h2-builds-and-combat

[sudden belfry]

oogh eos is kind of a learning curve huh

[civic ocean]

Pers Skull, or Mel Staff

[karmic gust]

speaking of, how do you use lion fang? seems weak as its the best in the easier chambers

[civic ocean]

Lion Fang is good when you need damage

[wild pine]

Seismic Hammer? It's fun but not that good. 500 base every 15 seconds means at most it is adding about 33 base dps. That's before various damage mults, but I've heard that Furies is currently bugged to not apply to Poseidon cast.

Lots of infusions and duos have substantially better output. The Poseidon/Hesty steam clouds have 125 base dps and can always be up, for instance.

[ashen timber]

I would use it if i knew I was going into an area I struggle with, since it probably won't last much longer after that.

[karmic gust]

i havent levelled it at all actually, what does rank 3 do? more dmg?

[civic ocean]

It's easily getting to like 2k dmg omega cast damage with moon+geyser+vent+global modifiers

[civic ocean]

rank 3 is 25% extra dmg to chronos if you go right to him and only stop at dad

[karmic gust]

oh so its like 60% extra dmg with -5% an encounter?

[civic ocean]

50 ye

[wild pine]

Sure. Once every 15 seconds, and if you're saving it for a big target you can't use your normal omega cast, and the vent part is delayed, and also vent can't self-stack and you already need another way to apply it. Is it playable? Sure.

But it's probably the 3rd best of the three Poseidon duos that upgrade omega cast.

[civic ocean]

poseidon only has one duo that upgrades omega casts?

[wild pine]

Ah, you're right, sorry. I accidentally opened Apollo, thinking Torrential Downpour would be Apollo/Poseidon instead of Apollo/demeter

[civic ocean]

also it doesn't disable your omega cast for the 15 seconds its down it's just a sick extra smash for like 500 + 300+ vent damage every 15 seconds which is pretty crazy once you add in the modifiers

[tall notch]

That Poseidon+Heph duo sounds a lot like weapon agnostic boon stacking to me

[civic ocean]

Yeah I guess it works best on Persephone

[wild pine]

Seems great for cheesing Chronos if you just want to play keepaway. But not that efficient for clearing rooms, considering armor, spawn waves, revenants if you use revenants, and all the other shenanigans that make single nukes unwieldy in this game.

[plain fossil]

I tried this thing yesterday btw it is the most unreal zdps

[stark loom]

Any good use cases for the Demeter boon that makes the cast move around with you?

[plain fossil]

Clearing rooms is fine but i ended up dying to chronos p2 after about a 5 minute fight

[civic ocean]

what did you use for %dmg mods

[plain fossil]

And like 700 damage taken lul

[tall notch]

I look away from the discord for a few minutes and everyone is WABSing already 😔

[warped harness]

I TOOK ZEUS GAIN ON AQ SCORCH AND NEARLY LOST THE RUN

[wild pine]

I haven't yet felt happy with it. I guess maybe the best case is Artemis daggers? Drop an omega, fast-charge a tele-gank and blow up for profit?

[plain fossil]

Uh i had all the usual stuff from arcana, i had poseidon heph demeter and the relevant button clicks from those, i ran mel staff over persephone

[keen moon]

GUYS I DID IT I BEAT HIM FINALLY

[stark loom]

Same here, trying to think about how to use, but it feels supplementary at best. Wouldn't know how to do a good cast build with it.

[keen moon]

WITH YOUR ADVICE HERE I DID IT

[tall notch]

WP!!!

[plain fossil]

Like its enough damage to blow up packs pretty easily but chronos was not fun at all with that setup u only get to do damage every 15 seconds unless u want to play very risky with heph sprint

[wild pine]

I guess persephone skull cast->spesh works

[civic ocean]

Bismuth is playing Charon with manual omega cast using Local Climate

It's also good on Charon regularly because you get the 30% damage boost

[wild pine]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that, but that makes sense. Drop a normal cast, set it off with special, and it gets the +damage while staying where it was?

[stark loom]

oh yeah, that's a good one to try 🙂

[plain fossil]

oh i lied it was poseidon heph hestia for the ranged cast

i dont think geyser ring is playable without ranged cast maybe with no speed vows

[karmic gust]

i think local climate is good in general if you have the +30% dmg to foes in cast card active (and ur playing melee/mid range ofc)

[timber pawn]

No you just kind of ignore the special explosion element haha

[wild pine]

Oh, is this assuming Zeus cast?

[timber pawn]

Yup! I posted the vid up the chat a bit

[tall notch]

If you just want furies procced, you can use your normal cast instead of omega. You can place one down during most animations

[wild pine]

Yeah, I saw one of your zeus charon runs but didn't realize local climate was in the mix

[timber pawn]

Zeus cast with local climate so it follows me around, I got local late Oceanus which is when it really came together

[stoic ridge]

I love zeus builds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aPqeGZMIps

[wild pine]

Weird thought: if you get Local Climate and Rapture Ring, can you drag enemies around with you like a katamari?

[timber pawn]

Fwiw I tried all night to beat my time on than axe but honestly the 3 extra cast seconds is the only thing that makes the idea work lol

[karmic gust]

kinda? there are 3 "pulses" per cast with rapture ring

[long hemlock]

i was gonna try to do 32 on all aspects, i got about half way, i just cant until they add a reroll hammer option, i pray that they add it in some capacity, resetting is beyond tedious right now

[timber pawn]

Given it wasn't in h1 I wouldn't hold my breath

[plain fossil]

one presumes with than axe instead of local climate u click a ranged cast and play it like that

[timber pawn]

Sure but I wanted to try and do the exact same thing on than since in theory it might work better. Since charon just adds 3 sec. Vs than adding crit chance

[long hemlock]

surely they can expand upon whats in hades 1

[timber pawn]

Turns out those 3 seconds is important

[plain fossil]

well its a lot of additional channel time

[timber pawn]

Fair, I have doubts this is one piece that will change, but we'll see! Are there any aspects you're particularly struggling with? I might be able to assist

[uneven palm]

Poseidon + Hepb is solid with Charon. Use Hera for Spiteful on the omega special for good measure

[long hemlock]

its not even about assisting

its time and tedium, bad 1st biomes are just unsavable for alot of the worse aspects on 32

[timber pawn]

I don't think that's true, I've done 32 all aspects, some are definitely tougher than others though. To your point

[tired fulcrum]

Just dont get hex start

[timber pawn]

My fastest 32 has a hex start I think lol

[long hemlock]

show me some bad 1st biomes on circe or persephone on 32, i kneel to ur skill

[tired fulcrum]

Was it momus tho

[long hemlock]

if u can prove it

[timber pawn]

It wasn't a hex start mb

https://youtu.be/_FVHH_NsERM?si=wcfvP-p2LvXQUfTi

My fastest 32 is persephone though

[tall notch]

To make the 32 fear speedrun category balanced, Momus should play at 40 instead

[timber pawn]

Hera is a great god for getting out of erebus at 32/5 mins

[long hemlock]

sure its possible, my issue is with how tedious restarts are, if there was a faster option i wouldnt care if i had to do 80 restarts a run

[tall notch]

Play without DDs, lets you restart faster

[long hemlock]

🫡

[timber pawn]

None of my 32s took more than 10 tries, you can make stuff work

[long hemlock]

then ur a god

[timber pawn]

But I get it, it feels much better when you get the good hammer in erebus etc

[tall notch]

Like if you know the weapon you're pushing with I think 7 min Erebus at 32 is doable regardless of rng

[long hemlock]

ehh ill wait til a balance pass, ive done pretty much everything i really want to do, mostly pushing axe 32 times, especially with charon bc for some reason ppl say its bad

[tall notch]

Who's saying Charon is bad? It lacks build variety and is stupidly hammer reliant but it's pretty powerful if you get the right things

[plain fossil]

i dont think ive ever seen anybody say charon is actual bad, certainly not relative to the actual bad aspects

[long hemlock]

do u watch youtube?

[tall notch]

Are you talking about that Haelian tierlist?

[long hemlock]

no i dont watch haelian

[plain fossil]

hammer reliant, yes for sure, only like 2 builds, yes for sure, but actual bad seems pretty wild when mel axe and moros are in the game

[long hemlock]

im talki ng about greater sentiment

[timber pawn]

I mean I made charon work with some real dumb stuff today

[long hemlock]

as long as born gain is in the game i think its super underrated

[plain fossil]

ive seen way more ppl incorrectly say mel torches are bad than charon axe and imo theyre about the same

[long hemlock]

granted i have done ALOT of 32s with charon

[plain fossil]

like u see the first opinion 20 times a day here and the second opinion almost never

[timber pawn]

*my first charon clear took like 10 attempts though, I won immediately when I got the special channel speed hammer

[long hemlock]

yea special speed especially when ur doing max agi fear is just win more

[tall notch]

Tbh Mel torches still haven't really clicked with me playstyle-wise but I'm loving the pink aura memes

[long hemlock]

ur used to eos thats why

playing mel torches is like anti eos playstyle lmao

[tall notch]

I know how to build them and have seen the damage first-hand but I'm not comfortable hugging enemies in h2, especially without stagger

[plain fossil]

anyway as long as mel axe, circe and moros are in the game every other aspect is hard locked out of bottom 3
thank you for coming to my ted talk

[karmic gust]

fr, the only way i think would make em playable to me is dem special

[timber pawn]

Moros is the only aspect I think is just absolute dog current state.

[plain fossil]

i play mel torches with dem special most of the time

[karmic gust]

i havent tried tho it sounds really good and fun

[plain fossil]

ppl here really love pink aura stuff but if u click aph room 1 on high fear u die in erebus a lot, or at least i do

i am a cold storage enjoyer

[tall notch]

PINK AURA

[karmic gust]

do they? i think its just cause it looks meme-y

[tall notch]

If you die in Erebus the aura simply wasn't pink enough 😔

[sudden belfry]

yeahhh i dont think i care for eos that much
maybe if i watch a video on how someone else uses it

[karmic gust]

hm, actually, do heartbreak projectiles hitstun?

