h2-builds-and-combat

[plain fossil]

Yea just looking at the map again "narrow alley" on the right hand side is both my most and least favourite zone

[sour cape]

useful for if they both have boons though

[plain fossil]

Its got 3 potential small rooms and u can clear it quickly with damage, but its really cramped and u can take a ton of damage if u dont hit the pylon quickly

I should update that map with potential small rooms too, not useful for speedrunners but id like to know

[hasty crown]

what makes the eos aspect good?

[plain fossil]

Like i know stables is 1, miniboss is 0 and small alley is 3. I also wonder if the open rate of doors is dependent on the room

[hasty crown]

I feel like the melinoe aspect is way better for spamming the orbs

[plain fossil]

Uh it does a lot of damage and u can dps on the move

[hasty crown]

when are you sprinting? I feel like then i dont omega attack anymore

[violet temple]

for thanatos should I be using hera keepsake to guarantee born gain or is there something better

[feral sage]

does anyone actually find medea aspect not awkward to use

i might need to play with it more to give it a chance but i'm not a fan

[plain fossil]

U can dash while holding attack

[violet temple]

and it'll explode

[plain fossil]

Try to dash backwards/forwards as much as u can

[violet temple]

the only thing that kinda sucks is no iframes on special but getting used to the pattern is easy

[bleak night]

I suggest speedrunning videos to get a better feel of how they're played optimally. I do find them weird myself, the gameplay loop is just too punishing in my mind is all

[tired fulcrum]

I have fun with medea until i run into the water serpents or the funny boulders

[plain fossil]

I always feel like playing medea im 3 inches from faceplanting at all times

[feral sage]

it is likely that yeah @ gameplay loop, especially with how up close it feels like it has to play + retrieving shells in general being risky sometimes

i'll look at those vids though

[bleak night]

Croven has really good speedruns like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRZHhLjPhns&pp=ygUMY3JvdmVuIG1lZGVh

[plain fossil]

Yea this is like if i try and do this im going to mess up an iframe and take 70 lul

[civic ocean]

yeah but then you get sick with it like Croven and then you don't

[plain fossil]

Im not sure this is something i could do even with a lot more hours in the game

On some level im a grumpy old man probably quite a bit older than the average hades 2 player i would think, certainly my twitch reflexes werent what they were playing tekken tag tournament 25 years ago lul

Always room to improve tho

Certainly something all the skull people say that makes a ton of sense that i didnt really GET get is how much better ur life is if u dont click blue shields

[zenith bolt]

barriers on staff 😇
barriers on skull

[plain fossil]

Barriers on axe 💀 💀 💀

There should be a big chop chaos trial with every mob has 40% speed and 2 barriers

Trial of running in circles

[civic ocean]

strong dislike for barriers in general

[proven orbit]

aspect of sisyphus

don't forget that one special benefit H1 mobs had that can make barriers on others

[magic moss]

the flags of chronos can also give barriers

[zenith bolt]

barrier skulls 👍

[civic ocean]

the flags im down with because if the flags are up chronos spawns less enemies

[plain fossil]

I tend to enjoy weapons/aspects that ignore barriers so i tend to click them more

Torches, non omega staff, charon etc

[proven orbit]

aspect of putting demeter support cast boon on everything

[low bear]

How does fetching array interact with the one that does your omega attack when you pick up the skull?

[proven orbit]

sprint could also work ig but renewing it is kind of annoying

[proven orbit]

What was fetching array again, -1 skull but autopickup?

[low bear]

Yep

[proven orbit]

I would assume it will be firing at your location in a short time

[low bear]

Ah so there's still a delay

[proven orbit]

Haven't personally tried yet

Roughly 1s ye

[plain fossil]

Yea theres a delay

What happens is u fire it, it floats up 17 miles into the air, it lands, then zips back to u and makes an explosion

Hope that helps

[proven orbit]

Oh yeah omega one increases delay, mb

[low bear]

I see I see thanks!

[echo furnace]

Omg it’s crab bar

[golden raft]

Everyone I need to know, is mass blitz with Zeus/Dem a good idea?

[golden raft]

Also do you get the 200% blitz damage on all enemies or just the one you sprint into with the Aphro/Zeus boon?

[plain fossil]

I quite like apocalyptic storm but it is very narrow and u dont have much opportunity to click it

[zenith bolt]

i dont know if anyone's tested apocalyptic storm + romantic spark

[plain fossil]

It makes room clear smoother tho

[zenith bolt]

romantic spark isn't the worst thing in the world though, so maybe it's worth taking a look at

[plain fossil]

Oh i dont know, i assumed no but i never tested

[golden raft]

Ok

Also

Is omega attack on skull the best AOE for that type of build

[zenith bolt]

mel torches omega special with zeus, sprint into enemies romantic spark build?

sounds kinda silly, i want to try that now

[golden raft]

Yea

I want to do it with omega attack skull like I said before

[plain fossil]

Regular special probably has better coverage on torches if u just want to hit things once

Plus, u know, zero mana best mana for everything lul

[zenith bolt]

omega attack sticks around so you could apply blitz multiple times without having to click more buttons -> more sprinting for romantic spark

that's my thought process, anyway. regular special is probably fine too

[plain fossil]

Any reason why? Attack blitz is lower than special blitz and i would have thought the coverage/aoe on skull attack would be less than other options such as skull special

[plain fossil]

Yea thats true for bosses i can see it

[golden raft]

Good point

[zenith bolt]

highroll for this idea probably includes king's ransom for insane zeus special/toasting fork levels

[golden raft]

Regular special would be fine if you throw it out a few times then run around

Why toasting

Your running romantic spark

[plain fossil]

Its a direct dps multi to blitz, toasting fork damage multi applies even when u actually trigger it apparently

[zenith bolt]

iirc toasting fork works with romantic spark for some reason

[plain fossil]

Yea ive been told that

[vapid grove]

i'm at location 39 i have that chaos boon that says 120secs for 2 encounters or get hit by a truck, can i take it?

[plain fossil]

Few things here to test/make sure of

[zenith bolt]

unananas had some romantic spark video here a few days ago i think

yesterday actually

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1243033120995807273/Hades_II_2024-05-22_19-47-39.mp4?ex=665a8c4e&is=66593ace&hm=27beb21a434128c6b6037614d07f51ea4e287d15a1d7977fee17283e4c15fcb4& clearly there's some merit to the idea

[plain fossil]

Maybe he knows

@tired fulcrum hey my pineapple brother i hear ur the romantic spark expert. do u know if it works with the demeter zeus duo

[golden raft]

Thats dumb blitz procs twice

[tired fulcrum]

Dunno

[golden raft]

Very good too know

[bleak night]

why is Blitz doing 1200

[zenith bolt]

blitz * 3 from romantic spark * whatever from toasting fork i think

[plain fossil]

Thats toasting fork doing its thing right

[tired fulcrum]

Romantic spark is multiplicative 2x + toasting fork

[golden raft]

Oh

That's whats happening

[tired fulcrum]

I think i have furies there plus origination so its a bit more than +200%

[bleak night]

interesting

[zenith bolt]

i assume it works with apocalyptic storm but it's something to test

not the worst build to get going bc you have aphro you can start with

[plain fossil]

Idk if the toasting fork interaction is intended fwiw it seems to be a lil inconsistent with the wording

[zenith bolt]

let blitz have 1 thing

zeus needs it this game

[plain fossil]

Hey man im not saying f10 it im just sayin it might get patched

[zenith bolt]

i think it's fine bc it's a decent bit of investment and for like 4 boons you can get stuff like king tide

[golden raft]

Well blitz is ending early right

[zenith bolt]

ive been screwed over by not getting specific duos so many times that i feel like it's balanced bc it requires a duo

[plain fossil]

I like blitz a bit more than other ppl here anyway so im not gonna argue to remove neat interactions

[golden raft]

And toasting is seeing romantic as the blitz not triggering because damage is not triggering it

[zenith bolt]

regardless there are duos with far more power anyway (golden rule, glorious disaster, and torrential downpour come to mind)

[golden raft]

But according to that logic toasting will multiply apocalyptic as well

[plain fossil]

Oh possibly that would be neat

Go test it and report back! Im curious

[golden raft]

Can't right now but will try tomorrow

[zenith bolt]

kinda negative synergy bc apocalyptic increases the timer for blitz

[plain fossil]

I believe their logic is that if the aph duo clearing blitz without damage procs toasting fork, then maybe apocalyptic storm clearing blitz on other units without damage also procs toasting fork

[golden raft]

Yes that is it

[zenith bolt]

ahhh

depends on how apocalyptic storm works i guess

[upbeat plover]

Recommended builds for first clear? Prefer using staff

[merry flint]

if you have momus unlocked and can upgrade it you can just use poseidon special spam

[upbeat plover]

What is a momu

[merry flint]

Staff Aspect of Momus

if you don't have aspect of momus, generally a ranged build is preferred

[glacial pike]

He hasnt unlocked aspects at the start of the game

[upbeat plover]

I don't even have all the weapons

[merry flint]

i did ask

[plain fossil]

Im not sure what the easiest first chronos kill is, i wonder if its still just mel aspect special spam with poseidon special

[glacial pike]

You can also go with zeus cast build

[merry flint]

i dunno just about anything ranged works

I did it with base axe apollo omega special

[plain fossil]

Unfortunately u cant turn off weapon upgrades or i might test it

[low bear]

Man Artemis feels so much better without time slowdown

[agile cliff]

Aphrodite/poseidon anything tends to be super helpful early on, Extra health+double up can make pretty much anything work by hitting chronos with 500 max hp

[merry flint]

which god do you get on beating chronos btw?

hera?

