stick

[bleak night]

It has two triggers and two assignable side buttons

[plain fossil]

It probably works ok for these games

[round shell]

holy molly

funny you died tho lmfaoooooo

[ashen falcon]

I know. So sad. He was a poke away

[bleak night]

Oh, you lost

[past salmon]

I hate it here

[opal saffron]

F

[bleak night]

Profanity filter moment

What were you typing btw? If it was long you can ask the mods to copy paste it in your dms

[plain fossil]

Dont feel bad i get modded at least once a day

[past salmon]

I was just saying joycon+mouse is unhinged lol

[round shell]

dude

[bleak night]

Have you tried it

[plain fossil]

Tbf it being unhinged is independent of whether its actually good

[past salmon]

No but I have played single joycon 😭

[bleak night]

It's actually really comfortable. I don't have to lean towards my keyboard, so I'm just resting on my back while one arm is extended towards a mouse

[opal saffron]

You can play hades 2 on single joycon ??

[bleak night]

I'm not playing it sideways, for reference

[round shell]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229836992829984830/1246277889654263838/image.png?ex=665bce3b&is=665a7cbb&hm=42b97f1ae6ba56d9d4bc954593095124034cac4fcd4ddc6b235ebe5a05d6bc57&

[bleak night]

It's normal orientation on my left hand + mouse on the right

[plain fossil]

Ppl play medea skulls and thats more unhinged than joycon mouse but they keep winning

[bleak night]

Single sideways joycon is for Smash Bros 8 player fights with friends and Mario Party

[past salmon]

Yeah ik
I just presume it to be like regular controller mouse hybrid.
But it sounds worse

[plain fossil]

Well its lighter

Regular controller with 1h is kinda uncomfortable due to weight

[bleak night]

But why? This is better because I only have to hold something a third the size and weight of a normal controller for movement

[past salmon]

Don't talk smack about Medea (I'm on 26 loss streak on 45F now help)

[plain fossil]

See

[past salmon]

I love when my Erebus is amazing and then seaserpentroom.mp4

[plain fossil]

If it makes u feel better im trying to do zero mana mel skulls on surface 32 and i feel like im THIS close to the correct plan but every time polyphemus bricks me

[round shell]

REAL

[plain fossil]

Ha its funny even with all the garbage turned on seaserpent doesnt rly bother me u just have to budget more timer for it and play like a wimp

What does bother me with 5 minute timer is that thornwitch in a1 i swear its impossible to do it hitless on high fear without taking 57 years

It seems to be better to just eat it to kill it faster

[wise nest]

fo2 misery

[midnight bone]

I'm finding that a cool extra perk of Glamor Gain is that you can find the real Hecate easily 😂

[past salmon]

But budgeting timer for medea feels bad because it just doesn't struggle for time usually unless seaserpentroom.mp4

[plain fossil]

Yea i know its some other level of tilt on medea lul

But hey ur on high fear u do what u gotta do

[opal saffron]

Really hoping they fix medea skulls not hitting oceanus serpents consistently

[past salmon]

There is one room I. Oceanus with only like 40 sea serpents
I lost 3 minutes on it
Like wtf

[plain fossil]

Oh did u mean that room

[past salmon]

Get me out plz

[plain fossil]

I thought u meant the miniboss

[past salmon]

Nah the MINIBOSS is fine

[plain fossil]

Because thats what all the medea ppl complain about

[past salmon]

No the miniboss sucks but the regular ones suck mote

[opal saffron]

(The miniboss is NOT fine but yeah the regular rooms are also kinda bad)

[plain fossil]

Idk i dont touch that weapon lul it makes me play like a nutcase

If i want to jump into a million mobs im going to play mel torches tyvm

[past salmon]

The miniboss has like 6 locations where you can actually do damage to it so you just don't play until it goes to one of those

[plain fossil]

What do u skip on 45

Other than arcana

[bleak night]

On Medea?

[past salmon]

My fear setup is stupid Noone should ever copy it

[bleak night]

I only did 40 on it so idk

[past salmon]

I actually refuse to turn on revenants

[bleak night]

I hate them, yeah

[plain fossil]

On 5 minute timer i dont think anybody turns on revenants right

I certainly dont i play too slow

[past salmon]

I mean on Medea is probably correct
I don't hurt untime unless unlucky oceanus

Medea probably has one of the easier Erebus tbh

[plain fossil]

Yea i can see

Its so quick at blowing up packs

Id still be scared of 5min + revenants

Because if u dont click all the revenants then its like vow of commotion which is horrendous

[past salmon]

I still dunno what the best gods are tho
Heph is like required
Dem Hera would probably be best but I don't go for dem unless she falls into my lap cuz I'm dumb

[plain fossil]

Triple earth is meta for everyone that doesnt want a ranged cast right

I dont even click poseidon on momus anymore

[past salmon]

Pretty much I just don't like going for it
I'd rather be dumb and click on Zeus and watch big number

It's fine I've gotten to chronos 3 times now it's only a matter of time surely

All 3 chronos runs got there on actually deaths door tho lmao

[plain fossil]

Is there a big dps difference between zeus special and say hera special

[past salmon]

Hera is probably better if you get collosal early

But idk tbh
It's hard to judge how much blitz is doing sometimes

[plain fossil]

If theres a use case for blitz its this one ig

[past salmon]

Most special boons just feel bad without the hammer

Plus Hera is just going on the attack anyway generally so a solid chunk of the time you will just get locked out of her special anyway

[timber pawn]

I've almost streaked all 5 weps back to back going mostly 3 earth gods and spiteful strength duo

It's a pretty solid 32 setup

You can do it lots of other ways but I usually feel pretty safe on these runs

Hera start can also be quite fast for a lot of weps, engagement ring can help you get out of erebus in ways most other boons cant

[past salmon]

I'm also probably just attached to it cuz my first 32F run was with Medea and I pretty much had only Blitz special+Hermes cuz I did onion lol
Didn't even get an attack was certainly a run

[timber pawn]

Wew, now that's a hard mode 32 weapon haha

[past salmon]

Honestly 32 is free compared to the hell that 45 has been 😭

[timber pawn]

Ya 32 is pretty comfy for me these days, I imagine compared to 45 it does feel like a walk in the park lol

After trying to streak 32 for a bit I've turned to antler runs/speed attempts which have been fun

[past salmon]

Speedruns r fun

I'll do one just for fun every now and then

[timber pawn]

I've managed sub 10 once or twice and am pretty happy with that

[past salmon]

Though I actively refuse to use Momus lol

[cursive ruin]

Imma just settle for my 6 fear runs thanks.. maybe when extreme measures comes out ill try higher fears

[past salmon]

Yeah sub 10 is all I was aiming for aswell.
Got it once, I'll probably go for a better time at some point but for now I'm just going for high fear runs

[timber pawn]

Same, I have a 32 fear run with persephone on the sdc board, it's like #11 or something, makes me chuckle. Because it's momus momus momus persephone

[bleak night]

When do they nerf Momus to the ground

[past salmon]

Yeah all I ever see is Momus I'm so tired of it lol.
Like I get it
But especially in victory boasting seeing literally every 32 fear clear be Momus is getting tiring

[cursive ruin]

How do they even nerf momus? Do they give it an alternate (bad) moveset like guan yu? Or worse the max health debuff?💀

[past salmon]

Just rework it imo
Adding power to special is stupid especially since it's meant to be it's secondary effect

[magic moss]

just nerf the base damage it gives imo, or make it so its healing effect is affected by scars

better yet, have scars reduce the threshold of healing (ie. scars 1 reduces it to 40% max, 2 reduces it to 30%, etc)

[tired fulcrum]

At least make it not the most boring aspect ever

[cursive ruin]