[long hemlock]

eos is goated once u understand it, idk there will be a moment where it just clicks

its one of the easiest 32s for me now

[karmic gust]

there was a haelian vid yesterday i think, super fun run

[tall notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CD40s-zK-w
Eos. Gaming.

[long hemlock]

pretty consistent too almost never have to reset

[sudden belfry]

ooh ill watch that in a bit

[civic ocean]

idk guys this seismic hammer build is dealing a toooon of damage

[plain fossil]

lul like i said it feels good early

then cerberus is pain and hades is horrendous

[civic ocean]

idk I just did like a 13 damage cerberus and it was pretty easy and I even bricked my mana with ionic and only have like 10 mana

[plain fossil]

rooms are pretty much always fine but i did skip the tartarus miniboss due to being out of boons

[timber pawn]

What does seismic do

[plain fossil]

whats ur vow setup

[civic ocean]

heph pos duo I think it might be bugged TBH

just on a 12 test run atm but I think this does 32 easy

[plain fossil]

seismic is the poseidon heph duo

[ashen timber]

Makes Poseidon's omega cast do a heph slam also for more damage

[zenith bolt]

i think it's 500 base damage?

[timber pawn]

Ah right

[plain fossil]

shrug i had the same setup with vent etc it didnt do anything interesting and u have to do chronos without a cast up so u get charged a lot

[long hemlock]

i only remember it from duo boon proph

[timber pawn]

Geyser ring seems busted in a bad way in a lot of cases lol

[civic ocean]

I might be wrong but I think Geyser Ring is over-writing Moon's damage increase

[zenith bolt]

net-zero damage gain lfg

[plain fossil]

i think it does this as well yes

[timber pawn]

Ya thats one of the issues it has lol

[plain fossil]

u only get baseline white damage when ur cast goes off as far as i could see

[timber pawn]

I'm trying to think of other silly builds. I think I peaked with Wrong Charon

[zenith bolt]

no geyser ring - 325 with moon
yes geyser ring - 200... with moon...

what the hell

[tall notch]

I'm calling it the Charon't axe

[timber pawn]

My favorite part of the run was taking a chaos curse for attack % damage that hurt me when I special

[plain fossil]

im going to try and do a 32 with zero mana torches tonight i think

[timber pawn]

Braver than me. What's the plan?

[plain fossil]

that is suitably meme

[zenith bolt]

beyond voluntarily torturing yourself, why?

[warped harness]

just did a medea blitz run, i don't really feel the power from blitz honestly

[plain fossil]

i almost got there on 24 last night

[tall notch]

Oh yeah if you want a dumb build play 0 mana Eos. Passion Dash, Zeus chain lightning and either blitz or pos on attack

[timber pawn]

Really? It's the current speedrun strat

[warped harness]

maybe i just built it wrong? idk

#h2-victory-boasting message this is what i ran

[timber pawn]

From what I understand it's blitz on special, that might have been the issue

Because of order of operations, blitz on special procs immediately

[warped harness]

oh really?

ok, definitely will try next time

[timber pawn]

I guess the the special hits first then the attacks, so that might make a diff

[warped harness]

i wanna give blitz a chance bc i knock on it so often

[timber pawn]

Also special blitz is a bigger number and scales a bit harder

[warped harness]

aphro/hera for the attack?

[timber pawn]

Ya I believe so, aphro is going to be better...i think. Demeter also a good option

Given how dangerous medea is, freezing stuff is nice

[warped harness]

aphro would pump out a good amount of damage

rare aphro is double the base

[timber pawn]

Ya at lower fear aphro probably the move

The speedrun uses antler, so a lot of damage comes from there after erebus. But ignoring that, aphro probably better

[civic ocean]

yeah idk Seismic seems 32 viable you just have to tweak it I think

Did 40% Chronos relatively easily but it did take a while

[warped harness]

seismic is that the pos/heph duo?

[civic ocean]

I think the biggest problem with the build as I described it is that it is extremely buggy and you don't get Moon or Vent from Seismic Hammer

Which seems like it will be fixed

[zenith bolt]

im never taking this chaos curse again dude https://i.imgur.com/GhvWaUq.jpeg

[warped harness]

wallahi

[civic ocean]

I think if you go global mods geyser + heph is really good but I kinda forgot to do that

honestly though idk maybe you feel the same way @timber pawn but maybe a lot of this stuff is working because I just have the Chronos fight on download now

[long hemlock]

chronos is just way too easy to zone in phase 1 for him ever to be truly dangerous imo

under the assumption u play alot

obv

[civic ocean]

Yeah I think unless you are under immense time pressure to kill Chronos P1 quickly he's pretty easy to just kinda kite into your casts and then hit when he's between moves or doing something with a long startup

It's when u have to rush him down that the balls and bubbles and charges are pretty annoying

I like it - really everything in Hades 2 is a lot easier to accomplish than in Hades 1 if you just slow down and play precisely, which fits the narrative differences between Melinoe and Zagreus. Very cool storytelling.

[timber pawn]

Ya p1 is usually okay, depending on how impatient I'm playing

[long hemlock]

considering its the literal 1st early access pass im pretty happy with how hades 2 has turned out so far

[timber pawn]

Ya under the circumstances it's in incredible shape. And having like a year to continue refining? It's gonna be so good

[graceful dragon]

I just keep on getting hit whenever Chronos throws his scythe. Something about it always makes me mess up my dodge.

Comparing Hades 1 early access to Hades 2 is massive

[timber pawn]

I think I've killed chronos close to 100 times and if I get a run where he boomerangs a lot, I'm still gonna eat a lot of them lol

[graceful dragon]

Melinoe might be the slow methodical witch unlike speedy Zag, but damn do I miss having multiple dodges sometimes.

[long hemlock]

idk i enjoy the hades 2 playstyle way more, theres just more going on

hades 1 is way more unga bunga

[civic ocean]

I'm starting to get to the point with P2 where unless he cheats I can kinda just sit in pockets and kill him now

I think Hades 1 suits the narrative of the game super well with how Zagreus is mostly making things up as he goes along

that game encourages improvisation, quick thinking, reflexes, etc

[dusty sapphire]

got blammod by approval process

[civic ocean]

Hades 2 feels way more methodical, planning-friendly, and precise

[timber pawn]

Ya I've found myself gunning for times so I tend to go for riskier approach windows but if I truly turned off the timer, I imagine it'd be fine

[long hemlock]

im a pretty big cast enjoyer

[civic ocean]

Casts feel broken TBH

[long hemlock]

they could of really messed up adding that

[timber pawn]

Cast is great, got my first win with a hestia fireball cast thing

[long hemlock]

theres alot of balance tuning to be done for sure

[civic ocean]

Not like super duper broken but like once you know what ur doing they're so so so so good

[timber pawn]

East since you have me tracking stuff now, my 32 all weapons igt total is sub 80m now

[zenith bolt]

damn i think i just got chronos hitless thanks to charon

iframed two instakills even though i didnt really need to

very pretty damage suffered chart https://i.imgur.com/kxfIRGx.png

[civic ocean]

what does the skull mean

[zenith bolt]

elite enemies (those with armor)

[civic ocean]

oh neat

[earnest fox]

Gonna be honest Im not good at playing videos games at all but I beat hades and love the game I find hades 2 way harder personally

[plain fossil]

sry i got distracted. The plan is spam zeus special on zero mana + chainlightning prime + heph with duo + demeter ranged cast and coarse grit + zeus demeter duo, probably no cyclone in order to make hitting coarse grit easier

[long hemlock]

its just different

ull get used to it

[earnest fox]

Yeah it is! I love both so much I can’t put the game down lol

[civic ocean]

The only advice I would give is what I posted in feedback which is to like slooooow down and play really deliberately, I think people have carried over habits from Hades 1 that make certain enemies and fights seem really hard

[timber pawn]

Gotcha, spirit surge from Zeus could be nice for add clear too

[ashen timber]

Does Knuckle Bones stack with dad's 30% hp cut? (i may be wrong with the exact %, but the question remains)

[plain fossil]

ye u do get vent from heph sprint tho which i think is probably required on this kind of build or else u just dont have the damage atm

[ashen timber]

or does one replace the other?

[plain fossil]

ye i had to forsaking it last run but i believe in rng tonight

[timber pawn]

They sort of cancel each other out because the ly both finish his first phase afaik. So he'll get hit by one and go invuln

[zenith bolt]

dad's is 20%

[civic ocean]

I did it with heph attack but heph special probably better on staff for more dmg

regardless I don't think it's thaaaaat good if Seismic Hammer doesn't trigger vent, it can still work as a global modifier build

[plain fossil]

personally i found the biggest problem is that u dont do any damage on chronos and u have to do the fight with no cast

[civic ocean]

I'll ask Choco tomorrow but I belieeeeeve Chronos does the second summon at 33% so you only lose about 2%

[plain fossil]

maybe u guys are good enough to do 40% speed 32f chronos with no cast but im not lul

[zenith bolt]

chronos does subphases at intervals of 25% in phase 1

[civic ocean]

I was doing Volc Strike into Zeus Special before Vent popped so that the Vent blast was dealing 50% more dmg because of Origination and hitting him for like 800

[plain fossil]

ye ok i mean thats fine but then what is geyser ring doing lul

[civic ocean]

ah okay so u lose 10% then if you take knuckle bones and grudge

[civic ocean]

Geyser ring is just constantly hitting him for 500 or so in the meantime

and occasionally the extra 500 from Shammer

[zenith bolt]

finally, an excuse to claw this out of my notes

• 100% HP: Fight starts with 6 Satyr Vierophants and Chronos.

• 75% HP: Chronos becomes invulnerable and does a scripted close-range projectile attack. 6 more Satyr Vierophants spawn. Less enemies are spawned if banners or previous minions are still alive.

• 50% HP: Chronos briefly becomes invulnerable, and begins attacking more frequently.