[plain fossil]

Hera is first surface run im p sure

[upbeat plover]

The farthest I got was with orbiting orbs of water build with steam

[agile cliff]

Hera is surface, yeah. No god from chronos clear, tho you do unlock fear

[merry flint]

thanks

apollo isn't a bad choice either

big AoE spam helps a lot and his gain boon is pretty safe

if slow

[proven orbit]

I think nuke cast is the easiest first chronos kill because it has burst (less time spent attacking) and you don't have to engage with chronos while at distance, obviously

Depending on whether you can unlock aspects before chronos kill, you could go mel staff to capitalize on that

Speaking of which, I'm really tempted to try poseidon cast with torrential duo to keep scaling its damage, but I'm so far away on arcana upgrades like omega cast power

And of course that also means a backup plan for mobbing is needed

Does poseidon cast boon stack with omega cast damage or replace it?

[glacial pike]

Just tested out apollo/zeus duo and i have to say its broken

[tired turret]

Have yall tried out aphro mel skull?

[zenith bolt]

afaik pos cast basically doesn't scale with anything so it kiiinda sucks

last i heard, it was only affected by global damage %

[proper viper]

My first clear haha

[tired turret]

it love it with bolstered array and island getaway

then toss in some demeter and hera for clear and cc, and done

[wise nest]

Yeah, it goes brr

It's especially nice with the +2 shell hammer since that bumps the base power up even more on top of giving you more shots

[tired turret]

bolstered array

[proven orbit]

I was mostly thinking of it for instant cast so that I could pop more casts faster, but if it doesn't scale with that duo either, then yeah it'd be meh at best

[wise nest]

Is that the name

[tired turret]

also hot take, the thing that makes the skulls detonate with omega attack is great, if you have enough base damage and or buffs to omega attack

yep

[proven orbit]

If that's a hot take then my residence is now asphodel because I agree

[wise nest]

It's ok enough but you definitely don't want it on medea

[proper viper]

Hell yeah, I thought I just got lucky. Normally take hera or apollo now. But I'll give afro another shot

[tired turret]

I mean... madea kind of sucks

[proven orbit]

now that's the hot take

[tired turret]

Madea is the one that glues the skull to your hands right?

[wise nest]

...

[zenith bolt]

medea is probably the most divergent aspect in terms of playstyle compared to other aspects on the same weapon

[wise nest]

Who's gonna tell her

[proven orbit]

It is the one

[slate pecan]

I can't stand Medea, I know people like it but I cant

[zenith bolt]

medea is good it's just like, difficult

[tired turret]

okay. heres the problem with medea

[slate pecan]

I'm too stupid for it

[tired turret]

its bad in oceanus

[wise nest]

Yeah some of the serpent hitboxes are impossible to hit

But you can use omega attack and special for that so

[zenith bolt]

which is kinda stinky because otherwise medea runs magickless

[tired turret]

Yeah, i like the base asepct

[wise nest]

The fact that Meda is somehow even remotely in the zip code of Momus/Pan for speedrunning should tell you that aspect is a bit massive

[tired turret]

just like the exploding torches, but they arent balanced atm

[zenith bolt]

its ok, momus is bound to get nerfed eventually

[slate pecan]

Momus is fast while also being very safe to play

[zenith bolt]

i can't imagine devs look at the one button gameplay machine and don't gut it like a fish

[merry flint]

we will all remember momus

[tired turret]

they both have issues, the torch with hit boxes, and madea with problems with the skulls being stuck off screen and oceanus in particular

They are very strong, but not worth it due to the drawbacks for me atm

[warped harness]

the revall skulls being able to get stuck outside of the arena is very stupid

[tired turret]

yep

[warped harness]

it was fine for casts because you always had a primary to default to and it was a concious choice to make your build a cast build

[tired turret]

its annoying and doesnt add interest to the mechanics

the casts i didnt notice as much

[wise nest]

surely they nerf momus and not poseidon who doesn't deserve it at all

[tired turret]

because i went with respawning crystals

[warped harness]

for skull i think it should move into the arena, if the poseidon gain bubbles do the skulls should as well

[zenith bolt]

poseidon is probably getting nerfed too

but momus is a bigger offender i think

[wise nest]

I hope not because it fr is not the problem

Pan has an insane ceiling but honestly I don't think it's super problematic

[slate pecan]

Aphro is surprisingly close to Poseidon in terms of power

[warped harness]

i feel like they just adjust the flat numbers and maybe make kings tide lower

[zenith bolt]

pan ceiling is more because of hammers, isnt it

hook knives etc just giving you like double damage because lol

[wise nest]

In part but like it's the other poseidon abuser

[warped harness]

but it has a lot of nice hammer choices that makr the less highrolly runs nice

[wise nest]

Very good for speedrunning but it's super highrolly and because of how much it wants so many different things it can be a bit yikesy at higher fear

[slate pecan]

Pan has a slow start in comparison but scales better I think

[zenith bolt]

i dont think poseidon needs a large nerf or anything, probably just a slight reduction to the damage

[warped harness]

i think im bothered by the fact that the base mel aspect is a bonus given to you by 2 hammers

[zenith bolt]

and/or as mentioned, a nerf to king tide

[wise nest]

Yeah, between Pan having a slow start, some very solid average hammers that keep it still feeling strong but not insane, and the fact that it's very highroll + magic hungry, it's totally fine as is

[warped harness]

king tide, and like make the flats 2/3rds of what they are currently?

i dislike how momus turns h2 into a click special with no consequence game

[zenith bolt]

bc beyond momus/pan, poseidon is a non-issue

[slate pecan]

Yeah, you need a lot of things to make it work, hammers, damage, magick, gain... It's also super hard to get a good chaos curse esp early on when you still use even normal attacks

[zenith bolt]

and pan isnt that bad relative to momus

[wise nest]

if we're being honest poseidon isn't really doing anything where aph isn't also doing about as well

[zenith bolt]

well aph has the close range restriction which at least forces you to be in the vicinity of the things you're fighting

unlike momus which is incredibly safe high damage from room 1

[wise nest]

I think a good comparison is Eris from the first game. Way more highrolly than other top damage aspects, but the peak is ludicrous and it having just one good hammer is strong but reasonable

Eris and Pan are in a sweetspot to me as far as ludicrous damage weapons go

wait

[warped harness]

the only exception is if you have the poseidon duo, which means youre giving up one kind of survivability potentially for another

[slate pecan]

I like pan. It makes for a fun experience incorporating a variety of moves (at least early on)

[wise nest]

It's 5 AM sorry brain farted

[warped harness]

you probably can sub 2 earth 1 water with water trio and benefit heavily still from the health bonuses

[wise nest]

Plus hitting the god hammers has that perfect feeling of ">:) time for death"

[warped harness]

and if you get aphro dem you can get a nice global damage bump, though its likely more impactful for poseidon than it is aphro

[zenith bolt]

pos aph is just generally strong and i think that's ok

[warped harness]

i like pos aph and want to experiment with the water trio

[zenith bolt]

would rather have gods that are intended to have synergy with each other have synergy with each other

[warped harness]

bruiser vs coarse grit faceroll

[slate pecan]

Boundless flurry my love

[zenith bolt]

now if we could get the dysfunctional fire gods to idk be any good together

[wise nest]

momus just kills everything with no thought no matter what

[warped harness]

apollo is in a wierd but nice spot

[wise nest]

fire gods are just air gods in disguise

[warped harness]

heph:

[wise nest]

He's an earth god that has some fire boons 😌

[zenith bolt]

heph is an earth god that sometimes puts on a fire costume

[wise nest]

I actually think the god balance is pretty solid right now, literally all of them have good synergies and good builds

[zenith bolt]

not to mention fire infusions are kinda Not Good™️ given it's just slow cooker and self healing

which are like, bottom 2? lol

[warped harness]

my only gripe with any synergy is the inherent anti-synergy that hera and zeus have.

but it's also funny

[zenith bolt]

it's fine bc they're different elements anyway

[warped harness]

zeus be damned though if i sac a hera boon for him

[zenith bolt]

if it was like both are earth and you have to deal with basically having approval process for the entire run

that would be really awful

[wise nest]

real

[warped harness]

evil

[wise nest]

Honestly everyone has good value builds

[warped harness]

hera my goat theres a reason i havent unlocked the king's ransom

[zenith bolt]

the run where i got king's ransom for fated list was so scuffed dude

[warped harness]

ough

[zenith bolt]

relying on my lvl 15 storm ring to carry me through all of tartarus

[warped harness]

itd be funny doing like, heph hera zeus and intentionally saccing your boons to activate the hera/heph duo

[zenith bolt]

true

[warped harness]

i should try that for the run where im forced to unlock king's ransom

[zenith bolt]

pools of purging in h2 when i need triple earths to be even more meta than it already is, you see

[warped harness]

maybe on than axe

its wierd how desireable pool of purging is in h2

[plain fossil]