I didnt even know scars didnt affect momus.. thats insane💀

That vow is just free then

[magic moss]

yeah on top of adding 30 base special power, it is one of the only forms of healing available not affected by scars, and its on its base kit

[past salmon]

See it's strength isn't what I hate the most about it.
It's the fact it is so strong and you literally just mash special

[magic moss]

thats uh saying the same thing no

[tired fulcrum]

The just mash special part. Its a boring aspect

[past salmon]

^

[cursive ruin]

Couldve been someth like landing specials boost your attack power.. that could add an interesting sort of gameplay loop

[sour cape]

Scars not affecting heals from weapons is consistent with H1

Since like would be kinda feels dumb if vows just made your aspect not work

[magic moss]

i actually would have like momus to have enemies hit by the special take more damage

[past salmon]

Gyan yu moment

[magic moss]

so it keeps its overall strength, doesnt make it special spam, and is possibly another debuff to work with

tho it might be busted as hell with the curse arcana

[ionic moon]

I mean... try playing Charon with panic and 2 blue hearts

[cursive ruin]

Mm yeah that would allow for more versatility.. you could use throw casts for a finisher then instead

[sour cape]

I think it just needs to be reworked, increasing special dmg is just uninteresting

[past salmon]

You could make it something like Aspect of Demeter from H1.
After X specials your attack does X

[sour cape]

Charons alrtie once you get cyclones to break the shields

And Apollo dmg does mostly go through

[ionic moon]

yeah but good luck in erebus

[cursive ruin]

I usually start with spin to win.. cast then retreat and blast

Until ofc i get a better boon setup

[sour cape]

Its pretty rough, but injust statted apollo, Erebus enemies have lower hp, so it kinda sucks they absorb bulk of your dmg but you get through with Solar Ring

[ionic moon]

as far as momus, I think they could make it like eris rail. no +special power, keep the omega special absorb, and give a damage steroid instead of a heal

[magic moss]

that would feel awful to play ngl

[cursive ruin]

Hey as long as they dont give it a max health debuff im happy😅

[magic moss]

the momus absorb healing rn is more of an added bonus, trying to force it into its gameplay loop would make every fight have a far more skewed risk/reward type, especially in higher fear runs where damage sticks far more easily

either that, or it encourages a decently boring loop of hug wall, absorb power, fight for like 2 seconds, dip

[cursive ruin]

Yeah point blank omega specials are kinda rough

[magic moss]

especially since it has a cast time as an omega attack and with momus runs not even using any omegas outside of end of room healing its essentially a full rework

[ionic moon]

yes that's the point, it needs a full rework

[magic moss]

i think that if instead of increasing base power, momus giving enemies a debuff so that they take more damage from other sources would be better

it keeps the special focus identity of the aspect, but also encourages a more diverse playstyle than just special spamming

[tired fulcrum]

idk that sound like youd just keep spamming poseidon special if its a global buff

[plain fossil]

Lmao thats funny

[hasty patrol]

anybody got a good 32 fear biuld for the special spam poseidon biul

[magic moss]

Momus -> Poseidon special and aim for any special daedalus upgrade
Dominance 3, Rebuke 2, Fury 1, Suffering 2, Commotion 3, Haunting 1, Wandering 2, Scars 3, Destitution 1, Panic 1, Forsaking 1, Arrogance 2, Desperation 1

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1246297377619316736/image.png?ex=665be061&is=665a8ee1&hm=2ee295ad0d9b23fca8dca745dc31458209d99e074ec68b5ae6bb6461c42ea83e&

When Momus is nerfed we'll engage in money laundering instead

[bleak night]

4300 🤑

[civic ocean]

I got the duo in the last shop I would have tilted off the face of the earth

but it was all I could get from 2 gods

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml

[bleak night]

is the damage still +5 power per 100 gold or is it +5% now ?

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1245501891300036699/Hades_II_2024-05-29_15-13-21.mp4?ex=665b9e87&is=665a4d07&hm=be31d6e40dc949c573368d7dbcdec2a2324a3586c540d67ff0a21a962e6c55da& golden rule real

Its defo +5

Look at that damage

[civic ocean]

It's +power per 100 gold

but it applies to each tick of Arctic Ring

So each omega cast was dealing somewhere in the area of 2500-3000 damage?

[bleak night]

That's not intended, right ?

[tired fulcrum]

It aint power its flat damage im pretty sure

[civic ocean]

I have no clue what is intended or not there

It works the same as money slash from H1 IIRC

[plain fossil]

Its not consistent with the wording, certainly

[civic ocean]

Either way I managed to get a 32 win with Psycho Blades and Money Laundering

So that's the rotation set

tmrw I start a month long rotating wep volume challenge

Gonna go for 40 Chronos 40 Eris

[bleak night]

dear god, man

[civic ocean]

Probably too much but we see

[sterile portal]

Really fun debuff build with Charon Axe. Every cast slows/weakens enemies and the special freezes/slows guardians even more. Pretty cool https://imgur.com/6ACOoS9

This run was really slow but that's just because I took all the extra chambers in tartarus lol

[bleak night]

have you tried the Local Climate build on Charon? It's really fun

[past salmon]

I do have to try the local climate build dont I
everyone keeps saying its cool

[civic ocean]

It's also inconsistent I think

Charon is not a very consistent weapon atm

I am wondering if Local Climate is actually bad for money laundering specifically because of how difficult it makes Chronos and to a lesser extent Cerberus

[odd ruin]

question, does the "god pool" work the same in h2 as it did h1 not sure what the actual term for it is

[magic moss]

yes

[odd ruin]

thats good to know

so I take it try to get the 4 gods you're going for in the first zone?

[tired fulcrum]

Its 3 gods in 2

[plain fossil]

God pool isnt quite the same its 3 gods now

[odd ruin]

oof

makes it a bit easier ig

[tired fulcrum]

Its an advantage not an oof

You can still force gods if you want more for some reason

[plain fossil]

Typically u aim for 2 gods in first zone and force the third with ur a2 keepsake

[odd ruin]

does the pool also apply to charons shop? I'd assume yes?

[plain fossil]

Yes

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah, though like shop can still make you end up with a 4 god pool if you pick up your 3rd god in the shop and the next door isnt in your pool

[magic moss]

that and with god keepsakes, that can also mix things up

[odd ruin]

ok, thanks for the help

[odd ruin]

another question regarding the god keepsakes, if you use their effect I assume their chance to spawn goes back down to normal?

[civic ocean]

They have a 1/3 chance to spawn if they're in the pool

[odd ruin]

oh, so does that only count towards until you pick it up then?

[civic ocean]

No, the keepsakes have two effects

[odd ruin]

yeah I was talking about the higher chance for them to appear

[civic ocean]

Until you get that god's boon it always appears if a god boon can be rolled

after you take a boon from them it stops doing that

also you can rarify their boon

[odd ruin]

ok, thanks

[timber pawn]

ya, it definitely can make things tougher when you have to be up in melee a lot. I've also found that Demeter cast for the local climate approach can work pretty well, not as much single target damage as zeus cast but a lot more CC for rooms and stuff, which can be nice

if you end up with apollo in the god pool you can also have an expanding local climate cast which is pretty funny, and works well with demeter cast too

[tired fulcrum]

why can exiting an ephyra room put you right in front of cyclops eyes

[violet temple]

leaving a room to immediately lose a dd to a barrel 🗿

[bleak night]

I haven't seen a Medea room in forever

[civic ocean]

its so bad for me if I don't get money laundering going tho

omega cast and omega attack chronos for like 400 damage and take like 45 back

thats with demeter cast

[timber pawn]

Ya its pretty brutal

Sometimes I don't see local climate till fields and I just don't want to play those runs lol

[civic ocean]

did u see me hit chronos with the entire canadian economy tho

[timber pawn]

Lmao, no I think I missed it, link?