• 25% HP: Chronos becomes invulnerable and does a scripted close-range projectile attack. 2 Elite Satyr Vierophants, 2 Elite Goldwraiths, or 2 Elite Satyr Hoplites spawn. Less enemies are spawned if banners or previous minions are still alive

• 0% HP: Chronos becomes invulnerable and restores all (not actually all, phase 2 is 16000 HP instead of phase 1's 20000) of his health. The arena changes to become circular.

• 100% HP: Chronos immediately starts with an instant-kill attack.

• 50% HP: Chronos becomes invulnerable and does a scripted close-range projectile attack. 12 Tempus spawn from the top of the arena, then clockwise, on the numbered circles around the arena. Chronos begins attacking more frequently, as he did in the first phase.

[plain fossil]

ye i mean its what like 2 seconds base to charge an omega cast? something like this? too much pain for 400-500 damage

[civic ocean]

I didn't have the dmg though mostly because I screwed up and took Blackened Fleece and Moon and Cast DMG but I am pretty sure you're just meant to take global DMG% to raise the dmg of Geyser, Shammer, Blasts and Vent

[plain fossil]

maybe its better with zeus ranged cast i was running hestia and u cant charge a new cast in the travel time of the projectile

[civic ocean]

I also took Ionic Gain because I forgot I kept arrogance on

dang does that gain suck big time lmao

[zenith bolt]

ionic gain bottom 1 fr

this boon is so ass 🔥

[plain fossil]

man i messed up vow of forsaking and clicked poseidon when the only boon left was fluid gain

[civic ocean]

avoid the bubbles

[plain fossil]

u might think ionic gain is bad but fluid gain when ur 99% cast build is uh

[civic ocean]

I think Thursday I will test out the blast build

[plain fossil]

so i had to click wheel for tartarus and then i got a hestia boon to sac it back to cast anyway lul

im not going back to blast unless it gets changed i did not have a good time and i say that as someone who plays clown builds a lot lul

[zenith bolt]

i still think they should buff vent by either a) making the timer not reset when you use blast effects or b) making the vent blast happen immediately if a blast happens while vent is active

[civic ocean]

I guess my thing now is kinda takin stuff that is clowny and taking it as far as I can

[bleak night]

3 more aspects to 32

[zenith bolt]

as it stands, leaning into heph's stuff "too much" makes vent useless 🔥

[bleak night]

then I can probably return to testing builds

[plain fossil]

speaking of clown builds this game needs the h1 zeus boon that gives ur chain lightning more bounces

[zenith bolt]

i think master conductor does that unless im tripping

[tired fulcrum]

I think it just lets it bounce to you and give stacking damag

[zenith bolt]

i know the bounce to you part (bc that's bugged and deletes all of your lovers charges 💔)

[civic ocean]

Can you check something for me real quick in the mod

[zenith bolt]

rip https://i.imgur.com/cME4Vc5.png

[plain fossil]

it just gives more damage per bounce yeah

[zenith bolt]

on god zeus literally has one good duo

[civic ocean]

At least 2!

[plain fossil]

wait what really i didnt know that

[tired fulcrum]

Test wut

[zenith bolt]

i refuse to acknowledge anything other than glorious disaster

[civic ocean]

Can you turn on Tall Order from Hermes and Geyser Ring + Seismic Hammer from Heph+Poseidon and see if the Seismic Hammer blast is affected by the %dmg increase

[civic ocean]

Thermal D is pretty goodge

[tired fulcrum]

Thats very specific

[zenith bolt]

if only because it happens to be the two gods that make up aq scorch

[civic ocean]

Doesnt have to be tall order - any global dmg% modifier

[tired fulcrum]

Then just say furies lol

[civic ocean]

furies doesn't work

[zenith bolt]

geyser ring insta explodes so no furies i think

[tired fulcrum]

Geyser moment

[civic ocean]

The blast specifically happens after geyser ye

[plain fossil]

apocalyptic storm is also a very good duo btw its just tied to blitz which has issues atm

[wild pine]

Lion Fang seems easiest

[civic ocean]

Lion Fan or very early Discordant Bell

[zenith bolt]

lion fang works in testing grounds

[civic ocean]

oh u meant for testing ye

[timber pawn]

What's the duo that makes omega cast stronger every cast? I forget which two gods

[plain fossil]

apollo demeter

[zenith bolt]

torrential downpour and it's apollo demeter

[civic ocean]

Sadly I don't think that works on Shammer either

[zenith bolt]

these requirements https://i.imgur.com/F73QiaT.png

[timber pawn]

Ah right. I need to try that for my stupid charon

So lucid gain, frigid sprint I guess

[zenith bolt]

lucid gain is terrible on charon i think

[timber pawn]

Lucid is good for my setup

[wild pine]

He's doing a weird local climate storm ring setup

[timber pawn]

You're running local climate, ya haha

[tired fulcrum]

It works

[civic ocean]

It's not very good for ur stupid charon build because it makes ur cast cost 5 mana more every time

[wild pine]

But with Charon it lasts twice as long so the cost shouldn't stack that high

[timber pawn]

Stack enough mp and it might be fine? Maybe.

[wild pine]

of course that also means the damage can't stack that fast

[plain fossil]

ye i mean how long are our fights supposed to be here lul

[zenith bolt]

does seismic hammer + geyser ring proc slip and vent at once?

[timber pawn]

https://youtu.be/D-ML2lJBQ1M?si=haQ-c9_c_HWkopHI

[plain fossil]

geyser ring doesnt proc slip

[civic ocean]

I just found out that Shammer doesn't proc vent at all

[zenith bolt]

truly the most burger-flipper of the casts

[timber pawn]

Ya geyser is in a bad spot atm

[zenith bolt]

actual dollar tree cast

[civic ocean]

But I think there's two builds where it kinda pops off

[zenith bolt]

outright nerfs your damage with moon, doesn't proc slip, doesn't proc vent with seismic hammer, what does bro do

[civic ocean]

I know Mynt has been labbing Geyser a bit and I'm kinda interested in how fast it pumps dmg out

[wild pine]

I mean, even without benefitting from Moon it's still better DPS if you can channel repeatedly, right?

[zenith bolt]

well compared to other omega cast boons it's not as set-and-forget

[civic ocean]

So the upside is

If it won't give me Origination

And it won't synergize with Moon

I can run Artificer!

[thorny widget]

When I unlocked the Oath I immediately turned on the time Vow to 7 minutes like Hades 1 and ran up for my next surface run. Biiiig mistake

[zenith bolt]

silver linings i suppose?

[timber pawn]

Ya timer isn't tuned super well for surface atm

[thorny widget]

Any tips for the time Vow on the surface? The Underworld doesn't feel too bad, but I struggle to get good times for topside

[zenith bolt]

does seismic hammer benefit from +% omega damage/+% cast damage?

[plain fossil]

bro makes u play hades without a cast

[civic ocean]

nah it's only % dmg increases

[zenith bolt]

this duo so ass 😭

a whopping 33 dps

[civic ocean]

It's definitely not as good as it could be

[tired fulcrum]

Doesnt poseidon cast work with moon tho

[plain fossil]

hey look its scorch at home

[civic ocean]

I don't know, I don't think so?

[zenith bolt]

it doesnt, i tried like 20 minutes ago

[bleak night]

sadly Poseidon cast is mid for anything atm

[zenith bolt]

ok more like an hour

[plain fossil]

is moon the crit or the +dmg? because it might work with crit but it doesnt work with the +damage

[zenith bolt]

moon is +100 power to omega cast explode

[tired fulcrum]

It works for me. Not furies or charon tho

[bleak night]

I managed to get the perfect Charon setup for it yesterday and it still felt kinda inferior to a patched together Apollo Omega Cast

Like, being able to detonate 2 Geyser Rings is fun but I wish it was better

[wise nest]

They saw what beowulf did and vowed never again

[plain fossil]

we're discussing the full meme actually-channel-omega-cast-and-drop-it-on-people poseidon build

[bleak night]

Ah

[cursive ruin]

I feel like heph blast stuff is just to get more dmg without too much upgrades.. its just like a secondary dmg source

[wise nest]

Nevermind that beo had like 15 things going for it that made it turbo op and it wasn't just poseidon cast

[plain fossil]

which i tried yesterday and found horrendous and east tried 10 minutes ago and apparently kinda liked?

[bleak night]

I really wanted this build to be good but it's kinda bad, sadly. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1245035363555213363/Geyser_Ring_Charon.mp4?ex=6657f1ca&is=6656a04a&hm=980a1cac8d5c9f3a948a6b9b57b10dd333d8555500157c73da760f744bdec05a&

[zenith bolt]

geyser ring with sorceress is probably not the most horrendous way of doing damage? have fun on grandpa though

[plain fossil]

i took literally 700 damage from chronos over idk 5+ minutes and died

[zenith bolt]

250 damage
this is literally just outright worse than not having geyser ring

[tired fulcrum]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1164101586138710037/1245239795140137032/Hades_II_2024-05-28_21-57-21.mp4?ex=6658076e&is=6656b5ee&hm=fd98827f6f082544f462e1826ef52acda9149794c35b01d40f894380a93485f9&

charon does nothing for geyser ring

[bleak night]

yeah

[civic ocean]

Okay so I think where it would shine is

4 god build - heph+Pos+dem+aph

Your offensive boons are Volc Flourish, Vent, Geyser Ring and Shammer

Then you seek out Uncanny Fort, Life Aff, Double Up, Plent Fort and Hearty Appetite, get to like 500 HP and make all of the above offensive boons deal like 50% more damage

[zenith bolt]

that's a lot of work for like 12 dps

[tired fulcrum]

Also its 250 because its 150 base + 100 from moon. Moon does work

[cursive ruin]

How do you get that chaos symbol there? Do all the chaos trials?