Its a consequence of the 3 god pool, not that weird i think

Im not sure the game needs a boon purger although there was that one time i clicked echo stone and it bricked my run with ionic gain

[wise nest]

don't make them add pool of purging

Bc then they'll add uc back when we already have onion as uc but not as awful

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/560565752084561932/1246028533688569856/image.png?ex=665ae600&is=66599480&hm=828a0985d49500623ccac1fa9dc6c64a53bde4c505d8e158870fa065cb600954&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=466&height=586

Also god value across the board is pretty gaming

[low bear]

there's an empty slot for the purger in the fountain rooms between chambers

[wise nest]

Please god don't add uc

[low bear]

I would like it back for stuff like the Heph/Hera duo

[wise nest]

Me personally I just wouldn't draft a coreslot boon

[low bear]

I feel like Onion is way worse than UC

[wise nest]

It's up front more misery to spare you wasted time later

[low bear]

also makes god keepsakes unusable

[wise nest]

There's nothing like beating elysium on 50+ heat only for a core part of your build to be forced to be sold because ap2 uc teehee

[low bear]

and the upfront costs way more if you're trying to beat a deadline

[wise nest]

Fair but it puts the onus way earlier

You don't get a super good h2 erebus/h1 tart only to have your core boon deleted after you've already gotten it

[low bear]

I guess I've only played up to 40 heat or something in H1 so I don't have experience with super high heat

[wise nest]

I've done some 50ish attempts but got annoyed

[low bear]

but I always took UC for 32 heat but I never touch Onion for 32 fear so that's why I think it's way worse

[wise nest]

My highest is like mid/high 40s

[merry flint]

Im doing 32 heat in h1 now

[zenith bolt]

ixion casino is SS tier

chaos would never fail me

[low bear]

the other heat that gives you less choices feels way worse

[wise nest]

🤝

Domain expansion: embryo keepsake

[merry flint]

Approval Process is awful im glad its Vow of Forsaking now

[low bear]

Vow of atonement though is super fun to play around

[zenith bolt]

_ _ isaac 🤝 hades
chaos deniers in shambles

[proven orbit]

vow of forsaking is secretly -2 fear

[merry flint]

Ngl tho i miss the fact chaos keepsake does free chaos gates

[low bear]

oh I meant forsaking

but yeah those 2

[wise nest]

oh yeah tbf part of why I hate uc more is just because it went hand in hand with ap2

[low bear]

I feel like atonement will be painful if they take out the pomming "bug"

[wise nest]

I think without ap2 onion probably is worse

[low bear]

ap2 is the one where you only have 1 choice?

[wise nest]

Yeah

[merry flint]

Yeh

[zenith bolt]

onion is worse than uc, forsaking is better than ap

[low bear]

yeah that was terribad I'm glad that iddn't return

[wise nest]

And onion + forsaking >>>>>>>> uc + ap2 it isn't even close

[low bear]

Forsaking is actually good most of the time lol

[wise nest]

Especially since forsaking is 95% just a buff

[zenith bolt]

onion is secretly the reason artificer is 6 grasp

[merry flint]

Forsaking just needs you to know your build in advance

[warped harness]

sadness bc selene is fun but just not there yet

[merry flint]

Forsaking punishes yolo strats

[zenith bolt]

would you rather: selene start or be boiled alive

[low bear]

Forsaking has screwed me up sometimes giving me only sacrifice boons lol but I've learned my lesson

[merry flint]

Selene start low fear boiled alive high fear

[zenith bolt]

selene start + onion vow

[low bear]

my Artemis aphro attack got replaced by Hephy attack right before Chronos one time

[merry flint]

Yeah id just kill myself ingame

[zenith bolt]

(you immediately lose the run)

[low bear]

I actually hate Selene because of Selene start

[zenith bolt]

mfw no boons until midshop

[wise nest]

tbf for someone who's starting and hasn't realized how op earth is, hexes can be SUPER strong for helping you clear

[merry flint]

Hestia took my Zeus special on charon because her other option was Apollo cast.

She still had valid boons btw the game just refused to reroll properly

[zenith bolt]

hexes are too rng reliant on getting the actually usable ones as well as too much opportunity cost for path of stars

[wise nest]

mfw I have 7 healing hexes per fountain + the upgrade that lets you store them

[low bear]

damn now that's unlucky lol

[merry flint]

This game will reroll into the same boons and call it random

[wise nest]

Yeah, calls were just another option in a set god, not something you have to choose instead of them

[zenith bolt]

how my ass looks spending 10 rerolls on the first boon because apollo decided to be a prick today

[low bear]

Hexes should be buffs of some kind instead of interrupting your normal playstyle

[merry flint]

Hexes are pointless if you dont use mana

[low bear]

Dark Side had potential but its dps is so dogwater

[wise nest]

Hexes should make you invulnerable while activating so they aren't an active detriment vs chronos lmao

[zenith bolt]

momus speech bubble image

[merry flint]

32 fear momus run ended up priming the entire bar

Wallahi im carried 🧎‍♂️

[wise nest]

Oh yeah i've brought up this topic before but why tf are Hestia and her aspect literally a complete mismatch boon/weapon wise

[zenith bolt]

#h2-victory-boasting activity once they nerf momus 📉

[wise nest]

Like zeus + zeus shield work perfectly together so you can actually see the mental image of zeus using the aegis

[low bear]

Hera Aspect doesn't have Shared Suffering also weird that it's on Rama

[merry flint]

Demeter isnt exactly great either in h1

[wise nest]

Same for Artemis + daggers

[merry flint]

Cast laser on melee weapon

[wise nest]

Not great dps wise but still helpful as far as ccing enemies to make it easier to beat them up

[low bear]

simple answer is they just didn't plan the sequel lol

[merry flint]

H2 demeter is actually kinda goated at melee though

Freeze is so good for cc

[low bear]

I wonder if Origination will still be as popular if we get Family Favorites again as like a Reverse Arcana

[wise nest]

Hestia actively promotes a playstyle of many small hits but the aspect is a sniper rifle

[merry flint]

Origination is 50% and easier than ever to apply

[zenith bolt]

the mental image of demeter throwing hands carried aspect of demeter

[low bear]

I guess Demeter kinda carries Origination most of the time for me

[merry flint]

Doing priv status in h1 needed some planning

The bonus is also bigger this time

[wise nest]

mfw you get origination from a singular god and both of her curses are top tier cc

Demeter op frfr

[merry flint]

Singular god on a single button (cast) that also procs another card (furies)

[low bear]

Demeter is a staple in pretty much all my 32 Fear builds lol

Freeze OP in this game

[merry flint]

Im doing 32 heat h1 gambling for divine dash

Build later dash now

Good lord my sword movement is awful

[wise nest]

It's not just freeze, it's the fact that she has tons of defensive synergy + cyclone to add extra cc AND make projectiles less miserable AND casts as a snare amp her cc even more AND-

[low bear]

Well at least Demeter got a glowup from being one fo the worst gods (imo) in H1 to being one of the best here lol

[merry flint]

And coarse grit

[low bear]

oh yeah Coarse Grit how is it not a Hephy boon btw

[zenith bolt]

and weed killer and synergy with earth gods and coarse grit

[wise nest]

Her and heph are just the replacements for athena lmao

[merry flint]

Ultimate in defense boons tbh athena has nothing on this

[wise nest]

yeah the defensive synergy was what I was talking about

[low bear]

Divine Dash kinda op though

[zenith bolt]

hestia, in the corner, sobbing bc she has the spiritual successor to divine dash

[low bear]

though that's the only thing good about Athena imo LOL

[wise nest]

Athena singlehandedly hard carries high heat runs

[merry flint]

I miss divine dash especially against the indestructible projectile spam

[wise nest]

Absolutely not

[merry flint]

Merciful end

Deadly Reversal

[low bear]

ah true though that's also kinda Divine Dash

[merry flint]

Boosts to Stubborn Defiance

[wise nest]

Merciful end was the only viable build for most melee weapons as far as DPS + athena can amp your stubborn defiances and singlehandedly saves a ton of high heat runs

[merry flint]

I can confirm today itself

I cleared 32 heat sword with merciful end and it was the only reason i actually survived the timer running out

[low bear]

For Sword I always preferred the Double Edge build

[wise nest]

Athena is ludicrously broken and they needed two gods working together to match her defensive power

[low bear]

and for fists Zeus + Divine Dash (except Gilgamesh)

[wise nest]

merciful end wants double edge, sword hammers are universally bad so de is kinda the only good one

[low bear]

ah I meant DE with like Artemis or Aphro attack was more than strong enough for Zag/Nem aspect in 32 Heat for me

so I wouldn't call Merciful End almost required for melee weapons at 32 heat

[wise nest]

It isn't at all, even at like 50 heat someone managed to clear arthur without it and ME is super highrolly for high heat

ME is basically mandatory for speedrunning melee though

But looking back I def see why it seemed like I was connecting the two

It just sucks that basically every melee weapon except achilles all but has to run merciful end to be super fast at clearing and even then they're so far behind other weapons

[proven orbit]

arthur sounds pretty bad with specifically ME anyway

might as well be playing zag instead

[proven orbit]

Most of her boons were, although one funny highlight is Sure Footing being a sleeper pick

[bleak night]