[civic ocean]

#h2-victory-boasting message

Each tick of Arctic ring doing like 250 dmg

[timber pawn]

Wtf hahaha

That's amazing

[zenith bolt]

i had a run the other day where i got ocean's bounty + double up proc twice on two different money drops in tartarus

like 2000 gold from that alone

[warped harness]

money laundering?

[civic ocean]

Golden Rule + Casts that deal tick damage (non-scorch)

[warped harness]

ah like heph?

[zenith bolt]

mfw global flat damage because the % is not a %

[sour cape]

Unlimited money 👀👀

[civic ocean]

no, demeter usually

[warped harness]

oh

[sour cape]

Wait op for Pan???

[warped harness]

yea probably

[zenith bolt]

pan is good enough as-is with pos but probably yeah

[civic ocean]

Hera start for born gain and sworn spin then demeter for cast and cg and then poseidon for HAHA YES/Ocean Bounty and then the duo

[sour cape]

Pan money + take % boon?

Does % dmg inc multiply the flat?

[civic ocean]

Golden Rule just tacks on 5 dmg for every 100 gold u have

But it applies to casts that deal damage like Arctic or Storm Ring

[sour cape]

Oh yea those things

[warped harness]

do y'all think they'll add 3 more gods for like pairs we don't have or are we locked at the current 8 with all of their elements as-is

[sour cape]

add dmg to scorch ticks? 🤔🤔

[civic ocean]

nah

[sour cape]

😔😔

[civic ocean]

If you do happen to get Golden Rule and 4k gold tho

[zenith bolt]

sorry scorch is only allowed to have one thing that makes it good

[civic ocean]

Each tick of Arctic ring does 250 dmg or so

[warped harness]

i think we're missing fire/water, earth/wind?

[sour cape]

If you got 225 base dmg daggers + Aphrodite special 👀👀

[zenith bolt]

earth + air is done by both artemis and hermes

[civic ocean]

It doesnt get added to base

[sour cape]

hmmm?

[civic ocean]

It gets added at the end

[timber pawn]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the core and we get Artemis esque stuff for the remaining

[sour cape]

Poseidon splashes get boosted by dmg increases

[warped harness]

that's what i thought but i wasnt sure

[civic ocean]

golden rule doesnt

[sour cape]

Oof 💀

[ashen timber]

Well, uhh, I think i just killed this run by accident

[sour cape]

Welp guess just cast it is

[zenith bolt]

yeah im struggling to imagine them adding 3 more full gods + the extra 30ish? duos they'd need to add on top

[ashen timber]

Was roing a Hera build going for her legendary and zeus showed up, offering me both his legendary and the hera/zeus duo

[sour cape]

Yea more gods woukd be sooo many boons if they full gods

[ashen timber]

Echo gave me both

[zenith bolt]

concave stone moment

[ashen timber]

Now the build is shot, and I think I'm about to die, lol

wish me luck

[bleak night]

Concave Stone would be good if it let you choose the second boon

flipping a coin kinda sucks

[ashen timber]

I'm not super mad about it since i was going for fated list stuff and the duo also happened to be on it, but still...

[warped harness]

i thought it just made the menu appear a second time until i did use it

[ashen timber]

Yep, charybdis got me

It hurt losing Born Gain and Hera Atk

[sly turret]

What's the best weapon to clear 32+ fear with after Momus?

[zenith bolt]

king's ransom, the classy way to brick your build

[zenith bolt]

pan probably

[ashen timber]

Lol, now I gotta find Queens Ransom at some point for the List too

[civic ocean]

whatever u want you can do it with any of em, follow ur heart

[zenith bolt]

circe staff LFG

[broken pier]

I hope the number of people suiciding on moon starts convinces them to change them lol

[zenith bolt]

even hammer start kinda kills my mood

[broken pier]

I love hammer start when it rolls one I'm going for lol

[civic ocean]

I won two moon starts this week

[tired fulcrum]

But when its triple useless hammer

[civic ocean]

But yeah hope they change it soon

[zenith bolt]

i love hammer start and then selene offered as my first boon like either i drop rerolls and hope it turns into a god or just thug out having no boons for the first half of erebus

[sly turret]

What're the best hammers for medea?

[zenith bolt]

colossus tackle, uhh not sure what else

[bleak night]

Full Salvo if you aren't speedrunning

[broken pier]

Anybody know what chamber chronos is? I'm wondering if its poss to exp hammer after oceanus and have it last the whole time

[zenith bolt]

it varies depending on tartarus path

experimental hammer always lasts to the end of the run if you put it on at oceanus exit/mourning fields start

[broken pier]

ye i know that

[bleak night]

if you Chaos gate Fields once and skip all the extra rooms in Tartarus, you can get to Chronos with the Exp Hammer in Oceanus

[broken pier]

cause the anvil will always take ur exp hammer and give you two reggies

[bleak night]

Though I suppose you also need to go to shops along the way

[tired fulcrum]

Tart is 5 encounters unless you detour, fields is usually like 7 unless chaos

[ashen timber]

I don't think shops count against that

[zenith bolt]

fields like super high roll with chaos echo miniboss is like, 5 encounters counting cerb?

[broken pier]

nah its just encounters

[bleak night]

Shops don't count, yeah. You keep the hammers for battle encounters only

So it also depends on your luck with finding Narcissus and Echo

[broken pier]

does each reward in fields count as an enounter?

[modern wadi]

do we think we're getting flip side cards similar to green mirror in the first game?

[zenith bolt]

start -> chaos -> miniboss -> echo -> 3 encounter room -> shop -> cerberus

[civic ocean]

it isn't a set location

[bleak night]

Yes, because Hydraulic Might and Mint Condition activate during the start of it as well

[broken pier]

makes sense

[bleak night]

Location-wise it doesn't tick up, but it is an encounter

[broken pier]

so yeah, miniboss + echo in fields prolly can pull it off

• chaos

[zenith bolt]

assuming you get chaos and narcissus in oceanus i can see it working out maybe

would probably be ~5 encounters there?

[broken pier]

hmmm

[bleak night]

are there any enemies with green HP bars or effects that turn their HP bar green ?

[zenith bolt]

god rng with chaos for experimental hammer the whole run when

[tired fulcrum]

proceeds to get brick hammer for 20 encounters

[broken pier]

When i have my attack boon and a good gain I like to take chaos but so often its useless by the time I take it off

[zenith bolt]

not afaik, the only other hp bar colors than red/yellow/blue is pink for summoned allies

[bleak night]

Was wondering if the allies you make from corpses with Hex and Apollo-Hera duo can have Green HP bars rather than the pink ones

I'd find it more intuitive since green or blue means ally in a lot of games

[zenith bolt]

green projectiles for summoned allies when

[bleak night]

and since blue is already taken by the blue hearts, not an option

Also, I find it weird how you can just debuff your own minions

I think it's neat to infect it with Hitch and then have it also get AoE'd, but otherwise being able to use up my Hephaestus blast on it or freeze with Dem is kinda annoying

[broken pier]

I just rerolled a boss door and Nem /FREAKING/ stole it! #GIVE UP

[civic ocean]

hilarious

[zenith bolt]

average nemesis

[tired fulcrum]

nem moment

[ashen timber]

Oooh, I just found out Hitch is a great way to deal with Charybdis! Each tentacle counts as a separate enemy, so if there are a couple relatively close to one another, you can damage the boss 2-5 times with each hit!