[tired fulcrum]

Totally not modded

[zenith bolt]

moon works but you still lose damage relative to not having it which feels weird to me

would it be so broken if it just added damage and made it instant? idk

[civic ocean]

if you pull it off and get like one dmg% boon and bring Lion Fang to Chronos I think one Volc Flourish and Vent deals like almost 2k dmg to chronos which seems good

[zenith bolt]

hmm ok

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah because you dont get the +30 from furies or +30 from charon. Boonless cast gets both benefits when exploded so you deal 400

[bleak night]

Gift him

[plain fossil]

alright so when the 10 things wrong with geyser ring get fixed im in again till then no thanks lul

[civic ocean]

What other ways can you get dmg% increases

[zenith bolt]

uncommon grace is a global damage % i believe?

[tired fulcrum]

The funniest part is that after all the other bugs poseidon cast doesnt even get its ranged increased by charon

[civic ocean]

Disco bell might not actually be as bad as I thought hmmmmmmge

okay okay

[zenith bolt]

i would love it if eris keepsake was like

You deal +30/40/50/60% more damage and take 60/80/100/120% more damage
or something like that

im not holding this thing for the entire run to get a grand total of 30% damage bonus with a downside 😭

[civic ocean]

woaaaah Hera Poseidon is actually a tooooon of dmg%

[bleak night]

money stacker

[civic ocean]

You get the rarity stuff, easy origination, money stacker with HAHA YES

[zenith bolt]

isnt golden rule bugged rn and actually flat damage? or something like that

i remember that being mentioned here

[timber pawn]

I've heard money stacking is bugged ya

Haelian tried a mel staff geyser money run I think

[civic ocean]

@tired fulcrum does Golden Rule make Seismic Hammer's blast deal more damage

even if it's flat if I'm getting that ding on every dong, even the vents and heph blasts, that is sick

[tired fulcrum]

Im pretty sure it only affects attack and special

[plain fossil]

RUINED AGAIN LULW

[civic ocean]

ah lame so don't take money stacker

[tired fulcrum]

Also its flat damage

[civic ocean]

BUT STILL the rarity thing is based for blasts and geyser

[tired fulcrum]

Actual 5 flat per 100 gold not 5%

[civic ocean]

also born gain seems based on geyser ring

[plain fossil]

Idk if its the kind of build that really gets that much advantage out of born gain but hey i mean its never bad right

Like if u take the hermes boon it doesnt cost much mana

[civic ocean]

OKAY SO THE BUILD IS

Heph start
Poseidon Hera support

IF all 3 by end of Erebus go Disco Bell

If not assemble and take Lion Fang to Tartarus

Get as much %dmg boons as possible, take Origination and Moon and drop Furies + Runner for Death

Actually nah Death stinky keep it

[tired fulcrum]

Actually nvm it affects cast

[civic ocean]

SAVED

but its flat so it still sounds bad

[plain fossil]

Success, +100 power to ur 300 base damage cast thats like a whole ass arcana card for the low cost of 2000 gold

[zenith bolt]

if they fix/make golden rule actually % then it'll be one of the most broken duos

[tired fulcrum]

5 flat damage is broken tho

[zenith bolt]

true

[plain fossil]

I mean 5 flat is way way way better than 5% except in this one exact meme case lul

[civic ocean]

it doesn't get amped does it

[tired fulcrum]

No

[zenith bolt]

i cant imagine 5 flat is intended but 5% would still be one of the best duos

[civic ocean]

like if I have a global dmg% increase it doesn't affect the extra damage from Golden rule?

[plain fossil]

Like theres not that many builds which get more than 100 base damage per single hit before % increases

[tired fulcrum]

No

[plain fossil]

And thats the breakpoint right

[civic ocean]

Okay so it's optional then partially because Arrogance makes double duos super hard

[tired fulcrum]

Its legit hoarding slash but alsl affects special and cast

[civic ocean]

This actually sounds like...reasonable imma test it

[plain fossil]

U dont have to click double arrogance for 32 fwiw

[civic ocean]

3 fear is a lot id rather just not take money stacker

[tired fulcrum]

Wait golden rule affects apollo damage lmfao

[civic ocean]

wait what

[plain fossil]

Cute, its like bad air quality

[tired fulcrum]

Lemme test a bit more maybe im trolling

[civic ocean]

does every tick do flat dmg

[zenith bolt]

new build just dropped, Breaking The Game Entirely

[tired fulcrum]

Seems like it

[civic ocean]

jesus

[zenith bolt]

i love my 18000 damage per charon nuke

[plain fossil]

Although i guess if ur at 2k gold by chronos its cute right

[zenith bolt]

i mean you get like 1k in tartarus minimum just playing the game

[plain fossil]

+100 base damage that doesnt scale with anything p good

[tired fulcrum]

I mean thatd be +1500 dmg a cast

[civic ocean]

Can you also check Storm Ring

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah it affects zeus and dem cast

[civic ocean]

Just Arctic Ring, or Gale Force too?

[tired fulcrum]

Not cyclones

[civic ocean]

dang, Tyler right again

[bleak night]

seems impossible, but Hearty Appetite + Golden Rule would be so fun

[civic ocean]

So Charon

Demeter start

Poseidon Hera after

Get Arctic Ring + Sworn Strike + HAHA YES + money worth more + Golden Rule + Born Gain

Local Climate

Manually Omega Cast on yourself, you freeze everything, you spin, you kill everything, both your cast pulses and your attack are dealing money damage, ANd you can probably get coarse grit

@timber pawn this is the build ^

[bleak night]

does the +5 power /100 gold work on Cyclone ?

[zenith bolt]

.

[bleak night]

imagine if it did, sad

[plain fossil]

that does sound good but i would point out that despite how it looks demeter doesnt actually hit that fast

its 0.5 pretty sure

[umbral tangle]

this run is going way better

had like a total of around 300hp by hecate

[civic ocean]

yeah this is uhh

insanely good

[bleak night]

what're you doing? The money stack + Demeter Local Climate on Charon ?

[civic ocean]

yeah chronos is a little hairy when you have to get close but it deals mondo dmg

[near yacht]

I wanna get into speedrunning but I cant find anything on the best arcana setup for it? anyone here got anything?

[civic ocean]

also I cannot confirm for sure but I am reasonably sure that Breaker Sprint also gains the benefits of Golden Rule

I was dealing 360 dmg a wave

from 160 base

[plain fossil]

That doesnt shock me, but its a pretty cool interaction nonetheless

[civic ocean]

so yeah that was fun and I suck at fighting chronos up close still but I think that can win at 32

[plain fossil]

i mean it sounds much more efficient than geyser ring lmao

i do wonder whether this is one of the builds where ur supposed to splash fourth god for ranged cast tho

[icy axle]

I wanna try a build focused on scorch. Which weapon do you think would be best?

[wise nest]

momus 😔

[icy axle]

Man, momus is the answer to everything

[bleak stag]

how do you build the aphrodite blender?

[wise nest]

Unfortunately it's the easiest way to spam lots of small hits which scorch loves

[wise nest]

aphrodite special on mel torches, get the heartthrob boon, profit

[bleak stag]

just started on surface with epic special

thats it?

[plain fossil]

u also want the apollo legendary and apollo aph duo

[icy axle]

Scorch is so, SO bad

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml read Air Fryer Skull

That is the best Scorch build in the game 100% I feel

[plain fossil]

third god is flex, a lot of people like demeter some people like heph

i dont think scorch is good on weapons at all ngl

[bleak stag]

so far i've got born gain for mana, hermes speed on attack, clean helix, and the 2 main boons

[plain fossil]

its so undertuned

[bleak night]

Dem and Heph are so good as support

[bleak stag]

i wish hestia was better gameplay wise i love her design

[plain fossil]

ive had a lot more success with hestia cast than on any weapon

[bleak night]

hopefully they buff since people are complaining a fair bit

[icy axle]

what's the point of using skull and scorch? How do you ramp it up?

[plain fossil]

i dont actually hate the rate at which scorch does dps, its very low but u get to run in circles offscreen so its kind of balanced. I hate that scorch application is so undertuned that u dont actually get to run in circles offscreen because it doesnt stack high enough

like how does it make sense that poseidon special does more total damage per hit than hestia special and does it all at once

there is no world where thats balanced

[zenith bolt]

i've done it, i've rolled the worst possible hex pool https://i.imgur.com/KwA0mWu.jpeg

[plain fossil]

I like wolf howl!

Its got iframes and no windup

[bleak night]

Wolf Howl is crescent tho

[slate pecan]

I liked wolf howl too when I was still using hexes. With a couple of paths of stars it could do DMG 4 times and grant invul

[bleak night]

so it'll be harder to reach the nodes you want

[plain fossil]

Yea sure but like crescent laser would be worse

[slate pecan]

True

1200 DMG every 80 Magicka spent isn't so bad

As crescent I guess you could just take it and aim for the invul alone

[civic ocean]

As it currently stands, Scorch deals such weak DPS that it's not really viable

You use Zeus' Air Quality infusion to multiplicatively scale scorch's damage, and you take skull for the skull blasts to spread aoe scorch as well as stack it up

Persephone in particular is ideal because she powers up Storm Ring, which is a great starting boon, and her max glory omega special is the best distributor of Thermal Dynamics in the game atm

[zenith bolt]

https://i.imgur.com/Ugn3M5D.png ok it was because it was already activated that it didnt get improved before

so this is the correct view of every keepsake that can be upgraded by cherished heirloom https://i.imgur.com/Rq8Pbtl.png

[plain fossil]

Good to know if i ever misclick

[zenith bolt]

had a sick run but failed to iframe instakill and got fleeced by demeter the whole run https://i.imgur.com/uHZiZ8Y.jpeg

well hera too, where's my mf infusions

18 second mint condition is my pride and joy

[bleak night]

What's the timer on the Droplet at rank 4 ?