I really think Vow of Panic should be worth 2

[proven orbit]

It's kinda weird because Huntress directly benefits from it, but then trying to run omega builds you are so screwed

Overall I agree though, make it split in 2 tiers, 50%/0% starting magick

[merry flint]

Vow of Panic is polarising

[plain fossil]

I think they need to fix negative priming first

Zero mana too strong alrdy

[merry flint]

Bad design imo for a game that wants you to use more of your systems

Its either free damage or really punishing

[proven orbit]

Plenty of examples of pacts/vows that limit your playstyles, sadly no real way around that when trying to raise difficulty

[low bear]

I do think Panic depends on your build a lot

also if you're taking early Broken Gain it's kind of free Fear

but Broken Gain is for sure getting nerfed soon

[plain fossil]

Idk that depends how constraining sgg want mana to be

Its easily possible that all other gains become working when player is active, for example

[tall notch]

Uh with my mana spending it's not free fear even with that room1 born gain 😭
I'm capable of ooming early game with born gain and 100% mana start

I don't like the design of panic very much. Incredibly punishing for some builds, straight up beneficial for others

[low bear]

if you do take room1 born gain isn't it just basically prime 10 mana

[plain fossil]

I do agree its too binary and would like it to have 2 levels at 1 each

[tall notch]

Yeah and with arrogance I'm tight enough on mana for that prime 10 to matter

[plain fossil]

Yea but if u do this ur doing like half damage for the first two rooms so theres not many builds that want to

[tall notch]

In Erebus

[plain fossil]

I mean in erebus even on 40 fear ur allowed to click special a couple times in the first three rooms i promise its not that slow lul

[tall notch]

https://youtu.be/3CD40s-zK-w?si=6DCLGutXTSjgUxY_
Look at my Erebus mana economy lol

[low bear]

I feel like Torches mana expenditure just needs to be reworked

[plain fossil]

Yea sure im just saying early game its not actually the end of the world if u run out

[bleak night]

How much do you wish you were playing rn

[tall notch]

I click it between mob waves, that's about it

[low bear]

I hate having to let go of my charged omega on Torches because I'm still consuming MP while enemies are spawning

[tall notch]

I mean, idm the break! Will help not getting burnt out before full release lol

[bleak night]

That's fair, yeah.

[plain fossil]

Ye its probs like a full year before release at least

[low bear]

also I feel like revenant pickup radius need to be increased

[eager bay]

i want do do 32 heat with crit axe was the optimal build

[tall notch]

Mayyyyybe. I like revs but ik lots of people hate them

[plain fossil]

I think revenant hitbox is okay

[proven orbit]

As it stands you have to walk on them more precisely than dodging chronos instakill 💀

[plain fossil]

If theres one thing in hades that needs a hitbox fix its fkin harpies

I have lost hundreds of life this week to harpy hitboxes

[low bear]

I've gotten used to them but it still feels clunky I think a little tweaking with help it a ton

[tall notch]

Just dash through!

[plain fossil]

Tbf thats like 6 hits lmao but still

[proven orbit]

I would if it didn't shoot away half a screen away each time I kill a spinner

[bleak night]

How does Toasting Fork work btw? I barely use Zeus

like, does the +75% damage boost to Blitz still apply if you detonate with damage rather than wait for expiration ?

[plain fossil]

uh if ur blitz would expire instead it expires while dealing damage

[proven orbit]

I think it's only if you do NOT detonate with damage

[plain fossil]

its not +75% its 75% of base at level 1, and no

[bleak night]

That's kinda trash, no ?

[proven orbit]

It's homemade doom kind of

[plain fossil]

uh so 2 things: 1 - it scales to way over 100% and 2 - apparently it works with the aph duo which is weird considering the wording

[proven orbit]

^

[plain fossil]

but yea i mean i dont click toasting fork if im trying to actually proc blitz myself

[proven orbit]

I think it's 125% on just epic lvl 1

[plain fossil]

i should probably test toasting fork in some basic scenarios but its easier to ask someone with modded game

[bleak night]

Oh

So it basically counts as expired when you run through it ? I feel like it should state that

[tall notch]

Where would you state that? Noting it in toasting fork description would mislead people and make them think they can run through blitzed enemies

And noting it in the duo description could also be confusing if you don't have toasting fork

[bleak night]

Seems like an odd interaction then if it just works together that way, but adding it into each other's descriptions would cause for confusion

[random river]

exceptional tallent: (legendary apollo boon, omega attacks and omega specials fire twice but use more magick) and giga cleave (silver axe deadlaus hammer: omega specials can have more mana put into them and fire twice) dont stack the positives, but do stack the negatives
you only get 2 blasts but use 60 magick

[tall notch]

That sounds like a bug

[random river]

did indeed report it
just warning people so they dont get scammed as i did

[plain fossil]

i agree its weird

[old lynx]

So I gotta ask what's your favorite Gods for Mana Recovery? I feel Hera is objectively the best but Zeus Ion Gain goes crazy on the right builds

You reduce Mana usage with a Chaos Boon and you can just endlessly spam them

Although with Hera you don't need basically any set up

[bleak night]

I still think Hera's is best, but depending on the weapon you can rely on Poseidon and Aphro

Hestia's is decent, but people don't necessarily go out of their way to run her

[merry flint]

Hestia's pretty consistent for me but you put a lot of trust in the other 2

Hestia also has the bonus cast throw which i prefer

[spare kite]

Chaos

[ionic lily]

I actually think zeus is my least favourite mana boon

[bleak night]

Yeah, it's terrible

[plain fossil]

i dont really like aphro gain for mana the numbers are kinda low. its kinda better when you dont need much mana then its decent utility

[steel sequoia]

dont need mana regen for momus

joking, i like fixed gain and born gain the most.

[steel sequoia]

i feel zeus and hestia are pretty bad on high fear

tranquil gain kinda useless if you play with timer

[uneven palm]

I thought Zeus gain was workable but then Vow of Arrogance

[proven orbit]

hestia is good if you just don't get hit, which the high magick regen rate helps with

[steel sequoia]

thats why i like fixed gain

[proven orbit]

demeter feels bad enough in original game but then you throw in 40% speed and timer 💀

[merry flint]

fixed gain is totally out of control though

[ionic lily]

at least hestia's mana boon has a pretty high unconditional regen rate

[proven orbit]

fixed gain coarse grit, as if you haven't won at coarse grit part already

[ionic lily]

zeus's regen is too slow for such a massive detriment

[steel sequoia]

zeus also has but you cant spam omegas never and arrogance destroys you

[ionic lily]

if he had something like demeter or apollo's rate then maybe it could be considered

[proven orbit]

I don't know, aside from burst or vow of arrogance, the max magick doesn't really matter at all

It's just that vow of arrogance fundamentally kills the boon

Which isn't a new concept either if we look at vow of scars annihilating healing

[steel sequoia]

70% hits hard, should be a 50% imo

[haughty depot]

Yeah I would rather go with no gain for the run than Zeus gain

[cursive ruin]

Does storm ring only strike foes within the cast circle?

[proven orbit]

Yes

[cursive ruin]

Also does it work with charon?

[merry flint]

it does what it says

[steel sequoia]

works, just made a persephone run with heroic storm ring

[split igloo]

Just got hestia and aphro duo boon for the first time in chaos trials. First of all, what the hell.

Tbf it's just hecate but damn, those fireballs are pretty wack

Run into ghost, hecate summons witches, kill, run into ghost, repeat. I didn't even use my attacks against headmistress

[timber pawn]

Depends on what you mean by this, but the normal gameplay loop, it doesn't interact well

[haughty depot]

What hammer do you take with Artemis? Explosive?

[glossy rivet]

i like it

preferably with born gain tho

[sly turret]

What's the best mel torches build?

[steel sequoia]

aphro+apollo

[plain fossil]

What fear are u at

[steel sequoia]

https://postimg.cc/Jt1xVdZN

just get born gain and gg

[celest swallow]

🩷 PINK AURA MENTIONED 🩷

[plain fossil]

The pink aura build struggles a bit at high fear erebus is pretty hard

Below like 20 fear its rly fun tho

[steel sequoia]

use hera special and betray the pink aura

[plain fossil]

Above that demeter special is probably better and definitely by 32

[bleak night]

Pink Aura

[plain fossil]

Its probably possible to make pink aura work at high fear with also local climate but i havent tried and erebus still gonna be hard

[bleak night]

depends, I suppose. I still managed to do it after a few retries for better rng. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1246100149617557615/image.png?ex=665b28b3&is=6659d733&hm=9f8241d58bf6a0c84b2a5e4f88b2c6eca24a2495b51b4a1b200d3ad6cc4fa588&

[sly turret]

With torches I've only beat up to 24 with eos. Was looking to try mel torches so I asked

[plain fossil]

U should try demeter special at high fear fr it makes the earlygame SO much easier

Ive been playing demeter apollo aph still with heartthrobs and with lucid gain

[bleak night]

I'm willing to give it a go once the Local Climate Charon spam I'm enjoying subsides, Bis kinda infected me with it

[plain fossil]

Ha

That looks fun i should try it

[bleak night]

It really is, yeah

[steel sequoia]

dont like local climate i need to be bulky to work

[celest swallow]

wait, how does that interact with the Charon mechanic? does it suddenly follow you once you use the omega special? i haven't had a chance to try that and missed any discussion of it lol