Been focusing Hera boons trying to force an opportune queen's ransom for fated list and found that out just now

[past salmon]

I hate hepheastus I hate hepheastus I hate hepheastus I hate hepheastus

bro absolutely refused to give me trusty shield omg

another death to chronos

[lusty heron]

@past salmonare you activating the untaken boon choices gets axed fear ?

[past salmon]

yes I am doing 45F medea runs

[lusty heron]

ah ok then yeah yikes

[dense moss]

Just got to E||ris|| for the first time, figured I'd take the Pin instead of the Tooth for the 10 seconds of Impervious, I didn't realize the Pin only activates on your first DD of an Encounter; I figured it would go off for each one, so I ended up burning my middle charge trying to rush her down in an Impervious window that never came 🙃

[past salmon]

that would be kinda broken if it activated every DD

[civic ocean]

its kinda broken already tbh

[past salmon]

yeah no it is

[civic ocean]

it works with Grit u just get a free DD every encounter

[dense moss]

My original thought was that it would activate only on your last one. It activating on the first charge only feels weird.

[civic ocean]

also just casual healing through scars

[past salmon]

yeah it really shouldnt lol

[civic ocean]

it's wild

[past salmon]

Grit honestly is kinda silly

imo it should be nerfed or changed

[sour cape]

What mean work with Grit?

[past salmon]

I mean this is kinda fine
In a lot of ways pin is basically this games stubborn defiance
I think it needs some nerfs but I dont want it gutted

[civic ocean]

I mean if you die it sets you to 60 and when the clock runs out you take 15

[past salmon]

yeah its stupid lol

[sour cape]

Oh wtf? 😂

Thats pretty crazy

[civic ocean]

im trying to think what a good number for CG might be

30 maybe

[past salmon]

its why ive been trying to avoid taking grit on my high fear runs
it just feels really cheap atm with pin

[sour cape]

I wonder, can you parry the effect then?

[civic ocean]

its probably unblockable

[sour cape]

You can parry lots of stuff 👀

Like 500 dmg Chaos curse

[past salmon]

lol?
Thats funny

[civic ocean]

maybe you can then

[sour cape]

yea

[past salmon]

I can test rq

[civic ocean]

thats getting fixed probably anyways

[zenith bolt]

arent most hits below this anyway though

basically only holds weight for fear

[sour cape]

Nope, cant seem to parry it

[past salmon]

yeah you cant

I just tested it aswell lol

[civic ocean]

Gritters win again

At least I only do it on 2 32 builds

[wraith flame]

i love demeter i love demeter i love demeter i love demeter

[agile cliff]

I seem to be stuck with the 24 fear Torch testament, all the others were fairly easily managed in 1-3 tries but its my last testament overall before I go for my 32 fear runs for skelly. Any tips?

[civic ocean]

yeah other than like pick an aspect and get nasty with it try this just turn down the fear a bit https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/Resources/Aspect of Melinoe Flames - Incredible Balls

[agile cliff]

I'll try that! it seems nasty af

[past salmon]

PINK AURA

[civic ocean]

pink aura is living

[zenith bolt]

yellow aura (zeus special)

kinda funny and it does work

[civic ocean]

someone posted Green Aura and honestly I'

[zenith bolt]

green?

[civic ocean]

Yeah with Hera

[zenith bolt]

oh yeah i guess hera's stuff is kinda green

[civic ocean]

and that's honestly goated because you get born gain faster

[past salmon]

GREEN AURA
Hera is so fun

Hera and Zeus are probably my favourite gods for their overall boon list
I am hard coping Blitz is good guys trust me please trust me its rlly good trust

[zenith bolt]

im slowly turning around on blitz

i dont think i can be convinced of scorch though

[past salmon]

yeah scorch just
isnt good
Outside of maybe air fryer

another Zeus W he just cant lose

[tired fulcrum]

Funeral pyre bug >>> aq scorch

[past salmon]

I have no idea what the funeral pyre bug is

[sour cape]

Hmmm what bug?

With Hera?

[zenith bolt]

this i think? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1242277747909197935/Hades_II_2024-05-20_17-46-15.mp4?ex=665bc14f&is=665a6fcf&hm=4935ce68d8a5f8d42b0c0a516ffff4e96e6fe5525f76be7193e61d345d9f2fc3&

[sour cape]

Its just kinda terrible, had 2 runs getting Zeus/Hestia duo but no AQ

[tired fulcrum]

That one

[past salmon]

haha wtf is this lol

[sour cape]

tf?

[zenith bolt]

i want to try uhh mel torches with zeus special and romantic spark

[sour cape]

How does this even work?

[zenith bolt]

but i keep getting robbed by not getting romantic spark

[sour cape]

Shouldnt jt only do the crappy 40 dps?

[zenith bolt]

but its ok zeus special on mel torches is actually kinda banger

[past salmon]

Romantic spark feels like it should be good and then its just okay

[zenith bolt]

fire extinguisher i think

[sour cape]

ohh

[zenith bolt]

a bajillion scorch from whatever bug from funeral pyre + fire extinguisher

[sour cape]

Yea that makes sense but still outputting too much scorch it seems

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1243625043297304597/Hades_II_2024-05-24_10-58-35.mp4?ex=665c0ad3&is=665ab953&hm=7338bd3d5868e1da6a72025ea9183600ea6ec773b1ab691c1ee0e6cc075d3b83& you use swift runner and artemis daggers and you just hold attack and dash a lot then you get fire extinguisher

[zenith bolt]

im not sure the mechanism for the bug though, maybe its something specific to blades omega attack

ah so it's to do with how blades omega attack works with dashing and such

[tired fulcrum]

Its to do with toggling funeral on and off really fast or something. It somewhat works on other omegas but to a lesser degree

[zenith bolt]

since it like rechannels instantly or something

[sour cape]

Ohhh i see thats pretty cool

But in not gonna count this as scorch being good

[tired fulcrum]

Its also easier to do than aq scorch since you only need 4 boons lol

[zenith bolt]

it's funny how both of the interactions that make scorch good are presumably bugs

[tired fulcrum]

Surely they buff scorch

[past salmon]

Yeah AQ and Grit both currently affect things they most certainly shouldnt

[zenith bolt]

aq scorch is kinda up in the air though, bc i dont think there's anything necessarily working in an unintended way beyond AQ working on scorch ticks

[sour cape]

AQ I think is intended

[zenith bolt]

so it's just a question of "is AQ supposed to work on this many things"

[civic ocean]

It would be pretty funny if they went ahead and made thermal dynamics and nobody tested AQ+Scorch

[zenith bolt]

wym for grit?

[sour cape]

AQ does say minimum dmg is 30

[civic ocean]

Engraved Pin

[past salmon]

I mean grit works on moros pin

[zenith bolt]

ah

i have never once actually had engraved pin activate LOL

[tired fulcrum]

Wait really

[civic ocean]

They're just missing an "instant kill" flag in the code

[zenith bolt]

so it's basically a reverse mint condition then

where it activates at the end of your life instead of the start

[civic ocean]

There wasn't a "you die immediately" thing in Hades 1 right

[tired fulcrum]

You still lose the pin though right you just dont die

[past salmon]

its like
A death defiance for free in every room
But you also just get mint condition aswelll

[civic ocean]

Yeah the first time you die you get 10 seconds of invulnerability and then 45 hp

[zenith bolt]

nothing comes to mind but my memory of h1 is a little foggy

[past salmon]

I mean I personally dont think AQ should be changed at all
Like maybe it shouldnt work with a couple things

I do think Grit should be nerfed
Its just like rlly insane

[proven orbit]

I don't remember instakills either

[zenith bolt]

i think AQ is fine as-is yeah

[proven orbit]

Closest it gets is tight deadline damage which is not meant to be blocked, but isn't instant either

[sour cape]

Grit does take a lotta Earth

[zenith bolt]

i feel like CG can be nerfed by just making it req more earth

[civic ocean]