[zenith bolt]

350s

[bleak night]

ah, alr

[civic ocean]

Guess I try for Money Laundering at 32 for my axe build

[bleak night]

Is that the name for that build lol

[warped harness]

i really like the hex that revives an enemy, i know hexes arent great but its so silly watching the punchy enemy do like 15% of cerbies health bar in a single combo with no buffs

[zenith bolt]

been doing some thinking on how i'd rate the gods rn

(ordered)
great: poseidon, hera, demeter, chaos
good: hephaestus, apollo, hermes, aphrodite, artemis
underwhelming: zeus, hestia

[slate pecan]

Chaos is stressful

Maybe not so much on momus but on pan it's hard to get a curse that doesn't hurt much

[civic ocean]

They're all kinda good and some of it is personal preference. If you sort the main 8 by build inclusion rate for me it's:

3 - Aph, Hera, Dem
2 - Poseidon
1 - Heph, Zeus, Hestia, Apollo

But if you sort them by winrate from highest to lowest it's:

Hestia, Zeus, Poseidon
Apollo, Heph
Aph, Demeter, Hera

[zenith bolt]

fair enough

i think poseidon has high enough highs to justify being where he is on my list

[civic ocean]

So I conclude from that that I think Aph Hera and Dem are the most flexible and versatile of the gods, but I think don't do as well in dedicated builds as Hestia and Zeus - I think Air Fryer is just remarkably consistent for me atm and I don't play it on every weapon mostly out of boredom

And Poseidon is about as close to straight up overpowered as one can get

[zenith bolt]

i went back and forth on including chaos/hermes/artemis but i figured it was fine

mainly bc im a real chaos gambler

[civic ocean]

Yeah those are all pretty high mid to me, Chaos is definitely better than Hades 1 though chaos will get worse if other sources can give us cost reduction, regen, or channel reduction

[zenith bolt]

true

i dont think im ever disappointed by hermes and artemis is like at the very minimum a free room that doesnt count to timer + an extra boost

[bleak night]

list makes sense to me

Until Aphro gets some sort of indicator to say where Close-Up Damage is, I'm kinda just playing confused

small pink dash-outline on the ground would help

I also have this feeling that they'll give the ability to cut projectiles down to Athena if she does get added back, rather than deflecting

[zenith bolt]

let hestia have one thing

[slate pecan]

I'll sort them too but split into core (main DMG source) and support categories:

Core:
S: Poseidon, Aphrodite
A: Hera, Apollo
B: Demeter
C: Zeus, Hestia, Heph

Support:
S: Hera (if you need born gain, eng ring situationally), Demeter, Heph
A: Hestia, Aphro
B: Zeus, Apollo
C: Poseidon

Just my humble opinion based on my runs (mostly around 32 heat, pan, Artemis, momus, Charon, mel torches)

[bleak night]

o right, Soot Sprint

[plain fossil]

i have no words for how annoying asphodel is

[bleak night]

that's also pretty fair a list

[plain fossil]

asphodel can eat my ass all day

[bleak night]

You can just instalose it if the reward is minor for no penalty

[plain fossil]

oh can u? ok i will do that next time

[bleak night]

Yep

[civic ocean]

Yeah just tick it down to 0

[slate pecan]

Stay out of the circle

[zenith bolt]

you dont get whatever the reward would've been but you get to leave so that's the big thing

[bleak night]

just interact to start, then stay out of the circle for 5 seconds, you just move on instantly without the reward of the room

It's honestly a time save and I'm glad it happens to me now lol

unless it's a boon room I really want, in which case...

[civic ocean]

Im not happy when I reroll the room to the boon I want and then I get sent to hell literally

[bleak night]

speaking of encounters

When you try to unlock a sealed room in Oceanus, is that an encounter ?

[zenith bolt]

suffering time !!

[slate pecan]

I don't think so

[bleak night]

I remember just going for them all when levelling keepsakes, but idk if it really affected it in getting exp quicker

[civic ocean]

Speaking of suffering I am strongly considering discordant bell on money landering

[bleak night]

That thing needs some sort of change

[civic ocean]

I think it actually might be goodge

[bleak night]

make it balls to the wall +2% per encounter

[zenith bolt]

i think the real gripe i have is discordant bell wants you to hold it the whole run in a game that doesnt want you holding keepsakes the entire run

[civic ocean]

Yeah tbh it's probably only like 10% more than Lion Fang

[bleak night]

in H1, did your boosts disappear when you swapped out of Butterfly and Plume? Yes, right ?

[civic ocean]

Aye

[bleak night]

Because for some reason they kept that logic on Silken Sash

and any extra armour you stack up is also gone

[zenith bolt]

lol.

[slate pecan]

Bell % is way too low imo

[bleak night]

Yeah, I'd honestly appreciate 2%/enc since it's also a boost on damage taken. Just make it full send

[zenith bolt]

i mentioned this earlier but i wish it was just a thicc damage bonus + you get blessing of strife again

[slate pecan]

It could be rewarding when you try hitless runs but even then there are much better offensive keepsakes that aren't double edged

[zenith bolt]

30% damage in tartarus woo its almost like evil eye does this exact thing but better
or blackened fleece
or lion fang for most of the area

[merry flint]

Discordant Bell isn't as fun looking as Lambent Plume for a 'the longer you have the better you get' keepsake

[bleak night]

It really doesn't, yeah

[merry flint]

Plume also had that skill check of clearing a room

[bleak night]

I kinda wish there was an adaptive sort of keepsake that you're meant to stack from the beginning

[merry flint]

minor but it helped get into the GOTTA GO FAST mindset

[slate pecan]

I remember doing a 32 heat run in hAdes 1 with zag sword lambent plume and what was it express delivery Hermes boon? I loved it

[bleak night]

I forgot what Zag sword does

[merry flint]

I did my first 32 heat clear with Lambent Plume Zag Fists

[slate pecan]

Was my first and I think only 32

[bleak night]

also what Zag bow and shield do

[merry flint]

CANT CATCH ME GOTTA GO FAST

[slate pecan]

Iirc zag sword boosts speeds

[merry flint]

Zag Bow has crits

[zenith bolt]

zag sword is +move speed i think? zag shield is +power to attack/special, zag bow is crits

[slate pecan]

Bows I think passive critchance

I'm a simple zag aspects enjoyer

[warped harness]

15% crit yea

[slate pecan]

Rush delivery. It was bonus DMG based on bonus speed

[warped harness]

zag sword was attack and movepseed?

theres also nem aspect which was crit for landing special

it was one of the most consistent/best sword aspect

[merry flint]

EM Nemesis actually does her sword's gimmick before hitting you in her trial

[slate pecan]

Ah yes that one was fun too. It's nice to see Nem wield it

[zenith bolt]

rush delivery busted bc every +move speed is multiplicative in h1 iirc?

[past pewter]

yeah

[warped harness]

poseidon was alright and arthur was goofy but i found it to be really fun

[past pewter]

even if it wasn’t multiplicative it would still be a hell of a lot of damage

100% global is op

[slate pecan]

Especially when you also hit faster already

[tired fulcrum]

Nothing

[past pewter]

Zag sword gets better with RD so it’s op

[bleak night]

I'll go do an Eos and Artemis run, then I'll do the last 32 on Mel Staff

[chilly gulch]

Can you only beat karibas once?

[zenith bolt]

charybdis? no, she appears randomly on rift of thessaly

sometimes she'll be there and sometimes not

[fierce wagon]

Man, this build vaporizes

https://imgur.com/a/G1ilGmA.jpeg

[tired fulcrum]

Oh no its the steam scam

[tired fulcrum]

Steam doesnt count as a curse and it removes slip so if you have origination it lowers your overall dps

[fierce wagon]

Well, i only used omega cast and special

It was more than enough

Hitting with attack then special didn't seem reasonable

You still make more damage just spamming special

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah usually youd go hestia cast and avoid the duo

Taking the time to omega with zeus is also dps loss

[fierce wagon]

Not really, the time is slowed during cast and omega zeus will always be better than hestia

She has the worst boons right after Hera

It so happened that i got her boons

I had a lot of fun during this run

[tired fulcrum]

Hestia cast doesnt require you to omega, also it procs a curse for origination which results in much more damage. Also chronos doesnt get timeslowed

[fierce wagon]

Could make the speedrun faster but i wanted to get as overpowered as possible in tartarus

[fierce wagon]

Oh yeah, you are right about Chronos. I tend to forget about it. And i don't have the origination card activated so you know

I prefer to activate cards that minimalize the flaws of randomization, like to have more rare and epic boons.

[proven orbit]

Origination is fairly low on my priority list (partially because I haven't worked out many routine/consistent ways to reach it), but something like huntress to help overall and offset the early game slog is invaluable imo

[tired fulcrum]

Its pretty easy to get up on momus since you already have poseidon

[warped harness]

like hestia as long as you avoid the duo boon

every god has a curse in this game

[sudden belfry]

which weapon would yall say is the best for a white antler/armor heavy build
would any work?

[proven orbit]

I can't really think of weapons that favor the playstyle more because antler applies to just about any damage and armor is just there

[bleak night]

all aspects on 32 are done~

[tall notch]

In my totally unbiased opinion, Eos is a great antler user. You can play it really safe with all the movement and the antler DPS will compensate for a defensive god pool

[split igloo]

An absolute hero

[bleak night]

back to spamming my dumb weapon

[tender anvil]

What’s the most reliable axe aspect at 40? Charon seems to require early Sudden Cleaver (=many resets), Thanatos is nice but a bit slow (demeter helps, I guess), while Meli is a bit safer, while lacking damage. Trying to decide which one to push.

[bleak night]

You can use Than and go do either

• mixed / for two types of damage
• for Omega Cast with defensive support
• 

I don't recommend Mel unless you wanna bank on hammers for a Big Chop run, and even then I can't really recommend it

Charon on 40 is fine, but, as you said, you need Sudden Cleaver

[tender anvil]

Cheers! In the aph/zeus version, does zeus go on the omega cast?