[steel sequoia]

the omega special cleans up, the cast follows you

[plain fossil]

These guys arent clicking special

Theyre clicking local climate and charon purely for +3 second cast

And running around with zeus lightning bolts attached to their buttcrack for 6 seconds

[celest swallow]

oh, right, it's phrased dumbly and any cast follows you, not just

i forgot because i haven't used local climate since the first time i took it out of curiosity

[plain fossil]

Nono theyre omega casting lul just with local climate zeus

[celest swallow]

ah

i was underestimating the silliness

that's kinda great and i want to try it now

[steel sequoia]

its good dmg, u just need to be dodgy and bulky

i dont like too much, i rather be hammering casts

[celest swallow]

i mean, i love medea so that's not so frightening a prospect i guess

[plain fossil]

Well ur demeter alrdy so ur kinda safe by default

[celest swallow]

ye

[plain fossil]

Even with no freeze on cast cyclone is so good

[nova nexus]

For sure

[steel sequoia]

its a dem build with zeus cast basically, i prefer apollo

[nova nexus]

And cyclone being a curse effect is wild, demeter alone can give you origination

[brave owl]

good morning, frens

[steel sequoia]

solar ring + hera special is fun u just blows everything

[tender anvil]

Top 5 boons, in your opinion? My list (in no particular order)

• Wave Flourish
• Born Gain
• Trusty Shield
• Arctic Ring
• Spiteful Strength

[cursive ruin]

I like anvil ring. Clang clang clang

Magicless power

[plain fossil]

Everybodys top 5 gonna be different i think the only hard lock is born gain

[karmic gust]

what does attack/sepcial speed actually do? does it increase your rate of fire, or how fast the projectiles (if there are any) travel? on artemis blades, attack speed increases your omega attack channel speed, which seems weird because chaos and some hammers reduce omega channel speed but dont call it "increased omega attack/special speed"

[tender anvil]

That’s exactly why lists are fun!

[karmic gust]

i still have never used born gain 😂

[brave owl]

omg

[cursive ruin]

Its basically a limitless mana hack

[brave owl]

its like the best mana regen and its not even close

[plain fossil]

I think ur top 5 is close to mine but i also think any top 5 without coarse grit is objectively and tragically wrong because i like it and i am obviously always right

[cursive ruin]

Nah born gain aint a mana regen boon its a "pretend the mana bar doesnt exist" boon

[tender anvil]

Coarse Grit is like number 6, purely due to the fact that it’s hard to activate with Onion Vow, and due to it coming online fairly late in the run, thus having lower overall impact.

[plain fossil]

O B J E C T I V E L Y A N D T R A G I C A L L Y

[karmic gust]

born gain is interesting because its basically the same as giving you a ~7x-10x increase of current mana

[cursive ruin]

I feel like its hard to make a favorite boon list without thinking about the weapon.. like i adore sworn strike on torches but not so much on daggers

[plain fossil]

Seriously tho one of the biggest reasons triple earth eos is a strong build is not really because eos is good on its own its because it naturally builds into coarse grit just in time for it to be strongest

[karmic gust]

i havent calculated the general formula but for 100 mana with priming 8 every time, you get 676 mana total per encounter

[tender anvil]

BUT Trusty Shield at +2 (20 armor) and Coarse Grit is love

[plain fossil]

I am a trusty shield enjoyer ofc

[merry flint]

Its an arithmetic progression...

[plain fossil]

Mint condition would also be a top 5 contender for me as would cyclone on cast

[karmic gust]

im aware

[plain fossil]

Im not sure if those are actual top 5 but i would consider it

[tender anvil]

Top 10 I can agree on, but to me they are “nice to have”, but not run-defining

[karmic gust]

mint condition is prime mana for one free hit right?

[plain fossil]

Cast cyclone in particular wrecks surface for free because its got like 50 projectile slow on it

[tender anvil]

But I love seeming another Triple Earth enjoyer!

[cursive ruin]

No thats winter coat.. mint condition is invuln for the first xx secs

[celest swallow]

invincibility for X seconds at the start of every encounter

[karmic gust]

omg is that why ur name is boron

[plain fossil]

No its invuln for first x seconds its cracked on white antler setups

[celest swallow]

basically the defensive counterpart to hydraulic might

[karmic gust]

ok ok guys i got it thanks 😂

[plain fossil]

I play a lot more surface than most ppl i think so maybe i put more value on cyclone cast

[tender anvil]

Nah, that’s from way-way back. But matches nicely with H2!)

[cursive ruin]

Its rare i get to talk abt stuff i know.. so apologies if im overeager to correct stuff

[plain fossil]

It just ruins so much surface mob things

[cursive ruin]

Nah cyclone cast is awesome i love it too

[karmic gust]

nah ur good i appreciate responses

[cursive ruin]

Makes me feel like im playing aspect of arthur

[tender anvil]

Add to that that cyclone + arctic procs privileged status

[karmic gust]

cyclone cast is probably my fav boon

[plain fossil]

Ye thats the bit everyone talks about but nobody mentions the projectile slow

[karmic gust]

pretty sure it and apollo expander are the only non-core cast boons

[plain fossil]

Its so good at so much things

[cursive ruin]

Arthur slows projectiles too

I dont remember if it slowed mobs movement tho

[karmic gust]

i got so tilted yesterday cause hecate shot sheep through my cast and i dashed to avoid it but since it was slowed i dashed into it instead...

[plain fossil]

Na theres heaps, local climate, bunch of duos, glowing coal/lightning lance,

[karmic gust]

oh right forgot about duos and lances

[plain fossil]

Glowing coal/lightning lance are top 10 btw if not top 5 theyre SO good

Im often finding myself planning around them

[cursive ruin]

My faves are the ones that allow you to deal dmg with ur cast without channeling.. so someth like lightning lance + anvil ring + cyclone cast

[tender anvil]

Another hot take - I dislike thrown casts on Pan. They mess with spacing on +40% speed, and it’s easy to misjudge range as dagger omega special has deceptively short range

[plain fossil]

The only issue is theyre on narrow/bad gods

[plain fossil]

Now that is a hot take

Surely the solution is to learn the range?

Like its so much safer

Fights like polyphemus on daggers suck if u dont have ranged cast

[tender anvil]

The solution, as always, is to get good! In particular I usually have trouble transitioning muscle memory from base cast to thrown cast, particularly on Pan

[plain fossil]

Yea fair enough

I didnt seem to have this problem but dw i got plenty of other problem

[karmic gust]

i have been struggling with 32 heat anvil cast build, have you done it? any tips

[tender anvil]

I’m mostly running underworld, so our mileage may vary

[cursive ruin]

Yeah the dagger range is shorter than youd expect.. but thrown casts should allow you to strike from just outside melee range

[plain fossil]

Ye tru

[cursive ruin]

Which is still safer than channeling under an enemys armpits

[karmic gust]

i kinda agree, but if you get the +20% range its a lot more viable

[plain fossil]

Fwiw i prefer zeus cast to hestia on pan by quite a lot

[tender anvil]

This may also be a steam deck issue - not sure how controllable it is with kbm, but on deck it just throws it in the general direction of an enemy, and it flies until it hits

[karmic gust]

whats the difference? is one hitscan the other projectile?

[plain fossil]

Because a) its instant b) it doesnr get blocked c) chainlightning prime is expensive but its really good on pan

[cursive ruin]

Im thinking of kinda avoiding surface for the time being

Its hard to get a build really going within two areas

[karmic gust]

nah its like that on all controllers, hades cast throw is suuuper annoying

[cursive ruin]

And i wanna learn more about properly making builds instead of just winging it

[karmic gust]

it has a small amount of homing and often locks on to the wrong thing

[plain fossil]

U powerspike a lot faster on surface bc theres no minor find rewards but its more random

[tender anvil]

So on bosses it’s very nice, but normal rooms may struggle with cast skipping mobs immediately in front and flying to the other side of the room

[onyx trench]

I find taking the reroll doors arcana on the surface to be more valuable, since I can force the gods/rewards I want

[plain fossil]

Oh ye idk how it works on controller

Its point and click on kbm excspt the range is sometimes bit weird i think its to do with camera zoom

[karmic gust]

also rift is an annoying level, the stages are physically way too narrow and rectangular so you cant even see the other end most of the time, and the masts/crates are very annoying + i hate fire so much

[onyx trench]

if only it was as accurate as his cast was in the first game…

[tender anvil]

It’s fine on Charon, as you remove it immediately, but can be annoying for Pan

[karmic gust]

lmaooo dad would 360 noscope snipe me with that

[onyx trench]

Fire needs to be tuned down I agree. Ticks way too fast

[cursive ruin]

Also dad doesnt have to wait for the cast to explode.. he can keep chucking them

[plain fossil]

Fire is ok u learn to not stand in it pretty quick the only thing i would change is it shouldnt block ur projectiles

[cursive ruin]

I really wish there was an arcana that allowed melinoe to create multiple cast circles

[dreamy rivet]

are images allowed in this channel?

[steel sequoia]

fire blocks projectiles?