AQ should just stay the same and Scorch should just be like way way stronger

[past salmon]

not really
Like it just means you need Dem+Hera
or Dem+heph
Or Dem+Heph+Hera

[zenith bolt]

bc stuff like chaos and narcissus exist so getting 6 earth is actually not that hard

[past salmon]

6 earth is not very hard yeah

[zenith bolt]

and hera dem is already like really good even without CG

[tired fulcrum]

Just make grit a percent damage reduction, flat 15 is busted and just ignores heats once you get it

[past salmon]

the only reason I wouldnt want them to go this route is because this incentivises going hard for earth trio even more for high Fear

[zenith bolt]

i suppose

i wonder how hard of a nerf raising it to 25 would be

[sour cape]

it would be pretty feels bad at that point for low fear

[zenith bolt]

for no fear it's probably not that helpful then (mainly just chronos instakills and some cerb attacks)

[proven orbit]

sounds pointless in regular play because only chronos hits that hard with some attacks

[sour cape]

yea

[past salmon]

I think percentage is probably the way to go

[zenith bolt]

but then it's still really good in higher fear because it invalidates suffering etc

so maybe not a useful nerf

[sour cape]

yea could judt be like 50% dmg reduction

[zenith bolt]

50% DR seems fair

[civic ocean]

that actually

might be just straight up better? Aside from maybe Chronos specifically

[zenith bolt]

maybe

[proven orbit]

It's funny like that yeah

[zenith bolt]

if DR is additive then 50% is a big no bc strength LOL

even if it's mult i mean 50% with strength is a lot still

[proven orbit]

DR is multiplicative I believe

[sour cape]

100% here we go

[broken pier]

4 frikkin moon starts in a row

[past salmon]

depends on fear probably

[sour cape]

but prob multiplicative?

[proven orbit]

I don't know why dodge is additive but hey, I'm not complaining

[civic ocean]

The main value to me of Coarse Grit is it just lets me beat Chronos up while he channels the instakills which is like a big thing about it that should probably change

[zenith bolt]

like 75% DR with strength is still entirely countering suffering

[sour cape]

givign extra vslue to Hermes

[zenith bolt]

simply iframe instakills 👍 who needs CG

[past salmon]

god I hate moon starts
although I got a 45 moon start to chronos earlier today

[zenith bolt]

additive dodge is fine bc most dodge sources are small amounts anyway

[civic ocean]

I think that the instakills should instakill you

[sour cape]

50% dmg reduction would sitll make Chronos kill you

[civic ocean]

wild take I know

Like you shouldn't be able to iframe it or imperv it with Skull

[zenith bolt]

i think iframing it/using invuln is fine

[sour cape]

uhhh I think iframing is fair

its hard to do

[zenith bolt]

mainly bc iframing it is harder to do in the later stages of the fight where it's more chaotic and it's extremely risky

[tired fulcrum]

Its cooler if you dash iframe it tho

[proven orbit]

50% dr might be overall stronger than upper limit of 15, but that depends largely on how much the coarse grit is picked for specifically chronos

[zenith bolt]

and then for invuln the only really notable example is skull omega special which is like idk

[sour cape]

Also worse vs Suffering

[zenith bolt]

i guess there's total eclipse? but you deserve it for using a hex anyway idk

[proven orbit]

because 75% dr vs 999 hit is still dead, and vs like 60 damage is barely comparable

[past salmon]

also wolf howl yeah

[zenith bolt]

suffering is still capped to 15 iirc

[civic ocean]

Suffering is capped to 15 yes

[sour cape]

yea but 50% DR you prob taking more tjan 15

[proven orbit]

^

unless you were hit by like a spinner

[tired fulcrum]

50% dr is also still busted

[civic ocean]

I feel like thats fine because I don't think anyone takes Suffering II unless you are melvin shielding it

[proven orbit]

is damage from regular damage vow and suffering additive btw?

[zenith bolt]

it would still be 6 earth for it

[sour cape]

multiplicative I think

[proven orbit]

yuck

[zenith bolt]

suffering is multiplicative

[past salmon]

Yeah I was gonna bring up trusty shield actually

[sour cape]

it deals a ton 💀💀

[zenith bolt]

trusty shield is weird because it's not broken outside of specifically armor gating interactions

[past salmon]

its also just
an objectively better winter cloak
Which is weird

[zenith bolt]

it's literally just that it no-sells suffering and doomed

[tired fulcrum]

Its not like the 6 earth boons are doing nothing for you

[sour cape]

At 6 earth it'd be fine, it adds no dmg sooo purely defensive infusions should be strong

[zenith bolt]

i mean you could make it 8 earth and it'd still be good /shrug

[proven orbit]

The damage comes from being allowed to unga bunga in boss' face tbf

[past salmon]

imo purely defensive infusions shouldnt be strong

[zenith bolt]

i just dont want every defensive infusion to be self healing

[sour cape]

hmmm why not?

[zenith bolt]

bc self healing is like bottom 1 infusion LOL

[past salmon]

because defensive play is cringe and unga bunga hit hard play is based

if you arent picking damage upgrades every time in every game you play you are playing games wrong 💯

[zenith bolt]

i think defensive play is fine because it's just another avenue to take toward winning

[sour cape]

I suppose that is a take

[zenith bolt]

nerfing defensive options because you want everyone to play a certain way is. an opinion to have

not that i dont think CG is busted or anything, but like

[past salmon]

I mean im half joking but I dont think defensive boons should be so strong
Like it really makes it hard to ever consider playing high fear without just going hard into earth trio atm

[sour cape]

Defensive play should be good since often killing enemies before they can do things saves a looot of dmg

[zenith bolt]

it has more to do with how strong armor gating and CG are i think

heph without armor gating is not all that

[proven orbit]

What's wrong with it actually?- oh wait, the vow of scars, isn't it?

[sour cape]

I do not have fun playing damage meta games where best strat is kill them before they kill you

or do enough dmg to ignore all their mechanics

[zenith bolt]

vow of scars but also just it only is helpful if you're in the range of like getting hit sometimes but not often enough where you'd overwrite one instance of self healing with another

also like half of apollo's good stuff is air anyway so like

[proven orbit]

That's how I usually play tbf

[civic ocean]

It has more to do with Demeter giving you an insanely strong set of early control options that also unlocks the "I do 50% more with everything" Arcana, ALSO giving you MORE defense, and the other earth gods like also solving all of your other problems

[sour cape]

Yea self healing infusions really bad

[zenith bolt]

fire gods are so dysfunctional because apollo and hestia have like ??? synergy

[sour cape]

Speaking of that duo needs a buff

[past salmon]

I dont even remember what apollo hestia duo is

[sour cape]

it is so terrible 😂

-100 hp but you regen hp if you afk for 3s

[civic ocean]

They have some synergy but you have to look for it and the weapon for it isn't in the game yet

[proven orbit]

Tbf the only duos I remember are money laundering and apocalypse cast

[zenith bolt]

not to mention part of why earth is so strong is because artemis and hermes give earth, which subtly makes getting AQ/CG much easier

[past salmon]

omg yeah its utter garbage lmao 😭

[zenith bolt]

it also has 3 requirements, a trait only shared in duos by golden rule

[past salmon]

is water the only element herms doesnt give or am I forgetting something

[zenith bolt]

yes, though hermes only has 1 fire boon

[civic ocean]

If a weapon with a similar attack to the Rail is released then Apollo Hestia can go crazy

[proven orbit]

tranquil gain looking ahhh

[past salmon]

that fire boon is rlly good tho

[sour cape]

The only time I was able to take it

Was when I had 101 hp so I didnt

[zenith bolt]

and like comparatively, golden rule deserves to be 3 reqs

[proven orbit]