[tall notch]

Triple earth is such a universal high fear god pool it seems like

[bleak night]

Yep

If you go Zeus on Cast, expect to run around a lot more than usual, compared to standing your ground when playing Dem on Cast

[tender anvil]

3 out of 4 of my 40’s were on triple earth (other was just Momus wackiness), want to try something else

[bleak night]

Aphro for Attack and Zeus on Cast should be a different flavour of high fear then, in that case

I've tried it, but I did struggle with the lack of options when surrounded by enemies

You can spin, sure, but I usually prefer to freeze them before I do

[tall notch]

I wonder if they'll nerf the earth stack. It seems excessive for low difficulty stuff (and in there you might actually want more offense) but when things hit hard it's so valuable

[bleak night]

idt they balance around high Fears, so 6 Earth on low Fear runs is still kinda steep for most people

[tender anvil]

Yeah, just afraid of it being prone to deaths. Tripple earth is so good due to being the most defensive combo, with Spiteful/Antler fulfilling damage requirements

[bleak night]

it's just too good, yeah

[split igloo]

When can I unlock weapon aspects? I made a new save and I can't recall how to unlock them as early as possible

[bleak night]

wonder how they'll make water better

[bleak night]

iirc it was having all weapons unlocked, having access to Chaos Trials and beating Hecate a few times

[tall notch]

It could be made better by the remaining gods having some water stuff

[bleak night]

You think they'll have 3 infusions per element by the end ?

because Earth atm kinda mogs the others

[tall notch]

I feel like Dio will have a water infusion and Ares will have a fire infusion

Assuming we're getting both

[tender anvil]

Well, Hera infusion is kinda crap to be fair, especially with the priming vow

[split igloo]

Athena with light infusion?

[bleak night]

Athena will have probably Air

[bleak night]

The boons upgraded by that don't prime your mp iirc

Kinda like Bridal Glow and Rare Crop

[split igloo]

I actually don't know if the swirly icon is light or air.

[bleak night]

It's Air, yeah.

[split igloo]

Dang mb

[tall notch]

They don't but if you get it early every boon you get from that point onward is rare

[bleak night]

oh til

though do you really want a non-Earth boon from Hera that early on

since you're trying to stack

[tall notch]

I've bricked my mana once by taking that infusion in Oceanus

[plain fossil]

Nerfing/adjusting coarse grit to 5E/20 damage wouldnt be a bad change imo

[bleak night]

That's not bad, yeah.

[tender anvil]

I may be wrong, but I think I remember priming jumping a lot when picking Hera infusion. Will check again.

[plain fossil]

Also i just learned never to click echo stone keepsake with zeus in ur pool unless u alrdy deleted the gain

[tall notch]

That keepsake is just very risky in general

[bleak night]

lmk your findings pls

[tall notch]

The rarify from picking the infusion up definitely doesn't prime

[violet dome]

I dont know where to write this so sorry if this is not the place. I am missing curse from chaos barren I cant find it. Do I need to do something?

[tall notch]

I believe it's just very rare

Seen it once and I have 600+ nights

[tender anvil]

Someone mentioned yesterday that it can only appear starting from second chaos boon

So the strat to get it seems to be to load up on rerolls, and start using them specifically on chaos gates starting from the second. Haven’t gotten it myself yet.

[violet dome]

jesus I only have 200 😄 well time to grind. Thank you

[bleak night]

I've only found Barren twice

[tall notch]

I never went out of my way to grind it, I just take every chaos and it showed up at some point

[bleak night]

not in a high fear run, I hope

[proven orbit]

every run is high fear run if you maxed out the irl fear

[bleak night]

That's one way to look at it, yeah

[proven orbit]

Reminds me of yesterdays run where I Iost 2 DDs in erebus and was almost ready to quit until echo saved the run with survive

[paper tapir]

does engraved pin work on every death defiance?

[bleak night]

nope, it works once every encounter

it's like Stubborn Defiance from the first game

[paper tapir]

damn... what would u recommend for final encounter tho

[bleak night]

do you need something defensive ?

[paper tapir]

yes

[plain fossil]

For defensive moros pin is still fine, skeleton tooth is also fine

[bleak night]

I almost always just run offensive stuff like Blackened Fleece, Lion Fang and Metallic Drop. You can use Lucky Tooth for defensive if you think you need the raw HP rather than the 10 seconds of being able to hit Chronos without worry

[paper tapir]

i was thinking knuckle bones but idk if "guardians" meant bosses too

[bleak night]

Guardians are bosses, yes.

[plain fossil]

Yes it does, knuckle bones is kinda mid but it does work

[paper tapir]

my lion fang is 1* lmao

[proven orbit]

knuckle bones is a-ok but chronos having a risk to oneshot you and having 2 phases to diminish keepsake damage done devalues it a lot

[plain fossil]

Fleece is great if u need something offensive and is my go-to

[bleak night]

best level that up on your own time in a fun run, since it's kinda trash at 1

[proven orbit]

experimental hammer can be interesting if you don't have any ruining hammers available

[bleak night]

probably the worst thing to run on Axe rn though

[merry flint]

experimental hammer is memey

[bleak night]

I run Experimental Hammer by Fields 100% of the time when playing Revaal

[proven orbit]

Hammer on torch so that it gives you - 70% movement speed on channel one

[plain fossil]

Idk man sometimes u get full array that thing is run-ruining

[proven orbit]

#worth

[merry flint]

any way to force that hammer quickly?

only hammer left for prophecy

[plain fossil]

Just reset erebus a bunch

[proven orbit]

Not sure if skull hammers block each other so it might be just rng

Btw is it just me or skull omega attack is underwhelming? Full salvo probably kinda fixes that but that's 1 hammer (and antisynergy with mel currently)

[plain fossil]

I dont like skull omega attack i find it very slow

[proven orbit]

The damage isn't worth for how slow it is either

And seemingly bigger radius is hardly an upside when omega special already covers you on mobbing

[bleak night]

It's kinda bad unless you luck into one of the many hammers that make it better, but even then it still feels like a wip

When you get the right hammers, it feels amazing, but that won't always happen

[wise nest]

They should combine any two between the shotgun, rocket, and +2 shells hammers

[proven orbit]

Yeah, I guess that's how I feel about non-Pan twin blades special builds as well

[wise nest]

So we can get clockets again in 2 hammers

[bleak night]

We can get Guan Yu on Axe with 2 hammers

Guan Yu at home, that is

[wise nest]

Psychic + the advancing whirlwind one go brr

[wise nest]

true, it's missing the actual good part of guan yu (the special)

[low bear]

I hate advancing because I can't cancel out of it with a dash

[bleak night]

Hopefully they change that

[low bear]

it's killed me so many times against Chronos

yeah I hope they do

[wise nest]

Yeah, it's a pain

Just make psychic and advancing the same hammer🧠

That way we could have zeus shield at home

[low bear]

seems kinda OP to make them the same tbh

[wise nest]

Kinda but it's at least locked behind magic as a resource

The most busted stuff right now is momus/pan and those are the only things that really reach hades 1 levels of busted

[midnight gate]

Psychic should be its own hammer and advancing should let you move and dash normaly but not attack

[low bear]

I wonder what the other gods will bring to the table

[wise nest]

Advancing would be nice if you could at least still special

[low bear]

I'm kinda sad artemis best girl isn't part of the "main" gods anymore

[wise nest]

Also block flashing is super fun on axe, super funny to parry hits over and over

[wise nest]

She still has the same role but without actually being able to see her often anymore 😭 the pain

[proven orbit]

It's kind of compensated by the fact you can now have artemis without impacting your god combos. The real pain is how rarely you see her compared to hermes

[midnight gate]

Well now you get to see her more often

[proven orbit]

H1 artemis keepsake disagrees

[midnight gate]

You cant guarentee her though

[low bear]

kinda but she still feels pretty rare

she is the best of the time stopping chambers for sure though

Nem stop trying to take my lunch money or scaring away Echo fffffss

[proven orbit]

Can you even get her twice in the same run or she is explicitly one time event?

[low bear]

I don't think I've ever gotten her twice

[wise nest]

Only ever seen her once so yeah

[merry flint]

one time event

[proven orbit]

Big sad

[wise nest]

She's like Icarus/Thanatos

[merry flint]

you can only see her if you haven't seen her already

[low bear]

Nem ruined one of my runs keeping me from getting Coarse Grit on Demeter because she scared away Echo lol

[proven orbit]

Nemesis forcing me to skip resources lest I want the door to be stolen

[low bear]

oh yeah she stole one of my hammer rooms too because I had Frinos hypnotoad a shade

[wise nest]

Nemesis is an asspain because I'm at the point where she's warmer and nicer to Mel but she's still griefing my runs

"Get out there and get him"
THEN GET OUT OF MY WAY

[slate pecan]

Same thing happened to my brother lol

[low bear]

yeah I don't hate her as a character but from a gameplay perspective she griefs me so much

makes me miss Thanatos lol

[white steppe]

would be pretty funny if than stole your max health for failing the kill race

[wise nest]

Come to think of it why DID than ever show up in runs

Everyone down there is already dead, what is he doing

[low bear]

because he's tsun for Zag obviously

[wise nest]

I could've sworn early on he wasn't even trying to help Zag specifically, he was there for business

But what business, their asses are dead

[low bear]

he explicitly goes out of his way to help him despite being so busy, almost the opposite of Nem lol who is bored out of her mind and tries to get in Melinoe's way

[white steppe]

established hecate can just block places she doesnt want people going to
doesnt put up a ward after mel leaves for the night to stop nem

[low bear]

I feel like he just doesn't want to admit he's there specifically to help Zag

they are good friends after all

veeery good friends by the end lol

[wise nest]

"good friends"

Very is right 💀

Suggestion time: by the time you've reached the point where you'r spamming the oath/testaments and regularly clearing runs, they should make it so Hecate allows Nemesis out to cause more chaos in Chronos' ranks since Mel herself is able to keep beaeting him back (so there's not even less risk of him attacking the crossroads somehow)

Like early on it makes sense that even with it being impossible to find them, she'd still want nemesis around as insurance (and since she explicitly says nemesis would cause trouble otherwise)

[white steppe]

"My cousin's out fighting titans and what do I get? Guard duty."

[low bear]

it would be interesting to have a run where you are just travelling with Nem all throughout

[proven orbit]

I suppose it's because mel doesn't rat out nem and hecate doesn't give nem's strolls much attention other than disobeying the task

[low bear]

Nem isn't Melinoe's cousin isn't she?