[plain fossil]

Like why does a2 oil fire block projectiles it makes no sense

[onyx trench]

I also would shrink the size of the harpy projectile or make it do less damage, it’s big and annoying

[plain fossil]

The a2 oil fires do

[steel sequoia]

makes sense like hestia boots but its crazy

[cursive ruin]

And its slow too, i always think i can dash through it but nope

[cursive ruin]

You have to upload to imgur and link it here i believe

[onyx trench]

if only Hestia ticked as fast as the surface fire did…

[merry flint]

Wydm zag dodges all of those

[dreamy rivet]

i posted it in victory boasting, not a win yet but its very funny lol

[merry flint]

Now if they did an arena wide high damage shockwave though...

[karmic gust]

why does mel even take fire dmg, her feet are literally molten lava

[onyx trench]

surface nerf

[merry flint]

Lava is cooler than barrels of fire

[cursive ruin]

Nah that dog is cooked

[onyx trench]

that’s why none of the underworld enemies launch fire iirc

[dreamy rivet]

ill post again if i get it to 1 mil

[onyx trench]

idk how I could change Scorch. I know I would, I’m just not sure how.

[karmic gust]

increase dps

[merry flint]

Make it tick faster

[dreamy rivet]

BRUH HE WENT UNDERGROUND AND POPPED UP WITH NO SCORCH

[onyx trench]

that wouldn’t stop the problem of applying too much and then having to wait as long

[merry flint]

Higher base + scales faster with more

[steel sequoia]

the fat frog spits fireballs

[onyx trench]

I don’t want it to be just hangover

[cursive ruin]

I say give it a tier 2 debuff if you inflict scorch equal to an enemys max hp.. their move speed is increased but they move in random directions, can no longer attack and they inflict scorch when they go near other enemies

[onyx trench]

those look like lava to me so I’ll allow it

[onyx trench]

I also agree, there should be a second curse option for Hestia, but then steam gets even more broken

[bleak night]

was wondering what you meant by fat frogs

But, yeah, they're called Hippos, apparently

Guess it's short for Hippocamp

[cursive ruin]

I call em abominations

[cursive ruin]

Oh yeah steam would pop off true

Maybe this tier 2 thing can be her legendary instead..

Like aphrodites charm

[bleak night]

one more run and my top 3 weapons in usage will all be Axes

[onyx trench]

What I think I’d want is the more scorch the opponent has, the faster it ticks, but I’d have no idea how to implement that or how to explain that to players

[onyx trench]

name checks out

[steel sequoia]

i feel like hestia scorch should work better with other duo boons, looks like just steam is broken for me

[cursive ruin]

I was tryna do a charon run with storm ring only to realise they dont work together

[steel sequoia]

u have to full omega cast to work, so u get +3 seconds its good

[plain fossil]

What like scorch loses 1/3 of its stacks per second and deals that much damage?

[tender anvil]

They do, just not how you would normally play Charon

[cursive ruin]

Its a lot of magic consumption.. well good for hexes ig

[steel sequoia]

yeah its a cast build, i prefer persephone with zeus

[tender anvil]

@timber pawn had a funky Charon build with Zeus cast and Local Climate

[onyx trench]

That’s why we Apollo Zeus duo boon :))

[cursive ruin]

Yeah i honestly wanna try gunning for that.. ive never done a build centered around it

Also does the duo boon that increases ur cast cost every time you use it work with charon?

[timber pawn]

I've beenm playing it a bunch and I think its a fun counter-intuitive build that does work, but its not amazing haha

[bleak night]

sure does

[onyx trench]

oh you’re gonna have some fun. if you get one of the cast targeting boons, and nab the legendary, you can blow up rooms

[bleak night]

It's fun, but I feel kinda awkward using it a bit

[timber pawn]

ya, I've been trying it without sorceress arcana so storm ring can do more damage

but its just too unsafe that way imo

[cursive ruin]

Ig you can spawn camp lmao

Dunno how itd work on chronos tho

[knotty fulcrum]

I also had one where I got apollo-demeter duo and it was doing crazy damage

[onyx trench]

I’m a Circe aspect enjoyer, I just wish it was synergizing better with the boons

[bleak night]

what

You're the first person I've seen that plays Circe unironically

[knotty fulcrum]

I played some too :)))

[bleak night]

some people play it on 32 Fear with the Momus playstyle just to get it out of the way lmao

[cursive ruin]

Circe is the serenity one right?

[bleak night]

What did you build on it ?

[knotty fulcrum]

it was like scorch on attack and zues' cast with local climate. and you want to get zeus infusion so scorch does much more damage

[onyx trench]

It is

[steel sequoia]

i didnt touched circe and moros

[knotty fulcrum]

and I played cirice because you don't even need mana regen like that and also seems like the best aspect for this

[bleak night]

I remember the time I wasn't touching Charon Axe because it played too differently from the other two

[onyx trench]

I think the staff design is cool, and I think Serenity is a cool status buff. Just wish it made you channel even faster than it does, so I can fire off beefy omegas even MORE

[cursive ruin]

I felt like you could use serenity in place of like a gain boon.. provided you were willing to rapidly attack or special

[tender anvil]

I think the Apollo cast Charon (+2 duos, +apollo leg) is kinda the basic Charon power fantasy, if you get them all you just annihilate stuff

[onyx trench]

staff attack is good so that’s fine

and for some reason the staff has two different hammers that let you attack twice

[tender anvil]

But the more prosaic high fear Charon is actually the old triple earth

[cursive ruin]

Plus apollo

[onyx trench]

quadruple bonk

[cursive ruin]

Wait does that count to serenitys count? The bonus bonks i mean?

Cuz now i wanna try that if its true

[bleak night]

The hammer bonks? Yeah

[cursive ruin]

No i mean like apollos double strike bonks

[bleak night]

Oh, I'm unsure. I've actually never tried Circe much, maybe just two runs

[cursive ruin]

Hmm I might as well try it the next time then

[steel sequoia]

i like torrential downpour (dem apo duo) better than the other options

[cursive ruin]

Just a fast bonk build

[clever drum]

What are some good gods to go for with aspect of mel axe? I imagine aphro is up there

[merry flint]

hera

big damage raw boost + hitch to spread

demeter if you're struggling with fear - you can freeze them and grind them down

[signal mantle]

someone give me your 29 arcana build

[proven orbit]

rerolls, boatman, eternity, origination, huntress, eternity, lovers, and a bit on whatever

[bleak night]

[sharp moss]

Hello everyone ^^ loving the game so far, but I'm having a hard time getting warm with Ygnium/flames... can someone suggest me an Aspect I should try, and which hammers/boons I should prio?

[bleak night]

Can I interest you in a meme build ?

[sharp moss]

I've done one or two nigths w Eos flames

[sharp moss]

I love memes so yes go ahead

[bleak night]

@tall notch @timber pawn @civic ocean It's time

[celest swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-cutecore-pink-pastel-anime-gif-24415521

[bleak night]

Have you tried Pink Aura ?

[timber pawn]

this is perfect lmao

[tall notch]

PINK AURA????

[sharp moss]

Am I being recruited into something

[bleak night]

Yes. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1240870334731653160/image.png?ex=665b3fce&is=6659ee4e&hm=57c81c7eb3c1d29ca672bef75c99ab4341197cb1c3e4b40678f1ea806824f5db&

[celest swallow]

Pink Aura is love, Pink Aura is life

[bleak night]

Perfect addition, Cleena. Thanks

[tall notch]

Pink aura pink aura pink aura

[sharp moss]

LMAO I loved the build from the trial, thought it was so cheesy and silly

But I will try it out seriously then. I take my memes very, very seriously

[lament sapphire]

isnt cheesy and silly the best

[sharp moss]

can't argue with that tbh

[lament sapphire]

serious and optimized build? nah

[bleak night]

Pink Aura is Mel Torches with a focus on Aphro Special. Put out Apollo on Attack and work towards his Legendary. Also, work towards Heart Breaker and the Aphro-Apollo Duo. Your preferred Mana regen is Hera, but Poseidon also works if you end up with him

[lament sapphire]

You mean infinite mana with Hera

[bleak night]

here is some Pink Aura gameplay where I just run into him and eat 150 damage because I statcheck him anyway https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1240931221781872670/Pink_Aura.mp4?ex=665acfc2&is=66597e42&hm=352cb056043a6b2739794d11ea3a695d43d5542d7f078f723bf2b8502481d939&

[true crypt]

i've seen so much of this pink aura i gotta try it myself. i wanna see its splendor

[sharp moss]

you da goat, thanks so much

[bleak night]

That's true

[lament kestrel]

its very fun

[bleak night]

Try it, it's dumb fun

[sharp moss]

NAH this is insane haha I love it

this Barbie is whooping ol' Chronos' ass tonight 💅

[bleak night]

But, yeah, once you get the meme build out of your system, some people here should be able to give you proper builds that work in both low and high fear

Pink Aura works in high fear only if you're lucky enough to find the components fairly early on

[sharp moss]

I think I just need to learn to love the flames, I've been an axe/staff enjoyer so far, just didn't enjoy the feel of the flames

[lament sapphire]

any specific build on high build is kinda really rng based anyways

[bleak night]

I suppose that's true

[cursive ruin]

This looks fun as hell.. does it work with thunder sprint or breaker sprint?