46 fear meme clear abusing phoenix skin

[sour cape]

Yea Apollo/Hestia duo is too terrible

[civic ocean]

Extra Dose Slow Cooker sounds crazy on a spammable attack tbh

[zenith bolt]

meanwhile earth god duos are spiteful strength, cherished heirloom, and the uhh freeze/heph blast one?? that one isnt real
water has island getaway and whatever the demeter/pos and demeter/aphro ones are

[sour cape]

Like I dont get it, Aphros boon is just way better for healing since you arent missing 100 hp

[zenith bolt]

air has glorious disaster like 😭 fire is so ass

[sour cape]

Fire got nothing going for it 😭

[civic ocean]

Thermal's good given the context, extra blasts is hmmge if you get global dmg%

[zenith bolt]

chain reaction would be good if heph attacks were good

[civic ocean]

We're not just counting the duos that the fire gods have access to with anyone right

[past salmon]

I am the number 1 Heph hater

[zenith bolt]

im mostly just counting duos each element gods have with each other

[civic ocean]

I like fire because of how hard it makes you work for the synergies

[sour cape]

Heph is good!

[zenith bolt]

heph is good, heph's attacks are... underwhelming

[sour cape]

yea

[glacial pike]

does aspect of melenoe on axe make the omega attack faster?

[sour cape]

Not to mention Hera/Heph encourages you to have no attacks

[civic ocean]

Like Slow Cooker is right there as this like kinda rewarding infusion for going big into attacks, but then both Strikes and Flourishes for Fire don't interact with it at all

[proven orbit]

heph's attacks are meant to be a support role, but then the t2 boons further proves that instead of making heph main viable (vent resetting on another blast effect)

[zenith bolt]

meanwhile earth sitting here with like 2nd best attack/special in the game, best support cast in the game, best defensive utility in the game, etc.

[sour cape]

Or best counting Hera/Heph duo?

[civic ocean]

I don't really like Earth for dmg tbh,

[sour cape]

200% 👀👀

[zenith bolt]

i mean fair enough but its not like earth is completely devoid of means to get damage

[civic ocean]

Hera is okay for dmg and heph on the offhand is good enough too though

[sour cape]

Hitch is not bad

[civic ocean]

It's not like asking fire to prevent you from dying

[plain fossil]

Poor fire defenses lul

[zenith bolt]

ig im just praying on scorch rework

[past salmon]

hitch is great

[civic ocean]

Fire gets Dazed which is like a pretty decent way to not die

[stiff pecan]

anyone know what's wrong with Marauder Slice for the Sister Blades, i can't get it in ~20 runs, was it removed from the game in last patch or what

[sour cape]

Spiteful Strength is high dmg but very sketchy getting to that point

[plain fossil]

I dont think scorch needs a rework i just think hestia cast and attack are asscrack

[zenith bolt]

you can't get marauder slice if you have any hammer that affects omega attack (and weed killer)

[sour cape]

Scorch just needs a buff

[plain fossil]

If those do like twice as much scorch but the dps stays the same id click them

[sour cape]

like just make it similar to Hangover from H1

[zenith bolt]

beyond that, You're Just Unlucky™️

[sour cape]

is Marauder slice the 400% dmg one?

[zenith bolt]

marauder slice is +attack speed but you can't omega attack

[sour cape]

ohh

[proven orbit]

You also can't get it on artemis blades altogether iirc

[zenith bolt]

yeah that too

[sour cape]

Maybe scorch dps could scale off of how much scorch you stack

[zenith bolt]

scorch dps should just be current scorch/2, minimum of 40 dps

[sour cape]

and then inc how much scorch is applied by the attack/special

Yea

[stiff pecan]

kk thanks

[zenith bolt]

that way you're rewarded with more dps for applying more scorch

and it also then has some soft-cap of scorch dps on whatever equilibrium you settle at

[sour cape]

yea that would be a good change

[civic ocean]

I think the fire trio is just missing something with a really spammable Attack

[sour cape]

Although kills the AQ synergy

[proven orbit]

Doesn't that make fire extinguisher obsolete too?

[zenith bolt]

then rework fire extinguisher or buff it

[civic ocean]

It's a pretty fundamental change to how like everything about scorch works

[zenith bolt]

it's weird enough as-is given it has like negative synergy with hestia legendary anyway

[civic ocean]

Like how would the legendary change it, etc

[sour cape]

Scorch doing 60 or 80 dps base would prob be good enough

[zenith bolt]

with this i would just change hestia legendary to

The amount of Scorch you apply is doubled.
or something like that

[civic ocean]

80 dps base on scorch would be absurd

[plain fossil]

I dont even want that change

The bigger problem with scorch is that the attack and special are just bad

Changing scorch dps does nothing to fix that

[civic ocean]

Just make the strikes start at 25 and the flourishes start at 30 and change the legendary to what PJ just said and Scorch is like completely fine?

[sour cape]

Yea attack/special should be 30/25 base

[plain fossil]

I would click scorch flourish but not scorch attack with those numbers

I agree thats the correct direction tho i dont rly think we need some exponential function to calc scorch dps changes over time

[proven orbit]

80 dps base is hestia legendary basically
go figure

[civic ocean]

atm yeah but I would take 25 strike on a weapon that had a spammable low base damage attack

[proven orbit]

how much does poseidon start at?

[plain fossil]

20

[civic ocean]

Presuming that by the time such a thing is released, Poseidon is nerfed

[sour cape]

Poseido. attack is 15

which is opposite of Hestia

[civic ocean]

yeah poseidon is 15 20

Hestia is 20 15

[sour cape]

But Hestia should be higher than Poseidon

[plain fossil]

I would actually like blitz to be reworked ngl

[proven orbit]

I agree with that

Although probably not by that much

[civic ocean]

IIRC Hestia is the only god in the game where the Flourish is worse than the strike?

[sour cape]

yea bout 5 or 10 should do

[civic ocean]

Honestly that is probably a mistake

[plain fossil]

Right now its a % boon in disguise which means fast hitting builds like pan have 2 choices and a bunch of memes for main boon

[sour cape]

yea Hestia flourish worse than strike

[proven orbit]

(especially if poseidon nerf is indeed on the horizon, which tbf I have no clue if it would actually happen, flat damage will always be stupid strong to be usable)

[civic ocean]

Poseidon just needs an ICD

[plain fossil]

If zeus worked like h1 then u would have 3 choices instead of 2

[sour cape]

Zeus Chain Lightning is not bad

[plain fossil]

Oh no i dont want that i like that flat damage exists and theres options for the fast hitting weapons even if hestia strike/special are undertuned

[sour cape]

yea ICD would be too punishing for Pan

[zenith bolt]

i think momus and pan are probably more worth looking at than pos rn

[sour cape]

like you throw 1 flurry and get 1 proc is giga bad

[proven orbit]

zeus special on chiron in h1 was so unfun because of that

[zenith bolt]

not that pos doesn't probably deserve a nerf somewhere but i dont think nerfing pos changes anything fundamental about these two

[civic ocean]

You can still have it be an option but it shouldn't be able to take the Staff Attack and add comparable DPS to an aph boon

[plain fossil]

Normie staff attack is what

[proven orbit]

to be entirely fair staff attack hits like wet noodles at base

[zenith bolt]

25 damage or something

[plain fossil]

Like 25 35 40? I forget

[sour cape]

Well its more dmg than Aph boon for non Momus staff

[zenith bolt]

i want to say it's 20 25 40

[plain fossil]

Its a combo with escalating numbers i just dont remember

[proven orbit]

Oh, I was thinking of special, my bad

attack is probably 20 25 35 or so

[plain fossil]

Someone can test im on phone

[sour cape]

probably 20?