[wise nest]

She isn't

[merry flint]

than is so nice

[wise nest]

Nem is a granddaughter of Chaos

Chaos -> Gaia -> Chronos -> Hades -> Mel

[merry flint]

he looks like edgeworth its very pleasing

[wise nest]

So Mel is Chaos' great-great granddaughter

[low bear]

I guess everyone is related to Chaos if you look at it like that

[white steppe]

I think they kinda skip gaia in this lore dont they

[wise nest]

Or great-great-great granddaughter at the same time since her mom is Persephone and that adds an extra step

[wise nest]

Nope. She's still mentioned in passing, and there's no reason to believe they changed the fact that she birthed the Titans

[low bear]

Chronos and Chaos also don't act like they're related so I feel like they don't really recognize the connection

[wise nest]

The only thing they changed is the daughters of Chronos (Hera/Hestia/Demeter) instead being daughters of Hyperion so the whole incest thing with Hades/Persephone and Hera/Zeus isn't a factor

(They changed Persephone's father to a mortal instead of Zeus as well)

[white steppe]

was it ever said why demeter banged some rando

[low bear]

Gods do it all the time so why not ig

[wise nest]

Yeah, but none of nyx's children really even mention the fact that their grandparent is chaos despite that being obvious. It's just not an important tie to them, same as with Chronos

[white steppe]

zeus does it cause he likes laying pipe but i dont think other gods just do it casually

[wise nest]

...

Who's gonna tell em

[merry flint]

she's been giving us seeds

[merry flint]

he was really good at sowing seeds

[low bear]

demeter got it on with farmer-kun obviously

[wise nest]

Yeah, there's a dialogue with Hecate where Mel worries that she's harvesting too much and mom goes "nah, gaia is willingly giving you her bounty"

[wise nest]

That mortal is part of the original hades/persephone myth too, dem hooks up with a mortal farmer while she's bereft of her daughter

[merry flint]

also getting mystery seeds in charon pools

[low bear]

farmer kun strikes again

[merry flint]

he was really good at farming

just top percentage farmer

[low bear]

also kinda mind blown that they just merged Chronos and Kronus because they sounded similar lol

[wise nest]

Based and timepilled

Chronos is frequently confused with, or perhaps consciously identified with, the Titan, Cronus, in antiquity, due to the similarity in names.[2] The identification became more widespread during the Renaissance, giving rise to the iconography of Father Time wielding the harvesting scythe.[3]

Even centuries ago they basically went "Yeah same thing"

[low bear]

man imagine if they just fused together all the famous Johns in the world

"close enuf"

[manic juniper]

Guys do i gain anything when i become nights champion ?

[bleak night]

statues ig, besides that not much else

[mystic bison]

Lmao finally got the Hermes legendary

[tall notch]

Cute gifts from Skelly

[proven orbit]

Bragging rights and ||buff mel||

[plain fossil]

alright, 24 practice run down with meme zero mana torches. This can definitely do 32 #h2-victory-boasting message

[tall notch]

That's how Eris sees Mel all the time btw

[proven orbit]

source?

[plain fossil]

although im starting to feel like it doesnt actually matter what buttons u click as long as coarse grit is active

[proven orbit]

It does not

I sent a living proof of that recently

775 damage chronos fight, still won

[plain fossil]

i mean that link i just put up is a run with zeus special on torches with 0 mana for omegas

[tall notch]

Have you seen the way she looks at Mel? She's clearly in love

[plain fossil]

which im pretty sure is indistinguishable from clicking random boons in terms of power lul

man i love torches

[tall notch]

Literally approval process 2

[proven orbit]

Well, that much is true but mel doesn't need to be buff for eris to look at her like that 😅

[plain fossil]

i mean ok i exaggerate theres heaps of worse builds, i could have played scorch

man scorch mel torches

theres the next meme

[proven orbit]

air fryer on torches real?

[plain fossil]

lets combine lack of hitstun with lack of damage and see how fast we die

[tall notch]

Air fryer on Eos is real if you're willing to put up with the rng

[bleak night]

WABS

[proven orbit]

Isn't base damage of non-channel like 15? so not having a damage boon would be a synergy with AQ

[plain fossil]

uh i mean yes technically lmao

[tall notch]

For air fryer Eos, you can start passion dash and play close range

[proven orbit]

I play without a core boon until tartarus sometimes, I'm certainly willing lmao

[tall notch]

Let passion dash carry early game. My first 40 fear clear was this but I only recorded Chronos so I couldn't submit it anywhere

[plain fossil]

i should probably finish upgrading this frog hey

[proven orbit]

Damn, can't even play moros because blast damage bonus means less AQ synergy

shaking my head

[plain fossil]

im not even sure ive ever seen him jump on something for damage

[proven orbit]

I saw frinos jump on charon someday

That was the only time I saw frinos jump on something

[tall notch]

I prefer it when he doesn't jump so that I can position around him more reliably

[mystic bison]

I got the cat fully upgraded and for Frinos only the jump damage isn't maxed and I've only done like 5 trials

[proven orbit]

I finished almost all trials and I barely got frinos to that state with toula lagging behind

cauldron cooking takes ungodly amount of time and still need more dust for the arcanas

[mystic bison]

Cauldron gives 2 treats for every stardust tho, 5 trials and some Narcissius pickups was enough for me

It irks me that the trials are recorded as full runs and failed ones at that, part of the reason why I haven't done them

[proven orbit]

Yeah it's not a question of scarcity for me, it's that I can only do 1 recipe per run

[bleak night]

just 15 runs of red

Well, I did 10 first and then the last 5 or 6

[proven orbit]

Think I already possess enough stardust to max out both companions

[tall notch]

Do baths skip time? You could hang out with Eris

[proven orbit]

Did that a few times

[mystic bison]

Baths, fishing and presumably tavern all skip time

[proven orbit]

Whenever I gift those time skipping activities I always make sure the 3 time gated activities are on (cauldron, delivery, plants)

[mystic bison]

They should all be usable whenever to consistently pass time without having to go on runs imo

[proven orbit]

Make Dora always go on such events so that there is a story implication of Dora teaching Melinoe to just chill out sometimes

[tall notch]

Isn't that what Eris is trying to do

[proven orbit]

Maybe

[tall notch]

Make her favourite princess relax a little

[proven orbit]

I reckon getting nuked for 90 damage from a shotgun is not a very relaxing activity however

[mystic bison]

The way things are now, if you want to be efficient you have to intentionally gate yourself out of NPC story progress until the stars align and you are waiting for incantations and Charon deliveries to speed them up

[proven orbit]

time gating is the scourge of gaming

angry noises

[somber flame]

Is it possible to avoid turning into a sheep during the Hecate fight? Like can you parry the spell at all?

[abstract glade]

Dodge through it, Or get your toad to block it

[proven orbit]

^

[somber flame]

Toad⁉️

[proven orbit]

frinos companion

[slate pecan]

You've asked for it

[somber flame]

Oh I guess I’m not at that yet,he’s just at the area when you respawn

[somber flame]

I try dashing away from it but it follows me,so your suppose to dash into it and past it is what your saying?

[proven orbit]

Yes

[abstract glade]

Yeah

It chases you for a while but you just keep dodging through

[proven orbit]

It will not hex you during iframes, and it takes a long enough time to turn around that you can dash through it again

[somber flame]

Oh ok that makes sense! I thought it was a mandatory part of the battle or something

[proven orbit]

Honestly, same

[somber flame]

Iframes?

[proven orbit]

invincibility frames

[somber flame]

Ohhh ok

[proven orbit]

just a term commonly used with dashes and dodges that let you not get hit momentarily

[somber flame]

Sorry idk any of the lingo LMAO

[proven orbit]

Ye it's all good, glad we could clear that up

[plain fossil]

u need to dash through it several times before it disappears btw

[somber flame]

I didn’t interact with the fandom for hades 1,I’m glad I can get caught up now bc hades 2 seems a lot more complicated

[somber flame]

Ohh makes sense!

[plain fossil]

like idk 5 or 6 with no speed boost on hecate

so be prepared lul
if u dont have frinos yet u can also kite the projectile into one of the spawning adds

[somber flame]

Any general tips for the scylla fight also? I’ve died to her like 5 times already

[plain fossil]

kill the drummer first

[spare kite]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1229078264811618305/1232527225191141539/Dodging_poly.mp4?ex=663a42ad&is=6638f12d&hm=49ef2e5f9a6bfa174d1d340e3aeff06c2fffb2854fd8451aae0a15dd59c1c14c&

[tame fern]

Wait, really? What does that do? Turn the add into a sheep?

[plain fossil]

yes

[tame fern]

Wow, does Hecate say something?

[spare kite]

Pretty sure that doesn't work?