[lament sapphire]

if you get the good boons early, smash early game

[bleak night]

I haven't really tried because honestly, the orbs melt so hard that you almost barely need anything else

[sharp moss]

I've been digging a lot of Hestia/Poseidon and Demeter/Apollo builds, DPS goes brrr

[lament sapphire]

me like big numbers go bigger

[sharp moss]

yes

[cursive ruin]

I just tried the charon apollo build.. 10/10 would recommend with thrown cast

[bleak night]

Zeus-Apollo on Charon is really good, yeah

[lament sapphire]

i kinda want to try a sprint build one day

[celest swallow]

i'm legit tempted from earlier to play with the silly-ass local climate build now

[bleak night]

I won a run once by disabling Attack, Special and Cast and only sprinted. I honestly can't recommend it

[sharp moss]

@bleak night thanks so much for the ideas, I'll be in the lab and will report my findings asap 🫡

[bleak night]

Have fun !

[lament sapphire]

HERESY

gotta go fast is a legit build and i won't hear otherwise

[bleak night]

My fave build is the revenge afk one

[cursive ruin]

Wait im getting distracted by pink aura.. i came here to ask.. is aphro attack worthwhile on mel daggers? Or should i just get poseidon or zeus?

[lament sapphire]

the classic

[sour cape]

Scorch, AQ Pan is a lotta fun

[bleak night]

Yeah, it's really funny

[celest swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/weegee-gif-6078923

[sour cape]

Pos/Zeus if just attacking I think

[bleak night]

If you wanna see the afk kill #h2-victory-boasting message

[cursive ruin]

Mm im using mel aspect..

[sour cape]

Aphro for Omegas

[lament sapphire]

depends on which aspect and build tbh

[cursive ruin]

But i suppose either way scorch aq is interesting

[lament sapphire]

but omega attack build with aphro is pretty good

[sour cape]

Does Scorch crit?

[lament sapphire]

not the best in terms of dagger builds but reliable since you omega so much

[sour cape]

Prob just the ticks crit? 🤔

[cursive ruin]

Hmm i wanna make use of the backstab dmg bonus from mels aspect.. so maybe i should go for omega attack into poseidon normal attacks

[lament sapphire]

do they crit? never labbed this so I can't say

[lament sapphire]

i doubt poseidon attack is good for omega builds

[sour cape]

cant go wrong with backstab poseidon

[lament sapphire]

just plain stab? sure

[cursive ruin]

Im just using omega to get behind enemies

[lament sapphire]

i see i see

just go infinite mana and omega all day with hera

ez build complete

[true crypt]

if we're talking daggers what's the recommended build for aspect of artemis? trying to beat 16 fear w/ it

[slate pecan]

i like aphro attack on artemis

demeter cast and maybe hera for mana

[cursive ruin]

Remember to turn off sorceress arcana if ur doing artemis aspect.. feels way better to parry without the slow down

[lament sapphire]

i think whatever you go it's a sound build

[true crypt]

learned this lesson already, lol. figured aphro attack was best but wanted to double check, cheers!

[cursive ruin]

I cant wait to max out the judgement arcana so i can do some runs with it

[civic ocean]

You know you keep calling it a meme build but if SDC approves my VOD it's the Flames world record run for 32 Fear

[merry flint]

inb4 torch buffs make pink aura meta

[sand latch]

When you get % boosts to cast damage, what does that boost? I assume omega damage, but does it also boost the damage of boons relating to the cast?

[bleak night]

👀

[civic ocean]

And it wasn't even a fast run I could get it down

Bis probably has a faster torches run tbh

I took two chaos curses that made me play without the omega special for 5 floors

[steel sequoia]

i got a 5 random room because i didnt wanted to play without omega cast lmao

sometime you have to choose from bad and worse

[civic ocean]

I finished the curses after room 1 oceanus with 0 DDs and like 43 HP?

But I used 45% less mana and channelled 20% faster so I kinda just went crazy

[light aspen]

This is so dope omg :0

[bleak night]

JOIN US

[light aspen]

I think i must 👀

[bleak night]

The allure of Aphrodite's Pink Balls of Love

Also, it's actually pretty viable

[light aspen]

And you’re using the aspect of mel right?:)

[bleak night]

Yep, that duration bonus keeps the pink gleam

[light aspen]

deff the next build im gonna try im v intruiged :3

What arcana cards are must haves?

[bleak night]

@civic ocean You still have your Pink Aura guide up for the Arcana setup ?

[bleak night]

nvm here it is https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/Resources/Aspect of Melinoe Flames - Incredible Balls

[light aspen]

Thank you!

[bleak night]

sure thing, hope you have fun with the build

[civic ocean]

Thats outdated but it should work

[steel sequoia]

i think the best part is diggin some chaos boons to help the pink aura

[low bear]

Imagine instead of nerfing Momus they introduce Rapid/Marauding Moonshot

[proven orbit]

I need marauder omega special because trying to play with that made me numb in 5 minutes

[upbeat plover]

Does anyone have a viable axe build?

[agile cliff]

you got aspects unlocked?

[civic ocean]

https://hades2-fear-run.vercel.app/Resources/Aspect of Charon - The Ion Cannon

[ionic moon]

happy friday all, i made a silly thing
https://hades2-crossroads.vercel.app/pencil-meta

[civic ocean]

lmaooo nice

[acoustic sphinx]

ooh sick

[civic ocean]

I don't have a free monitor while I stream so back to the pencil for me but very cool app

[mystic bison]

LMAO

[analog ether]

Yep, I definitely hate the idea of having enemies spawn in the Ephyra Courtyard.

[mystic bison]

You can ignore those, they don't attack unless you do

[civic ocean]

The dk impersonator does

[analog ether]

Not when they are the explosive eyeballs, and they are immediately right in my face as I return to the courtyard

[civic ocean]

from downtown

[analog ether]

Literally exploded before I had time to react, knocked me right down to 5 health.

I genuinely don't think human reflexes are that good to be able to avoid that.

[tender anvil]

Love love love that. While at it, we should make a Ephyra map photobank

[steel sequoia]

i didnt quite understand it, thought it were to build something, its just a highlight? should i highlight what i want to see only? srry if im too dumb

[ionic moon]

it's just to help you manually track boons for vow of forsaking

[steel sequoia]

tysm thats helpfull

[spare kite]

https://tenor.com/view/its-peak-peak-fiction-one-piece-gif-26139262

[slate pecan]

woah this is fire!

[civic ocean]

Nah nah nah Forsaking encourages too much TEDIUM

stop feeding into the TEDIUM Kuro!

[sly turret]

What's the best medea skull build?

[civic ocean]

Probably some combination of Zeus and Aphrodite, since Medea works well at offsetting the downsides of Blitz and Aph boons in general

I don't play a lot of Medea though so I could not say for sure.

[true burrow]

guys does zeus and apollo duo boon work with aspect of charon

[merry flint]

yes

[ionic moon]

what's the photobank mean? people have figured out the possible layouts?

[tender anvil]

Nah, some tool to screencap Ephyra map, so studying it doesn’t waste time. Stupid joke on my part

[ionic moon]

oh lol, hopefully that's irrelevant soon once they make the bat cages pause the timer

[tender anvil]

Same with forsaking, that’s the joke! Hope QoL improvements come before nerfing Momus

[civic ocean]

actually yes though, mynt posted smth here yesterday

[mystic bison]

I saved the pic hold up

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1242098453979598872/1246191108770369688/EphyraMap2.png?ex=665b7d69&is=665a2be9&hm=bf635e87b447488b493ddf7a4d13cb4aa205d8fa3e74ea82c9f95408f22f1efa&

[sly turret]

Which on attack and special?

[civic ocean]

Should be Aphrodite on Attack and Zeus on Special, that way your special will place blitz on the target and then your attacks will blow up, detonating the blitz.

[mystic bison]

The colours are for different room sizes so from smallest to largest it goes like: yellow (npc room) < blue < green < orange < red

[civic ocean]

looks like the run changes depending on whether or not the miniboss or medea are in the run, which is honestly super neat

[tender anvil]

Now that’s quality content!

You guys are on fire tonight

[civic ocean]

the speedcord came up with that IIRC

[split igloo]

does anyone know how uncommon grace works? Is the boon just nullified if you have any common boons?

[civic ocean]

yes, it activates if you have only rare or higher boons

[split igloo]

ah

[civic ocean]

Hera's infusion Proper Upbringing turns all of your boons Rare, though, which then activates Uncommon Grace.

[split igloo]

oohh okay

[wild pine]

But then you could still gain a common boon later and turn off uncommon grace again

[tender anvil]

Don’t think it’s possible to get common boon with Proper Upbringing, correct me if I’m wrong

[split igloo]

i don't tnink ive even come across proper upbringing

[civic ocean]

I don't believe you can be offered a common boon with Proper Upbringing active.

Which is a whole other can of worms with Vow of Arrogance, TBH

[white steppe]

ok ive done all trials and testaments so the only thing left to do is 32 on all aspects, is there a spread sheet somewhere w heat setups for each aspect or something?

[civic ocean]

no but im working on a Fear guide atm

[drowsy dragon]

Is it intentional for Persephone charged special to lock you in a direction for the entire duration?

[civic ocean]

Nope, in fact you should be able to steer, and I regularly can?

[tender anvil]

Fun fact - you actually can discard boons with Hestia’s burnt offering. If if you discard Hera’s degrading boon, your heroic boons stay heroic.