[plain fossil]

Anyway at those numbers i got no problem with flat outperforming %

[sour cape]

staff special is 10

Or 40 for Momus

[civic ocean]

Anyways, having played with it now like quite a bit at 32 I think the only thing really weak about Scorch is that it requires a lot of investment? I think it's honestly super slept on atm though

[proven orbit]

Staff is 20-25-30 from testing

with 30 for dash strikes

[zenith bolt]

20 25 30, dash attack is 30

[civic ocean]

The value of being able to do damage while you do nothing is very important I feel

[plain fossil]

Poseidon probably does need a nerf tho not because of damage but because it also gives coverage and knocks off shields

[sour cape]

But not when you doing less dmg than either a % boon for high dmg attacks or Poseidon for flat

[tired fulcrum]

i hate how if you dash during staff combo you just end up doing infinite standing attack 1 instead of dashstrikes

[plain fossil]

I mean i got no issues with scorch atm except it makes u click a bunch of gods that make u faceplant

[proven orbit]

Honestly I'm unsure what you can even invest in to increase its damage

[plain fossil]

And that hestia attack and special suck nuts

[proven orbit]

Hestia legendary improves time to kill but not how much damage you apply
Same for extinguisher

[plain fossil]

Scorch as a concept is fine imo

[civic ocean]

yeah I mean flat damage is one thing but if ur wave hits like 3 dudes you're dealing like 45+ flat damage with one move which is hilarious

[sour cape]

Theres no getting around Hestia attack and special being terrible

[civic ocean]

The investment isn't linear into the same god, which I like

[past salmon]

I think the problem is that literally everything else is just better 💀
apart from like heph attacks those are doo doo

[civic ocean]

I think better at what is important right

[plain fossil]

Ye pretty much like the aoe option shouldnt hit that hard basically, apollo doesnt so poseidon shouldnt

[zenith bolt]

heph attacks are weird because with good pom investment they're not the worst thing in the world

[sour cape]

How do dmg increases even work for Scorch?

[past salmon]

yeah but even when you max them out they are just like
no longer horrible
rather than amazing

[zenith bolt]

if they made vent not _uck you over for taking more investment into heph, that'd be just awesome

[sour cape]

Just makes it tick more or?

[tired fulcrum]

They apply to the internal ticks but dont affect stack consumption or application

[civic ocean]

hephs stuff is good on the hand you're not using

[sour cape]

Ah ok thats good then

[civic ocean]

esp if you're not using special much

[zenith bolt]

lets say you have 200 damage blast and 400 damage vent
5s timer (vent activates): 600 damage / 5 seconds = 120 dps
4s timer (vent doesn't activate) 200 damage / 4 seconds = 50 dps

[proven orbit]

Heph pom dps scaling is exponential which is goofy ahh

[sour cape]

Steam is pretty fun tbf

Hestia/Poseidon value

[plain fossil]

Ye ur allowed to click heph attack special if ur not using the move much otherwise, i usually struggle to justify the hephboon slot tho

[zenith bolt]

like if vent just did its blast if it got re-applied it would be fine

[sour cape]

Vent kinda sad 😭

[zenith bolt]

bc then at max (2s cd) it'd be 600 damage / 2 seconds = 300 dps which is quite respectable

[civic ocean]

I was super interested in Amir being wary of Heph day 1 I think it's super interesting

lmao nice sentence

[zenith bolt]

current vent just incentivizes you to like, run away for 5s, tap enemy once, run away again

[civic ocean]

I conceptualize heph as having pretty bad core boons if you invest in them but very good everything else

[agile cliff]

Tried this, took me a few runs to understand. Born gain is incredibly silly. Will beat him with this tommorrow, thanks again

[zenith bolt]

same

i just dont like gods intentionally having bad parts of their boon pool

[civic ocean]

I like that though I want that to stay the same, combos and synergies and understanding how the gods work beyond just pick god get their boons 6-7 times and win that way, I like that because of the god pool changes

[sour cape]

Hephs stuff is nice if otherwise would never use attack/special

[civic ocean]

like if wep 6 has a spammable Attack you know im gonna be slow cooker extra dosing that thing with scorch and vent for Origination

[sour cape]

work in a big burst of dmg not bad

[zenith bolt]

i just want chain reaction to be good

ding dong build funny

[agile cliff]

I think if Blast had more ways to damage boost Heph would feel better. Global damage is pretty sparse

[zenith bolt]

golden rule hephaestus.... the vision...

y'know whenever they make golden rule actually a % instead of being flat damage

because it says % on the thing

[sour cape]

Would be more reasonablr

[civic ocean]

You can go Heph Aph Demeter tbh

[zenith bolt]

does martial art affect heph blasts at all

[civic ocean]

Hearty Appetite Uncanny Fortitude probably goes nuts

[tired fulcrum]

Thatd be pretty weird but many things are pretty weird

[zenith bolt]

i just want the heph thing to affect the heph thing

[civic ocean]

I'm looking at Martial Art Slow Cooker Moros atm

[sour cape]

I just want Ionic Gain to not be terrible 😭

[zenith bolt]

you mean you dont love having 0/0 magick all the time?

[sour cape]

idk how to really fix it though without just making it a better Hestia gain

[proven orbit]

reject modernity, return to fresh file clears

[zenith bolt]

just make it also reduce priming by %, there, fixed

[sour cape]

since like if the mana doesnt prevent you from casting its kinda just better Hestia

[zenith bolt]

the whole reason why it's a brick on like any notable amount of fear is that vow of arrogance makes it set you to 0/0 magick

[sour cape]

yea

[civic ocean]

wait maybe moros is a spammable attack

[sour cape]

that prob is fine

[proven orbit]

aren't only born and fixed gains replenishing during channeling?

[zenith bolt]

fluid gain

[sour cape]

since you still gottta make sure keep enough mana to use your attack

[proven orbit]

and fluid yeah

[civic ocean]

no you play panic

[zenith bolt]

tbh i dont really take panic that much bc it's just 1 fear and i like being able to rock through early rooms even without magick regen

[civic ocean]

you play panic and you go slow cooker martial art heph blasts with the duo and vent and poms

triple fire

[zenith bolt]

apollo is there for emotional support i guess

[civic ocean]

extra dose

and daze for orig

[proven orbit]

extra dose on vanilla attack 😋

[zenith bolt]

new idea: heph attack/special benefit from attack/special %

[civic ocean]

what does the vanilla torch attack do

[sour cape]

Panic honestly feels pretty bad if need mana unless Born Again

[proven orbit]

15 damage

50 when channeled

[zenith bolt]

its like 50 on omega but otherwise super soaker damage

it staggers unlike torch special

ghosts go out in a straight line and pierce enemies

they slowly decelerate before disappearing

on moros i think they have collision with each other?

on eos you can dash to pull them in and they slowly grow and deal more damage over their lifetime

[civic ocean]

15 base damage hmmmmmge

[proven orbit]

If it were up to me:
Regular attack 15 to 20
Omega attack 50 to 40
Attacks to reach omega 6 to 4

[civic ocean]

that's honestly a lot for how spammable it can be

[tired fulcrum]

It fires like half as fast as rail did tho

[zenith bolt]

i believe enemies that sit on top of a leftover torch attack take damage repeatedly?