[plain fossil]

she complains at u

[somber flame]

I don’t understand half of the abbreviations and stuff being used 😫💔 but thank you y’all

[plain fossil]

idr the dialogue but i dont think i heard it from blocking it with the frog a zillion times so i think its unique to that

[proven orbit]

I think it's only when hex naturally times out, yeah

[somber flame]

Oh yeah I’ve tried doing that kinda,I get stuck when they start to shoot projectiles down and stuff

[tame fern]

Take your time vs them, all of their attacks are pretty powerful individually but have long windows afterwards to punish, if you spend 10 seconds running around looking for an opening it's still worth it

[plain fossil]

u dont want to stick right on top of the drummer all the time but u do want to drop a cast on it so that u dont get charged by the guitarist

scylla doesnt do anything except the spinny blades that u can see coming 5 seconds in advance

if u die learning the fight its nearly always to drummer and sometimes to guitarist so pay attention to red circle patterns on the ground and dodge through it

[somber flame]

I think I usually get far enough but the spin blades get me bc I’m low on health by then

I do think I stick too close to the drummer and they all kinda swarm me lmao

[tame fern]

You can dash through the spin blades, or if Scylla starts doing that attack then just leave her and go attack someone else

[proven orbit]

it's been 50+ nights and my favorite hobby is still dashing from drummer's circle into next circle

[tame fern]

Same

[plain fossil]

generally just run away from scylla if spin blades are up dont try to get clever and dodge through them unless ur actually stuck in a corner

[slate pecan]

If you time it well you can dash from a circle into the same circle without taking DMG I think

[somber flame]

I’m maybe 12 nights in?? Do you ever get a thing that shows you how many runs you’ve done like the last game? I’d like to know

[plain fossil]

its not worth the damage

yea ur save file shows u even with nothing purchased and u also get a run summary ghost eventually

[proven orbit]

Yes, it's the fact that I dash into the next cycle so there is no dash up

[slate pecan]

Yeah happens to me as well

[plain fossil]

ye u can iframe the circles ofc u can iframe pretty much everything

[tame fern]

And yeah we know that the circles go in a pattern, either outwards or inwards, and that we can see the pattern happening long before it hits us, but we still dash into the next circle anyway

[somber flame]

Ohhh ok! I’ll have to check lol

[slate pecan]

The drummer is particularly fun because it's... Rhythmical

[mystic bison]

Numbskulls suck fr fr https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1242098453979598872/1245348790857371658/image.png?ex=66586cf1&is=66571b71&hm=1609c4496194fe6a7c376b25b955b604ced51825c9fe0b4661d5d0dc56ed541f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[somber flame]

I heard when you defeat one band member their part of the song turns off and I really want to hear that bc it seems really cool

[tame fern]

Speaking of which, if you're having trouble try getting more sprint speed, it's a big arena and running around is a perfectly fine strategy

[somber flame]

I’m having a particular difficult time with this game bc of the time it takes for sprinting and larger attacks

Like I like to move really fast and just spam stuff but the magic attacks take time and staying in place. Same with dashing kinda?

[slate pecan]

Dying is part of the learning process

[tame fern]

If you played H1, H2 is slower and more methodical by design

[slate pecan]

Do you use arcana 1 sorceress and swift runner?

Someone wise said H2 is more tactical

[somber flame]

Yeah exactly! I like it but it’s not exactly my play style

It could also be I’ve been playing a lot of bg3 and persona 5 and I’m use to turn based games now..

[slate pecan]

As for standing still I think in time you learn to recognize your threats and opprotunities

After even more time you learn to occasionally increase the amount of opportunities and decrease threats with quick planning

[somber flame]

I’m starting to use magic more so I think your right. It’s just a lot to get use to lol

[tame fern]

And then you have the games like Dark Souls and Monster Hunter where they're supposedly real-time action games but you have to think of them like turn-based anyway

[plain fossil]

why tf cant i replace selene with onion btw

[tame fern]

Yeah, that's the other thing, if you haven't been using cast then start spamming it, it's fast and easy

[celest swallow]

this game definitely also just has a lot more layers and systems to get used to how they all work together, when you want to just entirely ignore one attack/system/etc., and so on

for sure more of a learning curve than 1

[somber flame]

Also for hexes do you have to use all of that magic in one encounter to use them? Like it doesn’t seem to save when I go to another level

[slate pecan]

That'd be too op in comparison kek

[celest swallow]

yeah it's per encounter

[slate pecan]

Selene can't afford to be too much value

[somber flame]

That kinda messes me up bc I try to save it,also isn’t it just for when enemies are around?

[slate pecan]

Jokes aside though yeah I wish she would tank the onions 😩

[plain fossil]

yes, with the exception of moon water which u can use after the round is over assuming u used enough mana in the round

[tame fern]

Hexes are use it or lose it, if you're having difficulty then know that a lot of players generally dislike hexes and just avoid them as much as possible

[celest swallow]

most of them have path of stars upgrades to reduce the mana cost to activate, hermes has a boon that does the same, also the more useful ones tend to have lower mana costs to begin with (moon water in particular)

[somber flame]

Ok glad I’m not the only one

[celest swallow]

yeah, basically if i'm gonna be using magick a bunch and there's no better option and i don't wanna blow a reroll, i'll take hex/path of stars. otherwise i won't bother, especially on runs where i'm running at 0 magick the whole run

[somber flame]

I wish it was more like the big power (forgot the term lmao) that you could use in hades 1 with each god,yk? Hexes just feel too complicated and overwhelming imo

[mystic bison]

Calls are so awesome I miss them here

[slate pecan]

Hexes are such a cool concept, sad they don't deliver. They were called calls

[tame fern]

I dunno, I didn't like calls very much either, I felt like I always forgot to use them

[spare kite]

Hexes are certainly one of the boons of all time

[somber flame]

Yeah calls! I used them a bunch! Especially Demeter,I thought the hades one was a cool touch also

[spare kite]

Also big difference with calls
Hexes don't give iframes

[celest swallow]

calls were fine, though honestly once i could get the Hades keepsake i tended to just not bother with calls and just use that one for the damage boost in the last biome/fight lol

[somber flame]

I love Selene so much but it sucks that hexes are pretty much all she offers,and that calls don’t exist anymore

[celest swallow]

certainly more universally useful than hexes, but they also definitely had their stinkers

[plain fossil]

wolf howl gives iframes thats why its my favourite hex

[spare kite]

You just get murked if you activate anything that's not wolf howl/moon water

[tame fern]

Hmmmm.... wonder if Hades call will ever possibly come back

[plain fossil]

favourite hex in this case being equivalent to front of the short bus, to be clear

[celest swallow]

yeah wolf howl gives iframes, moon water can get upgrades to both make you impervious after use and boost your damage after use, so there's still some usefulness. for the others esp if they have high magick cost, it's nice to upgrade them with stuff revolving around buffing you when the hex isn't ready to use lol

[somber flame]

The only hex I’ve liked is moon water I think,the one that gives health

[celest swallow]

yeah that's universally considered the best

[tame fern]

The big moon drop has an upgrade to make you invincible for 4 seconds (until it falls) which is funny

[mystic bison]

I'd rather take multiple boons, hearts, mana or gold than multiple Selene rewards just to upgrade the Hex

[celest swallow]

yeah and a buff to drop three smaller AoEs in the leadup to the big one

[spare kite]

Phase shift is funny for the surface at least

[slate pecan]

I even liked total eclipse with the impervious upgrade, despite it's high Magicka cost. Used it on Mel torches though so it charged up quickly

[somber flame]

I’m wondering if they’ll change the hex system if a bunch of people don’t care for it. Like would it be too late to bring back a system like the calls?

[tame fern]

Basically it's possible to make a hex-based build which is really strong and a cornerstone for a victory but most players don't really lean there

[celest swallow]

they definitely won't entirely scrap hexes and bring back calls imo

they'll most likely tweak and buff the hexes to make them actually worth it instead

[tame fern]

I like the hexes, and not every system has to be likable and favorable, having things in the game that you dislike helps to accentuate the things that you do like

[mystic bison]

I'm sure they'll rework hexes heavily, one thing the majority of the playerbase can agree on is they suck

[tame fern]

Or, well I should say, I don't like the hexes but I like the reason why they are there

[slate pecan]

From my understanding calls were more of a Zagreus' thing, they wanted Mel to have her own. I think a hex well suits a witch thematically

[somber flame]

I overall like the concept of hexes and the fact that they are there but I wish that it was a bit simpler ig? I love Selene and just wished she offered something more my style 😫‼️

[mystic bison]

The Olympians are also helping Melinoe so narratively there is no reason for her not to be able to utilize calls

[somber flame]

That’s fair actually! Makes sense from a story standpoint

[somber flame]

But that also makes sense lmao

[slate pecan]

True but she's a different goddess than Zag, idk

[split igloo]

What are people running on medea?

[tame fern]

Narratively, the Olympians have a lot more of their own business to deal with than they did in H1

Aphro attack, Aphro special, Aphro gain, just simp your whole life for Aphro

[mystic bison]

So why give her boons at all then?

[celest swallow]

giving boons is probably less taxing vs. being available to answer to our beck and call on demand like they did for Zag

[mystic bison]

Listen I am not arguing here that they should be added in the game, but narratively there is no obstruction

[slate pecan]

They still see a potential there but can no longer pay attention to her every move maybe, idk

[somber flame]

So are this companions or something basically the same as the plushies (whatever the technical term is idk) from the last game?? Like you can use them once?

[tame fern]

Cause they're fighting a war on two fronts, they still want Mel to win but if they give her too much power then Olympus will get overrun

[slate pecan]

I agree, no obstruction, just a whim imo

A justified whim

[mystic bison]

That's not stated in the game

[celest swallow]

implications are a thing

[tame fern]

Yeah, the part about "giving her too much power" isn't stated

[mystic bison]

What is there to imply that they would overexert themselves by giving more powerful boons?

[glossy rivet]

does hitch only share weapon damage or can other sources like heph blast be added into hitch?

[slate pecan]

Seeing which god appear makes you the happiest? For me it's Hera for born gain lol and I used to hate her

[mystic bison]

Getting Hera in Erebus, the most satisfying feeling ever

[somber flame]

Where do we find shadows for the surface sigil btw? I’ve been wondering that

[celest swallow]

giving boons is basically a situation of "hey i have a free moment, here, send her this bit of power that she can use without my input"

giving calls is saying "hey, any time you want, you can basically summon me and i have to drop what i'm doing and attack your enemies for you," which is risky when they're actively at war

[tame fern]

Good question, I dunno, I feel like it would but I haven't tried

[tame fern]

You can make shadows with the cauldron, it takes 30 bone dust, 30 psyche, and 3 fate fabric and it'll take a while to cook

[celest swallow]

go to the crafting tab of the cauldron

[somber flame]

That’s true,it’s a war rn in h2 and h1 was basically just them passing the time in order to help a relative escape hades,they had nothing going on then

[somber flame]

Is bone dust different from bones? How do you get that?

[celest swallow]

it's ash, not bone dust

[tame fern]

I don't fully remember the name, it's the white stuff you use to unlock cards

Ah, my bad, ash