[astral edge]

is burnt offering offered multiple times, or only once?

[tender anvil]

If you don’t discard it with Forsaking - it can be reoffered

Another fun fact - Hera can pick boons already at Heroic for degrading. So be careful with that if your core boon is already heroic.

[mystic bison]

By rerolling you can also change which boon is targeted by Burnt Offering btw

[viscid rain]

Does Vow of Suffering (100% more damage on the first hit you take) work with Hephaestus boons where you're invincible for 10sec?

[mystic bison]

No, but it works with his trusty shield boon

That is the best way to counter the vow

[viscid rain]

the trusty shield is where you prime magic to get armor?

[mystic bison]

Yes

[charred lintel]

i only get that hera boon in erebos, and then it never offers it to me again 😦

[viscid rain]

I see. That's a good counter yeah

[astral edge]

demeter's one instance of damage negation should also be avoided for this, you take the full vow of suffering bonus after it breaks

[mystic bison]

Yep, Lovers doesn't work either

[drowsy dragon]

Hmm. Maybe I've got a bug, it likes to lock me in a direction which typically has me stuck on a wall

[civic ocean]

https://clips.twitch.tv/PrettiestHandsomePeanutChefFrank-5PBVBFyJ3Vs36TRw okay so with this knowledge - specifically that you can artificer into hammers

It should theoretically be possible to get more hammers than we thought, maybe?

[tender anvil]

Yeah, theoretical maximum is 8 if i’m not mistaken. 6 is realistically achievable.

[civic ocean]

is the 8 from re-rolling 3 minor finds all into hammers

[tender anvil]

Yeah

[civic ocean]

that's hilarious

[astral edge]

someone would probably need to look into the code to check whether getting an artificer hammer disables getting one as a room reward later or vice versa

I'm pretty sure artificing a hammer in erebus means another won't show up till fields, unless I've been unlucky each time I got a hammer that way?

[tender anvil]

2 normal

• experimental hammer
• echo duplication
  +charon shop
  +3 Artificer

[civic ocean]

the difference here is you can artificer a minor find into a hammer while a hammer is available normally, or shown on the tree

That makes Artificer really quite good on Blades I feel

[astral edge]

oh, that's a fun exploit

[civic ocean]

dunno if you can fit it for 6 grasp sadly

[astral edge]

it does seem a little too costly, being the only over 5 grasp

hope they cut it down or increase the number of times you can use it

[uneven palm]

Got a new favorite Mel Torch build you guys https://imgur.com/a/0ltyjYC

[civic ocean]

Looks like a variation on Pink Aura, pretty cool

[tender anvil]

I took artificer at 45 Pan, to get an erebus boon earlier (you can artificer room 2 minor find into garlic). So it’s at least somewhat viable.

[civic ocean]

I think Bitterness makes sense for it yeah, Artificer continues to be better than I thought every week

[spare kite]

Watered down dark foresight still pretty nice it seems

[civic ocean]

I would still love it more if it rerolled the doors but c'est la vie

[uneven palm]

I think it makes sense as a counter to Bitterness, but 6 grasp is so expensive and you have no control over what you get which is sad

I need to play around with Artificer more

[civic ocean]

The way I think about it is - is 3 major finds going to outperform the 6 grasp I cut for it

On Flames, where I run it, I cut Death and Origination for it - since it's hard for Pink Aura to inflict 2 statuses and get Exceptional Talent, Born Gain, and Sunny disposition, so 3 Major Finds are almost certainly outperforming those two combined.

[uneven palm]

That's a smart way to think about it. I think when I played around with it I cut Boatman and was very sad.

[uneven palm]

Do you front-load the Artificer swaps early? Like burn them all in Erebus ASAP?

Or probably wait until god pool is set?

[civic ocean]

Personally I don't - you can with Bitterness active but I wait until I have my god pool set

[tender anvil]

Tbh at high fear it’s quite helpful, as Erebus is often the hardest part. You also take boatman for mid erebus shop boon

[civic ocean]

sometimes I do if I feel like I will lose the run otherwise

Like Boron is saying, I play 5 minute timer on Flames so if I know I'm like super unlucky with rooms and are like 30-40 seconds behind I might artificer early so I can clear rooms 5-8 seconds faster and make up the time

[uneven palm]

Makes sense! I also typically run 5-minutes at higher fear and Erebus is the hardest part.

[drowsy dragon]

Finding out that Eos and scorch pair rather nicely

[uneven palm]

Well the timer and also getting stabbed for 88 damage from wandering spear lobsters in room 2 omg

[tender anvil]

Wandering hippos would like to have a word. While not as immediately deadly they are made to waste your time with homing shots, explosive death and running away half the time

[uneven palm]

Also just the worst

[rough fjord]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807617859920461864/1246209820160294942/sandevistan.mp4?ex=665b8ed6&is=665a3d56&hm=16b87d9e83725387e408de81336b9f7c2557ed2fcbf2d69c73c67b578b3679f8&

artemis aspect 💚💚💚💚

same build resulted in probably the smoothest chronos p2 ive had so far https://streamable.com/ai1jeh

[old barn]

anyone know which Staff aspect is the best? or is it up to preference?

[rough fjord]

momus easily

[old barn]

its the one i've been pouring my testaments into alongside Thanatos and Medea aspects

i keep forgetting to use it tho

[steel sequoia]

damn ive got this useless duo with vow of arrogance and it hurts so bad never doing it again https://postimg.cc/nCQkFrYv

[low bear]

Damn psychic whirlwind and charge speed hammer is pretty broken combo'd together you can have 2 spin to wins at the same time

[rough fjord]

BEYBLADE BEYBLADE LET IT RIP

[low bear]

Hell yeah Chronos got melted lol

I had Weed Killer on too

[steel sequoia]

yall be that greedy to? i dont even have a cast lmao https://postimg.cc/ThjdZqBm

[rough fjord]

you might in the future

ur only at room 16

[steel sequoia]

bruh how is this rng so bad? i got two hammers with only 1 useless special boon... i dont even have an attack boon came on i dont want attack game.

[tired fulcrum]

Hammer reroll getting added in next patch :copium:

[rough fjord]

absolute state of my god preferences 😭 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807808361437200394/1246220936445693952/image.png?ex=665b9930&is=665a47b0&hm=6c771a85a295139dce0a1de9db853e95612839404bf519dd022a79d8141219d4&

[old barn]

I think Hestia wants to help you a little, just a hunch tho

[high linden]

https://tenor.com/view/wheeze-wheeze-laugh-nikkal-kundhal-nikkalkundhal-gif-23223780

[strange kite]

at least it’s overworld where hestia is good

[low bear]

At least Hestia allows you to cheese Eris

[tired fulcrum]

All you want is her sprint tho

Door reroll time

[rough fjord]

how so?

[low bear]

hestia sprint takes away most of Eris's attacks

[sour cape]

Soot Sprint blocks all her gunfire

[rough fjord]

LOL

[sour cape]

Pretty nice

And Soot Sprint aslo great vs Charybdis since eats all the bombs

[low bear]

I do wonder how they can make Hestia's scorch better

[steel sequoia]

i might have screwed over my charon run https://postimg.cc/H8T2s1Hb

[low bear]

that's why I usually prioritize MP over HP with that Vow

[silent crow]

make pomminh it increase dps instead of duration

[steel sequoia]

getting normal ionic gain wasnt one of my smartest moves

yeah couldnt save that run i totally f up

[sour cape]

Yea dont take Ionic Gain, howd you even get 90 mana with jt

[celest swallow]

"but the fates said i'd eventually take Ionic Gain!"

yeah, and they also got got by peepaw, so like... they don't know everything, okay

[sour cape]

Fates want you to throw runs for taking King and Queens Ransom

[civic ocean]

gonna go live and mess around with psycho blades and money laundering

[ashen falcon]

Slapping some decent damage on a Geyser Ring build
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1165711423264002099/1246238460524630097/Hades_2_-_Poseidon_Geyser_Ring_Build.mp4?ex=665ba982&is=665a5802&hm=c64c5a899a3cb988de55840506bf1fc5f5e5f427fd1f910b2d05980c5df9422b&

[low bear]

does anyone else have normal attack on R1/RB for controller? Having it on the face buttons strains my thumb pressing so many buttons

[magic moss]

i got both Kings and Queens ransom in 1 run, entered Eris fight with a +4 common hera attack only, was kinda lit

[tall notch]

I kept attack where it is and moved dash and cast

[low bear]

I see could just be because I play a ton of Dark Souls/From Soft so I'm just used to r1 being normal attack

[tired fulcrum]

i moved dash cast and special to shoulder buttons

[low bear]

I'm fine with dash on face since you don't use the Right Analog anyway

face buttons better for dexterity and shoulder is button for spamming imo

[tall notch]

I don't like using r1/l1 for anything I press often. Dash and cast are on triggers, cast is on b and attack+special are default

[glossy timber]

@tall notch Remind me again what the OP build is for Eos, if you'd please

[low bear]

Hera triple earth

[glossy timber]

I'm sure you've repeated it a million times by now

[low bear]

I see I always rebind attacks to shoulder buttons now because of CoD/Dark Souls lol

[magic moss]

prob hera hera hera hera hera hera with a dose of hera and born gain