[proven orbit]

I mean its basically staff special with piercing and non-special boon

[tired fulcrum]

Lightning conductor moros real tho trust

[proven orbit]

Not that Im aware of, no

[zenith bolt]

maybe im tripping

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah dont think that happens

[civic ocean]

how much do the moros explosions deal

[zenith bolt]

not sure, i've never used it to any serious extent

[proven orbit]

give me a moment to check

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1164101586138710037/1243788843455479818/Hades_II_2024-05-24_21-46-58.mp4?ex=665bfaa0&is=665aa920&hm=494afca9bc6207e88813068e2088885dbb92040b40b6f0b92e4845e19c96a7f5& blast damage not real tho

[zenith bolt]

no gain waow

[plain fossil]

ZERO MANA EOS

[civic ocean]

how much does it explode for, I hate that I'm saved in the house

[proven orbit]

30 small one, 100 big one, both affected by 1.6x from aspect upgrades

[civic ocean]

% or power

[proven orbit]

I think it's basically 2x base damage for blasts, 3.2x when fully upgrades

[zenith bolt]

i believe the aspect gives +% to the blast damage

[proven orbit]

uhhh

[civic ocean]

wait is it actually 2x base damage

[zenith bolt]

so not sure if it's affected multiplicatively or not TBH

[proven orbit]

with huntress active it's 210 on big blast

[zenith bolt]

meaty

[civic ocean]

So you're telling me that if I go slow cooker huntress these things are dealing like 300-400 a special pop

[proven orbit]

So the bonus from aspect is additive but blast itself is base

[tired fulcrum]

Imagine they make moros ghosts stick to enemies instead of either bouncing off each other or flying into the corner of the room

[civic ocean]

sounds like you could get real sick with that

[proven orbit]

The small ones already stick to each other, but big bois push them around

[civic ocean]

Yeah that sounds good tbh with volcanic flourish to help detonate

[tired fulcrum]

I want them to stick to enemies not body block each other

Better with zeus flourish

[civic ocean]

more base power with volc and vent too hmmmmmge

[proven orbit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/793513270912745541/1246376650476879923/image.png?ex=665c2a36&is=665ad8b6&hm=098f9bcf6aa9c2c80fd720fc1f66b189d083ba335bdc4a01b597c773807dacb9& intensive clown noises

[civic ocean]

yeah sounds like a huntress panic angle

wait does extra dose give me % chance of them being hit by the bomb twice

dang Moros sounds sick

[proven orbit]

My research with aphro attack + zeus special only concluded that aphro is kinda yikes for moros

zeus special carries hard

[civic ocean]

Moros triple fire sounds legit

[tired fulcrum]

Lightning conductor >>>

[civic ocean]

would need practice but there's probably a flow with dash and attack and special that like puts 3 ghosts out and then kabooms them

don't think I will be getting to that this coming month tho, it's volume challenge time

[tired fulcrum]

Its nice in tiny erebus rooms, less cool when rooms are big and your ghosts go idk where and also your specials can sometimes get in the way and instadetonate your attacks while youre tryna hit something further away. Funny aspect

[civic ocean]

I think that would be a sick nasty build, panic torches

[plain fossil]

Ye its so awful unless theres walls

[zenith bolt]

LOL https://i.imgur.com/yVk4w9x.png

[plain fossil]

How did u take 50 from traps lmao

[tall notch]

Hard labour got added in a hotfix this morning

Or wait no

Heightened security

[zenith bolt]

im somewhat good at dodging things but somewhat bad at spatial awareness

[tall notch]

Let's just say you took the traps on purpose to trigger antler and strength

[zenith bolt]

so true

all part of the plan

[sly turret]

What's the best attack on Medea for 32 fear?

[zenith bolt]

high fear i would run probably hera and just aim for triple earth

[bleak night]

Steam bath

[proven orbit]

Tartarus spike traps get me everytime because they look more peaceful

[bleak night]

Ah, the spike traps you step on

[zenith bolt]

medea kinda Stinky bc you have to be inside everything you fight so it's really easy to get hit a lot

[bleak night]

Yeah, it's a rough weapon. It's kind of melee taken to the extreme

[zenith bolt]

alternatively if you're slightly better at the game, aphro attack zeus special

[sly turret]

Triple earth?

[zenith bolt]

and just use healthy rebound to cover the difference in damage you take i suppose

[zenith bolt]

shorthand to refer to hera + demeter + hephaestus. it's a strong core that gets a lot of defensive utility, most notable of which being demeter's infusion, coarse grit

[sly turret]

Ah okay

[bleak night]

It's a fun core, yeah.

[tall notch]

Weapon
Agnostic
Boon
Stacking

[plain fossil]

Bro if i sat in the bath that long id turn into a prune

[bleak night]

Mel is built different

[plain fossil]

All those bath salts just practice for PJ's all traps run

[zenith bolt]

facetank run taken to the extreme

take damage from everything

[zenith bolt]

oh that's what WABS means

[past salmon]

hera
Zeus is good on special

or just yeah like triple earth

[bleak night]

Dem is decent on Special as well, yeah

[past salmon]

yeah dem does work

im going to commit murder against a robot

Do the boulders in mourning fields just have an active hitbox at all times?
Does anyone know

[plain fossil]

Yes, dont walk into them oh wait

[cursive ruin]

Certainly feels that way.. you can dash through them consistently enough tho

[plain fossil]

I think they dont have an active hitbox in their stun animation?

Not 100% sure i try not to stand in them

[past salmon]

yeah they are enemy #2 on my enemies murder me during medea runs

[cursive ruin]

Yeah not during hitstun

[plain fossil]

Ye its funny bc they do literally nothing to anyone else

[tender anvil]

They are kinda annoying to Artemis as well

[cursive ruin]

I wish the skulls omega attack wasnt so slow.. that one hammer that makes it shoot forward makes it feel so much better

But even still.. no aspect really uses skull omega attack

[past salmon]

I mean yeah the only time omega attack gets use on skulls is like
the hammer that just does it 💀

ok well I just got triple earth in erebus ummm hmmmm
I cant wait to see how I manage to throw this one
also got trusty shield and coarse grit already although coarse grit isnt active yet

[cursive ruin]

Coarse grit requires 6 right?

[merry flint]

ye

[bleak night]

luckily it's also the most common element in the game along with Air

[sly turret]

Does demeter's winter coat absorb the vow that makes you take more damage on first hit in each encounter?

[wise knot]

I just found out that Charon aspect of Axe is utterly broken with Apollo+Demeter duo which increases damage of omega cast and its cost for each use.

Charon's special detonating cast circle also trigger damage boost of this boon while the increased cost is only added to omega casting!

[bleak night]

It doesn't, no.

[bleak night]

It's pretty great, yeah. This + Apollo-Zeus duo

[tender anvil]

Charon is also a triple earth weapon, change my mind

[split igloo]

What else should I spend my nightmare on other than momus and artemis?

[bleak night]

There's a public save file in the Speedrun Discord with everything maxed out if you wanna see what the bonuses for everything are at the final level. But, otherwise, I suggest Pan Blades, Thanatos Axe or Charon Axe. Pan because it's genuinely considered the 2nd best weapon after Momus, and the two Axes because they're really good and play different from each other

Than Axe is a hybrid playstyle that plays around your crit rate, Charon is a full-send artillery Axe, unlike the base Aspect

[wise knot]

Be warned, though. Hammer upgrades on Thanatos' aspect currently disrupt omega attack critical acquisition. Try to avoid the upgrade that sends omega attack forward and the one that allow you to perform action during omega attack

[bleak night]

That's true, yeah

[past salmon]

The answer was oceanus being oceanus

[merry flint]

if i had a nickel everytime someone posted this in #h2-feedback i'd be able to buy breakfast lunch dinner for 3 days in my country

more if im willing to cheap out a bit

[tall notch]

In my unbiased opinion, Eos flames

[merry flint]

momus artemis eos charon medea

[past salmon]

Medea in my completely unbiased opinion

[tall notch]

Medea's #1 Fan, is this you?!

[hybrid spire]

What boon would be your first pick to take with staff's aspect of Momos?